Alex Ferrari 0:00
Today, guys, we have a special gift fuel as a treat for you guys. Scott McMahon from filmtrooper.com is a guest today I wanted to bring Scott on, because his focus is really helping filmmakers make a living doing meaning to make a living and sell their movies online. He wrote a book called How to make and sell your film online and survive the Hollywood implosion while doing it. He's referring to the quote that you heard at the beginning of the show from Steven Spielberg saying that mega budget films are going to eventually crash and completely crashed the entire film industry at one point or another that certain movies are going to get. So big budgets are going to be 400 $500 million. And they're just going to bomb and knock out studios. And it's going to take some pletely changed the paradigm of the entire industry, which very feasibly could do that. And that definitely can happen without question. But what will happen to us as independent filmmakers, when that happened, so Scott wrote an entire book, discussing it and showing you how he did it, and how he's doing it with his film, The Cube, which he made for 500 bucks, and is still selling online, and how you can do it as well. I really love what Scott's doing. And he's a good friend of mine. And we've known each other for a little while now. And he really you know, at the bottom of his heart just wants to help filmmakers out by teaching them how to survive and how to make a living doing what you love to do as filmmakers to become an Uber independent filmmaker as he likes to call it. So here's my interview with Scott McMahon from filmtrooper.com Hey Scott, thanks so much for coming on the indie film hustle podcast and sharing some information with the tribe.

Scott Mcmahon 2:33
Hey, that's just so so cool to be here. Thank you.

Thanks, Ben. So I wanted to ask you first and foremost, what is your perspective on the indie film business today? Because I know you have a very specific perspective

Yeah, you know I'm just real quick so I have this website as you know filmtrooper and was designed to help filmmakers become entrepreneurs or that was my quest. And a lot of it all stemmed from like there's something changing obviously in all the arts fields in all anybody making media and you know, several years ago I tried to produce a independent feature the traditional way you know, I had producers of all these cast attached brought to AFM all the stuff that you're supposed to do building the relationships to eventually make or sell a film. But when I was at this particular AFM I remember there's there was a filmmaker I forget his name I think it was March I forget his last name but he he essentially was saying that he used internet marketing strategies to sell his DVDs online and it made a you know a couple 100,000 or something like that you know very much like your story you know selling broken and at the time I was like that's amazing and but you can see like in that world everybody was looking at like bigger numbers. I mean a couple 100,000 we need to make millions you know like that's like that was that mindset right? I was like man wait a minute this is really interesting. So over the last you know, few years in and out of like you know, different work, you know, different full time jobs, whatever the interest never went away. of like, how does internet marketing work? How does people building online businesses work? And how could that be applied to the independent film world and during this time, we saw all these changes with the digital tool sets, I mean, the DSLR when that came out, when the Canon first the one of the first five D came out that was that just broke the mold. And then after that, like all these little, you know, portable digital audio recorders and a lighting gear, everything just got ridiculously accessible. But the caveat was, in my own case, study was out of frustration of always trying to write material for the market, meaning like the American Film market, the International Film market, and they have a very specific need, like all the distributors, they're like, Hey, this is how we buy or this is the type of films we buy, and they are they are majority of the time they're not even what like the independent, like films festival circuit, you know, celebrates, like when you go to the film market it's like it's like the schlocky, like action films or everything you're like, this is what's selling and buying, like yeah, this is what the critics are always people like in frustration about the film industry is like, why is the same schlock being you know, produced

Because somebody is buying it, someone's assuming it I get apparently,

Yeah, on an international base, like that. And that was the key because obviously like my case study was like, I had an American comedy and everybody in the international market was just looking at my stuff assessing and to be honest with you, American comedies don't sell very well, they're very difficult to sell overseas because they're so topical and cultural base that it's, you know, it's the comedy doesn't necessarily translate, which is why horror films do well, because it's a very carnal, emotional response that audiences you know, worldwide can understand, no matter what the language is, action is the same way. You know, it's a visual storytelling medium, that if you have a very strong genre, it sells you know, internationally very well, not to say that those films don't do well that the, you know, like, if you're gonna make a drama, that's why that you have to have a star for any international sort of interest because that particular star can carry you know, monetary weight. If you don't have any stars, there's, there's really no, it's very difficult for a distribution company make money off that. Anyhow, so I was looking all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, for me, personally, it's like, you and I are as filmmakers and people are listening here is the ability to take your gear, and just make something shoot something, make something and put it up online. And we're seeing that obviously, with the YouTube generation, people just making stuff and putting it online. But there's comes a point where every is like, Well, how do I sell it? You know, like, how do I make money off this product that I created? But that actually forced me to go deeper into like, okay, but it's just one product. Like how do you build an entire living from this? And so that's sort of why I started film trooper to explore all this stuff, you know, I'm not an expert on any of it is it's me standing out there going, I will be your crash test dummy. Like, you know, we're both fans of Pat Flynn. Oh, yeah. And I like his his approach to internet business, which was, I have an inner business and I am doing you know, fairly well here and there, I share everything that I'm learning I'm failing at, and he shares his trials and tribulations with his audience. And I thought that'd be kind of cool. Like, my, my focus is on making really kind of tiny films, like really, really micro budget films with the gear that you have, and then not even go into a distributor, just literally going online and selling it directly. And I'm trying to codify and curate all the best information of how that could possibly work out. So your question about where my perspective of the independent film world is, you know, we're seeing like an over glut of supply basic then much to my client, yet too much supply not enough demand. And, you know, I think Ted hope wrote an article or was able to identify somebody who talked about this, which is like, US filmmakers is not just we're competing with every film that's released this year, when we make our film, it's like we're competing with everything that was ever made in history,

Pretty much pretty much and that number is growing exponentially,

Right Right. So not to be afraid of those things not to feel daunted. Like it's a it's scary because if you follow in the old paradigms, which is we know that Hollywood is like the 1% there's only handfield handful of people they get to play creatively in that world. And then there's everything that's outside of those major studios the six slash seven major studios is indie Hollywood, which is the film market the International Film market and we just talked about like the genres the very genre specific content that they're looking for, but there's like 95% of us the rest of us that are just making stuff and having it available online and where do we go and what is the business model for us and so with that said, you know, we had this conversation on my podcast where we got off on about like George Lucas you know,

Of course the whole thing that he kind of set the set the bar as far as packaging other things along with your along with your movie.

Alex Ferrari 9:31
Yeah, and honestly that's how it's working online. So if we look at film is nothing more than like a digital product then you know, authors books are no longer and there's you can make a tangible paperback hardback book, but there's a explosion of the online ebook. So that's a digital product music is all digital now like hardly anybody's buying CDs. You know,

Scott Mcmahon 9:53
More people are buying vinyl, I think.

Yeah. Right. So there's always this outlier, or like Sub niche of each industry so you're gonna have people that want the hardback or paperback they want to be in a bookstore like with a lot of people are finding like it's just easier to read it on their Kindle or you know or Kindle app or whatever

Just just on a side note in LA they have a store called the last bookstore hmm that's the name of it it's downtown LA I was drive by it and it's in like a big neon sign like the last book so I'm like that is a brilliant brilliant name for a bookstore.

Seriously like look there's a whole Colin Hanks did like a documentary on the Dima the fall of the tower route.

Yeah, I've been wanting to watch I saw the trailer for that was that good?

It looks fantastic. Yeah, but what I can gather from that story knowing we all know that story those who live long enough young people like what are you talking about? What's Tower Records? Anyway.

What is this blockbuster thing you're talking about? Video Why?

Alex Ferrari 10:53
You guys are old. But there's like you said go to these record stores or like there's when I grew up in San Diego, down in Encinitas, and Carlsbad was lose records was famous like you just go and you spend hours there and it was just there was a fun like hunt like discovering like, Oh my god, this is like a total use been like 299 the CD or record. So there's a joy joyful like sort exploration of that

There's, there's there's a there's this generation and the jet, this generation that's coming up the millennials and anything for coming forward is they will never understand what it's like to walk into a video store. Oh, yeah. And that that wonderful. I mean, don't get me wrong look like the on demand stuff so much better. But there's that magic of walking into a video store, grabbing that video cassette hunting for this, like seeing this cool cover that's promising you all of these things that never ever come true. But finding some gems sometimes of movies that really affect you that you would never find or have access to in today's Netflix, Amazon Prime he kind of world. And that magic is, I think is something that's sad that they'll never be able to experience.

Scott Mcmahon 12:15
It's interesting because those stores a bookstore that was more independent, you would maybe read something but there's somebody working there. People then start conversations, have you read this book or heard about this, you know, then there's this social aspect of recommendation. Same thing with record stores? Can I guide you be like, listen to this track? Or did you hear this you know, but you might like this as new bandages came out from like Ireland, or whatever it might be.

Alex Ferrari 12:40
That's the rating system now on Alexa and Amazon.

Scott Mcmahon 12:45
Even the movies, I mean, you go into the I remember, I think we all worked at a video store. One time I worked in, like independent video store that wasn't blockbuster and you just patrons to come in and they want your opinion. Some you know,

And we all hated blockbuster, by the way. But yes, we worked in the indie stores hated blockbuster. That's why I love clerk so much. Because they made reference to it. They're just like the guy you're like, oh, he walks into and there's just movies everywhere and copies of everything. And okay, we're getting off on a tangent

that no, but this is all good because we understand where this world came from, which is our perspective is like, that's what we thought the industry was, you know, it's tangible goods, it's a DVD. It's a CD, you know, it's a hardback book, like, you know, they're tangible. And all sudden, things become digital, like, everything's becomes digital, right? So looking at what's going on with the book publishing industry, the music publishing industry, and seeing that, you know, you can read anywhere online, they're like, that's nobody's really making money selling books. nobody's really making money selling music. They're always outlier. So everybody's going like, Well, what about Beyonce? outlier? It's an outlier.

Alex Ferrari 13:51
Taylor Swift. Exactly. But you know, where they make the most of their money is not off of sales it off of touring off of mirch off of endorsement deals, that's where they make their money, the music is just basically advertising.

Scott Mcmahon 14:03
Thank you. And that in the books the same way, people are just developing business structures, a business framework around it, where they make they make their money and their living on the back end. And the biggest case study to this. It's not just like people used to say, like music, like, oh, they're there to do the tour, and they're making more money selling t shirts. But reality is like, if you want the best example is Dr. Dre. Beats by Dre. Yeah, that is that's what's happened here. If you look at that parameter, it's like his music develops a core following. And then they build a product that's totally in alignment with his style, you know, Beats by Dre and they're selling 400 or $500 price items. Now they're no longer selling a 16 nine or 1099 CD,

Alex Ferrari 14:52
and because he has them on everybody wants to wear them. It's the it's the it's the Nike Air Jordan phenomenon, but But instead, Michael Jordan owns Nike In this scenario, because that's basically Beats by Dre was owned by Dre and Jimmy, Jimmy, Avon. Avon.

Scott Mcmahon 15:11
Yeah. Forgot the guy who kind of came I think whatever the real creator that came to Dr. Dre and say, let's do this together. Yeah. And he's like the guy needed Dr. drays. Like St.

Jimmy Avandia. Well, Jimmy has a lot of street cred himself, but not as much as Dre. But yeah, and then he sold it for how many billions?

Alex Ferrari 15:27
Exactly. So that that is the model of all digital goods. So when we look at filmmaking, we were talking about George Lucas that he just recently a couple months ago, he said that all the money is in the action figures. So it's true. Yeah. And so what he's what he's getting at, there's a great book by Schuler and more called the business like, he's like one of the most renowned entertainment lawyers in Hollywood, and it's a really sort of boring book about taxes if you really want to get into okay, but it's like it's like nuts and bolts like there's no frill about the film business it's just it's taking from the perspective of a lawyer, an entertainment lawyer and dealing with taxes and things like that, but his in there he says that the entire industry revolves around the exploitation of licenses. So even from his perspective is like nobody's making films. We're not making film or TV content, we're not making that what we're doing is the stuff we make, it has to turn into into intellectual property a, a property a license that we can exploit over and over and over. So when you think about George Lucas's story, you know Yes, he retained the rights all the ancillary merchandise right so the first Star Wars films 20 Century Fox was just stupid enough to let him have it because they thought we were in the film business we retain the licensing rights to the film

so look at the first film only the first one

because once Lucas built this entire Empire and he was able to buy back the rights you know the best case scenario is like if you own the Star Wars license what would you do with it you do exactly what he did which was sell to Disney for like 40 something billion

dollar was 4.5 billion I think it was a good deal. I think it was a straight one it was a it was a robbery on on Disney's part they stole it because I think they're gonna make so much money

well they said here's the kitchen board so Disney what happens when they got hold that license? What do they do we're watching it unfold in every capacity they are exploiting that license to the nth degree

oh my god like you can't even walk anywhere now without seeing something based on the new Star Wars movie coming out. Yeah, and also just taking old Star Wars stuff and rehab like there was a lot of I mean George really did a lot of merchandising let's just see you know i mean a lot even when you when you're getting down to the the tat on sleeping bag the tauntaun sleeping bag ad what was it the

Scott Mcmahon 17:57
so gross and funny

though and what was it the the oh god this there's so many I mean there's like you know the Han Solo ice cube trays and I mean it's just goes on and on and on. So but now I'm like seeing things that are just you could I can just see things that Lucas might have not let go just these like oh yeah, so now it's anything and everything you've ever wanted in Star Wars is now available. Like anything ever ever it's like whatever you mind can think of there is a product the Star Wars product associated with it. So it's it's fascinating but you're right we're watching it see unfold right now and then obviously everyone's saying that the new movie is going to make it probably is going to be one of the biggest movies of all time. Just with all the anticipation. I haven't seen anticipation this this large for movie i can't i what was the last movie that had this kind of anticipation? Phantom Menace? Yeah, I would say Phantom Menace. I guess you're right. Phantom Menace was a lot of anticipation for this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was. I always remember I always remember the first Batman or not the first Batman but the Batman from 1989. Yep, that was just insane amount of anticipation. That's true. It was every day to remember like there was Batman single signals everywhere like you could not walk anywhere. See Batman?

Alex Ferrari 19:14
I was a roadie for my friend ska reggae band at 17 that that summer

that's a whole other story.

Scott Mcmahon 19:20
That's a whole nother story. But I remember traveling across the country and everywhere we go because we had like the worst places. I was like, you know your Taco Bell so does man Batman, Batman

Alex Ferrari 19:31
everywhere ever. I mean t shirts everywhere. It was just and my mother My mother was so funny man. She would walk by she saw you know, because they would just use the signal the bad signal. And she never saw the bat signal. She saw a mouth with teeth. And she's like, why is there this mouth with teeth everywhere? That's um, that's that's Batman. Who? I'm like, you know, she I know Batman isn't like but she's like, Oh, it's a bat. For a week so numbers like what's this thing with the mouth in the teeth

Scott Mcmahon 20:03
everywhere? She had the war shock test like yeah,

it was hilarious It was hilarious. So let me ask you Scott What do you talk a lot about the Hollywood implosion Can you explain a little bit about that

you know that really comes from obviously Spielberg two years ago and he and Lucas were they were just explaining that there's a there could be an implosion if another too many mega budget movies go crashing to the ground because if they're you're putting all your eggs in one basket in terms of the types of films that are released to the theaters right we're talking about mega budget films like Peter Pan that just just died Peter Pan Fantastic Four you'll always have these big flops but the problem is is that if the studio systems are only producing these mega budget movies you're creating a you know like again all your eggs in one basket if you don't like before a couple years ago there was diversified you would have they would have independent studios a subsidiary that would you know make thoughtful dramas or provocative or you know, comedies everything they had to like sort of diversify it. So when Spielberg was mentioning that there could be an implosion or there will be an implosion and then just recently though he was clarifying that you know, it's you know, the clarified his statement. You say no, no, no, I didn't say like Hollywood would implode. He said in a lot of things he was he was trying to allude to like perhaps the the comic book genre the superhero genre could go the wayside of the Western you know eventually over time well like

you know, like the mark what he just said that the superhero movies are going to turn into westerns eventually let that go away with Yeah, maybe but like, I think what's his name? Kevin. fig freak freak I can't say his last name Yeah, who runs Marvel is like Well yeah, no, westerns will run for about 40 or 50 years so we're about 1520 years in yeah we still got a good 30 years we're good

Alex Ferrari 21:58
yeah so it's fine it's it's not like the doomsday but what I looked at it from it when the Hollywood implosion which is simply that there could be because we see some things where we're already seeing that this again there's only six major studios there's Sony Warner Brothers 20 Century Fox Paramount Disney say that I say Disney and like a prior missing one

live like lions gates maybe universe yeah

that's kind of like that but you know it's interesting they a couple years ago they reduced their slate of films meaning that yeah studio has a number of films are going to produce a year and that got cut down to a couple years ago to like something like ridiculous like 12 to 18 for each studio that's ridiculously that's talked about a stop gap and stop gate you know like some

of them are like much like how many movies is paramount putting out like what

Scott Mcmahon 22:51
is that six so if you're putting all your eggs in basket on a mega budget type movies you know your anything that's to create a franchise because they all know it there's a reason why you have transformer movies is because you know Paramount got that license. Like we got to sell toys. So let's make some movies. You know, make some movie

Alex Ferrari 23:10
actually Hasbro Hasbro said Hasbro Hasbro Scott sell some toys so they're like yeah and Paramount's like okay well we'll help market your toys and I've seen the behind the scenes like they like they have complete Hasbro has complete creative control off of the of what they look like how they work and like I think Michael Bay had to go back and re render and re design stuff because it has was like No we can't get the toy to transform like that. Yeah it's stuff like this like what this is not movies anymore like this is that we're just they're just selling product.

Why right? Because like the old moguls were they were businessmen, but they were movie makers. They were movie producers Sure. Whereas they have suits they're looking at like Alright, we have this license how we are going to Are we going to explode it and that's sort of sort of the mo right now but so there could be implosion if you have too much. And the idea would behind Lucas and Spielberg saying that the theater experience could eventually go to this world of a theater or opera we're spending 50 bucks to so specialists not

not that far away from 50 bucks right now

it's not especially with the 3d enhancement. I mean, I spent like 25 bucks for one ticket is like see I think Interstellar and IMAX 3d or something. Yeah, right. Right. But But the thing is, is that's what they were alluding to and then you look at what's happened is like Netflix, you know signed a deal with Brad Pitt to make his entire film war machine for $30 million. And just recently they just released their beasts East movie in theaters, but the theater owners hate Netflix so much that they're boycotting anything that they're doing. And so you're in not only that, but they're boycotting Paramount's paranormal blast Paranormal Activity coming out, because they because Paranormal Activity last movie Paramount says To release on a video on demand, like, I don't know, like 30 days out,

Scott Mcmahon 25:03
it's not actually 17 days. Okay, so it's even shorter. Yeah, cuz it basically so with movies like paranormal I just read a whole article about it with paranormal activity like they make, I think it's 60 to 70% of their total revenue in the first weekend. Yep. Then second weekend, make another 20%. And then the rest is just windows off. So they're like, okay, yeah, 17 days after we're out. Yeah, and then we'll just put in a while, there's still some sort of hype around it, we'll throw it out on VOD, which is a good business model for Paramount, but the theaters owners are just getting like, you know, pissed about it, but they can't find it. And this is something and I don't mean to get off topic here. But this is, this is this is the one thing I can't stand and there's one thing I've been I've been preaching this forever. movie theaters and movie theater owners have a combative relationship with their customer base. It's a combative relationship to walk in, like I live in LA. So you know, I lived in Miami for a long time in New York. So I and I've seen different kind of movie theater experiences but in LA, I walk into an AMC I bought one of my little coupons over at AMC, AMC. Costco Costco sells those like little packages, like you know, like the gold ticket, right? Which meant that you can go in on first week or second week and just put the ticket down and you've saved like, you know, seven bucks, I'm like that. So you buy a bunch of them. If you go past four o'clock now there's a $2 fee per ticket. It's convenience fee or some crap like that I almost ripped the poor little 16 year olds head off. I'm like, Are you kidding me? And not only that, but then the abusive pricing of I'm getting on my soapbox here about movie theaters but but the abusive pricing on popcorn like they don't and water and soda like we don't know, it's like airports like they don't know what it really costs in the real world. You know, that plus the experience is never that great anymore with the people talking in the cell phones and the sticky floor. So it's like it there's so combative with it and they think that they hold the key to the kingdom but they're, they're so combative as opposed to like a theater chain like Alamo Drafthouse who charges for premium experience or arclight here I'm not sure if there's an Arc Light up in Oregon or not but the Arc Light here is there's a there's a premium pet you pay a premium for that experience and like you were saying that whole opera esque vibe but then you're becoming much more specialized and I think movie theaters have just they've they're so behind the eight ball and they and they're so behind the times and the only thing that I don't know how much longer they're going to have in the way that we see them I think what Spielberg says is very true I think it's going to be more IMAX see more things that you can't get at home like you can't get an IMAX experience at home right? If you have enough money you can't get a theatrical experience at home you know like at a certain point you can make a home theater sound experience better than you could in a movie theater in to a certain extent but I you know at a certain point I think it's gonna be much more specialized to the point where you know how much more can they expect people to pay like at a certain point like am I gonna pay $30 to go see a rom com Yeah, like exactly like what why am I what why why

like you know yeah audiences already have the are determining like yeah, I'll go see that in the opening weekend. Like because they know what they're getting into like you said sticky floors loud people just like but I want to see it opening weekend but then there's enough people says Oh, that's a rental I'll wait for that on demand you know it's like oh yeah there's there's already this mental shift that's happened and so that that's the the illusion to the implosion like so if things are changing so dramatically even for the big studios and you know, they are no longer like it's in the music industry is no longer selling CDs we seen what happened to the music industry like their their commodity their their what they sell reduced to like 99 cents you know,

thank you Steve Jobs Yeah.

But even still like even movies the same when I go to 711 I see like the DVDs have been that's like 99 cents Yeah, but you know online there's video on demand like special like 90 people or they're getting we're getting conditioned like I am only renting that movie if it's like 399 or 99 cents or like you know there's not there's nobody's going in there goes on I totally buy that special edition package for like 100 bucks.

Well, it was like, like when I split and spent money like I spent 25 bucks to go and watch a movie in the theater and then afterwards it sucked, which is that just that that just pisses me off like really badly. So let's say the movie sucked and I'm thinking you know what I could have bought and that is my mindset. I could have bought the blu ray for 25 bucks, because I'm still old. But then the buy point like I could have just bought it on iTunes and had it you know, in 10 ATP forever well, as long as iTunes is, you know, or bought it on blu ray and had it at home for the same price, but because I wanted to go The opening weekend or wanted to go see it in the theater I think the theater like I don't go to the theater unless it's something you know that's a theatrical exhibit like Star Wars obviously you know who's yeah I mean we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show

we're gonna call this an event and it's a you know, and that's what some of the experts in our space are talking about is like the independence are going to have to create this event you know when you're doing a theatrical it has to be more than just

it's but it's so difficult to do that financially too you can't you can't go after you know when a movie is cost 150 million bucks and they're spending 150 to 200 and market it there's no way the the indie filmmaker is going to be able to compete at that level but but they can compete on what they can't compete on is online and then we're going to get into what's your questions I'm going to ask you in a little bit in regards to audience and all that stuff but you made a movie called The Cube I must I must hear the story of the cube How did you make it

okay so the deal was like we were mentioning you know, I go I try to make a independent comedy the traditional way and in some things that happen that in this particular film The quick of it is you know, a story I'm sure a lot of your audiences could relate to because I'm sure they've heard other stories like this. So I had this particular film as a comedy and I created this poster and if you can remember the like the universal symbol for man and woman when you go to the bathroom, you know it's like the little circle head so this poster had four men and below so that was a title set for dudes with a plus sign with a girl with a little flame above her head that says one hot girl with another plus sign with like a swirly symbol I created said time portal equals do over if you could relive one day in high school, what would you do

Alex Ferrari 32:00
that all sounds very familiar. Yes, yes.

Scott Mcmahon 32:02
So I had, I had you know, I had these producers that brought it to MGM and MGM at the time at a time travel comedy in the works but it was described as one guy going back in time to fix three days of his life and it was entitled How soon is now based off the Smith song? Some you know, the then the the economy had imploded that time and oh 807 it was a lot of like, uncertainty nobody knew where money was coming from, you know, right. So but in that then I got the Rude Awakening at the American Film market that American comedies don't sell at that particular time they're telling me the number one comedy star in the world was Rowan Atkinson because of Mr. Bean and Johnny English because he doesn't say anything he's all physical comedy so that translates very well you know across all countries

Alex Ferrari 32:52
that's how I didn't know he was the biggest Yeah, that makes sense makes perfect sense

Scott Mcmahon 32:56
yeah cuz Will Ferrell Steve Carell, those guys their comedy was so topical and culturally reference is they they're not as big as stars internationally as somebody like Rowan Atkinson is and so that was eye opening but I was able to sort of build some relationships with some film buyers to see to get a better idea of like okay well this is what the markets really buying. So let me go creatively and start to write things for the market you know, instead of like creating something on my head and trying to push it onto the market in that process a couple years later, three years later, MGM comes out with a movie called Hot Tub Time Machine and the and the kicker is the poster because it shows like this little red bull plus vodka plus a squirrel equals this Hot Tub Time Machine it had like the four guys and every all my friends were just calling what I go you know no copyright there was no copyright infringement because the stories are completely different. All it has to be is like somebody saw the package come to MGM table chef course and you look at it and somewhere down the line, MGM decided to take their time travel comedy with one guy turn it into four guys and then subconsciously the poster is so eerily similar so it was like

man, I tell you I've heard I've heard a lot of stories like that Yeah, and there is and there's things like I've heard people walk in and pitch well it happened to me when I was doing commercial work you know when I do commercial work a lot of times these agencies will have directors you know pitch out you know ideas for how they want to do the movie do the shoot the commercial and so many times you know ideas that you you spit out at those pitch meetings end up being in the final commercial with someone else directed and I'm like how has nice and it's in that same thing happens in Hollywood all the time you go and you pitch your movies like you know I've got this alien who comes down for friends a boy and you know the government's after him and boom, all right. I'm not saying the Spielberg stole that obviously. Yeah, it's called that movie. called Mac in me, which was a complete ripoff of et. Right? By the way, anyone in the audience who wants to have a really good time on a Friday night Mac find the movie makin me it is one of the most absurd things ever. there's a there's a dance sequence in it isn't there Scott. There was a, there was a dance sequence in a McDonald's or Burger King with this really bad alien. And but this was like, there was there was a tie in. Mm hmm. This was like, this was during my video store days. So it was like there was sponsorships and tie ins. And it was this horrible this complete rip off of it, Matt. It was like five years after UT or something like that. It was called Mac in me and you've got to you've got to see that anyway, sorry.

Alex Ferrari 35:46
Here's a quick sort of Mac me so all right. Every time that he's on a guest, Ryan show he leaves. He's on it, isn't he? No, no, what he does is like because Conan O'Brien will ask Paul read like so you're in this movie. Let's take a look at the clip. So that's always shows a clip from makin me like for all these years he's ever been on Conan O'Brien

that's brilliant. I didn't know that. Was Paul running back

in me. He just Hayes's like Conan O'Brien about it.

Because it was Conan and he was quoted

Scott Mcmahon 36:21
to say this how ridiculous this movie is

that I'm just gonna bring it up every single time I'm on your show. It's so brilliant. It's it's one of those wonderful wonderful films that would never ever in a million years be made today. Who knows though

like you were talking about the we had a conversation about the guy who made like the chicken killer

that'd be thanks killing thanks good Thank you. Thanks killing a turkey I will actually put that in the show notes thanks killing to support my boys. Yes. This story of thanks killing is a story of one man's one turkeys obsession with killing people and they basically they basically just, it's just so people know what the story is real quick. We're going off topic on topic but off topic is they made a puppet a really bad one. Which is basically a turkey head and the turkey. The tagline for the movie is gobble gobble Mother effer. And ad which is brilliant. And they knew what they were doing. They I mean, this was not like they were not at would they weren't think they were making an Oscar nominated thing here. They knew exactly what they were doing. And they made this like hand out of you know, this, this puppet and the puppet goes around killing hot, you know, hot chicks in a college. And their big selling point was like within the first second of the movie, there is boobs. So what they did is they hired a porn star. And they literally started. The first shot is on her nipple. And they just pull back. And I'm like, wow, like they went all in. They went all into the camp. And just so you know, they made I think well over $150,000 on VOD, like they got into I think either Warner Brothers his arm or one of those guys arms. Got it on on like Comcast and those stuff and people were eating it up. So I was actually talking to them. I was working on another film with them an actual film, like a real film. And they were like, yeah, you know, we don't know what to do next. I'm like, Well, why don't you do another Thanksgiving? No, we don't want to be the turkey dude's and I'm like, Dude, are you insane? Like you've made money make another three of these things it cost you like two grand a make go make some money. So what happens like a year later I get an email. Oh they crowdfunded by the way they got over $150,000 to bake because they have a huge following like they had album sales they had a lot of merchandise they sold t shirts hats, buttons stickers everywhere like they were selling like crazy and I supported their Kickstarter campaign and they sent me a copy of the movie autographed add stickers and buttons and like clients would walk into my my suite that like what what was this thanks killing so the third part is excuse me they made thanks killing three in search of things killing too so they they talk about Thanksgiving too but they never made thanksgiving to us it's all about things killing three and of course with $150,000 budget they went all out you know like they made this thing look insane for you know, considering they made the first one for like I think three grand so that's just a great success story and they made money with it. I don't know if there's any more thanks killings coming but they created this wonderful little film and created an audience around it which I which is a great segue into Um, what what it takes to actually what does it take to be sustainable artists today as a filmmaker, like what it is,

like you said, it's an audience and everybody, like all the experts, everything you talk about, yeah, everybody's talking about you got to build an audience build it on. So what does that actually mean? And

nobody, no, no one's telling you how to do it. Yeah, it's

so you, you know, I think it's funny, but you look over to the YouTube stars, the superstars, they build this large subscriber base, so they have a fan base, but you're utilizing real like Internet metrics and stuff like that. The standards like a one to 3% conversion rate, meaning that even though somebody might have 1000 subscribers or something like that they're only really have one to 3% of them will actually maybe buy something and that person or or be a real fan. You know, obviously Twitter is that kind of way. It's like the end game. You might have a lot of followers, but it's very difficult. Yes, the engagement is small, because the way that the medium works, it's so quick to see so many things in the feed. And to to to stand out and have a stick.

Alex Ferrari 41:05
Yeah, I've noticed I've noticed that too, with my Twitter feed, like I have. I've almost over 6000 followers at this point. And I noticed what what clicks and what doesn't click and what gets retweeted. What doesn't get retweeted. It's Yeah, it's an ad of so many people. The engagement is minuscule comparatively.

Scott Mcmahon 41:21
Yeah. So it's fine. As long as it's cool. Because once we know that sort of like the rule, and it kind of just works that way, then you understand why businesses are always trying to get more leads are getting more impressions, because the more impressions they have, they kind of account for the standard conversion rate. Others tried to like, Okay, how do I maximize my conversion rate in terms of the small audience, I have to make them loyal so that so anybody, anybody, if you're an independent artists, musician, author, and now filmmaker, because here's the big thing, we're getting back to the cube, the ability to make a film, like I said, a thanks, killing for like $2,000, the film that I made the cube for. I was watching all the stuff happen over the years of watching the industry change, and then at the same time, analyzing numbers, and getting a chance to get privy to some sort of real listing video on demand numbers. If you don't have a star, if you don't have a discernible genre, when you're selling your film on iTunes. Most filmmakers are only earning about 1000 to $5,000. So that's probably that statement alone blows a lot of filmmakers mind so like not what and like and that

Alex Ferrari 42:31
and those are the successful ones. Yeah. Well, it's

funny because there's when you look even film that has a star on it. The VOD numbers sometimes are as small as like 50,000 to maybe 100,000. But you know, the film costs of way more than that,

you know, see if he's talking about 50 or $100,000. In VOD, this is a major studio release. This is like a 20 million to 50 million if not higher budget movie,

right? Yeah. And so you know, even in that case, so, on film tuber, I do offer this free video on demand and digital download report that goes into the analysis of, of figuring out what certain movies make or what you can project with, they're probably making on both video demand and digital downloads. It's probably important to make a kind of separate the two because most people think like VOD is like one thing. Majority of the numbers that we see reported in the press have like a certain film made this much on VOD majority that money is coming from the cable spectrum. So within cable there's like cable video, Noman transactional, to transmit transactional video on demand, movies on demand, then there's like free on demand, there's, there's gashes cable subscription video on demand. So they have all these subsections. But in order to get into the space of cable video on demand, you still sort of need a formal relationship with a distributor or studio. And that leaves like if you're not in that world, then you're stuck to what they call ESP electronic sell through, which is a digital downloads, which is straight up transactions, meaning that somebody sees your film, they buy it, or rent it, you know, and the reason why films are making like 1000 to $5,000, is that, you know, their their movie, the trailer only gets, you know, maybe 10,000 views. So that's 10,000 marketing impressions. So one to 3% of that is turns into a transaction. But if your transaction numbers around an average of $4 price point, that's an average of like a rental an average of a purchase. We're basically selling Starbucks coffee we're saying $4 coffees, but we as independent filmmakers cannot compete on the volume level of Starbucks coffee, we can't compete on the volume, quantity of like the Hollywood Studios. And so when the independents try to fit their film into the same mold, as in the studio systems that are working on this high volume, On your transactions, we always will always fail, we'll never quite get there. And so the difference is, and what I've been exploring on film trooper is to not play the volume game, but play the value game. So meaning that you're going to get less amount of transactions, you're going to account for only getting a couple 100 transactions, maybe a couple 1000 transactions. But if you can turn that price point from that $4 price point to $100, a $500 product, like Beats by Dre, then you're making money.

Okay, so with that said, with that said, Not everyone's going to be able to make Beats by Dre. So how do you change that for dollar into a 50 or $100 package?

Scott Mcmahon 45:43
Yeah, so that's what we were exploring a lot on film trooper. And this harkens back to what we were talking about earlier, if we're not in the film business, we have to like stop and go, we're not in the film business, yes, this show business. But what really is the business, the real business is licensed exploitation. And if we utilize our films, like the studio systems do as an advertisement, meaning that we are, you can almost give it away instead of you might make some money selling for $1 $10 product. But essentially, your mindset has to change and say my film has to promote something of a higher value of the $50 $100 value. And knowing that you're going to get small number of transactions. So I wrote this book, give me one second, I'm going to cough

Alex Ferrari 46:31
I've been clearing my throat the entire time, so don't worry about it.

So I'll do the best we were talking about the cube. So I was talking about being at AFM and I was trying to write product movies for this market. But this is something we can I think all of us can relate to creatively gets her point we get frustrated, where you just want to make something because that doesn't make any sense. But you just want to make it for yourself. And I already knew going into making this bigger film The cube that I cannot spend more than $5,000 or that's why that was my thinking. I was just I was like I'm going to write something and create something that I could just shoot on the weekends around my full time job that takes place in my house. And the premise of the cube is very simple. It's a mysterious red cube arrives at the doorstep of a married couple that it's very benign they open it up nothing happens and they throw it away and then another one comes back and another one comes back and each one comes back a supernatural event has happens and it kind of spins the couple's life out of control until they figure it out. So that's it's really simple and then but I wasn't sure if I The thing about it is not only wasn't made for $500 so feature film 90 minutes long, but I didn't really have a crew I would have I would hope not yeah I didn't have it It wasn't planned that way i think i thought it maybe you have a really tiny crew like a you know a dp I had a dp originally but then this is the funny thing is because I was acting in it the original scene that we shot my acting was so god awful that I had to like scrap it and go back and then at that time I didn't really have anybody to to work on it because

this is why actors should interact yeah

so I did everything wrong I knew going into it I didn't have a discernible genre it wasn't a strong like this is a straight up thriller This is straight up action or anything like that it

so it would sound like a supernatural thriller is what it sounds like that's

Scott Mcmahon 48:28
what it's this a supernatural suspense movie that's all I said it was and but not until afterwards I didn't know what it was until I created it but the fun thing was I wasn't sure if I could do it where I could pull off making a full length feature and and by changing things up or just literally putting the camera on the tripod that's a T three IKEA Canon Rebel t three I flipped over the LCD screen so I can see you know where things were I did approximate you know focus on like a like a mic stand I put in place and I lit the space as opposed to lighting each shot I just made sure that the space was lit and that way I can move faster by you know moving the camera around in static positions so it became the the process is very simple which is like I'll start with wide medium close up over shoulder type stuff covered and then I covered that's basic coverage and then I just made sure that I always had a foreground shot of the cube and then the actors myself and the actress in the background blurred out as my you know cheat in the editing to cut away from you know any bad acting or bad that would be

that would be your turtle or your Pitbull from El Mariachi,

right or like the dub summons or since How do you say?

dub dub dub like dos him? It's

a death sentence. So he's in his locker? Yeah, his book really deal he talks about it's the cat in the window sill

right? Or the clock to in his course. He's like just cut away to the clock.

Yeah, exactly. You know I kept it really simple but the thing is because I'm up here in Portland, Oregon, I was fairly new. So I didn't know the community that well. So I didn't have a a community or team to put in place to make, you know, make a proper crew. But you can just literally set your camera up is pointing outside and your production value just skyrockets, we have everywhere you look at these gigantic trees, there's rivers, and for the most part, we have this natural site or silk that I probably say it's like a nice, there's no harsh shadows, because it's always gray.

Right? You have you have cloud cover all the times, really soft light, it's not

at, they made it easy. So I finished this film, and then I know what to do with it. And the thing was, is like, I was like, I don't know, it's not really like a festival film. I was like totally just downplaying. I was just excited. I made the thing. I was like, Sure, of course, right around the same time I finish, like Vimeo on demand happens like all these, like VHS on the horizon dystrophy, all these direct digital distribution platforms are available, where you can upload it and put it behind a paywall and start selling it to the online world. So I was like, okay, cool, I'll do that. But then the bigger question arises, how do you get people to come know that you have a film. And that is why I started film trooper as a platform to explore these questions deeper, too, because I was looking at like, I want to make more of these little films. I want to be able to sell them online, but I do want to make a living. And so that led me to explore these deeper questions of okay film, I realized, after all this study, and analysis and curation and codifying that, it really is an advertisement, just as books are an advertisement for a back end sell just as music is an advertisement for something that the band sells later on. Yes, the best case scenario is Beats by Dre. So the independence it's like if we use our film as an advertisement, what am I really selling? So my selling point, my marketing message, originally for this film was this is a $500 feature film with no crew. That was it. Because my thought pattern was if you went to a film festival at a q&a, the first thing somebody is going to say is Hey, would you shoot it on? What was your budget? Right? Of course, like, nobody cares about what your film is about. They want to know the making of especially because that's the audience at a film festival. Pretty much. Yeah, they're

all filmmakers are generally. Yeah, yeah. So

you just cut to the chase and and what I discovered is like marketing to other filmmakers is is difficult. It's like, but you did very well,

because that's my bread and butter. Yeah, you did very well, because

you you right place right time, you you built a amazing product that says that delivered the goods, you delivered the value to a subset audience, then you knew like this is other filmmakers learn from this stuff. And so mine was just more of it out of curiosity, I knew that was the selling point. But um, so from that experience, I was like, Okay, I knew I did everything wrong. But how do I do make it right? How do I make the next one, right? Or how do I make sure that we knew there's a new trajectory for independent filmmakers, really the Uber independent filmmaker, and if you're if you're definitely not going down the path of Hollywood, you're definitely not going down the path of getting your film bought by a distribution company, if you really want to be make your film and have self distribution, what are the New Business Economics with a business system around that, that can give you an opportunity to succeed? And so with my platform, film trooper having a podcast allows me to bring guests on, it allows me to explore these questions deeper. And now and again, sort of codify it. So in this book, it's kind of funny, I wrote a book and in selling on Amazon, and so on, and it was done because that one of my sessions online on my podcast, I was asking, like, well, if a author writes a book and becomes a digital product, and they sell it on Amazon, what are the you know, what are the strategies are they using that are making it successful for them to sell online?

Alex Ferrari 54:02
Yeah, cuz I kind of believe like, selling a book is so much harder than selling a movie online. You think it's my guess but because you don't have anything visual, you don't have anything to kind of give them like, you don't have a trailer, you got a cover for a book, but it's a book. So it doesn't have the same sexiness that a movie would, if done right now I've seen filmmakers. I mean, I've seen book writers do that making it real sexy and make a trailer for it and because, you know, to try to do but I have to imagine selling, you know, a narrative. Or even worse than that, well, I guess it'd be easy to do a nonfiction book than it is to do a fiction book, I think because you could just hit that core audience of what you're trying to sell. right it's it's you're solving you're solving a problem as opposed to trying to entertain

Scott Mcmahon 54:48
right so in the book, so that's a good point. Because so so I made this movie, it doesn't solve a problem. It's more of a fascination point of like, what does a 500 film with no crew look like? And you don't need that. pretty much it. So but from this experiment, it's like, you know, obviously I hedged my bets because I knew I didn't want to spend a lot of money because I knew the back end wasn't going to be massive, super profitable. Sure, but it made my money back plus more. Okay, so and that is that is funny is that's sort of like what filmmakers think they're like, I just need to make enough money for in this film to make the next film. Like that's the mentality. But that's

but you can't sustain a life like that that will hold you for a few years. But if you're lucky,

Alex Ferrari 55:28
yeah, I think something's important that we're talking about Spielberg earlier. Can you let's just stop and say, What is it? Why do all most filmmakers that we think are successful? Why aren't they taking the profits from the what they made on that their the film prior to find their next film?

Scott Mcmahon 55:44
None of them do. That's the thing I always the only time Spielberg did do that with Schindler's List, he outputted the cash himself because the studio wouldn't do a black and white movie about the Holocaust. And you know, universals. Like we're never gonna make any money with that. This is just depressing. Yeah. And then, of course, there's this, you know, made tons. But that was the first time he'd done and there's a handful of directors you hear do that, but they don't generally, generally, they don't put their money where their mouth is, you know, they generally do now though, I've heard stories of like, you know, Gizmodo, Toro giving up all his money for Pan's Labyrinth, to continue his vision. Same thing with James Cameron, and Titanic. And other filmmakers, but to actually finance their next movie. I haven't heard a lot of that. George George, George Lucas, of course, because he is the biggest independent filmmaker of all time.

Exactly. And then he had a dip. But the funny thing is, is that, you know, he's probably following the motto of Walt Disney. And Walt Disney said that we don't make movies to make money, we make money to make movies. Yeah. And so Lucas had other infrastructure in place to generate the money, the exploitation of his property, to be able to finance all his movies. So the thing is, is that this concept of us independent filmmakers, we have to stop thinking like the film that we make we just hoping to make enough money where I can make the next film, and that and that has to stop, because even the big guys don't do it. And so like, but the thing is, I made a little film. And I was able to make a $500 feature film, but I don't want to leave that playground yet. Because I'm thinking myself, you know, I think I could tell a better story within these confines. Because my feeling is like, we saw what happened in the app world, when the iPhone app world hit. And all of a sudden, these independent program programmers would just like make something ridiculous, like the fart app, they sell for 99 cents and sell like 2 million units, you know, and you're good. Yeah. So one day, what's going to happen is somebody some kid is going to make a film a feature film or something for like 100 bucks, and they're gonna make a million dollars in selling directly to an audience online. And you know, whatever happens, and you know how it is the intercedes in shifts, like there, they'll turn and go, Oh, that's what I got to do. Just because we can harken back to a few milestones independent film history. verbis like, Oh, that's what I got to do. I'll follow that model, you know?

Yeah, well, look what happened in the 70s. With EZ rider the studio's had no idea what the hell they were doing Easy Rider shows up, independent film was was made for I think, at the time was like $200,000, or $250,000. shot on film, and then it turns into this huge hit, and the studios are like, what? Yeah, and that's what opened the door to Spielberg Scorsese at the Palma Coppola, they just kind of gave the keys to the to the, to the film school geeks, they're like, Oh, they must know what they're doing. Give it to them. And that's kind of what launched us and then it happened again in the 90s with you know, Tarantino Rodriguez, Spike Lee, all that, that new crew as well. So exactly, it goes, it goes into it goes in cycles.

And we're on the verge of that because we're seeing it, which we were talking about the YouTube stars is the ability that they have curated an audience that the audience goes where they are, and I've seen studios come in and make digital content with the stars. Basically the studio is trying to piggyback on their success. But the funny thing is is like even if the product is shit, sorry, cuz it's right by the

now I have no I have to put an exploit because I'm not bumping it out. So go ahead. The very disappointed in us.

Even if it's crap. What happens is that the studios, you know, the fan base will go with that, that talent, whether or not they're on a studio platform, or they're on their own personal platform, or wherever it might be. So that's where the empowerment is coming from. All these independent artists are beginning to collect as Seth Godin talks about your tribe, your you're accumulating your tribe, and your tribe does not have to be that big. It only has to be you know, as Kevin Kelley, his famous blog post says 1000 true fans, the concept they receive 1000 true fans that paid you a $100 every year for your art, you would make $100,000 that is a nice, middle class living, you know, depends.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:09
Depending on where you live in the country, it could be upper middle class.

Scott Mcmahon 1:00:13
Yes, exactly.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:15
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Scott Mcmahon 1:00:26
Or, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:00:27
la you're barely barely surviving Sir

2000 3000 at least. But you can see the metrics and metrics are now much more tangible. Now, it's not about trying to get a million views on your work, you're you're just trying to make sure you're giving value to a very specific group of people, a small numbers but but have high value. So I wrote this book, as a to be a guinea pig to say I will write a book put on Amazon, see how it works? how did how does the selling mechanisms work and don't work? That took me down a rabbit hole took me way longer to write this book. And the name of the book is called How to make and sell your film online and survive the Hollywood implosion while doing it. And it's designed to go through these things about what is the plight of the Uber independent filmmaker. And so we were talking about, if you have a film that doesn't solve a problem, like we are like a book that doesn't solve a problem, then how can you take that $4 product and make it $100 product? And what are you really selling that? So have an example of in my book where I wrote like, if you're making a horror film, say you have your horror film that you sell for $4, rental $10, download, purchase, or $19, whatever it is, so that's what you're selling on the video video on the demand side, you could do an upsell to $100 product which is like hey, grab our all our bonus features of you know of how to our video training modules of how to properly run your own ghost hunting expedition. Not only that, but here's a list of all the equipment that we use to do a proper ghost hunting here's your EMF reader, your voice recorder all this kind of stuff where you assemble in be a curate and basically become an affiliate salesperson for these these items. If you bundle enough that it's worth $100 you can see a fan like oh, check this out cool. I like this movie, or I really, really more interested in like knowing like, what do I need to do to do my own ghost hunting expedition and they offer it for 100 bucks, sure, boom. So now you're all of a sudden your film is an advertisement promoting to this higher price value, then you do another upsell to like a more one on one experience. Imagine like for you know, $3,000 come join us on a weekend expedition with the film crew, all the stars of the film, as we do a ghost hunting expedition at this famous castle this weekend, or whatever. So the whole thing is now you're not the independent filmmaker, the artist doesn't feel like they're selling out. Because they were whatever you create, you were inspired by something. So you're trying to make sure that the marketing message is in alignment with the spirit of why you made the film or what your film is about. And the cool thing is like you're not targeting other filmmakers, you know, Case in point though you were because with with broken it made total sense. So you had a great upsell, you had a great bundle package that totally worked great. But if you're if you want to go that down that path, then you can start targeting people that are interested in ghost hunting or, and then your films about that.

What did you see? Did you've ever seen the documentary food matters? Mm hmm. What those guys have done is amazing. They've actually turned one good documentary about food. And they've now packaged it not just like they they're like basically a distributor at this point. have other food related and health related content. And they sell courses and they sell all all based around one movie like they turn to one little movie into this amazing business. Same thing with fat Sick and Nearly Dead. Yeah. Joe cross turned this entire he built this little Empire off of this documentary, which is an awesome documentary and then he just released the sequel. So I

Scott Mcmahon 1:04:15
have no I was I had that in my book as a case study. And here's here's something for all filmmakers to learn that on the most basic level. So Joe cross he makes this film right Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead. He's overweight, on medication and he he takes us through a journey of 60 day juicing diet basically which works which works he does it cleanses you, we see him transformed before our very eyes. And then he shows other people that he meets along the way, doing the same transformation. It's amazing. So if there is such visual promotion, ample amplification of what he's done, and proof of concept of a concept that you makes you go when you go to the site, the original website that he had was he promoted The rebel, the rebel. Oh yeah, the Breville juicer juicer that was an Australian company because he's Australian. And he's an affiliate salesperson, because you would click that it would go to his affiliate link on Amazon,

Alex Ferrari 1:05:12
and he got it. But he got a he got a bit he did a better deal than Joseph. Yes, yeah. Yeah.

Scott Mcmahon 1:05:19
But what happened was that he helped increase sales like 50%. Or more

Alex Ferrari 1:05:23
than that. No. She's also she's, yeah,

Scott Mcmahon 1:05:27
so they came in, and they funded his second film, and they became, they brought him as a partner. But that's like the really great case study, study. But what we can gather from the most basic level is you make a film. And it maybe has, it's tied to a product that already exists, just sign up for Amazon and set it yourself as an affiliate, and just have that as part of your website, which is like, if you're doing a ghost hunting film, you know, package ghost hunting gear, you're not making the product, you're just using your film to promote and advertise this upsell of these products that exists. And if you're not selling out at all,

Alex Ferrari 1:06:07
no, you know, it's funny that I don't know if I told you this on our interview when we did it on on on unfilmed troopers podcast, but they tell you that I that I signed up for Amazon's affiliate program to sell broken Oh, really? Yeah, I actually this isn't that this is back in the day. They don't allow this anymore. But what I did was I would sell the only place you can buy broken on Amazon was through me. So then I bought I set up an affiliate link to my product from my website. So then when I had people go and buy on Amazon from me, I wouldn't get a kickback on my own product. You have to, but it was Britain now they won't allow that. Yeah, but it was like I was always making an extra two bucks. On each sales was like, Oh, this is great. You know, it was like it was insanity back in the day. But have you ever heard of a filmmaker called Isaac number one not wanna?

Scott Mcmahon 1:07:02
I don't even know how to spell that.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:04
Na BWA Na. Isaac is just so you know, and I'm going to actually if I haven't already, by the time this is out I'm actually going to do an entire piece on him. He is a he's ugen does first action film director. Oh, and he is made a movie called who killed Captain Alex Excuse me. He's made 47 movies in two years. His average budgets 200 bucks. And there are the Campion I mean obviously the the campus he's taught himself how to make movies. He He taught himself stop clicking Scott Scott clicking so because I'm trying to follow along. So, so anyway, he creates this this he starts his company and he The reason why I love him so much is that he has just a straight up passion. His his tripod is made out of a car jack and his jib arm is made out of car parts. The machine gun is a lawn mower that he built like so it actually runs like a machine gun like a Gatling gun. I mean, he's got it's obviously all community based. He lives in like a shanty town, somewhere in Uganda. He's made 47 of these movies. He's huge. I mean, huge there. He sells them. He sells out movie theaters locally. He because he's become this this phenomenon down there. Because but the thing I love about him is that he builds his own computer so he can edit himself when the power goes out, because there's a rainfall and the power goes out in the town. He's got battery backup, so can he keep editing, he does a movie basically about a movie a month. You know, and with blood and action and guts and all this kind of stuff. And if you watch this stuff he's like, he's like the Edward of Africa. You know, they're not they're not particularly at the same level as our stuff is because obviously technically doesn't have that training or equipment or personnel to do it. But the passion and the love that he has is in that you can see it. It's so in there. But what's more important as a lesson is that this man figured out his market and built his tribe, literally almost. Yeah. And sells directly to his tribe. Now he added on top of that, what you were saying early, creating a package. He doesn't just sell DVDs. Sometimes he sells full costumes, so you can play out the parts in the movie as a package deal with the DVDs. Yes, that's fantastic. It's a fantastic story. So I'm going to be I'm going to be spotlighting and probably in about two weeks, because I just found his story so amazing. I'm like there has to be more people who hear about him because I don't want to hear any more whining that you can Make a movie The man's tripod is it it's ga and he's shooting it on. I don't even it looks like some sort of, it almost looks like the dv x 100 day but I don't think it's tape based. I still do think it's the next level up. But it's like, you know, he's got his little sound guy. He's got that in there. You know, he goes, he shoots green screen. He does all his own visual effects, I think probably through avid through after effects or something. They're not particularly like I said they're not particularly good. But there's so it's just so much fun to watch someone so passionate about what they're doing. And he takes it. This is this is his business. This is his life. He owns a rat, was it Raman film productions, which is the first Buganda action film company, you know, and he's dealing with mafia stuff and ruthless drug dealers and gangs and all this kind of stuff. It's it's just amazing. It really, really is amazing. So anyway, we went on off topic there. Oh, no,

Scott Mcmahon 1:11:01
no, I was just, you know, when I was clicking around, I have to a friend of mine, fellow film trooper who runs his own podcast, Jamie Francis, backyard films of he's up in Canada. He's got he did an interview with that guy. And I say, Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:11:17
no. Yeah. So Oh, my God, I gotta listen to it now. Yeah, no,

Scott Mcmahon 1:11:21
Jamie's a great guy. So, but I'm excited to see his podcast grow as well. But yes, that's fantastic. Like, all the stuff we're talking about is getting. Really it is it's like, getting out of the mindset of like, you're gonna make something and somebody's gonna discover you. That's not gonna, you know, it could be outliers, it happens. But in

Alex Ferrari 1:11:43
the lottery ticket, man, it's a lot. I mean, and I was I was talking to john Reese the other day, not to drop a name. But do you know me and john were hanging out now I interviewed him for my podcast. And he did this a great analogy, because Okay, so every year, here are the number guys so everyone gets sobered up. This is gonna sober everybody up. 50,000 feature films are made a year, out of those 50,000 films, 15,000 gets submitted into Sundance, after those 15,000 feature films gets this is all local American stuff, not worldwide American. So that after that, out of those 15,013 will be picked for. For competition. Out of those 13. one, maybe two will get a distribution deal. If it's lucky. And out of those, the percentage drops down to almost nothing that those filmmakers will make any money past the initial money that they were paid. It's it's a sobering fact. These are all sobering facts that people can look up. So a lot of people you have to understand like that's a lottery ticket, and even the lottery tickets, not the lottery ticket anymore. I've worked with film I've worked with multiple filmmakers who've won Oscars for short film Best Short Film, I've worked with filmmakers who've won Sundance South by Southwest Tribeca, all the bigs to all the big film festivals. And it doesn't guarantee anything anymore. It just doesn't. So it's not that lot. That lottery ticket is not the lottery ticket that that everyone thinks it was back in the 90s. And if we can just keep preaching that, get that out of that mindset of filmmakers. Today, I think everyone will be better off I'm sorry, I got off my soapbox.

Scott Mcmahon 1:13:19
Oh, no, no, I mean, that's that's it. I mean, I think I mean, I mean, even those numbers are daunting. But but that's because everybody's racing towards like this scarcity model that you know, the Sundance or film distribution companies or Hollywood is set up is that's that's the breakdown of that business model. They can only select so much they can only, you know, release so many films. So where do we all go? If that's the case, if you build your tribe, if you build your own audience, and again, you're only looking for 2500 people that are loyal to you, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:13:54
and then if you have 500 people that pay you $100 a year, which it breaks down to like, what, eight $9 a month?

Scott Mcmahon 1:14:03
Well, how many

Alex Ferrari 1:14:05
500 people 500 people a year? $100 a year? That's $50,000? Yes. 50 grand? Yeah. And that ends up being about $8 a month. So it's only eight and I'm horrible math, eight $9 a month, something like that, right? Maybe less, maybe more? Yeah, in that general area. Wow. You know, that doesn't seem that daunting, all of a sudden, like, you know, but now you've got to figure out how to get that money from those people who really want to support you. I mean, look at look with Lloyd Lloyd Kaufman's done over a trauma over the years. I mean, Jesus, man, that guy is made, you know, 30 years he's been doing this since since the, like the early 80s. It was the 70s I think even and he's built up this entire little Empire. I mean, he's not like rolling in it by any stretch. He might be I don't know, but he doesn't portray himself to be that way. But he built an audience up for his specific kind of movie that talks Avenger crowd, and they love them and ape and they buy anything he comes out with, you know, Romeo and Juliet. He had another one a kabuki was a kabuki pie. You know, it's like, so many wonderful titles that but but he has his tribe and then he sells to his tribe all the time and his tribe loves him. So that's what all filmmakers should, should aspire to

Scott Mcmahon 1:15:24
do. And here's the funny thing is what we're finding is filmmakers are getting to a place where you have to drill down to find out what your voice is, what do you stand for? What, what makes your artistic voice unique? And what happens is majority of filmmakers that are starting out, they're just interested in the craft. So when they're sharing their stuff online, it's like, hey, check out the latest clip. They're just they're so excited to share just that they made it. And then they give you stop there just

Alex Ferrari 1:15:56
so excited that they made it Yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah, I get it completely.

Scott Mcmahon 1:16:01
But if you stop and ask him like, what is what does this feel mean to you? What is it about? What's the bigger message? What is the theme of the movie,

Alex Ferrari 1:16:07
But I made it I made a movie is that is that not enough?

Scott Mcmahon 1:16:11
Exactly. And that's and that is the cycle that a lot of us in the independent film space are finding Case in point. So the cube, I can, you know, wrap this up, I don't want to go too long here because we've gone too long. But the if the concept is our films are an advertisement because we're exploiting the license. And we want to stop selling on video on demand with the same business model that Hollywood has put forth. Meaning that we're not selling a $4 product anymore, because that's what it is. But we use it as an advertisement to sell something more expensive $100 $500 product, and we are accounting for it, we are only looking for a few transactions. We're not trying to push a lot of transactions. So you know, the queue was made for so little, but I have I control that IP. So the thing is, is that I'm digging down I go What is the theme of my movie, The theme of my movie for the cube was letting go fear, fear and worry just letting go of fear. Because it has this Buddhist theme sort of overtones to it. There's a prominent Buddhist statue that takes that's has relevance into the movie. So I was like, Okay, I did like a just a simple Google AdWords search on letting go fear. And it's like 250,000 searches come up per month for that search term within subcategories, like depression, anxiety, whatever it is. So what that tells me is like, um, now I have an opportunity to reintroduce remarket the film to a whole new audience that are not filmmakers, and you haven't done this yet. I haven't done this yet. This is yes. So this is an analysis of like, okay, the great thing about is like, okay, made my money back, plus more, but how can I make more money, but utilizing this concept of I got to use my film as an advertisement to sell something at a higher price point, the first thing to do is I got to tap into the psyche that it's got to solve a problem of how do you let go of fear, and but I use my film as sort of the stylistic context of this discussion. And, but then I'm probably just going to upsell it to other Buddhist statues that are available on Amazon. That way I don't have to that I wanted to make it or not the manufacturer onto the ship it I just literally create a unique experience when somebody has watched the movie. And then there's some other added bonuses that lead them to a sale. Either they can watch the movie for the low price point or if they want more they're connected to it if a audience gets connected to it, perhaps they'll buy you know, the Buddha statue 150 bucks and I might make a 20% of it or actually, it might be a percent of that. That's all about packaging. It's all Yeah, but the whole point that the concept is there the idea that I can remarket it to a whole new audience not other filmmakers tapping into the deep emotional message the marketing message if you don't wanna use marketing use amplifier people get uncomfortable artists sometimes like my films and advertisement they as only sack religious it's like no don't use advertisement use the term amplifier What is your film amplify and what are the other products that you can create that totally makes sense for somebody experiencing it on any one of us if we're buying something Star Wars and they up sold us to like hey get this you get your own you know, Millennium Falcon that's like a big wheel you know whatever you know it's like whatever

Alex Ferrari 1:19:24
I would i would buy that this is like okay bilaterally

Scott Mcmahon 1:19:29
if you get the bundle package of course so this is that so that this is for anybody the filmmaker out there who is not documentaries haven't that's an easier but they're so targeted in their sort of specific causes sometimes Oh,

Alex Ferrari 1:19:43
like yeah, like that, like that guests you had a few weeks ago on your podcast, age of age of champions. Oh, that stories are amazing.

Scott Mcmahon 1:19:51
Okay, so we can sum that story up real quick. So I had on my these guys were amazing. They're just two independent documentarian. filmmakers, they made a film called aged champions winning never gets old is about following a few senior citizens competing in the Senior Olympics. I think the film was only like 40 minutes long. But they went to the film festival circuit got nothing, you know, like, no distribution deal, nothing. But they discovered that the real audience there, the biggest fans were these women in their 40s. That worked at a, like a hospice care or elderly care centers. They were using the film as a advertising amplifier to inspire the senior citizens there to show them what is possible, right? So then they took that they doubled down on that audience, they start going to conventions, then because we're talking about you need to control your license, you need to exploit the license.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:42
And real quick, was there a hospice conventions?

Scott Mcmahon 1:20:46
Yeah, the other conventions were like, people are showing like the latest prosthetics

Alex Ferrari 1:20:51
Sure, yeah, of course, I'm just joking. I'm just kidding. I was just kidding. I was just getting good.

Scott Mcmahon 1:20:57
So anyways, yeah, so they have, because they control the license, they didn't just sell the DVDs for like $10 $20, they decided to create a licensing package bundle fee. So a organization that wanted to use their film to inspire better living, healthier lifestyle for the elderly, elderly people, with license their film bundle for a price of $150, or $250, they were able to sell so many different licenses across the country, were able to get the notice by the AARP events, or the retirement people commute. Organization, they got some underwriting from that. There's long story short, is they they made, they grossed over $1.3 million, were able to keep more than half of that because their team was so small, and their expenses were so small. And now they literally are making a living just doing that. Because they've figured out a different, like NBA style of promoting their film, because they control the licenses they exploited. And they actually offered a licensing deal. So that's why everybody's like, what my films a narrative, or how do I how do I do the same thing? Well, like I said, you can figure out what product or value or something or bundle that's more that's worth more, and use it to advertise that bundle. And once we get started going into that place, we're gonna see a lot of these filmmakers that are just doing it. Because they're going to sorry about the cough, they're going to get to that place where they're totally on the radar, they may not be you know, the something sexy for the press. But when the implosion happens when an offer comes in from a distributor This is Oh, like what your film is? Yeah, I'll take all rights to it. I'll give you I'll give you back in money or I'll give you a small advance of 5000 again No, no, there you know use it if you own the license, like why would I hand over the my entire license my control to this company,

Alex Ferrari 1:22:56
I'm selling you my movie for $5,000 because I'll never make a dime back generally speaking

Scott Mcmahon 1:23:01
Very much or they they're like us, we also want your audience like so that it's actually happening now. In the book publishing industry. publishers are requiring authors to have already a marketing campaign and an audience before they decide to publish their book. musicians are the same way they require musicians already have a large enough following and this AFM that's coming up in a couple weeks there's already discussion that sales agents need to know that the director stars have a large social media following like then So the thing is like a sales agent and a distribution company they don't have any cachet they need the people that they're they're going to assume all the rights to also have the audience to bring with it to make their job easier selling the film amazing. Absolutely. So it's gonna get to the point where filmmakers artists collectively all artists, authors musicians, you know filmmaker because filmmaking because that's the last thing that was so hard is that filmmaking used to need a lot of people cost a lot of money just to make your art but we're seeing the case studies this guy in Uganda making his films I made my film for so

Alex Ferrari 1:24:11
so it's gotten to a certain point where it's it's it's more affordable than was before to make a quality movie that actually makes money at a larger scale there is certain costs that still have to happen even the iPhone movie and tangerine that one Sundance it was made for a certain budget in two there is some money that has to be put out but not what you know before look I when I did my demo reel as a commercial director back in the 90s It cost me $50,000 you know that same demo reel today would maybe cost me five grand Yeah, you know what I mean to shoot the same the same situation so it's it's but there's still money to be put out but drastically less

Scott Mcmahon 1:24:48
Yes. So that's what's happening is you know, we are finally coming to the same level as musicians and authors and but we're we have the same business marketing strategies that we can learn from each other. They have been doing for longer because this it's hit their industry first before it said the independent film sector so yeah so I guess that sums it all up if you know gosh you know people want to know more I actually offer this free three part video series on the new adventures and film distribution that's kind of fun because it takes them to this like sort of cartoon adventure of where film distribution is where what we think about video on demand cuz I go more in detail about the video on demand myth and really breaking down the numbers but then showing them there's there's a there's a outlet there's there's hope and it's tangible and it's in our control and it's very exciting but we have to change our sort of perspective on things but once you do you're like a cool so I'm excited because I didn't know any of this stuff you know a couple years ago when I finished the cube and started filling trooper like the last year and a half has been exploring these questions in depth and trying to come back from the I guess I got on my little hero's journey where I came back from the Indian brought the elixir a brought that back going back go Hey guys this is what I found out this this is all the people I've interviewed look at these things are happening we can do the same thing.

Alex Ferrari 1:26:06
I'm going I'm going through the same thing I'm going through the same thing here with indie film hustle on a little bit and a little bit same Yeah, similar thing. So let me ask you before before we go, because I know you're very very busy man. I have to bring this up only purely because I'm a huge fan. How was it working on grim? Oh.

Scott Mcmahon 1:26:29
So those of you don't know I make a part time living up here in Portland as an actor. Yes. And if

Alex Ferrari 1:26:36
you can't tell, can you tell them why you make it? Yeah.

Scott Mcmahon 1:26:40
It's not because I'm a good actor. It's because there's a lot of white people up here and there. And I am half Asian. So I have a very unique look. And it's what my type is. And I am considered up here the non threatening ambiguous ethic

Alex Ferrari 1:26:58
I just wanted to do to say that on my podcast, it's so amazing. You have no idea I call him that all the time. It's just the best description of a human being ever. Um, but what but I was looking at Scott's demo reel the other day and I I see grim and I'm like oh my god that was Scott on grim grim shoots up in Portland Yeah, I'm looking forward to the new season I'm a huge fan so how was it fun? You know what I'm gonna geek out now

Scott Mcmahon 1:27:29
Okay, this is so my job as a day player a co star the titles for it and usually like they're always the characters that are just giving exposition to set up for the main characters to to move the story along you know that's all your job is your like you're there for a couple scenes couple lines and you're out and you know, I got in for a couple auditions for the casting studio and and i i've gotten a few callbacks before but they were always things like European thug and so I've got my bit as a European thug and the director

Alex Ferrari 1:28:05
you're not you're not threatening How can you do

Scott Mcmahon 1:28:08
it because the director was he'll stop and the when I finished like okay jabi what are you Hawaiian? There's no way I'm gonna get the job it was supposed to be like European like I think some Hawaiian

Alex Ferrari 1:28:23
right you're definitely not Europeans got that just not a European vibe to you.

Scott Mcmahon 1:28:27
So so so funny I go into the callback and this time it's for a cop and the dream rolls up here are the good rolls again is on that particular show is you're trying to get like a paramedic role or lawyer or a cop because in this small market you want to have an opportunity come back on the show because you don't get killed off

Alex Ferrari 1:28:47
because if you get killed if you're a monster you're done. Yeah.

Scott Mcmahon 1:28:50
So I was like, cool, I got a cop maybe there's chance I can come back. But anyhow, so I go in for the role of the cop I do my callback and the main casting director she's playing the role of Nick who's the main actor, or the main character, and I wasn't she's a very petite small woman and she was so into character I wasn't ready for it. And I started laughing and I go sorry, we started over I wasn't ready for the full commitment right so I you know, I strike why exactly flub my lines that I was like I left I go and I'm like guy what a total failure. But I got a call that's like you got booked. I was like, Oh, I started this laughing he's gonna understand my family. When we moved up here to Portland the full time job I had I could tell it was on the verge of like folding apart so I was like, Oh, you know, I should start figuring out maybe some other employment options. And I was like, you know, I'm going to dust off my real resume or whatever my headshot and see if I can get any acting work up here. And my wife's like, what? Like, I have done acting since I was my 20s. She's like,

Alex Ferrari 1:29:55
She's like, I didn't marry an actor. was what like, like, we I have a family sir. Kept serious

Scott Mcmahon 1:30:03
she was he was like whatever and like we were already watching grim and we knew his shot and in Portland and so like just like the third season when I get it I just got cast and grand which is like what

Alex Ferrari 1:30:19
we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show

Scott Mcmahon 1:30:29
it's so surreal because being a fan of the show for like two years oh no yeah and then your bond Yeah, then you're on set and the scene comes in where Juliet Nick come in and they're totally in character. And they walk in and they're looking right at you in character and they're delivering the lines and I had like a split second go oh my god, like don't look okay, I'm not like I'm acting I have to act

Alex Ferrari 1:30:51
right right after I but it

Scott Mcmahon 1:30:55
was pretty fun everything you know what the experience was everything you hope it to be and from that perspective, I can say that the acting is got to be the best job in all disciplines. The my feelings when you're working when you're when you're working. Because yes, because when you're on set, they say is everything you hoped to be they give you like, here's your old trailer and they there's a PA comes over. Hey, Mr. McMahon, can I get you a breakfast burrito? I'm like, Oh, yeah, sure. You know, it's like, every season was very good. So spoiled in this whole mess. So spoiled. I was like in the makeup chair. And then it's hockey. And I'm like, this is fine. You get driven to the separate like van with the main cast to those to location, and then you do your rehearsal, and then you're sitting around forever, just you know, waiting to get here, right? Yeah. And then well, here's the funny thing because I'm a day player. I know that my job is has delivered the lines for exposition, like I said, the initial shot the master shot was they did a steady cam over behind me. So it was over my shoulder looking at the main actors to get the main coverage. Sure, sure. And I was like, I was supposed to be protecting a hospital wing for some sick boy that could be possessed could not be possessed or whatever. And I was thinking myself, Hmm, I only got two lines on this may actually be it. This may be the only shot they ever used. Oh no, it's the back of my head. So I purposely, like halfway through my line. I turned towards the camera. I deliver the line for

Alex Ferrari 1:32:21
frickin actors. Just stand where you are.

Scott Mcmahon 1:32:25
Low behold, they never say caught. What the hell are you doing? No, of course. And they went ahead and did a close up over the shoulder. So I had to design your things. I had to repeat the same motion over and over. But the only reason if you see this clip is that I turned into the the hospital wing was because that was me trying to get coverage on the master shots so

Alex Ferrari 1:32:45
you have something for your reel. Exactly.

Scott Mcmahon 1:32:48
I've seen Believe me, I've seen shows where I could totally tell the day Act, the tour poor day player didn't even figure this out and they delivered all their lines in the back of their head never saw their face.

Alex Ferrari 1:32:57
So that's a free a free tip for all the actors listening. If you ever get on as a day player, make sure they see your face. But unobtrusive way because as a director, if if an actor did that to me, I would lose my collective crap. I'd be like, Dude, seriously, I'll get your close up. Just sit there. I promise. All right, Jesus, you don't know you don't know. You don't know. So you gotta This is my shot. I gotta take it. Yeah, I don't fault you for by any stretch. So last two questions, sir. This was the toughest one of them all. I'm sure you know what they are. But this question is, what is your top three films of all time?

Scott Mcmahon 1:33:34
Well, I know I know this question, but I'm gonna I'm gonna throw you some. Some. Some side ones there. Okay, let's say somewhere in time.

Alex Ferrari 1:33:44
Okay. Wow, Christopher Reeve. Okay. Yeah, like, Whoa,

Scott Mcmahon 1:33:47
that particular

Alex Ferrari 1:33:48
No, that makes perfect sense for you. So don't don't don't don't it makes absolute sense. Go ahead. time traveling love story. I mean, I got it.

Scott Mcmahon 1:33:57
Yeah. I can throw that out there. Okay. Um,

Alex Ferrari 1:34:01
who was the girl in that? Please remind me right now. Jane Seymour. Jc more Thank you when she was like Jane Seymour.

Scott Mcmahon 1:34:06
Yeah, I'm gonna say Rudy.

Alex Ferrari 1:34:09
also makes perfect sense.

Scott Mcmahon 1:34:12
And that aside, there's just my top three but I can guarantee that when these films Come on, I stop and watch them. Rudy, I always cry

Alex Ferrari 1:34:20
now. Of course everyone cries it Rudy. I mean, you're you're a savage. You're a heartless bastard if you don't cry, Rudy. I mean seriously. It's that movie is so good. It's such like it's amazing. And it's not It wasn't like a huge box office hit or anything but people when they watch it, they're like that kid was he's a psychotic I mean seriously. Yeah, the kid that kid the guy really had issues you know, to do what he did. Rudy if you're listening out there, man. Seriously, Rudy? Rudy ruettiger my friend I know he's like a dentist or a doctor or something at this point but but got me No seriously. Book. Wow, what a percent. He just kept going. Go ahead.

Scott Mcmahon 1:34:57
I know. It's like that and Oh, man. There's a third one I really wanted to throw out there resist odd but I will. I'm gonna go with

Alex Ferrari 1:35:07
Amadeus. Okay, another great one. That's it's actually been on the show a few times.

Scott Mcmahon 1:35:11
Okay, cause those three films in particular, I remember as a young person watching on the day is not knowing anything about the film. And because I was so young, I thought, like every film had to be like Star Wars, right? So when I saw this film that was so just the storytelling was I was engrossed by this. I was like, that's when I realized film can be more somewhere in time was in special to me, because it's like a love story. I'm only watching this because a Superman, you know, you know that I know that I would fully just become enveloped with this story. And then Rudy was just touching because I cannot I always cry. Oh, at the end.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:46
I don't know. No, it's just just Yeah, like, there's certain movies like that, you know,

Scott Mcmahon 1:35:50
There's three that I was trying to throw out there was different, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:35:53
Not bad, and so they're all good. They're all good. Amadeus is one of those movies like when you I watched it probably the exact same time you watched it when we were young. And I've watched it during my high school years. So during the high school years, john Claude Van Damme was the greatest actor of all time. I'm sure you can relate Bloodsport, obviously is the greatest film ever made. And all his other I can I can really I can literally list off his filmography up to a certain year for back in the day, so for me to watch a movie like you know, Amadeus, I was like anchoring it into Amadeus. And like understand like wow, like, if you can go from Bloodsport, to being like the hardcore lover of Bloodsport and hard to kill Steven Seagal also another great great thespian of his time to go to Amadeus and you know that the same mind to like both it says a lot about on Wednesdays especially at the time frame of my life when I watched it, it was well it's amazing film and I got to haven't seen that movie in probably about 15 or 20 years I have to actually go back and watch it again so So Scott, where can people find you?

Scott Mcmahon 1:37:02
You know what just go to filmtrooper,com like Stormtrooper but just filmtrooper.com

Alex Ferrari 1:37:06
Trademark infringement

Scott Mcmahon 1:37:11
Literally there's only really one thing to do there you sign up for the free three part video series and you it's just fun, you get a chance to take this new journey to the adventures of film distribution. Yeah, and that's it I also part of like joining up on the film, the film trooper email list, you get a weekly free video on demand and digital download report, you know to help you kind of gauge your business plan if you needed to know what's going on in that world, as well as a bunch of other free goodies and I'm almost at my 100th episode of my podcast so it's a milestone coming

Alex Ferrari 1:37:43
Nice congratulations I'm I'm the rookie still sir. I'm still trying to catch up to you sir.

Scott Mcmahon 1:37:47
But you are crushing it and it's very it's so cool to meet you in these circumstances this way. So it's awesome.

Alex Ferrari 1:37:54
Oh, thank you. Now if anybody needs a non threatening Asian please look him up. He's amazing. His work. His work on Grimm was stellar. Why the Emmys did not did not look at him at this is Travis de ser a Travis. Scott, thank you again for coming on board bad a pleasure. Absolute pleasure having you on the show.

Scott Mcmahon 1:38:15
Man. Thank you so much. Thank you everybody for listening.

Alex Ferrari 1:38:18
Scott's a great guy. Man. I love having him on the show. He's doing some really great work over at filmtrooper.com and you can get all of the links to Scott and his book and everything at indiefilmhustle.com/037 at the show notes. So also guys, don't forget to head over to filmmakingpodcast.com and leave us an honest review of the show. It would really help us out a lot so have a safe and happy new year to all you guys. I wish you guys nothing but the best in the coming New Year and that you all get your movies made all of them get out there and you can start making a living and surviving and thriving by being an artist and by being a filmmaker in the coming year and for many years to come. So keep that dream alive. Keep that hustle going. And I'll talk to you guys next year.