IFH 615: The Unfiltered History of Film Distribution with AFM Co-Founder Michael Ryan

Michael Ryan started his career working in the TV industry for Sir Lew Grade’s UK company, ITC. In 1978 he formed J&M Entertainment with a colleague, a distribution sales agent for independent films. As J&M grew, it developed its business model to also take responsibility for financing new films & providing production finance.

In 1980 Ryan and J&M were founder members of the American Film Marketing Association (AFMA) – later to be renamed Independent Film & Television Alliance (IFTA) – which was formed to provide an annual film market based in Los Angeles. Michael served two terms as Chairman of IFTA (2004-2008) and another three terms from 2015-2021.

In 2000, Ryan partnered with Guy Collins. Between them they have financed, sold and produced over 200 films, including The Wild Geese, The English Patient, The General, Whats Eating Gilbert Grape, The Osterman Weekend, the Highlander series, Planet 51 and more recently, at GFM Films with Fred Hedman, Toei Animations Harlock, Absolutely Anything starring Simon Pegg and Simon West-directed action thriller Stratton starring Dominic Cooper. On July 15, 2022, GFM’s Paws of Fury: The Legend of Hank, an independently financed and produced animated feature is based on Mel Brooks iconic Blazing Saddles that launched as a project by GFM Films at AFM in 2014, was released across 4,500 U.S. screens by Paramount.

Please enjoy my conversation with Michael Ryan.

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Michael Ryan 0:00
There was a top 20 or 30 that anybody would kill to get hold of. So you know it, it will all have that huge Gold Rush formed the quality. And those guys benefited from it. I did too.

Alex Ferrari 0:14
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, How to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com. I'd like to welcome to the show Michael Ryan, how you doing, Michael?

Michael Ryan 0:28
I'm good. Thank you. Yeah, very good.

Alex Ferrari 0:31
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to talk to you. You've lived a very interesting life in our business. You've done a bunch of different things. And and my very first question is How and why did you want to get into this business? How did you get into this? This insanity? That is the film industry?

Michael Ryan 0:48
Yeah. That's a very good question. I, I started working for a guy called Colonel David Stirling, who was the man who founded the SHS in the Second World War. So all of that stuff, I didn't have anything to do with that was just working as a little Junior making sales of TV programs and blah, blah, blah. Unbeknown to me, he had all sorts of places in hotspots around the world, which were all based in television stations. So basically, he was supplying private armies. So it was all quite interesting. I didn't I didn't join for that. I just joined because I liked the idea of being in television and radio. And then it kind of went from there. And somebody offered me a job I worked for Lord then served all great, who was a wonderful man and taught me a lot of what I get gathered for my knowledge. And I just loved it. And I went for it. He went from there into making movies and some really big movies. And I got the opportunity to travel the world and you know, do the Cannes Film Festival and all of that stuff, which which, which I loved, I have to say, as you said earlier, it was the golden age of independent film. And some of those independent filmmakers became the big major filmmakers that we have today. And I kind of got into it almost almost by accident, but knowing that I wanted to be in something where I had contact with people around the world and travel and all of that. So it kind of worked out that way. And then that that led to producing and financing movies, that cetera, which is basically the whole of my career, I suppose.

Alex Ferrari 2:30
So you were so when you're talking about the golden age of independent film, you're talking about the 70s 80s. And that kind of world?

Michael Ryan 2:38
Yeah, I mean, there was this period was there was this glorious period, where what if you want to see a film out of the cinema, but that soon became video, the invention of the VCR. And at that point, all of us guys that were packaging and making and selling TV programs and films, realized that there was a secondary and third and fourth value to these things. And that's when it became obvious that you could do anything because the money was enormous in those days. It was a brand new brand new invention and people that big video companies were competing like crazy, much, much bigger hunting area than than what we have today with VOD. And so you our value was in library, the value is in production and sales. And can at that point was just a money making machine. It was ridiculous.

Alex Ferrari 3:39
No, but I have a little bit of experience of the 80s in the sense of the distribution space because I worked in a video store. So I saw the product moving in, I saw what kind of movies were being made to my understanding at the beginning of the VHS revolution, just kind of like streaming as well, and kind of like DVD and everything else. The main major studios stayed away. They were very kind of they were kind of like, oh, no, I don't want to just do it. No, I can't do that. And because of that, it allowed companies like New World trauma, the full moon these kinds of be and of course can and these kinds of be movies, companies to come out and just own the VHS home video market. I mean, Canon was built. I mean, he was making I'm God. Those guys were making scene amounts of money with Ninja ninja movies, for God's sakes.

Michael Ryan 4:33
It would there were those days where it literally in those days, the cannon boys you could literally put a poster on a wall with nothing else. A couple of names a title, literally a poster, and you probably make enough sales during the Cannes Film Festival in less than two weeks to finance the movie. So you sold it on a poster. You ended up with a film

Alex Ferrari 4:57
From what I understood talking to some of those boys who worked with with cannon. During those days, like sometimes they would just put the name of the actors up. And they didn't have the actor.

Michael Ryan 5:11
Oh, no, that was the last thing they did. I mean, it really was cowboy time. But bless them, you know, they, they, they spawned a huge industry, they kept variety screen International, those industry magazines going, you know, you'd have a special issue, which would be 250 pages, and about 180 pages, that was canon advertising, each page, a different movie, most of them not made, probably most of them never got made. But it was a it was an extraordinary time. And out of all of that somehow came some really quality movies that were totally independently financed and would never have got made in a major company, which in those days, was the only way to make a movie. So you're right. They did stay away from it. So consequently, it became Gunfight at the OK Corral. You know, everybody was at it. Mario Kasara, Andy Vanja, making first blood, which made them into multimillionaires in one swoop. With Stallone. I mean, just extraordinary time.

Alex Ferrari 6:17
Yeah, he did. They did Terminator two in the early 90s, as well. And Total Recall, the caracal boys and Mario that yeah, it was it was it was it was really the wild wild west. And of course, we can't speak about the 80s without a Ryan. I mean, they they were pumping out Oscar winning movies. And Robocop

Michael Ryan 6:37
I, we were doing a movie with called the hotel in New Hampshire, which is based on Jones book. And I went had to go to New York to meet Arthur Krim, who was old there. And he wanted the movie for North America. And I sat in a big boardroom, it was what it was, you know, I was a kid. And we were doing that. And he said, you know, have you got all these people you say you've got? And I said yes, I'm crossing my fingers under the table? And he said, Well, if you have, then I'm happy to go into business with you. And I said, Yes, we have. And he said, if you've got a moment, and we walked outside into the corridor instead young man, you're either very brave or very stupid. I hope it's the format.

Alex Ferrari 7:28
And that comment, I have to say, is exactly what the film industry is all about. If you're like a you're either very brave, or very stupid, yeah, to get into this business.

Michael Ryan 7:40
And sometimes you do those two in concert with one another, it works both ways. I sometimes still wonder whether Arthur Krim was right.

Alex Ferrari 7:49
So so so I always, always tell filmmakers about the 80s. Because I mean, I was a young man when the 80s. But it was just so much money flowing around in the 80s. And then in the 90s, when DVD showed up, that exploded in a way that it's hard to comprehend. Today as a filmmaker and independent filmmaker, how much money and how easy it was to make money using those formats internationally. And I always used to tell people, because I remember seeing these movies come into the video store in the 80s and early 90s. And literally in the 80s. And please correct me if I'm wrong. If you finished a film just finished it on 35. Yeah, it got a release of some sort, you made some sort of money with it?

Michael Ryan 8:40
Well, there was there was a plethora of, you know, they were video video based or DVD based companies. That's the way they finance themselves. And there were hundreds and hundreds of them. So you could always get a domestic release, you can always get a release in the major countries around the world. And those were the guys who eventually became so good at it. I mean, if they if they weren't very good at it, they went back to selling secondhand cars, which is what they did in the first place. Which is true. And because of that, because of the opportunity, there was some there was some really good companies structured during that period. And it was your right I mean, I, I suppose the reason I sold my company successfully, originally the original company was because we had a very big library, we're making some quite quality movies. And people were falling over themselves. You know, I'd, in the days before cellphones, we have screenings in can of whatever we're screening and people would literally leave the screening early and sprint down the closet to the carton hotel to try and get there before their competitor was ridiculous like the Gold Rush really was extraordinary time. Yeah, it was. We were very lucky to live through it and what I suppose To establish ourselves with it. And it really did work very well. We were, it was a it was a wonderful period. And it did spawn some really good companies, and some really original filmmakers. And you know, you, we all know if you've got a big playing field, there should be a good team coming out of it if you've got picking a few players. And it did, and it worked very well.

Alex Ferrari 10:24
Now, in the 90s, as we come up, I'm kind of going going through the history of from the basically the early 80s. To to where we are today. But in the 90s, there was this movement that happened that wasn't around in the 80s, which was in a big way, which was the the true independent filmmaking movement, which was more the Sundance movement that the Richard Linklater is the clerks, the Robert Rodriguez is of the world those kind of, you know, Spike Lee, those kinds of filmmakers that came out during that time. When I was talking to him, forgive me for dropping a name. When I was talking to Rick Linklater on the show, he was one of the first to come out the gate and the nice thing was 90 or 91. One slacker showed up. Yeah. And he said, when we released it, there was all of a sudden, a business infrastructure to support this kind of filmmaking, which was the VHS, world video store world, they needed product. Because it was there. I know, it's hard to believe now there's we are in a sea of product now. Because it was so cheap to make movies. Now, back then I still I tell people like I used to watch every week, what came out. But like I could literally watch all the releases of the week, which was maybe 345. It was a crazy week. And I would be able to watch every movie that got released in the United States, which was that money. So there was a lack of of that. So there was this infrastructure for that moment. And independent film, how did the markets work with these kinds of films, because they didn't, they weren't genre, some were. But you know, like the John Pearson's of the world, and obviously the Weinstein's and what they were doing. How did the markets work with with this new movement, the 90s kind of Sundance independent movement,

Michael Ryan 12:10
I think it was almost a reaction against the sort of rather crass approach to filmmaking.

Alex Ferrari 12:18
I mean, the Canon boys, the Canon boys, exactly.

Michael Ryan 12:21
And there was that kind of cheapness to it and shabbiness to it. And they were just making films that, as I say, just stick a title on the wall and you make it, there was no real content. And then people I mean, you know, we all talk about Harvey in in derogatory ways, but there was the positive side to him, and the Weinstein Company that Miramax before then, and they began to concentrate on quality, because they realized there was sustainable market out there for more small movies, because very little money with one or two actors, quality actors who weren't necessarily big marquee stars, and it became a business and it really was a business. And those people were able to make movies at a price. And they were sustainable movies that proper proper film buffs, like yourself in those days, would be able to go and see and, and enjoy. Um, so I think it I think it also spawned that it spawned Sundance, you know, I went to the first Sundance, I led to his, you know, place there in the center. Yeah, I did all of that stuff. And that that was spawned by all of all of those days, of course, Sundance concentrated on the quality and the uniqueness and the quirkiness, but it was all there to see. So, as I said earlier, you make enough movies, and some of them are going to be little nuggets. And that's how I started and people like Rodriguez and all of those guys, too, you know, and they all they all came out of that that pool, and establish themselves as a sort of shining example of how to do it, rather than do it in a crass way. And I think, really, it's established what we have today, which is a huge gulf between the big, massive movies that Marvel movies and things like that, that the tentpole movies that the majors make and some other companies, and that the Gulf in the middle is enormous and that that was created in those days, I think by all of the schlock that was being made. And then those little diamonds that came out of it, which people like Harvey Weinstein and others, Bob Shea, people kind of recognize that hang on, there's a bit quality here, this isn't going to disappear down that down the the DVD drain, we can make money out of this and it's sustainable, and it will carry on, and then it becomes worthwhile on the shelf of your company if it's part of your library. And in a way, that's what we did at my company and we had got three or 400 movies, but there was a there was a top 20 or 30 that anybody would kill to get ahold of. So you know it. It All of that huge Gold Rush formed the quality. And those guys benefited from it. I did too.

Alex Ferrari 15:09
Yeah. And then and then they'll and then also the opening of the international market, which was bringing over international films and I know the Weinstein's and Miramax did a fantastic job of feel bringing in like a life is beautiful and, and a lot of these directors that we really never heard of in the States and in the west and spotlighting them and spotlighting them in a way that that didn't exist before.

Michael Ryan 15:32
That's right. I mean, you have, you know, dresses like Chevrolet,

Alex Ferrari 15:35
Chris Losky

Michael Ryan 15:37
I guess last year, I mean, that the international marketplace opened up, and people realize it wasn't just to sell American independent movies, it was actually it was actually spurring those people in those France, Germany, wherever they were actually spurring them on to make more internationally acceptable movies, even though they were local stories. And I think that helps enormously the the marketplace that can the AFM the Venice, Toronto, all benefited by that. And you had this huge conglomerate of people turning up desperate to buy rights. And that became a market and that became a proper business. So film markets became not just as a cheap Film Festival, it became a proper sustainable business. And I think that's why the AFM was formed 40 years ago, but it was formed by all of the professionals in the movie industry thinking, we can't just rely on Cannes, and, and and Berlin and Venice, we've got to create something ourselves. And it was that then that made it work. And still does, you know, they all of those people, it's still a traveling circus, and they go to 345. Everyone, it really is a circuit for three, four or five of those events a year. And it still surprises me actually, in the days of doing things like this, that it still works, you know, I I mean, one particular person that likes human contact, and I think I can do a deal, or make a CO production far better if I'm sitting down opposite somebody than I can on a on a on a camera and a screen. And that still works, I think and that human equality, let's face it, we make films so that we can entertain as many people as possible. So in order to do that, you've got to have a team.

Alex Ferrari 17:30
So you and you were one of the cofounders of AFM. If I'm not mistaken.

Michael Ryan 17:33
I was indeed Yeah, we yeah, there were there. There are a few there are very few left. And it was just literally we realized that at a certain point in the year, which then happened to be February, March, we were thinking there's nothing there in the calendar was a big hole, we can make use of this. And there are about 10 or 15 of us that got together and we put up I think it was 25 $30,000 Each, which in those days was actually quite a lot of money. You got really, that's a lot of money. How do I do that? Anyway, we did it. A lot of us did it, a handful of us did it that created our founder enough money to make it work. And it worked very well. It's, you know, will it will it survive and prosper as it has done with the pandemic in the middle? I don't know. I mean, you know, people have discovered this, and they can use this as a tool very effectively. But I think people will still turn up to do what they do there.

Alex Ferrari 18:34
It's kind of like what happened with the film festivals like yeah, you can watch a movie on your screen. But there's a thing about a film festival that is, is it's very difficult to replicate on in a virtual world, at least at least until my generation dies off. Maybe the generations behind me won't won't understand it. But

Michael Ryan 18:55
I don't know. I mean, I still you're right. I mean it is it is a generational thing. And I still certainly are my friends, kids. Some of them, some of them like you and I are still becoming film buffs. So maybe, maybe there's hope. But there's still that sort of collective sense of seeing something special in a special place. And whether that's your local communal,

Alex Ferrari 19:18
Communal, and a communal, communal experience.

Michael Ryan 19:20
And it works for a lot of movies, especially Thriller Horror, comedy, but that collective experience really works. So I don't think that will disappear. What might disappear is is film festivals in in certain places that aren't going to work. You've got to be very special to have a film festival. People want to travel 1000s of miles to and spend loads of money. But if you're a producer, it's by far the best way to look to launch a movie if you're launching it to launch it to the world and press. That's one thing if you're launching it to sell it, that's a whole other exercise. But all of those things are possible at the right Festival at the right time. And if you get it right, you Got an I've done it hundreds of times you time it right? And that's in the love of the gods most of the time is not because you're so clever. It's Is it ready in time. And if it is ready in time, it's the right festival and you get the right reaction. Then it works and it still does work. And I think that will continue to work as a marketing tool. And it works the other way. I had a movie movie with Timothy Dalton and Valeria galena. It was a historical thing. And a very good director whose name now escapes me. And we got into Ken because it was a French co productions I think strangled, Geagea called to get in. And having voted no, we had a great screening. The I thought the movie played terribly. I was there. The following morning that in the press, the one of the reviewers very clever, he said, I thought it was strange in a strange point in the movie in the middle of the film, there was clapping until I realized that people were leaving the cinema with the sound of the seats doing that as they left. That was it. The film died that very morning, it died. And we there was no way back. So that's the gamble, isn't it? You know, it's a great opportunity. But if you get it wrong, Jesus, you're really screwed.

Alex Ferrari 21:24
And I think what you're saying is there's value in what you're saying in regards to festivals that are five, maybe 10. In the world that matter. Yeah, and the rest.

Michael Ryan 21:35
But what's happening now is, which is kind of encouraging, it kind of works alongside local production. And you know, Netflix, the streamers are getting involved in this, they're making films in, in in strange places where they want to launch their own service. So you're getting Portuguese language movies at the Berber Lucchino fast Oh, Film Festival. So that's that, that can work. And it can work in a in a, in a sales producer type way. And in that you identify if you make a small film, you get go to the right places within a 12 month period. And you can make sales and find distributors in each of those places. So as a kind of local exercise, it's still does work if you've got if you plan it properly, and you're lucky, it does work. And so I think that part of it will carry on, I think that's part of it and exercise MRTS size that that we can still use. And if you use it intelligently, it works.

Alex Ferrari 22:35
Now, I love to talk to you about the Netflix effect, because when streaming showed up, just like everything else that happens in our business, when VHS showed up, everyone's like that's a fad. When DVD shows up as a fad, when streaming showed up, they're like, Oh, this is never really going to take off. I mean, because if I remember logging into Netflix streaming, always horrible. Their movies were horrible. They had nothing there no licenses that nothing was it was atrocious. I'm like, How is this even going to go anywhere? I even did that? It was 2012 I think it was 2011 when it came out. But the impact is it I haven't seen an impact so massive on our industry. In a I mean, you could argue VHS was it was kind of like a VHS was an atomic bomb. Streaming was basically the new killer version of that 20 times Hiroshima kind of size seismic shift. And it has completely changed our business model. It is devalued the movie, because now before that, I always tell filmmakers this, I go look before our movies were worth 2499, then retail, then they were worth 399 for rental. And then when when t VOD showed up, okay, we still can get 999 and maybe 299. If your HD maybe 399. And there was still some value there. But now our movies, generally speaking, and we could talk about the details of it are worth less than a penny, per view. And before it used to be 399. So it's become almost unsustainable as a business in the independent world. Unless you go down bigger stars selling International, you have to become much better at your job where like we were talking in the 80s and 90s, a car salesman could come in and make a fortune and not really know anything about the business. Throw up a couple of ninjas, and we're ready to rock and yeah, it's just your thoughts.

Michael Ryan 24:39
I think you're right, I think but I think what the sort of secret ingredient if you like is is enormous public funding. Very clever people who have structured proper companies and that the car dealers and the VHS traders were as you said originally, you They were from nowhere. And in a way the majors shunned it because it wasn't a business that they understood or wanted to be in, it was rather tacky. Netflix and the others Amazon, whoever have made it into something massive, obviously. I mean, it is so huge. Nobody really understands it. I don't think I'm sure they do. But it's the money is utterly massive, it's mind boggling. And I think that's it, they've got a corporate structure that works. They've got banking and shareholders and investors that work. And it's become a BM off that, that it just carries on working. And I think it's kind of indestructible. It's very difficult, despite what they say, to sell a movie to Netflix. Because they, they, they want to own the world. And if you're doing what I do, which is CO production, etc, you you're you're putting together that jigsaw puzzle all the time. And there's a certain point in time when a Netflix comes in, it doesn't really work for them, because I'm gonna own the world and you say, Hang on, I've got France, Germany, Spain and Italy already in, I'm not going to kick them out because they're part of my structure. So it kind of doesn't work together. Occasionally we do big business with them on a North American deal or a U K deal or a part of Europe. And but generally it's very difficult to do that. And despite they're announcing that they're spending, you know, 25 30 billion on acquisitions, it's more, or buy that and will own it. And we'll take it off your hands guff, you know, and we'll maybe include you for a little share, which they don't. So that that, that'll carry on, I'm sure. And I'll keep making those movies, and some of them. Let's face it a bloody good. You know, we're at a time now where you're looking at the hide No,

Alex Ferrari 26:54
Stranger Stranger Things just that alone.

Michael Ryan 26:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, look at what's that that's done to the world. What was that what it did for Kate Bush,

Alex Ferrari 27:02
I was about to say, Kate Bush, I'm like, who was Kate by like, I heard of her. But now my kids are like, oh, I need to hear Kate Bush. I'm like, what? The we're in the upside down. Michael, where's the upside?

Michael Ryan 27:15
It is I mean, she, she I used to like her way back. I thought she wrote great, great music. And now she can't believe it. She's like, I don't remember. I'm a bloody grandmother for Christ's sake.

Alex Ferrari 27:27
I'm the hottest song in the world.

Michael Ryan 27:31
And by the way, it's a bloody good song.

Alex Ferrari 27:33
I just listened to it almost every day. The kids haven't played

Michael Ryan 27:37
In the background yet. I think Netflix will carry on it will change it. And only the biggest will survive because we're at a point now. I mean, early days, I suppose. But right now where people's own home economies are really struggling when you see what's happening in the UK and where people can't afford to heat their bloody homes. So the last thing in the world they're going to do is to have more subscriptions to more streaming platforms. So it's going to slim down to one or two, or three. That's all it's going to be everybody's going to have Disney as they've proved. Yeah, probably everybody's going to have Amazon and Netflix, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure about the rest. The rest will be specialized. I guess there's always that room.

Alex Ferrari 28:24
Yeah, like, I mean, HBO Max, now they bought the brand, and they're gonna combine it with Disney Channel and that discovery channel. So that's going to be a much bigger beast. Maybe like HBO might be in that mix. But everyone has prime. I mean, subprime is already there. Netflix is like Netflix. Netflix is Netflix. And you're right, Disney plus came out like a like a juggernaut. And if you have kids, disney plus is I mean, if you want Marvel, if you'd like Marvel, Star Wars, any of those other ways.

Michael Ryan 28:56
Like, imagine, if you said to your kids, you know, okay, I can't afford to go out and buy dinner. So it's either dinner, or Disney plus they

Alex Ferrari 29:07
Disney Disney plus now there's no question.

Michael Ryan 29:11
It's kind of sad, but I get it. I think that will carry on. But it's going to be interesting how I mean, we've seen how many people Netflix are laying off. You know, so if there is going to be a slimming down, I don't know how that works or how they then trim their production acquisitions budgets, or maybe they boost them? I don't know. I mean, it's my way of thinking if we are making a movie, and we're financing it, and they can buy the rights. That's a hell of a lot cheaper for them than spending they, you know, I find make a movie for 25 They're making a movie for 55. And that's just the way it is with the overhead they've got. So it makes sense to me that to carry on acquiring, I suppose I would say that, wouldn't I but it still does make business sense to me. And we still do do it. He's just that you can't rely on that. So what you can rely on is selling a few major territories with the talent, you've got the director, you've got the scripts, you've got whatever, it's always a story. And then at that point, you have the basis to go to a financier or bank and say, here's the collateral, we want to borrow a gap from you. here's the, here's the way we do it. Here's the jigsaw puzzle, that's still possible, thank God. And that's how most of the independent movies get made now. So that'll carry on, but I don't, I don't know which way we go. We, we still, why even today, we were talking to Netflix about a movie that they've just bought from us. And about, about changes in cost and all of that. So they're a good partner to have, let's face it, they got deep pockets. But it's very difficult. At the end of the day, I suppose what I've always lectured to people. And what I've always the thing I've drilled, tried to drill into people is it's all about quality, it's about the story. And if you make a good film, you make a good story, people are going to come and see it, aren't they? So I think I don't think that'll ever change. I think that this financing financing structures will change. And, you know, banks come in and out of the movie industry, like they go in and out of a supermarket. It's it's a strange business being a bank or a financial entity within the film industry, because you have to be you have to be a real expert. I mean, you know, I've, I've worked with banks, who, when they, when I've either sold my company, or they're out of the business, that you look at the bottom line that they've made, it's huge. And that's my movies. You know, they've made much more than me, but in a way they deserved it, because they've been financing it. So it still works. I mean, there are banks that are still wanting to be in it. Thank God.

Alex Ferrari 31:53
Well, let me ask you this, so and the elephant in the room in regards to what we're talking about, which is distribution in general. And I've talked heavily about, you know, distribution and protecting yourself from bad deals and all that stuff. I'm assuming in your day, you might have signed a bad deal here or there. You might have been taken advantage of I'm just guessing along your journey as a film producer and financier. So what I just love to ask you because you have this history in the business. And you know, you were there at the beginning of AFM and everything. The concept of Hollywood accounting, which is been talked about forever. And as before AFM I mean, they were doing Hollywood accounting back in the 30s. I think the second Chaplin showed up, they were doing

Michael Ryan 32:44
Off Charlie Chaplin,

Alex Ferrari 32:46
Right! Yes, why they started United Artists. That's why they started United Artists, because they got they got. So in your opinion, I mean, you're at a different level, you're dealing with, you're on a professional level, at a higher level you you have the context of different territories, you can sell and get paid. But for independent producers coming up in today's world, how are they expected to build a business that is sustainable, if they're constantly being taken advantage of, or just opportunities aren't as, as relevant as or open as they used to be?

Michael Ryan 33:17
It's very tough. I mean, reputation is one thing. Because if you're supplying product, and somebody tries to screw you, that you're not going to go back to that person, so that that's but that you have to build that that's a reputation you have to build. There's belonging to IFTA, which is the organization that organizes the American Film Market, they have a structure where they'll go out for you, and write letters to people and say, you don't do this, you're not going to be go, you'll be barred from the next American film, market, whatever, there are certain procedures that you can make. i It's very difficult, they're there. If you go through a bank, to finance your movie, they'll have a certain amount of power to because they will be borrowing against the contract that you've made with this particular person. I think it's all about background and knowledge, it research. It's very important to know who you're doing, who you're doing business with, and how they're doing. You know, if they're doing badly, are you going to go in and do a million dollar deal with them, because they're probably not going to pay you. So you've got it's all about knowledge and knowledge is that is the thing that takes you through the bad times. And I think it I think that really matters a lot. At the end of the day, if you're a little independent and you go out and making a film, you know nothing about anything and you don't use a sales agent, who then will do that job for you. It's really, really difficult. You might have some sound interference because there's a huge rainstorm going on there. Fair enough.

Alex Ferrari 34:50
No one here in England. I expect that sir.

Michael Ryan 34:52
Went from Sunday afternoon to pouring with rain and hail stones very nice. So I think it is Because I think there are certain procedures that you processes you can go through, and protections that you can give yourself. And a lot of that is choosing the right sales agent to work with. Because they'll have, you're a one time filmmaker, each film is made on its own, and you're not going to be churning them out or selling them, you know, five, six, every film market. So I think that's probably important. Just talking to the people that know how to do it, it will always happen, they'll always be a candidate that goes bankrupt without you knowing that it was never going to happen, it will be surprised to everybody, you know, city world, I mean, hello. Oh, yeah, it's it's a difficult business. But there are things that you can do, and most of it is talking to the right people. And I think if you're a first time, second time independent filmmaker, you have to go through a sales agent with a

Alex Ferrari 35:57
A good, a good a good reputation with the sales agents, because they can take you to,

Michael Ryan 36:02
Yeah, I mean, you get into trouble with, you're going to save that sales agent that just won't give you the money. And I know, lots of those occasions, you know, it's, it's a shame, and it's something that stains that our industry, but let's face it, every industry has their thieves. I mean, there's there, so you can go to Iftar. And say, I've approached this sales agent, what do you know about them, and they'll tell you, you know, so it's, it's using, all of the checks and balances are out there, you just got to use them. If you just go out there and sell your film, just sort of bits and pieces, it's gonna be a mess. So it's all about organization.

Alex Ferrari 36:47
Now, the other thing that I love about the way you're presenting your this conversation is that you look at movies as a business person, first, you're looking at it as a product, you it doesn't seem like you have emotion attached to your project, I'm sure you enjoy them, especially some of the the higher, you know, the bigger, acclaimed ones that you have as emotional. But at the end of the day, you still it's this product, and you're approaching it that way, where so many filmmakers walk into AFM or a Cannes or Venice, with emotion leading with a motion of their move, this is my baby. And nobody wants my baby. And then when the first shark shows up and go, Oh, I love you, oh, like someone likes me. And all of a sudden I'll sign whatever you want, and your movie is gone for 25 years.

Michael Ryan 37:32
That's exactly right. It's exactly you're exactly right. And when we're supposed to be there to look after those movies, we, if we foster those movies and take care of them, we hopefully will do the next one, the next one, the next one that I what I love to do. And we need people to be passionate about their product, I'm passionate about certain things that we do. At the end of the day, it has to be a sustainable business, if we're going to keep carrying on. And they've those people have to understand. If you're spending 500 $600 million on making your passion project, you aren't just going to make it for your mom and dad, you're going to make it tough for people to see it. And in order to get people to see it, you've got to get people to get it out there and give them the ability to see it. And that means selling it and selling your baby. And there might be things that you don't like, but they somebody like me might know better than them about how to market it. And you know, a lot of the time we do you know, it's like don't say that that's ridiculous. You know, here's, here's the way it should be sold. And no, I don't like that image. As I shut up.

Alex Ferrari 38:42
Let me put the poster that's going to sell this depth, which is which leads me to a great I was I was consulting a filmmaker the other day. And they had a film that was under 100,000. beautifully produced. Nice genre, not not nit not a very genre. So it was an action wasn't Zero has a little music in it. And it's kind of you know, did a little bit different, a little bit different. And they said, What do I do? How much do you think I can get for this in the marketplace? And I said, You're not gonna make any money. I had straight like straight I'm like, Look, you will not, you'll barely make if you make $1,000 I'll be impressed. And he's like, What do I do? And I go, okay, so this is what you need to do, because I got it since it's such a low budget. I think a VOD is a really great place for him to make some money, but he has no stars. So I said go out, find a star. Pay them 10,000 for the day, shoot them out in the day, get permission to put them on the thumbnail dabble them throughout the movie. So it doesn't look like he just shot him for two minutes and put them on the on the poster. Really make a part of the movie and do that and that's exactly what we're doing right now. We just locked in the actor. We're talking to the distributor who I know And we're packaging this whole thing. And that like if you have this guy in your chances of making money, there's no guarantees, but the chances of you actually see because now you have a face on that thumbnail. Yeah, that's passing through that you go, Oh, I love that guy. And, you know, unless you're Brad Pitt, and this is Brad Pitt, you know, because at the end of the day, unfortunately, where we are in today's world, it's all about the 16 by nine thumbnail flowing by in either TVOD, AVOD SVOD. It is so, so important. And filmmakers don't understand that. Would you agree with me?

Michael Ryan 40:37
Yeah, I would. Especially at that level. And remember, we have a small division called evolution pictures, and we concentrate on pictures around that level. And there always has to be a recognizable actor, otherwise it will not sell. The only way for you to sell it, if it's good is to go to film festivals and to spend money promoting it. That's going to cost you more than getting an Actor in for a few days. Right? It does pay it if you can do it. Well do it professionally. And with those sorts of movies, I think I understand the sort of maybe you're talking about it's fairly easy to do if you can get the right guy and it just gives a face to the campaign. And it works. I mean, you you can't do that. No, you know, I've got it. I've spent 7 million What do I do now? It's like, well, you're on your time?

Alex Ferrari 41:27
No, have you spent $7 million

Michael Ryan 41:31
Budget movies it gives you it gives you scope to be able to do that you can you can say to everybody, okay, stop, you know, we're gonna get this guy in. And we're going to fit him in here, here, here, here. And here. You know, your, your $7 million filmmaker was in early can't do that to my movie. But you can with this. And I think you're right, it does work. The only other way is to spend huge amounts of money on publicity.

Alex Ferrari 41:55
And even then you it's it's such an echo chamber right now that the studios are having problems show up getting awareness for their $200 million tentpole films. Yeah, that's why they that's why they buy pre IP that everybody knows, shows you like, you know, when Thor's coming out, because everybody knows Marvel, you know, the next Star Wars or the next Star Trek or the next Harry Potter? Because these are all IPs that we all know. So it becomes easier to market that. That's why something like Avatar that was done over a decade ago, was an anomaly, you know? Sure. Sure. A brand new $500 million brand new IP with no major, major stars in it. I mean, I mean, obviously Sigourney Weaver. And and Yeah, but that doesn't justify a $500 million dollar movie.

Michael Ryan 42:43
No, it's fine. It was still a pumped because the the actual techniques they were using were groundbreaking and nobody had ever thought. So would they do that? Again? Probably not. I mean, it, I can't see them spending that sort of money. Today, it just won't work on a new on a new IP.

Alex Ferrari 42:58
But like talking about the marketing, a lot of filmmakers are like, Oh, I have 30,000. I'm like, take that 30,000 Hire an actor that we all recognize. And that's your marketing budget, you've already invested in your marketing budget by hiring an actor that people recognize, because that's going to do more than $30,000 and Facebook ads, when you really don't know how to do Facebook ads?

Michael Ryan 43:20
No, you're absolutely right. And it will it will appeal to those distributors that distribute those sorts of movies. And the first question will be well, who's in it? And you know, if you ain't got the one person that they might be looking at, then you're dead. So you're right, is the ideal way to structure it. And if only they thought about it in the first week, they have, they've thought about it in time now,

Alex Ferrari 43:40
I knew there was this one movie I worked on when I was doing post production supervision where I was posting on a movie. And I was fascinated to see this that they had one what the main star who was not the star of the movie, but the face that we all know, right? And they shot him out in one day. And he they were in they were in a parking lot. So it was the way that he was like the informant or something and that the cops had to keep coming back to, to this to the garage to meet with them. So he was a beautiful structure. He was dabbled throughout the entire movie, so you don't feel gypped and then the rest of the movie, which was very well produced and very well shot with actors that we just don't know, go worked out great. And because his face is on the cover, sold. So like that easily. And that's what filmmakers don't understand. When I try to guess yell from the top of the top of the hill, please hire somebody that we recognize even my short films that I did as a director 10 years ago at Robert Forster in it. They had Lance Hendrickson in it. I had, you know other faces that people recognize that it gave something. And by the way, if you're trying to get into film festivals, film festivals, love having faces and stars. It is They're movies because they're in the asses and seats business.

Michael Ryan 45:03
Yeah, you got you got last last Fredrickson who said, who says, you know? Sure I'll come you know, and you say to say to the festival director, I can get him to come for three or four days. Great. You're in.

Alex Ferrari 45:15
Can you fly him out? Can you fly out? Put them up and last like, yeah, sure, I'll come out.

Michael Ryan 45:20
That's the way that's the way the business works. A lot of people don't understand that. It's that's a fairly simple structure. You get him to agree to go to the festival. He'll probably have a great time.

Alex Ferrari 45:30
Treat them like they'll treat them. Oh, like, royalty.

Michael Ryan 45:33
Yeah, he'll be he'll be treated like Brad Pitt, Brad Pitt, which doesn't always happen as we know it's it still works. And it's still it's still that tub thumping thing is back to the cannon boys. You know, they they did it all the time. And it worked every single time.

Alex Ferrari 45:47
You know, Michael Dukakis just showed up, and Chuck Norris just showed up.

Michael Ryan 45:53
There you go. I mean, we did it. Way back. Oh, God longterm. The first Highlander which we did, yeah. Yeah. Turned out to be a classic movie. But we, we what was so strange to me, because it was, you know, we had a Frenchman playing a Scotsman. And we and we had Sean Connery, a Scotsman playing a Spanish nobleman. But we we, we

Alex Ferrari 46:20
Michael, Michael, there could only be one. There's only could be one.

Michael Ryan 46:25
You see, you see how well that campaign worked. That we needed Connery and he was going on. Anyway, we agreed, and it was half a million dollars a day for five days for contouring. Yeah. Any any any days after that was a further half million. So we said, Okay, fine. And we did it. Obviously pre sold. The movie did very well. And during the shooting of the movie, there was a technical problem. And we needed him for two extra days. It was another million dollars.

Alex Ferrari 46:57
I mean, it's good money if you could get it.

Michael Ryan 46:59
But it, it worked. And you know, if we hadn't had him, it wouldn't have been half the film. It was, you know, and he's really worthwhile. And you know, the guy was great. And then he Sean Connery. She was Sean Connery. Exactly. And the out of that. I got a call from a Japanese advertising agency for some Suntory whisky. And they said, We want him as you know, in His Highness the costume, which had magnificent ties whiskey. So I went to him and said, you know, what do you think he said, I don't do adverts. Okay. So I went back and they said, Tell him it's a million dollars. And he said, No, no, no, don't get out of bed for that million dollars. Anyway, we this went on over a week. In the end, they in the end, they paid $5 million and and the the stipulation was they wouldn't speak. He wouldn't have to drink the whiskey. And the only place it could play was in Japan and Southeast Asia. And they said yes. And it must have worked because it's still playing the bloody ad every time. Every time I go to Japan. So kind of a guy like that. And he doesn't drink the whiskey. I guess for him, it was quite a nice experiment.

Alex Ferrari 48:23
Do you remember the remember? I don't know if you know this. This is just a side note. Do you remember the 80s Madonna was hired by Pepsi to promote? You remember that whole story where she she went on the set? And they're like, Okay, not drink the Pepsi and like, I'm not drinking with ABS. But we need you to drink the Pepsi. We hired you like, you hired me. But no one told me I had to drink it. And she they scrapped the whole thing and they still paid her like $10 million or five whatever it was. They didn't do it because they didn't do it because she wouldn't drink it. She was so we I mean, she I don't know why she did that. But she knew that she had that power and she just wielded it. And she just got paid. And they never because contractually it never said that she had to drink that Pepsi.

Michael Ryan 49:07
I'll hold on to how many lawyers got fired over that.

Alex Ferrari 49:11
Oh, lawyers and executives. Oh my god, are you kidding me? That whole thing was

Michael Ryan 49:16
I knew about the Pepsi thing. I didn't know that they canceled the whole thing because of that.

Alex Ferrari 49:20
I don't think I mean, they might have done something else later. But I know that spot was changed like you know, because I started off in commercials and that was legendary is one of those legendary stories. You're like,

Michael Ryan 49:30
She's probably she probably said I only drink Coca Cola.

Alex Ferrari 49:35
I only drink Coke. Now if you want to put the coke in the Pepsi can I'll do that for me. Imagine you imagine. So with the with AFM. I wanted I wanted to ask you now as you obviously one of the cofounders of and you've seen a change over the years, I mean in the in the glorious golden ages of the 80s when how many days was it was like 10 days or something like

Michael Ryan 49:58
That was like, was ridiculous. It was far too long.

Alex Ferrari 50:00
It was long and yeah, the money was flowing. Yeah, yeah,

Michael Ryan 50:04
You could do what you like. And you know, you'd stay in fancy hotels in Santa Monica or, you know, I'd stay in the Bel Air hotel, we ridiculous things to do. And now we've cut it down to I think it's, By five plus a building day or something like that, right? Exactly. Same dry down, is the right length, people will go home at the weekend, you know, it's just in the mid week period, it's much more much more doable. I think. Now, I've looked at the numbers. And there's a lot of people surprise me actually be thinking about the economic world at the moment. But it's building quite nicely. All the bigger companies have signed up for attending. So it might be, I think it would be a nice surprise, I think, you know, the Cannes Film Film Festival this year was wonderful, because it was like, going back to those those hay days of can, even though the money wasn't falling all over the place. But people were there and people were doing visits and people enjoying themselves. I think that's the thing. This is a hard business. to somewhere like Santa Monica, you'd quite like to get out and go and have a nice meal somewhere. And that's on the beach. Yeah, it's part of what we do. Otherwise, we'd do it in a boring exhibition center somewhere,

Alex Ferrari 51:24
All right, you'd be in Vegas somewhere or you'd be in some way,

Michael Ryan 51:27
And you'd lose all of the Hollywood niche about it, you know, just wouldn't, it just wouldn't be the same. And we find that a lot of the international clients will say, don't take it downtown. Don't Don't take it anywhere else. We go to Hollywood once, maybe twice a year. And if we want to go when we go to Hollywood, we you know, we want to go and see the people that we normally see plus go to the FM so that's where it's going to stay provided that,

Alex Ferrari 51:53
You know, the first year I went to AFM. It was so fascinating. I was I was there covering it for for the show. And it was before I did I started doing talks there and things and I just remember walking into the hotel, and I looked up and I saw a giant banner that was Mike Tyson versus Steven Seagal. And I said, oh, oh, I understand where I am now. And I'm like, Okay, this is and that's and then filmmakers come in expecting to see art and like, this is not art. You are not in an art place anymore. This is business 100% Business. Don't bring your art film here. Don't bring your backyard. You know, you know, personal film here. That's not where this is, you know, unless you've got Steven Seagal fighting Mike Tyson, in your personal drama. No one cares. No one cares.

Michael Ryan 52:51
Like I remember.

Alex Ferrari 52:52
Oh, yeah, they made it. Oh, no, that movie came out. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's even if it's yeah, I will talk about some stuff that he's that has enough stuff talking about him. And I thought, let's not, let's not let's just leave that as is. But look, but look at Mike Tyson, which is it's such an interesting guy. He's an actor, but he's one of the most famous human beings on the planet. And now he's like, I'm gonna do action movies.

Michael Ryan 53:17
You're gonna turn up for that? I mean, of course they will. They're fascinated by

Alex Ferrari 53:22
There was the movie. He was a bad guy fighting. Oh, God, I forgot the kung fu master from China. But he's a legendary actor. He's up there with Jackie Chan. And he fought Mike Tyson in a beautiful each choreographed fight sequence and I was just like, see, that's just it, just you know, there. That's the kind of movies you're going to find at AFM. You're not going to find these arthouse films, you may find some depending on the distributor that might be interested in that. But generally speaking, it's all about money, selling territories, making deals.

Michael Ryan 53:54
You're exactly right. And it's the deal making that people like me go for because I don't do you know, shark movies or whatever. I just don't do that. Not sure it made us for you, sir. I know Paul who pulls Paul who makes those movies and he makes a lot of money and he does a brilliant job and they're really funny. I can't do that. It's not me. So and you'll find and that's the problem with publicizing the AFM you know variety will go in and see all this stuff sharks and Mike Tyson's and Steven to girls. But it shouldn't be because there's a business there. And if you look around some if you look around the attendee companies, the people who are who are exhibiting their this have serious bloody companies they're so they're so so what what happens is that people will turn up and they'll buy those little bits and pieces, you know, the Sharknado is and everything but at the same time that they're they're there to do business with a 24 They're there to do business with the bigger companies that make quality movies. And that's still going on because when it when we formed it is the the the sort of 12 1314 companies that were the original investors and the original creators of it, were very classy companies, there was no schlock them. But the slot came in because they saw an opportunity. And it's still part of our business. And it's a legitimate part of the business. And I, I kind of cherish it, because I love those short movies that man, it's a great idea. And they've made, I don't know, six or seven or eight,

Alex Ferrari 55:29
I really was I saw like the priest, that was a velociraptor, the alligator that turned into like, I mean, it's just, it's, it's fun. Sharknado spawned an entire genre. It's these these films. And then there's the asylum boys who are are basically the the the children of the cannon boys there that

Michael Ryan 55:52
It's a good company. It's not it, but they're doing it really well. And nothing wrong with that. And as we said much earlier on, you've got enough of that stuff bubbling away. And there's bound to be the quality filmmakers coming out of it. Or you cherry pick those, you've got another business. So it does. I'm glad that the bigger GM and GM are coming, you know, they're all signing up now. And I'm really pleased because it means that it'll carry on and I, you know, we didn't build it to just have a little, you know, a little market that runs for a few years. There's a 40 odd years, and I think it will survive, and I think it will carry on. And I'm just pleased to see that quality companies are supporting it.

Alex Ferrari 56:33
So you'll get everything from asylum to a 24. And everything in between. And that's because that's filmmaking. I mean, there was Roger Roger Corman was around for quite some time. And he was making very interesting films, to say the least.

Michael Ryan 56:48
When I was first chairman of the ERV Iftar. Roger was on my board. And I'm thinking, hang on a minute. Roger Corman is on the board that I'm chairman. Oh, that's ridiculous. But he he was, I tell you, I could sit there and listen to those stories forever. The man

Alex Ferrari 57:05
Oh, my. Oh, my. And you want to talk about filmmakers?

Michael Ryan 57:08
Yes, spawned all of the guy that I know he really is the godfather. All of it is extraordinary man. Softly spoken really classy. You know, I found there was it was a big board at that point. It was about 20 people and they hang on his every word because he very quietly spoken. They sit and listen. rather different from Lloyd Kaufman.

Alex Ferrari 57:29
Or you read my mind. I was about to say Lloyd a little bit different approach, Lloyd. But you know, I've spoken to Lloyd on the show. And, and man, I tell you like he's an interesting guy, because he makes those kinds of trauma esque films. Yeah. But when you go back and watch like, Toxic Avenger, the first one that was shot on 35 released theatrically and had a social commentary to it.

Michael Ryan 57:54
Toxic Avenger was really, you know, it was a socially aware picture. Not Not that I really appreciated it because I had an office at the Carlton Hotel at that point. Now, during Ken Oh, God, he organized these bloody great big parades of all these monsters. And it was awful every day twice or three times a day. They'd stand in front of my

Alex Ferrari 58:22
But he made but he was able to do what it I mean, I love him. God bless him and he is able to do what he's able to do and, and you can't take anything away from from him.

Michael Ryan 58:35
He speaks God knows how many languages he speaks Cantonese.

Alex Ferrari 58:37
I mean, he's so smart. He's He's fascinating is an intellect. Yeah. That's what's so fascinating about someone like Lloyd it and like when I talked to him, I was like, yeah, he's like ivy league. You know, he has an Ivy League education. Oh, yeah. He's extremely intelligent. But yet, he's like, Lloyd. He plays this part. It's just fascinating to me.

Michael Ryan 59:00
It was in the same year. I think it was Yale. But same year as George Bush, right.

Alex Ferrari 59:07
He told me that yeah,

Michael Ryan 59:09
We kind of said don't tell anybody that.

Alex Ferrari 59:13
He was. He was he shot behind the scenes of Rocky. I didn't know that. He actually was there during the step scene, because there was the first time they were using the steadicam. And I'm in a big movie right before shining. And he was there shooting it. And then he's like, oh, yeah, MGM just called me up and they're doing some new release. And they were asking for my footage. So I had to go into the archives, and find all this footage I shot of, of that stuff. I was like, wow, I mean, like, what is going on? He kills me. No, he's fantastic. But Michael, listen, I'm going to ask you a few questions to ask all of my guests. Well, first of all, before we get to that, when is the AFM how can people sign up? Where do they go?

Michael Ryan 59:59
By can go to the AFM website. I think it's American film market.com. They can sign up there. It starts on the first of November for I think five days first and sixth. That's right. And it's very simple. And we've kept the price down it for individuals registering. If you're a producer, and you've got something interesting and you want to package it, that's a reason to go. You'll find people like me sitting there. And you know, why not come and say, Oh, by the way, I've got this thing. I might say not now. Thanks. But there's everybody you will want to see, from filmmakers, to bankers to equity investors that everybody's there. So it's up to you to take that opportunity. It's really not very expensive. If you join, if you pay your full entry price, you'll get access to over 100 panels and speeches and stuff like that. So you're, and that's really worth it just for that. I mean,

Alex Ferrari 1:01:02
I know I'm doing I'm doing some of the panels, it's so valuable. The stuff that

Michael Ryan 1:01:07
I think for anybody who wants to make a film has made a film is in the middle of making a film. Just go. And even if you're just soaking up the atmosphere of it there. It's just worth it. And yeah, I mean, there's so many people that you can see in in five or six days. So I think it's worth it and easy to buy a ticket.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:28
And it's so educational. Just even if you walk the halls and see what people are doing and selling and how they're marketing. It is such I always tell filmmakers who haven't gone to AFM, go to FM just take the day pass and walk around. And that alone will show you what the marketplace looks like before independent film in the world that we live in.

Michael Ryan 1:01:50
You're absolutely right. It just changes your whole focus. If you think you have your tunnel vision, making your movie don't do that. Go just go and see how this business really works, and how it's financed and how it sustains itself. And it is fascinating. And I the ticket price alone is worth it for the panels and discussions. And you can sit there all day learning stuff. I'd be like you I'm on a few Alex. And it you see the people that turn up something Wow. That's amazing. You know, they've got these panelists, and it's great, great people, the people as an independent filmmaker, you won't have access to as an individual, where you can sit there and listen to what they're saying. And I think it's great. It's, it's really valuable information.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:34
Now, I'm going to ask you those few questions. Ask all my guests. All right, what what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film industry or in life,

Michael Ryan 1:02:44
I suppose it's a film film business centric, it's the time that you should say, Stop, whether it be in the middle of the process or whatever, you've come to a point where you're trying try and try and try and try. And the best thing to do is to say, You know what, let's stop right now. So one of the one of the finances might say, well, but we're going to lose 100,000, we said, well, if we carry on like this, we're going to lose 1.1 million. So is it best to stop here. And that took me a long time. And I've done it only thankfully, on two or maybe three occasions where you get to a point where you're pushing a square peg into a round hole, it's just not gonna work. All of the actors are saying, No, you're compromising in every single place, whether it be the production assistant, or the accountant or the designer, and the actors and you should just stop. Don't do it. That's that. It's a brave thing to do. It took me a long time to be able to do it.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:52
So being able to be brave enough to cut you know, cut the line and go. Yeah, very, very good advice. Now, you see here, three of your favorite films of all time.

Michael Ryan 1:04:06
I knew you're gonna say that. I think Cuckoo's Nest probably is usually in support of my list. Yeah. Second of in the it's probably. I mean, this is really crass. But it's probably Citizen Kane, simply because you can look at it and think that's perfect. And thirdly, I don't know, interesting. Very difficult to choose, isn't it? I think I think the shining is probably

Alex Ferrari 1:04:50
I literally have a cinematographer of the shining up behind me. I'm a huge, huge Goomer Yeah, that's a huge huge Kubrick fan. And that is um, masterpiece to say,

Michael Ryan 1:05:01
I mean, I, I just I think that's probably quite a good three.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:06
That's that's a solid three, sir. That's a solid three. And lastly, what advice would you give to a filmmaker starting out in the business today?

Michael Ryan 1:05:15
I think story is really the basis of everything that you're going to do. And if it's not, if it doesn't hang together as a good story that anybody you're pitching the story to would sit and listen, if you don't have that you're never gonna have an audience or watch it anyway. So why still? Why put yourself through all that misery? I think story is, is it and also there are two parts to it. One is the story in the first place in the very first place. And almost just behind that, Squeaks in just second is, what's the audience? Who are you making it for? And that's, I find, I mean, I do love film schools and stuff like that. And so many people don't ask themselves that question. Who's gonna see this? Right? And, and how many films have you watched thinking? Why the fuck did they make that? What's the point? Oh, my God, so many. What were they thinking? Who in Earth would want to go and see that I literally the first, the first sort of rounds of you know, when you do those speed dating things at film schools, and you have like 20 meetings in a day and this post I remember, I remember a couple of times when I was pitched. This the most of Picchu the story, but you don't know anything about it. There was one I went to the Galway Film Festival and I had to Swedish director, producer team. And it was basically the pitch was it's a it's a murder story. And it contains, it's about a brother and sister and it's incestuous relationship. Oh, good.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:07
Stuff. very marketable.

Michael Ryan 1:07:08
Okay, fine. Okay. Thanks. Next it. There are some very strange things.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:14
It's Chinatown. And it's not is what you're saying?

Michael Ryan 1:07:17
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you really have to struggle to find out what the hell it's all about, and why you would make it in the first place. So I think those two things are a story because they really have to do with that story. And secondly, what's the audience? I don't know why people don't want anybody wouldn't make something without figuring that out.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:37
Oh, that's a that's very simple. It's ego thing.

Michael Ryan 1:07:41
You know, it's fascinating to me, so it's gonna be fascinating to everybody.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:45
Yeah, I mean, look, even people like Spielberg, Scorsese. Coppola have fallen into that trap, where they think I can make a movie. And everyone's gonna love it, because I love it. And then you look at something like 1941. And you go, Oh,

Michael Ryan 1:08:02
1941 was the one I would cite as well,

Alex Ferrari 1:08:06
Right! I mean, Spielberg has a pretty flawless filmography, generally speaking, but 9041 was that he's like, I could do anything. I can even do comedy. Let's bring the biggest comedy star we're going to do this is gonna be great. And it's pointed a die on.

Michael Ryan 1:08:23
It was shocking. Did shock.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:25
And then and then then again, something like cats.

Michael Ryan 1:08:29
Oh, Christ, I reminded me it's the worst experience of my life. I and I was one of the my wife at the time was an investor in a Vita. So she got invited into all these different so I went to the very first premiere of cats onstage, not cats. The cats the musical, it was amazing. And then too many years later, get to go and see that movie. It was excruciating.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:04
Just really the best the best quote ever for cats, the best review, it's the worst thing to happen the cats to cats and dogs. And that was like the best. The best. There was a Twitter review and I was like, That is brilliant. And I was like, when something like cats comes along, and it doesn't come it comes once in a generation really? Where you have Oscar winners around all the money in the world. Everyone is just moving forward. And it comes out being so bad with so many good people in it and behind it. Yeah, it's not her. It's really it's the Heaven's Gate of

Michael Ryan 1:09:43
Exactly that.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:45
But I actually only saw 20 minutes I couldn't I couldn't pass the roach dancing scene, or the cat anus is flying around. I'm like, what, what is what is what is going on?

Michael Ryan 1:09:58
Have a look at anatomically at a cat, I mean the tails growing out of there ourselves. I mean, it's

Alex Ferrari 1:10:08
Did you see Did you see when the VFX weren't finished on Judi Dench, and like her her digital wristwatch, you could see her watch or something like that, because it didn't finish the V effects.

Michael Ryan 1:10:18
And Judi Dench curled up in a cat basket. I mean, really? Like,

Alex Ferrari 1:10:24
I can't I mean, it's I maybe one day, you know, I'll take some sort of substance and watch the entire thing. But I just can't I could I just like, I can't do this to myself. I'll watch. I'll go back and watch the room, which is arguably one of the worst films ever made. But yet, it's so bad. It's good.

Michael Ryan 1:10:43
Yeah, well, there are those but this was just scruciating the bed and I again, I went to the bloody premiere, so I couldn't leave.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:52
You were stuck there.

Michael Ryan 1:10:54
And it might go worse and worse.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:57
Michael, it has been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you for all your your your championing of filmmakers and films over the course of your career and trying to help filmmakers make some money.

Michael Ryan 1:11:11
That's what we're all trying to do. You know, it's it's great to be in this business. It's great to have an artistic bent, but Christ you've got to make some money somewhere. I'm trying to I'm trying to help them do that

Alex Ferrari 1:11:23
As am i Sir, as am I thank you my friend.

Michael Ryan 1:11:27
Thanks a lot.

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Unreal Engine: How I Made a 10-Minute Animated Short with Virtually No Budget

On June 1st, 2020, freshly unemployed due to the sudden widespread closure of just about every movie and TV production in the world – I’m a film visualisation (previs and postvis) supervisor, more about that shortly – I decided to use my newfound abundance of time and finally take the plunge into Unreal Engine and use it to try to make a little film. 

Nothing too ambitious. Three minutes, a couple of characters, no dialogue, one set. Keep it simple, you know the way.

Two years later I finished it. It was ten minutes long with five speaking characters and three settings. 

This is the story of how I made PRAZINBURK RIDGE

Writing

I’ll be honest, I fancy myself as a writer. Always did. My brother’s one, so it might run in the family. I’ve been writing screenplays for well over a decade, I’ve had a couple of 8s on The Black List and a couple of decent competition results, and an expired option on a script.

So, on June 1st 2020, having resolved to make a film, I was exploring in my head the potential settings and scenarios that would suit a film in Unreal. I would need a setting for which there would be plenty of assets (3D models, essentially) available online – a setting that would be familiar territory for a computer game, since I was going to be using a game engine.

Sci-fi’s the obvious one, another is Fantasy. There’s countless assets like this available, and you can make it up as you go along, not worrying about things being correct to a particular period – which is handy when you’re on a budget.

But I had no story for a sci-fi film, I’d just be making something up for the sake of it – which  I’m not above, don’t get me wrong. I just wanted to make something. But I didn’t have a story at all yet, so unless anything else came to mind, I figured I’d just do a short sci-fi action piece.

A war film, on the other hand… now there was an interesting idea. Not only was 1917 very fresh in my head (and on my resumé, as I was postvis supervisor on it for a little while), but there would be lots of assets on the Marketplace as it’s well-worn ground for games.

By chance, my aforementioned brother, Steve, had just written his second book that was soon to be published – a biography of Douglas Clark, a British rugby star who enlisted in World War I and ended up getting a Military Medal for bravery. I’d proof-read the book for him and remembered a couple of very exciting war sequences. I had a quick chat with him to get the nod of approval and then dug out my dog-eared A4 print of his first draft, scouring it for something that would make a good short film. And there it was, right in the middle of his book – the incident at Prazinburk Ridge, Duggy Clark’s last battle, in 1917.

Suddenly, I didn’t just have a film I could make, I had a film I knew I should make.

Previs

This can’t be a guide on how to do exactly what I did – we’d be here a long time, and I probably didn’t do it all correctly anyway. (There’s lots of guides on learn.unrealengine.com for those looking to get a taste for how it all works. I can’t promise it’s an easy thing to do if you’ve no background in 3D graphics but I can promise you that it is by far the easiest of all 3D graphics programs to get into from scratch.)

No, I want to talk more broadly about creative choices that would apply for someone making a film in any medium, and how the process of making this film fundamentally changed my life.

On early script pages you can see dialogue changes, thumbnail sketches, shot numbers, camera positions being planned…

Outside of loose thumbnails sketched on the script pages, I didn’t want to storyboard anything. I just wanted to get in there and start making shots and sequences, that’s the part of my job as a previs supervisor I love the most. 

Before we go further, you may be asking, “what’s previs?”

Good question. Previs is a part of film pre-production where we basically animate and plan action sequences ahead of time, trying to nail the sequence before a penny is spent on the shoot (which gets very expensive very quickly). Here’s my reel from my 11-month stint on JURASSIC WORLD: FALLEN KINGDOM to demonstrate.

The raptor on the roof shot is still my favourite thing I’ve ever done in previs…

So anyway, I downloaded Unreal Engine, and got to work. Now, given my background (I made my first computer animation when I was 11, I’ve got a degree in Visualisation, 15 years in CGI, including 5 years as an animator and the last 5 in previs), Unreal came fairly naturally to me, and after a week or two I’d got some temp characters, a rough level, a drivable WW1 truck, and had a pretty exciting sequence coming together…

I should point out that I’ve been using Maya for 15 years and I can’t make something like this, this quickly, in Maya. That’s the power of Unreal. I’d barely started using it.

It’s worth noting that this footage, while still looking better than anything I can do in Maya, still doesn’t look as good as I wanted it to. In my head, this film should look like an almost-photoreal video game cinematic. I wanted it to look like Battlefield One, but already I knew that was unattainable by myself. I’d need help. 

So I applied for a MegaGrant, which is money Epic (who make UE) give out to select creators and developers, including filmmakers, who are pushing the envelope in the engine. This would pay me for some of my time, bridging the gap in finances until the pandemic ended, and would give me a budget to hire some additional help to raise the quality. And in my naïve optimism, I assumed I’d get it. They said a decision would take 3 months. And so I got on with making previs for the entire film in the meantime.

The first edit in Adobe Premiere, July 3rd, 2020.

The first version didn’t take long, a few weeks, and I screened it for my parents and then-fiancée (now wife) once lockdown ended. They entertained it gamely, but it was a dull old affair in the first half, full of expository dialogue and with an overall lack of energy. To be fair to myself, the second half was largely the same as it is now, just without any polish. 

I also showed it to a fellow previs supervisor, who said he got ‘lost’ in the first half, so I knew there was an issue there.

In my head it was obvious – the truck is here, the ammo dump is there, and the lads are moving munitions between the two. But I was learning a valuable lesson, that even when you’re working alone, filmmaking must be a collaborative effort to some degree! Somebody needs to be able to see the work at its infant stages and say, “I don’t get that bit.” 

And that’s the beauty of previs. More than storyboards, where everything is static, being able to see the action play through, even rough and ugly, can really help shape decisions. I re-worked this section a few times over to make sure the story and action were crystal clear.

Another friend (a film editor) saw it and was very enthusiastic about the parts where it transitions to the rugby pitch. In this early version, the film started at the artillery battery, with the “we need more ammo!” line, and the first time we were on the pitch was after Duggy gets hit by shrapnel. My friend suggested this would carry more weight if we knew Duggy was previously a rugby star, and maybe it was worth adding a scene earlier to give the audience that information.

I loved the idea, and went about crafting a new opening with Duggy in his war uniform, saying a silent goodbye to the hallowed sports ground. But the thing that was still missing at this stage was the speech that Duggy recalls. That idea hadn’t come to me yet.

Dressed in his war uniform, Duggy says goodbye to Fartown, the rugby pitch where he played for Huddersfield…

The summer was coming to an end, TV and film productions were starting back up. My free time working on this was almost over. I’d bashed the previs into a pretty decent shape, there was a good film in there, it just needed lifting from its primordial state into something altogether more polished. And to do that, I still needed help, and a budget.

And then I got an e-mail from Epic’s MegaGrants team – they hadn’t made a decision and needed more time. They didn’t specify how long.

With work about to start back up, I decided I’d have to put the project down for a while. But I needed something to show for three months of work, so I edited together a quick trailer. Then I dressed up the shots that were in the trailer – I only picked shots that didn’t show character faces much, as they were all still intended to be temporary. I gave the characters stand-in outfits that would pass for World War I uniforms to the untrained eye, and I added rain, effects and other eye candy.

I went back to work, and in doing so I was able to ask my VFX supervisor to take a look at the whole film – the previs for it anyway. “It’s really great,” he said. “Just get it voice-overed and put it out.”

That suggestion rattled around my brain as the following year rolled on. If only it was that simple! I wanted it to look better… like a Battlefield One cinematic!

Research

Autumn 2020 was getting close, and with it came a brief window to travel. My brothers-in-law (the husbands of my wife’s two sisters) were planning a trip to Ypres, near Passchendaele, it turned out, to look at war sites. I had no idea they were war history buffs.

I hadn’t been such a buff, when all this started. There seemed to be something altogether morbid about it, and I’m a pacifist, as was Duggy – I’d always thought an interest in war suggested an interest in going to war.

At the behest of a friend, I listened to Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History series about WW1, and was completely enthralled. I consumed any WW1 movies I could find, and picked up books about it. Pretty soon that also expanded to WW2 as well.

In Ypres, we stood at the Menin Gate while the Last Post was played each night. We looked at graves of our fellow Irish, Scottish and Yorkshire men (as we are each in turn) who never went home. We walked through craters and old trenches that still remain, and looked at rusting shell cases that still lay on the ground, over a hundred years after they fell there. It was very moving.

And, doing some detective work, I found Prazinburk Ridge, (Frezenberg Ridge, actually – the name was miscommunicated by the British soldiers and recorded incorrectly in Duggy’s diary) and the site of Duggy’s last stand.   

I learned new things that affected the film in some ways. For example, the shot of a German soldier in his trench spotting Duggy’s truck through binoculars, I soon realised, was impossible – he would have been in a spotting balloon, high above the battlefield. Gas masks weren’t as I’d imagined. They had a satchel associated with them, and a pipe that fed into it.

A German spotting balloon. I bought this 3D model from Turbosquid. I hoped to rig it and simulate its ropes shaking in the wind and the rain, but ran out of time so it remained a static object.

In my spare time, here and there, I added these bits and pieces to the film. That’s actually pretty common in previs – as other departments do their work, things are re-designed, and we feed the updates into our work, and adjust as we go to accommodate them.

I’d also had the idea about the stirring rugby speech – a real speech that was given to Duggy’s British rugby team before a big game – to the opening scenes, and have him recall it later. I updated the script and felt that this new addition would really make the film sing.

But as time wore on, with no sign of any budget, I began to think that the film would never be finished. I stopped even the sporadic work I had been doing on it and left the project where it was, like an empty shell on a battlefield long after the war has ended, left to rust.  

I made other, less ambitious projects, in Unreal. I worked on more films as a previs supervisor, wrote more scripts, and Prazinburk Ridge slipped from my mind, another unfinished project destined to go on the pile.

Just before Christmas 2021, I got the inevitable email from Epic to inform me that my application for funding was being turned down. By this point I had lost all hope anyway, and my finances had recovered from loss of work during the pandemic. It was the last nail in the coffin for Prazinburk. 

That was that, then.

Polish

By Spring 2022, I was frustrated. After all these years of trying, I still hadn’t been able to complete a proper short film. I found myself in the same place I was back in June 2020 – trying to think of a project I could make in Unreal that would constitute a proper short film. Something that could get into festivals. Like Prazinburk Ridge could have, if it could only be finished.

Then I saw the trailer for Richard Linklater’s latest film, Apollo 101⁄2, which is actually rotoscoped, not animated, for the most part. But the effect is the same – it looks like a type of traditional animation. And a thought hit me –

Unreal can do that.

In CG terms, the process is called cel-shading. I’ve never been a huge fan of it, but Unreal can do it, and then it wouldn’t matter that half of my assets, including my characters, aren’t up to the standard of game cinematics. Everything would be cel-shaded, like a great equaliser. And if I did the film on “2s” (an old animation term meaning each frame is repeated twice, so there’s 12 drawings per second and not 24) then my motion-captured animation would be much easier to edit.

Applying cel-shading to everything seemed a bit overkill, though. There was already a slightly stylised feel to the project, the sky seemed painterly, in a way. Maybe I could lean into that. I applied a kuwahara filter to everything, which gave it that nice painterly look, and then I applied cel-shading to only specific things in each shot, exactly like in a classic cartoon where everything that moves is animated on a cel, placed upon a painted background.

Shot comparisons between first pass of previs (left) and finished film (right).

It worked. It even looked quite… nice.

I set myself a deadline. My wedding was approaching in July, and it would be great to have the film done and dusted by then.

Every spare moment I had, I spent on the film now. I got the train to Yorkshire to record a voice-over artist I wanted, and on the journey I edited audio from another actor I recorded over Zoom. I enlisted my old bandmate, Mike Payne, to compose an original score. While on my stag (bachelor party) weekend I took my laptop and worked, only stopping to party when it was appropriate. Assets I needed previously that I couldn’t find had become available to buy, including a crowd system for my rugby stadium, and a nicely accurate WW1 uniform. I ingested them hungrily, and let them proliferate through the shots. I threw out parts of the latest script that were going to take too long, including another return to the rugby ground right at the end of the film. I decided against spending time doing things that weren’t going to add to the story, like simulating the truck blowing apart at the end.

On the morning of the day I’d set as a release date, I was still tweaking shots where I could.

After the wedding, on holiday in Spain, I got my first festival decision. The film was selected for the Wigan & Leigh Film Festival, not far from where Duggy was born in Cumberland. I was over the moon.

In the end, the extra gestation time, and lack of budget, helped the film. If Epic had given me the grant in 2020, the film wouldn’t have been as good. If they’d given it to me in 2021, it wouldn’t have covered everything it needed to, as the project had grown in scope so much, so it would have probably looked like a second-rate game cinematic, and not something unique – which it is now, I think.

But mostly, that extra 18 months gave me the time to mature as a filmmaker, as both a writer and director. And it gave me the experience and knowledge in Unreal to actually execute a vision. 

The moral of the story, I guess, is that everyone gets told “no” when they’re starting out. But, think about what Duggy would do: “It’s my truck, sir,” he says in the film. “I’ll bring it back.”

Go do it anyway.

Written by Martin Bell
Official Site: yescommissioner.com

 

Ultimate Guide To Sam Mendes And His Directing Techniques

AMERICAN BEAUTY (1999)

Some directors share their development with the public over the course of a lifetime.  More rare, however, is the director who arrives on the scene fully formed, seemingly coming out of nowhere.  Sam Mendes is just such a director, and in twelve short years, he has already cultivated an impressive body of work that will live on in the cinematic consciousness for quite some time.

My first experience with a Mendes film was 2002’s ROAD TO PERDITION.  I sought out the film after seeing a trailer for it in the theatre, having been incredibly compelled by its imagery and tone.  I remember being enamored by the artistry and mastery of craft on display, and had no idea it was only Mendes’ second feature.

My awareness of Mendes as a director wouldn’t mature until college, when a freshman creative writing class had 1999’s AMERICAN BEAUTY on the syllabus.  It was only after seeing that film that I realized Mendes was a significant force to be reckoned with in cinema.

Filmmaking comes as something of a second career for Mendes, who already had an impressive body of work under his belt in the English theater scene.  A graduate of Peterhouse, Cambridge, Mendes became known as an accomplished stage director, helming productions like CABARET, OLIVER!, and GYPSY, while attracting seasoned and highly-respected stars of the stage and screen.  It was only a matter of time until cinema came knocking.

Due to his background in the theater, there’s a distinct “stage”-y character to his film direction, as if the edges of the frame were just another proscenium wall.  Character and story are front-and-center, with the immediacy of theater’s live performance, but with none of the showboating or exaggeration.

His films are intensely personal, subtle, and delicate, yet strong in their convictions and dramaturgy.  It’s hard to discern exactly who his cinematic influences are, if only because it’s clear that he draws on a entirely different set of influences from another medium to inform his direction.

Stanley Kubrick and Mike Nichols seem like safe bets, but only because he draws from them almost unilaterally for very specific projects.  His own style is more formalist, understated, and classical.  Like Kubrick, Mendes is very precise and economical.  Like Nichols, he revels in character and the natural humorous moments that occur, in addition to the serious stuff.

Mendes is one of the lucky few filmmakers who was lauded with the highest industry honors on his first time out.  He had previous experience in directing for the screen, helming television adaptions for CABARET (1993), and COMPANY (1996), but 1999’s AMERICAN BEAUTY was his first legitimately cinematic excursion.

Springing from the mind of screenwriter Alan Ball, AMERICAN BEAUTY is many things.  It’s a phenomenon hailing from humble beginnings.  It’s a dark satire on American suburban ennui.  It’s a coming-of-age story about the loss of innocence.  It’s a cautionary tale about the dangers of temptation.

It’s a brooding murder mystery.  There’s a lot of themes at work, but Mendes masterfully blends it all together into a tone that’s appropriate and cohesive.  For me, the most resonant theme in the film is the regression of traditional masculinity.

The film was part of a growing chorus that bemoaned the cultural castration of man during the late 90’s; films like David Fincher’s FIGHT CLUB (1999) and Mike Judge’s OFFICE SPACE(1999) featured similar working stiffs experiencing a radical reawakening of manhood.

The threat to conventional notions of what it means to be a man are present everywhere in the story: a sexless marriage, repressed homosexual desires, the impotence that comes with having to be a role model, the gay couple just trying to live a normal life next door.  AMERICAN BEAUTY , for me personally, is about the loss and reclamation of masculinity in all its forms.

Lester Burnham (Kevin Spacey) has been in a state of sedation for as long as he can remember.  The highlight of his day is his daily masturbation session in the shower.  The quality of his day spirals downward from there, from his soul-crushingly bland sales job, to his increasing invisibility to his wife and daughter at home.

He sleepwalks through life, having accepted the fact that this is his life now, and his best days are behind him.  However, he experiences a radical midlife rejuvenation through his sexual fantasies about his daughter’s seductive friend (Mena Suvari), and the freedom he feels after being fired from his job.  The story is framed by Lester’s voiceover narration, which provides a wry commentary on the proceedings as well as gives the film its narrative urgency when he announces that he’ll be dead in a year.

Indeed, it’s the post-death point of view that is one of the film’s most striking and soulful elements.  The film strives for a realization of the beauty that exists just beyond the veil of reality, beyond what we can see.  It’s hinted at in one of the film’s most infamous sequences: video footage of a plastic bag dancing in the wind while a young man remarks at how it’s the most beautiful thing he’s ever seen.

Sure, it’s been mocked within an inch of its life in the 10+ years since its release, but it’s hard not to be haunted by the quiet intensity of the moment.  This invisible, yet tangible, grace and order to the seemingly chaotic universe is the heart of the story, evidenced by the film’s tagline: “look closer…”

Mendes is known for getting career-best performances from his actors, and AMERICAN BEAUTY starts off very strongly in that regard.  As the emasculated, burnt-out Lester Burnham, Kevin Spacey took home the Oscar for Best Actor.  The character is very much a Willy Loman, DEATH OF A SALESMAN-type who expresses regret over the life he’s lived.

His redemption lies in a recapturing of youth and all its trappings: rebellion, sexual obsession, drug use, etc.  Lester’s journey is incredibly compelling to watch, and Spacey’s performance is one for the cinematic history books.  As Lester’s wife, Carolyn, Annette Bening is the spitting image of the frustrated suburban housewife.

As the family’s primary breadwinner, she feels a lot of pressure to succeed in her job as a real estate agent.  Every inch of her, from her pantsuits to her Hilary Clinton-style haircut, exudes the powerful late-90’s woman image.  However, despite her projections of success, she has incredible doubts about herself that have taken a terrible toll on her marriage.  Bening makes Carolyn sympathetic, despite a role that frequently calls for her to be “the bad guy”.

The supporting cast is filled out with veteran character actors who all threaten to steal the show in their own right.  As Lester and Carolyn’s teenage daughter Jane, former child actress Thora Birch is adolescent anxiety incarnate.

This was her first real “grown-up” role, and she embraces it entirely by laying herself bare before the audience (sometimes literally).  Wes Bentley is haunting as the reclusive, aggressively insightful Ricky Fitts.  His role is crucial to the movie, as it is the fulcrum on which both Jane and Lester’s character arcs pivot.

He is also the conduit for the film’s central theme of “beauty inherent in the mundane”, and monologues that can potentially come off as pretentious are performed with a wide-eyed wonder.  As the seductress Angela, Mena Suvari gives herself entirely to the admittedly silly sexual fantasies Lester has about her.

She pulls off a balanced blend of the naive innocent and conceited sexual manipulator.  She’s clearly living in an overcompensating fantasy of her own making, but even she reclaims her innocence in the end.  (And in a strange connection to 1999’s AMERICAN PIE, which Suvari starred in, look for a silent cameo appearance by a pre-fame John Chu as a prospective house buyer.)

Any film with Peter Gallagher in the cast is a blessing, and AMERICAN BEAUTY features this exquisite lion of a man in spades.  As the silver fox “Real Estate King”, Buddy Kane, Gallagher effortlessly captures the confident masculinity that Lester had been so desperately grasping for.

His hysterical sex scene with Bening is one of the standout moments of the film, but underlying the humor of his character is the very real notion that oftentimes the image and projection of success belies a very empty, unrewarding core.  That said, Gallagher’s Buddy Kane is probably my favorite character in the entire film.

Of course, any discussion about AMERICAN BEAUTY’s cast wouldn’t be complete without the powerful turn by Chris Cooper as Colonel Frank Fitz, a hardass military man with repressed homosexual longings.  His character is fascinating to watch, as he at first literally trembles with a vitriolic hate towards gays.

We’re quick to write him off as another homophobic right-wing dinosaur, but like the film’s tagline implores, when we look closer at him, we find that his homophobic rantings are an expression of the crippling shame he feels towards his own urges.

His character arc is compellingly rendered in a vulnerable moment with Lester– a moment that will have fatal consequences for them both.  It was a career-making performance for Cooper, and he continues to be one of the most compelling character actors working today.

Despite such a strong cast delivering career-best performances, the star of the show here really is Mendes.  With a subtle, understated direction evoking the dark corners of a Norman Rockwell painting, Mendes crafts a haunting experience that lingers in the mind.

Working with legendary Director of Photography Conrad Hall, Mendes conjures up a midcentury aesthetic in the trappings of modern culture (it could be argued that the suburbs as an institution are an idyllic distillation of 1950’s sentiments about lifestyle and the American Dream).

The filmic, Anamorphic image utilizes a natural level of contrast, with even, neutral tones and a saturated color palette.  The color red is used to striking effect throughout the film, acting as a visual metaphor for vitality and passion.

This can be seen in the roses around the house, in Lester’s fantasies about Angela, Carolyn’s dress in the final scene, the garage lights, and finally, in the blood dripping from the bullet wound in Lester’s head.    It should be noted that the film’s title refers to a specific breed of rose famous for its bold, alluring color as well as its tendency to reveal an underlying rot upon closer inspection.

It’s a fantastic metaphor for the suburbs as a dramatically relevant setting, as well as the crippling decay underneath fake smiles and friendly waves. However, Mendes and Hall don’t stick exclusively to this visual look.  Lester’s fantasy sequences are rendered in a more stylized contrast, with natural lighting that’s slightly more intense, and colors that are slightly more concentrated.

These sequences allow the film to revel in some truly arresting imagery, like Suvari lying naked amongst a bed of roses on the ceiling.  The film also switches to black and white towards the end, as Lester reminisces on happier times in his life that have long since past.  It’s a poetic, evocative rendering of that old “life flashing before your eyes” yarn, and strengthens the emotional catharsis of the film’s denouement.

The camerawork is precise and mechanical, observing the action with an objective gaze that places the focus on the performances.  Mendes and Hall keep the camera confined to a tripod, mainly utilizing a dolly whenever the camera is moved.  The dolly shots are well thought-out and gracefully executed, bringing a subtle power to the subjects of the shot.

Composition is traditional, balanced, and artful– at many times, evoking a proscenium-style staging (such as the dinner scenes).  Mendes utilizes composition as an overt, as well as subtle, storytelling tool throughout.  The scene where Lester is fired comes to mind– Mendes frames the shots as a way to silently communicate power dynamics.

Lester’s boss is shot close-up and from below, giving him an authoritative presence, while Lester is seen from above, almost dwarfed by the scale of the room.  No flashy techniques here, just good, old-fashioned visual storytelling.

It should be noted that the camera only goes handheld during certain instances– namely, when Ricky’s video footage is cut into the story.  Thankfully, Mendes uses actual, interlaced video and embraces the flaws of the format to make the presentation more realistic.

The film opens with such a sequence, throwing the film into mystery when Thora Birch’s character addresses her desire to kill Lester to the camera.  Of course, we later learn that in the context of the moment, she was joking playfully, but it’s a compelling way to start a film and shows a great degree of confidence on Mendes’ part.

The music of the film is as iconic as its story and performances.  Composing legend Thomas Newman provides a minimalist, percussive score that’s extremely haunting in its simplicity.  Working primarily with xylophones and piano chords, Newman allows the music to complement the visuals without ever overpowering them, yet at the same time creates compositions that linger in the mind.

During the film’s fantasy sequences,  Newman utilizes an arrhythmic clash of cymbals to create a seductive, otherworldly-aura.  AMERICAN BEAUTY also includes a variety of source music that reads like a survey of popular twentieth century music.

Carolyn is defined by her love for Frank Sinatra and his ilk, which she plays repeatedly during family dinner time in a bid to project some semblance of wealth, success, and sophistication.  Conversely, Lester experiences his reawakening to the sounds of classic 80’s rock like Rick Springfield.  The film closes with Elliot Smith covering The Beatles’ “Because”, which brings everything full circle in a contemplative tone.

When AMERICAN BEAUTY was released in 1999, it was showered with accolades, most notably the Oscars for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Original Screenplay, and Best Cinematography.  Twelve years on, the film has aged well, despite it being firmly rooted in the post-corporate, dotcom boom days of the late 90’s.

Alan Ball’s dialogue comes off as on the nose at many points, but it can be argued that it works within his satirical intentions.  Indeed, the film is very, darkly funny in both overt and subtle ways.  For instance, Carolyn drives an SUV– but why?  She only has one kid, and driving around the suburbs isn’t exactly “off-roading”.

It’s a great jab at that late 90’s/early aught’s notion that driving a big SUV projected success and status.  I saw it firsthand myself when I was growing up, as even my own family fell prey to the SUV hysteria.  Ball’s satirical intentions are also present in Angela’s character-summarizing line: “There’s nothing worse in life than being ordinary”.

In theory, I agree with the sentiment, but the film is about finding the extraordinary within the ordinary; Angela is too focused on surface beauty to see it.  Understandably, it’s obscenely rare to knock a masterpiece out of the park on your first time at bat, but Mendes has managed to do just that.

AMERICAN BEAUTY is the kind of film that many directors work their entire life towards making, and most never even come close.  Mendes’ debut is a bold character piece that implores its audience to actively engage in the philosophical debate at the heart of the story.

It hooks us with the lurid promise of a murder mystery, but its objective is something else entirely.  In the wake of AMERICAN BEAUTY’s success, Mendes emerged as a masterful artist poised to deliver some of the most compelling films of our time.


ROAD TO PERDITION (2002)

2002’s ROAD TO PERDITION was the first film by Sam Mendes that I ever saw.  As I wrote previously, I remembered being captivated by the imagery on display during the theatrical trailer, and sought it out on DVD once it was available.

Having seen it on small screens at a standard resolution for many years, watching it again recently in high definition was like experiencing it for the first time.  Ten years after its release, ROAD TO PERDITION stands the test of time as a cinematic masterpiece that is (so far) the crown jewel of Mendes’ filmography and deserves a spot on the list of the greatest films of all time.

After achieving the highest industry honors for his debut film (1999’s AMERICAN BEAUTY), Mendes faced the enviable dilemma of what to tackle as a follow-up.  He had his pick of any film in development, but he went with an adaptation of a little-known graphic novel about small-time crime bosses during the Great Depression.

Coming off the dialogue-heavy chamber drama of AMERICAN BEAUTY, Mendes sought to harness the visual power of film to tell his story, both as a means of advancing the plot and of communicating subtext and central themes.  What results is a subtle, deeply affective visual experience worthy of the ages.

Michael Sullivan (Tom Hanks) is a mob enforcer to crime boss John Rooney (Paul Newman), carrying out the Rooney family’s dirty work.  However, when his son Michael Jr. (Tyler Hoechlin) becomes curious about what his father does for a living and stows away in his father’s car, he witnesses the true, murderous nature of his father’s work.

Acting brashly, John’s grown son Connor (Daniel Craig) murders Sullivan’s wife and youngest boy in cold blood.  Sullivan and Michael Jr. must leave everything behind in the middle of the night and make their way to refuge in the town of Perdition, while Sullivan schemes up a way to avenge his family’s deaths.

While the storyline is admittedly pulpy gangster fare, the performances are of a first-rate, Oscar-worthy quality.  As the morally ambiguous Michael Sullivan, Tom Hanks (and his mustache) injects a compelling pathos into his portrayal as a troubled gangster.

Hanks’ Sullivan, while a murderer, is a family man and a man of honor, but he holds them at arm’s length– as if his actions made him unworthy of their love.  Hanks is quiet, letting his piercing eyes do the bulk of the emoting.  In eschewing his traditional good-guy image, Hanks is compelling and unpredictable.

It’s truly one of his finest hours as a performer.  Tyler Hoechlin is similarly effective as Sullivan’s son, Michael Jr.  He’s wide-eyed and innocent, but he takes after his father, possessing the same darkness deep within.  He’s the emotional center of the father/son redemption arc, and if his performance was off by any one note, the whole thing could have collapsed.

Thankfully, Hoechlin delivers an understated depiction of a curious boy forced to grow up quickly in a harsh world.  The supporting cast is phenomenal, filled with some truly great actors.  Paul Newman, in one of his last film appearances, plays crime boss John Rooney with a grandfatherly charm and a bittersweet twinkle in his eye.

His Rooney is a man of great compassion and dignity, and commands a strong following within his community.  Indeed, if his business dealings weren’t illegal in nature, he might be a great statesman or even a president.  Reflecting the father/son arc, Newman is a father figure to Sullivan, who mourns the unravelling of their relationship while steadfastly doing what he has to in order to keep his business thriving.

This relationship reaches its beautiful denouement when, shortly before Sullivan guns Newman down in the street, Newman looks at him with those big, soulful blue eyes and whispers: “I’m glad it’s you”.  Daniel Craig, largely unknown to audiences in 2002, makes his first appearance in a Mendes film as Rooney’s son, Conor.

Even this early in his career, Craig possesses an icy charisma that’s captivating and mysterious.  In the wake of his recent success as James Bond, it’s very strange to hear Craig speak in a flawless American accent.  It’s a little distracting, more so now than it was then, but it helps put distance between Bond and his performance here.

As the film’s primary antagonist, Craig is dark and brooding, oozing envy at his father’s preference for Sullivan over him.  It’s a slimy role that Craig pulls off effortlessly. But, perhaps the more cinematically captivating antagonist is Jude Law’s Maguire– a crime scene photographer that also does a little bit of killing on the side.

Law eschews his handsome, leading-man image entirely by adopting a gaunt, pale, and balding look.  His icy, calculating stare belies the churning machinery in his head.  Maguire is an incredibly intelligent man, and is able to stay right on the heels of Sullivan and son as they make their way to Perdition.

It’s clear that Law revels in the chance to play someone so off-putting, and the result is one of the  more compelling screen villains in recent history.  He’s a chameleon that blends into the shadows, and shows up where you least expect (a fact that proves to be all too relevant in the film’s final moments).

Filling out the cast is a slew of character actors making brief appearances.  Jennifer Jason Leigh shows up as Sullivan’s doomed wife, largely blending into the scenery and being indistinctive.  Stanley Tucci plays Frank Nitti, a bookie/underboss for Al Capone and a personal friend of the Rooney family.

His character is buttoned-up, sensible, and pragmatic, and also gets a chance to showcase a tender, caring side when Sullivan comes to him for help.  Ciaran Hinds has a small, but pivotal role in Finn McGovern, a drunkard with an axe to grind towards Rooney, and whose murder kickstarts the entire plot.

Dylan Baker appears as Rooney’s accountant, adopting an effete, fey manner that tricks his ego into thinking he’s a more important man than he really is.   In ROAD TO PERDITION, Mendes has assembled an eclectic, highly respectable cast that commands your attention and your admiration.

Simply put, the film is one of the most gorgeous-looking works in recent history.  Mendes collaborated with Director of Photography Conrad Hall twice during his career, and both efforts (ROAD TO PERDITION and AMERICAN BEAUTY) resulted in an Oscar win for Hall.

Personally, I don’t think that’s a coincidence.  The sensibilities of the two men gel together in a compelling and beautiful way, and there’s no telling what visual beauty might have transpired in further collaborations.  Unfortunately, their partnership ended when Hall passed away shortly after winning the Oscar, but thankfully, Hall’s last effort is easily his best work.

A masterful capstone to a legendary career.  Shot on Anamorphic Super 35mm film, Mendes and Hall imbue the image with a high contrast, letting large swaths of the frame fall into darkness.  Very rarely is darkness and the absence of light used to such dramatic effect than in ROAD TO PERDITION.

Colors are desaturated, favoring a black, white, and brown color palette.  It’s said that Hall wanted to shoot and light the film as if it were a black-and-white piece, which results in a very distinct, stark look.  The image is gritty and appropriately grainy, adding a real substance and weight to the image.

Indeed, this is how Michael Mann’s PUBLIC ENEMIES (2009) should have looked– if anyone ever needs a quick reference on the differences between film and digital formats, they only need to look at both of these films side by side.

Mendes frames the story with striking compositions complemented by deliberate dolly movements.  Each shot, each camera move is designed to tell the story with maximum effect.  Despite its ugly subject matter, ROAD TO PERDITION is one of the most elegantly-shot films I’ve ever seen.  Truly a masterwork on a technical level.

The film already has a lot of visual distinction going for it, what with the striking, Depression-period accurate detail and wintery Northeast setting.  A lot of the film paints a portrait of the seedy world of adulthood as observed from the perspective of a wide-eyed child– most notably the murder scene that serves as the film’s inciting event.

Every boy is curious about what his father does for a living, and ROAD TO PERDITION not only uses it as inspiration on how the story unfolds, but also as a poignant theme.  The bonding of father and son on the road makes for many of the film’s most effective moments and makes the climax much more devastating.

Sullivan knows he is beyond saving, but over the course of the film, he realizes that he can save his son from a similar fate, and in the process experiences a redemption all his own. The film’s story provides ample inspiration for Mendes to inject his signature, understated directorial flair.

Ciaran Hind’s murder is depicted in a surreal slow-motion moment, amplified by loud, percussive gunfire (not unlike the sound design for Michael Mann’s HEAT (1995)).  A Sullivan family dinner sequence is composed in a dioramic wide-shot, like the Burnham dinner sequences of AMERICAN BEAUTY.

A cat-and-mouse dialogue sequence set in a roadside diner between Sullivan and Maguire generates a slow-burn tension and illustrates that Maguire is not a threat to be taken lightly.  And most importantly, Mendes crafts a reference-quality scene in regards to direction, cinematography and sound design when Sullivan finally confronts Rooney in the rain on a dark city street.

When I was tasked with showing a film scene to analyze during a high school playwriting class, I brought in ROAD TO PERDITION and showed that scene.  Even then I knew it was one of the most pure moments of cinema that had ever been crafted.  My words can’t do it justice, so I’ll just embed it here.  Go ahead, I’ll wait.

You might have noticed that haunting music, which is the product of Mendes’ second collaboration with composer Thomas Newman.  Continuing on his minimalist streak, Newman crafts a highly memorable score comprised of soaring strings, delicate piano chords, and even brassy bagpipes.

The music complements Mendes’ intentions of crafting a near-silent film, and allows for every subtle moment to resonate deeply.  Newman’s score, like Mendes’ film, will stick with you long after the lights come up. In summary, ROAD TO PERDITION is a severely underrated modern classic whose stature has only grown over time.

Mendes’ career would take a stylistic turn after this film, (mainly due to the change in cinematographers following Hall’s death) becoming notably less formal and constructionist.  Despite its modest box office success, ROAD TO PERDITION proved that Mendes wasn’t a flash in the pan, but a serious, highly observant drama director working at the top of his game.


JARHEAD (2005)

Every director worth his salt seems, at one point or another, to tackle a war film.  Often, the particular war or setting chosen serves as a compelling prism with which to gaze into a given director’s own psyche and mentality about the nature of conflict.

In 2005, Sam Mendes followed up his masterful 2002 effort ROAD TO PERDITION with JARHEAD, a chronicle of the First Gulf War as experienced by one Marine.  What results is a powerful story about war as a state of limbo, told by a director with a firm grasp on characterization and mood.

Anthony Swofford (Jake Gyllenhaal) lived an aimless life until he joined the Marine Corps.  Describing his choice of enlisting as getting “lost on the way to college”, we observe the dehumanizing boot camp process, as well as experience Swofford’s evolving (or, perhaps, devolving) mindset via a numb voiceover that frames the story.

Halfway through the film, Swofford’s unit is sent out into the Kuwaiti desert for Operation Desert Shield, wasting away in the hot sun for months as they look after US interests in the region.  When conflict flares up, and Operation Desert Shield becomes Desert Storm, Swofford and his men find themselves in a war where the conflict doesn’t manifest itself in enemy combatants, but rather in their own internal psyches.

As a rule, Mendes commands career-best performances, and he more or less achieves it with JARHEAD.  As the film’s lead, Gyllenhaal is a paradox– an empty vessel, yet also a rebellious questioner of authority.  He wants to be a ruthless war machine, but he has a profound empathy and respect for human life.

It’s a manic, schizophrenic existence that’s not unlike the military itself.  He deals with his fears and anxieties by confronting them head-on, yet in oblique ways.  Plagued by suspicions that his girlfriend is cheating on him, he seeks out a videotape of a fellow Marine’s wife sleeping with another man, just to experience how it feels (It’s no coincidence that the video was taped over a VHS copy of Michael Cimino’s THE DEER HUNTER (1979), a classic film about male loyalty and friendship in the midst of war).

Swofford stands exposed in the midst of battle, peacefully letting flecks of shrapnel and sand flutter across his face like snow.  He’s a living ghost, haunted by the chaos of war that he never got to experience.  It’s one of Gyllenhaal’s best roles, as he gives himself fully over to Swofford in both body and spirit.

The mostly-male cast is filled out with recognizable faces as well as up-and-comers.  Peter Sarsgaard, as Swofford’s sniping partner, brings a dark, zen-like calm to the proceedings, but whose own internal demons threaten to destroy him.  Sarsgaard delivers an unhinged performance that reflects the impotent frustration that all the Marines feel during their time in the desert.

Jamie Foxx assumes the R. Lee Ermey archetype as the hardass Staff Sergeant Sykes.  Sykes is a man whose love for his job runs deep, almost to a psychopathic level, and he both intimidates and emboldens his men into becoming the killing machines he needs them to be.

Foxx delivers an intense performance, playing it dead serious and erasing any memory of him as a comedian.  Lucas Black, most recognizable from his role in THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS: TOKYO DRIFT(2006), gets a fair amount of screen-time as a fellow knucklehead grunt, but doesn’t get much in the way of any significant character development.

Perhaps the most compelling of Swofford’s unit is Evan Jones as Dave “Squishy Face” Fowler, who gradually reveals the depths of his twisted-ness when he develops a strange fixation for burnt corpses. Chris Cooper, in his second collaboration with Mendes since 1999’s AMERICAN BEAUTY, makes a cameo appearance as Lieutenant Colonel Kazinski.

Channeling his overcompensating military macho man from that film, Cooper gives a pep talk to the newly-arrived Marines that fetishizes war and killing.  24’s Dennis Haysbert also appears, in a small role that I like to call Captain Pooper.

A stickler for pulling rank, Haysbert later becomes an important catalyst for Sarsgaard’s emotional breakdown.  It’s also worth noting that THE OFFICE’s John Krasinski apparently shows up (although I never saw him) as a character named Corporal Harrigan.  Krasinski would later go on to star for Mendes in AWAY WE GO (2009).

Visually, JARHEAD represents a stylistic deviation for Mendes.  After the passing of his previous collaborator Conrad Hall, Mendes struck up a new relationship with Director of Photography Roger Deakins (my favorite DP).   Mendes eschews his minimalist, classical aesthetic for a modern, gritty feel by utilizing predominantly handheld cameras and close-up framing.

The image is high in contrast, with severely desaturated colors that blend together in a tan, olive green, and brown color palette.  There are some dolly shots, mainly seen in stylized flashback tableaus that provide dioramic glimpses of Swofford’s background framed through a shutting door, but most of the film is firmly grounded in a shaky reality.

Interestingly, most of the desert scenes adopt an overexposed, bleached-out look where the desert blends in with the sky.  It creates a surreal limbo effect that perfectly communicates the Marines’ state of mind and reinforces the film’s central theme of being adrift in an emotional wasteland.

The editing, by famed editor Walter Murch, is quick, precise, and dynamic.  The pace is substantially quicker than Mendes’ previous efforts, and the result is a much more energetic story that feels contemporary and incredibly visual.

The soundtrack, with an original score by key Mendes collaborator Thomas Newman, is equally strong.  Newman’s score is percussive and exciting, laced with a Middle Eastern character that aptly communicates the setting and the ideology of its inhabitants.

A variety of early 90’s pop music populates the film as well, starting with the low-key reggae track “Don’t Worry Be Happy”, performed by Bob Marley.  Nirvana, The Doors, Public Enemy, and Kanye West all make aural appearances as well, infusing the film with a gritty, masculine musical quality.

The themes of JARHEAD are potent, lending to some truly memorable set pieces.  A recurring motif is the comparison of Operation Desert Storm to the Vietnam War.  The soldiers, themselves the children of Vietnam vets, yearn to fight their own war, but the specter of battle that emotionally scarred and marooned their elders threatens to consume them too.

Allusions to Vietnam are made frequently: one scene shows the Marines cheering and hollering during a screening of Francis Ford Coppola’s APOCALYPSE NOW’s (1979) infamous “Ride of the Valkyries” sequence.  Helicopters fly over ground troops in the desert, blasting popular music from the Vietnam era as a soldier opines “why can’t they play our music?”.

The structure of the film itself plays out like a contemporary update to Stanley Kubrick’s FULL METAL JACKET (1987), with the first half set in boot camp and the second half in battle. That being said, Mendes finds many moments that distinguish JARHEAD from other films of its ilk.

A scene featuring the Marines playing tackle football in full gas-mask gear comes to mind.  A conflict in which ground troops never fire a single shot causes those same troops to unload their ammo into the sky as an emotional release, perhaps in an attempt to shoot God himself out of the heavens.

The Marines are seen at the end of the film, in civilian clothes and working normal jobs– their minds unable to fully move on from their time in the desert.  All these moments, and more, come together to form a deeply philosophical, internalized story of armed conflict.

But perhaps the most profound moment for me is the moment in which the Vietnam comparisons come full circle.  As the Marines triumphantly return home, a frazzled Vietnam vet storms their bus and congratulates them on winning the war “clean and true”, and then asks to ride with them.

It’s an incredibly cathartic moment where a troubled veteran finds solace in the victories of the next generation.  The moment gets to the root of JARHEAD’s thesis: every conflict is different, but the experience is always the same.  In that experience lies brotherhood and a sense of belonging.

JARHEAD is ultimately a descent into the hell of the mind.  This is reflected with Mendes’ increasingly dream-like landscapes, which morph from drab, colorless flatlands to long stretches of darkness punctuated by orange towers of fire and raining oil.

It is here that the Marines must confront their deepest demons and battle for their very souls.  While not quite a full-on masterpiece like AMERICAN BEAUTY or ROAD TO PERDITION, Mendes crafts a superb character drama wrapped up in the desert camo trappings of a war film.

It’s as psychedelic an experience as any Vietnam film before it, and it won’t be shaken easily.   JARHEAD sheds much-needed light on the players in a major conflict about which very little is known.


AWAY WE GO (2009)

Following the harrowing chamber drama of 2008’s REVOLUTIONARY ROAD, it’s understandable that director Sam Mendes would want to tackle something a little bit more light-hearted.  In his quickest turnaround of a project to date, Mendes returned to screens just a year later with AWAY WE GO, a heartfelt comedy about the search for a place called home.

Bert (John Krasinksi) and Verona (Maya Rudolph), are an unmarried couple expecting their first child.  When Bert’s parents announce their intent to move to Belgium before the baby is due, the young couple decide to move somewhere else and start a new life of their own making.

The question is, however, where will they go?  Together, they embark on a cross-country tour and reconnect with old friends and family in an attempt to find that most elusive place of all: home. As Mendes’ first outright comedy, the performances by nature aren’t going to be stuffed with gravitas and importance, but that doesn’t mean they’re any less good.

Given the chance to let his hair down, Mendes reveals an ability to create touching, comic moments of fleeting beauty.  In his first substantial feature film role outside of TV’s THE OFFICE, the bearded Krasinski draws from his playful public image but downplays any hint of cynicism or snark.

Despite the seeming wealth of his parents, he appears to be scraping by financially.  He lives in a broken-down, uninsulated dwelling in the woods that’s prone to frequent electrical failure.  He ekes out his humble existence with Verona, played by SNL’s Maya Rudolph in what’s also her first big film role.

Verona is feisty, independent, and fiercely loyal.  The path to parenthood carries extra emotional weight for her, due to both her parents dying when she was in college.  Together, their chemistry is subtle, natural, and incredibly relatable.  Mendes does a great job creating a relationship dynamic that feels tangible.  Without it, the entire film could fall apart.

Like Homer’s The Odyssey, the film is comprised of a series of encounters between a variety of eccentric characters, played by an eclectic supporting cast.  Most have only one scene or sequence to carry, but each one is memorable and helps inform Bert and Verona’s development.

A bearded Jeff Daniels (perfect casting, by the way) and Catherine O’Hara play Bert’s parents in such a way that it’s entirely conceivable that a man like Bert would be their son.  Daniels and O’Hara have a tough job, as they could potentially come off as supremely selfish in their decision to abandon Bert in his time of need to go fulfill some lifelong fantasy of living abroad, but they bring so much charm and warmth to their performances that it’s impossible not to like them.

It’s unclear where the film takes place at the start, but it suggests a cold, winter-y Northeastern setting.  Through their travels, Bert and Verona encounter a wide variety of locales, each one rendered in quirky detail.  Commendably, the screenplay doesn’t have them going on a whirlwind tour of famous American cities and landmarks.

Rather, the story sheds some light on locales both mundane (Tucson, Phoenix, and Madison) and glamorous (Montreal and Miami).  Each location has an emotional significance for either Bert or Verona, as each place has a member of extended family or friend living there.

In Tucson, Lily (Allison Janney) and Lowell (a hilariously droll Jim Gaffigan) exhibit a trashy lifestyle that reminds Verona that sometimes past friends stay in the past for a reason.  In Phoenix, Verona reconnects with her younger sister Grace (Carmen Ejogo) and finds herself confronting the painful memory of her parents’ passing.

In Madison, Maggie Gylenhaal steals the show as Bert’s cousin LN, a new-age hippie that rejects most contemporary notions of child-rearing, lifestyle, and hygiene.  Montreal finds college friends Tom (Chris Messina) and Munch (Melanie Lynskey) living a seemingly-happy and drama-free life, but secretly grappling with the pain of being unable to conceive a child of their own.

Finally, Paul Schneider takes charge of the Miami segment as Bert’s brother, Courtney, who’s trying to keep his family together as it falls apart around him.  All of these characters have an effect on Bert and Verona’s journey, and ultimately moves them to decide where they will put down roots.

As a rule, comedies don’t require much in the way of a dynamic visual style.  Mendes adheres to that mentality for the most part, but he still finds ample opportunity to inject his personal aesthetic and give the film a distinctive look.

Working for the first time with Director of Photography Ellen Kuras, Mendes creates an Anamorphic image with a middling contrast whose blacks fall off into the blue/green spectrum, and whose colors are naturally saturated.

Kuras and Mendes create a subtle, distinctive look for each locale.  For instance, Phoenix and Tucson are rendered in heavy orange tones, Madison in lush greens, and Montreal in crisp reds and yellows.  Framing follows the typical Mendes mandate of wide, artfully composed shots achieved through the use of a tripod or dolly.

Mendes’ classical, formalist inclinations work well for the tone he’s established, and help keep the focus on the performances.  My only qualm with the look is more of a personal pet peeve than anything.  Sometimes, the tone is a little too twee or precious at times for my liking.  However, it never threatens the integrity of the story, so it’s really just a minor quibble.

Interestingly enough, just as he had foregone the use of regular cinematographer Roger Deakins in favor of Kuras, Mendes foregoes the use of regular composer Thomas Newman in favor of a score sourced from Alexi Murdoch songs.  A popular musician in his own right, Murdoch repurposes his quiet, moody folk songs to fit the film’s emotional development.

The use of his hit “All Of My Days” recurs throughout the film as an unofficial theme song.  In his break from regular collaborators, it becomes apparent that AWAY WE GO served as a kind of artistic refreshing for Mendes.  It may turn off fans who have come to see those relationships as part of a stylistic whole, but it’s good to incorporate new ideas and points of view every once in a while.

The story has some very potent themes, the biggest of which is the search for home.  It’s important to make the distinction between a house and a home.  A house is a structure, with four walls and a roof.  A home is a place with special significance, a little slice of land that you raise your family on.

Early adulthood is a complex emotional state, as most people that age are essentially homeless.  By that, I don’t mean they’re literally living on the streets.  But, since they have yet to settle down and raise a family of their own, they haven’t established a place of their own to call “home”.

AWAY WE GO takes this search for home and adapts it into the form of a road trip comedy.  The film’s main message is that there’s many places one can live, but there is truly only place that can be home.  In a nice touch, when Bert and Verona finally do find home at the end of the film, the actual geographic location is very deliberately not revealed.

In the course of Mendes’ development as a filmmaker, the film is somewhat of a curiosity.  It’s an independent film by a decidedly commercial filmmaker with classical tendencies.  It’s a much smaller film in a canon whose earlier films had previously been only getting bigger.  It’s the one comedy in a filmography of brooding dramas.

But, like I said before, AWAY WE GO finds Mendes at a point in his career where perhaps a creative refreshening seemed necessary.  The fact that he’s stretching outside of his comfort zone and voluntarily working with less resources than he’s accustomed to will only lead to growth and further mastery of his craft.  AWAY WE GO certainly isn’t Mendes’ best film, nor do I suspect that it’s a truly great film, but it’s definitely an underrated film that’s still relevant and touching nearly four years later.


REVOLUTIONARY ROAD (2008)

In 2008, Sam Mendes teamed up with Hollywood heavyweight producer Scott Rudin and directed REVOLUTIONARY ROAD, a 1950’s-set chamber drama about a rotting marriage stifled by a normal existence in the suburbs.  It’s familiar ground that Mendes had already tread in 1999’s AMERICAN BEAUTY, but this time his vision is more stark.

More realistic.  More devastating.  It’s by no means an inherently enjoyable experience, but it’s a compelling one that is impeccably crafted– marking a return to form to the aesthetic style that made Mendes a household name.

It’s 1955, and Frank and April Wheeler are surrounded by the trappings of midcentury prosperity.  They have it all: a nice house in the Connecticut suburbs, their youth, two healthy children, and a car.  But, much like their Burnham family counterparts, the Wheelers are stuck in a fundamental state of discontent.

Trying to break out of this funk, April proposes that they sell the house and relocate to Paris, living a romantic life abroad.  As the Wheelers make preparations, a surprise pregnancy and the opportunity of advancement at Frank’s job threaten to derail their plans, and subsequently, their marriage.

The story takes life advancements that would normally be greeted with great celebration, and twists them into harbingers of doom.  Having a reputation for coaxing impeccable performances from actors, Mendes has no trouble assembling an eclectic and powerful cast.

In their first team-up since 1997’s TITANIC, Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet project an image of success while wallowing in crushing uncertainty and doubt– indeed, the movie isn’t even five minutes in when they begin bickering and fighting with each other.

As Frank, DiCaprio uses his natural charm and intelligence to duplicitous effect.  A stymied husband who feels himself becoming slowly boxed in by his responsibilities, Frank lashes out with a passion that he’s unable to channel into a positive marriage.

He makes a point of forcing his wife to talk to him whenever he senses something is wrong, but it’s more so out of maintaining the status quo of a happy home instead of getting to the real root of the problem.  As Frank’s wife, April, Winslet signifies the burgeoning independence and assertion of femininity that the 1960’s would bring.

It is she who proposes the relocation to Paris, and who steers the course of events that lead to the film’s tragic denouement.  Together, they strike up a very different dynamic than they did as “Jack & Rose”, conjuring up an acidic chemistry that singes the screen.

As most of the film’s development plays out in dialogue, DiCaprio and Winslet are given no small amount of scene-chewing dialogue (most of which unfortunately comes off as on-the-nose and/or expositional).  Their conflict feels very stage-y, but that’s to be expected from a director already well-known for his theater productions.

The supporting cast is filled out with less-known actors, but that doesn’t mean they don’t meet or exceed the quality of performance by the two leads.  Yet another TITANIC co-star, Kathy Bates, plays the Wheeler’s real-estate agent-turned-neighbor/friend.

  She becomes one of the sole female friends in April’s life, which is alienating due to her significant age difference.  Bates performs admirably, and looks like she fits right in with the midcentury time period.  Michael Shannon, one of my favorite actors ever, plays her son– a socially strange, fidgety man with a history of mental problems.

Nominated for a Best Supporting Actor Oscar for his work here, Shannon is absolutely magnetic.  In a film full of self-deluded characters, leave it to the “crazy one” to be the voice of reason and logic, unafraid to call out their bullshit right to their faces. Shannon’s work on REVOLUTIONARY ROAD stands out as one of the best in a career dominated by amazing, memorable performances,

As the Wheeler’s only neighbors of the same age, Shep (David Harbour) and Milly (Kathryn Hahn) are their closest friends and confidants.  Harbour is incredible as a man harboring a long-held yearning for April, and who resents himself for it.

I’m not too familiar with his other work, but his performance here guarantees that I’ll be paying attention the next time he shows up in a film.  Dylan Baker, previously collaborating with Mendes in 2002’s ROAD TO PERDITION, plays Frank’s work colleague– an effete, fancy boy that always sports a bow tie.

It’s not too dissimilar from his role in ROAD TO PERDITION, but Baker gives his performance a unique and memorable quality, mostly informed by the presence of that bow tie.  Doe-eyed Zoe Kazan (granddaughter of legendary film director Elia Kazan) plays an impressionable young secretary that Frank sleeps with throughout the film.

Her role is small, but her participation will have big consequences for Frank’s downfall. Working again with Director of Photography Roger Deakins, Mendes returns to his classical, minimalist roots.  Creating an Anamorphic image that’s high in contrast, with saturated colors comprised of warm, neutral tones, Mendes establishes a realistic and tangible atmosphere.

He also uses a grey/beige palette to illustrate the monotony of the Wheeler’s existence: the colorless house, the sea of grey suits disembarking from commuter trains, etc.  Compositions are wider and artfully-framed, achieved through the strategic use of tripod, dolly, and Steadicam shots.

As the marital discord grows, Mendes lets handheld camerawork become increasingly prevalent, signifying the characters’ chaotic state of mind.  The production design, taking a page from the popular TV show MAD MEN, is impeccable in its period authenticity and dressing.  All in all, Mendes creates a sumptuous visual look upon which to highlight the internal decay of his characters.

Thomas Newman returns to score the proceedings, crafting music that, much like his earlier work for Mendes, deals in piano chords and swelling string instruments.  However, he also infuses an element of abstract ambience, which adds a brooding nature to the story.

The rest of the soundtrack is sourced from an eclectic mix of period pop songs that give a realistic sense of the era and the national mood.  In telling the tale of a pair of bohemian scenesters turned conventional suburbanites, Mendes is certainly risking re-treadingAMERICAN BEAUTY territory.

However, there’s no Lester Burnham-esque reawakening or rejuvenation to be had here– only endless misery and suffering.   Mendes’ tone is dead serious with very little levity, and as a result, it’s a tough experience to sit through.

The characters are energized by their romantic fantasy of an idealistic Paris that probably doesn’t exist.  However, their dreams are done in by pragmatism and a sense of adult responsibility.  These are all qualities that are encouraged in modern notions of adulthood, usually as a way to better ourselves.

In REVOLUTIONARY ROAD, however, those some life-affirming notions become a death sentence.  The characters seek comfort in the danger/excitement of extramarital affairs, but even those prove to be of no energizing value in the end.  (Also, is it just me, or is every male in the film a premature ejaculator?

I understand that period accuracy dictates the mentality that the man’s satisfaction was the priority, but….damn, they’re quick).  Watching REVOLUTIONARY ROAD, I’m reminded of Mena Suvari’s character in AMERICAN BEAUTY and her standout line: “there’s nothing worse in life than being ordinary”.

The Wheelers adopt this attitude as their guiding philosophy, raging against the machine at every opportunity– even when the machine is themselves.  Mendes makes no bones about the film’s dour attitude– it’s a gorgeous-looking, yet incredibly ugly, portrait of marital strife.

However, returning to the formalist style that he eschewed in 2005’s JARHEAD, Mendes is back in his dramaturgical comfort zone.  It’s not his greatest work, but it is certainly consistent within a canon known for its sterling quality.


SKYFALL (2012)

As long as I can remember, I’ve been a James Bond fan.  It started with the GOLDENEYE video game for the Nintendo 64, then expanded outward as I started watching all the films in the series.  I make a concerted effort to go see a new Bond film in theaters each time one comes out, so you can imagine the great degree of anticipation I had for 2012’s SKYFALL.

That anticipation was obscenely amplified by the fact that Sam Mendes, a director whose work I greatly respected, was at the helm.  Looking back over Mendes’ body of work, Mendes’ decision to tackle James Bond is at once both perplexing and strangely logical.

You might be bewildered as to what a director of award-winning character dramas might see in a loud, pulpy action movie.  The only connecting factor between Mendes and Bond seems to be a UK nationality.  However, even when I read the press announcement detailing his involvement, I knew that Mendes was an inspired choice.

After the dismal failure that was 2002’s DIE ANOTHER DAY, producers decided that the next Bond outing would go back to basics.  Back to his roots.  And so, in 2006, CASINO ROYALE debuted with a new, blond Bond (Daniel Craig), who was just as emotionally damaged as he was suave.

It was a radical new direction for the world’s favorite super-spy, and it resulted in one of the finest 007 films ever made.  However, 2008’s follow-up QUANTUM OF SOLACE, didn’t deliver on the promise of its predecessor.  While it was still relentlessly exciting, it was dim-witted, uninspired, and thanks to overly frenetic handheld camerawork, largely incoherent.

As a result, the stakes were high– if SKYFALL didn’t deliver on CASINO ROYALE’s emotional promise, the new era of Bond might be dead before it ever truly lived.  Thankfully, Mendes’ masterful hand propels Bond to unseen heights, arguably delivering one of the best Bond films of all time.

When a mission to retrieve a stolen drive listing the identities of M16 agents goes south, Bond is shot and left for dead.  Surviving the hit, he holes up in a beachside shack and takes the opportunity to stay dead and begin an early retirement.  It takes a bombing of the M16 headquarters to shake him into returning to duty.

A mysterious cyberterrorist has been publicly exposing agents, and Bond is tasked with discovering the terrorist’s identity.  It turns out that the mastermind behind the cyber attacks is Raoul Silva, a former M16 agent who has a bone to pick with M.  Faced with a renegade agent who can outsmart them at every turn, Bond and M must work together to beat Silva at his own game before they are decimated once and for all.

One of Mendes’ chief inspirations for the tone was Christopher Nolan’s THE DARK KNIGHT (2008), and it shows not just in the plotting, but in the characters.  As the nefarious, effete Silva, Javier Bardem channels The Joker’s casual anarchic glee.  Silva is a Bond villain unlike any other, and as such he’s wildly unpredictable.

In a rogue’s gallery full off eccentric baddies, Silva is by far the most intense and acutely dangerous.  Bardem has a knack for playing cool, atypical villains (see his turn as Anton Chigurh in The Coen Bros’ NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN (2007)), and with SKYFALL he’s a malignantly charismatic presence.

Daniel Craig returns as James Bond, fully comfortable within the role and exuding an effortless cool.  This is his second film collaboration with Mendes, and their familiarity breeds a daring approach to Bond, who after 50 years of high-octane espionage, is starting to show some severe wear-and-tear.

We delve into Bond’s backstory more so than any other film in the series before it, which gives Craig’s portrayal more pathos and substance.  Quite simply, if Craig continues to bring the same level of intensity and commitment to the role in future outings, he may very well topple Sean Connery as the best cinematic incarnation of James Bond.

In addition to a host of new faces, a number of classic Bond characters make their grand re-introduction after the CASINO ROYALE reboot.  The biggest of which is Q, played by a fresh-faced Ben Whishaw.  In just one scene, Whishaw wipes away any memory of the lovably-craggy Desmond Llewelyn and brings M16 firmly into the twenty first century (ironically, the only gadgets Bond is given for his mission are a custom Walther pistol and a radio tracking device).

Noamie Harris is excellent as Eve, a fellow field operative who can hold her own against Bond in a firefight.  Eve and Bond share a chemistry that should be very familiar to fans of the franchise, but to say anything more would set off the perennial spoiler alarm.

Of course, Dame Judi Dench is impeccable in her seventh outing as M, the head of M16.  She has become a franchise stalwart, acting somewhat as a surrogate maternal figure for Bond (indeed, the agents actively call her “Mum” as a codename on the field).  SKYFALL places the focus on M more squarely than past films, and Dench is more than capable of handling the extra attention.  M’s character is given a great new layer as a tough old broad that isn’t afraid to make incredibly hard calls, even when it’s against her own personal interests.  Dench adds a very regal presence that dignifies the Bond mythos.

Ralph Fiennes, as Gareth Mallory, symbolizes the British bureaucracy caught up in the throes of modernization.  He’s an antagonistic presence to M in that he’s looking to shut the program down and make M retire.  However, Fiennes imbues the character with a degree of decency and intelligence that makes him sympathetic.

As a result, he is a mysterious wild card in the proceedings, and his true allegiance remains in the shadows.  Rounding out the main cast, Berenice Marlohe makes a stunning impression as Severine, a damaged beauty that leads Bond to Silva– at great personal cost to her.

Collaborating again with Director of Photograpy Roger Deakins, SKYFALL is quite simply the best looking Bond film ever made.  Enhancing the picture for IMAX presentation, Mendes and Deakins framed for both an Anamorphic presentation as well as for the un-cropped, full frame the digital format allows.

Indeed, SKYFALL is the first Bond film as well as Mendes’ first film to be shot entirely digitally, and the results are staggering.  Mendes cohesively blends his minimalist aesthetic with Bond’s genre trappings.  Making full use of the considerable resources at his disposal, Mendes utilizes a variety of dolly, crane, handheld, and Steadicam shots to tell the story.

Every frame is artfully composed, but never so much that it distracts from the action at hand.  Editing is much quicker than Mendes’ previous work, but that’s to be expected with the action genre in general.  I will say that it seemed a little over-cut at times, but for the most part Mendes strikes a great balance between the quick pace and the characterization.

Contrast is high, colors are deep and saturated, and everything has the raw, tactile feel of a gritty action film.  Combine that with some of the most memorable shots in the series’ history and you’ve got one hell of a visual presentation.

Thomas Newman returns to musically collaborate with Mendes, a pairing that kicks previous series composer David Arnold out of the proceedings.  Newman stays loyal to the source material, but finds plenty of opportunity to inject his own personality and style.

After two films of skirting around the classic Bond theme, Newman brings it roaring back in full at various points throughout the film.  It’s not a typical, Newman/minimalist score by any means– it’s filled to the brim with percussive blasts of horns, strings and drums.

The result is one of the most refreshing, invigorating Bond scores in recent years.  And no discussion of SKYFALL’s music would be complete without mentioning Adele’s stunning, throaty title track.  Harking back to the days of GOLDFINGER and Shirley Bassey, Adele’s performance is catchy, haunting, and harrowing all at once.

SKYFALL finds Mendes undoubtedly working at the top of his game.  He packs so many inspired setpieces into the story that it’s hard to keep track of it all.  I love the fact that much of the action takes place on Bond’s home turf, realized very literally in the film’s climactic moments.

The stand-out sequence for me was midway through the film, during M’s deposition to the British MP in which she defends her job amidst accusations that she and her agency are irrelevant and obsolete.  This is intercut with Silva, posing as a police officer, relentlessly barreling towards the courthouse to execute her, with Bond dashing through the streets in hot pursuit.

Mendes injects each big sequence with an extra layer that informs us of character and motivation.  He also infuses a shockingly realistic presence to the gunplay, in that each bullet has a weight and a consequence.  Much like the gunplay in 2002’s ROAD TO PERDITION, the gunshots are ear-splittingly loud and jarring.

Judging by the sound design alone, it’s evident that Mendes took great care in every element of the production.  With SKYFALL, Mendes proves he’s just as adept at rendering action as he is with drama and character, and he crafts one of the most emotionally charged and satisfying Bond films in many years.

The success of the film vaulted him into the echelon of the biggest and most-respected filmmakers in Hollywood.  Not many directors can lay claim to being an Oscar winner and a blockbuster film director, so he’ll have his pick of projects for years to come.

Looking over the course of his development, I see a supremely confident director  who uses his background in the theater to bring a great deal of emotional impact to his work.  He began at the top, and has barely wavered in the years since his debut.  Mendes’ development as a filmmaker is similar to the character development in his best dramas- slow, subtle, and gradual, yet undeniably relentless and powerful.


SPECTRE (2015)

Up until 2012, the nature of director Sam Mendes’ filmography suggested nothing in the way of his ability to handle a blockbuster action franchise like James Bond.  Even his 2005 war drama, JARHEAD, lavished more attention on the psychological underpinnings of his characters rather than the destructive violence of armed conflict.

Indeed, the only thing about Mendes that seemed to position him as a suitable candidate was his British citizenship.  His surprise hiring as the director of the 23rd James Bond film, SKYFALL, understandably struck many as an inspired, if not a bit odd, choice– after all, Mendes’ reputation as a masterful director of intimate chamber dramas seemed appropriate given the series’ Daniel Craig-era pivot towards a deeper exploration of Bond’s internal psyche and character, but could he also deliver where it counted: breathtaking action and adventure?

After SKYFALL’s release in November 2012, it quickly became apparent to everyone that the gamble laid down by Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson’s EON Productions had paid off in spades; The presence of Mendes’ guiding hand resulted in a deeply-compelling film that would go down as one of the most successful installments in a franchise that had already spanned five decades.

Broccoli and Wilson were understandably keen to replicate this particular alchemy for the inevitable 24th entry, but Mendes wasn’t so eager to jump back in, citing his responsibilities to several stage productions he had on his plate.

The producers continued developing the film in the hopes he would eventually change his mind, hiring SKYFALL’s screenwriter John Logan to draft a new story that would further reveal the secrets of Bond’s murky past while bringing back his Cold War-era nemesis, S.P.E.C.T.R.E– a secretive criminal organization hellbent on world domination.

Absent almost entirely from the series since the Sean Connery years, the rights to this fictional cabal of terrorists had been tied up in litigation for decades by THUNDERBALL (1964) producer Kevin McClory and his estate.  However, a 2013 settlement awarded the rights back to their rightful owners, and the franchise could now integrate S.P.E.C.T.R.E back into the rebooted continuity that started with 2006’s CASINO ROYALE.

With this development, Mendes found himself once again drawn to the director’s chair, making him the first Bond filmmaker to helm two consecutive entries since John Glen. In an ironic twist, Logan’s script would be rewritten by Neal Purvis and Robert Wade– the longtime Bond scribes that Logan had replaced on SKYFALL— before undergoing an additional pass by Jez Butterworth.

The story proved difficult to tack down, but Mendes and company nonetheless pushed forward with their massive operation.  The script problems compounded into real production woes and an ever-ballooning budget during a grueling six month shoot across such disparate locations as Tangiers, Austria, Mexico City, and Rome.

When all was said and done, the 24th James Bond film– SPECTRE (2015)– wound up with a reported final cost of $350 million, making it not just one of the most expensive Bond films ever made, but one of the most expensive films ever made.

A chief reason for the outsized expense is the film’s sprawling story, which in addition to traveling the far reaches of the globe and staging elaborate set pieces, attempts to retcon the events of the three previous Bond films into a unified conspiracy against our iconic hero.

As Bond attempts to shine a light on the titular shadowy organization (streamlined from the S.P.E.C.T.R.E. acronym that identified the group’s Cold War incarnation), he finds himself personally entangled with its enigmatic leader, Franz Oberhauser (Christoph Waltz)– a ghost from Bond’s past who ultimately reveals himself to be Ernst Stavro Blofeld, the iconic 007 nemesis from the Connery years.

Bond’s attempts to reveal the truth behind the conspiracy and its personal machinations against him will take him from the alpine peaks of Austria, to the arid desert of Tangiers, and finally to the rain-slicked streets of his London for a final confrontation within the bombed-out husk of M16’s former headquarters.

On top of all this, he finds himself falling in love with a fierce woman named Madeline (Lea Seydoux) who appeals to Bond’s humanity and might just heal the wounds left behind by the death of his beloved Vesper Lynd.  SPECTRE has a lot of story to tell, making for the longest-running entry in the series.

However, longer doesn’t necessarily equal better– the filmmakers’ attempts to retroactively incorporate Spectre into the fabric of the previous Bond films feels a little too forced, shoehorning in extraneous story that only causes the truly great moments to space themselves out even further between each other.

However, it is the first of the Craig Bonds to feel like one of the old-fashioned 007 adventures– Bond’s struggle throughout the previous three films to establish himself as the secret agent we all know and love makes the return of beloved Bond institutions (like M’s mahogany office, the gadget-laden Aston Martin, or the classic gun-barrel opening) feel earned.

After three punishing missions, Bond is finally comfortable in his own skin– and so is Daniel Craig, who also receives a co-producing credit here as a testament to his enormous influence on the character as well as the franchise.

Craig’s Bond has always been a bit of a brooding bulldog, or a loyal grump, but he is also a man who is profoundly haunted by loss– the loss of his parents, of Vesper Lynd, of his beloved M (Judi Dench).  The events of SKYFALL seemingly cleansed Craig’s Bond of his original sins and emotional baggage while renewing his commitment to MI6.

With SPECTRE, Bond is marked by an unrelenting focus that Mendes has compared to a hunter, but it appears he still has some skeletons in his closet yet.  At nearly fifty years old, Craig proves he’s still a physical powerhouse with plenty of fight left in him.

His previous collaboration with Mendes, in SKYFALL as well as a supporting role in 2002’s ROAD TO PERDITION, allows for the presence of trust and vulnerability in their working relationship, the effects of which are immediately tangible–even visceral– on the screen.

It remains to be seen if he’ll return for a fifth outing– indeed, press interviews during SPECTRE’s release cited him as wanting to “slit his wrists” instead of playing the character again anytime soon– but even if he doesn’t, Craig will have left behind one of the most enduring and definitive portrayals of the iconic superspy the world has ever seen.

Oscar-winning character actor Christoph Waltz puts a new spin on a hallowed Bond nemesis as Oberhauser / Blofeld, affecting a peculiar physical eccentricity that’s at once both taunting and devious.

In assuming a role previously played by the likes of Donald Pleasence, Waltz has the unenviable task of paying homage to the classical hallmarks of the character– the band-style collar, the Persian lap cat, the disfiguring scar that runs down the side of his face– but he effortlessly incorporates them into his updated version of Bond’s archenemy, making for a formidable and inherently unpredictable adversary who can counter Bond’s brawn with a brilliant brain.

French arthouse star Lea Seydoux is the latest in a long line of Bond Girls, but her performance as Madeline– the confident and elegant daughter of recurring Quantum operative, Mr. White– allows her to immediately differentiate herself from her predecessors.

She’s as fearless as she is brilliant, proving herself every bit Craig’s equal without resorting to the “kickass fighter chick” cliche.  A considerable factor of Bond’s emotional trajectory throughout the Craig era has been his love for Vesper Lynd (played brilliantly in CASINO ROYALE by Eva Green) and the wounds incurred by her betrayal and death, but Seydoux’s Madeline is uniquely suited by the end of SPECTRE to become a healing force in Bond’s life, and the one who can help him find love once again.

Bond films are understandably huge in scope, necessitating a large supporting cast of capable character actors.  The involvement of a director as widely-respected and esteemed as Mendes has the added benefit of attracting prestigious actors to even the smallest of roles.

SKYFALL evidenced Mendes’ desire to extend the roles of perennial favorites like M, Q, and Moneypenny beyond an expositional capacity by making them active participants in the story.  Towards that end, he cast Ralph Fiennes, Ben Whishaw and Naomie Harris, and proved there were entirely new ways to depict a suite of iconic characters who had been around for fifty years.

Fiennes has a tough act to follow as the new M, and Judi Dench’s successor, but his classical training helps him pull it off beautifully.  He’s at once both a throwback to the gravely serious and dignified M16 bosses of old, and an entirely new animal who can hold his own in a firefight.

SPECTRE finds Fiennes further finessing the role, now comfortably installed as the head of M16.  The fresh-faced Whishaw quickly proved he could fill the shoes of the inimitable Desmond Llewelyn as M16’s Quartermaster (or Q, for short), and SPECTRE also provides him with a fair degree of autonomy and mobility, thanks to the advancement of digital and wireless technology.

Harris made series history with her SKYFALL debut as the first Moneypenny of color, and she continues to further distinguish herself here from her predecessors– the matronly Lois Maxwell and the poised Samantha Bond– by imbuing an assertive, independent, and challenging charge into her otherwise-flirtatious repartee with Bond.

Also returning is Jesper Christensen as Mr. White, the enigmatic agent for Quantum– a similarly conspiratorial cabal of elite power players initially intended to be the Craig-era answer to S.P.E.C.T.R.E, only to be retconned as a subdivision within SPECTRE’s eponymous organization once EON Productions won the film rights back.

Christensen’s third appearance within the rebooted continuity finds his character a broken, reclusive shadow of his former self– hiding out from the world even as he awaits the inevitable retribution of his former employers.

Of the new faces, Monica Belluci, Andrew Scott, and Dave Bautista are the standouts.  Holding a distinction as the oldest Bond girl to date, Belluci smolders as an aloof Roman widow of a Spectre assassin that naturally falls into bed with the very man who killed her husband.

As a smug bureaucrat / double agent for Spectre, Scott’s character (patronizingly referred to by Craig as “C”) makes for a formidable adversary to Fienne’s M by being his antithesis.  Where the middle-aged M prizes old-fashioned field work to gather intelligence, the much younger C prefers to utilize all-seeing and borderline-unethical surveillance technology as both a cost-cutting and a life-saving measure.

Bautista plays Blofeld’s bodyguard, Hinx– a silent brute in the grand tradition of Jaws or Oddjob, but with a fraction of the memorability.  As Mendes’ first big-budget action picture, SKYFALL put forth a particular tone and aesthetic that was clearly inspired by the work of a fellow Brit– Christopher Nolan’s THE DARK KNIGHT (2008).

SPECTRE similarly takes its cues from Nolan, hiring INTERSTELLAR’s cinematographer Hoyte Van Hoytema to replace SKYFALL’s Roger Deakins (who also shot JARHEAD and REVOLUTIONARY ROAD for Mendes).

SKYFALL marked the first time that a Bond film was shot digitally, but SPECTRE finds Mendes and Hoytema returning to the organic texture of 35mm film, with a distinctively shallow depth of field gained from using anamorphic lenses– the first time Mendes had done so in his career.

The film is stuffed with Mendes’ impeccable compositions, with each locale given a subtle, yet distinct look: Mexico boasts dusty amber tones; London’s slick streets are rendered in a cool, stony palette; Italy’s vibrant colors are muted and cloaked in sepia and shadow; the starkness of Austria’s frigid landscape closely resemble the monochromatic nature of black-and-white films; and the ancient warmth of Tangiers is slightly overbaked and arid.

SPECTRE also continues the classical, epic approach to camerawork that Mendes employed in SKYFALL, utilizing cranes, dollies, and handheld cameras to exhilarating effect.  From a dizzying car chase through the nocturnal Roman cityscape to the destruction of Blofeld’s secret hideout in a huge crater via one of the largest practical explosions ever caught on film, Mendes’ ambition to create an exciting action film on par with Nolan’s caliber is evident throughout.

He signals his intentions from the first shot– a virtuoso opening that tracks Bond in a single shot as he weaves through a Mexican Day of the Dead parade, walks up into a hotel, ditches his date by exiting through a window, and then stalks the rooftops high above the street as he makes his way to surveill a clandestine meeting next door.

Despite its surface simplicity, the shot is an exceedingly complex one from a technical perspective, and Mendes and company pull it off with effortless grace, immersing the audience within the sprawling scene far better than trendier techniques like 3-D ever could.

For other aspects of SPECTRE’s visuals, Mendes draws inspiration from other directors– the Coen Brother’s regular production designer Dennis Gassner replicates his duties from SKYFALL, and the influence of Stanley Kubrick’s EYES WIDE SHUT (1999) is heavily felt throughout the centerpiece “secret society meeting” sequence, from the shadowy, baroque environs right down to the elevated levels of interaction between trespasser and attendee.

(Mendes switches Kubrick’s orientation however, placing Blofeld down on the floor while Bond watches from a balcony high above.). Mendes’ longtime composer Thomas Newman reprises several of the key themes and ideas he developed with SKYFALL’s original score, injecting modern electronic elements into an old-school orchestral approach.

Newman came aboard the series as part of the Mendes package, unceremoniously dumping the previous composer David Arnold after five functional– if undistinctive– scores.  Newman once again proves an inspired choice for Bond, supplying the series with a suite of memorable supplementary themes that inject a substantial degree of gravitas and intrigue.

Of course, it wouldn’t be a new Bond film without its own lavish theme song, which SPECTRE provides in the form of Sam Smith’s darkly beautiful “The Writing’s On The Wall”.  An alternate version was commissioned and performed by Radiohead, but was famously rejected for being too dark.

Perhaps unfairly criticized upon its release (“it doesn’t even have the title of the movie in its name, man!”), Smith’s ballad would go on to win the Oscar for Best Song, the series’ second consecutive win in this category after Adele took home gold for her efforts on SKYFALL.

If SPECTRE does indeed mark Craig’s last outing as 007, the track stands to serve as a melancholic counterpoint to the aggressive machismo of Chris Cornell’s “You Know My Name” featured in CASINO ROYALE— an intriguing bookend that echoes the emotional trajectory of Craig’s Bond himself.

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Throughout the course of six features, Mendes has proven himself more of a cerebral auteur than an aesthete.  Unlike the great deal of directors who tend to impose their thematic fascinations on the story at hand, he seems to harvest the themes already lying within the narrative he’s chosen.

His aesthetic is marked not by recurring stylistic conceits, but rather a kind of classical dramaturgy that no doubt stems from his background as a stage director.  Previous films like AMERICAN BEAUTY and REVOLUTIONARY ROAD benefitted greatly from this approach, but it also elevates the genre material seen in both SKYFALL and SPECTRE.

He crafts both films’ action sequences with a visceral brilliance, but his artistic instincts make for dialogue and character moments that are just as, if not more, memorable.  It’s not a coincidence that Mendes’ involvement with the Bond series has overlapped with an increased presence at the Academy Awards beyond the usual below-the-line craft categories.

To the surprise of absolutely no one, SPECTRE was a monster hit when it was released in November of 2015.  Grossing nearly a billion dollars domestically, the film’s performance is second only to SKYFALL.

For all his ambition and effort, however, Mendes couldn’t escape the law of diminishing returns– reviews were decidedly mixed, with many lavishing praise on Mendes’ classy style and approach to action while taking the script to task for its extra bloat and a tendency to fall back on uninspired formula.

There’s a case to be made that, considering the majestic excellence of SKYFALL, Mendes is simply the victim of unrealistic expectations.  SPECTRE is far from a bad film, but it cannot extricate itself from the shadow of its superior predecessor.

It pales in comparison, and yet it can’t distance itself to avoid comparison.  Mendes’ direction is as on-point as its ever been, but its effectiveness is hobbled by an unwieldy screenplay stretched thinly over a misshapen conspiracy plot.

spectre-james-bond-sam-mendes-set-photo

As of this writing, the 51 year-old director is attached to direct film adaptations of VOYEUR’S MOTEL and JAMES AND THE GIANT PEACH, but it remains to be seen whether he’ll return for a third Bond outing (indeed, that probably depends on whether Craig himself will return).

Considering his initial reluctance to reprise his role for the second time, it’s probably a fair bet that Mendes’ involvement with the Bond series is done.  Even despite SPECTRE’s disappointing reception, Mendes has fulfilled the promise put forth with Craig’s casting in CASINO ROYALE by elevating well-trod material and redefining a 20th century icon for a new generation.

In the process, he’s undergone immense personal growth as a filmmaker and broadened his audience considerably– thus installing himself as one of the premiere directors of impeccably-made and narratively-nuanced prestige blockbusters.


Author Cameron Beyl is the creator of The Directors Series and an award-winning filmmaker of narrative features, shorts, and music videos.  His work has screened at numerous film festivals and museums, in addition to being featured on tastemaking online media platforms like Vice Creators Project, Slate, Popular Mechanics and Indiewire. To see more of Cameron’s work – go to directorsseries.net.

THE DIRECTORS SERIES is an educational collection of video and text essays by filmmaker Cameron Beyl exploring the works of contemporary and classic film directors. ——>Watch the Directors Series Here <———

IFH 614: Kubrick, Nolan & Spielberg: The Power of Staging with Mark W. Travis

Mark W. Travis acclaimed as “the director’s director”, Mark W. Travis is regarded by many Hollywood and International professionals as one of the world’s leading authorities in the art and craft of film directing. Drawing from his impressive background in design, writing, acting, and his wide range of experience directing theater, film and television, Mark is able to bring new insights and exceptional clarity to the complex task of directing the feature film.

Mark W. Travis earned a B.A. degree in Theatre at Antioch College and did his graduate training in Directing in the MFA program at the Yale School of Drama. Mark is a creative consultant to film directors Mark Rydell, George Tillman, Cyrus Nowrasteh and many other notable writers and directors.

Mark’s television directing credits include The Facts of Life, Family Ties, Capitol and the Emmy Award-winning PBS dramatic special, Blind Tom: The Thomas Bethune Story. In 1998 he directed the pilot for LifeStories.

In 1990 he completed his first film, Going Under, for Warner Bros., starring Bill Pullman and Ned Beatty. In 2001 he wrote and directed The Baritones (parody of The Sopranos) as well as the short documentary, Earlet. In 2006 he co-directed the documentary, Ancient Light.

Mark’s unique approach to working with actors and characters (The Travis Technique) has gained the attention of directors, writers and actors worldwide and is becoming a standard approach for stimulating powerful performances.

Since 1992 Mark has been sharing his techniques on writing, acting and directing worldwide.

  • USA: The Directors Guild, American Film Institute, Pixar Animations Studios, UCLA Extension, Taos Talking Pictures Film Festival, Denver Film Festival, Hollywood Actor’s Workshop, Hollywood Film Institute.
  • JAPAN: Film & Media Lab and Vantan Film School.
  • GERMANY: UW Filmseminares, ActionConcept, IFS, and HFF, the Munich Film School.
  • POLAND: The Film Farm in Kotla.
  • ENGLAND: Raindance, Paradigm Film Productions, Hurtwood House, Metropolitan Film School, National Film and Television School, London Film School, Lionhead Studios, London Film Academy.
  • FRANCE: The Cannes Film Festival,
  • NETHERLANDS: The Maurits Binger Institute.
  • UKRAINE: HSU in Kiev, OIFF in Odessa;
  • RUSSIA: International Film Actors Workshop,
  • IRELAND: FAS Screen Training Ireland,
  • NORWAY: The Norwegian Film School,
  • DENMARK: The National Film School ofDenmark,
  • SPAIN: afilm International Film Workshops,
  • CZECH REPUBLIC: FAMU Academy of Film and Television.

Mark has served as a Creative Consultant on several feature films including: Here’s Herbie; Notorious; Not Forgotten; The Stoning of Soraya M,; Black Irish; Men of Honor; Barbershop; Barbershop 2; The Day Reagan Was Shot; Norma Jean, Jack and Me and television episodes of: Lois and Clark; The Pretender; Picket Fences, 90210, Melrose Place; Strong Medicine; NYPD Blue; The Practice and Ally MacBeal.

Mark is the author of the Number-One Best Seller (L.A. Times), THE DIRECTOR’S JOURNEY: the Creative Collaboration between Directors, Writers and Actors. His second book on directing, DIRECTING FEATURE FILMS (published in April of 2002) is currently used as required text in film schools worldwide. His next book, THE FILM DIRECTOR’S BAG OF TRICKS will be published in September 2011.

Please enjoy my conversation with Mark Travis.

Mark Travis 0:00
But if I staged her to a point of comfort and I asked for discomfort now she's getting mixed messages. And quite honestly, Alex, the actress may not know that she's getting mixed messages. She just knows she has to do one thing at that moment. She's feeling comfortable. I'm asking for discomfort. She's gonna have to do something you don't want. She's gonna have to act.

Alex Ferrari 0:23
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur how to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com. I like to welcome back to the show returning champion Mark Travis.

Mark Travis 0:40
I'm totally great. I didn't expect returning champion.

Alex Ferrari 0:45
You were in episode 154. Very well, a variable received episode over the years how to direct the character not the actor, which was your The Travis Technique and all that stuff. And it was a fantastic conversation. We it's almost two hours if I remember. It was a long conversation about that. And because it was just a unique way of a director approaching raft, it was just completely different. But it's been a while you're you're due back, sir. You're you're you're late, you should have been back years ago. But but in this episode, we're really going to focus on another area that you're really trying to change the game and as well as staging. So before we get into staging, can you tell everybody a little bit about yourself, where you come from how you got into the business?

Mark Travis 1:37
Yeah, first of all, I'm a director, writer, actor, and all that in this business, how I got into this business, which is really important. And anything we're discussing is, I came into this world through theater. And it was when I was in college, I discovered theater and something clicked. And I started working a lot in theater, and studying theater. And I went to Yale Drama School to study as a director in the MFA program. And that's how I got into this business. And then somehow, I ended up in Los Angeles and started studying film. The reason I mentioned the theater part is because my career has done a very, all by itself, an interesting shift, which I was not expecting many years ago, I was directing, I was directing television, I directed my first feature film, which did not do well. And there was for a major studio known as Warner Brothers. And we could talk about that and why not to do what I did. But then if you know, we're your first film with a major studio, if it doesn't do well, boy, you you have a big albatross on your back anyway. That but that led me to where I am now into teaching, ironically. And what I discovered is everything I've learned everything I know all the skills I've acquired. My teaching, has done two things. First of all, it has given me a whole nother projected in terms of the work I'm doing, teaching, consulting, coaching, and all that. But the important thing about teaching anything, but especially a craft like filmmaking, is you'll get questions like, Why did you do it this way? Or how do you do this? Or why do you do that? And you have to come up with an answer. Now the thing is, most of what we do as directors, or so much of what we do is by instinct, intuition. I'm gonna put the camera here, I'm gonna direct it this way. No, I want it on this location. But if someone asks you a why, to explain to me why you're making that choice in terms of your film, you really have to think about what you have to do as a teacher is look at what you're doing, and try to understand what you're doing, and then be able to explain it to somebody else in such a way that they can understand not necessarily that they have to do that, but they can understand why you're making those choices. So in terms of the staging, which we'll talk about today, staging and terms of storytelling is a very, very important aspect of it, whether it's theatre or film, but we'll talk about theater for a second here or more. In theater, it's all you've got. You've got the play, you've got the cast, you've got the set, you've got the lights, you've got all that staging is your most powerful tool and you have to stage the place somehow. You have to do something, what you don't have a lot of things you don't have in theater. You don't have a camera, you don't have multiple takes. You don't have editing, you don't have all those tools that we have and rely heavily on in filmmaking. So staging has to work and you have to learn in theater, which I did and still I still direct theater. How can I focus The audience the way I want them to be, how can I highlight something? How can I stimulate the actors? How can I use this tool, I have to use this tool, the stage to make the play work. So that's suicide when I started teaching, film directing. And once again, we're looking at a scene and many times, I'd look at a scene that a student would bring in, and I'd say, Okay, this is good. But you know, the staging is off. Let me show you something. And I would show them something, they say, How did you do that? Suddenly, the scene would change. Now I have to figure out why. After years of directing why I'm making that choice, and how does it come to me. So this is a serious part of my work now, in my work now to, which we haven't discussed yet, Alex, but I will happy to is, I am trying to be very clearly in these coming years, I focus on a couple of things, one, understand what I do and why I do it, and how it works and why it works. And the other is, and that's why I'm doing podcasts, and a lot of online teaching, is to record all of it. So it's there. It's a legacy project. So I can say, I have recorded this, I've stopped writing books, because I can't write a book well enough, that you can see what I'm doing. But I can record something, I can record a video I can. And so now a lot of my teaching, I'm using a lot of video and a lot of film clips. So you can actually see the process and see the change, you have to see it, you can't just read about it. So that's where I am now. And I'm doing a lot of online seminars, workshops. I'm in the middle of one now, which is on staging, ironically, and which we'll finish up next week. I'm doing those in order for me to continue to do this exploration, and then share all the ideas with other filmmakers around the world.

Alex Ferrari 7:02
Fantastic. I've always been fascinated with your teaching technique and what you've been doing. But since you brought it up, I need to go back and ask your first feature or a feature that you did with Warner's going under? I'm not mistaken.

Mark Travis 7:19
And that's what it did.

Alex Ferrari 7:21
Went straight down to the bottom. But I mean, the cast I mean, you had Bill Pullman, you had net, and a bunch of other cast cast the character.

Mark Travis 7:33
Roddy McDowell doing an impression of Mr. Rogers in the film. I bet no, I had some amazing actors.

Alex Ferrari 7:43
So with so when you when you went through that process, and this I always love it, I love digging into these kind of conversations in the stories, because filmmakers don't understand. And yeah, it was the 90s. And it's a different world than it was today and things like that. But a lot of the core lessons are still there. So right when they're you made your movie didn't do well. The town threw you into directors jail, basically, if that's that's generally what happens, right?

Mark Travis 8:09
Especially, what happens is the budget of this, by the way, it was wrong. 9 million, which to them was pocket change.

Alex Ferrari 8:17
So that's like an equivalent of maybe a 50 or $60 million studio movie today. Not dollar wise, but scope wise of what you

Mark Travis 8:26
Scope wise. Yes. And it's one of those a little bit about that we we myself and the two writers. We're seeking to make it for 3 million independently. And Warner Brothers got interested in as a lot of that's a long story, which has something to do with Bronx Tale of why they were interested because I create A Bronx Tale anyway. And so they wanted to talk to me, but as soon as the student they took it over as a independent project that they were just going to do a negative pickup on. And then they decided they Warner Brothers decided to produce it. They said no, no, it's not going to be a negative. And that's when it went from 3 million suddenly to 9 million. And getting back to what you're talking about. Did anything change? No, it just got more expensive. And all the vendors that we had already lined up to work on this project. Suddenly their prices went up when it said Warner Brothers shot and I got I got more money, but I can't do anymore. I can't do more with it. But I got more money to spend but but that's it. So so what happened was it exploded financially. And it also exploded in terms of studio control.

Alex Ferrari 9:46
And that's it. Yeah, the studio at the same time. Start to crawl up your butt.

Mark Travis 9:50
Yep, absolutely. And there were a lot of other stories If you want to talk about them later. I can. It's a long painful, beautiful but painful story. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 9:59
So Yeah, and it's just a classic tale of what happens in the studio system. Unless you're a big hitter, and you can, you're the 800 pound gorilla. Or you can walk around with Scott and do whatever the hell you want a different conversation when it's your first time out, and you got to chat.

Mark Travis 10:17
Now one little thing, I'll make this short. Bob Daley, who is head of Warner Brothers at the time, and when the film was finished, and he wanted to meet with me, and we had a very nice meeting. And I'm not going to get into all of this right now. But the internal politics of a major studio, once they are producing your film, you're, you're part of that. And you're part of, and you get into the competition between executives between them that it's like the world's most dysfunctional family. And all Bob Daley could say to me afterwards, he says, I'm sorry, Mark, you're just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Had nothing to do with the film, the quality of the film it had to do with the internal politics that was going on the wars that were going on.

Alex Ferrari 11:04
And I can only imagine what's going on at Warner Brothers again with that girl, they just shelled the 100 million dollar finished film.

Mark Travis 11:14
I know. Extraordinary. That Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 11:17
I mean, they'll dump it on HBO Max. I mean, how bad they've released Catwoman like what? How bad is bad girl that they just so you know, the politics? You know, how many people lost their jobs during that, that there's so much stuff going on?

Mark Travis 11:34
It's the walls effect if they really if they released it now, even just streaming? Do you know how many people would want to see Oh, my God, how bad is this really?

Alex Ferrari 11:44
Was like cats. I mean, cats was so bad. Yeah, that it's the worst thing to happen to cats and dogs. But my favorite line, your favorite. That's great. I'm right. That was good. It was a Twitter review. I was like, oh my god, that is amazing. I stopped 20 minutes in I couldn't I just couldn't go any farther. And that would be so so bad. But I got to start to watch it. And the only reason I wanted to watch it was how bad is this? Yeah.

Mark Travis 12:13
And you found out? And that's good. So it was what you expected or worse anyway, but that's

Alex Ferrari 12:20
And that's the thing too, with bad girl is that you're right. If there's a reason why it's not being released, and it's politics, Internal. Internal politics is the only reason why it's not getting released. Because there's value there. Even if it's a bet look, Warner Brothers puts out bad movies. They've put out a ton of bad movies in the in the history of Warner Brothers. Yeah, what made this one so special of how bad is it? It's insane. But anyway, that just wanted to kind of go go wander with you again, take you back to the some of the worst times of your life and really relive them, sir.

Mark Travis 12:52
Yes, thank you. Thank you. So it got so bad I ended up in the hospital. So there.

Alex Ferrari 13:00
I know many directors. I've had panic attacks on set. Oh, it's it's not it's not a fun. It's not an easy job. Now, there's a question I wanted to ask you. You've talked about the four languages of cinema, what are the four languages of cinema?

Mark Travis 13:15
Four languages. Well, first of all, there is the visual language, which we which is a whole nother subject, which is huge, because it's a visual medium. So is that visual, and when I say language is that we you as the filmmaker are actually communicating with your audience through these four languages. So what one is the visual however you shoot it, the looks, the production design, the aesthetics, the CGI, whatever it is, there's that visual language. The second language is very clearly the dialogue which is a language that's usually in English, whatever, but that dialogue and how in the script and how in the final film, you're using dialogue, how dialogue is communicating with the audience, and all four languages are communicating the the audience simultaneously. The third language is sound, aside from dialogue, but a sound sound effects music, and however you're using the element of audio and sound to tell your story. Now, the fourth one, which I've never heard anybody else talk about this, but this is this is me, this is my way look at the fourth one is staging. Because and this is why staging, I talked about the Power of Staging staging is way more powerful than most people really understand. Because of some very basic things now staging just to define it or blocking whatever you want to call it. Blocking is more of a theater term staging is more of a film term doesn't matter. It's pretty much the same thing. I'm telling Talking about the movement of the characters in the space and the environment that are in, I'm talking about characters in relationship moving in relationship to each other. I'm talking about relationship to the room or the space, and even very specifically, very powerfully, a character's movement in relationship to him or herself, which is very simply body language body line. Now, all of these movements, communicate with the audience. If you have two people talking to each other, for instance, like this, and one turns away from the other, that staging, because we look at that, and we go, oh, what's going on? Something's going on. So even the most minut things, even if you get into really micro staging, it can be a look, a look at that character. Now, maybe this is choice of this look, from one character to another was made in post production, but that staging is communication, it is a language. Now there are two things about staging that are really essential, and from my perspective, and my experience is I can take two actors in a room, say in an office, and they're doing a scene, they say it's an interview scene, and someone's interviewing for a job or something like that. And I know that with these two people, I have two people. And I have a space, which is just an office, there's nothing really extraordinary about the office, it's fine, it belongs to one guy, and not to the young woman will say it's the boss and the young woman. But I know as I move these two, I just want to talk about the actors. Now forget the characters for a moment. Where I start the scene, if I start that office interview with the boss sitting behind his desk, and she walks in, and I walk and I stage it I say walk in, I walk her into a space, where she is not near any furniture, she has no support as I stopped there. I just know that move will affect her the actress emotionally, she will feel unsupported, she'll feel insecure something. If I walk her in and have her sit on a chair in front of his desk, she'll have another emotional experience automatically. Now, the wonderful thing about actors really good actors is they will allow themselves to be open to whatever the staging is doing to them. So I can stage these two actors in a way to trigger emotions in both actors.

If I start out the scene, she's going to walk in, but he's at the window looking out of the window, she's going to have a different emotional reaction when she sees him. And he'll feel differently, I can put him in positions of power, I can put him in positions where he'll lose power, all of that. So in other words, staging, when you're staging actors. Remember, it's not just about the way it looks on the set, or the way it looks on camera. And for the moment, I would say, forget the cameras for a moment, you got to make it work organically with these actors. That's when you're staging remember that you are triggering, no matter what you do, anything you do, it's triggering an emotion within the actor. And what you want to do is triggered the emotion that the actor needs for the character. If if you say to that young woman coming in for the interview, if you bring her in and sit her down in a chair in a nice chair in front of the office, and you say to her, how do you feel she says, Great, this is good. Now she's comfortable. And then you say to her, Okay, let's do the same. Remember, you're really uncomfortable. While you now you're at cross purposes, your staging has said, Be comfortable. Your direction has said be uncomfortable. It's better to put her in a place where she's uncomfortable.

And in fact, when I'm staging something, if I'm staging this young woman, I say I come in here, just stand here. How do you feel what standing here away from all this furniture and this sort of no man zone, and she's, this doesn't feel good, I'll say good. And many times the actual go Got it. Got it. In other words, they understand this is an important part of staging. I can communicate with an actor what I want from the actor, just by the way, I staged them. But if I staged her to a point of comfort, and I asked for discomfort, now she's getting mixed messages. And quite honestly, Alex, the actress may not know that she's getting mixed messages. She just knows she has to do one thing at that moment. She's feeling comfortable. I'm asking her discomfort. She's going to have to do something you don't want. She's going to have to act. She's gonna have to, she's gonna have to pretend to be uncomfortable, find discomfort, go through a sense memory, whatever she's going to have to do. I'm trying to avoid that kind of acting, which you know from my run During the view about work directing the the character rather than the actor, that I don't want her to act. The what's really clear to me about characters and emotional states is that all of us are characters in our lives. And you and I are Alex right now, whatever with whatever's going on. And what we deal with as we go through our lives is we get hit by a lot of stimuli, we get hit by thoughts, we get hit by what we see what we hear what we taste, and we go, and we have emotional reactions, we see somebody that we didn't want to see and hope never to see you again. And suddenly we're upset or angry or afraid. In other words, all this stimuli comes. And this also stimuli from within us our thoughts, our patterns. So we go through life having a emotional reactions to our daily existence. And what we do is we deal with those emotional reactions as best as we can. When you see that person, then suddenly, you know, it's all It feels very romantic, you go, Oh, my God, she's so gorgeous, you try to deal with that the best that you may be, you try to hold on to that. That's what we do, we do not go through life very important, trying to stimulate emotional reactions. So when you say to the actress who's very comfortable, I want you to be uncomfortable. Remember, you're very uncomfortable. Now she's gonna have to stimulate something that she's genuinely not feeling at all. So there's this huge disconnect. So staging is a way not only of communicating to the actors what you want, but it's also triggering those emotions inside the actress. Now, as you do that, again, forget the cameras for a moment, as you do that, and you watch it, or anybody watches it. Now we're back to theater for a bit a little bit, as the audience watches that the audience by projection will respond as well. She comes into the office, she's standing in a very uncomfortable place, she's feeling uncomfortable, but the audience goes, Oh, my God, that's so uncomfortable with that. In other words, the audience is now help you are helping the audience help you connect with what's really going on. So you're actually through the staging, not only communicating with the actors, and then the characters, you're also communicating with the audience. Your staging is telling the audience exactly what's happening inside the characters. So it's a very powerful, that's why it becomes a language. It's a language between you and the actor, the character and the audience. Staging is a language.

Alex Ferrari 22:39
So what happens when an actor decides to go his or her own way in a scene where there's like an improv or they seem to want to go somewhere else? And it's not exactly what you either discussed, or, you know, it's a little bit more fluid, they want to act a little bit more fluid and not hit marks and do turns and they just want to be more in the moment. And, and there are actors, obviously, who love to be in the moment. And we'd love that. Well, how do you in this scenario? How would you deal with that?

Mark Travis 23:09
Well, it gets very tricky. I mean, you have to as an individual director, I'm talking to you, Alex, but anybody who's listening you as a director have to decide for yourself with that project, who will say you know, project by project this can change how you want to handle that how strict you want to be in terms of that kind of movement, and even in dialogue. Are you going to if they want to improvise movements, are they also improvising dialogue? how loose you want this project to be, or this scene how you wanted to, then I've done some projects where scenes are heavily, heavily improvised, but that's just that one scene in the movie. Because I felt with that scene, this is how I'm going to find something even better. So you have to decide. But getting back to what you're saying, the actor says no, no, no, don't tell me where to go. Don't tell me what to do. I'll figure it out. Two things and I'll tell you a quick story about the Actors Studio, something that happened there. The one thing we all of us human beings by instinct, will do we go through life doing tooth very simple things. We go through life seeking comfort, and avoiding conflict. So as an actor coming into a scene by instinct of that being that person this has nothing to do with actors and has to do with that he or she is a human being will seek comfort. They will go to a place on the set of the stage or in relationship to the other actors that feels good. And it will most often feel good to the actor has nothing to do with a character. So they will seek comfort and they will avoid conflict. Now we're telling stories. And as you know, as a writer and director, what are more So my stories are about discomfort and conflict. That's it. If you don't have discomfort and conflict, what do you have? You have a boring story, and you'd have. So all of us by instinct will do that. So you gotta, you gotta be aware of that my job when I'm staging, and I will tell the actors as when I'm staging a scene, I said, Listen, my job as the director is to get your character into trouble. Your job as the actor through the character is to try to figure out how to get out. That's it. In other words, I am going to create the conflict, I'm going to create the problems that the character is experiencing you through the character try to do is try to work now that gets us back, closer to what real life is like, we go through life, we have a problem, we try to work our way I want to duplicate or represent as closely as I can authentic behavior, not planned behavior, not planned emotions, not planned line readings and things like that. I want to create an environment where the actor as the character is, is working on instinct as the character. And one way to do that, literally. And I could show this is to take away from the character, the opportunity to just go wherever he wants. And people say, well, there isn't that kind of controlling? Absolutely, it is. But I'll tell you something else. It's very controlling in this business, somebody wrote a lot of words that says, This is what the character says, now there's control right there. This, this is part of part of what we're doing. We got these lines. And now if you want to get into the technical part, yeah, you got a camera here, you got lights there, you can't just go anywhere, because you go to that corner, there's no light there. You know, it's, the whole process is major control. But what I'm aiming for is that kind of major control, you got the dialogue, and you got the staging.

And But within that, which goes back to the interrogation process, total, a total emotional freedom, I'm not going to tell the actor or require the actor respond emotionally in any, any way at any time. I want it to be on instinct at that moment, under the pressures of all of this control. So that's, that's the dynamic I want to set up. But to go one step further with your question, if you want to go into this, or you have let me go back to what you said the other this actor said, No, don't tell me where to go. Don't tell me what to do. You know, give the give the actor a break, say, Okay, let me see it. Let me see what you're gonna do. Let me see, you may be surprised you make a hole, that's, that's actually a little bit better than what I had. Let's but then you got to lock it down a little bit. You can't say every take, it's gonna be all over the place, you can't do that. So you got you got to give the actor the benefit of the doubt that they may have something or you may end up which often is the case of a combination between what you were thinking and what the actor was thinking. And you find that middle ground, which is actually a richer collaboration combination of the two.

Alex Ferrari 28:14
My from my experience, I found that if you hire the right actors, they generally know the character much better than you do. They've done a lot more homework on the specific character, and given the character backstory, and all sorts of things. So they might do a little bit of business, that really adds a lot of value. And they might just do a movement or maybe just crossing the arms or crossing the legs or turning the bar and doing so adds so much to the scene that you might have not seen coming. So I would love to collaborate with the actors. But you're right, at a certain point, there has to be okay, is this what we're doing? We gotta lock that down. Okay, great. In this scene, let's talk about the scene. And maybe and we'll talk about rehearsals in a little bit. But maybe in rehearsals, a lot of this was kind of worked out as well. In in that process. But my next question is, how does staging reveal subtext? Staging has a unique ability to do that?

Mark Travis 29:10
Yes, yeah. Yes, it does. I'm gonna go back to the thing I talked about before two people talking to one turns. One turns away from these two people talk and listen, I'll have him turn towards the camera. This one turns towards the camera. So let's say these are two men talking to each other and their brothers. We know that they're brothers and they're discussing what to do about that. And this one says, I think we should put them in a home. So at this point, we should have to put them in a retirement home. And this one just turns and says nothing. I just want to ask you, Alex, what does that mean?

Alex Ferrari 29:50
Oh, it can mean a bunch of different things.

Mark Travis 29:53
Now we're gonna subtext. Now we're into subtext.

Alex Ferrari 29:55
Yeah. Just something as simple as a turn a turn. Yeah.

Mark Travis 29:59
And that's subtext, I'm not, I'm not saying what it means what I'm what I'm doing is I'm creating an opportunity for you, the viewer to start to project in what you think it means, even though the person sitting next to you might think you'd be thinking something different doesn't matter, I want to trigger the subtext to open up that subtextual zone for the audience member to fill it in, which is an important part of storytelling or filmmaking, where we are triggering the audience to participate in the telling of the story, not just watch. And I think the most engaging films that any of us have ever seen are the ones that ended for you or for me, individually, where we have been able to participate a lot. It has triggered our motion has triggered our projections as we feel like we have participated somehow in the telling of that story.

Alex Ferrari 30:54
And yet without question, without question, and one other thing about the staging process, if an actor has quirks or something that is very specific to them, should you include those in the staging? How would you include those in the staging

Mark Travis 31:10
The quirks like what I mean. No, no, let me let me ask you more specifically, are you talking to the actor himself? has these quirks are the actor is? Or is the Okay, the other part of it? My question was, what is this quirks he's developed for the character? Both? Both?

Alex Ferrari 31:27
It could be both it could be something that he literally, or she literally as in as a part of them, or they developed the lamp, the shake, whatever, you know, the handshake, whatever it is that they've developed? How do you incorporate that in the staging is incorporated a station?

Mark Travis 31:46
Yeah, my first question would be you said a limp or soft or something like that. My first question would be for that character, let's say something that's creative, not something that the actor has. How is that helping? The story? How is that helping flesh out the character? Why is how is that affecting the character? How is important that to the character we're trying to render? That's really a conversation between you and the actor. So you Okay, you've got this limp. That's interesting. Here's what I think is going to you know, it's a you do have the final decision. But even you know, you have to have that conversation with the actor, what is your thinking here, it's not in the script. Could be an interesting idea. I don't want something in there, that's going to create a black hole for the audience. They go, I don't get it. What why the limp is not going to be brought up in the script. Because, you know, it's just something that's there. And if you can make it somehow elemental to the character, you can make it make it somehow that it becomes an interesting part of the character. That then it's fascinating. It's not like the usual suspects where Kevin Spacey has that you know, straight and that he shakes it off at the end. That's that's a whole

Alex Ferrari 33:04
Yeah, but you look at Dustin Hoffman in Rain, man. I mean, his whole movement is erratic, because that's his character. So he's, he's doing his thing he's walking. Yep, he's artistic. So that will affect staging like, how? So that's why that was kind of like the question.

Mark Travis 33:22
And then with somebody I mean, the Rain Man thing is a good example. Your question whether if you have this one character who has this erratic behavior, you as the director to think, Okay, how to deal with the other characters respond to this? Are they aware of this? Does it bother them? Is it you know, now in rain man who was a big thing between Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman, those two characters, as brothers, you know, because he's dealing with this autistic brother, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it can't be just a quirk for the sake of isn't that an interesting quirk, because that won't be an interesting quirk if it becomes a significant part of it. Now, the other part of what you're asking is if the actor himself has this quirk and a lot of actors have quirks which we've seen over and over and over again. And the if it's a quirk that we're very accustomed to me for some reason, I'm thinking of Owen Wilson and facial expressions and, you know, things like that we've seen a million times he's a great person to imitate, I guess, you know, say, do I want that? Do I want that or with a skilled actor? Do I want to eliminate that? Do I want to have him shift into a character who does not have the quirks he has?

Alex Ferrari 34:45
Like I was thinking of someone like Daniel Day Lewis in There will be blood movements are so kind of through the wall kind of movements. He's very powerful. He's very imposing with his movements. You know, and when he walks in a room, she just walks very differently than he did in Lincoln. Let's say. It's extremely difficult, right? So as a director, you're looking at them like, okay, so he's bringing this energy. And if it's Daniel Day, obviously, this is a different conversation. You go, Mr. Lewis, how, how are you going to walk into scene? Let's figure this out how we work. But if but if you have an actor that is bringing that kind of energy to the scene, which is is part of the character, that was the kind of question like, how do we work it and there might be that erratic pneus around it and the Rain Man and Tom Cruise situation is they're both very opposite ones very erratic. And Tom Cruise generally is stoic, you know, controlled everything. The only thing that's knocks him off kilter is Raman Raman is the one who does not come off kilter and things like right, so it was just it was just an interesting, just curious to see how we approach it. I think we answered the question.

Mark Travis 35:59
Yeah, but let me go back to it. There will be blood in Daniel Day Lewis. And you're right. I mean, Daniel Day Lewis has a whole conversation by this by itself, but an actor who is taking on a behavior or physical behavior like that, because they feel like, first of all, that probably empowers them to get into the, you know, you don't want to just take it away. And I think for There will be blood that it was very appropriate for this character who basically was bulldozing his way through life and through everybody else, and didn't care. So it sort of represented that. But think about this as the director, you have to think about this character. Again, the same character, there will be blood. Is that the way he always moves? Or do we see a moment when it drops away? A private moment? Can we see? In other words, what can you do in relationship to this moment moment, see a moment where he is vulnerable, and he is alone. And he is private, that we can see what I call the window of true nature, that window of true nature of a character's Who is he really is this a facade that he has developed? Maybe over the years, in the end, he will always behave that way. But it'd be beautiful for a moment to see that when it falls away, when it doesn't serve him.

Alex Ferrari 37:19
The man the armor is off, the mask is off, and it's off.

Mark Travis 37:24
And then it becomes even more chilling, because we've seen something privately that Paul Daniel and all the other characters in that movie have never seen and we, the audience get to see that.

Alex Ferrari 37:36
Yeah, I mean, you look at some a character like Hannibal Lecter, and Sansa lambs. I mean, Jesus, we're talking about two different energies. I know he's, he shows the facade. But then his true nature comes out when he's literally eating a guard. Later on, but we see him as this beautifully, poised, elegant, speak, listen to your music. But the moment he has an opportunity, the true nature comes up. And that's what drives that's really the one of the most chilling parts about that, about that character is that he puts on one face, and we fall in love with a cannibal until you see him eat, act erratically as a violent person.

Mark Travis 38:24
It's interesting that in the course that I'm doing now the staging course last week, speaking of Anthony Hopkins, last week, we were looking at the father, I don't know if you've seen the Father.

I've heard of it. I haven't seen it. I highly recommend it

It's a man who's dealing with dementia. Yes, I'll give you a and his daughter is trying to bring in a caretaker to take care of him. So basically, so she can leave town. That's simple. And she has brought in a potential caretaker and he knows exactly what she's doing and doesn't want it. And he meets the caretaker. And he's excellent. And he's charming. And he's delightful, you know, and basically showing I don't need any help. He goes off for a moment to get his watch. Now he's alone. He's coming back. And there's one moment Alex, where he's coming back to talk to the caretaker and his daughter again, and he stops in the hallway. And he just stops. And all he does is stop. And you see oh my god. That's a moment. So what I call an empty moment, a moment that you could put project anything you want into it was Is it fear? Is it Indecision is no what is going on? And then a moment later, bam, he's back in the room and He's entertaining. Now that little moment is a moment of true nature. What's really going on with that character? And it's all done through staging. It's not in the dialogue. It's not, it's not probably in the script. I have the script. It doesn't say that he does that in the script. It says he can comes back with the watch. But there's that moment which he may, quite honestly, clearly at the Hopkins may have just done on his own comes back and he stops just thinking, thinking, and maybe he's thinking about how am I going to handle this problem? Maybe he's thinking I'm in trouble. Maybe Maybe he's got where he was a second maybe? Yes, exactly. All that all those maybes which we go, are I go? What's going on? Are you okay? Are you okay? Then he comes back in and he seems fine, but there's the cover the mask we were talking about, and there's the cover. So all done through staging, staging, is that powerful?

Alex Ferrari 40:43
Now, what is micro staging you said that earlier Can you talk a little bit about micro staging

Mark Travis 40:48
Yeah, well, you're doing it right now that was that was That was lovely.

Alex Ferrari 40:58
That was that was that Doc thing acting sir. That was acting. Anyone, you should watch the video guys to see my performance I just put on there with micro staging.

Mark Travis 41:08
Okay, this mic, these are my terms, micro staging and macro staging macro staging for a moment is walk over to the to the desk, sit down those those pretty much those big moves, you know, and even in an action adventure action thing, you know, this I mean, a fight sequences, all macro macro, macro. Micro staging can be this simple. Two people sitting at a table. This is why say you're doing it now. And one person is talking to the say it's a at a restaurant, a cafe, as a man and woman, woman is talking to the man about something doesn't matter what it is right now. And the man is I'll give you two scenarios to staging. So both of them micro, the man is just sitting there listening and nodding. Or the man is looking down at his fork and moving it. Now those two are totally different. Totally to add some micro, the tiniest little movement, or two, take it one step further. The man is listening to her right. And she's talking about people, we don't know who they are. And she she mentioned George. And on George, he looks down at the fork and picks it up. What does that say? That's microstate G. He has actually changed his behavior, that little shift there. Again, it opens it opens up that space that we go something about George, what is it about Jeff? She mentioned George, he shifted. If I just said to him as as an actor. You know, when she says George, just look down to the fork and pick it up and go, Okay. Easy to do. Very easy to do. Anybody can do it. You don't have to be a trained actor to do that. But that we see a shift in the character. And they can easily be something just in terms of eye movement. And a lot of very skilled actors. You watch them if you watch Anthony Hopkins, or you watch Meryl Streep or Daniel Day Lewis, or some of these people, Olivia Coleman, you watch them you can you watch for those little things that they're doing sometimes, maybe by plan, often, just by instinct, because there's so into the character, these tiny little, you want to make sure you capture that. And those are micro stages. Those are the micro staging. More than the macro stages are the ones that allow us in deep inside the character.

Alex Ferrari 43:36
That's it also reveals subtext when you do that. Absolutely, absolutely. So like the example of George with the fork. It's something simple, so simple, so small, but it says volumes. So if you're talking to me and I start yawning, that could either mean I'm just tired, or I'm bored, or I don't want to be here. And then you can insert what you want there. And it's just in the eye movements and things like that a look is worth 1000 words, and just God

Mark Travis 44:12
Give me another example, husband and wife in the kitchen. This isn't a real Sam just making it up husband and wife in the kitchen. He's sitting at the kitchen table, maybe some papers and stuff. Whatever he's doing there. That's his independent activity he's got and they're talking, he's talking about his work. And she's at the sink with her back to him washing dishes, very simple. And he's talking about work and she's washing the dishes and washing the dishes. And he mentions his boss and a client. And then he mentioned his secretary Cheryl, on the word Cheryl, she stops washing and he keeps talking. And maybe a moment later she starts washing again or she puts the plate down That's micro staging. That's some text. And he's not looking at her, she's not looking at him. But it's a little piece of behavior we expect. When someone's doing an activity like washing the dishes, they'll just keep washing the dishes until they're done. Those independent activities is such a powerful territory for staging, that you can make a slight adjustment in it. That is powerful. This one that I just explained, I was in teaching in Munich, I remember this and some actors were sitting at a table, were asking me about exactly what you're asking me about. So I had the two actors, doing some I gave one of them an independent activity, whatever she was doing, and the other one had to improvise a monologue. But she had to get the name like, I'll use Georgia George in it. And I asked the first one, I said, when do you hear the word, George? Now, these are two actors hear the word George's, you're going to stop that activity. Right? And hold and freeze until I release you. And I say, and I say action again. So they did. So this is totally improvised. So these two actors when I said the one said, George, and the other one stopped, I could see her the one who stopped started shaking, just shaking. And then I said, action. And she went back to and then two seconds later, she jumped out to see what Oh, my God, I said, what happened? She was I don't know. She says that was so powerful. In other words, that staging to her, she knew what she was going to do. But she had no idea how it was going to impact her. And the other one had a similar thing that she said, Georgia, she saw this react, so they emote, they the two actors responded emotionally to it. And that's how powerful it is.

Alex Ferrari 46:48
And if you can capture it on camera, then, yeah, you got money.

Mark Travis 46:52
Yeah, and the great thing, like what we're talking about independent activities, and some of those Microsoft, they can do it again and again and again and again, take up to take up to take exactly the same thing. And being skilled actors, they will allow the impact to happen every time just allow it. It could easily not have it happened. But you don't want to stop it from that you want it to happen. You want that, because that's part of what you're doing. That's part of the character and part of the moment. So it'll always work.

Alex Ferrari 47:22
So now let's say you're in rehearsals, and your staging and rehearsals, the actors are working worked out these micro stages worked at the macro stages. And we you know, we kind of had an idea of what the scenes going to be like, then we go on the day to location, and the location dropped out, we got this other new location that's completely different than what you've done. You've got five minutes, 10 minutes to restage this, what do you do?

Mark Travis 47:49
First of all, I'm in the initial rehearsal use stage at for one location. And but what you actually hopefully if it was staged, well, you did explore and you found the essence of the scene, and how the staging was helping you get to the essence of that scenes, and what's really going on between those characters. Now, the staging is helping you do that. That's what you have to rely on as the essence of what you achieved. Now, you now you look at the new location, and you say, okay, actors, we have to change the staging, but we're staying with what we achieved. Aha, the relationship between the two of you that sense of betrayal or the surprise of this moment, but we're gonna have to restage it very quickly, still going for what we had, but in a new location. So it's not do the same staging. Its render the the essence of the scene in a slightly different way, but still getting what the scene is really about what the, the arc of the scene is, what the transformation in the scene is, what the shift in the relationship is the cuecore moment of the scene, you're still getting all that you just have to do it a different way. And that's why I recommend to directors when you sit me down even before rehearsal, figure out how you want to stage the scene, the three different ways, three different ways in the same location, you have this location, it's the kitchen or whatever, three different ways. Doing it three, two, and a three dramatically different ways. I mean, and for instance, you can stage it in a way that okay, this is going to take a long time to shoot because there's a lot of movement, but boy, I like it good. Staging, again, when there's no movement, very little movement, where you're relying on micro staging more than macro staging. So if you get there and you only got two hours to shoot the scene, okay, I'm going to shift, I have to shift to something that's simpler. Or, as you've mentioned before, the actor comes up with an idea if you have three different ways of doing it. They're going to come within one of those, you have all these options you can go to and if you've done it in three different ways, they all seem like they kind of work for you You have been hitting on the essence of the scene, what's really going on the scene. The staging is not the scene, the staging reveals the scene. So, so if you've done three with different ways it can be revealed. And you may get on the set and do the one you like the most and go, Gee, I don't know, Wait, man, I got another idea, you may just shift because you're going I know, this is not working, as well as I thought it was going to. Hopefully, because of my background in theatre, I'm really advocating this, hopefully, you've had rehearsal time with the actors. And I don't mean rehearsal on the set, because that's really not rehearsal time. That's just that's you eating up production time, is very expensive rehearsal time, you're very, you should not be rehearsing on the set, you should be reviewing what you did or clarifying what you're going to do. And that's it not exploring, oh, how am I gonna stage this scene? I need to do do that earlier.

Alex Ferrari 50:57
No. And the thing that I love about this technique is that you you basically are able to adjust on the fly to whatever scenario comes from because you have multiple angles multiple ways to cover the motorways to stage the scene, right, but they all reveal the essence of the scene in different ways. And if you can get the essence, then you could put it in a box, or you could put it in a very complicated location is still going to reveal the same thing. There might be the chess pieces will be moved a little bit. But the essence

Mark Travis 51:32
Exactly, yes, that that's you. That's what you have to capture the essence of the scene.

Alex Ferrari 51:38
Now you've talked about in the past inner dialogue? Can you talk a bit about inner dialogue? And how does that work? Or help non verbal scenes and scenes? That is literally just two people looking at each other or very Hitchcockian in that way. So what is inner dialogue? And how can that be used?

Mark Travis 51:56
Well, inner inner dialogue is first of all, it is very important, because it is exactly what it sounds like. It's inner. And it is a dialogue. It's not, we don't usually just have thoughts, we usually have a dialogue. You know, I think I'll do it. No, that's not a good idea. That's a dialogue, you got two voices going on. Or you're looking at another character and another person you go, I wonder what he's what he's what he's gonna do. No, I don't think he's gonna do that. That's actually you're having a dialogue with yourself. So it is a dialogue. It's not just thoughts. These inner dialogues are crucial, because, number one, we as human beings have them all the time, we're doing it every every day, even, you know, moments before I met with you for this podcast, I'm going through my MO, I'm here alone at the moment. And I'm, I'm having a dialogue. It's preparation is I mean, it's what we do this all the time. So if we do this all the time, we have to assume I have to assume characters, all our characters are doing this. The thing is, it's not written in the script, what they're thinking, if you want if the writer wanted to write that they'd write a novel, this is not a novel, this is a screenplay, all we have is the spoken dialogue. The other aspect of this, which we talked about, I think last time in 2017, is, in our minds, all of us, we have what I call the committee, which is all the voices, the voices that talk to us, we talk to them, we work things out, they tell us what to do. Some of these voices represent people we know mom and dad and neighbors or whatever. So this is committee going on. And in our mind of discussing things. That committee is really crucial. And now we're getting back to the interrogation process, which we won't go into. But think about it that every character has a committee, every character is rich in thoughts process going on all the time. So if you have that scene that you're talking about, where it's just two people sitting there, let's say it's in a bus station, and the two people are sitting there across from each other, and they're both strangers, I will say, but they're going to meet eventually, but they're just staring at each other. And that's that's the scene, they're just looking at each other. Well, there's got to be a world going on. Inside each other. There's going to be a major dialogue, major conversation inside each of them. And two things. What I do with working with actors, is many times and in fact, I did a film where you can see this how this works. Many times I will have them before the scene just before before we're shooting, verbalize what's going on out loud. Two of them at the same time. They're not really talking to each other, but the two of them just verbalize verbalize, verbalize verbally. They're saying what they're saying. And then they're just waiting to hear Action. Action and what happens on action is the verbalizing stops. But the thoughts keep going. In other words, I actually activate improvise and activate the inner dialogue. So it isn't like, oh, what should I be thinking about? I'm having them say it. And it's very powerful, they are saying it to the other person, because the other person is in the room. But they're not saying it. That's not a dialogue between the other person. So they're exposing it. And the powerful thing about this way of working is those two guys sitting across from each other in the bus stop. They hear what the other person is thinking, now they have a cent now there. And people say, Oh, they shouldn't be hearing what they're thinking is Oh, yeah, they should, because what they're hearing is what they're thinking that the other person is thinking. I mean, I've got to connect these two people somehow. So that inner dialogue is a very, very powerful, very, very powerful tool.

Alex Ferrari 55:45
And it's really interesting, too, sometimes you can give two actors two different motivations, without telling each other what that motivation is, which can be opposed to each other's, you know, going out the scene. And that makes the best scenes ever, because one actor is like, you know, I use the direction once he's like, I need you to when you're yelling at this person, pretend you're trying to communicate to somebody in the other room. And it's in that kind of gives you a level of where I want the volume to be without you going nuts, things like that these little little techniques that you can use along the way. Really help now, how can you create tension with staging?

Mark Travis 56:27
That almost does it all the time. One thing to think about. It's a good question. Staging, this is something I discovered years ago, it suddenly occurred to me, when I was teaching, I would talk about obstacles, character obstacles, and I would say, okay, there are obstacles that come in three categories, other people are obstacles, okay. The environment can be an obstacle, you know, either the physical environment or the social environment, attitudes of whatever, so the society. And the third area is obstacles within yourself, you know, internal obstacles. So those are the categories of obstacles. And as I was teaching, I realized those three categories are the same categories as staging your staging people in relationship to each other, staging people in relationship to the environment and in relationship to themselves, whether it's the body language, or how they want to be seen, or how they are seeing. So. So that's, there's a very strong link between staging and obstacles. And I realized that what I'm doing with staging is I am creating obstacles constantly, constantly, if an actor sits down, so I'm gonna sit in this chair, and I say, okay, sit there, do me a favor, slide forward on the chair, they'll slide but not a little bit further, a little bit. He says, I'm right near the edge, I said, good. I just created an obstacle. He says, This feels uncomfortable, I say, good. And he realizes I have created now this is just an body language. You know, he's, first of all, it looks great, because it looks like he is uncomfortable. I don't know why the character is sitting that way. But he is not comfortable within himself. And this has created an obstacle within the character. And it will actually trigger something in the other character when he sees him sitting there, because the other actor as as the character will also read that behavior, right. And now we're creating now I'm creating tension, I'm creating tension within the body, I can create tension between two listed this has to do with the turning faces or something like that, between two characters, what happens if I have this character move away from him? Now I'm going to create while he's in the middle of that speech, that you know, this one is playing this big speech, and this one starts to move I go, that's that's going to create tension. Or in the environment. Let's say we're in the office of the boss or something like that. And the young woman applying for the job walks behind the boss's desk. While there's a problem. You know, it's not where she's supposed to. We know that when we see the room, we know what the territory is, we know it's his space. And maybe he's gone off to the side of buying a piece of paper or something. And she walked behind. Now I've created tension and not only creating tension between the characters, and creating tension with the audience, the audience, oh, that's dangerous, what's going to happen and I want that the audience to feel that and it has nothing to do with the dialogue. Hopefully, it's all supporting the dialogue supporting the essence of the scene, but through the staging, I'm creating emotional responses in the actors, the characters and the audience. By creating tension and then relieving it when I want to. So you go Ah, okay, now what now we're fine.

Alex Ferrari 59:51
Which by the way, is an art because there are movies that soaps, some some of these more testosterone ridden movie is sometimes don't let go of the tension. They just hold you and hold you. Where becomes very unpleasant for the, for the, for the audience I've had that experience handful of times in watching a movie that the director just wanted to keep it cranking and cranky. Like, no, you got to release the valve. You've got to release the valve a little a little bit. Even it's released the valve.

Mark Travis 1:00:24
Oh, yeah, absolutely. He was a matt he was he was a master of it.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:29
Which speaking of Hitchcock, how do you then create fear with staging you know, intimidation, power, that kind of thing. Kind of like I'm the first scene that comes into my head is the Godfather, where he's in that room, stroking a cat with amazing, which, after watching the offer, which I tell everybody, they should watch the offer, that maybe the TV series about the making up the Godfather, cat. That wasn't masterful direction. He was just a cat that happened to be a series.

Mark Travis 1:01:03
There was a stray cat on the set. That's what I heard that Coppola picked it up and gave it to Brando.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:11
In the show. Brandon's picked it up.

Mark Travis 1:01:13
So he doesn't Yeah, it doesn't matter. But it was like this. And it was a great cat. It was a great cat,

Alex Ferrari 1:01:20
Just chilled and relaxed. He wasn't like, Well, yeah. Because you know, you don't want to include animals into a scenario where you don't have to. But that scene is indicative of power. And there's also lighting and presence. But how can you analyze that scene a little bit in the blocking of it as an example? Or pick another scene if you'd like?

Mark Travis 1:01:39
Yeah, no, no, that's a good scene. But your question was on fear,

Alex Ferrari 1:01:43
Will fear power and intimidation? I mean, he has all of those in that scene.

Mark Travis 1:01:47
Right? Right. And how do you create it?

Alex Ferrari 1:01:52
With stagging

Mark Travis 1:01:54
Well, one thing is, which is part of a staging that is created there is in the silences. You have you have the man across it, you know, my daughter, she was she was raped, I think and I need you know, I need justice. I need justice. And then there's a long silence. And we go Oh, shit. You know, in other words, by with silences, and then the cat helped with that too, because it's a gentleness against something. And, and also in the editing of that scene. It's a long time before we see Brando. We see his hand, we see him from the back. So long, you know, we withhold that for a long time. But this this, the silence is really moment. The even in that scene, he says, you know, you come to me for this help. But when's the last time you showed me respect? Now that's just great writing. Oh, you know, I say this, this is not going to go well. And I think there's something beautiful about that scene. Because at the end of the scene, he says he does say, I will help you, and you owe me because someday I will come someday I will come to you. Maybe never but someday I might. Actually he does in the story. But he's he. But the fear is going to work in the scene as much as you can away from that ending go in the opposite direction. So even in the staging, when Brando finally gets up, and he walks around his desk towards the guy. Now what's going to happen? There's also in the staging of that scene, but because I think Robert Duvall and James Caan are in that scene. And there's early on in the scene, that scene, I think, is a shot. It's a great shot or a divan. Devall is in the foreground, I think it's divots in the foreground, and we can see Brando, the godfather in the background. I think it might be at the moment. I may be wrong about this, but it might be the moment that I think it is that Brando is getting up. Right. He releases the cat and he starts to get up. Well, James Caan and Robert Duvall respond immediately they start to rise, and you go, Whoa, there's power. You know, they rise because they don't know what he's gonna do. But it's like, the boss is Wolverine ready? I I'm ready, and and where they're moving around, they're not going anyplace specific, but they're sort of positioning themselves to be ready. So it creates a tension in the whole room, which the guy asking for the favor. It's got to feel like everybody's moving. Is this good? Or is this bad? And that's what you want to create that fear and create that tension.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:53
And that staging is so powerful because you're absolutely right. Nobody knows who the Godfather is. This is the Now we all do because it's a legendary film. But when that in 72, when people were watching it, nobody knew really what this meant. So just that that staging of he stands, the other two stands, it says volumes about the power that this man wields. In addition to everything else that's going on the scene with the, with the cat, and the lighting and the performance in the dialogue. It all works. But that staging just adds this this gravitas to this man, even more so than he already had nothing mentioned. It's Brando, they already brought us

Mark Travis 1:05:35
Yeah. And also Alex, you're bringing up a great point. And I'm going to refer to Butch Cassidy, who's in a similar way, that that scene with brand, you know, we got the Godfather, we got Brando playing the guy I'm going back to before it's released. And there were a lot of people didn't want Brando, but forget about that. But you you are the director telling the story. And you're going to introduce this main character. And your what do you want? What do you need to establish besides the story, your main thing is you need to establish this guy that we know by the end of the scene, we know who he is. This is your introduction to the audience of who this guy is. And it's actually beautifully done, because it's, in a way in terms of the whole story. It's a relatively insignificant scene. But it's very significant in terms of the introduction, so you've got to pull that off. The reason I said which Cassidy, William Goldman, when they were about to the writer, not the director, William Goldman, when they were tested it and they had Paul Newman, who is that time as a major star. And they were talking about Robert Redford, which is basically unknown news.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:51
Basically, it was coming up. He was, it was coming up,

Mark Travis 1:06:53
But but he wasn't at the level of Newman, neither one. And a lot of people said, No, you gotta get someone who's at the level of Newman. So William Goldman knew he had to write a scene, which he did, where he can establish Sundance Kid, or Robert Redford at the same level, and Rob respect as Newman and one scene at the beginning of the film. So from then on, they are equal. And that's the scene where Sundance Kid is playing cards, and he has accused someone else of cheating, or someone accused him of cheese. And Newman comes in and says, Come on, we gotta go. We gotta go. He says, No, he has to apologize. First. What he has to apologize why he accused me of cheating. He has to apologize. Come on, we gotta go. We gotta go. And then in that scene, the way it's written, Newman says, Butch Cassidy says, Sundance Come on, and suddenly the room changes. People. Sundance, your Sundance. Because yeah, he's got to apologize. No, I'm not going to apologize. I caught up on Sundays, and someone says, Whom? Are you really that good with? Which means with a gun? Are you really that good? In other words, the now we're hearing about the legends about this. And this is a famous scene, and maybe by this time, Sundance is standing up. And they I don't know, someone says, Can you shoot that would have that bottle over there. Right. And he's just standing it says, just stay there. And he shoots and he misses. Right? And they go, okay, he's not that good. Then Sundance says a key lysis. Can I move? Make a what? Can I move? Oh, yeah. So we start to move it. He's actually starts moving a lot and shooting, and that bottle goes first. And then he says, I'm better when I'm moving. Did you go hold? That whole scene was so the wit. So we go, Who the hell is this guy's amazing. Bring him up to the level of Paul Newman. So when they walk out of that scene, they're at the same level. So it's the same thing is with the godfather. How can we create a scene and create a moment to bring that recognition of a character to a certain level before we launch into the full movie,

Alex Ferrari 1:09:15
And as you were saying that the character that came into my head was Val Kilmer is Doc Holliday and tombstone similar in a similar way, if you don't know who Doc Holliday is everyone's when you hear the rumblings from others. How fast Yes, and he's a he's a lung nerd. And he's got a fairly something called they call them a lung and I'm not sure if that's appropriate or not, but he has that was that they called him in the movie and, and how he drinks all day and even with all that stuff, he still better than anybody else in there. Yeah, that's pretty remarkable. And the other character, which I haven't seen in recent years, anyone do this. John Wick, my God. I mean, The way they set that character up is so beautiful because for the first part of the movie, you don't know what John Wick is capable of doing right at all at all. And then only by the other characters, looks, micro stagings, all these kinds of things. Like when when he opens up the door this is after he already showed a little bit of what he could do. When the cop opens the door. He's like, we heard a couple shots. You're working again, John. It's just so brilliant. But then like the biggest, baddest, you know, criminals. Just hearing his voice is like, hearing the Boogeyman. You know, like it's over, you're done. Now, the boogeyman is coming to get you. Death is coming. It's so fascinating. And it's such a brilliant look at they're holding it off to like, Episode 1/4. The fourth one's coming out. And I think they can sign for four and five. If they're brilliant films. But that's that's a really beautiful case of how the outside characters and environments really set up the the main character.

Mark Travis 1:11:05
Yeah, this another similar situation, which I love to share with you, which has to do with as good as it gets. Oh, Jack Nichols. Yes, Jack Nicholson. And that horrible character, he has to play the horrible human being which almost everybody in the film calls him a horrible human being. But I have two friends of mine. We're working on John Bailey, the cinematographer. And Richard marks the editor. And what I heard is that they had finished the film and they had the first cut or whatever, and they did previews. And everybody hated the film for two main reasons. One, one reason they didn't understand what was wrong with this guy why he was they didn't understand his illness

Alex Ferrari 1:11:46
Didn't show like, they didn't explain it.

Mark Travis 1:11:50
I'll tell you what they did. Okay, they didn't understand his illness. Let's put it that way. Is OCD at all. And the whole idea of any him falling in love or anybody falling in love with him? Forget it, forget it. So the whole it was a disaster. So they went out and shot two more scenes. The one scene in terms of what you're talking about the OCD, the scene of him washing his hands with the Neutrogena soap and throwing the soap things away. And remember, he walks down the hall goes in there and that was not originally they had to show him the OCD, right a big Guinea so you go, okay, he's got a problem. He's got a problem. So they've shot that scene. And the reason it's shot the way it was shot, which John the cinematographer, explained to me says we only had that wall. That's the only wall we know because you're going back to do a reshoot. You don't want to put the whole apartment back together again. The other thing that they shot in terms of him falling in love, which was not in the original was him walking the dog and the dog jumping over the cracks. Okay, the dog jumping over the cracks, which actually became the poster the scene, and then him lifting up the dogs. He still has the little plastic gloves and holding the dog and going oh, yeah, now, but a key thing about that scene was a shot to two women who are out in the park wherever he is seeing him and going, Oh, isn't that sweet? That tells the audience what to think about Jack Nicholson he is capable of being soft and loving and caring. It's told through and told through to other characters that we don't even know who they are.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:39
It will steal the old trope if you want to show a villain have them kick the dog, if you want them to be if you want them to be loved to have them be next to an animal or man next to a dog. It's as simple as that it says everything you need to know about the character. And what I think I loved about that is that he did not like the dog. And it took a minute for him to figure out that he really did love him to the point where he when the dog had to go. He was like, I could come by and see him right. Like, completely dreadful. Gotcha. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Oh my god.

Mark Travis 1:14:13
I love the moment when he's trying to get Greg. He trying to get the dog and Greg Kinnear to reconnect the dog and he's pointed the dog don't talk to him. Go look at him and don't come to me.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:28
That's the big, he likes to bake. You'd like some bacon. It's not me. Right? It's such a tour de force. I mean, James L. Brooks is an absolute master. I mean, but look at that. And for people listening someone like James L Brooks didn't see that. He shot the whole movie. It happens all the time. And then they didn't like it. So like you had to add a couple things to make him likable.

Mark Travis 1:14:55
And I think you know it's it's a great post production story and there are many like that. So as you know, many like, but the first thing is recognizing, okay, it's not working, what's missing? What's missing? What's missing? And how can we get it in? How can how can we what can we what can we do to take care of the element that's missing or the clarify the element? That's confusing? Because that's part that's part of your job. As a director, you're going to have to do that. This is why Woody Allen now I don't know if he still does this. But years ago, because I had several friends of mine who were in Woody Allen films. First of all, he doesn't rehearse. And he doesn't think he's a good director of actors at all. He says, I don't I don't know how to work with actors, but I do know how to cast but that he his budget, I think 25% of his budget was saved. For reshoots. He would shoot the whole movie, go into post production, put it together. And then he's got this chunk of money for reshoots. Now, that was his process. That's an expensive process. But that's what worked at once he could see the movie and see how was working, which is actually a luxury to go back. So I'm gonna have to reshoot some stuff to make it work. That's a way to do it.

Alex Ferrari 1:16:12
And I mean, he the reason why people always asked you know about Woody and you know, his, I mean, he did a movie a year for 40 years. 30 years. I'm like, No, it's it's it's on her record, but he keeps his budget so low, that he has complete freedom, and then cast the biggest movie stars in the world who come to work for him for scale. It's good work if you could get it, sir.

Mark Travis 1:16:38
Should we all be so lucky?

Alex Ferrari 1:16:42
He's Kubrick, bow Kubrick Kelly did movie every five, seven years, he didn't want every single. Now, Mark, I'm gonna ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests. What advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today?

Mark Travis 1:16:59
Well, there were two things. One is because your question is trying to break into the business. That's a fact I would say talk to Alex, my friend.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:10
Because a few podcasts that cover that topic.

Mark Travis 1:17:13
As a few I'm sure there are. I mean, the whole thing of breaking into the business, getting into this world of filmmaking, getting into the system, the industry, the machine, whether it's at a studio level, or low budget, no budget level. It all has its challenges financially, artistically and all that it's huge. And I would say you know, keep your expectations low. Make a film that you know, you can make. In other words, don't, don't, don't push yourself. Make that film make that short film about two people in a restaurant or whatever it is. And it's a short make something that you know, you can control that can show what you're capable of doing what you are capable, that you are capable of working with these actors. You're capable of getting these performances if you wrote it that you are you are you you know how to write a screenplay. When I say keep your expectations low, which means keep your budget low, so that you're not pushing yourself to try to achieve something that is not within your budget. It's not within your timeframe. It's not within your skill set. It's in your imagination. I got that keep it simple. Keep it some some of the best films I've seen. Are I've seen some great I'm sure you I know you have a five or eight minutes long. And there are a downing power fifth. There's a short film I don't know if you've seen it. Alex called the nail nursing a couple sitting in the living room in the whole scene. They don't move they just sit he she's on the couch. She's on the chair near the couch. And she's we hear her talking about you know, she's she's suffering from these pains, like headache payments and all of that. And we see her from the back we see him he's not in on and suddenly she turns her head and we see a nail protruding out of her forehead. Okay, a nail. No blood just now. And he goes I think it must have something to do with the neck. No, no, it's not the nail. It's not the myth that's and I go and there's a hole in it but it gets into what this story is really dealing with is men and women and how they deal with problems that she keeps denying what he thinks he sees and he keeps trying to help it's really about male female relationships. But it's all about the nail

Alex Ferrari 1:19:41
It's not the nail but the nails in your head. It's not the nail it's not it's not the nail

Mark Travis 1:19:45
Forget the nail you keep bringing up the nail I'd stop and I got an it's a I'm sure you can find it on YouTube. It's a brilliant now, whoever made this. It's a brilliant short movie. There's another one which I can't remember name of which I love, which is outdoors and a guy seems to fall out of the sky, he just falls and then all this sound equipment falls down near him, which he picks up and he starts off towards a park. And we go over to the park and we see in the park that people are there and an accident happens and someone gets badly hurt really badly hurt. And this guy sees it he just blows he goes over sets up all his sound equipment sets up with a with a knob with with a on a turntable,

Alex Ferrari 1:20:39
The DJ on the DJ, or that kind of sound equipment do

Mark Travis 1:20:43
DJ equipment is it sets that all up? Yeah, starts playing, you know, starts playing it. And then he starts playing it backwards. And as he plays it backwards. The scene we saw reverses itself and he runs it backwards to before the accident. And then he makes a couple of adjustments and then he lets it run forward again and the scene changes. And then there's another accident he goes up and runs it backwards. Now what he does, and finally he gets it so it everything is fine. Nobody's got hurt. He's He's changed the course of events, packs up all his stuff. Then he sees a little girl down there holding her doll which got mashed during the last thing. And he goes, Oh God, it puts the stuff back together again, and cleans it up. So her doll was not damaged. There's no dialogue in the whole thing. It's brilliant. Brilliant. It's brilliant. No, there's someone's showing here's what I can do.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:41
It's brilliant. So brilliant. Brilliant.

Mark Travis 1:21:42
So I you know my videos, you know follow your passion. Now you're just your passion is filmmaking. Follow your passion of what you want to talk about what you want to explore. Like the nail I want to explore the male female relationship in a unique way. Do it. Keep it simple. Keep it simple.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:59
Now, what are three of your favorite films of all time?

Mark Travis 1:22:02
What's that three favorite film

Alex Ferrari 1:22:03
Favorite films of all time right now.

Mark Travis 1:22:06
A lot a lot of you know, I'm probably like you a lot of it depends on what I've seen recently. You know? I mean, the father, which I mentioned to you is a stunning film. And he got nominated for one no, you want one? Yeah, he won. He won. He went for the performance. But aside from that, it's a man suffering dementia but the film is made in such a way that I defy you Alex or anybody else to be able to figure out what is actually going on during the film. And but it's made so that as Besides watching a man suffering with his world changing and shifting and being and being illogical and and confusing the film this is very dangerous as also to the audience illogical and at times confusing, so that we the audience of feeling with our relationship with the film is his relationship with the world brilliantly done talking about the power and it's everything and it is so simple, the editing the you know, the performances the staging is all very sort of solid and simple. But it's to the point that the set keeps changing because it kept the set keeps changing what you won't notice probably won't even notice the first time but it's changed because to Anthony Hopkins character it's the world is shifting. So it's a brilliant film using cinematic storytelling in a whole different way. The Godfather, of course,

Alex Ferrari 1:23:43
That is one or two you could put one or two in there together that's fine. Because everyone always goes one or two like put one or two to get one movie so you'd have another one or both excellent.

Mark Travis 1:23:55
Yeah, they both exit this Shawshank Redemption that Shakespeare in Love that he talks to you we could go through genres and things get out get out which is a stunning it's just you know

Alex Ferrari 1:24:06
So many yeah,

Mark Travis 1:24:07
There's so many go on and on and on and on and on.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:09
Well my mind number one is Shawshank and everybody here listening on the show knows that I talk about Shawshank ad nauseam on this on this show over the years and I've talked to story experts I'm like let's break down Shawshank why is this there and what's the the deeper levels of and why is this? Why is it popular? Why was it the worst title ever for a movie? So that's right now where can people find out more about you and the work you're doing?

Mark Travis 1:24:39
Okay, the easiest way to get in touch with me which is very simple. My name is Mark W Travis but w middle initial. Don't forget that [email protected]. That's it. You write to me I'm talking to you all you're listening. You can write to me to Alex but you have already done that. That's that's how you can get in touch. with me, and I invite your listeners to get any of them to get in touch with me Do me a couple of favors. First, you get in touch with me write me an email, mentioned this podcast mentioned, so that I know and I can let Alex know, whatever, it's nice to know where you came from, or how you got here. If you get in touch with me, I have some gifts for you, I have a couple of videos that I will be happy to share with you. One is called Three mistakes directors make when working with actors. And the other one is called The Power of Staging. So the power of stages is a longer video of talking about and showing you exactly what we're talking about today. The other one is working with actors three mistakes, I can share that with you. And for release, this is a dangerous thing, but I'm going to do it for really serious if, if you're really serious about a directing career really serious. And Alex, you know what I mean, about serious versus whatever, I want to be famous. I want to be famous, really, if you're really serious, and you can convince me, then I'm going to offer your free half hour consultation with me where I share with you all the things I do, how I can help you how I can support you. And wherever you are in your career, wherever you want to go. Whether you're just beginning or whether you're working professionally and you're running into challenges with working with actors or working with scripts or something. Just write to me simple. write me an email,

Alex Ferrari 1:26:33
And you do have a website, don't you sir?

Mark Travis 1:26:34
I do have a website. My company is called Travis International Film Institute. The acronym is TIFITravis International Film Institute. The website is so easy to tifi.us.not com. .us. You go there, then the website. And you can see on there there's a film on there that you can watch, which I'm going to send you tonight. I don't know if I sent you the latest and insanity called rehearsal scene 22 Where I documentary you shall see how I work with actors using the interrogation process, which is what we talked about last time as it's all been documented. But that's on the website. You can see that

Alex Ferrari 1:27:23
Mark, it has been a pleasure talking to you sir, let's let's not wait five years to the next time, sir. Your wealth, your wealth of information and hopefully this conversation has helped a few people with staging and some other other things in their career. So I appreciate you, sir. Thank you again.

Mark Travis 1:27:41
Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. It's good to see you.

IFH 613: Directing Bruce Willis’ Last Film with Matt Eskandari

Matt Eskandari immigrated to the United States as a child with his family, following the Iranian revolution. He is an alumnus of the University of Southern California, and would direct several award-winning shorts; including “The Taking” (Screamfest Award for Best Student Short). The film propelled him to nationwide exposure when he was chosen by Steven Spielberg and Mark Burnett; from a pool of 12,000 candidates, to participate in the Fox filmmaker competition ‘On the Lot.’

Matt would go on to make his feature directorial debut with the psychological thriller “Victim.” The controversial work was distributed by Ifc Films for theatrical release and hailed by Ain’t it Cool News as, “a thinking man’s Saw” and “both original and disturbing.” Eskandari’s next feature, “The Gauntlet,” starring international stars Bai Ling and Dustin Nguyen was produced and shot entirely in China. It was one of the first China/US co-productions recognized by the Beijing Film Bureau and after a successful worldwide festival run was distributed as “Game of Assassins” by Lionsgate Studios

Matt’s third feature, the self-contained swimming pool thriller “12 Feet Deep,” starring Tobin Bell and Alexandra Park was praised by critics as, “a tensely directed hidden gem that will leave you struggling to breathe,” and has gone on to become the single top selling title for MarVista – having amassed a record 40 million trailer views in its first months release.

Inspired by true events, sisters Bree and Jonna get trapped beneath the fiberglass cover of an Olympic sized public pool after it closes for the holiday weekend. They find themselves at the mercy of the night janitor, Clara, who sees the trapped sisters as an opportunity to solve a few problems of her own.

Coming from a unique cultural perspective and honing his directorial craft in genre films, Eskandari is ready to use his distinct voice to embark into a further exploration of human nature and delve into the relevant fears and themes of our modern day world.

His latest film is “Wire Room” and has been said that this will be Bruce Willis’ last film before his retirement.

Action legend Bruce Willis comes out with guns blazing as Shane Mueller, a Homeland Security agent who runs the Wire Room, a high-tech command center surveilling the most dangerous criminals. New recruit Justin Rosa (Kevin Dillon, “Entourage”) must monitor arms-smuggling cartel member Eddie Flynn — and keep him alive at all costs. When a SWAT team descends on Flynn’s home, Rosa breaks protocol and contacts the gangster directly to save his life. As gunmen break into the Wire Room and chaos erupts, Mueller and Rosa make a final, desperate stand against the corrupt agents and officials who seek to destroy evidence and kill them both.

Enjoy my conversation with Matt Eskandari.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Matt Eskandari 0:00
One thing that I would tell him is, success is not a straight path. There's going to be ups and downs. It's going to be a journey. Enjoy the journey. Enjoy every step that you're on. Enjoy every film that you're making that show every little actor and collaboration and moment that you're working on.

Alex Ferrari 0:19
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book, Rise of the Filmtrepreneur. How to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com. I'd like to welcome the show Matt Eskandari. How you doing, Matt?

Matt Eskandari 0:33
It's a pleasure, man. Thanks for having me on. I'm a big fan of yours. And indeed, Fonasa. So look forward chatting.

Alex Ferrari 0:38
I appreciate that, man. Thank you so much, brother. It's really interesting. When I was doing my research on you, you and I have a have a connection, sir. Oh, really? We do an early old

Matt Eskandari 0:49
Date a girl ex girlfriend or something?

Alex Ferrari 0:52
Nothing. Nothing that scandalous, sir. But you and I had a we're involved with a little show called on the lot.

Matt Eskandari 1:00
Oh, you're on that.

Alex Ferrari 1:02
I wasn't on it. But I was almost on it. I went to the last edge. And apparently I wasn't scandalous enough to get on the show.

Matt Eskandari 1:15
You didn't sleep your way in like I didn't.

Alex Ferrari 1:16
I mean, I just need my way in. But I saw that up. I'm like, Oh, he was in the first two episodes. Oh, man. That's, that's crazy. That's awesome. So I want to talk to you about your experience on on the lot and a little bit because I've never spoken to anybody else. A really valid that's been on it. I've talked to I was almost on Project Greenlight. So it's actually in the first episode of season two of Project Greenlight, but I didn't make it on the full show. And same thing happened with on the on the on the lot. I flew out they did the interview. It was I mean, I was I was this close, that's fine. So and you're one of the few people who I know who are working.

Matt Eskandari 1:54
Right, exactly what happened together one of the thing I didn't get to deal with Spielberg or something like,

Alex Ferrari 2:01
Dude, that's the thing that all those shows most of the directors, not all, but most of the directors became upset, just they fell into obscurity. And I feel like there was a backlash against those directors in the business. And and before we just have to ask that question. What was your vibe after you were on that show? Since you didn't go too far. And you went to a couple, a couple

Matt Eskandari 2:21
other shows on a few episodes, and it's gonna make it too far. But, you know, I had to stay there the whole time while they were doing it, but because they didn't want us to reveal what was happening. But I was really young. This was like, right out of film school. So I was 24 I was really young. And, you know, didn't supergreen I'd never directed a feature before I just had short phones on under my, under my belt. And it was an interesting experience. It was definitely, you know, it being there. I realized it was kind of disheartening the first few weeks because you realize they weren't actually looking for the best filmmaker, they were looking for the most drama or whatever. And I was like, like, why are you guys wasting everybody's time here to make it like, I get you want to make an entertaining show. But you know, this should all just like, this should be like American Idol. You're trying to find the best singer, the best director, the best filmmaker, like why are we why are we here? If it's just if it's just to create, like, interesting drama or backstories of characters, and somebody was just kind of disheartening. But, you know, I did meet some people on that, that didn't make it to win either. And I stayed in touch with some of them, like I had them as Facebook friends for a while. And it was, for me, the the positive that I was able to take away from it was it was sort of a stamp of approval for myself from my own sort of ego at the time to be like, Okay, I'm, I'm not completely incompetent, if I've been able to make it on this thing. And, you know, I might know, a thing or two about making films if I made it this far. So maybe I should keep going and not give up on the dream. You know what I mean? So I think that was a huge positive for me to come out of it knowing that okay, this was like a nice kick in the butt. Let me keep going and see how far I can get.

Alex Ferrari 4:04
That's awesome. Because I mean, it was I thought I was I was so devastated when I didn't make it like I flew myself out to Atlanta to take a pic the interview. It was all Dude, it was. And then afterwards after I watched the show, I'm like,

Matt Eskandari 4:19
oh, dodged the bullet. Yeah, that's that's fine. Filmmakers on there, too, like Michael Bay, and

Alex Ferrari 4:29
Oh, no. Yeah. I mean, it was serious. They had some serious but there's the guy who made survivor so you could I mean, what are you going to expect? And by the way, the only reason I submitted it was because Spielberg was on it. He was the one that could be the only reason I haven't submitted to it. But funny side note, Hi, Chris. More on the show. Years later, like I had him earlier this year. first words out of my mouth. Roger Greenlight, man, why don't I get into second season, bro? Like so the first question I ask. And he's like, Man, I don't know what happened. But

Matt Eskandari 5:03
Back in the day, it was the first season or something. I mean, I didn't get that.

Alex Ferrari 5:08
It brought me perhaps a green light though that was that was entertaining as hell. And you could after the first season, you was like, come on. Why? Why did they get this guy million dollars? I mean, the shooting sound underneath a train, like?

Matt Eskandari 5:23
Like, at least that was a real filmmaking show.

Alex Ferrari 5:26
I guess it was something. Yeah. Is that is that American Idol? At least it was a real show. Right? But anyway, but I just wanted to touch on that, because it's brothers in arms. Reality Show brother in arms. So so after that experience, man, how did you kind of get into the business? How did you start? Start building your career?

Matt Eskandari 5:47
You know, looking back, it was definitely it was a process, right? I mean, after after not making very far on that show. I just continued on the path that I was doing, which was writing scripts, shooting shorts, trying to build connections, getting my name out there as much as possible. And this was it was this is a different time, obviously. So there was a, you know, the industry was different that filmed it independent filmmaking scene was a little bit different back then. But the 2000 10s are around then. But basically, I was able to get financing for a feature film. It was like a horror film called victim. And we shot it in 20 days was independent was shot on 35 millimeter, which is crazy to think of now, a double be shot on 35 millimeter, we only raised like, 700 grand, but we certainly raised 700 grand, this was back when there was a DVD market. So you know, you could guarantee that they would make their money back if it was a genre movie, and this and that. So so, you know, I made that movie. It opened a couple doors. But you know, it was able to do get another independent film off the ground, this film called The Gauntlet. And we did that in China shows up to shoot a movie in China. And then it was what was that? Like, by the way? That was an interesting experience. I was still young in my career. I was like, 2627, and being in a foreign country. And the movie, we raised a lot more for that one. So there was we were building these massive sets. And, you know, I had a translator on set all the time to communicate everything to the crew and everything. And so it was it was a challenging process. But the toughest aspect was when we were young filmmakers, right? And we made the mistake of we were like, Oh, we got enough money to shoot this movie. We'll worry about posts, like the money for post afterward. Like, let's just shoot this movie. So we shot the movie, we got in the cab, and we came back and we couldn't we couldn't raise financing for posts. We were like, stuck. We're like, how the hell are we gonna finish this movie now? So it literally took us and then we couldn't get the footage out of the country. So it took us a couple years to get the footage out of the country. It was insane. I mean, my filmmaking career was stalled, basically, because I couldn't see the last movie that I was on. It was it was a step back for me. It took me back a bit. And you know, it really disheartened me. And I was like, oh, man, I like independent filmmaking.

Alex Ferrari 8:00
So I got to ask him, How the hell did you keep going? Because that's, that's depressing. Like, it's depressing. Just to get to make a movie like, you like us. It's hard to even get the money to make a movie, and how to keep going. You've made a movie, it's in the can. And you can't literally even see the footage because it's in another country. Yeah, for 20 years. How did you keep going?

Matt Eskandari 8:21
It gets worse, because so we get the footage out of the country, right? What percent of it is damaged? This was this was the first time people started shooting on digital. And we use something called the Viper film camera. I

Alex Ferrari 8:34
remember the Viper. Yeah. Michael man shot collateral with it. But you didn't have Michael Mann budget.

Matt Eskandari 8:40
Exactly. So I guess we were cutting corners using a cheap hard drive. I don't know what happened. 20% of the footage was gone, right? And I was like, we can't finish the movie. Now. This is crazy. So then I had to go back to the producers. And we had to find backup footage that we oppressed to HD to be able to cut the movie to get like proxy, like proxy proxy stuff. Yeah, we had to appraise proxy footage to cut into the movie. And then what was crazy is it had been now like three years since we shot the movie, right? So we couldn't do pick up shoots because the actors looked all different. And and it was it was it was a it was a pain in the butt. So then, so then I'm just finishing the movie. I'm just like, I just want this to be over with done with this movie like and I just wanted to get it out there and I'm ready for my next movie. Next thing and I had this delusional thought in my mind that oh, this is going to open up so many doors and and this was such a cool movie that once we get it out there and by the time the movie was released and got out there and this and that. He got into some film festivals, but it didn't get into the into Sundance and getting the like really big film festivals, right. So I was like, oh, man, this is basically didn't open up any doors that hadn't been opened and I was like super disheartened by that. I was like, What the hell man? So I'm back to square one again. Sort of, I'm having to rebuild my career. scratch. So then now I'm back to writing I'm writing scripts and trying to scripts made. I didn't even have a manager at the time, I had no manager no reps at all. That was just going to film festivals and going to little things and like chatting with people chatting with producers and saying, like, Hey, I just shot this movie in China, you want check it out. And everyone was like, Oh, that's cool. Like, what are you doing? Next? We got next. And every time I would pitch them stuff. It was always like fake budget, like, oh, I want to just like matrix action, sci fi, this and that. And everyone's like, whoa, okay, well, what have you done? And I'm like, I've done like two movies. And so it was, so it was, it was tough, right? And then finally, I was like, you know, this has been a few years now and directed a movie, if maybe four years or five years almost had been five years. And I was like, oh, man, I need to just shoot something I need to get back on set. I'm just, I'm just, I don't even know if I like directing anymore. Like, just get back on sentence and find joy. So then I started thinking of like, what's a movie that I can just shoot? contained? It's just one location. And I just seen that when we buried that. Yeah. So I was like, Okay, if you can shoot a movie in a coffin, and make it interesting, I'm sure I couldn't find a location that'll work for 90 minutes, I can make interesting. So I started like, doing the research coming up with stuff. And then I found this story about these drunk people to get stuck in a swimming pool when the cover closes in on them. And they're stuck all night in the pool. Right? So I was like, wow, that's, that's a cool concepts. So that before, so I was like, let me do a contain thriller. And you know, I just worst case scenario, I'll shoot this in my backyard pool with like, some actor friends, and we'll shoot it for like, 20 grand or something, right? That was my backup plan. And we'll get into like slam dance or something, right? It'd be like a really character driven piece or whatever. And just just in my kind of going around meeting with people, I found this producer who was like, oh, yeah, I'm a sort of couple places. Let me read the script. If I liked it, I'll see if I get finance. So as I was getting ready to just shoot it myself, and my back, literally, like, in my back, there was an actor's, I get a call from the producer. And he's like, Oh, we got the financing for the phone. You know, can you shoot it for like, 700, grand, 800, grand or whatever. And I was like, hell yeah, that sounds good to me, I'll make it work. So basically, I was able to get back on set, kind of get my directing gear back in and, you know, just get back in the process, the filmmaking process. And that movie, it was tough to shoot, obviously, on the water. We had, like 1718 days, but it turned out really well, right. I mean, that one finally opened up some doors again, and was able to jumpstart my career, which had basically been flagging.

Alex Ferrari 12:41
So let me ask you, what did you do in those five years, man? Like, that's duck the dead zone of like, how did you keep going? How did you keep alive? How did you feed yourself?

Matt Eskandari 12:52
For being you know, I would take up stripping this database,

Alex Ferrari 12:55
you to YouTube, man, you know, I was young, I needed the money. Come on.

Matt Eskandari 13:01
You know, I mean, it was tough man. It was it was it was a tough period there were, you know, a couple things would get auctioned, and then didn't go anywhere. Yeah. Like I was living. My parents went back with my parents again, you know, it was like, this is this is pretty shameful, or whatever, you know. So my parents and training trying to get by and, you know, and then I was telling myself, okay, this is, you know, this year will be the year you know, I'll finally get some billing this year, I'll get a paycheck and I'll be able to move out or whatever. But, you know, it was it was it was disheartening. It's definitely, you know, disheartening, but I'm just one of those people that have always been very persistent, very dogged headed, and I just won't give up. You know what I mean, people told me no, and I'm just like, that's cool. That's your problem. You just don't You don't understand, like, how badass This is, to me. So I just take it from that perspective. And I think it comes to my immigrant background. Because, you know, you know, I don't know if you know, like, immigrant, we have this immigrant mentality where we come into this, and we're like, I'm here for the opportunity, man, just get out of my way. Like, you know, I'm gonna get shit done, because I appreciate the opportunities that are in front of me, and I'll just keep going, you know?

Alex Ferrari 14:08
I listen, man, I agree with you. 100%. I come from an immigrant family as well. And I just saw I learned I mean, you know, to store my grandpa shows up at 55 with doesn't know the language starts completely from scratch after losing his entire fortune and businesses and everything guilt built in Cuba. And because Castro came over and just took everything he had to rebuild from scratch, and like that kind of you see that? You see and you see that? So that's kind of why I definitely credit him. And my mom and my family, just they always all hustle to hustle, hustle. I mean, I mean, zooming that's branded everywhere. I lived the brand. I lived, it's always hustling. So yeah, there is that that persistence that you need to have. And that's why I always love asking those questions because those dark that dark time is the time that makes or breaks you Oops, can you can you survive this? It's easy when you're on set that's easy to survive. Yeah, there's problems on set and all that stuff. But the five years where after year one, you're like next, this is the year, year two, nine, this is a year, year three. This is this is where the this is what the mentality is, like, Am I insane? Right. And you at least have done some stuff. There's people who you're 10 this is the year and they've never done anything. Yeah. And they still going and then unable to do something later. But it's,

Matt Eskandari 15:32
it's it's really what it comes down to. And it's interesting, because yeah, like early on in my career, like I was on the on the law, I had an agent, right out of film school. So I had like this early taste of success. And then I did an indie movie. I was like, 24. And I was like, Hey, I just did an indie movie. I just directed a movie on 35. This is cool. And then to have to spend the next five years not doing anything was tough, right? Because I'd already had a taste of what like I literally gone to steel meetings to direct like big budget movies on like my agent was getting and I was like 23 at a time. And I still remember, like some big name producers, Emirates, like huge producers, but like, how old are you kid and I'm like, 22 and they're like, you direct anything like yes, in shorts. And to go from that to like, not doing move for five years. I was like, it was tough, but it gave me that, like hardheadedness, that persistence that you're like, Okay, if it was in the room once I can get in the room again, man, just just keep busting your ass and getting the

Alex Ferrari 16:28
room again. And I'm, and I'm sure when you were 2223 taking all those meetings, your ego was in check. Obviously, we're very humble about the entire experience.

Matt Eskandari 16:35
I was I was like, Man, I'm the next like Spielberg.

Alex Ferrari 16:41
Everyone says that, like, I'm the next Tarantino baby. I'm

Matt Eskandari 16:45
coming out. Like, oh, man, like I still remember on the lot. They were trying to pigeonhole me as like, the next day, like somebody was like, Oh, you remind me of like the next Tarantino like really?

Alex Ferrari 16:56
If you say so. It must be true. Just start dressing

Matt Eskandari 16:59
like Tarantino and

Alex Ferrari 17:02
start cursing more and, and I don't know, listening to like surf music? I don't know. Yeah, exactly. It's fascinating. Yeah, it's similar to me, I had a little bit of success at the beginning. And excuse me, and then you're like, in a desert. You're basically on a walkabout, you're in the Australian outback for five years, figuring yourself out, doing some sweat, lodging stuff, you know, like, kind of trying to trying to figure things out until finally you just get something going. But it's so important for filmmakers, especially young filmmakers coming up, or new filmmakers coming up to hear these kinds of stories. So they understand this is not going to happen overnight, even with

Matt Eskandari 17:43
people that are super lucky. And you come right in film school, they get a deal with the studio. Next thing, you know, they're directing a fucking Marvel movie or whatever, you know, there's that. But then again, there are people that win the lottery too. And those people are lucky, you know, sometimes you just, it's a one in a million thing. And you can't use that person's career as, okay, that's what I'm gonna follow, right? Because nine times out of 10 You're not going to jump out of film school on how to deal with Paramount and direct the movie, you know, with Colin Farrell, or something you don't I mean,

Alex Ferrari 18:14
it's just so So you mean to tell me that you're not going to make a movie called El Mariachi $7,000. And then 23 Start working in the studio system and then have Final Cut a film or two later, and then just live the rest of your career, doing whatever you want making as many movies as you want, on any budget you want, whenever you want.

Matt Eskandari 18:32
I mean, hey, man, that'd be cool. Yeah, hey, some people get it, they win the lottery. And it's

Alex Ferrari 18:37
and God bless Robert for being able to do that, by the way, but he's an anomaly but so was Spielberg so it was you know, so it was Lucas like all of them had these these they were moments in time that and trust me, I don't know about you, but I studied every directors career path. And when I was coming up in the 90s, I was in a video store when Robert showed up. And when like when Robert like his his El Mariachi legend began then I mean, Rick was first read click letter, then him and Spike Lee, Brothers McMullen, clerks, it just list goes on and on. And during the 90s was every five minutes there was a new lottery ticket that we were all like, yeah. You know, like, Ed Burns was a PA on Entertainment Tonight handed a VHS of a jacked up version of brothers MC voluntad Robert Redford in an elevator. And four months later, Robert, that Sundance office calls and was like, Hey, Robert saw your movie. Is it done? We'd like to, we'd like to screen it. Like, come on. Like, how can you? How can you go down that road?

Matt Eskandari 19:46
Yeah, it's hard to replicate that you know what I mean? Like, look at that story and be like, let me try to do that. You know, it's challenging.

Alex Ferrari 19:53
So, so you've worked with a lot of legendary and and really established actors. I always love Asking this question, how do you work with? How do you approach directing some of these very established actors who have been acting forever? And they're just they know what they're doing? You know, how do you like, so? Can yet yeah, I can I you know, I love what you did there, but can you just how do you approach that situation?

Matt Eskandari 20:21
Like the first time I got to oh, I've worked with some amazing actors 100% Bruce was obviously Bruce Willis was one where Sure, no, it's like one of those things. Like, if you look at his filmography, you're like, Okay, he's worked with Tarantino and Michael Bay, and all these like a list, like directors who I look up to, and I'm like, how, like, for some I was with them, or like, how am I gonna give them direction? Like, I'm not fucking Terry, like, what the hell? So you have, you can't psych yourself out thinking of that, right? So then I started doing the research, I looked into, like, interviews with Bruce, that he did, like, behind the scenes stuff from the 90s, the 2000s, or whatever. And I noticed because I heard some other stories like, Oh, he's tough to work with this, and that, you know, Kevin Smith, blah, blah, blah. I was like, man, like, I want to read about him, I want to know who he is. So I listened to some of the interviews, and I noticed that Bruce was one of those actors that he would, he would talk about how, like M knight would be very specific about what he wanted, what he was wearing this character and the shoes and this and that, and the color and the lighting, and this and that. And so it really isn't okay, so Bruce is one of those guys, he wants the director to, to basically come in with a strong vision, and to talk him through it. And he'll do his job, right. And he just wants to trust that you have something you're trying to tell right. And as long as you go in there with a strong vision, and like confidence, he'll trust you. Right. So that was one of those first things I noticed. So I went in there, trying not to be intimidated. I just want him to the first time I met him, I was like, hey, Bruce, how's it going? And he's like, he was really chilled. He's like, Hey, what's going on? Brother? How's it going? We were like, John, it was trailer. And I started talking about his character whose character is and this and that. And he's like, and then I was like, and I tried to get his thoughts on on the character. And he came back to do some interesting stuff. And I was like, Okay, this is cool. This boy like this. So we were vibing going back and forth. And, and then he's like, I want to try something on this scene. And I was like, and it's Bruce Willis. Once price on the lavatory, something. Yeah. So like, Yeah, let's have fun with it. So he shows up on his first tape. And he does something really crazy. Like he was like, like, it was not in the script at all, like certain

Alex Ferrari 22:25
Nic Cage, Nic Cage style, the cake shop.

Matt Eskandari 22:28
Excuse me, sir, screaming at the other actor, and the other actor wasn't expecting it. And I was like, holy shit. Like, he was like, react ram and the other actor, like, you're a disappointment with, like, what he was like. And I was like, watching this on the monitor. I was like, fucking love it, man. This is like crazy, but I love it. And the other actor was like, ah, shocked and stuff. And so I went to Bruce, he's like, so what do you think? And I was like, That was that was interesting, Bruce, you know, I like a lot, you know, let's try one, like, the more subdued while we like, I tried to talk, he's like, he's cool. You want to try something, right. And you just want to have fun and try something. And then from there, I was able to, like, I saw what he brought to the table. And you know, how he likes to play and have fun. And he'll sometimes add live food additives and stuff. So it's, it's interesting, I feel like with every actor, they're so different. One of your jobs as a director is to, to understand how they work, right. And to change your directing style based on the chapter that's really your job is you're a leader on set. And you're working with these different collaborators who work differently, right? Some actor, you know, they, they're very insecure, and they want you to talk them through the scenes and, you know, other actors, they don't want to over rehearse, they just want to jump in there and try it and see how it feels. And every actor has their own style. But one of the things as a director and you only get this through experience, right? You work with them, you talk with them, you go through the scenes, and you develop your own certain style. And for me, you know, some directors, they love, like, you know, that high energy or whatever for me on set, I'm very silicate, I'm attracted to calm, cool. Competence said, I don't yell. You know, even if somebody breaks something, I don't freak out. You know, the crew member like, you just, I just don't want the set to feel like it's stressful, right? Even though stressful stuff is happening. We all know several stuff is happening. But I try to keep it very stoic mentality so that the actors feel like they have that room to play and have fun. And trust that I'm controlling things right. Otherwise, if they see me run around and stressed out, they're gonna be like, Oh, shit, I don't know what's going on, like what's going on? So that's, that's one of the things that I feel like super key

Alex Ferrari 24:36
is I had a friend of mine who was working with John Malkovich once and first day he walked up to John and did similar things like hey, how you doing? Let's talk about the characters like and then he literally asked him like, John, how do you like to be directed? And John goes, You know what, thank you for asking, you know, and this is kind of my process and this I want to do it and they got like they got along like peas and carrots after To that, because imagine if you're if you're trying to direct somebody with a strong vision of the character, and they're like, No, I'm more method leave me alone and let's it's rough. So working with someone like a John Malkovich. That's not a not a dumb way to approach the situation.

Matt Eskandari 25:19
No, that's, that's actually brilliant, you know, you just walk up to and be like, how do you like doing? How do you like working? You know, it's, it's our first time working together. I want to build like a good collaboration. What's your style? Like? How do you like, and I could definitely see an actor responding positively, positively to that. So that's a cool, it's cool to that.

Alex Ferrari 25:37
Now is there if you had the opportunity man to go back in time, and talk to little Maddie? When he was just coming out, and just started to get into this business? What would be the one thing you would tell him and go, Man, this is gonna be a five year rundown is gonna suck, but just keep going. I know that that's the first thing you're gonna say. Well, what would you what would be something that you wish you would have been told at the beginning of your journey?

Matt Eskandari 26:06
That's a great question. I feel like the one thing I would tell him is, success is not a straight path. There's going to be ups and downs. It's going to be a journey. Enjoy the journey, enjoy every step that you're on, enjoy every film that you're making that show every little actor and collaboration and moment that you're working on set, because it's just a, you can't really look into the future and figure out exactly where you'll be right. So just enjoy those moments. While they're there. I mean, looking back on some of the little short films that I made, the DP that I worked with the front thing to even the moments that we created, and the actors and it's just like, those are the things that you'll remember later on, right? I mean, trying to obsess over being super successful is cool, but at the same time, it's gotta gotta enjoy the moments when you're there.

Alex Ferrari 26:57
Enjoy the journey. And don't worry about the destination so much, basically. Now, a lot of times when we're starting out, especially when you're working on some of these bigger sets, and it's like you were you actually had the opportunity to direct a couple movies when you were younger, I got to believe that a certain point, you ran into some, some resistance on set, let's say, from a crew member from an actor, how do you what any advice for filmmakers who have to deal with a difficult actor or a difficult crew member a DP was like, Nah, I'm not going to shoot the way you do it? Because I'm 30 years older than you and I work with Coppola. What are you going to tell me? Like that kind of attitude, which I've had that conversation on set, which is like, Okay, well, let's see, let's see what happens. So how would you how would you approach that situation?

Matt Eskandari 27:44
You know, I've had something similar. I remember my first film, or extraction. So this isn't exactly

Alex Ferrari 27:50
I know that the first film, early film, sir, early films, short, short, it was a short,

Matt Eskandari 27:56
it was very, there was a scenario where a producer came up to me and he's like, Why are you shooting the scene? Like this zoom lens? Like, why he was questioning? Why are we shooting a scene in a certain way? And, and I blew up on him right now. It was like, I'm the director. I used to like, it was one of those like, very bizarre, like ego moments, you know,

Alex Ferrari 28:16
but then the demonic will come out with a bullhorn did you

Matt Eskandari 28:20
came out, it was thrown on the ground. And, you know, that's not you know, and I burned that bridge hard, right? I was like, eff off and this and that. And I was like, young kid that right? But, but my ego was bruised. So I took it personally. And years later, looking back, like that, pretty. That person is very producer's very successful now and doing really well. And, you know, and it was, it wasn't even a big deal. You know, it was one of those things today, I probably would have been like, oh, yeah, for sure. Man. Like, I would have just taken him to the side and, and had a conversation together and been like, oh, what's the reasoning behind Okay, I'll think of that. Okay, I like that idea. Cool. I would have taken it from that perspective and then just shut it down in that way. Rather than turning into a scene and then from there you know, ruining a bridge and like burning a bridge right? So it's, it's just like those things that you do as a as an up and coming filmmaker, sometimes. You kind of learn from it. That was a was a dumb thing to do. But what do you do? Young?

Alex Ferrari 29:22
A young ego. You know, it's so funny. As a young filmmaker, you need ego. You need healthy. You need a healthy ego and a dose of insanity to even attempt to walk the path. Yeah, for sure. Because it's insane. This isn't your we're carnies man. We're, we're running away with the circus. That's what we are. I mean, this is an insane business to be in. And you have to be insane to believe. I was having this conversation with director the other day, and I go, you've got to be insane and the amount of ego and hubris you must have to talk to someone to go I need $3 million dollars from you to help me facilitate my dream, right? And my vision, and I truly don't give a crap if it makes money or not because it's my art. That conversation has happened multiple times, right?

Matt Eskandari 30:15
It's sometimes it's, you know, you're on set and you're like, hey, this is a $7 million movie, whatever. And it's like, all these decisions are landing on me now. And, I mean, one dumb mistake, and everybody's trusting me, you know, and, and everybody's trusting me to do the right thing. But sometimes I question myself and like, do I, how do I shoot this scene? Like, you know, you have those moments of doubt. And being able to not like, you're gonna be able to have that ego and craziness, like you said, to trust yourself? And say, like, you know what, yeah, let's, we're gonna do this thing this way. In the back of your mind. You're like, Dude, this is like a seminar move. I have to stop like, I'm in trouble, man, but you got to trust yourself. Right?

Alex Ferrari 30:52
Okay, so can you imagine that film students who got the shot that do the Marvel movie? Yeah. How? Can you imagine the pressure?

Matt Eskandari 31:03
Oh, yeah. I mean, in those instances, those people are so kind of catered and taken care of. But,

Alex Ferrari 31:10
I mean, it's a machine. It's a machine. I

Matt Eskandari 31:11
heard they don't shoot a lot of their action. I heard a lot of that stuff is there just like Marvel's like, Oh, don't worry about the action, we're going to shoot that and the directors like what I'd like to be on set for that, if possible.

Alex Ferrari 31:21
Unless you're Sam Raimi? And then they Yes, Mr. Ramey, whatever you'd like to do. So that's another really interesting point. How do you deal with the stress of working on these big movies because, you know, in the scope of independent film, 7 million, 10 million, that's, that's a lot of frickin money. You know, it's not studio money. But it's still in the independent world, you're on the upper echelons working with obviously, people like Bruce, and Kevin, unlike a new movie wire room, that these are upper echelon actors. So there's a stress and a responsibility on your shoulders that if you if you screw this up, you might not get another shot. And I'm imagining that's on your head, I don't mean to like throw you on the edge of on the edge here. You're just gonna jump off the bridge now. But like, you know, Alex, you're right, I can't direct anymore. But there is amount of stress that you have to deal with. How do you process that as a director, and so be creative?

Matt Eskandari 32:19
I remember reading the same like years ago that directors actually have or life expectancy is not very high and I can see why. But the DGA I think they like to do it at the DGA statistics. It's not it's not fun that I'm like, Whoa, okay, that's not that's not cool. But But yeah, the stress the day to day stress, like I said, the way I've learned to deal with that is still in flux who tried to steal the value, right? I mean, just don't let the emotions overtake the moment and just be in the moment. And whether it's something really cool that happens, or whether it's something devastating. And a lot of things do happen sometimes like, Oh, we're shooting at this house tomorrow. Guess what, Matt? You just lost the house location. You know, I could pick up a camera and slam it on the ground and lose my shit. But what does that gonna accomplish? Right? instead? I'm like, Okay, look at it, like, like Kubrick used to look at it like a chess game. Right? Okay, let's get to like a chess game. Okay, that piece got moved here. Interesting. Okay, so now how can we address this? Okay, so how do we address this problem? Or how do I make this next move? Or how do I get another piece back or something. So you have to really, over time build that sort of stoic philosophy, at least for me, I felt like that has helped me survive big G's independent films, even though they're a $10 million budget, whatever. There's a lot of stress. There's a lot of time constraints schedule constraints. On the Bruce movies, particularly, sometimes Bruce shows up, he's only there for two days, and you have to shoot 20 pages a day. So and it's guaranteed by the distributor, he has to be in 20 pages of a movie otherwise, yeah. Basically, someone's getting sued. So you know, so you have to make sure that the schedule is purely well, really tight, tight, like a screw. And if things fall apart, you got to be able to adjust right in the moment, right. And Bruce isn't feeling something, okay. He's not feeling doing this. Okay, let's, let's switch it up, man. He doesn't need to do that anymore. Let's figure something else out. I mean, that's just the way it is. Right? So you have to be able to be flexible and kind of roll with the punches as well.

Alex Ferrari 34:28
So as a director, we always go through that day. That is, you feel like the entire world's coming crashing down around you. Use location camera doesn't work, actors not showing up. Something happens. And you're like, oh my god, how am I going to make the day? What was that moment on any of your films? And how did you overcome it? Yeah, I mean, I feel like honestly, I know every day every

Matt Eskandari 34:51
one of those days, you know what I mean? But on this one was particularly challenging. We had such a tight schedule and I know it every day on this one was like that on wire room was like that. And it's just one of those things that you know, you just you roll with the punches and and sometimes I've had actors come up to me specifically and they're like, Man You seem so like common so despite all you, are you Hi. I'm just like, and I try not to put my stress on like the actors because I want them to like I let them be in their little bubble they don't even know what's going on I remember on a movie survive the night we'll get into but basically the crew unique because they they weren't getting paid or some some some crazy app and basically bounced or something. Something crazy happened, right? So then I had this crew members coming up to me like, like something that happened and I'm like, oh, it looks like rain shoot and now right? And they're like, No, we're not gonna shoot you this or checks bounced or something. And I'm like, Oh, that sucks. Like, any toxic producer right now. So like, I'm scrambling. And this is on a big this is on a 10 Nine diamond. Right? So I'm like, How did you like how did this happen to me like, oh, it was like an accounting error or clerical error. And I'm like, guys, man, now we got the crew. Like, we got the crew doesn't want to like they won't, they will get back on set until you pay them. So get the textbooks out and start paying people because we're in trouble. And and then I didn't let the actress find out either. They're just in their trailers like, Let's take him so on. And we're just, you know, we're figuring some things out. But let's just Google the scene and let's, let's dig into the scene. Let's do some rehearsing, you know, Chase chasing how the police was on like, he signed some checks, man, he's not gonna have a loony bus and actually made the producer come out and apologize to the whole crew, the oldest like to just to get them back on our team, right? Get back on our side, you know, and I was like, that's, you know, that's not something want to deal with and stuff like that happening. You have to just really just be a leader and take the punches and get back at it and look at it strategically, like like I said, like chess, like a chess game. And don't let yourself get taken down by it.

Alex Ferrari 37:01
I've been on shoots that the non union crew got flipped. Really? Oh, yeah. That's fun. That and that that movie was stuck in pose for nine months, because they had two big stars because they had stars in it. So that's why the union, the Union came like, oh, what they have these big stars that they can afford this and couldn't. And, and they're sitting with these things in the hard drive. They're like, yeah, we can't find money to finish this thing. I'm like, really, like, you got two huge stars. And this thing, you can't fit it? Yeah, it took them nine months to get some cash together because all the money went to the flip. And this is, this is the stuff they don't talk in film school. They don't talk to you about

Matt Eskandari 37:41
talking about like, you know, the French New Wave and Italian realism and stuff, which is awesome. It's great. I love it. I love that stuff. But then you're like, Okay, how do I actually do? It was shit when I want a movie?

Alex Ferrari 37:56
How do I get on a movie set? And let alone? How do I do? What's up what I get there? So tell me about your new film wire room. With with Bruce and Kevin and Kevin Dillon. Yeah.

Matt Eskandari 38:06
So you know, I've obviously directed four films out Bruce. And this is my latest one, this one for Lionsgate. It's an interesting script, right? So it was pitched to me by some producers. And it's all set in a wire room, which was an interesting hook to me. I've never seen scenes in a film where it was in a wire room. But was what was cool about this was the whole film is just in a wire room. And that whole challenge felt, you know, interesting to me, it kind of took me back to my days of basically prophy D stuck in one location and try and make it visually cinematic, given these constraints. So I thought that was cool. And just the arc of the character how he was doing this conversation with this drug cartel member over surveillance. And over the course of the film, they develop this sort of chemistry and animosity that develops who are expect and but they never actually are alive in a scene together, right? It's all just who monitors and surveillance and all that, to me just it felt like a cool challenge, a fun challenge or something that would push me as a filmmaker. So soon as I read the script, I was like, Yeah, it's interesting. Like, it's something I could definitely see myself doing. And it was a fun, it was a fun movie to make. I mean, it was definitely like I said, it was tough. It was challenging. It was crazy that it all just came together, though. Like one year, we're in the edit. And like, the pacing, and everything just fell into place in a way that I wasn't sure if it was going to work when you're on set every day you're like, and you know, it's one of those things where Kevin's off, I had him shooting all his scenes, right. And I didn't shoot the other actor on the other end yet, right. So I was off camera basically yelling to Kevin telling him like, Hey, this is what's going on. This is what you're seeing on monitors during the middle takes. So it was like, Oh man, how's that going? How's that gonna, like, translate on screen? That's the one of the cool things about working with these skilled actors. It's like something like Kevin. He's just, he's so on it. And he just he comes in prepared. And he's always on every tape. It's just something fun. It's something different. So not showing him how to act. You know what I mean? He's there. He's got something interesting to do.

Alex Ferrari 40:15
And I'll tell you what, man, I remember when I first started working with a real actor, I was like, Oh, so this is what it's like, as opposed to try to pull out performances and deal with egos and stuff like that. And you're just like, Oh, my God, just keep prepared.

Matt Eskandari 40:31
Yeah. That's one of the biggest jobs as an actor. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 40:35
that's like, all I have to do is your action. And cut. Oh, my God, this is wonderful. It's so liberating when, because in the indie world, you don't get to you. Generally speaking, you don't get to work with high end professional actors, not even movie stars, just professional actors, very often, until you get to a certain level. And then when you get to that level, you're just like, I can't go back.

Matt Eskandari 40:58
No, I've had a film that I did independent film where one of the main actors in the film, he didn't have a lot of experience and froze up on that first few days, because they were great actor to write all my auditions, chemistry, they did great. But being an actor, and then be given the pressure of being on a movie set, because you're one of the leads, that's that's a whole other thing, too. I mean, actors have to have their own shit that they got to deal with, right, and to have the exercises to relax themselves and getting them home in and that they've never done that before. Now you're stuck on a set, and you're like, Whoa, what was that? Why was that? So wouldn't and why isn't it working out? It's because they're so in their head, right? They're so stressed out, so.

Alex Ferrari 41:36
And also, and it's also our job to make sure they have a safe space to play. And if they don't feel safe, but they feel like you don't know what you're doing, then they're gonna go into defensive mode, and like, we're just I gotta, I gotta pull out a performance that's gonna save my ass. Because my pictures on this end, if not, my career is going to take a hit

Matt Eskandari 41:55
that 100% I've seen that on sets before where I'd show up. And I could tell that the actor didn't trust the director, and directed itself basically, or she was directing themselves. I'm like, oh, man, I never want to be in that situation. Because basically, you're just, you're not doing it is the director of that actor, you just stare at the monitor and move on to the next thing, and you're just assuming that they know what they're doing? And it's like,

Alex Ferrari 42:17
whoa. Now you've done a lot of action stuff, dude. How do you approach an action sequence on relatively smaller non giant studio budgets? I mean, because I mean, look, seven $10 million. It's not nothing. Exactly, no, nothing budget, but it's but you're the kind of book like the kind of action sequences I've seen that you've done, are on are comparable to $100 million budget, ya know? How do you handle it?

Matt Eskandari 42:45
I feel like a lot of it comes from experience, I mean, it's one of those things where first of all, I like to do as much in camera as possible. It's one of the things I've learned over the years is, as much as you can do practically, with with the action with the effects, you can always enhance it in post, right. So if you go into that with that mentality of like, oh attorney was imposed, or, you know, we can see this, or I can do this and CG, or you're gonna go into it, and you're gonna be trapped in that post, to the effects world where, without that under million dollar budget, it's not going to look like a Marvel action scene, right? Because you didn't spend the time or the money in post to do that. So I feel like a lot of it comes down to experience and preparation, I storyboard almost scenes. And I work with the same last few films I've been lucky to work in same step choreographer is MCU, he's actually worked on Marvel movies, which is clinical. And, and yeah, and I tell them usually like, Look, man, okay, we got this many action scenes in the film. I want this one to be the money, let's put all of our eggs into this basket and really milk the crap out of this one. And then these other ones, okay, they're just shoot out. So whatever, let's not, let's not go overboard on those. But let's, let's get that trailer seen that trailer action scene in this sequence right here. And he gets it. And so we work together. And I trust when he's giving direction to the stunt guys that they're doing the right thing. You know, I'm trusting and it just comes down to that experience and working with great collaborators.

Alex Ferrari 44:17
You know what's interesting, as you were telling me that story, like you're focusing your energy in your budget on a certain scene, I had a friend of mine who used to work at Disney as an animator, and I was I was always going in the back. I was visiting him and you know, seeing frozen before anyone knew what frozen was, I was like, he's against the ice queen thing that we're doing. No one knew what it was going to be or anything. And I was walking the halls. And then I see this board with like, scenes, and then dollar signs, like little daughter dollar bills. And I go, what is that? And he goes, Oh, well, every director gets a stack of money, a fake money. And then they put how much percentage of the budget goes to what Seems so I was like, interesting. So there's like, yeah, so if there's like a really crazy action sequence that they really want a lot of shots and animation stuff, they'll put more money into that. And then other scenes will have to take a little bit of a backseat. So like every scene is going to be a Michael Bay explosion scene, let's say, right, it's, it's good. So it was a really interesting way that Disney has been apparently they've been doing that for a long, long time, because that's just the way Disney works. It's really it's. And then I also found out that nine months before release dates, they usually scrapped the entire movie they've been working on for two years and start again. That is what since since Snow White. Why, since Snow White, that is just for whatever reason, their creative process, like they go through two years, sometimes 10 years like Rapunzel was like a 10 year I saw the original Rapunzel artwork. It was supposed to be like, Leonardo da Vinci artwork, but an entire town built around that style. Is it gone? And they just, and then like the release dates done that the T shirts are being made, the dresses are being built. You got nine months to rebuild, and I was like, what? How did 12 hour 1520 hour days? It's just It's just what they do, man.

Matt Eskandari 46:20
So I didn't know that. That's a little crazy. But the money to do the money and I do it.

Alex Ferrari 46:26
I mean, it's just Yeah, cuz they make you they made a billion off of just the frozen dresses alone. It's insane. Now, I wanted to ask you something, because you've been working with a young up and coming producer named Randall Emmett for a little bit for you just starting out. He's a good guy. He's doing some school stuff. No, but he Randall has this kind of machine that he has built a very impressive machine that he's built. What are some lessons you've learned from working with a producer like him? Because he's popping stuff out? Yeah. Like I haven't seen in a while.

Matt Eskandari 46:59
It's basically he's got like a deal with Lionsgate and basically, they turn and they have this process where, basically, if they can get an A list star, like a Bruce or Mel, it whoever, they get the right script, either a Lions Gate, or one of these studios will basically back to film, and they have a very strict schedule on when it gets released. What has to happen, I think the biggest lesson that I learned from it was, you know, like I said, I mean, you're, you're a director for hire, you're brought in and you have to execute a very strict sort of script, right? It's, it's this much action is to have Bruce or whoever in it for 20 minutes. And there's always to postpone process where you need to deliver the movie on this date has to happen doesn't matter, whatever. So if you're cutting shots out and dependent shots out, so you have to go in there very prepared. And you have to go in there knowing that, you know, I'm not in there to, to turn their movie, turn an action movie into a musical or something, you know, and I'm not coming in there to be like, okay, cool. I just like vision where I want to make this sort of like a, an artsy, whatever, you know, it's like no, man, this movie. There's, it's pre sold to territories all over the world. And they're going to cut a trailer and they're expecting it to be a badass little action movie for middle of the Middle East, you know, wherever it's going, it has to work, right? So you go in there creatively knowing that and being like, okay, how can I, as a director, elevate this, you know, and really take it to the next level, without changing what it is, right? It's like, it's like being given a Coca Cola and being like, Okay, your job is to sell this Coca Cola, don't turn it into it, it's like someone else, you know what I mean? You're still making a Coca Cola, but just deliver it in a way that is interesting and unique and an elevated as much as you can.

Alex Ferrari 48:50
Very, very cool. Yeah, cuz I mean, the closest thing I've seen that Randles deal is just kind of like what Jason Blum has, like, he has a similar thing, like, yeah, boom, boom, machine, boom, boom machine, and they keep pumping out and doing good stuff, doing good stuff at the budget ranges they're doing so it's really interesting, the way you said that is like, look, you're our director for hire, you're not there to rebuild the machine, the machine is running, you're a cog in a very important cog. And you're trying to do what you can within the realm of the limitations that they give you to do some good work within that. It's kind of like the same thing with Marvel, like, you can't,

Matt Eskandari 49:29
you can't go into Marvel and be like, Okay, you guys have decided to make a Marvel movie with, you know, no action in it, and there's gonna be a lot like X rated sexing and they're gonna be like, what? You know, it's not gonna work. So it's a model, right? It's a model that works and sells and audiences pay for it, obviously. So you have to deliver.

Alex Ferrari 49:50
And the one time that Marvel did let that happen, do you know the movie that they did let that happen on where the director had complete carte blanche, they rewrote the origin of The character, and it was a complete and other box office failure. Was it eternal? Oh, no Hulk. Oh, go away. Ang Lee the Angley Hulk, which was like, like, there was abuse in the family. And that's why he was angry in these transitions. And we're like,

Matt Eskandari 50:20
there was no like, action scene in that movie. Right? Well, that kind of was but there was no,

Alex Ferrari 50:23
he's like jumping and beating up tanks and stuff. There's no

Matt Eskandari 50:27
nothing. So once the Hulk smashing somebody, right, I want to say that

Alex Ferrari 50:31
there was no Hulk Smash. There was no Hulk Smash. So how can you have a Hulk movie with no Hulk Smash? Like, there's what so that was, that was the first and I think afterwards gonna face it. Okay. Okay, I don't care if you want an Oscar. This is our characters our way. And this is the way it is. And like when they bring someone like Sam Raimi in, Sam, they just give Sam has a big box to play in. Oh, yeah. But it's still a Marvel movie, but it's a SAM Marvel movie. And they don't do that very often. They usually bring in younger directors that have a cool vision. So but Sam, Sam, I mean,

Matt Eskandari 51:06
no, I mean, and when I was watching that film, I totally felt Sam in that movie. Like this the way scenes are shot, I was like, man, but like, it's still a Marvel movie, right? It wasn't like it's something different, right?

Alex Ferrari 51:20
Like I was, I was afraid to watch it with my daughters. Like, I'm like, I should I shouldn't watch this first before because and there's some imagery in there, man. Yeah, now there's there's some Serious Sam Raimi. But Sam got away with that in Spider Man two after the success of Spider Man One, that whole horror scene with Medaka box is like slicing people with like razor blades in the operating room, like this come from like, that's, that's the Evil Dead? Evil Dead Sea. It's awesome. Now, I'm gonna ask you a few questions asked all of my guests, or what advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today?

Matt Eskandari 51:56
That's a good question. I mean, I know we talked about it briefly before this. It's interesting how so much of the industry has changed so much from when I was growing up in industry. So it's hard for me to say, a very specific thing that that a person can do to go up because I could give the advice that I did shoot a short film, or a film festival won an award, get an agent, right into indie film, but it's like that whole model, I don't know if I can tell you that confidently and say, that's still a viable model these days. Because I don't know. I mean, I'm not an up and coming filmmaker in the trenches. But what I can say is, have a unique voice, have a something to say. And really, don't give up. Like, I know it sounds cliche. And that's something that persist things all the time, but persistence, and if I could sum it all, it just comes down to toughing it out. Don't compare yourself to the one head guy who comes out of film school or whatever it is, erecting a Marvel movie, just don't do it. Just go in there and knowing that I want to be a working director or working cinematographer, or working editor, and focus on that every day. And after years and years of doing it. One day you wake up and I'm like, That's happened to me. I was like, I woke up one day, I was like, Well, I'm like a working director, and I'm getting paid money. And I'm working with like a list. Like if you told me 10 years ago, just one man in 10 years, you're going to work with Bruce Willis and Kevin Beeline and blah, blah, blah. And not only that you're gonna work on versus last movie ever. He's in retire after this and be like, Hi, no, like, no. So you just got to go into it, knowing that and that's, that's, that's hopefully will pay off.

Alex Ferrari 53:31
Now, what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film business or in life?

Matt Eskandari 53:35
The adage of enjoying the journey, not so much a destination and it's another cliche, but you know, as you grow older, a lot of those those old adages, they coalesce in your mind for a reason, it really is the important thing, because then you'll look back and be like, Oh, I remember that movie of that movie. And it's the experiences and making them a really will make them memorable, looking back. And sometimes you won't even watch your old movies anymore. But you remember the people that you worked with the actors, the friends that you made, you know, it's just one of the things you learn as a filmmaker as you get more through your career.

Alex Ferrari 54:09
And three of your favorite films of all time.

Matt Eskandari 54:12
Diehard I gotta say because I'm a huge action director and it's Christmas movie greatest Christmas movie of all time, really all time and it's just a perfect action movie. Bruce is amazing. Genre Canyon.

Alex Ferrari 54:24
And he also made he also made predator another I was

Matt Eskandari 54:26
Gonna say predators, even diehard or predator is one of those. It's so tough. Then second is probably Terminator two. James Cameron sci fi action. I just, it's a perfection. Perfection.

Alex Ferrari 54:40
You can't get any better than that. Oh, no. Aliens so you can alien in Terminator on the same on the same one I'll give you because aliens is a masterpiece.

Matt Eskandari 54:48
Exactly. And probably going to throw a Tony Scott movie on there. So I'm gonna say I'm just so good. So, you know, he's Yeah, actually, that was one of the jokes. I was I had other friends when I mentioned that I was an intern for Ridley Scott and Associates. And I was I was interning with Tony Scott, which was a cool experience.

Alex Ferrari 55:09
What was that? What was those conversations?

Matt Eskandari 55:11
Like, was cool. I mean, I remember they told me like, my manager was like, don't talk to really don't talk to Tony. I was like, What do you think I'm doing it for free. I'm not here to like, you guys do coffee. I'm here to talk to these guys, man. So that we plug them all the time for stuff. And I remember what time I walked into. This was like, interesting. So I walked into his office at the end of the day, I told him the system I was at, it was like, for me, 10 minutes was really nice, too. I talked to him. Yeah. And it's like, 7pm when he's like, done for the day, we'll talk to you for like, 10 minutes have like a one on one. I was like sleep. So then I showed up at seven o'clock. I sat across from him and he's like, Oh, what do you do? And I was like, you know, I'm in film school at USC, blah, blah. I want to be a director, you know, and he's like, cool boys. Like, what are you doing now? What have you shot? And he's been I was like, Well, I shot a couple things, but I want to like, thinking about shooting this one thing. He's like, Alright, cool. I got this one. He's like, go into that bait that Attica when it was nattokinase office. He's like, there's these 35 millimeter short ends. I don't know what I'm using music video or commercial, because I take all those Oh, shoot your movie. And just do it and just go shoot your movie. They'll talk about it. I was like, okay, so I wanted to dedicate the short ends and I was like, Alright, man. Now now I have a mission. I gotta shoot a movie with these short and so it was a cool, it's cool.

Alex Ferrari 56:32
It was almost like a god from Mount Hollywood. And I was like, you take the short ends and go and follow the dream. And look at you as a filmmaker like Ridley Scott told me I have to go shoot this movie. And we're motivated, right?

Matt Eskandari 56:45
I was like, Okay, I have to do it, man really trying to shoot a movie short. And so I got to do it. Yeah. So yeah, it was it was a fun little anecdote in my career. And it was just like, it was cool as far as because that he would actually give me that advice. And but like you said, it's almost like passing on the torch. He's like, I don't have any wonderful advice, man. Just go do something.

Alex Ferrari 57:03
And here take take my short ends for luck. I have not blessed these. You may go and shoot.

Matt Eskandari 57:11
The first film that I shot that won an award so Hey, man, maybe he did?

Alex Ferrari 57:16
Let him man bless by the patron saint of commercials Ridley Scott.

Matt Eskandari 57:25
I used his leftovers but hey, they weren't.

Alex Ferrari 57:27
Hey, man. I'll take really Scott's leftovers any day of the week on about you so when is when is the wire room come out of where can people see it? Why room comes out

Matt Eskandari 57:38
September 2, and it'll be on select theaters. I don't know exactly what it is what it means select theaters or shopping cities. And then it'll be on most of the streaming platforms. Apple iTunes and all those good things so just keep an eye out for it. Search for it.

Alex Ferrari 57:55
Man it's been a pleasure talking to you brother. It's been so much fun talking shop with your continued success brother and and and thank you for bringing Bruce to us in these last few movies that he's been in I really appreciate the work you've been doing. And keep rockin and rollin brother and we should have like a get together for on the lot survivors.

Matt Eskandari 58:16
Man. No, definitely. I mean, it was a pleasure, man. Thank you so much. I mean, I had really great conversation with you. I think what you're doing is great with this podcast and with this site. So you know helping out the next generation. I think that's important too as filmmakers. We got to pass our short and it's down to the next

Alex Ferrari 58:34
I appreciate you brother.

Matt Eskandari 58:38
Yeah, same brother. It was good to talk to you, man. Take care.

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Denis Villeneuve’s Short Film: Terre des Hommes

Terre des Hommes is a short film that Denis Villeneuve created as part of the “La course Europe-Asie” project for Radio-Canada in 1990-91.

Denis Villeneuve: Complete Guide To His Directing Techniques

Download Denis Villeneuve’s Screenplay Collection in PDF

SHORTCODE - SHORTS

Want to watch more short films by legendary filmmakers?

Our collection has short films by Martin Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino, the Coen Brothers, Chris Nolan, Tim Burton, Steven Spielberg & more.

Artlist Launches Its First Video and Image Editing Software

Artlist, the creative technology company with innovative post-production software and over 1M digital assets available to license, announces today the introduction of the first software release under the FXhome by Artlist brand, an upgraded video, VFX, and image editing program with improvements and new subscription plans. FXhome was acquired in 2021 as part of Artlist’s mission to increase the value of its products. This represents the first and significant move to align the FXhome by Artlist brand with its parent company’s vision.

This new features and business model will make Artlist’s line of software products more usable and cost-effective than ever before and break down barriers for digital creators, which has been the company’s goal since it was founded. As part of the overhaul, Artlist has integrated part of its high-quality digital assets directly into the software to have it accessible to anyone using it and added four new subscription tiers for FXhome by Artlist’s products:

  • Free: The basic video editing tools on HitFilm are 100% free, unlimited exports up to HD, and the option to download 10 royalty-free songs, 25 sound effects, and 5 templates.
  • Creator: Designed for rising independent creators and includes access to advanced video & image editing tools, HitFilm Creator and Imerge Creator, in addition to unlimited exports up to 4K UHD, 100 royalty-free songs, 100 sound effects, and 25 templates.
  • Pro: Geared towards a higher level of creators, the Pro tier includes unlimited access to HitFilm Pro, Imerge Pro, Mocha HitFilm, BorisFX 3D Objects, Foundry 3D Camera Tracker, and unlimited exports up to 8K, in addition to 200 royalty-free songs, 200 sound effects, and 50 templates.
  • Enterprise: Offers creative solutions tailored to an organization’s specific needs for bundling pro software and content with customized terms and licensing agreements.Since community guidance and usability are at the core of Artlist’s mission, all paid tiers will offer new and improved features. These include a Learn Panel with useful video tutorials and a Creative Library with music and footage from Artlist – the licensed assets available as part of every subscription tier.This shift towards a subscription model will allow a wide range of beginner creators to use video editing tools and software, however creators who would still rather make a one-time purchase of HitFilm, CamTrackAR, or any other of FXhome by Artlist products (accessible into perpetuity) will still be able to do so. Existing users won’t lose access to their perpetual licenses, which

Artlist will continue to support and maintain. Those users can, of course, still upgrade to the new version of HitFilm to receive all the latest features and updates.

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Ultimate Guide To Terrence Malick And His Directing Techniques


BADLANDS (1973)

I would apologize in advance if these writings tend to get a little flowery or indulgent, but frankly, I’m not sorry.  Of all the filmmakers to make their distinct mark on the art form, director Terrence Malick is my personal favorite– I’m no doubt going to find a lot to say about him and his work, and I’m damn well going to have fun while I do it.

My first brush with Malick’s films came later than most, about a year or two after graduating from college.  I was a big fan of director David Gordon Green at the time (particularly his first four features), and my exploration of those films led me to discover that Green regarded Malick as a chief influence on his style.

Indeed, Green’s debt to Malick was so great that Malick had taken him on as something of a protege, serving as an executive producer on Green’s third feature, UNDERTOW (2004).  Upon learning this, I embarked on what you might argue was a supremely early and bare-bones version of the process I would later adopt for The Directors Series; I maxed out my Netflix DVD queue with all of his films (which only numbered four by that point) and binged them in chronological order.

I don’t think I’d ever fallen for the style of a filmmaker so quickly and completely as I did for Malick– like Paul Thomas Anderson had done for me when I began college, Malick opened my eyes once again to the infinite possibilities of cinematic storytelling.

The terms we use to describe cinema allude to its nature as a visual art form: movies; motion pictures; films. The bulk of the medium’s first three decades of existence were almost exclusively visual, until 1927’s THE JAZZ SINGER popularized the practice of syncing picture to pre-recorded sound.

The image, therefore, is the most fundamental and most pure aspect of cinema; the most basic building block.  The manner in which these various building blocks are arranged naturally determines the shape of story, but it also reveals the shape of the builder.

Some builders are content to arrange their blocks as others have done, following pre-established blueprints that guarantee structural integrity and a coherent form.  Other builders, however, arrange their blocks in new shapes entirely, challenging our fundamental assumptions about cinematic storytelling.

Many directors use their work to break new ground in visual language, but very few have dedicated the entirety of their life and career to it like Terrence Malick has.  Since his debut with 1973’s BADLANDS, Malick has consistently pushed the boundaries of narrative storytelling and structure, elevating his work from the realm of entertainment to that of poetry.

If cinema can be thought of as a visual art dealing in space, time, and motion, then there’s a case to be made that Malick is its purest practitioner — a priest who sermonizes through film and sees the moviehouse as a kind of cathedral where the faithful can gather for a shared transcendent experience.

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Malick looms large in the cinematic psyche for a variety of reasons.  His aesthetic has influenced a variety of pop culture mediums like music videos and commercials, and prominent contemporary filmmakers like Christopher Nolan cite him as a key influence.

One of the most mysterious aspects about Malick is his personal aversion to the spotlight– he’s gained a reputation as an eccentric recluse who values his anonymity to the point that he doesn’t make publicity appearances, give interviews, or even allow his picture to be taken on set.

He’s relaxed this position somewhat in recent years, but he’s still fiercely protective of his private life. There’s also his infamous disappearance from the industry altogether, with a twenty-year gap in the middle of his career where nobody can fully account for his whereabouts or actions.

Simply put, Malick endures because he has cultivated a myth about himself that’s larger than life.  The same can be said of his work, which deals in the language of American mythmaking, folklore, and spirituality.  The late Roger Ebert was a champion of his work– his final review was a rapturous, beautifully-written response to Malick’s TO THE WONDER (2012), a film that many other critics derided upon its release.

Ebert considered Malick’s work to have a single, unifying theme: “Human lives diminish between the overarching majesty of the world”.  To put it another way, Malick’s work posits that our human dramas are rendered insignificant by the radiant beauty of the natural world.  Yet, being creations of that world ourselves, we are inherently connected to it in a spiritual sense and made beautiful by association.

This sentiment echoes throughout Malick’s (to-date) nine films, his sensitivity to the poetry of life imprinting his work with an emotional intellect and strong philosophical overtones.  With each subsequent work, he seeks to refine and perfect a special harmony between picture and sound– even as it ignores long-established storytelling conventions and puts him increasingly at odds with critics and mainstream audiences.

Especially as of late, critics tend to regard Malick’s work as obtuse, pretentious and boring– they charge that he keeps making the same film over and over again.  To a certain extent, they’re correct– the same themes and aesthetic flourishes show up time and time again with a dependable consistency, right down to his use of meditative voiceovers delivered in hushed tones.

This shouldn’t be confused with the notion that he keeps remaking the same film, however.  His signature themes– abstract concepts like the natural harmony of the universe, all of humanity belonging to one cosmic soul, transcendence, the eternal conflict between reason and instinct, the clash between the industrial and the agrarian, and the majesty of myth — are so vast and profound that a lifetime’s worth of feature films doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of a comprehensive exploration.

Malick is well aware he can’t possibly plumb the full depths of such heady concepts in one lifetime, so he fashions his films as ideological way-stations for us to anchor ourselves to while we forge our own expeditions into the Interior Unknown.  His filmography has spawned many imitators in the decades since (this guy, right here), but he nevertheless remains an entirely original, unique, and vital voice in contemporary American filmmaking.

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Malick’s own story begins on November 30th, 1943, in Ottawa, Illinois. The first son of Irene and Emil A. Malick, young Terry knew both pain and privilege in his formative years.

The American Dream had been especially kind to Emil, whose own parents had been Assyrian Christian immigrants from Lebanon and what is now modern-day Iran– he found intellectual fulfillment through his work as a geologist, as well as financial fulfillment when he became an executive for an oil company.

Terry’s childhood was spent in Bartlesville, Oklahoma as well as Austin, Texas, where he attended St. Stephens Episcopal School and is still reported to reside, at least as of 2011.  The three Malick boys– Terry, and his brothers, Chris and Larry– were raised to excel in academics.

This high-pressure environment had differing effects on the brothers; whereas Terry’s intellectual inclinations propelled him to a summa cum laude AB degree in philosophy from Harvard, his musically-gifted younger brother Larry intentionally broke his own hands over the pressure of his music studies.

This episode, and Larry’s apparent suicide shortly thereafter, proved to be a formative experience for Terry, with echoes of the event reverberating through the interior dramas of films like 2011’s THE TREE OF LIFE and 2015’s KNIGHT OF CUPS.

During the summers of his college years, Malick put his quiet life of academic privilege on hold in favor of hard manual labor in the great outdoors, doing back-breaking work on oil rigs and driving cement trucks in rail yards.

For his graduate studies, Malick left the US to attend Magdalene College at Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, but after getting into a disagreement with his thesis advisor over the concept of “world” in the philosophical writings of Kierkegaard, Heidegger and Wittgenstein, he dropped out altogether.

Upon his return to the US, Malick taught philosophy at MIT and served as a freelance journalist for Newsweek, The New Yorker, and Life Magazine.  All of this is to say that, at the tender young age of 26, Malick had already lived a well-rounded life full of many academic and professional accomplishments, and yet he’d barely scratched the surface of the man he was destined to become.

He would find his true calling in 1969, when he enrolled in the American Film Institute’s inaugural class (alongside future luminaries like David Lynch and Paul Schrader) in pursuit of an MFA degree in filmmaking.  It was here that that he made his first film, a comedy short called LANTON MILLS that featured himself and a young Harry Dean Stanton as Old West cowboys trying to rob a modern bank.

Malick’s stint at AFI also proved beneficial in terms of his connections to the industry, marking the beginning of long creative partnerships with students like Jack Fisk and Mike Medavoy, who would go on to become his regular production designer and agent, respectively.

During this fruitful and exploratory time, Malick married his first wife, Jill Jakes, and began working as a screenwriter, doing uncredited passes on Don Siegel’s DIRTY HARRY (1971) and Jack Nicholson’s DRIVE, HE SAID (1971).

Under the pseudonym David Whitney, Malick also wrote the screenplays for POCKET MONEY (1972) and THE GRAVY TRAIN (1974).  When his script, DEADHEAD MILES, was made into a film that Paramount found to be unreleasable, Malick decided to take his fate into his own hands and become a director himself.

By this point, Malick had become something of a protege of director Arthur Penn, most famous for his trailblazing crime classic, BONNIE & CLYDE (1969).  Naturally, BONNIE & CLYDE provided the raw cinematic template for a fictional story that the 27 year-old Malick drew from the real-life murder spree performed by Charles Starkweather and Caril Fugate.

Fascinated by Starkweather’s dark charisma and cool, narcissistic detachment from the magnitude of his crimes, Malick hammered out a screenplay during a road trip about two young lovers on the run.  The more he wrote, the less his story became about the sensationalistic crimes of Starkweather and Fugate, and more about his childhood in Texas and the particular way he internalized the majesty of the natural world.

Giving his project the title BADLANDS, Malick set about putting the pieces in motion to make his first feature film.  This being an independent film, the process of financing the picture was the most difficult, and most urgent, aspect to be dealt with.

Towards that end, Malick put in $25,000 of his own savings, and raised an additional $125k by pitching wealthy doctors and dentists.  Around this time, he also met Edward Pressman, an aspiring producer who had recently inherited a successful toy company.  Pressman managed to kick in a matching contribution, providing Malick with a combined $300k in funding to start shooting his first feature film.

Taking its title from the eponymous national park in South Dakota, BADLANDS begins in the tiny rural town of Dupree sometime in the late 1950’s.  The story is told from the perspective of a naive and virginal teenage girl named Holly, played by Sissy Spacek in one of her first film roles.

Through her disaffected voiceover, Holly gives us a relatively banal overview of her world, sharing details about her beloved dog, the dollhouse-like Victorian home she shares with her stern and overbearing father (played by Warren Oates), and even her baton-twirling routine.

Malick meticulously set up this dreamy world of suburban nostalgia and childlike wonder, only to smash it all to bits with the introduction of an aimless 25 year-old trashman named Kit.  Played by Martin Sheen in his breakout performance after toiling away for years as an obscure journeyman actor on television, Kit is detached, aloof, and emotionally distant to the point of sociopathy.

He fancies himself a small-town James Dean– only, without the talent or the ambition.  After losing his job as a trashman, Kit finds temporary work as a ranch hand and fills his spare time by pursuing a romantic relationship with Holly.

Naturally, this comes as a contentious development for Holly’s possessive father, who expresses his displeasure by shooting Holly’s dog.  When his pleas to the father’s sentimental side wither on the vine, Kit decides that the only way he and Holly can be together is to remove the father altogether.

He does just that, shooting him dead in cold blood and setting his quaint Victorian house ablaze before driving off into the night to start a new life with Holly.  Drunk on the ambrosia of first love and blinded to the implications of their murderous actions by their youthful innocence, Kit and Holly slowly make their way westward– learning to live off the grid and racking up an alarming body count in an increasingly desperate bid to cover their tracks.

As they venture deeper into the wild American frontier, Kit and Holly realize that their passionate love affair is going to be short-lived, and that their day of reckoning is coming up fast on on the horizon.  The triumvirate of Sheen, Spacek, and Oates anchors BADLANDS as a character-focused chamber piece despite the sprawling backdrop of open road and endless sky.

Other supporting actors come and go as needed, filling out their world with interesting shades of regional color.  Indeed, Malick’s tendency to let his camera drift from his lead actors towards the fascinating facial landscapes of his extras begins here, with shots that linger on the weathered, corn-fed faces of America’s heartland and counteract the polished Hollywood beauty of the two leads.

In a way, the cameos of BADLANDS are more interesting than the performances of its supporting players– at least in retrospect.  An inconsequential shot of two young boys playing in the street under a lamppost becomes much more compelling when we learn that those two boys are none other than Martin’s sons, Charlie Sheen and Emilio Estevez, making what one could argue is their film debut.

The most compelling cameo of all is the one belonging to Malick himself.  For decades, the only public recording of Malick’s image or voice was as a 27 year-old briefly appearing here as an architect making a house call to a rich man that Kit and Holly are holding captive.

The move was made out of necessity, when the actor scheduled to play the role never made it to set and Malick had to step in.  His brief appearance in BADLANDS is arguably one of the most dissected and analyzed cameos in cinema history, done in the hopes that the slightest of verbal quirks or physical mannerisms might hold some profound revelations about one of the art form’s most enigmatic personas.

Critics and audiences alike have come to regard Malick as an artist with a divine eye when it comes to cinematography, able to consistently capture some of the most beautiful images ever committed to film. BADLANDS begins this aspect of his reputation in earnest, adopting a sumptuous and majestic visual style in spite of its limited funds and scrappy production resources.

Indeed, the production history of BADLANDS is famously troubled, with no less than three cinematographers to its credit and a plethora of non-union crew members abandoning the film mid-shoot.

In deciding to produce on top of directing, Malick quickly thrust himself into the logistical chaos of making an independent feature film– David Handelman’s article for California Magazine, titled “Absence Of Malick”, details a rocky shoot in which the first-time director forfeited his own salary, asked his cast and crew to work for peanuts, and couldn’t even guarantee his investors that the film would be completed or distributed.

On top of that, Malick’s creative energies were constantly divided by insurance costs, equipment damage, an increasingly-rebellious crew, and, apparently, angry landowners brandishing shotguns.

His relative inexperience, combined with his total conviction in his artistic vision, drove a revolving door of cinematographers that began with Brian Probyn, who reportedly felt that Malick’s approach to coverage was incoherent and refused to shoot the film as his director desired.

The second cinematographer, Tak Fujimoto, was eventually replaced by a third, Stevan Larner, before production ultimately wrapped.  By virtue of shooting in unauthorized locations with very little money, Malick would later joke to the press that the process of shooting left him feeling like he too was on the run, just like his protagonists.

Handelman’s article goes on to note that, by the last two weeks of principal photography, all that remained of Malick’s crew were him, his wife, his art director and friend from AFI, Jack Fisk, and a local high school student.

Considering the film’s ridiculously troubled production history, it’s a minor miracle that the final product is virtually seamless, unified under an utterly unique vision that Malick could perhaps only articulate in the editing room.

Shot on 35mm film in the 1.85:1 aspect ratio, BADLANDS adopts an observational style of cinematography, opting for relatively simple setups that aim to capture the rugged beauty of the natural world.  Malick’s preference for natural light optimizes this approach, often filming his scenes during the golden glow of magic hour or the dim sheen of twilight just afterward.

Indeed, Malick’s propensity for shooting at sunset is one of the most visible aspects of his visual aesthetic, influencing countless waves of other filmmakers to embrace the radiant beauty it can bestow on a scene.  Malick’s wider filmography has gone on to capture and dissect the fleeting impermanence of life and the natural world, finding a transcendent beauty in the cycles of day and night; of life, death, and rebirth.

He’s gained a reputation for letting his camera drift away from his actors mid-take to shoot something as seemingly innocuous as a butterfly landing on a flower.  Critics tend to deride this behavior as either an act of distraction or affected pretentiousness, but in the context of Malick’s larger body of work, it becomes clear that this is an act of searching and exploration; he’s not trying to different or artsy for his own sake, but rather, he’s inviting us to see the world as he does.

In this light, Malick’s frequent use of magic hour photography isn’t just an attempt to beautify his images on a surface level– it’s an earnest attempt to capture the quiet insights into our interconnectedness via the scattering of dying photons.  These images are pretty to look at, yes– but they are made so by virtue of their fragile ephemerality.

In a filmography defined by its radical experimentalism, BADLANDS is quite easily Malick’s most “conventional” work.  He stages his scenes as the complete, self-contained building blocks of story that they are, arranging them in chronological order.

Through Malick’s technical execution, we can get a sense of what kind of filmmaker the budding auteur originally thought he might be.  His use of clean dolly moves and majestic crane shots suggest an early inclination towards old-school Hollywood studio filmmaking, while his jarring incorporation of handheld camerawork during intense sequences — like Kit dousing Holly’s house with gasoline or the police’s armed siege on their treehouse camp — also evidences a director influenced by the bold reinvention of visual language in midcentury international and independent cinema.

Malick’s handling of a climactic shootout and car chase displays the same aptitude towards action that he brought to the screenplay for DIRTY HARRY while offering a glimpse into a tantalizing alternate universe where he chose to pursue audience-pleasing genre pictures instead of navel-gazing philosophical epics.

It’s in the editing of BADLANDS that the conceits we’ve come to regard as Malick’s stylistic signatures make themselves first known.  Robert Estrin holds the corresponding editing credit for BADLANDS, but his cut was summarily rejected by Malick relatively early in the process– most likely when the filmmaker ran out of cash and had to fund the film’s finishing by taking on rewrite jobs for screenplays.

The cut that was eventually released to the world would be performed instead by an uncredited editor named Billy Weber, who has since gone on to cut all of Malick’s subsequent films. Whether by design or complete accident, the unique, lyrical nature of BADLANDS’ editing would nonetheless form the foundation of Malick’s artistic aesthetic.

His use of introspective and, at times, philosophically-rambling voiceover has become ubiquitous across his body of work– and a frequent target of derision by spiteful critics.  BADLANDS establishes the basic template of the Malick voiceover device, which runs counter to the convention’s usual deployment as an agent of narration or exposition by expressing the protagonist’s unconscious monologue in broad, abstract ideas that speak to the shared experience of humanity at large.

Malick’s first iteration of this unconventional technique is, like his technical execution, decidedly more conventional than the rest of his filmography, adopting Holly’s perspective to tell the story of her ill-fated romance with Kit.  Her voiceover plays like a disaffected, somewhat-bored reading of a teenage girl’s diary, subverting the brutality of Kit’s murderous actions on-screen with a gauzy, dreamlike quality that places the audience at several degrees of remove from the immediacy of their journey.

Indeed, BADLANDS often feels less like a lurid crime romance and more like a mythic storybook, or a fairy tale — a vibe cultivated primarily by Holly’s voiceover but also by Malick’s frequent use of atmosphere-generating cutaways and Fisk’s minimal, yet timeless, approach to the production design’s period elements.

Malick’s particular use of music, another major component of his artistic aesthetic, also reinforces the fairy-tale tone of BADLANDS.  While George Alison Tipton holds the film’s credit for music, BADLANDS’ most notable music cue belongs to Carl Off, whose “Gassenhauer” from Musica Poetica becomes the film’s de facto theme.

The piece, initially introduced to Malick by fellow director Irvin Kirshner, is characterized by a suite of xylophones, timpanis and recorders that convey a playful, innocent tone.  Kirshner prized the song because of its original purpose as a musical education device for children– indeed, the particular recording that BADLANDS uses in the edit is actually performed by children, sublimely complementing the air of childlike innocence Malick strives to create.

The track has endured as one of the film’s most iconic qualities, going on to influence later lovers-on-the-run films like Tony Scott’s TRUE ROMANCE (1993) (which features an original score by Hans Zimmer that plays like an inverted imitation of “Gassenhauer”).

BADLANDS’ other musical elements establish the consistent approach Malick would bring to the soundtracks of his later works– his use of choral music during the house burning sequence or the treehouse ambush foreshadows his later incorporation of religious and classical music, while the inclusion of a Nat King Cole song establishes a taste for contemporary pop music that’s been explored most recently and extensively in films like KNIGHT OF CUPS and SONG TO SONG (2016).

What’s perhaps most remarkable about BADLANDS is the impression that Malick’s debut announces the arrival of a fully-formed talent.  Whereas many successful directors sculpt their artistic identity through the process of making their early works, Malick’s breadth of life experience and relatively narrow range of philosophical fascinations imbues BADLANDS with a self-actualized confidence that establishes the key thematic fascinations that inform nearly all of the director’s subsequent films.

The film’s plot might resemble a dime store romance, but Malick filters the story through heady, sophisticated themes like instinct versus reason, the loss of innocence, and the failing of language against the luminosity of the natural world.

Teenage romance is an interesting avenue for Malick to begin his cinematic exploration of the interior conflict between instinct and reason, precisely because teenagers often confuse instinct and reason into one muddled, hormone-fueled mess.

This is certainly the case in BADLANDS, with the protagonists following their instincts to their ill-fated ends without any regard for logic or rational thought.  Indeed, in their minds, they’re the only sane ones in a world gone mad; the only thing that seems reasonable is the fiery, unpredictable passion that drives them.

In this regard, Kit and Holly are outliers in the pantheon of Malick protagonists– they have the gift of conviction about themselves and the righteousness of their efforts.  Aside from her accompanying voiceover throughout, Holly’s gradual awakening to the seriousness of their crimes is the major clue pointing to her position as BADLANDS’ true protagonist (despite Sheen’s top billing).

Her literal loss of innocence poses a poignant counterpoint to Malick’s delicately-crafted storybook tone– her sexual relationship with Kit becomes akin to eating the fruit from The Tree Of Knowledge, and as punishment she must be cast from the Garden of her youth and naïveté.

Malick’s explorations of these interior conflicts are effortlessly juxtaposed against the exterior world, and often lean into the spiritual connotations of nature and creation.  Indeed, his films treat nature as something of a cathedral, where one can experience spiritual and emotional transcendence.

Malick’s characters are imperfect figures in a perfect world; walking contradictions that are at once both ants insignificant comparative to the endless scale of the universe as well as individual vessels of godliness plugged directly into one cosmic soul.

In this light, the numerous cutaway shots that critics deride as the trivial, unfocused wanderings of a restless eye instead become profound earthly metaphors for his characters’ interior states and the natural rhythms of the world that surrounds them.

In BADLANDS, Malick hints at Man’s destruction of Paradise– a conceit that informs all his films– with cutaways that introduce decay and corruption into the beauty of the natural world.  A fish lies in the grass, desperately drowning in the open air; Kit steps onto a dead cow for no reason but his own disaffected amusement; wildlife fruitlessly scours the desolate prairie for life-sustaining nourishment.

No words are necessary for Malick to convey these ideas– his eye for impromptu composition, flair for harnessing the sublime power of natural light, and willingness to follow his inspiration at the expense of all else empowers him with an almost supernatural ability to convey profoundly abstract existential ideas through entirely visual means.

It’s evident for all to see now that BADLANDS heralded the arrival of a major new talent in American cinema, but it hasn’t always been that way– indeed, the road to classic status was long and riddled with potholes.  BADLANDS debuted at the New York Film Festival alongside fellow director Martin Scorsese’s breakout picture, MEAN STREETS, but even its selection for the prestigious festival was fraught with peril.

Anecdotes recount a catastrophic preview screening for the festival board where the picture was out of focus and the sound mix was unclear; even the print itself reportedly broke down. Despite this series of outright disasters, they still couldn’t deny the visceral power of Malick’s fresh new voice, and gave BADLANDS the prestigious closing night programming slot.

Based off the rave reviews from festival critics, Warner Brothers swooped in and paid just under a million dollars for the distribution rights.  This, perhaps, was likely the worst thing that could’ve happened to BADLANDS at the time.  The studio knew they liked the film, but it appears they didn’t know what to do with it.

Leaning heavily into a scheme that that marketed the film as a pulpy genre picture (which it most decidedly was not), Warner Brothers released BADLANDS as part of a double bill with Mel Brooks’ BLAZING SADDLES.  The general release critics didn’t share the same view of Malick’s first feature as the festival critics did, and BADLANDS subsequently languished in box office oblivion.

Determined to prove that the film could indeed perform, Pressman and his team programmed a second release, booking BADLANDS into small regional theaters on its own.  Pressman’s risky gambit proved inspired, with audiences finally catching on to BADLANDS’ brilliance.

As Malick’s filmography has grown, BADLANDS has only become more enshrined as a cinematic classic, as well as an iconic work in the New Hollywood wave of filmmaking that elevated such contemporaries as Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola, and Steven Spielberg to prominence.

BADLANDS’ mark on American culture was etched in stone when the Library of Congress selected the film for a spot in the National Film Registry in 1993– its first year of eligibility.  Over forty years after its release, the power of BADLANDS endures, beckoning audiences again and again with a dreamy, golden-tinged nostalgia for an America that never really existed– except maybe in our own delusions.


DAYS OF HEAVEN (1978)

Many films lay claim to the honor of “The Most Beautiful Motion Picture Ever Made”, but the fact of the matter is that only a scant few are truly worthy of this superlative status. To my mind, the pinnacle of cinematic beauty is a draw between two iconic films: Stanley Kubrick’s BARRY LYNDON (1975) and Terrence Malick’s DAYS OF HEAVEN (1978).

There’s a good reason why I can’t decide between the two, and it owes mostly to the observation that they share an impeccably sumptuous visual style despite their immediate differences.  Both films were produced in the heyday of the auteur-driven New Hollywood era of the 1970’s, and made evocative use of new stylistic techniques as well as radical innovations in film craft.

Both tell a relatively small story on an epic scale, elevating the respective plights of a shameless social climber and a deceitful farmhand into the realm of myth.  Even in their differences, the two films complement each other quite harmoniously: BARRY LYNDON’s stately and cynical portrait of an ineffectual elite class and the European Old World balances against DAYS OF HEAVEN’s majestic romanticism of The New World and the endless bounty availed of those willing to work hard for it.

If push were to come to shove, however, my personal opinion is that DAYS OF HEAVEN wins out over Kubrick’s masterpiece as far as cinematic beauty is concerned.  As the film’s fortieth anniversary rapidly approaches, it’s clear that DAYS OF HEAVEN continues to inspire and influence emerging filmmakers all over the world (myself included)– the cinematic equivalent of a beautiful, enigmatic flower still in bloom, revealing itself anew which each viewing.

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One of the biggest challenge facing any burgeoning director working within the long-form narrative space is the sophomore feature, especially if the director’s debut film was well-received.  If the second film succeeds, then the path forward becomes clearer and more open.

If it doesn’t, then that path can become a confusing maze that could take years to navigate– that is, assuming one is able to even emerge in the first place.  The troubled creative process for DAYS OF HEAVEN is well-documented, suggesting that Malick routinely flirted with professional and artistic disaster during the making of his second feature film.

In the end, however, his unique artistic worldview pulled him back from the brink to deliver a film that would go on to become one of the shining beacons of 1970’s American cinema.  Indeed, it’s difficult to imagine a film like DAYS OF HEAVEN being made within the studio system today; it is undeniably a product of its time– a time when ambitious auteurs drove the course of the industry and made intensely personal works that challenged our most fundamental notions of what a movie could be.

One of the most prominent personalities in this scene was producer Bert Schneider, the co-founder of BBS. BBS essentially spearheaded the New Hollywood zeitgeist, producing groundbreaking independent films like Dennis Hopper’s EASY RIDER (1969) and Bob Rafelson’s FIVE EASY PIECES (1970), amongst others.

Malick’s 1973 debut with BADLANDS made a big impression on Schneider, and he reportedly sought out Malick in Cuba to discuss the director’s idea for the project that would ultimately become DAYS OF HEAVEN.  Schneider’s producing clout would prove instrumental, setting up DAYS OF HEAVEN with a sweet deal at Paramount that gave the filmmakers $3 million in financing and complete creative freedom.

This early achievement is all the more impressive considering the historical context in which it happened. The auteur-driven era of filmmaking wouldn’t completely collapse for another few years, when Michael Cimino’s outlandishly expensive HEAVEN’S GATE opened in 1980 and performed so poorly that it forced its studio, United Artists, into bankruptcy.

However, studios in the mid-70’s were already evidencing signs of a shift away from artistic excess, bringing in a growing pool of network television executives who pursued the sort of middle-brow fare that routinely blared from the small screen.

Schneider’s involvement was prestigious enough that Paramount was willing to go for broke on a young, relatively untested director’s sweeping vision, but even then this came at a high cost– Schneider would have to personally answer for any cost or time overruns.

Nevertheless, Bert and his producing partner/brother Harold Schneider had faith in Malick, and in short order, the creative team had boots on the ground in Alberta, Canada– an idyllic, pastoral landscape of sprawling wheat fields and low-sloping hills that, knowingly or not, they would soon make iconic.

DAYS OF HEAVEN is set on the eve of the First World War, opening in the smoky industrial centers of Chicago to find a poor worker bee named Bill (Richard Gere) killing his employer after a particularly bitter argument, the details of which are obscured by the deafening clang of the surrounding machinery.

Rather than face justice for his crime of heated passion, he runs away instead, hopping a train with his quietly-elegant girlfriend and tomboyish kid sister.  They whisk themselves away to the foreign landscape of the Texas Panhandle, where they quickly find work as farmhands for a wealthy local farmer, posing as brother and sisters so as to throw off any would-be pursuers.

When the terminally-ill farmer, played by the late actor/playwright Sam Shepard in one of his most classic and compelling performances, expresses a romantic interest in Bill’s girlfriend, Abby (Brooke Adams), she and Bill hatch a conniving scheme to marry her off to the Farmer in the expectation that he’ll die soon and leave his sizable fortune to her.

As the central pair of deceitful lovers, Richard Gere and Brooke Adams are confronted with the unenviable challenge of preserving a baseline of likability despite their craven misdeeds.  Malick had already walked this line rather well with Martin Sheen’s murderous James Dean-wannabe in BADLANDS, and manages to direct Gere and Adams to similar effect here.

Like Sheen and Sissy Spacek before them, Gere and Adams were relative unknown when they joined Malick’s cast– DAYS OF HEAVEN was technically Gere’s first role in a motion picture, but the film’s delayed release would find the actor already well-known from his breakout performance in a subsequent project, LOOKING FOR MR. GOODBAR.

Gere’s natural charisma and good looks allow him to quite literally get away with murder in the eyes of the audience; indeed, Malick refuses to judge the moral character of either Bill or his earthier accomplice, Abby. Their criminal calculations read as hungry passion, and their murderous offenses play instead as defense.

They are simply, like so many of the other weathered, faceless forms that populate the farmer’s wheat fields, trying to play the bum hand that life has dealt them.  As the runaway trio ingratiate themselves deeper into the lap of rustic luxury and the farmer’s good graces, the farmer ironically finds his health improving.

The more time passes, the more reckless Bill and Abby grow in their concealment of the true nature of their relationship from The Farmer.  The Farmer inevitably becomes suspicious, and thus the stage is set for a slow-burning confrontation with irrevocable consequences for not just all involved, but also for the romantic era of the agrarian frontier itself.

Like BADLANDS before it, the production of DAYS OF HEAVEN was a rocky, arduous slog marked by severe creative frustrations, Malick’s complete devotion to the fickle whims of nature, and a rebellious crew unaccustomed to their director’s unorthodox style of shooting.

Indeed, Malick’s insistence on the integrity of his vision was so total that he inevitably ran afoul of his own producers, forcing Bert Schneider into multiple confrontations about cost overruns and missed deadlines that put the cost-conscious producer in the loathsome position of having to ask Paramount for more money.

Stories abound about vaguely-specified call sheets that left each day’s work up to total improvisation, or wasting days of valuable shooting time waiting for the weather to provide an elusively-exact quality of light.  At one point, Malick was so disappointed with the footage he’d obtained that he threw out his carefully-crafted script altogether, and started shooting untold miles of film with which to find the story in post-production.

This was a desperate move, to be sure, but also an extremely formative experience whose ultimate success encouraged him to adopt the technique in later works as part of his routine creative process.

Whereas BADLANDS’ production woes centered around a revolving door of cinematographers, DAYS OF HEAVEN finds Malick benefiting from a collaboration with two sympathetic cinematographers who were willing to indulge in his artistic whims.

After seeing Nestor Almendros’ camera work in Francois Trauffaut’s 1970 film, WILD CHILD, Malick wanted to hire the seasoned cinematographer so badly that he willingly contended with the fact that Almendors was actually going blind.

This arguably makes the film’s visual accomplishments all the more staggering– in a sublime moment of technical harmony with Malick’s fascination with the beauty of  life’s ephemerality, DAYS OF HEAVEN’s luminous, unforgettable images reveal themselves as the creative product of a degenerating eye, quickly losing its ability to absorb the light so crucial to capturing these fleeting moments on film.

Malick had intended to shoot the entire picture with Almendros, but found himself caught in a situation of his own making, with the numerous shooting delays causing Almendros to depart fifty days into the production and fulfill a prior obligation to shoot Truffaut’s upcoming project, THE MAN WHO LOVED WOMEN.

His uncredited replacement was maverick independent filmmaker Haskell Wexler, at this point perhaps best known for his incendiary countercultural rallying cry of a film, MEDIUM COOL (1968).  After observing Almendros’ technique for a week, Wexler subsequently took over for the final weeks of shooting, generating so much footage that he would later claim as much as half of the finished film as his handiwork.

It speaks volumes towards Wexler and Almendros’ professionalism and creative commitment to their director that the finished product is virtually seamless in its visual cohesion.

It also speaks magnitudes about the strength and consistency of Malick’s vision for the film as a whole, which drew major influence from the iconic paintings of Edward Hopper and Andrew Wyeth in the conveyance of a world both profoundly entwined in, and yet entirely removed, from time.

One of the film’s centerpiece images is that of the Farmer’s imposing Victorian mansion, sitting alone amidst an endless wheat field– an image ripped straight from the canvas of Hopper’s “The House By The Railroad”.

Most films of the era would have built only the facade of the house and captured it from a limited number of angles, but Malick’s returning art director Jack Fisk built a whole house, inside and out, for Malick to move freely through and capture to film as he pleased.

The surreal image of the lone house rising from the sprawling, flat horizon echoes the Farmer’s own social isolation from an increasingly-modern world, and immediately projects a mythical stature upon Malick’s vision.

Indeed, DAYS OF HEAVEN plays as something of a creation myth, leaning heavily into majestic compositions, monumentally-minded camerawork and even biblical iconography to become a poetic allegory for Man’s remaking of the natural world in our image via the transformative innovations of the Industrial Revolution and the larger anthropological sweep of the twentieth century.

To achieve this mythic tone without falling prey to delusions of grandeur, Malick and company looked to the model of silent films, emphasizing pictures over dialogue and harnessing the power of natural light to expose the 35mm film image.

Much like it did during the actual time and place the filmmakers were depicting, natural sunlight served as the chief lighting source throughout the production of DAYS OF HEAVEN.  With the exception of most interior and nighttime sequences, the filmmakers pushed the use of natural light well beyond their established limits.

The decision to expose most of the film with the intention of gaining an additional stop or two via push processing enabled Malick to capture usable images even after the sun had sunk below the horizon, exposing only off of the ambient glow of twilight during that short window of shooting time fondly known as “magic hour”.

At the risk of adding nothing new or valuable to the endless heaps of writings about DAYS OF HEAVEN’s innovations in magic hour photography, Malick makes extremely effective use of the technique’s dim, golden glow at every possible juncture.

As such, nearly every frame of DAYS OF HEAVEN is bathed in a romantic, sepia-tinged aura that perfectly evokes the film’s aspirations as a new kind of American myth as well as a nostalgic snapshot of an era now lost to the ravages of time.

Malick casts his actors as stark silhouettes against the bright landscape, using a variety of classical formalist camera movements to project a sweeping scope.  Befitting his New Hollywood roots, Malick also incorporates newer techniques like emotionally-immediate handheld photography and rock-steady tracking shots that go where no crane or dolly dare to tread (thanks to the fluid mobility of the Panaglide rig, a contemporaneous competitor to the Steadicam).

While it’s a common refrain in industry circles that Oscar wins are political and don’t always go to the most-deserving party, it’s very difficult to argue that the Academy got it wrong when it bestowed the Oscar for Best Cinematography to Almendros.

Indeed, Almendros and Wexler’s cinematic innovations have only grown more beautiful with age, having gifted the medium with several unforgettable images that continue to shape and influence the art form today.

While DAYS OF HEAVEN’s cinematography is rightfully celebrated, one would be remiss not to mention the profound effect that Billy Weber’s edit or Ennio Morricone’s score had in shaping the presentation of these timeless shots.

After his uncredited services on Malick’s BADLANDS, Weber gets a proper cutting credit on DAYS OF HEAVEN— one that he most definitely earned.  The post-production process for DAYS OF HEAVEN was almost as arduous and complicated as its shoot, stretching on for nearly two years while Malick and Weber labored to make narrative sense of the mountains of unscripted footage the director had acquired in the wake of his decision to toss the script altogether.

Most filmmakers would grow utterly discouraged, if not throw their hands up and quit  altogether, to learn that their footage could not be assembled in any manner resembling the shooting script– but Malick was not most filmmakers.

A complete, radical reworking of Malick’s original vision was needed if disaster was to be avoided, but this moment of realization wasn’t just a creative opportunity; it was an artistic Big Bang that marked the genesis of Malick’s defining aesthetic as a film director.

The influence of the French New Wave is pivotal in this regard, with Malick’s resulting style sharing a strong similarity to the evocative reflections on memory that French director Alain Resnais brought to his groundbreaking works, HIROSHIMA MON AMOUR (1959) and LAST YEAR AT MARIENBAD (1961).

Both films are marked by a ruminative, introspective voiceover that doesn’t as much narrate the plot as it does communicate the story’s interior themes.  Like he did on BADLANDS, Malick turned to the conventions of voiceover as a way to string along a series of disparate images onto a single thread of meaning, giving DAYS OF HEAVEN a narrative form punctuated by ellipses– in other words, fleeting moments instead of fleshed out scenes with a beginning, middle, and end.

DAYS OF HEAVEN follows BADLANDS’ precedent of adopting an oblique perspective for its narration, delivering folksy, off-the-cuff commentary on the larger cosmic plight of the films’ respective leads as they observe from the sidelines.  DAYS OF HEAVEN’s voiceover is delivered by Linda Manz in character as Bill’s rough-around-the-edges kid sister.

Manz’ words feel natural and unplanned because they are precisely that– improvised in the recording studio over the course of untold hours in the hopes of capturing unpolished nuggets of profound observation.

This proved to be the key in breaking Malick’s editorial logjam, enabling him with the confidence to jettison almost all of the film’s recorded dialogue, reducing a substantial number of scenes down to their central idea or purpose with just a single line, an evocative cutaway, and a lingering, atmospheric master shot.

Morricone, the Italian composer best known for his innovative work on Sergio Leone’s spaghetti westerns, cements the elliptic, mythical vibe of DAYS OF HEAVEN with a quietly majestic orchestral score.  The moody, romantic theme seemingly inverts the melody of Camille Saint-Seans’ iconic classical work, “Carnival Of The Animals”, which Malick uses for the film’s opening titles.

Beyond simply giving the film a musical cohesion and uniformity, this approach further echoes the stunning vistas seen throughout the film in a manner that several critics and scholars have described as a mirroring effect; the musical equivalent of the land reflecting the sky above it and vice versa, with the horizon line bisecting Malick’s 1.78:1 frame into two complementary, yet opposing planes.

Beyond a shared mythic tone that often blurs the line between history and fairy tale, DAYS OF HEAVEN builds upon the core thematic conceits that Malick introduced in BADLANDS, thus cementing them as key signatures of his artistic identity.

The director’s fascination with the clash between industrial and agrarian lifestyles is never more immediate than it is in DAYS OF HEAVEN, which initially presents an industrial cityscape as a veritable hell full of fire, brimstone, and the endless, deafening clang of machinery.

Bill and company’s subsequent escape to the pastoral fields of the Texas Panhandle, then, is depicted not as self-imposed exile but as cleansing refuge– a chance to start over and reinvent oneself in an untouched paradise.  Of course, it’s only a matter of time until “the city” finds them, personified by the likes of a traveling circus troupe or the police.

Malick also uses the increasing mechanization of the Farmer’s equipment to reinforce this idea of the impersonal urban forcefully intruding on the intimate pastoral.  As DAYS OF HEAVEN unspools, the farm’s workers labor with only their hands and raw, literal horse power,  and end by manning gigantic, terrifying machines that plunder the landscape.

One of the film’s most memorable images can be found during a dramatic wildfire sequence, with animals scattering for their lives as a lumbering mechanical behemoth emerges unscathed from behind a wall of flame– a fitting visual metaphor for the industrial realm’s wanton disregard for nature that becomes all the more curious considering the man driving the vehicle in that shot is supposedly Malick himself.

In this light, Malick’s frequent use of atmospheric cutaways– usually of serene landscapes or members of the animal kingdom– become so much more than a practical way to hide the chaotic discontinuity of his shooting style; they actively enhance and reinforce his artistic exploration of civilization’s fundamental disharmony with nature.

Despite this profound disconnect between Man and the natural world, Malick nevertheless uses the language and iconography of spirituality and religion to illustrate a shared desire for harmony.

Malick’s lingering cutaways and frequent use of magic hour photography go a long way towards communicating his characters’ longing to be one with their environment, but he also employs rather overt religious symbolism towards this end– be it the devastating, godly wrath of a massive wildfire, a plague of locusts ripped straight out of the pages of the Old Testament, or even the murderous Cain & Abel dynamic shared between Bill and the Farmer as they tangle for the affections of Abby.

Indeed, if one were to try and succinctly sum up the unifying conceit of Malick’s entire filmography to date, the phrase “Paradise Lost” just might do the trick.  His protagonists are exiles from a psychological Garden of Eden, even while they often traverse landscapes that could be described as a literal paradise in and of themselves.

One gets the distinct impression of a thematic loss of innocence when watching Malick’s work–BADLANDS and DAYS OF HEAVEN both adopt an evocative fairy-tale tonality in telling similar stories of lovers on the run.

DAYS OF HEAVEN even echoes BADLANDS’ particular narrative structure, like orienting its perspective to that of a young girl losing her childlike sense of innocence when confronted with mankind’s effortless capability for sin.

There’s even a similar sequence shared between the two films where a makeshift hideaway in the wilderness gets ambushed by the authorities– an image not entirely dissimilar to angry parents stomping into their children’s treehouse to enact some righteous discipline.

Still other ideas and images connect DAYS OF HEAVEN to BADLANDS as companion pieces indicative of Malick’s first wave of film work.  Quaint Victorian architecture can be glimpsed in both films, be it DAYS OF HEAVEN’s iconic mansion all alone amidst the endless fields or the rich man’s house in which BADLANDS’ protagonists take brief refuge during their time on the lam.

Considering that Sissy Spacek’s character in BADLANDS begins her own journey of lost innocence in a small Victorian home, one could make the argument that Malick views this particular type of architecture as emblematic of a simpler, more romantic time that’s been lost to the rapid and rapacious modernization of the twentieth century.

DAYS OF HEAVEN also continues Malick’s inspired use of music as a form of commentary on the story, made manifest in the sequences of laborers playing and dancing to energetic folk music during their off hours.

There’s a strict separation between Morricone’s romantic score and the diegetic music sequences, naturally, but there’s a further division in the latter category: one that mostly falls along a racial line separating country folk music and early blues or ragtime that reinforces Malick’s larger exploration of the clash between agrarian and urban lifestyles.

Despite its troubled production and overlong editorial process, DAYS OF HEAVEN finally debuted in 1978 to a glowing critical reception.  Its run at the Cannes Film Festival proved particularly fruitful, with Malick’s first nomination for the prestigious Palm d’Or and a well-deserved win for Best Director.

Despite a fair share of detractors, many critics were quick to praise its aesthetic beauty and unconventional, yet evocative narrative style, with some even going so far as to call the film an outright masterpiece.  These plaudits did not translate to box office success, however– the film was written off as a commercial failure after barely breaking even.

Despite its inability to perform financially, DAYS OF HEAVEN nevertheless continued to steam ahead off the momentum of its critical praise, benefiting from the art-friendly atmosphere of the industry in the late 70’s.  A slew of Oscar nominations followed to complement Almendros’ aforementioned win, highlighting DAYS OF HEAVEN’s technical achievements in the score, costume design and sound categories.

Time has only bolstered those early reviews proclaiming DAYS OF HEAVEN a bonafide masterpiece, with Malick’s second feature now universally regarded as a capstone of 70’s cinema– itself arguably being the capstone to a century of American cinema in general.

Watching DAYS OF HEAVEN today, it becomes clear that the film marks a pivotal point in Malick’s development as a filmmaker– an end, as well as a beginning.  It’s the end of his early period, to be sure, but it’s also the beginning of a fully-formed artistic voice that would remain consistent through his subsequent pictures over the ensuing decades.

The critical success of DAYS OF HEAVEN positioned Malick for optimal circumstances in the event of a follow-up.  Thanks to the enthusiastic reception of an early cut screened for studio executives, he had been set up at Paramount with a one-of-a-kind deal to do whatever he wanted.

For a while, he would develop an ambitious project about life, death, and the cosmos that he called Q, which eventually made its way to the screen in the form of 2011’s THE TREE OF LIFE as well as 2016’s VOYAGE OF TIME.  In 1978, however, Malick found himself burned out by the process of making DAYS OF HEAVEN in addition to his 1976 divorce from his first wife, Jill Jakes.

Indeed, he was so exhausted, he decided to abandon Q altogether and move to Paris with a girlfriend (5), presumably giving up on a promising film career before it had truly begun.  Malick would fall absent from cinema for the next twenty years, with his extended hiatus and artistic silence slowly cultivating an air of mystery around him that eventually took on the same sort of mythic tone that marked his films.


THE THIN RED LINE (1998)

It seems that no discussion of director Terrence Malick’s life and career can be made without reference to “the absence”— a prolonged period of seeming inactivity that has taken on the same air of mythic folklore that marks his own films.

Every successful filmmaker inevitably experiences a fallow period, whether its due to his or her artistic tastes falling out of fashion, running into difficulty with financing, or even simply just wanting to take a break. These periods don’t usually define their respective creators, but Malick’s twenty-year absence from filmmaking is analyzed and dissected almost as much as the man’s work.

Indeed, this period of Malick’s life could constitute a full book in and of itself. A curious press— a body already prone to exaggeration— played its role by breathlessly inflating the mystery of Malick’s whereabouts, elevating his stature from mere mortal to that of myth.

Stories of his activities varied wildly throughout the years: he was maybe teaching in Texas, or maybe wandering the Middle East to discover his Assyrian roots.  There were even rumors he was dead.

The reality, of course, was not nearly as dramatic… but it was no less fascinating.  After “Q,” his ambitious, enigmatic follow-up to 1978’s DAYS OF HEAVEN, fell apart at Paramount, Malick retreated to Paris and later remarried to a French woman named Michele Marie Morette (who would later serve as the key inspiration for Olga Kurylenko’s character in TO THE WONDER (2012)).

His “absence” was less of an exile or long-term sabbatical than it was an interminably frustrating period of development hell, splitting time between Paris and Los Angeles over the ensuing twenty years.

Indeed, there seems to be no shortage of aborted projects that financially sustained Malick through this time, with many being shelved because of his producers’ impatience with his slow, deliberating pace as well as his tendency to sidetrack himself with impulsive creative fascinations.

Such projects included a script about comedian Jerry Lee Lewis, or one about 1800’s psychoanalysis called THE ENGLISH SPEAKER, and even a dueling Elephant Man project that was canceled when he learned fellow AFI alum David Lynch was about to make a film on the same subject.

There was also an adaptation of Walker Percy’s novel, “The Moviegoer”, which got as far as attaching Julia Roberts and Tim Robbins in 1994 before falling apart— Malick wouldn’t bury the project for good until the mid-2000’s, when he reportedly felt that Hurricane Katrina had all but obliterated the New Orleans depicted in Percy’s book.

Indeed, it seems the only complete work that Malick brought to fruition during this time was a stage adaptation of SANSHO THE BAILIFF, which debuted at the Brooklyn Academy of Music in 1993 to disappointing box office.

While the film world wondered what had happened to the so-called visionary filmmaker behind DAYS OF HEAVEN, the seeds of what would become Malick’s long-awaited follow up were, funnily enough, planted right at the beginning of his absence.

In 1978, producer Robert Michael Geisler approached Malick about making a film adaptation of the David Rabe play, IN THE BOOM BOOM ROOM.  Nothing came of it, of course, but the two remained in contact over the ensuing years.

Ten years later, Geisler brought fellow producer John Roberdeau along with him to a meeting with Malick in Paris, where they pitched the idea of adapting the DM Thomas novel, “The White Hotel”.

Malick declined, but he was equipped with a pitch of his own— an adaptation of James Jones’ psychologically-sprawling war novel, “The Thin Red Line”. Geisler and Roberdeau liked the idea enough to pay him $250,000 to start work on a screenplay.

Malick’s first stab at the project is dated 1989, but it would ultimately take another decade to finally reach the screen. In this time, Geisler and Roberdeau paid the mortgage on Malick’s Parisian apartment while supplying him with an abundance of research material— some of which concerned subjects that must have seemed entirely inconsequential to the task at hand, like Australian reptiles, Navajo code talkers, and Japanese heartbeat drummers.

Indeed, it’s only with the benefit of hindsight that we can see how these seemingly-disparate research materials integrated themselves into the finished product. Nevertheless, Malick’s pace dragged on for several years, his attention split between this project and the continued work on his other script, THE ENGLISH SPEAKER.

By 1995, Malick had burned through two million dollars of his producers’ money, so they pushed him to choose between one project or the other.  In the end, THE THIN RED LINE would win out over THE ENGLISH SPEAKER, spurred to completion by a $100,000 offer made by Mike Medavoy, Malick’s former agent and now CEO of the upstart production company, Phoenix Pictures.

Medavoy’s cash infusion gave Malick the necessary momentum to bring THE THIN RED LINE to cinema screens, but this was by no means the end of the film’s many production woes.  The project was initially set up at Sony Pictures, until they pulled the plug after new studio head John Carley lost his confidence in Malick’s ability to deliver the picture for a budget of $52 million.

Malick and company subsequently found a new home at Fox 2000, when they agreed to put up a majority of the financing if Malick could secure five stars from a list of ten interested actors. This caveat was, of course, no problem— upon hearing the whispers of Malick’s long-awaited return to filmmaking, nearly every male actor in the industry was banging down the doors.

With the project financed and cast, Malick was all set to commence production on only his third feature film in over two decades, except for one last burst of admittedly-avoidable drama before cameras started rolling.

After developing THE THIN RED LINE with producers Geisler and Roberdeau for nearly ten years, Malick abruptly engineered a falling-out; when informing them that they would be banned from the set entirely, he used the reasoning that George Stevens Jr would be serving as the film’s producer on location, and Fox was allegedly allowing the ban in retribution for Geisler and Roberdeau denying Stevens an above-the-line credit.  Malick failed to mention, however, that he also had a clause secretly added to his contract in 1996 barring the two men from participating during the shoot.

It’s difficult to excuse Malick’s actions here, even if the producer/director relationship is often fraught with perilous differences in opinion. Especially within the realm of studio filmmaking, a fragile harmony must be struck between the voices of art and commerce.

If anything, Malick’s unexpected power grab speaks to the shamelessly-indulgent artistic sensibilities he’d cultivated during his long hiatus, as well as his blossoming disregard for the conventions of contemporary filmmaking. As a result, THE THIN RED LINE becomes a decidedly singular expression from a man intent on blowing up the conventions of the war genre entirely.

Indeed, the finished product asserts Malick’s long-awaited return as one man’s all-consuming crusade to redefine the visual language of cinema itself, subjecting himself to a high-stakes gambit to reach a deeper emotional truth about our shared human experience.

THE THIN RED LINE details the Battle of Guadalcanal in 1942, a key event in World War II that gave American forces their first toehold in the Pacific as they advanced against the Japanese.  Malick’s approach, like the source novel, adopts the multiple perspectives of the soldiers of C Company— a conceit that weaves a rich, sprawling tapestry about the emotional cost of warfare while making full use of the director’s philosophical fascinations.

The story follows C Company’s initial beach landing and their bitter fight to take Mount Austen, following through to their hollow victory over the Japanese as they venture deeper into the island’s lush jungles. The cast is a literal Who’s Who of major Hollywood stars and character actors during the late 90’s— Thomas Jane, Nick Stahl, Jared Leto, Tim Blake Nelson, Woody Harrelson, John C. Reilly, and John Cusack, amongst many others.

In an inspired move, Malick limits the presence of high-profile talent like John Travolta and George Clooney to mere cameos, evoking the prestigious celebrity status that officers frequently enjoy amongst the rank and file.

Even with a three hour runtime, Malick doesn’t have enough space on his canvas to lavish attention on all of the members of his sprawling cast, so certain players receive the lion’s share of screentime— in the process, becoming our emotional anchors for the narrative at hand.

If THE THIN RED LINE possesses anything in the way of a central character, it’s Jim Caviezel’s Private Witt, a soulfully observant man who is introduced to us as a man who deserted his company to go live with the island’s indigenous population.

The experience gives him an appreciation for mankind’s inherent purity; a state of being seemingly lost to the modern industrial world. This enlightened perspective stays with Witt throughout the film, even as he’s discovered and pulled back into battle.

He becomes almost omniscient in his interior musings, rendered in the hushed, regionally-inflected voiceover that has become Malick’s signature. In a way, Malick paints Witt not as a mortal man, but as a Creator walking with amazement amongst his creations; a figure of mercy who despairs over his children’s inclinations towards self-destruction.

Sean Penn, in the first of two collaborations with Malick to date, serves a similar purpose as First Sergeant Welsh: a stern disciplinarian who nonetheless shows a deep compassion towards his men in both his actions and his own interior monologue.

Nick Nolte, as Lt. Colonel Tall, illustrates the interior state of an opposing ideology. He spends the film angry as all hell, barking orders to his men like a furious dog. He favors a blunt, brute-force approach to warfare that cares little for the human cost as long as the objective is achieved, all while feigning intellectual sophistication with invocations of his West Point background, where he read Homer’s “The Odyssey” in its original Greek.

Nolte’s voiceover reveals an extremely frustrated and disgruntled career officer, forced to carry out the demeaning commands of his superiors even as he endeavors to join their ranks. Blind obedience and self-sacrifice is the only way to advance, which is why he comes into such explosive conflict with Elias Koteas’ Captain Staros, a conflicted and compassionate underling who defies Nolte’s character by refusing to send his men into a veritable meat grinder with very little tactical benefit.

Ben Chaplin and Dash Mihok are blessed with ruminative voiceover moments of their own, becoming key figureheads of Malick’s larger vision despite their relative inconsequence. Mihok’s internal monologue displays his character’s growth from a smug, relaxed private to a stunned combat veteran horrified by what he’s seen, while Chaplin’s subdued thoughts linger on the lover he left back home— played by Miranda Otto in fleeting flashbacks, the only female figure in the film that’s not also a member of the island’s indigenous population.

Adrien Brody’s performance as Corporal Fife is made notable by its absence: one of the first casualties of Malick’s ruthless tendency to cut entire members of his cast out during the editing process, Brody signed on to THE THIN RED LINE believing his character was going to be a central one;  after all, that’s what it said, right there in the script.

We know by now that Malick’s scripts are by no means an even-remotely accurate blueprint of what the finished product will become, but Brody did not have the benefit of hindsight when he shot his performance.  It wasn’t until he saw the finished film at the premiere that he learned his assumingly-meaty role had been savagely cut down to the barest sketch of a character— almost every line of dialogue had been excised, and he was left only with the silent terror that his eyes could visually convey.

In a funny way, Brody actually was one of the lucky ones; at least he had made it into the finished product. The same could not be said for other high-profile actors like Bill Pullman, Lukas Haas, or Mickey Rourke, who all had made the long journey to base camp in the Solomon Islands and Queensland, Australia only for their scenes to be axed entirely.

Malick’s scissor-happiness extends to the voiceover aspect of the picture: actor Billy Bob Thornton reportedly recorded hours of monologue that never made it into the finished film. This haphazard, seemingly-wasteful approach can’t exactly be recommended for aspiring filmmakers to emulate, but it nonetheless works for Malick as as key component of his artistic process.

He’s not so much a “storyteller” as he is a “story-seeker”, gathering as much raw material as humanly possible and whittling it down to a shape that only reveals itself towards the end of the process. Case in point: THE THIN RED LINE was shot over 100 days, generating 1 million feet of film.  There’s simply no way to make that omelette without breaking an obscene number of eggs.  It speaks to Malick’s mythic stature amidst the industry that many actors stayed on for those 100 days — even after they had finished all of their scenes — just so they could sit and observe the mysterious filmmaker at work.

THE THIN RED LINE marks the emergence of Malick’s latter-day visual style, which combines his innate sensitivity to the beauty of the natural world with compositions and movement that evokes the restlessness of his characters’ interior conflict.

A cursory glance at Malick’s filmography reveals a director who disdains shooting on a soundstage or under the harsh glare of specialized film lighting, preferring to embed himself and his crew entirely on location. With THE THIN RED LINE, Malick scouted the actual battlefields in Guadalcanal, but the remote terrain presented severe logistical challenges for the shoot, and malaria concerns limited filming to daytime hours only.

As such, the Solomon Islands and Queensland, Australia stand in for Guadalcanal, providing Malick and company with a wide variety of lush jungle vistas. The Guadalcanal of THE THIN RED LINE is a primordial paradise; a veritable Garden Of Eden in which its indigenous inhabitants never ate from the Tree Of Knowledge and thus live totally free of afflictions such as war, disease, and sin.

Working for the first — and to date, only — time with cinematographer John Toll, Malick exposes the 2.35:1 35mm frame with an abundance of natural light in a variety of color temperatures. Much to his cast and crew’s consternation, Malick would sometimes shoot the same scene in three different lighting scenarios: broad daylight, diffuse overcast light, and the golden glow of magic hour.

This approach didn’t mean he could not decide how his scene should look, but rather, his particular creative process demanded a scene’s look be varied enough so he could place it anywhere he wished in the edit without breaking continuity.

It’s hard to imagine any other filmmaker getting away with this, but such was the wide creative berth and logistical trust accorded to Malick by his collaborators.  THE THIN RED LINE was made and released at the same time as a competing World War 2 film, Steven Spielberg’s SAVING PRIVATE RYAN.

The two works, even to this day, are locked into something of an of eternal competition, their shared subject matter inviting constant comparisons that seek to identify the “better” film.  Such debates tend to miss the point, as their differences extend far beyond which theater of the war their respective stories take place in.

SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is a film about the horrors of war and the extraordinary courage of the men who fight it, whereas THE THIN RED LINE uses the prism of war as a psychological device, enabling an intense meditation on the damage that armed conflict does to a man’s soul while simultaneously expressing the idea that combat is simply a part of the natural order of civilization— not unlike a cleansing wildfire making room for an ecosphere to begin anew.

This naturally calls for an abstract, introspective approach that stands in stark contrast to SAVING PRIVATE RYAN’s visceral grit and chaotic handheld photography.  THE THIN RED LINE maintains the same air of epic myth as DAYS OF HEAVEN, embracing formal compositions and camerawork that have an abstractifying effect on the action.

Evidenced in the many shots of the sun streaming through the dense jungle foliage, a kind of elemental spirituality reigns over the film’s visual approach: seemingly every shot is composed so as to emphasize one of the four elements: fire, water, earth, and wind.

Think to some of the film’s most enduring images: the breeze whistling through tall grass, the island’s indigenous population happily swimming underwater, a chaotic series of explosions back at base, and the dead Japanese soldier’s face peeking up from beneath the dirt floor.

Indeed, Malick’s depiction of the Japanese forces — the so-called “enemy” — is just as compelling and humanely oriented as his treatment of the Americans. At first they aren’t seen at all, belching out a fusillade of bullets from their vantage point up on the hill.

They are, in effect, an unseen force; lethal in nature.  As we push forward with the American perspective, we get closer and closer to the Japanese. Shapes turn to silhouettes, then to recognizable human features. What was once a seemingly supernatural, unstoppable force is revealed to be fallible; fragile; vulnerable.

In other words: human. Malick’s camerawork echoes this conceit, using propulsive tracking shots in concert with majestic crane and dolly moves that underscore his filmmaking as an act of searching or questioning.

While THE THIN RED LINE had its fair share of shooting troubles, the overall production wasn’t nearly as troubled as either DAYS OF HEAVEN or BADLANDS before it.  It helped that Malick’s artistic approach wasn’t constantly questioned by his own crew, thanks to the prior success of those films as well as the air of mysterious genius that enshrouded his twenty-year exile from filmmaking.

He also enjoyed the return of trusted longtime collaborators, like production designer Jack Fisk and editor Billy Weber, who came aboard seven months into a long post-production process to oversee fellow editors Saar Klein and Leslie Jones.

Hans Zimmer’s original score has since become rather iconic, with tracks like “Journey To The Line” penetrating pop culture to a degree that film scores usually do not, and also becoming something of a go-to piece for other filmmakers’ temp tracks.

The stately orchestra reinforces the sweeping scope of Malick’s vision with a propulsive majesty, underscored by the subtle sounds of wind instruments that evoke his elemental approach to the visuals as well as a ticking clock that anticipates the character of Zimmer’s contemporary scores for fellow director Christopher Nolan.

Zimmer reportedly composed over four hours of music for THE THIN RED LINE, but much like Malick’s seemingly-merciless excision of his actors in the edit, little of the maestro’s score was actually used.  In the end, Malick supplements Zimmer’s score with a collection of source tracks from classical composers like John Powell and Gabriel Faure, in addition to religious hymns sung by a Melanesian choir.

He also makes particularly pointed use of Charles Ives’ “The Unanswered Question”, musically echoing his characters’ internal examinations and trauma. THE THIN RED LINE sees the full extent of Malick’s modern-day aesthetic emerge for the first time— almost as if he had spent his twenty-year absence honing it to personal perfection.

The mythic posturing that formed the thematic bedrock of BADLANDS and DAYS OF HEAVEN remains, but it’s immediately evident that Malick no longer considers himself beholden to entrenched cinematic conventions like self-contained sequences of story with a beginning, middle, and end.

Instead, we are treated to lyrical, fleeting moments that harken back to the ideological purity of Sergei Eisenstein’s pioneering theories on Soviet montage, whereby it’s in the manner in which shots are strung together that gives a scene meaning rather than the images themselves.

It’s easy for critics to dismiss this approach as superficial, or pretentious —made empty by the absence of action or plot progression — but such takes tend to betray a lack of attention or understanding at best, or a willing close-mindedness at worst.

Indeed, how one feels about Malick’s work as a whole often depends on how one feels about cinema as a whole: whether its functions as art or as commerce.  THE THIN RED LINE posits that cinema can be both, leveraging its Hollywood-sized budget and war-epic framework to convey intimate, abstract ideas about man’s place in the natural cycle of life, death, and rebirth.

The creation that surrounds the film’s narrative — lush jungle, colorful wildlife, the eloquent cadence of the soldier’s innermost consciousness and self-awareness — is all-encompassing. No individual part is more important than the other.  Man, and the natural environment that surrounds him, is simply part of one larger and interconnected cosmic soul.

Malick’s evocative cutaways illustrate this conceit, painting a larger portrait of the devastation that warfare brings to this soul with no more complex an image as a wounded bird trying to stand on its feet in the trampled brush, or blood splattering violently across long stalks of grass.

The same strain of soulful spirituality that marked BADLANDS and DAYS OF HEAVEN brings an added resonance to THE THIN RED LINE’s own sense of natural interconnectedness.  Malick blends core ideas from the spiritual traditions of both Eastern and Western faith systems, invoking a higher power through the lush paradise of Guadalcanal and the gentle breeze constantly blowing through its dense foliage, or via images of American and Japanese soldiers alike fervently praying to their creators as they prepare for combat or lay dying in the battlefield.

Like BADLANDS before it, Malick draws from the biblical story of the Garden of Eden as a cultural waypoint, giving his audience something to anchor themselves to as he plunges headlong into deep explorations of abstract ideas like the clash between agrarian and industrial societies, the loss of our collective innocence via the prism of suffering & death, the careless plundering and wanton destruction of our natural environment, and even original sin.

Malick finds manners both religious and secular to convey these ideas, especially in lines of voiceover monologue like: “what seed, what root did evil grow from?”. Indeed, the bulk of THE THIN RED LINE’s hushed voiceovers grapple with mankind’s innate capacity for cruelty towards others, and how warfare has seeped like a poison into the purity of this one cosmic soul— rotting it from within.

The act of war, as implied by Malick’s approach here, quite literally invites a tangible hell on Earth, ransacking the Garden of Eden that has been made for us; forcing us out into an emotional wilderness.

THE THIN RED LINE’s existential unmooring stands in stark contrast to SAVING PRIVATE RYAN’s more-accessible message of warfare’s immediate pain and terror, which is understandably why the latter film had a higher profile at the box office and during awards season.

Simply put, THE THIN RED LINE is decidedly uncommercial: it’s a long, incredibly dense masterwork that applies abstract philosophical thought to the framework of the war genre.  That’s not to say the film wasn’t a success— indeed, Malick’s big return to filmmaking after twenty years was hailed as a major achievement and one of the year’s best films.

Generally positive reviews and a Golden Bear award from Berlin fueled a $98 million gross at the box office, followed by a sweep of Oscar nominations including Best Picture, Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Cinematography, Best Sound, Best Editing, Best Score, and Malick’s first nomination for Directing.

Malick’s reclusive nature made for a peculiar show at the Oscars ceremony— when his name was announced in the Directing category, the telecast showed only a picture of a chair with his name on it. While it ultimately went home empty-handed, THE THIN RED LINE nevertheless re-established Malick at the forefront of American cinema after two decades of silence.

The mysterious, reclusive filmmaker was officially back in action— armed with a stunning meditation on the inhumanity and emotional devastation of war that continues to resonate as a modern classic.


THE NEW WORLD (2005)

There are many films I regret not seeing in a theater.  Sure, watching movies at home offers the ability to avoid those annoying crowds and plunking down serious cash for two hours you may very well want back.

It now even offers a comparable technical experience thanks to advancements in 4K televisions and their companion UHD disc players. Still, even the sweetest home theater setup pales in comparison to the communal experience of the theater.

Hundreds of films, if not thousands, have been released over the course of my lifetime, and as someone who counts the experience of going to the movie theater as one of his earliest memories, I’ve made every effort to journey to cinema screens when duty demands it.

Even then, far too many films have slipped through the cracks. There is one film, in particular, that I most regret not having seen in its intended venue: director Terrence Malick’s 2005 opus, THE NEW WORLD— the trailer to which caused me to inexplicably turn my young, callow and unsophisticated nose up at the prospect of ever going to see it.

The trailer was everywhere that summer, but for whatever reason, the images didn’t speak to me in an appealing way. I had yet to discover Malick’s work as a whole, so I suppose I thought it another overstuffed period epic trying to ape TITANIC’s success nearly a decade on.  What a stupid, ignorant fool I was.  Because of this mistaken impression, I missed out on the opportunity to see what would one day become my favorite film from my favorite director.

Now, every time I watch THE NEW WORLD, I try to imagine how its majestic images would feel being twenty or thirty feet tall, washing over me in a cascading wave of sound and image that envelops my entire field of view… and I feel the sting of heartache that one might feel after The Rapture when he realizes he’s been left behind.  I fully realize the ridiculousness of the statement I just made, but… damn it, that’s how it feels.

Having built his cinematic career on the foundation of American myth, Malick’s desire to tackle a film about its origins seemed a natural move.  Indeed, the director had long harbored a desire to realize his vision of the founding of the Jamestown settlement in Virginia and its accompanying legend of Pocahontas and Captain James Smith.

His first draft of the screenplay for THE NEW WORLD would date back to the late 1970’s, shortly after the completion of his second feature, DAYS OF HEAVEN (1978).  He no doubt tinkered away at the idea during his ensuing twenty-year sabbatical from the industry, but it laid otherwise dormant until his re-emergence with THE THIN RED LINE in 1998.

Disney had released their own take on the Pocahontas story three years earlier, taking some of the wind out of Malick’s sails even as he expressed his fondness for the now-classic animated feature.

After the success of THE THIN RED LINE, Malick turned his attentions to a project about Che Guevara’s failed revolution in Bolivia — a story that would later be realized in 2008 by director Steven Soderbergh with the second half of his two-part epic, CHE.

When Malick’s Che project ultimately failed to find financing, leaving his development slate relatively wide open, his longtime editing partner Billy Weber reminded him of his old project on the Jamestown settlement.  Ever since reading the original draft from the 1970’s, Weber had repeatedly expressed his desire to see Malick tackle THE NEW WORLD— and this time, Malick agreed.

Malick’s vision of the founding of the Jamestown settlement in Virginia during the early 1600’s blends factual accounts with apocryphal myth to become a towering meditation on both the destructive, imperial nature of advanced civilizations as well as love’s ability to transcend linguistic and societal barriers.

There is actually no factual account that Captain John Smith and the Algonquian princess Pocahontas cultivated a romantic relationship — indeed, their significant age difference alone would’ve made such a prospect unlikely. Nevertheless, the legend endures, and it’s upon this legend that Malick bases the foundation for his staging of America’s complicated and bloody origins.

The settlers of Jamestown sailed from England to the New World looking not just for a passage or trade route to the Indies, but also for a fresh start. However, they brought with them the centuries of xenophobia, distrust, and craven greed that marked their imperial homeland.

They came not as settlers, but as conquerors, drunk on rumors of the untold riches that awaited them across the sea.  Among the ranks of these would-be conquerors, Colin Farrell’s Captain John Smith emerges as an unlikely hero— a grungy, bohemian mercenary who arrived on these shores in shackles as a result of an attempted mutiny against his commander, Captain Newport (played by Christopher Plummer with his characteristic air of dignified prestige).

Farrell benefits from the real-life Smith’s extensive accounts of his travels, having pored through all seven of the Captain’s books to arrive at an understanding of a conflicted man at odds with his own people and utterly transformed by his encounters with Virginia’s native population.

When he’s ambushed and captured by members of a local tribe headed by August Schellenberg’s Chief Powhatan, he finds himself facing imminent execution— that is, until Powhatan’s teenager daughter, Pocahontas, throws herself on his captive and appeals to her father’s begrudging compassion.

As depicted by newcomer Q’orianka Kilcher in a revelatory performance, Pocahontas is a lively free spirit, inspiring Smith to appreciate the wonder of the natural world that surrounds him. What begins as an effort to teach each other their respective languages for trading purposes blossoms into a full-throated romance for the ages— albeit one that threatens to tear the early Jamestown settlement apart at the seams.

As tensions between the settlers and the natives spill out into open conflict, these star-crossed lovers are forced to choose between their people or each other, pulled apart by the increasingly overwhelming forces that shaped America’s beginnings.

As the filmmakers themselves are quick to point out, THE NEW WORLD’s title works on two levels— there’s the New World the settlers experience in Virginia, and then there’s the New World experienced by Pocahontas when she sails to England for an audience with the King and Queen, played by seasoned character actor Jonathan Pryce and Malick’s own wife, Alexandra.

Pocahontas finds herself a stranger in a strange land, its cobblestone streets and manicured topiaries standing in stark contrast to the untamed wilderness of her home. Surrounded by the trappings of Anglo-Saxon civilization, she becomes an exotic specimen, comforted only by her husband’s loyalty and a watchful guardian from her tribe back home, played by Wes Studi.

In the first of several performances for Malick, Christian Bale assumes the guise of Pocahontas’ husband, John Rolfe: a former widower and tobacco farmer who takes the exiled Pocahontas into his homestead when news arrives that John Smith has perished at sea.

Bale is no stranger to the Pocahontas legend, having played the role of “Thomas” in Disney’s animated version prior, but here he serves as an emotional rock for the Algonquian princess.  His quiet compassion knows no bounds, especially when John Smith re-emerges alive and well, and Pocahontas must make the last in a series of extremely difficult decisions.

THE NEW WORLD’s expansive canvas affords ample room for key supporting players to emerge, like David Thewlis’ treacherous usurper, or Ben Mendolsohn’s supportive settler.  Some familiar faces from THE THIN RED LINE also join the fray in minor roles, like Ben Chaplin and John Savage, while still others can technically claim credit as a cast member without making any appearance at all— victims to Malick’s merciless approach to editing that compensates for his free-form shooting style.

It’s easy to criticize said shooting style on its face— after all, filmmaking as a commercial medium lends itself to nothing less than a disciplined, organized approach.  It’s not so easy to maintain that criticism when one sees the images that result: a cascading flow of imagery that contains some of the most evocative and beautiful frames ever captured to celluloid.

Malick reportedly exposed over a million feet of 35mm film during the production of THE NEW WORLD, working for the first time with Emmanuel “Chivo” Lubezki— the man who has since gone on to become arguably his most vital collaborator beyond returning production designer Jack Fisk and recurring producer Sarah Green.

THE NEW WORLD also marks Green and Malick’s first collaboration together, with Green’s gift for anticipating her director’s unpredictable, ever-changing needs creating an environment primed for creativity.  Malick and Lubezki take full advantage of this supportive environment, quickly accumulating a staggering amount of achingly beautiful CinemaScope footage that would handily earn Lubezki an Oscar nomination come awards season.

THE NEW WORLD’s cinematography is also notable for its use of the 65mm gauge for select shots, becoming the first feature in nine years to shoot on the format for narrative purposes unrelated to visual effects work.

Having found his groove with a wandering, instinctual shooting style on THE THIN RED LINE, Malick pushes this approach even further to better capture the elegant chaos of the natural world, caring not a whit for pesky concepts like continuity or proper coverage.

Virginia’s plentiful sunlight aids in this pursuit, generating a textured, naturalistic feel that eschews any pretense of Hollywood glamor or polish. Malick and Lubezki repeatedly harness the beauty of magic hour, which casts lingering shots of lush woods and wetlands in a dim, rosy glow that lends itself well to the film’s pursuit of a mythic, epic aura.

Like THE THIN RED LINE and other subsequent works, Malick’s camera is characterized by a restless, searching spirit— a product of a fleet-footed shooting style that favors handheld and Steadicam setups. The overall effect is that of an eye-level account of history actively unfolding, with all the realism and visceral immediacy that implies.

THE NEW WORLD also retains THE THIN RED LINE’s use of elemental imagery, with Malick evoking the vibrancy of his surrounding natural environment by anchoring his compositions to the recurring visual motifs of earth, wind, water, and fire.

This conceit becomes increasingly resonant as the film progresses and we witness the Jamestown settlers continually diminish Virginia’s untamed wilds in their pursuit of civilization-building, ultimately making for a stunning contrast in the world that Pocahontas encounters when she sails across the Atlantic: a world of dirty cobblestone streets, soaring feats of baroque architecture, and manicured gardens with trees sheared into unnatural geometric shapes.

These visual comparisons strike at the core of THE NEW WORLD’s narrative conflict— the clash between those who endeavor to live in harmony with the world that sustains them, and those who conquer and manipulate that world towards increasingly unnatural ends.

THE NEW WORLD benefits from Malick’s continued partnership with longtime production designer Jack Fisk, who commits himself absolutely to the utmost historical authenticity.  They had already achieved an authentic atmosphere by finding locations that were no more than ten miles away from the actual Jamestown settlement, but Fisk and his team went even further, rebuilding the fort with the same relatively primitive methods with which it had been constructed over four hundred years ago.

The Algonquin language, having long been considered a dead tongue, was fully resurrected so as to make the Powhatan tribe’s dialogue as accurate as possible — with the added benefit of making the language available for their descendants today and for generations to come.

Reason might expect only certain words and phrases to be recreated, according to what dialogue is mandated in the script.  However, this being a latter-day Malick project, his team knew that it was only a matter of time until he threw out the script entirely in favor of informed improvisation— necessitating an entire language to be recreated and pulled from as the situation demanded.

Malick’s almost-casual disregard for his own script places an inordinate amount of responsibility on the shoulders of his editors, who must make sense of the mountains of film shot with no clear idea how it would be integrated into the final product, if it all.

Thankfully, THE NEW WORLD benefits from a crack team of editors including the likes of Hank Corbin and Saar Klein, who came aboard to expand upon the prior efforts of Richard Chew and Mark Yoshikawa.

While he served only as an associate producer on THE NEW WORLD, longtime Malick editor Billy Weber no doubt wielded a sizable influence on the post-production team, helping them make sense of Malick’s unique thought process and to “unlearn” what they had learned on other, more-conventional jobs.

The result is an impressionistic experience that builds upon the narrative foundations Malick laid with THE THIN RED LINE, telling his story with elliptical jump-cuts and lyrical vignettes; an ever-flowing river of images strung together and given meaning by meditative voiceovers.

Even in the thick of a chaotic battle, THE NEW WORLD’s characters express their inner monologues in Malick’s characteristic hushed timbre, lamenting the unfolding bloodshed as the loss of the dream upon which Jamestown — and America — was founded.

To take a job — any job — on a Malick production is to subsume one’s own ego or die trying; Plummer publicly expressed his desire to never work with Malick again after learning that his performance had been chopped to bits in the final edit.

Malick is unafraid of bruising the egos of his collaborators in pursuit of his vision, and those who excel in the face of challenge — actors like Christian Bale, Sean Penn, Cate Blanchett, and Natalie Portman as well as craftspeople like Sarah Green, Jack Fisk, and Emmanuel Lubezki — are the ones who keep coming back to the director’s fold time and time again.

The venerated film composer, James Horner, would not join the ranks of Malick’s repeat collaborators after his stint on THE NEW WORLD — an experience that earned Malick the late maestro’s bitter enmity.

“I’ve never felt more letdown by a filmmaker in my life”, Horner exclaimed in an interview shortly afterwards, expressing his sincere frustration with Malick’s impulsive creative process and the manner in which his score was used…. or wasn’t used, as is the case with the bulk of THE NEW WORLD’s musical landscape.

Horner’s score here is very characteristic of his unique aesthetic — a stately blend of regal horns and majestic orchestration that immediately invites comparisons to his landmark scores for Mel Gibson’s BRAVEHEART (1995) and James Cameron’s TITANIC (1997).

Indeed, Horner’s approach underscores his initial impression that THE NEW WORLD would replicate the alchemy of sweeping romance and epic historical drama that made TITANIC such a cultural phenomenon; he even wrote an original song sung by Hayley Westenra called “Listen To Wind”, in a somewhat-transparent bid to succeed Celine Dion’s “My Heart Will Go On”.

Malick, however, had no interest in making the next TITANIC, and thus retains only the most relevant and resonant qualities of Horner’s score while falling back on an inspired selection of sourced classical works to fill in the gaps.

Well-chosen cues like Wagner’s “Vorspiel to Das Rheingold” and Mozart’s “Piano Concerto No. 3” lend THE NEW WORLD an aura of mythic timelessness and a rapturous sense of destiny while displaying Malick’s deep appreciation for the classical genre.

In choosing such operatic cues, Malick certainly runs the risk of inflating his narrative with the airs of pompous self-importance, but his unconventional approach to montage as well as his focus on the purity of the image delicately balances his musical palette’s operatic energy while further reinforcing the film’s contrasting of Virginia’s untamed wilds with the supposed civility of England’s contemporaneous society.

Malick’s artistic proclivities uniquely suit him to THE NEW WORLD’s storyline — indeed, it’s hard to think of a more harmonious match between artist and subject matter.  The film’s narrative turns are anchored to the core conceits of Malick’s artistic profile: the radiance of the natural world, spirituality, the loss of innocence, the bitter conflict between agrarian and industrial societies, and the pursuit of a more-perfect cinematic realization of his characters’ interior lives.

Like THE THIN RED LINE before it, THE NEW WORLD is predicated upon the idea of conquest— specifically, that of an untouched paradise by a more-advanced civilization.  “Conquest” is the prism through which all other ideas flow, evoking comparisons to the biblical story of Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden, whereby the Garden is sullied by the introduction of sin, murder, and money— that evergreen root of all evil.

After initial efforts to live in harmony with the indigenous population fail, the English resort to bloodshed and brute force to colonize Jamestown, violently remaking the land in their image. THE NEW WORLD’s elegiac tone stems from the loss of innocence incurred by this conquest— a stain tarnishing the purity of America’s baptismal gown.

Of course, that’s assuming a historical perspective that’s decidedly Anglo-Saxon, disregarding the fact that the native population had already been there for centuries, building a thriving civilization all their own.  Malick treats these two societies — agrarian and industrial — as simply incompatible, their principles and values eternally at odds with one another.

Innocence against corruption; purity against filth; raw exploitation against sustainable ecosystems.  In this manner, the centerpiece battle sequence that finds Powhatan’s tribe laying siege to Jamestown becomes so much more than a cinematic recreation of a key skirmish in Virginian history— it assumes the weight of apocalyptic stakes, deciding nothing less than the fate of the Americas themselves.

This conflict is also embodied in the contrast between each side’s spiritual beliefs. There’s the earthiness of the Algonquian belief system — an all-encompassing divinity in the world around them — and the celestial loftiness of the English’s Christian faith.

Shots of characters enraptured by the sun-dappled radiance of the natural world are framed similarly to shots of towering cathedrals and stain-glass windows, suggesting the common spiritual thread between the two factions; a universal language that allows John Smith and Pocahontas to communicate with each other, despite the worlds of difference between them.

This free-flowing, at-times agnostic spirituality has increasingly come to define Malick’s later work, but THE NEW WORLD arguably serves as the prime example of this particular conceit.  It is here that Malick’s recurring references to nature as “Mother” first emerge, with Pocahontas using the term in hushed, prayer-like voiceovers to invoke the creation that surrounds her.

Her ephemeral, abstract monologues contrast with Captain Smith’s matter-of-fact narration, which itself was derived from Smiths’ many writings about his travels. Both monologues profess a profound awe towards this untouched paradise; a desire to become one with it rather than tame it.

This is the root of their connection, which renders their surface differences as minor obstacles easily overcome by simply listening to each other. Malick weaves these interior sentiments together into a coursing river of thought and speech, sometimes even overlapping the voiceover with the diegetic dialogue to create an immersive audio mosaic that’s not supposed to be necessarily listened to, but rather absorbed on a penetrating, subconscious level.

There’s little doubt that THE NEW WORLD stands as a staggering achievement by any filmmaker’s standards, but for Malick in particular, the film would struggle through several rounds of releases before achieving its latter-day status as a milestone work in his canon.

THE NEW WORLD would see the release of no less than three different cuts, each attaining their own lyrical pace and atmosphere while essentially telling the same story.  Indeed, to watch the three cuts together in quick succession is to gain an appreciation for the subtle complexities of montage— more specifically, the manner in which the shortening or lengthening of shots can generate a cumulative impression or energy that’s entirely different to an alternate timing of the same sequence.

Perhaps the least-seen version of the film (until its inclusion on the Criterion Collection’s 2016 home video release), The First Cut is just that— the first version screened for audiences. Running 150 minutes, The First Cut screened at the world premiere despite the fact that Malick felt the film was far from finished.

Indeed, his editors would later recount sitting in the audience that night, actively taking notes on what they could trim.  Further compelled by New Line Cinema’s mandate to cut the runtime down by at least fifteen minutes, Malick and his team delivered THE NEW WORLD to theaters in a version now known as The Theatrical Cut, keeping the same free-breathing, elliptical pace of The First Cut while condensing the length down to 135 minutes.

In retrospect, it seems that Malick’s sprawling, atmospheric vision did not benefit from quickening its pace; many contemporaneous reviews, while mostly positive, expressed an opinion that the narrative was too meandering, or too unfocused.

The late Roger Ebert, however, had nothing but high praise— his four-star review echoed the sentiments of other prominent critics like Mick LaSalle of the San Francisco Chronicle, joining a growing chorus that praised the film as an outright masterpiece.

Unfortunately, mass audiences more-attuned to the straightforward conventions of mainstream cinema didn’t share this sentiment. In the eyes of the industry and its lofty financial expectations, THE NEW WORLD’s $30 million take on opening weekend was a major disappointment… despite being enough to recoup the production cost.

The third version of the film, known as The Extended Cut, was first distributed via New Line’s special edition re-issue shortly after its initial home video release.  Running a staggering 172 minutes, The Extended Cut differs quite substantially from the two versions before it.

The longer runtime, longer even than The First Cut, creates much more of an experiential atmosphere, lingering on its sublime compositions while fleshing out its protagonists’ interior thoughts in deeper detail.  A distinct literary influence courses through The Extended Cut, beginning with a direct pull quote from Smith’s journals and continuing on with chapter-like intertitles that break up the ensuing action into distinct blocks of story.

In the years since, Malick’s Extended Cut has emerged as the definitive version of THE NEW WORLD, but each of the other two cuts remain equally valid expressions of his immersive vision.

The work as a whole, even when compared against its multiple variants, has endured over the past decade, enshrining itself in our collective cultural memory as a new classic of American historical cinema — one that brings renewed vigor, immediacy, and — most importantly — humanity to a turbulent period long since relegated to stately oil paintings on canvas.

Four features and thirty years into his celebrated career, Malick had finally hit his stride, finding artistic reinvigoration through his development of a convention-shattering aesthetic and applying it to two sweeping historical epics in order to uncover the underlying humanity that drives them.

Something had been unlocked inside the enigmatic filmmaker, kickstarting an accelerated creative momentum that would thrust him headlong into hist most prolific and radical phase yet.


THE TREE OF LIFE (2011)

Before he embarked on his twenty year hiatus from filmmaking, director Terrence Malick was laboring over the development of an ambitious passion project he had enigmatically dubbed “Q”.

The success of 1978’s DAYS OF HEAVEN had set him up to develop anything he wanted, and said effort would take the form of a sprawling meditation on life, death, and rebirth— albeit transposed against the infinite timescale of the cosmos.

The project famously collapsed shortly thereafter, in the wake of Malick’s self-imposed exile from Hollywood, but vestiges of the idea nevertheless continued to percolate in the director’s mind throughout the ensuing decades.

His return with 1998’s THE THIN RED LINE, as well as his subsequent 2005 effort THE NEW WORLD re-established Malick’s prominence in the industry’s prestige circles, and with it a renewed interest in the prospects of his unmade projects.

While in the early stages of his development of a failed project on Che Guevara with the production company River Road, Malick pitched his latest musings on the Q project to producer Bill Pohlad.  Pohlad reportedly expressed his wariness about Malick’s “crazy” idea, but as the project took further shape he found himself so enamored with it that he would later provide the financing.

The production of THE NEW WORLD would give the long-gestating project some added momentum by establishing a strong creative collaboration between Malick and producer Sarah Green, who has since proven instrumental in ramping up the pace of the director’s finished output.

Malick had also been discussing the idea with other producers like Grant Hill, and Plan B Entertainment’s Dede Gardner and Brad Pitt, lamenting the difficulties he had faced in getting the film made over the decades.

Finally, after nearly thirty years of troubled development, Q’s imminent production was announced to the world in 2005 as THE TREE OF LIFE.  Naturally, the trade announcement was by no means the end of Malick’s production woes— numerous prep challenges and a revolving door of attached leads that reportedly included the likes of Colin Farrell, Mel Gibson and the late Heath Ledger delayed the shoot by several years.  

THE TREE OF LIFE finally went before cameras in 2008, when producer Brad Pitt decided to take on the critical role that they had so much trouble filling; that being Mr. O’ Brien, one of the three figureheads of Malick’s narrative.

I’ve mentioned before how Malick is not so much a storyteller as he is a story-seeker, shuffling through a stack of moving postcards that, when arranged a certain way, reveal the interior dramas that run through them.

THE TREE OF LIFE represents the perfection of an approach that he’d cultivated since DAYS OF HEAVEN, weaving an impressionistic tapestry of image, narration, and music that prompts a stirring meditation on creation’s inherent divinity.

The story unfolds over the entire course of Time itself, beginning with the Big Bang and ending with a vision of the inevitable heat death of the universe; similarly, the scale balloons to an infinite cosmic scale and collapses to the most intimate, cellular level.

In this context, Malick introduces two anchoring narratives that run parallel, both revealing intimate autobiographical details about the director even as they focus on a man named Jack grappling with the natural forces of growth and decline.

The first narrative essentially mirrors Malick’s own upbringing in 1950’s Austin, Texas, finding the O’Brien family living in the suburbs of Waco. The prepubescent Jack, played here by newcomer Hunter McCracken, is a moody, temperamental boy grappling with the trials and tribulations of boyhood while caught between the opposing forces of his mother and father— the way of grace versus the way of nature.

Pitt’s nuanced, haunted performance as Jack’s father, Mr. O’Brien, represents nature: stoic, unforgiving, evolutionary in a “survival of the fittest” sense. Like Malick’s own father, Mr. O’Brien is a geologist who works for an oil company, having fallen back on a conventional career when his love of music proved unable to provide for his family.

Both Mr. O’ Brien and Malick’s father would later fill that void by playing the organ at church— a development that likely conflated music with spirituality in Malick’s young mind.  Jessica Chastain delivers her breakout performance here as Mrs. O’Brien, signifying the opposing force of grace by way of her soulful sensitivity and maternal compassion.

She is a source of comfort for the three O’Brien boys, becoming a place of refuge in the face of Mr. O’Brien’s tempestuous moods, which manifest in explosive displays of biblical fury and brute strength. Jack’s dynamic with his two brother echoes Malick’s own, focusing acutely on the boy’s relationship to his younger brother RL.

Played by Laramie Eppler, RL is a fictional stand-in for Malick’s brother, Larry; a sensitive, withdrawn boy who shares his father’s love for music and meets an untimely off-screen end as a teenager.  It’s implied that this end is due to a car accident, and not a suicide as it was for Larry— however, a car accident was how Malick’s other brother, Chris, met his untimely end.

Tye Sheridan, making his film debut here as the youngest O’Brien boy, Steve, serves as Chris’ stand-in— however, Malick’s theatrical cut affords Sheridan scant time for his own development, turning him into a third wheel with little to add to the proceedings beyond his autobiographical importance.

Rendered in fleeting images that flash like memory, this thread chronicles formative moments from Jack’s boyhood: his birth… the birth of his brothers… the discovery of disease, decay, and death… the introduction of complicated adult emotions like jealousy, contempt, and lust… and ultimately ending with Jack and his family moving away from his childhood home.

THE TREE OF LIFE’s second thread finds Jack all grown up, working as an architect and living in modern-day Dallas.  Sean Penn serves his second tour of duty for Malick after THE THIN RED LINE, imbuing the adult Jack with a quiet, haunted pathos that splits the difference between Pitt and Chastain’s opposing energies.

This storyline is far less defined than the 1950’s thread, finding Jack on the anniversary of RL’s death and wandering his cavernous modern home and sleek, airy office in the grips of his memories.  He begins the day lighting a candle in memory of his late brother, and ends it with an impressionistic vision of a kind of afterlife where he’s reunited with his family amidst a crowd of wandering souls.

Penn’s storyline admittedly feels a bit underdeveloped— indeed, Penn has publicly spoken at length about his disappointment in a final product that doesn’t quite seem to know what to do with him beyond using him as a framing device for the 1950’s storyline.

The general idea connects to the creation sequences and the 1950’s footage well enough, but feels incomplete on its own. Malick’s scissor-happy approach to editing could be the culprit here, having whittled down Penn’s character to the barest sketch of an arc in the face of an overall narrative that was already complicated enough.

As of this writing, an extended edition of the film is due out in August 2018 courtesy of the Criterion Collection, boasting an extra 50 minutes of running time that will no doubt provide a deeper glimpse into Penn’s place within a sweeping and ambitious story that seeks to find a secular divinity within creation.

As mentioned before, THE TREE OF LIFE represents Malick’s attainment of something like perfection within his unique visual style, featuring a narrative that effortlessly lends itself to a series of fleeting vignettes and experimental, symbolic imagery.

Indeed, the aesthetic on display here is about as close as one can conceivably get to the definition of “cinema” in the purest sense, at least as it pertains to the marriage between image and sound. Returning cinematographer Emmanuel “Chivo” Lubezki proves instrumental in this regard, using only the light immediately and naturally available to him to capture some of the most beautiful and evocative imagery ever committed to 35mm celluloid.

Returning to the 1.85:1 aspect ratio for the first time since DAYS OF HEAVEN, Malick and Lubezki retain the restless, penetrating style of camera movement that marked THE THIN RED LINE and THE NEW WORLD, constantly propelling through the frame’s z-axis.

Their improvisatory style of shooting is evident throughout, using handheld or Steadicam setups that allow for the spontaneous capture of life in the present tense.  Despite the relative chaos of said shooting style, the consistent use of lenses with a deep depth of field or compositions that favor magic-hour backlighting allow a cohesive vision to emerge.

Whole sequences are constructed entirely from these fractured snapshots and vignettes, made evocative by their implications. Lubezki would later describe this approach as meaning to trigger “tons of memories, like a scent or perfume”, and towards this end, he and Malick are astonishingly successful— especially within the 1950’s-set scenes at the O’Brien household.

Most people watching the film— at least outside of the real-life town of Smithville, TX, where these scenes were shot— cannot relate to Malick’s story of growing up in suburban Waco in the 1950’s; that is, at least on a superficial level.

That said, Malick’s enigmatic, oblique storytelling unspools like a sense memory, his fleeting images triggering flashbacks to our own childhoods as he charts Jack’s response to key episodes in his psychological development.  Here, the emotional milestones are not birthdays, first communions, or vacations, but rather the discovery of disease & sickness in an otherwise-beautiful world, the confused shame of emerging sexuality, or the mortal terror of a father’s wrath.

The other narrative strands forego the earthiness and rambunctious energy of the boyhood sequences in favor of ethereal, dreamlike images that speak to THE TREE OF LIFE’s profound, secular spirituality.  In a film full of intensely memorable imagery, these moments stand out— a child swimming out of a bedroom submerged entirely in water, Chastain’s character dancing in mid-air, or laying asleep in a glass coffin in the forest not unlike Sleeping Beauty.

Compositions continually land on images of figures or silhouettes aimlessly moving through space— a visual echo of the characters’ internal restlessness. This conceit reaches it apex during adult Jack’s celestial vision of what one might consider an afterlife, where he finds the younger iterations of his family amidst a legion of souls wandering a beautifully-blank landscape.

In his fifth consecutive collaboration with Malick, longtime production designer Jack Fisk uses his subdued and realistic period recreations to amplify the narrative’s visual symbolism— particularly in regards to the found architecture of their many locations: passing through gates comes to symbolize birth, climbing ladders implies ascension.

The film spends a significant amount of time in Jack’s childhood home — one of several charming little bungalows on a sleepy suburban street — tracking the O’Brien boys through the years as they careen around the house, filling it with laughter, love and life.

Malick uses the O’Brien’s eventual move from the house as the climax of the 1950’s narrative, showing us the empty husk of a house they left behind. In so doing, Malick seems to be suggesting that a space is given meaning not by its shape, but by the memories we infuse in it; the tone or energy of a building is a product of the manner in which its occupants inhabit it.

In this context, the modern-day sequences with adult Jack wandering his intimidating office tower suggest humanity’s alienation within these colossal structures— our cosmic insignificance laid bare for all to see.

Indeed, THE TREE OF LIFE is quite interested in Man’s place in the universe and creation.  A large chunk of the narrative diverts from its focus on Jack to depict the birth of time & space, charting the evolution of life on Earth from the planet’s formation on down to the emergence of complex organisms.

Malick shoots these sequences on 65mm and IMAX film, giving them a majestic, staggering scale to match their subject matter. A large portion of this sequence is derived from landscape aerials shot from a helicopter, featuring a variety of stunning, primal vistas from all over the world that, when placed in just the right order, recreate the millennia-spanning story of the Earth’s creation.

Even more impressive are the shots depicting the cosmos, which amazingly forego computer-generated imagery in favor of practical effects. Towards this end, Malick would enlist the help of Doug Trumbull, the venerated visual effects artist behind Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY (1968), bringing him out of retirement for the first time since Ridley Scott’s BLADE RUNNER thirty years prior.

Trumbull utilizes high-speed photography, fluid dynamics and experimental techniques to render the majesty of the infinite, throwing a variety of chemicals, paints, dyes, smoke and liquids onto spin dishes and into water tanks. CGI is deployed, however, during what has become one of the film’s most-contested scenes: a brief exchange between two dinosaurs that Malick had reportedly intended to convey the genesis of complex thought beyond predator/prey instincts.

The admittedly-flimsy CGI undermines what is arguably an interesting effort to show how relatively-sophisticated ideological concepts like mercy are just as much a product of evolution as the biological aspects. As a whole, THE TREE OF LIFE’s creation sequences would prove highly inspirational for Malick.

In fact, he’d accumulate enough footage to create an additional feature, expanding his exploration of life’s journey into an IMAX documentary that he would release five years later titled VOYAGE OF TIME.

It’s not unusual for a Malick film to feature multiple editors, but THE TREE OF LIFE might take the cake in terms of sheer quantity.  No less than five editors claim credit, with newcomers like Jay Rabinowitz and Daniel Rezende working alongside returning collaborators Billy Weber, Hank Corbin, and Mark Yoshikawa. Together they build upon the unique style established in THE THIN RED LINE and THE NEW WORLD.

Whereas Malicks’ two prior films featured conventional dialogue scenes as part of its storytelling character, THE TREE OF LIFE minimizes the exchange of dialogue to maybe a handful of select scenes, favoring the art of suggestion by zeroing in on a scene’s essential image and deploying hushed, inward-looking voiceover for emotional context.

Music plays an important part in this approach, bridging sequences together as a singular river of story, ever-flowing. Alexandre Desplat provides a subdued original score — indeed, it’s hard to point to any particular melody or musical theme emblematic of Desplat’s work here.  That said, THE TREE OF LIFE is filled with music— just not his music.

Like Hans Zimmer or James Horner before him, Desplat would see his work replaced by a suite of classical and religious deep cuts from Malick’s own collection.  These needledrops infuse Malick’s cascading river of evocative imagery with the mythic aura that encapsulates his previous work. Religious tracks like John Tavener’s “Funeral Canticle” or Zbigniew Preisner’s “Lacrimosa” underscore Malick’s approach regarding the inherent divinity of creation, evolution and the cycle of life.

Indeed, sequences like the birth of the universe, or Mrs. O’ Brien’s inconsolable grief over the loss of her son, use these tracks to capture the same kind of reverence one would bring to church. Malick also uses “Vltava (The Moldau)” from Bedrich Smetana’s “Ma vlast” several times throughout THE TREE OF LIFE, most notably in a sequence that features young Jack running around with his brothers, capturing the exuberance of life at its prime.

In a move that would unwittingly affect his subsequent work, Malick licenses a track from emerging composer Hanan Townshend, who would then go on to serve as the composer for the director’s next two films.

If one were to make the case that THE TREE OF LIFE is Malick’s best film (and there is indeed such a case), he or she might point to the autobiographical nature of the film’s thematic and aesthetic inclinations. While the reclusive filmmaker would never admit that the film is indeed autobiographical, the parallels between Jack’s story and his own upbringing in midcentury Texas are too close to deny.

The film’s thematic explorations conform immaculately to the shape of Malick’s artistry, unified by a restless, wandering spirit that manifests itself through a constantly-roaming camera, listless action within the frame, and reverential voiceovers that repeatedly invoke the familial divinity of creation via personifying idioms like “mother” and “brother”.

Indeed, THE TREE OF LIFE is a prime example of filmmaking as a form of prayer, animated by a secular spirituality that sees holiness in the chemical reactions that shape our universe, or the electrical signals that light up our brains with conscious, self-reflective thought.

However, as evidenced by the film’s opening with a quote from the biblical book of Job, Malick’s expression of nature’s divinity frequently favors the visual iconography and syntax of Judeo-Christian religions— a kind of grounding device from Malick’s own upbringing that serves as a springboard into the deeper world of spirituality.

The archetypical “loss-of-innocence” narrative is another thread that ties Malick’s larger filmography together, and THE TREE OF LIFE reveals itself as a key work in that regard.  Milestone developmental episodes punctuate Jack’s narrative, detailing his reactions to the onset of puberty, the corruption of sickness, and the realization of death’s quiet permanence.

Childhood’s simplistic view of the world gives way to an increasingly complex understanding of its realities— the act of growing up is in and of itself an existential crisis.

Also like he’s done in previous work, Malick projects his characters’ interior tangles with corruption onto their surrounding landscape, drawing a distinct contrast between rural and industrial or urban backdrops. Jack’s boyhood home, located in the sleepy suburbs outside a small town, comes to represent the emotional purity of adolescence— all the intricacies of life boiled down to their essence, the scope of Jack’s world contained entirely within the limits of his immediate neighborhood.

Lush with sun-dappled trees and vibrant local wildlife, these sequences are observed through the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia, leaning into the popular idea amongst the Baby Boomer generation that the 1950’s were a simpler, more idyllic time.

Kids were free to play in the street, people regularly went to church, and a middle class family could live comfortably off of a single source of income.  To his credit, Malick knows that the 1950’s were far from perfect; while he doesn’t go as far as addressing major flashpoints like segregation, he nevertheless chips away at the era’s blissful ignorance by showing us the imperfections on the fringes: a heated domestic argument behind closed doors, children eagerly running into a toxic plume of insecticide smoke, police taking a criminal away from the scene of a crime in full view of the public.

Malick contrasts the simple perfection of Jack’s pastoral boyhood with the disorienting complexity of adult Jack’s urban surroundings, using towering glass skyscrapers and cold, cavernous interiors that actively seek to disconnect alienate Jack from his surroundings. Even his own home as an adult lacks the warmth, intimacy, and spatial cohesion of his childhood house.

Malick hammers home this stark contrast through the recurring use of an upward-looking camera that draws visual comparisons between trees and skyscrapers alike as awe-inspiring structures reaching towards the heavens.  The overall effect is a constant, self-reinforcing circle of thematic unity, wherein Malick’s ideological interests feed into each other to create a visceral and immersive experience that’s much, much more than the sum of its parts.

Of Malick’s post-hiatus output, THE TREE OF LIFE is easily his most celebrated and well-received— despite casual moviegoers being so confused about its elliptical snapshot-style of storytelling that theaters had to post physical signs explaining that its enigmatic nature was intentional.

Contrary to, well, nearly every other filmmaker who ever lived, Malick’s films routinely spend years in post-production while he exactingly tinkers with his edits.  Having missed its initial 2009 and 2010 release dates, THE TREE OF LIFE proved no different, finally premiering in competition at the 2011 Cannes Film Festival and taking home one of the most prestigious prizes in all of cinema, the Palme d’Or.

The mixed nature of early reviews soon gave way to the film’s rapturous embrace by prominent critics, who regarded it as nothing less than Malick’s crowning achievement as a filmmaker.  Three Oscar nominations followed: one for Best Picture, another for Lubezki’s cinematography, and the third being Malick’s second nod for his directing. Despite losing out on all three categories, THE TREE OF LIFE has refused to lose its luster in the years since, displaying an enduring resonance as perhaps Malick’s most-defining work.

His soulful sensitivity imbues the final product with the palpable vitality of life itself, proving that the visual language of cinema is still evolving, and that a century-old medium still possesses untold secrets and boundless opportunities— containing nothing less in its potential than the scope of the heavens.


VOYAGE OF TIME (2016)

Part of the stated mission of “The Directors Series” is watching a given filmmaker’s output in chronological order, so as to better chart his or her artistic development. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, and Terrence Malick’s experimental documentary VOYAGE OF TIME (2016)  is one particularly apt exception.

 Sandwiched between the release of KNIGHT OF CUPS (2015) and SONG TO SONG (2017), VOYAGE OF TIME bears such an undeniable association with 2011’s THE TREE OF LIFE that one simply cannot fully explore either work without the context of the other.

Indeed, the majority of VOYAGE OF TIME’s footage was captured at the same time as THE TREE OF LIFE’s corresponding creation sequences, suggesting that the two works continually informed one another throughout the course of production.

VOYAGE OF TIME shares THE TREE OF LIFE’s extensive slate of producing talent, boasting the oversight of Grant Hill, Brad Pitt, Bill Pohlad, and Dede Gardner, as well as his regular producing partners Sarah Green and Nicolas Gonda.

Though this team had been actively producing VOYAGE OF TIME for the preceding 12 years on a budget of $12 million, Malick’s personal development efforts stretched back even further— both VOYAGE OF TIME and THE TREE OF LIFE were outgrowths of his ambition passion project “Q”, which he intended as his follow-up to DAYS OF HEAVEN (1978) before subsequently abandoning it and commencing his two-decade absence from cinema screens.

Malick had always described his vision for VOYAGE OF TIME as “one of his greatest dreams” (2)(3), and indeed, there were so many points throughout development, production, and release where said dream could have gone unrealized.

Thankfully, not only does VOYAGE OF TIME exist, but it does so in no less than three different variants, each one endeavoring to expand on THE TREE OF LIFE’s cosmic creation sequences with a celebrative foray into the evolution of life and the universe.

Indeed, VOYAGE OF TIME plays very much like THE TREE OF LIFE, had the 1950’s Waco and modern-day Dallas narrative threads been excised completely.  The general thrust of story is the same across all three versions, featuring stunning landscape and wildlife photography shot by famed nature cinematographer Paul Atkins, as well as evocative liquid physics and spinning dish effects by SFX supervisor Dan Glass working under Douglas Trumbull.

Comprised of a mix of 35mm film, 65mm IMAX film, and high-resolution digital, VOYAGE OF TIME adopts an omniscient view that effortlessly slides along an infinite scale, capturing scenes as minute as cells dividing as effortlessly as the the celestial birth of gargantuan star systems.

Majestic magic-hour aerials and swooping underwater camerawork document the evolution of life on Earth, doubling down on THE TREE OF LIFE’s controversial inclusion of dinosaurs by adding even more of them in all their dodgy CGI-rendered glory.

Despite telling the same story, the three cuts of VOYAGE OF TIME differ rather wildly in their respective technical presentations.   The first version, running forty minutes and dubbed “The IMAX Experience”, is no doubt Malick’s intended exhibition format— if not his ideal length or narrative style.

Presented in the square 1.43:1 frame unique to IMAX, this first version’s comparatively-shorter running time forces Malick to dwell on said creation sequences almost exclusively, conscripting THE TREE OF LIFE’s Brad Pitt to provide a rather straightforward voiceover for narrative context.

The limitations of IMAX as an exhibition format — such as shorter run times demanded by the sheer size of the 70mm IMAX gauge when spooled up into reels, or the limited number of dedicated IMAX venues — prompted Malick to generate a second, longer cut dubbed “LIFE’S JOURNEY”.

Running ninety minutes and presented in the conventional 1.85:1 aspect ratio, this version is easily the most Malick-ian in tone and style.  Cate Blanchett, fresh off two collaborations with Malick on KNIGHT OF CUPS and SONG TO SONG, delivers a lyrical, introspective narration in a hushed, prayerful tone.

Far more than just an “extended edition”, “LIFE’S JOURNEY” expands on footage seen in the “IMAX Experience” with low-resolution digital video footage presented in the square 1.33:1 frame, speaking to Malick’s latter-day interest in the juxtaposition of various formats and visual textures with the blown-out contrast and seared colors of cheap consumer video.

These sequences paint an observational, “slice-of-life” portrait of modern society in all its vibrant color and decrepit squalor, subverting Malick’s pristine celluloid images with chunky video resembling a home movie shot while on vacation.

Another narrative movement find early man at his most primitive, forging a meager hunter-gatherer existence in a harsh, unwelcoming environment.  Some sources claim this footage actually dates back to the late 1970’s, back when Malick was developing the film in its “Q” incarnation—- however, this sequence (which was allegedly shot on 35mm film) admittedly looks a little too pristine for its supposed age, and the roaming, restless manner in which it’s shot feels too much in-line with his latter-day aesthetic to have credibly followed right after DAYS OF HEAVEN.

While these two versions are the ones commonly referred to when one talks of VOYAGE OF TIME, there is yet a third version, dubbed “The IMAX Experience in Ultra Widescreen”.  This version — arguably Malick’s preferred cut of the picture — drops the narration entirely, in favor of an impressionistic soundscape comprised entirely of music and sound effects.

The footage was also re-scanned at a staggering 11,000 lines of resolutions and re-composed into a virtually-unrivaled ultra-wide frame boasting dimensions of 3.6:1. Despite receiving the widest theatrical release of the three variants, this version is arguably the most elusive, considering its extremely short exhibition window and the total radio silence concerning an eventual home video release.

Created under the auspices of a “documentary”, VOYAGE OF TIME nevertheless embodies the same experimental artistic stylings that Malick brings to his narrative work.  This is especially true of “LIFE’S JOURNEY”, anchored by Blanchett’s prayer-like voiceover which, like the O’Brien family in THE TREE OF LIFE or Pocahontas in 2005’s THE NEW WORLD, invokes creation and the natural world using the humanizing, familial term of “Mother”.

This same strain of secular spirituality runs through Malick’s larger body of work, embracing nature’s maternal qualities and the delicate harmony of interconnected ecosystems.  Indeed, Malick sees the divine in the fragile balance of creation— a long, wordless stretch finds erupting volcanoes giving rise to coal-black landmasses, the slow-moving waves of orange magma stopped and cooled by a frigid ocean perfectly calibrated to oppose its burn.

Together, these two opposing forces build up the earth that supports complex life through the millennia, eventually culminating in the massive, glittering cityscapes of modern human civilization. Even these artificial, man-made structures take on a symbiotic relationship with the natural world, sickening it via pollution and decay.

Malick has long used the visual contrasts between industrial and agrarian landscapes to better explore the theme of “innocence lost”, likening mankind’s aspirations towards industrialization to Adam & Eve’s casting out from the biblical Garden of Eden.

Since his return from a two-decade filmmaking sabbatical, Malick has increasingly explored this theme through the prism of human suffering and misery.  This is where “LIFE’S JOURNEY”’s digital video vignettes achieve resonance, with clips shot in Los Angeles’ Skid Row particularly standing out as a display of the ravages of man’s corruption— disease, addiction, mental rot, and extreme poverty.

Nevertheless, Malick still presents these people as fundamentally human, capturing their misfortune with a compassionate eye. They too are the children of creation, and their estrangement from its life-sustaining purity is a development to be lamented— and if possible, rectified.

Without any narrative attachments to a central character, VOYAGE OF TIME becomes perhaps the purest expression of Malick’s thematic fascinations as a filmmaker— a towering chronicle spanning all of time and space in its exploration of cosmic creation and the evolution of life on Earth.

Following the course of nearly all his post-hiatus outpost, VOYAGE OF TIME spent an interminable amount of time in post-production, lagging behind THE TREE OF LIFE’s release by five years despite most of its photography occurring simultaneously.

The positive critical reviews out of festivals like Venice and Toronto didn’t quite align with a mixed reception by audiences— an outcome that speaks to Malick’s polarizing status within contemporary cinema.

Distributor Broad Green Pictures, the now-defunct company who also brought KNIGHT OF CUPS and SONG TO SONG to cinema screens, wisely programmed VOYAGE OF TIME at specialty IMAX theaters in nature & science centers rather than conventional multiplexes.

This strategy admittedly would limit the film’s box office potential, but it also reinforced a kind of academic pedigree usually accorded to nature documentaries.  If we’re being honest with ourselves, VOYAGE OF TIME was never going to be a blockbuster anyway— one could argue Broad Green’s approach was sound in its decision to embrace the rarefied air of exclusivity that a limited specialty release would provide.

Regardless of reception, the film’s release represents the fulfillment of one of Malick’s longtime dreams as a filmmaker; the culmination of decades of thought and physical effort, molded in the shape of a once-in-a-lifetime work of cinematic art.

Since Broad Green imploded, VOYAGE OF TIME’s fate in the home video market has languished in the limbo of uncertainty— if you didn’t catch it in theaters, your best bet as of this writing is to cop the Japanese Blu Ray release on eBay.

Hopefully the Criterion Collection will swoop in and provide a comprehensive North American release, but until then, Malick enthusiasts should still make the effort to seek out VOYAGE OF TIME— both as an essential companion piece to THE TREE OF LIFE and a thought-provoking experience in its own right.


TO THE WONDER (2012)

Over the course of a filmmaking career that has spanned nearly four decades but only produced five feature films, director Terrence Malick has become more of a myth than a man.  In the eyes of the filmgoing public, he has unwittingly cultivated the aura of a mysterious recluse, emerging from his hiding place every half decade with another long-awaited film that he refuses to do any press or publicity for.

The release of 2011’s THE TREE OF LIFE would signal a shift in Malick’s artistic approach, in that he was evidently willing to mine episodes from his own life for narrative exploitation.  This would be hailed by some as a grand revelation about the film’s enigmatic creator— a window into the soul of a man who had revealed so many secrets about cinema’s untold potential while absolutely refusing to yield anything personal about himself in the process.

What the film community could not anticipate was Malick’s imminent plans to blow up everything about the meticulous reputation he had spent a lifetime cultivating. Not only was he willing to draw creative inspiration from his own life, but he was also about to embark on a rapid-fire spurt of film shoots that would almost double his existing filmography.

Indeed, amidst all the buzz from THE TREE OF LIFE winning the prestigious Palme d’Or at Cannes, there were whispers that Malick’s follow-up project was already in the can— secretly shot in Oklahoma with Ben Affleck as its lead.

It wasn’t long until rumor became fact; barely a year after THE TREE OF LIFE’s release, Malick dropped TO THE WONDER, a sweeping love story that he had shot in an exceedingly experimental fashion in late 2010.

Produced under the supervision of his regular partners, Sarah Green and Nicolas Gonda, TO THE WONDER presented itself at the time as something of a companion piece to THE TREE OF LIFE— rendered in a similar visual style comprised of lyrical vignettes and fleeting snapshots, it seemed to counter the earlier film’s rapturous embrace of creation with a sobering meditation on the nature of decay and rot.

Several years later, it’s now apparent that TO THE WONDER is not so much part of a pair with THE TREE OF LIFE as it is the first chapter in a sprawling, semi-autobiographical trilogy about man’s moral reckoning with his flaws and the alienating effects of modern society.

While TO THE WONDER’s surface plot is heavily fictionalized, the broad strokes of its story nevertheless offer us our most intimate look yet at the enigmatic director’s interior life.  Ben Affleck stars as Neil, an American caught up in a whirlwind romance with a Parisian woman named Marina, played by Olga Kurylenko.

After a brief fling in Paris, he invites her, as well as her young daughter Tatiana, to come live in Oklahoma with him— an offer they gleefully accept.  At first, Marina and Tatiana revel in the wide open skies and the expansive fields, the pristinely sterile grocery stores, and the cozy confines of a brand new house in the exurbs.

But soon, disillusionment and unhappiness sets in— a homesick Marina abandons Neil to return to Paris, and Neil finds love again with an old flame, a ranch hand named Jane, played by Rachel McAdams.  It’s only a matter of time until Marina contacts Neil, wanting to return to American and marry him so she can get a green card.

Torn between his two loves, Neil has to choose. What follows is an emotionally-sprawling investigation into the mystery of love; a contemplative elegy for restless hearts that draws from Malick’s own experiences in the twenty-year hiatus he took between DAYS OF HEAVEN (1978) and THE THIN RED LINE (1998).

After leaving Hollywood for Paris in the late 1970’s, Malick began a relationship with a woman named Michele Morette.  Following their marriage in 1985, the couple traded the City Of Lights for the pastoral tranquility of small town Oklahoma.

Malick and Morette would ultimately divorce in 1998, whereupon he quickly remarried a woman named Alexandra Wallace, the former high school sweetheart he affectionately called “Ecky”.  It’s easy to draw the parallels between TO THE WONDER’s story and Malick’s own, but in offering up a rare nugget of autobiographical detail, the filmmaker only prompts more questions— ironically deepening the air of mystery that already surrounds him.

The first full feature film of Malick’s to be set in the modern day, TO THE WONDER works from the barest sketch of a script, with Malick instead opting for the spontaneity and emotional truthfulness of improvisation.  More often than not, he would direct his cast to play out their emotions through their physicality, having forbidden them from speaking.

This results in a wonderfully kinetic approach to blocking and movement that better allows for Malick’s camera to organically react to the action in a given scene, imbuing TO THE WONDER with an unparalleled energy and vigor.  Affleck’s character serves as little more than a cypher, anchoring a story that, quite frankly, doesn’t really concern him.

Often shot from behind, Affleck projects a silent, stoic presence with roiling inner conflict that occasionally explodes into volatile physicality.  As a director himself, Affleck knows to trust Malick’s guidance in creating a courageous performance, even when it ostensibly leads towards his marginalization within his own film.

Indeed, TO THE WONDER’s dramatic sympathies and narrative interest instead lie with Kurylenko, McAdams, and Javier Bardem’s Father Quintana, a priest caught up in his own crisis of faith and doubt. Compassionate and deeply troubled by the moral and physical decay he finds surrounding him, Father Quintana only tangentially connects to the main plot, occasionally providing spiritual guidance to Neil and Marina as the pastor at their church.

He’s used to people looking to him for answers, but he’s increasingly finding he has none. Indeed, there are only questions, the most pressing being: how far can his flock stray before the shepherd loses his own way?

If doubt and uncertainty, rather than direct action, are the forces that drive TO THE WONDER’s restless story, than Kurylenko’s Marina and McAdams’ Jane stand as its true protagonists.  The youthful innocence that repeatedly sends Kurylenko frolicking through pastoral fields also belies a persistent melancholy and homesickness.

Her passion is volatile, swinging effortlessly from affection to hostility with the flick of a switch. As a Parisian who thrived in the hustle and bustle of a modern world-class city, she finds nothing but quiet isolation in the wide open spaces of Oklahoma, its endless open skies only amplifying the echo chamber of her doubts.

Simply put, she is a stranger in a strange land, and the love she has with Neil offers little in the way of comfort; the house they share is too cold and empty to truly be a home. By contrast, McAdams is much more steady in her emotional states, opting for a persistent, quiet grief stemming from the loss of a young daughter some years ago.

Her delicate frame betrays a profound toughness that seems to give Neil the psychological grounding he needs. She’s ready to start living her life again after an unimaginable personal loss, but unfortunately she’s chosen to live it with a man who isn’t fully present; whose heart still yearns for another woman on the other side of the world.

TO THE WONDER follows these four restless souls as they wander in search of unattainable answers to questions they can’t quite articulate, yielding very little in the way of consequential plotting, but an abundance of profound insights into the transcendent, complicated and often-overwhelming experience of love and its unknowable mysteries.

After two successful collaborations together on THE NEW WORLD and THE TREE OF LIFE, it’s fair to say to that Malick has found a kindred spirit in cinematographer Emmanuel “Chivo” Lubezki.

An unconventional shooting style such as Malick’s requires an intimate familiarity between director and camera-man, and the occasion of their third consecutive collaboration in TO THE WONDER gives both men the confidence to push said style to its extreme limits.

Shooting primarily on 35mm celluloid film in the 2.35:1 aspect ratio, Malick and Lubezki use a combination of kinetic camera movement and anamorphic lenses to give a floating, ethereal flair to their fleeting images.  Far from a dispassionate, distant observer, Malick’s camera is instead an omniscient, restless presence capable of capturing the hidden emotions of its subjects and suffusing even the most trivial and everyday of interactions with a profound existential subtext.

Organically-motivated handheld and Steadicam moves continually push through the frame’s z-axis, further adding to Malick’s penetrating and inquisitive storytelling approach while a sprawling depth of field beckons the viewer with a veritable bounty of detail extending towards the horizon.

Lubezki once again proves himself a master of natural light, consistently backlighting his subjects against a lighting source like magic hour’s dim glow to add an ever-present veneer of romantic realism. Other compositional conceits like lens flares or evocative light patterns cast by window panes are a recurring source of artful imagery throughout, helping Malick and Lubezki to further capture the quiet spirituality of the natural world.

Autumnal tones define TO THE WONDER’s color palette, rendering the astonishing beauty of Oklahoma fields in dusky golds, oranges and reds that both counteract and complement the sterile beiges and browns of Neil and Marina’s lifeless suburban tract home.

TO THE WONDER’s striking 35mm photography would be notable enough on its own merits, but Malick also uses the film as an opportunity to experiment with the juxtaposition of visual textures afforded by a mixed media approach.

Sequences featuring McAdams were shot using the larger 65mm gauge, which blends rather effortlessly with the 35mm footage while boasting a higher resolution that suggests a practical, visceral hyper-reality counter to the comparatively-dreamy gauziness of Kurylenko’s scenes.

It’s also worth noting that the camera becomes substantially steadier whenever McAdams is on-screen, visually reinforcing the calming quality that her affections bring to Neil’s restless passion.

Additionally, TO THE WONDER finds Malick incorporating digital photography for the first time— a sequence featuring Marina walking amidst the rain-slicked Parisian streets at night was shot with Red cameras to achieve a cosmopolitan sleekness as well as increased detail in a low light setting.

The film opens with chunky video footage shot on a specialized Japanese toy camera, instantly defying our expectations about how a “Malick film” is supposed to look. While many collaborators have come and gone throughout Malick’s career, the one constant presence has been production designer Jack Fisk.

From his debut with BADLANDS (1976) and onwards, Malick has yet to embark on a theatrical feature without Fisk at his side.  Indeed, Fisk’s involvement has only grown more vital with each subsequent work, rooting himself in tandem with Malick as the director has increasingly shown an interest in exploring how people inhabit various spaces.

In the case of TO THE WONDER, Fisk works with Malick to create a rugged world filled with the heartache and yearning that consumes so much of its characters’ thoughts.  This is done primarily through the intentional sparseness of Neil and Marina’s home; the lack of furniture, art, or color creates something of an emotional homeless that echoes the hollow center of their relationship.

Devoid of anything that makes a house a home, this empty structure — one of dozens of identical structures on a treeless street — becomes a beige prison; a carpeted cage that keeps their passion from taking flight. As they wander their empty home, trying to avoid each other, they come to realize they are simply playing house— and the game stopped being fun quite some time ago.

Fisk and Malick also go to great lengths to create a strong visual contrast between pastoral Oklahoma and the bustling cityscape of Paris.  We hardly see any people walking around the streets of small town Bartlesville, save for the downtrodden populace that Father Quintana visits.

Malick’s Bartlesville, then, is a town of wide, empty streets; beautiful empty buildings; gorgeous skies devoid of air traffic. Here, the traffic jams are caused not by cars but by herds of grazing bison.  Paris, on the other hand, is a teeming utopia of busy pedestrians, honking vehicles, light pollution and centuries of soot-stained history.

“We’ll always have Paris” is the cliche line, but in the case of Neil & Marina, it’s more than just a truthhood- it’s a painful embodiment of the ideal they’ll never attain as a couple.  Fisk, then, has the unenviable task of providing TO THE WONDER’s title with its meaning— often regarded as one of the Wonders Of the World, Mont Saint-Michel in Normandy, France stands as a looming presence in Neil and Marina’s relationship.

The site of a romantic day date seen early in the film, the stunning landmark comes to represent the zenith of their happiness; a paradise rendered in gorgeous medieval architecture that they were able to physically experience for only a fleeting moment and yet can never return to in a philosophical sense.

Fisk and Malick manage to conjure a mythical, celestial aura about the space— it seems to belong more to the realm of the mind than as a physical landmark within the real world that anybody can visit. In rendering Mont Saint-Michel in this way, Malick and Fisk raise one of TO THE WONDER’s most salient thematic inquiries: if you could experience Heaven, then how could you possibly return to a happy existence back on Earth?

The answer to that question is understandably elusive — impossible, even — but fortunately, we have the rapturous wonder of music to lessen the sting.  As such, music plays a huge role throughout TO THE WONDER.  In lieu of clear plot progression, music steps in to string Malick’s sequences and vignettes together with an emotional through-line.

Having come to Malick’s attention when one of his tracks was licensed for THE TREE OF LIFE, the then-twenty-six year-old composer Hanan Townshend was invited to create the score for TO THE WONDER.  Comprised mostly of brooding, atmospheric strings, Townshend’s score perfectly complements an aggressive selection of classical and religious source music from Malick’s personal collection.

The usage of Arvo Part’s “Fratres For Eight Cellos” has become somewhat of a staple amongst recent independent cinema of a certain mindset— that being of the dark and deadly serious variety. The appeal of Part’s work lies in the quiet majesty it imprints on whatever image it accompanies, an effect that TO THE WONDER employs to its advantage in helping the audience access the innermost restlessness and disquiet of its characters.

In a move that’s quite indicative of the importance that Malick places on the post-production process, TO THE WONDER credits no less than five editors.  The efforts of THE NEW WORLD and THE TREE OF LIFE’s Mark Yoshikawa join those of newcomers like AJ Edwards, Keith Fraase, Shane Hazen, and Christopher Roldan.

The editing team’s approach builds upon the template that Malick has slowly cultivated through the decades, foregoing the construction of scenes in the conventional linear fashion in favor of elliptical snapshots that zero in on the narrative essence of the scene while suggesting the fleeting ephemerality of life itself.

To help them wrap their heads around his desired style, Malick provided his editors with copies of relevant literature and screened classic works from the French New Wave like Francois Truffaut’s JULES AND JIM (1962) and Jean-Luc Godard’s BREATHLESS (1961).

While the experience of watching this approach unfold feels quite chaotic and free-form, the approach itself is actually exceedingly disciplined— oftentimes coming at the expense of the subjects contained within.

We’ve already covered TO THE WONDER’s cast of note, but few also know that THE TREE OF LIFE’s Jessica Chastain, Michael Sheen, Amanda Peet, Barry Pepper, and Michael Shannon all shot scenes for the film, only to find their characters ultimately deemed unnecessary to the central story as Malick ruthlessly worked his footage into coherent shape.

Indeed, it becomes immediately evident that Malick intends on finding the purest form of his relatively newfound voice, paring the building blocks of cinema down to their most essential constituent parts and then re-engineering their construction entirely.

If “plot” can be thought of as the support structure of conventional narrative, Malick’s approach prefers to build with “theme” and “emotion”, ultimately achieving a final form that one could credibly call the visual equivalent of poetry.

Much like poetry, Malick’s storytelling is predicated upon the art of suggestion, allowing the audience to fill in the connective tissue between scenes with their own unmanipulated emotions and experience.  This makes for an exceedingly personal and deeply-felt viewing experience that strikes to the heart of Malick’s polarizing status as an artist.

The act of watching a Malick film is an active one, whereas many people simply prefer a passive watching experience that requires little in the way of emotional or intellectual investment. On top of that, the nature of his stories — especially those contained within his triptych of TO THE WONDER, KNIGHT OF CUPS, and SONG TO SONG — prompts a high degree of self-reflection on the audience’s part, forcing them to reckon with their own faults and imperfections.

Naturally, many instinctively recoil at the suggestion of harsh self-evaluation, whereas others draw inspiration and focus from it. It wouldn’t be a surprise if there was a strong correlation between that dichotomy and the spread of Malick’s supporters and detractors.

Six features into his career, Malick has cemented the cornerstones of his artistry into a relatively narrow set of thematic preoccupations.  While one might argue this should result in a predictable, repetitive filmography, the themes that appeal to Malick fortunately provide a lifetime’s worth of narrative and artistic possibilities.

The evolution of his particular aesthetic is driven by Malick’s never-ending philosophical pursuit of the answers to Big Questions: “why are we here?”… “what is my purpose?”… “who am I, really?”.  Malick’s restless camera reinforces the inquisitive nature of his storytelling, and the increasingly-abstract nature of his editing serves to drop the audience into the mindsets of his characters.

By paring down dialogue scenes to their fragmented essence and supplying narrative meaning through ruminative, hushed voiceover, Malick crafts an omniscient — but not dispassionate — perspective of the world, allowing us to drift in and out of multiple streams of consciousness.

These voiceovers often have a regional twang to them, serving as further opportunity to convey character. TO THE WONDER distinguishes itself in this regard by leaning into the international nature of its plot, featuring subtitled voiceovers rendered in Marina’s native French, or Father Quintana’s reverent Spanish, in addition to the English monologues supplied by Neil and Jane.

The content of the voiceovers themselves varies only slightly from character to character, allowing Malick to hammer home on the film’s big ideas from a relatively comprehensive and unified standpoint while also reinforcing our psychological interconnectedness to one another as sons and daughters of creation.

While Malick’s cinematic explorations of spirituality have always been grounded in the syntax and iconography of the Judeo-Christian tradition, TO THE WONDER easily stands as not just his most overtly religious film, but as one of the most truly soulful experiences in recent memory.

The mention of “religious entertainment” normally calls to mind preachy, straight-to-video melodramas that induce only groans and jeering laughter from those outside the frenzied echo chamber of contemporary American Evangelicalism.

These cinematic “parables” wear their capitalistic ambitions on their sleeves, seeking only to impart cheap moral platitudes to the already-converted. Malick offers an alternative — and far-more intellectually satisfying — example of religion as a thematic device, framing his characters’ spiritual crises through the prism of Catholicism.

Serving as a kind of inverted mirror image to THE TREE OF LIFE’s rapture towards creation’s beauty, TO THE WONDER captures the Catholic guilt of lost innocence and the existential ache of creation’s imperfections— the latter of which is manifest quite viscerally in the disease, decay, addiction & deformity that Father Quintana repeatedly encounters.

Where THE TREE OF LIFE embraces faith, TO THE WONDER questions it; holds it at arm’s length and asks tough questions of it.  From Malick’s perspective, blind faith is not the same thing as true faith.

Indeed, the foundation of one’s very being must be tested before achieving true spiritual actualization— the cold world, reinforced quite neatly by the film’s melancholy autumnal backdrop, must first beat us down before we can truly appreciate its fleeting beauty.

All of Malick’s work to date is predicated upon this idea of “innocence lost”, to the extent that most of his film’s narratives begin with the committing of a cardinal sin that the protagonist must then spend the rest of the story answering for.  In BADLANDS, it was Holly and Kit’s lust for each other that caused them to shoot down her father and go on the run.

Pride drove DAYS OF HEAVEN’s Bill to kill his employer and escape to the Texas Panhandle.  Wrath was responsible for the wanton bloodshed and destruction throughout THE THIN RED LINE.  The conflict between the settlers and the Algonquin people of Virginia depicted in THE NEW WORLD was primarily caused by the settler’s greed.

The cardinal sin that drives TO THE WONDER is envy, manifest in the combative passion exhibited by Neil and Marina.  Insecure in the knowledge that the foundation of their relationship will never be as solid as they want it to be, they swing wildly between breathtaking romance and seething contempt for each other, pushing and pulling like an unstable star about to go supernova.

That they are surrounded by the natural world’s beauty is a constant, nagging reminder of their estrangement from it. They are imperfect beings in a perfect world, and their awareness of this fact causes an existential unmooring that corrupts the soul.

Architecture plays an important role towards this end, with Malick finding the dramatic in the mundane by gliding through space with his camera, propelled by curiosity.  If our lives are like a river — constantly flowing forward through time — then the architecture of both the natural and the built environment determine its course, guiding our movements as we pass through.

Coming from the soot-stained streets of Paris, Oklahoma might seem perfect to Marina. However, she gradually comes to know its corruption— the industrial decay; the health concerns; the pollution that is a direct byproduct of her idealized American lifestyle.

The cruel irony is that Paris offers no quarter either: the whimsical, vibrant Old World city where Neil and Marina first fell in love is not the alienating, overpopulated, and dirty Paris that Marina finds when she moves back. The manner in which Malick depicts these locations with his camera doesn’t necessarily change as the film unfolds— rather, its our perception of them that evolves, right alongside the characters.

This is one of TO THE WONDER’s artistic triumphs: Malick’s ultimate success in placing us so centrally within his characters’ internal consciousness that we unconsciously begin seeing the world as they do.  TO THE WONDER is all the more remarkable considering it followed THE TREE OF LIFE only a year later, whereas Malick’s admirers typically have to go years between a new work.

The film premiered at the Venice Film Festival, where it was nominated for the Golden Lion before going on to mixed reviews from critics and middling box office.  Many prominent critics thought Malick’s indulgence in an artsy, experimental aesthetic had reached its nadir— that a once-evocative and original voice had finally atrophied into incomprehension, pretentiousness, and self-parody.

This was not the case with Robert Ebert, who’s glowing review for TO THE WONDER would become his last; filed just mere days before his death in April of 2013 and published posthumously.  Ebert’s review would not just be a counter-argument to the film’s many detractors, but a rallying cry for the importance of Malick’s voice in contemporary cinema as well as a fitting eulogy for the celebrated critic himself.

There is perhaps no greater testament to TO THE WONDER’s artistic value and Ebert’s legacy than the man’s last published words:

“’Why must a film explain everything?  Why must every motivation be spelled out?  Aren’t many films fundamentally the same film, with only the specifics changed?  Aren’t many of them telling the same story? Seeking perfection, we see what our dreams and hopes might look like.  We realize they come as a gift through no power of our own, and if we lose them, isn’t that almost worse than never having had them in the first place?”


KNIGHT OF CUPS (2015)

Still basking in the recent glow of his Palme d’Or win for THE TREE OF LIFE (2011), director Terrence Malick had seemingly discovered a newfound burst of vitality by mining his own past for narrative inspiration.

2012’s TO THE WONDER had explored his time in Paris, as well as the former flames and complicated relationship dynamics that led to his current marriage— albeit heavily fictionalized and obscured through the veil of his lyrical, oblique aesthetic.

This allowed him to share the most intimate, personal details of his own life with his audiences, all while retaining his characteristic aura of enigmatic mystery. While TO THE WONDER didn’t quite perform to either critical or financial expectations, Malick nevertheless was compelled to say more to with this increasingly-experimental approach.

He turned his attentions to his time as a working screenwriter in Hollywood during the late 70’s, drawing from his experiences in the entertainment industry to fashion a story about success and wealth’s corrupting effect on one man’s soul, set against the hedonistic neon backdrop of modern-day Los Angeles.

Released to cinemas in 2015 under the title KNIGHT OF CUPS, Malick’s seventh feature film would continue his recent, polarizing strain of experimental dramas, and become his second entry in an ambitious triptych about restless exiles wandering an emotional desert in search of salvation or comfort.

KNIGHT OF CUPS marks Malick’s fourth consecutive collaboration with producing partner Sarah Green, who is joined by fellow producers Nicolas Gonda and Ken Kao in bringing the director’s ambitious and amorphous vision to the screen.

Indicative of the rumor mill that frequently churns around any given project of his, there are widespread accounts that KNIGHT OF CUPS had no working script to speak of.  To hear cinematographer Emmanuel “Chivo” Lubezki tell it, however, Malick did write a screenplay— albeit a 400-600 page behemoth that he actively encouraged his collaborators not to read.

If anything, the script was used by Malick alone as a deep well of inspiration from which to guide a totally improvisatory shoot, oftentimes dropping his actors into a location with no prep or direction, and simply reacting with his camera to the oblique dramatic alchemy that naturally occurred.

What results is a sprawling psychological adventure that paints Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and their surrounding deserts as a modern-day Babylon: a great, wealthy empire bursting at the seams with art and culture, and yet, perched perilously atop a cliff overlooking an abyss of vice and decadence.

In his second performance for Malick after THE NEW WORLD, Christian Bale anchors KNIGHT OF CUPS as Rick, a Hollywood screenwriter whose success enables a hollow lifestyle of excess and emotional detachment.

Malick molds Rick very much in the same vein as Ben Affleck’s Neil from TO THE WONDER— a lost soul wandering the landscape, often seen from behind; reacting more than acting, compulsively drawn to the fleeting surface pleasures of life even as his hushed inner monologue decries their emptiness.

Unlike most protagonists, Rick has no overarching goal; no clear objective to pursue.  In lieu of a conventional plot, Malick structures Rick’s story as a series of episodic vignettes, each one styled in the theme of a different tarot card and anchored by the several women in his life.

While one could be forgiven for assuming this conceit would play like a parade of sexual conquests, the actual effect is one of insightful illumination on Rick’s behalf. They may be defined by their relationship to Rick, but Malick makes abundantly clear that each figurehead has agency over her own destiny.

Their humanity makes Rick’s lack thereof all the more glaring. With her colorful punk stylings, Imogen Poots’ Della embodies the vitality and ideological purity of youth; she doesn’t pull any punches when it comes to conveying her disappointment in his moral failings.

Freida Pinto’s Helen holds a thriving and glamorous career as a model— one that is too busy for Rick to be anything more to her than a presence on the periphery.  As the conflicted mistress, Elizabeth, Natalie Portman shades a nuanced portrait of a married woman grappling with the ramifications — and consequences — of her infidelity.

Teresa Palmer’s Karen possesses an unquenchable zeal for life, finding fulfillment and empowerment in her hustle as a stripper. As Rick’s Palm Springs getaway companion, Isabel Lucas seems more connected to the elements than to him.

Then there’s Cate Blanchett as Nancy, Rick’s weary ex-wife.  Still living in the hillside home they used to share, her melancholy, passionate heart never stopped loving him even as their marriage collapsed to rubble. She is perhaps Rick’s only grounding to the real world outside of the entertainment industry’s glitz and glamor, using her God-given talents as a nurse to serve the city’s deformed and diseased population.

In addition to its comprehensive overview of Rick’s relationship to women, KNIGHT OF CUPS spends a great deal of time exploring his relationship to his family.  Towards this end, Malick draws from his own family history as he had done previously with THE TREE OF LIFE.

Whereas that earlier work dwelled on Malick’s relationship to his brother Larry and the emotional fallout from his untimely passing, KNIGHT OF CUPS focuses on the particular dynamic he shared with his other brother, Chris, particularly as survivors of that loss.  Wes Bentley plays Barry, a highly fictionalized version of Chris who still rages after the death of their other brother, driven to volatile outbursts and substance abuse.

He’s now clean, but his time on the streets of Skid Row has made him a compassionate advocate for those still caught up in the grips of addiction (a development that neatly parallels the real-life Chris’ founding of a residential treatment center in Tulsa, Oklahoma).

The seasoned character actor Brian Dennehy hobbles about the film as Rick and Barry’s father, Joseph— a stubborn old man, full of regret, seemingly always at odds with his surviving sons and stuck in a perpetual state of grief over their broken family.

Since his breakout success with BADLANDS, Malick has never had much of a problem attracting top-tier talent to his films; this leads to one of KNIGHT OF CUPS’ more-interesting peculiarities: the constant presence of highly-recognizable screen talent essentially parading around the frame as mere extras.

Most can be seen at a rowdy mansion party thrown by Antonio Banderas’ bacchanalian host, drawn to an open call for party attendees in the hopes of catching even the most fleeting of glimpses of the enigmatic filmmaker at work.

This sprawling sequence sees cameos from the likes of Joe Manganiello, Tom Lennon, Jason Clarke, Nick Kroll, and even Fabio, of all people. Still others, like Nick Offerman or Shea Whigham, make fleeting appearances in other sequences; minor background characters whose relationship to Rick is unclear but nevertheless serve to illuminate some small portion of Rick’s psyche.

KNIGHT OF CUPS’ visual presentation establishes itself as a continuation of the increasingly-abstract style set forth by TO THE WONDER, conveying Rick’s crisis of identity through a series of lyrical compositions and effervescent moments that evoke the nature of memory.

Malick and Lubezki’s ongoing collaboration has established a technical shorthand that had, at the time, sustained them through four consecutive projects.  Informally dubbed “The Dogma”, this list of visual guidelines gives the crew vital shape in an otherwise-improvisatory shoot.

That said, the nature of “The Dogma” is such that it can be routinely disregarded when the moment calls for it— after all, why bother to draw up a list of rules if you have no intention of breaking them?  

KNIGHT OF CUPS takes full advantage of this quirk, adopting an evocative blend of visual textures that include 35mm celluloid, digital GoPros, and the idiosyncratic Japanese toy camera that was previously used in TO THE WONDER.

These disparate elements mix together much better than they actually should, unified by a 2.35:1 aspect ratio and a consistent approach that favors the naturalism of magic hour, backlighting, and lens flares.

Also like TO THE WONDER, KNIGHT OF CUPS finds Malick and Lubezki subverting the conventional functions of wide lenses for narrative effect, employing them for close-ups to achieve a distorted, penetrative quality that nevertheless feels emotionally correct— as the edges of the frame curl back around us, it feels almost as if we are stepping beyond Rick’s personal space to intrude on his very thoughts.

A combination of handheld and steadicam-mounted movements continually find restless figures wandering blank, elemental landscapes like the desert, the ocean, or the city. A series of surreal narrative vignettes dealing with Rick’s father add a touch of impressionism to an otherwise-grounded flair, observing him washing his hands with blood, or delivering a cranky, rambling diatribe to an audience in a smoky theater.

The overall effect is one of effortless transition between objective reality and the evocative theatricality of Rick’s perception. As Malick’s films have increasingly transitioned from the past to contemporary timelines, the nature of his working relationship with his longtime production designer, Jack Fisk, has also evolved.

Whereby their collaborations from BADLANDS to THE TREE OF LIFE revolved around recreating a certain historical period or look, their efforts in TO THE WONDER onward require little in the way of such effort.  Instead, Fisk adapts and redresses existing locations so that Malick can shoot freely in any direction he chooses.

Befitting a narrative about the inherent emptiness of Tinseltown, Malick, Fisk, and Lubezki frame the contents of the image so as to highlight the constant visual impression of artifice.  Several vignettes find Rick wandering empty studio lots, taking in the fake facades and painted skies with only his agents and the occasional costumed extra to keep him company.

The same could be said of the opulent hilltop mansions filled with extravagant furnishings but devoid of people to use them, or even the entirety of Las Vegas itself— a glittering sprawl of plastic and silicone fakery masquerading as class and sophistication.

If Lubezki’s two-dimensional frame cannot physically penetrate the surface of Rick’s counterfeit lifestyle, then Malick’s signature approach to editing becomes the third-dimensional tool that can expose this artifice.

TO THE WONDER’s AJ Edwards, Keith Fraase and Mark Yoshikawa join newcomer Geoffrey Richman to imbue narrative meaning to the mountains of footage accumulated during production, stringing it all together with hushed, ruminative voiceovers delivered by Rick and others in Malik’s “multiple-streams of consciousness” style.

As if Lubezki’s achingly beautiful work wasn’t enough to work with, Malick’s editors also implement a variety of found footage like satellite shots of auroras over the Earth, or edgy black-and-white video installations from artists Quentin Jones, giving the film an added degree of grandeur and sophistication.

The episodic nature of the story lends itself to a series of intertitles structured around various tarot cards that imbue KNIGHT OF CUPS’ title with its narrative significance.  The film’s young composer, Hanan Townshend, reinforces this conceit with a subdued original score that deals in mysterious and mystical notes.

This being a Malick project, however, Townshend’s work takes a back seat to a selection of pre-recorded tracks from the classical and religious genres, in addition to a few garage-rock needledrops that infuse the soundtrack’s solemn grandeur with a punk edge that’s totally new to Malick’s artistic palette.

Wojciech Kilar’s “Exodus” becomes a recurring theme, its medieval flavor positioning Rick as some kind of noble knight on a quest or crusade for the ultimate artifact: a universal, spiritual truth that binds together all of creation in cosmic harmony.

As Malick’s second entry in his triptych of experimental tone poems, KNIGHT OF CUPS carves out similar thematic territory covered in TO THE WONDER and subsequently once more with 2017’s SONG TO SONG.

These themes — the loss of innocence, the spirituality of nature, and the built environment’s ability to alienate instead of shelter — also appear frequently throughout Malick’s previous films, but the Los Angeles setting of KNIGHT OF CUPS allows for particularly evocative twists on the formula.

Biblical allusions abound throughout Malick’s work, oftentimes framing his narratives with a Genesis-style template wherein his characters commit some mortal sin and are cast from the Garden to wander an existential desert.  KNIGHT OF CUPS, however, models its chronicle of innocence lost after the parable of the Prodigal Son.

The film loosely follows the trajectory of this biblical story, detailed in the Gospel of Luke as a cautionary tale about the perils of vice and temptation as enabled by wealth, ultimately ending with the man forced to return home penniless but nevertheless embraced by his father.

We are told that Rick is a screenwriter, and a successful one to boot, but Malick never shows him at work— beyond a few dispiriting encounters with his agents and a script doctoring session he spends staring out the window. This is an active, important decision on Malick’s part: to better convey how Rick has been undone by the side effects of his success.

Rather than find fulfillment in his writing, he seeks to fill his personal void with booze-soaked sex parties and aimless joy rides around town. Each Dionysian encounter seems to sucks more and more vitality from his frame, causing him to increasingly resemble the forgotten addicts on Skid Row that once seemed to be another planet apart from his world of excess.

Much like the story of The Prodigal Son is a parable for God’s unconditional love, Rick’s ultimate redemption lies in his return to a fostering and compassionate entity— namely, nature. One might think the story and setting of KNIGHT OF CUPS wouldn’t necessarily lend itself to Malick’s longtime exploration of spirituality and creation’s inherent divinity, but his artistic sensitivity to the flow of the world around him makes for unplanned — yet no less evocative — insights into mankind’s interaction with environments both natural and manmade.

Indeed, Rick can only seem to find himself when he gets away from the glare of urban life. Biblical allusions to “wandering the desert” aside, it’s no accident that the film’s conclusion occurs in Palm Springs— a starkly beautiful, minimalist landscape that offers a blank canvas for one’s reinvention.

Far removed from gridlocked traffic, smog, and light pollution, the desert offers not only clarity and peace, but also a kind of forgiveness or mercy.  Here, Rick can begin to imagine a different life for himself: a simpler, more fulfilling one where the pleasures of wealth and flesh are supplanted by the rapture of creation’s effervescent beauty.

A seemingly-random earthquake that happens early on in the film bookends this conceit, and while insurance companies might literally call it an “act of God”, its occurrence within the context of Malick’s spiritual meditations becomes KNIGHT OF CUPS’ de facto inciting event— a profound awakening that shakes Rick from his bacchanalian status quo.

Furthermore, Malick’s use of tarot card imagery and framing devices gives this spiritual character a mystical and exotic quality, enriching and diversifying a paradigm that otherwise draws primarily from Judeo-Christian iconography and traditions.

Like THE TREE OF LIFE and TO THE WONDER before it, Malick uses the architecture of his many locations to amplify Rick’s sense of detachment and alienation.  KNIGHT OF CUPS renders Los Angeles as a forest or jungle of imposing monoliths, their modern silhouettes beckoning toward a progressive future of ever-increasing human achievement.

And yet, they are also oppressive structures, blocking life-giving sunlight while continually reminding us of our cosmic insignificance.  Malick hammers home this sense of environmental hostility with frequent cutaway shots to distant planes and helicopters.

Deliberately evocative of the cutaways to wildlife in his previous work, these false birds are rendered in metal & gasoline instead of flesh & blood, dangling the promise of freedom even as their artificial makeup reinforces our own entrapment.

Even Rick’s spartan condo is a form of prison, eschewing the creature comforts of home in order to become the physical embodiment of his hollow lifestyle. It’s very telling that Malick includes a vignette of Rick coming home to find armed robbers rooting through his material possessions, only to leave with nothing but utter bewilderment when they decide there isn’t anything worth taking from this supposedly “wealthy” person.

Rick’s condo provides only his most essential need for shelter, signaling a profound failing to integrate himself more fully with his environment and ensuring his perpetual alienation from it.   After two long years in the editorial suite, Malick premiered KNIGHT OF CUPS in competition at the 2015 Berlin International Film Festival.

The film followed the general trajectory of TO THE WONDER’s reception, earning mixed reviews from critics and disappointing ticket sales from audiences.  It’s something of a miracle that the film even saw a release at all, given the fact that it was distributed by Broad Green Entertainment— an upstart outfit created by Hollywood outsiders and dedicated to the acquisition of risky arthouse films.

Now since shuttered, the company would release only a handful of films during its very short existence, two of them being Malick’s subsequent efforts, VOYAGE OF TIME and SONG TO SONG.  KNIGHT OF CUPS’ lackluster reception suggested that the polarizing nature of Malick’s increasingly-experimental aesthetic had seemingly reached the limits of audiences’ tolerance— his artistic vitality atrophying to diminishing returns.

Indeed, to hear some critics tell it, the “Malick Mystique” seemed dispelled entirely, replaced by that of an aging filmmaker turning to indulgent, pretentious curios with little if any relevance to contemporary cinema. What the naysayers could not see at the time, however, was that KNIGHT OF CUPS was only one part of a larger whole; one episode in a sprawling multi-part epic about the existential crisis of contemporary civilization.

That isn’t to say that the film holds no value on its own; in fact, KNIGHT OF CUPS stands as our clearest window yet into the “why” of Malick’s unique mission as an artist.  If Rick is a narrative stand-in for Malick (and he most definitely is), then Malick’s distaste for Hollywood and the studio system becomes immediately palpable.

In Rick, we might see Malick as he was in the late 70’s following DAYS OF HEAVEN’s success: still young and impressionable, on the verge of being co-opted by the commercial agenda of a massive studio machine. We can see someone who has been set emotionally adrift by his own success; someone who, at the peak of his talents, yearns to escape entirely.

In its own oblique way, KNIGHT OF CUPS gives us the “why” for Malick’s move to Paris and his subsequent two-decade hiatus.  At the same time, it also suggests an explanation for his dogged insistence on a polarizing artistic style— it gives Malick the energy to keep pushing, to keep exploring new realms of cinematic expression.

His is a dangerous quest; the further out he ventures, the higher his risk becomes. Malick’s artistic success comes with the very real possibility that he may never get to make another film again, and one day he may reach the great unknown regions of cinematic expression only to find that his luck has finally run out.

Until that day comes, his ability to create films like KNIGHT OF CUPS remains as something of a miracle. Malick’s career increasingly stands as a rebuke to the conventions of commercial filmmaking, helping us to realize that a century of effort has only begun to scratch the surface of cinema’s potential.


GUERLAIN: “MON GUERLAIN” COMMERCIAL (2017)

With the exception of his AFI short, LANTON MILLS (1969), director Terrence Malick has worked pretty much exclusively in the theatrical feature format, but his influence extends beyond them to music videos and commercials.

Fashion and luxury brands in particular turn to Malick’s style for inspiration in a bid to equate their products with high art. Perfume ads are notorious for this, routinely getting away with some beautiful images that just barely string together to form a coherent story (I’m looking at you, Dior).

Given his profound influence on the format, perhaps it’s surprising that Malick has never dabbled in advertising himself— or maybe we regard him with such an artistic pedigree that his theoretical involvement is literally inconceivable.

Thus explains the film community’s collective surprise when Malick unceremoniously released “MON GUERLAIN”, a 60 second ad for the fashion powerhouse’s eponymous perfume line.  The piece features Angelina Jolie in a loosely-defined narrative that, ironically enough, makes perfect sense when compared to most of the perfume ads out there.

Malick shoots Jolie listlessly wandering an elegant room with draping curtains or frolicking in sun-dappled fields of blossoming lavender, his camera lingering on evocative details like the sweep of her hair or the faded ink of a shoulder tattoo.

Set to the sweeping strings of Andy Quin’s “Awakening” (which was previously used by Malick in the trailer for TO THE WONDER (2012)), these images are cross-cut with those of a man sniffing Mon Guerlain perfume, suggesting the idea of sense memory as the various fragrances he detects prompts a corresponding vignette from Jolie.

Even in its scant sixty seconds of runtime, one can find plenty of examples bearing Malick’s aesthetic and thematic signatures.  The cinematography resembles that of his recent theatrical aesthetic, embodied by a restless, inquisitive camera.

Malick exposes primarily with backlighting, creating silhouettes and lens flares as he dwells on atmospheric details.  Malick’s fascination with architecture and the manner in which people inhabit space and the built environment also informs certain compositions like Jolie running her hand alongside a stone bannister, or elegantly descending a staircase.

While he admittedly tamps down on any impressions of spirituality, Malick nevertheless can’t help but capture Jolie’s rapture as she basks in life-giving sunlight, or the man’s marveling at how something as simple as a scent can conjure the ephemeral magic of memory.

Once a rarity, brands are increasingly accommodating of filmmakers’ particular styles— a move that naturally elevates the medium.  “MON GUERLAIN” is inarguably the result of Malick’s unique skill-set finding an appropriate product and a willing collaborator.

In the absence of any voiceover narration, the spot affords Malick the opportunity to develop his storytelling skills on a purely visual level.  It remains to be seen if Malick will continue this foray into the realm of advertising, so until a new project emerges, “MON GUERLAIN” will stand as a fascinating and evocative curio in his venerated filmography.


 SONG TO SONG (2017)

Since the emergence of his latter-day aesthetic with 1998’s THE THIN RED LINE, director Terrence Malick has seemingly pursued a relentless quest to discover the unknown edges of narrative and visual expression. This all-consuming adventure into the opaque inner mysteries of our shared existence promises untold revelations and philosophical riches– yet it stands to utterly destroy the adventurer in the process.

Once heralded as one of American cinema’s great visionaries, Malick’s recent experimental forays into nonlinear storytelling have seen his box office draw-power dwindle, his audience having splintered into various factions.

Judging by the near-universal praise of 2011’s THE TREE OF LIFE, Malick had seemingly found the perfect balance of his lyrical, expressionistic technique  — so structured as to evoke snapshots of memory, and convey the impression of a life lived beyond the confines of the film’s frame.

His subsequent efforts, however, have drawn exasperated criticism — if not outright hostility — for their ever-deeper incursions into abstract storytelling.  At the same time, Malick’s die-hard fans have only grown more ready to embrace his flagrant disregard for cinematic convention.

Indeed, in a landscape increasingly populated by compound superhero franchises and tenuously-linked cinematic “universes”, these fans are vehemently arguing that Malick’s work is more vital than ever.  It’s difficult to see the lay of the land from sea level; one must gain some kind of elevation to see the beautiful coherence of the earth’s chaotic topography.

The same could be said of Malick’s sequence of narrative features starting with 2012’s TO THE WONDER and culminating with 2017’s SONG TO SONG.  On their surface, these films seem to be little more than increasingly-opaque experimental dramas about the existential identity crises of their upper-to-middle class characters.

But taken as one unified work comprised of three distinct movements, these films take on added meaning, further evidencing humanity’s cosmic interconnectedness while shining a floodlight on a personal history that Malick had previously shrouded in secrecy.

To describe these films as “autobiographical” would be something of a misnomer— while Malick may certainly be drawing from his own life experiences here, the narrative proceedings are coated with the thick veneer of fiction.

These three films provide less of an insight into Malick’s past as they do the profound forces that shape his creativity.  To also call these three films a “trilogy” suggests they are connected together sequentially by plot, as if one sustained narrative thread was strung through them.

They are connected, but more so by theme and aesthetic rather than story.  A more accurate term might be “triptych”— a word borrowed from the fine art world to describe a set of three works meant to be appreciated together as a singular idea or expression.

As the sequence of TO THE WONDER, KNIGHT OF CUPS (2015) and SONG TO SONG doesn’t yet have a formalized name to bind them together, I’ll call it Malick’s “Freefall Triptych”, taken from what could almost be a throwaway line uttered by Michael Fassbender’s character in SONG TO SONG in justifying his casual nihilism: “it’s all freefall”.

Indeed, it’s hard to think of a better word to embody the tone of these works than “freefall”— the various characters seem to follow a uniform, downward-pointing arc in which they tumble into an existential void, desperately flailing for any kind of toehold in the form of vice’s fleeting and empty happiness.

As the culmination of his Freefall Triptych, Malick’s SONG TO SONG expectedly maximizes the movement’s core conceits, doubling down on the most evocative — and polarizing — aspects of his latter-day aesthetic.

Whereas TO THE WONDER drew from his self-imposed exile in Paris as well as his years in Oklahoma, and KNIGHT OF CUPS pulled from various episodes during his time as a Hollywood screenwriter, SONG TO SONG tackles a story set within the tumultuous music scene of Malick’s adopted hometown of Austin, Texas.

The film follows the template established by his previous two films, in which Malick foregoes a written script in favor of organic improvisation through the entirety of the shoot— a risky endeavor that nonetheless captures the spontaneity and vibrancy of life as it actively unfolds.

The subtle, expressionistic narrative that would emerge from this unconventional technique details the shifting passions and allegiances that swirl around a love quadrangle comprised of Ryan Gosling, Rooney Mara, Michael Fassbender, and Natalie Portman.

As a sensitive and soulful musician named BV, Gosling may seem the obvious candidate for the film’s key protagonist, but that honor arguably goes instead to Mara’s curious and sexually-volatile guitarist, Faye. They meet at a party hosted by Fassbender’s Cook — a wealthy music producer — and subsequently embark on a whirlwind romance across Austin (as well as a brief detour into Mexico).

Unbeknownst to BV, Faye and Cook have a sexual past and present of their own, actively conducting a secret relationship right under BV’s nose. Try as she might, Faye finds it difficult to swear off Cook entirely; his restless hedonism and casual, Lucifer-esque nihilism is irresistibly magnetic, drawing everyone into the oblivion of his dense orbit like a supermassive black hole.

For all his flaws, Cook receives an offer of redemption in the guise of Portman’s Rhonda, an ex-teacher who’s fallen on hard times and turned to waitressing at a diner to pay the bills. Portman presents Rhonda as a quietly devout woman from a lower-middle-class background, infusing her characterization with a melancholy aura.

She tries to keep an open mind about her new husband’s decadent lifestyle, growing increasingly despondent as Cook ventures down a path she can’t bring herself to follow. Malick surrounds these four with a sprawling ensemble cast that finds established names like Val Kilmer, Holly Hunter and Berenice Marlohe working alongside high-profile musicians playing themselves.

Cate Blanchett’s presence as Amanda, an elegant but emotionally-cold woman who briefly dates BV speaks to SONG TO SONG’s back-to-back shoot with KNIGHT OF CUPS — as does the casting of Christian Bale, whose part was ultimately cut from the finished film despite appearing prominently in widely-circulated set photos.

Singer/songwriter Lykke Li delivers the most substantial of performances from Malick’s collection of real-world musicians, playing an ex-girlfriend of BV’s who briefly re-enters his life during a rough patch with Faye.

Further cameos from recognizable acts like Patti Smith, Iggy Pop, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, The Black Lips, and Florence Welch lend SONG TO SONG an undeniable rock authenticity that enriches the film’s improvisatory energy.

Beginning with his regular producing team of Sarah Green, Nicolas Gonda, and Ken Kao, Malick retains the key collaborators that have made the distinct technical components of his Freefall Triptych so stylistically cohesive.

Since their first joint effort in 2005’s THE NEW WORLD, Malick’s partnership with cinematographer Emmanuel “Chivo” Lubezki has resulted in some of the most awe-inspiring images in recent cinematic memory.  SONG TO SONG — their fifth project together — marks the further refinement of their unique visual aesthetic towards its outermost reaches.

This includes the gleeful, if not reckless, mixing of 35mm film with a variety of video formats that run the gamut from high-end digital cinema cameras to iPhones.  There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to what format is used when, suggesting that Malick and Lubezki’s improvisatory approach compelled them to go with their gut and pick up whatever camera felt right for a given scene, rather than work from a predetermined technical dogma.

A 2.35:1 aspect ratio helps to unify these disparate, seemingly-incongruous formats, culminating in an impressionistic effect that evokes the multi-textured tapestry of memory. Beyond its pointing to Malick’s increasing interest in the volatile alchemy of various format combinations, this conceit also reinforces his idiosyncratic approach to coverage.

The restless camera rarely sits still to observe its subjects, preferring to duck and weave around on handheld and steadicam rigs like an aggressive ethereal spirit. Malick and Lubezki arrange other components of their shooting style to compensate for the organic chaos of their coverage approach, like the adoption of a sprawling depth of field and wide angle lenses that create a spherical distortion on the edge of the frame when utilized for close-ups.

Lubezki and returning production designer Jack Fisk work in tandem to create evocative environments for Malick’s characters to inhabit, comprised entirely of found locations that Fisk spartanly dresses to suggest a curated energy rather than one of lived-in authenticity.

There is a deliberate clash of architectural styles— home-y bungalows, cosmopolitan skyscrapers, and even ancient stone pyramids — their varying contours predetermining the listless flow of action within while allowing Malick to further explore the unique ways in which we inhabit and move through space.

SONG TO SONG finds the members of its central love quadrangle cavorting through these striking spaces in an improvised fashion, with the camera reacting to their spontaneous decisions rather than imposing a set path for them to follow.

Fisk’s dressing of said sets in a 360 degree fashion is invaluable towards this end, as is a lighting scheme that prioritizes available illumination— a free-floating camera would otherwise repeatedly capture film lights, destroying our suspension of disbelief.

This is arguably where Malick and Lubezki’s continued collaborations bear the most fruit, having developed a visual shorthand that employs backlighting so as to maintain continuity in the context of a fickle, fluctuating light source. The sun makes up for its volatile unreliability by offering a quality that electrical film lights can’t quite replicate— the dim, romantic glow of magic hour.

It’s become a common in-joke that Malick, like the common Instagrammer, can’t resist his sunsets, but their recurring presence throughout his filmography speaks to his unique ability to capture creation’s fleeting beauty and impermanence; his films feel alive in a way that others do not, each one containing a multitude of lifetimes that are experienced simultaneously.

Malick’s signature snapshot-style dramaturgy — executed in SONG TO SONG by a trusted editing team comprised of Rehman Nizar Ali, Hank Corbin, and Keith Fraase — reinforces this visual conceit, which can be described as “multiple lives lived as one”.

This stream-of-consciousness approach results in a dynamic, cosmic scale that is at once both unnervingly intimate and broadly communal; a churning brew of suggestive vignettes, jump cuts, and concise metaphorical imagery bonded together by oblique, lyrical voiceovers that effortlessly hop in and out of multiple perspectives.

Granted, Malick’s singular storytelling aesthetic doesn’t exactly facilitate a straightforward or undramatic post-production process. The first cut of SONG TO SONG was reportedly eight hours long, and the arduous process of cutting the picture down to size would subsequently drag itself out over the ensuing three years, forcing Malick to re-approach financiers for completion funds.

More so than any of his previous films, music plays an integral role in the overall fabric of SONG TO SONG — acting not just as an auditory backdrop to a story about the recording industry but also as a bridge between narrative beats that evoke Mara’s wistfully-voiced desire to live for the moment.

Malick has always used pre-recorded needledrops in his work, stretching back to BADLANDS’ use of Carl Orff’s “Gassenhauer”, but SONG TO SONG finds the director — for the first time in his career — foregoing an original score in favor of a musical landscape comprised entirely of sourced cues.

Said tracks span a wide range of musical genres and traditions, combining the indie rock and EDM characteristic of Austin’s music scene with Malick’s personal taste for vintage rockabilly, gospel hymnals and classical cues like Camille Saint-Saens’ “Danse Macabre” or Zbigniew Preisner’s “From The Abyss”.

Beyond Lykke Li’s cameo performance, her breakout track “I Know Places” gives a key passage a heavy melancholic presence that reflects the characters’ sense of self-alienation.

Befitting its place as the capper to Malick’s “Freefall Triptych”, SONG TO SONG plumbs the same thematic territory as TO THE WONDER and KNIGHT OF CUPS— indeed, the same artistic ideas and values that Malick has explored in all his work.

This is not to say that SONG TO SONG’s thematic subtext is stale, or even inert.  The beauty of his expressive visual aesthetic means that even though he may be technically saying the same thing, he has an infinite amount of ways to say it.

As such, SONG TO SONG puts its own fierce spin on Malick’s brooding meditations, infusing them with the reckless passions of youth.  The least overtly-religious of all his films, SONG TO SONG nevertheless finds Malick’s characters reveling in the purity and unconditional mercy of creation.

With the exception of a short sequence where BV comes across a quaint church in the Mexican countryside, it is the natural world that serves as their house of worship.  Whereas TO THE WONDER’s Oklahoma was almost entirely agrarian, and KNIGHT OF CUPS’ California was almost entirely urban, SONG TO SONG’s Austin rests squarely in the convergence of these two realms.

The boundaries between the two are frequently blurred— indeed, most of the film’s chosen locations seem to deliberately emphasize a manmade structure’s attempts to incorporate the exterior world into its design.  Infinity pools lap up against the ocean horizon; a huge glass facade essentially turns the grass lawn beyond into another room; a condo in a high-rise tower allows its occupants to quite literally live amidst the clouds.

It’s no coincidence that most of these locales belong to Fassbender’s Cook, who seems to have no less than three houses scattered across the city. Despite projecting an outward veneer of extreme confidence, Cook’s seeming inability to choose between the rural and industrial worlds robs him of a genuine identity.

There is no internal conflict like there is for BV or Faye— just a crushing void that he attempts to fill with the fleeting pleasures of sex, drugs, and alcohol.  A literal black hole of vice and internal decay, Cook’s dense gravity threatens to stripmine the innocence of those caught in his orbit.

To associate with him is to make a deal with the devil — he can make you the next rock star, but it may very well cost you your soul. Naturally, BV, Faye, and Rhonda come to be caught up in his swirling, lustful vortex, begetting personal crucibles of their own.

Each experiences a Malickian loss of innocence tailored to their own specific archetypical identities: idealism being BV’s, sexuality being Faye’s, and loyalty being Rhonda’s. BV’s idealism drives his pursuit of a music career, and what initially appears to be a promising association with Cook leads to a friction-causing disillusion that will cause him to second-guess his aspirations.

Faye’s fluid sexuality enables a kind of personal liberty that’s driven by a genuine passion for life, but Cook’s refusal to honor the purity of her relationship to BV decays her sense of self, constricting her freedoms while muddling her ideals.

Rhonda’s loyalty to family — evidenced by her close relationship with her mother — revels in its black-and-white simplicity; Cook’s devious ability to persuade and tempt those in his orbit convinces her to indulge her new husband’s insatiable sexual desires in the name of personal growth and experimentation.

However, her roots as a down-home Texas girl who loves her family and her God means that she isn’t emotionally equipped for Cook’s nihilistic carnival of the flesh, and the loss of her personal innocence results in an ideological unmooring with cataclysmic repercussions.

If critics tend to deride SONG TO SONG’s continued exploration of a small set of themes (and many certainly do), they cannot deny the surprising personal growth on the part of Malick’s artistic character.  For decades, the enigmatic filmmaker had cultivated a reclusive reputation, declining to do interviews with press or make public appearances in support of his work.

Up until recently, he had been the very definition of letting “the work speak for itself”.  Imagine the film world’s surprise, then, when Malick himself showed up to partake in a post-screening interview after SONG TO SONG’s world premiere at South By Southwest.

It’s difficult to understate just how earth-shaking a development this was for the cinema community— the myth had revealed himself to be a man after all; flesh-and-blood, small, insignificant.  Like the rest of us.

It remains to be seen whether Malick will maintain this level of visibility going forward; indeed, the surprise appearance was likely orchestrated by now-defunct distributor Broadgreen Entertainment in the hopes that his presence on the press circuit would gin up what otherwise promised to be a lackluster box office haul.

Its dismal financial performance and extremely-mixed critical reception seem to position SONG TO SONG as the nadir of Malick’s venerated filmography; the latest example of his radically-experimental aesthetic’s diminishing returns.

To those who actually sought out the film in theaters to make their own assessment, there seemed to be a general consensus that, for better or worse, Malick had reached the zenith of his experimental pursuits.  He had so plumbed the outer reaches of cinematic expression, it appeared there was very little left to discover.

That isn’t to say that SONG TO SONG has a passionate audience of its own.  To those who find a particular resonance within Malick’s latter-day frequency, the film is a compelling foray into the interior unknown and the mysteries of passion; its finger locked on the pulse of hipster cool thanks to its depiction of festival culture and its Austinite backdrop.

The film’s artistic value only deepens when considering its context as the conclusion to Malick’s Freefall Triptych; its mere existence serves to deepen and enrich the poeticism of TO THE WONDER and KNIGHT OF CUPS.  The reverse is also true.

I wrote before that to call these three films a “trilogy” suggests a linear or sequential ordering, but that’s not quite the effect that Malick seems to be after.  Just like the red, green, and blue channels of video combine to form a full-color electronic image, so too can the individual entries of the Freefall Triptych be overlaid on top of each other to form a greater picture of the cosmic interconnectedness of the modern human experience; their overlapping themes and contrasting settings serving to render a fuller image of their enigmatic creator.

With TO THE WONDER, KNIGHT OF CUPS, and now SONG TO SONG, Malick has seemingly created a new form of cinematic autobiography— oblique… lyrical… authentic in emotion (if not experience).  The more abstract his expression becomes, the more generous Malick is in revealing his most intimate self.

These films, if nothing else, are a precious gift to cinema from one of its most reclusive, crucial and influential voices; their very existence nothing short of a miracle.


“TOGETHER” VR EXPERIENCE (2018)

As a medium, virtual reality has primarily been the domain of tech-savvy, youth-oriented marketing outfits— advertisers saw an opportunity to define the contours of entertainment’s future, and they eagerly dove in with a wave of branded content that revolutionized the concept of “immersive” video.

Of its various genres and sub-formats, 360 degree video — video that fixes the viewer in one spot will enabling a full sphere of surrounding image — has emerged as the gateway into the wider VR world. Most audiences are already able to experience 360 video in-browser, with no need to purchase and plug into an expensive, admittedly-unwieldy headset.

This cottage industry has bloomed overnight, with nearly every major brand dipping their toe into the VR pool in one capacity or another.  Despite this newfound potential to redefine interactive storytelling, VR has managed to attract scant few filmmakers of the orthodox cinematic tradition.

Indeed, the format is somewhat antithetical to a director’s natural instincts, forcing him or her to construct a story without imposing a predetermined field of view, doing away with the notion of composed “shots” altogether.

Leave it to director Terrence Malick to be one of the earliest high-profile filmmakers to embrace the format’s innovative promise. After the completion of 2017’s SONG TO SONG, Malick partnered with The Factory, Facebook’s in-house creative studio, to develop a 360 virtual experience called “TOGETHER”.

The five-minute piece is rather simple, conceptually, yet abstract enough to foster multitudes of interpretation. Malick’s digital camera, operated by Oscar-nominated cinematographer Rodrigo Prieto, tracks gently along the image’s z-axis as it oversees performance artists Jon Boogz and Lil Buck engaged in an interpretative dance about the physical and emotional walls that prevent human connection.

The environment is a dark soundstage populated with a series of billowing, free-standing curtains, upon which several elemental images of creation and nature are projected. Complete with a swelling orchestral accompaniment, TOGETHER plays something like a live stage adaptation of his 2016 IMAX documentary, VOYAGE OF TIME — a notion that’s hammered home by Malick’s ending on the image of a glowing galaxy hanging overhead, reminding us that, despite our many differences, we are all made of stardust.

Malick’s involvement no doubt served to elevate TOGETHER’s profile beyond that of a branded technological demo, disrupting VR’s distribution and exhibition precedents in the process by landing screenings at South By Southwest, Tribeca, and several other film festivals around the world.

As of this writing, Malick is set to delve deeper into VR’s uncharted territory with a project called “EVOLVER”, in which he’ll team up with composer and Radiohead guitarist Jonny Greenwood to explore “the lifespan of the human condition”.

Until then, TOGETHER stands as Malick’s latest entry in a string of works that seek to distill cinema to its visual essence, so as to reconstruct it in a form factor that will carry a century-old medium well into its second.


GOOGLE: “PIXEL 3” COMMERCIAL (2018)

When director Terrence Malick’s commercial for Mon Guerlain fragrance arrived in 2017, many were quite surprised that the venerated, almost-mythic filmmaker could (and would) stoop to a supposedly “lower” format such as advertising.

Its very existence seemed antithetical to Malick’s artistic creed— a product generated for the benefit of a corporate entity, rather than a sincere expression of the human experience from a singular individual. Take another look, however, and the similarities between Malick’s experimental, ephemeral aesthetic and the fleeting nature of the commercial format become rather abundant.

Indeed, a cursory glance at the contemporary commercial landscape yields no shortage of work that wears Malick’s profound aesthetic influence on its sleeve; he fits into this world far better than he — or anyone else for that matter — could have ever predicted.

The debut of his 2018 spot for Google’s “PIXEL 3” smartphone came as quite a surprise to everyone, dropping with zero build-up or preceding fanfare.  The piece tasks Malick with replicating his latter-day filmmaking approach, albeit exclusively through the use of the Pixel 3’s video capabilities.

Malick is no stranger to this technology, having incorporated snippets of smartphone and GoPro video into his recent features— the rapid-fire advancements in resolution and clarity continuing to blur what was once a stark dividing line between the mobile format and 35mm celluloid.

The piece foregoes a conventional narrative in favor of letting Malick run wild through a cascading wave of visual vignettes, in the process capturing nothing less than the joyful exuberance of life itself. The bright, saturated colors from the Pixel 3’s sensor paint a vibrant picture as Malick’s camera (well, phone) wanders restlessly around a multitude of moments oriented towards the ephemeral pleasures of childhood.

The quirky electronic soundtrack reinforces this idea of childlike awe at the surrounding world, rendered through Malick’s signature use of natural light (especially the dim glow of magic hour).

Funnily enough, the juxtaposition of Malick’s artistic eye with the burgeoning field of smartphone video illustrates just how much the medium has yet to grow before it can truly match celluloid film, digital cinema formats like Red or Arri, or even basic DSLR capabilities.

Speaking on a purely technical level, there’s a distinct chunkiness to the image, with a compressed spectrum of contrast and color thanks to a latitude that simply can’t match the aforementioned cameras. There’s also what I can only describe as a digital “flimsiness” to the image, which to my eyes appears to be rooted in the smartphone shutter.

The consumer-quality pedigree of the format has an anonymizing effect on Malick’s presence, despite the director’s singularly curious eye informing every setup. The effect is not unlike that of an amateur filmmaker who voraciously devoured Malick’s filmography in and then set out to make his or her own version of a “Malick” movie with a smartphone.

Of course, that very well may be the point of the entire exercise— with the Pixel 3 in their pocket (or any other 4K video-capable smartphone on the market, really) anyone can make beautiful cinematic images.  If one so desires, the power to become the next Malick literally lies within arm’s reach.

In this context, Malick’s “PIXEL 3” spot slides in rather effortlessly into this portion of his career: a phase that has seen the celebrated director actively dismantle the mythic aura he had constructed around himself in order to become more accessible, more intimate, and more human.


Author Cameron Beyl is the creator of The Directors Series and an award-winning filmmaker of narrative features, shorts, and music videos.  His work has screened at numerous film festivals and museums, in addition to being featured on tastemaking online media platforms like Vice Creators Project, Slate, Popular Mechanics and Indiewire. To see more of Cameron’s work – go to directorsseries.net.

THE DIRECTORS SERIES is an educational collection of video and text essays by filmmaker Cameron Beyl exploring the works of contemporary and classic film directors. ——>Watch the Directors Series Here <———

 

IFH 612: My Film Made Millions Using the Filmtrepreneur Method with Mark Toia

So insane and talent Australian filmmaker Mark Toia is back to tell us how he made millions of dollars self distributing his remarkable debut film Monsters of Man. After getting offered bad and predatory distribution deals he wondered if there was another way. Enter my book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur: How to Turn Your Film into a Money Making Business. 

When I wrote my book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur I hoped it would help filmmakers around the world. I never thought that a filmmaker halfway around the world would read it and change his entire marketing and distribution plan for his million-dollar+ indie film.

After reading Rise of the Filmtrepreneur he reached out to tell me what he was thinking of doing. He was planning on self-distributing his film as an experiment to see if he could do it and also to prove to filmmakers around the world that you can get a great ROI (Return on Investment) on a million-dollar+ indie film without any major bankable stars.

I asked him,

“So a million-dollar Filmtrepreneur experiment?”

Mark said yes. He had already been offered multiple seven-figure deals from distributors but after looking at the convoluted fine print of the distribution contracts he decided to opt out. The payment schedules were so insane it would take Mark forever to get any money at all. The traditional film distribution path was not designed to help him get paid and if a film like Monsters of Man is having these issues the system is most definitely broken.

Then he discovered my book and down the Filmtrepreneur rabbit hole, he went. When I saw the trailer for the first time I almost fell out of my chair. I recently had the pleasure of watching the film and all I can say is:

“Monsters of Man is one of the BEST films I’ve seen in 2020. A must watch!”

In this conversation Mark is completely transparent on how he made millions with his film. He also reveals not only his successes but also some failures he dealt with along the way. This is truly a one in a decade indie film experiment that you now have access to see how it was done.

Enjoy my conversation with Mark Toia.

Here’s the synopsis of Monsters of Man:

A robotics company teams up with a corrupt CIA agent trying to position themselves to win a lucrative military contract. They illegally airdrop 4 prototype robots into the middle of the infamous Golden triangle to perform a live field test on unsuspecting drug lords that the world will never miss. Volunteer doctors witness the murder of a village and become the targets.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Mark Toia 0:00
I just wanted to know how the distribution process worked. I wanted to know how you get your movies into transactional Video on Demand sites. I wanted to know how s VOD worked. I wanted to know how a VOD worked. I want to know how the theatrical machine work that you know the the business of making money in these four different areas.

Alex Ferrari 0:23
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur how to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com. I'd like to welcome back to the show returning champion, Mark Toia. How you doing Mark. How you doing my friend?

Mark Toia 0:44
Yeah, good good.

Alex Ferrari 0:46
Thank you so much. Thanks so much for coming back on the show, man, your episode, Episode 407 has been a while we're over 600 now. So it's been a it's been a it's been a few years since we spoken on. You've been on the show. We've been talking on and off all that time. But you you came on and? And? Well, let's just start from the beginning. Can you just recap everybody and let everybody know how you got into the business really quickly what you do for a living day to day.

Mark Toia 1:16
One where I got into the business hobby, complete hobby that went crazy. There was a I was a boilermaker a young Boiler Maker and people didn't know what a boiler maker is we're pretty much people that make anything out of steel. You know, whether it's skyscrapers or a steel box for someone's back or someone's car, you know, who knows it also anything made of steel. So that's what I used to do as a trade. But I was a child artist when I was young, I could paint real life oils when I was like 13 years old. So I had did have a bit of a gifted hand when I was a young fellow and and I could draw anything and I could do my own storyboards if I want all that sort of stuff so but I mean the anyway, the hobby went crazy. Picked up a car stills camera. This is cool, had a bit of fun with that. And sent a photograph off to a magazine company, not thinking they were paid you I had no idea that they paid you. But they sent me a check for $50 and my mind exploded I literally stared at that check for like a day all day going holy fuck they pay you or sorry, the minister. And then I thought should I'm gonna do more of this. And I said some more photographs offer more magazines and a bit. I think two or $200 turned up the next month and I went oh goodness. It's almost paid my week's wages. It just kept having fun. Doing so cool. And then I went completely psycho photographer didn't know what I was doing. And went into the magazine world learned all the hassles tripped over my face a few times. went nuts and all sudden I had a career in photography that was so fast. It was funny because back in those days shooting film, in a maybe it was a bit harder. Running around like an idiot with big lenses was harder, I don't know or easier. I have no idea. But anyway, it took off. And I turned to magazines chase me. And then I used to work for a company called Reuters. We're not work but more is what they call a stringer. And that was good during the former ones and the background praise and world gymnastics, indexing us doing news events and all that. Anyway, I started get bored of that. And I got into advertising, photography, which was a complete loss of income because because I had no idea what the hell I was doing in the advertising world. No one wanted to hire me because I was a complete nobody. It was a very, very hard industry to get into. And you know, a couple of people gave me a couple of jobs that are a bit more action focused, which was pretty good at at the time doing a lot of sport, you know, for the for the newspapers and the magazines. And then someone else noticed and someone else noticed. And after a lot of persistence and a lot of walk around town knocking on doors. I managed to get my advertising career going. I said I'd built this big, obnoxious studio, like massive you can pack trucks in it. And then that everyone said I wasn't crazy, and I was gonna lose all my money. And anyway, it was the other way it took off. And I was the busiest photographer in town. During that I had one of my clients say, coming in whinging about a TV commercial he had made and he showed me that was a pretty basic and he had paid $300,000 for it. This is I'm talking probably 25 years ago. Oh, yeah. And you know, 300 grand back then is a little money, right? And anyway, he was not happy. And I said, I'd love to do a TV ad one day, and he looked at me and he says, Have you ever done one? And I said, Well, I did this video for a friend of mine. But it was very, it wasn't like a helicopter one. He loved it. It says, Well, I've got, you know, like, I think was 25 grand left over. I said, deal. No, go for this. Have fun with it, see if you can do better than this thing. And anyway, we did, and put it together in the most naive way possible, completely. completely naive. I mean, I couldn't believe how naive I wasn't how knowledgeable I was in making TV commercials. Anyway, we did it. We went through a company good, you know, like a post house could focus, I think it was cutting edge or something. And then it was back in the early days. And they helped me edit it together and put together anyway, I won. I went I entered it in the local industry awards that I won Best Director and Best cinematographer. And

Alex Ferrari 6:03
As best as they say, is history. You've done okay for yourself as a commercial director you've made if you just went to your site, right before this conversation, I just let me check about what like Oh, is that Kobe? Yeah, that's Kobe. So he's, you've done okay for yourself as a commercial director, and, and then you had this insane idea that, like I was gonna make a movie. And you made this little mini game, many, many years later, or for fast forwarding a lot. But many years later, you decided to make a little independent film called monsters of man. And and if I'm not mistaken, the budget was a million dollars or so. And you decided to finance that yourself? Is that correct?

Mark Toia 6:40
Yeah, well, it might have been a touch less with the current fluctuation of the US to Australian dollar, but

Alex Ferrari 6:45
Give or take something like that. So So then, and that movie came on, when you reached out to me, the movie had already I think was already done. And you were trying to figure out this whole? How do I make money with this thing? concept? And how did you come across my book, Rise of the Filmtrepreneur?

Mark Toia 7:05
Well, with what I remember, I just literally broken three ribs speaking and I was and I decided I was off. Because I was going to we've shot the movie. And I was editing it under pain.

Alex Ferrari 7:22
As filmmakers do by the way, we all ended under pain.

Mark Toia 7:26
I was sitting there and other back and I'm not doing anything. Now I've got three broken ribs. So I just sat there just started editing the movie. And I wasn't going to I was actually going to give it to an editor friend of mine. But this was a little bit of therapy, while just it was stuck up in the up in the snowy mountains. Doing nothing. I couldn't see us as looking out the window crying every day. So start editing the movie. And I got into it so fast. I mean, I love editing anyway, it's just a thing. I've been doing it for 20 years. I just didn't feel like editing a movie. And I never done one before. And yeah, that's right. I was sitting there and I was scouring the internet. Our side knows so sorry. It's a couple of years ago, Alex, I've got to get my gotta get No, it wasn't listen. All right now we were we were in in the middle of the hole. Selling the movie thing. That's right. Right. Right. It was no actually it was just before that. Anyway, it was in that time. It was in that time. And yes, I stumbled over your podcasts and your then your videos and I started watching this thing. This guy seems pretty much a disrupter of the world and a bit of a troublemaker Alan Howard is a type of guy. Wonder who this Alex Ferrari is. So anyway, that's why I reached out to you. Yes. And I sent you the trailer of a movie that was sort of being finished at the time.

Alex Ferrari 9:00
Right and when you send me the trailer and by the way, I get sent trailers daily by filmmakers from around the world wanting me to come on the show or talk to me or get a consult the god consultation. And when your trailer came in, I was like, Oh, when I saw the review, like the description of like, a bunch of robots get thrown in a jungle. This is gonna be horrendous, like who's gonna? What a horrible because you just think you like the graphics are going to be horrible, the V effects are not going to be good. And I turned this trailer on and this trailer turns on and I'm like, my mouth is on the floor. The visual effects are as good if not better than Marvel films. And the action is really dumb. Like who the hell is Mark Toya like, Who the hell are it's like I like reached right back out dude. Like, yeah, let's get on a call. Man. I want to talk to you like how the hell did this get done? And that's when the conversation started. And I'm not sure did you read the book at that point prior or after that conversation? But no one.

Mark Toia 9:55
I didn't know that the book existed until you until we spoke you said you were Do this book and other I'm reading it right. So you pick it up right away. I ebook that. Sorry, because I don't like reading. But I read scripts, that's about all I read, but I audio books. And yeah, I've got a little coffee shop that the writer literally just, it just was in my ear, and it was fantastic. I mean, it was so fantastic. And, you know, you and you were bang into like, you know, you're making sure no one forgot the message, right? I get fucking ripped off. Don't do this. Don't do that. Don't do that, you know, three chapters later, yeah, like at fucking remember, do the beat the drum heart? Yeah, that's fine. I'm in the drum beating. You know, I talked to my kids. And then I saw had all this poison in my brain that you poisoned me with some real world shit, you know. And then I'm at the moment and at that time, we were suffering our film through a traditional sales pipeline. You know, it was going through CIA, and other people, whatever ad in there wasn't working. And the contracts that were coming through were, were questionable. And.

Alex Ferrari 11:24
But you're serious offers, though you have a million dollar offer.

Mark Toia 11:29
It was 5 million there. And a million over there that, you know, it was all it was all happening. But I just thought, I thought it wasn't so much a bit the sound of the movie, because my wife and I thought if we throw them the million dollars in the bin, whatever it's going to be, we'll use it as a calling card, which and that's another story of off the back of this, which we'll be talking about later. But we'll just use it as a bit of a marketing tool for for me, there's like a show reel, to sell myself with the Hollywood. If we if we don't make any money on it, we're not going to lose sleep over it, right? Because I've been working very hard last 20 years in this game. My wife's a very avid property girl, a woman and she's, and between her and I are we do? Okay. You don't I mean, we did quite a lot. So I'm not going to say it was the ultimate experiment, really.

Alex Ferrari 12:25
By the way, that's a show you might I have to talk about myself, that conversation. So then you know, we're going back and forth over over Skype at the time. So we're going back and forth. And, and then you said, I think I'm just gonna, I'm gonna read your book, man, it's great, I love it. You gave me all sorts of ideas. I think I'm just going to release this myself. And I'm going to use a lot of the things in the book to help me do it. And I'm like, you're going to release a million dollar, you're going to self distribute. And now anybody else, anybody else that would have told me that I would have, I would advise the guests because to self distribute a million dollar product is you got to know. So you got to hit that target, not once, not twice, but like 40 or 50 times, Bullseye to break even. That's from my experience, because it depends on the kind of product but then I saw it but you've got a different kind of movie, you have an anomaly of a movie because there's movie your movie monsters, a man doesn't come along. I've seen it once in my life, a film like that, at that level of quality. And then your marketing savvy your understanding of the year this whole situation is so lottery ticket esque is an example of this. It's just an it's an anomaly without question. But then I'm like, if you're willing to do it, well, you want to come on the show and talk about it. You're like, Sure, come on. So you came on the show we talked about I'm like, You're gonna do a million dollar experiment. And when you're done in a couple years, come back on and tell us how it goes. He goes out and you said and you said I'll come on if I make money or if I don't make money, I want everybody to know what happened. So

Mark Toia 14:01
That was fair. That was fair. And I wanted to I wanted people to either learn by my members, my mistakes, and I made some mistakes during the process. Whether it was gonna be the traditional method or the or the maverick fucking crazy man direction, there's mistakes in both. Right and, and that's what we're here today. Well, let's let's talk about that stuff and just say why it worked, how it could have worked even better. And how what you know, now that the future is yeah, that two years have elapsed since we released it. What could I have done better? And now this is the valuable lessons that only doing what I did has taught me if I just dumped it on the in the district in with a distributor and let them go I would learn nothing. Right.

Alex Ferrari 14:56
And you would have probably made nothing.

Mark Toia 14:58
Now look, I would have got Thank you You know that people were still dumping money on me, I was still made money, but I wouldn't have made as probably as much, right. But I've been doing a lot of work as well. So the thing is distributors that sell your movie do a lot of work, they should get paid. So it's not like the supplying of factors or ripoff service that not that doing what your lazy ass ain't gonna do.

Alex Ferrari 15:24
And by the way, in the book in the book, I say that, like what I'm talking about in this book is work. Like, I never want to get it and

Mark Toia 15:33
I did a lot of it, Alex, right. Crazy. It's fun, it's fun. I said, this is really fucking good fun. I'm really enjoying it. And I'm doing, you know, all our casting on our trailers, marketing profiles, all of our online media, advertising. And mind you, I'm from an advertising agency, I'm not an agency. I don't own an agency. Sorry. But I work with 1000s of ad agencies around the world. I've worked with the best of the best of the best of the best, right? And so that without realizing it taught me so much about advertising, right, you know, you've been doing right down to the little tiny social media type shit. I mean, right.

Alex Ferrari 16:13
You pick up things. I mean, I edited. I mean, I don't hundreds of commercials and promos over the course of my career. And I picked up a couple things along the way working with you just, you just start picking up a couple things here and there. All right. So but the one thing I did get offered, you got all multimillion dollar offers from real studios, not Mickey Mouse studios, real studios. And yet, you decided to just walk away from them, because you're just like, you know, these deals, it's gonna take me forever to get paid. It's shady, there's a lot of outs and ends and it looks like I'm not able to.

Mark Toia 16:48
Yeah, look, the deals are an open book. The one deal was just a million bucks. You know what I mean?

Alex Ferrari 16:57
But, but not, but not, like, right now, they're not gonna just write you a check right now for it right,

Mark Toia 17:02
No you would have been jumping hurdles, and fucking, you know, some guy in their office would go, there's a guy that's 150 feet down the street, we need his release form, or we're not going to pay you, you know, this or that. Or, you know, there'll be some, everyone I know, that have gone through a lot of these deals with these big distributors at jumping hoops for 12 months. And then and I still talked to them. Now, one guy's been still waiting two years. The movies been out since a movie is out. And they got I know, we still need all this paperwork done. Because it's in the contract. We still need all this, this little thing done here. And it's so minimal. No one gives a shit. Yeah, it's just a way for them to hold on that they're using it as a loophole to not pay him. And they probably will pay him but that's just the machine.

Alex Ferrari 17:50
It'd be five years, it could be five years down the line. It's yeah, I've seen I've heard these stories. It's ridiculous.

Mark Toia 17:56
You know, when you do those sales, you are literally handing your baby over, you will never see it again. You'll see it in 10 or 15 years time when the contracts done relative to the rate of everything that it is.

Alex Ferrari 18:12
Alright, so what was the first so from my remember, from my recollection, the first thing you did is started to do your own theater, like you're on theatrical in Australia.

Mark Toia 18:23
That's cool. Well, we we released during COVID. And everyone said, Mark, you're mad. You're crazy. Don't do it. You know, don't ever make

Alex Ferrari 18:31
But you had it. But you had a screening. You had a screen. I remember you had a big screening.

Mark Toia 18:34
You know, I thought, you know, I've got a lot of friends here in town and and we just send everyone an email, they want to come and check out the movie and Everyone's curious. So 500 people turned up, but the ones that did it in IMAX because I do everything, as you know, and RED cameras. So we've got a Fourcade movie. So let's go to the IMAX theater, let's do it properly. And the theater was massive. It was like

Alex Ferrari 19:00
So this is the thing that I love about what you did. You did a it was a free screening, by the way, right? Yeah, it was a free screening for France. Right? Okay. Yep. So the brilliance of what you did is that you filmed everyone's reactions coming out. So it made the film look like it would had a theatrical release. You are in a real theater with like posters in the background. And you filmed all this and then that's what you used in your ads. And it was so powerful in your marketing. So even though you might have not made money on that screening, you got so much free marketing materials to be able to sell your movie on T VOD, SVOD and Avon. Is that Is that a fair statement?

Mark Toia 19:39
Yeah, well, we weren't even going to do it. There was a young young guy said hey, you got to do like a behind this. You know, like a you got to film the movie. And I just want everyone to enjoy it. Anyways, and I'll get me and my friends will cover more shoot it and go nuts. You don't I mean, so anyway, signal the stuff and I went actually I could probably use this for bid a PR. And yeah, it was some PR. And it honestly was the last thing on my mind. To be honest, I

Alex Ferrari 20:08
It was serendipitous. It was serendipitous. It was a look. So I can't You're not taking credit for it I'm trying to give you credit for you're not taking credit for it. But it is what it is. It is because you were able to get it. So sometimes, you know, sometimes the Muse sometimes the universe just gives you a little bit of a helping hand. And that was that was one of them. Because I remember that when I saw

Mark Toia 20:29
Good advertising.

Alex Ferrari 20:30
And I remember when I was seeing your ads, I'm like, Man, those ads are powerful as hell, man. Because anytime you've got testimonials, like the ones you had many, they're very, very, very bad, especially if coming from a movie without any major giant mat, you know, massive bankable stars in it. You know, McKenna is wonderful, but he's not Tom Cruise. So you don't have that and coming from a first time filmmaker, quote, unquote, they really added a lot of value to it. Alright, so what was the release? So how did you release this the first time? You want to VOD first right? Transaction?

Mark Toia 21:00
Um, yeah. Yeah, we just went full TVOD. And yeah, we dropped it on Apple, Amazon all the normal dudes and but actually, I think let's, let's get a little bit more detailed for your, for your listeners, viewers. The movie is done. Right? We've made the movie. And I'm getting a lot of people ringing me up gown ads too fucking long. And it's too that you know that the LT long thing? And you know what, fuck it I'm leaving. It's only two hours, right? It's not.

Alex Ferrari 21:34
It's, it's not a three. It's not.

Mark Toia 21:38
And the other thing too is people will sit there and binge watch a fucking 10 hours of sit on Netflix and completely padded out show without dropping of dropping a single whinge about it. But they don't know. I'm not. And you know what, I did a 90 minute cut? I did. And it was it was it was not. You know, it was over to quick, me when I showed that go, oh, well, it's sort of like, you know, the Romans start attacking them. And then they're at the river and morale, you don't remember, they're escaped it, because you had to get rid of a lot of stuff. 30 minutes is a lot of very exciting material. So that's why I went Screw it. I don't care about 90 minutes. I'm not really that worried about making money on that. It's nice to get your money back, which is great. But I had bigger agenda with the film. And the bigger agenda wasn't so much making money for movie, it was just getting my name out there. So just remember that going in. The part of the experiment was exactly what it's doing now. So I'm gonna get all my, I'm gonna get even more money back by doing all these other big movies that these people are telling me I'm gonna get another story again, so we'll get to that later. Anyway, so then I decided after the, after I've turned down these offers, you know, from the traditional domains. And literally, that's when everyone thought, this guy that ends this movie is a fucking complete loony didn't mean, all these sales guys were just

Alex Ferrari 23:25
I thought that you were crazy Mark.

Mark Toia 23:30
Everyone thought I was crazy. And they don't want it because it's part of the experiment. The experiment was knowledge. And I just wanted to know how the distribution process worked. I wanted to know how you get your movies into transactional Video on Demand sites. I wanted to know how s VOD worked. I wanted to know how a VOD worked I want to know how the theatrical machine work that you know the the business of making money in these four different areas and they are four completely different areas. Yeah trickle especially, you know you might have other movies made $10 million but really what comes back to the filmmaker this guy he is sitting here right by the time the cinema takes half my time the agents take half the delivery guys, the the sales guys everything, you know, you might end up with that much. You know, man, it's just that there's a lot of work, and then hang on. And then there's the advertising that might be attached to your movie that's going to have to be reimbursed and there's all this shit that is that goes with it. Here's for an example. A friend of mine has made a movie over here in Australia. It did really well around the world. I think about he said it grossed over $25 million. He's still yet to see a single cent four years later. Wow. It's gonna come to him. Something's gonna come to you He rings me up. And he he's in tears. You know, you guys should listen to him. And I said, No, No, you shouldn't have listened to me. I'm doing something very fucking stupid. You did it the way, it just happened to work differently for me. But, but I but bigger understanding what better stuff I've put in place to make sure that works. So anyway, we were going through the whole tape or the thing through an aggregator. Because the thing that sucks about the Amazons of the world and all these sort of guys, it's very hard for you, as an individual to get a movie up on these sites, Amazon, you could probably do it with a lot of dancing ants dicking around, but they all of them now are very, pretty much critiquing movies, you can just throw your movie up on all those T boards, you know, you could they will just go nuts Polish sticker Polish ship, now you're out. You know, so you've just made a movie, but then you realize I can't unload it anyway, because Amazon Amazon doesn't like it Apple doesn't like it. You know, Microsoft doesn't like it. IBM has like a Fandango don't like it all these were whoever these there's fucking list of mile long as you know, you still got to get it through all these people to get them to like your movie enough to put it on their platforms. And that's got to unfortunately, go through an aggregator which is another fucking annoying word, word for distributor, right? So there's always there's gonna be someone in your way, which is fine. And I don't know why Apple dot Apple should be, you know, the best movie upload site in the world is Vimeo on demand, but no one fucking watches it. No one uses it. No one uses it. But it is the best of the best of the best that the reason is, you could upload your movie in 4k 8k, glorious, beautiful viewing. It looks stunning on whatever you put it on. You can upload your movie or your subtitles, you can decide what countries you want to sell and everything and probably under five minutes. No one in your way. And they take 10% Thank you, Mark. It's so fucking simple. So when everyone wants to see my movie Now go make just go go to Vimeo it's gonna be easier. And I'll actually make 90%. Right instead of the other way, which is, you know, like, everyone else takes half and then other people and then there's the aggregator fee and there's blah, blah, blah. So anyway, I'm just gonna, I think Vimeo have actually got a great thing there. But I have no fucking idea because Vimeo just useless with the marketing and the way they've done things. That company is still doing what it's doing. It's obviously living off business, you know, sharing out of having an idea, but from a movie perspective, they if they invested in that properly, before indie filmmakers, they will just own that whole space.

Alex Ferrari 28:07
They bought a few HX back in the day VHS was that the all that software, all that technology was VHS. They bought it rebranded it under Vimeo Pro, or Vimeo movies or whatever it is, but they didn't do anything with it. And they never really market it. And there's, you're asking anytime you're asking someone to put a credit card in. It's a layer of resistance for them to product. But if you're on Amazon,

Mark Toia 28:35
Right, Bill, if I set up a PayPal Apple Pay or whatever through Amazon, it would be just click, click, click Run.

Alex Ferrari 28:41
But if it's Amazon, you collect if it's Apple TV, you click because you already have your information there.

Mark Toia 28:47
Yeah, but you know, Vimeo can set up those pay systems through there if they really if they really wanted to. Anyway, the fee about them on not doing an edge with Vimeo does exactly that's, that's the best platform to put up a tee, but your video but every other one is a bit of a pain in the ass. So anyway, we get accepted, you know, Apple, say, yeah, we'll put it on Amazon. But you know that, that still takes two to three months for that process to happen. And then you got there's a date that you want to do a release and you're trying to sync up everyone all at the same time to release on the special December 8. And everyone's telling me oh no, you're mad markets too close to Christmas. You know, the amount of times everyone told me I was mad right? Anyways. Okay, now go back a bit. This is where your book comes in. You got to sell it. No one knows that movie is going to be sitting on Apple TV or sitting on Amazon if you don't tell the world that. Now this is my big fundamental mistake I made. I was where I screwed up was I didn't spend enough in advertising. I should have spent a lot more and the movie would have got right out there because, you know, when you sell a movie on TV or P VOD, whatever you want to call it, there's a spike. It's a new movie, it's out, you know, so you got to create as much hype as you're doing. The studio's do it. Well, they might make a movie for $300 million, or $200 million, or whatever, they're going to spend the same amount again flogging it. I spent a million dollars on my movie, I should have spent a million dollars on advertising. Wow, it would have been a hell of a risk, sir. No, no, it wouldn't have been because I you could see all the stats and all the logistics, everything that comes to you and you had an analyst Analytics on your sales. This is a lot of stuff that distributors don't show you because they just give you the little email saying, Hey, you made $12 today, but the reality is you get a lot of information. Right? About who buys it, whereby is the time they buy it, the you know, the who's buying it, as well as when you do a lot of your digital marketing. With your Analytics, you can dig so deep into those analytics using, you know, female 14 RED CAR lives in Minnesota, whatever, you know, you can really nail down on your target market. So that means you're not wasting your money. Selling, you know, like on your phone monitors man's not turning up and as on some 64 year old grandmother's phone. Right? You are literally once you start getting all this stuff this information, and we did some test trailers that we threw out there. So we can see those test results. And then we were just we we did a little Indiegogo campaign. Not so much to make money from it. But more so sell our movie through that porthole. This was already remember. So what I did, I thought, well, let's do an Indiegogo campaign and say, Look, if everyone helps us with the advertising of our movie, everyone gets the movie free and odds and ends and all the extras and the behind the scenes and bla bla bla bla. And yeah, and I think about 25 $30,000 turned up, which I thought, Wow, that's great. Now, we already had like a quarter million dollars allocated for advertising. I just used that $25,000 From Indiegogo. We've done all our marketing, pre the movie, and we can see all our trailer data spiking so much that people were watching it all the way through, which is super uncommon. Now I'm in because I'm in the advertising game. I hear and I see all the data from a lot of my advertisers, you know, and because they share it with me, they want me to know, so that can help them make better commercials. And I'm looking at these and how long people are staying on my ads and and who is not staying on it. So I can see that there's this type of this group of people that drive black cars and live over here and this and others age, they're only watching it for seven seconds. Right? And these people are watching it for 30 seconds of these people watch it, you know, so I can really start getting my targeting right down. So we spent 25 grand on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, all that sort of stuff and just pumped it out there. And we worked out in that month later on. So that two weeks leading towards the release of our film, we had over 50 million people had seen our trailer. Wow for 25,000 but 25 grand 25 grand. So our advertising work. And mind you I edited 40 trailers different trailers, which we did only testing four weeks beforehand, right. So we we did a real study in what's going to work what's not going to work. You know what I mean? So the trailer that got put out, was it the trailer I liked, but it was the trailer the masses, like you know what I mean? So you got to start you don't make trailers for you. You make trailers for everyone else. You know, and the one we did the testimonials really worked hard. The one with Neal McDonough jumping up, you know, saying you know, what's your movie, you know, there's a few key key little shorter, a couple shorter spots that really resonated with the, with our research. So anyway, so I thought 50 million people faculty in our trailer, all I need is $1 for one of them one. I just need $1 from like 10% of these

Alex Ferrari 34:19
10 cents 10 cents would have been good.

Mark Toia 34:24
I'm not going to spend my spare quarter million dollars I've got put aside for advertising. We've done it we've we've hit advertising gold, and this is where I started to smell my own farts and they're all good smelling

Alex Ferrari 34:38
The roses

Mark Toia 34:44
And anyway, off it went it released. And it did great. It did great. But I knew a year later, if I spent that quarter million dollars over I spent a million dollars advertising. I've got it out well LiDAR, because it's amazing how many people don't even know my movie exists. 25 grand 50 million views is nothing. I realized that our, our base of interest needs to be upwards of 500 million people to make a decent dent on sales. Right. So that's a lot of advertising.

Alex Ferrari 35:25
So let me ask you a question. What was your ROI on the advertising money made? So like, for every dollar you spent in marketing, how much money did you make back? Give or take?

Mark Toia 35:35
25 or 25? Yeah, let's say on the 20. Okay, 25 grand, I know we made a million dollars. It worked, right?

Alex Ferrari 35:42
So it's not a bad. Right? All right. I just want I just want to kind of stuff

Mark Toia 35:51
That's in the first three months, too. So right. Now, the movie is still making money. Now. It's, it's still ticking away nicely. It's like a, it's an apartment building in the corner just ticking away rent.

Alex Ferrari 36:03
So the reason why I'm gonna stop here for a second. So I want to just kind of highlight a couple of things, you said that you're throwing out a lot of gold nuggets here, you offer off a 25 grand you were able to generate your budget back comfortably out of within three months. That's unheard of in marketing and market let's on heard of. But if you would have put in just a quarter of a million you might have been able to make 3456 $7 million possibly offer off of those three months it would that would have worked? Or do you think not?

Mark Toia 36:39
The more people that know about your movie, and the more hype you can build on about it? What do you think Marvel do it this way? Right? What do you do? What do you think all the big movies as spending so much money on advertising? awareness, awareness, awareness, awareness, right? Into the day with my 50 million people is really only one city in China. It's like, not much right? In the grand scheme of things. And it's, and it's saying that million dollars in three months, you know, that million dollars slowly comes in over 12 months, but that you can see that the you see the money being made, including all our international sales, which we'll talk about today. So we walk you through advertising, advertising advertising, I can't preach harder about that, actually. And that's where I think I made that that big mistake I go, Well, you know, we're in a very, very noisy world, right? It's a massively noisy world. There's so much shit on your phones. Now. It's hard to get cut through. Right? I wish I could still spend a million dollars. And you might see my ad, may you might, if you're lucky. I mean, you're in the film industry, you know me, you'll probably get it, you'll probably get hit by it. But your neighbor, who is probably in the Sci Fi films, how the fuck do you target him to your enemy. So you're trusting that the Facebook machine, the instant machine, the Tick Tock machine, the YouTube, the YouTube machine are going to maybe get near that individual for your million dollars. So you need to really think about your advertising your PR, you know, your little news, shit that goes out, everything's got to be very well thought out. Now, that's a lot of work. Again, if you're going to get a distributor to do this for you, who are going to say you're mad, right?

Alex Ferrari 38:40
But by the way, they would never work as hard. They would never work disarm unless they unless they're making tons of cash.

Mark Toia 38:47
You know, that would have and that they're not going to say to you, Hey, Mark, will sell your film and we're going to put a minute we're gonna invest a million dollars on advertising. Right? Because a lot of the guys a lot of the distributors, they know, right? They've been around the traps, they've sold their they've probably got 400 movies on their shelves, you know, rats and mice. That's how they make their money. They get the little percentage of each one of them little movies, and that's how they pay you know, silicones to college, right? But a huge advertising campaign like that off the back of one of these little indie films, that they would fucking shut you down and say you're crazy. But you do need the right product for it too. So if it's if it's just a couple of people running around, fucking Detroit shooting each other and raping their girlfriends and bragging you know, and shooting police and you know, just an action, drama or whatever. With No Name actors, you'd never spend a million dollars because it's you they already know that it's never got to do any better than probably pick up a few 100 grand in the in the trenches. You know what I mean? If they're lucky, with the little $6,000 advertising Um, budgets attached to it, that fully allocated to it. But my movie was that okay, let's go back a bit, a friend of mine from a company that has a big red lager, right? He gave me some data about what their AI robot says is hot right now. And in it, it said, explosions, you know, make sure this many people died, blah, blah, blah. But you know, it was literally a formula movie of just information that was coming into their business that would say they could understand research, they can understand who's watching and who's demanding what to watch. So I saw these 10 key points, action movie sci fi, this, that it literally had all this detail about what should be in a movie hit when what people are watching now. I went, well, that's probably an interesting, let's go make a robot movie. Right? And have some explosions. And we'll do this, we'll do that. So so the movie wasn't like a brainchild movie of mine, which I've been sitting on that script for fucking 10 years. And then I've and I'm 50 drafts in. It's it's one or two draft film, which I was going to polish as we were going with the actors, because I know actors bring a lot to the table. And with all the special effects and all that sort of stuff, I mean, we're going to talk about that later to a bit of what how we did that. But the knowing that the my movie was going to take a lot of boxes when it came to sales. I had an a sort of a name actor in there with Neil, right? He's enough for to give the movie street cred. Everyone loves it.

Alex Ferrari 41:56
Everyone knows his face. Everybody.

Mark Toia 41:58
Everyone knows him everyone loves him. He's a tough guy. He's great for putting in your film, right? But he's not going to make you any money. He's just going to get better. He's going to help you sell the movie. But when you go didn't do all your sales internationally, and all that sort of stuff. They go, Oh, I know that guy. What's his name? All right. So and next thing, it helps you get it over the line. So it's not like nails, nails, not not a list of by any stretch, but he gives them in restricted. I wish I'd put a couple of millennials in there as well. Right, just a few more, and I think we're doing a movie shortly. Just another fun movie like this.

Alex Ferrari 42:36
Jesus Christ I've

Mark Toia 42:37
I've been I want to have a massive ensemble cast and they have liked it. And we just had fun with it, you know? And that, you know, that's another thing. So, so then we were just jumping off track here.

Actually, you know, we were branching off a little we're branching off a lot of things, but not what you said. Is

Pull me back in line Alex.

Alex Ferrari 42:56
I'll bring you back. I'll bring you back in sir. So you're TVODing. You're sending things out your marketing like crazy. How many months do you go through transactional before you decide to go to SVOD or prime?

Mark Toia 43:10
Okay, mistake number two. Mistake number two. Fuck as far as what to go in ate shit all day every day.

Alex Ferrari 43:22
By the way you did get an offer from from that big. That big streamer that hasn't been as well. It's all but you decided not to go with him?

Mark Toia 43:33
Here? I don't I don't streaming is a very it's true streaming is the cancer of indie film, as you know.

Alex Ferrari 43:41
Right industry agreed agreed.

Mark Toia 43:44
I decided it's my movies doing so well on TV. It's sort of fit the curve is bumping down. Right. But so did my advertising too. I probably could have kept it propped up longer. got convinced to get put it on Prime put on prime is screaming for this. You know they want it they want to prime Amazon. We want it we want it. It goes under Prime. I am top five in America for four weeks. On prime. It's getting smashed. Millions of people have watched my movie now. In America. I see one or two or three cents per per view. I might as well just fucking given it to them. Right? It is a total waste of time. There is no economic sense to put your movie on prom. no economic sense at all. Don't put it on Prime don't put it near any streaming network. You see pennies, pennies.

Alex Ferrari 44:49
But you're saying

Mark Toia 44:50
I might have made 100 or 200 grand millions of people watch my movie and I made a couple undergrad done nothing.

Alex Ferrari 44:57
Now you're saying now you're saying that and I want I want to kind of put things into perspective here. You're also making a good amount of money and transactional, where most independent filmmakers are. They don't even they can't make money and transactional because they don't know how to drive traffic. So the only thing that they have is the potential of A prime and A VOD, which we're gonna get to in a minute. But hopefully with this conversation, people will try to give transactional again, again, it has to be the right product, you add the right product. I mean, it's, it's an easy sell. It's killer robots that look as good as anything the studio put out with great action, explosions and things like that people are going to watch that. But you're absolutely right. It's s VOD, and Amazon Prime and those kinds of places. It is and that, by the way, is not a VOD, and we're gonna get to advertising. This is subscription based stuff. It is not that. It's horrible. It's horrible. I wanted to know those numbers. Because I know you had it on there. You're like, yeah, I made a couple 100 grand off of top five on Amazon, like top five period, beating studios.

Mark Toia 46:04
It was sitting there forever. My friends are ringing me for America go fuck. It's still there.

Alex Ferrari 46:09
And you're like, you must be making tons No, you are making

Mark Toia 46:12
I thought I thought fact this is it new by by flying to the jet fuel the jet, you know, if TJ it was underway, anyway.

Alex Ferrari 46:27
Okay, so that's not that's strange.

Mark Toia 46:30
As far as I'm concerned, subscription based. Movies is what have devalued the world's movies. Because now if for seven bucks a month, you can go and watch 100 movies a week, you know, to make you good, right? mess yourself with it. And yeah, subscription company make a fortune because they will they need us subscribers, paying $7 each. Millions of those boom, they make money. But the actual people that own those movies and make those movies. Make nothing. Make nothing. So is avoid, as you know, and you might get the random, you might get Netflix or someone ringing up and saying hey, we'll, we'll buy it off you for a turn. But the amount they offer you is nothing. They're quite happy to go and spend copious amounts of money making that film for themselves if they owned it, but now that it's made, it's not it's worthless. It's they feel that like what's already made, you've already made the film, his first strapping stranger grant, because look, make it they would, they would have blown $10 million and making the damn thing you don't

Alex Ferrari 47:41
They want to meet, they would have spent 10 million bucks to make monsters of man easily. And they would have easily been spent 10 If not more to make a movie like that. But when you want something like that drops in their plate, they should be like, You know what, let's give you about a couple mil for this because this is this is

Mark Toia 47:56
What he would do with a couple of bills that those days are long gone. You You're so fucking three years ago.

Alex Ferrari 48:04
Exactly. I agree. No, I agree. I agree with you. I understand. doesn't pay any I mean, Amazon, Netflix or Amazon? Nobody pays anything anymore. Those days are those days are gone. All right. So you went to SVOD. But you still have transactional running. So people are still you know,

Mark Toia 48:19
I'm leaving it there forever. And I after you know, a couple of months. As far as I saw the numbers like I've got the I can jump you know the aggregator on it with is allowed me passwords to see inside Amazon. So I can see every great idea. By the way, every everyone out there. If you're distributors, you want to be super transparent. And then no one's gonna try and race back. You know, they're not going to try and kill you in the street. Just see the real data and you'll be and you'll have some good trust there. Right? So anyway, I see all that information firsthand. I go through it every week still. And I can see if I'm if I made 22 cents or $20,000 whatever. It's just all the data. I saw the prime data. I was like, Holy shit, this is like pillaging and raping my movie. You know what I mean? It's like, now all those potential T VOD. People have now watched it for three cents for nothing. You don't I mean, a big marketplace just got destroyed by amazon prime. So, you know, that's the system they ran. That's fine. That's their life. I mean, I made the mistake of jumping on it. So you know,

Alex Ferrari 49:33
Pull it out and you pull it out or you left it there. Oh, yeah.

Mark Toia 49:38
Get the fuck out of there. You don't have it? I mean, the IMD TVs that all that sort of on our note, we're going up to a five now Okay,

Alex Ferrari 49:46
That's a bad. So I see the paper transaction was still going and you're still making money on transactional even during that time.

Mark Toia 49:52
Okay. So, anyway, but my advertising has stopped. I'm a bit To remember back on relaunching the movie again, which is another thing.

Alex Ferrari 50:05
Which Yeah, because Because, look, the thing is, it's not like the olden days where a movie comes out big, big hoopla everybody knows about it. And everybody knows is really most people in this world do not know that your movie was ever released. So it's brand new to that. So you can read remarket It read, put it out there, and see what happens. Alright, so now you're still making money off a transaction on may

Mark Toia 50:29
Have bested that already, by the way. And that's gonna work.

Alex Ferrari 50:33
Exactly, exactly. So then you go into the AVOD world, which is arguably the only place that independent filmmakers are truly making money in today's world. Unless you are you unless you know how to drive traffic to a transactional and have an audience that's willing to pay for your product. A VOD is honestly the only place that people are making money from my understanding what's your experience?

Mark Toia 50:55
And not for long? Is the bad news?

Alex Ferrari 50:59
Okay, tell me tell me tell me.

Mark Toia 51:02
Yeah, I bought we dropped out on Shooby and yeah, it exploded it was bad went off. It's good, great. Daddy goods and Bad's of Avon. The good thing with with Tubi is it's small and growing fast. It's full of low weight indie films. And even though my my movie pokes its head at the top of the poo, right? It's still it's still in, it's still making money. What's happening now is the studios with their massive banks of movies over the last 40 years, damping under tubing. So all of a sudden, all your indie films are going to be lost. Right? You're going to be forced down the bottom of the pile again. It's still there. People can still watch it you can still drive people to to be to search it. Or there's this monster the man there. It's you know, getting buried right now. Right now it's getting buried tube Shooby can't put these these Hollywood movies on with Hollywood stars. They can't put that shit on quick enough right now.

Alex Ferrari 52:17
Right! Because you've, you've got like a 10 year old Brad Pitt movie, and actually be like, kill me softly or something like that. And yeah, people like autumn forgot about that movie. Let me watch that. That's going to be watched every day over an independent film. And it's so funny you say that? Because in T VOD indies, where That's where money was made first, then S VOD Indies. That's where the money was made for. Netflix was bought. Nope. Netflix was buying.

Mark Toia 52:43
If it were bought,

Alex Ferrari 52:46
No, no, they were buying independent projects, independent films. And they were spending money on Amazon was at Sundance and everybody. So same thing happened in the studio is like no, no, shoot, and then diluted that then a VOD. Oh, god, oh, God, Oh, God. And then now the studios are dumping that in. The next one is YouTube. And the studios have yet to do that. And you in the YouTube world there. They do clips and they're monetizing the clips off of their movies. But they're not putting their full movies up for free yet. But that's the next place.

Mark Toia 53:16
I will because I'm in talks with them now. So yeah, it's happening. But here's what's happening, right? Here's what's happening with a VOD space. Like things evolved so quickly. As you know, it's just nuts. You think if you only a little, you think you found a little Goldmine, right? You think you found that you're there? And you're like, This is it and then it gets everyone else finds the same goldmine. Everyone piles into the same goldmine. So, you know, for instance, Netflix, I bet you know, not a word of a lie. I have no idea where

Alex Ferrari 53:54
They're going AVOD. Oh, there you go. Oh, no, they're gonna absolutely there's no question in my mind that Netflix in the next two years will have an AVOD option, like Hulu does.

Mark Toia 54:05
All of her will be everyone will be AVOD. And then to be will be the little lonely kid in the corner that started the whole fucking shit show. They will be there back with all their indies again.

Alex Ferrari 54:20
And nobody's gonna want to go over there again. But But yeah, because now because now to be is going to have to fight paramount, Disney, all of them will eventually have a AVOD option. If you want to spend your money. You wanna spend 15 bucks a month or 10 bucks a month, you could do an ad free. So they'll still have both revenues. And they're going to be happy because imagine right now if HBO goes advertising, AVOD, how many people who jump on it watch HBO? How many people watch Disney plus more than they do now? It's I want people to understand how difficult it is to me. Make Money With a movie in today's marketplace. It's absolutely cutthroat brutal. I, you know, I'm going to be speaking at AFM this year, I'll be there in November. I'm dying to see what everybody's talking about and what everyone's because from my experience going to the market, everybody's just like, I don't know what, I don't know, maybe this maybe that nobody knows no distributor really knows what's going to happen the next three or four years. No. So that's why your case study so interesting.

Mark Toia 55:30
Distributors work, distributors work less their sales on commodity. Right? Right. Their business is not about selling movies, their business is about collecting movies. So the more movies they need, the more movies they have, and the libraries, the more little rats and mice you know that it just sprinkles money on them little bits of money, but it all adds up in the end of the day. And we get it you know, so if you're gonna do that, get a distributor to help you he number one transparency. Try and get that person 15% or less and, and flog the advertising yourself as hard as he can, even though they want to do it. They're going to charge you for it and probably spend a quarter of what they've told you they're going to spend, right,

Alex Ferrari 56:28
Which was then you're going to spend the money on the advertising then at the end of the day? Why the hell are you gonna go with them? Maybe Maybe you can make a deal to get into AVOD or something like that? I don't know. Alright, sorry. So I want to I do want to ask you about the Teva. What is the platform that made you the most money Apple, Amazon? Google, what was the platform that in order? Because a lot, there's a lot of myths about Amazon? Which one Amazon

Mark Toia 56:51
Was probably 70%.

Alex Ferrari 56:54
Wow. And that's a that's so valuable for people to understand. Because a lot of people still think that Apple and iTunes is the place to rent, but they're like, oh, I have to be on iTunes. iTunes at the beginning of the TV. Revolution was the place to be but Amazon is just everybody's on Amazon.

Mark Toia 57:12
I think. I think Amazon has just everyone's got an Amazon account buying shit online, right? So a lot of people have prime accounts, their prime accounts, it just comes with when you subscribe when you order your toilet paper online, you get your free ship.

Alex Ferrari 57:28
You got free shipping, you've got Amazon Prime.

Mark Toia 57:30
Yeah, very clever. Very, very clever. Amazon, Amazon is a beast, you know, it makes good money. It you know, when you look at all your data that comes online through their through the portal, you get to see all your sales. You you could do it yourself, you're getting initially loaded up on Amazon yourself hoping that they like it. You don't I mean, if it's thinking part ship, they will just pull it off over time.

Alex Ferrari 57:57
Yeah, without warning, without warning. Without warning, we weren't gonna pull it off staff, they'll just pull things off.

Mark Toia 58:04
It's not making money. I can, I can see why. Right? Because data, data costs money, and they just got so much stuff sitting up online at the moment.

So okay, so yeah, Apple TV, I got it.

I got fleeced by Apple, oh, not so much by Apple. But they've got these recommended list of aggregators.

Alex Ferrari 58:24
I think was one of those distributor was one of those months, a long time ago.

Mark Toia 58:30
Apple just seem to hire or the gun owners at Apple seem to recommend all the sharks, you know, anyway, is company surname unnamed, and we're trying to sue them at the moment, but they literally stole most of our apple profits. So they probably still owe us a half a million dollars or more, and maybe even more, I mean, we literally physically the take the movie down from Apple, wait three months and then put it back up again, like very disruptive from that angle. But Apple is a big apple and a big earner. As much as Amazon Amazon is the machine Apple is next. Believe it or not. The Google Google Play SEO slash YouTube sales were very good as well. And Microsoft was amazing.

Alex Ferrari 59:22
It was even on Playstation and all that. X box. Yeah.

Mark Toia 59:28
The next Xbox PlayStation, whatever it was that no, not PlayStation, new Xbox. That's one.

Alex Ferrari 59:34
What else but that makes sense with your kind of,

Mark Toia 59:36
You know, the fan dangos and the videos and all that. Don't waste your fucking time. Nobody. I think we got like $14 You know?

Alex Ferrari 59:49
That's really good. That's really good information for people listening out there because a lot of times they'll spend all this money with aggregators, like I gotta have it on Fandango and on Vudu and I'm like, no, no I always tell him I have always said I've always consulted filmmakers to do Amazon. I go iTunes is vanity that's a vanity play just to say to people I'm on a habit you still making

Mark Toia 1:00:09
Money there and a lot of people out here in my house for instance, we don't we don't buy shit from Prime I don't

Alex Ferrari 1:00:15
Either I use Apple TV, but those are the two words that you really if you're going to spend money Amazon Apple, maybe Google maybe play maybe

Mark Toia 1:00:25
I'm finding myself now I'm starting to buy more movies. I mean, I've got all the isopods right, I've got the primes the fact that this that they're all They're all a thumbprint away but it's all it's it's love it's a scrap it you know maybe I'll watch too much and I've gone through all the good stuff but you've reached the end of the good but now I've got well here's the latest Elvis just turned up you know? I'll just a bite 25 bucks fucking What the hell is this? Bring me Elvis into my room. You know? I've got a really nice theater in our in our house. So it's like I've seen scrapes.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:04
I've seen pictures of your theater sir it's it's embarrassing. So you should be you should be ashamed of yourself.

Mark Toia 1:01:10
It is not that expensive to set up by the by the way.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:13
They're not as much as they used to be. That's for sure. Now, okay, so with Avon so in a in the Avon world what are the rankings to be number one and I know IMDb TV which is now free V is I heard that's doing really well. And so what an Avon Where are you making your money?

Mark Toia 1:01:34
The AMD IMDb TV in the UK is going great guns at the moment.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:41
Which has now turned into Freeview, by the way, and I think that's changed, I think in the UK as well.

Mark Toia 1:01:46
What you know, whatever they were Yeah, they rebranded it. And then he went, we're not on all the AVOD yet, because I'm still, I'm still I'm still up in here, but I thought I mean, it's there and it's gonna sit there for next 20 years bubbling away. But you're still gonna drive traffic to it. But you can make more money still, I can get one sale on tabled. Right, which equates to 50 people watching my movie on Avon. Does that make sense?

Alex Ferrari 1:02:20
It makes sense the world? Yeah, absolutely. That's fine, if you can, but you gotta find a customer that's willing to pay for it. Either rented, or so you can obviously

Mark Toia 1:02:30
I'm going to spend that money. I'm gonna get I'm gonna do a new advertising campaign. And you know, I'm gonna throw 1000s at it. And it's going to be because I know every time we have put advertising in, we see massive spikes in sales. So the other day, I just did one as a bit of a macro and just a play thing. Right? I put $1,000 in and we got like 70 grand for the sales. Extra sales.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:54
How much did you put in $1,000. So just so you're getting a seven to a return on your on your money on $1.

Mark Toia 1:03:04
That's more excessive as a 349 percenter.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:07
Yeah, exactly. So you're sure you're not doing bad. I mean, I'll do that all day. But just keep putting money in and you keep again, the ROI. Why not? You put $1 in you get $8 out of it.

Mark Toia 1:03:18
Yeah, all of a sudden, you don't see the intern coming in with your advertising going in, he just fucking turn it off. But end of the day, just believe it there. I mean, the sales from that area, just just topping up your advertising spend. So it's just, it's just a cyclic system. It's very basic and simple. Yeah. And I'm thinking about and the original name of my movie was robot four. Do I relaunch the movie again as robot four and put up the 90 minute one, you know, I don't know. All these things that go through my mind.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:49
You could you could do the Director's Cut

Mark Toia 1:03:52
Robot for the target is the is the cut down.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:57
You know, the thing that's wonderful about your story is that you are generating revenue you've you've turned your movie into a money making machine, which is exactly what the book talks about how to turn your movie into a money making machine. You've been able to do that using all these little tools and tricks and stuff. Did you generate I saw that you selling or at least you're focusing energy on the single from the music single. Is that something you own? Are you just trying to give love to the artist on your ear?

Mark Toia 1:04:24
Well, that's my daughter sung that song at the end. Oh, wow. That's awesome. She did great. It's very accomplished musician, singer songwriter. She was living in Sweden at the time. And I said hey, do you want to do a song for the movie? And she goes Yeah, cuz I stress her out apparently. Shocking. Anyway, she sent it to me she was shooting herself and she sent me the sent me the track. We checked it on the timeline at the end. Let's drop this straight over and it was perfect. I got it's great darlin love it. She's like, What? Do you want me to change anything? I said, No. That's your piece of art. And we're going to have as your family. My son helped help me shoot the film. My wife helped me produce the film. My daughter wrote a little tiny piece of music at the end of it.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:16
You don't degenerate, degenerate, generate revenue. Has she generated any revenue with sales from that song or now?

Mark Toia 1:05:23
Oh, she's made a few cents. You know, the music industry is

Alex Ferrari 1:05:27
Just as bad as Spotify, how much do you make negative two cents every time you owe us money every time someone plays it.

Mark Toia 1:05:37
Spotify started the whole cancer is subscription based bullshit. I mean, I've got a lot of disdain for that model. Because it you know, when we're thinking about Netflix, I suppose is Netflix will find a filmmaker with a good idea. Give them the money to go and make the movie. Give them their producers fee directors fee. And that's it. They'll keep the movie and fuck you off. And that's it. And it's all done. So Netflix is great for creating content and paying crew and directors and producers that didn't have the money to make that movie. And do it themselves. You know what I mean? So good on good on Netflix for that. But it's sad when they see a great movie, but they won't pay that filmmaker what that movie is at least cost at least what it costs the anatomy or what they what it could be worth in the marketplace. I've seen a lot of my friends that have sold to Netflix and they are like getting chump change.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:48
You know that way forever and waiting forever for that chump change? Yeah, oh, yeah.

Mark Toia 1:06:53
Well, yeah, the deals are very long, like long, like, oh, yeah, three, three year deals, and they get paid once a year dividend. And if they don't, if it's not really working, and that's falling off the grid a bit they'll just they'll drop it year after year. I'm sure there's a whole bunch of different deals going through. I don't really know in detail. I don't really want to know it's I just see my my filmmaking friends all upset. They've cried their beer in front of me.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:23
So somebody asked you so let me ask you then you because we've kind of hinted about this during the conversation. You use this as a calling card for for Hollywood to go off and do some movies. You from our from our past conversations, which will you know, we won't say who, but you've had some pretty big players in the in the studio system call you about possibly doing some work and you talk whatever you can say about that? Let me know. Can you talk about it?

Mark Toia 1:07:52
It is a few little India haste. But yeah, the biggest, the biggest of the biggest, the biggest, the biggest of court, and the smallest of the smallest of court, or, you know, everyone in between? Yeah, I've been probably sent well over 100 scripts, I think since the movies come out. I've attempted to read most of them. But if they don't have me in the first 10 pages, I'm fuckin I'm out, you know. But it's, you know, I, it's a hard game, even for the studios, right. But they might have the money, they might have the clout, they might have everything, but there's a big, there's big machines attached to a lot of it. And I'm wary to do the big the big John studio job next, because I know I'm gonna have a bit of a hand up the coin puppet thing, you know, I'm gonna be and, and really, they're not going to get my full potential because they literally it's going to be directed from the sidelines. Right? Don't say why ring me. I mean, what they need, they just they need to employ. And this is why a lot of young directors that are shot short films are doing massive blockbusters, because the studio just needs a pop up in there to, to strike together. They've already directed it, they already know what it's going to be like, have you done? Yeah. You know, the, there's, there's 10 directors on that movie, and it's not the one that they hired, you know, he's just pieces, maybe the full guy. Right and the thing, and you go and do those big movies and it doesn't do well and your career is over and done with the rest of your life. It's all finished. You know? So I've been very careful with who I jump in bed with. And a lot of them tell you, a lot of them tell you on my mind is going to be your vision. You've got total creative control, blah, blah, blah. But you know, that's complete utter bullshit, right? You know, give me finally come out of the come

Alex Ferrari 1:09:59
It asked for final cuts, see what happens.

Mark Toia 1:10:05
Look, I love anomalous in respect to all the guys that have called me and the people we're still talking to. And we've, we've got this, there's a half dozen guys with their films, the big, biggest well known producers and they've got some really great script ideas. I'm really excited actually about what's coming up. Now, the thing is, they are still at the mercy of actors. They are still at the mercy of they don't get money unless they're like the signs. They're still going to try and convince that actor that Mark Toya is the director for the job. Right. So there's all these hurdles, I might have opened the door nice and wide, and everyone's jumping on the mat train because they go well, toy just made a fucking movie, what would have cost us catering money, you know, and he's made a whole movie of our catering budget. And it's, it's pretty good. And like, and that's why I'm jumping on because they see me as a bit of a meal ticket in that sense, which is great. And I want them to see me as a meal ticket. Yes, I can do all the special effects myself. I shoot myself I do everything else whole lot myself and I can do that stuff so swiftly and easily. And then I know how to break the rules. I don't need the technic cranes, I don't need all that shit. That complicates the movie and makes the movie massively expensive. And they still get their big budget looking movie for probably quarter the price. So and they know that it's so hard for them now to make movies to make profit on a movie. So all of a sudden people like me that are sort of multi skill are we become a commodity we become the the, the little goldmine for a bit, so. So I've proven that with the monster movie, the monsters Man movie. Now I just need to prove to that. So same people that I can do deep drama as well. So then I'm going to do another film where it's going to be very, very active driven. And that will just tick off that box. I can do the action and I can do

Alex Ferrari 1:12:12
Now are you going to release it the same way? Or what are you going to do with that one? It worked. Yeah, but but there's no explosives. No killer robots are so I'm not sure if the drop explosions.

Mark Toia 1:12:28
Goes in there. And he's, you know, in a gun, he holds up a petrol station in LA and we blow up the petrol station, right? So it's an explosion. Maybe there's an explosive you're in a trailer moments. Seriously, if you're gonna sell a movie, you need moments in that trailer where people go, this looks fucking cool. Right? It does. It can't be stupid, right? Dramas don't sell every distributor in the world will come until here. Unless you got Meryl Streep and the bloody thing. It won't sell. And even if it has Meryl Streep in it doesn't wait, I still don't know. Right? So if you're going to do a nice beautiful drama, or you know, a love story, whatever the odds are you making $1 Lucky next to nothing.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:16
And also, by the way, you also saw you also sold this one to territories individually, right? So you're doing that as well?

Mark Toia 1:13:22
Yes, yes. It's in about 140 Different countries now. You know, we need some to a region, you know, like to Japan, French speaking countries, all of a sudden, that's combines 30 countries or something. But it's not hard to you know, it's nice to say yo sometime in 50 countries, but the reality is we've sold it to, you know, probably a dozen or more regions that encompass those countries. But yeah, now we've done pretty good out of that.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:51
Yeah, it does

Mark Toia 1:13:54
Automate a lot more. I mean, um, during I think it was I think it might have been What's the fucking dodgy show? You love guarantee that AFM

Alex Ferrari 1:14:04
AFM?

Mark Toia 1:14:04
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was a guy there. And he rang me up. He said, I'll give you a million dollars for the movie. For international sales, right? I should have just given it to him, because international size is such a pain in the ass.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:17
But that's a whole other level of crazy.

Mark Toia 1:14:21
Yeah, it is a whole lot of little crazy. And you know, the Germans are ringing up in the gate. Oh, Mike, we love your movie. It's fucking great. But our AI robots have scanned your movie, and we've found 137 problems with it, and what type of problems? So you go down to the timecode. And there's like a pixel out that no one will ever see me fix that and they go, Well, there's a little bit of artifacting and I go what it's fucking stock footage, of course, it's gonna have an artifact and I've destroyed the QC QC here. So all the QC stuff and you just go out of it. I think we're probably out of the 100 Something comments is probably false. Things that were okay. There is a tiny is a missing frame or something which you can watch that movie 1000 times and never seen the missing frame. But the robot picked it up. Anyway. So you fucking around the Germans for six eight months just trying to get your movie kisi where everyone else it's playing around the world and no one else has any other problem with

Alex Ferrari 1:15:23
Germans but Germany history right?

Mark Toia 1:15:25
They paid well. In France The French paid well and I've purpose OMA to this thing. I've purposely kept all the English speaking countries for myself. You know, America, Canada's Australia, New Zealand, blah blah But anyway that they speak English I've I'm not going to sell the rights to the movie for the analysts they and this is a nice fat check that the Netflix or the Amazon has ring up and just dangle a carrot which they won't, completely won't. But it's a I love keeping the English speaking one for myself, because that's the one that's going to just keep churning over for me forevermore. You've got probably one distributor rang me saying, you know, telling me everything I wanted to hear. Which is great. They always do. But they he said this thing's probably got with his body of work that he's got that he's selling. He said you probably got another 1015 years. Because it's a relatively current subject. The post production is done really well. It's not shot in a city that's going to age race. In that age is the movie is Neal McDonough has a wire coming out of the zero everyone's Bluetooth now. I don't fuck it. Maybe I'll just paint the wire. There you go.

Alex Ferrari 1:16:44
There you go. Now is there gonna be a sequel? Nah. You left us open at the end.

Mark Toia 1:16:52
Come on, you know I did on purpose. It's it. They could be there's a lot of a lot of people have rung me not a lot. There's been a few people that have rung me again. Hey, can we do? Can we do the second version? You know, we'll pay for it right at the 100 bucks. Nice. But we want you to direct it. No. And get back to me. You know, I'm not listing no time into it. You guys want to go and do that. And that's fine. You go nuts and get back to me and we'll we'll decide then. So, but I like to do a I'd like to do Monsters and Men too. It'd be it wouldn't be fun. Yeah, it wouldn't be fun. It literally is opened up to go bigger. Because when I was making the movie, I thought Fuck, I just want to go full Michael Bay. If

Alex Ferrari 1:17:47
We're gonna give you some money for this, you're like, Okay,

Mark Toia 1:17:50
If I start doing movies to studios, I'm going to try and convince them to fucking do a Michael Bay execution. So.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:57
So my question to you is, sir, do you regret reading Rise?

Mark Toia 1:18:06
Well, again, I didn't read the book. Sorry. I don't like killing trees. But listen, the the ebook was fantastic. And and I've recommended it to a lot of people, don't you worry.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:19
No, no, thank you. I appreciate that.

Mark Toia 1:18:22
It's, it's, you know, you probably just need to do a, what I call the addition to Oh, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:30
I got up there. Yeah, there's,

Mark Toia 1:18:33
Yeah, it might have to do with every year because she changes so fast.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:37
I mean, a lot of the core concepts and they're still gonna be good for their evergreen. But there's some things that I wish I knew I needed an expanded edition, I need to do a second edition and the third edition and a fourth.

Mark Toia 1:18:47
I can't recommend it highly enough. It is that book is a lot. Like I said, when I was listening to it all says God, it's so fucking logical. Right? It's so logical. And within, you know, there's so many alarm bells in the film industry. So many alarm bells. If you were an indie guy wanting to make a movie, you really need to go to therapy first, because and read your book. I was one of the lucky ones. But I the amount of effort and energy I put in behind my movie to make sure it didn't fail was extraordinary.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:32
And you also you also have massive volume of of expertise, education, knowledge about all the things you're doing. So you also are on an anomaly in your own right, just yourself. So it takes a lot to do what you've done without question. Yeah,

Mark Toia 1:19:51
I mean, look, I've I know the whole production production thing. I've been doing posts forever. So I can post a movie on On my laptop, on an airplane, same here, I can make an 8k movie, like literally in my on my laptop where other people have got to go to a post test and they get completely, like, right. Like that they will you'll be getting of getting big bill if you did it that way. Right? That you know just you know people go I've made a movie for 30 grand. I said Yeah, but by the time we do proper sound, proper everything so you can sell it to certain companies this law that's going to cost more than your movie, if you want to do it. Because these companies might even take your movie with your shitty stereo sound that you did in Premiere? You don't I mean, they certainly do this the stems, you need to supply a loan,

Alex Ferrari 1:20:48
Oh, my God, just the deliverables? And then you get into QC with the pixel here and the pixel there that

Mark Toia 1:20:55
Oh. And the reality is no reality is that so overcooked, and so overhyped, I think that's been manufactured by postales is to give them more work. But the reality is that the amazing content you see on YouTube now done by young kids at home, and we got these amazing pieces of content, no one cares about a visa fucking missing frame or a pixel out or whatever. And it looks fantastic. So a lot of that the film Qc is just a lot of shit.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:26
I wouldn't I would agree with you 100%. And, and by the way, if you do have a distributor that will take that crappy version with a crappy audio, I promise you, they'll never get to pay, you know,

Mark Toia 1:21:37
If they because they will have to be fixing it.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:40
Yes. If they fix it, or they just put it out the way it is. And they just don't care. And they're just gonna see whatever money trickles in, like you say the little, the little, the little, the little crumbs that get thrown off of it.

Mark Toia 1:21:51
It is on the front for the record, I don't want to diss on distributors because distributors are there for a reason that they're there to fulfill a job that you're too lazy or inexperienced to do you have into I walked into this completely an experience. I've come out of fucking swiss army knife. You don't I mean, and so I know other pieces. So now I know what a real distributor should be doing. Right? I couldn't do it.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:26
But you're but you know what? You're absolutely right. And it's not that we rag on distributors, distributors have a job to do. And there are good ones out there. It's just the majority of them.

Mark Toia 1:22:36
Other great ones? Not not that great. And yeah, and there's distributors that have a lot of reach. And there's ones that don't, you know, right? There's no fun and games. You know, for example, this is what a movie is worth now, now that the stream has literally devalued a feature film, to literally is now officially a feature film has now officially officially worth about three cents. That's what your feature film is worth in the marketplace. three cents. That's really sad when you say that, right? And I say that three cents, because if the movie will eventually end up in a vote or SVOD or wherever, but that's probably all you're gonna get from your movie. After your TV, VOD experience is about three cents, every time someone watches it. So, you go now, I sold a little bit of stock footage the other day, right to Netflix, for you know, through, you know, through our through just through our stuff, guys. And I made $1,500 for five seconds. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, from an advertising perspective, that's great. So the thing is, how is a movie was so much work and effort from hundreds of people worth three cents when people watch it. But your stock footage, it was a picture of a fucking stop sign, like hundreds of dollars for

Alex Ferrari 1:24:09
So, so perfect example is look, I'll give you a perfect example. Let's say tomorrow, I open up a new service that allows you to get bananas on demand. Demand any anytime you want a banana, you just have to just open up your your your your, your, your cupboard, and there's a banana there because I've set up a technology that allows you to do the bananas before bananas used to cost you know, 69 cents a pound 99 cents a pound, which is not a lot of money, but there's a lot of volume in bananas. Now I've essentially brought down bananas to less than less than a penny, per thing. All of the hundreds of 1000s of people that go into creating bananas, cultivating them, packing them, picking them, packing them, shipping them, all of that all those people, how are they going to be living and that's exactly what's happening to us. as filmmakers we are, we're not able to make a living doing this. And you and I are both old enough of similar vintage to remember, the 80s, the 90s, and even the early 2000s, where you can make crap movies and make a lot of money with it. But now, you can't. And the distributors are still trying to figure it out all of them. The studios are trying to figure it out, which is which is the biggest studio in Hollywood right now. The one that makes the most money

Mark Toia 1:25:26
Would have no idea Disney, Disney.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:30
Now why is Disney make the most money? Because they use the film intrapreneur model. Because I didn't invent it. They've been doing it since the day of seven, the seven dwarfs the second they put Mickey Mouse on a t shirt. They started making money outside the film industry. So now where are they? So where are they making their money's when they do a Marvel movie or Star Wars movie or frozen. They made a billion dollars off the dresses and frozen alone. According to my according to my friend who works at Disney, a billion off the first movie. And that movie, by the way, made a billion in the box office. And they made they make more money off of everything else they sell them the actual movies is that they stopped being a movie studio a long time ago. They're about selling baby Yodas. That's what they want to sell that Mandalorian makes them some money, but it's a marketing tool. And that's what the film intrapreneur method is all about. It's about doing that, but for the independent, and focusing on niches and all that kind of stuff. But, but that's that's and that's the future. And that's why a lot of these other studios are having more difficult times surviving, and making, you know, making money because it's just I don't know where this all gonna go, my friend. But your story is very inspirational. I wanted to have you back on. So thank you so much for being so candid, and open with the audience and with the tribe about your, your, your adventures over the last two years getting this movie out into the world. And of course, when you make your next movie, we will be here to hear what happens with that one as well. And and if you do decide to make one of those big movies, please come back. I want to love to hear this. The stories from the inside of the studio

Mark Toia 1:27:11
Yeah, look, I think I will I will because it's you know, I've got a lot of a lot of time for you, Alex, and the information you give to a lot of filmmakers, because I see a lot of young fellas making movies or young people sorry, not young fellows, but young people making movies, and I'm already looking at dead people walking, right? In many ways. You're absolutely right. And I want to go over there and just say Look, don't don't can't, you know, they've got to go down the path of creating something you don't I mean, creating something to sell. And it's either I think telling a movie is like writing a book, right? For a writer writing a book, or cooking the best fucking food of his life for a filmmaker, creating the best movies can with his own hands. It's a creative release. And it's great if you get if you've got a rich dad or a mom or whatever, that it's just going to dump money on you to go and make your movie and have fun. But the reality is, if you're going to use other people's money, there's a responsibility there. And either, you're never going to be, you're always gonna have this monkey on your back. If you borrow money from the accountant down the road and aren't married, and someone's mortgaged their house, and you go and make a movie, and it doesn't make any money, right? forevermore, the stress that will be upon your head. And the reason why you're not going to make money is not because you might make the most amazing film look like you know, we had a little breakthrough with our one and it did everything right and you got your money back. But the odds if you don't do everything right, you know, and it doesn't work it's going to in the odds are it's not this I don't even know I've I've I know countless filmmakers, independent but myself truly independent guys that have made movies and reached out to me. And literally none of them have got a good story for me. You don't I mean, that religiously ringing me up asking me how. And it's really, really sad that the some of the stories I've heard have been decimated, I mean, terrible. And I've showed them ago. I'm going to tell you my process and that's where I fucked up there. Well, that's okay. That's fine. And you know, and I fucked up in certain areas selling my film as well. I know I could have made a lot more money with it. You know what I mean? But But listen, it's a life lesson. But you know what? System two is you can get into the traditional system. and just make wages, you can go and get your directors fee and whatever. You know, that's the other thing too about being a director is that the director is probably the you're not going to get paid much as a director. You know, I've got a friend of mine that's finishing a movie now for for Netflix. And he worked out because he ended up you know, hanging out with the makeup artist and making out with her. He worked out that per hour. Right? Her our, the amount of time he spent on the movie, compared to the amount of time she spent on the movie, she was making four times more than him because he got a contracted amount of X amount of dollars, you know, 100 grand, she came in just for, you know, the four weeks to suit this thing or five weeks, she was making more money per hour than him. So really, as a director, a movie director, you get jack shit, unless you're going to be like, a fucking famous Marvel director, maybe you know, after your second or third Marvel film, you might be making some good day. But the reality is even a lot of the offers I've been getting, I'll go fuck massive pay cut, you know, I can make what they offer. I can make doing an add in,

Alex Ferrari 1:31:15
Or stock trading week, or two or three weeks.

Mark Toia 1:31:19
You're literally paying me if you want me for a year in a bit, and you're gonna pay me a month's income like it directly at work. directing a movie is not really that What are you thinking?

Alex Ferrari 1:31:34
Right, exactly. And by the way, your story is could have been a cautionary tale very easily you could have if you didn't know marketing, if you didn't know Facebook ads and YouTube ads. If you didn't make your money in T VOD, and just try to throw it on a VOD or let's say you just want to throw it on Amazon Prime and left it there. You you might have been able to make some money with it. But it wouldn't. It this story could have gone wrong in multiple places, multiple.

Mark Toia 1:32:03
But I didn't want it to fail. And if it was going to fail, I wanted to fail with my own hands. I didn't want it to fail on someone else's hands. Because then I would have kicked myself stupid for allowing myself right to let it fail with no because if I'm if I'm going to put no effort into selling that film, I get some years sitting back down. Are they going to do everything for me? Because they told me they're going to do $2,000 in marketing for the PR and they told me they're going to spend six grand here and, and and the movies gonna blow up. Right? Right. I knew that was bullshit. Because I'm in the advertising world. I know that's complete other shit. I mean, like, six grand, don't get you shit. Nothing. Nothing. And online news. You know, when you hit the PR companies and they put stuff on all those fucking Oh, the PR web things? Yeah, yeah, no, talking, no one reads that crap. Come on. No one in how do you how do you even justify monetizing it? You know, it might end up in variety. And it's like poof, gone. It's like, got you know, it's,

Alex Ferrari 1:33:09
I hope this conversation inspires and scares the shit out of people at the exact same time because it is definitely an anomaly. It is a cautionary tale. It's an inspirational tale. And this is the reality of where we are in the world right now. And where we are going as filmmakers. That's why I wrote the book. So we have a fighting chance. Because in the book, you read it, you know, you've got to execute things in order for it to work and you've got to do a lot of work. That's not the filmmaking part of it. It's not the working with actors and getting in the edit room and go into the premieres. That's another part. But in today's world, filmmakers need to do the next part if they want to survive as filmmakers. That's just unfortunate. I don't I don't make the rules. These are the rules. And unfortunately, this is where we're going. Mark, I do want to appreciate your time. Brother, thank you so much for coming on the show again, and being so candid and open with us. And I hope this does help some filmmakers out there. So thank you again, my friend and continued success and let you keep me updated on where you are in the world and what you're doing.

Mark Toia 1:34:11
No worries, Alex, have a good day. It's always good to talk to you mate.

IFH 611: How I Got My Vampire Film Released by Sony with Jessica M. Thompson

Jessica Thompson is an Emmy-nominated filmmaker who made her feature writer-directorial debut with “The Light of the Moon”. The film won the Audience Award for Best Narrative Film at the SXSW Film Festival. “The Light of the Moon”, starring Stephanie Beatriz (Brooklyn Nine-Nine, In The Heights, Encanto), enjoyed a limited theatrical release to sold-out screens in both New York and Los Angeles and heralds a 97% Rotten Tomatoes score. Critics called the film “harrowingly effective” (Variety), “honest and complex” (The Hollywood Reporter), and Film Inquiry stated, “for any filmmaker this would be an unmitigated triumph, but for a first time filmmaker this is revelatory.”

Jess was the lead director on Showtime’s original series, “The End”, produced by the Academy Award-winning See-Saw Films (The Power of the Dog, The King’s Speech). “The End” is a dramedy, told through three generations of a dysfunctional family who are trying to die with dignity, live with none, and make it count. The series received five-star reviews from The Guardian and The Times.

In 2021, Jess directed her second feature, “The Invitation”, a Sony Picture’s thriller-horror, written by herself and Blair Butler. It will have a worldwide cinematic release on August 26th, 2022.

After the death of her mother and having no other known relatives, Evie (Nathalie Emmanuel) takes a DNA test…and discovers a long-lost cousin she never knew she had. Invited by her newfound family to a lavish wedding in the English countryside, she’s at first seduced by the sexy aristocrat host but is soon thrust into a nightmare of survival as she uncovers twisted secrets in her family’s history and the unsettling intentions behind their sinful generosity.

In 2010, Jess founded Stedfast Productions, a collective of visual storytellers who use film to explore the complexity of the human story.

Jess is an Australian filmmaker who resides in Los Angeles. She is repped by CAA, Kaplan/Perrone Entertainment, and Independent Talent Group (UK).

Enjoy my conversation with Jessica M. Thompson.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Jessica M. Thompson 0:00
You have to keep going, you have to keep trying. Because you know, if you became you know, I think it's like a professor or whatever, you know, if you could change something else, you will never love it as much as you love filmmaking, you will never feel completely satisfied. So really what kept me going always kept making waking me up in the morning. And don't get me wrong. There were some days where I really like I really didn't get out of bed. Like I was like, just like, I had a big no, after working so hard for free. And that's something else that they don't tell you, especially with directing how much work you do for free before you get a job.

Alex Ferrari 0:30
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book, Rise of the Filmtrepreneur how to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com. I'd like to welcome to the show. Jessica M. Thompson. How're you doing Jess?

Jessica M. Thompson 0:45
I'm doing great. How are you doing?

Alex Ferrari 0:47
I'm doing great. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I am excited to talk about your new project the invitation which is just insane. It's insane. It's beautiful. I want to talk to you about production design. I want to talk about how you got that. Everything I want to talk about all that stuff, because it obviously wasn't done for five grand. So

Jessica M. Thompson 1:05
I've moved on. I've moved on in the world from my little indie films that I made for, you know, $100,000.

Alex Ferrari 1:11
You know what, but that that those are the ones those are the ones who get you started. And you probably learned you've learned Christ so much in that $100,000.

Jessica M. Thompson 1:20
Oh, no. And I actually do think that restriction helps you be more creative. You know, like, you've got to stretch that bother you got budget, you've got to make it work, you know, and that's why indie filmmakers, so entrepreneurial, you know, there's so they'll make any budget stretch.

Alex Ferrari 1:35
I mean, you have to I mean, there's no choice in the matter, kind of like you're against the wall when you're an independent filmmaker, because, you know, there's no one's show, there's no as as Mark Two plus as the Calvary is not coming.

Jessica M. Thompson 1:46
That's right, it's you. And that's why I mean, I'm sure it was my first film, I was like the writer, the director, the editor, the producer, I also was the Social Media Manager, I did the posters, instance you end up wearing every single hat. But by that, by that, what's great about that, as you get to know every single aspect of the industry, you know, and so that makes you better informed. And so that's why I always whenever there's like, executives that I meet with and they're a little bit hesitant about hiring an independent filmmaker to do either TV or whatever. I'm like, You don't understand how you know, we're scrappy, scrappy, resourceful, you know, independent filmmakers, if you need to film you know, seven pages, eight pages, nine pages in a day, we'll do it.

Alex Ferrari 2:24
There's no question. No question. So my first question is how and why in God's green earth? Did you want to get into this insanity that is called the film industry?

Jessica M. Thompson 2:33
I mean, that's a great question. But to be honest, I was. I come from a family that is not you know, in the creative arts by any means. My mom, first generation Australian, my mom is from a tiny little country called Malta. And yeah, so we grew up very much blue collar roots. She's a single mom, I have three siblings, you know, and I at 12 years old, I watched Brave Heart. And I decided, I want to tell stories. on film,

Alex Ferrari 3:01
How old were you when you watch Braveheart?

Jessica M. Thompson 3:03
Well may may 15 Yeah, I can't remember the year but made me think that I was 12 years old. It was one of those blockbuster Fridays, you know, where you every family goes down to Blockbuster and picks them here in the new big here. It was like Braveheart. So we all watched it. And because like I said, I was the youngest of four right before the end. My mom was like, Jess, she paused it and was you know, I can spoil Braveheart. Everyone should have watched it. But right before William Wallace gets like hung drawn and quartered. She pulled it she's like, Jess, you're too young for this go to bed.

Alex Ferrari 3:34
Really? Now. Now?

Jessica M. Thompson 3:35
I was like, no, no, you can't do this to me. And so as I say, as we say, in Australia, I checked the tanti like fruit and stormed upstairs and I had this I did this crazy thing where, you know, there's big old school alarm clocks. This is before the internet came before mobile phones, yeah. Before iPhones or whatever. So I set my alarm clock to 230 in the morning, and I put it inside my pillowcase. And it so that it would wake me up at night, wake up the rest of the house. And I crept downstairs, and I rewound it and had to rewind because it's VHS, and I had to like not watch what happened around it and watched it. And then I was just I was like, that's it. I want to that's it. The story just moved me so much. I just wanted to tell story. So I opened up the Yellow Pages.

Alex Ferrari 4:21
How is that possible? You look like you're 20 my dear. How is that possible? You don't even know what a yellow?

Jessica M. Thompson 4:27
I'll take. I'll take that. I'll take the couple of bucks. But yeah, so I opened up the Yellow Pages. And I looked up Film, film schools, like in film, like, you know, places to go to. And like I said, we grew up on welfare like I didn't, you know, we had, luckily the government of Australia is very, you know, kind to its citizens. And, you know, and my mom couldn't afford it. So I went to work at Toys R Us to pay for my screenwriting classes by acting classes, my directing classes, and I've never looked back. I've never wavered.

Alex Ferrari 4:55
So the fascinating part about that story is that at the end, is when your mom said you No, I think this will be a little bit too much for you, not the not the decapitations, or the legs being cut off, or any of anything.

Jessica M. Thompson 5:08
No horse dying.

Alex Ferrari 5:12
The horse dying

Jessica M. Thompson 5:14
100 horses that died out.

Alex Ferrari 5:16
You know what's so funny about that movie that horse dying sticks out in so many people's head even though it's a fake course, obviously. But it sticks out in people's head more than the 1000s of men. Well, you know, that was?

Jessica M. Thompson 5:28
Well, you know, Francis Ford Coppola with apocalypse. Now, that whole scene where he picks up the Labrador puppy, and they hold the gun to its head. That's the thing that people remember. And like, you know, in his whole point of putting that in was like, we have become so desensitized to the death of humans and the violence against humans. And it's such a great way visual way to tell that and of course, as soon as that happens to everyone in the theater, I mean, I was, I am a bit too young. I did not watch that in the theaters.

Alex Ferrari 5:53
But then, when he was when he was slicing, I think they were killing it. Was it the calf or the cow while they were killing? Marlon Brando? Again, sorry, spoiler alert, guys, if you have, it's not our

Jessica M. Thompson 6:03
Failure on movies that everyone listening to this podcast would have listened to it, I would have watched it.

Alex Ferrari 6:08
If they haven't. It's not my fault that these are prerequisites. These are prerequisites. So alright, so when you when you started going down this journey, I'm assuming coming from Australia, the Hollywood just called you right and just said, Hey, can you come over? Do you want and how much money works.

Jessica M. Thompson 6:25
So like, you've got like a really great accent. Let's like you're here, you're in New York. So what happened was at 18, I went to film school in Australia called University of Technology, Sydney, they have a really good film film program that was super hard to get into. I was the only kid from that side of town, just I know, people listening might be more American skewed. But I come from like the not pretty Bondi Beach part of Sydney, basically. So I used to have to commute to university an hour and a half there an hour and a half back. Yeah, but I was with all these posh yuppies, whose parents were in the film industry already. So I already hadn't had to, you know, compete with these kids. And I just put my all into it. You know, we went to a technological film school. So we had access to 16 millimeter cameras, we have access to digital, you know, everything I learned to edit on a Steenbeck originally, you know, and that was just to show us the trade. That's not because of my age. Yeah, you know, and so we made a film almost every month, like you had access to every URL to, you know, you know, industry standard equipment, and recording studios and things like that. So you're encouraged to use that as much as possible. And I just did, I just dived in and like, did it. And it's through university, through film school that I really fell in love with editing. And I realized how important editing is to, you know, to crafting a story. It's basically, you know, the three storytellers, the writer, the director, and the editor, you can make a completely different film in the edit room, right. So so then I just, I looked at some of my favorite directors, and a lot of them have an editing background like you know, Jordan, Cohen, Kurosawa even you know, like so I decided after that to go into editing, it felt like a bit more of a clear path and doing the production hustle. That being said, I've also done you know, production managing and things like that. But yeah, so I got into editing climbed up the ranks, only doing commercials and music videos at that point. Did one documentary and then and then I kept applying I kept making short films. I kept applying for grants in Australia you most things get done through the government there which is called Screen Australia. It's like our I don't know it's like really anything to get anything made in Australia. And I just found I couldn't I couldn't break in in Australia. I couldn't it's a smaller industry obviously. But we have a lot of American productions that come down there which is great you know, we have the doors and you know, the Batman's whether they go but come down there and shoot our commands and stuff. So but that's not really if you want to be a writer director. That opportunity Yeah, because it's the they're gonna bring the American directors and stuff so

Alex Ferrari 9:02
So let me ask you because your path is similar to mine because I started in the editing world as well. That's how I learned the AVID. I did Steenbeck I thought it was the

Jessica M. Thompson 9:11
I did the I did the AVID as well. I can say that was nice. Just for like, you know,

Alex Ferrari 9:16
It was in my school they taught me they taught me our dad taught me nonlinear editing, online editing. And then they took me to a Steenbeck I'm like, Are you just what you savages? Like what is this that you want me to film with a scissor or razor and it was just it was mind blowing to me like and you want me to put tape on and if I'm kind of on the fence, but if you really liked the cut you glue it are we like how is like it would blow my mind

Jessica M. Thompson 9:47
And to do a crossfade you like actually like crossfade it? Oh my god,

Alex Ferrari 9:52
What is what is going on? By the way I have to ask I have to ask because in America in every film school in the country when You use the Steenbeck you always use the same footage. It was just stock footage, the same one. It was an episode of Gun Smoke. No, that was Was it okay. I was wondering what that was. Because every from USC to NYU to my little school down in Orlando, they all used the Gun Smoke it because when I talk to other editors or other filmmakers, I kind of see my digital gun smell. Yeah, that's what we did.

Jessica M. Thompson 10:26
Guns. Mike is getting some residuals from this. But nothing smokes it.

Alex Ferrari 10:31
Okay.

Jessica M. Thompson 10:33
We had to, we shot on it was our own films, we stop and fix. Oh, wow.

Alex Ferrari 10:38
Yeah. So yeah, so I did the same thing. And I because I wanted to be a director. So I was like, I'm gonna go through the editing process, because that's like, I don't want to be on set because I did the set thing. And waking up at three o'clock in the morning for like, 50 bucks to be a PA and then just sitting somewhere in the not even near set in the mud somewhere, driving, telling people where to park that's like, this sucks. This is not well.

Jessica M. Thompson 10:59
And also, when you think about it with editing, you're one step away from the I mean, you're right there, you're working with the directors, you're working with the producers, actually. So therefore, you know, when you're a PA or you know, you're so far you never meet those people, you never even get to interact with them, though. It's great experience. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should pay the dues. And you know, you know, work on sets as well. But I think it's like, I don't know, I found editing to be a bit more of a clear a defined path for me. And also, I mean, it's an incredible skill to know, and it helps you as a director. So

Alex Ferrari 11:28
Massively, it massively helps you as a director. So let me ask you that, how did you make the trip? How do you make the transition from Australia to the US? What what was that? Because I think that's where the interesting part is in your story, because you had to come up. It was tough in Australia, but now you're a little fish in a very big pond out here. So how did you make that transition? And how did you even just get work and survive?

Jessica M. Thompson 11:50
Yeah, so I was 24. When I moved over to the States, I got to LA for six weeks and was like no, not for me. At the time, I now do live in LA but at the time, LA is a brutal place when you don't know anyone I literally knew nobody in the state 00 connections. I started to go on a road trip for nine months. And I visited 40 states and all a lot of Canada, Canada as well. And I filmed this was during the 2009 kind of financial crisis. And I shot a little like kind of documentary road story, meeting some of the people that I met, you know, on the way and things like that never finished that. So, but it was really fun. I really got to know I think the US, you know, my new my new home, and I landed in New York, it was a bad decision in that I really used up a wall with my money on that road trip.

Alex Ferrari 12:39
Don't beat yourself up. You're 24 We were already there.

Jessica M. Thompson 12:41
And I slept I slept in the back of my car. I like made a very, you know, I did it. I did a very low key. But yeah, I got to New York and New as the second I made in New York. I was like, this is this is my home city. I love this place. And yeah, like I said, move there with very little money. And I because I had these skills of an editor. I started to get freelance work as a commercial editor. But of course, knowing that I wanted to kind of transition into features. So I actually took a step back in my career and took an assistant editing job with Liz Garbus. The, you know, she's done a lot of great documentaries. She did the Nina Simone one recently on a HBO film called there's something wrong with that, Diane. And then what was great is she brought me into her next film, which was called Love mountain and and that was actually a narrative documentary hybrid. And so he brought me into edit that one. So then I got to, you know, a new that I started to get. Yeah, so then I was off. So then I started to get a lot of editing. And being a bit which is a bit easier for women documentarian and filmmaker in the industry and the feminists are definitely like, much more common and more accepted. So it felt like a little bit easier to break in, in that regard. And I feel documentary and narrative. They're all storytelling right there to me, they're not we put such a divided between them, but especially in terms of editing because you just get all the footage and then they're like, Okay, make a story. Like, okay, so with the, for instance, the Greg Louganis documentary that I edited HBO Yeah, like that had archival from like multiple Olympics. And I should say my brother was an Olympian. So that's why I was really interested in like this, you know, what happens to our Olympians once they've kind of done and especially when, you know, Greg, being queer and HIV positive, he really didn't have an easy go though. He's like, the best diver in the world. So I was really interested in that story. But then we had sit down interviews, then we had buried a footage and it's literally like, craft the story. And that was really, you know, in terms of screenwriting, that's a really incredible process to go through. You know, it's a really great skill to know. Yeah, and then basically, I felt I'd made another short film in New York, and then I felt ready. I had written a lot of the moon I realized a lot An idea is actually bigger than a lot of them. They're shocking, shocking, shocking. So a lot of them are more sci fi or more genre based. And I have a joke that my friend that I made day one of film school color below, where he's produced all of my short films and produced the light of the moon with me. And he I have enjoyed that. He said to me, Okay, Jeff, you've got two characters in six locations now, right? Something like, he was like, you keep writing things that are just too big to make, like

Alex Ferrari 15:29
45 locations five, five company moves in a day? Yeah, got it.

Jessica M. Thompson 15:33
Yeah. Yeah. So he's like, that's all that's all we'll be able to fundraise, you know, so we did this, I did that then a lot of the men came to be, unfortunately, because it happened to a friend of mine. And and I said to her, I haven't seen this story told in an authentic way, you know, about a woman's recovery and about how it affects her relationship to work. But also, when she really doesn't want to be the label of a survivor or victim. Like she's like, No, she just wants to, she wants to keep a sense of humor. She wants to like, you know, she doesn't want her friends to worry about it like, and I just thought that was a really interesting modern story. And one that had not been very well. So I wrote it. And then And then yeah, we made it from $100,000.

Alex Ferrari 16:14
And you know, it did its job because it got you your new film the invitation. But before we get to the invitation,

Jessica M. Thompson 16:21
I want to say that everybody in that in we'll get back to that every single person who in the light of the moon, I'm so glad that their star has risen because of that film, from the producers, to the actors to the you know, to the hair and makeup artists. Everyone you know, I love that when you when you everyone puts their heart and soul into something and it really pays off. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 16:39
Now you also did the apprenticeship on The Handmaid's Tale, which, to be fair, not a bad apprenticeship. I mean, if you're going to do one, I would have liked that that would be nice. So

Jessica M. Thompson 16:51
What I told my rep, I mean, so that was the light of the moon and I met my managers at South by Southwest, which I really was ill prepared for like, I did not realize how much film festivals I just like a meat market. Sorry, I should say that.

Alex Ferrari 17:04
It is at the top guys like Sundance South by Tribeca, like some of the big boys. They are something like that. But yeah, if you got a movie in there, you'll get.

Jessica M. Thompson 17:12
Yeah, you also and we sold the film at the festival, which sometimes doesn't happen. We were very fortunate that it did happen to us. So you're having those meetings, you're meeting lots of managers. And I was like, Whoa, this is like I thought I was just gonna go and watch 100 movies. No, I saw like three films. It was so sad. Yeah, so I met my reps there who have just been incredible supporters of mine. And I said to them, I really want to do an apprentice and I want to do it on The Handmaid's Tale, and they made it happen. Now I will say like as glamour it was fantastic. And I really like helped me. And, you know, it was an incredible experience. But what they don't tell you is that you pay your way you pay for the flights you pay for your accommodation. It's expensive and it's really it shows you how classes this industry is you really so I really went into the red that year. And I'm very grateful that because I came up in commercials that I had a little bit of savings behind me but I'd really I mean, I'd maxed out my credit cards to make the film. I donated my eggs. To make the film

Alex Ferrari 18:10
I found another one I had a I had a filmmaker who came on to donated her eggs and Sanyo Hara of course Anya Yes, she was in life. She was in my last movie. She was the star of my last movie.

Jessica M. Thompson 18:21
Yeah, she's my best friend.

Alex Ferrari 18:24
Sonya is amazing. I love it.

Jessica M. Thompson 18:26
Yeah, but we did it. We actually donated our eggs separately, did not know each other and then met and we were like, Hey, you must be the only other person to have done.

Alex Ferrari 18:35
So So what were some lessons you picked up on The Handmaid's Tale, because that's a heck of a set to be on.

Jessica M. Thompson 18:40
Yeah, I mean, it was really like that scaling up of all the ideas that you have, right. So it's like, you know how to do it, you know about doing it on that scale and doing it with that timeframe doing it with that amount of departments that amount like this. So many people, it's like such a well oiled machine, that show an actor's really know their characters inside and out. So a lot of your work as a director, if you're coming in episodically is already done in terms of, you know, your actor, it's not like you're doing extensive rehearsals or anything like that, because unless there's a specific scene that's like a little bit novel or something. So, yeah, I mean, I learned so much about the pace of TV, and like, and how quickly everything news and how well I mean, I learned how your first ad can really make or break a day like news like that. Oh, yeah. And really saw that come into action. You know, it's basically taking what you know, and doing it on a small you know, obviously, we had 15 days to shoot the London and so then going from that and scaling up and having, you know, five days in 12 days and episode for an hour, you know, 13 days an episode is like such a joy in such a you know, but you've got to make sure those days are running really smoothly. Yes, I learnt a lot I'm gonna learn about Michael Parker, who was the director I was shadowing was an absolute legend. And he really kind of showed me his process and how we goes about kind of formulating the story cracking the story of figuring out. And also, you know, the biggest thing I learned was that the scripts come in the morning. And it's crazy that like, to me, I've always had the privilege. And luckily, even with my TV series, the end that I did sound stress had written every single episode before I even came on board. So that's, that's a big privilege in the TV industry, you know, and a lot of the time you're, you've got the idea of the episode, you're told, they were like, you're told what kind of locations you'll need. But you quite often won't have a final script or the morning that you're shooting. And that I told me that I have to kind of relinquish control sometimes and just go with the flow.

Alex Ferrari 20:40
Wow, that's yeah, it's, it's, I've been on many sets on direct TV sets. And it's, it's amazing how insane it's a well, it's organized chaos, in so many ways, because everybody knows what they're doing. The machine is running. But stuff like that happens. You just like, and then the actors just go, they just learn their lines quickly. And I mean, isn't it wonderful? Because I mean, you've worked in the indie space, and you've worked with in the professional like really high end professional space. It's been a wonderful when you get to work with like, quality professional actors, that just Oh, yeah, that you just don't have to, like, learn your lines, man. You know, your mark, man. Like none of it. That's all they just know what they're doing. You basically are just there to capture the lightning, as I say.

Jessica M. Thompson 21:24
I mean, consummate professionals, it really does make a difference right?

Alex Ferrari 21:29
Now, when you first walked on a set as a director, in a professional manner, not your indie project, but in a professional set of a television show something, what was that day like for you, because at that point, you've already got a handful of hours under your belt, you know, you know, hundreds of hours, probably under your belt of being on set one way, shape, or form, plus all your experience in the editing room. But that first day, when they're like there's a check at the end of the week for you. And you're walking and you're like, I gotta run this whole thing. And these guys all know, hell a lot more than I do. Probably. What was that feeling? Like?

Jessica M. Thompson 22:05
I mean, first of all, I never sleep the day before. So it's just I always try I try every technique, I get the lavender scented candle down. And I you know, you know listening to hypnosis and sleep stories and things. It doesn't matter, none of it, I take a yeah, all the melatonin and none of it works. I will just I just know now that I will be up all night. And it's fine. Because the next day you just done pure adrenaline, right? You have it that first day was probably was on the set at the end. And I mean, it's such a it's your, your heart is buzzing, you're you're just saying what the smell of your face. But also there's like a nervous energy, there's a nervous, you know, anticipation, to, you know, your all the things that you've been working towards, or the things you've been studying over, or that now it's coming into play. And I can feel you know, there's this kind of it happens on every set, where the kind of executives and the producers they all kind of lean in a little bit. They're all a little bit like, Okay, this you know, we know this one was incredible. We really love her work, but is she does she have the goods and then I love that throughout that first day when that first like kind of take and at first, you know, the scene starts to come together, and whatever. And I love feeling that relaxed moment where everyone's just like, Oh, she knows what she's doing.

Alex Ferrari 23:22
Okay, good. She knows what a camera is. She knows what an actor is fantastic.

Jessica M. Thompson 23:25
Yeah, she knows how to make it look great. She knows how to get the right performances. Fantastic. And so I love when there's that moment when I feel that element of trust is like, okay, she got this.

Alex Ferrari 23:35
So let me ask you, because so, so many people don't talk about this. And this is something I love talking about on the show, the politics of the set. Nobody talks about the politics of this, especially when you're a young director, someone coming in for the first time when you're dealing with some of these veterans on set. I had a script supervisor who was questioning me on set when I was on a job. And I had already been directing for quite some time. But she didn't know my resume. This is pre internet as pre IMDB. So nobody knew that, you know, just to see as young director, and she was giving me crap every second and she was questioning me in front of other people every second. And she had been around forever and I had to deal with I had to pull her aside. I'm like, look at you know, either get on board or get off the set. And I had to put her in her place. And then with after the first day, we I think we had it this is an insane amount of setups, but I must have done between the two cameras about 70 or 80 setups. And in a 10 hour day, I move really really quickly. And because of being an editor, I just, I just know what I need. So I just have probably at the end of the day, I found out that the producer had sent her in as a spy, to make sure I was doing it Ken is this guy capable of doing this job? And then at the end, she's like, No, he's perfectly fine. You could do the job. But this is the kind of stuff that you've got You don't talk about so how did you I'm assuming in your career, there's been a one or two times that some a crew member, a DP or a production designer or scripts, or first ad, push back or their ego got out of control, and you had to kind of step up, what was that like and how you deal with those kind of political situations.

Jessica M. Thompson 25:21
I mean, it's luckily the more and more that I've gotten on and then less and less that happens, which is fantastic. But yes, there was definitely something a little bit I'm sure the structure but like young filmmakers and female filmmakers, I don't think I know it's crazy. But I come in and I'm pretty we have a word that bolshy, which I don't think really translates that bad. Like, you've got good stuff. I think I've got a lot of good stuff. So I think they I think there's a little bit of respect already that's done it but I will say the people that I have the usually have the biggest problem with his gafas. Yah, grips blessa. But for some reason gafas they usually come from these kind of old school. Tough guy on the set, yeah, got it. Exactly. Drinking beer out of there, like, you know, camo pack. And things I love to take the peace and love to shoot the cheered, I love to you know, I can, I can, you know, keep up with the best of them. But sometimes I just think there's a moment where it's, there's always been a bit of like, Look, you need to you need to, you know, chill out, and you need to like, listen to me, and you need to stop this. Luckily, I will say I've worked with incredible first, they think they have a real knack for picking a person ID. And I've always, you know, gotten along really, really well. My first they didn't have always had my back and always kind of helped me navigate those situations. And that's another reason why a first idea is worth their weight in gold, because they really protect the director from some of those situations. You know, and I will say in the commercial work because I do commercial directing as well. DPS in that are certain type of animal, and I cannot handle the talkback, I cannot and I have a like now I just have a no alcohol policy. So if someone is really doing that, then no, I don't have time for you, like, get off my set. And you know, luckily, I'm in a position where I'm allowed to do that. But even even with the invitation, you know, there's always there's always here's what, here's what I say I'm so good at picking my hods I made sure that we have such similar tastes and sensibilities, I look at their bridesmaids. I love what they do. And I make sure that, you know, we've got we've got, it's like a mind meld, right. But there's always going to be focused on at the time we disagree. And I think that those 5% is really telling of a person's character and personality. When how because I love to collaborate. I love to I want to hear your ideas and why you want to do it that way. And at the end of the day, I'm the director, like, you've got to, you got to, you got to do what I say. And so that was you know, and I won't name names, but there was some times aren't even on this set, where I was like, Oh my gosh, like we just at the end of the day, I understand where you're coming from, but this is where I'm coming from, you need to just do it. But it is it is odd and I wish it's getting like I said it's getting less and less. And I really do respect everyone having their own in their opinions, but it's when it's in a disrespectful manner. And I will say I want to put shout out to the Hungarian crews most respectful crew up there in Australia and America nothing compared to the Hungarian cruise. I was like wildly impressed with how much respect that and then you got it you can imagine that it's a very male dominated crew. It's still I never felt like anyone was didn't think that I was capable or you know, everyone, everyone really respected me that even called me Madam Director, which I thought was a fun.

Alex Ferrari 28:38
That's actually adorable. I love that. I would like to serve director that would be nice.

Jessica M. Thompson 28:44
I was like guys need to stop. I've no no keep going.

Alex Ferrari 28:47
But no by you please more more of that, please. No, it's important to put these kinds of stories out there because a lot of directors will walk on set not even know that this is a situation that because I remember when I first got on set, and I had to address something like that I wasn't prepared. I just you're just not told about this. You don't have the tools or the ammunition to kind of deal with it. And if you've got an older you know, you got a gaffer who's been in the business for 40 years is like when I worked with Coppola. I'm like, What do you like? And you're like, 25

Jessica M. Thompson 29:19
Yeah, exactly. And that there was a reason why you've been hired right? There's a reason was because the the producers they trust on your vision, you know, someone or the financier is or whoever it is someone you are the person with the goods, right, and you're the person that hires all these people. So I think as long as they there's great respect and I you can tell straight away when someone respects you or not. So I mean, I find it pretty early on, if I feel like someone's gonna be a problem like and I've never, you know, it's only happened once where and it wasn't like a big wasn't a gap or anything, but I could just tell that it was like, someone in the camera team wants that. I was like, No, this guy he won't look me in the eye. He won't, you know, he like kind of mumbles every time I asked him something, you know, I'm like, we need to replace him. Like it's just not gonna work right, right. But mostly, mostly people were so excited to make films people want to, you know, succeed in your vision, especially if after like after a couple of days and they realize that you're, you know, you're not doing the stock standards. Why move close, like or something and I feel and I feel

Alex Ferrari 30:18
Isn't a fun isn't it fun when you put when you push as a crew and you're like, Okay, well, so we're gonna do we're gonna do the shop like Kubrick did, like, oh, it's like, you know, and you'll end up only using about three seconds of that of that 32nd shot. But yeah,

Jessica M. Thompson 30:31
Exactly. I know, we have this incredible crane shot. And then we go to a ronin handoff and do so joyous when you get this, like the CRO crew working together seamlessly. And the act is knowing that. Yeah, but also like the energy in the room when you finally achieve it. Without one, you know, it's

Alex Ferrari 30:49
It's remarkable. Now, is there anything that you wish someone would have told you at the beginning of your career? Like if you could have a chance to go back to the young Jess, listen to we just snuck down to watch the Braveheart ending. And go Look, honey, you're gonna be in the film industry. But this is you need to know this.

Jessica M. Thompson 31:10
Yeah, I mean, there was something that I would the first thing is, I wish I could just tell myself everything is going to be okay. Because I honestly used to get so when you know, and I'm sure you the same, like when you're working so hard on the script, and you get so close that you don't get it or you're pitching on a job and you don't get it and the amount of noes, right everyone thinks that, you know, your, your success, they look at your resume, because she's had like an ad or something like that. There's so many nose for every yes, there's like 100 nose, right. And I just wished because I used to get like so you know, upset and destroy and like wonder whether I was being a fool. And like whether I was chasing just a dream that was not going to eventuate I will just go back to school, but maybe you need to go through that right? And maybe you need that energy that I get up, get you up in the morning, but I wish I could just let go give me a hug and be like, it'll be okay. It's gonna

Alex Ferrari 32:00
Just keep going. Just keep going. You'll be fine. Yeah. So let me ask you.

Jessica M. Thompson 32:03
Also, though, stay stay true to your vision, like when someone is trying to push you or challenge you, or push you in a certain direction. Just if you in your gut know something is right, just really listen to your gut.

Alex Ferrari 32:15
So that's another question. I love asking people because I've asked myself this question after almost 30 years doing this. What keeps what kept you going in those times? What kept you going in the nose and the nose? And I'm assuming it wasn't like a month or two, it might have been a year or two could have been years where you, you maybe get a little win, but you've got like 400 losses, like and you just you question your I think I think every filmmaker worth is waiting in salt. Wood would say at one point or another in the career, is this the right path? Am I have I made a mistake? Is this worth the pain that I'm going through? How did you? How did you keep going?

Jessica M. Thompson 32:57
It's a great question. And I I want to let people know that even before so when we we missed the deadline for Sundance. So for for the light the moon. And so the next one was sapphire that I really wanted. And we submitted to South Bend we'd already found out that we got into Tribeca, but I really wanted South pie. And because we had that pressure of knowing that we got into Tribeca we tried to set us up by could you make a decision soon because we have to let you know we have to get back into turbo, another incredible festival but I really wanted South by and they told me that they would tell us before Christmas, which is a very early to know that you're going into a much festival, but in competition, and I was waiting I remember I was in Australia with my mom because my brother had just gotten married and mum and I were on a road trip and it was like I want to say December 22 or 20 Like it felt like before Christmas it was like getting down to the wire and I remember I had to pull over the car because we were driving. So I was burst into tears and I was like Is it too late to become a doctor like bombs like it's not Christmas yet. But then you'll never guess two hours later I get an American call on my cell Mike and I answered and we got in and we got into the competition so so I'm saying that happens even when you've made something that you know is good. It's still like you still have the all that doubt. But I think what got me through is sheer desperation. I never had a backup like I never was someone and I'm not saying you know that you shouldn't you know, everyone's path is different. But there was nothing else that I loved. Like there was nothing else that I could do you know, because so to me, it was like, you have to keep going you have to keep trying. Because you know if you became you know, I think it's like a professor or whatever you know if you could change something else. You will never love it as much as you love filmmaking. You will never feel completely satisfied. So really what kept me going right away kept making waking me up in the morning and don't get me wrong. There were some days where I really like I really didn't get out of bed like I was like just like I had a big no. After working so hard for free. And that's something else that they don't tell you, especially with directing how much work you do for free before you get a job. Like, it's insane. It's insane. The pictures, the amount, you know, the amount of effort the decks I'd made, you know, to get the end, I made like an 18 minute video, you know, I was like, and did like a montage of me speaking like, you know that this is how when you especially when you're starting out, right? You've got to put in so and then when you get to know at the end of doing all that,

Alex Ferrari 35:26
Or the buyer does or the money doesn't drop?

Jessica M. Thompson 35:29
Oh, you get it? Yes. And then the money doesn't come in or whatever. It's just brutal.

Alex Ferrari 35:33
It's me psychologically what we go through his absolutely brutal. So I love asking everybody from a young filmmaker, like yourself all the way to Oscar winners, everyone goes through the same process as everybody, everybody. No one is just born and thrown into the mix. They all have a level of it even even the Wonder kids like Robert Rodriguez when he's 23. You know, Orson Welles when he was, if you want to go back that far, but they all go through some sort of struggle even. Yes, most of us go through more straight.

Jessica M. Thompson 36:05
I knew, like, you know, I had this skill of editing, I knew that I could be an underdog. Like, I know, financially, I knew. I was like, but I knew that it wasn't a love, like, don't get me wrong. It's a joy. Editing is great, but it's not a deep love, you know, people who are real editors that like want to do that every single day. They've got like a deep passion for editing. And so I was like, okay, yes, sir. So I'm not going to be poor. That's not the problem. But the problem is, I'm not Am I ever going to, you know, get to tell the stories I want to tell you so.

Alex Ferrari 36:34
So let me because because this is something that only editors who turned into directors couldn't we can talk about this, I need some therapy myself. So we're gonna talk about this for a second. There's a thing about when I always said the same thing, I'm like, I need I always tell people advice when they're coming up, like what should i What job should I get, I go find a job inside the business or in the satellite of the business. So you can make connections, you can work with people, and making you know, and that kind of stuff, build those kinds of relationships. But as an editor, being in the edit room, I mean, I've delivered probably over 5060 movies in my day as an editor and colada color, I suppose supervisor, all that kind of stuff. Out of all the projects I've done on my IMDb, maybe three or four I enjoyed, like, truly loved the process. Love the filmmakers love. The rest of them are just a paycheck. Honestly, there is something about being so close to the process, and yet not being able to do it yourself. That is a frustration in that. And only an editor who wants to be a director can understand it. Do you feel the same way? Did you feel the same way?

Jessica M. Thompson 37:42
Not Yes, yes. Yes. Yes, yes. But I will say because I edited documentaries that it was and I really, and I don't have much of a desire to direct documentaries. I actually don't think I have any. Unless I mean, it depends. Maybe I won't

Alex Ferrari 37:58
Say that one that never got finished.

Jessica M. Thompson 38:00
Oh, that's why I didn't finish it. But like, Um, no, I've always wanted to direct narrative. So to me, I had that distinction because I so at least it was like a different part of my brain. Even though I truly believe that documentary narrative is all the same tool. It's all the same storytelling. It's got to start middle and end You know, it's got you know, the climax everything. But so to me, I at least never had that I want to do this i or i could do this better than you know. And, you know, this afternoon, I'm meeting up with Sheriff magenic, who's the director of back on board and so that shows you how much I loved editing that film with her. But yes, I really do especially in commercials. Okay, so, today is the day the light of the moon came out of the IFC here in New York, we you know, it was a limited release, we had 1010 or 12 cinemas around the States and North America. I was finishing up a water commercial. And they I needed to get down to the cinema like these. These people didn't know I was editing it. So these people didn't know that I had a feature film coming out down the road. And I needed to go and these people were what I am I like to swear on this podcast a little bit. Sure. Okay, okay, so I call it pixel fucking when just like people are just

Alex Ferrari 39:08
That's the term I use years ago.

Jessica M. Thompson 39:10
Yes. Because that's Yeah, yeah. And I was just, I was just like, I couldn't tell them that I couldn't do this anymore. Because I was like, and I'm not you know, I'm someone who usually is quite pleasant, but I was being so short like coming back and I literally I think I said in the room. I said in the room we're not curing cancer dies.

Alex Ferrari 39:28
Like it's enough. Oh, no, oh, no, that with commercials. You can spend weeks on on the shot of the bottle. And that just just tweaking and maybe a frame here and can we get a light there, maybe we could do a visual effect, just endless because there's so much money, they could just keep going and going. I was part of a project once that was six weeks for three commercials 3/32 commercials six weeks. I just we just have there all day waiting for clients to come in and move things here. Let's add that It was it was in absolutely insane commercials.

Jessica M. Thompson 40:03
Yeah, he's uh, yeah, so that's definitely like, but now um, yeah, I will say I really respect the edit that it has I worked with. And I think I think another thing that I don't know how you if you get their silence, but like, people think that I'm going to be really controlling over my editor. We're good. Yeah. But I'm actually the opposite. And like, No, I respect them so deeply because they are another storyteller. I literally said to Tom Elkins, who edited this, I was like, turn that director's cut like that first six weeks of that director's cut time is yours. Like, don't show me anything. You just craft the story that you can do whatever you want, and literally go with your gut, because you're going to then show me things that I didn't even think of editing that way. And that's the, that's the joy. And that's the, that's the collaboration. And he was like, wow, I thought you were gonna be like, over breathing down my neck. And I was like, No, you know, of course, there's going to be some stranger. I'm like, yeah, nice try, but let's like do it this way. But then I really, there was a couple of things, especially with the scares because he's like, you know, a horror aficionado and has, you know, edited a lot of big horror films. He really like showed me something that I that I knew I catch it, but like that, he showed me it in a different way, which was really incredible.

Alex Ferrari 41:12
And I and it doesn't editor, I always love handing off the grunt work of organizing all the dailies, and the bins. And like, that's brutal. So I'm like, when I actually sat down, like all the works done for me to Office is nice.

Jessica M. Thompson 41:27
I don't know, it's funny when, when, at the end of the end of the film, you know, the editor and the assistant editor know the movie so much better than you. And like, they'll be like, Oh, that scene 42 part. But I'm like, I remember being that person he like knew every single being in there every single file. And I you know,

Alex Ferrari 41:46
I'll tell you one quick story, that when you were talking about like we're having to work on a commercial than trying to get into direct doing the directing, at the same time with the pixel fucking, I was, I was posed supervising, coloring, and VFX supervising a 10 or $15 million show for Hulu. At the same time prepping an entire series that I was producing, my production company was producing, and I was directing. And there was and I told everybody what was going on. But then I had to overlap. So I would like my first day, I almost died. First day shot 12 hours, went home, had to edit, conform, export something up because Hulu wanted it. So I was and I woke up the next morning, just it's just it was I had to do that for two or three days. Because they overlap. And I needed to get that episode out in order to get it out for Hulu for that week. And it was just brutal and is one of the most brutal production times of my life. But it was just

Jessica M. Thompson 42:47
You have to go through it. But it's so hard to like be present, when present in the in the more survival job when it's so hard to be present. I remember one time I was at I was on like, a third date with a guy and I was transparent cards. So every like arrows, excuse me, gotta go. So I was literally we're at a bar. And but it was me and my house and I was like run back upstairs to transfer cars. And I was like, This is me trying to have a life.

Alex Ferrari 43:11
Well, that's amazing. Because he's like, look, I want to have I want to have to date but I got car transfers. I have to transfer parts. I'm sorry.

Jessica M. Thompson 43:18
Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's just gonna set an alarm every 45 minutes. And then but that's

Alex Ferrari 43:23
the insanity that we we were insane. I mean, filmmakers are insane. And artists are insane. In general, filmmakers are a different breed of insanity. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's just an absurd. It's an obsession. I call it the beautiful disease. Because once you get it, you can't get rid of it. Like you can't get.

Jessica M. Thompson 43:40
We torture out so then you can't get rid of it. Once you're done. You're done.

Alex Ferrari 43:44
You're done. You're done. Now, tell me about your new film the invitation. It is stunning. It looks beautiful. And now you mentioned Hungary, Hungary. So I was like, Okay, that makes more sense now, because I'm assuming this castle wasn't in Texas. So

Jessica M. Thompson 43:58
I made it. I built it all.

Alex Ferrari 44:02
The Marvel movie budget, you'd have a marvel? Yeah, absolutely. But tell me about it.

Jessica M. Thompson 44:06
Yeah. So yeah, the invitation you know, um, so it's about a young woman who's an artist down and out and in New York, and she just recently lost a mom and she does a DNA test and finds out she has a long lost relative. And he invites her to this lavish wedding and you know, basically everything goes away. It turns into a horror film. You know, it's about it's really like a mashup of genres, which is what drew me to drew me to the script, the initial script that Blair Butler wrote, and then we rewrote it together and kind of weapon it together. You know, I loved one that it was an origin story of the brides of Dracula, which I was like, I have not seen this and I want to make it you know, but also that to me, the metaphor was all laid in there in terms of like, sticking it to the man smashing the patriarchy, you know that but without hitting it over the head, you know, it was entertainment first and that's always what I want to do. Yeah, and, and then immediately, you know, one of the biggest things was I want to didn't need to be a woman of color. So I thought that added once again, another layer literally, it's the metaphor of rich eating the poor, you know, the upstairs downstairs world. And then, you know, having a lot of power adds another layer to that to that story of Dracula, what we're doing is saying he represents the pinnacle of the patriarchy. And he's got all these people in cahoots with him supporting him, which is how these people work. You know, Harvey Weinstein, although they did work in a vacuum, there was people who were keeping them up there. That's what the film was all about. Without like I said, Without belaboring the point. Yeah. And then I you know, so yeah, Blair and I worked on the script, really focusing on those character relationships, building the those arcs, those character arcs, and really grounding the dialogue. I really love naturalistic dialogue and humor, and you know, peppering humor throughout. And then yeah, Natalie Emmanuel came on board, who was always like, my top choice for the role, and I was so glad that she, you know, saw herself in a character. And then it kind of all snowballed from there. I mean, yeah. So screen James obviously, making it the screen job. So my first studio film took me about, I had to pitch it like four times all the different people there. And then it was right at the start of the last meeting, march 16 2020, before the world

Alex Ferrari 46:14
Stop for a second. So stop for a second. So now, everybody listening, you will now have a studio and I've had by the way, so many filmmakers have been on the show that's had this exact problem. I got to I got greenlit, and the entire world shuts down. And then of course, the filmmaker thinks, Why me, like, burning for like, but I want to shoot my movie were insane.

Jessica M. Thompson 46:37
Yeah, no, it's crazy. It's crazy. So literally, I would say like the last day birch, the president of Screen Gems, I want to say that the last thing was that he shook my hand and said, You got the job we did. And we fist bumps because pandemic and and he was like, okay, and now we're all shutting down Sony Pictures. So that was the last meeting, he took the last meeting I took about I got the official, you're the you've got the job. Luckily, though, because I still had to rewrite, you know, there's still work to do on the script. And we thought, you know, the pandemic is going to be three weeks or whatever, we'll be fine. So but it didn't give us time to really perfect the script and really, like kind of, you know, work on it. And then yeah, it took a little bit longer than I wanted it to to get it the green light to get it into production. But then, you know, we swung it to production. I think I flew over to Hungary in June of 2021. So not crazy, not a crazy like, wait.

Alex Ferrari 47:27
But and that's the other thing I hear from a lot of filmmakers. I went through this process of like, oh, we had all the time in the world to do a recut to pick up shots and figure out what we would do. So if they were in production, I had to stop, they can go back at it, like oh, you don't really need to do this, this. So they come and they kind of rewrote, so you had time, which is

Jessica M. Thompson 47:44
And I will say we got shut down twice during production for COVID, just two days each time. And I will say that one of them fell right in the middle of the shoot the 40 day shoot. And we had, so the whole crew got a long weekend. And I will say everyone came back refreshed. And I was like maybe we need to just put a four day weekend in the middle of every shoot. Because it really like you know, the energy checks. I think there is some point it taught us to slow down a little bit, which is maybe a good thing.

Alex Ferrari 48:09
Yeah, absolutely. Now, I always ask this question on the invitation. What we all have that day that the entire world is coming crashing down around us as directors. And I argued to say that's every day. There's something that happens like that. But there's always the one day that was just such a massive thing. What was the worst day? And the worst thing that happened to you on this and how did you overcome it?

Jessica M. Thompson 48:34
Yeah, I mean, I'm with you. Every day, there's always new challenge, right? And I love the challenges, they often end up becoming the biggest joy when you finally get through it. But I am like insanely well prepared and organized directly. So I think my challenges are usually pretty, like limited. Like, I'm not I'm not saying that it's just I'm like so insane on organization. I'm kind of a little bit micromanaging that way. But I will say there was a day that I came in, there was this ice out scene, and there was hardly any ice. And I was like, what how did this get miscommunicated it's literally called the Ice House. And then so we had to move all the ice from once and whenever I couldn't do like any wise because you know, which I love in epic wide. Yeah. So then everyone had to like move the ice from one side when we wanted to shoot on that side and the move that I saw that other side. And then also we definitely spoken about because we had three actors one who was a 65 year old woman you know, lying on top of these ice blocks and we definitely talked about having three blocks of faith is for them to do that and they did not show up. So I could not believe I had to ask my actors to do this. They were all willing to do it one of them though got so cold that we needed to take like you know, she almost got hypothermia, you know, she had to go get warmed up because she was that Britain lips was so blue, you know? So I just felt like it just felt like there was so many miscommunication that day. And I was just like it's so as a director you want to especially my any responsibility to the actors, you know, to make sure their life is easy to make sure they're safe. And they're happy. And so I just felt like it's just more like, I felt like I'd let them down. And that's hard for me is when it's especially when I know that it's even if it is my fault, like it easily isn't my fault. It's like, I hate having to let my actors down, for whatever reason. So that was a hard day, emotionally hard day because I was just like, and I knew as well it took longer to shoot, right, because yeah, I had to cut out some of the shots, though. And I still think the scene was beautiful. And it's absolutely effective. And it's great. But I just, you know, yeah, having to like stop every however long to move all these giant ice blocks was just like crazy.

Alex Ferrari 50:45
I have to I have to because when you were saying this a story came into my head when I was doing my demo reel, back in the day shot on 35 for commercials, right? We went with a club scene was supposed to be in Senate club, and you know, some sort of comedy bit Comedy Spot that I was doing. And we get there. And the the actress that my quote unquote, production manager was supposed to get me. They didn't show up. So it's a club scene. You need a Club member, you need people to be dancing and moving around. Even if it's by the bar, you still need like five people 10 people I can get into frame. And, and it was so bad. The footage was so bad because I was I was I was starting out I was just starting out as a director. I was so bad that I had to. Eventually I burned the paper in the negative and I had to reshoot the entire thing later and cost me another 10 grand and 50 grand out of out of my credit card to reshoot it. But I remember that I still remember the footage in my I still remember in my mind, seeing the dailies I'm like I can't I can't release this. This is horrendous. And it's just some time and I couldn't I couldn't overcome it that day. I just and I had to DPS to DPS to DPS. At the same time. Have you ever worked to DPS at the same time?

Jessica M. Thompson 52:00
No, because I mean, on a splinter unit but not

Alex Ferrari 52:04
On the day at the same time. I didn't know enough to say no to that. So I had to deal with two DPS, who were both egomaniacs and idiots and idiots lit the thing horribly. So these are hard lessons that cost me 10s of 1000s of dollars.

Jessica M. Thompson 52:22
That's what the thing is what people don't realize you put your name on this. So it's got a you know, you, the buck stops with you. So if it's not going to look good, that's all on you. You know?

Alex Ferrari 52:33
Let's give her the job anyway, because that the DP did a bad job.

Jessica M. Thompson 52:35
No, no, it's, it's, you know, that's why you gotta keep fighting, you have to always keep fighting. Now, when I've learned how to fight differently over the years, I should say, I realized that it's not always best to come in just guns blazing, like you've got to like, you know, there's, there's different techniques to fight. So it's like, if you know, something's really vitally important is, you know, I something that I've learned mine. And his process is that if someone has a crazy idea, you know, you've got producers, you've got executives, you've got bosses about you, you know, especially in the studio system, let them try it and let them fail. You know, it won't work. So you're telling them, this won't work because of ABC doesn't help them because they can't visualize it the way you can. So the best thing to do is to just take the time, isn't it sad that you have to tell your editor Look, I know, it's laborious, but do it and show them why it won't work otherwise, because me telling them they're just going to think I'm being you know, difficult and not wanting to participate. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 53:33
I don't know if you ever did this when you were editing. But I always used to love doing this. I would always throw a red herring into the edit. For the client. I would throw something that's so purposely bad a misspelling the cut, obviously was wrong, something that they would justify their position in the room.

Jessica M. Thompson 53:50
Yeah, I have. Absolutely. Always worked because they just have something to talk about.

Alex Ferrari 53:55
Give them like, oh, man, that cool. We got to cover that. Oh, thanks for catching that. I appreciate that very much. As opposed to like, it's perfect. And like then they start screwing with your cut.

Jessica M. Thompson 54:05
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Really happy. None of those people are listening to the podcast, but that's exactly what I do. Generally, leave that in there. Yeah. Means you know, absolutely. You know, put that in there. Let them comment on that because then they will ignore the other thing that I want to

Alex Ferrari 54:24
Get them something big to look at, but start a fire over here. So they ignore this. The bank robbery over?

Jessica M. Thompson 54:32
Exactly, exactly.

Alex Ferrari 54:35
When's the invitation out and when people get where can people see it?

Jessica M. Thompson 54:38
August 26. All around the world. 20,000 screens. Let's do it!I'm excuse me how many screens you can do is you know, 20,000 Wow.

I mean, I know Yeah, I think it's 3000 in the US is so and then I think it's like between somewhere between 15 to 20,000 in the in the world. My mom You know, it was really funny because, obviously, the love of the moon when it played in Australia, she had she lives an hour and a half north of Sydney, but also all the indie theaters are in Sydney. So she had to, like, you know, drive down and like, you know, make it make a day. She's like, Oh, do I have to do that? I was like, Mom, it's gonna be fine at the mall down the road. But I think she's like, at the mall. And I'm like,

Alex Ferrari 55:18
That's awesome. I'm so happy about that. Because it is genuine that indies but like non IP based movies in today's world don't get the kind of theatrical

Jessica M. Thompson 55:28
Original ideas, original ideas don't typically get and

Alex Ferrari 55:31
No, no, and you don't have Tom Cruise in it. So it's not like a massive, you have just, you know, really great actors in it.

Jessica M. Thompson 55:38
And I think Sony, you know, believes in the fact that they gave us a summer release date before we didn't finish shooting. I mean, they obviously really love the film. And I'm glad you know, they're incredible partners. And yeah, and so I'm excited to see how the world responds to that.

Alex Ferrari 55:52
Oh, my god, that's amazing. Congrats on that. And I'm gonna ask you a few questions. I ask all my guests. What advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today?

Jessica M. Thompson 56:01
Don't give up, persevere. Just keep going. Down the nose. Everyone gets nose. Don't you know what Hafele like, this is your this is your gotta hustle. You got to work. Although you got to work. All the jobs. I know. At the start. No job is beneath you. I'm sorry. At the start. No job is maybe of course if you're directing something, you should be really picky. You should have discernment. Absolutely. That's what I'm saying when you're just earning your stripes. Do it all do it all.

Alex Ferrari 56:30
I had I just had a guest on last week that they did wedding videos at the beginning.

Jessica M. Thompson 56:37
That was my number one. I'm sorry, I hadn't even mentioned that. I used to. I do when I moved to New York. I used to do very high end wedding videos for a lot of you know, kind of aristocratic New Yorker. And that was one of the my main gigs and I will say the chips from the father from the data the bride were fantastic. That's awesome. Yeah. Oh, and so I still to this day, I would be particular girl and class. I was always my favorite tequila. I steal from a client that I edited at that I directed never their wedding Do they still send me a bottle of tar sands every year. It was it was great to be honest. Because it's one day. And it's there's a lot of money in it. So it was just it was that's like you said you've either got to do jobs that are adjacent. So like editing jobs, that things where you can learn the craft and when you can build connections, or you need to figure out how to make the most amount of money with the little amount of effort so that you can focus on your writing and your filmmaking

Alex Ferrari 57:37
Absolutely absolutely no question. Now what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film industry or in life?

Jessica M. Thompson 57:45
I think I've still I've I think I've learned that yet. Patience.

Alex Ferrari 57:51
That's my number one number with patience so

Jessica M. Thompson 57:54
I'm definitely better than I was like, I used to have absolute, you know, fits crying fits when I was like 14 because I hadn't won an Oscar. No joke. I was like, so I've definitely I definitely am much calmer than I used to be as a human being, but I'm still learning. I'm still learning patients.

Alex Ferrari 58:14
And three of your favorite films of all time.

Jessica M. Thompson 58:19
Is I hate this question. So many today, okay, today, today, the shining Stanley Kubrick is always my number one horror, and I just I could watch that film every year. It's just every time it's a masterpiece.

Alex Ferrari 58:35
Did you did you watch? Did you watch it room two was a two to the documentary.

Jessica M. Thompson 58:39
I actually really I mean, but actually knew all those things. But I'm such a geek that I kind of knew all the little facts and and knew what was the one with you and McGregor actually thought was not awful. It's knowing

Alex Ferrari 58:51
Doctor sleep, actually, but it was good.

Jessica M. Thompson 58:53
I was better than I expected. I expected to be treasurer. So I mean, I was I was into it. Yeah, so the shining Ainley Brokeback Mountain. I've never had a film that I thought about for like, five days after that. I kept getting emotional about that. I was just like, why couldn't they be together? It was just one of those films that just like nearly moved me and broke, broke broke my heart. So you know that one for emotional reasons. And then the last one, I'm going to be douchey and say similarities. There's so much yeah, it's great. And I love the child in it and I just think it's like you know a classic that I love actually Oh, that even on the waterfront, they're out there also like they're all about even on the I just I love those guns. So those three are kind of they all go together.

Alex Ferrari 59:51
And like Sullivan's Travels, I mean, you could just watch that person. Any movies about making movies? I always love watching status.

Jessica M. Thompson 59:59
Absolutely. You're crazy what's crazy with all about it? He does that it still works now you can literally make all about it now maybe I should look into this, but like it actually is still extremely relevant. I love that.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:13
Jess it has been an absolute pleasure and honor talking to you. It's been so much fun. Congrats on your success and the invitation and I can't wait to see what you come up with next. I really appreciate you my dear.

Jessica M. Thompson 1:00:24
Thank you, Alex. It's been so much fun.

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