IFH 626: Creating Hocus Pocus: My Life in Horror and Nightmare Cinema with Mick Garris

I am extremely excited to have on the show today a fellow podcaster, established producer, director, and writer, Mick Garris. Mick’s podcast, Post Mortem with Mick Garris, dives deep into the devious minds of the greatest filmmakers and creators of your worst nightmares to bring their distinctive visions to life in fascinating one-on-one conversations. 

He’s renowned for his classic screen adaptation of Stephen King’s books like Sleepwalkers (1992), The Shinning and The Stand. and creator of 2005, Masters of Horror series.

The California native began his passion for storytelling as early as 12 years old – writing short stories. He launched his passion onto the journalism path at just 16 years old. Driven by curiosity, he freelanced as a film and music critic and landed interviews with the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Rod Serling, and Ray Bradbury in the 70s. 

It’s remarkable what Mick accomplished in a time where everyone needed to know someone to get a foot in the door, let alone that early in life and without the help of social media. I guess folks were intrigued by his talent and drive.

While doing film criticism, Mick wrote specs, publications for magazines, and did some filming on 8mm. The guy lived the dream. The hard work began to pay off. His agent, Rick Jaffa read some of his specs, believed in him, and introduced Mick to Steven Spielberg. Mick ended up writing the first episode of the Spielberg sci-fi series, Amazing Stories, and seven other episodes.

He’s credited for writing screenplays like Psycho IV: The Beginning, Fly II, and the She-Wolf of London series. He was also was an editor on Spielberg’s other project, *Batteries Not Included, in which aliens help a feisty old New York couple in their battle against the ruthless land developer who’s out to evict them.

Garris has written and directed a lot of other horror classics such as Halloween comedy favorite, Hocus Pocus. The film follows a villainous comedic trio of witches who are inadvertently resurrected by a teenage boy in Salem, Massachusetts, on Halloween night.

Garris and I talked about his incredibly difficult yet fun experience shooting his small budget directorial debut, feature sequel Critters 2. In the film, Eggs of the small but voracious alien creatures called Crites are left behind on earth and, after hatching, set their appetites on the small farm town of Grover’s Bend.

The man’s contribution to the horror genre has amazing. Can’t wait for you to catch up on my conversation with Mick Garris.

Alex Ferrari 0:15
I'd like to welcome to the show, Mick garris. How you doing, Mick?

Mick Garris 0:18
Great, Alex, thank you for having me.

Alex Ferrari 0:21
Thank you so much for coming on the show. Like I was telling you earlier, I was extremely excited that you agreed to do the show because you're you're your own established podcaster as well with with a great show. And you you've interviewed some giants in the business as well. So I was I was humbled that you said Yes, sir. So thank you so much.

Mick Garris 0:42
Well, I'm humbled that I'm able to work with some of my heroes. And it's a pretty exciting thing.

Alex Ferrari 0:48
Yeah, absolutely. So, um, let me ask you, how did you get started in the business?

Mick Garris 0:55
It's sort of a long story. But I had been writing since I was 12 years old, I wrote short stories and all that sort of thing. And, you know, I was born in LA so but no one in my family had any kind of connections to the entertainment business or anything. And so I started out as a journalist, and I interviewed people when I was like 16 years old, like Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin and stuff in music. That's about right, Bradbury was my first interview, and Rod Serling was my second. So so I was always able to meet my heroes and learn about them, you know, something that was always really important to me was my curiosity. So I was doing film criticism and interviews and writing screenplays on spec and trying to make a go of it. And I finally had some material that made for agents wanting to meet me and maybe work with me, because an agent only wants to represent you if they think they think that it's easy to sell you. If you are a marketable commodity, it doesn't matter how nice a person you are, or you know how well you play with others. But if they feel that they can make money off of you, it's great. So I went through a couple of agents who never really did me any good. And I was, you know, making my living working at Tower Records and that sort of thing. My first job was as a receptionist at George Lucas's Star Wars Corporation, during the first Star Wars. And I actually operated our two D two on the Oscars that year, but I was basically a receptionist. But it allowed me entree to the universal lot and looking at how people made movies seeing Alfred Hitchcock on the lot towards the end of his life. And finally, a an agent named Rick Jaffa, who is now a very successful screenwriter with his wife and partner, Amanda silver. He was an agent at William Morris. And he was the first guy who read my stuff believed in me and actually got my material in front of Steven Spielberg's company. So I was doing publicity. And I'd hire myself to do making of is because it was a lot more affordable than the studio would spend. And it would give me film school on how to take pieces of film and put them together into a narrative, even in a documentary or documentary format. So I did the making of Gremlins, I did the making of The Goonies. And the first, I had an interview show on the Z channel, which was the first pay TV channel in Los Angeles. So I would interview filmmakers, who made the films that were scheduled to come up on the Z channel schedule. And one of those filmmakers was Steven Spielberg. And after we did the show, I mean, I'm doing all the talking here, Alex, but

Alex Ferrari 4:07
don't quote me, please.

Mick Garris 4:09
But after the show, he said, You know, I really enjoyed that. And he doesn't. He didn't usually enjoy all the interviews that people normally ask all the same canned questions and all but there was a shared passion for movies from a similar background as my own. So when I was making the making of The Goonies, on the first day of shooting in Astoria, Oregon, I was setting up the camera man was setting up the lighting and stuff to interview Steven for the documentary. And he said, You must do a lot of these sorts of things. And I said, what nobody should ever say to Steven Spielberg was I'm trying to do less because I'm trying to make a go of it as a screenwriter.

Alex Ferrari 4:56
What I really want to do is direct Steven, right? Yeah.

Mick Garris 4:59
Well I would never say something like that today, however, then he said, Oh, really we're looking for writers for this new show I'm doing called amazing stories. So it turned out, my agent had gotten amblin, a spec script of mine called uncle Willie, that is still never been made. But I got to read the coverage that they did in the last three words of the coverage were higher this man. So Stephen called me and asked me to, to write the first episode of amazing stories that was ever written. And I wrote it in three days. I mean, it was like a call from Steven Spielberg. And I'd

Alex Ferrari 5:42
love to do it. And by the way, for everyone listening, it's Steven Spielberg at circa what 8485.

Mick Garris 5:48
This was in 1985 85. So

Alex Ferrari 5:51
it's post, et and everything else he did prior to that. So he's already Steven Spielberg. He's been Steven Spielberg for quite some time. So it's like, basically, a god coming down from Mount Olympus and touching you on the shoulder and go, you now shall right.

Mick Garris 6:06
So yeah, I mean, we get a phone call. And I pick it up and Steven Spielberg calling from Mackerras and I'm looking at my wife and our little crackerbox house in the valley. And then they asked me to adapt, write a screenplay based on one of his two paragraph story ideas for amazing stories. And I knocked it out in three days. And they read it and asked me to do another one. And then a day and a half into it. I'm only halfway through. And he and Kathy Kennedy called me to ask me if I would go on staff as the story editor. And I had never done anything like this before. And so suddenly, I'm in $100,000, a year job back in 1985. Oh, and I was, I was on food stamps, when I got the job, also. So it's a convoluted story, but that's how I got my first writing job.

Alex Ferrari 7:04
So and again, not a bad first job. And no as, as first jobs go, not too shabby, not too shabby. So, which, by the way, which were you I mean, I loved. I was obsessed with amazing stories when it came out. I watched. I mean, my favorite one. I still remember to this day. I mean, obviously the Kevin Costner one was fantastic, which we think was the first episode, wasn't it? Steven directed that one.

Mick Garris 7:29
It was the second season the first episode,

Alex Ferrari 7:33
that one and I remember the train. I think Stevens did the train. Both of those. Yeah, right. I remember those two. But my favorite amazing story besides when Santa's got arrested, which was fantastic. Was the episode where the kid had the goo that you poured it on a picture and the picture came to life and right he was like a horny college kid. And he just was trying to get this girl on and you would get half a girl or too big of a girl and right. It was like trying to get it perfectly. Whoever kissed the girl first it was it was theirs forever. It was it was just obviously because was such a dream for any adolescents. And adults, obviously. And I love the ending of that. I'll never forget it. Sorry, spoiler alert for everybody. But it just spills onto Fangoria magazine or something like that. And it just fades to black. It was like, Oh, that's amazing. But I remember that show. So well. I guess I mean, that experience. I mean, it must have listened starting at that level must have. I didn't say Jay, did you what you understood later on that it's not all like that, like that was kind of like the red carpet.

Mick Garris 8:42
Right. But I was also 33 years old when it happened. So I had been writing for years and years and years. Like I said, since I was 12 years old is when I first seriously started writing. And so I've never gotten jaded about it, you know, the excitement of being able to do what you dream of doing. A lot of people get spoiled by it, and expect their lives to continue to be at the top of the heap. I'm always concerned that I'm gonna fuck it up. And you know it every time especially directing every time I I do it, I feel like it's my first time out and that I've got a lot to prove and, and being contemporary and being aware of the technology of filmmaking as it as it metamorphosis sizes. But as far as writing goes, writing has always been I'm a rather fast style writer, in that it comes easily to me and I love it. And I'm just lucky to have been born with a facility for writing and, and I I'm good with language and stories come to me quickly. I mean When I'm writing on spec, which is almost all the writing I do, I just sit down on page one, I don't do an outline or anything, I have an idea. And then I just plow into it and let the tributaries take me where as they will.

Alex Ferrari 10:14
But when you say that, and I've heard other various other screenwriters say the same thing, but do you agree that, you know first for screenwriters just starting out? You're able to do that, because you've been writing forever. So the structure and the you already almost instinctively know how to structure the story in a screenplay from stage one when you don't have the outline? But from somebody who's just starting out, would structuring them outline makes sense?

Mick Garris 10:41
Well, I think it depends on the writer, every writer works differently. And for me, I started out that way. Because I'd been writing but not writing screenwriting, I've been writing short stories in the leg for a while. But I've always watched movies and television my whole life. And I think that there's an intuition that grows within you, as you consume. Screen storytelling. So when you're writing on assignment, you have to do those steps, you do a treatment, and then you do an outline, and then you do a draft. And then because every step of the way, you're going to get interference from the studio executives, from the director, if you're not the director, and all of those sorts of things. So every way is valid for me. I used to think Wouldn't it be great if I took six months to write a script, think how good it would be. And for me, if I took six months to write a script, that means I'm having trouble and it's, it's labor, it's not, it's not coming out, like the magic, it's not storytelling, it's a job. And so I am lucky to be able to write quickly and and Lee and fairly simply, but, again, on the jobs where it's an assignment, then you have to take each step at a time. And then it's never your own unfiltered storytelling, you know, you're going through the hands of a lot of other people.

Alex Ferrari 12:12
Now, do you start with plot or with character, like when you sit down? Are you Do you already have a plot in your head? Or are you starting with the characters like, let's see where this guy or this gals adventure goes?

Mick Garris 12:23
Well, it's kind of half and half, I'll usually start with a character. And of course, every character you write, I tend to write my fiction, even I write books as well. A lot of my fiction is written in the first in the first person, and when you're writing a screenplay, every character is the first person. So they're always some facet of who the writer is, or who he or she imagines he is, or would like to be. It's, it's just a matter of empathy. And usually, I'll have an idea of a character who is some what thwarted in his life, whether it's romantically or ambitions. You know, there's there's a roadblock, and that roadblock is part of what the story is. And then I'll take a combination of who that character is and why his his quest is not an easy one.

Alex Ferrari 13:21
Now, when you said earlier that you you know, you shot a lot of making of documentaries of films, like the thing in Goonies and yeah, is it Gremlins as well? Yeah, so you're on the set with, you know, a Rogue's gallery of some of the most amazing directors of their generations. What were some of the biggest lessons you learned from just just being there and watching their process day in because as I'm making up, you're there every day shooting? What's going on?

Mick Garris 13:54
If you're lucky with the budgets we had, I was there for a couple of days or a few days out of the production schedule. But surprisingly, the thing I learned most is how much of the movie is directed off the set the conversations with the production designer with a dp with the actors, all of those things, you're really seeing almost the finished product when you are on the set and watching them work. That said, watching how a director elicits a performance from an actor. You know, the lighting is already been planned out. The shots in general have been planned out depending on what the director style is. But the job of a director is to communicate. And a writer doesn't have to be very communicative. They're very different disciplines. A writer is monastic and own and mystic in a way, where as a director is confronted with being a social animal, he has to be able to To communicate, not only communicate what the overall movie is, so that each department head and each actor isn't making a different movie choice, but to be able to instill enthusiasm and confidence and excitement that they're doing something special, and to be encouraging people, whether they're cast or crew to do their best work, because they're going to make something really special together. And, you know, there are directors who are directors because they enjoy being autocratic. They like to be the boss, and they like to throw their weight around. Nobody's going to do their best work for somebody who yells at them. You get their best work by being a teammate and somebody who encourages the best ideas from every department, even if it's craft services. Somebody from craft Services has a good idea. I'll take it, you know?

Alex Ferrari 15:54
Yeah, absolutely. Not you, you. Your first Is this your first feature or one of your first features that you wrote? was called Batteries not included? Which Yeah, I have an absurd absurd love for because I remember it. I remembered it and everyone listening, please forgive me back in my video store days. When I was there, renting it out and recommending it to people. And it was a Steven Spielberg produced film. I remember you also co wrote that with a another. He's done okay for himself, Brad Bird, as well. Yeah. So how was it like coming up with that it was very cute, just adorable. It's just like an adorable.

Mick Garris 16:34
Well, it's, it's what Spielberg was known for in the day. So that story was originally an amazing stories episode called Gramps and Grammy and company. The idea was Stevens, he wrote out a paragraph or two. And then I wrote a screenplay for the TV show. And then he changed his mind and said, I think this idea is big enough for a feature film. So I wrote the feature film script, I wrote two or three drafts. And And then, when Steven brought in Matthew Robins to direct Matthew Robins brought in Brad Bird with whom he had written before. In fact, the first script I wrote for amazing stories was the magnet kid. And Matthew Robins directed that and he brought in Brad Bird. So I didn't write with Matthew or Brad. As you know, when it's a writing team, there's an ampersand between your names. And if you're writing and rewriting somebody, there's an and between your names. And I've been lucky enough to be the first writer on virtually every movie that I'm a screenwriter and not a director on. So yeah, it was very much Stephens idea. And Matthew Robins had co written Stephens first movie, the Sugar Land Express. And so he felt very, very beholden to him and gave Matthew an opportunity to do a big Hollywood studio picture, which worked out really well for him. But yeah, it started and ended with Steven Spielberg,

Alex Ferrari 18:15
as it as it always does. I mean, I've had the pleasure of speaking to some amazing filmmakers and writers on this show. And I cannot and I say this all the time, I cannot believe the the the Spielberg touch, he has touched so many careers, of filmmakers. I had john Lee Hancock on I had Kevin Reynolds on and they were telling me something like I had no idea that that that Spielberg was the one that kind of crack the door open for them. And he's, he's done that for so so many people around this, this business. It's, it's remarkable a truly truly is.

Mick Garris 18:57
It's kind of what he wanted to do with amazing stories. Yes. Get Martin Scorsese, and Clint Eastwood and you know, mucky muck directors. But he also gave first time opportunities to people like me, and Todd Holland, and Leslie linka glatter. And Kevin Reynolds, you know, directed one of the episodes. So, he really wanted it to be kind of a flower box for for new blooming directors and, and it was an opportunity you don't often get,

Alex Ferrari 19:30
yeah, and he's just, it just never ceases to amaze me the influence that that Stephen has had on on Hollywood history, not only for himself, but the opportunities he's given to so many people along the way. It's been pretty remarkable. I have to say that you're I think it was your first directorial film, critters too. Now, the time was classic, the time is close. So obviously, there were questions left over from critters, one that needed to be addressed. In a sequel, obviously,

Mick Garris 20:01
it was an absolutely necessary sequel that the world could not have lived without, until it came out. And opening night I went to my local theater in Universal City, and there were three people in the audience.

Alex Ferrari 20:15
So, how did you I mean, listen, I remember I remember critters do I remember critters? It was obviously after after Gremlins, so it was kind of like write a spin off of Gremlins. And there was to be charitable, it was a spin off, it's actually to be but to be fair, to be fair, there was one that was even a little bit more ghoulies was even actually a little little less, less connected to the original

Mick Garris 20:42
material. That's for sure. There's spooky there's ghoulies there's all kinds of little creature movies out there

Alex Ferrari 20:49
after Gremlins. Yeah, but so it was what it was your first shot directing really wasn't it?

Mick Garris 20:54
Well, I directed an episode of amazing stories, right. And before that, I directed, wrote and directed a Disney TV movie, which was my very first a one hour movie called fuzz bucket. That was a story that Steven rejected for amazing store.

Alex Ferrari 21:11
Fair enough. So well, kritis was, but that was, but it was a sequel. It was, you know, it was had a decent budget, if I remember,

Mick Garris 21:19
well, you know, for what we were doing. Your original critters was much better than anybody expected it to be. It was a $2 million movie, which, for a little indie, little creature movie was not insubstantial. And it was mildly successful at the box office, but made most of its money on home video. And so they decided, Well, time for critters to. And I think the reason I was hired, and Bob Shea, who was the head of new wine, gave me the opportunity to do this for four, which I will always be indebted. But David to he had written a script. And he was very happy where it was Bob Shea felt that it needed more. And rather than just hire another writer, the idea was to hire a writer, or director. So it would be a much easier game to to actually have the shooting script done by the director. And I believe that because kritters was very spielbergian in it's in the first movie and even more so in the second that they wanted an associate of Steven Spielberg, so maybe some of his pixie dust would rub off on the project. And because stylistically, you know, I absolutely was influenced by Steven Spielberg and Joe Dante in the making of critters to and by Warner Brothers cartoons and all those things. But the idea of Norman Rockwell goes to hell is something that fits very, very well into the Spielberg canon. And I think that's what they were looking for at New Line. You know, it was a PG 13. It wasn't an R rated horror movie. And, you know, we got away with one naked lady and some some critter violence that wasn't too incendiary. But yeah, it was an opportunity to be both writer and director. And it was on a scale that I thought was so manageable. However, it was special effects, kids, animals. You know, they had a

Alex Ferrari 23:30
trifecta.

Mick Garris 23:31
Yeah, action scenes, all this on a $4 million budget. And with that $4 million, we built the town, we did all kinds of amazing things. So we got a lot of bang for the buck. But, you know, Gremlins was made for $10 million. And Gremlins two was made for $60 million. So

Alex Ferrari 23:52
$60 million of Gremlins two cost. I think so I think that's a lot for that time period. That's it.

Mick Garris 24:00
It definitely is. But it came well after the first one. So

Alex Ferrari 24:04
yeah. Wow, that's remarkable. Now after krytus, two, you jumped on to another sequel, writing from from another successful another successful first film the fly, which is arguably a you know, classic at this point. And I would say so yeah. I love that film with a passion. Oh, God. And I mean, Jeff Goldblum in that kind of made Jeff Goldblum like that. And, I mean, Jeff had been acting for a while but that's I mean, I remember when that came out. Everybody was talking about the fly was like in his Cronenberg in you know, in his element of is fantastic. Now you pick then, of course, you get dawn, the daunting task of writing the sequel to a very successful loved film. How did you write Roche writing a sequel to such a hit

Mick Garris 24:50
very differently than what you see in the movie that that has, that was made. You know, I was the first writer on that and I came up with an idea I wanted it to be as respectable as the Cronenberg film. I Cronenberg is a friend, I love his work to death, and the depth and intelligence and humanity of that movie was something you rarely get any genre film, especially a monster movie, which, when you come down to it, it's that's what it is. But it's so much more than that. It's a romance. It's an impossible romance, which is a theme I really like and return to time and again, in my own work, fiction and film work. But so my idea was something quite different. It had to do with giving the baby up for adoption, because you know, she was going to have an abortion. But the original idea was that it would be an evangelistic group that takes the baby from her, as they do with other young mothers who don't want to abort, give it a good Christian household, but they are training it and all these other children in the way that in the Soviet Union in Russia and the 30s, they did lots of experiments where they would exercise children, mentally and physically to be far beyond the powers of mortal men and women. They would develop their psychic abilities, they would give them Olympic Training from from toddlerhood on, so that they would become superheroes, basically in reality. And, you know, I wanted it to be a Christian army sort of thing. So it was a really interesting, adult kind of attitude. But the head of the studio, wanted a teenage monster movie. First, Scott Rudin was our our production executive. And he's great and has gone on to produce a bunch of really high end movies for the Coen Brothers for lots of other people, has run into some metoo issues in the last year or two. But there was a change in management and wondered Goldberg, who was half of spelling Goldberg, the people who made The Love Boat and other TV shows, letter, Goldberg was named the head of the film studio, which was very controversial at the time, because he'd only done television and not features. And when a Goldberg wanted a teenage monster movie, so there was a lot of infighting between Scott Rudin and Leonard Goldberg. And I was, you know, in the middle, and trying to accommodate both masters and the opportunity, the author of critters two came to me. And so I had to leave had to leave the project to fly to which was in the middle of all those problems. Then Frank Darabont inherited all of those problems. Frank Darabont was the second writer and then Jim and Ken wheat, who had done it young Indiana Jones and some other things. They were the final writers on it. So it changed quite a bit from where I was and where it ended up.

Alex Ferrari 28:11
And Frank and also Frank did okay, as well, I think he's done. All right. He's done it. He's done. He's done. I think he's done a couple other things. I'm not sure what but he's done wonderful. things as well. Now, another film that you directed, which you didn't write, but you directed, and arguably was one of my favorite films. Growing up in the horror genre was sleepwalkers, I absolutely adored sleep walkers. And not just because it was it was just a cool, I must have been I was in high school, probably when that came out. So I'm dating myself, but I was probably around high school time when that came out. And I had the largest crush in the world on match anomic I mean, you're not alone. It wasn't just me, I'm sure. But I mean, holy cow. She was amazing. I just adored her, and then forgot the lead actress named who's also in the palace, Krieger. Yes, it was also a Blue Lagoon and charmed and Brian Crowe. Brian. Yes. broadcast. Thank you. Let's return to the Blue Lagoon. Yes, return to the blue the good. And then he went on to charmed and all that now it's kriega from ghost story. Yes, exactly. It's, it was remarkable. But you wrote an A you directed an original screenplay by Mr. Stephen King. Not too shabby. A writer himself. And he doesn't. I don't think he does. He I think this is one of the this was an original screenplay that had nothing to do with original material. So it was an

Mick Garris 29:42
original, his first original screenplay to be produced. Correct. And what was the slide? Oh, yeah. Well, I never met him until I screened it for him afterwards, but we would talk on the phone. And he was incredible. I mean, we've since become very good friends that have worked together a lot. And I'm lucky enough to have had four projects that he wrote the screenplays for himself. sleepwalkers was the first one. It was also my first studio movie as a director, and really my only studio movie as a director, feature film, all of the other stuff I've done has either been television or independent. And then after that, I mean, we got along so great. And he was so happy with how sleepwalkers turned out. And the battles that we had to fight together, that he asked me to do the stand the next year. And I had only done movies of a relatively small scale. And then along comes the stand, which is 100 shooting days, six states 126 speaking roles. I mean, always on the road. Just Yeah, massive and and that experience was also my first experience with an unmitigated success. sleepwalkers opened as number one in the movie theaters in America that year, that week, but dropped out very quickly. The stand became the highest rated miniseries ever. The four nights it ran, it was number 123 and four that week, but each of the nights went up. It was 50 million people watched it in North America each night. But it went up each of those four nights, which is very rare. And, you know, it was it was incredible to have made something first of all with Stephen King. But secondly, that cast I mean, Gary Sinise and Ruby Dee and Ossie Davis and Matt frewer. And Rob Lowe, and, you know, so many people, but also to go into a supermarket and hear people talking about it the next day. You know, see, it's not something that happens very often. And you know, nothing I've done ever reached the heights of what the stand did. Well, except Hocus Pocus.

Alex Ferrari 32:08
Yeah, well, we'll get we'll get to Hocus Pocus on Reddit,

Mick Garris 32:11
which was actually written eight years before it was made. Right. My draft Anyway, there are 11 other people on it after me. But we'll get to that. But to to have your work talked about when nobody knows that I was the guy who directed it. And I'm standing in a supermarket line listening to people talking about how much they enjoyed it is an experience that is so odd and wonderful and thrilling.

Alex Ferrari 32:40
Yeah, I mean it. When I have guests on the show who have had obscene success, and a project, I always ask them what it's like to be in the, in the center of the hurricane when it comes into that kind of stuff. And for you it was the stand. And you know, 50 million plus people watching your work in the night in the 90s on television. Yeah, is something it is a major deal within the Zeitgeist. It was in the Zeitgeist wasn't it?

Mick Garris 33:10
It was and still is, you know, people still talk about it with the remake having just been done last year. It's amazing. And yet, because it happened on television, probably more people saw it than anybody saw any movie in the theater, but it's television. It's immediate, and then it's gone. It comes back on home video, but it's gone. So Spielberg wanted King and myself to do a movie with him together that King wrote called Rose Red, which became a mini series later when King and Spielberg couldn't agree on the direction it went. There was an 800 pound gorilla on each side. It was about

the size two juggernauts the 50 pound champion the wearing a banana suit, yes.

So, you know, because it didn't happen in a theatrical film. It's not the same as being in the eye of a hurricane. If your movie is in theaters and number one week after week after week, there it's a totally different thing. Plus, it's not the director, especially in television who is brought attention to and in this case, Stephen King not only produced it, but he wrote the screenplay himself. And so I've always been under the wing of either Steven Spielberg or Stephen King or any other Steve's you can think of but, but which is fine, but it doesn't bring attention to the person who is not the famous person on board. And, you know, I'm happy to be a guy behind the camera anyway. But, but career moves, you know, the this Rose Red project never happened. So I Didn't direct for another three years after having directed this massive success. So

Alex Ferrari 35:05
insane, that's insane. But to be fair, you know, being under the wing of either Stephen King or Steven Spielberg, not again, not a bad place to be in,

Mick Garris 35:13
I wouldn't change it for anything. luckiest guy I can imagine.

Alex Ferrari 35:18
It is it is pretty remarkable. And I know so many people are trying to break into it's like larceny, we're trying to break into the business. It's always like, I had a hacky, and I got a break, and I gotta get through the back door. Like it's, it's always something along those lines. Talking, and I'm sure you've come across this to talking to the people you've had on your show is things that happen a lot of times, it's just the right place, right time, kind of its right place. right time. There's, and all you could do is prepare you were waiting for 33 when when Steven showed up, and but you would have been preparing for that moment. All your life, essentially, yeah,

Mick Garris 35:55
it's not only right place and right time, but it's also the ability to deliver what people were looking for. And to be a person that people want to work with. Again, you know, if I were a producer, looking for a screenwriter, and I had some egomaniac pitching me in my office and telling me how to do things in the white, I no matter how good the story is, I don't know that I'd want to go through that process. But, you know, it's it's the ability to deliver to, you know, I was very lucky in that. At the time, I was confronted with Steven Spielberg, and I'm interviewing him on location for The Goonies, they were looking for something that I was capable of delivering, and that they saw, at the same time, my agent had sent to his people, a spec script to read. And so while I'm in Astoria, Oregon, while Steven Spielberg is in a story, Oregon, someone in Universal City is typing up coverage, saying they should hire this guy that he just spent time with. And, you know, the timing could not have been more fortuitous. And the good news was, there was material to back it up. That didn't come from me, but came from his development, people saying, take a look at this guy, we you should hire him. And I happened to be in front of him the day before he got.

Alex Ferrari 37:23
Now would you agree? You know, you've been in this business a long time. I've been in it over 25 plus years, you know, hacking away as well. I've dealt with people, the best advice I could give anybody trying to get into this business is don't be a dick. And I think that I think that is a mantra that a lot of filmmakers and screenwriters don't understand and you are a personification of it. Because it was because of you being so you know, you're able to work and connect with people like Steven, that he hired you again and hired you again. If you were if you were a dick, and that first that first pilot that you were writing the first episode you were writing at Kathy Kennedy and Stephen would have called you up like, do you want to be a story editor? And if that experience wouldn't have gone? Well, there's no batteries not included in your career could have gone on a completely different trajectory. Just by being obviously you have that talent and being able to provide the service that you said, you can write that nice is really something that a lot of screenwriters don't they underestimate how important because would you as a as a filmmaker and a producer, work with someone who might be slightly less talented or experienced, but wonderful to work with, as opposed to a much more superior writer, but just a complete ass? Well, no, I'd probably write it myself. But it's a general.

Mick Garris 38:47
Yeah, but no, that's probably true. I mean, I'd much rather write with somebody being if it's for me to direct. I'm going to write the last draft anyway. Sure. But yeah, you want to work with people who you respect their talents and their abilities, as well as being able to sit in a room and bounce ideas back and forth and have a good time doing it. You know, everything about making movies is incredibly difficult. And so the more fun you can have doing it, often it reflects now, it is often said that the hardest movies to make are the ones that come out the best. And that's not really true. And you can feel the camaraderie of of when a creative group is clicking with one another. But another thing about about screenwriting, is that spelling matters. It is literary, you know, it's, yes, it's a blueprint. And the the extreme example of that is Walter Hill shooting script for alien, which is just so spare and sparse and all but also, if you're writing a screenplay. You're not just laying down a blueprint. And first of all, you're not telling a director how to direct his shots. You know, that's not part of the job. But you are engaging the reader in the same way you would engage the reader of a novel, you want the descriptions, not only to just be guy goes in store sneezes, buys a box of Kleenex, you know, you, you want to embroider it with language that compels you. And it's not just strictly a schematic, which a lot of people feel it is. So being able to write well, writing fiction is a really good practice for writing screenplays, too, you know, Stephen King, you want to turn every page because he engages you, the humanity of his prose, the, you know, he writes very sparsely. But it is woven in such a way that it compels you to turn the page. And a screenplay needs to do that, too. It doesn't. It's not there just for an actor to mark in yellow marker, his dialogue, and not read the descriptions scenes in the scene in between. But those descriptions have to be compelling, they have to be interesting, and they can't just be nothing is harder for meter action movie script, where you're describing lots of action scenes in detail. I can't do it, I can't get through it. But, you know, anything that draws the reader in, whether it's fiction, or or screenwriting is the most important thing, you know, if, if, if writing had never been invented, if a camera came first, no one would have ever invented the written word. To take it down to, to cast it into history. But we have developed an ability to tell stories in engaging ways and the use of words. And grammar matters if I'm reading a script, and the first five pages have 42 typos and your and your are used improperly and things like that, I feel like I'm reading someone who is an amateur. And you want something that is more compelling than that.

Alex Ferrari 42:27
And also I have heard it referred to as the sea of white, you want that page to be a sea of white as much as you can be yet. But yet, especially in the descriptions, and I've said this many times on the show, I equate it to being a haiku, you got to really get a lot of information in with very sparse words. But you have to make it interesting for the reader, the shooting script could become something else. But the actual script that a reader reads a producer reads as a direct reads has to be that kind of thing that pops, but you can't, you can't spend

Mick Garris 43:00
it by, okay, go ahead and give you a description but make it captivating. You know, make it funny, make it really propulsive, you know, and I tend to fully capitalize important words in a script, whether it's introducing a new character or not, you know, I will make sure that you don't miss those important words they stick out.

Alex Ferrari 43:22
Right? It's it's, you don't have the luxury of writing a page on how that tissue feels. Right? where a lot of I've read a lot of scripts that do that, that the writer just like sits there and like, it's a 240 page script. Okay. You know, it's it's though,

Mick Garris 43:40
I'll tell you a story about Batteries not included. This, I felt my life was on the line. This was the biggest opportunity anybody had given me write a feature for universal and amblin and Steven Spielberg. My first draft was 140 pages. And beefy. Yeah, very. So I turned it in Ohio. It was a while before I heard back from Stephen. And then, you know, he called me into the office and I'm being dead honest here in painful ways. But he said, You know, it took me three sittings to read this script. And that's not a good thing. So but that was the best thing anybody could have said to me, and he did it. Because he wanted me to learn. He wasn't criticizing me. But he was telling me I'd fucked up. And so I took it to heart and I took it home. And I worked on it. I worked on brevity and I tightened it up and made it much better brought it in at 110 pages, and it got the green light. So I had learned my lesson, and it's a lesson that has stuck with me ever since.

Alex Ferrari 44:54
Now, you also worked with Stephen King, on the shining mini series, which is has a lot of being the shining. movie adaptations have a lot of lore behind it because of Stanley Kubrick's version and, and Steven, Mr. King finally came out and said, I despise it. I hate what he did with it. And I think that just two different things. I mean, Steve Stanley just did what he wanted with the material. Well, Kubrick did a Kubrick film and right not a king film,

Mick Garris 45:25
not a kenotic King film. And there's a big difference between them as artists. Kubrick is very cool. And King is very warm. The writing is all about the humanity. But also it's a very personal book to King. When he wrote it. He was a drinking alcoholic. And it was all about alcoholism and the guilt he felt for actually hurting his child breaking an arm of the character of jack Torrance, his child in a drunken rage. And so here he is recounting something that's personal to him. I I'm sure he never broke one of his son's arms. But, but he knew that there was a boiler that was gonna blow inside of jack Torrance, because he'd been in that boiler too. And so Kubrick turned it into something very chilly and very Other than that, and it became an iconic horror movie. But it was not a good adaptation of a Stephen King book. And that novel is one of my favorite novels of all time. And the good news was that Stephen King himself what after the success of the stand, ABC said to King, what do you want to do next? Anything you were all there? And he said, you know, I'd kind of like to do the shining like the book. And he wrote the script himself. And it's one of the best scripts I've ever read and certainly ever had my hands. And so because we had done so well with the stand together, and become friends on that, he trusted me with this three years later. And we were able to do something really special with that, too.

Alex Ferrari 47:03
Yeah, it was, it was remarkable. I love watching both versions and seeing the distinct differences between between your version and Stanley's version. And they live as different pieces of art in different ways. There's no glare on the same shelf in the video store. If we may go back to kids or kids just Google video store, you'll see it Yes. Very, very cool. Now, there was a there's a project or a film that you wrote that I don't think you thought and please correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't think you would think it would have the legs that has has had, nor the the love that has come from it. It was just Hocus Pocus. It's become this classic Hollywood Halloween film, but it's a Halloween family film. It which is pretty,

Mick Garris 47:57
which is pretty amazing to hit the you know, it was not particularly successful. Whatever came out, it was a very mild success, right. But over time, and it really started with the Disney Channel. They started running it on Halloween, and then ABC started doing it. And every year it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And people keep asking about a sequel and all that that's finally about to start production, right. And the merchandise. It's the biggest Halloween movie in history.

Alex Ferrari 48:31
And bigger even bigger than Halloween.

Mick Garris 48:34
Yeah, I would have guessed. You know, on, on Halloween day on free form, they show it back to back 12 times on that day. And every day of the month of October they show it

Alex Ferrari 48:47
and my children finally just watched it. They're not there. They're young. They're young girls. And we watched it on Disney plus, because it came on Disney plus and we watched it and I hadn't seen it probably since the video store days. It's just I see clips in it, but I hadn't seen and I said they're like what is so much fun. It's just like a fun and like, Oh my god, they're making a sequel and they're all coming back. Oh my god.

Mick Garris 49:11
Yeah, great. Well, and it's it's again, I was hired to do that because I was working with Steven Spielberg at the time. And the producer, David Kirschner who came up with the idea designed all the characters and everything had just done an American tale for Spielberg and amblin. So it was to Spielberg guys getting together with, you know what Disney wanted. And at first, Steven was interested in being a part of it, that it was like, oh, with Disney. Now we're going after the same audience and they were very competitive at that time. So it was almost a collaboration with with Spielberg, Disney and sorry, my gardener is

Alex Ferrari 49:55
it's all good. It's all good. It's all good.

Mick Garris 49:57
It's not to me, but that's it. Thank you But, yeah, it's amazing to hit with something that you go out on Halloween night and you see children dressed as Billy butchers and the Sanderson sisters, and they carry their big book, you know, the book of spells. And it's like, I helped create that thing. You know, this thing exists partly because of me. And it. It's really humbling.

Alex Ferrari 50:28
Yeah, it's something that just lives on and on and on. And you've, you know, you've been a part of things that that have shelf life, I think Hocus Pocus arguably, is the is the thing that holds like it's just hold, it's been going on and on and on, and on and on.

Mick Garris 50:43
Absolutely, absolutely. in it. You know, I have had the fortune of having worked on things that were not successful initially, that became either cold favorites are much more successful in their afterlife than in their first lives, you know, critters to shows in theaters and festivals every Easter and on television and stuff. It's one of the few Easter horror movies and you don't see critters one revived, you see critters to revive. And psycho for was only on Showtime when it came out. And you know, it was written by the same guy who wrote psycho one. And, you know, it has developed a love and the stand. Huge, and it still maintains its its power and to be able to create something. Popular culture is very much of its moment. It's not meant to last forever. But fortunately, I've been involved in some projects that have had a very long shelf life and a shelf life that continues to grow. And so maybe it's better to have flops, that becomes

Alex Ferrari 52:00
I mean, the residual payments become better later, I guess.

Mick Garris 52:03
Yeah, I wish. You know how residuals work. They shrink every time.

Alex Ferrari 52:08
I know. But is it like Seinfeld? Where you get a penny? You get 1000 checks that are petty? Yes. Yeah. And the stamps are more. Yeah, that's something that a lot of a lot of writers think that. I think and I'd love to hear what you think about it, because I think things have changed so much over the last 10 years is you mean before I mean, I've known a lot of people in the gills and that get those residual checks. And they do get smaller every year. And but then it boosts up when a new new release comes out. Like oh, it just hit HBO. Okay, great, Greg, okay, just a video. But in nowadays, with streaming and everything, it's not what it was once before. So I think a lot of young writers coming into like, Oh, I gotta get that sweet, residual residual money. Like we're gonna live in the life like Seinfeld and friends. And I'm like, I don't think that even exists anymore. I think that's that, that kind of residual, like, I mean, for instance, those guys, oh,

Mick Garris 53:05
yeah. pay TV and theatrical and that sort of thing. And network television broadcast, cable television, those residuals live on. But in streaming, you know, Netflix doesn't pay residuals, even for their original programming. So you got to make a big deal upfront. But I don't know what I would do if I were a new filmmaker starting out, because there are movies made by filmmakers you would know and films you've seen, and that you know, that you like, that are familiar, where those filmmakers can't make a living off of what they get paid to make them for. You know, it's in the world of streaming, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. You know, who knows, from a little thumbnail on amazon prime, if it's good, or if it's not, and, you know, Netflix will produce movies that they don't promote, and just say, let's see what happens, see if they hit. Or they'll make something like birdbox, which connects in a big way. But the residual thing, you know, if you want to write or make movies, you have to do it out of a passion, and out of a true desire to to be a creative force. Because if you do it to make money, you're in the wrong business. Anybody who sets out to make money making movies is in it for the wrong reason, and they're not gonna make it

Alex Ferrari 54:33
right. What's that saying? How do you how do you become a millionaire in in the film business? Start with a billion. Yeah. It's, it's, it's so true. And I've had so many so many filmmakers over the years come to me like Well, yeah, you know, I'm gonna make this money and that money I'm like, honey, Sir, this is you. You are so in the wrong you know? Like, do you want to Do you run into this? I mean, I'm sure you've spoken to screenwriters coming up screenwriters and filmmakers over the years? Do you see a lot of that a lot, I call it a lottery ticket mentality where they think the next movie is gonna give them you know that they're going to get Steven Spielberg's eye, and he's gonna come down and do all this stuff, or it's going to hit Sundance, or it's gonna get me an agent that's going to give me a million dollar on my next spec, or do you see that mentality in people you want to,

Mick Garris 55:24
there's still enough of that happening, that it's, it's, it's worth, you know, don't give up a dream if your head if you've been pounding your head against the wall for 20 years and have never sold a screenplay, chances are good, that it may not happen. But then it might, you know, I've just reworked a movie that I wrote, I wrote a screenplay 30 years ago, called Jimmy miracle. And I've always thought it was the best movie idea I ever had. And Spielberg loved it at the time. But it wasn't a movie whose time had come. And it's a period picture takes place during the Depression. And so I thought, maybe I'll write it as a novel. And I rewrite it now and then. But I came up with an idea on how to completely revamp it. And keep all of the elements that made it exciting to me, but gave it new elements that made it even more exciting to me. And almost immediately it's been optioned, and we're taking it out to the studios next week. So you know, it's, you got to keep at it as long as you can stand. But if it's been 20 years, and you haven't been able to do it, then do it. Not, you know, don't live at your mom's house, mowing lawns in the hopes that you're going to make it as a screenwriter, if it hasn't happened for 20 years, go ahead and get your job as a lawyer, you know, finish school and, and do that. But, you know, a lot of times I wrote more when I was working a day job than I do working full time as a writer and filmmaker. But it's something it doesn't cost you anything to be a writer. And you know, it's a great hobby, regardless of whether things get made or not. I've written a lot of spec scripts that have never been made, or optioned. And that's just part of the game. But I get to be a better writer each time I do it.

Alex Ferrari 57:30
Now, there's one other project I wanted to talk to you about, which is I generally don't bring up short films on this on this show. But I mean, you worked on ghost. It was a famous short film, starring the late you're not that well. I mean, quote unquote, short work, starring the late great Michael Jackson. And your collaborator was also the late great Stan Winston. And and Stephen King. And oh, that's right. Stephen King was involved with that as well. So I mean, talk about a trifecta of icons, each of them an icon and you're working. What was it like collaborating with, with Michael Jackson, Steven and, and Stan on this, and the show for which I remember was not released in the States. While we're a long time. Yeah.

Mick Garris 58:24
I think it premiered on Halloween, like, two years after it had been made.

Alex Ferrari 58:29
Because I wanted to watch it. Yeah.

Mick Garris 58:32
It was an incredibly troubled production for a number of reasons, including the obvious ones. But Michael went to Stephen King, he said, I want to make the scariest movie ever because he had so much enjoyed making thriller in which I am a zombie, by the way, oh, I mean, what you should

Alex Ferrari 58:49
have led with that make

Mick Garris 58:52
very delete. But so I was shooting the stand at the time. And King had written a draft for Michael. And he'd recommended me as the director to Michael. And so I met with Michael and we hit it off great. He was very sweet. And so we started production and we shot for two weeks. It was originally going to be the end title song for family Addams Family Values. And once we were shooting, we shot for two weeks and never got to the musical number yet when you work with Michael, you worked on Michael time and it didn't have much to do with a 24 hour clock or even a 30 day calendar. So, you know he was great and hard working but it was really slow and two weeks into the shoot. Michael didn't show up the next day. And suddenly we started hearing about this scandal that had happened that none of us believed because Has anybody who'd worked with him could not believe that this was going on. And, to this day, I don't know what the truth of his of it is. My only experiences with Michael were really good ones, we became friends. But, you know, if he did what it said he had done, it's the worst thing in the world. And if he didn't, it's also the worst thing in the world. But he disappeared. And it turned out he was in Thailand. And then we were going to finish it in Japan and my line producer went to Japan and shipped all of the sets we'd been working on to Japan. And then they were shipped back it, it didn't happen for three years. And then Michael said, Okay, I'm ready. We're gonna do it now. Make it's gonna be great. It's

Unknown Speaker 1:00:48
gonna be fantastic.

Mick Garris 1:00:50
And it's been a very good, very good impression, Bella. Thank you. But I was already scheduled to do the shining with Stephen King next. And so I said, Michael, I can't just keep putting this off. I have a hard start date. And you don't. So I, I think you should talk to Stan Winston, they were friends. Stan is a very was a very good director. He had done pumpkin head at that time. And so I said, you guys are friends. He's doing the special effects. Anyway. You should ask him and he he did. And so I had shot two weeks worth of stuff. Including a lot of the visual effects stuff that stands company did digital domain Stan and Jim Cameron's company. And so Stan took it over and it was great. It was everything but the kitchen sink. It was a 35 minute movie that was originally going to be a seven minute music video at most a 15 minute video, but you know Michael ended up paying for the whole thing ended up costing $15 million the most expensive music video in history. And it was a blast but I would love to seen it through from beginning to end but that just though I wouldn't have been able to do the shining

Alex Ferrari 1:02:12
and I'll tell you I had the pleasure of going to stand studio visiting Stan studio while he was still alive and I didn't get to meet Stan but I got to go they took me through the entire studio and that that board room. Oh my god that boardroom for everyone listening the boardroom had the Terminator the predator an alien every like Tom Cruise's. Let's start from Interview

Mick Garris 1:02:36
with the Vampire all that Christopher Lloyd holding his head. Yeah. Facing stories episode.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:42
That's right. All of that stuff was it was two stories. I remember to two floors of all these things looking down on you. Oh my god. How cool is it to have meetings in here? Lucky, lucky people. Yes, absolutely. Now I'm gonna ask you a few questions. I asked all of my guests. What are three screenplays every every screenwriter should read

Mick Garris 1:03:05
every screenwriter should read well alien to see just how concise it can be. Anything by Preston Sturges to see just what what dialogue can be at its best. And you know, Billy Wilder in an eye all diamond as Sunset Boulevard is a great example. Now, none of those are contemporary. You know, I think some of the Tarantino's writing is amazing. He's not the best speller.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:34
But when you turn to you know, it's it's okay.

Mick Garris 1:03:37
It doesn't matter. Because his dialogue and everything is so great and the ideas are big. And, you know, most people will say, don't write a dialogue pay scene longer than four or five pages. He can give you 15 Great, great pages of dialogue. And he savor every word.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:58
You're in like Inglorious Basterds. I'd like that scene in the in the basement with all the Nazis that that was like 20 minutes. Amazing. 20 or 30 minutes of the movie was just that scene. It's it is it is truly, truly remarkable. Do you appreciate just as as a viewer and as a filmmaker, people and filmmakers and screenwriters who take the swings at bat? They might not always connect, but they take the big swings.

Mick Garris 1:04:25
Absolutely. You know, I think Jordan Peele doing get out was great. And then when he did us, he took bigger swings. They didn't connect as much. But it was great to see him make the attempt to do go beyond what he's already done. And yeah, I mean, obviously my favorite films are where it works in every level. But I love creative. There's is a couple of filmmakers named Aaron Morehead and Justin Benson, who write and direct their own movies and they take big fantastical swings, and they more often than not connect. And it's, it's really fun to see adventurous movies. And, you know, I'm not a fan of franchise movies, particularly within the horror genre. It's a, you know, I want to see somebody, I want to see the next David Cronenberg, you know, somebody whose films are so iconic clastic that they couldn't be made by anybody else.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:28
Right. Exactly. And, I mean, and carpenter, obviously with how that Yeah. And and Well, I mean, the list of things that john has done. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Now, what advice would you give a screenwriter trying to break into the business today?

Mick Garris 1:05:45
Write, and write and write and write, and the you need to be represented. But you need to write something that's not just good, but reflects a personality that nobody else has. It needs to be something an agent's taking home 30 scripts every weekend. And most of those scripts, he's not going to get further than five or 10 pages. And you need to galvanize your reader, and make that reader excited that he's reading a movie that not only is really great, but is something he feels an audience will come to see that he's not looking for an art film, although there are great commercial art films, you know, you're talking about a medium that costs millions of dollars to do it, right. And you're not just masturbating with a camera, we're doing something for an audience, not for yourself. Now, please yourself first, and please the audience as well. But if you imbue your writing with your own personality in a personality that stands out from all others, and makes your script, even if it's audacious, even if they don't buy the script, they look at it and go, this is a writer we should meet with who might be right for such and such a project. So it's just do the best that you can in the most original way that you can to differentiate yourself from the other 29.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:13
And then it is it is true that and I think a lot of screenwriters and filmmakers don't understand this is that they need to understand what their secret sauce is. and lean into that secret sauce. Don't try to be Tarantino cuz you're never gonna be Tarantino he's already Tarantino, right? You're never gonna be we really have a Nolan. We already have a carpenter, you can be inspired by them. But you have so but you have to be you have to have that secret sauce. And that's the only thing in the marketplace that nobody else has. Right?

Mick Garris 1:07:42
Yeah, I mean, your main your main target, is to get them to want to keep turning the page. Make your scripts readable.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:56
Excellent, excellent advice. Now, what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film industry or in life?

Mick Garris 1:08:04
Well, in life, I think there are still lessons I haven't completely learned. But as far as the film industry goes, I mean, it's always going to be up and down. You can do something huge, like the stand and not work again for three years. You know, same. It's, it's every bit as hard. The second, third, fourth and fifth time out is the first time maybe the wheels have been greased a bit in that people know who you are or know your work. But you have to keep proving yourself and you can't rest on your laurels because those were out real quick.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:43
And finally, three of your favorite films of all time. Okay. Dead Ringers. Oh, great. Cronenberg. Yes. Great writer Frankenstein. Yes. And Raiders. avastar. nice combination. That's a good that's a good movie night. That is a good movie night. They'd have nothing in common. Yeah. Now, where can people find watch your show and then consume your content, sir.

Mick Garris 1:09:15
Okay, my podcast post mortem with Mick garris is on Apple podcasts and every other podcast app around. We interview do interviews every other week. And on the alternating weeks, we do post mortem ama where you can ask Nick anything, and we solicit questions. I'm on Facebook at post mortem with Mick garris Mick garris pm on Instagram and on Twitter. And we'll keep things alive that way all the time. You'll know what's coming and when we're asking for questions from the audience, and all that stuff.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:50
And I will put that all in the show notes. Mick, thank you so much for taking the time for the show and dropping your knowledge bombs on My tribe today so I appreciate

Mick Garris 1:10:02
All right, always a pleasure. Thank you

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IFH 625: Indie Film Hustle Success Story – American Murderer with Matthew Gentile

Matthew Gentile is an award-winning filmmaker based in Los Angeles.

He most recently wrote and directed his first feature, AMERICAN MURDERER: a true-crime drama about a charismatic conman who became the FBI’s most unlikely and elusive top ten fugitive. Photographed in Utah during the height of the pandemic, AMERICAN MURDERER stars Tom Pelphrey, Ryan Phillippe, Idina Menzel, Jacki Weaver, Shantel Vansanten, Paul Schneider, Moises Arias, and Kevin Corrigan. Traveling Picture Show Company produced the film with Gigi Films, Productivity Media Inc, and Radiant Films International.

AMERICAN MURDERER opens in select theaters on October 21st and becomes available on streaming on October 28th.
And that for more information, they can follow me on Instagram @matthewlgentile or go to my website: www.matthewgentiledirector.com

A graduate of the directing program at the AFI Conservatory, Matthew’s thesis films FRONTMAN (which won 12 awards including the Student Emmy for Best Directing), and LAWMAN played over 100 festivals worldwide.

A Brooklyn native, Matthew holds a BA in English & Film Studies from Connecticut College and an MFA in Directing from the American Film Institute.

Please enjoy my conversation with Matthew Gentile.

Matthew Gentile 0:00
Every actor is different. They all have a different language. And you know, your job as a director is kind of figure that out, right? Not necessarily trying to figure them out and pinpoint them. Okay, no, you know, but figure out how they work what they need.

Alex Ferrari 0:13
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book, Rise of the Filmtrepreneur how to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com. I'd like to welcome to the show Matthew Gentile. How you doing Matthew?

Matthew Gentile 0:27
Great, how are you?

Alex Ferrari 0:29
I'm doing good, man. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Man. You, you wrote me an impassioned email to, you know, to come on the show. And, and, you know, tell everybody, first of all that how you found me and what, what the show is done for you. Because I always love kind of sharing those stories with the audience.

Matthew Gentile 0:45
Yeah, well, you know, as we were saying, I found the show in 2020 and COVID. You know, I was in a phase where I just want to listen to as many podcasts as I could with all the time we have in our hands. And this one rang red straight to the top of my list, because I saw your episode with my mentor and dear friend, Judith Weston. And I thought you just did an incredible job interviewing her about her process, and how she works with directors and actors. And you know, Judith is such an important person to be in for so many filmmakers have benefited from her wisdom. I just had a consultation with her recently for my next film. And, you know, she, of course, just blew my mind and pushed me and she's, she's just so she's such a deep thinker about film. And I thought your interview did a really great job getting to the heart of it. And I've seen filmmaker friends of mine, you know, Film School alums, like Chloe Okuno, and Max Barbic, who I went to AFI film school with, I've seen them do great interviews with you promoting your film and promoting their films. And I just think what you really specialize in is getting to the core of, you know, indie films, how we make them, how do we get them out there? But like you said, you know, you're you Britain, cut through the delusions about the film industry, I think you're there just real conversations with filmmakers. I feel like when I listen to your podcast, and like having coffee, with the person you're interviewing, you know, I'm a fan. And, you know, as I'm doing the press rounds through this movie, I thought I gotta get on that one. I have a few on my lesson. Like, I want to get on that one on that one. So I'm glad you were so receptive, and had me on Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 2:21
I appreciate it. Man, I appreciate I try to, we try to break through the delusion of most filmmakers, because most filmmakers are delusional I was, I'm sure you weren't? Sure. There has to be a sense of delusion. I think to get into the business, you have to be delusional. To stay in the business, you kind of have to be kind of delusional there is this level of delusion for us to even do or try to do what we're doing because it's insane. In sane to get a movie off the ground shot film, and then when you're exhausted, then you got to find distribution. And then hopefully, you'll get a check. And hopefully, someone will give you another job again, it's just this. So you, there has to be a healthy amount of delusion, but a healthy amount, not a unhealthy amount, which is what I generally run into, was I was extremely unhealthy with my delusion for quite some time for a long, long time. So that's why I can speak about it so clearly. So Matt, so first question, Brother, how and why did you want to get into this insanity that is the film industry?

Matthew Gentile 3:25
Well, the story I typically tell is when I was 12 years old, my father showed me Doctor afternoon. She's 12 years old.

Alex Ferrari 3:35
It was it was the 80s It was the 80s kids, it was it was 80s or 90s.

Matthew Gentile 3:41
It was early 2000's.

Alex Ferrari 3:43
All right. So yeah,

Matthew Gentile 3:45
I think I'm in my 20s. But I'm 32. So the Yeah, I saw talk to everyone. I was 12 in the early aughts. And you know, it was a film that just completely blew my mind. You know, to the point where my father showed it to me, I kind of said, Hey, I don't want I want that. Give me more of that. And you know, that led to godfather. Films I grew up loving. But so I that movie really spoke to me, you know, set in Brooklyn where I grew up. I'm from Brooklyn, New York. And when I saw the film, you know, I was so captured by Al Pacino and his performance. Just really, I felt sympathy for him. Even though he was going around the bank putting the gun in people's faces. I felt so much like when he finally gets caught that last shot of the movie, when he's it's all on his face, and just everything about spoke. I mean, I was you know, I was into theater as a kid, I was into film, you know, so I was into the arts, you know, and so acting was something that was going on my mind writing stories was on my mind. So I had a creative energy within me like, you know, but I didn't know where to necessarily put her whatnot. But finally, one day, I was still age 12. My mom and I grew up in New York City. We're walking down the street You and they used to sell at these on the streets it I don't know where you're from but New York, from New York. Well, yeah. So they used to sell these stuff on the streets dance, they would have scripts like that were printed.

Alex Ferrari 5:12
Oh, when I went back in the early to the 2000s. I saw that in front of like NYU and like they have like, yeah, Fight Club and like the bootleg bootleg scripts basically

Matthew Gentile 5:24
Exactly. Like they printed off like Drew scriptor, Rama and like, put a cover with the like, Yes.

Alex Ferrari 5:34
Put the poster like but it was black and white version.

Matthew Gentile 5:37
Or like, yeah, or some generic still from the film. Like I think dog afternoon. It was the picture of like him holding the woman holding Silvia outside the bank. So I saw this script on the streets. I was like, Oh, they had only scripts and I saw a job do you afternoon I was crying. And my mom sees that. And so she bought me the screenplay for $10 is a Hanukkah present. And I took the screenplay, I read it. And I had a VHS and I watched the movie. And I read the script. I watched the film. And that was the first time I saw in my own life that like oh my god, words on a page could become images on a screen. And I was just really fascinated by that. And I love the screenplay architecture. Fred Pearson who wrote the script was you know, one of my favorite writers Cool Hand Luke I saw shortly after that also became one of my all time favorites. I know right Phil things in the movie said that Paul Newman and cool I look was the reason he became an actor. So you know, I think there's there's a lot of you know, these movies and Frank Pearson was incredible screenwriter. And he actually was also the artistic director of AFI. But he passed right before I started as a student. So, you know, dogs, it was kind of that one movie. And then there was another film watching experience that really kicked me out the door. senior year of high school, my English teacher showed a cure curse I was robbed. In a King Lear class. And it was a class just it was actually a class was interesting. CG was cool. He did a class that was called King Lear to end it. So same effects end game and King Lear, and about existentialism and all that when you're 17 you're on your journey English is so mind blowing. And I loved King Lear as a play. But the Phil Ron just shook the box. And it's funny because when I saw it, we saw it in like segments, because it's high school. So they show you like 30 minutes. That's a long movie. So it took like four weeks to watch run, but I couldn't get anywhere. So I was like, I really want to finish run like so badly. But seeing Ron and more than that reading about the process of how Kurosawa made that film. You know how he was 75 years old, and he was going blind. And he was his wife, who had been with his whole life and career had just passed away. And he mourned for two days and then went back to filming how he built castles and blew them up, like for real, and the costumes and the extras and, and I just thought the madness of this was so interesting to me. And I just you know, he quickly became my favorite director of all time still is I have a Seven Samurai poster on my apartment. You know, I just love Carissa Moore. You know, I love a lot of great directors, but he's my, that's my all time spirit animal.

Alex Ferrari 8:16
I will tell you that the I own two autographs. One of them is Akira Kurosawa know what I have when we get off. I'll grab that it's sitting over there. I'll grab it. I'll show it to you and the other ones George Lucas. Which I got on a on a Star Wars lunchbox

Matthew Gentile 8:31
Personally, that says disciple. Yes. At the world premiere of this film, American murder hybrid premiered at the Toronto Film Fest in Sicily. And Francis Ford Coppola was there showing the Godfather night before my film screened. And I got to meet him and I. And I asked him about Kurosawa and like his stories, and they were great. He's talking about how they would like go to the steakhouse and talk for hours. And I asked Coppola. He asked me what my favorite Kurosawa film was. And I said, Ron, and he said back Oh, my bad sleep. Well, it's like, of course, I know that. You stole the cake scene. Whether they stole the shots or not. But he then Coble asked me, he was going Okay, so you've seen this one. And then basically, he goes for me like, yeah, of course, I'll be I think 30 feature films, total, something like that. So he basically goes about 12. I've seen them all. And then he gets to one I haven't. I'm liking what's called Looking after, but it was really funny. He stumped me finally, and I was like, do I lie and tell him I've seen it, or do I just tell the truth and I told the truth. But it's a fairly light hearted comedy one that he did. I mean, he just made so many incredible films and masterpieces. And, you know, I think Coppola's famous quote was like most filmmakers make one or two masterpieces you know, carousel only made eight to 10. Like it's, you know, it's an ending Made them across such a and I know a lot of filmmakers have cited him like Florence Carson said, you know, comparison of Shakespeare or the Beatles, you know, and yeah, he's just an incredible.

Alex Ferrari 10:09
Yeah, it's like him and Kubrick for me. It's, of course, I want to Kubrick. They may you know, masterpieces like they just come in and they just do what they do. But it's pretty remarkable now on your on your filmmaking path. Based on your IMDB, which I was looking at you did a good amount of shorts. You made a good amount of short films before you even got to AFI. Is that Is that correct?

Matthew Gentile 10:36
Yeah, you know, I did I, you know, my film path was, you know, I in high school, I made like, think like one or two with my brother, actually, who did the score for the film. He's a class my brother's a classical pianist and conductor. Sure. And this was his first film score actually did an incredible job. He just won an award yesterday

Alex Ferrari 10:55
And the price and I'm assuming the price was right. I'm assuming the price was right back then. Was that the price was right for hiring your brother.

Matthew Gentile 11:02
Oh, yeah. He was very unexpected. He's still we're both expensive. But yeah, the price was right. So he was Yeah, but we, we wrote You know, we were kind of like the Gentile brothers in high school, we made a couple of movies and what I don't know if those are an IMDB they might be. Obviously IMDb keeps everything on there. But I know a lot of people try to get stuff erased from them, and they never do it. So they aren't they aren't extensive, or exhaustive. But I made a couple of films in high school. You know, I in college, I did a liberal arts degree, I went to Connecticut College. I majored in English and film studies. But it was a semester abroad where I went to the family film school in Prague, which I'm sure someone else but as I've talked about before, a lot of filmmakers kind of seem to have come through that. And that was my first time experiencing film conservatory. And I made a short film that I adapted from a Hemingway story called got in the ring. That, um, you know, that was my first time making film. I was like, oh, you know, this is it. It's, you know, writing and directing is what I want to do. Like, for sure, you know, it's kind of always there in the background, you know, but like, I remember being in high school, I was like, really obsessed with acting like that was like my passion. And as a teacher kind of say to me, great drama teacher, who was a good actor himself and had worked and, you know, was teaching in between jobs. And he worked with me a lot. And I kind of asked him, I was like, Do you have what it takes to be an actor and he looked at me and he was like, one of the truth like, maybe, but I think your director or scream, he assaulted me. And I was really great. At the time, I was pissed at him. So I want to say it was gonna be the next you know, Marlon Brando. Retrospective like what a great teacher because he really told me the truth and, you know, pushed me to where he could sense the passion for the arts, but he saw was being used in the wrong place. And so so you know, but around Yeah, junior year of college, that was one of my when I did that semester abroad in Prague at the family film school, that was kind of like, I would say, my point of no return to use screenwriting terms. You know, after that, I was like, I'm gonna go, be a director, whatever it takes. And then, yeah,

Alex Ferrari 13:06
So so when you're on your journey, now, I'm assuming you're getting paid left and right, you're making tons of cash as a director, right, just tons and tons and tons of cash all the way through.

Matthew Gentile 13:16
I don't know what to do with all of it.

Alex Ferrari 13:18
I mean, it was just, it was kind of like, it was kind of like Pablo Escobar, you were like burying it in the back. That was just so much guys. Over the years, you know, because it looked like from when you started to when you finally got your first American American murderer is your first feature, correct? Yes. So from the point of view, getting your first feature done, you did a whole bunch of short films. I assume you weren't getting paid for these short films. You weren't making a tremendous amount of money. So this is the thing I love asking filmmakers, because so many of us listening right now are going through this. How did you keep going? How did you wake up in the morning going? Am I on the right path? Because this is we're talking about better part of a decade. And yes, you're at school and you're and you're, you know, you're AFI in Prague, I get that part of it. And you're when you're surrounded by that the delusion continues. Because you're surrounded by filmmakers and film teachers, and you're learning and you're just like, Yeah, but at a certain point, you have to go, you know, how many no more? I'm assuming you had a few nodes along the way, as well. So how did you so what what tips what how?

Matthew Gentile 14:28
Well, yeah, I definitely talked about the path because you know, when I, you know, when I graduated college and decide, okay, I want to be a filmmaker. It's like, great, who doesn't? You know, who doesn't want to be a director screenwriter, so you know, or act, right? Yeah. And so, my parents my first job in the industry, I actually, I mean, I had a lot of internships throughout college, but I actually worked at William Morris Endeavor in the mailroom. And then I became an assistant there. And with one week's paycheck, which at the time, I think was $670 I made a short film for that amount of money. And that's the film that got me into AFI, which is not a cheap film school to go to as well I know is not. And, you know, so I went to AFI and was very felt very lucky to be there. It was, I think the youngest director, there are one of them at least, because AFI tends to skew older in terms of the applicants to graduate school, not an undergrad. And, you know, but at such a talented class. Like I said, Max Barbra Cal was my class. Chloe Hakuna was the year before me was director Akasha Stevenson, who just booked the Omen film and has been doing TV for five years was my classmate. So I had a really, I think, I hope we become a what was in the water that your class because there are so many talented directors who I think, you know, we're gonna graduate now six, seven years ago. And I think there's a lot of them are going to come out and blow people's minds. So it was, it was quite a class, it was a matter they weren't talented, to the point where it scared me that these these people were good. And so but you know, you graduate film school, and in my case, I was quite lucky. My short my thesis short. Well, what's cool about AFI actually is your first year you make three but they call cycle films, where you make really cheap, and you you know, like the the, they make, like $5,000 budgets, right, and you like, you go out and shoot them in a weekend and you come back at them, and then you screen them for your peers, and they go to and on stage and bellick My first press conference for American murder and Terminator which went very well only reminded me of it just from the physical act of walking up on stage to be like to talk to or ask questions. But in the case of backpass narrative workshop, you specifically go up on stage, I know a lot of filmmakers have talked about how it just made them, you know, throw up on the waist, or whatnot. But it was, it was really great. Honestly, though, because it really prepares you for the industry. Because, you know, when you do a test screening of a movie after that, nothing really fazes you. But um, you know, it was it was it was incredible opportunity. But so, you know, you graduate film school, and in my case, you know, my first three films I made that year, were not overly exceptional. My third one was my best so I was getting better. But then you make a thesis film your second year, and for me my thesis film frontman, which was probably at this point, like short film, six or seven in the game. That one really opened a lot of doors while the student me got a lot festival traction. And I had the opportunity actually, I was paid to do one short, but very little money by AFI to come back and direct law man, because the director of the year below man dropped out and left the team and so they needed a director. So they paid me like a TA salary. And I was able to do that. And that was actually my first technical, you know, directing for hire job. It didn't feel like that since I was extremely passionate about. But that was the first time I think I got paid to direct. And you know, when I graduated film school, I kind of was in a bit of an awkward place. So I was like, I was like, you know, do I, you know, I was an assistant before I was like, well do I go try to be an assistant to a director again, and I had some kind of almost there. And I think that's a totally valid path that I know a lot of people have done, but what I was sensing was I kind of needed to embrace the indie film, hustle and the entrepreneurial way of, you know, you know, support myself get through this work but like don't work for someone you know, like an alias director because you're going to be working for them 17 hours day or no time to work on your own stuff. And because I was having traction with my thumbs, I was like, I need to work towards getting my first feature paid. And so you know, I did when I graduate I'm gonna do all kinds of gigs from you know, I did reality TV under a fake name. I did like these awful like cooking.

Alex Ferrari 18:45
Allan Smoothie?

Matthew Gentile 18:47
Something like, Sean, something. Um, but you know, yeah, and I did whatever I could, you know, to like keep keep the lights on like really cheap a rumble, I didn't know what write my scripts, and then I'd be like, oh, I need to go do another gig. But finally, what actually ended up sustaining me through my years up to American murderer was script reading. I was I was qualified for that, because I had worked at William Morris. And that became the easiest and most sustainable way for me to, you know, work consistently and be able to write my own scripts, and, you know, have the flexibility to be able to stop finding too or, you know, binge down. I read a bunch but and it also was for me script dream was my screen read school, you know, AFI was my directing school and script reading for I can't say the sites right now. Because, you know, they like anonymity, but, you know, think big screenwriting competitions or, you know, sites like that. And, you know, they were my screenwriting school, they really allow they gave me a way to support myself. So that book without them, I don't think I would not be here because I came here to support myself as I became a professional writer, and director. And so the path towards getting American work or made, you know, a year or two out of AFI. I thought I thought I was hardship because my film wildcards and then I realized after five seconds, nobody gives a shit anymore.

Alex Ferrari 20:14
You know, they didn't just walk up and go, How much money did you need?

Matthew Gentile 20:18
Yeah, do you think you're good? Because you want to know more? Oh my god, and then no one cares. And they're because they asked you the first thing you do when you make, you know, anything decent, as they say, what's your next thing? You know, what's your next three things?

Alex Ferrari 20:30
Let alone the next?

Matthew Gentile 20:31
What's your next? Exactly. It's a what's next business as we know. And so, you know, I was kind of in between a call er, because again, I think, if I can give some advice, which I don't know, if you should listen to but you know it, you know, when you leave film school, I think a lot of people have different visions of like, what they're, or even if you don't go to film school, because, you know, there probably are more great filmmakers that didn't go to film school that did, arguably, who knows. But um, you know, whatever it is, when you decide to build a career for yourself, you know, like, I don't know, I think everyone's vision of their own career probably changed at some point along the way.

Alex Ferrari 21:07
Every single Yeah,

Matthew Gentile 21:09
Like, because I never set out to be necessarily Mr. True Crime filmmaker, you know, now, American murder, I could say, and one thing I'm very proud of, is it is 100% A movie I wanted to make. It's not a film. I was like, hired to do. I mean, I wasn't contracts, I guess. It's terms with the contracts. But I but I did. It was a film that came from inside very personal, very deep rooted not, you know, but, but we know that it's very hard to get movies made. And, you know, everyone has to figure out how to work in the business and how to make films how to get financing for them. And it's a constant struggle on crime.

Alex Ferrari 21:44
So how so that was my next question. How did you get American murder American murderer off the ground, because you have a really great cast? You know, I won't ask you the budget, but it looks good. It doesn't look like you made it for five grand. So like for five grand? Five grand, we sold it for 50. And I'm done. And

Matthew Gentile 22:06
You've never heard of

Alex Ferrari 22:07
Exact the highest sale ever for, that you've never heard about. I saw I signed nondisclosure. I can't even talk about it. But how did you get this? I know you did a short film version of it. And that I'm assuming, because that's, that's a myth as well, that so many filmmakers, I'm going to make a short film version of this script. And hopefully, that's going to get me to the feature. I did that multiple times in my career and never worked out. But it does work for some people. But I've heard in most of the times, it doesn't work, because it's just so damn hard. So how did you get this thing off the ground? How did you get your cast to agree to work with the first a quote unquote, first time director?

Matthew Gentile 22:51
All that kind of stuff? Yeah, no, that's, that's a great question. And so basically, you know, going back, I was, yeah, 2017 or 2018. I'm thinking, What is my first feature? What, like, what, what will it be? You know, and there were a couple, like, I was thinking, MIDI go, you know, trying to make something like, and I was very inspired by the Duplass brothers, who's, you know, I like their films by sensibility. As you could probably tell from the trailers, absolutely nothing like that at all. But I really like their stuff. And I love what they've had to say about indie film, just go out and do it. So I thought, okay, maybe I could make something for like 10 grand or 50, grand, even right, through Kickstarter, or whatnot. But, you know, I didn't quite have a story that fit that budget. Exactly. So I was sort of like, and then there was a film that actually, you know, an agent had sent to me, that was like, a home invasion thriller. That was like, you know, maybe like a small budget, but an offer to direct something. But, you know, the script didn't even work. And the writers of it didn't really, like want to change anything. So I realized I was like, if I shoot this, I'm just going to be a traffic cop, basically, and I'm not really going to have any, like, you know, not contributing much. And so I've kind of left that project, which, you know, people might give like, why are you doing that?

Alex Ferrari 24:09
Right, it was it was a gig. That's, that's a really interesting because

Matthew Gentile 24:12
Yeah, but I didn't want to do you know, because one thing about, you know, directing a movie as we know, your your side to that for life, you know, that's a 25 to life. You know, and so, look, I'm in movies don't always turn out how you want and, you know, every director, you know, has to take risks and swings and some of my favorites, you know, taking like real swings, and sometimes they're not understood in their time. But, you know, at the very least, I think you got to be able to wake up and say, you know, like, I did something I want to do or I'm proud of, or has my heart in it or whatnot. And so I was in this awkward time, so cut back a little earlier. I'm 14. I wanted to be an FBI agent before I was a filmmaker, and I used to go on the FBI as top 10 list with the dreams and hopes of helping the FBI catch a fugitive. And it's at this time that the face of Jason Derek Brown enters my life. You know, you got to see menacing faces, Osama bin Laden white Bolger, right. And then the surfer dude from Southern California. So the face stands out to me. And I'm like, What's that? That's interesting. Cut you 12 or so maybe 13 years later, I'm figuring out what's my first feature? Some storyboarding. A shoot I think was a really bad dentistry commercial. But I also used a fake name. And I, all of a sudden, as I'm storyboarding, I always have documentaries on the background. And the face of Jason Derrick Brown was popped onto the screen. Again, I was the first time I'd seen it. And like, since, you know, age 14, and I'm like, that's crazy. skystone essay? What, like, what happened here? What's the story? And so I became absolutely obsessed with the story. You know, because it was a camp, that's charismatic con man becomes a bank robber, just really, it's dark to me. And, you know, I have a great writing mentor, named Billy Ray, who always says that, if he's in, he's a great guy. You know, he has in his lectures, he's very, like, tough, you know, in terms of like, he's very, like, you know, coming to the delusions, in your face kind of guy from what I've said, but he's a great human being. I mean, he's like, just a heartfelt good guy. There's so much for political causes everything. There's a real mentor and match of a human. And he, he's his big philosophy always is, if I don't wake up in the morning thinking about the project, I don't say yes, he's in a position to turn down projects, which a lot of us aren't. But he you know, he's as if I wake up thinking about in the shower, I'm not, I shouldn't do it. And I think it's kind of similar about a film. And so I kept waking up thinking about Jason dark brown, this could be a really cool movie, and it felt like it to me. So at first I thought, maybe I'll try to write it and sell it as a script. Because it might be too ambitious for first movie, you know, this would be probably, you know, some some cachet behind it. So I got I thought, just give it a go as a script, because why not? And so I wrote the script. And at the time, I had known this actor, Jonathan gruff, who was about to be on the show of mine, Dr. And I knew him because, yeah, yeah. And, and he, I knew him because I used to tape his auditions in the William Morris mail. And so after my short did decently for me, I kind of touched with him to his agents, I think. And I said to him, Hey, would you like to be in this? You know, I'm writing a script for you. And he was like, oh, that sounds a pitched it to me. That sounds cool. Send it to me. And, you know, we'll see. And so he read it a few months later, he really liked it. And, but I don't think his agents did.

He wanted to do it, though. And so we kind of were like, I was like, great. So I have this guy I have, he's gonna show it's about to come out with David Fincher, that's pretty cool. And so I was kicking the thing around, it was hard to get people to read it. So to go to the proof of concepts, or I go into a company one day, and I pitched the script, and, you know, I pitch the dragons and you know, wants to do it. And they're like, you know, they have five out of 10 interested, so not great. And so I'm leaving, and this guy kind of pulls me aside and he goes, you need to do a proof of concept of the script. And I kind of like looked at him. And I was like, oh, yeah, like another short, great. That's the last thing I want to do. Right now I've done at this point, maybe eight, right? I'm like, you know, how many more shorts can I do? What am I going to do? What do I need to prove? And the guys that are very smart. Like I said, You've proven you can direct with those shorts, but you have not proven you can direct this. And I was like, Damn, that's pretty smart. So he gave me kind of a different instruction that this guy really kind of gave me he was like, but don't try to make a short work as a short, right? Because like, what makes a great short film and I honestly I even though some of my shorts didn't win awards, I would say I'd never made a great short film personally. I mean, very well made ones possibly have in areas for the time of being a student. You know, I didn't make pioneer by David Lowery ever or curfew by Sean Christianson. Like those were shorts that really like you know, had that or even mark McDonough shorts over the broken like those shorts had like real, you know, payoff structure. All right. My shorts were like really like good trailers first features.

Alex Ferrari 29:16
So that's exactly what you needed. That's exactly what you needed.

Matthew Gentile 29:18
And so I went for American murder inside just to shoot one scene. And we shoot one shot one of the climactic scenes of a SWAT invasion. We did it all in one shot. And I got Jonathan to do it. And when I made that when I shot that scene and put it up on IMDb, all of a sudden, mine 100 dropped and then a lot of people were interested in reading the script and wanting to know about so I was totally right. The script did become a really valuable calling card by the called the short became a very good calling card for the screenplay. However, it did not walk me up to a deal, you know. So I would say that I think what you were saying earlier is is accurate that it can help you get a step ahead, but it's not necessarily going to secure a thing because what happened was that they were Getting the script by that point had gotten a lot better. So people were interested, but some were interested in me not doing it. Because it was like ambitious and you have a script and run with it, thank you, but I wasn't interested in that. And then two different producers slash companies kind of came into my orbit that were very supportive of me directing it. That was traveling picture show company. My producers, Kevin Metacell, and Karissa fell, and Gigi films, Gia Walsh, those two came at me from different angles around the same time, they now debate who came first, it was geotech, Kevin grossa. And they, they saw my short, they read my script, that's all my other shorts, and they were like, Okay, we'll develop this with you. And we'll go through a process and we'll get it out to the right actors, and they really helped me, you know, because that process of working with them, you know, we developed the script for the year, roughly, I think, and there was option for me, and they were giving me notes, and I was doing rewrites. And that was my professional riding school. Right. You know, and then after that, we finished the script, you know, are like, okay, it's ready to go out for casting now. Awesome. And it's March 1 2020. So at that point, you know, we don't know where the world is gonna go are thinking, yeah, that'd be filming, you know, the third quarter of 2020 and get, get an actor touch and let's go. And then it didn't really look like it was going to happen, you know, for a little while. But what I decided to do in the pandemic, I was working, I had remote work as a script reader. So I was, you know, fortunately, I was able to keep working. But in my off hours, all I did was prepare with my team, non stop, I cinematographer and I shot listened script six times, I've worked with all my thesis shorts. And same with my editors. You know, one of them was doing pre visualization with me on all the set pieces were like, Let's hit this thing. Let's do my about every shot and like, be ready to go for tomorrow. And I was it was nice, because it helped keep people's morale up and the time when it was not great. And then, you know, we were getting, in terms of the big thing about getting this movie made specifically because it's really all about the character of Jason Derrick Brown was getting the right actor. And by this point, Jonathan was no longer available. He was shooting matrix and you know, millions of other things because mine better blew him up into, you know, exponential proportions. But he's the nicest guy. And you know, we had the most amicable authority for the project. But now we need to find our Jason and Tom Pelphrey came onto my radar because my producer GIA Walsh was watching Noah's Ark. And she said to Matthew, this guy's dynamite, and I had actually never watched it. So I was like, Okay, I guess I gotta watch Ozark. And I did it. It was a great show. He was phenomenal. And it's very clear that he was the guy, you know, like, you have a lot of people on lists, this business and whatever. But it became very quick, clear, quick, that he was the right actor to play this character, quality, the right range, and all that. And so we sent him the script, he came in, he became attached. And then once he got attached, the other actors came Orion.

Alex Ferrari 33:03
And yeah, everybody else started. So So you had a producer, you had producing team helping you put this in cool thing together the financing. I'm assuming they helped to put together as well once the cast came on. So you had you had a doubt around you putting this together?

Matthew Gentile 33:16
That was all Yeah, no, I mean, I can take credit for writing the script and directing the movie. I cannot take credit for financing of that. And I very little do with that other than material.

Alex Ferrari 33:26
Exactly. So, so Alright, so you're off. You're off and running. You're making your film. Is there a day as directors we always have that day that everything comes crashing down around you? What was that day for you? And how did you overcome it?

Matthew Gentile 33:41
I love that question. I've heard you asked him before. But I don't know if I was prepared for it. So the on the fly. The day when everything came crashing? I mean, look, you know film is anything that can go wrong will go wrong. The first day, we filmed a scene that took place on a boat party. So we're here to help, you know, and the first thing we shot actually quite easy. It was was Tom's character. Jason's shooting targets in a national parks are doing nice, beautiful wide shots. It's just one after you know, it's gone and some squibs on the paper, please shooting but really not too complicated. We're like, Okay, we got this. And you're like, Yeah, I think I heard I think I heard Yeah, I think I read more in the hanaway, the director of the novice, she was talking about how like, you know, there's always a feeling of when you're directing at first it's going like, Oh, this is direct. It's easy. I just do this overall. Or even even Bob Schrader said in an interview, he was like, yes, Charlie Rose. I think you asked him like this directing a hard job and he was like, Wow, no hard job. It's just a it's hard if you wanna make a great film, for a good film, but it's not like a think about theory. It's like it's quite, you know, comfortable as a job as far as jobs go. But anyway, so we filmed a paper plate shooting, we descend the mountain to go into this beautiful lake and shoot A scene where this character is filming himself having a lavish party where he's doing drugs, what? Wild stuff. And we get to the boat, and the winds start blowing us 40 miles per fucking hour on the ledge. Surrounded, boom, boom, boom, boom. And so I'm like, oh my god, we're not gonna have sound and I also was a small boat we were filming. So the only crew that could be there were me. Mike, my cinematographer was operating and our sound man and my Ed those four people on the boat, crew, and then 12 or so extras. And we played actors. So it was just a, it was funny, because as I was walking to the set, you know, I see all these se trailers, I see honey wagons and stuff. And I'm like, Oh, my God, this is like, a real movie. We're making a real movie, like I'm here. And then I'm on the boat, and my camera operator is hanging on the thing and the sound guys trying to get in. And I'm like, This feels it's film school. Still nothing changed. It's the same ship. The honey wagons and trailers are are fooling nobody. You know, it's, it's the same, it never changes. You're still chasing the day, you're still just sneaking under the radar you're trying to get like, every day is like robbing a bank. You know, I just tried to get the shots unique because we filmed that movie quite young 22 shooting days as the as intense shoot and a lot to get them with action elements and SWAT invasions.

Alex Ferrari 36:34
Yeah, it's not all in one location either. So it's like it's

Matthew Gentile 36:39
No we have 27. So it was, it was a pretty intense, it was an intense shoot. But honestly, though, like I say, as hard as it wasn't, you know, intense as it was, it was also incredibly rewarding, because here we were, in this time we filmed, you know, December 2020, November 2020, and did some second year, early 2021. So, we were filming pre vaccine, you know, pandemic, right. And we were getting to do what we loved. You know, my cinematographer, I guess it was my classmate from AFI my editor, you know, was also moved, both my editors were classmates of mine, so to be able to do my producer. So you know, I know by this point that's going to start filming for at least two or three years. I'm getting to basically make movie with my friends, you know, on a pretty, you know, for first time director of quite a nice scale. So it was really nice to be able to do that. And, you know, so even though it was insane. And with a cast that far exceeded any extra extensor. Your other question, you know how this guests come together? I mean, if you know, by the time we were making offers to people like Ryan Phillips, a Jacki Weaver, and a dean of an Zelle or Moises Arias or Chantal, all these people would have, if it wasn't COVID would have probably been busy. Right? They would write on their mobile Deena tours all the time. Right. Ryan's current or at Ryan works more than anyone I know, Tom the same. Like they're all you know, Chantelle just is always on a show. So it would have been really hard to I think, get these people. And so, you know, I was definitely am certainly Jack waver a two time Oscar nominee playing, you know, a great but small part. So it just no small parts, only small actors I know. But, you know, yeah, to have that luxury. You know, I mean, it's it's a no, it's great. It was hard. But I

Alex Ferrari 38:29
And since you've already direct, I mean, in some of your short films, you were directing some very seasoned actors as well. But when you when you're working with, you know, the kind of caliber of actors that you were working on in this project, I mean, you have to believe there's some intimidation, maybe? Or like, how do you approach a two time Oscar nominee? You know, how do you how did you kind of work with those actors to get them to where you wanted to be as a first time director? Because it's a very different than when you're Ridley Scott, this is not a conversation. I would never ask Ridley Scott this. Because he's got he's not 40,000 hours on set. No, no exaggeration. That time, but when

Matthew Gentile 39:08
Can be so confident,

Alex Ferrari 39:09
Oh, my God, you just walk it. On a side note here. I was. Remember, I thought I was talking to somebody who was working with Tony Scott. And he was on a commercial. And it was like five helicopters, like a bunch of stallions running down in the desert. And like, you know, cars, like all this craziness, and someone's like, Tony, are you are you like nervous? He goes nervous. He's like smoking a cigar. He's like, this is vacation for me. What do you talk about?

Matthew Gentile 39:37
I love him. Yeah. He's one of my favorite directors. He's actually the one director. He's the one director who has my birthday. Birthdays. Oh, nice. I'm so I've been doing scars, but I'm like, What a great burger. sherbert.

Alex Ferrari 39:53
So anyway, so how did you? Yeah, he was the best. There's no question he changed the acting. He changed action film.

Matthew Gentile 40:00
And by the way, he he discovered right Philip and film. Which movie in which movie crimson Crimson Tide has rights first movie, and

Alex Ferrari 40:09
Ryan was in Crimson Tide really? Oh, wow. I have to double check. That was before Cruel Intentions, obviously. Yeah,

Matthew Gentile 40:17
A few years. I think it's a couple of years because Crimson Tide was in the early 90s.

Alex Ferrari 40:22
Yeah, it was early 90s. But it was all about right and intense.

Matthew Gentile 40:26
Yeah. And he was on TV first, Ryan. He has a great he has a very interesting story about how he broke it, but I'll let him tell. But um, yeah, Tony Scott. I know. It was like a mentor to him. And he just did an interview. I learned this recently. Because I know that the next time I see him, I will ask him more about it. But he said, Yeah, he like went to Tony Scott's guesthouse things like, the kindest guy mentor. Yeah. So very, very cool.

Alex Ferrari 40:49
So how did you approach working with these actors?

Matthew Gentile 40:52
Well, you know, like, like, we said, yes, these are incredible actors. I am a first time director, and you know, naturally, you know, you're gonna even if you're as confident as Tony Scott are, you're gonna have some insecurities, you know, but I felt like, I mean, I, you know, the thing is, every actor and Dude, this is a Judas quote, and I'm glad I got her. You know, every actor is different, they all have a different language. And, you know, your job as a director is kind of figure that out. Right? Not necessarily trying to figure that out and pinpoint and be like, Okay, I know, you know, the figure out how they work what they need, you know, some actors, like, peek early in terms of their takes, right? Some actors are like, kind of real hot, take 123 Some actors need more to fight it. Right. And, you know, Jack Nicholson, famously was, like, amazing, I'll take one and then he kind of does the same thing, right? Or some did, there's only six stories, but how they, how they work, Leonardo DiCaprio likes to take a lot of takes to get to where he wants to go, you know, and, and so there's no one way. You know, that said, I gotta say, I don't mean to be falsely modest, like, I just felt so as a director, taking care of why these guys because they were all so good in different ways. Yeah. And that I didn't really feel that I had to do too much like, micromanaging or anything like that, ever. And I'm not that way with actors, because I personally, again, taught, you know, all the things Judith talks about her, not just her book, but also in our, you know, consultations that, you know, she read many versions of the script and worked me on it closely. And, you know, it's always about first incomes, enter into the relationships, what are the relationships of the movie that are the most important, and that's how I would kind of work. When I would work the, with the actors and say, like, we did zoom rehearsals, you know, we would really, I would focus, like one day would be alright, Tom, and Adina. The next day would be Ryan in the data, because a lot of interrogations or, you know, some scenes I couldn't rehearse didn't have some scenes. I didn't know for sure. But I did have some significance in rehearsals and chances to work with Tom. And I mean, they each were different, Tom, you know, came so prepared, knew his parts so well. And you know, it was really fun, because he would sometimes go off the page and adlib and do incredible things. But, you know, it says in terms of the intimidation of being a first time director, and having these high caliber actors, you know, one pretty great moment was we were filming a scene. And as we'll also answer your one on all white Rob story, you know, we were filming a scene that's really midway in the shooting, things seem to be going quite well, overall, you know, overall, we're making our days, we're getting good stuff. You know, the actors are great. And then we're filming one scene, with the three actors, I talked about some of the commentary, where they just like it, the scene wasn't working, you know, just get there. It's it was written, you know, you know, we read it in a rehearsal, we talked about it, and then we get to set it's just not there. Like something about it's awkward, right, the tones off, you know, they don't feel present. There's, they're struggling to engage. So I couldn't really tell what was going on. But I took the three actors aside, and said, as well, great actors. And I said, Listen, something's wrong on the page. You know, I failed you. I don't know what I didn't get it. Right. I'm sorry. Somebody drops the script. But this scene seems to have stumped me in us. So can you help me? Like, figure out what's on what's up here? And how can we make this like, what can I do? Thank you. I can I can rewrite blinds for you right now. Like, what do we need? And the actors all looked at me, and some of them are new that they do, and I think it helped them really lower their guard and go, Okay, this guy's going to work with me. And we figured it out. And the scene plays beautifully, you know? And so I had moments like that, you know, where it would just Just like sometimes just, you know, being like, like, I had everything in this movie, in my mind, like so prepared, right, the whole storyboard of the whole thing. rehearsals, you know,

Alex Ferrari 44:55
The COVID Prep, it's the COVID

Matthew Gentile 44:58
Scene breakdown. gallons of every scene costume Florida, every little thing that I could think of I did. And then you know, you get there and things change. But you know, I think something Jacki Weaver said to me, because every actor I worked with, I made a point to ask them either whether it was in the rehearsal, or the phone call before, you know, they kind of set because I do think it's important to try to meet actors before they show up in some way. So it's not possible to meet the person for a coffee. But if you can do that, I think that's the best. But I called up. You know, I remember talking to Jack, I always ask, How do you like to work? Because I have a number one question, but to get anything you get that? How do you like to work? What can I you know, and what, and then I would also ask him, because a lot of these people, you know, Tom was coming from David Fincher, right. Ryan has worked with Robert Altman and Clint Eastwood and has stories about that, you know, Chantelle, are some of the best TV directors, you know, Jackie, David O. Russell, and like, you know, the heaviest of heavy hitters, right. So, you know, I would ask them, like, what are the, in your experience? What are the best directors do you know, and something Jack, they all basically actually said the same thing, which was the best directors are prepared, organized, but flexible. That was the recurring answer. So they will always have a plan. You know, they would have their, their ship together, more or less, but they were also flexible for changes, because I think that's like, sometimes people just especially writer directors, like, I know, you are, you know, we get like, you know, we can be very protective of our work, you know, so I think having that flexibility to let people's ideas, but also, there's a danger of being too flexible. Right?

Alex Ferrari 46:34
So you gotta you gotta guide them in. Yeah, we gotta you gotta think and

Matthew Gentile 46:37
Then you're not really making a move anymore. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 46:41
Do that. Let's do that. Why not? Let's just try it. And then you're like, we've only we've only done a quarter of a page. A third of a page all day. Sorry, we didn't make our day. You know, there's one scene in the movie, you know, that. I always love asking directors is because this is a very awkward scenario for directors is the love scenes. Man, how the hell did you shoot some of these love scenes? In the movie? They're intense. And also, I mean, it's an awkward, it's not sexy. It's not a sexy thing. It's awkward for the for the talent. It's awkward for you like anytime I've ever had to do something like that. It's just like, how, you know, and I was doing it coming up in the 90s in the early 2000s. Where, you know, there wasn't a an intimacy, you know, agent on I forgot what it is an intimacy person on set to kind of guide you through the process. How did you approach that scene? And how do you make the actors feel comfortable? And do you clear the set? What how do you work that?

Matthew Gentile 47:43
Yeah, absolutely. And that it's those digits. I was not scared of the action, but I wasn't scared about right. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's definitely it's, you know, I mean, look, I think number one, yeah, you have to have an intimacy coordinator. There's really no way around that. And of course, like, why wouldn't you? Right, right. So we have intimacy coordinator, we did clear the set as much as we could for you know, other than the person operating the camera or whatnot. Everyone did not need to be out, in a way. You know, and it's about making the actors as comfortable as possible. It's hard to what I made sure to do when I shot those scenes was to be very clear about what I wanted and needed, and to not as much as I love him be David Fincher. On that day. Do you know?

Alex Ferrari 48:36
One more time! Yeah, one more time!

Matthew Gentile 48:39
What you need and get out and, you know, try to make you be sensitive to that, because grafting is very hard. You know, I think I once said to none of my actors were difficult and as the truth, like, you know, I hate to sound so forth. But really, none of them were. And, you know, there's one time when I know one of them is like, I'm sorry, if I'm like, you know, this is hard for me, I'm figuring this out. And also, you know, my job is hard as director, and I'd say it's not, but I don't have to be up in front of that camera, and I'm gonna get vulnerable in front of that. Right? I can hide by the camera, I can hide behind my script pages. You can't you gotta be vulnerable and truthful. And to get yourself to that place is very hard, and then to be seen really is no different. It's just it happens to be a physical product. So it's just yeah, it's important, I think, to be sensitive to people and making sure they have what they need. And, you know, hiring the right people to do the job.

Alex Ferrari 49:33
Fair enough. Fair enough. Now, when is this? When is the film coming out? Where can people watch it?

Matthew Gentile 49:38
The film will be coming out October 21, in select theaters, and then it will be on October 28. They'll still be in theaters, but it'll also be on demand and digital platforms. So you can rent it on all transactional VOD. So yeah.

Alex Ferrari 49:51
Now it's awesome to know I'm gonna ask you a few questions ask all my guests. What advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today?

Matthew Gentile 49:59
You know, While I'm, I think, trying to be a director, you know, I think learn, I think forcing yourself to write scripts is very valuable and important. Even if you know, you're not a good writer or you don't think you're a good writer, a lot of good writers don't think they're good. And a lot of bad writers think they're great writers. So I think, you know, because for me what really move the needle forward was writing, writing my screenplays, and you know, because I had to write myself into the director's chair. Personally, I do think making lots of shorts is great. I think short films are an incredible training ground. I know they work for me. And I know there were a lot of people I know. So I think making short films, I think, writing constantly and I think, you know, I'm gonna go back to Billy Ray Now, he says, You have to get that work, everyone. That doesn't mean it's such like a competition, I get that work, you know, bathrooms have to report Alex OFSAA Bauwerk, yourself, you know, I think constantly push yourself to do better to be better. And that's something I know, I'm taking myself right now, even, you know, I made a movie. That is my first feature. And in many ways, I'm very proud of it. But I'm also trying to learn how I can be better as a filmmaker and how I can go up because it's my first idea, like, on my last, so I think you know, yeah, and I think the tenacity is really important, because it's very easy to lose momentum in the process of moving. as a, as a director, I do believe you are responsible for charging the call. Because I think that's what everyone comes around. You know, I've seen a lot of movies fall apart, whether it's in development or whatnot, because or even post, like, you know, they get taken away, because the director kind of checks out. So I think as a director, when you're going to make a movie, you got to be ready to be like, Okay, I'm gonna spend, I can give three or five years to this thing. Because it's not just making the movie. It's like we said, selling it for distribution. It's, and I've said it myself many times, like, even now doing interviews, I was like, oh, man, if I hated this movie, I'd be so miserable. Get people to see it. It's an endless grind. And you're associated with that. So I think you know, yeah, my advice would be to have the tenacity and make sure that you know, the project, you're doing film, you're investing your time. And it's something you really want to do more than anything else.

Alex Ferrari 52:22
Three, film three of your favorite films of all time.

Matthew Gentile 52:25
Three or so my first favorite film is Lawrence of Arabia, seen it so many times on 70 millimeter on the big screen. Ron 95, Kurosawa total masterpiece that just blows my mind every time. And the third one I will go with for this one is also the Godfather, and people were out. But you know, upon my eating Coke, blood and all of that, I just, you know, I've seen that movie, not three times this year, and it just continues to hold up.

Alex Ferrari 52:56
Did you see Did you see the offer?

Matthew Gentile 52:58
I have not I heard it's great.

Alex Ferrari 53:00
I like it. I love if you're a filmmaker, you're gonna love the offer.

Matthew Gentile 53:05
That's what they're saying. Yeah, because that kind of the critics weren't. Because they don't get it. But people but people are loving it. I've heard I've had 10 People saying to me often guys,

Alex Ferrari 53:15
I mean, if you're a filmmaker, you've got to watch. There's very few quality projects out there about filmmaking. And that's just you sitting there going, Well, what happened here, it's like, it's crazy.

Matthew Gentile 53:31
I think I found the lesson that's taking me the longest to learn, I think is to never say never. I think that's something I continue to learn. Like, I get to a phase in film where like, I'm never gonna work with that person again, or I'm never gonna make that mistake again. And I'm never gonna, you know, do this gun or that kind of again, I think that while it's great to have a clear vision of what you want, and your career, I think, being open to possibilities and you know, not trying to control everything, because as directors we love control. You know, we love that and I think learning the biggest lesson that might be learning that actually you're not in control.

Alex Ferrari 54:11
Oh, no, no. As a director you are barely you're just trying to scrape some shots together for the day. You are you have no control of whether you have no control over locations. You know, no control over an actor not being able to get there or being difficult or a crew member who thinks he knows better than you or she knows better than you and giving you hassles and politics and fight you when you start listening to stuff. A director truly just like what wakes up and goes well help something's gonna happen today. Right? I hope that this camera working step one, good. Everyone here step two, always food is there no food, okay, no food, no lunch, everybody. Okay, so now we got to figure that out. Like it's just just very little You can control. But when you're there, you're just it's a carnival man. It's we're carnies. It's a carnival. It's but it's this insanity. That is I call it the beautiful sickness, that once you get bitten, it's with you and you can't get rid of it ever, ever, ever, ever, and it makes you to do insane things. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Matthew Gentile 55:23
No delusions about that, man. Yeah, no, but it's a plan. I mean, to be able to direct and write and, you know, like, in some regards, I don't think doing a movie at 100 million is very different from doing maybe a 5000. Like, it's all there. You know, there. Of course, there are differences, but it is at the end, they had storytelling and its narrative and its art and, you know, finding a way to make things work. You know, you look at the biggest directors talk, like, I love listening to interviews with Scorsese. He's still talking like he just started, you know, he's figuring it out, or Spielberg to the same thing. He's like, I wake up, and I have no idea what I'm doing, or I want to call in sick, right. It's, you know, so I think, yeah, I think being able to embrace that being out of control is something that I'm gonna have to keep learning. Sure. You, you and our listener and your listeners. Oh,

Alex Ferrari 56:12
Yeah. And there's I forgot what directors said this, but that I interviewed on the show, but it was one of these big, you know, kind of heavy hitter directors I've had on the show. And they were telling me the cat was doing this movie was like, $100 million movie studio movie. And then we went down the street and stole the shot. I'm like you what you what? It was? Yeah. Yeah. We just like between takes everybody was setting up and I just grabbed a camera and my DP and the actors and went down the street and just stole the shots. You're stealing shots at $100 million. He goes, Yeah, dude, it never ends. And I'm like, This is great. Because cuz you think you know, you're sitting there in your reclining chair like Peter Jackson was in, in Lord of the Rings. And it's just like, No, no.

Matthew Gentile 56:59
You always have you always have a day to me. You know, you always have there's never pages.

Alex Ferrari 57:04
You got to pay

Matthew Gentile 57:05
Never enough time. Never enough money. You know,

Alex Ferrari 57:07
Never enough time. Never enough money. It's it's but we're here. And that's what we love doing it man. Man, man, I appreciate you coming on the show. Brother. Congratulations on new film, and I wish you the best with it. And keep making movies, man. Keep doing what you love doing and, and getting getting the stories out there that you want to tell my friend but congratulations, seriously, you are at the top. One 2.1% of all filmmakers, you made a movie. And it's you know, with with a budget and with a cast. And that is good. And it's a rare thing in this world that we live in. So be very proud of yourself, my friend. So thanks again.

Matthew Gentile 57:43
Alex, thank you so much. And thank you for all that you do for filmmakers and for the films you make today. So thank you, and thank you for having me. It's a real pleasure to be here and this is a great fun!

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1. Billy Crystal 

There are performers that impact your life without you even knowing it and today’s guest fits that bill. On the show, we have comedic genius, multi-award-winning actor, writer, producer, director, and television host, Billy Crystal. We’ve seen Billy’s versatile work across all areas in the entertainment world, stand-up, improv, Broadway, behind and in front of the camera, feature films, television, live stages like SNL, and animated movies.

2. Thomas Jane

Thomas Jane is a prolific actor, director, and producer, with extensive credits including the series The Expanse and Hung, and the features The Punisher, 61, The Predator and Boogie Nights. Jane recently starred in in the hit thriller The Vanished, and his film Run Hide Fight world premiered at the 77th Venice Film Festival. Jane will next be seen in the anticipated drama series Troppo for IMDb TV/Amazon, based on the bestselling novel by Candice Fox, which he is also executive producing via his Renegade Entertainment banner.

3. John Leguizamo

Fast-talking and feisty-looking John Leguizamo has continued to impress movie audiences with his versatility: he can play sensitive and naïve young men, such as Johnny in Hangin’ with the Homeboys; cold-blooded killers like Benny Blanco in Carlito’s Way; a heroic Army Green Beret, stopping aerial terrorists in Executive Decision; and drag queen Chi-Chi Rodriguez in To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar.

4. Edward James Olmos

Our guest today is 80s star, multiple-awards film, and theater actor, and activist, Edward James Olmos. Olmos’s roles in films or TV shows like Stand and DeliverBattlestar Galactica, broadway musical and film Zoot SuitBlade Runner as detective Gaff, and many others are some of the most memorable of all time and he’s still dominating our screens. While I could not resist talking about his iconic roles over several decades, we mainly discussed Olmos’ new must-see film, Chasing Wonders.

5. Eva Longoria

Eva Longoria has long established herself as one of the most sought after television directors in Hollywood. Named by Variety as one of their most anticipated directors of 2021, Longoria continues to hone her craft, seek new projects, and expand opportunities for others by paving the way for future women and minority producers, directors and industry leaders in Hollywood and beyond.

Her strong work ethic coupled with her passion for storytelling has led to a pivotal moment as she prepares for the release of her feature film directorial debut with Flamin’ Hot. She recently wrapped production for the highly anticipated Searchlight biopic about the story of Richard Montañez and the spicy Flamin’ Hot Cheetos snack for which she beat out multiple high profile film directors vying for the job.

Eva became well known worldwide thanks to Desperate Housewives, where she played a main character, Gabrielle Solis.

6. Guy Pearce

Guy Edward Pearce was born 5 October, 1967 in Cambridgeshire, England, UK to Margaret Anne and Stuart Graham Pearce. His father was born in Auckland, New Zealand, to English and Scottish parents, while Guy’s mother is English. Pearce and his family initially traveled to Australia for two years, after his father was offered the position of Chief test pilot for the Australian Government. Guy was just 3-years-old. After deciding to stay in Australia and settling in the Victorian city of Geelong, Guy’s father was killed 5 years later in an aircraft test flight, leaving Guy’s mother, a schoolteacher, to care for him and his older sister, Tracy.

Most recently, he has amazed film critics and audiences, alike, with his magnificent performances in L.A. Confidential (1997), Memento (2000), The Proposition (2005), Factory Girl (2006), The Hurt Locker (2008), The King’s Speech (2010) and the HBO mini-series, Mildred Pierce (2011). Next to acting, Guy has had a life-long passion for music and songwriting.

7. Kyra Sedgwick

Kyra Sedgwick is an award-winning actress, producer and director. She is best known for her Emmy and Golden Globe-winning role as Deputy Chief Brenda Leigh Johnson on the TNT crime drama “The Closer” and most recently starred on the ABC comedy “Call Your Mother.” She recently directed the feature film SPACE ODDITY, which stars Kyle Allen and Alexandra Shipp.

Her film roles include THE EDGE OF SEVENTEEN, THE POSSESSION, THE GAME PLAN, SECONDHAND LIONS, WHAT’S COOKING, PHENOMENON, HEART AND SOULS, SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT, BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY and SINGLES.

8. Lance Henriksen

Lance has been in over 300 films through-out his remarkable career.He’s mentored Tarzan, Evel Knievel and the Antichrist, and fought Terminators, Aliens, Predators, Pumpkinhead, Pinhead, Bigfoot, Superman, the Autobots, Mr. T, Jean-Claude Van Damme and Steven Seagal.

He’s worked with directors James Cameron, Steven Spielberg, Kathryn Bigelow, Sidney Lumet, Francois Truffaut, John Huston, Walter Hill, David Fincher, John Woo, Jim Jarmusch and Sam Raimi, but this is just skimming the surface.

9. Robert Forster

This week we are joined by legendary actor Robert Forster. Robert has been a working actor for decades, appearing in a classic film like Medium Cool, the iconic John Huston’s Reflections in a Golden Eye80’s action classic Delta Force (love me a good 80’s action flixand Disney’s The Black Hole (one of my favorite films growing up).

He was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor in 1997 for Quentin Tarantino’s Jackie Brown, which he credits with reviving his career. Since then Robert has been on fire in the second half of his career, appearing in The DescendantsLike MikeMulholland Drive; Me, Myself, & IreneLucky Number Slevin and Firewall, just to name a few.

10. Edward Burns

Many of you might have heard of the Sundance Film Festival-winning film called The Brothers McMullen, his iconic first film that tells the story of three Irish Catholic brothers from Long Island who struggle to deal with love, marriage, and infidelity. His Cinderella story of making the film, getting into Sundance, and launching his career is the stuff of legend.

The Brothers McMullen was sold to Fox Searchlight and went on to make over $10 million at the box office on a $27,000 budget, making it one of the most successful indie films of the decade.

Ed went off to star in huge films like Saving Private Ryan for Steven Spielberg and direct studio films like the box office hit She’s The One. The films about the love life of two brothers, Mickey and Francis, interconnect as Francis cheats on his wife with Mickey’s ex-girlfriend, while Mickey impulsively marries a stranger.

Even after his mainstream success as an actor, writer, and director he still never forgot his indie roots. He continued to quietly produce completely independent feature films on really low budgets. How low, how about $9000. As with any smart filmmaker, Ed has continued to not only produce films but to consider new methods of getting his projects to the world.

BONUS: Adrian Martinez

Being yourself in any situation in life is hard for many people. Actors do make a living playing other people but the art of being comfortable in your own skin is a lesson we can all learn. I invited on the show Adrian Martinez, an actor, writer, producer, and soon-to-be-director, with nearly 100 film and TV credits.

Adrian’s career began as a high school track star on NBC’s “Unsolved Mysteries“. Some in casting have called Adrian, “the sidekick to the stars,” as evidenced by his recent sidekick trifecta– Will Smith’s sidekick in Warner Bros’ “Focus,” Ben Stiller’s sidekick in his Fox remake of “The Secret Life of Walter Mitty,” Will Ferrell’s sidekick in Lionsgate’s “Casa de mi Padre,” to name a few.

 

Ultimate Guide To Denis Villeneuve And His Directing Techniques

Denis Villeneuve, Dune, HBOMax

REW FFW (1994)

If one were to take a poll of contemporary cinephiles asking them to name the most exciting filmmakers working today, the name of director Denis Villeneuve would undoubtedly slide in towards the top of the list— if not cap it outright.

Films like PRISONERS (2013), SICARIO (2015), and ARRIVAL (2016) have stunned audiences with their daring narratives and stylistic bravura, subsequently positioning him as an inspired steward of tricky franchise resurrections like BLADE RUNNER 2049 (2017) and the upcoming DUNE.

Although he’s been around international film circles since the 1990’s, this rather incredible run of acclaimed films throughout the 2010’s have sent his profile skyrocketing into the stratosphere.  Indeed, it’s gotten to the point that his name could be mentioned in the same breath as Christopher Nolan when discussing prestigious studio filmmakers whose films are seen as “events” in and of themselves.

While he is often compared to Nolan due to their shared mastery of filmmaking‘s technical aspects and epic-canvas approach to storytelling, Villeneuve distinguishes himself through an ability to conjure a sustained atmosphere of deep dread and relentless foreboding— the visual equivalent of a low-frequency note that one can’t actually hear but nonetheless experiences as an unsettling sensation.

He has yet to make a horror film in the classical sense, but his artistic style nonetheless channels the existential horror of his protagonists and projects it outward as slow, undulating waves of tension. His body of work may span three decades, but there is a distinct sense that the 52 year-old filmmaker is only just getting started.

Born October 3rd, 1967, in Bécancour, Quebec, Villeneuve’s background as a French Canadian citizen fundamentally shapes the character of his early career.  He studied filmmaking at the Université du Québec á Montréal, experiencing some success with his earliest efforts: in 1991, for example, Villeneuve was selected as the winner of a youth film competition hosted by Radio-Canada.

Even before he came to the attention of mainstream American audiences, he received several Canadian Screen Awards (their equivalent of our Oscars or Emmys). His earliest available work from this period — the 1994 short REW FFW — seems far removed from the style we associate with Villeneuve today, but it nevertheless plants the seeds for his particular artistic worldview.

Nowhere is this more apparent than in his insistence on referring to the piece as a “psychodrama” instead of a “film”. The term, whether it was coined by Villeneuve himself or someone else, could easily apply to any of his feature films (at least, within his 2010’s output).

It acts as a descriptor of both subgenre and tone, grounding events as outlandish as an alien invasion, meeting one’s exact doppelgänger, or even the discovery of oneself as a synthetic human being with nuanced, complex character reactions.

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REW FFW adopts this conceit to an extreme degree, positioning itself as a pseudo-sci-fi immersion into the experiences of a journalist interacting with the Rastafarian culture in an impoverished Jamaica.  In structuring his story as a series of first-person memories that the protagonist can experience like a film, able to jump around at any point in the timeline with the aid of a special device, Villeneuve blurs the line between documentary and fiction.

Shot by Villeneuve himself and cameraman Martin Leclerc on 16mm film, the footage is presented in a handheld, cinema-verite fashion, complete with rack zooms and frequent composition adjustments that organically capture the desolate ruins and strangely-beautiful squalor of an urban slum that the locals refer to as “Trench Town”.

Indeed, it almost feels as if the footage had been shot on-the-fly with no ulterior agenda during a trip to the island nation, only to have a narrative shape imposed upon it after the fact. Indeed, it’s in Villeneuve’s collaboration with editor Suzanne Allad where the footage coheres into a coherent story, bolstered by a richly-layered sound mix that blends production audio with snippets of found radio transmissions and evocative aural effects.

The key piece of Villeneuve’s audiovisual puzzle is his inclusion of a shot that slowly approaches a strange box, lit in a theatrical style that stands in stark contrast to the naturalistic Jamaica footage. A voiceover tells us this is the vehicle through with the protagonist can access his memories at will— a kind of psychological cinema projector.

Scrappy, abstract and decidedly experimental, REW FFW bears little resemblance to the weighty, formalist aesthetic Villeneuve would come to be known for.

However, it nonetheless establishes that his cerebral approach to form and content has been in place from the very start.  The piece steadfastly refuses to provide easy answers, forcing the audience to work for total comprehension by utilizing a stream-of-consciousness bilingualism that harkens to Villeneuve’s French-Canadian roots.

Above all, it evidences a young filmmaker eager to capitalize on the endlessly malleable visual grammar of the cinematic art form— and in the process, it becomes the first step towards a highly-influential career that has managed to entwine itself with the contemporary zeitgeist.


MAELSTROM (2000)

In recent years, director Denis Villenueve has emerged as one of the most exciting filmmakers working in large-scale, big-budget studio filmmaking.  While he doesn’t quite command the box office like his generational cohort Christopher Nolan, he has nonetheless parlayed the appreciation of critics and a cult fan base into a similarly-showmanlike reputation wherein the release of a new Villeneuve film is regarded as a major cinematic event.

Our American-centric worldview would deign this period to have begun shortly after the release of his studio breakout, PRISONERS (2013), but the fact of the matter is that Villeneuve has been enjoying accolades since his very first feature was released in 1998. That film, AUGUST 32nd ON EARTH, told the story of a model trying to get pregnant by her best friend, and premiered in the Un Certain Regard section of the Cannes Film Festival before entering a home video black hole that persists to this day.

During the production of that film, Villeneuve conceived of another idea, born of a nascent fascination with car accidents.  While he ultimately had to put it down, citing frustration over his difficulty in developing the project further, he nonetheless found the idea persistent enough to return to it a year later.  Titled MAELSTROM, the project seemed to present itself to Villenueve almost as a comedy (albeit a very dark one), whereas many people he gave the script to experienced actual nightmares.

In crafting his story about a woman who rails against the absurdity of her fate and other cosmic coincidences, Villeneuve had discovered a truly unconventional story worth committing to film, and subsequently enlisted his AUGUST 32nd ON EARTH producer, Roger Frappier (working alongside Luc Vandal), to help make his outrageous vision a reality.

Taking place in Montreal, the epicenter of Villeneuve’s Quebec, MAELSTROM concerns the plight of Bibian Champagne (Marie-Josée Croze), a deeply-flawed protagonist who is introduced terminating her pregnancy— easily one of the more polarizing scenarios in which one could possibly establish a lead character.  In this context, the procedure is emblematic of her very troubled life.

Bibian is a small business owner in Montreal whose enterprise is on the brink of collapse; what little success she’s experienced, however, stems less from her entrepreneurial spirit and more from her notoriety as a privileged child of a local celebrity.

Racked with guilt, depression, and a healthy dose of nihilism, she has turned to drugs, alcohol, and risky casual sex as coping mechanisms. In what could be considered her breakout role, Croze imbues this hot mess of a protagonist — who Villeneuve modeled after different women he had known, including a pathological liar — with a beleaguered energy that continually isolates her from her environment and from others.  Indeed, her only friend in this bleak world is Stephanie Morgenstern’s Claire, a supportive friend who is nevertheless beginning to strain under the burden of Bibian’s friendship.

This exceedingly brittle status quo is completely shattered one night when Bibian strikes an old man with her car and immediately drives off into the night.  Later on, she discovers that the man, a Norwegian fisherman, died from his wounds after staggering on foot all the way back to his apartment. As her guilt mounts to unbearable levels, she decides to commit suicide by driving her car off a tall dock and into the black water below.

When she ultimately lives, she comes to view the episode as a kind of spiritual and moral cleansing, and allows herself the blessing of moving on with her life. Villeneuve’s darkly absurdist plot, however, has different plans — by chance, she comes to make the acquaintance of the fisherman’s son, Evian (Jean-Nicolas Verrault), who has traveled to town to collect the ashes.

An instant connection forms between the two, compelling Evian to miss his plane back in favor of a romantic interlude at her apartment. The bizarre flow of fate and irony once again inserts itself, revealing that the small plane Evian was supposed to be on crashed, killing everyone onboard. As Evian takes to calling Bibian an “angel”, her guilt returns, with the promise — or threat — of a full-fledged reckoning between the terrible sins of her past and the hopeful future she’s only just begun building for herself.

MAELSTROM’s narrative may be rooted in grounded human drama, but Villeneuve’s visual interpretation of the plot’s pitch-black irony often approaches the realm of fantasy.  Indeed, it often plays like the bleakest of fairy tales. The story even has a storybook-style narrator, albeit in the twisted form of a dying fish on a butcher’s grisly chopping block in some underground dungeon taken straight out of a stylized snuff film.

Voiced by Pierre Lebeau, the animatronic puppet seems to possess an ancient omniscience, and can transfer its life essence from body to body as the butcher chops his way through a bucket of fish. This (very strange) conceit also manifests as a recurring visual motif throughout Biban’s story; Villenueve frequently populates his 35mm 1.85:1 frame with the sight of dead or dying fish flopping around on the road, or being run over by indifferent sedans.

Bodies of dark, churning water also appear throughout, emphasizing the fish’s isolation from their habitat even as they echo Bibian’s roiling internal tumult. The visual conceit of “the fish” continues on through MAELSTROM’s particular aesthetic approach, with director of photography André Turpin’s high-contrast, cold-skewing color palette evoking their chromatic appearance via strong blues & greens.

Villeneuve and Turpin intentionally throttle the color red, making its occasional appearance all the more striking and unnatural.  Production designer Sylvain Gingras’ sleek, sterile sets complement this color scheme while allowing for lots of bright light, which Turpin subsequently overexposes to such a degree as to create an overpowering daytime nightmare not unlike the onset of a migraine.

Editor Richard Comeau makes order of Villeneuve’s primarily-handheld chaos, codifying MAELSTROM’s visual grammar as a series of close-up faces and whip pans that evoke Bibian’s emotional unmooring as well as her alienation from a modern urban nightmarescape that threatens to swallow her whole.  The film’s musical approach makes a pointed attempt at cruel irony, deploying a sprawling menagerie of eclectic needledrops that range from intense choral opera cues to cheery vintage pop. The end result is a soundtrack that primarily serves as narrative commentary in lieu of conveying a distinct mood.

Villeneuve’s deliberately-incongruous musical choices underscore the core message that informs MAELSTROM’s unique tone, which he describes as a “playful call to be responsible and to be careful” (4).  In his worldview, the modern world is beset by perils both physical and existential, and the best way to navigate this endless obstacle course is to cultivate a morbid sense of humor.

Nowhere is this more evident than in one of MAELSTROM’s final moments, where the dying fish narrator, caught in an endless, seizing loop of death and consciousness, announces that he’ll now share with the audience the secret to life’s meaning— only to receive a final decapitation before he can get the words out.

This early iteration of Villeneuve’s thematic conceits, as relativity unformed as it is, bridges the gap between the self-described “psychodrama” affectations of his debut short REW FFW (1994) and the foreboding atmosphere of his later studio features. Though it is set against a modern, cosmopolitan backdrop, MAELSTROM abstractifies its Montreal setting into a malevolent dystopia that seems to actively conspire against Bibian, aiding and abetting her depression with its claustrophobic, industrial atmosphere.

Villeneuve achieves this through exaggerated interpersonal melodrama, as well as his lensing of locations in such a way as to emphasize isolation and alienation— wet streets littered with dead fish, cramped living quarters, sterile offices, and exteriors whose towering architectural elements dwarf the buzz of human activity below.

While Montreal’s signature landmarks and culture are downplayed in favor of an admittedly generic cityscape, MAELSTROM nevertheless forms the foundation for the oppressive, imposing environments that populate Villeneuve’s subsequent filmography: the soggy Pennsylvanian suburbs of PRISONERS, the hostile slums of Mexico City in SICARIO, or the monolithic future LA of BLADE RUNNER 2049, to name just a few.

MAELSTROM would premiere on home turf, the Montreal World Film Festival, and was subsequently followed by a US premiere at Sundance and the FIPRESCI prize at Berlin.  Critics didn’t quite know what to make of Villeneuve’s transgressive fable, but there were enough champions for the film to land it several Genie Awards (now known as the Canadian Screen Awards), including the top prize for Best Motion Picture.

What happened afterward, however, was a development very much befitting the film’s dripping veneer of irony— Villeneuve was unhappy. Despite all the accolades and surging career momentum, he viewed MAELSTROM (and to the same extent, AUGUST 32ND ON EARTH) as artistic failures that didn’t live up to the high standards he had set for himself.

Subsequently, he embarked on a self-imposed sabbatical from filmmaking until he could make a film “he felt proud of”, and for the next nine years, he would stay home and raise his children. Villeneuve’s career could have rightly ended here, but the future had something else in store for the young filmmaker.


POLYTECHNIQUE (2009)

The 21st century has long been heralded as an optimistic era of transformative societal change, but two decades in, it’s clear that it will continue to be dominated by the regressive attitudes of the 20th.  The trend began as early as the waning hours of December 31st, 1999, when New Year’s Eve celebrations were tempered by fears of society-wide collapse driven by a poorly-coded computer bug.

Obviously, that scenario didn’t pan out, but the conflicts of twentieth-century globalism quickly imposed themselves upon our hopes for a new, brighter era: September 11th, imperial occupations masquerading as wars of liberation, widening inequality, and debilitating economic recessions.  Even as of this writing, a global pandemic that threatens to surpass the scale of the 1918 influenza crisis has forced the world’s population to seek refuge indoors for the foreseeable future.

“The new normal” is a phrase thrown around often these days, implying that the hope and progressive ambitions pinned to the dawn of the new millennium have been replaced by a deep, enduring state of existential dread, insecurity, and fear.

Of all the various scourges of this still-nascent century, perhaps no “new normal” is as aggravatingly avoidable as runaway gun violence.  Mass shootings occur with alarming regularity in America, and our utter inability to marshall overwhelming public sentiment into meaningful legislation has resulted in a climate of resignation, fatalism and inevitability.

We think of this scourge as uniquely American; gun control advocates breathlessly point to all the other countries who boast low shooting rates thanks to strict gun laws, while proponents doggedly stick to the text of the Second Amendment as if it was gospel.  Our neighbors to the north are often invoked in these sorts of arguments, held up as a prime example of common sense gun control that doesn’t come at the expense of individual freedom.

Yet, it is Canada where the template for the modern-day American school shooting was forged. In a December 1989 event that still ranks as the country’s worst mass shooting in its history, a deranged young man driven by misogynistic antagonism towards the female engineering students of the Montreal Polytechnique School went on an unchecked shooting spree that left fifteen dead (including himself via suicide), fourteen more injured, and countless others with deep emotional scars.

Thirty years later, the French Canadian director Denis Villeneuve would recreate the event for his third feature, POLYTECHNIQUE (2009).  He had been away from cinema screens for nine years, raising his children at home until he found a project compelling enough to justify his return.

He had been approached by producer and actress Karine Vanasse, who had been lobbying to make the film for several years prior, and agreed with her argument that enough time had passed to appropriately address the event in a cinematic context, using it as a touchstone for a larger discussion about gun violence in a climate where school shootings were occurring in the USA with increasing regularity.

In reopening these national wounds to examine the trauma therein, the creative team — comprised of Villeneuve, Vanasse, screenwriters Jacque David & Eric Leca, and co-producers Maxim Rémillard, Don Carmody, and André Rouleau — knew they faced a veritable minefield of sensitivity and scrutiny. As such, they set about crafting a stark, hyper-focused storyline fractured into several viewpoints, through which the audience could experience and process the magnitude of terror on display.

For Villeneuve himself, POLYTECHNIQUE would be an opportunity to press his particular voice into the service of serious introspection, in exchange for catapulting his own artistic profile onto the cinematic world stage.

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In recreating the full scope of that fateful day’s trauma, POLYTECHNIQUE splits its perspective into a triad of narrative figureheads. Vanasse herself plays Valérie, a mechanical engineering student who is up for a prestigious internship in the commercial aviation industry.

Her naturalistic performance benefits from a great deal of research conducted before the shoot, which included talking directly to the survivors and the family members of the slain women. One particular anecdote that would inform her performance came from a survivor who didn’t identify with the “feminist” label that the shooter affixed to his targets, but found that the ordeal was “the first time in her life she had to confront her femininity head-on”.

Vanasse clings to this sentiment in her portrayal of Valérie, projecting a deep feminine strength driven by optimism over the future— even as that future is suddenly thrown into immediate danger. Indeed, the triumph of hope over despair forms the through-line of Valérie’s story. By the time of her fateful encounter with the shooter, she’s already been made painfully aware of the liability that her womanhood possesses in her particular educational environment; an earlier scene finds an important interview quickly derailed by her interviewer’s casual misogyny, born of his inherent expectation that only men can seriously pursue a career in engineering.

It’s an illuminating episode that casts POLYTECHNIQUE as an examination of the full spectrum of misogyny — from seemingly-harmless indifference to outright hostility. Furthermore, it positions Valérie’s character as a direct repudiation to The Killer’s hateful manifesto: his actions are premeditated on the belief that his own ambitions in the field are disadvantaged by an imbalanced focus on diversity at the expense of merit, while her experience shows that, in the harsh light of reality, the exact opposite is true.

While cinema may be routinely described as an “empathy machine”, capable of presenting disparate viewpoints to illustrate a broader truth about the human experience, POLYTECHNIQUE’s decision to humanize The Killer himself by installing him as one of the story’s three figureheads feels gravely misguided considering the proliferation of gun violence in American schools over the last several years.

There’s a tendency in art & media to humanize our monsters; to probe their psyches in search of an explanation for the horrors they’ve unleashed on the world. In the process, however, they are raised up into quasi-mythological figures while their victims are anonymized.

POLYTECHNIQUE has the good sense not to give its Killer a name, but it nevertheless endeavors to extend its empathetic gaze to the quiet, antisocial and militantly misogynistic young man who feels so aggrieved and threatened by members of the opposite sex that the only logical course of action is total extermination.  Villeneuve introduces this young man, played by Maxim Gaudette, writing up his manifesto in the bedroom of his dingy apartment with the self-congratulating bravado of a revolutionary.

And yet, he just barely possesses the courage of his convictions, almost losing his nerve altogether and abandoning his plot at the last second. The humanity of his monstrosity is that he is an utter coward, unwilling to look inside himself and take personal responsibility for his perceived shortcomings. Instead, he projects his false sense of persecution onto an external “Other” that can be easily defined within the narrow confines of a conspiratorial mind— and who conveniently happens to be completely defenseless when he ultimately decides to act.

Gaudette’s committed performance aside, POLYTECHNIQUE’s excursions into his mental state compromises its primary focus on the victims— the source of the film’s visceral power. Considering that some critics initially faulted Villeneuve for not going deep enough into the Killer’s psyche, the now-archaic impression of this creative decision nonetheless illustrates how far the gun violence debate has evolved in the past decade.

As mentioned previously, POLYTECHNIQUE employs a fragmented non-linear structure, positioning Valérie’s story as the fulcrum upon which the other perspectives are balanced.  All roads lead to a single convergence: the Killer’s storming of a classroom in which Valérie, her friend & roommate Stéphanie (Evelyn Brochu) and Sébastien Huberdeau’s fellow male student Jean-Francois are in attendance.

The Killer separates the men from the women and commands the men to leave the room before proceeding to gun down the women. We see this event multiple times, each time from differing perspectives that reveals new information and reminds us of the fluid subjectivity of Villeneuve’s storytelling.  For a large chunk of the film’s middle section, Villeneuve diverges from his focus on the shooting to follow the character of Jean-Francois in the days and weeks following the massacre.

We know very little about him prior to the shooting, but we do know he has a friendly (and possibly an unrequited romantic) connection to Valérie, which Villeneuve exploits to position the two as representative opposites.  If Valérie signifies hope in the face of unimaginable tragedy, then Jean-Francois is despair.

A momentary — and very understandable — lapse in courage leads Jean-Francois to assign personal blame to himself for the loss of his classmates. At this point, Villeneuve hits pause on his minute-by-minute recreation of the shooting to follow Jean-Francois in the aftermath; we watch him grasp for a semblance of normalcy by visiting his mother in the countryside, only to find he ultimately can’t cope with this new, broken reality.

But, as the old saying goes, it is always darkest before the dawn, and the bleak conclusion of Jean-Francois’ story doubles back into the pivotal classroom massacre, replanting our perspective into the character of Valérie so that we can witness the triumph of one’s recommitment to living life to its fullest.

At this relatively early point in Villeneuve’s career, one can see how his aesthetic evolves as he finds his truest voice.  His recent films have mostly conformed to a predetermined, monolithic visual style, but POLYTECHNIQUE serves as an example of form following function.

The most immediate aspect of its image, captured on 35mm film in the 2.35:1 aspect ratio, is the black and white presentation— a somber reflection of serious subject matter that has the added bonus of depriving your garden-variety gorehound the thrill of copious bloodshed.  Working with cinematographer Pierre Gill, Villeneuve sheds the heavy-handed psychodrama conceits of MAELSTROM in favor of a naturalistic, quasi-documentary approach that favors a roaming, restless camera.

Switching at will between handheld setups and stabilized tracking movements, Villeneuve and Gill create the impression of a subjective intelligence, ducking and weaving along with the students as they scramble for shelter amidst the chaos.

Production designer Roger Martin echoes this non-sensationalistic approach with an authentic period recreation that never calls attention to itself. Nothing about the costumes or the set dressing screams “1989”— a deliberate creative decision which, combined with the black and white photography, lends a timeless feel to the mise-en-scene that only reinforces its emotional resonance as a cautionary tale about the ever-present specter of gun violence.

A few diegetic needledrops — specifically, Men Without Hats’ “Safety Dance” and an obscure cover of “Tainted Love” — serve as our best indicators of POLYTECHNIQUE’s time period, but by and large, Villeneuve foregoes pre-existing tracks from the late 80’s in favor of a spare, atmospheric score by Benoit Charest. Charest’s cues, orchestrated primarily with the piano and violin, complements the picture without calling attention to itself, further reinforcing Villeneuve’s laser-like focus on the visceral terror of the experience.

Despite its near-180-degree turn from MAELSTROM’s decidedly-theatrical tone, POLYTECHNIQUE still provides a glimpse into the burgeoning thematic and artistic conceits that have since solidified into the backbone of Villeneuve’s unique aesthetic.  One of the few male directors with a particular interest in, and sensitivity to, female protagonists, Villeneuve uses POLYTECHNIQUE as an opportunity to explore the idea of femininity under siege.

The Killer’s victims find themselves in his crosshairs solely for the simple — yet entirely nonsensical — offense of lacking a Y chromosome.  The film hammers home the helplessness of being targeted for such arbitrary reasons, showing us no shortage of images where the Killer passively sits back and lets the male students run away with their lives intact.

It may be an extreme example of the injustices that women at all levels of society suffer on a daily basis, but it is nevertheless one that is occurring with frightening regularity.  Villeneuve’s ability to transform mundane environments into foreboding landscapes in seeming possession of a malevolent omniscience transforms the banal utilitarianism of an educational facility into a claustrophobic labyrinth of death.

While the actual Montreal Polytechnique School availed its campus for Villeneuve’s use, he chose not to do so out of respect to the victims, instead conforming an alternate location better suited to his thematic pursuits.  Beyond his staging of the school as a literal shooting barrel, Villeneuve also shows us desolate urban housing projects and the rural exurbs covered in a heavy blanket of crisp snow— a reflection of the chilly economic conditions that fuel the Killer’s actions as well as a reinforcement of the film’s core theme of hope in the face of unspeakable bleakness.

While Villeneuve’s somber approach defers to respectful realism, he does allow himself a few moments of artistic indulgence; nowhere is this more evident than his inclusion of two aerial shots, inverted along their Y axis so as to convey an abstract uneasiness and dread.

For example, a shot of snowy countryside as seen from the air seems less like we’re looking out the windows of a plane, and more like we’re being dangled upside-down from the fuselage. Another shot — the final one in the film — finds the camera pushing down a symmetrical school hallway, but the composition would suggest that we’re crawling on the ceiling— a visual manifestation of Villeneuve’s parting statement that these students have just had their worlds turned upside-down. Forever.

Initially released in Quebec before playing at the Director’s Fortnight program of the Cannes Film Festival, POLYTECHNIQUE proved that he hadn’t lost his artistic relevance in the nine years he’d been away.  Positive critical notices drove a healthy box office run, which then translated to a showering of awards. The Genie Awards — the Canadian equivalent of the Oscars — awarded POLYTECHNIQUE with wins in no less than nine categories, including Best Motion Picture.

In recreating one of the darkest chapters of Canada’s history with an understated style and grace, Villeneuve had managed to install himself at the forefront of the country’s film industry. No doubt the siren call of Hollywood was already beckoning, luring him away with the promise of even greater magnitudes of success.

However, he was already hard at work on his next project, having set it up once again with a Canadian production company. His ultimate migration to the American studio system was inevitable — and imminent — but in the meantime he would use his home-court advantage to reinforce the strong foundations that his first three features had built.


120 SECONDS TO GET ELECTED (2006)

While director Denis Villeneuve had reportedly vowed not to end his self-imposed sabbatical from feature filmmaking until he found a suitably-compelling project, the short format evidently didn’t require the same high bar of scrutiny. Six years after the making of MAELSTROM (2000), Villeneuve would return with an extremely brief, yet hard-hitting, effort.

Clocking in at its titular two minutes, 120 SECONDS TO GET ELECTED (2006) finds Villeneuve experimenting with the industry’s nascent ability to shoot on a cell phone in the depiction of an unnamed politician delivering a fiery speech to a crowd. Played by actor Alexis Martin, the politician races to convey his message, which begins as a rambling, disconnected stream of passionate buzzwords before quickly coagulating into a fascist screed that whips his audience into a frenzy.

Using the same narrative/documentary hybrid approach he brought to his debut short REW FFW (1994), Villeneuve adopts a monochromatic aesthetic to blend a static close-up of the politician’s face with (presumably) pre-existing crowd footage shot at a rally. A recurring series of hard-hitting text intertitles punctuate the politician’s speech by repeating key words and phrases, becoming something of an ideological hammer bludgeoning us with his forceful rhetoric.

If Villeneuve’s natural talents as a filmmaker weren’t evident before, 120 SECONDS TO GET ELECTED handily accomplishes that goal by demonstrating how effortlessly he can construct the implication of a larger world beyond the confines of the frame in a matter of minutes. In foregoing the mentioning of any particular nationality in favor of pure political ideology, Villeneuve creates a dystopic,1984-style landscape saturated with the horror of creeping fascism.

A prime example of the fiery, countercultural politics that infuses Villleneuve’s early work, 120 SECONDS TO GET ELECTED draws a direct comparison to the manipulative populism of Hitler, showing how easily charisma and the project of authority can be deployed in the service of insidious ends. At the same time, it predicts the incoherent & reactionary isolationist policies that would deliver Donald Trump and his ghoulish cronies to the White House ten years later.

Though its origins as a short cell phone video might position 120 SECONDS TO GET ELECTED as something of a lark within Villeneuve’s filmography, it nevertheless sharpens his storytelling abilities; honing his artistic instincts for the major works to come.


NEXT FLOOR (2008)

The short film format, arguably even more so than the conventional feature-length, possesses the capacity to showcase the medium of cinema at  its highest ideal. Freed from the constraints of narrative expectation, the short film can fly its freak flag sky-high as it ventures out into open water in search of artistic experimentation, innovation and expression.

That being said, there does tend to be a kind of “stigma” surrounding short films, as if they were a minor or lesser form of motion picture because they aren’t as easily commodified or exploited on the same commercial scale as feature films, or because they’re often regarded as a training ground for emerging filmmakers to make mistakes while developing their voice. Yet, the medium endures as a staple of film festivals worldwide, given even greater exposure thanks to the rise of internet video platforms & streaming.

Some filmmakers work exclusively in one format or the other, while others have a seemingly-effortless ability to switch between the two. Director Denis Villeneuve has proven himself as a member of the latter, especially in the context of his 2008 short, NEXT FLOOR. Made during a break in production on his 2009 feature POLYTECHNIQUE (and released shortly before), NEXT FLOOR adds narrative economy to Villeneuve’s technical and world building skills.

Telling a story initially conceived by producer Phoebe Greenberg, Villeneuve paints a grotesquely absurd portrait of wanton gluttony: eleven guests voraciously dine on exotic animals while attended to by a crack team of servers. They keep serving, and the diners keep eating. Eventually, their combined (and growing) weight causes the whole party to crash down to the floor below. A brief dust-off, and the dinner resumes anew at even faster pace, and the cycle repeats. All the while, the servers hustle downward, one floor at a time, setting and re-setting the dinner before the diners fall through again.

Running at a scant eleven minutes, NEXT FLOOR achieves its darkly-comic resonance via the power of suggestion. There’s no dialogue, save for the lead butler frequently commanding his staff to prepare the “next floor”, each utterance taking on more weight as the party eats its way downward.

One gets the distinct impression of a metaphorical or allegorical approach on Villeneuve’s part— in an article for Indiewire, journalist Zach Hollwedel theorizes that this grungy, nondescript industrial tower is Hell; each floor representing one of the fabled Circles. Indeed, one gets the sense that these guests — each clad in garb that signifies their elite status (tuxedos, military dress uniforms, elegant gowns) — are being punished for their wanton gluttony in life, thrown into the visual equivalent of a downward Shepherd tone with no bottom.

As they consume the endless array of increasingly-elaborate exotic meats, it becomes clear these guests simply cannot stop. Only one character, a blonde socialite, seems to possess the self-awareness of shame or contrition. Villeneuve’s camera, which frenziedly roams the opulently macabre spread like it can’t decide what to gorge on first, repeatedly dwells on her character with a calm, penetrating gaze.

Closeups reveal her silent tears, which might go unnoticed amidst the caked layer of dust coating her face if not for the snaking grooves of water. We see her despair at the realization that she’s damned to this awful eternity.

From a technical standpoint, NEXT FLOOR points to Villeneuve’s gradual transition from rough-hewn, punk iconoclasm to a foreboding formalism. Shooting with a fine-grain film stock, Villeneuve and cinematographer Nicolas Bolduc imbue the image with a cold, greenish cast reminiscent of THE MATRIX TRILOGY, giving the proceedings a sickly feel.

Extreme closeups of meat garishly-prepared to varying degrees of rawness punctuate Villeneuve’s frequent use of rack zooms. These zooms repeatedly telescope in and out at different speeds, oftentimes in the same shot, echoing the feeding frenzy on display. Other notable aesthetic touches include the deployment of opening & closing credits that scroll up counter to the infinite downward trajectory of the action, as well as the juxtaposition of diegetic classical music performed by a string quartet against the steady beat of low, primal drums.

NEXT FLOOR premiered at the 2008 Cannes Film Festival, marking the first time that Villeneuve’s work had been seen on cinema screens in eight years. After receiving the Canal+ prize for Best Short in the Semaine De La Critique category, NEXT FLOOR went on to screen at Toronto. The larger success of POLYTECHNIQUE — and Villeneuve’s full-throated return to filmmaking — was still around the corner, but NEXT FLOOR would provide audiences a brief, yet unforgettable, glimpse of the artist’s considerable development during his sabbatical.


INCENDIES (2010)

For most of the 2000’s, director Denis Villeneuve was a semi-notable Canadian filmmaker in the midst of a self-imposed sabbatical. Despite his stunning successes in his home country’s awards circuit, he had grown disenfranchised with his profession, and focused instead on raising his children until he found material compelling enough to justify a return.

The project that would ultimately herald his comeback— 2009’s POLYTECHNIQUE— was still some years away, but the material that would constitute an even-more consequential project was unexpectedly imminent. In 2004, he attended a play in Montreal by the playwright Wadji Mouawad. Titled “Scorched”, Mouawad’s play spun a harrowing tale about heritage and family set against the traumatic unrest of the Middle East.

As he sat and watched, Villeneuve grew acutely aware he was witnessing, in his words, a “masterpiece” (3). He had no personal connection to the material on the basis of its geopolitical backdrop, but its undercurrents of Greek tragedy resonated strongly enough that he began to piece together a film adaptation as a potential project.

First, he had to overcome Mouawad’s initial misgivings about such an undertaking, earning his blessing off the strength of a few early pages of screenplay. After nearly five years and writing and re-writing, Villeneuve and his co-writer Valérie Beaugrand-Champagne fashioned an adaptation so strong that Mouawad declined credit altogether. The resulting film, 2010’s INCENDIES, would build on POLYTECHNIQUE’s success and become a pivotal turning point in Villeneuve’s career, opening the door to his eventual destiny at the forefront of the American studio system.

A French word for “conflagrations” or “fires”, INCENDIES draws significant inspiration from the life of Lebanese author and activist Souha Bechara in its telling of the fictional Marwan family’s turbulent past and hopeful future. Villeneuve and Beaugrand-Champagne’s screenplay employs a two-pronged structure, cutting between Canada and the fictional Middle Eastern country Daresh as effortlessly as it swaps the present timeline with a parallel plot set sometime in the 1970’s.

We’re first introduced to Jeanne and Simon Marwan, a pair of adult twins living in Canada who have been tasked via their late mother’s will to travel back to Daresh and deliver handwritten letters to a father and brother they’ve never met. Jeanne, played by renowned Canadian actress Mélissa Désourmeaux-Palin, is quiet and reserved, yet probing and tenacious. Simon, by contrast, is impatient and stubborn, given the suggestion of a deep-seated rage by the casting of Maxim Gaudette, who previously appeared as The Killer in Villeneuve’s POLYTECHNIQUE.

The journey to their ancestral homeland is nothing short of a total reckoning, shattering their most deeply-held beliefs about their roots with the revelation of their long-lost father and brother’s identities.

As the twins retrace their mother’s steps through a war-torn Daresh, causing agitated whispers and reopening old wounds every time they mention her name, Villeneuve toggles back and forth to the 1970’s to chronicle the hardships endured by their mother, Nawal Marwan, a young political activist and revolutionary who came to be known by her oppressors as “The Woman Who Sings”.

Actress Lubna Azabar powerfully portrays Nawal over a wide range of ages (she even plays the character as seen in her 60’s, shortly before her death). Caught in the crossfire of an explosive, bloody war between the country’s Christian and Muslim sects (evocative of the Lebanese Civil War), Nawal’s personal story quickly becomes entangled with the major political movements that crash around her.

Her story begins in disgrace, thrown into exile as a result of bearing a baby out of wedlock— an event in which she just barely escapes an honor killing at the hands of her own brothers. She searches the countryside for the orphanage that her son was placed into, only to find it destroyed. Her search continues for several more years, enduring the slaughter and destruction wrought by sweeping revolution to cultivate an extraordinary strength and resilience that eventually carries her across the ocean, towards the domestic tranquility of the West.

Safely ensconced in Canada, she raises a family of her own while fostering a quiet career as a secretary under the employ of Notaire Jean Lebel (Rémy Girard), but it’s only a matter of time until she finds that the lingering threads of her embattled history have followed her into her new life.

The performances that drive harrowing power of INCENDIES are bolstered by the sophisticated strength of Villeneuve’s technical approach. If it can be said that his films are distinguished by a certain sense of foreboding or intimidating weight, then INCENDIES arguably stands as the first major work with his solidified aesthetic at play.

Working once again with his MAELSTROM cinematographer André Turpin, Villeneuve adopts a kind of formal precision to his 1.85:1 compositions, combining the smooth clarity of Zeiss master prime lenses with the organic quality of fine-grain Super 35mm film.

Considered camerawork, a restrained color palette that savors contrast over saturation, and a patient pace that savors the long take all work in harmony to yield a subtle yet confident sense of directorial control— even when Villeneuve and Turpin employ the relative chaos of handheld photography, or the narrative pauses its realism to indulge in the impressionism of slow-motion.

INCENDIES’ core technical challenge lies in differentiating and accentuating the narrative’s dual geographical and temporal structure. This challenge compounds when considering that the production’s slim budget allowed for only fifteen days on location in and around Amman, Jordan, meaning that the majority of the film had to be shot in Villeneuve’s inescapably-Western home country of Canada. Towards this end, light and color become crucial components of the film’s approach.

Eschewing the conventional practice of using text to signify different time periods, Villeneuve and Turpin turn to natural light as a way to distinguish between Nawal’s journey through Daresh in the 1970’s and her daughter Jeanne’s contemporary pilgrimage— itself meant to flow effortlessly back into Nawal’s story as a way to bridge the vast time gap and evoke a shared experience.

Hard sunlight casts stark shadows over modern-day sequences, while a diffuse, dusky glow bathes the 70’s timeline. Similarly, color works to quickly orient the audience in geographical space, all while predicting the particular aesthetic of several Villeneuve films to come. Cold earth tones reminiscent of his later aesthetic with PRISONERS (2013) place the onscreen action in Canada, while the burned-out desert palette that characterizes SICARIO (2015) finds its origins in INCENDIES’ fictional Daresh.

The additional touch of red block text intertitles also helps to place the viewer in time and space, acting more like chapter headings than lower-third indicators. Composer Grégoire Hetzel provides a spare orchestral score punctuated with female vocals, but the core of INCENDIES’ musical identity belongs to Radiohead. Two needledrops in particular — “Like Spinning Plates” and “You and Whose Army” become a recurring motif throughout the film, with the latter track having been a foundational aspect of Villeneuve’s vision since inception. The piece provides a haunting, downtempo character that complements the dark mystery at the heart of the proceedings.

In adapting Mouawad’s source play for the screen, Villeneuve’s attraction to the material becomes readily apparent. He employs his pet themes to mold the story in his own image, which changes Mouawad’s source material rather drastically so that Villeneuve can bring a sense of lived-in authenticity to a backdrop he isn’t necessarily familiar with.

The use of Girard’s Notaire Jean Lebel character becomes crucial in this regard, as Villeneuve’s own father worked as a notary. As such, Villeneuve’s beginning of the story in Lebel’s office (meticulously modeled after the director’s father’s actual office) establishes a necessary baseline of authenticity that grounds the rest of the action.

Said action distinguishes itself as a story about pain as inheritance, and the dark secrets hidden in lineage, with its matriarchal perspective harmonizing rather effortlessly with the many other female protagonists that populate his filmography. Far more than the “strong women” stock types that other directors prescribe masculine characteristics to, Villeneuve roots his protagonists’ strength in their fundamental femininity.

From POLYTECHNIQUE to later works like SICARIO and ARRIVAL, these women assert themselves with formidable, STEM-styled intelligence that more than makes up for any perceived physical vulnerability. This is certainly true of Jeanne Marwal, who is seen early on in INCENDIES inhabiting the world of academia before setting off alone to Daresh— not to conquer, but to listen; to gather the pieces of her mother’s puzzle, in the hopes that bringing her tragic past to light will serve as some kind of posthumous redemption.

The flashback sequences depicting her mother, Nawal, highlight the character’s political activism as well as a courage and resilience that only motherhood can provide. Indeed, after flirting with the theme in MAELSTROM, Villeneuve’s signature artistic interest in motherhood as an active dramatic concept emerges in full bloom with INCENDIES.

If traditional patriarchal lineage can be said to imbue subsequent generations with a sociopolitical identity — class, status, property, the perpetuation of old rivalries — then matriarchal lineage, at least as defined by Villeneuve’s worldview, passes down its reverberations: resilience, foresight, the need for protection, the burial of secrets… and the laying of contingencies for their eventual unearthing.

The revelation of dark family secrets is usually done reluctantly and only when absolutely necessary, to spare one’s children of needless pain and burden. The drawn-out unveiling of Nawal Marwan’s harrowing past acts, conversely, as catharsis— “the truth shall set you free”. While her decades-long search for her son ends while she’s still alive to know his identity, the fulfillment of her character’s arc must happen posthumously.

Only by passing on the truth to her twin children via a mission assigned from beyond the grave can she finally absolve herself of the shame that prevented her from doing so in life. Only then will she allow herself to rest; to be buried in a proper grave that commemorates the tremendous sacrifices she made to give her children a better life in the west.

From the relatively-grounded backdrops of INCENDIES and PRISONERS to BLADE RUNNER 2049’s fictional futurescape, Villeneuve underscores the brutality of these worlds (real and fictional alike) by anchoring our experience of them within the feminine perspective. Hard, oppressive environments are a signature of Villeneuve’s filmography— he’s becoming something of a master in the crafting of realistic dystopias, imbuing otherwise-ordinary landscapes with an aura of ominousness or foreboding.

However, to hear the director talk in interviews or audio commentaries, these cold, inhospitable conditions don’t necessarily correlate with his own worldview; indeed, one gets the impression that he considers himself an artist with a deep sensitivity to the fragile beauty of life.

By generating narrative sympathy for characters whose physicality or vulnerability could be considered more “delicate” — at least as it relates to conventional, deeply-entrenched attitudes of masculinity as a celebration of brute strength and stoicism — Villeneuve can better highlight the virtues of feminine fortitude. With its depiction of a fictional country torn asunder by political and religious conflict, INCENDIES crystallizes Villeneuve’s fascination with the ways in which women maneuver brutal, barbaric worlds built without regard for them.

Throughout INCENDIES, Villeneuve displays ample evidence of his maturing voice, finding confidence and authority in the dramatic power of the material instead of stylistic flourishes or techniques. Its reception would build on the previous success he encountered on the awards circuit, premiering at Venice and Toronto before making a splash with American audiences at Sundance and Telluride.

Critics generally praised the film, with a few noting their distaste for the film’s length and melodramatic touches (both aspects, ironically, would go on to become a core part of Villeneuve’s artistic approach)(6). These positive notices would drive a modest box office run, generating $16 million against a $6 million budget— maybe not very impressive by Variety’s standards, but enough to deliver Villeneuve a Best Foreign Language Film nomination at the Oscars and an opportunity to cross over into the American studio system.

Indeed, INCENDIES would be the last work Villeneuve completed while toiling under the relative obscurity of the Canadian film industry before his invasion of Hollywood, and wins for Best Motion Picture and Best Director at the Canadian Genie Awards provided a suitably prestigious send off.

A decade on since its release, it has become quite clear that INCENDIES completes the foundation laid by MAELSTROM and POLYTECHNIQUE, becoming the cornerstone upon which Villeneuve could build the monolithic works that would deliver him to the forefront of mainstream studio filmmaking.


PRISONERS (2013)

Following the international breakout success of his 2010 feature, INCENDIES, director Denis Villeneuve found himself perched on the precipice of a career in the American studio system. Before taking the plunge, however, he’d indulge himself with a pair of short experimental art films— neither of which appear to be available to the public currently.

The first, which boasts the admittedly unwieldy title of ETUDE EMPIRIQUE SUR L’INFLUENCE DU SON SUR LA PERSISTANCE RÉTINIENNE (2011), is apparently more akin to an art installation than a short film in the conventional sense. Running for just one minute, the film is described by IMDB as a “series of flashing green and red screens set to music”.

Reportedly, this creates the illusion of different patterns in the mind’s eye, all of which react to the music. The second, RATED R FOR NUDITY, concerns itself with three acts that unfold during an “experimental session of attempted mass hypnosis”. Without seeing either, it’s difficult to speculate on how they fit into Villeneuve’s body of work.

Going by their IMDB descriptions alone, however, it’s not a stretch to imagine them as experimental manifestations of his ongoing exploration of the “psychosphere”— a term recently coined by the creators of the HBO series TRUE DETECTIVE which attempts to describe the general ambience that arises from a collective cultural psyche; the interior state manifest within the visual world. In retrospect, it’s clear that this theoretical state was set to become a dominant aspect of Villeneuve’s artistic aesthetic.

While Villeneuve was at work on these experimental art projects, the project that would become his American studio debut was quietly circulating through the paces of development. After landing a coveted top spot on the 2009 Blacklist, an annual listing of the best-liked scripts as determined by industry executives, writer Aaron Guzikowski’s original script, “Prisoners”, found itself the subject of serious attention.

First set up as a directing vehicle for Bryan Singer starring Mark Wahlberg and Christian Bale, the project’s long development cycle saw names as varied as Antoine Fuqua and Leonardo DiCaprio attached before ultimately securing a director in the guise of the rapidly-ascendant Villeneuve.

Working from a $46 million product budget overseen by producers Andrew A. Kosove, Kira David, Adam Kolbrenner, and Broderick Johnson, Villeneuve would prove to be an inspired choice: the escalating technical and thematic sophistication of his French-language Canadian films makes for a rock-solid foundation upon which PRISONERS’ bold narrative twists and somber aura of mystery could stand firm against any wary audience disbelief. One of the standout films of the 2010’s, PRISONERS is something of a herald, announcing the arrival of a towering new voice in American film.

PRISONERS takes its title from the notion that we are all prisoners to our respective traumas, forced to live with the consequences of our actions or the actions of others. This sentiment hangs over the film like a death shroud, deepening what could otherwise have easily been a pulpy genre tale about the search for a kidnapped child.

Set in contemporary, exurban Pennsylvania, the story assumes the clashing perspectives of Keller Dover and Detective Loki: two men who share the same goal: find and rescue a pair of little girls who seemingly vanished into the thin air of a cold Thanksgiving afternoon.

Dover, played by a never-better Hugh Jackman as an increasingly desperate father quickly running out of patience with the laws of man, finds that the only way he’s going to find his daughter alive is to turn to lawlessness.

He’s a faithful, devout Christian confronted with an evil he can’t comprehend, and in trying to confront it, he quickly falls into darkness himself.

Evoking the political reaction to the devastation of 9/11 and the subsequent manhunt for those responsible, Dover takes to abducting his only lead and spiriting him away to a hidden location, brutally torturing him until he gets the information he wants. A swirl of timely socioeconomic factors compound his desperation— he’s a recovering alcoholic and the downwardly-mobile owner of a small carpentry business.

His family and his faith are the only things he has, so this particular problem puts him in a position where he can quite literally lose everything. He’s also an avid hunter and survivalist— he’s what we’d know describe as a prepper, his basement obsessively stocked with food and all sorts of supplies in case of emergency.

The irony, of course, is that all the prepping in the world could never prepare him for this emergency. In going to such a profoundly dark place, Jackman capably subverts his charismatic leading-man persona and delivers an unforgettably volatile performance.

Jake Gyllenhaal, who previously worked with Villeneuve on his feature ENEMY (the entire production and release of which would ultimately book-end PRISONERS’ own), portrays Detective Loki as Dover’s equally-haunted inverse: a coyote-like loner with ambiguous morals, his meticulously-manicured “hipster cop” aesthetic a visual signifier of his cool & controlled demeanor.

Driven by a singular focus, he has seemingly shed himself of all extraneous matters— Villeneuve declines to show him with any family, significant others, or hobbies. We don’t even see where he lives. He’s essentially a justice robot, cloaked in an air of mystery as elusive as the one at the film’s story.

That said, Gyllenhaal wisely contours the enigmas of his character with a specificity of physical detail: a greased-down undercut, oxford shirts buttoned to the top with air ties, neck tattoos, and a large gold ring bearing a Freemason symbol— all of which, brilliantly, invite further questions than provide answers.

PRISONERS’ supporting cast features a stacked deck of acclaimed character actors, each of whom carve out further layers of thematic meaning while complementing the ethical quandary at the heart of the story.

Paul Dano and Melissa Leo evocatively embody what one could consider to the narrative’s antagonistic presence, but they too suffer from their own demons in a manner that complicates their moral standing.

Dano plays Alex Jones, an emotionally stunted and troubled young man with the equivalent intelligence of a 10 year old. As the suspected child abductor, he reinforces our cultural expectation of the type of person who would do such a thing— he displays psychopathic tendencies like animal abuse and lives a reclusive life in his dirty RV, for example.

Dano knows this, projecting a frail physicality and a genuinely unnerving creepiness to better lean into our expectations while laying the groundwork to subvert them as Dover’s increasingly-brutal interrogation techniques yield diminishing returns.

Leo, completely unrecognizable under a frumpy wig, coke-bottle glasses, and a foam rubber posterior (1), plays Alex’s “aunt”, Holly Jones.

Determined and deceptive, Holly is perhaps the least complicated character in the film; she’s come to peace with her darkness a long time ago, and has found a coldly efficient way to perpetuate it.

Mario Bello does her best with the underwritten role of Grace Dover, Keller’s wife, throwing every ounce of her talent into a character completely overcome by grief.

Viola Davis, by contrast, enjoys a bit more depth as family friend, Nancy Birch. She belongs to an economic strata more affluent than the Dovers, but finds that even the creature comforts of an upper middle class position can’t protect her family from the unspeakable evils of the world.

Furthermore, she discovers her moral code reaches deeper into ambiguity than she might expect; when confronted with the shock of Dover’s desperate act, she is compelled not to right his wrong, but to simply allow it to happen, hoping it might deliver the results that the authorities so far have been unable to provide. In this context, Terrence Howard asserts himself as her counterweight.

As Franklin Birch, Nancy’s husband and Dover’s best friend, he lacks the stomach for Dover’s methods— he’s a ballast of morality, conflicted nonetheless even as he points out the immorality of Dover’s abduction and subsequent torture of Alex.

PRISONERS begins Villeneuve’s string of collaborations with Roger Deakins, earning the celebrated British cinematographer one of his many Oscar nominations by ushering Villeneuve into the digital age. Whereas all his previous feature-length efforts had been shot on celluloid, here Villeneuve embraces the cold precision of digital for the first time.

His assertive aesthetic loses nothing in the translation, infusing the 1.85:1 image with a foreboding power that stems from the impression of some kind of omniscient malice.

The pristine digital image, sourced at 2.8k resolution on an Arri Alexa using Zeiss Master Prime lenses, reinforces this conceit in a way that the organic warmth of photochemical film cannot.

The wide latitude and color space of Arri’s digital flagship allows Villeneuve and Deakins to create a high contrast look with vanta-black shadows, its palette ably balancing cold earth tones with the incandescent warmth of practical lighting sources.

Compositions reinforce the central aura of suffocating mystery, oftentimes casting characters in silhouette or shooting through framing devices like windows occluded by fogged-up glass or rain streaks.

The handheld, journalistic immediacy of INCENDIES stands down in favor of PRISONERS’ deliberate and formal camera movements— slow dolly pushes and purposeful aerials reinforce the aforementioned sense of omniscience, as if we’ve assumed the perspective of cruel fate itself.

Another key collaborator in Villeneuve’s filmography emerges for the first time here, in the guise of the late composer Jóhann Jóhannsson. His original score is the perfect complement to Deakins’ monolithic pictorial approach, underlining the unspeakable malice that governs the lives of the film’s characters.

He achieves this via a brooding, ominous suite of droning strings that carry the audience along on a current of dreadful inevitability.  Jóhannson’s music is like encountering a tiger or a panther in captivity— one can’t help but admire the beauty and elegance of its form, even though said form exists to make it a perfectly efficient killing machine.

This dark beauty stems from Jóhannsson’s balance of the aforementioned surge of low droning with an understated celestial organ that escalates dramatically; it offers PRISONERS’ characters the possibility of upward ascendancy, or a divine deliverance from the misery of their station. Far from an overtly religious statement, this conceit offers only a small comfort— if not salvation, then a modest grace… just enough to get through the day.

Working with the ample resources afforded by a major American studio, Villeneuve enjoys a broader canvas upon which to paint the colors of his core thematic palette. PRISONERS feels of a piece with earlier works like INCENDIES in Villeneuve’s explorations of maternal fortitude.

With its focus on the male characters of Dover and Keller, Guzikowski’s script yields little room for their female counterparts to fully assert themselves, but Villeneuve’s direction manages to extract as much as possible.

He adopts a kind of “iceberg” approach to his realization of Grace Dover, Nancy Birch, and Holly Jones, using what little information he has to convey the multitude of characterization that lurks underneath the surface. In the case of Nancy and Holly in particular, Villeneuve highlights the lengths to which mothers (and in Holly’s case, “aunts”) will go to protect their children.

We expect a mother to “do anything” for her child, but in the extreme case of abduction Villeneuve shows us what “anything” really means: with Nancy, it means looking the other way in the face of torture; with Holly, maternal desire to protect her “nephew” is twisted and perverted by the delusions required to perform evil acts.

Villeneuve’s singular ability to convey a towering, intimidating atmosphere finds a suitable conduit in PRISONERS’ Pennsylvania setting. By not naming the specific city or town in which the action takes place, he creates a kind of mythical impression of the Keystone State.

We get a sense we may be somewhere in eastern Pennsylvania, although in truth we are actually somewhere in rural Georgia (have to love those production tax credits!)(3).

The conscious decision to place the story in working-class, Rust Belt America adds an extra layer of socio-political resonance to the film— one that has only grown more salient as time passes. The last two presidential election cycles have placed an acute focus on Pennsylvania, designating it as the political battleground for a divisive culture war.

A once-mighty bastion of American industry, the state has been struggling with the unintended economic fallout of globalization and green energy initiatives in a decades-long fight for survival. There’s a lot worth fighting for: its natural landscape is supremely beautiful, every acre thoroughly soaked in the stories of American nation-building.

Villeneuve faces a formidable challenge in transforming such a setting into an intimidating, formidable one as per his creative prerogatives, ultimately achieving it by evoking his characters’ interior states.

Placing the action in the days following Thanksgiving allows for a natural, autumnal gloominess — a tangible weight to the air — that underlines their desperation with an overwhelming sense of helplessness.

In this context, the setting and the passage of time has added extra dimension to the film’s exploration of the morality of vigilantism and of Jackman’s character of Dover, in particular.

When PRISONERS was released, the “prepper” lifestyle — an involving (some might say obsessive) hobby popular among rural American men that concerns the accumulation and storage of survival supplies like food and weapons in a basement or underground bunker, for use in the event of natural or manmade disaster — was a cultural curiosity; a harmless way for zombie apocalypse enthusiasts to live out their fantasies of defending the homestead from the brain-eating horde.

However, sometime in the past decade, the sentiment has curdled; goaded on by conspiracy theories about “false flag” shooting events designed as a pretext for the eradication of Second Amendment rights (or cabals of political and entertainment industry elites secretly partaking in satanic, pedophilic sex rituals) that harmless desire to protect one’s family in an extreme scenario has evolved into a cancerous, accelerationist activism.

Look no further than this January’s horrific riot at the Capitol, whereby these kinds of people effectively became the zombie horde themselves as they violently invaded the sacred halls of American power to assert their political will against the voting majority.

We’re meant to sympathize with Dover’s plight in PRISONERS, and anyone with children of their own certainly does, but given his self-righteousness and willingness to reduce himself to brutality and dehumanization, it’s not a stretch of the imagination to think his face might have been amongst those storming the Capitol on January 6th, 2021.

All of this is to say that Villeneuve generates a palpable sense of interior and exterior decay throughout the film— a depreciation of natural landscape, economic mobility, moral righteousness, even male virility (albeit in the guise of the impotence Dover first feels in being unable to protect his family and subsequently in the carrying out of torture that corrodes his soul while providing no useful information).

The result is, despite the otherwise idyllic exurban environs, an oppressive and foreboding character that’s superimposed upon the setting— and a firm continuation of Villeneuve’s ability to transform the mundane into a psychospheric waking nightmare.

Though this quality was nothing new to Canadian audiences and the international cinema community, it nonetheless positioned Villeneuve to the American megaplex set as a forceful and supernaturally-assured new voice.

Perhaps his migration (some may say ascent) to the Hollywood studio system was inevitable, but few could have predicted that his voice would only grow more uncompromising in the process. Indeed, his grandiose vision only benefits from the lavish resources to be found behind studio gates, and the prestige of his international background seems to keep executive meddling to a minimum.

This evident reverence comes not from PRISONERS’ success — a splashy Telluride premiere drove positive reviews and plenty of awards chatter but would only yield modest box office receipts — but rather from the undeniable promise of his talent. Look no further than the example of a beautifully-rendered race to the hospital at story’s climax, which displays a burgeoning mastery of kinetic action suffused with poignant characterization and an evocative atmosphere dripping with blood, rain and snow.

A visually and emotionally stunning set piece, it suggests Villeneuve as a studio filmmaker akin to someone like Christopher Nolan: one who can deliver stimulating spectacle heavily suffused with thematic and extra-textual meaning. Indeed, it wouldn’t be a stretch of the imagination, had Warner Brothers decided to continue the DARK KNIGHT series without its creator, they very well might have seen Villeneuve as the heir apparent.

Nevertheless, it’s clear that Warner Brothers now counts him among Nolan, Clint Eastwood, and a select few others, as one of their premiere house filmmakers (the recent HBOMax debacle about moving the studio’s entire 2021 slate to streaming, however, may have made the feeling less mutual, what with the upcoming DUNE — arguably Villeneuve’s biggest film to date — now on the line).

But all of that would lay in the future. An incredibly strong run of films had already begun: one that would make the already-successful first act of his career a mere prelude.


ENEMY (2013)

Since his debut in the American studio system with 2013’s PRISONERS, director Denis Villeneuve has steadily carved out a monolithic space for himself as that rare breed of big budget filmmaker who can effortlessly combine a mastery of visceral spectacle with a superlative storytelling intelligence.

Films like SICARIO (2015), ARRIVAL (2016) and BLADE RUNNER 2049 (2017) firmly foreground themselves in the established visual grammar and relatively-narrow narrative parameters of their respective genres, yet they all resonate with a broader psychological subtext about the bleaker aspects of the human condition.

This hybrid form — referred to by Villeneuve himself as “psychodrama” — is a singular creative trait that unifies his body of work, from his 1994 short debut REW FFW to (assumedly) his upcoming adaptation of DUNE.

While his films are often steeped in a harrowing sense of realism, as in SICARIO, POLYTECHNIQUE (2009) or INCENDIES (2010), Villeneuve’s signature approach arguably finds its most potent application in more surreal, dreamlike works like MAELSTROM.

None of the aforementioned films, however, can hold a candle to the pure, unadulterated nightmare-scape that is his 2013 feature, ENEMY.

Indeed, ENEMY is so soaked in the atmosphere of the subconscious and the act of dreaming that it oftentimes feels like a film that doesn’t actually exist. A subliminal tangle of contradictions and intentional opacity, it is both a last-chance grasp at art house freedom and a retreat from the Hollywood system.

The entirety of its production and release bookends that of PRISONERS’, shooting before that film and released after its completion in a manner that makes it somewhat unclear where to place the film in a chronological exploration of Villeneuve’s wider canon.

It’s almost like a film that blipped into our existence from an alternate universe. It’s not just otherworldly— its unreal.

The circumstances of its making, of course, are much more mundane. Based on the novel “The Double”, by Jóse Saramago, ENEMY was a joint production between Canadian and Spanish film companies, written by Javier Gullón, produced by Miguel A.

Far & Niv Fichman, and shot in Toronto— a city used so often as a Hollywood backlot stand-in for generic urban environments that it just might have been the ultimate Anonymous City had it not been for the Space Needle-esque CN Tower. However, it’s exactly this anonymous quality that lends ENEMY its dreamlike power.

Wikipedia describes the story’s genre as a “surrealist Neo-noir psychological thriller mystery”— a jumble of evocative words that ultimately doesn’t mean anything. Genre only means as much to Villeneuve’s efforts as it can convey the archetypical grammar of our collective subconscious. ENEMY operates more along the lines of allegory or parable, its key story beats strung together by hazy dream logic and sinewy spider silk.

Most people know of Jake Gyllenhaal’s haunted performance for Villeneuve as Detective Loki in PRISONERS, but their fruitful collaboration was actually a byproduct of their work together here. Gyllenhaal delivers dual performances, making arguably one of the biggest challenges an actor could face — acting against oneself — seem as easy and natural as could be.

As the college history professor Adam, he assumes a quiet & meek affectation; easily trod upon by anyone who cares enough to. His identical counterpart, Anthony, is the dark mirror image: a seeker of attention by way of a middling acting career, self-obsessed to the point of narcissicim, and possessed of a mild psychotic streak.

In certain respects, the mechanics of Gyllenhaal’s performance are more interesting than the characters he’s depicting, deftly moving between these opposing personas with little more than minor adjustments— for instance, switching his dominant hand depending on which character he’s currently inhabiting.

In several instances, he’s also effectively improvising with himself, deliberately going off-script in one take in a way that forces him to respond when he switches over.

A mixture of high and low-tech tools allow Gyllenhaal to pursue his ambitious strategy, whether it’s acting opposite a tennis ball on a stick (1) or moving in sync with a motion-controlled camera for the film’s trickier illusions.

While given nowhere near the amount of screen time afforded of Gyllenhaal, ENEMY’s trio of supporting female characters nevertheless provide compelling counterweights to his inwardly-collapsing paranoia. Mélanie Laurent, arguably best known to American audiences for her starring turn in Quentin Tarantino’s INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS (2009), plays Adam’s girlfriend Mary— a distant, cold, and disconnected blonde whose true feelings for him are hard to decipher.

Further deepening ENEMY’s obsession with doubles, Villeneuve casts Sarah Gadon as Anthony’s corresponding significant other, Helen, who is also a direct opposite of Mary. Hers is a platinum shade of blonde, maybe artificial… but there’s nothing fake about her warm, nurturing nature.

Somewhere in the second or third trimester of pregnancy, Helen stands in stark contrast to her counterpart; her strength is a quiet insightfulness that Anthony mistakes as weakness— and a license to walk all over her.

Isabella Rossellini makes a brief, yet memorable, appearance as Adam’s mother, further deepening the central mystery with her coldly pragmatic character who may or may not know what’s really going on with her son.

While his partnership with cinematographer Roger Deakins and the moody, Oscar-nominated photography of PRISONERS is generally regarded as Villeneuve’s point of entry into the digital realm, ENEMY uses his first true experience with the medium as a kind of quick test run.

Captured in 2K resolution on Arri Alexa cameras using Hawk V-Lite 1.3x anamorphic lenses, ENEMY makes an earnest effort to see just how far a digital sensor can be pushed in the pursuit of unforgettable imagery.

Working with cinematographer Nicolas Bolduc, Villeneuve emphasizes the narrative’s singular obsession with duality by exaggerating the contrast between his image’s light and dark values. Shadows and highlights dance along the edge of exposure, with the 2.35:1 frame’s subjects frequently obscured as silhouettes.

Villeneuve and Bolduc, in tandem with careful palette selections by returning production designer Patrice Vermette, drain the image of almost all color, creating a monochromatic look that would approximate black & white if not for the sickly saffron hue that envelopes every exposed pixel.

Highly reminiscent of the intense air pollution that blankets China or India — or a penetrating poison gas — this deliberately-stylized look gives ENEMY a distinct character that further reinforces Villeneuve’s hazy, dreamlike atmosphere. Neither fully warm or fully cool, ENEMY’s amber coating suggests a suspended psychological state caught between the two color temperatures— integration with one’s environment versus alienation from it.

Villeneuve adopts a complementary approach to camera movement, creating the impression of floating detachment via the frequent use of Steadicam setups, butter-smooth dolly work and slow, creeping zooms.

Of course, no discussion of ENEMY’s visual hallmarks would be complete without mention of the spider motif Villeneuve employs throughout. Easily the source of the film’s most disturbing imagery — particularly, the stomach-churning, out-of-nowhere shock of its final moments — the presence of spiders bears no narrative relation to the plot, per se.

Instead, they serve a strictly-metaphorical purpose; they are decorative ornamentation affixed to the structure, infusing the proceedings with an allusive, nightmarish subtext.

Whether it’s the spiders incorporated into the performances at the underground sex club Anthony is seen attending, a dream-state vision of a nude, spider-headed woman walking down a hallway, a smashed window splintering into a cobweb pattern, or a skyscraper-sized long-leg arachnid perched against downtown Toronto, Villeneuve leverages the chilling iconography of the species at every turn.

This approach event extends to the music, composed by Danny Bensi and Saunder Jurriaans and arranged for what sounds to be a string quartet, creating a prickly, spindly sound that evokes the distinctly foreboding creep of eight legs.

One might naturally ask what the artistic purpose is behind the creation of such an unpleasant atmosphere as ENEMY’s. After all, why subject the audience to the ever-present terror of spiders if there’s no apparent reason for them? Those looking for easy answers are bound to be disappointed; Villeneuve’s collaborators are reportedly prohibited from talking about the significance of the film’s spiders (1).

Some have theorized that they represent Adam and Anthony’s weakness relative to their female counterparts, in that the females of the species are bigger and more dominant (1). Writing for Slate, Forrest Wickman presents one of the more intriguing theories, positioning ENEMY as a kind of parable for the insidious invisibility of totalitarian states.

He goes on to elaborate, suggesting spiderwebs as an appropriate metaphor for the tangle of sociopolitical movements that people can’t necessarily see until they’re already hopelessly ensnared within it.

In his observations that totalitarianism is a natural human tendency — a need to control one’s environment that comes from deep within, instead of external factors — Wickman arguably strikes the closest to Villeneuve’s supposed artistic intent. Villeneuve’s clearest comments towards this end convey his desire to plumb the mysterious depths of the subconscious; more specifically, he’s interested in our conscious attempts to avoid repeating the same mistakes, or to subvert our unconscious proclivities towards repetition.

“Sometimes you have compulsions that you can’t control coming from the subconscious”, Villeneuve explains, “they are the dictator inside ourselves”.

In this light, Villeneuve’s thematic signatures position him as the ideal filmmaker for the material; its place within his larger body of work made all the more evident.

This idea of an interior tyranny stemming from one’s own unconscious impulses, externalized as visual stimulus, feeds into Villeneuve’s talent for constructing foreboding cinematic environments. With ENEMY in particular, Villeneuve emphasizes Toronto’s brutalist architecture — anonymizing housing projects and institutional design “efficiencies” — to better reflect the individual’s alienation from contemporary urban life.

The narrative’s focus on two dueling male personas throws the female characters into sharper relief, with Helen in particular servicing Villeneuve’s artistic interest in the unique fortitudes of motherhood. An inherently quiet, passive person, Helen could easily be construed as weak or submissive; indeed, Anthony takes frequent advantage of this misconception to place himself front and center in their relationship.

That she’s woven directly into the film’s shock ending signifies just how integral she is to ENEMY’s narrative and thematic threads. Her seeming passiveness gives her a strategic observational advantage, allowing her to see right through Adam’s feeble attempts to pose as Anthony and seduce her while his twin is off on a romantic getaway with his assumedly oblivious girlfriend.

For her part, Mary is just as astute an observer, foiling Anthony’s deception by noticing an extremely tiny detail that, in his narcissism and hubris, he easily overlooks— the tan line left behind where his wedding ring ought to be. Helen knows the man in her bed pretending to be her husband is not who he says he is, but she sees a chance to assert her own needs and wants by using Anthony’s own deceits against him.

Adam’s conscience won’t let him follow through with his plan, so Helen takes charge and effectively does it for him. It may be a twisted sense of strength, but one could hardly call it weakness.

ENEMY premiered in the Special Presentation section of the 2013 Toronto International Film Festival, going on to a wider release in 2014 handled by the buzzy prestige-indie outfit, A24.

The film was received quite positively by critics, many of whom compared its surreal, dreamlike atmosphere to the work of David Lynch (unconsciously predicting Villeneuve’s future take on DUNE, which Lynch adapted his own version of in 1984).

While it made a relatively modest blip on the radar of American audiences, it made quite a splash on the Canadian awards circuit where Villeneuve was already a perennial presence, ultimately taking five Canadian Screen Awards including Best Motion Picture, Best Supporting Actress (for Gadon’s performance) and Best Director.

While his ascent into the American studio “Big Leagues” was already well underway, ENEMY’s Canadian awards success would serve as a sublime book-end to early successes like MAELSTROM and POLYTECHINQUE— and a fitting farewell to the film industry of his homeland.


SICARIO (2015)

The drug trade figures prominently in contemporary action films for the same reason that war does. The violent, aggressive nature of the arena lends itself to inherently dramatic situations and pulse pounding developments. This multi-billion dollar shadow industry is an unfathomably complex and predatory machine, often reduced to simplistic good-vs-evil morality for the sake of narrative brevity and visceral entertainment.

The DVD bargain bin at Wal-Mart is chock-full of brainless guns-and-glory genre films; thoughtful, meditative films like Steven Soderbergh’s TRAFFIC (2000) are exceedingly rare. Then there are works like director Denis Villeneuve’s SICARIO (2015)— expertly-crafted descents into the bowels of a hell of our own making.

Conceived at the height of Ciudad Juarez’s devastating war against the cartels, SICARIO (the Spanish word for “hitman”) shines a harsh UV light on America’s culpability in the conflict and our subsequent corrosion. The screenplay was written by actor/scribe Taylor Sheridan, who has quickly carved out a reputation for himself as an Aaron Sorkin-type wordsmith in the neo-western genre.

Villeneuve instantly responded to Sheridan’s bleak vision of savagery and bureaucratic corruption, his subsequent involvement elevating the project with his own ascendant momentum. The combination of Sheridan’s terse prose and Villeneuve’s imaginative eye results in a propulsive and devastating final product that digs deep to excavate what little humanity there is to find in such a brutal, inhospitable environment.

Shot in the bone-dry deserts outside Albuquerque, New Mexico on a budget of $30 million, SICARIO pits a small, elite team of American drug enforcement agents against the snake pit that is the Sonora Cartel.

The action takes place mostly in Arizona, but the story is primarily concerned with the thin strip of land that forms the border between Juarez, Mexico and El Paso, TX— the only thing separating the idyllic tidiness of suburban American from a sprawling war zone.

Emily Blunt headlines SICARIO as Kate Macer, an ambitious, hardened FBI agent and the closest thing the film has to a moral center. Blunt delivers a powerhouse performance as a driven individual in constant conflict with her inherent womanhood in a profession defined by aggressive masculine posturing.

Macer stands as a compelling window through which to view this shadowy underworld, a beacon of integrity whose relative inexperience in the field has yet to corrode her idealism.

She compensates for her physical vulnerability with an emotional fortitude, trimming herself of life’s excess fat in pursuit of an almost-monastic devotion to her work.

Her big mistake, of course, is in thinking she’s successfully steeled herself against the ugliness of her world when the fact is she’s wholly unprepared for the evils that await her across the border.

Brought onto a clandestine Department of Defense operation as a kind of observer/consultant after a grisly (and explosive) discovery at a suburban drug den, Macer’s journey through SICARIO is one of world-shattering disillusionment and of literal nausea— Blunt reportedly contracted such a severe case of food poisoning during the Mexico portion of the shoot that she needed a constant IV drip just to get through the day.

Macer’s — and by extension, our — escorts through this veritable hell on earth prove no more reliable than the cartel, possessed of a cynical “whatever-it-takes” philosophy towards their work. They act with men with nothing to lose, because they are. Their souls were lost long ago to this bitter conflict, seemingly as old as time itself.

Though he is identified as Colombian in nationality, Benicio Del Toro’s Alejandro is a man without a country. He may as well be a man without a name or a face, such is his embodiment of the intelligence-world slang term “spook”. Alejandro is as mysterious as he is polished; a deadly assassin with a monastic discipline equal to Macer’s own yet profoundly haunted by a past trauma that SICARIO slowly reveals to its captive audience.

His focus is always forward; his compass pointed due north towards the people responsible for an all-consuming loss. Yet, despite his coldness, he is possessed of a flicker of warmth that manifests itself in an arms-length protectiveness towards Macer. The opposite can be said of Josh Brolin’s Matt Graver, a seemingly-warm and friendly man concealing an icy interior.

A relic of the George W. Bush era, (and in all likelihood, a secret CIA agent) DOD Advisor Graver is a cavalier cowboy in flip flops. He relishes in the brutality of his work, suggesting underlying sociopathic inclinations even as he justifies his actions in the name of the greater good.

He’s emblematic of the moral decay sustained by both the war on drugs and the war on terror, witlessly contributing to the perpetual escalation of conflict in the belief that brute force and domination is enough to subdue an enemy who will cross any line to stay alive.

SICARIO’s supporting cast underscores the swirling vortex of danger surrounding Macer while also affording her a tether to her humanity. Victor Garber is authoritative yet caring as her boss, Dave Jennings. Daniel Kaluuya plays Reggie Wayne, her partner in the field and the closest thing she has to family. A veteran of Iraq, Reggie is compelled to look out for Macer’s well-being as if she were a sister.

Refreshingly, there’s no suggestion of a romantic charge between the two; this allows the story to better focus on Macer’s monastic devotion to her work and the growing conflict therein. Jon Bernthal has a minor role to play in the guise of Ted, a folksy Phoenix cop turned crooked by the cartels.

He’s a signifier of the cartel’s snaking influence within our borders, as well as a very immediate reminder that, as tough as Macer makes herself out to be, she’ll always be at a physical disadvantage against men.

Then there’s Maximilianio Hernandez as Silvio, a member of Mexico’s State Police. Seemingly unconnected to the main storyline, SICARIO gradually weaves Silvio’s arc into the fabric of the plot; he’s presented at first as an average cop and a somewhat-reluctant family man before heading off into the night in his police cruiser to his second job— as a drug mule for the cartels.

While his storyline terminates rather abruptly (indeed, the only conclusion offered here is the haunting absence his family feels in its wake), he’s an important plot device that demonstrates just how deeply the tentacles of the cartels have dug into the civic infrastructure of Mexico.

After their successful first collaboration with PRISONERS, Villeneuve and cinematographer Roger Deakins reunite to bring an effectively ominous flair to SICARIO’s Oscar-nominated look. One shot in particular — a deceptively-simple wide shot of American black ops soldiers marching down into the drug tunnels at sunset— effectively communicates the surgical, yet impressionistic approach that the filmmakers employ throughout.

A perfect summation of story, style, and theme, this moment silhouettes the troops against a thin flare of red-orange sunlight on the horizon as they descend underground, their black shapes dissolving into the black horizon line and effectively disappearing.

Beyond the shot’s literal narrative significance, it also speaks to the core themes that make SICARIO such an unsettlingly resonant experience: a descent into a hellish underworld, the loss of integrity and morality (signified by the silhouettes), and the idea of being swallowed up by a brutal machine much larger than any individual’s comprehension.

To achieve such a perfectly-calibrated shot as this (and many, many others), precision & control understandably becomes the name of the game, with the filmmakers utilizing the crispness of digital to complement their surgical approach to composition.

Shooting in 4K resolution on the Arri Alexa and a set of Zeiss Master Primes, Deakins and Villeneuve imbue the 2.39:1 frame with the hard light of the American southwest without losing fine detail in the process. Interiors often see the windows blown out, for instance, but atmospheric closeups reveal particles of dust floating past. Similarly, dramatic clouds are packed with subtle gradations of shadow.

SICARIO’s tightly-controlled color palette also evokes the burned-out harshness of the characters’ surroundings. Browns, blacks, greys, and various shades of tan & brown dominate the frame, accentuated by punches of red blood or the accented pop of royal blue (seen predominantly in the dress shirt Alejandro wears underneath his suit jacket, or the hard plastic chairs that populate institutional facilities).

Fluorescent lights tend to take on sickly saffron or steely blue hues, while incandescent lanterns glow with a warm amber color. The camerawork reinforces the filmmakers’ sensation of control, with propulsive tracking movements effectively locking the audience in for a relentless ride.

SICARIO’s core cinematographic strength, however, lies in its use of perspective. Each composition is informed by the perspective of said shot’s observer. This can be in a subjective sense, where we’re placed directly into the headspace of Macer or Alejandro, or via the comparatively-objective viewpoint of surveillance drones flying overhead.

SICARIO frequently deploys drones to capture butter-smooth aerials of foreboding desert landscapes (and the hardscrabble patches of civilization within them). The effect is one of “omniscient malevolence”— an uncaring creator looking down in disappointment on his compromised creations (a common sensation in Villeneuve’s work).

At the same time, it also suggests mankind’s quest to conquer the elements, be it the clean, manicured lines of American suburbia or the sprawling chaos of Juarez slums. This idea is also manifest in the adoption of specialty night vision and thermal imaging cameras for the riveting tunnel sequence, allowing Macer and her cohorts to peer into the blackness and gain the tactical advantage.

Other key collaborators, like returning production designer Patrice Vermette and composer Jóhan Jóhannsonn, reinforce the looming danger of SICARIO’s cinematography. Vermette helps Deakins achieve the film’s tightly-controlled color palette while infusing each frame with a tactile grit.

Each scene no doubt posed an intimidating logistical challenge, but one of the production’s most complicated efforts was the building of a full-scale replica of the Juarez border crossing. Though it’s based on real-world architecture, the film amplifies an unintended byproduct of its design— its creation of a contained killing field that entraps Macer and her colleagues.

Their movements impeded by concrete walls and standstill traffic, each car potentially housing a small band of armed marauders, the situation easily becomes a standout set piece that effectively communicates the hidden, unrelenting danger at hand. Jóhannsson does the same (to an even greater degree) with his score.

Working from Villeneuve’s prompt that the score sound like a “a pulse from the desert” — not so much musical in nature but more like an underground threat akin to John Williams’ plodding JAWS theme — Jóhansson crafts a throbbing, propulsive suite of cues that evoke the proverbial “belly of the beast”.

Droning cellos & horns convey a stomach-churning sense of malice, suggesting the drug trade as a labyrinthine machine designed for the express purpose of grinding humanity to a pulp.

At key junctures, Jóhannson deploys an ethereal soprano— a cautionary canary in the coal mine that cuts through the churning sonic machinery, reminding us of our protagonist’s physical fragility within it even as it suggests the possibility of escape. Indeed, Jóhansson’s score makes SICARIO a uniquely transcendent experience, albeit a deeply disquieting one.

It is, arguably, the capstone to the late composer’s relatively brief career.

Aside from its impeccable technical pedigree, this oft-mentioned atmosphere of foreboding and looming danger is perhaps the clearest sign of Villeneuve’s hand. Like POLYTECHNIQUE (2009), the characteristic oppressiveness of his aesthetic is conveyed through claustrophobic means, closing off our periphery via architectural motifs like tunnels and hallways while offering only one direction of movement: forward… towards the gaping maw of the beast.

The aforementioned Juarez border crossing sequence is an excellent example of this, though a more memorable one may be the breathtaking sequence in which Macer follows Graver’s team into an underground labyrinth of smuggling tunnels.

Villeneuve’s adherence to her subjective perspective throughout the film is a core part of this scene’s dread-filled resonance, collapsing our own sense of space and geography to her very narrow view (further complicated by bulky headgear and the lack of light).

The rattle of unseen gunfire echoes and bounces off the dirt walls, becoming an ominous portent of an immediate horror we must confront head-on. The entire sequence is designed to highlight Macer’s unique vulnerabilities within such an oppressively masculine environment even as it seeks to establish her strengths, succeeding in large part because of Villeneuve’s careerlong exploration of gender dynamics from feminine perspectives.

As a female operative in the male-dominated intelligence & counterterrorism field, her experience is one of constant alienation: physically, mentally, sexually, and politically. She’s devoted to the principles of righteousness that animate drug enforcement, not necessarily to the bureaucratic alphabet soup of organizations that constitute it.

Indeed, SICARIO positions Macer’s primary battle as one waged not against the cartels, but against the inhumanity of the CIA, the FBI, and the DOD — the very system that keeps this vicious beast fed.

Towards this end, SICARIO makes a compelling point that many other drug thrillers merely nod to (if they even acknowledge it at all): in adopting its hardline neo-con stance towards total eradication, the war on drugs has effectively turned our intelligence institutions into organized crime syndicates, and their operations into state-sponsored illegality.

If the pursuit of drug enforcement is ultimately a corrosive activity, as SICARIO suggests, then corruption becomes the only way to maintain order — or at least, the illusion of order.

A key narrative development finds Macer discovering that the entire purpose of her presence is a lie; she’s not there to observe and learn, as Graver initially informs her, but rather to stand as an unwitting pawn that gives Graver and his team the operational jurisdiction to pursue their aims across the border.

Instead of working together towards a common good, the various intelligence agencies are using each other to further their own ends. In effect, they are squabbling warlords, having descended into a kind of tribalism enabled by infinite operating budgets. This organized crime conceit becomes clear by film’s end, when Alejandro breaks into Macer’s apartment and forces her (at gunpoint) to sign papers that falsely testify to the legality of their operation.

It may not be the most visual sequence as far as climaxes go, but this development is arguably the most devastating thing that could happen to Macer. It’s a violation of her integrity — the source of her strength. Being forced to betray herself and her ideals is far more damaging than the physical assault she’s routinely threatened with in her line of work.

Bleak though this ending may be, it also offers a shred of optimism: Alejandro leaves her with a cryptic warning — “this is a land of wolves now” — and urges her to quit & move away. He’s effectively saying that she’s not cut out for this life, but what he means is that she’s too good for it. She still has time to save herself from the maw of this twisted machine; there’s still time to reclaim her humanity.

SICARIO would continue the rapid ascendancy of Villeneuve’s profile within the American film industry, grossing $84.9 million in worldwide box office receipts and earning a swath of positive reviews from critics. It would also prove a strong presence within the festival circuit, premiering in competition for the Palme d’Or at Cannes as well as being programmed in the Special Presentations section of the Toronto Film Festival (5).

Several Academy Award nominations would follow, with SICARIO honored for its cinematography, original score, and sound editing. A film as uncompromising as this tends not to escape controversy, however; the mayor of Juarez urged his people to boycott the film, criticizing its inaccurate representation of the city as unreflective of the significant progress he’d made in cleaning up the situation since 2010.

Villeneuve claimed creative license, conceding that while the situation may no longer be completely accurate, the film had nonetheless been conceived at the height of Juarez’s deterioration and was thus a comparatively faithful representation for the purposes of the story. SICARIO’s success would also spawn an unexpected franchise, with Sheridan ultimately positioning his script as the first in a trilogy of neo-westerns focused on the exploits of Alejandro and Graver.

The second of these, SICARIO: DAY OF THE SOLDADO (2018) would see Brolin and Del Toro return… but not Villeneuve. Directed instead by Stefano Sollima, the sequel could not fully replicate the visceral sensation of the original, and subsequent chatter about a third installment seems to have petered out entirely.

Whether the sequel would have fared better had Villeneuve stayed on is open to debate— the role of director is only one small ingredient in the mysterious alchemy that constitutes a given project. Perhaps it’s better this way; SICARIO makes it overwhelmingly clear that Villeneuve had left it all on the field.

He had said everything there was for him to say on this subject, and to repeat it would not do him any favors beyond perhaps an upgrade to a bigger house.

Villeneuve’s immediate future lay not in franchise filmmaking (at least, not yet), but in leveraging his intimidating technical sophistication and weighty artistic voice towards the further exploration of humanity’s struggle against its greatest enemy: itself.


ARRIVAL (2016)

Alien invasions are a routine occurrence in the realm of cinema, as mundane an event as anything else on the day’s news cycle. Most compel us to look upwards in wonder, like Steven Spielberg’s CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (1977), or in horror, like WAR OF THE WORLDS (2005). Very few, however, compel us to look inward— to reflect and marvel on the cosmic nature of our own composition.

If we’re made of starstuff, as Carl Sagan famously once said, we should celebrate that. We shouldn’t recoil at the unfathomable infinity of the larger universe and the other intelligences that may (and by all mathematical reasoning, should) inhabit it. Director Denis Villeneuve’s feature, ARRIVAL (2016), shares this sentiment— a somber celebration of our humanity as it stands on the precipice of profound change and becomes part of a larger cosmic tapestry of life.

Rivaled perhaps only by David Fincher in terms of the nihilistic quality he brings to his work, Villeneuve crafts ARRIVAL as a surprisingly hopeful and humanistic film. His vision of mankind’s  first contact with an alien race is darkly beautiful and emotionally elegant, calibrated towards realism and scientific integrity.

The film is based on a short story by Ted Chiang titled “Story Of Your Life”, published in 1998 and subsequently adapted by screenwriter Eric Heisserer. After pitching his project around Hollywood to no interest for many years, Heisserer finally found a creative partner in director Shawn Levy’s production company 21 Laps (5).

Levy and fellow producers Dan Levine, Aaron Ryder, and David Linde brought the project to Villeneuve’s attention during the production of PRISONERS, steadily working to ready it for cameras while he was shooting other projects like SICARIO (2015).

By the time production commenced in Montreal, the producers found themselves with one of the hottest filmmakers in the world calling the shots— an artist working at the peak of his powers to steer their ambitious sci-fi project into uncharted territory: the awards circuit.

ARRIVAL begins not with a bang, but with a beep— the telltale chirp of a smartphone push notification alerting us to the latest developments in a never-ending cycle of breaking news. It has become a routine part of everyday life, only this is a day unlike any other in history… the day that everything will change.

A dozen or so egg-shaped orbs of unknown extraterrestrial origin have inexplicably materialized over seemingly-random locations throughout the globe, hovering silently about thirty feet above the surface.

While civilians take refuge in their homes and television screens, the governments of the world begin coordinating the intimidating — perhaps even impossible — task of establishing contact. The question is clear — “what is your purpose on earth?”— but the manner in which to actually communicate this query is a total mystery.

Enter Louise Banks, a linguistics expert and college professor who once worked as a Farsi translator for the military. As played by six-time Oscar nominee Amy Adams, Louise is top of her field, possessed of a supernatural gift for language and its varied styles and constructions across cultures.She is also haunted, we’re led to believe, by the tragic loss of a child— an explanation perhaps for her withdrawn, melancholic demeanor.

Shortly after the egg-shaped alien crafts materialize, she’s pulled away from the world of academia by the humorless, authoritative Colonel Weber (Forest Whitaker) and brought to a hastily-erected site in Montana to assist his team in establishing contact with the heptapods: their term for the seven-legged extraterrestrials found inside the pods, which resemble an octopus and elephant mashed together.

Her partner in this mission is Jeremy Renner’s Ian Donnelly, a mild-mannered theoretical physicist who is uniquely suited to helping her make sense of the heptapod’s cryptic, nonlinear manner of communication.

While the larger question of their intentions for Earth invites a suffocating layer of dread over the operation, Banks faces more immediate (and unexpected) challenges from the human side of the equation; when she isn’t being bossed around by Col.

Weber, she’s fielding the impatience of MIchael Stuhlbarg’s Agent Halpern, the stuffed shirt running the communications center, or the aggressions of China’s General Shang, played by Tzi Ma as a reactive hardliner who is ultimately humbled by Banks’ efforts.

Indeed, ARRIVAL’s plot isn’t so much concerned with humanity’s dialogue with an alien race as it is with communication between members of our own kind; with our unique duality that tempers our intelligence and ambition with an inherent self-destructiveness.

A larger question looms over the proceedings; one that gives ARRIVAL its emotional center and allows it to transcend the plot’s genre trappings. In a way, it’s a question posed by the heptapods to Louise, slowly materializing as she learns the nonlinear structure of their language and begins to perceive the world around her — and time — differently.

We’re led to believe that Louise’s flashbacks to her lost child are just that: flashbacks. Without giving too much away, the film eventually reveals this to be an intentional misdirection. Just like Louise, we are assuming that the continuum of time is linear.

When the film pauses for these moments of melancholy reverie, we interpret Louise’s withdrawn expression as grief because we’ve been conditioned by the conventional storytelling purpose of the flashback device (as well as our own linear presumption of time).

In actuality, her expression is one of mystery and wonder — she doesn’t know who this child is. She doesn’t realize this child is yet to be born. Her ultimate realization as to the true nature of these “memories” puts her on the path to achieving her emotional needs with a compelling prompt: is love always worth pursuing, even if you knew it would end in heartbreak?

That the film’s answer is a resounding “yes” is the key to understanding the beauty and luminance of our inherent humanity— even in the context of its revelation that our technological advances pale in comparison to those of the other intelligences that populate the stars.

ARRIVAL is committed to a realistic depiction of how the discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence might play out on a global scale. Indeed, judging by the way various countries handled the coronavirus outbreak, the only unrealistic aspect is the speed and relative ease in which the governments of the world begin working together to establish contact.

The way in which Villeneuve stages the breaking news of their emergence is stomach-churning in its parallels to the first reports of a plane hitting the World Trade Center on 9/11. He emphasizes the mundane to begin with, foregoing the spectacle-favored eyewitness perspective for that of a teacher so wrapped up in the day’s work that she doesn’t notice all the people glued to a TV in the background.

Her classroom is much emptier than usual — the first sign that something is amiss — but she plods on with the lesson until cell phones begin to chirp with push notifications, each high-pitched “ping” adding to the growing atmosphere of dread.

The global fallout of the heptapods’ arrival also presents a compelling conundrum for the film to explore, arguing how the exceptionality of humanity — our passions & our ambitions — can weaponize itself against us in times of extreme strife.

Our individual interests are mistaken for our collective ones, subsequently causing us to rapidly divide into smaller, squabbling camps that make for easier targets for conquest by an outside intelligence.

ARRIVAL’s harrowing realism stems from an impeccable technical pedigree; a result of both Villeneuve’s artistic tastes as well as the intimidating skill sets of his collaborators. He enlists the services of Bradford Young, a particularly bright rising star in the cinematography trade sought after by A-list filmmakers for his unique ability to coax fine detail out of the lowest toes of exposure.

Digital Arri Alexa XST cameras were used to capture the film at 2K resolution in the 2.35:1 aspect ratio, the format’s proclivity toward cold, hard edges dampened by the use of a special set of Zeiss Ultra Prime lenses with recoated glass that reduces contrast.

Drawing inspiration from the stark monochromatic photography of Scandinavian artist Martin Hoagland, Young fulfills Villeneuve’s desire for an image rooted in a natural, evocative realism.

The film’s cinematography walks something of a tightrope in its embrace of a dim, drab aesthetic without feeling too gloomy or too dark. The lower contrast harmonizes with a shallow depth of field and a cold, desaturated color palette to establish a dreamlike aura.

When they’re not balancing the pop of orange hazmat suits against gray daylight, Villeneuve & Young lean into the harsh blue of the Montana facility’s utility lights or the warm ambers of incandescents.

The film further reinforces a sense of dreamlike memory by employing handheld camerawork to render Louise’s visions of her daughter, while Villeneuve’s formalistic inclinations — creeping dollies, foreboding aerials, and deliberate tracking movements — tether the bulk of the story to Earth.

Frequent production designer Patrice Vermette helps Villeneuve to transform the shooting site in Saint-Fabian, Quebec into the spacious vistas of Montana, while constructing a highly original and imaginative depiction of an intelligent alien race.

Nearly every aspect of the heptapods and their technology defies the well-trod iconography of aliens in pop culture; there’s no invisible tractor beam, no spinning saucers with a blinking array of blinding lights, and definitely no little green men.

Louise and her team have to enter the tall, egg-shaped craft via the humble scissor lift, only to find a small stone chamber where they can dialogue with the heptapods behind a kind of invisible barrier.

Vermette’s wife, the Montreal-based artist Martin Bertrand, was brought in to design the circular, inky nature of the heptapod’s “written” language, the versatility of which enabled Villeneuve and Heisserer to subsequently develop over one hundred distinct words and phrases— a fully-realized alien language that conveys meaning through imagery rather than script.

Returning editor Joe Walker draws a straight line from these logograms to the medium of cinema, which works in the same way. The film’s nonlinear succession of imagery and the obfuscation of chronology work to give the audience an emotional (if not technical) understanding of the story; none of us can relate to making contact with aliens, but we can relate to a mother’s love for her child as an experience that’s equally awe-inspiring and transcendent.

Walker infuses the connective tissue of ARRIVAL’s story with a natural, unforced poignancy, evidenced most immediately in scenes with Louise’s daughter— snippets of happy and painful memories coated with a veneer of melancholy via their pairing with the contemporary classical maestro Max Richter’s gorgeous string composition, “On The Nature of Daylight”.

Indeed, the cue is used throughout ARRIVAL to striking effect, illustrating the multitude of emotions that a single piece can convey by bookending the film, evoking feelings of heartache and grief at the opening while closing with the sensation of a delicate hope— not that the ultimate outcome of Louise’s motherhood might change, but that the journey ahead will make the whole thing worthwhile.

While its inclusion reinforces the trembling emotional tenor of the story, it would also impose a rather unwelcome side effect to the overall success of Villeneuve and composer Jóhann Jóhannsson’s final collaboration.

While the film’s score was highly regarded as some of the best work of his career, the heavy prominence of Richter’s pre-existing track would cause the Academy to bar Jóhannsson from Oscar consideration.

Because Richter’s track was also cinematic and orchestral in nature, they reasoned, they didn’t want voters to confuse that as Jóhannsson’s work either. In two short years, Jóhannsson would unexpectedly pass away; that the eligibility criteria would disqualify a major work from one of the medium’s most innovative and exciting composers seems, in retrospect, a significant bureaucratic blunder.

For what it’s worth, we still have a profoundly moving film that sails on the strength of its original score: a mixture of strings and low, ominous textures punctuated by a haunting vocal-adjacent synth element that sounds not unlike an alien singing to itself as it coasts through the stars.

ARRIVAL possesses dramatic and thematic elements that would easily attract any major filmmaker, and the imagination reels at the possibilities of how others might have interpreted Heisserer’s prose. As it stands, however, the film is uniquely suited to Villeneuve’s particular sensibilities.

It arguably appeals most immediately in its positioning as Louise as the central figure— a ready-made mold into which Villeneuve can inject his longtime artistic curiosity about feminine strength and matriarchal power.

She possesses an intimidating intellect and an almost supernatural grasp of the mechanics of language across a variety of cultures; this gives her an unparalleled authority at the Montana site, effectively diminishing that of her military supervisors.

For all their bluster and aggressiveness, they ultimately crumple when up against the wall that is Louise’s desire to execute her mission. Like Emily Blunt’s character in SICARIO, Louise seems to live a monastic, solitary life that revolves entirely around her job.

We’re initially led, of course, to believe her isolation is unintended; a byproduct of personal tragedy. Ultimately, her loneliness is not so much born of loss as it is a state of quiet anticipation… of waiting for her life to really begin.

She’s not a mother yet, but because ARRIVAL implies the dimension of time as circular or non-linear rather than an arrow, she has, in a way, always been a mother. Her entire life has been an unconscious effort to get to this point, arranging all the elements of her existence just so in anticipation of her maternal destiny.

This idea does not reduce her, however— it reinforces and amplifies the fullness of her individuality and humanity. Speaking as a relatively new parent, the act of raising a child doesn’t necessarily render one’s self to one-sided subservience.

Rather, it’s a bit like gaining the ability to see a new color that’s never existed before; the heart opens up to wield a love that might have previously seemed unimaginable, every day subsequently filling up with a constant marveling at the wonders of creation. Villeneuve clearly knows the feeling, allowing all of us to share in the sensation via Louise’s unconventional journey to motherhood.

For all its foreboding atmospherics and undercurrents of dread, ARRIVAL finds Villeneuve at his most optimistic— ready to embrace the promise and the potential of our humanity as something special in a universe otherwise peppered with intelligent life.

ARRIVAL marks Villeneuve’s largest success story to date— at least since he arrived stateside. After a prestigious premiere at the Venice Film Festival, the film would earn high marks from critics and $203 million in worldwide box office receipts.

It would end its awards season run with no less than eight Oscar nominations, including nods for Best Picture, Director, Cinematography, Adapted Screenplay, and one win: Best Sound Editing. Perhaps more important than the victory of a gold statue, ARRIVAL would make long-overdue Oscar history with its nomination for cinematography, making Young the first African-American director of photography to receive the honor.

Villeneuve’s ascent to the forefront of the American film industry was now fortified, built atop a solid foundation of award-winning and uncompromising work. The road ahead would take him to the precarious land of franchise filmmaking, with all its lucrative potential as well as the high risk of subservience to the demands of bottom-line-minded conglomerates.

ARRIVAL, then, becomes a kind of last gasp of independent purity; the true end of an era. Villeneuve would perhaps be better suited than anyone to retain his artistic identity under these anonymizing conditions, but past performance is no guarantee of future success.


BLADE RUNNER 2049 (2017)

When these words appeared at the start of Ridley Scott’s BLADE RUNNER in 1982, the cyberpunk dystopia that followed could not have seemed more alien to an audience that had just escaped the disco era by the skin of its teeth.

Set forty years into the future, its neon-choked, acid-rain-soaked vision of a labyrinthine cityscape populated by flying cars, giant video billboards and bio-engineered humanoids was a breathtaking technological achievement that captured the imagination of a generation.

It’s amusing, then, to stand on the other side of the November 2019 dateline and compare Scott’s futuristic extrapolations to the LA that actually exists. Most of the city still looks as it did then, with maybe a handful of the densest pockets of Koreatown actually resembling the megalopolis that Scott envisioned.

Nevertheless, a myriad of think-pieces were inevitably published, detailing the various ways in which BLADE RUNNER’s 2019 has (and hasn’t) borne out against our own.

When it comes to BLADE RUNNER 2049, the long-awaited sequel directed by Denis Villeneuve and released in 2017, we didn’t have to wait several decades to pass before the world reflected its inhospitable future.

We only had to wait until September 9, 2020, when a series of devastating wildfires converged into a singular, gigantic smoke plume that blotted out the sun over San Francisco.

In a year that had already seen its fair share of apocalyptic threats from coronaviruses and murder hornets alike, this was a day that stood out as a particularly dreadful harbinger of our 21st century horizons.

Residents of the Bay Area woke up to thick, intensely orange skies (down in Los Angeles, meanwhile, our skies were a lighter but no less dread-inducing shade of saffron); comparisons were quickly drawn to an identical sight from BLADE RUNNER 2049, wherein the ruins of Las Vegas are barely visible through an impenetrable orange veil of ash and dust.

On this day — The Day That The Sun Didn’t Rise — the consequences of runaway climate change became frighteningly immediate.

The nightmare future of BLADE RUNNER was here.

Though BLADE RUNNER was not necessarily regarded as a success story upon its original release, the subsequent decades have only seen the property further entrench itself within pop culture. Whereas most sequels in our contemporary IP-obsessed era are not just greenlit before a first film is released but baked in to its narrative fabric like a foregone conclusion, the road to BLADE RUNNER 2049 was long & arduous… with no guarantee of a safe destination.

Talk of a sequel didn’t even begin until the early 1990’s, when the release of Scott’s Director’s Cut prompted BLADE RUNNER’s critical reappraisal from an ambitious dud to a major touchstone of the genre. Licensing issues quickly killed any momentum, grounding any serious talk of a sequel until the 2010’s.

This is when Alcon Entertainment, via producers Andrew A. Kosove and Broderick Johnson, purchased the property from its owner, Bud Yorkin, producer of the original film. In their efforts to realize a new story, they turned to Scott and screenwriter Hampton Fancher— the original architects of BLADE RUNNER’s now-iconic dystopia.

For his part, Scott had long harbored an ambition to make a second film, and he dived into the project with an eager enthusiasm. He was in a peculiar phase of his career, in which an artist who by all rights should have been enjoying the easygoing charms of retirement was consumed with revisiting and expanding the great triumphs of his early career.

He had already been wading through a total reinvention of the ALIEN universe, having reconfigured a conventional prequel into 2012’s mythos-exploding PROMETHEUS. For several years, he worked on this new BLADE RUNNER with Fancher and co-screenwriter Michael Green, while simultaneously developing a follow-up to PROMETHEUS.

As fate would have it, the latter would force his ultimate departure from the director’s chair on the former; he rightly couldn’t shoot ALIEN: COVENANT (2017) at the same time as BLADE RUNNER 2049 (3). The best course of action, it seemed, would be to resign as director and stay on as executive producer, where he could still exert a huge degree of creative control— including the hiring of his replacement.

Enter: Villeneuve, still riding high off a string of high-profile successes following his transition from Canadian arthouse cinema to American studio pictures. Easily one of the most sought-after filmmakers in the industry, he already had several personal connections to the project.

Beyond his deep affection and reverence for the BLADE RUNNER property, he also had fostered a fruitful working relationship with Kosove and Broderick on PRISONERS (2013, their previous collaboration at Alcon. With Villeneuve attached, it must have seemed like a can’t-lose proposition to all involved… except, maybe, to Villeneuve himself.

The filmmaker was arguably too reverent, feeling a great intimidation at taking on such a gigantic property; soaked through with a fear that his inaugural foray into big-budget franchise film making would do irreparable damage to the original film’s legacy. Rather than let himself be paralyzed with doubt, he embraced his trepidation as an opportunity to really examine the underlying thematic conceits that made BLADE RUNNER so resonant.

The final result would be an intellectual powerhouse of a sequel, possessed of a nature both soulful and cerebral. Though it may not have received the kind of reception the filmmakers anticipated, BLADE RUNNER 2049 would nonetheless prove itself as a more than worthy successor to Scott’s original vision while mapping out several intriguing pathways for future installments.

Though BLADE RUNNER 2049 takes place thirty years from now, its story begins just a few days prior to this writing— June 10, 2021. This is the day that a child was born of a replicant, a biologically engineered humanoid created to serve at the pleasure of mankind.

Though replicants are imbued with a variety of special abilities pertinent to their respective purposes, there is one thing they cannot do: procreate. This child, born to a replicant refugee named Rachael and Rick Deckard, a hard-boiled replicant hunter turned rogue, should not physically exist; that it does poses a monumental question that threatens to destroy the fragile peace between mankind and its creations.

Naturally, the identity of the child was hidden away — as was the child itself — for fear that news of its existence would, as one character puts it, “break the world”. Twenty-eight years later, the child’s existence is finally discovered by K, a replicant tasked by the LAPD with hunting and dispatching his own kind.

In his first performance headlining a major studio franchise, Ryan Gosling proves inspired casting as K, channeling his understated, fragile physicality into a convincingly emotionless persona.

This persona, however, is only a facade, concealing a roiling mix of unexpected and overwhelming emotions that begin when he dispatches Sapper Morton (Dave Bautista), a replicant living in exile as a humble protein farmer. In the course of wrapping up the operation, he discovers the skeletal remains of Rachael, buried deep underneath a solitary dead tree on the property.

When he brings the bones back to LAPD headquarters for further analysis, he and his tough-skinned superior Lt. Joshi (Robin Wright) are able to conclude that this female mystery replicant had done something impossible: she had given birth.

K subsequently embarks on a sprawling investigation that takes him from the brutalistic monoliths of Los Angeles, to the garbage-strewn wasteland of San Diego, and finally to the ash-choked ruins of Las Vegas. All the while, a steady accumulation of clues conspire to incept him with a forbidden idea: that the mystery child is none other than himself.

The truth, however, is not so black and white, and what initially presents itself as the latest embodiment of the well-worn “chosen one” trope splinters into a complex web of surprising revelations and elusive truths that can only be unspun by one man: Rick Deckard, the original Blade Runner.

Reprising the last of his three iconic 80’s characters (the other two being Han Solo and Indiana Jones, of course), Harrison Ford doesn’t have to stretch much in portraying a grizzled, grumpy recluse haunted by loss and regret. He’s essentially been playing a variation on the same character for years, and though his costume consists of some trousers and an old t-shirt he may well have had already laying around the house, his exhibition of Deckard’s evolution is surprisingly nuanced.

While the original BLADE RUNNER consumed itself with the question of whether or not Deckard himself was a replicant, this iteration of the character simply doesn’t have the energy to care; he’s too preoccupied with concealing the identity of his child— a mission that comes at the expense of nuclear fatherhood or anything resembling a traditional family life.

Though BLADE RUNNER 2049 centers on an “awakening” as experienced by K, it’s emotional core lies in the vindication of Deckard’s sacrifice and his subsequent reunion with the child he never knew; the offspring of the only love he’s ever known.

The twin figureheads of K and Deckard anchor a compelling collection of supporting characters, each of whom further expands and deepen the rich BLADE RUNNER mythos. In addition to the aforementioned Wright and Bautista, BLADE RUNNER 2049 boasts the talents of performers like Jared Leto, Ana de Armas, Mackenzie Davis, and Sylvia Hoeks (among many, many others).

As Niander Wallace, Leto assumes the “deluded creator with a God complex” archetype previously filled by BLADE RUNNER’s Tyrell. Leto draws inspiration from several unnamed “friends in tech”  for his performance as the young genius industrialist who saved humanity from starvation by inventing a new food source (and made billions for his trouble).

Shades of Elon Musk are present in Wallace’s unique megalomania, although his impact on the film is not so grand as his demeanor might suggest.

The character, reportedly intended for David Bowie before his death, is blind; reliant upon a floating swarm of bee-like drones that can see for him by delivering an image signal to a Bluetooth-like device that fits over his ear and ostensibly connects to an implant in his brain. True to his reputation as an intensely-devoted disciple of Method acting, Leto wore opaque lenses that actually blinded him, forcing a small band of assistants to shepherd him about the set throughout the entirety.

Unfortunately, this is about as compelling as the character of Niander Wallace gets, who is easily overshadowed by his female co-stars. His assistant – a dedicated replicant named Luv — is a far more immediate threat.

Despite her impeccable manner of dress and professional stoicism, Luv is a brutal fighting machine in her own right, made all the more compelling by a superior tactical intelligence that actress Sylvia Hoeks tempers with the stunted emotional IQ of a child.

There’s almost a kind of beautiful purity to the way she dispatches her opponents, almost always done in the most dispassionate, efficient manner possible. Ana de Armas evidences a gentler kind of loyalty as the ethereal Joi, an artificially intelligent hologram that serves as K’s only friend. She’s a fantasy; a constantly-glitching, sometimes-translucent projection of pixels in three dimensions, but in many ways, she is the film’s most humanistic presence.

Critics praised de Armas’ performance while decrying her character’s subservience to K, and to a degree, they make a fair point. Joi is, essentially, a highly-evolved Siri; a digital assistant and companion who provides beauty and warmth in a cold, brutal world.

Though the nature of her role is subservient to K, she is rather active in provoking his own emotional growth, exhibiting a burning curiosity about the world around her.

In her own way, she becomes an integral character in terms of opening up the scale of the BLADE RUNNER universe— by inviting a hardscrabble “pleasure model” replicant named Mariette (Mackenzie Davis) into K’s home in a bid to simulate a physical connection with him, she unwittingly introduces K to a wider network of rebel replicants who are secretly working in the shadows to bring freedom to their kind.

A few other familiar faces pop up throughout BLADE RUNNER 2049’s sprawling 164 minute runtime, both from the original film as well as Villeneuve’s repertory of collaborators.

Of the latter, David Dastmalchian — the unsettling child abductor from PRISONERS — appears in a small role as an LAPD forensics analyst named Coco.

Edward James Olmos reprises the role of Gaff, Deckard’s LAPD friend/rival from the first BLADE RUNNER, turning up in a single but consequential scene that sees the enigmatic maker of unicorn origami divulge a key piece of 2049’s puzzle. Finally, (and: major spoilers) Sean Young’s Rachael appears in a manifestation that’s become very common in contemporary sequel/reboots (coined as “legacyquels” by the writer and critic Matt Singer).

Deployed for a scene in which Wallace means to break Deckard down and reveal the identity of the child, Young’s Rachael strides in looking just as she did in 1982 (or 2019, if you’re going by the BLADE RUNNER timeline).

Whereas recent manifestations of this trend use CGI to de-age older actors (like Robert De Niro in Martin Scorsese’s THE IRISHMAN) or resurrect the dead entirely (a la Peter Cushing “reprising” his famous role of Grand Moff Tarkin in Gareth Edward’s ROGUE ONE), BLADE RUNNER 2049’s is a rather fitting variation from a thematic standpoint.

That this iteration of Rachael — created by grafting a CGI performance onto an age-appropriate body double and a separate soundalike that were nonetheless counseled by Young herself — doesn’t pass muster as the real deal is the whole point. For all Wallace’s advances in replicant technology, his “resurrection” of Rachael resides firmly in the uncanny valley, causing Deckard (and us, by extension) to recoil at this cynical appeal to his nostalgia.

Though the film is set, naturally, in Los Angeles, production took place on sound stages and in carefully-chosen locales throughout Budapest. The production team benefited from the generous 25% tax rebate offered by the local government, as well as Scott’s familiarity with local crews and shooting infrastructure, altogether making for a relatively uneventful shoot that was a galaxy away from the notoriously troubled production of the original.

With the added advantage of computer-generated visual effects, BLADE RUNNER 2049 dramatically expands the scale of Scott’s cyberpunk LA, exhibiting a truly monolithic megalopolis whose city limits have metastasized to absorb San Diego into a district zoned entirely for the processing of its trash. A lot has happened in the thirty years since Deckard tangled with Roy Batty, including an oft-reference blackout that happened shortly afterwards.

Far more than a simple loss of power, this was The Blackout: a deliberate technological apocalypse engineered by renegade replicants, resulting in the detonation of an EMP detonated over LA and the total erasure of any information that wasn’t written down on paper.

As conceived by production designer Dennis Gassner, this iteration of LA retains much of its 1980’s-styled future aesthetic, right down to neon billboards with signage for Pan Am and Atari— real-world companies that have since gone extinct.

Despite the sleek towers of downtown, the city was already fairly decrepit in 2019, and 2049 shows just how far the cityscape has continued to decay. On the ground level, everything is broken down, dirty, corroded by decades of acid rain & snow, and sprinkled in layers of ash.

Gassner’s imaginative and meticulously-detailed work provides no shortage of dystopian eye candy for returning cinematographer Roger Deakins to train his camera on. Indeed Deakins’ Oscar-winning work here has the effect of towering over that of his celebrated colleagues (Villeneuve included)— no doubt a byproduct of his being given complete creative control over the film’s technical aspects by his director.

For example, he reportedly rejected the line producer’s request to shoot with nine cameras instead of one, foregoing the idea’s time-saving advantages because of his belief that multicam shoots result in “sloppy camerawork”.

BLADE RUNNER 2049 seems to possess a visceral weight that other effects-laden sci-fi films do not, likely because of Villeneuve and Deakins’ insistence on capturing as much of the film in-camera as possible.

As such, green screens were minimally employed, allowing for Deakins’ evocative, neon-infused lighting designs to truly inhabit the expansive sets and dramatically set-dressed locations that surrounded the actors.

To embrace the use of flimsy CGI set replacement would have been to rob the audience of some truly inspired lighting approaches, arguably best showcased in the set for Wallace’s monolithic ziggurat— a moody, seductive cocoon of ambient amber light and stark shapes punctuated by a shimmering effect on the walls that’s achieved by essentially blasting large lights through a water tank.

BLADE RUNNER 2049 was shot digitally, employing an Arri Alexa XT Studio camera that Deakins preferred to keep perpetually mounted on a crane arm so as to more quickly achieve Villeneuve’s stately, sweeping shot list.

Because the finished film would be available both in the conventional theatrical format as well as IMAX, the filmmakers toyed with the idea of using a large format camera like the Alexa 65, they ultimately preferred the “grainier” quality of the XT’s comparatively smaller sensor.

Faced with varying aspect ratios for their separate deliverables, Villeneuve and Deakins split the difference by shooting open gate— capturing an image with the full sensor while framing for the 2.40:1 theatrical master and the taller IMAX format.

A set of Zeiss Master Prime lenses give the image a premium sort of clarity that cuts through the heavy atmospherics of BLADE RUNNER’s heavily-corroded future.

Indeed, “atmospheric” is arguably the most succinct way that one could describe the film’s aesthetic, being comprised of enigmatic silhouettes, cold rain, bitter snow flurries, and the diffuse glow of neon that trades on a compelling blue/pink dichotomy.

Villeneuve and Deakins further expand on Scott’s iconic aesthetic with the subtle adoption of cool daylight-balanced fluorescents in spaces like LAPD headquarters and K’s box apartment, suggesting how a society might adapt to achieve necessary UV exposure/Vitamin D in a world where pollution blots out the sun.

Considering the significant cultural cache of Vangelis’ score for the original BLADE RUNNER, Villeneuve’s sequel faces a daunting challenge in having to balance an aesthetic adherence to what came before while fashioning something new.

His original choice for composer — frequent collaborator Johán Johánsson — fell too heavily on the side of the latter, forcing him and his producers to find a replacement that held truer to Vangelis’ established sound.

The idea of replicating somebody else’s work might seem beneath the stature of a highly regarded and in-demand composer like Hans Zimmer, but the iconic maestro always understands the assignment. Working together with Benjamin Wallfisch, he manages to strike the right balance between fealty to Vangelis’ original themes and a pulsing assertion of its own identity.

Throbbing percussion and eerie synth textures relentlessly propel K forward through the central mystery, amplifying our growing unease while evoking the inhospitality of the landscape. Ethereal piano clinks add a touch of the whimsical, offering up the possibility of wonder and vulnerability as K taps into an innate emotionality he had once thought to be impossible.

A key aspect of the score’s sonic identity is an aggressive “vrooming” texture that’s not unlike the revving of a motorcycle— a truly inspired contribution to the BLADE RUNNER aesthetic that was reportedly achieved by sampling a male choir and piping it through a series of electronic filters to approximate the desired mechanical quality.

Villeneuve further expands BLADE RUNNER’s musical character by slotting in a handful of needle drops unified by their mid century big-band sound; artists like Frank Sinatra and Elvis are used to salient effect in the Vegas sequences as sophisticated ghosts from a glamorous past, reinforcing the idea of this ash-choked future as a new kind of Dark Age.

Though Villeneuve is playing in a massive sandbox that he did not create, his core artistic signatures find themselves right at home in Scott’s dystopia.

His ability to conjure an overwhelmingly foreboding atmosphere is arguably his greatest asset in this regard, evidenced by numerous aerials that soar over devastated wastelands, endless fields of solar arrays, and towering structures whose architectural details are obscured and abstracted through varying degrees of air pollution.

He paints a vivid picture of a climate-ravaged future, complete with the extinction of all animals and the widespread adoption of masks among the populace— an image that takes on a particularly chilling air in light of the coronavirus pandemic that would soon send all of us (well, most of us) under their protective cover.

Also indicative of Villeneuve’s stamp is the increased prominence of women in this iteration of BLADE RUNNER. Previous films like POLYTECHNIQUE, INCENDIES and SICARIO explored the idea of asserting feminine strength in a brutalizing environment. This use of the word “strength” is something of a misnomer, and a contentious one at that.

Because the established convention for male protagonists is the achievement of self-actualization by direct, tangible action and the use of force, many filmmakers mistake the idea of a “strong” female protagonist as having similar qualities.

In short, they must be tough-as-nails badasses (just as Hoeks’ Luv is). This patronizing, reductive view might have its place in a certain subset of action cinema, but Villeneuve is far more interested in the feminine characteristics that serve as their own kind of strength; traits like compassion & emotional expression that require far more in the way of courage than pointing a gun at another man.

With Villeneuve’s filmography in particular, this kind of strength asserts itself through motherhood.

This is also true of BLADE RUNNER 2049, which contains a triumvirate of mother figures. Rachael’s importance to the plot (despite her absence) takes on a Madonna quality— and I’m not talking about the pop icon.

That a replicant who cannot procreate by design manages to somehow conceive a child draws heavy comparisons to the birth of Jesus Christ and the Christian dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

Rachael, then, becomes a new kind of Holy Mother for this 21st-century dystopia, ward to a sickly little girl who will one day grow up to become a messiah figure for her kind. As K’s superior, Wright’s Lt. Joshi also possesses a maternal quality in her balancing of stoic authority with genuine care for K; though she’s the farthest thing from a softie, she allows a disgraced K a generous head start to flee the city before sending her men after him.

The third maternal figure bears the least amount of weight on the plot (while clearly laying the foundation for the plot of a hypothetical third installment), appearing briefly as the eye-patched leader of the replicant resistance. She’s the one who divulges the cold, hard truth to K about his supposed origins, simultaneously shattering his newfound sense of hope while imbuing him with the resolve to keep fighting.

The characters of Joi & Mariette, by virtue of their romantic companionship with K, are emblematic of this dystopia’s rampant objectification of women— their existence as holographic software and a bioengineered life form, respectively, leads to a presumed absence of humanity by their male counterparts and their subsequent reduction into empty vessels of sexual gratification.

That Villeneuve makes a pronounced effort to exhibit their interior lives (Joi as a Pinocchio-type who just wants to be a real girl, and Mariette as a resolute activist working for the liberation of her people) makes for a strong counterargument to critics who decried BLADE RUNNER 2049’s supposed subjugation of the fairer sex.

Make no mistake: these characters are moving through an inhospitable world that exaggerates the misogyny of our own, but this is not a reflection of Villeneuve and company’s personal attitudes towards women.

Indeed, the narrative displays a wide spectrum of femininity that is nevertheless united by the strength that comes from inner resilience and the ceaseless hope that a better future lies ahead if they are willing to work toward it.

Just as BLADE RUNNER 2049 successfully captures the beat-down spirit of the original, so too does it replicate the bittersweet reception that unnecessarily prolonged the road to classic status.

Despite possessing all the conventional hallmarks of a hit — a buzzy director, an iconic movie star, splashy visuals, a generous marketing budget that ensured the poster’s presence pretty much everywhere, and a story rooted in a well-known property with a dedicated fan base, — the sequel failed to spark the box office like the producers might have hoped.

It wasn’t an abject failure, but $260 million in worldwide ticket sales doesn’t fully justify the approximately $185 million the film cost to make.

Armchair analysts jumped at the opportunity to argue over a supposed fatal flaw that did Villeneuve’s film in— Ryan Gosling wasn’t a big-enough star to open a picture; the BLADE RUNNER franchise wasn’t as beloved as the producers assumed; the film, at 2 hours 45 minutes, simply was far too long (if only they knew that editor Joe Walker’s earlier four-hour cut of the film prompted the filmmakers to strongly consider breaking it up into two separate films).

Unlike Scott’s original film, however, critics were quick to realize and promote the brilliance of Villeneuve’s work. After appearing on several year-end lists as one of the top films of 2017, BLADE RUNNER 2049 would score several Oscar nominations in technical categories like Sound Editing, Sound Mixing, and Visual Effects.

It would also garner nods in higher-profile categories where sci-fi sequels are rarely recognized: Best Production Design and Best Cinematography.

The latter would serve to become, perhaps, BLADE RUNNER 2049’s ultimate triumph, finally awarding Deakins with his long-deserved and long-overdue gold statue. Only a few years into its post-theatrical life, BLADE RUNNER 2049’s own status as a modern classic seems assured as the rare sequel that can stand toe-to-toe with its original counterpart.

Though it may not have met financial expectations — and likely put any talk of a third installment to a swift end — Villeneuve’s career thankfully manages to avoid any tarnishing. Indeed, his profile has only grown, expanding beyond the arthouse and awards circles that made his name to capture the obsessive hearts of genre fanatics.

His upcoming remake of the storied sci-fi property DUNE is positioned to further reinforce his dominance in this arena, its own buzz having ballooned as one of the most-anticipated films of 2021 after the coronavirus pandemic delayed its release by a year.

In its broad sweep, the trajectory of Villeneuve’s filmmaking career is rather staggering— and inspirational. His gifts in visual storytelling were immediately apparent as far back as his 1994 short debut, REW FFW, and his uncompromising early features did nothing to slow his inevitable ascent… even with a nine-year hiatus thrown in the middle to focus on parenting.

We tend to marvel at “meteoric rise” narratives in the film industry, perhaps because it better reflects our own innate desires for instant gratification while catering to our proclivities to work as little as possible. Slow and steady marches like Villeneuve’s, unfolding over several years and decades, are not nearly as sexy, but they really do speak to the power of sustained focus and simple endurance.

The results speak for themselves, finding Villeneuve at the peak of his craft and empowered by his considerable experience as he ventures further into the biggest and highest-stakes phase of his career. The artist he has yet to become is anybody’s guess, but if BLADE RUNNER 2049 is any indication of what’s to come, then the future will be anything but dystopic.


Author Cameron Beyl is the creator of The Directors Series and an award-winning filmmaker of narrative features, shorts, and music videos.  His work has screened at numerous film festivals and museums, in addition to being featured on tastemaking online media platforms like Vice Creators Project, Slate, Popular Mechanics and Indiewire. To see more of Cameron’s work – go to directorsseries.net.

THE DIRECTORS SERIES is an educational collection of video and text essays by filmmaker Cameron Beyl exploring the works of contemporary and classic film directors. ——>Watch the Directors Series Here <———

IFH 624: How NOT to Lose Your Soul in Hollywood with Stephen Simon

In 1980, Stephen Simon produced the film Somewhere in Time with Christopher Reeve, Jane Seymour, and Christopher Plummer. In 1998, he produced What Dreams May Come with Robin Williams, Annabella Sciorra, and Cuba Gooding, Jr.

Stephen Simon graduated from UCLA and Loyola Law School, entered the movie business in 1976, ran the film companies of legendary producers Ray Stark and Dino de Laurentiis, produced such films as Somewhere in Time and What Dreams May Come, co-founded The Spiritual Cinema Circle in 2004, and wrote the books The Force is With You and Bringing Back the Old Hollywood.

Please enjoy my conversation with Stephen Simon.

Stephen Simon 0:00
Around six o'clock in the morning got a panicked phone call from Harry Cohn saying give Sinatra the part. I don't want to hear anything else about this. This is beginning to sound a little bit like a movie that you may know of called The Godfather.

Alex Ferrari 0:15
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur how to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com I'd like to welcome to the show Stephen Simon. How you doin Stephen?

Stephen Simon 0:31
It was so easy doing this do this on Zoom. But anyway, it's good to talk to you, Alex. Thank you very much.

Alex Ferrari 0:42
Thank you so much for coming on the show my friend. I've I've been a fan of your work for many, many years. You've brought me much love and tears and spiritual enlightenment through the works that you've done over the years, and we're gonna get into the, into the weeds of your career. But my first question is, Why in God's green earth did you want to get into this insanity? That is the film industry? And how did you get it?

Stephen Simon 1:05
Well, first of all, thank you for the kind words. I was actually born into the industry. My dad was a writer, producer and a studio head at Columbia in the late 40s. He made movies like born yesterday with Judy Holliday that she won an Academy Award for and he was running Columbia Studios, as the Head of Production there, when he died very suddenly, at the age of 40 from a cerebral hemorrhage. My mother remarried another film producer. So we stayed in the industry. And I very early on in my life had an experience where I was saying to my mother and my stepfather, there's a man in my wall at night. And of course, they thought I was nuts. This is probably 1954 53. And that, Oh, are you scared? No, I'm not scared. You know, he's, he's really wonderful. I like him a lot. Well, it took me a long time to realize that was the spirit of my dad. Oh, wow. My dad constantly was encouraging me. And I know that I came to this life, to be a filmmaker, and to make films of a spiritual nature that would hopefully be uplifting. I mean, when I was a kid I loved It's A Wonderful Life. The ghosts and Mrs. Muir Lost Horizon, though those were my movies. So I knew I wanted to do this. I don't hold this against me, please. It's been a long time. I don't have to go to meetings anymore. But I was a lawyer for a short period of time. I know that that's not something that people like to usually admit, but I was, but I knew I was supposed to get into the film industry. I was surrounded by it. And one day I walked into a bookstore, the guy that was the clerk knew I loved books of that would be called at that point fantasy books. And he said, Well, there's great new book by Richard Matheson, who had written a lot of The Twilight Zone episodes and movies like I Am Legend and things like that. It was called Big Time return. And I read the book in one sitting, and I said, That's it. I gotta get into the industry. My, my dad's mentor, was a man named Ray Stark. And Ray was a major lead producer in the film industry, Funny Girl, funny lady and a whole bunch of big movies. And I went and big Ray for a job and said, I got to get this movie made Ray, I got to learn how to produce. So a longer story than that, but he hired me, the very first thing I did was call Richard Matheson's agent. We set up a meeting. And I said to him, Look, I don't know how long it's going to take this good movie I got into the business to make. And three years later, we produce somewhere in time, which was based on did time return. And then he gave me the galleys to what dreams may come. That took 20 years. That's a whole other story.

Alex Ferrari 4:00
We'll get and we'll get to that that amazing film in a minute. But before we get into somewhere, somewhere in time, is it true that Frank Sinatra was your godfather?

Stephen Simon 4:09
He was he was. So my dad was running Columbia, when he bought a book for them called From Here to Eternity to make into a film. And my dad was this is 1948 49. My dad was a big fan of Sinatra is what a lot of people don't know is that at that point, Frank's career had really gone into the toilet as he would say, because he had made a lot of bad movie choices. He hemorrhage his vocal cords and couldn't sing for a while. My father was a big fan. And he called him and he said, Hey, look, I got a part for you called Maggio. That's the character in From Here to Eternity. I think it'd be great for you. You want to read it and Frank was Yeah, absolutely. He read it. He called my dad He said I love this part. This is what I need to get back on track. My dad gave him the part. And then Harry Cohn, who headed the studio had Columbia at that time, called my father in and said, No, not Sinatra. You can have anybody but Sinatra. Is this story beginning to sound a little familiar, Alex, it should. It should. So my father said why and Harry wouldn't tell them why. But it was over a woman who I believe was Kim Novak. I think it was Kim Novak. I'm not 100% Sure. So my father said I can't You can't do this to me, Harry. I told the guy I'm the Head of Production, my word will be ruined and Harry Cohn in his inimitable kind way, said Who gives a damn about your your reputation? No. Just as an aside, Red Skelton once had a great comment about Harry Cohn. When Harry Cohn died, about 3000 people showed up for his funeral. And red said, See, give people what they want. They'll show up. Anyway, so my dad quit, went home. Around six o'clock in the morning, got a panicked phone call from Harry Cohn saying gives an actor the part. I don't want to hear anything else about this. If this is beginning to sound a little bit like a movie that you may know of called The Godfather. That's because it is it was based on that episode and know the horse's head was not cut off. Red Skelton told me the story long, much longer after this because red was my dad's best friend, my birth dad's best friend, right. But Harry owned a great resource who was poisoned in his stall. And there was a note under Harry's door saying your next. As far as I know, Frank knew nothing about that. And I never talked to Frank about that, because that was just not a subject that we wanted to deal with. But from that point forward, after my dad died, Frank became Uncle Frank. And there were always these great gifts from him. And when I was 18, I was called to his house to talk to him. And at that point, he told me the story about my father. And he said, your dad was a stand up guy. He really saved my career, Steven, I never got a chance to repay him. You now have to consider me your unofficial godfather. And we're gonna have some fun together. And I spent a few years traveling with him. And it was an extraordinary time. I often feel Alex like Forrest Gump. I just wound up being in the right place at the right time with a whole bunch of really fascinating people.

Alex Ferrari 7:40
That's an amazing story. So that so that whole story is that kind of basis of where that that scene in The Godfather came in Haratz. That is remarkable that the whole I love the Forrest Gump analogy, it seems as we continue with our conversation that will start to make more and more sense. Your your career is gone

Stephen Simon 8:03
Make sense to me, boy, you just be in the right place at the right time. And fascinating things happen. I've had a very, very lucky, fortunate life.

Alex Ferrari 8:11
So you've also worked with two you were working with two legends. One was Neil Simon. Another one was Dino DeLaurentis. You know, the legendary producer. So So first question, what was it like working with Neil? And did you get what kind of what kind of lessons did you learn from working with someone like Neil Simon.

Stephen Simon 8:30
So when I got my job with Ray start, when I begged my way into that job. Ray had a multi picture deal with Neil, who was at that time, the number one playwright in the world, he had had so many huge hits. And Ray had already made a couple of movies with him. And we were doing, I think we were starting to it was the a movie called The chief detective with Peter Falk in this great ensemble cast. And there was going to be a reading with the cast of the script one night Oh, never forget this a trader Vic's restaurant in Beverly Hills. And Ray said to me, we're going and I want you to sit next to Neil. And just watch Neil while he operates. And I said, Okay, so we have all these actors in a room who are in all of Neil Simon. And Neil says, Look, I just want you to read the script, guys. You don't have to, you don't have to act. You don't do anything. Just read the script. I need to know what it sounds like. So they started and I watched Neil make notes in his script in a big red pen. And he would make notes like, no big cross out, change it joke doesn't work. This is bad. This is good keep. And he did that all the way through the reading. And when it was over, he said to everybody, I really appreciate that. That's what I needed. I it's very clear to me, I've got to rewrite about half of this stuff. So I got to do a big rewrite on the script. We'll do another reading when I'm ready, but thank you, and he went away to Right. So when it was over, and it was just Neil and Ray and I said to him, Neil, how the heck do you do that? How can you keep objectivity? He said, Steven, a joke is only funny if other people laugh. If other people laugh, it doesn't matter what I think of it. It's not funny. I've got a I've got to make it work where people actually laugh, said, and I also have this device where when I'm doing my own rewrites, I pretend I have been hired to rewrite the work of somebody I don't like. And it's very easy for me to change the words. Now I was raised Jewish. Neil's Jewish Ray was Jewish. If you're Jewish, you get that attitude. Okay. So that was Neil, and it was fascinating watching him operate. And I still think at that time, Niels contract was the only writer in Hollywood that you could not change his work. His words without his permission. I think he was the only guy that had that. As far as I know. He may be the only guy that ever got that. But it was, again, it was just fascinating being in the presence of that kind of genius.

Alex Ferrari 11:13
I think I think Sorkin might have that. And I think Tarantino might have that at this point in the game. Be but but there's a short very short list, to say the least. Now you also got to work with Dino DiLaurentis, who was a legendary film producer. I mean, I'm sure you've got stories you could tell on air. And I'm sure you got stories you could tell off there. So what lessons did you learn as a producer for producer to producer? How, what lessons did you learn from him?

Stephen Simon 11:40
Oh, so many. Dino was a unique individual, you know, Dino almost single handedly launched the Italian film industry. Dino got his start in life, selling quote, holy water unquote, to American GI as during World War Two that he had basically just gotten out of the river. I mean, he I we used to get to work very early. He, which was great, because I'm an early bird as well. We used to get to the office at seven in the morning. And for the first hour, Dino would regale me with stories. And I, I almost felt like I should have been paying him. Because the stories were extraordinary about how he got started, how his films work. And you know, Dino pioneered selling off individual rights to films overseas. And that's how you get your film made. So he was the one that started all of that we would get a domestic deal. He sell it here in France and sell it here in Germany. And then eventually, this is a whole other story, which is a long story, which we won't go into. But eventually, we distributed a film outside the United States, which was Madonna's documentary, which we called outside the United States in Dino's inimitable way, which we called in bed with Madonna. And Madonna during that time, I had not met her but at that time, she was the most famous woman in the world. And she told Dino, she wanted to do a movie like The Sharon Stone movie. Basic Instinct, Basic Instinct. Thank you. That's what happens when you get to 76 you have those little brain freezes from time to time. And so Dino said to me, I've done the numbers, you got to find a really sexy script that she wants to do, you got to make it for $18 million. If you do, we can pre sell it for 23. And then we don't have to worry about anything else. And as your job. And I said, okay, and it scared the bejesus out of me. I had been through a very difficult divorce at that time, I had declared bankruptcy at that time, I had just gotten my job with Dino, which I did not want to lose. So I called Madonna's assistant and said, you know, this is going to be my position, I would really like to meet with her. And she was renting a house in the Hollywood Hills. And we set up the meeting for whatever it was. And I came in and she was in the living room sitting on the couch, and came up and shook my hand. She was very, very nice. And we sat on opposite sides. And she said, What can I do for you? And I said, I'm going to be really frank with you. You scare me to death. And she got this little smile. And she said, well tell me about that. And I told her, I said, I need this job. It's my job to keep this movie on schedule and on budget. If you don't like the way I say, Good morning, you can get me fired. I know that. I've been told I can be honest with you. I'm being honest with you. What is it going to take for me to make this work for you? And I'll never forget this as long as I live. She launched herself off the couch and I actually thought He was coming toward me to hit me, I actually thought she was going to slap me. And I stood up, and she gave me a big hug. And she said, Steven, if you're that honest with me about everything all the way through this, we are going to be great friends, because I want you at the end of the film, to say to everybody how professional I was. And because a lot of people have different ideas about me, and we're not going to have any problems, I promise you. And she was just an absolute delight to work with the entire way through, she kept her word. And Dino and I finally had a parting of the ways but working with him during those years was utterly fascinating, because I, I learned how to actually get movies financed in a very unconventional way. And he was one of the great giants of the industry. And I really loved him very dearly.

Alex Ferrari 15:53
And he was so he was he he started the whole pre selling

Stephen Simon 15:58
Dino originated all of that,

Alex Ferrari 16:01
Right! Because I mean, I know the Canon boys started taking that to the next level in the 80s when they just throw it

Stephen Simon 16:08
The next level. But you know, he was the one that he is the one that did it. And he made a lot of, you know, incredible films in Italy with Fellini. And he was, I think Dino may have had his name on three or 400 movies by the end of his career. I may be exaggerating that, but I don't think so. And as I said, he I was given the opportunity to work for two of the last great moguls Ray Stark, and Dino DiLaurentis. And I was, it was a gift to me. I much appreciated.

Alex Ferrari 16:39
And as a producer, you must have picked up a lot of tools in your toolbox along the way.

Stephen Simon 16:43
I sure did. I learned a lot of things that I wanted to do. And I learned a lot of things I didn't want to do.

Alex Ferrari 16:49
So that's fascinating, because I remember when body of evidence, which is that Madonna film came out. It wasn't I mean, it was you know, it wasn't a success. I mean, it wasn't success, but it wasn't like they wanted it to be this whole thing. I think there's just so much press about her and she was so so. But you know, she was so dividing and polarizing. So it was just a difficult.

Stephen Simon 17:09
While I tell you what happened with that. We previewed body of evidence. And the previews were really successful. This was I can't remember the time of the year, but it was maybe once before the film was going to be released maybe for four to six months. But But after the previews, but before the film came out, Madonna's sex book came out. Yes. And it changed a lot of the public perception of Madonna. And we went back and previewed it again. MGM released it domestically. And Laddie Alan Ladd, who was running MGM said, we need to test this again. And the tests were much different. And it was mostly because a lot of the audience had changed their attitude about Madonna. I have to tell you, though, recently, I got a phone call from somebody in England, saying that they were doing a special blu ray release of body of evidence because it's become quite a cult film in Europe, and is wildly successful. And I did some interviews with them. And I think that's going to be coming out sometime in the fall. So it did find its audience. I watched it recently again, and the level, the, the heat in that movie, The explicitness of that movie. And he or she and Willem together were really extraordinary. And I went, Whoa, man, I forgot it was that explicit. And anyway, it was a fun movie to work on. And she was great. Willem was great. It was a wonderful experience.

Alex Ferrari 18:43
So let's go to somewhere in time, which was your first producing credit. It is it is one of those films that just is a classic, it keeps going and going and going. And people love love that film was a young Christopher Reeve, a young Jane Seymour. I mean, this is this is post Superman, Christopher Reeve. So he was a big star in 1979 1980. I mean, he was a massive star at that time. What What were the lessons that they you learned to get that thing off the ground? How did you, you know, how did you? I mean, I know the world is so different now. But are there any universal lessons you learned during that process?

Stephen Simon 19:25
No. Again, I just I want to play in the right place. I wanted to be in the right place at the right time. I'll tell you the story because it's a fun story. So I had had really helped push through Smokey and the Bandit with universal for Ray Stark when I was working for Ray. I did not produce Smokey and the Bandit. A guy named Nord engelberg did I really had very little to do with that. But as an executive I helped to get through so universal was grateful. There was also a guy named Janos work wound up directing somewhere in time, who had come in and saved them on Jaws two, he replaced the original director on that. So Genoa and I got together. And he was saying, I want to make an old fashioned romantic movie like the ghost and Mrs. Muir, or something like that. And I said, Oh, here's the book. And he said, Yeah, we got to do this. So we went to Universal, to make a deal with them to develop the script. And as I know, there was a great guy named net 10, and running Ned. And laying the studio at that time. I know he did that as a gesture of gratitude to both Shinola and to myself, but I don't think that they ever really totally intended to make the movie. So in every movie, with every script, there is a moment of truth with the studio. And we had developed the script, we got called into Ned's office, we went into Ned's office, and Ned said, you know, I love you guys. Immediately, I knew that the biggest butt in the world was coming. And I he was about to say, and he admitted it later, he was about to say, but we just can't get behind this. And I just blurted out to him, What if we get Christopher Reeve I thought Janelle was going to kill me. And at that point, I felt like killing myself because this is January of 1980. Superman had opened in December of 1979. Chris was the biggest star in the world. At that point, there was no way we were gonna get him for a movie that we had budgeted at $5 million in the star at 500,000. So immediately, Ned said, you the Christopher Reeve, his first movie after Superman, you got a green light. And I immediately tried to backtrack and go with what about this? And he said, No. And I said, so what if we don't get Chris rubies? Don't come back, Steven. And I'm like, okay, so Joe, and I walk out. And he said, Why don't I get I'm going to call his agent. So I called his agent who I will not name. And his agent said, that little time travel thing you have, there's no chance he's going to do that. I'm getting offers like three or $4 million offers for him. Remember, this is 40 years ago. So that was a lot of money. That was huge. And I said, we got to give him the script. And he said, No, I'm not even gonna show it to him, because I'm telling you, he won't do it. So Chenoa said, what are we going to do? And I said, Well, I have a crazy idea. desperate people do desperate things. If you've been in LA, you're in LA. So you know that on Sunset Boulevard in West LA, they sell Maps to the Stars homes.

Alex Ferrari 22:36
No, you did it. No, you did not.

Stephen Simon 22:40
Oh, yes. We got it. We did. And I he was Did you notice like, This is humiliating? What are you doing? And I said, you know, what harm can it do? Let's look so you know, I know that a lot of that stuff is totally made up because it lets Bruce Willis is in the mowing lawn in front of his house. Right? I do you know, a Bruce Willis lives there. So Chris is listed somewhere in the Hollywood Hills. So I said, we're going he said, No, we're not. I said, we're going and he originally didn't want to get out of the car. So we go up to this and he's laughing and he says, You're gonna feel like the biggest idiot in the world. We knock on the door, and Chris answers the door. You got to be kidding. Now, Chris later said that my jaw went like. We were both shocked. And I think I got out something like, you know, I'm a producer. He's a director, we got a movie at Universal, but we're Cristobal me later, was the thing that intrigued him is when I said your agent won't show you the script. And he said, Okay, well, have you got a script, we ran to the car, gave him a script. He said, Give me your phone number. I'll call you tomorrow. So he called me and he said, Get your director come up to the house. We did. We walked in. He said, I've got two things to tell you. Number one, this is going to be my next movie. Oh, number two. Number two, I just fired my agent. His agent never spoke to me again, which I don't blame him for. And that's how we got Chris Reeve. I mean, it was just a fluke. And he later said to me that he had his agent had given him a script where he was supposed to play a Viking. And he's visions of me wearing one of those big helmets with all the horns and stuff. And when I saw this beautiful little love story, I said, this is what I want to do. And, you know, getting Jane Seymour was a whole other story that anyway, that's how we got the movie approved

Alex Ferrari 24:30
So what you're telling everybody to do is, if you're a young producer in Hollywood, you go get them and get them apps, and then go out the door of the actor

Stephen Simon 24:40
I mean, I didn't know what else to do. How are we going to find them if this Asian wouldn't help them? Again. I have been unbelievably lucky in my life, to be at the right place at the right time. And I feel very blessed by that. And it was an extraordinary shoot. The movie came out bombed Totally, with at the box office and with critics, it was devastating. I grew this beard 40 years ago, October of 1980. When the movie came out, I haven't shaved it since. And it took a long time. But the movie and I won't waste your time with how but the movie really wound up getting seen on cable TV and on the first page, LA called the z channel. And it built up an audience. And now there's a weekend devoted to it. At the Grand Hotel every October, the whole hotel, which is I think six or seven under rooms, is taken up by fans of the film, who come bringing trunks of 1912 clothing. They get dressed in costume all weekend. There are all kinds of events around the film, and it has become a wonderful little cult film, and I'm really proud that it's finally found its audience.

Alex Ferrari 25:56
Did you have you ever gone to that event?

Stephen Simon 25:58
Oh, yeah, I went a couple of times. Absolutely. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 26:01
Oh my god, that must. Yeah, cuz I remember the movie when it came out. I mean, I was I don't remember when it came out. But I remembered in my video store days, I was in the video stores, I worked at a video store from 87 to 9293, something like that. And, and I remember the box and it would always rent. Like it was always renting constantly. And I remember watching us it was such a beautiful film. Even in my high school days when I was a knucklehead. I really was still touched by the film. But it is one of those films that just got a cult following over the years and really found its audience. I mean, a lot of a lot of movies found their audience during the VHS boom and the cable boom, like because they were just being played. Like get Terminator was just played on loop on HBO for for a while.

Stephen Simon 26:52
HBO was one of the you know, when they first started, they couldn't afford to buy big hits. So they bought somewhere in time, and they showed it a lot. It is a movie that is for really people with a very romantic heart. And I have said to people, you cannot watch this movie with your head, you have to watch it with your heart. Because there are things in it like where did the watch come from originally, that we Richard Matheson finally came up with the right answer to that because people have seen the movie know that the old Elise gives the watch to the young Richard and says Richard goes back in time to the young Elise and leaves the watch there. And people were where the where did the Washington first start? Richard's answer was somewhere in time. So you know, it doesn't a lot of it doesn't make logical sense. And I understand that it is not a movie that you're supposed to watch. Here. You're supposed to watch it here. And people who are really have access to that part of themselves who are romantics really love that film. And then there are people who just think it is a slow, ridiculous 1940s millage melodrama, and frankly, I had that same experience with what dreams may come people either love it or hate it. And I personally would rather have people either love or hate a film that I've made then haven't be like Chinese food, which is a you know, it's okay, but I'm hungry again. Okay, I I'm thrilled that people who love it really love it. And people who don't I respect that. Everybody's got a right to their own taste and their own films.

Alex Ferrari 28:34
Now, you also got to work with a young actor on a film called all the right moves. Young Young man, Mr. Tom Cruise. When that first came when he was, was that pre Risky Business or post risky business, I don't remember

Stephen Simon 28:51
We hired Tom. Right before he went to Chicago to star in risky business.

Alex Ferrari 29:00
Very shrewd, again, right place at the right time forest.

Stephen Simon 29:03
Right place. He literally left the shoot in Chicago after they wrapped Risky Business and came to Johnstown, Pennsylvania, where we shot all the right moves. So I remember at that point. It was obvious when you sat in a room with Tom. I mean, I think I'd only seen him in a tap app, I think. And he was in some other movie that was abroad comedy about going to one or something i

Alex Ferrari 29:31
Oh, god. Yeah, sure thing. I think the sure thing or yeah, all the right moves at none. All right. I know what you're talking about. It's a really bad

Stephen Simon 29:40
And there was he had the most amazing presence. I think Tom was 21 at that time, 20 or 21. And it was so obvious that he was the guy that we wanted to hire. And I remember we had a big argument with Fox at that point, because we were offering him 102 $25,000 to star in the film, which I think Tom makes per minute now?

Alex Ferrari 30:05
Per minute pretty much.

Stephen Simon 30:09
Like, you know, that was an amazing shoot. And again, the film was not a big hit at the box office, but definitely caught on later. As a friend of mine once said to me, Stephen, your career has been a study in your before your time. And he's and my friend said to me, do you know what that also means? And I said what he said it means now you're wrong. Okay, well, as long as people catch up with it, you know, Kevin Costner had this great saying about, you can't really tell about your film when it first comes out. But if three or four years after it comes out, a couple of people are talking in a living room and somebody says, Oh, have you ever seen this film? I got to show you this film you then you know, you've made a successful film. And fortunately, with the films that I've been involved with, other than Bill and Ted, these were not big commercial successes, the films that I did, but they found a life later on.

Alex Ferrari 31:14
And I mean, and I've had the pleasure of talking to one of one of those films that Kevin did, which is Waterworld, which was obviously panned, and it became one of universals biggest IPs, ever, and it's made so much money over the years, and it's found their audience. You know, you just don't know when it comes out. And it could be 10 years later. I mean, I'm sure you know, the movie the room. That's the worst movie ever made. And what happened to that, like, it became this whole movie of being a movie that's so bad. Transit, I always say it's so bad. It's now good. So it's those things. Now, you didn't mention Bill and Ted. And I have to tell you, before we get into your Bill and Ted's story, which I know because we spoke about it already. But for the audience, I just want to let you know what Bill and Ted meant to me. And I was working at the video store in 89. When it was released. It was one of three releases of that week. I never forgot, because I could watch everything that came out weekly. Not like today, you got 50,000 movies a minute coming out. And I had just broken up with a girlfriend and I was depressed and I was down. And then I saw this thing with this ridiculous cover. I'm like, Who is this piano? Wow, I can't even say his name. And they're in a phone booth. And let me take it home. Because I didn't even see the trailer because there was no YouTube to see trailers at that time unless you you caught it at the theater. And I took it home and the amount of laughter and joy that I got from that I started off absolutely depressed. And I finished that movie. On a high I was so happy and I just and I recommend it to everybody that walked into the video store. It is one of those films that just I mean, just connected with me. It's such a such a way. And I think it's connected obviously with an audience, because there's so much love behind their stupidity. Characters are so endearing and so loving. And yeah, they're buffoons, and yeah, they're kinda like, what they're ridiculous. But so crates, and, you know, the salad dressing, dude. And like, it's just, it's just so it was so wonderful. So please, I want to first of all say thank you for bringing that into the world because God knows we needed a little laughter. And secondly, tell this insane story of how you got involved with pullin. Ted's Excellent Adventure. Yeah, and

Stephen Simon 33:46
I want to say very clearly that I did not produce Bill and Ted. I'm one of the executive producers on it, I take no credit for producing that movie in any way. It was done by Robert cord, and Scott Kruth, and Ted field at Interscope, I only was instrumental in saving it from being thrown away, and getting it sold. And then I took another job, another executive job. So all of the credit for what happened in that film really does not belong to me, it belongs to those other producers. Richard Matheson, who was my mentor, who wrote somewhere in time, and what dreams may come the books and he wrote the script for somewhere in time, had a son and Christian, who was writing scripts when we were prepping somewhere in time and what dreams may come? No, because it was before what readers might call it was somewhere in time. And Richard asked me to read a couple of the scripts, and they were very, very odd. really odd, but they had an incredibly dark, funny sense of humor. And Richard said to me, what do you think? And I said, Well, I don't think this is going to get done. But if he could find somebody that's commercial, to work with him, maybe it would work well. He found a guy named Ed Solomon, who had been working on Laverne and Shirley and some other things. And they came up with Bill and Ted. And Richard called me one day and said, well, they wrote the script called Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. And their agents said that they don't want to distribute it around town because they think it will ruin their career that no one will buy it, no one will make it It's so dumb and blah, blah, blah. And we said, Would you read it? And I said, Yeah, so I read it. And I was howling, just reading it. And I'm like, I don't know what's wrong with them. But I think I know where I can sell this. And a good friend of mine at that time, Robert cord, who had been a, an executive at both Columbia and Fox when I was both at Columbia and Fox, and was my executive on all the right moves, had just taken over a production company called Interscope. And I called Robert, and he was they were looking for material. And I said, I think you're gonna laugh your ass off. And the next day, he called, he said, we want this. And so the guys went met with him. I wasn't even in that meeting, from what I understand. They did as good a Bill and Ted is Keanu and Alex did later on. And they made the movie. And that was my only involvement. So I don't want to take credit for any of the creative things that happened for the casting or anything else. That was really Robert cord, Scott group and Ted field. But I was very glad that I could be instrumental in getting it started.

Alex Ferrari 36:25
I mean, you again, in your Forrest Gump ways, you fell into helping put out into the world Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. I mean, again, without you, the movie might have been lost to time, somewhere in time, if you will. It could have been lost and not never seen the light of day, and maybe that would have affected the pianos career and Alex winters career, who knows, but that one that one motion, set other things in motion. So let's just say you're responsible for John Wick and the matrix, I'm just gonna throw it out there. You are, personally when I'm joking, but no, but But thank you, but thank you for bringing into the world because I felt like I told you, it brought me so much laughter. And so it's a very, very, and then the Bogus Journey went to it. And I even saw the new one that they just released, as well. And it was nice to see the boys back. Doing their thing. It was fantastic. Now, I mean, over the years, you've read, probably 1000s of scripts, and over the course of your career, is are there mistakes that you see screenwriters make again and again, that you're just like, Oh, God, I just wish I wish they would just understand don't do this?

Stephen Simon 37:42
Well, it depends on the genre that they're writing in. And it also depends on whether it's their first script, because most writers in their first script, write something that's autobiographical, in some way or another. And it's very hard to let go of it. I think that the biggest thing that I find in working with writers, which I still do, is that they have to understand what they're what they're going for. And that it is called show business. There's a business side, and there's a show side, but they have to find a way of melding. And you can't cross that kind those kinds of wires. And you have to really accept that the biggest issue that I have with screenwriters often is that they don't take the Neil Simon advice. They aren't open to criticism, to saying this doesn't work. You know, you've got to redo this, this is why this doesn't work. I always say this is why I don't think it works. Because the film industry, as William Goldman said in his famous book adventures in the screen, frayed, which is one of the greatest books ever written about the movie industry. He had an incredible quote, which is nobody knows anything. And there's a lot of truth in that. So I tried to give a lot of leeway to writers, it's very important for writers to have a structure first, if you're gonna build a house, you got to build the foundation. And then you build the walls and you know, you work inward and you do all of that stuff. You have to have a foundation. I insist when I work with writers, if it's from scratch, that they do a very detailed outline first, so that they know where they're going, which also alleviates the problem of sitting in front of an open computer saying okay, now what do I do? You know, there was that wonderful movie and I and you'll remember the name of it I don't right now I think was called something orchid with and it was It was

Alex Ferrari 39:52
Wild orchid? Wild. I think it was wild orchid where, you know, you're thinking adaptation. Adaptation.

Stephen Simon 39:59
That's it. Thanks. I think that's it. I think Wild Orchid was Mickey Rourke. Correct? Correct, right. So, in adaptation, there's this wonderful scene that several scenes where he sits down to write and it says I need a muffin. And he gets up and he gets a muffin and stuff like that, which is, you know, and one of the great things that I learned from a couple of writers is always end your day in the middle of a sentence. And your writing day in the middle of a sentence. So when you come back the next day, you know where to start. And if you have a proper outline, then you just have to connect the dots. Ron bass was a very good friend of mine in LA. And you know, Ron won the Academy Award for Rain Man and has written, I think, 2025 30 movies that have gotten made. And Ron used to have a crew of young women working for him, who he didn't like it when we his friends did this, but we call them the Ron nets. And they would out help him outline all because he he was making a fortune, and turning out these incredible scripts, they would help him outline everything he was going to do in a script. So before Ron sat down to write it, he gave them the basic ideas of things in the characters, and then they would help him put the structure together. And then Ron would refine it. And he would know this scene is going to take two pages, this scene is going to take two and a half pages, he was always incredibly organized. And it's very important to do that, as a writer, you need to be organized, you need to know where you're going. And then you need to have the ability to say, okay, maybe you're right, maybe I could do that differently. And everyone else has, you know, their own quirks and everything else. But for me, it's a lot of fun. The only type of work I do with writers now is on films that would be uplifting. That for me, need to have some kind of a spiritual side, it doesn't mean it has to be openly spiritual. And I don't mean religious, I mean, spiritual, there's a difference. You can be very spiritual and not be tied to any particular religion. You can obviously be religious and very spiritual, but I'm talking about having some kind of a sense that this is going to make people feel better about who they are about their lives, which we desperately need now, oh, my goodness, do we desperately need that? You know, Bill, Maher said, a year or two ago, in a in a rant about the movie industry? He said, Do you think that maybe you guys could make a movie every once in a while, that doesn't make me want to take a bath with a toaster.

Alex Ferrari 42:37
Right! It's a great line. Remember that line.

Stephen Simon 42:39
During the pandemic, that was very true. Well, now we're out of that. And I think people are really looking for hope. Again, they're looking to feel better. Again, it's so hard to do that when you look out in the world. And you see all the conflict and all the anger and things like that. And so at this stage of my life, I really just want to work on things that I think will be positive. And we'll make people feel better when they walk out of the theater. So I'm kind of picky about that. But at this stage of my life, that's the only thing I want to do. And I want to help people get work out into the world.

Alex Ferrari 43:13
Fair enough. Fair enough. Now, as a producer, you've done a lot of big movies and all sorts of different movies in the studio system and outside. Is there a day that you feel that the entire you felt that the entire production was coming crashing down around you? I know, that feels like every day. But was there one day or one film in a day in the film that you were just like, I don't know how we're gonna get over this, like, how are we going to continue? What was that thing? And how did you overcome it?

Stephen Simon 43:44
There were a few of those. I can't go into the details of this, because I don't think it would be appropriate at this point. Because some of the people that were involved in this in a very significant way are no longer with us. Okay, and I don't think I should do that. But I so I'm not going to specify the film. But we did have an idea. I was working on a film that we had to shut down production in the middle of the day. We had an amazing crisis with the cast, and with the director and with extras in the film, and I had to call the studio to get permission to shut it down. The people involved making the we're not going to be specific but some of the people who are making the film are very unhappy with me. I actually thought I was gonna get fired. And I it's only because the person who was actually running the financing entity knew how long it had taken me to get What Dreams May Come May because it took me 20 years and there was no way in the world that he was going to let me be fired but I I thought the movie might not continue and I thought I probably wouldn't continue. So I definitely remember that I worked on a film many, many years ago in which there was a horrible accident. And actually, somebody wound up getting killed. Wow. And somebody wound up being in a wheelchair for life that haunts me to this day. So yeah, I definitely had definitely had those moments where I thought all is lost.

Alex Ferrari 45:29
And did you and like that day that you had to shut down the production? How did you get that over? Like, how did you overcome that? Like, how did you get that? Well, how do you rally back the entire crew in the cast and get that engine up again,

Stephen Simon 45:43
You know, we dealt with it. Fortunately, we were dealing with very, very professional people. And it was rough. It definitely drove a wedge, between me and one member of the cast in particular, that never really totally got healed. It was a really, really challenging thing. But you know, people who work on film are, in general, are incredibly hard working professional people. And the idea that the show must go on is deeply, deeply ingrained, particularly in the crews, you know, the grips, and the electricians are the hardest working people on sets, as I think everybody knows. And they have an incredible work ethic, you know, this is what we're here to do. And everyone got together and the movie moved on from that. But it always stayed in my mind, it stayed in my heart. And it's something that I regret, and I wish I'd been able to do something differently. I don't regret that I shut the film down, I had to in the studio agree that I had to. But I regret that that happened. And even now thinking back on it, it was a it was a pretty rough moment. But unfortunately, I didn't have too many of those. Thank

Alex Ferrari 47:01
God for that. But you know, this is this is a lesson for people listening. If you're a filmmaker, it's sometimes you got to make these tough choices, you got to either continue down the path and by destroy the film, or stop, reassess, and start up again. And that's, that's a brave, two brave move. It's a brave move. But it's a lot of times it's something that needs to be done.

Stephen Simon 47:22
And I would also say to people who are, who want to be producers, or maybe our producers, I had, and it didn't stand me in great stead with studios. And I understand why I don't blame them. I did my, my loyalty on a film was always to the director. I always saw my job as being able to help the director put the vision on screen that the director wanted to put on screen. And I became very good friends. With all of our directors, I mean, you should know, it's working eyes. You know, he's retired now in France. And there's, you know, I think is in his early 80s. And you know, and I still stay in touch. Until his tragic passing, I stayed in touch with Michael Chapman all the time on all the right moves. Then toward who directed What Dreams May Come is a dear dear friend of mine, we talk all the time. And I wanted to have friendships with these people because I saw that as my job now. The studio will tell you, it's your job to do with the studio want you to do. And I respect that. I respect that. But the films that I'm the most proud of somewhere in time, and what dreams may come in particular, because those are the films that I feel I came to this life to make other films I made because I needed to make a living. And I'm still proud of them. Very proud of them. There are a couple of them not so proud of but we won't go into those. Most of them I'm very proud of. And I'm glad that I got involved. But to me, a producer's job is to nurture the director unless the director really goes off the rails and then you you know, you've got to try to do something that bring them back. Fortunately, that never happened with me. I never had a director go off the rails. And it was an a fantastic career. I don't do it anymore. I don't produce films anymore. 76 years old. I've been out of Hollywood for 20 years. I moved to Oregon 20 years ago, wrote a couple of books founded the spiritual cinema circle which we operated for 16 years and distributing really uplifting material to people. So the only way I keep my hand in now is through my mentoring program. Which people can take a look at if you're interested at the old hollywood.com Th e or Weldy hollywood.com. It is a rigorous program I spend 20 to 25 hours a month. I'm working with directly with the writers, one time with a producer who wound up getting our film made. And it is something that if people are interested in, you should take a look at that page. And if you're interested fill in the questionnaire that will come to me. And then you know, we can have a conversation about it. But I don't work with that many people at a time. It's only usually two or three. And if people are interested, we they can do that. And if not, I hope you enjoy the films that I made in the past.

Alex Ferrari 50:32
Which brings me to one of my favorite films that you've produced ever, which is what dreams may come. And that film, I just recently saw it when I knew you were going to come back on the show, or come on the show. I said, I'm gonna go watch it again. I haven't seen it in a while. And it still holds up so beautifully. It's actually probably deep. It hit me harder now than it did when I, you know, many years ago when I saw and it's just one of those films that that sticks, at least it sticks to my bones, it sticks it sticks hard. And even more so now because of Robins passing all those years ago. And how, what a powerful message that whole movie was, and Robin Williams and everything how did you get that film, which wasn't a cheap film to make, by the way, it was a it was a from what I understand it was a fairly expensive film

Stephen Simon 51:22
$80 $85 million.

Alex Ferrari 51:26
Right. So I know Robin was the the catalyst for getting that movie made. But how did Robin get involved? How did you get this to Robin? How did you get the whole thing?

Stephen Simon 51:34
Alright, so we literally don't have enough time to tell that story. That whole story because that was literally 20 years of my life. Wow, Richard gave me Richard Mathis gave me the galleys for what dreams may come when we were prepping somewhere in time. She's nicely 80. And the film didn't get shot until 1997 and 98. The adventures we went through with that were pretty extraordinary. Almost every well known director in the film industry turned it down. One in particular wanted to do it but we couldn't come to an agreement about where it was going to be done, which was a whole other story that I don't want to waste time with now. We finally thought we had a green light at Fox in the mid 80s with a wonderful director named Wolfgang Petersen. That fell through the regime changed and everything got changed. And it just took forever, forever and ever and ever. For me to find the right person to do it. I'll tell you what the catalyst was. When I was running Dino's company. We hired Ron bass to write an original script. I've never told this story on a podcast or in public before, so I'm going to tell it now. And it is it's an amazing Hollywood story. So we hired Ron to write the script. Ron is the the most professional writer you can possibly imagine. And a great man, a great man. We had known each other for a very long time when Ron was a lawyer before we even started writing. We knew each other and we're friends. So we hired Ron to write this script Dino did not like the first draft at all. And and I said, Well, we'll have Ron Ian, tell them what you want. Ron will make whatever changes you want them to make? Because that's what he is. And Dena was like, No, this isn't a movie sold us. And you know, I want to get our money back. I don't want to move forward. We can't do that Dino. I mean, we've made a commitment. And Ron came in Dino. And Ron was wonderful. Dino did not want to go forward. And I sided with Ron. And it was a painful moment. But there was no way we could not do that. And when Ron left the office, Dino fired me. And he had every reason to fire me. He was right in firing me. Because I was there to support him. And I I understand why he fired me. Ron felt terrible about it. And tried to make it right. But it didn't work out. Fade out a few months later, Ron calls me to find out how I'm doing. And he said, Is there anything I can do? And I said, Yeah, I've finally come to a point in the development of what dreams may come that I believe and I need to talk to the writer of Richard Matheson about this run. But I need a major writer like you to come in and do a rewrite on this. And I would really appreciate it if you would take this over. And he was like, Steven, nobody. Nobody's going to set that movie Up. If he had read the book because there's a friend of mine, he says it's an incredible book. And I'm sure we can make it into an incredible movie. But my God, there's so many issues. And I said, I really want you to do this. I went to Richard Matheson, I told him what I wanted to do. He gave me the permission to do it. And one said, okay, look, I'll give you one pitch. One pitch, we'll do one pitch. And I said, Okay, so we went to MGM, Mike Marcos, who was running the studio at that time, David Ladd was one of the executives there. Everyone wanted to be in business with Ron. As we're driving to the meeting, I said to Ron, Ron, what are we going to do about the suicide? And because it was always the biggest problem in the book, right in the book, in the book of what dreams may come. And he committed suicide while the children are still alive.

Chris has died. Annie in grief, takes her own life, leaving two children parentless and orphans. And I knew we all knew that we could not do that. It doesn't work. And he said, I haven't even thought about it. And there were Believe me, they're not even going to ask. Okay, so I don't have an answer to the question. So we go into the meeting, Ron is doing his thing, which was, you could have sold tickets to watch Ron pitch he was it was a lesson in genius. And we get to the end of it. And of course, Mike Marcus says this is fantastic, Ron, this sounds great. Steven, I know it's taking you forever to do this. Ron, I just have one question. What are you going to do about the suicide? And I thought, Oh, should David said to me, but my face just drained of blood at that point. And next to me sitting on the couch, Ron just instinctively says, you know, I think I know what to do about that. We'll have the kids die. We'll have the kids die earlier. And that's why Annie tries to take her life. And Chris, and her love for Chris is what stops her from doing that. So Chris won't die first, the children will before the movie will show that in flashback. And he said now that I'm thinking about it, when they get into the afterlife, they can be anybody. We can change their appearance, they can be anybody. And we'll do that he'll have great reunions with his kids. And we'll understand why she took her life because now her kids and her husband have died. There's no way in the world that people won't understand it. And we wound up making some adjustments to that. But Mike said, That's brilliant. You got to deal. And we walked out of the office. And I looked at Ron and Ron, you can see my hand shaking. And I said, what, how? Where did that come from? And he was pale as it goes to? And he said, I have no idea where that came from? I have no idea. It just came out? Well, I think we do know where it came from the universe stepped in and said, you know, Steven, aka Forrest, you may not be the smartest guy in the whole world. And you're certainly not the quickest guy in the whole world. But we're going to give you a little boost here. The cap on that story is that we're walking out of MGM, and Ron who knew everybody, there was one guy sitting in the waiting room. As you as you once said to me, the the water bottle tour the water bottle? Yes, yes. Yeah. He was sitting for a meeting with somebody else. And I just casually said to Ron, who is that? And he said, That's a director from New Zealand and Vincent ward. And I looked him up later, and Vincent eventually became the director for what dreams may come. So for people who believe in coincidence, okay, fine. I don't believe that was a coincidence. I don't believe that was an accident. I believe that movie was had found it's time to get made. And universe, our angels, our guides, whatever you want to say, stepped in and gave us the answer to the biggest problem in the book. And then we went forward. We gave the script to Robin, who had just made the movie that he got the Academy Award for Goodwill. Yeah, Goodwill Hunting. And he was looking to do something like this. We thought we offered him the script. We got a phone call that the director and I were supposed to come meet him in San Francisco, which we did. Robin walked into the meeting and he said, Well, this is going to be my next movie guys. But I want to tell you There's a little bit of a twist here, I'm gonna play every part in the movie.

Was he serious? No, thank God. No. But at that point, we would say, okay, because we needed a star of his stature and with the visual effects in the film, which, again, I had nothing to do with that was certainly Vincent and our production designer and the great effects people who won an Academy Award for it was stunning. That was an amazing experience watching that all of that happen. And it was not an easy shoot, because it's, it's not an easy movie. It is not an easy movie. And there were I'll tell you one great story from it. And we were prepping the movie. Do you remember the scene when Robin finally is getting closer to Annabella? And he gets to this place where he walks over this sea of faces? Yes. I was gonna ask you about that. All right. So I'm someone in the art department. And I will not name who it was. Because to this day, Vincent doesn't know who it is. And I was sworn to secrecy. But someone in the art department came to me and said, Have you seen the sketches for this? And I said, No. So he showed me the sketches. And I was like, No way are we doing that? So I went to Vincent. Vincent and I had a fabulous relationship. We had many arguments, but they were never personal. It was always about the film. And we never got angry at each other. We just got angry over the about what we were arguing about. So I said, Vincent, this is a love story. Okay, that's gonna scare the crap out of people. You know that it's just a bridge too far. We can't do that kind of thing. So we got into this big argument. I later found out we were in the production office of that time, up in San Francisco, where we were prepping. And I think it was in Oakland, we had the office actually. We learned that the production assistants and everybody went out in the parking lot. Because the producer director sounded like they were gonna kill each other to yelling at each other back and forth. And finally, Vincent says to me, Steven, this is a movie about a man who goes to hell to save his wife soul, he does not go through heck. And I cracked up. Both wound up rolling on the floor crying, laughing so hard. Needless to say he won the argument. When we preview that film. You know, when you do preview cards, people are asked to note among other things, what their favorite scene is, and what their least favorite scene is. That scene got the most votes in every preview for both favorite scene and least favorite scene. And at that point, I knew that Denson had been right all along that we needed to do that. He was totally right. I was totally wrong. But no, it's not about a man who goes through Heck, he does go through hell.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:08
But in that scene, there is a cameo by a young director, if I'm not mistaken, Verner Hertzog. Oh, yeah, it's in that seat. Like I remember like, as I was watching the movie, like a week or two ago, I see Robin Williams and I hear this voice which is so distinctive. And then as I'm watching the credits, I'm like, that was Werner Verner. Hertzog like what?

Stephen Simon 1:03:33
Actually, you know what, you're right. I'd actually forgotten that Werner was a good friend of incense and, and did that as a favor to Vince. And Vincent was a huge fan of Werner in his work. I had completely forgotten that that was the case. You're right.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:48
Yeah. And so that's how we did it was just like a favor. Okay. You want to come in and just do a quick line? Yes. It's amazing.

Stephen Simon 1:03:57
You know, Max von Sydow played the tracker. Oh, and what an incredible actor, an incredible gentleman, my goodness, you know, the old actors, and they, they had such a strong sense of professionalism and style. So he's hired to do that his first scene is in the library sequence where he is on wires in this big heavy overcoat. And I hadn't even know. So I went into the set to find them, and he's up there hanging by these wires, and yellow up at a max. I'm Stephen Simon. I'm the producer of the movie. And he looked down to me very drolly and said, thanks so much for hiring me. Ah, he was a great great, great, great guy. It wasn't that was a fascinating shoot, but a very challenging one because of the subject matter. A very, very challenging one. So when Robin went up to do the eulogy Hmm. Oh is in the church, with those two coffins in front of him, a lot of our crew would not go into that set. Because they were so spooked by it. When Robin went up to do that he took pictures of his own kids up to the podium and had them in front of him while he was doing that scene, and it, it shows, because it's such an incredibly powerful, but an incredibly painful scene. That's it. The movie is not a light comedy, that's for sure.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:32
No, it's not a light comedy at all. And there are some, you know, humorous moments in the movie, but, but generally, definitely not a comedy. And I wanted to ask you about Robin, because, you know, obviously Robin is a legend. And I've heard many I know many people who've worked with Robin over the years. And you know, Robin is he has that energy that was just non stop. And he would, even in dramatic scenes in dramatic films like Goodwill Hunting, he would, before the camera rolled, he's cracking the entire room up, because he had to because that was his mission and life. And and then the second the election, boom, he's in character, I think when our photo was like that, he would be I mean, I've seen some behind the scenes, he was literally on second yells action. He's into this. And he just goes right into his thing. What was it like on set with Robin Williams on that film, because, again, it's a heavy movie,

Stephen Simon 1:06:29
It was not like that on our show. Robin was, you know, Robin was always incredibly kind and generous to everybody. He was always very respectful of the crew and the other actors and things like that. But this was a really heavy lift for the actors, I mean, a very heavy lift. And Robin was very much in character for most of it. And so many of those scenes are such heart rending heart rending scenes, that there wasn't that I mean, there was banter, and there was they had fun at times. But mostly Robin was really Robin and Cuba and Annabella were very much into their roles. And their roles were very emotionally draining for all of them. So there wasn't as much of that on our film, as I understand there were on other films with Robin.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:21
Well, it is again, thank you for bringing that into the world because it was one of those films that has definitely.

Stephen Simon 1:07:26
I'm very, very, very, very proud of that movie. I'm very proud of that movie for just for what it took to get it done for the messages within it. That life continues after life. And you know, it's something I'm incredibly proud of. And I'm really glad that it is also lasted the test of time and that people still watch it people still buy it, and I hope they will it is not for everybody. I understand that. But it it's a powerful film.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:03
No it is. And it's not a light film. It's a heavy film. Very beautiful, beautiful ending, wonderful ending. It's so touching. And but it you you literally go through heck to get to.

Stephen Simon 1:08:19
Yeah, no, you definitely do. And again, I give all the credit on that. Really 90% of that credit goes to Vincent, because just having the Kahunas to take on that movie. And to say, okay, I can do this, we're going to spend most of the movie in an afterlife setting. He changed a bunch of the characters, he made Annie into this museum curator, art museum curator so that we could tie into the paintings more. It was Vincent's idea that when Robin came in to the afterlife, it would be in a world of wet paint. And he would be the only human in it. I remember saying, Vincent, that's just beyond brilliant. Can we do that? And he said, Yeah, of course we can do that. And I said, Do you know how he said hello. But we'll figure it out. And he was right. They figured it out. I mean, it was it was really cutting edge stuff that the effects guys did on that film. And it made it really, really beautiful. I mean, truly beautiful. And, you know, robins line with the Dalmatian? In the beginning. You know, I screwed up. I'm in dog heaven. That was in the script. But Robin really, Robin really gave it his own twist. And the same thing with the line at the end. You know, I could find you and I found you in hell, I can find you in Jersey. You know that. That is Robin Williams stuff. And again, I'm very, very proud of that movie. And I'm glad that touched you and moved you.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:50
Absolutely. It's one of those films that just, it always sits in the back of my head is it's on my top 10 of all time. It's just one of those films that just there aren't movies made. like that, at that level, at that budget level with that kind of caliber of actor, and people behind the scenes as well, it's just not movie that gets made. And less lesser now, I mean, a movie like that would never get made.

Stephen Simon 1:10:17
The movie did not make money. I mean, the movie wound up losing money because it did not do as well at the box office as it needed to do. But it reached the audience that it reached that that I knew would touch it. And, you know, that's why I saw again, my role as a producer differently. And and frankly, it did not. It did not augur well for a long term career for me in producing, because I was really focused on making these spiritual films and getting this love after life concept in front of people to make people realize that it does go on that after light, there is more. And I know we'll talk about this in another time, that wound up happening in my life, turned with my wife, and she wanted to transitioning in her sleep, it was a big surprise, she was only 54. And when that happened, she and I had always talked about these things that we would find a way to communicate, we always thought I would go first because I was significantly older. But it happened with her. And six weeks later, she started to communicate with me. And we wrote a book together called What dreams had what dreams have come. And it's again, it's a book that I wrote with her after she crossed over. So there are people that think that I am several egg rolls short of a combination plate

Alex Ferrari 1:11:57
the cheese the cheese the cheese slid off the cracker sir. As they say.

Stephen Simon 1:12:04
Absolutely. And that's okay with me. Because I know in my heart that this is real, it continues to this day, and it has sustained me. And I really feel that my primary role in life has been to bring these kinds of concepts on to film, whether they wind up being mainstream concepts or not. And they weren't. And they don't have to be, I've never been in my heart, what I would call a mainstream producer. That has not been my goal, it should have been. And my career was shorter because of that. But I don't regret that in any way. Because I'm really, really, really proud of what we did.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:43
Now, Steven, I'm going to ask you a few questions asked all my guests, what advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today?

Stephen Simon 1:12:50
Don't be the first thing I would say is don't be so committed to having your film play in a theater. Because then that has been the case for years. That was the case before the pandemic, so hard for all kinds of reasons to get a movie made at all. And then to get it in wide distribution in theaters, it's really like going through the eye of the needle. And because of the pandemic, that's even been more magnified. And there are so many great venues now. like Amazon, like Hulu, like Showtime, like HBO, Apple TV, whatever it might be, he caught HBO, Max, all those things. And particularly with the longer forms now of doing series, writers have an opportunity to really develop characters in a way that you can't do on a two hour film. And also, there is such a huge voluminous need for material, that if you're not focused on getting your movie in a theater, and you're not writing, you don't have a right to a Marvel comic character, or you're not doing a sequel to a very, you know, to other big movies. It is very hard to get movies made and shown in theaters today for all kinds of reasons. So that's the first thing I would say which is right for the audience that you think will be right for this and don't worry about what the distribution mechanism will be. Because there was a wonderful producer whose name I cannot come up with right now that one said, if you write a great script, you can throw it out of your car on the San Diego freeway, and the right producer will find it. If you have the right idea, you will find a way to get it done. As long as you're persistent and that's the other thing. You can't give up Sometimes it's your third, fourth, fifth or sixth script that you wind up selling. And even that may not get made, and it may not get made in the way you want it to get made. But you keep moving forward, if you believe in yourself. And this is what you do, if it's in your heart, if you want to be in the film industry, because you think it would be a really cool way to make a lot of money. I will tell you, it isn't. If you think it will be a way for you to feel better about yourself or something else. Or however you may look at it, if you're not getting in for the sole reason. That is is the way you need to express yourself. And you cannot imagine yourself in any other life than that. That is what you when you do that, I'm telling you, you're gonna get your opportunity at some point or another, if you hang in there long enough, you will get an opportunity. But you have to live it, love it, breathe it, and be willing to give up a whole lot of different things in your life to get your film made, eventually, you'll get your chance to do it. And, you know, there are other things that I would say those would be the two things, which is never give up. And don't be in love with the thought of your movie getting into a movie theater. You know, I know a lot of love with the idea of sitting in a movie theater and being surrounded by that very hard to get that done nowadays. And I would say don't focus on that.

Alex Ferrari 1:16:30
Or if you want to do that rent, rent the theater yourself, and then you have that experience. Absolutely, absolutely no question. Now what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film industry or in life?

Stephen Simon 1:16:44
I could say the thing that took me the longest to learn, I never learned which and that is I never understood the technical aspects of the film industry. I I directed a couple of small films the the adaptation of conversations with God. And I never could figure out anything about the technical aspect of camera lenses. It just somehow wouldn't compute in my brain. I had no concept of lighting. I hired a wonderful cinematographer that did all that. In editing, I had great editors, thank God because I just didn't understand how I would put certain things together and how they would technically do some of the things that they did. To put this shortly. I am a tech moron. And I never learned that stuff. And I think it's important for producers to understand a lot of that stuff today, particularly today. That stuff I never learned. So I think the thing that took me the longest to learn, I have never learned and at this age, I probably never will.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:47
Fair enough, sir. Fair enough. And finally, three of your favorite films of all time.

Stephen Simon 1:17:54
Lost Horizon, the original one the 1931. That Frank Capra version, and the godfather.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:02
Not a bad list at all, my friend. Stephen, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Stephen Simon 1:18:07
See if there was a three a yes. If it was a three a. And I'm not having excluding movies that I was involved with. If there was a three, it would be Avatar.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:16
Real Yeah, Avatar. Yeah.

Stephen Simon 1:18:19
Because what he did with that film, and that's why I cannot wait to see the sequels. That was a game changer. extraordinaire. I have never experienced anything like that in a movie theater. To me. That is what movie theaters and IMAX and 3d were created to be. I thought that was more than a film. It was an absolutely awesome experience. So I would put I would put avatar right up there as create.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:47
Fair enough. Fair enough. Now Stephen, again, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your your knowledge, your experiences, your amazing stories on the show and and thank you for putting all this amazing work out over the years to to hopefully uplift society a bit. So I appreciate you my friend. Thank you again.

Stephen Simon 1:19:06
You're welcome, Alex, thank you for doing this. This has been really great fun. Thank you for putting up because you learn before we started this interview how technically idiotic and inept I am. How do you get onto a zoom call? It's anyway thank you for being patient. I really enjoyed doing this and I look forward to doing more.

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IFH 623: How NOT to Quit on Your Filmmaking Dream with Pete Chatmon

With a deft ability to balance both half-hour single camera comedies and one-hour dramas, Pete Chatmon has directed over 50 episodes of television including HBO Max’s The Flight Attendant, InsecureSilicon Valley, and Love Life, Netflix’s You, ABC’s Grey’s Anatomy and Black-ish, Starz’ Blindspotting, FX’s It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and the Apple TV+ series Mythic Quest. He is in development on The Education of Matt Barnes with Showtime, for which he will direct the pilot and serve as executive producer and is currently co-executive producer and producing director on Reasonable Doubt, the first project to be produced via Hulu’s Onyx Collective.

His debut feature as writer/director, Premium, starred Dorian Missick, Zoe Saldana, and Hill Harper, and premiered on Showtime after a limited theatrical run. Chatmon also wrote, produced, and directed 761st, a documentary on the first Black tank battalion in WWII, narrated by Andre Braugher. Through TheDirector, his Digital Studio, he has directed, shot, and edited content for advertising agencies and Fortune 500 brands.

Chatmon’s career began in 2001 with the Sundance selection of his NYU thesis film, 3D, starring Kerry Washington. His most recent short film, BlackCard, premiered on HBO, and his narrative podcast, Wednesday Morning, engaged voters around the 2020 election. His podcast, Let’s Shoot! with Pete Chatmon is available on YouTube, iTunes, and all podcast platforms. In January 2022 his book, Transitions: A Director’s Journey + Motivational Handbook was released by Michael Wiese Productions

Enjoy my conversation with Pete Chatmon.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Pete Chatmon 0:00
Like choosing your battles and picking your moments. I feel like for the most part, if you do that, you'll be able to find a way to collaborate with anybody.

Alex Ferrari 0:11
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur how to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com. I like to welcome to the show Pete Chatmon, man. How you doing Pete?

Pete Chatmon 0:25
I'm doing well, brother. Good to see you, Alex.

Alex Ferrari 0:27
Good to see you too. Man. We've been trying to do this for months now back and forth between our schedules. Now I'm so happy we finally got to do this man. So thank you for your patience. And I'm looking forward to get into the weeds with you about the about the fun and easy world of the film industry.

Pete Chatmon 0:44
Of course, it's like snap, crackle pop, you know.

Alex Ferrari 0:48
I mean, just I make millions you I mean, I mean, that's the way it works, right? I mean, here's the thing, you can make a movie. I have a $200 million movie coming up. I don't know about you. But

Pete Chatmon 0:57
Yeah, I'm thinking 350 You know?

Alex Ferrari 1:00
I mean, yeah, push the edge. So first question, brother. How and why God's green earth? Did you want to get into this business?

Pete Chatmon 1:09
You know, I, I blame I blame my high school. I'm looking at what I think is a Super Eight camera. I can't tell if it's a Bolex or what on your on your

Alex Ferrari 1:20
I have multiple super eights and 60s back there.

Pete Chatmon 1:23
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, Oh, yeah. See the lower shelf now. And, you know, I had a, I had a Super Eight filmmaking class in my high school in New Jersey, Columbia High School in Maplewood, New Jersey. I was trying, we had to take these electives. And I had taken architecture in 10th grade, and we had to build a little house. And I thought I'd be an architect until we got into the measurements. And I mean, it was it was like, one 1,000,000th scale of a home, you know what I mean? But like, I was like, I like this, but it's not for me. And so I was like, Well, let me do photography. And I was like, this is cool. I did the TV station. That was cool. But southern about like the moving image just kind of really connected to me. So I picked up that Super Eight camera, my high school film teacher, George Chase had gone to NYU. And so I'm kind of hearing these anecdotes about NYU. And at the same time discovering the, the eyes, the reality of the director, you know what I mean? Like, oh, there's a, there's a person for whom, you know, what I'm seeing, you know, we can argue about the tour theory, but like, there's a person for whom is, is kind of heavily responsible. And in film was mostly responsible, arguably, for what I'm seeing. And I was, I think, in the same way, I was attracted to architecture in designing a world. Film spoke to me and I found that I was pretty fluent with what to do with the camera, and how to edit pretty early. And so I was like, it was like, it was like creative crack.

Alex Ferrari 3:07
Yeah, that's, that's, I call it the beautiful disease, because once you get it, can't get rid of it.

Pete Chatmon 3:13
Exactly.

Alex Ferrari 3:16
So looking through your filmography, man, I see that you did a tremendous amount of shorts, man, you did a lot of short films at the beginning of your career. And even throughout a little bit, what impact did shorts do for you to get you those first paid directing gigs? Because I'm assuming these weren't all paid short term.

Pete Chatmon 3:34
None of them were they were all their debt, fulfilling prophecy? You know, I'm saying, but I think that look, like I was gonna make it, I'll answer the question, but I'm starting here, I was gonna make a short in 2020. But when COVID hit, it was to come, it was too cumbersome economically to pay for all the COVID protocols. And so I made an audio podcast, one episode, audio, podcast, and narrative. And so I would make a short right now. Like, I feel like short filmmaking is its own little masterpiece. It's a great challenge to tell a story or, or pick a theme and deal with an event, you know, a setup an event and kind of propel the audience to imagine what happens after the conclusion. Because, to me, there's no resolution and a short film. It's too short. And so, you know, I made shorts throughout my NYU. Time I made shorts in high school, probably like 10 shorts, you know. And after I graduated, I just found like, shorts were the way to stay sharp, because you're it takes forever to make a feature film. And it's almost like in my mind, it's like if you're a Chef you cook, right? You can't say like, the last meal I cooked was in 1999. And it's now 2004. It's still a cook, but I'm still a cook. Right. So I was always making shorts, because it was keeping it was feeding my passion and, and keeping my keeping me energized. And so specifically though, for how it fed into my career, me and my, my thesis film went to Sundance, coming out of NYU. But that didn't necessarily, there was no real straight line to the next thing, you know, it took six more years before I raised the money to make my feature. And then, but in the middle of that I had made like two or three more shorts, which I use to kind of build awareness around myself as a director and filmmaker, while I was trying to independently raise money. So more people will become aware of like the kid from New Jersey. And then, you know, most recently, man like after, after two features, a doc and a narrative feature, you know, winning a screenplay competition at Tribeca, a whole bunch of, you know, branded content projects in 2014. I made a short just for myself. And it was kind of like, let me see what I can do when I'm not doing it for a client. And I paid for it, I paid $30,000 out of pocket. And that short, got picked up by HBO. And so that short, then led to a bunch of these director programs, and they helped me get my first television job. But I didn't get paid to direct anything narrative until 2017.

Alex Ferrari 6:50
So So overnight, is what you're saying. So just overnight, out of film school, you just jumped in just got mad money. So. So I want to, I want to take you back to take back a little bit what you said, because it was really interesting. I always love to point this out for filmmakers. Because there's such a myth behind getting into a Sundance or things like that. I mean, even getting into NYU, it's a lottery ticket to get into NYU, or USC or UCLA, one of these big film schools. And so you're already we're coming out of a really, really one of the arguably one of the best film schools in the country, if not the world. And then out of that your thesis film gets called into Sundance. So I want to just want to go back into your mind back then, man, right, because I can only imagine what that was like. Right? How old were you when that happened?

Pete Chatmon 7:41
Let's see. That was 2001 that it went to Sundance, so I was 20 some? Yeah, I was like 20 How old was never met? I guess? That doesn't seem right.

Alex Ferrari 8:02
Late 20s Let's say late 20s.

Pete Chatmon 8:04
Yeah, well, I was born in 77. That was 2001 So that was what 24 24 Alright,

Alex Ferrari 8:10
So you're 24 years old? So you obviously have the entire world understood at this point in your life? You're completely you're completely altogether there because I definitely was not but so when you're sent to Sundance you automatically this is it man. I'm ready to I'm on my way. I'm like, so am I right?

Pete Chatmon 8:28
Yeah, I thought I thought I was like, I thought all the dots had been connected. The phone's gonna start ringing you know and and part of that to man is like, you can you can feed you can buy into these things that people tell you or show you and and on one level like I always think about like, you know, when I was raising money for my future, and I will have thrived done it everybody wanted me to kind of look at their business plan. And I'd be like, Look your your appendix of of comparable films. All be lightning in a bottle. You know. Spitfire grill Yeah, whatever that sounds like you know $10 million pickups like it's not it's not real.

Alex Ferrari 9:18
So can I so Yeah, can I can I can I just take a shot at the dark of what those movies where are you? Napoleon Dynamite? Yep. Blair Witch Project? Yep. Paranormal Activity. Yep. Did they even go as far back as like Brothers McMullen or El Mariachi?

Pete Chatmon 9:34
Of course, of course. And it's like, and you're not even any of these genres. Right? But this is these are comparables and so you know, I feel like people buy into that and like, and even for me, like in film school, it was like, the, the kind of pinnacle of student filmmaking was Sundance, or Khan, you know, center foundation for student films. And so when that they'd happened. I was like, okay, cool. Like, I'm like, rubbing my hands together, like things are good. But it didn't work out that way, you know. And so it was a, but I always try and hop back and say, Well, what is the real lesson here? You know, like, like, I'm a big basketball fan and like, Kobe is one of my favorite players. And I remember like watching something that he was talking about, like this playoff game, where in his rookie year, he had three air balls, right? And in and he, people were laughing and booing. And he was like, Okay, well, what's going on here, it's like, I've never played 82 games, you know, high school is 3035 games, my legs are tired. That's why I can't I don't have any lift in my shot. So y'all can laugh. And y'all can do all these things. But I know how to train for next year. So like, they're my takeaway from that experience was like, A, I was in I went to NYU, and I kind of minding my own business, and I didn't really have anyone that kind of looked at me as their guy, any professor, you know what I mean? And this is, you know, it is what it is, right? Because you always have advocates. And and then at the same time, you know, I, well, that's really, that's really my main point. And that's kind of driven by the fact that there was after Sundance, we had a festival at NYU, where, like, if you just finished the film, you show it and it's selected. And there were awards at that festival. And they were using the fact that my film was one of six NYU films that went to Sundance that year, like they were using it as promotion and advertising. And then it didn't get recognized for any of the craft awards or anything. And at my young age, I was like, well, that how the fuck you doing that? Right? Like that's, you know, you sent me the cell.

Alex Ferrari 12:00
But you give me a trophy, bro, give me a gift certificate of participation, something

Pete Chatmon 12:05
Exactly. Like in my naivete, I got scheduled a meeting with the with the head of the department. And, you know, he, he a great guy, David Irving, one of my favorite teachers. And he was like, Look, we've had films that have won the student prize at Sun or won the short film prize at Sundance and have come back here and not received any accolades. I was like, okay to shake. But the takeaway for me was like, I bet, I think if I would have had more people on my side and advocating for me, I'm aware of what I was doing that maybe that would have been different. And so that's what drove me to the earlier question to make all these short films, because when I went back to New Jersey, after leaving NYU, I wanted to make sure that was never going to happen again. And people would be aware of me, and what I was trying to do,

Alex Ferrari 12:59
So that did you a favor, that is your favor, by by not by not being advocate for you, you have to like I gotta do this myself. And you started out and you start hustling it out yourself. Sometimes, things that happen to you when you're younger, and you're like, Man, why did that happen to me, they probably the best thing, that it forces you to go in a direction that you might have not gone through. So that's always fascinating to me, man. Because we you know, when you get that Sundance call, and you're like, oh my god, I got into Sundance, everyone's like, you're done. It's over. You should get those folks. Now. It doesn't it doesn't work that way. So between the Sundance short, and your first feature was, what six years?

Pete Chatmon 13:37
Yeah, because so you know, Yeah, cuz the short shot and 99 it took me so long to get, you know, get the finishing funds that it didn't go to Sundance until Oh, one. But it was 99. I graduated. And it was that was May, and it was June of oh five that I first that was that we started shooting premium. My feature.

Alex Ferrari 13:59
Great. Alright, so during those years, how the hell did you survive? Brother? How did you survive? How did you keep going? How did you mentally break through the barriers of? Is it I have to I have to have to guess that this was thoughts going through your head? Did I make the right choice? Am I on the right path? Am I really that good? Like it's all these because this is what goes through a normal director's mind.

Pete Chatmon 14:25
Right! Well, I gotta say, man, it's funny because when I when I when I get asked these questions, I realize how I can sound but fuck it like you're asking me so. So I always knew that I would work harder than anybody else. You know what I mean? Like, I just felt like, once I like I'm gonna I observe. I'm gonna sit back. I'm going to watch how this works. And then I'm going to gain some information about how and how it works right now, because it can work differently next month. It could work Definitely in New York from LA, but so like, there's always a playing field that I need to look at and get a handle on before I decide how I'm going to inject myself into the game. Right? And so, you know, I was just always like, Well, okay, I learned this. But I, the more I do, the better I'll get. So that's also what shorts were for. Right? Like, you know, I would, I would, I would, I would do things like, I would go home to my mom's for like holidays, and I make videos like my little nephew, or from his point of view, like when he was two years old, because I wanted to try shooting from a kid's perspective. And years later, when I did TV shows with kids, I had that in my back pocket, you know? So I feel like I'm kind of straying from from the answer. But I, I was never really deterred. I was always like, well, what's the information to take from what's happening right now? And that was driven by this question of like, is everything? Am I doing everything that I can? And I think the answer will always be No. So I can always refine and try and improve my outcomes.

Alex Ferrari 16:19
So you are asking the right questions, as opposed to the negative questions that I was asking. bottom bottom, I mean, bottom line is like, the, those three questions I asked you are the questions that go through a lot through a lot of, you know, directors, especially during those years, not months, years, that things aren't working out the way you expect them to work out a huge switched it in your mind. And you're like, What can I do to keep going? What can I you were asking positive questions, that created positive answers that kept you going in an easier way than the struggle I went through.

Pete Chatmon 16:55
Well, you know, I wish I could remember the quote that I put it on my Instagram a few months ago, but the person was talking about how, in the beginning, we don't have talent, but we have taste. And it's our taste that keeps us going. We make those early projects and recognize from our tastes, that it's not where we want it to be, but we have a target that we're going to reach and we're going to refine with each thing to there's a point where what we do, what we can actually accomplish is commensurate with our tastes. And it's always that taste and then like a little bit of ego to that lets you think that it's like, Who the fuck thinks they can be president? You know what I mean? Like, like, you gotta have a certain level of ego and like, and I think that you got to have a certain level of ego to to think that, you know, you're going to whether it's raise money independently, or, or be given hired to direct something that costs millions of dollars. Like, there's a particular kind of drive that I think, you know, fills this industry. And it's also why you get so many challenges sometimes because you put all those people with all that kind of drive in a room. And all hell breaks loose.

Alex Ferrari 18:13
Yeah, it's it's kind of like, I mean, it's it's a slight bit of insanity. I mean, you have to be insane to be in the film industry in general. At the beginning, there is an insane because there's such a, like, Who who are you, like you said, Who the hell are you think someone's gonna give you a million dollars to go make your vision? Like there's, there's a slight bit of an insanity and ego that is needed to do that, you know, can you imagine what James Cameron said, when he walked into Fox's office back in the early 2000s, and said, Listen, I'm going to make a movie about a new IP. There's, I'm going to build out an entire new technology. No one's ever seen it. Hell, I don't even know if it's gonna work. I just need 100 million just to see if we can get this ball rolling. It's probably gonna cost about 500 600 million. Right, right. Right, right. I mean, that takes, arguably, there's probably no other filmmaker on the planet that could have had that conversation anywhere. Not Spielberg, not Nolan, Finch. Nobody. But that's who James Cameron.

Pete Chatmon 19:16
Yeah. And you got to believe that you're the one.

Alex Ferrari 19:19
You gotta believe you're Neo man. And you're in the matrix, and you could stop bullets. And that's what a director does. And so now, so you so you made your first feature. How did you get from that first feature into television directing, how did you make that pivot? And what was that first gig that you got?

Pete Chatmon 19:38
And so so you know, it was it was that feature. That feature was premium. It starred Dorian Missick Zoe sat down a hill Harper, Frankie phase on Bill Sadler. And it was a romantic dramedy, and it was me trying to you know, shake up the genre and

Alex Ferrari 20:00
Your ego again, as we say ego again,

Pete Chatmon 20:04
And of course, I'm proud of it, but I often look at it and wonder like, and recognize all the things that I could have done better, because I was trying to be different before being before honoring some of the things that the genre needs, you know? And again, right, like, that's me, like, I got to always look, go back and say, like, what could I have done better in this thing? And so, you know, that led to the feature. And basically, man, it was like, it was there was just a stretch of, I'm working at NYU, and as assistant Production Coordinator, like signing forms and talking to the students about insurance and whatnot. I'm teaching at NYU, acting classes, and then production classes. I'm on committees at NYU, you know, and there's so much full circle next to it. Like, there was a point when I was on the film festival committee. And now I had an opportunity to advocate for films, you know, in a way that I felt like mine hadn't been advocated for, and kind of getting in those rooms and seeing the politics of these things like, all very eye opening and affirming, and understanding what's on the other side of our creative, you know, output. And so, yeah, it was really it was really that short film that I did for HBO, that HBO picked up that really led to TV. And in an interesting way. You know, I'll say, for the industry, because I entered with the short, or that was my kind of access point into the industry was a short, and then I did these director programs, Disney, ABC, HBO, Sony and NBCU. It's almost like not even almost all the things that I did before that short film did not exist for the folks in the industry, because that was not they were not involved with that. And so that is partly why I wrote my book transitions because I wanted to have something that could be like, Okay, here's like, the director's journey and motivational handbook that's like the subtitle, but like, also, it's like an autobiography of all these things that I've done. And now, for those who do read it, it's like, oh, you actually were doing this for a long time before that short. But you know, that, um, the first episode that I got, you know, and anybody listening, I can't, I can't say enough how much of it this thing is, so it's, it's just a marathon and it's full circle. My first TV job that I booked was blackish. And I had shadowed on blackish, in the disney abc program. But the thing that is important to note is that when I came to LA for the very first time in 2000, to 25 years old, you know, I'm out here thinking it's I'm going to connect all the dots and just go and raise the money for my film. One of the first people I met hanging out with the star of my short Dorian Missick, and who will be the star my feature, I caught up with him and his cousin and his cousin's buddy. And it was Kenya Barris. So cut to 14 years later, he was the first person to offer me a job because unlike everyone else, he was actually aware of all these things I had been doing, you know, on the east coast for 1415 years.

Alex Ferrari 23:39
Wow, man, this is one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is because your journey is so indicative of, of a lot of filmmakers. And that just takes time. It's like, you know, I was in not to drop a name. But when Rick Linkletter was on the one of the greatest quotes he ever, ever heard about the film, and he was like, whatever you think it is going to take twice as long, it's going to be twice as hard as you thought it's going to be. Yeah. And it's so true, because, and I would argue would probably be 10 times as long as 10 times it's hard because, you know, when you're young man when you're in your 20s you're like any day now, I'm gonna get that call. Spielberg is gonna call me he's gonna bring me into his office. I'm gonna go to am universal. Get the call and drive on. Go into the ambulance. Go Mr. Spielberg. I love Raiders of the Lost Ark. You see anything in your mind you this is the this is the interaction. Hello, Steven. Hello, Pete. How are you? I saw Raiders of Lost Ark you didn't Did you see Raiders? What did you think? And that's that's that's how we all think that that situation? But it doesn't happen.

Pete Chatmon 24:42
Never played.

Alex Ferrari 24:46
I do know a couple people that that it actually did play out like that. But that's such a, again, these kind of lottery ticket anomalies in the business. Most of us and you're a success story. You're working in the business now. And for every one View there might be 10,000, who are still who's still grinding it out. They're trying to get trying to get made. So that's the reality I want people to understand. But it's not. It's not that I'm trying to kill dreams, it's for people to understand the realities of what they're getting into. Do you agree?

Pete Chatmon 25:16
I totally agree. Look here. I mean, here's something I say. And, and it's funny man, because like, I'm not trying to discourage anyone, you know, with this statement, but i There are several points in time where I could have just given up the dream, and I would not have been crazy, no one would have been like, Yo, he didn't try, you know what I mean? Like, like, like, from 1999, to 2017. And all the varying things that I did with a modicum of financial, you know, success, like barely, you know what I mean? Like, I could have quit many times along the way. And I would not have been a quitter for having done so, you know, but the fact of the matter is, I feel like, you've got to have that kind of like engine in your back that battery in your back, because you just don't know how it's gonna play out. And then if you do kind of pop off quick, you know, I kind of sometimes I feel for those folks that get there really quickly, because then, you know, they're in this position, they think, Oh, it's just like that. And then when you go from being hot to like, not you have yet you have no idea what it's like to, you know, have to navigate. You know, the perfect storm.

Alex Ferrari 26:39
And I've talked to some of those guys who did pop, legendary guys who have popped at that early time. And, man, a lot of times, you're just not ready, you know, when you imagine if you would have gotten your first TV gig at 24? Yeah. Can you imagine how the ego would have run wild with you and like you could have, I mean, I had met, I had an opportunity at 26 to almost make a $20 million movie with the mob. And that's a whole other book and story. But I saw the big movie stars, and I did all this whole thing. And I look back and go, Oh my God, if I would have actually gotten that gig and worked with the caliber of bars at that age, I would have absolutely self destructed, I would have, I was just not prepared to handle that.

Pete Chatmon 27:26
Right! I'll tell you, man, if I would have gotten my first episode of TV at 38 instead of 40. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, if it pans out, like to the point where now. I mean, it's been what since 2017. Now I've done getting close to 60 episodes of TV like now, I'm attached to pilots, and I'm doing comedy and drama. And it's like, the amount of things that I had to have learned in my other pursuits, to recognize human nature and pitfalls and traps, that come with something that is as high stakes as television, you know, where people's jobs and livelihoods are on the line. And, you know, like, I don't think I would have, I don't think I would have navigated it as well. And so I'm actually, you know, thankful for, you know, how it's panned out, because now, it's just like, you start, it's like, when you get in the zone, I'm kind of, I beat the sports analogies to death. But like, when you get into that zone, and like you hear those athletes talking about, like, the game is moving slower, you know what I mean? Because, like, I see where people are gonna go, because I've been to so many scenarios that like, you know, on these shows where you don't get where you get a script late, or you get new pages, and I'm like, boom, boom, boom, okay, I've shot so many scenes that you give me give me a couple of minutes by myself, and I'll figure out a blockage and shoot it. You know, and that's just part of, you know, it's like what you pay a lawyer for, like you, you've gotten people out of jail for this before. You know, it takes you two minutes to do it for me, but it's all these years of what you've done before that allow you to keep me and maintain my freedom.

Alex Ferrari 29:19
I mean, I'll tell you what, and I agree with you 100%. Because as you get as you're growing and getting older, and you're going through the business, you're putting more tools in the toolbox. And it's not it's not a pleasant experience. Doing that stuff that at the time you're like, man, what am I doing? But only in hindsight as you get older you look back and go, man, thank God I didn't get on Project Greenlight. Big gotta didn't get on that reality show. I mean, I was there, man. I was, I was actually worst. I was at I was top 20 Brother I almost made a decision to so I get it and said like these kinds of things. You just at the time, you're like, my life is over. Oh my god. And then you look back I'm like, oh, man, I dodged a bullet. And it's in this essay. And that's life, though. You're like, Oh, thank God, I didn't think I didn't go on a date with that girl. She went crazy, or things. But that's life. And I think that's something that Film School doesn't teach you doesn't understand about as a director. It's a lot to do about lying about life experience, even more so than the technique and the craft, the craft and the technique you pick up along the way. It's a human nature thing that they don't talk about.

Pete Chatmon 30:30
Yes, right. Yeah. For people listening right now. I'm pointing at Alex.

Alex Ferrari 30:35
Absolutely man.

Pete Chatmon 30:37
I'm in complete agreement with that. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 30:39
So so let me let me ask you. So you got you obviously was shadowing through these programs on some of these shows. So you weren't new to set a television set. But when you walk

Pete Chatmon 30:50
I was I had never been on a TV set. The first time I shadow? I know the shadow.

Alex Ferrari 30:55
Yeah, I don't know. But after your shadowing, I'm talking about when you get your first paid gig. So yeah, when you're shadowing you're, you're on the set. And it's like you're learning and you're absorbing so much stuff. But then when you but when you got that first gig that blackish that and you're on set, and yeah, you've been there before, but now you You're the man. What is it like walking onto that set? Mentally? What are you dealing with mentally on that day?

Pete Chatmon 31:22
Right. What can I kind of give you a little story? Because I hear so I booked that episode first. And the way TV works is they booked well in advance. I think it might have been April of 2017 that I booked. So Season Three was still shooting. And I booked this episode that would shoot October into November of the same year for season, it would be the 12th episode of season four. So that's like at that point six months out. But what happens is you have three stakeholders that hire you, you've got obviously the showrunner, you know representing the show, you've got the the net, the studio, and then you got the network. And sometimes it might be the same company, but different departments like ABC Studios, and then there's ABC the network. But once I got that job now I'm kind of semi approved, right? Even though I hadn't done one yet. I'm semi approved. Then I had interviewed for an episode of insecure season two, and I was I had never done anything. So they were, you know, understandably, not looking to hire someone who had never done an episode of TV. And, but what but what they did offer was like, Look, we're thinking about doing this show within the show where like all the characters watch this show. And it becomes like a running thing. Like they comment on it and whatever. And if we do that, you know, we're thinking about hiring you for that. And so back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and they ended up doing it. And so it was called do north and then season two, it's what all the characters were watching. It was like scandal antebellum, you know, times, right. And so it starts so this was my first this is what got me into the DGA. And it starred Regina King, Scott Foley. Michael J. White, right? So like, oh, and it was, it was a one day shoot. And it was 14 pages. Right? And so I was like, that's crazy. But, you know, figure it out. And I remember on and they had to build this whole set, you know, where it's in, like a barn on the plantation, all that stuff. And I'm like, wow, this is like crazy. Like, this is like money. You know what I mean? Even though it's just a little thing within the show. And I remember there, we were getting toward the end of the day. And I was in the last scene, which was like a big, like, dramatic, you know, you're lying. And I did this and I'm fucking her and this and that, right? And so I was like, I don't have enough time. And I was like, Alright, I know how to get this, but it feels crazy. And I was like, Alright, look, everybody. This is how we're going to block it. And I told the crew like we're going to spend time blocking it. But then when we shoot this, I'm going to call freeze. And I'm just going to move the cameras to where they need to go next. Because I don't have time to shoot all of this. And it was like a weird thing. So I was like, Man, I feel like I'm exposing myself but like at the same time this is a unrealistic amount of pages to shoot. And this is the only way to get it. And so I did that and we got it and it was it was dope because I think everybody rallied around this like super gorilla. Yeah. And so anyhow, I did that that got me into the DGA that shot may 31. I have a very good memory. And so when it's not COVID fault, and then because I was in the program and ABC knew me, I they hired me to do some interstitials because they knew I did branded content. I did For interstitials, with the blackish kids for Walmart for back to school. So that shot in July of 2017. So now I'm wanting to blackish set with the black kids. And I'm working with some of the crew, and then grown ish got greenlit, and because I was approved, and it was a new show. And I don't know if everybody was like, if they were I don't know, but they offered me one. So I directed that before I directed blackish, even though I booked that first. So I got to get the TV episode jitters out of the way with people who were more of my age, you know what I mean? And also that I had just worked with on the commercials. And so when I showed up in October to do blackish, I at least felt I had shot and edited an episode of TV. And so some of the jitters were out but like, you know, when Laurence Fishburne walks on set,

Alex Ferrari 36:00
Morpheus, Morpheus, just

Pete Chatmon 36:01
You know, Tracee Ellis Ross, Anthony Anderson, Jennifer Lewis, like, you know, it's, it's different than I think, you know, all the shadowing that I did, I tried to treat it as if I had been hired to direct the episode. But when you really are there, and you're getting questions that you can't even anticipate, you know, what I mean? Or you're getting like, you know, you're dealing with interpersonal dynamics that you didn't put into your shot list. You know, I'm saying, like, like, it's just,

Alex Ferrari 36:37
That's very nicely, by the way, very nicely.

Pete Chatmon 36:41
Yeah, it's an element, you have to you have to rise to the moment and I feel like, you know, my thing was always, you know, talk slowly, but think quickly. And, and sometimes, like, you might feel like you're being silent for a while, and it might only be two seconds, but it's it's exaggerated in your, in your moment of feeling, inept, but I just never wanted to say anything that I didn't. I didn't believe or that I couldn't back up.

Alex Ferrari 37:12
So basically, what you're telling me is that you got a date with a really pretty girl in in October, and then all the other girls were like, well, he sent me he's gonna date her eventually, so we can date him now. And that's kind of like how it worked for you, but it isn't. You need to you need to be, you need to be you need to be Donnie Brasco. In this business, you need to have somebody vouch for you to be able to go oh, well, they vouched for him. And obviously he's got the goods, then we could hire him. But before that, before that Donnie Brasco moment, it's it's hard. It's not impossible. Right.

Pete Chatmon 37:51
And, and, and look, I was super fortunate that that first job was within a family. You know what I mean? Because I eventually did six grown ish, six blackish, and an episode of mixed ish, you know, and I'd be remiss to say to like, you know, I had a podcast in 2009 to 2011, with my buddy Anthony artists called the double down film show. And our final guest was Issa Rae, right after she raised the money for Awkward Black Girl to do like the final a big final episode. And so even that, like, there was a little bit of in the same way that there's a full circle with, you know, meeting Kenya Barris in 2002, you know, in 2011, there is that, in my branded content days, you know, I filmed a couple of interviews with her a year in like 2014 in New Orleans, you know what I mean? So it's just like, you're just marching along? And you don't you have all these kind of flanks that are all moving in the same direction. And you don't know, you know, when you're going to arrive at the at the target.

Alex Ferrari 39:01
Now, you kind of hinted at this, but I have to ask you, how do you deal with the politics of a set, which is something they definitely don't teach you on in film school, like the politics of inner interpersonal politics have nothing to do with you politics, I do have something to do with you. Or even crew members or actors, who are problems like meaning that they don't, they don't want to work with you that they have attitude. And then tear in film is a little different. Because if you're the director of a feature, it's a little you have a little bit more juice, but if you're, uh, you know, basically a freelancer coming in for one episode, how do you deal with that brother?

Pete Chatmon 39:38
Right. I mean, that's a great question. I first I never take anything personally, because there's so much that is connected to each person's livelihood and creative experience that I have nothing. I have no awareness of that. You know, and then there's personal stuff that people have going on. I just kind of like say, okay, Like, unless it's some wildly offensive, like, you're coming at me type stuff, you know, it's like, whatever. I also, again, I'm really trying to get a sense of the lay of the land because, you know, sometimes, you know, like shows that have been long running like you show up and like, it seems like people are talking to each other crazy, but they just been doing this for so long that family is a family, you know what I mean? But, um, so I try and find a way to give grace to that. I also learned in my faculty days, at NYU, there's a great deal of politics there, right. And I would just be like, Okay, I'm just, I'm paying attention. I don't really need to get involved here. Until it really seems like this is going to affect what I'm trying to do. So because sometimes there's a, there's somebody who's performative in their, in their outburst, or whatever mean, but like, until it's like, you know, we're going to take that class away from you, or we're going to change the curriculum, I'm just going to sit back here and be like, I'm watching. And now I maybe know where you stand. So a lot of it is really kind of, like choosing your battles and picking your moments. I feel like for the most part, if you do that, you'll be able to find a way to collaborate with anybody. I have had folks where my best efforts fell flat. And sometimes it's just about we just got to get the work done. You know what I mean? But even still, I never take it personally. And, and in a weird way, man, like karma. Karma does its own duty for you, you know.

Alex Ferrari 41:48
As they say, some famous person once said, Karma is a bitch. It's interesting, too, because there's no place anywhere that it's written, that you're supposed to have fun doing this job. It's, it'd be nice. It should be it should be fun. We're making movies, we're telling stories we're playing, make believe it should be fun. But there's no way that it's written that your DP has to be a cool dude. Or your or your or your executive producer, or the writer that you're working with, or somebody is, it's just a pain in the ass because of their own personal stuff, or their own baggage that they're bringing along. And you've got to learn how to deal with that. That's why I always tell people.

Pete Chatmon 42:31
Hey, I was gonna say, I will say, though, like, part of, I think, part of that, you know, there's, I don't know, if you have to curb your enthusiasm. You know, there's a, there's an episode where there had a dinner party and Larry, David's like, you know, you're not a good middle. Right. And it was like the person who was sitting in the middle of the table. You know, he's like, that person has a responsibility to conduct the conversation and keep it going. Right. And I feel like directing is kind of being a good middle. Like, you might even be a guest in this house. But like, can you keep things moving? Can you can you like, keep people excited and energized? And like, you know, like, can I bring an energy to this that, hopefully, maybe brings an energy out of people that they didn't have on last week's episode? So how can I take it upon myself to impact that? And also then make my experience better?

Alex Ferrari 43:35
Now is it meant if you had the opportunity to go back in time, and talk to little P? Little P who got it a Super Eight camera? That guy and go, Man, Pete? Listen, I know it. I know. I just I'm from I'm from the future. Ignore that for a second.

Pete Chatmon 43:53
I know it's weird.

Alex Ferrari 43:54
I know. It's weird. Just bear with me how like LeBron commercially, it's the old LeBron in the in the abroad, that kind of scenario. What would you tell yourself? What's the one thing that he's like, Man, listen, this is what you really got to look out for.

Pete Chatmon 44:10
I would just say, before the specificity of your question, I'd be like, I would say you're doing everything right. You know, you don't know it yet. But you are, you know, but if you're gonna ask me, what is the one thing you would look out for?

Alex Ferrari 44:26
Or be aware of, or,

Pete Chatmon 44:27
I would say, look out for yourself. Right? Because, you know, the, your real opponent is the person in the mirror. It's how long you can stay in the game. You know what I mean? And, and if you are aware of that, and if you can constantly check yourself, right? Because like, and I don't and I'm not trying to say like, people shouldn't have emotions and shit like you should like if you have a bad day, have a bad day. But like that doesn't If you had a bad week, right doesn't mean you have to, like, you know, throw things down the toilet or pivot away from like your dreams, like acknowledge the emotions and feelings, but just know that like, in trying to be positive about it, I'll say, not everybody is out here to keep you down or get you, but they're not necessarily working actively to boost you up. And that's fine. So like, don't do their job to yourself. Your job should be to make sure that you wake up every day and say, What do I need to do to attack this thing that I want? And I say attack and I need attack? You know what I mean? Because like, this is an active thing. This is a this isn't a, I mean, it's not whatever sound it's an aggressive thing. Yeah, you have to hustle America dry muscle, and be committed to it. And yeah, like, like, just remember, like, it's on, you know, obviously, there's all kinds of institutional shit and like, there's all kinds of other challenges and, and to, and there are outside forces, but like, it is on you to like, be aware of the forces that are particular to you, and then see what you can do to get around them. Because, you know, my, my outside forces as as a as a black guy trying to get into TV are different from, you know, Latin X woman or different from a military vet, or you know what I mean? Like, but still, your only opponent isn't, is in the mirror.

Alex Ferrari 46:38
There's enough obstacles in this on this road without you throwing some more in front of yourself.

Pete Chatmon 46:42
Right, but I always know. It's like in movies. I always like when when somebody like gets mad, and they trash their room. I'm like, I would never trash my room.

Alex Ferrari 46:51
I felt like destroying stuff through my journey in life. I've never like I gotta clean this up.

Pete Chatmon 46:58
I'll never trash my stuff.

Alex Ferrari 46:59
Oh, Never I'm not gonna throw throw my my life size Yoda against the wall. That's that's just crazy. Exactly. That's insane. You know, one thing I always wonder about because I haven't I've directed some television, but not at the level that you've directed television with, like a cast, the TV shows I've done mostly starting out in their one off miniseries kind of things. But when you're working with actors who know their characters better than you, much better than you. How do you direct that? What's your advice on that?

Pete Chatmon 47:35
You know, like, I mean, I'm looking right here, right, like I have on I have a post it note right here on my, on my computer. I have several ones. Right. I have, I think this is from Mike Nichols. He said, All scenes are all good scenes are either fights, negotiations or seduction, you know, through which a character is either nurturing, using or damaging. And so that is helpful to me in drawing out, you know, the best thing I've seen if perhaps it's not on the page. You know, when I talk to directors, I mean, when I talk to actors, I have things here like, I feel, I feel versus I think, because we can argue with what I think, you know, I think you should do try this, I think you should do this, well, I feel you should do this, you can't shoot that down in the same way, is as as I as I, as I feel. What if we were to, you know, instead of, let's do this, right, like, I remember the first time I said, Let's get one like this, and somebody was like, why don't want to do that, you know, I felt like, slapped, you know, and so how can I not feel that way? Again, I can change my language, you know, and also I'd like you to try. So it's, it's less about me imposing something, and more about me offering a road towards something that we can collaboratively agree on, you know, I'm saying, and even even, it's the same with working with with a with a DP like, I don't, I know this stuff. I don't I don't say throw a 35 on. I say, Let's get wider and do this and do that. You know what I mean? Like, and if they if they throw a 45 on it, like, let's get a little wider, you know, I mean, I don't I don't need to prescribe the exact path, because then I'm taking them out of the process. And so a lot of it I think question driven directing is much more successful in a for me not having somebody tell me no, and get me mad inside, and then be like, I can find out where they're coming from. You know, that times I'll even ask like, well, what's your approach here? What are you thinking in this moment? Because they may answer that question in a way that would totally nullify the note. I was I'm about to get, and I just saved myself embarrassment from looking like I don't understand what they're doing. And I think that's you that's a little more unique to TV perhaps because there's a, there's a protection over the character that, you know is the word choice is important. There's a longer connection to the character, where I think more things have been affirmed, versus on a film, we're looking to explore and find it. And so, you know, I'm also reading the person and seeing whether or not they are open to options. Because sometimes, you know, folks want to do it one way and like, feel that you're pulling the strings out from what they want to do. If you go get one different, or nuanced option, and maybe that's because every time they do, they use the other one, and they fuck up the overall performance in the actor's mind. So, you know, it's like, there's so many things that you're trying to read, engage. But in a nutshell, that's kind of the approach.

Alex Ferrari 51:08
That's a fantastic answer to that question. Because I've always I'm always fascinated about how you approach that love the question approach instead of, because in features is like, we're going to do this. Let's try this, because it's a feature. And we're still we're all kind of developing this character and this story as we're going along. But when you walk on blackish on season four, I mean, Lawrence, Laurence Fishburne already knows what Laurence Fishburne is gonna do.

Pete Chatmon 51:35
This thing, I think, I think we're all kind of at least I mean, maybe I am. I don't know if new younger folks are. But, you know, we're coming up. It was the idea. Like, the director was like this kind of like military drill sergeant, presidents who kind of, you know, commanded all things by Fiat. You know, what I mean? And like, I think that, you know, a, that's just part of how society was, you know, what I mean? And I, I personally don't feel the need to have that kind of presence. You know, because I know, I know that I'm, you know, again, these words get so I'm gonna say, I know that I'm in charge. And I, you know, I don't know if that's the right word. But I know that I'm like, captaining this ship, at least for responsible and responsible, right? Yep. And that doesn't have to feel like, I have to make you know.

Alex Ferrari 52:38
But that's, but that's, but that's a quiet confidence of just doing this so long that you don't need to prove anybody, anything to anybody. Because when you're younger, you're trying to prove all the time that you're you're supposed to be in the room. But when you get to our age, and we're in the room, we're in the room for a reason, man, we've lived life, we've got shrapnel and you know, the last thing I need to do is to prove to you that I can direct. Like, I've been doing this for a while, you know, I don't need to prove, like I'm trying to prove to you that I can conduct the conversation for a podcast, like I've done a couple of these. So it's just kind of like this. It's kind of like this couple, goodbye, a few. But the point is that you just feel comfortable. And you feel confident without arrogance. And that takes

Pete Chatmon 53:24
Yeah, and even now, man, like this is one thing I've been doing, as of, you know, the last maybe 10 episodes or so like, I'm no I used to always like I'd have my my iPad and script tation. And I'd be like, looking at the script while we're flipping the acting. And like, I don't even do that anymore. I don't even like, look at the script into rehearsal. Obviously, I prep and prep and prep from the script. But now like I just watch, and the moment it feels like I'm not watching something that I can see other people watching. Like, that's just the antenna that I'm governed by. And so sometimes they'll be like, Oh, wait, what's the line? I'd be like, ask the script supervisor. I don't know. That's their job. Like, I'm not trying before I would want Oh, I don't want to see like I don't know where I am in a script. Like, I don't know where we are in the script. But pick it up from you know, pick it up from what's tell them where to best pick up line is, you know, like, because my job is to is to preserve and protect the audience's experience and audiences not reading the fucking script.

Alex Ferrari 54:29
Isn't it interesting, though, like, I don't know about you, but when like when you first started in your 20s Man, you had everything down to that like you prepped and prepped and prepped and like you had storyboards and shot list and you and you were like over prepped. But then when nowadays you just get on the set and you're just like, I see what we can do guys. Let's just kind of feel it out today. You know, like I made like, I shot a whole feature that way. I just literally shot a whole feature. Yeah, we just got on location. All right. Take care. over there, let's put let's go through this whole thing. Alright, let's do this. That didn't work. Let's try it over that. And it's just kind of like it's jazz, you start becoming a jazz player. Yeah. As opposed to someone who's constantly reading music. Does that make sense?

Pete Chatmon 55:14
Oh, it makes perfect sense. You know, but the amount of the amount of music you have to have read to do that, right is, is is the is the thing that can be discounted, you know, and like, when when folks see people at the height of their craft, you know, what they don't see is the height of the prep, you know? So it's a, it's a, it's an earned it's an it's an earned approach.

Alex Ferrari 55:40
You know, it's interesting, like someone like Ridley Scott, who made his first feature at 40. And everyone's like, Oh, he's making his first feature at 40. And like, he had shot I think, 2500 commercials. He'd gotten saved. He's way past the 10,000 hour mark. Right. By the time he got his first future mentor, can you imagine what it's like walking on a set with Ridley now? I mean, I can't even comprehend the 1000s of hours that he has, that man has been on set. It's like his brother to Tony, they both were like that. And it's just that just just geniuses, they could just riff and they could just kind of go, but it takes time. It's not only how much music you read, how much music you write, as well, along that path? Yes. Without question, yeah. Now, as directors meant we, there's always a day on set that you feel like the entire world's coming down around you. It could be on the feature, it could be on the television, or you tell me which one it is. I always like to say most most directors like you mean every day, like, you know, not every day, but there's that one crazy, crazy day that you feel like the entire world's coming down around you like, I don't know, I don't know how we're gonna make it. I don't know how we're gonna get past it. That freeze technique that you use was could have been answered this question. But is there any other day that that happened to you? And how did you overcome that day?

Pete Chatmon 56:54
Man, you know, in the prep that we're talking about, that no one sees. You know, for me, like, I always, I always prep, and block scenes, as if I were making my feature. You know, that's always like my first swing, obviously, within the vein of the show, but like, my first swing is always like, I look at it, like, they'll never do, we don't have time for this, you know, but there are like kernels of something that are that indicate the kind of entry point to the scene that I can simplify. And so sometimes I ended up blocking scenes, three or four different ways before I'm like, okay, boom, that's what we're, that's what we'll start. That's what I that will be my target, because actors have points of view, and sometimes it changes, but like, I can always keep the essence of it, or I can pivot totally. So when things go haywire, oftentimes, I can kind of simplified down to what I like to think of as, like, the most important moment in the scene. Right? So like, if it's, if it's just like, all right, I gotta go, I gotta get real simple. And we got to do a winner. But the most important moment in the scene is this. And so we're going to make sure that that one or ends in a close up that I can tilt down in tag, whatever detail and then come back up and pan for the reaction, because that's the scene right there. You know, and so it's, it's kind of just knowing what the, you know, what the bare minimum is, as far as the audience understanding what what is happening, and knowing that all the toys and all the things and all the sauce that we can put on it are great, but at the end of the day, like, like, what's the what's the nutrient? And so, I mean, that happened, that happens all the time. I feel a little less pressure, I would, I will honestly say on on TVs, because more often than not, it's not my fault. You know what I mean? Like, if it's like, you know, I just did something last week, and like, the generator didn't work. So they had to go get another generator and bottom line, like, Yes, I had to become even more efficient, but I'm like, That shit ain't on me. Like,

Alex Ferrari 59:22
I didn't I didn't bring that generator. That's not my agenda.

Pete Chatmon 59:25
So I'm still gonna make the day like, I pride myself on making the day and I can make the adjustments. But, you know, if for some reason we can't, I mean, if everybody's being honest, we're all going to know why it didn't happen.

Alex Ferrari 59:39
Right! It wasn't because you were doing a 15 minute a webinar on a show that it's going to take maybe out of that 15 minute one or one minute.

Pete Chatmon 59:47
Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Alex Ferrari 59:50
It's not your extravagance is that a goddess here? It's the Jedi that didn't work, or the actor didn't want to come out of the trailer.

Pete Chatmon 59:57
Yeah. And then keeping a cool head to man like people There's like that that's so much of the job like, keeping a cool head and like, you know, if you think about, and this is TV specific, but like, I always make this statement, I feel like I need to go and actually do the math on this. But let's just say a day of shooting, you look at dailies, and you've got probably 30 to 40 minutes of footage, right? But you were there for 13 hours, right? So what people are going to remember, is that 13 hour experience with you not that 30 to 40 minutes of dailies, or at the end result, the 44 or 22 or 60 minutes show, and so like the experience that you give people as a person is arguably more or if not equally important to your work as a creative person.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:00
The best advice I always give filmmakers coming up like what's the best advice? I don't don't be a dick. Exactly. Yeah, don't be it. Because then there's people who have less talent, and are less experience. And I'll hire them faster, then I'll hire dick, who's more experienced and more talented. That's when you want to be on set for 13 hours with.

Pete Chatmon 1:01:19
Right. Right. Nobody needs nobody needs that in their life and like,

Alex Ferrari 1:01:24
And as you get older, but you just put up with less and less crap.

Pete Chatmon 1:01:28
Yeah. And that's why people work with the same people over and over again. It's like, I know what I know everything that's going to know all the vibes here. Yeah, perfect. Let's go.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:36
Let's rock and roll. Now, let's talk about your book transitions, man, because, you know, this is a book that I wish I had. I'm sure you wish you had it when we were coming up. Yeah, man. So tell me tell me what how that book came about? And what's the purpose of the book for the for the for the filmmaking community.

Pete Chatmon 1:01:53
It's exactly what you said it was I in all the years and that, you know, 99 to 2017 period, you know, I this this was what fed me, Word Wise, Fast Company, magazine, wired, you know, man, any, I forget what book club I was in, but I was getting books like, you know, 50 directors talk about their first, you know, their first feature. And, you know, I'm like one anecdote from that. I remember Mike figures had done whatever his first movie was, and I think he had a scene, I hope I'm not messing this up. But a scene that maybe were like, Tommy Lee Jones, or Edward James almost or something. And he ended up having to reshoot because he was kind of hesitant to give him the real thing. Like, he didn't know how to communicate the direction that he needed. And he just never did it. And it needed to reach you. And, and it was so tense, because now he's reshooting. It was like, I just need you to I can do this or whatever he said. And then he was like, oh, okay, I'll do that. Yeah, and this thing that he had been so apprehensive to do is like, you just got to do it. You know. So like, I was soaking up anecdotes like that, you know, reading story, you know, the 48 Laws of Power, the hero's journey, making a movie by Sidney Lumet all a Spike Lee's books, and I was just like, you know, I, I feel like there's a book that mixes all of these things that that is missing. And so, you know, initially, my book was called, Thanks for nothing. And it was, it was going to be I was after I raised, you know, 520,000 to make my feature. And I chronicled everything. And I was, like, I want to talk about how, like, not having had resources was the best thing for me, and how it shouldn't be a limitation for you. And then never wrote that, but like, I always kept a little document. And I would, and as I did more things, you know, shot my first commercial, did a music video for you know, six figures or whatever, I would kind of update and keep, like bullet points of what the lessons were. And so, once I got into TV, I was like, well, what's the real thing here? And, to me, the thing is, look at all these pivots. You know, I go from short filmmaker to feature filmmaker feature filmmaker to running my production company, you know, faculty member to you know, branded content guy, you know what I mean? And like, and now here, I'm at he Rhianna TV, and there have been principles along the way. So it's chronicling that journey. In a three act Hero's Journey structure with like the setup, the conflict, the resolution being getting that first episode, and then each chapter has a key word. That's kind of like the principles that guide you through this moment or this stage wherever it happens for you. And then lastly, it's like a mixture of like, how to inspiration and self help. And so that kinda like, I recognize that that was what I was always looking for in the things that I was reading. And so I wanted to merge everything into one. And, and then I have my own podcast, let's shoot with Pete Chapman. And so I took, I took 10 of the director conversations and have them in the back. So if you feel like, Oh, you're just hearing me talk about this stuff like, Well, no, you can listen to Oscar winning Matthew cherry, or, you know, Rob McElhenney, or Michael spiller or Millicent Shelton like and really get kind of, kind of hear the principles over and over again, that all these creative folks have had to subscribe to on their journey. And so yeah, that's the long winded kind of full, full throated, like genesis of the book. But like, it's been great, because I've found like, a lot of the responses and reviews have been that it's done exactly. For people what I don't,

Alex Ferrari 1:05:58
That's awesome, man. And I'm so glad that this book exists, and it's out there for people. As you know, I this is what I do all the time trying to help filmmakers along the along the path and, and let them know that they're gonna get slapped in the face and prepare for that slap. Just understand where you're going, and how, and get ready, get ready, and how you're gonna have to how long it's gonna take to get to where you are, man. But I'm glad that you put something together that as tools that people can really use and demystify a little bit of, like I always say Hollywood's real good at the sizzle, but subset the steak. And it's so damn true, right? It's so damn,

Pete Chatmon 1:06:38
Big fajita tray coming to your table.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:41
Basically eat a tray. But then it's like, oh, it's Taco Bell. Oh, man, what happened? Exactly. Now, one thing I wanted to ask you about because you've been able to do this, and you talk about it in your book, The the importance of pivoting and understand how to pivot. So many filmmakers and screenwriters for that matter, going through the business, they get stuck on one thing, and they can't see past it. So like, I'm only going to be a feature director, I'm only going to be a music video director, I'm only going to do commercials. And when other opportunities present themselves. They don't pivot. And you went from feature to television. I don't know if television was always the goal or not. But But you started off in shorts and features. So can you talk a little bit about that importance of being able to just kind of move and shake as things come at you?

Pete Chatmon 1:07:31
Yeah, yeah, man. I mean, look, I noticed in like the late aughts, I guess that's what people say, right? You know, oh, nine, like a friend of mine, seeth man, who's also in the anecdotes at the back of the book. He had done the disney abc program, and he ended up directing on Grey's Anatomy, and then the wire. And I was just watching like, Man, this is like, TV's kind of where the stories are, you know what I mean? Like, it was early in the shift. And it would only be cemented year after year as like, you know, the golden age of television revealed itself through new shows after new show. And so. And I also had the experience of six years to raise money for feature, which I paid myself $15,000 I'm like, this ain't sustainable. And so and if I'm a director, I want to direct I'll do anything that's, I want to go where the storytelling is, right. So that's why branded content commercials, music videos, TV film, like I'm trying to I have a feature script I have to finish in September, because I still want to direct films. And so yeah, man, it was just like, how do I get into that space? I looked at what was happening. I had I have my friend seat as like a kind of aspirational target look like Well, here's a guy that I know that did it. I know plenty of people who are going through these programs and aren't but like, here's somebody I literally can call and I know that did it. And so I just attacked it in the only way that I could which which was through these director programs, because it's such a either nepotistic or who you know, kind of dynamic of, well, how do I get into some category of being known? And so that was how that worked for me. And then even in that even in there, once I was kind of big toe in the door, I had to think about what what is the target? And you know, again, all these boring sports analogies, but like, what's the target? And it's like, well, I want to continue to be able to do like everything. So we made with my team, and at their suggestion to, you know, we made a concerted effort to go after half our single camera comedies. So it was and like, Oh, I'm just saying I want to do TV, it's like, I want to do half hour single camera comedies. Because both in front of the camera like Jamie Foxx are behind the camera like Adam McKay, you know, you've seen people go from comedy to drama, but not really the other. And so while I was trying to break in on comedy, I was also where I could having meetings with drama folks, you know, and shadowing on drama shows where I could, so I could someday get, you know, both of those feathers in my cap. And that was, I mean, it was a very concerted effort. And so like, the last year, or two of like, doing things like the flight attendant, and you, and then you know, even like, this kind of like genre blending things like love life, you know, like, that's been something that I've that I was trying to pivot toward from the beginning of ever getting an episode. And so, you know, I think it's important to kind of remain open, I think being platform agnostic is is a good idea. Because, you know, one thing I haven't ever done is a multicam. And I want to, and I need to because A, there are great multicam shows, but B for all we know, half our single camera comedies could could lose their their luster, it's cheaper to make a multi cameras. So anyway, and they might studios and networks might decide we're only doing that for the next three years. And then what are you going to say, Oh, I don't want to work.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:41
And that's the thing. The business for so many years, the business stayed the way it was for, you know, like 70 years. No films or films, you know, at here's the whole process from the filmmaking process to how I got out in the television was that then the cable companies came in and started messing things up, then VHS started to come in with streaming situations showed up, it changed the game completely again. So if you aren't, and now things are moving so quickly, and so differently, and so fast, things that were true a year ago are not true now. And then the pandemic happened, and then everything went out the window now. And then everything everyone started. So if you don't have the skill of pivoting, you won't make it long term. You won't make it long term, and you have to have that skill. And I love that. Yeah, it's rare to find a director who does blackish and Grey's Anatomy, you know, like, it's not that's not a television. Well, that's not normal. Normally, right

Pete Chatmon 1:12:37
No, there's not I mean, I, I mean, I know who I know, that kind of do or does about comedy and drama, but it's not. It's not 10 people, you know, and then also to man, like, you know, I feel very fortunate because I do I do networks, like I just wrapped Grey's Anatomy on Monday, and my next show will be the reboot of fatal attraction for Paramount plus with Joshua Jackson and Lizzie Kaplan. So that's a that's the streaming thing it's going to be it's like eight episodes, it's going to be doing all eight are you? I'm doing I'm doing the second the last episode, okay, you know, and then after that, I'm gonna go through the show Minx, which is HBO Max, and it's a period piece. It's a woman who kind of starts at playboy. playgirl asked magazine in the 70s. And it deals with a lot. It's a commentary on a lot of issues that affect women. And then after that, I'm going to do American auto, you know what I mean? And it's like, it's like, I love to kind of hop back and forth between these different things. And each show or each genre requires a different, like, approach, because some you tell the story with the camera, others, you have to find how to let the joke happen on screen in an interesting way. And yeah, man, it's a it's a, it's a concerted effort to be able to, to find opportunities and all of those.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:04
Now, brother, I'm gonna ask you a few questions, ask all of my guests. What advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today?

Pete Chatmon 1:14:13
So as a filmmaker trying to break into the business today, I would say first, to start positive, you know, you're breaking into it at a time where it's easier than ever to break into it. And you probably have more access to education than anyone ever before, even if you don't go to a film school. So go ahead and make something I would, I would challenge them, though, to think about what is important to them, what kind of it what kind of stories they would have responded to in the books or films that they've watched or read, and try and hone in as quickly as possible on the things that they'd like to be involved with saying that And then once they figure that out, try everything, try every position, you know, need as many people as you can, and just, you know, make a project every quarter. Every year you come out with four things.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:17
And that IMDb gets fatter and fatter All right, what is the what is what did you learn from your biggest failure?

Pete Chatmon 1:15:29
This is an interesting question, man. Because it's funny, man, I, I don't like, I don't look at things as failure. So I'm trying to, I'm trying to like, change that perspective to answer the question.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:47
Something that didn't go the way you'd like it to go, sir.

Pete Chatmon 1:15:49
Yeah. I guess that you know, I would say that, collectively, my, my failures would be moments where I failed to read the room. And so like, I'm thinking back to a project that, you know, it was early in my career, it was not a TV show. It was a web series. And like, people were asking me for, like, a shot list. And I was like, No. Like, no, I got this, like, you're good. Trust me, you know, and like, I it was like, 10 Page day that I was always making the day, and you locations were fluctuating. And so I was just kind of, like, it's a, I only got so much time in the day, to produce a shot list that I'm not necessarily going to like, adhere to feels like not the best use of my time. And so I was leading with that as an example. But on their end, it's a big project for them, you know, they don't know me, like, I know me. And they can't eat a bagel at craft service, with the same level of comfort. Of like, Pete's got it as they would have if they had some shot list that I wrote and say, here's what we're doing today. You know, and, and I could think of a variety of examples where a little misreading of the room, left people with a feeling that they didn't need to have, and I could have easily taken care of that. Now, at that moment in time, my process wasn't as sharp as it is today. So it was still harder to do but like, you know, you have to be able to look at something and say, Well, what was my involvement in that? And maybe, you know, instead of a no in that situation, I could have explained what I just explained to you which is like we don't have time proud you know, but how about we talk it out every morning? Whatever, you know what I mean? Like something give him some general bone give him something. So I would think I think listeners viewers extrapolate that as you want but I think failure to read the room is the Doom which is always what you can point back to for anything that doesn't go as well. Is it good?

Alex Ferrari 1:18:36
I have a challenge for you sir. Next Next job you go on, I want you to wear a t shirt and the backer says Pete's got it and just walk on the set. With a T in the back front on the front assess director on the back assist Pete's got it.

Pete Chatmon 1:18:49
Yeah, I like that. I like that. I'll report back let you know.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:55
I mean, and let me know how hard it is to get the next job after that. Sure. So Alex, I was fired off that. And now my agents will return my calls.

Pete Chatmon 1:19:04
Now I'm now I'm doing radio.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:07
Now I'm doing podcast I mean, seriously. Now, what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film business or in life?

Pete Chatmon 1:19:17
I would say the lesson that it took me the longest to learn was work smarter, not harder. Because you part of your fuel. It's like, it's like going back to like that, that thing we were talking about earlier, the quote that I can't attribute to the person. You know, like, we're guided by our tastes until our talent can match it more or less. Like the other the flip side of that is, are they also included in that as like, we're guided by our hustle. And also being from New York. There's just something about like, I'm not working you you know, I mean, like I'm up earlier than you. laid it in you, you know, you eat lunch. I Don't you know, I mean, like, it's stuff like that. And so, but that that's not a, something you can do forever and be, you know, particularly particularly with the birth of our daughter, like, I can't I can't prep all weekend now. You know, that's not that's not what what I want to do you know what I mean? So it means that I have to be very, like strategic and methodical and deliberate about how I prep and take incoming matters and prioritize them. So that I'm dealing with what I need to deal with now for whatever is my next immediate milestone. And, you know, that takes a little while because it's like, well, that's not my process. I like to do this, I did that I was like, Well, you got a concept meeting today at noon. So skim through the script, and what you got to talk about, you can't highlight shit, you don't have time for it, you got to script it's more. So like, it's not my process. That's not my process. So you just have to, you just have to, you have to be nimble and flexible. And trust that. Now that you been hustling for so long, you've got the experience level to pivot from what made you comfortable before and find new, you know, new footing to land on and you'll still be just as, as great.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:34
I'm gonna just tell you a quick story that illustrates exactly what you said, when I was a kid. I was 20 something playing tennis like a madman. And one day I went to play tennis and there was like, this older dude, probably like in his at the time late 50s was older dude. Now we look at it like that's a young man, what are you talking about? But when you're your 20s, it was like this old dude. He's like, you want to play like, Yeah, let's play. And I was just 20 year old like, like that young that and this guy just sat in one fell on the tennis court and just went, and I'm running to this run. He just knew where to hit the ball. And I was working harder. smarter, and I never forgot that lesson. I was like, Man, how would you do that? It goes, I just put the ball where you weren't?

Pete Chatmon 1:22:26
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just simple as that. Meanwhile, you're trying to blaze a forehand down the line where he's standing and he's like,

Alex Ferrari 1:22:34
Nno, no, I'm trying to reinvent the forehand in your own mind to hit the forehand, like no one has ever hit before. That's that's what you want.

Pete Chatmon 1:22:44
With topspin and slice?

Alex Ferrari 1:22:48
Which smoke that comes off. Last question, sir. three of your favorite films of all time.

Pete Chatmon 1:22:56
Oh, boy. Okay. Okay. Okay. So in No, man, that's fucking Okay. In no particular order. And I'll give a little reason with each. I will say Casablanca. Just just the perfect film, a film about the war made during the war. That it's about a little bit of a musical love story. Drama. Can't tell me it's not funny. It's funny as hell telling me it's not funny. You know, like, that's a good ass movie. I'm such a big fan of Spike. I love do the right thing. But I'm thinking I'm gonna say x, Malcolm X.

Alex Ferrari 1:23:42
That's a tough choice between the two men because x is a masterpiece. But yeah, but do the right thing did that. It's not only a masterpiece, but it just exploded on the scene. Like he was already spike. Yeah. Next. But men do the right thing, man when it came out. I was working at the video store. Yeah, I was working at the video store. Man. I was like, you gotta watch do the right thing. Like, it just exploded. There's few movies.

Pete Chatmon 1:24:11
It was visceral filmmaking. And, you know, but but x is like, it's like, it's like working at it's like, like all the films you've done before. Have like, prepared you for this film. And then just the performances is phenomenal from Denzel so that I'd say those two and then this might be weird, but maybe not. I'll say seven.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:38
Oh, it's one of my top five. Yeah, I'm a feature fanatic. Essentially. Yeah.

Pete Chatmon 1:24:43
It's that's, that's also I think, a perfect film in many ways. And I think for when it came out, it was one of the earliest representations of genre blending to a new degree, which is like it's like it's a buddy cop car. Ready to some degree. It's a thriller. It's a horror film. It's, you know, all of these things, and it leans on the right tone, and the right filmmaking tools in the right moments. And I think that's kind of what today's television does. There's genre blending. That gives you a little bit of what you know. But you know, a percentage of what you don't. But because you're able to anchor it in these genres you're familiar with, I think people going to ride with you.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:39
Right, and Yellowstone, and Breaking Bad and those kinds of things. Yeah, like, you can't tell me those aren't funny shows. But yeah, yeah. Now, I Brother, I appreciate your work. By the way, where can people buy your book? Where can people find out more about you and what you're doing my friend?

Pete Chatmon 1:25:57
Oh, yeah. So you can buy the book on Amazon or Goodreads. It's called transitions, directors journey and motivational handbook. I hope you buy it. I hope you review it. Let people know that you like it. I've also got a podcast called Let's shoot with Pete Chatmon, which is available everywhere. Spotify, Apple, all that good stuff. And then I'm at Pete Chatmon on Instagram and Twitter. And, yeah, I'm more active on Instagram. I find I'm not witty enough on Twitter. You know, don't have time to be witty. I got time to post this picture. But um, yeah, I love to share behind the scenes content and kind of go on some rants here and there about about the industry and filmmaking and directing. And yeah, man, this has been awesome to chat with you, Alex. I love what you're doing. I think it's a it's a fuel for for creative souls out there. So please keep doing it. And yeah, man, it's been it's been great to wrap it up, man. I really appreciate it.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:06
And I appreciate you for writing the book and for everything you do and being an inspiration to young young filmmakers around the world. And just I thank you, man. Thank you for your hard work as well, brother. Thank you, man.

Pete Chatmon 1:27:18
Appreciate you sir!

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David Lynch’s Short Film: Lady Blue Shanghai

Lady Blue Shanghai is a 16-minute Internet promotion short film for Dior written, directed and edited by David Lynch. It stars Marion Cotillard, Gong Tao, Emily Stofle, Cheng Hong, Lu Yong and Nie Fei, with music by Lynch, Dean Hurley, and Nathaniel Shilkret.

Download the David Lynch Screenplay Collection in PDF

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Want to watch more short films by legendary filmmakers?

Our collection has short films by Martin Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino, the Coen Brothers, Chris Nolan, Tim Burton, Steven Spielberg & more.

David Fincher: The Ultimate Guide to His Films & Directing Style

1999 was a watershed year for people in my generation, as it no doubt was for other generations as well. On the eve of the new millennium, we were caught in a place between excitement and apprehension.

The 21st century loomed large with promises of technological and sociological innovations, yet we were beset by decidedly 20th century baggage, like an adultery scandal in the White House or the nebulous threat of Y2K.

This potent atmosphere naturally created its fair share of zeitgeist pop culture work, but no works had more of an impact on the public that year than The Wachowski Brothers’ THE MATRIX and David Fincher’s FIGHT CLUB. I was only in middle school at the time, but FIGHT CLUB in particular captivated my friends and I with the palpable substance behind its visceral style.

As a kid already consumed by a runaway love for movies, FIGHT CLUB was one of the earliest instances in which I was acutely aware of a director’s distinct voice. As such, the films of director David Fincher were among the first that I sought out as a means to study film as an art form and a product of a singular creative entity.

His easily identifiable aesthetic influenced me heavily during those early days, and despite having taken cues from a much larger world of film artists as I’ve grown, Fincher’s unique worldview still shapes my own in a fundamental way.

David Fincher was essentially the first mainstream feature director to emerge from the world of music videos. Ever the technological pioneer, David Fincher innovated several ideas about the nascent music video format that are still in use today. This spirit of innovation and a positive shooting experience on the set of 2007’s ZODIAC eventually led to him becoming a key proponent of digital filmmaking before its widespread adoption.

A student of Stanley Kubrick’s disciplined perfectionism and Ridley Scott’s imaginative world-building, David Fincher established his own voice with a cold, clinical aesthetic that finds relevancy in our increasing dependency and complicated relationship with technology.

David Fincher was born in 1962, in Denver, Colorado. His father, Howard, worked as the bureau chief for LIFE Magazine and his mother, Claire Mae, worked in drug addition facilities as a mental health nurse.

David Fincher spent most of his formative years in northern California’s Marin County (a setting he’d explore in his features THE GAME (1997) and ZODIAC), as well as the small town of Ashland, Oregon. Inspired by George Ray Hill’s BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID (1969), an 8 year-old David Fincher started to make little movies of his own using his family’s 8mm film camera.

Having grown up in a time when film schools were well established, David Fincher—rather interestingly—opted against them in favor of going directly into the workforce under Korty Films and Industrial Light and Magic (where we would work on 1983’s RETURN OF THE JEDI).

It was David Fincher’s time at ILM specifically that would shape his fundamental understanding of and appreciation for visual effects, and his incorporation of ILM’s techniques into his music videos no doubt led to his breakout as a director.

AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: “SMOKING FETUS” (1984)

At the age of 22, David Fincher directed his very first professional work, an anti-smoking ad for the American Cancer Society called“SMOKING FETUS”. Anti-smoking ads are infamous for being shocking and transgressive as a means to literally scare people out of lighting up.

“SMOKING FETUS” was the spot that undoubtedly started it all by featuring a fetus in utero, taking a long drag from a cigarette. The crude puppetry of the fetus is horrifying and nightmarish—an unholy image that delivers a brilliant whallop.

David Fincher has often been called a modern-day Kubrick because of his visual precision and notoriety for demanding obscene numbers of takes—a comparison made all the more salient when given that both men shared a thematic fascination with man’s relationship (and conflict with) technology.

David Fincher’s modeling of his aesthetic after Kubrick’s can be seen even in his earliest of works. Shot against a black background, the fetus floating in space resembles the Star Child of 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY (1968). “SMOKING FETUS” brought David Fincher to the attention of Propoganda Films, who subsequently signed him on in earnest, effectively launching his career.


RICK SPRINGFIELD: “DANCE THIS WORLD AWAY” (1984)

Due to the strength of “SMOKING FETUS”, 80’s rock superstar Rick Springfield enlisted David Fincher to direct his 1984 concert film, THE BEAT OF THE LIVE DRUM. The responsibility also entailed the shooting of four pre-filmed music videos to incorporate into the live show.

“DANCE THIS WORLD AWAY” features three vignettes: a man dancing amongst the ruins of a post-apocalyptic wasteland, a happy-go-lucky TV show for kids, and a ballroom filled with socialites oblivious to the nuclear missile launching from underneath the dance floor. The piece establishes several traits that David Fincher would incorporate into his mature aesthetic like stylized, theatrical lighting, an inspired use of visual effects and elaborate production design.


RICK SPRINGFIELD: “CELEBRATE YOUTH” (1984)

“CELEBRATE YOUTH” is presented in stark black and white, punctuated by bright pops of color like the red of Springfield’s bandana or the indigo of a child’s sneakers. This conceit further points to David Fincher’s familiarity with special effects, as such a look requires the shooting of the original footage in color and isolating specific elements in post production.

The look predates a similar conceit used by Frank Miller’s SIN CITY (both the 2005 film and the comic it was based upon), so it’s reasonable to assume that David Fincher’s video very well could have served as an influence for Miller. “CELEBRATE YOUTH” also highlights David Fincher’s inspired sense of camera movement, utilizing cranes and dollies to add energy and flair to the proceeds.


RICK SPRINGFIELD: “BOP TIL YOU DROP” (1984)

“BOP TIL YOU DROP” tells David Fincher’s first narrative story in the form of a slave revolt inside of a futuristic METROPOLIS-style dystopia. This is Fincher’s earliest instance of world-building, using elaborate creature and set design, confident camera movements and theatrical lighting (as well as lots of special visual effects) to tell an archetypal story of revolution.


RICK SPRINGFIELD: “STATE OF THE HEART”(1984)

Rounding out David Fincher’s quartet of Rick Springfield videos is “STATE OF THE HEART”, which compared to the others, is relatively sedate and low-key in its execution. While the piece takes place inside of a single room, David Fincher still brings a sense of inspired production design in the form of a cool, metallic color palette. Indeed, “STATE OF THE HEART” is the first instance within Fincher’s filmography of the cool, steely color palette that would later become his signature.


THE BEAT OF THE LIVE DRUM (1984)

All of the aforementioned music videos, while capable of acting as standalone pieces, were produced for eventual incorporation into Rick Springfield’s larger concert film, THE BEAT OF THE LIVE DRUM.

With his first feature-length work, David Fincher more or less follows the established format of concert films—performance, audience cutaways, wide shots that give us the full scope of the theatrics, etc. He makes heavy use of a crane to achieve his shots, partly out of necessity since he can’t exactly be on-stage, yet it still shows a remarkable degree of confidence in moving the camera on David Fincher’s part.

And while it probably wasn’t Fincher’s idea or decision, THE BEAT OF THE LIVE DRUM contains a pretty blatant Kubrick nod in the form of a guitarist wearing Malcolm McDowell’s iconic outfit from A CLOCKWORK ORANGE (1971).

The concert film format doesn’t allow much room for David Fincher to exercise his personal artistic voice, but he does manage to add a few stylistic flourishes in the form of visual effects that were added in after the live filming.

He adds a CGI blimp hovering over the stage, as well as fireballs that erupt from various places throughout the stadium (several audience cutaways appear blatantly staged to accommodate the inclusion of these effects).

Despite being something of a time capsule for ridiculous 80’s hair rock, it’s a high quality romp through Springfield’s discography that briskly clips along its brief 70 minute running time without ever really sagging.

Fincher’s involvement with THE BEAT OF THE LIVE DRUM wasn’t going to net him any opportunities to transition into features, but it did generate a significant amount of buzz for him in the music video and commercial world, where he’d spend the better part of a decade as one of the medium’s most sought-after directors.

The success of THE BEAT OF THE LIVE DRUM (1984), director David Fincher’s feature-length concert film for Rick Springfield, led to a very prolific period of music video assignments for the burgeoning auteur. In three short years, David Fincher established himself as a top music video director, held in high regard and higher demand by the biggest pop artists of the era. It was the golden age of music videos, and Fincher was the tastemaker at the forefront developing it into a legitimate art form.


THE MOTELS: “SHAME” (1985)

In his early professional career, Fincher’s most visible influence is the work of brothers Ridley and Tony Scott, two feature directors who were quite en vogue at the time due to blockbuster, high-fashion work like BLADE RUNNER (1982) and THE HUNGER (1983). Tony in particular was a key aesthetic influence, with David Fincher borrowing the English director’s love for theatrical lighting and the noir-ish slat shadows cast by venetian blinds.
For The Motels’ “SHAME”, Fincher makes heavy use of this look in his vignette of a woman stuck in a motel room who dreams of a glamorous life outside her window. Because computer-generated imagery was still in its infancy at the time, Fincher’s penchant for using special effects in his music video work is limited mostly to compositing effects, like the motion billboard and the fake sky behind it.


THE MOTELS: “SHOCK” (1985)

David Fincher’s second video for the Motels features lead singer Martha Davis as she’s chased by an unseen presence in a dark, empty house late at night. The concept allows Fincher to create an imaginative lighting and production design scheme.“SHOCK” also makes lurid use of Fincher’s preferred cold color palette, while a Steadicam rig allows David Fincher to chase Martha around the house like a gliding, ominous force. This subjective POV conceit echoes a similar shot that David Fincher would incorporate into his first feature, 1992’s ALIEN 3, whereby we assume the point of view of a xenomorph as it chases its victims down a tunnel. The piece also feature some low-key effects via a dramatic, stormy sky.


THE OUTFIELD: “ALL THE LOVE IN THE WORLD” (1986)

By 1986, David Fincher’s music video aesthetics were pretty well-established: cold color palettes, theatrical lighting schemes commonly utilizing venetian blinds, and visual effects. While The Outfield’s “ALL THE LOVE IN THE WORLD” was shot on film, David Fincher embraces the trappings of the nascent video format by incorporating tape static and a surveillance-style van.


THE OUTFIELD: “EVERY TIME YOU CRY” (1986)

David Fincher’s second video for The Outfield in 1986, “EVERY TIME YOU CRY”, is a concert performance piece a la THE BEAT OF THE LIVE DRUM. Like the latter’s incorporation of rudimentary visual effects, here Fincher uses the technology to replace the sky with a cosmic light show and add in a dramatic moonrise.


HOWARD HEWETT: “STAY” (1986)

In “STAY”, a piece for Howard Hewett, David Fincher makes use of another of Tony Scott’s aesthetic fascinations—billowing curtains. He projects impressionistic silhouettes onto said curtains, giving his cold color palette some visual punch.


JERMAINE STEWART: “WE DON’T HAVE TO TAKE OUR CLOTHES OFF” (1986)

While Jermaine Stewart’s “WE DON’T HAVE TO TAKE OUR CLOTHES OFF” is a relatively conventional music video, David Fincher’s direction of it is anything but. The core aesthetic conceit of the piece is the playful exploration of aspect ratio boundaries. David Fincher conceives of the black bars at the top and bottom of your screen as arbitrary lines in physical space, so when the camera moves to the side, those lines skew appropriately in proportion to your perspective. He takes the idea a step further by superimposing performance elements shot in the 1.85:1 aspect ratio over the main 2.35:1 anamorphic footage, giving the effect of visuals that transcend the constraints and the edges of their frame.

You can watch the video here.


COMMERICALS & MUSIC VIDEO (1988-1990)

Throughout the 80’s, David Fincher became a director in high demand thanks to his stunning music videos. As he crossed over into the world of commercials, his imaginative style and technical mastery began to command the attention of studio executives, who desired to see his visceral aesthetic to features. During the late 80’s and early 90’s, Fincher churned out some of his most memorable music video work and worked with some of the biggest stars around.


YM MAGAZINE “HER WORLD” (1988)

While his “SMOKING FETUS” spot for the American Cancer Society in 1984 was his first commercial, Fincher’s “HER WORLD”, a spot commissioned by Young Miss Magazine, kicked off his commercial directing career in earnest. The spot stars a young, pre-fame Angelina Jolie walking towards us, clutching a copy of YM Magazine as several cars painted with the words “sex, “love”, “work”, “family”, and others zip and crash around her in a ballet of violence. Even when working in the branding-conscious world of advertising, Fincher is able to retain his trademark aesthetic (indeed, you don’t hire someone like Fincher if you want a friendly, cuddly vibe). His characteristic cold color palette is accentuated by stark lighting and slick streets. An eye for stylized violence that would give 1999’s FIGHT CLUB its power can be glimpsed here through the jarring collisions of the cars.


Alien 3 (1992)

The runaway success of director James Cameron’s ALIENS sequel in 1986 turned the property into a major franchise for Twentieth Century Fox. Executives wanted to strike with a third ALIEN film while the iron was hot, but coming up with the right story proved tricky.

Adding to the threequel’s film’s development woes, a revolving door of writers and directors experienced immense frustration with a studio that was too meddlesome with its prized jewel of a franchise.

In a long search for an inexperienced, yet talented, director that they could control and micromanage, Fox settled on David Fincher—a rising star in the commercial and music video realm with a professed love for the ALIEN franchise and its founding director, Ridley Scott.

Fincher jumped at the offer to direct his first feature film, but in retrospect it was a naïve move that almost destroyed his career before it even began. His supreme confidence and bold vision clashed with the conservative executives, causing a long, miserable experience for the young director.

He eventually disowned ALIEN 3, abandoning it to flail and die at the box office. However, as Fincher has grown to become recognized as one of America’s major contemporary auteurs, his debut has undergone something of a reappraisal in the film community, with fans choosing to see the good in it instead of the bad.

More than twenty years after its release, ALIEN 3’s legacy to the medium is that it makes a hard case against the kind of filmmaking-by-committee that meddlesome studio executives still impose on gifted visionaries to this day.

ALIEN 3 picks up where ALIENS left off, with Lt. Ripley (Sigourney Weaver), Hicks (Michael Biehn), and Newt (Carrie Henn) resting in cryosleep as their ship, The Sulaco, drifts peacefully through space.

However, in their hibernating state, they are unaware of the fact that an alien facehugger has stowed away onboard their craft. Its attempts to penetrate and impregnate our heroes leads to a fire on deck and the cryosleep chambers are jettisoned away in an escape pod that crash lands on nearby on Fiorina 161, a sulfurous industrial prison planet colloquially known as Fury.

Tragically, Hicks and Newt don’t survive the crash, but Ripley does when she’s discovered by a group of inmates and nursed back to health. Once restored, Ripley finds herself thrust into an all-male, religious extremist culture that hasn’t seen a woman in decades.

Ripley quickly toughens up to counter the sexual aggression of the inmates, but her problems multiply when its discovered that one of the alien xenomorphs has followed her to Fury 161 and is picking off the inmates one by one.

A distress signal is dispatched to a rescue ship, but Ripley and the inmates still have to contend with the xenomorph before help arrives, a task made all the more difficult by the lack of conventional weapons anywhere in the prison facility, as well as the discovery that Ripley is hosting the embryo of a new egg-laying Queen alien inside of her.

In her third performance as Ripley, Weaver yet again transforms the character via a radical evolution into a tough, resilient survivor. Her arc throughout the three films is compelling, and for all the controversies over the film’s storyline, Weaver deserves a lot of credit for never phoning it in when she very easily could have.

Hers is the only familiar face in this hellish new world, save for the mutilated visage of Lance Henriksen’s android Bishop (and his flesh-and-blood counterpart that appears towards the end of the film).

Among the fresh blood, so to speak, Charles S. Dutton, Charles Dance and Pete Postlethwaite stand out as the most compelling inmates on Fury 161. Dutton plays Dillon, a tough, righteous voice of spiritual authority that the other inmates can rally behind.

Dance plays Clemens, the sensitive, intellectual medical officer who helps Ripley acclimate to this harsh world and harbors a dark secret of his own. The late, great character actor Postlethwaite plays David, an observant prisoner with a high degree of intelligence.

David Fincher’s collaborations with director of photography Jeff Cronenweth in the music video realm led to Fincher hiring his father, the legendary Jordan Cronenweth, as ALIEN 3’s cinematographer. Best known for his work on Ridley Scott’s seminal 1982 masterpiece, BLADE RUNNER (itself a huge influence on Fincher’s aesthetic), Cronenweth was being slowly consumed by Parkinsons Disease during filming.

The earliest of ALIEN 3’s several considerable production woes, Cronenweth’s condition deteriorated so quickly that cinematographer Alex Thomson had to step in and replace him only two weeks into the shoot. Despite this setback, ALIEN 3 is a visual stunner that firmly established David Fincher’s uncompromising style in the feature realm.

Fincher’s stark, grungy aesthetic translates well into the theatrical anamorphic aspect ratio format, with the smoky, industrial production design by Norman Reynolds giving Fincher plentiful opportunities to incorporate artful silhouettes and his signature cold, desaturated color palette (only David Fincher can make a palette that deals heavily in oranges and browns feel “cold”).

Fincher’s emphasis on architecture and world-building manifests in a subtle, surprising way—he chooses to shoot a great deal of the film in low angle shots that look up at the characters and expose the ceiling. This creates an air of helplessness that pervades the film, like we’re way over our heads and drowning in despair.

While this hopeless mood ultimately might have contributed to the film’s failure at the box office, it’s an inspired way for David Fincher to communicate a real, tangible world that draws us into it—most sets are built without a ceiling so a lighting grid can be easily installed overhead, but by showing the audience the existence of a ceiling, it subconsciously tells us we are in a place that exists in real life… and that the events of the film could very well happen to us.

Fincher and Thomson’s camerawork in ALIEN 3 is also worth noting. Fincher has always had a firm, visionary command of camera movement, and the considerable resources of studio backing allows him to indulge in sweeping, virtuoso moves that bring a fresh, terrifying energy to the film.

A particular highlight is a tunnel sequence towards the end of the film, where the xenomorph chases the inmates through a huge, twisting labyrinth. David Fincher uses a steadicam that assumes the POV of the Xenomorph as it rages through the tunnels, twisting and spinning at seemingly impossible angles to communicate the alien’s terrifying agility and speed.

The industrial, foreboding nature of Fincher’s visuals are echoed in composer Elliot Goldenthal’s atmospheric score. Instead of using traditional symphonic arrangements, Goldenthal blurs the line between music and sound effects by incorporating non-instruments and electronic machinations into an atonal blend of sounds.

In many ways, this approach proves to be even scarier than a conventional orchestral sound could conjure up. To reflect the medieval, religious nature of Fury 161’s inhabitants, Goldenthal also adapts haunting choral requiems that weave themselves into his tapestry of ominous sounds and tones.

ALIEN 3’s infamous production disasters are well documented, hopefully as a means to ensure that the film industry as a collective learns from the production’s mistakes. These woes began during the earliest stages of pre-production which saw the hiring and resigning of director Renny Harlin before Vincent Ward came onboard for a short period to realize his vision of a wooden cathedral planet populated by apocalyptic monks.

While a semblance of this conceit remains in the finished film, the script was changed radically several times before cameras started rolling, and even then the filmmakers didn’t have a finished version to work from. The ramifications of this were numerous, from actors being frustrated with constantly-changing character arcs, plot inconsistencies, and even $7 million being wasted on sets that were built and never used.

The process was particularly hard on David Fincher, who was constantly fighting a losing battle against incessant studio meddling that overruled his decisions and undermined his authority. Fed up with the lack of respect his vision was being given, the young director barely hung on long enough to wrap production, and walked off entirely when it came time for editing. The fact that he ever decided to make another feature film again after that ordeal is something of a miracle.

Despite constant challenges to his control of the film, Fincher’s hand is readily apparent in every frame of ALIEN 3. A science fiction film such as this is heavily reliant on special effects, a niche that David Fincher’s background at ILM makes him well suited for.

Computer-generated imagery was still in its infancy in 1992, so Fincher and company had to pull off ALIEN 3’s steam-punk vision of hell and the devil through a considered mix of miniatures, puppets, animatics and matte paintings. Some of the earliest CGI in film history is also seen here in the film, in the scene where the skull of the hot-lead-covered Xenomorph cracks under the sudden onset of cold water before exploding.

Fincher’s fascination with technology plays well into the ALIEN universe, where the complete absence of technology—and for that matter, weapons—is used as a compelling plot device to generate suspense and amplify the hopelessness of the characters’ scenario. In order to vanquish the monster, they ultimately have to resort to the oldest form of technology known to mankind: fire.

ALIEN 3 fared decently at the box office, mostly due to franchise recognition and the considerable fan base built up by the film’s two predecessors, but was mercilessly savaged by critics (as was to be expected).

Long considered the worst entry in the series until Jeanne-Pierre Jeunet gave David Fincher a run for his money with 1997’s ALIEN: EVOLUTION, ALIEN 3 has become something of a cult classic as Fincher’s profile has risen. Fans forgave the film of its transgressions because they knew Fincher’s vision had been hijacked and tampered with. They knew that somewhere out there, in the countless reels of film that were shot, David Fincher’s original vision was waiting to be given shape.

In 2003, Fox attempted to make amends by creating a new edit of the film, dubbed the Assembly Cut, for release in their Alien Quadrilogy DVD box set. Fincher refused to participate in the re-edit, understandably, so Fox had to go off his notes in restoring the auteur’s original vision.

The 2003 Assembly Cut differs markedly from the 1992 original, restoring entire character arcs and adding a good 50 minutes worth of footage back into the story. There’s several key changes in this new cut, like Ripley being discovered on the beach instead of her escape pod, the Xenomorph bursting out of an ox (and not a dog), and the removal of the newborn alien queen bursting out of Ripley’s chest as she falls to her death.

The end result is a much better version of the film, giving us greater insight to the characters and their actions. While it doesn’t quite make up for the studio’s stunning lack of respect for Fincher during the making of the film, it ultimately proved that their concerns that the untested young director didn’t know what he was doing were completely unfounded, and were the film’s ultimate undoing.

The experience of making ALIEN 3 would be enough for any director to quit filmmaking forever, but thankfully this wasn’t the end for David Fincher. He would go back to the music video and commercial sector to lick his wounds for a while, but his true feature breakout was just on the horizon.


COMMERICALS & MUSIC VIDEO (1992-1995)

The abject failure of ALIEN 3 was director David Fincher’s first high-profile disappointment. It nearly made him swear off filmmaking altogether and he publicly even threatened as much— but when the dust settled, Fincher was able to slip back into commercial and music video directing with ease. Working once again in his comfort sphere, David Fincher churned out some of his best promotional work between the years 1992 and 1995.

NIKE: “INSTANT KARMA” (1992)

1992 saw sports gear giant Nike commission Fincher for a trio of commercials. The most well-known of these is “INSTANT KARMA”, which mimics the energetic pace of music videos. David Fincher’s touch is immediately evident here, with his high-contrast look that incorporates key components of his style like silhouettes and a cold color scheme.


NIKE: “BARKLEY ON BROADWAY” (1992)

Nike’s “BARKELY ON BROADWAY” is shot in black and white, a curious choice for a high-profile spot like this. The central conceit of a theatrical stage show lends itself quite well to Fincher’s talent for imaginative production design and lighting. Like “INSTANT KARMA”, “BARKLEY ON BROADWAY” has taken on something of a cult status, especially because of Charles Barkley’s cheeky persona.


NIKE: “MAGAZINE WARS” (1992)

The third spot, “MAGAZINE WARS”, revolves around the conceit of sports magazine covers in a newsstand coming to life and causing a mess. The idea is heavily reliant on visual effects, which comes naturally to David Fincher. While it’s a brilliant idea, it’s one that’s most likely inspired by a similar scene in Gus Van Sant’s feature MY OWN PRIVATE IDAHO, which had come out only a year earlier.


NIKE: “BARKLEY OF SEVILLE” (1993)

In 1993, Fincher once again collaborated with NBA superstar Charles Barkley on another spot for Nike called “BARKLEY OF SEVILLE” that makes use of some potent old world imagery that David Fincher’s prime influence Stanley Kubrick used so excellently in 1975’s BARRY LYNDON (while also foreshadowing the eerie Illuminati imagery that Kubrick would depict inEYES WIDE SHUT six years later). The piece is textbook Fincher, featuring a dueling orange and blue color palette, theatrical lighting that highlights some excellent production design and casts artful silhouettes.


BUDWEISER: “GINGER OR MARIANNE” (1993)

Also in 1993, Fincher took on two spots for Budweiser beer. The first, “GINGER OR MARIANNE” features young adults playing pool and debating their preferences of old TV character crushes. The pool hall is lit in smoky, desaturated warm tones with high contrast, as per Fincher’s established aesthetic.


BUDWEISER: “CLASSIC ROCK” (1993)

The second Budweiser spot, “CLASSIC ROCK”, features a handful of middle-aged dudes golfing and arguing over their favorite acts. David Fincher utilizes the high contrast natural light on the scenic golf course, supplementing it with a subtle gliding camera as it follows the characters. The result is a pretty conventional, but no less well-crafted, piece of advertising.


CHANEL: “THE DIRECTOR” (1993)

Fincher’s spot for Chanel, called “THE DIRECTOR”, is an excellent example of his “grunge-glam” aesthetic. The piece makes evocative use of its cold, blue color palette and smoky, European urban setting, with the director’s high contrast lighting bouncing off the wet streets and old-world architecture. Fincher’s fondness for revealing the artifice of the shooting process is incorporated into the narrative, as his opening vignette is revealed to be the shoot for a large movie, with the titular director being shown mostly in abstract, silhouette form.

COCA-COLA: “BLADE ROLLER” (1993)

Fincher’s filmography owes a lot to the work of Ridley Scott and his brother, Tony Scott. Ridley’s influence in particular is deeply felt in the fundamental building blocks of David Fincher’s aesthetic, and Fincher’s “BLADE ROLLER” spot for Coca-Cola seems to be directly lifted from Ridley’s visionary sci-fi masterpiece BLADE RUNNER (1982).

We see a dystopian city of the future, characterized by neon lights and Asian architecture, bathed in perpetual smoke and soaked through to the bone. Fincher’s signature high contrast, cold look plays directly into the BLADE RUNNER style, which the young director builds upon by adding his own flourishes like artful silhouettes and a high-energy camera that screams through the cityscape.“BLADE ROLLER” is one of David Fincher’s most well-known commercials, and easily one of his best.


AT&T: “YOU WILL” CAMPAIGN (1993)

It’s not uncommon for advertisers to create entire campaigns with multiple spots centered around a singular idea. In 1993, AT&T wanted to communicate how their technologies were going to be at the forefront of the digital revolution, which would have long-term ramifications for how we live our lives and connect with others.

To convey this message, AT&T hired Fincher—a director well known for his fascination with technology—for their “YOU WILL” campaign. The campaign is a series of seven spots that actually predict many of the things that are commonplace today, albeit in a laughably clunky, primitive form that was the 90’s version of “hi-tech”.

The spots show us various vignettes of people connecting with others through AT&T’s theoretical future tech: GPS navigation, doctors looking at injuries over video-link, video phone calls, sending faxes over tablets, and more. Fincher’s high contrast, cold palette serves him well with this campaign, further enhancing the appeal of this promising technology that aims to transform our lives.

Looking back at these spots over twenty years, it’s easy to laugh at the clunky tech on display, but it’s remarkable how much of it they actually got right.


MADONNA: “BAD GIRL” (1993)

David Fincher’s output during this period of his career was heavily weighted with commercials, but he did make a few music videos, one of which was another collaboration with pop diva Madonna for her track “BAD GIRL”.

The video incorporates some Hollywood talent in the form of Christopher Walken who plays a silent, watchful guardian angel of sorts and supporting character stalwart Jim Rebhorn, who would later appear in Fincher’s THE GAME four years later.

The look of“BAD GIRL” is similar to Fincher’s previous collaborations with Madonna, featuring high contrast lighting, diffused highlights and a smoky, cold color palette. The video is very cinematic, no doubt owing to a large budget afforded by the combined clout of Madonna and David Fincher (as well as Walken’s goofy dancing, seen briefly towards the middle).


LEVI’S: “KEEP IT LOOSE” (1993)

The first of several spots that Fincher would take on for jeans-maker Levi’s, “KEEP IT LOOSE” features the director’s iconic blue color palette as a static background, with a variety of actors composited into the scene dancing wildly and expressing themselves in their hilariously baggy 90’s jeans.


LEVI’S: “REASON 259: RIVETS” (1994)

1994 saw several more Levi’s spots put on Fincher’s plate, with “REASON 259: RIVETS” being the standout. The piece features the cold, blue high contrast look David Fincher is known for, along with a premise centering around tech—in this instance, a machine that is able to punch a single jeans rivet into someone’s nose as a decorative stud. The spot as it exists online currently can’t be embedded, but you can watch it here.


THE ROLLING STONES: “LOVE IS STRONG” (1994)

Fincher’s video for The Rolling Stones’ “LOVE IS STRONG” is shot in high contrast black and white, featuring grungy bohemian types in a smoky, urban setting.

The video shows off Fincher’s natural talent for visual effects, as he composites his actors as giants against various NYC landmarks, using the dwarfed city below them as their own personal playground. It’s a pretty simple concept, but extremely well-executed and staged—a credit to Fincher’s meticulousness.


SE7EN (1995)

In the mid-90’s, a script by newcomer Andrew Kevin Walker called SE7EN (a stylization of “seven”) was making the rounds and generating excitement all over town. Readers and creative executives alike hailed its bold, original storyline and that ending.

That audacious, coup-de-grace ending that nobody saw coming. That ending that could possibly never be put into the finished film and thus had to be rewritten and castrated into oblivion for fear that its inclusion could break cinema itself. Indulgent hyperbole aside, it was the ending that cajoled a young David Fincher back into the director’s seat that he had so publicly sworn off after a catastrophic experience with his debut, ALIEN 3 (1992).

While David Fincher didn’t have enough clout on his own to drop mandates that the original ending would remain as written, his stars (Hollywood heavyweights) Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman did, and they used that clout to back up this untested auteur. As such, Fincher was in an enviable position to infuse this hauntingly original story—free from the baggage of franchise—with his unflinching style and uncompromising vision.

SE7EN takes place in an unnamed, crumbling metropolis of perpetual precipitation and endless blight—an oppressive environment where hope goes to die. Detective Somerset (Morgan Freeman), a longtime member of the city’s police force, is in his last week of retirement, with a young, headstrong detective named Mills (Brad Pitt) arriving in town to take his place.

On their first day together, they are called to a murder scene where an obese man has been forced to literally eat himself to death.

Initially assuming it to be another one of the city’s routine murders—business as usual—, a similar scene at a lawyer’s office the next day (where the victim was forced to carve up his own body and the word “greed” is painted on the floor in his blood) prompts a second look at the fat man’s murder scene (where Somerset finds “gluttony” written in grease behind the fridge).

This discovery prompts the detectives to realize that they are in the midst of a killing spree perpetrated by a psychopath who carries out his murders in accordance with the seven deadly sins and leaves behind grisly scenes that taunt and challenge his pursuers. With the days passing and the bodies piling up, Somerset and Mills must race against time to deduce the killer’s identity and stop him before his grand plan reaches its shocking and grisly conclusion.

Morgan Freeman is pitch perfect as the insightful, bookish Detective Somerset—a man haunted by the mistakes of his past and the city that threatens to consume him. His presence lends a great deal of gravitas and authority to the film, grounding the outlandish story developments in reason and logic and making them all the more scarier because of their realism.

Brad Pitt’s performance as the hotheaded, impatient Detective Mills is interesting in that the performance itself tends to be wooden at times but we as the audience are still pulled into his swirling emotional whirlpool.

Perhaps it’s only because Pitt has become such a sublimely subtle actor in the twenty years since that his forcefulness in SE7EN reads now as a younger man struggling with inherent talent but an unpolished craft. Mills’ impatience and stubbornness is well set-up throughout the film—when assigned a handful of heavy philosophical books by Somerset, he opts instead to read the Cliff Notes versions.

Because he takes shortcuts and is quick to action without necessarily thinking things through, he’s in a prime position to be manipulated by Spacey’s John Doe and play into his twisted, murderous scheme.

Speaking of John Doe, Kevin Spacey absolutely murders it as SE7EN’s creepy, calculating killer (puns!). Spacey imbues this psychopath with a degree of intelligence and brilliance that one doesn’t necessarily expect in their garden-variety serial killer.

For Doe, his life’s work IS his life—he has no job or relationships to speak of, only a single-minded focus to complete his grand plan and etch himself permanently into the criminal history books. As evidenced by Netflix’s HOUSE OF CARDS series, Spacey is at his best under Fincher’s direction, and their first collaboration together in SE7EN results in the actor’s most mesmerizing performance in a career stuffed with them.

While the potency of SE7EN’s story hinges on this trifecta of brilliant performers, Fincher doesn’t skimp in the supporting department either. He enlists Gwyneth Paltrow (who coincidentally was dating Pitt at the time) to play Pitt’s supportive, sweet wife, Tracy.

Paltrow has something of a bland reputation of an actress, but collaborating with auteurs like David Fincher, James Gray, or Paul Thomas Anderson bring out the very best in her and remind us why she’s an excellent actress.

Paltrow takes what could easily be the standard non-confrontational, supporting house wife stock character and infuses it with a creeping pathos and dread— grappling with moral conflict over bringing a child into the dark, overbearing world that Fincher has created on-screen.

In another nod to director Stanly Kubrick’s profound influence on Fincher, FULL METAL JACKET’s (1987) fire-and-brimstone drill sergeant R. Lee Ermey shows up here as Somerset’s weary precinct captain. Additionally, John C McGinley shows up against-type as a militaristically macho SWAT commander, as does Mark Boone Junior as a shady, scruffy informant to Somerset.

To accomplish his stark, pitch-black vision, Fincher enlists the eye of cinematographer Darius Khondji, who is able to translate David Fincher’s signature aesthetic (high contrast lighting, cold color palette, silhouettes and deep wells of shadow) onto the 35mm film image.

The film is presented in the 2.35:1 anamorphic aspect ratio, but in watching some of the film’s supplemental features (and with no other evidence to go on), I’m convinced that Fincher and Khondji didn’t actually shoot anamorphic.

It appears the 2.35:1 aspect ratio was achieved via a matte in post-production, which plays into Fincher’s reputation as a visual perfectionist who uses digital technology to exert control over the image down to the smallest detail. This control extends to the camera movement, which uses cranes and dollies for measured effect, echoing John Doe’s precise, predetermined nature.

In fact, the only time that Fincher goes handheld is during the foot-chase sequence in Doe’s apartment complex and the finale in the desert, both of which are the only moments in the film that the balance of control is tipped out of any one person’s favor, leaving only chaos to determine what happens next.

While SE7EN was filmed in downtown Los Angeles, David Fincher intended for it to stand in for an unnamed East Coast city, which he successfully achieved via a mix of careful location selection and production designer Arthur Max’s vision of oppressive decay.

A never-ending, torrential downpour of rain amplifies Fincher’s signature grunge aesthetic, although its presence was initially less about thematics and more about creating continuity with Pitt’s scenes (who had to film all of his part first before leaving to work on Terry Gilliam’s 12 MONKEYS).

Howard Shore crafts an ominous score that utilizes a particular brassy sound evocative of old-school noir cinema, but its’ in Fincher’s source cue selection that SE7EN’s music really stands out.

He uses a cover of Nine Inch Nails’ “Closer” for the opening credits, foreshadowing David Fincher’s later collaborations with NIN frontman Trent Reznor on the scores for THE SOCIAL NETWORK (2010) and THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO (2011).

Other standout cues include a Marvin Gaye track playing in the Mills apartment, and—in another nod to Kubrick—classical arrangements that waft through the cavernous library Somerset conducts his research in.

It’s also worth highlighting SE7EN as Fincher’s first collaboration with Ren Klyce, who would go on create the visceral, evocative soundscapes of Fincher’s subsequent films.

Overall, SE7EN is a supreme technical achievement on all fronts— a fact realized by the studio (New Line Cinema), who then mounted an aggressive awards campaign on the film’s behalf. Only Richard Francis-Bruce’s crisp editing was nominated at the Academy Awards, with neither David Fincher nor his stellar cast getting a nod.

Despite the cast turning in great, truly original performances, it’s apparent that Fincher’s emphasis on the visuals and the technical aspects of the production came at the expense of devoting as much energy and attention to the performances as he probably should have.

The result is a visually groundbreaking film with slightly wooden performances, despite the cast’s best efforts and a first-rate narrative.

An oft-mentioned aspect of SE7EN is its haunting opening credits sequence, designed by Kyle Cooper. The sequence acts as a preview of John Doe’s meticulous psychosis, with jittery text trying to literally crawl away from the disturbing images that we’re shown in quick, rapid succession.

Shot separately from the main shoot after the original scripted opening credits sequence was trashed, the piece both pulls us into this sick, twisted world and prepares us for what comes next. The sequence was shot by late, great cinematographer Harris Savides—who would go on to lens Fincher’s THE GAME (1997) and ZODIAC (2007)—and edited by Angus Wall, who has since become one of David Fincher’s key editors.

Fincher, more so than a great deal of his contemporaries, uses the opening credits of his features to set the mood and the tone of his story in a highly creative and stimulating style. His incorporation of the technique began in earnest with SE7EN, but the practice hails back to the work of Alfred Hitchchock, who pioneered the idea of opening credits as part of the storytelling and not just an arbitrary device to let the audience know who did what.

SE7EN is one of the earliest instances in Fincher’s feature filmography in which his aesthetic coalesces into something immediately identifiable—no small feat for a man at bat for only the second time. The film places a subtle, yet strong emphasis on architecture—specifically, an early twentieth-century kind of civic architecture seen in noir films and old New York buildings (a mix of classical and art deco).

There’s a distinct claustrophobic feeling to the city David Fincher is portraying, which is reinforced by his framing of several shots from a low angle looking up at the ceiling (implying that the walls are closing in around our characters).

Fincher’s fascination with technology is also reflected in a mix of cutting-edge forensic tools and outdated computer systems that are used by the protagonists to find their man. Lastly, a strong air of nihilism marks Fincher’s filmography, with the incorporation of its philosophy giving SE7EN its pitch-black resonance.

Several story elements, like the moral ambiguity of Detective Mills, the rapid decay of the city aided and abetted by uncaring bureaucrats, and the darkly attractive nature of John Doe’s crimes cause a severe existential crisis for our protagonists.

SE7EN was a huge hit upon its release, and put David Fincher on the map in a way that ALIEN 3 never did (or could have done)—precisely because it was an original property in which Fincher could assert himself, free from the excessive studio needling that plagued top-dollar franchises back then (and still today).

This freedom resulted in one of the most shocking thrillers in recent memory, jolting audiences from apathy and re-energizing a fear response that had been dulled by the onslaught of uninspired slasher films during the 80’s.

SE7EN, along with Fincher’s other zeitgeist-y film FIGHT CLUB (1999), is frequently cited as one of the best pictures of the 90’s, perfectly capturing the existential, grungy essence of the decade. Above all, SE7EN is a gift—for David Fincher, another chance to prove himself after the failure of ALIEN 3, and for us, a groundbreaking new voice in the cinematic conversation.

That, my friends, is what was in the box.


THE GAME (1997)

Director David Fincher had built up quite a career for himself in the commercial and music video realm through his association with Propaganda Films. After the breakout success of his feature SE7EN (1995), Fincher was able to leverage this newfound clout into a collaboration with Propaganda for his third feature, a suspenseful puzzle thriller in the vein of Alfred Hitchcock called THE GAME (1997).

THE GAME’s origins are interesting in and of itself, with Fincher actually being attached to direct the script by John Brancato and Michael Ferris as his return to features after his abysmal experience onALIEN 3 (1992). The sudden availability of SE7EN star Brad Pitt forced the production of that film to go first and delayed THE GAME by several years.

Ultimately, this proved to be a good thing, as SE7EN’s runaway success set THE GAME up for similar success with a built-in audience hungry for the visionary director’s next work.

Nicholas Van Orton (Michael Douglas) is a wealthy investment banker who lives by himself in a huge mansion outside of San Francisco. His solitary existence keeps him at an emotional distance to those around him, a result of some deep emotional scarring that stemmed from his father’s suicide during childhood.

On a particularly fateful birthday (having reached the age his father was when he killed himself), Nick’s brother Conrad (Sean Penn) shows up with an unusual present: the opportunity to participate in a live-action game, organized by an enigmatic entertainment company called Consumer Recreation Services.

Nick ventures over to the CRS offices to indulge his curiosity, but after a rigorous mental and physical evaluation, he’s ultimately deemed unfit to take part in the game.

So imagine his surprise when he arrives home that night to find a clown mannequin in his driveway (placed in the same position that his father was found after jumping off the mansion’s roof), and the nightly news anchor interrupts his television broadcast to address Nick personally and announce the beginning of his “Game”.

Trying to ascertain just what exactly is going on, Nick follows a series of perplexing and macabre clues, eventually encountering a waitress named Christine (Deborah Kara Unger) who may or may not be a part of this Game.

As his life is manipulated to increasingly dangerous degrees, Nick loses control of his orderly lifestyle and begins to question CRS’ true intentions for him—- is this really just a game, or is it an elaborate con designed to drain his considerable fortune and rub him out in the process?

With THE GAME, Fincher has constructed an intricate puzzle for the audience to solve, wisely placing the narrative firmly within Nick’s perspective so that we’re taken along for his wild ride. Because the story is so dependent on shocking twists and turns, subsequent re-watchings can’t replicate the exhilarating experience of seeing it for the first time.

However, Fincher does a great job of peppering clues throughout that are so subtle I didn’t even notice them until my fourth time around, such as Unger’s character being on the periphery of the first restaurant scene without so much as a close-up or wide shot of her face to announce her presence.

Likewise, Nick’s first visit to CRS contains a strange interaction wherein the receptionist appears to give an order to the Vice President of Engineering (played by recently-diseased character actor James Rebhorn)—- why would a receptionist be telling a VP what to do?

These are only two subtle clues in a story that’s absolutely stuffed with them, which makes for something new to find with each re-watching.

Douglas turns in a fine performance as a cold, lizard-like Scrooge archetype. Nicolas Van Orton plays like a subdued, less flamboyant version of WALL STREET’s Gordon Gekko, which works because the distant, calculating aristocrat archetype is one that Douglas can pull off better than anyone.

David Fincher’s casting of Douglas also adds reinforcement to the idea of Fincher as Stanley Kubrick’s heir apparent (Douglas’ father, Kirk Douglas, was also a famous film star who headlined Kubrick’s PATHS OF GLORY (1957) and SPARTACUS (1960).

As the cold, cynical waitress Christine, Deborah Kara Unger is a great foil to Douglas’ character, as well as an inspired female part that resists becoming a conventional “love interest” trope. Her ability to mask her feelings and intentions is crucial to the success of THE GAME, leaving Douglas and the audience constantly trying to figure out where her loyalties lay.

Sean Penn’s role as younger brother Conrad is smaller than his usual performances, but he is no less memorable as a disheveled, mischievous agent of chaos. The late character actor James Rebhorn may have never held the spotlight in his own right, but every one of his performances was never anything less than solid, as can be seen in his performance as the disorganized, CRS VP of Engineering Jim Feingold. Rebhorn’s talents get a chance to truly shine in THE GAME, becoming the human face of the ominous CRS entity and, by extension, the film’s de facto antagonist.

David Fincher also throws in some small cameos in the form of fellow Propaganda director Spike Jonze as a medic towards the conclusion and SE7EN’s Mark Boone Junior as a private investigator tailing Nick.

THE GAME is also Fincher’s first collaboration with the late, great cinematographer Harris Savides in the feature world (they had previously shot a number of commercials together). The anamorphic 35mm film frame is awash in steely blues and teals, accentuated by high contrast lighting that signifies David Fincher’s signature touch. Flashback sequences filmed on 8mm provide a dreamlike nostalgia that appropriately dances along the line of sentimentality and melancholy.

Savides is well-suited to translate Fincher’s vision to screen, ably creating a push-and-pull dichotomy between the sleek polish of Nick’s old money world and the slick CRS offices and the seedy grunge of the back alleyways and slums that Nick’s Game takes him to.

The film is essentially about Nick’s loss of control, which juxtaposes his confused flailing against deliberate, observational compositions and precise dolly movements as a way to echo CRS’ forceful herding of Nick along a predetermined path.

This visual precision is highly reminiscent of Kubrick’s work, and very well may be what it would have looked like if Kubrick had ever decided to make an Alfred Hitchchock thriller. Another nod to Kubrick can see in the video slideshow that Nick watches as part of his initial evaluation, which in and of itself highly resembles its infamous counterpart in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE (1971).

SE7EN’s Howard Shore returns to create the score for THE GAME, crafting an intriguing, brassy sound to reflect the propulsive mystery and peppered with a tinge of melancholy piano that hints at Nick’s inability to move past his father’s death.

David Fincher’s stellar ear for needle drops also results in the incorporation of the White Rabbits’ iconic “Somebody To Love” as a psychedelic taunting mechanism in the scene where Nick arrives at his mansion to find it’s been vandalized with black light graffiti.

All of these elements are tied together by Ren Klyce’s sound design into an evocative sonic landscape that draws us further into the puzzle.

Fincher’s music video work often explored the boundaries of the film frame, transgressing arbitrary lines to see what was being hidden from view. Most of the time, this meant that the artifice of the production process (crew, set facades, equipment, etc.) was made known to the viewer.

THE GAME is an appropriate avenue to explore this idea in feature form because the story concerns itself with what happens when Nick is essentially placed inside of his own movie. This plays out in the form of any close inspection of a given object or development by Nick reveals its inherent fakery and connection to filmmaking.

Christine’s apartment is revealed as a fake set via various set dressing techniques Nick stumbles upon. The hail of gunfire directed at Nick and Christine by masked gunmen is comprised of harmless blanks. Nick’s iconic plunge from the top of a San Francisco skyscraper is cushioned by a giant stunt airbag.

The game Nick has been thrust into is an elaborate, deliberate manipulation of actors and events designed to take him on a film-like character arc and transformation.

To this effect, architecture (another of David Fincher’s thematic fascinations) plays a huge role in the proceedings. Fincher’s locations and sets are always architecturally impressive, and THE GAME doesn’t disappoint in the classical style seen in Nick’s mansion and San Francisco’s financial district, as well as the sleek modernity of CRS’ futuristic offices.

David Fincher often frames his subjects from a low angle in order to show the ceilings—this accomplishes the dual effect of establishing the realism of the space as well as conveying a subtle sense of claustrophobia (a sensation very important to THE GAME’s tension).

Production designer Jeffrey Beecroft makes great use of lines as a way to direct your eye (especially in the CRS headquarters set). These lines subtly point Nick (and by extension, us) in the right direction to go despite the orchestrated chaos around him.

Fincher is able to find several instances within the story to indulge in other fascinations. THE GAME uses technology to striking ends in advancing the plot, like the television magically talking to Nick in his own home, or the hidden video camera lodged inside the clown mannequin’s eye.

A distinct punk aesthetic runs through Fincher’s filmography, with the most literal examples being found in FIGHT CLUB (1999) and THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO (2011), but even in a cold-Scrooge-turned-good tale such as THE GAME, David Fincher is able to incorporate elements of punk culture in a natural way (the aforementioned mansion break-in and black light graffiti vandalism sequence).

And finally, Fincher’s approach to the story is informed by a nihilistic sensibility, in that Nick is inherently a cynical, selfish person, along with the prominent theme of suicide and the ultimate revelation of the film’s events as orchestrated manipulations and inherently false.

THE GAME was a modest hit upon its release, bolstered by a compelling story and strong performances that were, in this author’s opinion, much better than those seen in SE7EN. By achieving a balance between engrossing performances and superb technical mastery, Fincher shows off huge growth as a director with THE GAME.

Ultimately, the film itself was somewhat lost in the sea of late 90’s releases, and for the longest time it languished on a bare-bones catalog DVD with a neglected transfer. Thankfully, THE GAME has undergone something of a cultural reappraisal with the release of The Criterion Collection’s outstanding Blu Ray transfer.

Now, THE GAME is often referenced among film circles in the same breath as his best work, and is fondly remembered as one of the best films of the 1990’s (alongside SE7EN and FIGHT CLUB). For David Fincher, THE GAME cemented his reputation as a great director with hard edge and reliable commercial appeal.


FIGHT CLUB (1999)

1999’s FIGHT CLUB was the first David Fincher film I ever saw, and it became a watershed moment for me in that it was absolutely unlike any movie I had ever seen. Granted, I was only in middle school at the time and hadn’t quite discovered the world of film at large beyond what was available in the multiplex.

FIGHT CLUB was one of the earliest experiences that turned me on to the idea of a director having a distinct style, a stamp he could punch onto the film that claimed it as his own. My own experience with FIGHT CLUB was easily dwarfed by the larger reaction to the film, which has since become something of an anthem for Generation X—a bottling up of the 90’s zeitgeist that fermented into a potent countercultural brew.

Coming off the modest success of 1997’s THE GAME, director David Fincher was in the process of looking for a follow-up project when he was sent “Fight Club”, a novel by the groundbreaking author (and Portland son) Chuck Palahniuk.

A self-avowed non-reader, David Fincher nonetheless blazed through the novel, and by the time he had put the book down he knew it was going to be his next project. There was just one problem—the book had been optioned and was in development at Twentieth Century Fox, his sworn enemies.

Their incessant meddling and subterfuge during the production of Fincher’s ALIEN 3(1992) made for a miserable shooting experience, ultimately ruined the film, and nearly caused Fincher to swear off feature filmmaking forever.

This time, however, he would be ready. He was now a director in high demand, having gained significant clout from the success of SE7EN (1995), and he used said clout to successfully pitch his vision of FIGHT CLUB to Laura Ziskin and the other executives at Fox.

The studio had learned the error of its ways and was eager to mend relations with the maverick director, so they allowed him a huge amount of leeway in realizing his vision. Armed with the luxury of not having to bend to the whims of nervous studio executives, David Fincher was able to fashion a pitch-black comedy about masculinity in crisis and the battle between modern commercialism and our primal, animalistic natures.

The novel takes place in Wilmington, Delaware (home to the headquarters of several major credit card companies), but Fincher sets his adaptation in an unnamed city, mostly because of legal clearance reasons (which would have been a nightmare considering how much FIGHT CLUB disparages major corporations and institutions).

Our protagonist is the unnamed Narrator (Edward Norton), an insomniac office drone obsessed with Swedish furniture and support groups for serious, terminal diseases he doesn’t have. He finds in these support groups an emotional release and a cure for his insomnia, achieving a stasis that props him up while pushing down the nagging feeling that he’s wasting his life away.

His world is up-ended by the arrival of the acidic Marla Singer (Helena Bonham Carter), a fellow support group freeloader that confounds his perceived progress at all turns.

Constant travel because of his job as a recall analyst for a major car manufacturer provides some relief, and it is on one particular flight home that he meets Tyler Durden (Brad Pitt), whose effortless cool is unlike anything the Narrator has found in his so-called “single-serving” flight companions. Upon returning home, he finds his apartment has blown up due to mysterious circumstances. With nowhere else to turn, the Narrator calls up Tyler on a whim, who offers him a place at his ramshackle squatter mansion on the industrial fringes of town.

As the two men bond, they discover a cathartic release from an unexpected source: fighting. They channel this release into the founding of an underground brawling organization called Fight Club, where similarly culturally disenfranchised men can get together and unleash their primal side in bareknuckle grappling matches.

Soon, the duo’s entire outlook on life and masculinity changes, with the Narrator in particular taking charge of his own destiny and liberating himself from his perceived shackles at work.

In Fight Club, they have tapped into something very primal within the male psyche—a psyche subdued in the wake of rampant commercialism, feminism, and political correctness, just itching to be unleashed.

Fight Club grows larger than Tyler or The Narrator had ever hoped or expected, with satellite chapters popping up in other cities and the purpose of the secretive club evolving to include acts of domestic terrorism and anarchy.

When The Narrator finds himself losing control of the monster that they’ve created, he comes into mortal conflict with Tyler, who has gone off the deep end in his attempts to fundamentally and radically change the world.

Norton brings a droll, dry sense of humor to his performance as the Narrator, a medicated and sedate man who must “wake up”. In what is one of his most memorable roles, Norton ably projects the perverse, profoundly morbid thoughts of his character with sardonic wit and a sickly physicality. This frail, scrawny physicality is all the more remarkable considering Norton had just come off the production of Tony Kaye’s AMERICAN HISTORY X (1998), where made him bulk up with a considerable amount of muscle.

In his second collaboration with David Fincher after their successful team-up in SE7EN, Brad Pitt also turns in a career highlight performance as Tyler Durden, a soap salesman and anarchist with a weaponized masculinity and radical, seductive worldview that he is fully committed to living out.

His character’s name and persona have entered our pop culture lexicon as the personification of the unleashed, masculine id and the grungy, counter-commercial mentalities that defined the 1990’s.

Helena Bonham Carter counters the overbearing masculinity of David Fincher’s vision while oddly complementing it as Marla Singer, the very definition of a hot mess. Marla is a cold, cynical woman dressed up in black, Goth affectations.

Her aggressive feminine presence is an appropriate counterbalance to Tyler Durden’s roaring machismo, as well as serves to highlight the film’s homoerotic undertones. Meat Loaf, a popular musician in his own right, plays Bob—a huge, blubbering mess with “bitch tits” and a cuddly demeanor, while Jared Leto bleaches his hair to the point of anonymity in his role as a prominent acolyte of Durden’s (and thorn in the side of The Narrator).

To achieve FIGHT CLUB’s oppressively grungy look, David Fincher enlists the eye of cinematographer Jeff Cronenweth, the son of legendary DP Jordan Cronenweth (who had previously worked with Fincher on ALIEN 3). The younger Cronenweth would go on to lens several of Fincher’s later works due to the strength of their first collaboration on FIGHT CLUB.

The film is shot on Super 35mm and presented in the 2.40:1 aspect ratio, but it wasn’t shot anamorphic—it was instead shot with spherical lenses in order to help convey the gritty tone Fincher intended. Indeed, FIGHT CLUB is easily David Fincher’s grungiest work to date—the image is coated in a thick layer of grime and sludge that’s representative of the toxic philosophies espoused by its antihero subjects.

The foundation of FIGHT CLUB’s distinct look is built with Fincher’s aesthetic signature: high contrast lighting (with lots of practical lights incorporated into the framing), and a cold, sickly green/teal color tint. David Fincher and Cronenweth further expanded on this by employing a combination of contrast-stretching, underexposing, and re-silvering during the printing process in order to achieve a dirty, decaying look.

The production of FIGHT CLUB also generated some of the earliest public reports of Fincher’s proclivity for shooting obscene numbers of takes—a technique also employed by David Fincher’s cinematic forebear, Stanley Kubrick.

Both men employed the technique as a way to exert control over their actors’ performances and wear them down to a place of naturalistic “non-acting”. While this earns the ire of many a performer, it also earn as much respect for a director willing to sit through the tedium of dozens upon dozens of takes in order to really mold a performance in the editing room.

In a career full of visually dynamic films, FIGHT CLUB is easily the most volatile and kinetic of them all. Fincher employs a number of visual tricks to help convey a sense of surrealist reality: speed-ramping, playing with the scale of objects (i.e, presenting the contents of a garbage can as if we were flying through the Grand Canyon), and Norton’s Narrator breaking the fourth wall to address the audience directly (a technique he’d later use to infamous effect in Netflix’s HOUSE OF CARDS series).

Production designer Alex McDowell supplements David Fincher’s grimy vision with imaginative, dungeon-like sets in which to house this unleashed sense of masculinity, all while countering the sterile, color-less environments of the Narrator’s office and apartment.

Interestingly enough, the Narrator’s apartment is based almost exactly off of Fincher’s first apartment in (soul-suckingly bland) Westwood, an apartment he claims that he had always wanted to blow up.

THE GAME’s James Haygood returns to sew all these elements together into a breathtaking edit with manic pacing and psychotic energy, creating something of an apex of the particular sort of music-video-style editing that emerged in 90’s feature films.

FIGHT CLUB might just be the farthest thing (commercially-speaking) from a conventional Hollywood film, so it stands to reason that a conventional Hollywood score would be ill-fitting at best, and disastrously incompatible at worst. This mean that Howard Shore, who had scored David Fincher’s previous two features, had to go.

Really, ANY conventional film composer had to go in favor of something entirely new. In his selection of electronic trip-hop duo The Dust Brothers, Fincher received a groundbreaking score, comprised almost entirely of drum loops and “found” sounds. I have almost every note from that score memorized—I used to listen to the soundtrack CD almost every day during high school as I did my homework.

And then, of course, there’s The Pixies’ “Where Is My Mind?”: a rock song that will live in infamy because of its inclusion inFIGHT CLUB’s face-melting finale. Sound and picture are now inextricably linked in our collective consciousness— I defy you to find someone whose perception of that particular song has not been forever colored by the image of skyscrapers imploding on themselves and toppling to the ground.

The music of FIGHT CLUB is further heightened by the contributions of David Fincher’s regular sound designer Ren Klyce, who was awarded with an Oscar nomination for his work on the film.

A main reason that Fincher responded so strongly to his initial reading of Palahniuk’s novel is that it possessed several themes that David Fincher was fascinated by and liked to explore in his films.

On a philosophical level, the story contains strong ties to nihilism with Tyler Durden’s enthusiastic rejection and destruction of institutions and value systems, and the subsequent de-humanization that stems from Fight Club’s evolved mission objective (which extrapolates nihilistic virtues to their extreme).

The novel’s overarching screed against commercialism also appealed to Fincher, who gleefully recognized the inherent irony in a director of commercials making a film about consumerism as the ultimate evil. David Fincher plays up this irony throughout the film by including lots of blatant product placement (there’s apparently a Starbucks cup present in every single scene).

This countercultural cry against commercialism and corporate appeasement is inherently punk, which is yet another aesthetic that Fincher has made potent use of throughout his career.

With FIGHT CLUB, David Fincher also finds ample opportunity to indulge in his own personal fascinations. His background at ILM and subsequent familiarity with visual effects results in an approach that relies heavily on cutting-edge FX.

This can be seen in the strangest sex sequence in cinematic history, which borrows the “bullet-time” photography technique from THE MATRIX (1999) to turn Pitt and Carter into enormous copulating monuments that blend and morph into one single mass of biology.

The idea of stitching numerous still photographs to convey movement (where the traditional use of a motion picture camera would have been impractical or impossible) also allows Fincher to rocket through time and space, such as in the scene where we scream from the top of a skyscraper down to find a van packed with explosives in the basement garage.

Architecture also plays in important role, with Durden’s decrepit (yet organic) house on Paper Street resembling the grand old Victorian houses in LA’s Angelino Heights juxtaposed against the faceless, monolithic city skyscrapers that are destroyed in the film’s climax.

Here, as in his earlier features, David Fincher tends to frame his subjects from a low angle looking up—this is done as a way to establish the realism of his sets and locations while imbuing the subjects themselves with an exaggerated sense of power and authority.

FIGHT CLUB also contains Fincher’s most well-known opening credits sequence: a dizzying roller-coaster ride through the Narrator’s brain.

Beginning with the firing of impulses in the fear center, the camera pulls back at breakneck speed, with our scale changing organically until we emerge from a pore on Norton’s sweat-slicked forehead and slide down the polished nickel of the gun barrel lodged in his mouth.  It’s an incredibly arresting way to start a film, and prepares us for the wild ride ahead.

Finally, FIGHT CLUB allows David Fincher to really play with the boundaries of his frame and reveal the inherent artifice of the film’s making. This conceit is best illustrated in two scenes. The first is the “cigarette burns” projection-room scene where the Narrator reveals Tyler’s fondness for splicing single frames of hardcore pornography into children’s films by explaining the projection process to the audience in layman’s terms.

This scene is present in the novel, but Fincher’s approach of it is further informed by his own experience working as a movie projectionist at the age of 16, where he had a co-worker who collected random snippets of a given film’s most lurid moments into a secret envelope.

The second scene in question is Tyler’s infamous “you are not your fucking khakis” monologue to camera, whereby his intensity causes the film he is recorded onto to literally wobble and expose the film strip’s sprocket holes. The effect is that of the film literally disintegrating before our eyes—the story has gone off the rails and now we’re helpless to do anything but just go along for the ride.

David Fincher’s terrible experience with the studio on ALIEN 3 directly contributed to FIGHT CLUB being as groundbreaking and shocking as it was. When studio executives (most notably Laura Ziskin) inevitably bristled at the sight of David Fincher’s bold, uncompromising vision in all its glory, their attempts to tone it down were blown up in their faces by a director who had already been burned by their tactics once before and was one step ahead of their game.

A great example of this is Ziskin asking David Fincher to change a controversial line (Marla Singer telling Tyler Durden that she wants to have his abortion), which David Fincher responded to by agreeing to change the line under the condition that it couldn’t be changed any further after that. Ziskin quickly agreed, because how could anything be worse than that?

Imagine her outrage, then, when Fincher came back with Marla’s line changed to “I haven’t been fucked like that since grade school” and she couldn’t do anything to change it back. Once David Fincher knew how to play his meddlesome executives to his benefit, he became truly unstoppable.

FIGHT CLUB made its world premiere at the Venice Film Festival, and its worldwide theatrical run was met with polarized reviews and box office disappointment. Quite simply, audiences were not ready for Fincher’s abrasive vision.

However, it was one of the first films to benefit from the DVD home video format, where it spread like wildfire amongst eager young cinephiles until it became a bona fide cult hit. It probably couldn’t have been any other way— FIGHT CLUB was made to re-watch over and over again, to pore over all the little details and easter eggs that David Fincher and company peppered throughout to clue us into the true nature of Tyler Durden’s existence.

FIGHT CLUB’s release also had real-world implications in the formation of actual underground fight clubs all across the country. In mining the dramatic potential of a fictional masculinity crisis, FIGHT CLUB tapped into a very real one that was fueled by a noxious brew of feminism, political correct-ness, the new millennium, metrosexuality and frat-boy culture (a subgroup that glorified the carnage and violence while ironically failing to recognize the film’s very palpable homoerotic undertones and thus assuming them into their own lifestyle).

Fifteen years removed from FIGHT CLUB’s release, the film stands as the apex of the cynical pop culture mentality of the 1990’s, as well as a defining thesis statement for a cutting-edge filmmaker with razor-sharp relevancy

If you want more inside info on the making of Fight Club, take a listen to the IFH Interview with FC screenwriter Jim Uhls.


PANIC ROOM (2000)

The expansive, sprawling nature of FIGHT CLUB’s story meant that director David Fincher spent a great deal of the film’s production in a van traveling to and from the film’s four hundred locations. Naturally, he wished to downscale his efforts with his next project and find a story that took place in a single location.

He found it in a screenplay by David Koepp called PANIC ROOM, inspired by true stories of small, impenetrable fortresses that New York City’s wealthy elite were building for themselves inside their homes. Because the story lent itself so well to an overtly Hitchockian style of execution and form, David Fincher approached PANIC ROOM (2002) as an exercise in pure genre, refusing to “elevate” the material with the infusion of potent allegory and subtextual thematics like he had done with FIGHT CLUB or SE7EN (1995).

The film is expertly constructed in a way that only Fincher could have envisioned, with top-notch filmmaking on par with any of his best work. However, PANIC ROOMwas somewhat lost in the noise of 2002’s other releases, and thus doesn’t enjoy the same cherished status of David Fincher’s higher-profile work (despite the argument that it should).

Meg Altman (Jodie Foster) is a recently divorced single mom, looking for a new home in Manhattan for her and her young daughter, Sarah (Kristen Stewart). They are shown a beautiful, expansive brownstone complete with cathedral ceilings, original crown molding, and a panic room—a hidden concrete room outfitted with survival and communications tech and designed as a refuge in the event of a home invasion.

Despite Meg’s misgivings that the property is simply too much house for the two of them, she buys it anyway. As Meg and Sarah sleep during their first night in the house, three burglars—Junior (Jared Leto), Burnham (Forest Whitaker), and Raoul (Dwight Yoakam) break inside.

Meg and Sarah are awakened by the commotion, and instinctually barricade themselves in the panic room. Any assurance of safety soon vanishes when Meg realizes that she never hooked up the panic room’s dedicated phone line, along with the revelation that what the burglars are after—millions of dollars in US bonds—is hidden in a floor safe underneath their feet.

What ensues is a suspenseful, contained thriller that would make Hitchcock green with envy as Meg and Sarah fend off this trio of unpredictable male intruders who will stop at nothing to get what they want.

Jodie Foster is compelling as lead heroine Meg Altman, a fiercely maternal woman whose initial mild-mannered-ness gives way to a resourceful, cunning bravery. Interestingly, Foster replaced original actress Nicole Kidman, who had to leave the production due to the aggravation of an earlier injury (she still has a voice cameo as Meg’s ex-husband’s new girlfriend).

Despite the short notice, Foster exhibited enormous dedication to the role by giving up her chair on the Cannes Film Festival Jury as well as working through the pregnancy of her second child. Kristen Stewart, who was only eleven at the time of filming, turns in a great performance as Sarah, Meg’s punk-y daughter with a cynical attitude and intelligence beyond her years.

Stewart provides a nice balance to Meg’s refined femininity with a rough, tomboyish and androgynous quality (something which Foster had herself at Stewart’s age). In making the character of Sarah a diabetic, Stewart is able to become an active participant in the suspense and engage us on a personal, visceral level.

The three burglars prove just as compelling as our female protagonists due to a complex combination of values and virtues that causes conflict between them. The most accessible of the three is Forest Whitaker as Burnam, a professional builder of panic rooms and a sensitive, honorable man who projects a warm, authoritative presence.

This complex physicality is essential to the success of the role, and Fincher’s choice of Whitaker, who he previously knew not as an actor but as a fellow director at Propaganda Films, is an inspired one. Burnham is compelled not by greed but by obligation to his family, meaning that while he’s misguided in his attempts to right his wrongs, he’s not beyond saving.

His antithesis is Raoul, a mysterious, volatile man who quickly asserts himself as the group’s dangerous wild card. Raoul is played by Dwight Yoakam, a country singer turned actor who injects a great deal of menace to the proceedings.

Jared Leto, who previously appeared in David Fincher’s FIGHT CLUB in a small role, benefits from the expanded screen presence that the character of Junior affords him. Junior is the self-designated leader of the operation, but he quickly finds control of the situation slipping from his grasp as the night unfolds.

Leto finds an inspired angle into what would otherwise be the stock hotheaded, impatient villain archetype by turning Junior into a trust-fund kid who’s ill-advised attempts at giving himself some edge (take those atrocious dreadlocks, for instance) only lead to the hardened criminals he’s trying to impress taking him less seriously.

PANIC ROOM, like all of Fincher’s pre-ZODIAC (2007) feature work, was filmed in the Super 35mm film format. While shot open-matte in the full-frame Academy aspect ratio, the finished film is presented on the widescreen 2.40:1 aspect ratio so that David Fincher had total freedom to compose the frame as he saw fit. He did it this way, as opposed to shooting in the anamorphic aspect ratio, because he apparently hates the limited lens choices and shallow depth of field that plagues the anamorphic process.

Fincher hired Darius Khondji, who had previously shot SE7EN, but Khondji left the production two weeks into the shoot due to creative differences with David Fincher’s meticulously planned and extensively pre-visualized approach (which stifled any on-set spontaneity). Cinematography duties were then passed on to Conrad W. Hall (not to be confused with his father, the legendary Conrad Hall who shot ROAD TO PERDITION (2002) and COOL HAND LUKE (1967)).

Hall Junior proves adept at replicating Fincher’s signature aesthetic via a high-contrast lighting scheme and a cold color palette whereby traditionally warm incandescent bulbs glow a pale yellow and the harsh fluorescents of the panic room take on a blue/teal cast. Fincher’s mise-en-scene is dotted with practical lights, creating an underexposed, moody image that is bolstered by a “no light” approach—meaning that David Fincher and Hall sought as much darkness as they could get away with, primarily using the extremely soft light afforded by kino-flo rigs.

A highlight of PANIC ROOM’s look is a constant, fluid, and precise camera that glides and floats through the house, as if unfettered by the limitations of human operation. This technique is achieved through the combination of the Technocrane and CGI that stitches multiple shots into one, seamless move.

The best example of this in the film is the virtuoso long take that occurs as the burglars break into the house. We first see them arrive, and swoop through the house as they try various entry points, all the while taking the time to show us Meg and Sarah asleep and unaware of the impending danger.

This shot would have been impossible to achieve before the rise of digital effects, a revolution that Fincher helped usher in due to his familiarity with the process from his days at ILM.

Because of his natural grasp on digital filmmaking tech, he is able to turn this incredibly complicated shot into a “thesis” money shot that condenses his entire visual approach to the film into a single moment while effortlessly establishing the geography of the house and orienting us for what’s to come.

As I mentioned before, the extensive location shoots and setups required by FIGHT CLUB resulted in Fincher desiring a singular, contained scenario for his next project. In developing PANIC ROOM, he realized he wanted to create the entire house as a studio set (a la Alfred Hitchcock’s REAR WINDOW (1954) so that he could exert complete control.

Toward that end, he hired SE7EN’s production designer, Arthur Max, to construct the full-featured house inside a large soundstage as one continuous structure whose walls could be flown out to accommodate a camera gliding through the set.

Max’s work here is nothing less than masterful, as nary a seam of the complicated construction exposes itself throughout the entire film. The same could be said of the fluid edit by Fincher’s regular editor James Haygood, working in collaboration with Angus Wall.

Wall had previously edited bits and pieces of David Fincher’s commercial work, as well as the opening credits to SE7EN, but PANIC ROOM is Wall’s first feature editing job for David Fincher, and his success here has to led to continued employment in Fincher’s later features.

After a brief hiatus taken during the production of FIGHT CLUB, composer Howard Shore returns to David Fincher’s fold with a brassy, old-school score that oozes intrigue and foreboding.

During this time, Shore was consumed with scoring duties for Peter Jackson’s THE LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy, so PANIC ROOM was an assignment taken on precisely because of its low musical demands.

As it turns out, Shore’s work in PANIC ROOM is generally regarded as some of his best and most brooding. The score is complemented by a superb sound mix by David Fincher’s regular sound designer, Ren Klyce.

When done right, genre is a potent conduit for complex ideas and allegory with real-world implications. PANIC ROOM is essentially about two women fending off three male home invaders, but it is also about much more: the surveillance state, income equality, the switching of the parent-child dynamic…. the list goes on.

A visionary director like David Fincher is able to take a seemingly generic home invasion thriller and turn it into an exploration of themes and ideas. For instance, PANIC ROOMaffords Fincher the opportunity to indulge in his love for architecture, letting him essentially design and build an entire house from scratch.

The type of architecture that the house employs is also telling, adopting the handsome wood and crown molding of traditional brownstone houses found on the East Coast.

Architecture also serves an important narrative purpose, with the story incorporating building guts like air vents and telephone lines as dramatic hinging points that obstruct our heroes’ progress and build suspense.

Again, David Fincher employs low angle compositions to reveal the set ceiling in a bid to communicate the location’s “real-ness” as well as instill a sense of claustrophobia.

Fincher’s fascination with tech is woven directly into the storyline, which allows him to explore the dramatic potential of a concrete room with a laser-activated door and surveillance cameras/monitors.

The twist, however, is that despite all this cutting-edge technology (circa 2002, provided), both the protagonists and the antagonists have to resort to lo-fi means to advance their cause. Another aesthetic conceit that David Fincher had been playing with during this period is the idea of micro-sized objects sized up to a macro scale.

In FIGHT CLUB, this could be seen with the shot of the camera pulling back out of a trashcan, its contents seemingly as large as planets.

Fincher echoes this conceit in PANIC ROOM via zooming in on crumbling concrete until it’s as big as a mountain, diving through the gas hose as the burglars pump propane gas into the panic room, and jumping inside the glass enclosure of a flashlight to see a close up of the bulb spark on and off.

David Fincher ties this visual idea in with another signature of his films—imaginative opening credits sequences.  With PANIC ROOM, he places his collaborators’ names against the steel and glass canyons of New York City, as if the letters themselves were as big as skyscrapers and had always been a part of their respective structures.

As interesting of an idea it is, I’m not sure the large scope that these credits imply fully gels with a movie that’s so self-contained and insular.  And finally, the punk/nihilistic flair that hangs over David Fincher’s filmography has a small presence in Kristen Stewart’s androgynous punk stylings, as well as the appearance of The Sex Pistols’ Sid Vicious on one of her t-shirts.

Fincher’s desire to exert total control of the shoot via meticulous set-building and extensive computer pre-visualization ended up working against him, making for a long, strenuous shoot bogged down by technical difficulties and slow advancement.

However, the effort was worth it—PANIC ROOM became a box office hit upon its release, receiving generally positive reviews.  As a lean, mean thriller, PANIC ROOM is incredibly exhilarating and well-made; perhaps even one of the best home invasion films ever made.

More importantly, PANIC ROOM would be the last feature that David Fincher ever shot on celluloid film (as of this writing).  The 2000’s would bring the swift rise of digital filmmaking, a technology that Fincher—as a noted perfectionist and control-freak—would swiftly embrace.

PANIC ROOM closes the book on the first phase of David Fincher’s feature career (marked by gritty, subversive fare shot on film), heralding the arrival of a new phase that would solidify Fincher’s legacy amongst our most prestigious filmmakers


COMMERICALS & MUSIC VIDEO (2002-2007)

After the release of director David Fincher’s fifth feature, PANIC ROOM (2002), he took a five-year hiatus from feature work. However, this doesn’t mean he was lounging poolside with margaritas for half a decade.

He was hard at work in other arenas: prepping a sprawling film adaptation of the infamous San Francisco Zodiac murders during the 70’s, as well as taking on select commercial and music video work. During this five-year period, David Fincher created some of his highest profile (and most controversial) short-form work.

Fincher’s 2002 spot for Adidas, called “MECHANICAL LEGS” is a great little bit of advertising done in the classic David Fincher visual style: high contrast lighting, steely color palette and a constantly-moving camera.

The entire piece is a digital creation, featuring a pair of disembodied robot legs exhibiting superhuman agility and speed as they test out a new pair of Adidas sneakers. Fincher’s flair for visual effects and dynamic compositions really makes the spot effective and, more importantly, memorable.


COCA-COLA: “THE ARQUETTES” (2003)

I remember this particular ad, Coca-Cola’s “THE ARQUETTES” when it came out, as it received a lot of airplay based on the popularity of the titular couple following Courtney’s successful run on FRIENDS as well as their combined appearances in Wes Craven’s SCREAM films.

Of course, I had no idea David Fincher was behind the spot when I first saw it, but having grown accustomed to his aesthetic, I can easily spot it now. It’s evident in the desaturated warm tones that favor slightly colder yellows instead of typical oranges, as well as the high contrast lighting. The spot’s tagline, “True Love”, is poetically tragic now after the couple’s divorce in 2011.


XELEBRI: “BEAUTY FOR SALE” (2004)

In 2004, Fincher was commissioned by Xelebri to realize a stunning concept in the spot for “BEAUTY FOR SALE”. The piece takes place in a futuristic world, filled with the imaginative production design and world-building Fincher is known for, and bolstered by the visually arresting conceit of normal people wearing supermodel bodies as costumes (achieved through clever CGI and other visual effects). A cold color palette and high contrast lighting wraps everything up into a neat little David Fincher package.


HEINEKEN: “BEER RUN” (2005)

Fincher’s spot for Heineken called “BEER RUN” is also a commercial that I remember quite well from its initial run, primarily due to the fact that it was a big, lavish Super Bowl ad. The piece stars Fincher’s regular feature collaborator Brad Pitt as himself, adventurously trekking out into the urban night for a case of Heineken while avoiding the hordes of paparazzi.

Visually, a green/yellow color cast is applied over the image which accentuates the high contrast lighting and evokes not only the color branding of Heineken itself, but David Fincher’s FIGHT CLUB (1999). Dynamic camera movement and the inclusion of The Rolling Stones’ “Gimme Shelter” over the soundtrack further point to Fincher’s confident vision.


NINE INCH NAILS: “ONLY” (2005)

Fincher’s only music video during this period was created for Nine Inch Nails’ single “ONLY”. Fincher had already been associated with NIN frontman Trent Reznor due to the inclusion of a remix of Reznor’s “Closer” in the opening credits toSE7EN (1995), but this is the first instance of the two men working together directly. This is notable because Reznor would go on to become a regular composer for David Fincher, beginning with 2010’s THE SOCIAL NETWORK and continuing to the present day.

Interestingly, the video is presented in the square 4:3 aspect ratio, but the look is classic Fincher: high contrast lighting, a steely/sterile grey color palette and a constantly-moving camera that gives the simple concept a dose of electric energy.

The concept serves Fincher’s fascination for tech, with a Mac laptop acting as the centerpiece to this 21st century orchestra. CGI is used to inspired effect in incorporating sound waves on the surface of coffee, as well as conveying Reznor’s face and performance via those needle-art slabs that were popular during the era.


MOTOROLA: “PEBL” (2006)

In 2006, David Fincher reteamed with his cinematographer on THE GAME (1997), the late Harris Savides, to shoot a commercial for Motorola called “PEBL”. The spot tracks the long, slow erosion of a rock until it becomes so smooth that is adopts the form factor of Motorola’s Pebl mobile phone.

Fincher uses CGI in the form of meteors, craters, and weather to portray eons of time in only sixty seconds. This spot was filmed with digital cameras, and is credited with giving Fincher and Savides to adopt the format for the production of their next feature collaboration, 2007’s ZODIAC.


ORVILLE REDENBACHERS: “REANIMATED” (2007)

A commercial recently started airing that digitally recreates the late Audrey Hepburn, and understandably caused a lot of furor. There’s a huge ethical debate about using CGI advancements to bring long-dead celebrities back to life, a debate that more or less began in 2007 when David Fincher and Orville Redenbachers had the audacity to bring Orville himself back from the dead to hawk some popcorn.

I understand advancing the technology so that it can be used for necessary purposes (i.e, finishing the performance of an actor who died during production like Paul Walker), but the final effect is never truly convincing. It’s mildly upsetting at best, and pants-shitting horrifying at worst.

Here, Fincher’s familiarity with effects works against him, with his excitement at bringing dear old Orville back from the dead perhaps blinding him to the resulting “uncanny valley” effect. “REANIMATED”is easily one of Fincher’s most controversial videos, and for good reason.


LEXUS: “POLLEN” (2007)

Another spot that’s heavily-reliant on CGI, Lexus’ “POLLEN” is set inside of a greenhouse that was created entirely in the digital realm. Here, David Fincher is able to exact total control over his image and dial in a high contrast, steely color palette that highlights the car’s streamlined design.

The main takeaway from this period of Fincher’s career is his experimentation with digital cameras and acquisition would result in his overall confidence in the format and its future. Once he shot the majority of ZODIAC on digital, his film days were basically over.

His early adoption transformed him into the poster boy for the cinematic potential of the nascent digital format on a large, blockbuster scale.


ZODIAC (2007)

I’ve written before in my essays on Paul Thomas Anderson and The Coen Brothers about how 2007 was a watershed year in modern cinema. That specific year saw the release of three films that are widely considered to be the best films of the decade, the apex of efforts by specialty studio shingles like Paramount Vantage and Warner Independent.

Mid-level divisions like these flourished during the Aughts, with studios putting up considerable financial backing into artistic efforts by bold voices in an attempt to capture the lucrative windfall that came with awards season prestige.

It was a great time to be a cinephile, but it was also ultimately an unsustainable bubble—a bubble that would violently pop the following year when these shingles shuttered their doors and studios turned their attention to blockbuster properties and mega-franchises (ugh) like the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

As an eager student in film school, 2007 was a very formative year for me personally. It was the year that Anderson’s THERE WILL Be BLOOD and The Coens’ NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN were released, but those films are not the focus of this article. This particular essay concerns the third film in the trifecta, David Fincher’s masterful ZODIAC.

When the film was released, I was already a David Fincher acolyte and had been awaiting his return to the big screen five years after PANIC ROOM. As I took in my first screening of ZODIAC on that warm, Boston spring afternoon, I became acutely aware that I was watching a contender for the best film of the decade.

ZODIAC’s journey to the screen was a long, arduous one—much like the real-life investigation itself. The breakthrough came when writer James Vanderbilt based his take off of Robert Graysmith’s book of the same name.

From Graysmith’s template, Vanderbilt fashioned a huge tome of a screenplay that was then sent to director David Fincher—helmer of the serial-killer-genre-defining SE7EN (1995)—basically out of respect.

Fully expecting Fincher to pass, Vanderbilt and the project’s producers were quite surprised to learn of the director’s interest and connection to the material— but Fincher himself wasn’t surprised in the least. He remembered his childhood in the Bay Area, where Zodiac’s unfolding reign of terror was the subject of adults’ hushed whispers and his own captivated imagination.

In an oblique way, ZODIAC is an autobiographical and sentimental film for David Fincher—a paean to an older, more idyllic San Francisco whose innocence was shattered by the Zodiac murders and ultimately lost to the negative economic byproducts of rampant gentrification.

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ZODIAC spans three decades of San Francisco history, beginning in 1969 and ending in 1991. The focusing prism of this portrait is the sense of paranoia and panic that enveloped the city during the reign of terror perpetrated by a mysterious serial killer known only as The Zodiac. Simply murdering people at random is a scary enough prospect to shake any city to its foundations, but Zodiac’s command of the media via chilling correspondence sent to newspaper editors and TV stations allowed him to disseminate his message and strike mortal fear into the heart of the entire state of California.

At the San Francisco Chronicle, crime reporter Paul Avery (Robert Downey Jr) takes up the Zodiac beat and finds an unlikely ally and partner in plucky cartoonist Robert Graysmith (Jake Gyllenhaal), whose familiarity with pictorial language and messages aids in the endeavor to decode the Zodiac’s cryptic hieroglyphics.

Meanwhile, Inspector Dave Toschi (Mark Ruffalo) is breathlessly canvassing the populace and questioning hundreds upon hundreds of suspects in an effort to crack the Zodiac case, only to find frustration and confusion at every turn.

As the months turn to years, Zodiac’s body count continues to rise—until one day, it stops entirely. Time passes, nobody hears from the Zodiac for several years and the city moves on (including the increasingly alcoholic Avery).

That is, with the exception of Graysmith and Toschi, whose nagging obsession continues to consume them whole. With each passing year, their prospects of solving the case drastically decreases, which only amplifies their urgency in bringing The Zodiac to justice before he slips away entirely.

What sets ZODIAC apart from other serial-killer thrillers of its ilk is its dogged attention to detail. Fincher and Vanderbilt built their story using only the facts—eyewitness testimony, authentic police documentation and forensics evidence.

For instance, the film doesn’t depict any murder sequence in which there weren’t any survivors to provide accurate details about what went down. Another differentiating aspect about the film is the passage of time as a major theme, conveyed not only via on-screen “x months/years later” subtitles but also with inspired vignettes like a changing cityscape and music radio montages over a black screen.

ZODIAC’s focus lies in the maddening contradiction of factual accounts that stymied real-life investigators and led to missed clues and dead-end leads. The true identity of The Zodiac was never solved, and the film goes to painstaking lengths to show us exactly why that was the outcome.

ZODIAC attempts to deconstruct the larger-than-life myth of its namesake, but it also can’t help exaggerating him in our own cultural consciousness as the serial killer who got away—a modern boogeyman like Jason or Freddy that transcends the constraints of time and could pop up again at any time to resume his bloody campaign.

ZODIAC centers itself around a triptych of leads in Gyllenhaal, Downey and Ruffalo. The author of the film’s source text, Robert Graysmith, is depicted by Gyllenhaal as a goody-two-shoes boy scout and single father who throws himself into a downward spiral of obsession.

His sweet-natured pluckiness is the antithesis of the hard-boiled, cynical detective archetype we’ve come to expect from these types of films. Downey, per usual, steals every scene he’s in as the flamboyant, acid-witted Paul Avery. Ruffalo more than holds his own as the detail-oriented police inspector in a bowtie, David Toschi (whose actions during the Zodiac case inspired the character of Dirty Harry).

These three unconventional leads ooze period authenticity and help to immerse the audience into the story for the entirety of its marathon three hour running time.

By this point, Fincher had built up such an esteemed reputation for himself that he could probably cast any actor he desired. With ZODIAC’s supporting cast, Fincher has assembled a, unexpected and truly eclectic mix of fine character actors. John Carroll Lynch plays Arthur Lee Allen, the prime suspect in Toschi and Graysmith’s investigation.

Lynch assumes an inherently creepy demeanor that, at the same time, is not overtly threatening. Lynch understands that he has a huge obligation in playing Allen responsibly, since the storyline effectively convicts him as the Zodiac killer posthumously (when it may very well be not true at all).

When the Zodiac killer is seen on-screen, you’ll notice that it’s not Lynch playing the role. David Fincher wisely uses a different actor for each on-screen Zodiac appearance as a way to further cloud the killer’s true identity and abstain from implicating Allen further than the storyline already does. Additionally, this echoes actual survivor testimonies, which were riddle with conflicting and mismatching appearance descriptions.

Indie queen Chloe Sevigny plays the nerdy, meek character of Melanie. As the years pass in the film, she becomes Graysmith’s second wife and grows increasingly alienated by his obsession. She possesses a quiet strength that’s never overbearing and never indulgent.

Brian Cox plays San Francisco television personality Melvin Belli as something of a dandy and honored member of the literati. His depiction of a well-known local celebrity oozes confidence and gravitas. Elias Koteas plays Sergeant Mulanax, an embattled Vallejo police chief, while Dermot Mulroney plays Toschi’s own chief, Captain Marty Lee.

PT Anderson company regular Phillip Baker Hall appears as Sherwood Morrill, an esteemed handwriting analyst whose expertise is thrown into question as he succumbs to an escalating alcohol problem. Comedian Adam Goldberg appears in a small role as Duffy Jennings, Avery’s sarcastic replacement at The Chronicle, and eagle-eyed Fincher fanatics will also spot the presence of Zach Grenier, who played Edward Norton’s boss in FIGHT CLUB (1999).

ZODIAC is a very important film within Fincher’s filmography in that it marks a drastic shift in his style, ushering in a second act of creative reinvigoration fueled by the rise of digital filmmaking cameras and tools that could match celluloid pixel for crystal.

Fincher’s early adoption became a tastemaker’s vote of confidence in a fledgling technology and substantially bolstered the rate of adoption by other filmmakers.

Having shot several of his previous commercials on digital with THE GAME’s cinematographer Harris Savides, David Fincher was confident enough that digital cameras could meet the rigorous demands of his vision for ZODIAC and subsequently enlisted Savides’ experience as insurance towards that end.

Shooting on the Thomson Viper Filmstream camera in 1080p and presenting in the 2.40:1 aspect ratio, Fincher is able to successfully replicate his signature aesthetic while substantially building on it with the new tools afforded to him by digital.

Because of digital’s extraordinary low-light sensitivity, Fincher and Savides confidently underexpose their image with high contrast, shadowy lighting—many times using just the available practical lights, which resulted in moody, cavernous interior sequences and bright, idyllic exteriors. Fincher also is able to create something of a mundane, workaday look that stays within his established color space of yellow warm tones and blue/teal cold casts.

The procedural, methodical nature of the story is echoed in the observational, objective camera movement and editing. David Fincher’s dolly and technocrane work is deliberate and precise, as is every cut by Angus Wall in his first solo editing gig for Fincher having co-edited several of his previous features.

Wall’s work was certainly cut out for him, judging by Fincher’s well-documented insistence on doing as many takes as required in order to get the performance he wanted (it’s not uncommon in a David Fincher film for the number of takes to reach into the 50’s or 60’s).

To my eyes, ZODIAC is quite simply one of the most realistic and authentic-looking period films I’ve ever seen, owing credit to Donald Graham Burt’s meticulous production design. Burt and Fincher aren’t after a stylized, exaggerated vintage look like PT Anderson’s BOOGIE NIGHTS (1997), but rather a lived-in, well-worn, and low-key aesthetic.

Absolutely nothing feels out of place or time. Fincher’s borderline-obsessive attention to historical detail extended as far as flying in trees via helicopter in one instance to make the Lake Berryessa locale look just as it did at the time.

Practical solutions like this were augmented by clever, well-hidden CGI and digital matte paintings that never call attention to themselves. Funnily enough for a film so predicated upon its historical authenticity, David Fincher also acknowledges a surprising amount of artistic license taken with the film’s story— compiling composites of characters and re-imagining real-life events in a bid for a streamlined, clean narrative.

In developing the film, Fincher initially didn’t want to use a traditional score, instead preferring to incorporate a rich tapestry of popular period songs, radio commercials, and other audio recordings.

Toward that end, he used several different styles of music to reflect the changing decades, such as jazz, R&B and psychedelic folk rock like Donavan’s “Hurdy Gurdy Man”, which takes on a pitch-black foreboding feel when it plays over the film’s brilliantly-staged opening murder sequence.

Once the film was well into its editing, Fincher’s regular sound designer Ren Klyce suggested that the film could really use some score during key moments.

David Fincher agreed, and reached out to David Shire—the composer of Alan J. Pakula’s ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN (1976), a film that served as ZODIAC’s tonal influence.

Shire’s score is spare, utilizing mainly piano chords to create a brooding suite of cues that echoes the oblique danger and consuming obsession that the story deals in.

The story of ZODIAC is perfectly suited to Fincher’s particular thematic fascinations. Architecture plays a big role, with Fincher depicting San Francisco as a city in transition. He shows cranes on the skyline, holes in the ground waiting to be filled, and most famously, an impressionistic timelapse of the TransAmerica tower’s construction.

This approach extends to his interiors, specifically the Chronicle offices, which slowly transform over the years from a beige bullpen of clacking typewriters and cathedral ceilings to a brighter workspace with low-slung tile ceilings and fluorescent light fixtures (as seen in the well-composed low angle shots that pepper the film).

Nihilism— another key recurring theme throughout David Fincher’s work— pervades the storyline and the actions of its characters. Because they’re unable to solve the mystery and tie things up with a neat Hollywood ending, they either fall into an existential crisis about all their wasted efforts, or they simply lose interest and move on.

Fincher’s exploration of film’s inherent artifice is present here in very meta stylings: film canisters and their contents become promising leads and clues, and the characters get to watch movies about themselves on the screen (Fincher makes a big show of Toschi attending the Dirty Harry premiere). ZODIAC’s unique tone and subtext is perfectly indicative of David Fincher’s sensibilities as an artist, and frankly, it’s impossible to imagine this story as made by someone else.

ZODIAC bowed at the Cannes Film Festival to great views, its praise echoed by a cabal of prominent critics stateside. They hailed it as a masterpiece and Fincher’s first truly mature work as a filmmaker—the implication being that the maverick director was ready to join the Oscar pantheon of Great Filmmakers.

The critics’ high praise hasn’t eroded since either; it consistently ranks as one of the best films of the decade, if certainly not the most underrated. I wish the same could be said of the box office take of its original theatrical run, which was so poor that it only made back its budget when worldwide grosses were accounted for.

Thankfully, the release of Fincher’s director’s cut on home video managed to bring the film a great deal of respect and attention. As a reflection of David Fincher’s strict adherence to facts and eyewitness testimony in making the case for Arthur Lee Allen as the Zodiac, the long-dormant case was actually re-opened by Bay Area authorities for further investigation. When the pieces are put all together, the evidence clearly points to ZODIAC as Fincher’s grandest achievement yet.


THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON (2008)

With some films, there’s an intense connection that you can’t fully explain. It resonates deep inside of you, in that cloud of unconsciousness. At the risk of sounding a little hippy-dippy, director David Fincher’s THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON (2008) is one such film for me. It feels like a life that I’ve already lived before, despite the fact that I’ve never been to the South and I was born too late in the twentieth century to remember most of it.

Yet, there’s something about the film’s eroded-paint interiors in particular that reminds me of a distinct time in my life, a time when I was re-discovering my hometown of Portland, Oregon with new eyes during summer breaks from college.

I only realized it after my most recent viewing, but the film also sublimely foreshadows major developments in my own life: The treasured tugboat upon which Benjamin Button spends a great deal of his early adult years is named The Chelsea (coincidentally the name of my fiancée), and the love of his life is an elegant dancer (again, the soon-to-be Mrs.).

I can’t make it through the film without tearing up a little bit (or a lot), especially during the last montage where David Fincher shows us the smiling faces from Button’s life as Button himself opines in voiceover about how relationships are life’s biggest treasure. The scene utterly slays me. Every. Single. Time.

THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON is based off the F. Scott Fitzgerald book of the same name, published in 1922. A film adaptation had been in development since the 1970’s, associated with a wide variety of big-time Hollywood names like Steven Spielberg, Robert Zemeckis, and Jack Nicholson.

Due to the storyline of a man aging in reverse, which would require 5 different actors playing Button at various stages of his life, the idea never picked up much steam. A leading role split up between five men wouldn’t appeal to any one movie star, and the studio couldn’t justify the required budget with unknowns. After a while, most executives considered it to simply be one of those great screenplays that never got made.

By the early 2000’s, executives began to realize that CGI technology had caught up with the demand for a single actor to portray Button throughout the ages. They brought FORREST GUMP scribe Eric Roth aboard to try his hand at a new draft, but the project really began generating momentum when Fincher, fresh off his success with 2002’s PANIC ROOM, became involved.

Working with Spielberg’s producers Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall (in addition to his own regular producer, Cean Chaffin), he developed the film simultaneously with his 2007 feature ZODIAC, which ended up going before cameras first. David Fincher’s creative steerage was instrumental in securing the participation of Brad Pitt, and with the decision to forsake the novel’s original Baltimore setting in favor of New Orleans and its generous post-Katrina tax incentives, the project was finally given the greenlight after decades of development.

Within Fincher’s filmography, THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON is just that—a curious case. It’s his most honored film, and certainly his most emotionally resonant and powerful. However, the film is not well-liked amongst the film community at large, let alone his devoted fanbase. It is commonly accused of maudlin sentiments, which at the time of its release were at odds with a cynical American mentality wrought by terrorism and an unpopular war abroad.

However, as the long march of time strips the film of the context of its release, its fundamental integrity increasingly reveals itself. Like its sister project ZODIAC, THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON makes a strong case for one of the best films of its decade.

THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON is bookended with a framing narrative that concerns an elderly woman named Daisy (Cate Blanchett) lying on her deathbed in a hospital while Hurricane Katrina approaches. She implores her daughter to read her a series of journal entries she’s saved in a box, all of them written by a mysterious man known only as Benjamin Button.

His story begins on the eve of World War 1’s end in New Orleans, where a baby is born with quite the defect: severely wrinkled skin and a frail condition that’s consistent with an old man at the end of his life.

The baby’s mother dies during labor, and the father, wealthy button manufacturer Thomas Button (Jason Flemyng), flees with the baby in horror, abandoning him on the back steps of a nursing home. The home’s caretaker, a fiercely maternal soul named Queenie (Taraji P. Henson) discovers the baby and takes him in as her own, giving him the name of Benjamin.

The child confounds all expectations as he continues growing up into an elderly-looking little boy, appearing better and healthier every day. Benjamin (Brad Pitt) fits right in with the residents of the creaky old nursing home, and they become something of an extended family around him. One day, Benjamin meets a precocious little girl named Daisy, who sense just how different he is, and they begin a lifelong friendship.

As the years give way to decades, Benjamin continues to age in reverse, becoming more youthful and virile as he sets out into the world on a grand adventure that places him against the backdrop of the 20th’s century historical moments.

He becomes a master sailor, battles Nazi submarines in open waters, and even experiences a secret love affair with an old married woman (Tilda Swinton) in Russia. When Benjamin returns home from his adventures, he finds Daisy has grown into a beautiful young woman as well as a successful ballet dancer in New York.

Their attraction towards each other alternates erratically, never overlapping until Daisy’s career is cut short after getting hit by a taxi in Paris. Middle age sets in, and as Daisy becomes acutely aware of her mortality, she and Benjamin finally give in to each other and start a grand romance.

When Daisy announces she’s pregnant, Benjamin becomes withdrawn emotionally—he’s reluctant about becoming a father because as the child grows, he’ll only get younger still and, as he puts it, “(she) can’t raise the both of us”.

As Benjamin’s singularly unique life plays out, the film reveals itself to ultimately be about the heartbreak of age and time. It plays like a melancholic yearning for youth, while at the same praises the experience of life and living it to the fullest with the time you have.

Brad Pitt’s third collaboration with David Fincher is also his most sophisticated. As Benjamin Button, Pitt needs to be able to convey a complex life through all its various stages and differing attitudes. The main through-line of Pitt’s performance is that of a curious innocent, who soaks in everything around him with wide-eyed glee because he was never supposed to live long enough to see it anyway. The majority of Pitt’s performance is augmented by CGI, but his characterization is consistent and his physicality is believable across the spectrum of age. Simply put, Pitt’s performance is a career-best that takes advantage of his off-kilter leading man sensibilities.

Blanchett’s Daisy is an inspired counterpart as a complex character who is both tender and cold, idealistic and practical. Like Pitt, Blanchett must convey the full spectrum of womanhood with her performance, and does so entirely convincingly (with a little help from CGI “youth-inizing” techniques and conventional makeup prosthetics).

Tilda Swinton plays Liz Abbott, Benjamin’s mistress and lover during his short residency in a grand, old Russian hotel. Swinton, like Blanchett, is capable of playing a wide variety of age ranges, and here performs beautifully as an older, sophisticated and worldly woman who introduces Benjamin to the world of caviar and secret love affairs.

As Benjamin’s adopted mother Queenie, Taraji P. Henson is a revelation. She projects a strong, resilient dignity that allows her to essentially run the show at the old folks home Benjamin lives in. Mahershala Ali, better known for his role in Fincher’sHOUSE OF CARDS series, works for the first with the director here as Tizzy, Queenie’s lover and a distinguished, mild-mannered father figure to Benjamin.

Jason Flemyng plays Benjamin’s real father, Thomas Button, as a man besieged by melancholy over how his life has turned out. He’s a rich man, but all of the money in the world couldn’t have prevented his current situation, so he keeps Benjamin at an emotional distance until its time to pass his legacy and wealth on.

And last but not least, Elias Koteas— in his second consecutive performance for Fincher following ZODIAC—plays Monsieur Gateau, a blind clockmaker. Consumed by grief after losing his son to the Great War, Gateau constructs a clock that hangs in the New Orleans train station and runs backwards—thus paralleling Benjamin Button’s own life.

THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON furthers David Fincher’s foray into the digital realm. Working with a new visual collaborator in cinematographer Claudio Miranda, Fincher once again utilizes the Viper Filmstream camera to establish an all-digital workflow. Indeed, not a single frame of the film was ever printed to film before the striking of release prints.

Acquisition, editing and mastering was done entirely with bits and pixels— ones and zeroes. Presented in David Fincher’s preferred 2.40:1 widescreen aspect ratio, the film is easily the director’s warmest-looking picture to date. The frame is tinged with a slight layer of sepia, while the warm tones veer towards the yellow part of the color spectrum and a cold blue/teal cast defines the current-day Katrina sequences.

The incorporation of practical lights into the frame creates a high contrast lighting scheme while making for moody, intimate interiors that evoke the old world feel of New Orleans.
Fincher’s color palette deals mainly in earth tones, which makes the presence of red (see Daisy’s dress during their first romantic date) all the more striking when it finally appears.

Red in general seldom makes an appearance in David Fincher’s work (except for blood, of course), a phenomenon that can be chalked up to Fincher’s self-avowed aversion to the color as it appears on film due to its distracting nature. However, with Daisy’s dress in particular, the costume designers were able to convince Fincher that the distraction served a legitimate story purpose.
For a director well known for his dynamic sense of camera movement, THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON is a surprisingly sedate affair.

While certain key moments are punctuated with dolly or Technocrane movements, for the most part David Fincher is content to let the frame stay static and allow the performances to take center stage. This approach is bolstered by returning production designer Donald Graham Burt’s exceptional period reconstructions (themselves augmented with CGI and digital matte paintings).

Fincher’s regular editor Angus Wall stitches everything together in a deliberate, meaningful fashion that eschews flash in favor of truth and emotion. Kirk Baxter joins Wall, and would go on to become part of Fincher’s core editing team himself.

For the film’s music, David Fincher collaborates with Alexandre Desplat, who creates an elegiac, nostalgic score that sounds lush and romantic. Desplat’s work stands in stark contrast to the moody, foreboding scores that Howard Shore or David Shire created for Fincher’s earlier films.

Fincher supplements Desplat’s whimsical suite of cues with several historical needledrops that fill out the period: southern ragtime, R&B crooner hits like The Platters’ “My Prayer”, and even The Beatles’ “Twist And Shout”. Above all of these, the incorporation of Scott Joplin’s Bethena waltz stands out as the most powerful and cutting of cues (in my mind, at least). The song is as Old Time Dixie as it comes, but it’s a nostalgic little tune that resonates with me on a very strange level.

I can’t hear it without tearing up a little, and I can’t figure out why besides the obvious beauty of the song. The best way I can describe it as if it’s some remnant from a previous life that only my unconscious soul recognizes—which is an odd thing to say coming from a guy who doesn’t believe in reincarnation.

For a lot of people, THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON doesn’t feel like a David Fincher film, mainly because of its overall optimistic and sentimental tone that stands at stark odds with the rest of his emotionally cold, nihilistic filmography. However, the film is right in line with the trajectory of Fincher’s other thematic explorations.

While the passage of time is a key theme specific to the film’s story, it builds upon the foundation that Fincher established in ZODIAC (a story that also took place over the course of several decades). The old world New Orleans setting allows for lots of Victorian/classical architecture in the form of ornate southern mansions and municipal buildings that, as the years tick by, give way to a distinct midcentury modern feel (see the duplex where Benjamin and Daisy’s daughter is born).

And finally, despite being shot on digital, THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON plays with the artificial constructs of the film medium. Flashback sequences, like the blind clockmaker scenes and a man getting struck by lightning seven times are treated to look like old silent pictures from the Edison era—jittery frames, contrast fluctuations, and heavy scratches, etc.

These filters, applied in post-production, serve to differentiate the flashbacks from the sumptuously-shot main story, but they also clue in to a curious phenomenon that has risen out of the industry’s quick shift into digital filmmaking: the treating of digital footage to look like film, which is akin to a vegetarian trying to make a soy patty taste just like the chicken he refuses to eat in the first place.

To my memory, THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON is one of the earliest instances of applying filmic artifacts onto a digitally “pure” image, along with Robert Rodriguez’s PLANET TERROR in 2006.

It’s a commonly held tenet that age softens even the hardest of personalities. The production of THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON saw David Fincher enter middle age and come to grips with his own mortality after the death of his father. As such, the film stands as a testament of an artist looking back on life and softening his edge without sacrificing who he is.

The film’s release in 2008 was met with modest commercial success and polarized reviews, with some deriding it as aFORREST GUMP knockoff while an equally vocal contingent hailed it as a technical triumph and a masterpiece of storytelling.

Fincher had his first real brush with the Oscars after the film’s release, with his direction receiving a nomination in addition to a nomination for Best Picture amongst a slew of actual Oscar wins for its groundbreaking visual effects work in seamlessly mapping a CG face onto a live-action body performance.

The cherry on top of the film’s success was its induction into the hallowed Criterion Collection, which—while met with scorn by Criterion fanboys for its perceived maudlin mawkishness— earned Fincher his place in the pantheon of important auteurs. It is an admittedly easy film to dismiss for cynical reasons, but THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON holds many treasures for those who choose to embrace it.

Like its unique protagonist, the film will persist through the ages precisely because of its poignant insights into the meaning of our fragile, fleeting existence on this earth.


COMMERICALS & MUSIC VIDEO (2008-2010)

The release of 2008’s THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON found director David Fincher without a follow-up project immediately in the pipeline. His search for new material would eventually lead him to Aaron Sorkin and 2010’s masterful THE SOCIAL NETWORK, but due to the fact that the story wasn’t nearly as development-intensive as his previous film, Fincher was able to squeeze in a few commercials. His most notable work from this brief period consisted of multiple spots done for Nike and Apple, both giants in their respective fields.

NIKE: “SPEED CHAIN” (2008)

One of several spots that Fincher created for Nike in 2008, “SPEED CHAIN” is simply masterful in concept and execution. It depicts the evolution of speed, starting with a snake coming out of the water, morphing into a man, a leopard, a car, and finally a speeding bullet train. The piece is presented in David Fincher’s preferred 2.40:1 aspect ratio, as well as his signature cold color palette and dynamic camera movements that are augmented by CGI.


NIKE: “FATE: LEAVE NOTHING” (2008)

“FATE: LEAVE NOTHING” is yet another exceptional piece of advertising, set to a trip-hop remix of Ennio Morricone’s score for THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY (1966) as two young boys grow and develop essential football skills like agility and strength. It all culminates in a key confrontation between the two on the field as they collide with explosive force. Alongside the ever-present visual signatures, the piece is indicative of a major fascination of Fincher’s from this period in his career—the passage of time.


NIKE: “OLYMPICS FILMSTRIP” (2008)

Fincher’s third spot for Nike, “OLYMPICS FILMSTRIP” is heavy on the post-production, framing Olympians in film frames as the strips themselves run and twist through the frame. Shot by THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON’s cinematographer Claudio Miranda in David Fincher’s characteristic steely color palette, the piece also falls in nicely with Fincher’s continued exploration of the film frame’s boundaries and the mechanics of film itself as an artificial imaging medium.


STAND UP 2 CANCER: “PSA” (2008)

Stand Up 2 Cancer’s “PSA” spot features several vignettes in which celebrities (and scores of regular people too) stand up and face the camera—an admittedly literal concept. Several of Fincher’s previous feature collaborators make an appearance here: Tilda Swinton, Morgan Freeman, Elle Fanning, and Jodie Foster. Others, like Susan Sarandon, Keanu Reeves, Casey Affleck, and Tobey Maguire also pop up.


SOFTBANK: “INTERNET MACHINE” (2008)

David Fincher’s “INTERNET MACHINE” is a spot for a foreign cell phone company that, to my knowledge, never aired stateside. It’s a strange piece, and so dark that we almost can’t see what’s going on at all. Cast in a heavy, David Fincher-esque green color tint, Brad Pitt walks down the street and casually talking on his phone— all while CGI cars are blown away by apocalyptic winds behind him.


APPLE: “IPHONE 3G” (2009)

In 2009, Fincher did two spots for Apple’s iPhone line of products. The first, “IPHONE 3G” teases the secrecy that usually surrounds the release of a new iPhone by depicting the complicated security process of accessing the prototype stored within Apple’s laboratories.

The sleek, high contrast and steely look is characteristic of Fincher, but fits in quite sublimely with Apple’s own branding. The colorless set is full of various security tech and looks like something out of a Stanley Kubrick movie, which is fitting for a director whose work is profoundly influenced by him.


APPLE: “BREAK IN” (2009)

“BREAK IN” advertises the imminent release of the 3G’s successor, the iPhone 3GS. This spot echoes the look of “IPHONE 3G” with a similar steely color palette and Kubrick-style set piece, but this time around David Fincher has a little more fun with the storyline and technology on display.


LEXUS: “CUSTOM CAR” (2009)

“CUSTOM CAR”, done for Lexus, is simple in concept and execution, featuring Fincher’s steely, cold, urban aesthetic and fascination with mankind’s relationship to technology—seen here via the convenience of custom car settings that help identify ownership in the absence of visual differentiation.

The piece isn’t available to embed as far as I can tell.


NIKE: “TRAIL OF DESTRUCTION” (2009)

Fincher’s 2009 spot for Nike, “TRAIL OF DESTRUCTION” is incredibly artful in its high contrast, black and white approach. It might be one of the most expressionistic depictions of football I’ve ever seen.

David Fincher’s characteristic use of CGI as a storytelling tool (not just for visual flash) can be seen at the end, where the football player/protagonist retires to the locker room and exhibits a lizard-like skin pattern of scales.


NIKE: “GAMEBREAKERS” (2010)

“GAMEBREAKERS” is all computer-generated, and as such it hasn’t aged as well. It looks more like an old videogame, but perhaps that was the intent. Fincher once again works with cinematographer Claudio Miranda, who shot live-action face elements that were then mapped onto CG bodies. The idea is similar to the tech employed for THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON, but reversed and applied to a dynamic action sequence.


THE SOCIAL NETWORK (2010)

Facebook is easily the biggest, most transformative development of the early twenty-first century. It completely revolutionized how we communicate with each other, how we keep in touch with old friends and family, and even how we use the Internet on a fundamental level. It single-handedly ushered in the era of “Web 2.0” that experts spent most of the 90’s predicting and theorizing about.

The fact that Facebook was born in the dorm room of some Harvard kid meant we had entered a brave, new digital age. We were now in a world that benefitted the young and the savvy, the likes of who didn’t wait to “pay their dues” or obtain a blessing from the old guard before going about casually changing the world.

At the end of the day, however, Facebook is a tool. A product. A collection of ones and zeroes organized just so and projected onto our monitors. So, when it was announced that THE WEST WING creator Aaron Sorkin had written a screenplay based off “The Accidental Billionaires”, Ben Mezrich’s book on Facebook’s turbulent founding, the question on everyone’s minds (as well as the film’s own marketing materials) was: “how could they ever make a movie out of Facebook?”

As Mezrich’s book revealed (and Sorkin’s screenplay built upon), the inside story of Facebook’s genesis was fraught with a level of drama, intrigue, and betrayal normally reserved for Shakespeare.

Sorkin’s script, THE SOCIAL NETWORK, was a high-profile project from day one. It attracted the efforts of top producers like Scott Rudin, in addition to well-known personalities like Kevin Spacey, who signed on to executive produce the film. Directing duties were eventually handed to David Fincher—- the right decision, given that literally nobody else could’ve made this film as masterfully as he has done here.

When THE SOCIAL NETWORK debuted in October of 2010, it enjoyed very healthy box office receipts, mostly due to the name recognition of Facebook as well as a collective curiosity about its eccentric founder, Mark Zuckerberg. Others—like me—simply came to worship at the altar of David Fincher, subject matter be damned.

Because life is unfair, THE SOCIAL NETWORK came close to Oscar glory but was ultimately robbed by some movie about a cussing monarch or whatever that nobody will remember in ten years. There’s a strong case to be made that THE SOCIAL NETWORK is the best film in Fincher’s entire body of work, but that’s a hard case to argue considering the strength of the rest of his filmography.

One thing is for certain: we hadn’t even completed the first year of the Teens before David Fincher had given us a strong contender for the best film of the new decade. THE SOCIAL NETWORK uses Zuckerberg’s deposition hearings as framing devices, allowing for the bulk to story to occur as flashback while the “present-day” sequences orient us in time and space and help keep us on the same page as the characters.

We see Zuckerberg (Jesse Eisenberg) under fire from two fronts—Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss (Armie Hammer and Josh Pence) are suing him because they believe Facebook was an original idea of theirs that Zuckerberg stole, while Zuckerberg’s former best friend and Facebook CFO is suing him because he cheated him out of millions of dollars that were rightfully his. Fincher then transports us to Cambridge, Massachusetts during the mid-2000’s where Zuckerberg was an undergrad at Harvard.

When his girlfriend Erica Albright (Rooney Mara) dumps him for being a cold, cynical little twerp, Zuckerberg goes home and creates Facemash—a website that compares randomly-generated portraits of female students. The ensuing traffic crashes Harvard’s computer network and gains him a large degree of notoriety among the student body as well as disciplinary action from Harvard’s board.

Word of his antics reach the Winklevoss twins (henceforth known as the Winklevii), who hire him to realize their idea of a Harvard-exclusive social networking site called Harvard Connect while dangling the vague possibility of an invitation to their prestigious Final Club in front of him like a carrot.

But in bouncing their idea off of his friend Saverin, Zuckerberg realizes he has a much better one, disregarding his commission to build Facebook with Saverin instead. The popularity of Facebook explodes around the campus, turning Zuckerberg and Saverin into local celebrities. It’s not long until the site expands its user base to other Ivy League schools as well as Stanford, located right in the heart of Silicon Valley.

Understandably, the Winklevii finds themselves humiliated and infuriated by Zuckerberg’s deceit, and so begin building a nasty lawsuit against him.

Having left Boston for the warmer climes of Palo Alto for the summer, Zuckerberg and Saverin hustle to find more capital for their successful little business, eventually starting a partnership with Napster founder Sean Parker, who helps set them up with meetings with big-time investors as well as some primo office space.

As Facebook is launched into the stratosphere, Zuckerberg finds himself accumulating enemies faster than friends. Much is made in the film about the inherent irony of the creator behind the world’s most successful social networking endeavor losing all of his friends in the process.

This idea is most potent in the major conflict between Zuckerberg and a scorned, exiled Saverin who rages back with venomous litigation after he’s deceived out of hundreds of millions of dollars in potential earnings.

THE SOCIAL NETWORK would live or die on the strengths of its performances, a notion that the technically-minded Fincher recognized and applied to his strategy by putting an unusual amount of focus (for him) on the performances.

Beginning with a generous three weeks of rehearsal time prior to the shoot, and following through with consistently demanding obscene numbers of takes (the opening scene had 99 takes alone), David Fincher led his cast into delivering searing, career-best performances.

The lion’s share of the attention and the film’s only acting nomination at the Oscars went to Jesse Eisenberg’s pitch-perfect performance as Mark Zuckerberg, or rather, the fictional version of the real-life Facebook founder that Sorkin had created. Eisenberg portrays Zuckerberg as a cold genius with sarcastic, antisocial tendencies. He is regularly absent from the present—his mind is elsewhere, preoccupied by his duties back at the office.

At the same time, he can be calculating and ruthless when he needs to be. As Eduardo Saverin—the initial investor and embattled ex-CFO of Facebook—Andrew Garfield delivers a breakout performance. Decent, passionate, and perhaps a little squirrely, Saverin is Zuckerberg’s closest friend and confidant; a brother. But their relationship is a Cain and Abel story, and because of his blind trust that Zuckerberg will do the right thing and look out for him, he inevitably assumes the Abel position.

Pop icon Justin Timberlake— in a performance that legitimized his status as a capable actor— plays Sean Parker, the creator of Napster and Silicon Valley’s de facto “bad boy”. Timberlake easily channels a flashy, cocky, and flamboyant physicality that’s at once both undeniably attractive to Zuckerberg and duplicitously sleazy to Saverin.

Fincher’s casting of Timberlake is quite playful, and he doesn’t pull any punches when it comes to pointing out the irony of a pop star playing a man who single-handedly transformed (some might say ruined) his industry.
Fincher’s eclectic supporting players serve as rock-solid satellites that orbit around the film’s three titanic leads. David Fincher’s series of collaborations with the Mara clan begins here with the casting of Rooney Mara as Erica Albright, Zuckerberg’s ex girlfriend. She’s patient and honest, but in a no-bullshit kind of way that’s not afraid to tell people off and put them in their place.

Mara’s character is presented as a major driving force behind Zuckerberg’s actions, with their breakup becoming the inciting event that drives him to create Facemash in the first place. Mara turns in a spectacular low-profile performance that would lead to high-profile roles in other films, not the least of which was as the lead in Fincher’s next project, THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO (2011).

Rashida Jones, better known for her work on PARKS & REC, plays the admittedly thankless role of Marilyn Delpy, an insightful young lawyer in Zuckerberg’s deposition. Her knack for comedy is well documented in her larger body of work, but in THE SOCIAL NETWORK she shows off a fantastic serious side that is consistently realistic.

Armie Hammer’s dual performance as the Winklevoss twins was yet another of the film’s many breakouts. Hammer’s portrayal of the film’s primary set of antagonists required the dashing young actor to not only change his physicality between Tyler and Cameron by mere degrees, but also to undergo the arduous process of motion-capturing his face for its later digital compositing onto the body of actor Josh Pence.

Pence, it should be noted, is the great hero of the piece, as he valiantly forfeited his own performance in service to Fincher’s vision. And last but not least, Joseph Mazzello turns up in his highest-profile role since 1993’s JURASSIC PARK as the anxious, nerdy Dustin Moskovitz— Zuckerberg’s roommate at Harvard and one of Facebook’s founding fathers.

As I’ve grown older and more entrenched in Los Angeles’ film community, I’ve found that my connections to major studio films have become increasingly personal, and my degrees of separation from the prominent directors and actors I admire decreasing exponentially. THE SOCIAL NETWORK is a personal flashpoint then, in that a lot of my friends and acquaintances are a part of the film.

I suppose this is due to the story’s dependence on talent in their early twenties, as well as just being associated with the larger Los Angeles film community at the right time. For instance, my co-producer on my 2012 feature HERE BUILD YOUR HOMES, Josh Woolf, worked on the film as a production assistant and was there during the filming of the aerial title shot with Zuckerberg running across Harvard Square (a shot we’ll address in detail later).

Additionally, an actor friend of mine who I shot a short film with in January 2014, Toby Meuli, plays one of the more-prominent Harvard students during the Facemash sequence. A member of my group of friends from University of Oregon makes a brief appearance during a Final Club party sequence in which he chugs from a bottle of liquor and hands it off to Andew Garfield standing behind him.

I even went to a party in Los Feliz in 2010 that was thrown by the young woman with a pixie cut who was featured prominently during the opening frat party sequence. And finally, Mike Bash—a very close friend of mine—was cast in a great scene that followed the Bill Gates seminar. He was originally the guy who didn’t know that it was actually Bill Gates who was speaking. The scene was initially shot in Boston, but his role was cut when David Fincher eventually decided that he didn’t like how he directed the scene.

Rather than live with what he had, David Fincher reshot the scene in LA with new actors. Naturally, Bash was pretty despondent over his exclusion from the finished product, despite my assurances that he achieved a dream that eludes the grand majority of aspiring (and successful) actors: receiving direction from David Fucking Fincher.

David Fincher’s foray into digital filmmaking soldiers on in THE SOCIAL NETWORK, but this time he swaps out the Viper Filmstream camera with its maximum resolution of 1080 pixels for the glorious 4k visuals of the Red One camera.

His FIGHT CLUB cinematographer, Jeff Cronenweth, returns to shoot THE SOCIAL NETWORK in Fincher’s preferred 2.40:1 aspect ratio, ultimately bagging a Cinematography Oscar nomination for his trouble. Fincher and Cronenweth convey an overall cold tone without relying on the obvious blue side of the color spectrum. Warmer shots are dialed in to a yellow hue, with a prominent green cast coating several shots.

David Fincher’s visual signature is immediately apparent, once again utilizing high contrast lighting and practical lamps that make for dark, cavernous interiors. In shooting the film, Fincher and Cronenweth pursued a simple, unadorned look. Combined with the digital format’s increased sensitivity to light, most lighting setups were reportedly completed in twenty minutes or less.

The camerawork is sedate and observational, containing none of the flashiness of its kindred tonal spirit, FIGHT CLUB. When the camera does move, the name of the game is precision—meaning calculated dolly moves or the motion-controlled perfection of the Technocrane. There’s only one handheld shot in the entire film, when Timberlake’s Parker drunkenly approaches a bedroom door at a house party to find police on the other side.

THE SOCIAL NETWORK marks production designer Donald Graham Burt’s third consecutive collaboration with Fincher—and third consecutive period piece. Thankfully, reconstructing the mid-2000’s isn’t as arduous a process as recreating the 70’s or large swaths of the twentieth century.

The major challenge on Burt’s part was replicating a well-known campus like Harvard in an authentic manner when the school refused to let the production film on their grounds. Shots filmed at Johns Hopkins University, as well as various locations in Los Angeles are unified in time and space by David Fincher’s editing team of Angus Wall and Kirk Baxter.

The director’s adoption of digital techniques extends well into the post-production realm, with any promise of the technology’s ability to make editing easier going right out the window because of Fincher’s preferred shooting style.

Fincher had routinely used two cameras for each setup, effectively doubling his coverage, in addition to regularly demanding dozens upon dozens of takes until he was satisfied. At the end of it all, Wall and Baxter were left with over 268 hours of raw digital footage to sift through—a momentous task made all the more complicated by David Fincher’s tendency to mix and match elements from various takes right down to individual syllables of audio to achieve the cadence of performance he desired.

The new tools that digital filmmaking affords have certainly unleashed Fincher’s control-freak tendencies, but when that same obsession results in his strongest work to date and Oscar wins for his editing team, it can hardly be called a bad thing.

One of the most immediate and striking aspects of THE SOCIAL NETWORK is its unconventional musical score, written by Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor in his first scoring job after a series of casual collaborations with Fincher (SE7EN’s opening credits and the music video for Reznor’s “ONLY”).

Partnering with Atticus Ross, Reznor has managed to create an entirely electronic sound that not only evokes his own artistic aesthetic, but also complements the film’s tone perfectly. Reznor’s Oscar-winning suite of cues is quite spooky, incorporating a haunting droning sound that unifies all the disparate elements. It almost sounds like someone dancing upon a razor’s edge.

The now-iconic main theme uses melancholy piano plunks that recall nostalgia and childhood, slowly getting softer and lost to audio buzz and droning as Zuckerberg strays from innocence. Another standout is a rearrangement of the Edvard Grieg’s classical masterpiece “In The Hall Of The Mountain King” that appears during the Henley Regatta rowing sequence, which sounds as through it were filtered through the manic, electric prism of Wendy Carlos (Stanley Kubrick’s composer for THE SHINING (1980).

Fincher’s go-to sound guy Ren Klyce layers everything into a coherent audio mix that would net him his own Oscar nomination. Klyce and David Fincher’s approach to the sonic palette of THE SOCIAL NETWORK is quite interesting, in that they don’t shy away from mixing in loud music and ambience during crowded scenes like the opening tavern sequence or the midpoint nightclub sequence.

The dialogue is almost lost amongst the loud din of activity, becoming a counterintuitive strategy to invest the audience and signal to them that they’ll really have to listen over the next two hours. Despite being a primarily talky film, the experience of watching THE SOCIAL NETWORK is anything but passive.

THE SOCIAL NETWORK takes all of Fincher’s core thematic fascinations and bottles them up into a singular experience. The director’s opening credits are always inspired, and THE SOCIAL NETWORK is no different (despite being relatively low-key).

Echoing Zuckerberg the character’s composed, plodding nature, David Fincher shows us Eisenberg running robotically through the Harvard campus late at night, which not only establishes the setting well, but also introduces us to the lead character’s relentless forward focus. Treating the text to disappear like it might on a computer screen and laying Reznor’s haunting theme over the whole thing are additional little touches that complete the package.

The title shot in this sequence, where we see Zuckerbeg run through Harvard Square from an overhead, aerial vantage point, also shows off Fincher’s inspired use of digital technology in subtle ways. The shot was achieved by placing three Red One cameras next to each other on top of a building and looking down at the action below.

This setup later allowed Fincher to stitch all three shots into one super-wide panorama of the scene that he could then pan through virtually in order to follow Zuckerberg. It’s insane. It’s genius.

Mankind’s relationship to technology has always been a major staple of David Fincher’s films, a thematic fascination influenced by his forebear Stanley Kubrick. In THE SOCIAL NETWORK, Fincher’s career-exploration of this theme comes to a head as the story’s main engine. The saga of Mark Zuckerberg is inherently about computers, the Internet, our complicated interactions with it, and its effect on our physical-world relationships.

Whereas Kubrick painted technology as dehumanizing and something to be feared, Fincher sees it as something to embrace—- something that distinctly enhances humanity and differentiates one person from the other. In David Fincher’s work, the human element tends to coalesce around the nihilistic punk subculture.

Our protagonist is inherently nihilistic and narcissistic, willing to burn whatever bridge he needs to advance his own personal cause, despite his actions not being fueled by money or power. The story hits on Fincher’s punk fascinations with Zuckerberg’s rebelliousness and devil-may-care attitude, in addition to the overt imagery of antisocial computer hackers and the inclusion of The Ramones’ “California Uber Alles”.

Finally, Fincher’s emphasis on architecture helps to evoke a sense of time and place, mixing in the old-world Harvard brownstones with the sleek modernism of the Facebook offices and deposition rooms that echoes the film’s subtext of the old guard stubbornly giving way to a new order.

THE SOCIAL NETWORK is easily David Fincher’s best-received film. When it was released, it scored high marks both in performance and critical reviews, going on to earn several Oscar nominations and even taking home gold statues for some of the big categories like Editing (Wall & Baxter) and Adapted Screenplay (Sorkin).

Ultimately, Fincher himself lost out on its deserved Best Director and Best Picture awards to THE KING’S SPEECH, but anybody could tell you which of the two films will be remembered in the decades to come. THE SOCIAL NETWORK again finds Fincher operating at the top of his game —a position he’s held since SE7EN even though he only broke through into true prestige with 2007’s ZODIAC.

It may not be an entirely accurate reflection of its true-life subject, but THE SOCIAL NETWORK is a pitch-perfect reflection of what Zuckerberg left in his wake: a society that would never be the same, fundamentally changed by a radical new prism of communication.


THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO (2011)

The late 2000’s was a golden era for young adult fiction in both the novel and film mediums. Just look at the runaway success of the TWILIGHT series or THE HUNGER GAMES—books or films. Doesn’t matter, because they both are equally prominent within their respective mediums. Despite your personal stance on these properties (trust me, I want them gone and buried just as much as you), you can’t deny their impact on pop culture.

During this time, another book series and subsequent set movie adaptations captivated an admittedly older set—Stieg Larsson’s MILLENNIUM trilogy. Named after the muckracking news magazine that central character Mikael Blomvkist works for, the books (and movies) comprise three titles: “The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo”, “The Girl Who Played With Fire”, and “The Girl Who Kicked The Hornet’s Nest”. In 2009, the first of the Swedish film adaptations came out based on “Dragon Tattoo”, featuring newcomer Noomi Rapace in a star-making turn as the series’ cyper-punk heroine, Lisbeth Salander.

As the Swedish film trilogy proved successful both at home and abroad, it was inevitable that the major US studios would remake the property for American audiences. The task fell to Sony Pictures, who set up THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO with super-producer Scott Rudin overseeing a screenplay by esteemed writer Steve Zaillian.

Rudin’s natural choice for a director was David Fincher, who he had previously worked on the very successful THE SOCIAL NETWORK (2010) with. Fincher was drawn to the story of two mismatched misfits trying to solve a decades old murder, despite his misgivings that he had become the go-to guy for serial killer films after the success of SE7EN (1995) and ZODIAC (2007).

The tipping point came in Fincher’s realization that he would be at the helm of one of the rarest projects in mainstream studio filmmaking: a hard R-rated franchise. As expected, David Fincher delivered a top-notch film with Oscar-caliber performances and effortless style. For whatever reason, THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO didn’t connect with audiences, and its lackluster box office performance probably aborted any further plans for completing the trilogy.

THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO is structured differently than most other thrillers, in that it eschews the traditional three-act design in favor of five acts. This might be perhaps why the film floundered in the United States, where audiences have been subliminally conditioned to accept the ebb and flow of three acts as acceptable narrative form.

The film’s first half tells a two-pronged story, with one thread following Mikael Blomvkist (Daniel Craig)—a disgraced journalist who has recently lost a high-profile lawsuit against wealthy industrialist Hans-Erik Wennerstrom. After taking some time off from his co-editor gig at news magazine Millennium, he is approached by Henrick Vanger (Christopher Plummer), a rival of Wennestrom’s and a wealthy industrialist in his own right. Vanger brings Blomvkist to his sprawling estate in rural Hedestat under the auspices of authoring a book of his memoirs.

However, the true purpose of Blomvkist’s employment is much more compelling—to try and solve the decades-old case of Henrick’s granddaughter Harriet, who went missing in the 1960’s and is presumed killed.

Blomvkist takes up residence in a guest cottage on the property and dutifully begins poring over the family records and taking testimony from the various relatives, some of who have shady ties to the Nazi Party in their pasts.

Meanwhile in Stockholm, a young computer expert named Lisbeth Salander (Rooney Mara) grapples with the fallout of her foster father’s debilitating stroke. She’s forced to meet with state bureaucrats for evaluation of her mental faculties and state of preparedness for life on her own.

Her case worker—a portly, morally-bankrupt man named Yils Bjurman (Yorick van Wageningen)—forces her to perform fellatio on him in exchange for rent money, his abuse eventually culminating in Salander’s brutal rape.

However, he doesn’t expect Salander’s ruthlessness and resolve, made readily apparent when she returns the favor and rapes him right back.
Blomvkist requests the help of a research assistant, and in an ironic twist, is paired with Salander—- the very person who performed the background check on him prior to Vanger’s offer of employment.

They make for an unlikely, yet inspired pairing—both professionally as well as sexually. Together, they set about cracking the case, only to discover their suspect is much closer—and much deadlier—than they could’ve imagined.

James Bond himself headlines David Fincher’s pitch-black tale, but it’s a testament to Daniel Craig’s ability that we never are actually reminded of his secret agent exploits throughout the near-three-hour running time.

Craig has been able to avoid the sort of typecasting that doomed others like Mark Hamill or Pierce Brosnan before him, simply because he refuses to let his roles define him. As disgraced journalist Mikael Blomvkist, he projects a slightly disheveled appearance (despite still being an ace fucking dresser). It may not be the most memorable role of his career but he turns in a solid, faultless performance regardless.

The true spotlight goes to Rooney Mara’s cold, antisocial hacker punk, Lisbeth Salander. Mara underwent a radical transformation for the role, even so far as getting real piercings, tattoos, dye jobs, even having her eyebrows bleached.

Considering her previous collaboration with David Fincher was as the squeaky-clean girl-next-door Erica Albright in THE SOCIAL NETWORK, Mara’s appearance in THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO is gut-level arresting.

The depth of Mara’s talent is evident in her unflinching confrontation with the most brutal aspects of her character arc. By giving herself over to the role entirely, she’s able to take a character that was already so well-defined by Rapace in the Swedish versions and make it completely into her own. Her Best Actress nomination at the Oscars was very much deserved.

Christopher Plummer, Stellan Skarsgard, and Robin Wright round out Fincher’s compelling cast. Plummer is convincing as Henrick Vanger, depicting the retired industrialist as a good-natured yet haunted old man, as well as a bit of a dandy.

Skarsgard’s Martin Vanger is the current CEO of the family business, and his distinguished-gentleman persona cleverly hides his psychopathic, murderous inclinations. Wright plays Erika Berger, Blomvkist’s co-editor at Millennium and his on-again, off-again lover. Wright is by her nature an intelligent and savvy woman, as evidenced not just here but in her subsequent collaboration with Fincher in HOUSE OF CARDS as Kevin Spacey’s Lady MacBeth-ian spouse.
In keeping with David Fincher’s affinity for digital filmmaking technology, THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO takes advantage of the Red Epic digital cameras, the next generation of the type that THE SOCIAL NETWORK was shot on.

The film is presented in Fincher’s preferred 2.40:1 aspect ratio, but again it is not true anamorphic. Besides being a reflection of David Fincher’s general distaste for the limitations of anamorphic lenses, the shooting of the image in full-frame and the later addition of a widescreen matte in postproduction is a testament to Fincher’s need for control.

This method allows him to compose the frame exactly as he wants, and the Red Epic’s ability to capture 5000 lines of resolution allows him an even greater degree of precision in zooming in on certain details, blowing up the image, or re-composing the shot without any loss in picture quality.

This technology also affords better image stabilization without any of the warping artifacts that plague the process.

Cinematographer Jeff Cronenweth returns for his third collaboration with Fincher, having replaced original director of photography Fredrik Backar eight weeks into the shoot for reasons unknown.

Despite his initial position as a replacement DP, Cronenweth makes the picture his own, with his efforts rewarded by another Oscar nomination. David Fincher’s signature aesthetic is very appropriate for the wintery subject matter, his steely color palette of blues, greens and teals evoking the stark Swedish landscape— even warmer tones are dialed back to a cold yellow in Fincher’s hands.

The high contrast visuals are augmented by realistically placed practical lights that suggest cavernous interiors. Fincher’s sedate camera eschews flash in favor of locked-off, strong compositions and observant, calculated dolly work. When the camera moves, it really stands out in an affecting way.

Nowhere in the film is this more evident than in the shot where Craig’s Blomvkist is in the car approaching Vanger’s extravagant mansion for the first time. Presented from the forward-travelling POV of the car itself, the mansion grows larger in the center of frame— the symmetrical framing conceit suggesting ominous perfection.

The fact that the camera is stabilized makes for a smooth foreboding shot that takes any sort of human element out of the equation and replaces it with a fundamentally uneasy feeling. In the commentary for the film, David Fincher cites a favorite book from childhood, Bram Stoker’s “Dracula”—the sequence in which Harker approaches Dracula’s Castle serving as inspiration for his approach to this particular shot.

The connection is certainly not lost on this writer. Like several key shots in Fincher’s larger filmography, the Vanger Estate Approach (as I like to call it) would become a tastemaker shot that has not only been copied in his successive project HOUSE OF CARDS, but in subsequent pop culture works by other artists as well.

Production designer Donald Graham Burt returns for his fourth Fincher film, artfully creating an authentic sense of place in the Swedish locations while showing off his impeccable taste and eye for detail.

Editing team Angus Wall and Kirk Baxter are key collaborators within David Fincher’s filmography, and THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO would become their second consecutive Oscar win for editing under the director’s eye.

Their work for THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO really utilizes the advantages that digital filmmaking has to offer in realizing David Fincher’s vision and creating a tone that’s moody but yet unlike conventional missing-person thrillers.

Angus and Wall establish a patient, plodding pace that draws the audience deeper into the mystery before they’re even aware of it, echoing Blomvkist’s own growing obsession with the case.

Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor and his music partner Atticus Ross reprise their scoring duties, giving the musical palette of THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO an appropriately electronic and cold, wintery feeling.

Primarily achieved via a recurring motif of atonal bells and ambient soundscapes, the score is also supplemented by a throbbing, heartbeat-like percussion that echoes Salander’s simmering anger as well as the encroaching danger at hand.

One of Reznor’s masterstrokes is his reworking of Led Zeppelin’s “Immigrant Song” for the opening credits and trailer, featuring vocals by Yeah Yeah Yeahs frontwoman Karen O. Given a new coat of industrial electronic grunge, the rearrangement instantly conveys the tone and style of the film.

Fincher’s needledrops are few and far between in THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, but one sourced music track stands out because of the sheer audaciousness of its inclusion. In the scene where Skarsgard’s Martin Vanger tortures Blomvkist in anticipation of butchering his prey, he fires up the basement’s stereo system and plays, of all songs, Enya’s Orinoco Flow.

I remember the moment getting a huge laugh in the theatre, and rightfully so—the song is just so cheesy and stereotypically Nordic that it acts as a great counterpoint to the sheer darkness of the scene’s events.

The laughter instead becomes a nervous sort of chuckle, the kind we employ to hide a certain kind of fundamental unease and anxiety. Fincher’s go-to sound guy Ren Klyce was nominated for another Oscar with his standout mix, taking this noxious brew of sounds and turning it into a razor-sharp sonic landscape that complements David Fincher’s visuals perfectly.

On its face, THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO doesn’t seem like it would call for a substantial amount of computer-generated visual effects. Fincher’s background in VFX results in the incorporation of a surprisingly large quantity of effects shots.

Almost every exterior shot during the Vanger sequences has some degree of digital manipulation applied to it in the way of subtle matte paintings, scenery extensions and weather elements that blend together seamlessly in conveying Fincher’s moody vision and desire for total control over his visuals.

His affinity for imaginative opening title sequences continues here, in what is arguably his most imaginative effort to date. Set to the aforementioned “Immigrant Song” cover, the sequence plays like a dark nightmare version of those iconic James Bond title sequence, depicting key moments from the film in abstract, archetypical form as a thick black ooze splashes around violently. The choice to incorporate a black on black color scheme is undeniably stylish.

THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO sees David Fincher at the peak of his punk and technological aesthetic explorations. While not Fincher’s creation, the character of Lisbeth Salander fits in quite comfortably within his larger body of work—the culmination of a long flirtation with punk culture.

She is most certainly the product of the cyberpunk mentality, which values not only rebelliousness but technological proficiency as well. Unlike other depictions of this subculture in mass media, it’s easy to see that Fincher obviously respects it for what it is and aims to portray them in a realistic manner.

He builds upon the downplayed foundation he laid in THE SOCIAL NETWORK here by refusing to generate fake interfaces for Salander to use. He shows Salander actively Googling things, looking up people on Wikipedia, etc—he doesn’t shy away from showing corporate logos and interfaces as they appear in real life.

While a lot of people have a problem with blatant product placement, I can respect a director who doesn’t go out of his way to hide (or aggressively feature for that matter) brands and logos when depicting a realistic world. After all, we live in a world awash with corporate branding, so why pretend it doesn’t exist?

David Fincher’s body of work is defined by a distinctly nihilistic attitude towards story and character, even though I don’t believe he’s nihilistic himself. With THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO in particular, these sentiments are a prominent part of the storytelling.

These protagonists are morally flawed people who aren’t afraid of doing bad things to get ahead. They’re mostly atheists, and they don’t care whether you like them or not. The themes of abuse that run through the narrative also reflect this overarching mentality, playing out in the form of authority figures exerting their influence and selfish desires over the women that depend on them.

We see this reflected both on the bureaucratic level with Salander’s lecherous case worker, as well as on the familial level in Harriet Vanger’s repeated rape and abuse at the hands of her brother and father.

Architecture plays a subtle, yet evocative role in THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO. One of the core themes of the story is the clash between new Sweden (Salander’s weapons-grade sexual ambiguity and technical proficiency) and old Sweden (the Vanger family’s moneyed lifestyle and sprawling compound).

This clash is echoed in the architecture that Fincher chooses to present. The Vanger estate consists of classical Victorian stylings and rustic cottages; compare that to the harsh lines and modern trappings Martin Vanger’s minimalist cliffside residence (all clean lines and floor-to-ceiling glass), as well as the whole of Stockholm—very much the model of a modern European city. In showing us this duality of place and time, Fincher is able to draw a line that also points us directly to the narrative’s major emphasis on the duality of man.

Despite THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO’s impeccable pedigree and unimpeachable quality, it was a modest disappointment at the box office. It opened at a disadvantage, placing third on its debut weekend and never rising above it during the rest of its run.

There were, of course, the inevitable comparisons to the original series of film adaptations, with purists preferring them over David Fincher’s “remake”.

Having seen Fincher’s version before I ever touched the originals, I quickly found that I couldn’t get through the first few minutes of the Swedish opening installment—Fincher’s execution, to me, was so much more superior in every way that it made the originals look like cheap TV movies of the week.

Unfortunately, we will probably never get to see what David Fincher would have done with the remaining two entries in the series, as the poor box office performance of THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO most likely put the kibosh on further installments.

But, as I’ve come to discover again and again since I’ve started this essay series project, time has a way of revealing the true quality of a given work. THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO is only three years old as of this writing, but the groundswell of appreciation is already growing—hailing the film as the most underrated in Fincher’s filmography and an effort on par with his best work.


HALO 4 “SCANNED” TRAILER (2012)

In 2012, the long-awaited, highly anticipated HALO 4 was released for the Xbox 360. During the buildup to the release, the game-makers enlisted director David Fincher to craft an unconventionally long commercial/teaser trailer.

Titled“SCANNED”, the piece takes on the POV of Master Chief, showing us flashbacks from his life as he was selected for the Master Chief program, surgically enhanced, and let loose into the galaxy to protect Earth. The flashbacks are triumphant in nature, which only underscores the severity of the situation when we cut to the present and reveal Master Chief in captivity, facing off against what appears to be a greater threat than he’s ever encountered.

“SCANNED” is a combination of live-action and all-CG elements, evoking the slick commercial work of David Fincher’s earlier advertising career as well as reiterating his confident grasp on visual effects. The high contrast, cold/blue color palette is one of the piece’s few Fincher signatures, in addition to the focus on the futurist technology required to make Master Chief in the first place. At two minutes long, “SCANNED” is a supersized spot and must have been incredibly expensive. Considering that both the HALO video game series and Fincher have huge fan bases between them, it’s a bit surprising to see that their collaboration here wasn’t hyped more than it was.
There’s not a lot of growth to see on David Fincher’s part here, other than the observation that his long, successful commercial career has made him the go-to director for only the highest-profile spots and campaigns.


HOUSE OF CARDS “CHAPTER 1 & 2” (2013)

Director David Fincher has long been a tastemaker when it comes to commercial American media. His two pilot episodes for Netflix’s HOUSE OF CARDS, released in 2013, are simply the latest in a long string of works that have influenced how movies are made, how commercials are engineered, and how music videos have evolved.

Due to HOUSE OF CARDS’ runaway success, he has played a crucial part in making the all-episodes-at-once model the indisputable future of serialized entertainment and reinforcing the notion that we’re living in a new golden age of television.

HOUSE OF CARDS had originally been a successful television series in the United Kingdom, so of course it had to be re-adapted for American audiences, who presumably have no patience for British parliamentary politics.

On principle, I think this is a terrible practice that discourages us from learning about other cultures based off the assumption that we’re too lazy to read subtitles. But like Fincher’s THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO (2011) before it, once in a while the practice can create an inspired new spin on existing work that distinctly enhances its legacy within the collective consciousness.

HOUSE OF CARDS’ origins stretch back to 2008, when David Fincher’s agent approached the director with the idea while he was finishing up THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON. Fincher was interested in the idea, and enlisted hisBENJAMIN BUTTON writer Eric Roth to help him executive produce and develop the series.

After shopping it around to various cable networks around town, they found an unexpected home in streaming movie delivery service Netflix, who was in the first stages of building a block of original programming in order to compete with the likes of HBO and Showtime while bolstering their customer base. Along with LILYHAMMER and the revived ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT, HOUSE OF CARDS formed part of the first wave of this original programming, which took advantage of Netflix customers’ binge-watching habits by releasing all episodes at once instead of parsing them out over the space of several weeks.

It was (and still is) a groundbreaking way to consume television, and despite the naysayers, the strategy worked brilliantly. Funnily enough, the reunion between Fincher and SE7EN (1995) star Kevin Spacey didn’t occur out of their natural friendship, but because Netflix found in its performance statistics a substantial overlap between customers who had an affinity for David Fincher and Spacey, respectively.

As such, executives at Netflix were able to deduce and mathematically reinforce the conclusion that another collaboration between both men would generate their biggest audience. This also gave them the confidence to commit to two full seasons from the outset instead of adhering to traditional television’s tired-and-true practice of producing a pilot before ordering a full series.

Admittedly, the use of metrics and numbers instead of gut instinct might be a cynical way to approach programming, but in HOUSE OF CARDS’ case, the idea really paid off. Under Fincher’s expert guidance, Spacey has delivered the best performance of his career and HOUSE OF CARDS has emerged as one of the best serialized dramas around, rivaling the likes of such heavyweights as MAD MEN, THE WIRE, and BREAKING BAD.

Fincher directed the first two episodes in the series, which takes place during the inauguration of fictional President Garrett Walker. Walker wouldn’t even be taking the oath of office if it weren’t for the substantial canvassing done by House Majority Whip Frank Underwood (Kevin Spacey) in exchange for the coveted position of Secretary of State.

After taking office, however, Walker has a change of heart and reneges on his promise. Underwood shows grace and discipline in accepting the President Elect’s decision, but immediately begins scheming how to manipulate his way to the top. He’s simultaneously challenged and reinforced by his wife Claire (Robin Wright), the CEO of a prominent nonprofit and a strong-willed leader in her own right.

On the President’s first day in office, Underwood targets the new nominee for Secretary of State, Michael Kern, via an education reform bill— which is revealed to be radically left-leaning and unacceptable to the public’s interests.

Underwood leaks the bill to the press through Washington Herald reporter Zoe Barnes (Kate Mara), whose story on the matter lands on the Herald’s front page and prompts the education reform chairman to step aside and designate Frank himself to head up the authorship of a new bill.

It isn’t long until Underwood manages to unseat Kern by exploiting his handicaps via hardline questions from the press, subsequently installing a pawn of his own as the new candidate. Over the course of the first season, Underwood’s machinations and orchestrations will whisk him up into the upper echelons of power and within a heartbeat of the highest office in the land.

Kevin Spacey has always been a well-respected actor, but his performance as Frank Underwood reminds us of his unparalleled level of talent. Underwood is an unconventional narrator, straddling a line between an omniscient and personal point of view.

A southern gentleman from South Carolina first, a Democrat second, and currently the House Majority Whip (a temporary position, to be sure), Underwood is a ruthlessly calculating and manipulative politician—but at the same time he’s endlessly charismatic and armed with an endless supply of euphemisms and folksy proverbs.

Although Spacey and David Fincher haven’t worked together on this close a scale since 1995, it seems they’re able to slip right into the proceedings with a great degree of confidence and comfort.

Robin Wright, also on her second collaboration with Fincher after THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, plays Underwood’s wife, Claire. Every bit as strong and calculating as her husband, the character of Claire adds a distinctly Shakespearean air to the story by channeling the insidiously supportive archetype of Lady Macbeth.

The CEO of a successful nonprofit firm, Claire pulls her weight around the Underwood household and becomes Frank’s rock during difficult times. Wright does a great job of making Claire inherently likeable and relatable, despite her outwardly cold characterization.

With HOUSE OF CARDS, the Mara family has established something of a dynasty in their collaborations with Fincher. After Rooney’s career-making performances in THE SOCIAL NETWORK (2010) and THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, older sister Kate proves every bit her equal as Zoe Barnes, a wet-around-the-ears journalist for the Washington Herald. Plucky, street smart and ambitious, Barnes is able to use her intelligence as a tool of empowerment just as well as her sex.

Corey Stoll and Mahershala Ali, as Peter Russo and Remy Denton respectively, prove to be revelations that stick out amidst the clutter of David Fincher’s supporting cast. Stoll’s Russo is a politician from East Pennsylvania who has problems with alcohol and drug abuse. He’s severely disorganized and impulsive, despite his promising intelligence and ambition.

Ali’s Denton is almost the exact opposite—super focused, disciplined, and exceedingly principled. Denton is a high-powered lawyer who serves as a great foil to Underwood’s scheming. Ali’s performance also benefits due having worked with Fincher on THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON.

Like all of Fincher’s late-career work, HOUSE OF CARDS is shot entirely digitally, taking advantage of the Red Epic’s pure, clean image to convey the series’ sterile, almost-surgical tone. Instead of hiring a cinematographer he’s worked with before, David Fincher enlists the eye of Eigil Bryld, who ably replicates the director’s signature aesthetic.

The cold, steely color palette has been desaturated to a pallid monotone in its treatment of blues, teals, and greys. Warm tones, like practical lights that serve to create a soft, cavernous luminance in interior chambers, are dialed into the yellow side of the color spectrum.

The aesthetic deviates from Fincher’s style, however, in opting for a much shallower focus—even in wide shots. Curiously, the aspect ratio seems to be fluid from format to format. When streamed on Netflix, HOUSE OF CARDS is presented in 1.85:1, but watching it on Blu Ray, the image appears to be cropped to Fincher’s preferred 2.40:1 aspect ratio, making for an inherently more-cinematic experience.

HOUSE OF CARDS plays like an old-school potboiler/espionage thriller, featuring shadowy compositions and strategic placement of subjects in his frame that are reminiscent of classic cloak-and-dagger cinema.

The camera work is sedate, employing subtle dolly work when need be. The effect is a patient, plodding pace that echoes Underwood’s unrelenting focus and forward-driven ambition. Perhaps the most effective visual motif is the inspired breaking of the fourth wall, when Spacey pulls out of the scene at hand to monologue directly to camera (which makes the audience complicit in his nefarious plot).

Spacey delivers these sidebar moments with a deliciously dry wit, enriching what might otherwise be a stale story of everyday politics and injecting it with the weight of Shakespearean drama. The foundation of this technique can be seen in 1999’s FIGHT CLUB, where David Fincher had Edward Norton address the audience directly in a few select sequences. HOUSE OF CARDS fully commits to this idea, doing away with conventional voiceover entirely.

While it’s been used in endless parodies since the series’ release, the very fact that the technique is commonly joked about points to its fundamental power.

Another visual conceit that has been copied by other pop culture works like NONSTOP (2014) is the superimposition of text message conversations over the action, rather than cutting to an insert shot of the message displayed on the cell phone’s screen.

Considering that characters have been texting each other in movies for almost ten years now, I’m frankly surprised it took us this long for the on-screen subtitle conceit to enter into the common cinematic language. It’s an inspired way to dramatize pedestrian, everyday exchanges that act as the modern-day equivalent of coded messages in cloak-and-dagger stories.

Behind the camera, Fincher retains most of his regular department heads save for one new face. Donald Graham Burt returns as Production Designer, creating authentic replicas of the hallowed halls and chambers of Washington DC. Kirk Baxter, who normally edits Fincher’s features with Angus Wall, goes solo in HOUSE OF CARDS and weaves everything together in a minimalist, yet effective fashion.

The ever-dependable Ren Klyce returns as Sound Designer, giving an overly-talkie drama some much-needed sonic embellishment. The only new face in the mix is Jeff Beal, who composes the series’ music. Beal’s theme for HOUSE OF CARDS is instantly iconic, fueled by an electronic pulse that bolsters traditional orchestral strings and horns— echoing the romantic statues of fallen heroes that dot the DC landscape with a patriotic, mournful sound.

The series doesn’t rely on much in the way of needledrops, so David Fincher’s inclusion of two pre-recorded tracks is worth noting. The first episode features an inaugural ball where we hear Dmiti Shostakovich’s “Second Waltz”, which cinephiles should recognize as the main theme to Kubrick’s EYES WIDE SHUT (1999).

Additionally, the second episode features Lynyrd Skynyrd’s “Free Bird” when Russo goes to visit a conspiracy theorist in rural Massachusetts. While not exactly the most original choice of music, it’s appropriate enough.

For visionary directors like Fincher, television is tough because of the need to work within a strictly defined set of aesthetic boundaries. While this is changing and becoming a better stage for visually dynamic work every day, the basic rule of thumb is to direct the pilot in order to set the style in place and make the entire series conform around it.

In that regard, HOUSE OF CARDS as a series absolutely oozes Fincher’s influence, despite 24 of the (to-date) 26 episodes being helmed by different directors. This phenomenon can be ascribed to the fact that David Fincher’s episodes dovetail quite nicely with several themes and imagery he’s built his career on exploring.

Take the opening titles for instance—while they are usually part and parcel with the conventional television experience, Fincher makes them his own by showing time-lapse footage of Washington DC locales, suggesting the bustling scope of his stage while further exploring the passage of time as a thematic idea— also seen in earlier work like ZODIAC (2007) or THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON.

This theme is also reflected in Fincher’s depiction of DC’s iconic architecture. Like he did in THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, his compositions and location selections when taken as a whole suggest a clash between the old Washington and the new.

Old DC, marked by classical, colonial structures like The White House and The Lincoln Memorial, face off against the growing tide of steel and glass towers, or the modern infrastructural design of subway stations. A key takeaway of HOUSE OF CARDS is that Washington DC, a city defined by its romantic memorials to the past, is increasingly modernizing into a world city of the future.

This transition is aided by mankind’s increasing dependence on— and complicated relationship with—technology; another core idea that David Fincher has grappled with throughout his career. HOUSE OF CARDS’ focusing prism is communication: cell phones, text messages, the Internet, Apple computers, CNN, etc.

The series goes to great lengths to depict how information is disseminated in the digital age, with government and the media forming a complex, symbiotic relationship.

In asking the audience to root for, essentially, the bad guy, HOUSE OF CARDS echoes the strong undercurrent of nihilism that marks Fincher’s stories. Underwood is less of a protagonist than he is an antihero.

Objectively, he’s a bad person who’s scheming to outright steal the Presidency to rule the world as he sees fit. In real life, we’d react to this sort of notion with outrage—just ask anyone who’s ever irrationally obsessed over a particular birth certificate of a certain standing President. However, we can’t help but root for Underwood to succeed, simply because he’s just so damn attractive and charismatic (on top of actually being, you know, a fully-fleshed out, relatable person with moral shades of grey and not a stock villain archetype).

HOUSE OF CARDS’ groundbreaking release was met with quite the warm reception. It was nominated for several Emmys (a big deal for a series that hadn’t been broadcast first on television), and launched Netflix into HBO’s orbit in terms of compelling original content.

For Fincher as a director, HOUSE OF CARDS served as a great comeback after the disappointment of THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO. The series, whose third season is scheduled to premiere in February 2015, is a confident, near-flawless exploration of man’s lust for power and our complicated governmental structure—and wouldn’t be nearly as successful without David Fincher’s guiding hand. My one regret with HOUSE OF CARDS is that he didn’t direct more episodes.


COMMERICALS & MUSIC VIDEO (2013-2014)

Director David Fincher barely had any time to notice the modestly-disappointing performance of 2011’s THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, what with the continuing development of several projects he was attached to make. It would be 3 years before he was back in cinemas with another feature, but the years between 2011-2014 were by no means a fallow period.

His sheer love for directing and for being on set couldn’t keep him away for long— and so in 2013 he returned to the arena that first made his name, armed with a new commercial and a new music video.

JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE: “SUIT & TIE” (2013)

You couldn’t go anywhere in the Summer of 2013 without hearing Justin Timberlake’s “Suit & Tie” on the airwaves. As Timberlake’s own bid for Michael Jackson’s pop throne, the song’s broad appeal couldn’t be denied.

The inevitable music video for the song couldn’t be trusted with just any filmmaker—it was too high-profile to go to anyone but the biggest directors in town. Most likely due to their successful collaboration in 2010’s THE SOCIAL NETWORK, Timberlake chose Fincher as the director for “SUIT & TIE”—their union begetting one of the better music videos in many, many years.

Fincher’s visual aesthetic proves quite adept at its translation into the world of high fashion and style. He uses black and white digital cinematography and a 2.40:1 aspect ratio to echo the polished, sleek vibe of Timberlake’s song.

While a lot of his earlier music videos were shot in black and white to achieve a sense of grit, David Fincher’s use of it here echoes the crispness of a black tuxedo against a white shirt.

There’s a great interplay between light and dark throughout the piece, both in the broad strokes like the dramatic silhouettes he gets from his high contrast lighting setups, as well as smaller touches like Timberlake’s white socks that peek out from between black pants and shoes (another homage to Michael Jackson).

Despite being primarily a for-hire vehicle for Timberlake and a selling tool for his single, “SUIT & TIE” manages to incorporate a few of Fincher’s long-held thematic fascinations.

Fincher’s exploration of our relationship with technology sees a brief occurrence here as Timberlake and Jay-Z utilize state of the art recording equipment in the studio, as well as employing iPads as part of the songwriting process.

David Fincher features Apple products in his work so much more prominently than other filmmakers that I’m beginning to think he has a secret product placement deal with them. Architecture also plays a subtle role in the video, seen in Timberlake’s slick, modern bachelor pad as well as the Art Deco stylings and graceful arches of the stage he performs on.

One strange thing I noticed, though: the size of the stage itself doesn’t match the venue it’s housed in. For example, when the camera looks towards Timberlake, the stage extends pretty deep behind him like it was the Hollywood Bowl.

But when we cut to the reverse angle and see the audience, the venue is revealed to be disproportionally shallow and intimate. If you were to draw out the geography onto a blueprint, you’d realize it was a very unbalanced auditorium. Most likely, these two shots were shot in separate locations and stitched together with editing.

As his first music video in several years, “SUIT & TIE” finds Fincher working at the top of his game in familiar territory. It’s easily one of his best music videos and will no doubt serve as a taste-making piece and influencer for many pop videos to come.


CALVIN KLEIN: “DOWNTOWN” (2013)

Later the same year, Fincher collaborated with his THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO star Rooney Mara in a spot for Calvin Klein perfume called “DOWNTOWN”. Also shot in digital black and white, the spot finds David Fincher and Mara eschewing the punk-y grunge of their previous collaboration in favor of an edgy, glamorous look.

Mara herself is depicted as a modern day Audrey Hepburn—being adored by the press as she attends junkets and does photo shoots—but is also seen engaging in daily urban life and riding the subway (while listening to her iPod, natch). Fincher’s love of architecture is seen in several setups, the most notable being a shot prominently featuring Mara framed against NYC’s George Washington Bridge. The whole piece is scored to a track by Karen O, a kindred spirit of Mara’s and Fincher’s who provided the vocals for Trent Reznor’s re-arrangement of Led Zeppelin’s “Immigrant Song” for THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO. Overall,“DOWNTOWN” is a brilliantly executed and stylish spot that sells its product beautifully.


GAP: “DRESS NORMAL” CAMPAIGN (2014)

2014 marked director David Fincher’s return to cinema screens with his domestic thriller GONE GIRL, following a three year hiatus from feature filmmaking.  It also saw the infamous provocateur release a series of four commercial spots for the blandest clothing label in the business: Gap.

In a transparent bid to regain some cultural relevancy, Gap released a campaign entitled “DRESS NORMAL”, a move that could be construed as the struggling brand capitalizing on their sudden popularity amongst the emergent “normcore” crowd– arguably one of the more idiotic non-trends in recent memory.

To his credit, Fincher achieves Gap’s goals brilliantly, creating four effortlessly cool and stylish pieces (despite what some of the more-cynical voices in the blogosphere might say).  Titled “Golf”, “Stairs”, “Kiss”, and “Drive”, all are presented in stark shades of black and white, rendered crisply onto the digital frame.

Fincher eschews a sense of modernity for a jazzy mid-century vibe, with the old-fashioned production design and cinematography coming across as a particularly well-preserved lost film from the French New Wave.  Each spot pairs together a couple (or groups) of beautiful urbanites living out the prime of their youth in generic urban environs.

David Fincher’s hand is most evident in the sleek, modern camerawork that belies the campaign’s timeless appeal.  He employs a variety of ultra-smooth dolly and technocrane movements that effortlessly glide across his vignettes while hiding the true complexity of the moves themselves.

All in all, Fincher’s “DRESS NORMAL” spots are quite effective, injecting some much-needed style and sex appeal into Gap’s tired branding efforts.


GONE GIRL (2014)

Since the beginning of time, men and women have been at odds with each other.  One of the grand ironies of the universe is that testosterone and estrogen act against each other despite needing to work in harmony in order to perpetuate the species.

We scoff at the term “battle of the sexes”, like it’s some absurdly epic war over territory or ideology, but the fact of the matter is that, no matter how hard we try to bridge the gap, men and women just aren’t built to fully comprehend each other like they would a member of their own sex.

Yet despite these fundamental differences of opinion and perspective, we continue coupling up and procreating in the name of love, family, and civilization.  In this light, the institution of marriage can be seen as something of an armistice, or a treaty– an agreement by two combative parties to equally reciprocate affection, protection and support.

Naturally, when this treaty is violated in a high-profile way like, say, the murder or sudden disappearance of someone at the hands of his or her spouse, we can’t help but find ourselves captivated by the lurid headlines and ensuing media frenzy.  Names like OJ Simpson, Robert Blake, or Scott Peterson loom large in our collective psyche as boogeymen symbolizing the ultimate marital transgression.

The treacherous world of domesticity serves as the setting of director David Fincher’s tenth feature film, GONE GIRL(2014).  Adapted by author Gillian Flynn from her novel of the same name, the film marks David Fincher’s return to the big screen after a three year absence following the disappointing reception of 2011’s THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO.

In that time, he had refreshed his artistic energies with Netflix’s razor-sharp political thriller HOUSE OF CARDS (2013), with the serial’s warm reaction boosting his stock amongst the Hollywood elite.

Fincher’s oeuvre trades in nihilistic protagonists with black hearts and ruthless convictions, so naturally, the churning machinations and double crosses of Flynn’s book were an effortless match for his sensibilities.

Working with producers Joshua Donen, Arnon Milchan, Reese Witherspoon, as well as his own producing partner Cean Chaffin, Fincher manages to infuse a nasty undercurrent of his trademark gallows humor into GONE GIRL, making for a highly enjoyable domestic thriller that stands to be included amongst his very best work.

GONE GIRL begins like any other normal day for Nick Dunne (Ben Affleck).  But this day isn’t like any others– it’s the fifth anniversary of his wedding to wife Amy Dunne (Rosamund Pike), a privileged New York socialite and the real-life inspiration for “Amazing Amy”, the main character in a series of successful children’s books authored by her parents.

He leaves home to check in on the bar he runs in the nearby town of North Carthage, Missouri, expressing his dread of the occasion to his twin sister Margot, who mixes drinks there.  When he arrives back at the generic suburban McMansion he shares with Amy, he finds a grisly scene– overturned furniture, shattered glass, streaks of blood… and no Amy.

The police launch an investigation into Amy’s whereabouts, with her status as minor literary celebrity causing a disproportionate stir in the media.  He’s taunted at every turn by deceitful talk show hosts and news anchors, as well as clues from Amy herself, left behind in the form of letters that are part of gift-finding game that’s become their anniversary tradition.

In her absence, the clues have taken on a more much foreboding aura– channeling similar vibes and imagery from David Fincher’s 1997 classic mystery THE GAME.  The media’s increased scrutiny on Nick’s life and the history of his relationship with Amy drags his flaws as a husband out into the light, where they’re subsequently used against him to raise the possibility that he just might be responsible for her disappearance.  But did he kill his wife?  Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t… but the truth will be more surprising than anyone could’ve expected.

Ben Affleck headlines the film as Nick Dunne, skewering his real-life image as a handsome leading man by bringing to the fore a natural douchebag quality we’ve always suspected he possessed.  Dunne covers up his supreme narcissism and anger issues with a thin layer of charm, finding the perfect balance between a sympathetic protagonist who is way in over his head and a slick operator who thinks he’s got his game on lock.

Affleck proves inspired casting on Fincher’s part, and it’s nice to be reminded that besides being a great director in his own right, he’s still a great performer.  As Amy Dunne, Rosamund Pike conjures up one of the most terrifying villainesses in screen history.

An icy, calculating sociopath, Amy will do anything and everything necessary to carry out the perfect plot against her husband– even if the physical harm she deals out is on herself.  Pike’s skincrawling performance resulted in the film’s only Academy Award nomination, but it’s a well-deserved one that will be remembered for quite some time.

If the pairing of Affleck and Pike as GONE GIRL’s leads seems a bit odd or off-center, then Fincher’s supporting cast boast an even-more eclectic collection of characters.  Neil Patrick Harris– Doogie Howser himself– plays Amy’s college sweetheart Desi Collins.

A rich pretty boy and pseudo-stalker with bottomless reserves of inherited funds, he’s so intent on dazzling Amy with his high-tech toys and spacious homes that he’s completely oblivious to her machinations against him.  Primarily known for his comedic roles in TV and film, NPH makes a successful bid for more serious roles with a performance that’s every bit as twisted as the two leads.

Beating him in the stunt casting department, however, is maligned director Tyler Perry, whose films are often derided by critics as patronizing and shamelessly pandering despite their immense popularity amongst the African American population.  The news of his involvement in GONE GIRL with met with gasps of disbelief and confusion by the blogosphere, but here’s the thing– Tyler Perry is great in this movie.

He effortlessly falls into the role of Tanner bolt, a high-powered celebrity lawyer from New York, soothing Nick with his seasoned expertise and wearing expensive designer suits so comfortably they might as well be sweatpants.  He’s extremely convincing as a whip-smart, cunning attorney, never once hinting at the fact this is the same man who became rich and famous for wearing a fat suit under a mumu.

Emily Ratajkowski and Patrick Fugit are great as Nick’s jiggly co-ed mistress Andie and the no-nonsense Officer Gilpin, respectively, but GONE GIRL’s real revelation is character actress Kim Dickens.

Calling to mind a modern, more serious version of Frances McDormand’s folksy homicide investigator in FARGO (1996), Dickens’ Detective Boney is highly observant and sly– almost to a fault.  The joy in watching Dickens’ performance is seeing her internal struggle against the growing realization that none of her prior experience or expertise could ever prepare her for Amy’s level of scheming.

GONE GIRL retains David Fincher’s signature look, thanks to the return of his regular cinematographer Jeff Cronenweth.  As a team, they’ve built their careers out of using new filmmaking technologies to fit their needs, and GONE GIRL isn’t one to break the tradition.

One of the earliest features to shoot on Red Cinema’s new Dragon sensor, GONE GIRL was captured full-frame at 6k resolution and then thrown into a 2.35:1-matted 4k timeline in post-production.

This allowed Fincher and his editing partner Kirk Baxter to re-compose their frames as they saw fit with razor-precision and minimal quality degradation.  This circumstance also afforded the ability to employ better camera stabilization in a bid to perfect that impossibly-smooth sense of movement that Fincher prefers.

As one of the medium’s most vocal proponents of digital technology, David Fincher inherently understands the advantages of the format– an understanding that empowers him with the ability to make truly uncompromised work.

Appropriate to its subject matter, GONE GIRL is a very dark film.  Fincher and Cronenweth use dark wells of shadow to convey a foreboding mood, while Fincher’s signature cold color palette renders Nick’s trials in bleak hues of blue, yellow, green, and grey.

Red, a color that David Fincher claims to find too distracting on film, rarely appears in GONE GIRL, save for when he specifically wants your attention on a small detail of the frame– like, say, a small blood splatter on the hood over the kitchen stove.

Despite the consistent gloom, the film does occasionally find short moments of warm, golden sunlight and deeply-saturated color.  Fincher’s slow, creeping camerawork leers with omniscience, placing its characters at an emotional arm’s distance.

Knowing Fincher’s background as a commercial director, it’s not surprising to see GONE GIRL throw around nonchalant product placement for flyover-country conglomerations like Walmart, KFC and Dunkin Donuts.

Looking back over his other features, it’s clear that David Fincher has never been one to shy away from the presence of well-known brands in his frame– indeed, a large chunk of his bank account is there as a direct result of his interaction with brand names and logos.

Product placement is a controversial topic amongst filmmakers, with many seeing the intrusion of commerce as an almost-pornographic sacrilege towards art, but Fincher’s view seems to be that reality is simply saturated with corporate logos, branding, and advertisements, so why should a film striving for realism be any different?

In Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor and his musical partner Atticus Ross, Fincher has found a kindred dark soul, and their third collaboration together after 2010’s THE SOCIAL NETWORK and THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO doesn’t surprise in its aim to bring something entirely unexpected to the proceedings.

Working from David Fincher’s brief that the music reside in the space between calm and dread, Reznor and Ross’s electronic score for GONE GIRL is characterized by soothing ambient tones interrupted by a pulsing staccato that conveys the razor-sharp undercurrents of malice that Amy so effortlessly hides behind her statuesque facade.

Outside of John Williams and Steven Spielberg, it’s hard to think of a composer/director partnership where each artist’s aesthetic is so perfectly suited towards the other.  Reznor, Ross, and Fincher have cultivated a symbiotic relationship that, together with Fincher’s regular sound designer Ren Klyce and his consistently excellent and immersive soundscapes, elevates any project they undertake into a darkly sublime experience.

A nihilistic sentiment abounds in the style of GONE GIRL, falling quite effortlessly into David Fincher’s larger body of work.  The same attention to detail and insight into the banal side of law enforcement (paperwork, legal red-tape, etc.) that marked 2007’s ZODIAC is present in GONE GIRL’s almost-clinical depiction of the day-to-day process of investigating such a luridly mysterious crime.

Two of David Fincher’s most consistent fascinations as a director– architecture and technology– play substantial roles in the drama, but never at the expense of story and character.  The architecture that Fincher concerns himself with in GONE GIRL is the domestic structures in which we house our families, or to put it another way, the castles in which we shelter our charges.

However, as seen through the perspective of David Fincher’s particularly dark and ironic sense of humor, our suburban castles instead become prisons.  The neutral tones of upper-middle-class domesticity that pervade Amy and Nick’s McMansion are almost oppressive in their blandness, while the structural elements on which they’re painted bear no characteristics of the values of those who inhabit them.

Fincher reinforces this idea by shooting from low angles to expose the ceiling, suggesting that the walls are figuratively closing in on his characters.  Likewise, Desi Collins’ grandiose, rustic lakeside retreat is simply too spacious to ever feel constricting or claustrophobic, what with it’s cathedral-height vaulted ceilings and oversized windows letting in an abundance of sunlight.

However, Desi has rigged his well-appointed home with an overblown array of security cameras and other surveillance, effectively trapping Amy inside if she wishes to remain under the auspices of “missing, presumed dead”.  And speaking of technology, David Fincher places a substantial focus on Nick’s distractions with video games, cell phones, oversized televisions and robot dogs.

This “boys with toys” mentality is quite appropriate to Fincher’s vision, as it is crucial to the authenticity of Amy’s convictions that Nick has fallen prey to that all-too-common suburban phenomenon of men turning to the stimulation afforded by electronics and gadgets after growing tired of their wives.

The dangers of growing complacent in your marriage– whereby we distract ourselves with screens instead of with each other– is a key message in GONE GIRL, and Fincher’s career-long exploration of mankind’s relationship to technology makes him a particularly suitable messenger.

Thanks in part to GONE GIRL’s high profile as a bestselling book as well as David Fincher’s own profile as a highly skilled artist with a fervent cult following, the film was a strong success at the box office.  As of this writing, it actually holds the records for Fincher’s highest-grossing theatrical run in the United States.

Critical reviews were mostly positive, and while it received only one nomination for Pike’s performance at the 2015 Oscars, it’s generally regarded as one of the best films of the year.  The tone and subject matter of GONE GIRL may not feel particularly new for Fincher (a notion that may have played into the film’s lack of Oscar nominations), but this well-trodden ground provides a solid platform for David Fincher to perfect what he already does best: delivering taut, stylish thrillers with razor-sharp edges.

Now firmly into middle age (52 as of this writing), Fincher could be forgiven for what so many other artists his age do: slowing down, mellowing out, looking backwards, worrying about legacy, etc.  It’s pretty evident however that he has no intention of doing any of those things.  While his next feature has yet to be announced, he’s deep in development on several projects running the gamut from theatrical to television.

Fincher’s skill set may have become more refined and sophisticated in its taste, but that doesn’t mean he’s gone soft on us.  Indeed, he’s actually grown much sharper.

He’s cleaved off extraneous waste from his aesthetic, and in return he’s able to focus his energies to the point of laser precision.  One only needs to look at GONE GIRL’s gut-churning sex/murder sequence to see that he hasn’t lost his unflinching eye for the macabre and his affinity for stunning his audience out of complacency.

He may be older, yes, but in many ways, he’s still that same young buck eager to shock the world with Gwyneth’s head in a box.


Author Cameron Beyl is the creator of The Directors Series and an award-winning filmmaker of narrative features, shorts, and music videos.  His work has screened at numerous film festivals and museums, in addition to being featured on tastemaking online media platforms like Vice Creators Project, Slate, Popular Mechanics and Indiewire. 

THE DIRECTORS SERIES is an educational collection of video and text essays by filmmaker Cameron Beyl exploring the works of contemporary and classic film directors. 


David Fincher’S FILMOGRAPHY

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IFH 622: The REAL State of Indie Film with Alrik Bursell

Alrik Bursell is a filmmaker, producer, cinematographer, editor and director. His been working in video production for over 10 years and worked on everything from feature films, to broadcast commercials to DVD instructional videos, if those even exist any more.

Alrik’s first feature film The Alternate was shot in the winter of 2019, did it’s film festival run playing over 20 film festivals and winning 15 awards worldwide, and have secured worldwide distribution for the film, which is coming out in the USA/Canada in September 2022.

The Alternate follows Jake, a videographer who discovers a portal to another dimension in which he has everything he has always wanted: the perfect version of his wife Kris, the filmmaking career of his dreams, and the daughter he never had.

Jake quickly starts traveling back and forth between these two worlds – spying on his other self, falling in love with the alternate Kris, and getting to know his daughter. Jake soon sees that his alternate is not as perfect as he seems and decides to change places with the alternate Jake and take the good life for himself.

Please enjoy my conversation with Alrik Bursell.

Alrik Bursell 0:00
As a filmmaker, you should just be aware of what you're up against and that like, these fantastical fantasy outcomes are like so so unlikely that they should not at all be embedded in your your your hopes and dreams for the success of your movie.

Alex Ferrari 0:17
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur how to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com I'd like to welcome back to the show returning champion. Alrik Bursell, How you doing Alrik?

Alrik Bursell 0:34
Doing good! Thanks for having me, Alex. I'm like so stoked to be back, man.

Alex Ferrari 0:38
Yeah, man. Thanks for coming back on the show. Man. I'm excited to talk about your new film The alternate, which is I know a long gestating project. I think

Alrik Bursell 0:50
The last time I was on the show, I was like in crowdfunding, like super sweaty, super nervous, just like please help me make people.

Alex Ferrari 1:00
Please help me please. Oh, sir. Can I have another cup of porridge?

Alrik Bursell 1:04
It happened though. So thank you, everyone.

Alex Ferrari 1:08
So now I wanted to have you on the show. Not to only talk about your new film, but I think it's a great opportunity to talk about the state of independent film, because it changes so rapidly so often in our business. I mean, yeah, God, I mean, it's from from basically from the 90s on it's been so 80s on basically, but the 90s on, it's really just changed so much. And it seems to be changing faster and faster. Every every month, there's something new showing up some new service coming up some new way to make money some way some new way, we're getting screwed by somebody, or some company or something. So there's always something so I'd love to hear your opinion on from your point of view. And from you know, obviously you do the interviews on Making movies is hard. And with Liz and and you guys are kind of on the pulse as well as I am on what's happening in the indie world. So in your opinion, what do you think? Where do you think the state of independent film is, sir?

Alrik Bursell 2:05
Well, I guess let's like try to define it a little bit better. Like do you mean, like indie film with like anybody? Like including, like known well known filmmakers? Like, you know, the Darren Aronofsky is of the world and people who are like making indie film, quote, unquote, on their own, but like you have budgets and things are you talking about, like the little, you know, people I'm talking about?

Alex Ferrari 2:29
Let's just put it this way. How many Darren Aronofsky is are listening to us right now? All right. So that so I don't Sure.

Alrik Bursell 2:37
It just frustrates me because like, you look at fucking indie wire or whatever, or some of these places, and they're like, indie film, and then they just start quoting all these like 5 million $10 million movies. And you're like, that's not really what indie film is, like, indie film to me is like million or under, you know, and people who are just scraping their budgets together, like don't don't necessarily have any massive talent, no one would know who they are. You know, like, that's kind of where I see like, indie film, it's like, the movies that like, you know, XYZ is picking up, you know, and like, you know, companies like that, like the smaller and

Alex Ferrari 3:11
A24, you know, the A24's of the world.

Alrik Bursell 3:13
Yeah, barely all the A24's is like, if you get to A24 toilet you kinda already.

Alex Ferrari 3:19
I mean, I'm seeing I'm seeing a bunch of the A24 films lately, and there's some that I have no idea other than the director who the hell they are. So there are those, but then there's the of course, they're everything everywhere all at once. Crowd as well. But yeah, but no.

Alrik Bursell 3:34
Yeah. But that's movies and stuff. saphenous is like, you know, booksmart Yeah, etc. It's like, you know, come on. I mean, like, I feel like A24. Like, maybe they are picking up some stuff that's like, you know, from these unknown, like struggling filmmakers, but I think for the most part, like if you get on their radar, it's like, you've kind of ascended to like another scope, then, you know, the majority of indie filmmakers?

Alex Ferrari 3:57
Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

Alrik Bursell 3:59
I should say.

Alex Ferrari 3:59
So no, I think so. To answer your question. I do think that like the the whale and the, you know, Darren Aronofsky is film that's coming out and a bunch of other films that you know, everything everywhere all at once is, quote, unquote, an indie film. And I would say it is because I talked to the boys. And it was it wasn't a $500 million movie though. Or it was basically the craft service budget of Dr. Strange. And they both match the multiverse in a very different way. So I think the state of independent film I think the artistic state, at that level is going strong. There's still a place for it. It's harder now I think to even be seen than it was five years ago, 10 years ago. But I'm talking more about the state of independence. What like, like the alternate like that kind of film?

Alrik Bursell 4:47
Well, yeah, I mean, I felt like you know, the what I'm seeing is, you know, you really Yeah, shoot your ass off to make your movie. You know, and then like, if you're lucky you get into like some some really great film festivals, you know? And then if you're a spike will the 1% you get into like, you know, South by Southwest, or these game changing film festivals that like, you know, agents and managers are suddenly paying attention to you, and you're getting those kinds of offers, and then your career is like, whatever, you know, but that's like such a small percentage of filmmakers, it's like, yeah, like, like, literally the 1%, you know, and then everyone else, it's like, you're basically get get you get into this film festivals, you're trying to get the best absolute distribution deal you possibly can. And then, you know, you get pumped out into until the digital marketplace, most likely, maybe you get on the streamer, maybe you'll get on the stream, or eventually later down the line in your in the life of your movie, but it's kind of like you're just out in the ether. And that's sort of up to you to do the promotion, and to get people to watch your movie. And then in that case, when you go with a distributor, is you gotta like split the profits and everything. But I think, you know, with going with a distributor, you get like, a lot of other bonuses, you know, like,

Alex Ferrari 5:58
Yeah, like not getting paid, like not getting paid. And, and no rewards, like access to a good depends, depends depends on,

Alrik Bursell 6:05
You could probably hire the same PR team, that your distributors hiring, you know, whatever, and do it on your own, and pay that money upfront, but like having that kind of support in the infrastructure can be helpful, like, we did get a lot of access, you know, to different outlets through them. And our, you know, our trailer ended up picking up like, you know, 160,000 plus hits, you know, on YouTube, kind of through, like, the work that that team did have, like, you know, hitting up all these different channels, and like getting the word out on the movie. So I think like, to some extent, like unless you want to be like, you know, managing a PR firm yourself, and then paying that cost up front, which is like, you know, you already spent all this money making the movie, like, do you really have another $5,000 to pay a PR team out of your own pocket, you know, when when you're going to distribute, maybe maybe you do, you know, if you want to do self distribution, but I basically feel like, I guess the state of what I'm saying is that, you know, even at the highest, like, even I had, like a level of success that is like, it's like really exciting and acceptable, we're kind of all on the same playing field still, you know, and like, it's like, kind of up to the filmmaker to to get the word out and their movie, and to, you know, have it, you know, recoup its investment hopefully. And then if not, like, you know, at least get you on to your next project. So I feel like that's sort of what the first feature I really feel like is useful for is like, you know, using that as like, you know, what your short film used to be like, your mom used to be your calling card. Now, I feel like your first feature is your calling card, getting those reviews, like you know, on Rotten Tomatoes, and like getting a rotten tomatoes rating, or, you know, at least just getting some positive reviews from some sort of critic, it's like, that's all ammunition you can use to make your next movie, like when you're approaching investors and protein production companies, you can point to your, your successes, and then that can be like, Okay, well here, let Now trust me to you know, take a little bit more money and go make my next movie, you know,

Alex Ferrari 8:00
So is the is the first feature, in your opinion, a loss leader? Or is there is there so

Alrik Bursell 8:07
I mean, I mean, I feel like there is like some potential but I think especially as a filmmaker, like you're definitely not expecting to get any any kind of payment on the first feature, you know, if you're lucky to get your investors money back, but like you as yourself, like, you're not gonna get any kind of pain.

Alex Ferrari 8:23
But isn't that but isn't that I mean, look, you know, I know we look at things from the artistic filmmaker and sanity Kearney world that we live in, it is insane, right? Here's the delusion that we have ingrained in us at a DNA level to be even in this business. But on a business standpoint, you look at it and like, it makes our business is so insane, that you spotted spend $100,000 on on a product and have no idea truly how to make that money back. Or, or million dollar hopeful hopefully, if you're at the million dollar stage, you've got a few things in place to guarantee it.

Alrik Bursell 9:05
But it seems like a lot of people even at the million dollar range are kind of in the same boat as $100,000 range. It's like I think when you get to the for the presale deal and you're like making a deal with a distributor, you're before you make the movie, and they're given you an MG before you even you know, go out and shoot anything. I think that's kind of where, like, it actually makes a little bit more sense business wise, where you're like, not just like, you know, hemorrhaging money into a project. But, you know, getting those deals isn't easy, you know, and passable set up and everything. I mean, I've seen it done a lot, you know, and like have people on the show and like talk to other people who like this is what they do. But it's it's definitely not like as easy as it sounds, you know, it's pretty hard to get that kind of, you know, that magic little deal to happen.

Alex Ferrari 9:50
Right! Exactly. And it is all those kinds of deals are all star based. They're not. They're not they're not artistic based. They're not like oh you

Alrik Bursell 9:58
It almost doesn't even matter.

Alex Ferrari 9:59
If it means, obviously because we've seen a lot of Nick Cage movies Bruce Willis movie,

Alrik Bursell 10:06
It just has to be like in the right genre. It has to have like the right no member of thrills it has to feature the star enough. And it's like it's got to hit some some beats. But besides that, like, yeah, it can be whatever.

Alex Ferrari 10:17
Yeah. And it's, I mean, I mean, I'm going to AFM this year. Are you going to him this year?

Alrik Bursell 10:23
Going to be out there, though, with multibillionaire. So if anyone's looking for cyber filler and international market. Yeah, we'll be out there on the booth, you know.

Alex Ferrari 10:36
So, you know, Bob, I'm going to be out there at AFM this year. And, and every time I go to AFM, it's just it's a it's an absolute education for people to go out there. Because yeah, even if they have no movie just to walk around to see how movies are sold. It is you have been there, right?

Alrik Bursell 10:52
Yeah, I went once and I tried, I was foolish enough to think that I could try to raise money for the alternate before it was made at AFM. And I did like 20 pitches to all these different companies and everything. And they told me all told me the same thing. It's like, oh, well, either if you have the budget, or you have the cast, or cast and half the budget, then we can talk. But if you don't have at least half the budget, or cast, or cast, you know, then we're not we don't care.

Alex Ferrari 11:18
There's not even a conversation. It's not even a conversation.

Alrik Bursell 11:21
And at that point, it's like, well, if I had cast in money, why would I even need you? I would just make

Alex Ferrari 11:26
Exactly, exactly. But you know, I was talking to a client the other day, who made a movie at the sub $100,000 range. And they they made them and they came to me and they're like, What do you think? And I'm like, You're not gonna make a dime. And then they're like, Well, what do I do and like, recast one of the spot one of your parts with a name actor, go out and get somebody for a day for like 10 or 10, or 15, grand, and Shoot it, shoot them out in a day, pepper them out for the entire movie, make sure there's enough of him in the movie or her in the movie. And now you've got someone on the thumbnail. And now you've got an opportunity to maybe make your money back. But without that person, you're you're dead in the water. And I just know, it's not a made. It's an absolute fact, because of the

Alrik Bursell 12:19
Oh, the kind of movie. Okay,

Alex Ferrari 12:21
That's the thing. It depends on the genre. So the genre of the film was not action. It wasn't, it wasn't one of those jobs. And it wasn't like, our house backyard film. So it wasn't like, it didn't, it didn't have a place to be. So I'm like, Dude, the only way you're gonna even try even remotely have a shot is getting a face on on the thumbnail. And he's exactly what he did. We worked and got a name actor, we worked with a distributor. And we went to the distributor and said, Hey, give me a list of 10 people who you would be interested in this bill, if they were in it. We went through the list and we just started knocking them off and making offers until finally one said yes. And we got him shot him out in the day peppered him throughout the entire movie. He's like, Oh, my God, the movie so much better. I'm like, yes, because you've got a real, like an actor who has real credits, who's a real professionals been doing this for years. And now we're going to go into the marketplace, but there's a fighting chance at that it's sub 100,000. It's sub 100,000. So that's it's a good, it's a good kind of place to be as a filmmaker is a sub 100,000. Because you start going to 5300 every every 10 grand that you go up, you better just know your shit better.

Alrik Bursell 13:34
Yeah, no, it's totally like keeping keeping your costs low. It definitely helps the chance of recruitment for sure. You know, and I think like, if you're self distributing, like if you can make $50,000 That's, you know, a genre film, you know, like an Action, Thriller, Horror, sci fi, whatever. I think the chances of recouping on 50k You know, especially if you're cutting out all the middle people is really high. But you know, then you have to ask yourself, like, what do you want to do with your life? Like, do you want to be you know, promoting a movie and selling a movie for like, two years? Like, it's kind of, you know, some people are really into that. And some people like me, like, don't really want to be like I can, I can spend, you know, like, a couple of months promoting a movie, but like, I can't do it for a year. That's just too much.

Alex Ferrari 14:18
Right! And that's the end. That's another that's another thing that's really interesting, because before you know, when you go to film school, they teach you how to make, you know, $100 million movie. And that's what they teach you to that like, and they tell you, you could do this, you could be the next Chris Nolan. And that's fine. And you might be but chances are, you're not going to be because there's only so many Chris Nolan's in the world. But I think that before there was a problem getting into the business because things are so expensive to make movies were expensive to make good high quality was expensive to make. But now that the bed the barrier to entry is so minimal. You could make I mean, I made my last two features for sub 10,000 and got one of them I got one of them on Hulu, the other one was sold and both of them were sold internationally, and I made my money back fairly quickly. But yeah, but the

Alrik Bursell 15:02
10,000 or less, that's, you know, you know, I mean, you got a chance,

Alex Ferrari 15:08
You gotta, you have a much better chance with with, you know, one had more faces in it than the other one didn't the other one had no stars in it. But it was basically experiments for me, it was just kind of like, let's see what happens. And I was expressing myself as an artist and all that kind of good stuff. But I think the problem we have now it's not that we can't make a movie, it's we can't get our movie seen. So if the filmmaker moving forward doesn't have some plan in place to get the movie in front of eyeballs to get into. And that's why I wrote my book about, you know, finding a niche, focusing on that niche and trying to build product or build films for that niche to get in front of that audience. Either you do it yourself, which I agree with you not everybody's got that, that thing in them that they can sell. So I get that, but they need to have something in place, whether that be working with a PR firm, having a producer who's really good partner with someone who's really good at it. And I think the end is that maybe have a distributor and distributors that I know. And in my experience, they're trying to figure shit out to

Alrik Bursell 16:09
No that and they're kind of in the same boat as we are, you know,

Alex Ferrari 16:14
They don't know what to do either. And they're trying to figure it all out. And I mean, I went to meetings at AFM during the whole distributor debacle, when that went down. And I got on my Yeah, and when I broke that story, I you know, my face was all over the place. So all these distributors were bringing me in to like, try to, you know, whoo, my apparent like two or 3000 filmmakers, I pulled together in a Facebook group that were pissed off a distributor. And they're like, Oh, give us those films. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll take the meeting. And I would ask them, and they would just tell me their shtick. And I'm like, let me ask you, what do you do this, he doesn't have any idea how you're going to make money back on these films, he does not. Now we just throw as many, we throw as much shit against the wall as we can, and something usually sticks. And that was really eye opening to me when they said that, because it's just before there was a plan that before there was like, you went to a distributor, they had this, this, this, this, this, this, this, I can go through this, I get money from this than this. And that still does exist at the 5 million and above the Nic Cage films, the, you know, 20 million and below that kind of genre stuff that still exists. But for the 100,000 and below 500,000, or below million and below, unless there's talent involved. It's it's very, very difficult for them to try to find a place in the marketplace. And then also, for when your movie is done. There's about 3000 other films sitting waiting to come in. So yeah, they don't spend as much time on your films. Is that Is that a fair statement?

Alrik Bursell 17:44
I think so. Yeah. I mean, like, when I was talking to my distributor for the alternate, like, you know, he definitely had a little bit more care into his thoughts about it, you know, like, he was like, you know, this, this is similar to a movie that we had a few years ago, we did really well with it, we think that this has a lot of potential to do the same kind of business, you know, and, you know, he kind of like went in it with that way, and that they were very strategic, or the way they were creating the art, I loved my art that I made, I thought it was beautiful. I have it on my, you know, framed poster over there. But like, you know, they're like, all the distributors like my, my international in the US were like, this is just not gonna work, you know, this just is not going to sell. And so then they made one and then like, suddenly that that's the one that everyone likes, it's their own the trailer, that distributor made the US distributor, then international distributors using that same poster, and I guess they're having a lot more success with it. But that poster, so it's just really interesting, the way it all works, and the whole the way the whole business works, and like what is eye catching? What makes people click, you know, and the theories behind it. But again, in the end, like you said, no one really knows. We won't know if it worked until we see the first quarter numbers,

Alex Ferrari 18:50
I'd argue second or third quarter numbers. Because it's, you know, AFM is coming up, and then hopefully, Ken will come up after that. And those would be the two big markets that they go to sell your film at. But it's, you just don't know. And that's the other thing you said very, you said something that's really important for people listening to understand, won't the poster that made them click? That is something that needs to be in the head of filmmakers because there's still this magical dreamlike thing with theatrical and yeah, all that and that's wonderful. And we all you know, many of us grew up with the theatrical experience and I want my movie in a movie everything every filmmaker wants their movie in a theater, because it's it's the ultimate experience of it. But unfortunately, unless you're Chris Nolan, you don't have the juice to do that all the time. So you're gonna live on a thumbnail? Yeah, and

Alrik Bursell 19:53
That is not even the best assignment the best thing for your movie, you know, exactly. Make a movie under a million dollars like you probably don't want To put the movie into theaters, because you're just gonna lose all this money paying for that and like the, the, like the the last you're gonna get from the from the theater owners or whatever. And then, you know, in the end, it's like you're taking taking away juice, as you'd like to say from the, you know, the online sales, because that's where you're really gonna get your money. But if it's like split between theatrical, and you know, the online, like, then you're not going to make as much money online. And, you know, like, that's where your real money I think is going to come in. So I feel like the theatrical is like a really beautiful thing. And if the distributor wants to do it, and they can make it work or whatever, like totally great, like, let's do it, but like, you know, I wouldn't push it filmmaker, I would let the people know what makes money and what doesn't make money, make those decisions, you know, if they think that the actual runs good for your movie, and you're actually gonna see some, some extra revenue from it, then great, but I just don't think that's 90% of, you know, movies at this budget level, you know,

Alex Ferrari 20:56
And isn't it interesting though, that you know, in the 80s, in the 90s, our films had a, a movie, you would be able to either buy it for 20 bucks on DVD, or VHS, or you would get someone would have bought it and other people rent it. Then when TVOD showed up, iTunes showed up, then you got 399 for your movie and 999 for your movie, that was your value of your movie per customer is that before obviously before that theatrical, you know, there was a ticket sale, and you would get a split of the ticket sales. And that was the value of your movie, where in today's world, the Netflix thing, the Netflix effect, and the Amazon Prime effect has now brought our our product down to less than a penny for review. And that's what the value in the marketplace is for our films without a major star or something that loves, like, brings it up or niche or, you know, word of mouth or festival that maybe gives it some sort of juice. But what do you think of that?

Alrik Bursell 21:59
I think that's why behooves you to keep your movie on for sale or rent or as long as possible and like not go to prime not go to these other, you know, avenues until you've really exhausted your sales, through rentals. And in, you know, digital sales, you know, or if you have a DVD or your DVD sales, you know, but I feel like a lot of people I see this even with people who are doing self distribution, they just want the movie to be out so people can see it. So they can like say, Oh, just click on Prime video, just click so they just upload the prime and they get it out quickly. And it's like, oh, no, no, no, if you made a movie for even $1,000 Like, don't just put it on prime, like make your friends and family or your network, rent it or buy it. And then suddenly, you're gonna get that $1,000 back, you know, but if you just put on an app, like you said, you're never gonna get not even $1,000. So you're never gonna get $1,000 back on Amazon Prime. I mean, maybe after like five years.

Alex Ferrari 22:53
Not even not even. I mean, it's literally it's literally they're trying to get fractions of a penny now, like they gotten down to a penny. And they're figuring out and in fractions of a penny for for certain for certain films. But the place that I've seen and I've I've been talking about for a while now is a VOD, a VOD seems to be the place where there is money still to be made. And even more so the next level of a VOD in something that people the filmmakers are really like, their egos get really twisted into not because of this is YouTube. If you can get on these YouTube movie channels that have 1,000,002 million, 5 million subscribers, and get a piece of that ad revenue, which is do YouTube as a VOD, you know, it's not just to be included in and freebie these are. These are real places. I see the numbers from from distributors. And I'm like, wow, this is the Avon is the place where I still make the most money off of my movies. And I think it's kind of where we're the it's the hopefully the place where we can make the most money because at that point is like someone clicks. And if your movie is good enough, and keeps them playing and watching, you're gonna get ad revenue. So it really is about how good your movie is. Have you heard the same thing and your world? Pretty much?

Alrik Bursell 24:16
Yeah, I feel like a VOD is becoming like a real crown jewel for returns for films at our level, you know, and some people even recommend, like just go straight to a bar and like don't even spend time on you know, the rental and the sales but like I feel like you know, for certain movies or just I guess certain distributors like they still feel that that's a role, you know, great place to make, you know, a big chunk of revenue. So they still want the six months or whatever a year, however long it is like doing you know those sales and then go to Avon afterwards.

Alex Ferrari 24:48
You know, it's really interesting with the whole TiVo thing, because everybody I talked to everybody I talked to you. Nobody makes money on TV unless you can drive traffic unless you can drive traffic and most distributors don't understand how to drive traffic, sit to hold it for six months. And T VOD is I feel I mean, unless the numbers are coming in, you're like, oh shit. But T VOD is just because it's up on iTunes and up on Amazon Prime Amazon to purchase or rent unless you can.

Alrik Bursell 25:17
Although Yeah, this is in YouTube and whatnot.

Alex Ferrari 25:19
Fandango. We know that stuff. You get five cents from Fandango. And you'd be amazed. But it's I talked to so many distributors now who are just like, I just want to go to Avon in the filmmakers are freaking out. And they go, they just don't understand that that's where the money is. And if you could drive all the traffic from the beginning to a VOD, you'll make more money than you will letting it sit on T VOD, because, unless you can drive traffic look, I had I had a success story of entrepreneurs successful Mark Toya who made a million dollar robot, you know, action movie in this, which sounds horrible in the in the jungle?

Alrik Bursell 25:57
To me, I love rice kinds of movies.

Alex Ferrari 25:59
What that movie, but the reason why that works is because the visual effects were on par with anything that the Marvel did Marvel Studios has ever put out. It's so good. I can't express to you how good it is. So he's gotta hear it. He had a over a million dollar deal with a distributor. And he just looked at the contract. He's like, I'm never gonna get my money. upfront, by the way, it was it was a million something upfront. And he's like, I'm never gonna make my money with the way this contracts laid out. Screw it. I'm just going to self distribute. And he self distributed the whole thing. And he's made I think it's six, six or $7 million. At this point. He made all his money. He made all the money back of the budget in three months on T VOD. But he ran Facebook ads. He ran YouTube ads here and just he was that PR firm that you're talking about? Right? Because he comes from a commercial background and he enjoyed it. And it worked fine for him. But it is possible in today's world, and he's still making money still making money. He's like, Yeah, I'm going to release another one. I'm going to I'm going to put another TV ad campaign out and I'm just and he's still got while is it? I don't think he's gone. I don't think he's gone to a VOD yet. I think he's he might have gone to it. Yeah, he did go to Avon prime. Yeah, he did to prime. And he put he's like Alex, I was making. I think he said like 30,000 a month on a VOD. And he was a billion minutes stream. And he's like, this is ridiculous. Why am I getting such little money? For so much? Amazon is getting so it's just like, but this world that we live in? It's crazy. Yeah.

Alrik Bursell 27:34
I wonder if he because I was on Prime right. Getting that which one of the one where it's like, you know, he was getting billions of images viewed and then getting 30,000 hours back. That was Amazon Prime.

Alex Ferrari 27:44
Yeah. But then he took by the way, he took it off Amazon Prime. He's like, screw this. And I'll just he's done. So he won't he's not doing any AVOD anymore. Right now. He might go into the two b's.

Alrik Bursell 27:54
I was wondering like what is to retail? It must be way better than that. You know, like if he was getting an early minutes viewed on TV, he probably getting lots and lots of money back?

Alex Ferrari 28:02
I'm not sure. And I have to remember. I'm not sure if he's on TV already. He hasn't been on TV yet. But that film will be top 10. On TV. It was called monsters of man. Okay, how to look at Monster monsters of man. Yeah, I have two interviews with them. The first one was us discussing him going on this adventure to do a million dollar self distribution experiment because he didn't give a care. He didn't care about the money. And he's like, Screw it. I don't care. And then two and a half years later, he comes back and he's like, Yeah, made about six $7 million at this. And I'm still going. Thank you. Thank you for your book, Alex. I'm like, Oh, Jesus. All right. So. So there is that was a wonderful case. That's a lot. That's like a turn. But it is a huge return. But he even told me he's like, I go he's gonna be a sequel. Because probably not because this is not a real business. He because he comes from the commercial world. So he's been doing commercials for 30 years. And he goes, That's yeah, he goes, Alex, I make more money on my stock footage than I do doing this stuff. Because it's that's a real business. And I was like, wow, and he's a businessman, and he's, you know, owns real estate and other things like that. So it's really interesting to see. And he and by the way he's been offered. He's been talking to all the big I mean, he won't say who but we all know, there's probably a superhero company or two that's talked to him already. And he's, and he's because what he was able to do, he was top I think when he went on to on iTunes, he was like number two. I think I think endgame was the only thing ahead of him. Like he just he just and people were like, Who the hell is this guy? Where did he come from? Why is this look so good? He did this for how much shadow Shadow Ball on reds. He's like had three or four reds with them and shattered all up in the jungles of the Philippines and stuff like that. Never never built a set, never built a set everything location.

Alrik Bursell 29:53
Wow. Wow, amazing.

Alex Ferrari 29:55
These are all great. These are great stories. But that's an anomaly. You're talking about it. Yeah,

Alrik Bursell 30:01
I mean, it kind of brings me to like, my overall point about independent filmmaking is like you're not, you're not really doing it for the money, right? You're doing it because you want to make movies. And because you have stories to tell, and you this is, this is the thing that you want to do with your life. And I don't think you even think you're doing it to like, necessarily start this career, that's going to be your main thing forever. I mean, we all hope that's what it ends up being. And we all hope that we get to that level. But I think if you're going out to make an independent film, like you should be just thinking about it as like, you're creating this piece of art that you need to create, because you are an artist, and you're a filmmaker, and you have the story that you have to tell and share with the world and that you want people to see. But like putting any more weight behind this than that, I think you're just gonna be let down. Because like, if you're, if you're going into it, like trying to make a bunch of money, or even getting a return on your investment, or, you know, getting an agent or a manager or starting your career, or you're gonna like start directing television, or I'm gonna get offers from Marvel or whatever, like all those kinds of things, like, you know, that's all pipe dream stuff. And I think like if you go into making your movie with those sort of pipe dreams, and that's like your expectation, there's nowhere that you can go but down, like, you're only going to be let down from experience. But if you go into it thinking like I have this movie I want to make, I'm really excited about it, I love the story. Like I really want to get this out to show people I want my movie to, you know, hopefully inspire someone else to make their movie or like, inspire them to think about like characters or my story, or whatever it is, if you go into it with that, like, you're more than likely going to enjoy the experience, because you're probably going to hear from at least one or two people who connected with your movie once you finally finish it and release it, you know. And so I think those are the kinds of reasons we should be going into making a movie like we should be focusing on the art itself, like not the outcomes of the art, which are completely out of our control. You know,

Alex Ferrari 31:51
That's what I do with my first two movies, I did the exact same thing. I finally because most of my career, I was under that delusion, of like this short film is going to blow me up or this thing is the thing that's going to take me to

Alrik Bursell 32:04
Have that right,

Alex Ferrari 32:05
Right. Right. So then I finally just I went, I'm like, I'm just gonna go make a movie. 3030 days later, I was shooting my movie after the moment, I said, I'm gonna go make a movie. And then that's the one that gets sold to Hulu. And that's the one that gets sold internationally. And then I shoot that other one at Sundance for four days. And, you know, and just go and just make a movie. I'm like, I don't know what's gonna happen with it. I as I was flying home, I was like, I don't know if I have a movie. Like, I didn't have time to see if I shot all the footage I needed. I don't know, I think I did. You know, things like that. So it's kind of like this. I when I let go of the outcome, man became much easier, much more fun to make movies. But let me ask you this, then why, and I know you've met a lot of filmmakers. And I know you are one as well as I, why is there so much delusion? In this profession? I mean, Cookie makers don't have this delusion, like I'm gonna make the greatest cookie ever. Generally doesn't. It doesn't work in other architects like, I don't want to make the biggest figures ever think of Frank Lloyd who? I'm the one like you don't say I'm sure they don't those people.

Alrik Bursell 33:10
Architects maybe a little bit closer that cookie makers but

Alex Ferrari 33:14
But but generally speaking, it's not. It's not that the infestation in the entire populace of that, that that group of artists is not as delusional as filmmakers and screenwriters for that matter, because what is it about this art form? Painters aren't that musicians? Maybe? But again, there's no, there's not that it's just I find such a delusion in what we do with so many people. So why do you think that?

Alrik Bursell 33:44
I can, I feel like it's embedded in the art form in a lot of ways. You know, like, if you look at, like, just think of like, the classic phrase, like, I'm gonna make you a star kid, you know, it's like, this has been going on since the beginning of cinema, like this whole idea that like, you can be a star on the stage of the screen, you know, and so I think you're going into making your movie, it's kind of natural to think like, yes, like, I could be the next Robert Rodriguez. Like, he did it. He scrapped his movie together as $7,000 or whatever. And like, now, he's a big star, like, I could be like Robert Rodriguez or Quentin Tarantino, or, like, you know, all these, like, complete, like, outliers in the industry. And it's like, you just, you know, you fall in love with these movies in with these artists, and then you kind of like, you know, start to see, like, Oh, I could be like that, like, that could be me, you know, you sort of see your idea of your movie and your art getting to that level. And so I think it's just sort of a natural progression. But I think, you know, it's obviously completely misguided. And I think it's into some way it's almost sold to us, you know, like, like, oh, well, what are the filmmakers by the Hollywood selves behind Hollywood? It's like this, like really enticing, like, yeah, come out to Hollywood and make your fortune, you know, it's like, you know, it's like this whole like, sort of thing and I think You know, you gotta look at and like maybe back, you know, in the 80s in the 90s, like it was much more likely that that could work out for you in that way.

Alex Ferrari 35:08
But less competition, less competition different marketplace. Absolutely. I know every month marketplace Yeah, every every in the 90s. Every month there was a Richard Linklater, a Spike Lee, John Singleton, Robert Rodriguez Tarantino and Kevin Smith. I mean, I could just keep the list keeps going on and on. Of every almost every month, it was one of these magical stories, Napoleon Dynamite, Joe Carnahan. I mean, it was just constant in the 90s

Alrik Bursell 35:32
More lucrative back then to like, AHS marketplace, you know, D Mark, in the marketplace, like, I think those two kind of lead into each other. And like, it was a way that people could, you could make a movie for zero money, and you could make a big profit, you know, like, and, obviously, movies cost a lot more back then. So it couldn't be zero. But like, you could make a movie for like, whatever, half a million dollars, a million dollars or something. And then like, you know, get a big profit back. But, but yeah, it's just not the same anymore. Like, you know, like, like, it's like the whole Napster effect of everything. It's affected films, it's affected everything, you know, all art form is suffering for it. And I think like now, you basically, you can't get that big of return on a movie so easily. It's like it's much, much more difficult. And I think going into it, like, as a filmmaker, you should just be aware of what you're up against. And that like, these fantastical fantasy outcomes are like so so unlikely that they should not at all be embedded in your your, your hopes and dreams for the success of your movie. Like you should definitely try to like, like, it's good to have dreams. It's good to have fantasies, but it's good to separate rate them from the art you're creating. Because like you don't want it to be entangled, because then you're just going to think that your art sucks if you're not famous after you make it.

Alex Ferrari 36:51
Right. And then you go into a depression, and then you just figuring it out, and all this kind of stuff. But isn't it fascinating that I know a lot of people listening to us right now are saying that's for everybody else. That's not going to be me. Yeah. Am I wrong? Am I wrong? Am I wrong? How many people listening right now have that thought in their head? Like, that's for other people? That doesn't? That's not me. And

Alrik Bursell 37:15
The other one that's different.

Alex Ferrari 37:17
But dude, I'd say the same thing. You said the same thing. We all we all go through this process. And only after years of being battle hardened by the business. And by the way, all of those stories that we're talking about the Roberts and the and the Clintons and the Kevin Smith's and all of that stuff. I've had a lot of those guys on the show. And I've talked to them about their struggles at the beginning. And they knew it was real for them at the beginning to hear they had success. But there was no guarantee for that success. And by the way, the one common The one common thing that I've gotten from all of those kind of like those 90s filmmakers I've had a pleasure of talking to is none of them had an outcome that they had in mind. None of them none of Robert wanted to go to the straight video market. That was a that's all he cared about.

Alrik Bursell 38:08
Business he saw that business opportunity. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 38:11
Right that was it. He wasn't expecting to get signed by Sony and and get it and he didn't even want a mariachi to be released. He's like, no, no, no, no, that was just I was gonna go straight to video. I didn't know that's not my first movie. He was freaking out about it. And like it's something like what Ed Burns did with Brothers McMullen where he was working as a PA at E.T. Entertainment Tonight. And they had Robert Redford showed up to do press for quiz show. And in the elevator as the doors are closing, Edward comes in hands him a VHS copy of brothers like Bolton's rough night. Here. This is my movie, Robert, please take a look at it. Three months later gets a call from Sundance. Yeah, Robert gave us a VHS how's that movie coming along? It's an almost done how can you plan that? That's what that was. Then saying like you hear these kinds of stories, you're just like, but that's the stuff that feeds the delusion. I think it just it's we all like how many people listening right now have put together a business plan? Probably not a lot but the people who have put together a business plan to raise money are using these as references of how movies are made. Blair Witch Project. Paranormal Activity, Napoleon Dynamite. Like did you think that

Alrik Bursell 39:27
You're gonna take the outliers off your

Alex Ferrari 39:32
You can't do it but that's every time I've read a business proposal. If it's a horror movie, absolutely. Blair Witch and, and paranormal activity are they and saw and saw

Alrik Bursell 39:41
Yeah, you got to take those out. You got to like look at the movies that are like, you know, not the ones that you know, completely exceeded expectations and blew up and were special movies of the moment or whatever, you know, like, like looking at like I don't know, like when I when I was making my deck for the altar and I looked at this movie called Spring I don't know if you've seen spring but um It's like a sci fi thriller that was made for, you know, right around the same budget as my movie. It did get to Sunday. And that Sunday in South by Southwest, I believe and you know, it did really well, I think was an XYZ movie. But like, those are the kinds of movies I was looking at, like ones that were made around for the same budget as mine, you know, didn't have stars, like, mine was gonna have stars and like, try to find those movies that look like your movie. But like, don't put a movie in there that doesn't look like your movie, because then you're instantly gonna do you know displeased and in mislead even your investors to, you know, thinking that, you know, you're gonna get something that you you can never deliver, you know,

Alex Ferrari 40:37
Now let's talk about your new movie, the alternate how, how long did this film get? Just was just getting started, get made?

Alrik Bursell 40:45
Well, so yeah, I wrote the first draft and like, I believe it was March of 2014. So what's that, like, over eight years, until like, this,

Alex Ferrari 40:55
This is insanity. This is the insanity that we live in. As artists,

Alrik Bursell 40:58
It takes a long time takes a long time. I mean, you know, and I went to AFM to try to sell it or to raise money for it in 2017. And so basically, from 2017, till we shot in 20, the end of 2019. That was like when I was like, actively working on it, and like trying to get it made, you know, I mean, I was still working out that whole other time. But it was more like just trying to figure things out. And, you know, rewriting and rewriting and rewriting and, you know, failing at raising money over and over again. But then 2017 is when I raised my first amount of money, and then like, met my producer, you know, raise more money, and then eventually, you know, got it made a couple of years later. So yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while.

Alex Ferrari 41:40
It's been it's been a while, right? I always love asking this question of filmmakers. What was the, you know, as a director, there's always that day that the entire world comes crashing down around you. And that's generally everyday but what was the worst one on this day? What was the worst like moment in the production? And how did you overcome it?

Alrik Bursell 42:00
Yeah, I think it was the second day maybe of the shoot. And we were setting up the basement office set up for Jake, he's got this, you know, really cruddy office that he does his editing. And he's a filmmaker, sort of, like autobiographical in some way.

Alex Ferrari 42:15
I was, I was about to say, I was about to say,

Alrik Bursell 42:18
He's got a big beard, you know, come on, like, whatever. So, yeah, it was, I was in charge of the office, because I was I had all I was using my own computers, as Jake's computers in the office scene. So I was the one who was, you know, entrusted to, you know, make sure the computers were working and make sure that everything on the screen that needed to be, you know, on the screen was on the screen, and I was having all these issues, just trying to get set up, we were like, way behind, like, three hours behind on the second day in the office. And I had to like go and like, at lunch, I had to, like buy a hard drive, and like go pay like, like, get some money to pay somebody, like because I'm a producer too. So I had to like go to the bank get like a large amount of money. And like buy a hard drive. And like get back that was like during lunch and then get back and a half hour, 45 minutes or whatever to like, you know, direct and then somehow eat at some point. And I was just so upset man, oh, my God, and I recorded audio logs while I was making the movie. So like on on my podcast making movies, it's hard, you can actually hear the log of me like on my lunch break, like talking into the phone and just like freaking out about how everything is going wrong. And how we ever came in, I think I got back to the set after after getting those things. I just talked to my DP, I talked to my production designer. And we're just like, look, we're just going to do, we're just gonna, these are the scenes that we're going to be able to do today. This is what we're going to do, we're going to revise a schedule, I talked to my ad, obviously, and we just like, sort of broke down how you're going to solve it we got through the day. I don't think we went over if we did wasn't much. And then you know, we kind of had had to replan the rest of the week to make it work. And I think that was when we added another day to production because we were supposed to be out of the office in three days. And I think we ended up shooting in the office seating for four because we just had too much we had to do in there. But yeah, I think the way I overcame it was just like having these conversations with my team. Breathing slowing down, and then just you know, looking at the schedule, and then just like going, just checking off things that we don't have time to do moving them to another day and and making the movie man and you know, it ended up working out.

Alex Ferrari 44:24
Now, going with the theme of what the alternate is about which is kind of like alternate universes in the multiverse and that kind of thing. What would you if you had an opportunity to go back and talk to your younger self? And just for one thing, you could tell him and go okay, dude, this is going to be the trip about your filmmaking career. What is that one thing you wish you would have known at the beginning of your career that was really difficult for you to learn along the way?

Alrik Bursell 44:57
That you really just like you don't need anything Special, like, you don't need any, like special person or special chip or is this, there's nothing that you can learn, that's going to open up the doors and like, you know, make you able to make your movie, like, you just have to make your movie, you know, and I think like, once I made the feature, it was sort of like, this is just like making a short, but like, you know, 100 times harder, you know, it's just like, you know, and it's not like, you know, shorts, 10 minutes in the movies, 100 minutes, it's not like 10 times, it's literally 100 times harder to make a feature. But I think if I just had known that, you just have to do it yourself. And the same thing that I did to make my short is the same, it's the same exact process I'd have to do to make my feature, but I just knew that and I knew that I didn't need any special, you know, sign of approval or, you know, manager or agent or big production company or like big check from an investor or whatever if I if I knew that it wasn't about that and it was just about doing the same thing I've been doing. I think I might have been able to make the feature a little bit sooner if I had that kind of that kind of knowledge and confirmation that it's just like you just need to do it you know?

Alex Ferrari 46:08
Amen brother preach baby preach. I think so many of us always wait for permission to thy permission for somebody Yeah, from somebody didn't make it and I think I got caught up in that same thing. That's why I was like, I was waiting for permission for 40 years. And I just said screw it. I'm just gonna go make my movie the way I want to go make it I'm just gonna grab a camera and grab some friends and make a movie. And employ worked out. You know, thank God it worked out. But yeah, we are. I think that's also built into the system is like, Hey, you could be a star kid. But you need my permission first. Exactly. And that's kind of in the in the DNA of us as well. We're now we're trying to just like, No, you can go and do it yourself. And you can get out.

Alrik Bursell 46:52
There's nothing stopping you. You know, like, no matter who you are, where you are, like, you have the ability to go make your movie, you just need to buckle down and do it. You know,

Alex Ferrari 47:01
And to be smart and to be smart about it. Don't go and make a you know, 100 100,000 or $500,000 period drama piece with no stars in it. Expect to make your money back.

Alrik Bursell 47:12
Please don't do that. Movie. I mean, I just haven't I love genre movies. And that's all I make, you know. So like, that's what I do. But yeah, I'd say like, for your first feature, if you make it a genre movie, you're gonna have way better chance at success. And if you go with any other genre like John drama or even comedy comedies are hard, man, you know,

Alex Ferrari 47:32
Comedies and dramas are are just, we just walk around AFM and tell me how many comedies and dramas not family films, not faith

Alrik Bursell 47:44
Flintstones. Flintstones based on family

Alex Ferrari 47:47
Different different conversation. Why? Because you're focused on a niche, you know, throw Dean Cain in and have a puppy save Christmas, and you've got a movie that's going to sell.

Alrik Bursell 48:00
You gotta made man.

Alex Ferrari 48:01
I mean, is it the dog that saves Christmas movie? I've said it so many times on the show. Make a dog the same as Christmas movie? You'll sell it?

Alrik Bursell 48:08
Yeah, no kidding. I feel like I haven't a couple of filmmakers on who do faith based and family films. And yeah, they're doing good. Just to say that I don't really good.

Alex Ferrari 48:18
They do? Well, because it's an it's an audience that not a lot of filmmakers focus on and they need content. That's one area that doesn't have a lot of content. Family Films, believe it or not, not a lot of content, even romance, like romantic comedies. Hallmark has that kind of covered. But um, yeah, it's just tough, man. It is tough. So the Go twos are always action thrillers, and sci fi. And on a lesser extent, horror, obviously. But there's so much yeah, it's whole it because it's so easy to do a horror movie like that's, I mean, in the sense of production, not making a good horror movie, but just in the sense of production. Anybody can go get a monster mask, go in the forest kill a bunch of teenagers and then you got a horror movie, or scary movie in the house or something like that. And believe me, I've seen that movie too many times. Yes.

Alrik Bursell 49:13
Rather, the thing that's so funny is is a really good version of that movie that everybody's gonna want to watch a billion times, but there's also like, 1000 bad versions.

Alex Ferrari 49:25
Exact look, there's jaws and there's Sharknado and I don't know how many times I'm gonna watch Sharknado I've never seen it. I think I've seen clips of it.

Alrik Bursell 49:35
But just think of the money man Sharknado Boy, that was a success, but on success,

Alex Ferrari 49:41
But it was in by the way launched an entire genre of like, you know, the alligator you hurricane and like, you know, Velociraptor preacher or whatever that movie was and they just, they just started combining crazy things after Sharknado but when you hear Sharknado you're like, Oh, yeah. understand what that means. Yeah, it's just yeah, I get it. Tornadoes with sharks. Yeah, got it. Got it done. Done. But if you're gonna watch a killer shark movie, which is the one you're gonna watch again and again, it's jobs. Yeah. No Holds still holds to this day. Even with the fake shark. It's still wonder,

Alrik Bursell 50:14
I wonder what our children will be saying about jobs in 1020 years. If they'll be like, yeah, JAWS is so fantastic or Jaws is gonna die out with our generation.

Alex Ferrari 50:23
I don't. I don't, man. Jaws is a masterpiece in the sense that it's just, I think, because we don't see the shark so often. And because that's the reason if we saw a lot of shark, he would have it'd be dated. Yeah, but that's one of those movies that you like it was in the 70s There's a handful of 70s films that hold there's a lot but there's, but like the ones that stick out, like in the especially in this genre range. There's not a lot of genre. 70s films, there's great dramas, there's, you know, but like genre, JAWS obviously Star Wars movie like Rocky. Yeah, rocky holes.

Alrik Bursell 51:05
It's so good. So good. Yeah, these are the requirements. And these are like my favorite movies. Like, we I mean, alien.

Alex Ferrari 51:14
Alien is, I mean, alien is alien. I mean, but But again, it was, it was done at such a high level at that time. So Jaws is is a masterpiece. It is an absolute masterpiece, and in horror, and in thriller. And what Steven was able to do in that film is will never be redone. It's just you think about like,

Alrik Bursell 51:33
What he went through to get made and like how many days they shot and like the whole month, the whole shark thing? And it's like, it's crazy, man. It's crazy. No, it

Alex Ferrari 51:43
was it was insane. Insane. One day, I'll have Steven on the show. And I'll ask

Alrik Bursell 51:47
Please, can I can I sit in the corner when you have Steven on the show and listen in I would love.

Alex Ferrari 51:53
I'm sure everybody's gonna want to. I'm gonna want to sit in the corner. One day. So this is where I'm gonna ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests. What advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today?

Alrik Bursell 52:11
Yeah, just just make your movie. And if it's a short, if you haven't made a short yet make make a couple of shorts. If you've made a couple of shorts and you want to make a feature, go make a feature. Even if your heart is telling you I need to make a feature. I haven't never made anything before in my life. Make the feature just go out and make whatever you your heart is learn you know make because that's what's going to be good. And then that's what you'll learn from

Alex Ferrari 52:35
What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film industry or in life?

Alrik Bursell 52:41
Yeah, I think that like, you know, you basically you don't need permission. You know, like we were talking about before that you just need to go do do it with your team, create your network, create your family to go help you make your movies because like you're not going to be able to do it on your own. So find those those those collaborators and stick with them because they make all the difference.

Alex Ferrari 53:01
And three of your favorite films of all time.

Alrik Bursell 53:04
Good fellas. Alien Terminator.

Alex Ferrari 53:08
Solid, solid lists or solid solid list. I throw Alien and Aliens in there both because yeah, extra pieces.

Alrik Bursell 53:16
I was gonna say Alien and Aliens. I was like, That's too late. I gotta throw another one in there that I love to it's a terminator. First Terminator.

Alex Ferrari 53:24
Yeah, and Terminator two is also another masterpiece as well. But and where can people see the alternate and and also to find out what you're doing and the good work that you're doing.

Alrik Bursell 53:35
So if you go to my website, www.alrikbursell.com You can find links to the alternate and all the places and everything. It's, it's on Amazon, it's on Apple TV, iTunes, it's on Vudu. Pretty much any place that you can rent and buy a digital movie, you'll be able to find the alternate so go look for it and you know, buy it rent it and rate it, rate it wherever you can, you know, Rotten Tomatoes, you know, whatever IMDb letterbox or any of the places ratings would be great and be honest that you know and love good one. But you know, I want your honesty too.

Alex Ferrari 54:10
No honestly, just only good ones, please. I don't care about honestly.

Alrik Bursell 54:16
Oh, yeah. And I also have a podcast called Making Moves as hard. You can find us at making movies as hard.com we are only released one episode a week. I'm like Alex who can manage to release like 1000 episodes every week. But yeah, if you if you love these kinds of podcasts, you might like ours too.

Alex Ferrari 54:33
It's very I highly recommend their podcasts it is I've been I've been a guest on it a few I think a couple times if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, twice. I'm we're do we're due for another one soon. I think we're gonna might be doing one.

Alrik Bursell 54:46
We might be doing something very special. We can't announce it yet.

Alex Ferrari 54:48
I can't say anything. Maybe something's happening maybe. But, but listen, I mean, thank you so much for coming on the show and in talking shop with me and congrats. After this epic long, almost 10 years, almost like what eight years

Alrik Bursell 55:05
Almost nine years, nine now

Alex Ferrari 55:08
Almost nine years getting this me you finally you finally gave birth to this baby indeed yours. But Congratulations, brother and thank you for all the hard work you do and helping filmmakers out there as well my friend.

Alrik Bursell 55:22
Thanks, Alex. Thanks to you too. And yeah, I love your show and I love all the things you do and yeah, keep it going, man because if you're not around, I don't know what we would do.

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