IFH 789: The Indie Filmmaker’s Journey: Curt Wiser on Creativity, Persistence, and Making Cam Girl

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:53
This week's guest is a writer, director, producer who is currently residing in Florida. Again, I want to feature filmmakers that don't actually live in either New York or LA. I think it's very refreshing whenever you have somebody that's not in one of those two spaces in North America or in the United States of America. I should say, you know, this guy's latest film, cam girl, is out now on DVD and through Amazon Prime. This is a very good conversation about writing without distraction, finding time to actually write, how he actually found an agent and manager and producer just by getting a script out there. And also, we talk about a lot about making this film, and how he actually did it on a shoestring budget. One location. We're gonna hear all about that good stuff with guest Curt Wise. Yeah, you know, you're in Florida. I forgot about that too, up until, you know, I started actually doing all the research for the podcast episode. Because I, you know, I always forget where everybody's from, because I meet so many people online. That's how you and I met. And I'm always like, Man, where does this person live? Well, in my world view, Kurt, they either live in New York or they live in LA, so, and they don't even live in Philadelphia, in my own worldview. So it's like, you know, that I forgot, I sometimes forget that there are other, you know, places besides New York and. La,

Curt Wiser 3:13
yeah. I mean, in fact, that's something I was thinking about. It's kind of weird how, even on the same coast, we're kind of like, in the same, I wouldn't say, predicament, but kind of just situation where we're kind of really close to these meccas in the film industry. You know, I've got Georgia just north of me, where all the tax write offs are. And I keep seeing the Georgia peach, you know, made in Georgia at the end of like, all TV shows. And Zombieland and and the Walking Dead. It's just like, man, so it's like, kind of a strange thing. It's just like calling me north or west or something. But so I don't know it's interesting thing to kind of navigate.

Dave Bullis 3:51
So let me ask you this, when you because you're an independent filmmaker in Florida, you know, do you notice, like in your in your area, in your town, is there like an interest in filmmaking, or are you sort of like the sort of needle in the haystack, so to speak?

Curt Wiser 4:09
Well, I'd say, and this is kind of interesting for aspiring filmmakers to know, is that, no, there's definitely a pretty prominent, you know, independent film industry. In fact, I'm sure that'd be the case in a lot of places like it's more there's an active interest, because it's not, it has more novelty to it, because there's not, you know, big productions everywhere, and you know, it's not like New York and and Georgia and California where, you know, it's, it's, it's not, for instance, for instance, if you have a location you're looking for, if you're trying to go to some coffee shop and you ask them, oh, go to film here, you know, it'd be like, Oh, we're making a movie. Would be like, Oh, really, that's interesting, you know? And, oh, yeah, you know, it'll have some, some, some clout to it. As opposed to, you know, New York. La, they'd be like, okay, it'll be, you know, X amount of dollars for one day, and hope, you know, or they'll say no, because they've been, you know, it's been a disaster before, where they've had film crews there that, you know, mess the floor, or whatever it is, you know. So I'd say it's an opportunity to get credits, to kind of get of experience, which I've definitely taken advantage of over the years now,

Dave Bullis 5:22
Yeah, it's one of the benefits. I always tell people, if they live, you know, in the Midwest or even in any sort of rural area, they have more benefits than they think, than they think they do, because you can just go out to somebody like a restaurant or a local business and at least approach them, and it'd be a little easier than say, if you're in LA and you say, hey, I really like your office or your restaurant, I'd love to film here. And they say, Oh yeah, you know, that'll be, you know, $5,000 a day. That actually happened to a friend of mine, by the way, he actually found this little deli that opened. I don't know why. It's not really a deli. It's more like a breakfast spot, but, but they he basically said, Hey, I like to film here. Well, they let him, you know, film there before they opened on, like, Sunday mornings, before they opened at like five or 6am and suddenly they started, like, charging a little more and then asking for a little more. And then finally they said, like, it was going to be like, $6,000 or something to film there. And he goes, What the hell. So you know, when you know guys like us, we live close by. I live very close to New York, about two hours away. You probably live, what? Two hours away from Georgia. You know, tons of stuff going on up there. We're right by the hubs of all this stuff. I also am about four hours away from Pittsburgh, which, which is a pretty big film hub. I living dead, man, yeah, yeah. Seriously, man, they're living dead. Dawn of the Dead. And even day that I, you know, funny, you mentioned that on day the dead, I actually met a guy, a filmmaker, who shot something where they shot Day of the Dead. And he was like, it was amazing, because it was just, you know, it's so remote and away from everyone else. And he and I actually was looking for a place like that when I was a part of this one, one film project, you know, because you listen to the show Kurt so you know that there's been so many projects I've been a part of that fault, it fall apart. So it's just, it's just, you know, and I remember these projects in passing, it's just like, oh, yeah, which one is that that fell apart? But I was doing this one, and I actually contacted them, and the person actually said to me that the woman who actually, like, who was the property manager, and she said, Oh, there's actually businesses here now. She's like, we don't want to actually keep having films here. She's like, it's not profitable. And there's, you know, there's so many businesses now, and there's like, a gravel place in here. Now, my God, damn, it always, always late to the party. But I don't know. I just thought that'd be like a little fun fact for people, in case they're huge Day of the Dead fans, the original Day of the Dead. So now it's a like a sand and gravel place is there?

Curt Wiser 7:49
You know what? I've always found it fascinating when I learned it is. I read a book, a biography, on Romero and my living dead, and it talked about how most people don't realize that that film changed how copyright law is, oh, yeah, because the, as the story goes, is they had the copyright notice, you know, a little logo with the title. And the original title was a night of the flesh eating ghouls or something like that. And when they got the distributor, got distribution lined up, the distributor took that title card away, replaced it, and when they did that, the copyright notice went away. And at that time, they didn't have it stated, you know, where copyright happens when it's committed to an existing medium. So that actually became a huge thing, and as far as I know, yeah, it's still in the public domain because of that, the original black and white, and they've tried to, that's why there's a colorized version and all this stuff, which they tried to regain the copyright. But in doing so, all it did is they have the copyright to the colored version and etc. So it's kind of unusual.

Dave Bullis 8:54
You know, they're actually, they found some extra footage now of my living dead, and they're actually planning on splicing it back together with the main part of it, and then that will be the next pitch to the copyright. I actually went to a new living dead screening probably about two or three years ago out in Pittsburgh, and that's one of the things that they were talking about. Was with the two it was with, you know, John Russo was there, Russ Steiner was there, and, but George Romero wasn't there, but, but everybody else was there. Was a ton of cash. Ton of cast members and stuff, and that was one of the things that they were talking about, was putting this, this one cut together, and that would be the new copyright pitch. Interesting. So, but, I mean, but, you know? And then that movie, obviously, as well, on the whole job, zombie genre, and it's just gone on to just, do you know, it's etched, Etched in time. Now, that's a classic, yeah, did you know George Romero is actually doing, did you hear it's called, like, I think it's called race of the dead?

Curt Wiser 9:51
No, yeah, like Death Race, 2000 meets living dead or something?

Dave Bullis 9:57
Yeah, Basically, what's gonna happen is, is, it's about these rich people have zombie races sold, and basically they have, like, they're like, they're zombies, and race cars and and now, like, you know, I mean, I hope it's better than the last few Romero movies, because, I mean, I actually had a, had a had a love, love, hate relationship with Land of the Dead. Diary Of The Dead was actually not bad, in my opinion. And then there was, like, what was the other one? It was like, the Hatfields and McCoys feud. There was, like, there was a feuding families. I figured, what that? I don't even know what that was called. I just tuned, tuned it out, but, but, but now, you know, we're gonna see race of the dead. So I can't wait

Curt Wiser 10:58
Yeah, I think the last one I remember was a diary that that was the one that was, like, found footage version of that kind of genre, right? Wasn't that, that one? Okay, yeah, so that's the last one I remember seeing. But yeah, now he's, he keeps going with it. I mean, that's your thing. That's your bread and butter. You keep you keep eating

Dave Bullis 11:21
because, I mean, it is George Romero. So what happens is, everybody, every so often. I mean, he even admits us in interviews. Every so often he'll get a random producer will come by and say, Hey, I have a, you know, a million or whatever to for you to make a zombie film. And he goes, Okay, and that's it. And that's how it gets, you know, it happens. I mean, you know, have you ever seen Romero's work outside of zombie films?

Curt Wiser 11:43
I don't think so. I saw the documentary on him, and I thought was really good. But no, I definitely, I've just known of, you know, his interview footage and the zombie stuff.

Dave Bullis 11:59
Yeah, it's actually, you know, pretty interesting. I actually, like a lot of this stuff, you know, like, Martin is a really interesting take on vampires. And I think what was the other one? I think it was called, like, Bruiser or something. I forget what it was called, but he actually, it was, you know, he also did, I think he did creep show. I mean, it's just stuff like that. It's like, you know, he actually has had, yeah, well, it was called bruiser. Now I think about it had Jason Fleming in it and, and it just, it's, I don't know. I do like his stuff, outside of all the zombie stuff. I think it's kind of cool how he ebbs and flows in and out of it. But, but, yeah, I mean, we, you can't really pass up a movie about, you know, George Romero about racing zombies. You know what I mean? So you have to, kind of, you can't have to, kind of see that movie to get it.

Curt Wiser 12:45
Do you know, if he resists that, though, do you think, like, deep down, he wants to do more? You know, he's got to do this romantic comedy that he's been wanting to do for, for 10 years, or something. Or, you know, you know what I really want to do, is it musical?

Dave Bullis 13:00
You know, if that, if he came out with a romantic comedy, I honestly don't think that his fans would know what how to respond to that. I mean, I would, I would definitely go see it. But, I mean, I think people will feel torn because like, well, this is the guy who you know, made, you know Day of the Dead, or Dawn of the Dead, and now he's making, like a another rom com, kind of, like, I don't know, remember those, all those rom coms that used to come out in the late 90s, early 2000s remember it was, like, every other month there it was always about, like, the very stressed out, successful business woman who meets this guy, and then, you know, you know what I mean. You saw the commercials like Hugh Grant was in, like, every single one of them. And you look at these commercials, you'd be like, well, these trailers, and you say to yourself, Well, Jesus, I wonder what's gonna happen in this film,

Curt Wiser 13:49
Yeah, or Jude Law Clyburn and stuff and all, yeah, it's very although closer was awesome. I thought closer was, you know, really good as far as those kind of movies go, Yeah, of course, that was based on a play so, and it was Mike Nick nickel, so, you know, it's, can't go wrong with that. But, uh, anyway, yeah, it makes me wonder that I asked that question because of Romero and the whole, you know, not wanting to get typecast in a way, just because, you know, it's something I'm having to consider now, because of the first feature camera was kind of like a suspense thriller. And very much, I think filmmakers realize, I know that was, my impetus is that's an easy way to break in, if any of it can ever be easy is, you know, you make a genre film because there's kind of a built in market for it. Same for like family film or faith based film, because there's just such a high demand. And it doesn't necessarily require named actors for a distributor say, okay, sure, but at the same time, I definitely want to make other. Or things. And have, you know, other screenplays that are written that are in different genres, but have a same through line, like my whole thing is all the scripts that I've written, including cam girl, is very based on the whole man woman thing. You know, how relationships can really be a center of conflict, and how it can be, you know, the best thing and the work, the best of times and the worst of times for, for if I could plagiarize that, but, um, so that's why, like, even if I've written this romantic comedy that I'm hoping to get produced, it has, it's still very much based on what I think I'm strong at, which is that character driven stuff that deals with relationships and and the good and the bad of it.

Dave Bullis 15:45
Yeah, you know, I found that horror is a very good way to start your career. I found me look at Sam Raimi, for instance, George Romero, who were just talking about, you know, these guys all started in horror, and then, you know, they were able to segue to other things. Romero, though, just to keep going back back to George Romero, good, he, he can't, you know, segue out of that zombie stuff, you know, a zombie, the zombie genre that he invented, it's, it's, it's become, like, you know, that's again, like, I was just saying that producer, or a producer, always comes up and says, Hey, I have a million dollars, but you have to do a zombie film. Or I have a $2 million but you have through a zombie film, Sam Raimi was able to segue out of that with Evil Dead Evil Dead two. But he's done other things, like spider man. And, you know, it's, that's, that's an interesting sort of perspectives. How do you not get pigeonholed into certain things, like, how do you not get pigeonholed? We're only doing one thing, you become typecast, almost like an actor like, you know, remember Julia White, who is Steve Urkel, and family matters. Well, every role he was, you know, he Steve Urkel. So it's kind of like when he went to go audition, they were like, Hey, man, Steve Urkel is auditioning for this movie. He's not going to get it because he Steve Urkel. But, you know, you know what? I mean, it's, it's, it's stuff like that, that I understand completely what you're saying. And that's why, when I think you're making you know you're making films. I think it's always important to remember the genre. Like I said, again, going back to horror and starting off in horror, I think it's an excellent idea. I mean, let me give you a case in point two, Kurt, because I had a friend of mine, he actually made a zombie film as his first movie, and it actually was actually pretty well received. And he followed it up with a romantic comedy. And all the distributors that he met, made friends with and everything else came back to him and said, hey, here you got another movie coming up and what it will tell us about it. And he told them the pitch. And he said, literally, you could see their faces just turn like, so you're making a sappy romantic comedy now, like, what happened to the horror stuff and and now he was like, Well, I don't want to be pigeon holed. I want to make you know more, a more professional film now. And basically it just, it tanked. It literally. He said it was like, Doa and and then that's something that, you know, it's kind of like, well, if you do get pigeon holed, and let's just play worst, worst case scenario here, if you do get pigeon holed where you can only make horror or only make zombie films, honestly, Curt, I think that's that's actually a fate. If I had that happen to me, where I could only make one genre movies, I would be like, You know what? As long as I get to make movies for a living, you know what, I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

Curt Wiser 18:27
Oh, yeah. Don't get me wrong, if any you know producers are listening, no, I'm not rejecting the genre. I just would. But writing is really it for me, and I know for certain, having written the rom com, for instance, is three night stand, and it's gotten good feedback. I've got two recognizable, named actresses attached to it, so it gives me some vote of confidence that it's the trick of it is it just needs to be really good, like in your friend scenario, that's sad, and it is an unfortunate common thing that, yeah, the industry kind of resists it. And I understand if you're gonna, you know, the fact of the matter is, film business is a business, you know, primarily it's art, and we love it for the art, and that's why you want to really make sure it's something you're passionate about when you write a script, or especially go to battle producing a feature. But you have to also realize from the beginning the onset, it's a business first. So you know, people buy a certain brand of soda, they expect a certain brand of soda when they purchase it again. And very much, you know, when you're professional actor or screenwriter, director, you know, agents and everything, publicists, they expect you to be a brand, you know, and I get that,

So it's more of a matter of doing it gracefully, or when you make that transition, it is so impressive that people go, okay, you can do that. You know, like maybe if they saw the trailer first in your friend scenario, let's say the movie was really outstanding, had a really solid hook, had, you know, great production value, like it looked better than his first feature. Just saying, if that was the case, and they just saw the trailer first, then you know what they'd be like, Okay, it looks pretty good. You know, it would be proof of concept in a way more than the concept of, oh, I'm doing something different. I can see the resistance, unfortunately, to that it is a fine line.

Dave Bullis 20:49
Yeah, it is a fine line. And, you know, we were talking about your movie, cam girl, and you know, it's even before you shot cam girl, you actually, obviously, because I took a peek at your indb. One thing I wanted to bring up, and I think this is pretty important, because it actually speaks volumes to me too. Kurt, is I noticed that you have three director credits, and there was a six year span between the one short film and cam girl. Now here's the thing I get that I honestly like whenever I see a gap in anyone's, in anyone's resume. That's what happened. That happened to me. And I, honestly, I understand, you know, things happen. You know what? I mean, it's, it's tough to get stuff going, because everything in this business is time and money. It takes a lot of money to get to, you know, even get up to bat. I always say it's like this Kurt. It's like playing, it's like playing a game of Home Run Derby. It takes so much practice and effort just to get up to the plate, and even if you're at the plate that, I mean, that's just like, you know, making a project, and you have one shot to hit this ball out of the park. And you know what I mean? And it's just, it takes so much, you know, training and stuff like that, and everything you do up until that point, till you get to that plate, it's just, it's just practice. It's just refining your skills, or finding a technique, finding your voice, you know what I mean, finding your your network. And then when you finally get to that plate, you put that all into, into into use. So, you know, before you did cam girl, you know, what was, you know, what were some of the other projects that you were working on, you know, that actually you sort of prepared you to make cam girl?

Curt Wiser 22:28
Well, that's an interesting point. I never really actually studied the Oh, it's been like, what do you say six years in between each thing? Or what? Yeah, it's like, oh my gosh. Okay, now I think about it in that depth. I mean, it's more. First of all, I highly recommend making sure it's first, because that is a Proving Grounds. You just you for one you can call yourself a director before you actually take the big leap to direct a feature. Because, let me tell you, it is different. It is unlike anything. When somebody does that for the first time, directs a feature film, like I'm not talking about, you know, doing it just on the weekends over the course of of, you know, six months or whatever, we did it, you know, I took a full month off of work. I was glad happy to do it. At the time, I had a day job I wasn't too thrilled about and, yeah, it was just five days a week, weekends off, long days, not irresponsibly long days, but no, just really, you know, non stop. You know, work and it just by the end of it, you are exhausted. I mean, it's the most fulfilling thing at the same time, it is the endurance test. So now I highly recommend doing shorts first. In fact, that first short, which was you might have seen then credited was power grab, which is actually animated short which I have a background in that I got a bachelor's from University of Central Florida in computer animation, so that I'm glad that I have that backing, because it is very much like filmmaking. What drew me to it is it's filmmaking without boundaries, like I would see how the visual effects was used in a movie like Fight Club, for instance, and how it just broke barriers. It's you can do things with a camera that a physical camera just can't do when I just really kind of embrace that it's taken by it. So the thing that's important to note about that is, okay, so power grab came first. It was just a minute short. It played a festival or two, which was an amazing, you know, EcoBoost, you know, confidence builder, and it got me an IMDB. So that's the thing. It's, it's, what is the different steps you want to be an IMDB, then you want to actually just prove more work in whatever avenue you're trying to get into, including what genre it is. The second short I did, actually, was you. Because the writer also produced it. Said, I wrote this because, honestly, he was interested, and ended up working with me on cam girl. But in the onset of that, as I was working on that, trying to get it financed, he said, Oh yeah, no, I've got this short would you like to direct it? I'll give you X amount of dollars to go ahead and produce it and direct it. It was just a one day shoot, and it was great. So it was like, in a way, my first paying job, you could say, you know, it was somebody was saying, yes, you know, I'll be your champion for this moment and give you X amount of dollars. I believe in your ability to direct this. And it was directed and, you know, so that's another step. So it's just a matter of different steps along the way. And if it takes, you know, three years or whatever in between, so be it. I certainly wouldn't, I don't regret it at all, because it took from the time I wrote the first solid draft of cam girl, that was 2009 so then it took a solid two years trying to get the financing. But the whole time it was, I was working on casting. I built the website to use that as a sales tool. I built a lookbook. I formed a company. You know, you got to have an LLC, or whatever, some business entity. You just have to do everything. You have to just do the work to to because everybody's got a script and everybody's got a first script. It's important to note that, and this is important because this explains also the time cap is camera was my third feature length screenplay, first screenplay I wrote, actually co wrote with Curtis Norton, who ended up becoming my good friend and editor of cam girl that you know, got some recognition and contests, screenplay competitions, Blue Cat the semi finalists. And blue cat was a same kind of thing, like semifinalist in the creative screenwriting magazine. That shows you how long ago it was, whatever, but

Dave Bullis 27:02
I remember, yeah, it was, it was good.

Curt Wiser 27:08
It was right up there with, like, script mag,

Dave Bullis 27:10
Yeah. And all of a sudden, I remember when it, when it just kind of faded away. And I was like, damn, because I remember that a really good I still have the the issue. It had Tarantino's Death Proof on the cover, and it was like an interview with him inside. And just really, they had a previous issue with him too. It was a really good interview about his writing process. But I'm sorry to get off topic, Kurt, but, but, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. And you know just about, you know, placing those competitions. But actually, I want to hear more about so you submitted the the script of cam girl to Blue Cat and actually placed you said,

Curt Wiser 27:44
Oh, no, that was the first No. So sorry. So that was Tragic Kingdom, first screenplay I ever wrote, which is CO wrote. I haven't really written, co written anything since that much, unless it's a writing for hire job, which happened recently. But that so that Tragic Kingdom, you know, is the one that we entered in contests and stuff, because at the beginning, that's what you need to do. You really need to, just at that time, I really had no connections at all. So I highly recommend that enter the main competitions, you know, just like a film festivals, you know, start with the main ones. You know, the the big break, you know, competition, I think, is still going on, obviously, the nickel fellowship, Sundance Labs, things like that. Go for the majors, because that's really what you want. You want something that really is a proving ground, because you're going against the best, the best, if you can get some kind of nod from those you're on to something, and if not, write the next one. I've heard Jim wools say that, no, you need to my advice to screen artists starting out is write that first script and then put it in a drawer and then write the second script, and then when you're done writing that second script, yeah, you can go back and look at the first script and rewrite it and whatever, and see if there's something there. But I'm telling you, and I I've seen it to be proof in my own work, is you get better with each time. And I think far too many people write that first script. They tell all their friends about it for about 15 years. It never gets produced. And, you know, they put all their eggs in that, that unfulfilling basket, and it's, it's sad and I but I understand why that could happen, because it is such a sense of accomplishment. It's like, oh, look what I did, and it is amazing, but you got to keep pushing forward. I think a lot of professional screenwriters, that's their first script does not get produced more often than not. And I think most of them will tell you, Oh, thank God it didn't get produced, because, you know, I wouldn't be, you know, talking with you right now, so, or whatever it is. So it's, you know, I wouldn't have a career. And you know that there's something to that. I mean, people get better with practice. And the same goes for your craft as a screenwriter, director, actor, or what have you.

Dave Bullis 30:01
Yeah, you know, and that's so true. And I wanted to actually ask, you know, we kind of touched upon this before, as you talk about writing screenplays, you know, how did you because you were working the nine to five. You mentioned when you were doing the short films, you know, what were some of the things that you did? I mean, when you when you got home from the nine to five, did you have a whole process in place, like, Hey, listen, I'm gonna get home at five, I'm gonna maybe eat some dinner, and then from seven to eight, I'm just gonna write for an hour. Did you have like, a, like a set schedule like that?

Curt Wiser 30:43
The way I I tend to work is I outline thoroughly, and that's very kind of at my own time. I do a lot of work at night. At the time when I worked the day job, I would get off work at 11pm and yeah, I'd be up to like, 5am or whatever, writing, you know, or doing other things, and then writing, and then, you know, going to sleep, waking up at noon and starting all over again with the day job. You know, I would thoroughly outline first. So in the case of cam girl, for instance, I spent about a year outlining and researching, and I did the whole Lawrence Kasdan method, you know, with the node cards and the bulletin board. And I highly recommend people at least trying that, because it's free form. It's not something you're pigeon holed to, you know, it's just putting down the thoughts you don't forget it. So you end up with a big stack of cards, and you write down anything from lines of dialog to you definitely at least need what a sentence describing what a scene is about. And then visual cues, you know, symbolism, metaphor, you know, any kind of thing that is going to be key components to any scene. And then you kind of just find a home for it on the bulletin board. So anyway, I did that. I even did things like read a great book by a memoir by Diablo Cody, famous screenwriter Diablo Cody, who wrote Juno and young adult before that, she was actually a blogger about her experiences as being a stripper, and it was called Candy Girl. This phenomenal read I recommend that you can definitely see early on that first bit of work of hers that got published this this woman has talent. So that was a great way in to that world, because I'm a guy and I don't know anything about about cam girl stuff. So in all honesty, I mean, I stumbled upon the idea and knew that's what I need to write. But okay, now I really have to do it justice and try to get in the mindset. So yeah, a year of that, a year of researching outlining and then, and I've done this with cam girl for the first time, and I've done it with many screenplays ever since is once I'm ready, I start, and then I am fully disciplined, and I try to write first draft as quick as possible. In the case of camera, I wrote it in 14 days, so 89 pages. It ended up being a little longer than that. But that first draft, 89 pages in 14 days, and it was one of the greatest experiences I've ever had. It was kind of cathartic. It just flew out of me like therapy, you know. And I highly recommend it, because for me, that just the energy and the kind of excitement that you have for it ends up on the page. It's just a matter of getting it all on the page and just rework it later. I mean, that first draft, no, is not something I ended up showing to anybody, because it had, you know, was littered with typos and and sentences and I'm like, wait a minute, what was okay, yeah, added this word that were, you know, but that's great. That's how you know, it just ends up, you know, just becoming a flourish of of this story, you know. So I've definitely been doing that ever since. So, yeah, just really doing the work beforehand. So I know, no matter what I have this story, I really have a solid beginning, middle and end. I know what it's all about. I know what the character motivations are. I know that it's has a solid through line. I know what the theme is. You know, it's something that's overt, but it's all there. And let's get started and I just get it done. And that's when I, you know, those 14 days, yeah, it was very disciplined, from this time to that time, non stop while I'm not working. In fact, in that 14 days, I ended up calling off the day job two days. So I have a long weekend, and it was like one of the most, you know, happy weekends I've had, you know. So no, it was very much disciplined from that regard.

Dave Bullis 34:55
So when you took those days off work and you were just writing, did you just turn your phone? Off too at the same time. Did you just basically say, I don't want to be bothered by anybody, and just shut yourself up in your bedroom and just, you know, notebook in hand and pen or laptop, whatever you had. So is that means that what you did just eliminate all those distractions?

Curt Wiser 35:13
Yeah, and I didn't really have a reason to go on the internet, because it was all written there. It was all there in the notes. It was all there, um, at my disposal, with the rare exception of like, oh, I want to reference this weird thing or whatever, you know, then I'd have to look up the word or something like that, and things like that, you know, if it's some kind of like reference to the world, real world. But now, other than that, no internet, no, you know, no. Phone, no. You know, other than, like, maybe I tend to like listen to music, like classical music or commentary while I'm writing, you know, something like that, just to, just to, you know, it's like one of those fidget spinners, in a way, for my head, you know, it just keeps me focused, you know. But other than that, no, there was no distractions, or what people would call distractions,

Dave Bullis 36:08
Because, you know, that's something I've noticed too, with just running screenplays, and even when you come home from a day job, and this is from from a lot of different people who've been on the podcast and my own experiences, is that some days when you come home, you're either a too tired. I had a friend of mine who was an AV guy and and he even on Facebook, he would say, My God, I don't have enough energy when I get home to even do anything. I just want to crash in front of the TV and Joe pop open a beer and just start, you know, zoning out in front of the TV or whatever. And then other friends would say they come home and it's just, you know, they have a wife, they have kids, you know, stuff like that. And it's just, you know, it was, it was always one thing after another, and then by the time they got some some alone time, it was like 1011, o'clock at night, and they have to be up at six o'clock the next morning. So there wasn't a lot of time to actually sort of write this out, just hearing little I hate to use the word hacks, but I guess I should probably use the word hacks. So to sort of hack the process, they would do stuff like writing wherever they can. On the lunch break at work, they take their phone out and start writing on that. They would try to they would take their phone and record audio as they're driving to work, you know, writing little notes in the shower using Aqua Notes, which is something I've actually picked up too, by the way, seriously, eight bucks on Amazon. You can actually write in the shower. Comes with a pencil, waterproof pad, everything. It's amazing. But stuff like that, we can that way, you can sort of at least get some writing done and you not sort of just keep putting it off, if you know what I mean,

Curt Wiser 37:39
Yeah, whatever you're going to do. That's what I mean. I've heard other people say, you know, look at it this way, if all you do is write a page a day, you know, by the end of the year, you'll have, you know, two, two screenplays done or whatever. You know, whatever it is if you devote just one hour a day, or one or three hours a week, you know, however it breaks down. I mean, you don't need to be that formulaic with it, if it helps you, then, by all means, everybody's processes their own. But no, it's a matter of just finding the time. And yeah, we have the it's the best time, in a way, to be a filmmaker or a writer, because, yeah, you do have these apps. You do have, you know, this technology that's easily affordable, so, but at the same time, it's just the most crowded time to ever try to break in. So you really have to have that hook. You have to have that high concept that's going to get out there. And you got to just do put in the time, you know.

Dave Bullis 38:39
So, yeah, and that's so true. We have to, you know, you know, you have to do point in the time and, and actually, you know, getting, actually, the hardest part of the process, somebody once told me, Kurt, is actually getting started. And once you can get that, that that sort of pushing that stone up the hill like Sisyphus, you can, you know, keep, keep pushing it up there. But the hardest part is actually starting. So, you know, let's talk about starting cam girl. So you have the script written, where does it finally come together? Where you have the script and you say to yourself, you know what this is the time I you know, you know, everything sort of came together. So how did you go about, you know, you know, finding that. You know, finding the right time to do this and starting to cast this, this, this project. So was it? Was it finally? Did you finally, you know, maybe get the right amount of money? Did you finally maybe find the right actress? Did you finally maybe find the right location? So what sort of came together for you at the right time for you to make Cam girl last year?

Curt Wiser 39:35
Well, that's an interesting way to okay, this is a very good question. Basically, what happened was I just what I was alluding to earlier, is I did all I could, pre production. First I'd be casting. I'd be doing all I can, hoping that the financing will eventually come. And I just knew in the back of my head, if it didn't, if I didn't get the money by now, I would have found a way to, you know, clerk style, El Mariachi style, following by Christopher Nolan style, you know, get it made on my own resources, my own, you know, by any way I could. Thankfully it didn't have to do that, because after several years of doing all that, I would in the process of casting everywhere, online, on those, you know, usual listing boards, you know, the the Craigslist, the Mandy's, all that stuff. I would put the casting notices, you know, with the webs link to the website. Like I said, you know, it was kind of like a sales tool. I'd kind of list what the casting was for at the very head of it all. It had the log line. It was very much an intentional way to pitch what the script was, and in doing so, I actually had a producer contact me, email me, out of the blue, and said they'd like to read the script. And that was Jay Aubrey. He ended up becoming one of the two executive producers of cam girl. Within two weeks, he said he loved the script, wanted to send it to another friend of his, and it was a business partner. He's worked with odorico Mendez, and he was the other executive producer. And between the two of them, they got it financed. And it all quickly happened after that. Immediately after that, money was, you know, sent, and we just looked forward to have a production date. And everything was by that time, the ship was pretty well steered in the right direction. So because I used all that time, because I used that time to be prepared, I had storyboards, I had shot lists, I had promotional stills. You know, they didn't end up becoming promotional stills we use for the final feature, but it was a sales tool. You need that kind of stuff for your look book and pitch documents, and that just helps you understand the world and the look you know what you're going for. So no use that time to your advantage. I wouldn't if you know this is your first shot, if this is really going to be your resume film, don't rush into it, is what I'd suggest, because that's you only got the one, in a way. I mean, if it's really so bad that it just kind of dies at the vine, you can take it off IMDb or something, or try to, but for the most part. No, you really want to, don't want to rush into that first, first break you get treat it like your resume, because that's usually what happens with these things.

Dave Bullis 42:49
Yeah, you mentioned dying on the vine that that's, you know, I've heard that so many times, you know, projects, the money's there, they're about to shoot, and then everything just falls apart. And it's like, Well, we did everything right, and it still fell apart. And, I mean, you know, and I want to get back to talking about camera girl, by the way, one second, I just want to tell you a little anecdote. Kurt, I once had a friend of mine, and he wrote a script that he was hoping to pitch to people, and he wrote it, and I, you know, I read it, and it wasn't anything crazy, meaning there was no real set pieces that were gonna be expensive, nothing that I could think of that was gonna be outrageous. And he said, Well, if you know, if I can't get it, you know, produced by somebody, I'm gonna produce it myself, even if I have to shoot it my backyard. And I said, See, that's the spirit. I said, that's what you got to have. And he said, you know, thank you, Dave. And and, well, he went off. Nobody wanted to produce it, so he said he was gonna shoot his own backyard. And I said, I'm always for it. I said, you know, you should always so, you know, follow your dream. And if the project you want to make, you know, don't let anybody tell you, No, make, make your project. Well, he came back to me and Kurt, he told me, all right, I'm gonna need half a million dollars to shoot this thing. And I said, it's four guys in a freaking living room in a house. I said, Why the hell did you need half a million dollars? I said, and I said, there was no explosions, there's no there's no crate blood, there's no gunshots, there's no special effects. I said, What the hell are we are you using 400 or $500,000

Curt Wiser 44:20
It to be shot on IMAX Dave, I mean,

Dave Bullis 44:25
Well, it's funny, because he actually got a director of cinematography that came with a package. It was, like, a red X at the time, I think, or, or whatever it was at the time, or red dragon and, and he was like, he was like, Okay, we'll shoot it on that. But I was like, how much money is this guy charging you? Like, where the hell is this $500,000 and then he was, you know, like, Well, maybe if I could get this actor. And I said, dude. I said, it's four guys in a living room, unless you know your best friends with, I don't know, I don't know shy love for something. I said, it's not, you know, they're not gonna be with all these guys together. I said, you know, he wanted to have this but So finally, I said, Dude, you. You could shoot this over the weekend, bit by bit, and then I said, for, literally, probably two, 300 bucks a day, a little more if you get a professional direct cinematography like the one he had selected with the red kit. And I said it wouldn't cost you anywhere near this. And then you could just put it online for free and have people just, you know, check it out. Because after all this, this isn't really, you know, you're, this is more like, a passion project and not, and like, not a commercially viable product, it, you know. And honestly, if I like, like, if you're gonna, like, we were talking about before, if you know the difference between the two, and I think that's a you have to have a difference between the two. If one's a commercially viable product, and you know, something like, you know, something like, no living dead, something like camera that's going to have an audience is going to have a niche that's going to have a selling point. It's going to have, you know, a unique selling position, aka unfair advantage, versus something that, hey, look, I just want to get my I just want to shoot a film. Because if I don't shoot it now, or if I don't shoot in a couple months or a year whatever, I'm probably never going to shoot one. Because I'm not, I'm going to always be spinning my wheels and talking about shooting a film, you know what I mean?

Curt Wiser 46:04
Absolutely. And I think there's two different elements to that. One is casting. And as far as pre production is concerned, casting is probably 90% of the game. I've heard the expression go, you know, like the director's job or, you know, as far as shepherding a production is casting is 90% of it, because if you're not with the actors, if you don't believe the acting, you're not going to believe anything, no matter how good the composer is, no matter how good your DP is, no matter how good the writing is. And we felt very fortunate, and I'm glad that we took our time, especially in finding all of our cast, but especially the two leads, Aaron Nicole Klein as Jessica the lead, was just outstanding. She was local talent. Everybody on on cam girl was local cast and crew at the time, half of them since moved to either California or Georgia. But anyway, Joe Coffey, the other the male lead, I think, was phenomenal, and he's gone on to both of them have gone on to great things. So no, we felt I couldn't have done it without those people. And I'm glad I took the time in casting to get people I knew that could really just knock it out of the park. They're not names, as far as Hollywood's concerned, but it's a it has to just stand out as good acting. As long as it stands out as good acting, yeah, it's going to be really hard to get Sandra Bullock or Steve Bucha me in your four four people in a room movie. I mean, if you have no experience or connections. I mean, you have to be realistic at the same time. You really need to realize that, okay, how can I get the best talent I can find for this? Because that is really crucial. I've seen far too many movies, low budget movies that it's just like, even if it's just one of the lead actors or actresses that just fall short. It just really kind of takes the air out of the tires of the whole project.

Dave Bullis 48:06
Yeah, it's so true. And, you know, one of the other things, and that's the thing we're talking about with all the actors once, you know, actors keep going on and during people in the project move on. You know, things that I've worked on, I, you know, I hear about them moving out to LA I met these two girls on a film set. They were like, oh, maybe we're gonna get into film. We don't know. And I said, I, you know, some people have this romantic idea of filmmaking, and they get in there for a day Kurt, and they go running away screaming, like they think it's gonna be a fairy tale, like, Oh, my God, you know, holy shit. Yo so, so they but, but they ended up, both of them, moving to LA. And I was like, Hey, listen, you know, more power to you, if you can do that, more power to you. And I don't, I haven't heard from since, but much, you know, but you know, I have so many friends who have moved out to LA, and honestly, let's be honest here Kurt, I'm probably gonna move out there at some point, I don't know when, probably when I get, you know, a little more things under my belt, because I know if I go out there, I will probably end up, you know, living in the gutter, but, but I want to make sure, you know, I have something to show for for all this years I'm putting into it and but, but, you know, it is just, you know, that's why I always say your network is your net worth. And honestly, when you're when all these people go to these networking parties and everything else, you know, you never know who you're gonna bump into, that's why you should really, you should only burn a bridge if you're absolutely certain you don't need to cross that again. Something like that old saying goes, it's something like, you can burn a bridge if you never have to cross it twice, and, but, but, but, you know, and that's the thing you know, in they go into the projects, and it kind of ties in with what I'm trying to get out here. It's, I know there are screenwriters and producers, and actually more and more screenwriters who heard you say that about the two producers who found your script, and they're probably like, I can't believe Dave didn't talk about that more damn it. So I so I want to just tie in. We're talking about networking and and all the the actors from cam girlgoing in in different directions and in commercials. So and tying with your network is your net worth. So tying back, then, tying into that, when those two producers found you, that one producer found you just randomly, did he just really? Was he just looking for on those boards, just for, like a budding filmmaker or a budding screen or screenwriter, or something like that, just to sort of see what's out there.

Curt Wiser 50:43
Yeah, he was, we're talking about Jay Aubrey here. Yeah, he actually has a long history decades of working. He actually worked with Roger Corman. His father was very prominent filmmaker, you know, in the film industry. So no, he was looking for somebody to to be the next champion for you know, and he just kind of saw my post and sent the email, and the rest was kind of a good history for me so, but yeah, it was a very interesting story. It would that happen if I tried to do it all over again today? Who knows? I'm sure that stuff is a little different. But no, it's free advertising. It's just good to show you any way you can get your concept out there once it's copy written and ready to go, wait for that at least. But yeah, once it's done, do everything you can to get it out there using these resources you have. Because I know we've always, always heard the common saying, as far as production goes, you know, you can make it good, fast, cheap, you know, two out of the three, I'd like to introduce one that I live by, a totally different trifecta for more for low budget film makers to consider is you have time, money and resources. So you can have two of those three things are, you know, what you have to really kind of latch on to. In the case of cam girl, we had the resources and we had time to be honest. I mean, I'm glad that we had enough money to get it done, and we paid people, you know. But it was really more a matter of taking all that time that I had the years and years to really maximize the resources. And you'd look at movies like clerks and following, etc, where they wrote the script based on what they even had available, as far as locations and and everything. So to some degree, I definitely did that. I mean, it's easy to find a house or condo, so people in your cast and crew, especially when they're paid, they're willing to, you know, maybe work with you on something like that. You know, I've got this place, or my friend's place, or whatever. So now it's a matter of that. I definitely look at it, especially if it's a low budget film. You got your time, money and resources, how are you going to utilize two of those three?

Dave Bullis 52:58
Yeah, and I like that perception, by the way, that sort of time, money, and, you know, the quality, the speed and the cost, and sort of changing that to fit with indie film standards. Because, you know, we've both seen this Curt. You meet somebody who wants to make an indie film for like, five grand, 10 grand, whatever, and they're talking about, like, all right, I'm gonna have this period piece, and I'm gonna, you know, we're gonna be back in the 1600s what a feature length fill with what I mean. And you saw that thing I posted on Instagram recently that I took from gorilla producer, aka Calvin. You know where it's like, you're trying to explain to people how your your music video is not gonna cost 500 bucks. You know what I mean? It's just like, it's just too much is involved with this to sort of, you know, just say, Oh yeah, we can get by with, you know, 100 bucks or whatever. And I don't know why I even just thought of this, but I want to bring this up to I actually had a friend of mine who did, who did our online radio show before that was even a thing. And I haven't talked to this guy in years, but he had it as it was, like a and then what happened was he would record it. It was an online radio show. You could listen to it and you could also watch it. They had cameras in the room, kind of like, kind of like cam girl, by the way, and you know. And what happens is, you could also listen to it later on as a podcast. And I mean, this is before any everyone was doing it, you know. And he would try to act like he could charge his exorbitant rates when, like, nobody was watching, you know, like he had like, two viewers one night, one of which was me, and he was, like, talking about, like, Hey, I could, I should charge like, $1,000 for an ad space. Here. It's like, what the hell you talking about? Like, where do you get this stuff from? But again, it's sort of like, you know, I think some people have expectations, and then when their expectations doesn't meet reality, you know, you they have to st change their perception, because otherwise they're just gonna just be miserable about everything. There's, you know what I mean, they're always gonna be those people who are just saying, like, oh my god, if only I could find your $10,000 or $20,000 I don't know. Maybe if you. Maybe they could change the movie and shoot it a little differently, you know. And you know, one of the things that you mentioned, too, is when the crew and the cast see you, meaning like you as the director and writer and producer have this, you're you have a great attitude, you're willing to hurt work hard. And the thing is, and this is, this is true with pretty much any project I've ever been on, the if, the if, the producer, director, writer, whoever is leading the ship. Sometimes, you know, like you and me, Kurt, we're, we wear all three hats. If you don't care about the project more than everybody else, people can sense that, and if they sense that, their, their their willingness, and their, their willingness to sort of, you know, go that extra mile diminishes by, like, rapidly by by the day. You know what I mean?

Curt Wiser 55:47
Absolutely. And not only that, to kind of expand on what you were talking about earlier, about, you know, people, where are you getting these numbers from? You know, you should charge this. And I think it's this crowdfunding mentality where it just is. It's like a plague. People think, Oh, just because, you know, Spike Lee could do it. Yeah, it's Spike Lee. It's like he got over a million dollars, because it's, you know, but it's a matter of, with crowdfunding, it's about the rewards. It's not a matter of what you're taking. But, you know, there's this kind of me first mentality that filmmakers need to kind of get away from if they really want to get a start. I have the opposite philosophy. It's about, you know, giving first. I mean, obviously within reason, if it's, you know, one sided with a certain, you know, then you can stop, you know, on that avenue, but it's giving first. And you'd be amazed how many other people eventually down the road. Oh, you know, I do have this concept. How about you write the screenplay? I'll pay you, or whatever, or I've got this one producer, he'd be really interested in this script that you told me about a year ago. Like you'd be amazed how often that is how it works. And that is a great way of networking. Is, what are you doing for this person first, that's just like the agents client relationship. It's it's your it's a symbiotic thing. It's like, what are you doing for the agent? That's why they want to know what your brand is. They already want you to have some kind of reputation, like you have a reason for them to want you like you've already put in the time. You've got studios interested in whatever script or project it is, or YouTube video you made, etc. So, no, it's very much. I look at networking that way. It's like it's a giving first thing, and seeing what comes in, what goes around, comes around, to some degree.

Dave Bullis 57:36
Yes, I that is my philosophy of networking as well. You know, I always, you know, always extend out, you know, hey, this is why I think we should talk, or with this, we should meet and, and this podcast has been an extension of that, you know, I've always been one of my strongest skills. Curt, you know, some people just have these, you know, skills that they've accumulated and sort of ends up becoming a strength. And one of them has been networking, and for me, and one of the things that I've learned is that, you know, you have to sort of offer up some value, and if it's not reciprocated, because, which, you know, let's just be honest, sometimes in the film industry it's not reciprocated, so you just have to, you just have to sort of let it go and just be like, All right, that's their karma. If they don't want to reciprocate that that's fine. But you know next time I'm not gonna, you know, it's you know, you next time, I don't know if I'm gonna actually be so willing to help them out. And that's why I always tell people in this industry, you have to have a good attitude. The honestly. Kurt, I've worked on some of these film sets, man, and it has just been ego maniacs out of the gate. And I'm like, You guys haven't done anything how you know you were making a small indie film here that you know is literally all free. Like, everything's free. Like, we have the location for free. Everyone's working for free. The cast is working for free. And I'm like, you know, we're shooting this with, like a potato. And I'm like, and you know, everyone's like, Oh, this is going to be a YouTube hit. We're gonna have a million hits. You know, in retrospect, I've looked at that, I've looked at that, and I realize you do have to have that attitude that it is going to lead to something. But I think it was, as we go back to expect, expectations, hey, it's going to be a million hits on YouTube. The reality of it is, if it doesn't hit that, hey, you know what? You know, at least we tried. You know, it shouldn't be this, like blinded Ferber, if you know what I mean, that sort of, like, leads a lot of people astray. Because, I mean, you've been on those movies Kurt where you know people, you work on a project, and some people don't have that attitude where, like, Hey, this is the big thing that's gonna win Sundance. We're all gonna be multi millionaires living in mansions in Bel Air, and it's all gonna be gonna because of this film, and I honestly, I think that's a it's a double edged sword type of attitude, because you want people to be positive, but you also don't want people to sort of lose grasp of reality. If you know what I mean,

Curt Wiser 1:00:02
It's like that movie. This is a very obscure reference, mind you so pardon but it's like that movie, The Great White hype, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's all this, you build this, expectations, expectations, and it kind of builds upon itself, and then you better deliver. And then it's like the biggest let down in the world when it doesn't, although that's the movie was that did the opposite. But anyway, that was kind of the joke of it. It turned its on its on its head, but it's just about that. You don't really what I was saying earlier, especially if it's a smaller project, and really, especially if it's people volunteering their time. One You better be to the nicest to them, that you know, nice, super nice to them, and thank them for their work and and let them know it's appreciated. Because, no, I mean, if you're able to get people to work for you for free, and it comes out watchable, that's amazing. That's a miracle in itself. It's already a miracle producing a feature, or whatever it is, a short so, no, it's really hard to get quality work and people with experience to do quality work for free. I mean, I have different philosophies about people that do that, and I've still done work for free, but I'm eventually going to really just stop doing that, unless it's a very close friend or something. Anyway, very much. You gotta just it's about demeanor. You want to be respectful to people, because again, that it goes maybe a year later when they remember working with you, if you were act like that, they probably don't want to work with you again. Or especially, you know, when you don't live up to the hype, which is very possible when it's this crowded of an industry, it's just kind of, it really kind of looks bad. It should be about this is a great story to tell. I'm glad you're all here to help tell it with me. Let's go to work action. So it starts with that, because, like I said, camera took well over from start to finish, from the first screenplay to actual. Now in distribution, it's taken four years, well over four years we consider, you know, the development process, you know the year, you know, five years. So it's you have to really want to tell a story, and really have you know, your your heart behind it, because you got to really get through all that time. I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to take that long, but it could, at very least, it should take, you know, post production, everything, if you don't have a lot of money at your disposal, yeah, it'll take years before you get from A to B on that.

Dave Bullis 1:02:39
Yeah, and that's sort of that perseverance. You got to keep sort of punching it through. And, you know, that's sort of goes back to what I was talking about my friend of mine, where it's like, you know, if you want to make it in your own backyard, hey, more power to you. It's kind of like that film buried, you know, the they were gonna actually shoot that in somebody's backyard, because, hey, you know what? They could do it. And this is before, you know, you had a whole, like, they had a film crew, obviously, and everything. But they were saying, like, Hey, I wrote this movie about a guy in a coffin. I could shoot this in my backyard. It doesn't have to be any you know what I mean. So if you haven't seen Barry, by the way, everyone listening, fantastic movie, one location, you know. And it's really, really interesting how they shot that. But you know, Kurt, just to get back to cam girl, I wanted to actually mention, you know, what was some of the, you know, what was some of the, maybe the toughest obstacle you had to overcome. And actually, though, in the actual shooting of cam girl, is there anything unexpected that may have happened on set, that that should have, like, threw everything into a into a like, disarray, or anything that sort of happened that just sort of, like, put a wrench in the works?

Curt Wiser 1:03:42
Well, no matter how prepared you get, you'll still have things that just really are like, what the bleep? You know, a few examples of that I had. We that that main location that we had where all the action happens. Well, first, very quickly, the log line camera is a Spence film. It's available everywhere, you know, Amazon, DVD. It's about Jessica, a single mother who works as a webcam stripper, was pushed to her limit when held hostage by an unknown gunman, basically. So it's mostly in this one location where the house where that, you know, conflict takes place, where that hostage situation takes place, and it's very much over the phone, kind of in the vein of it was a combination of phone booth and film I really love, called Hard Candy, anyway, so that main location, we actually leased it out for that month. And when we leased it, it was completely empty. So we dressed that place, you know, from top to bottom, it was all just carpets and walls. So when we moved in, we only had about a two days to prep everything, get it going. You know, had to have the power. Uh, set up. Have, you know, the the water set up, because we needed all that stuff, the working shower, etc, you know, sinks, everything. So once we finally got it all up and running the first day of production, we needed the wardrobe clean. So I wanted to, you know, wash the main wardrobe that we see the kind of, the pajamas that the iconic, you know, stuff for the character. So I quickly, you know, wash it, just so it's not, you know, wrinkled and everything. And come to find out, the washer that was left in there and had other tenants and everything used, or whatever, prior to that, it would just filled up and would, that's all it would do. Just filled up with water and just was like a moat. So I found out hours later, what the heck? And now the actresses showed up, ready to go. You know, everything's set up, and this clothes, you know, I realized, you know, we're about to start a little bit, and now we've got this soaking wet clothes. And what am I going to do now the water doesn't work, so basically, I quickly threw it out on basically on the inside the car. Outside. It was a hot summer day in Florida, so I put it out in the back seat of my car, so the sun was beaming in there, and I took one of our reflectors and reflected sun going into the back of this car. The DP shows up at that time from three just parks and passes my car. He's like, What is all this stuff? I had to explain. Yeah, I had to dry this stuff somehow. And because the dryer is not working, this washer, it doesn't work. So it just left the soapy water collecting on our wardrobe that we're going to need in an hour. So, like, that's one thing, another thing, we had a location fall out at the last minute, and ended up having to talk them into reminding them, okay, fine, I'm giving you how much money I'll give you a little more. Can we film tomorrow? Okay, fine, so we had a cover set at main location for that day. I had to immediately call everybody and reschedule actors that were needed that day for a different day, and bring in the core actors to the main location. And we okay, we'll film this scene in that scene. So that became a short day, but we still kept the momentum. We got something done so that, in a way, was our cover set. That kind of thing is more often, like, if you're doing exteriors, you definitely want to have that early in the schedule so you're able to utilize cover sets if it's really bad weather, what have you. But in that case, it was because a location fell out. So you just don't know. You need to be prepared for anything. And that's also I need to be fully prepared as much as possible before you start, because you're going to still have fires to put out.

Dave Bullis 1:07:40
Yeah, you're always gonna have fires to put out. That's something I I found, and it's a lot of it has been, in my experience, been like people dropping out, like key crew members, and I have to kind of fill those roles myself. That's been a big fire that I've noticed a lot. And, you know, it's sort of like, Hey, your location manager dropped out. Okay? Now you're, you know, now the the your your associate producer dropped out, okay, and now, who? Now, this guy dropped out. Okay. Now, I'm, you know, the caterer, I'm the this and the that, and I'm also, you know, the director, and I wrote the freaking thing. And it's just, you know, it's just one thing after another, and you're just trying to juggle what you are at that point in time. So, and it's just, you know, just trying to sort of get through it, so to speak. But, but, you know, it's so good, you know, I actually was gonna ask you to you just answered that question was about, how did you actually film this movie? And, you know, if you actually just rented out one location, which is, you know, you just answered that, because I've actually seen other people do that too, where they've actually just, you know, rented a house for, you know, maybe a month or so. I know, as odd as this is gonna sound, the movie that I just recently watched that made me think of that was DB Cooper versus Bigfoot, and basically they rented a house for like, a month and shot the whole film in there, by the way, do not watch DB Cooper versus big fun. It was terrible, if you further So Kurt, do not, do not actually try to find that movie. It was, I was god awful, but, but it just made me think of of, you know, hey, they rented a house for a month, but, you know, but no, I actually liked cam girl, you know. I thought was a really cool idea. Reminded me of phone booth. You mentioned you said hard candy. It reminded me of phone booth more than or even devil more so than hard candy.

Curt Wiser 1:09:29
Yeah, it was a combination of both. I thought I said both phone booth and hard candy. Oh, I'm sorry I missed or sorry about that. Sorry I missed that, sir. I don't know. I'm thinking I said, but I don't have to go back. Let's go to the video tape,

Dave Bullis 1:09:41
Instant replay.

Curt Wiser 1:09:45
But I'm pretty sure, I mean, you're absolutely right, and that definitely was both were, you know, I mean to why I said hard candy is the whole dynamic between the male and female character. You know, that's kind of where I was going, I guess, with that one now, it's very contained and very adversarial that way, and kind of breaks down the cliches that you might have about the genders there. So that's kind of where I was, but definitely I can see phone booth. Absolutely. That was a definite inspiration, really, all these, I mean, you mentioned I was so wanting to mention, when you brought it up with Chris barlings buried, I thought that was very tactful, very good. People should look at that. They should look at his other work. ATM, so they're very contained film. And I thought that was great. In fact, I think that was better than buried. It was definitely because it had, it had bigger scope, because it was three people in a small container space. But it just goes to show you that he became the contained thriller guy, you know, and he embraced it. He I think it is really interesting to know that, yes, he wrote that script intending to, no matter what, if he had to make it himself. And there was this other movie called coffin, which is a lesser scene, and it's a, you know, it's okay, but it's just very low budget, and just isn't quite what buried is. Then again, it doesn't have riot Ryan Reynolds inside the coffin. Also, what's really fascinating is, I was amazed to find out that buried was shot in 21 days. It's like, it's a one guy in a coffin the whole time, and it was shot in 21 days. Wow, they really, you know, it goes to show you, they took their time. They could have probably done that in less there's another movie called break, which is one actor, Stephen Dorff, I believe, he's inside the trunk of a car. He's kind of held hostage. There's this terrorism type plot, and he's, you know, held hostage inside of a trunk. And it's just like there's this ticking clock, and each time it triggers something else, you know, it ratchets up the suspense. What's going to happen to them. Because they're they're wanting him to do something, the people that are driving are holding him hostage. I mean, just look at these kind of movies, realize, okay, how can I make a story like this that I really feel passionate about, that is unique, that takes advantage of the same kind of things that these movies do, is what I'd suggest if you're trying to break in, because it's, it's, it's about budget, you know, you need to get that first credit. That's the thing. I'm very appreciative that I have, you know, my first credit as a writer director. I've got, you know, first credit for features now on visual effects and things like that. So I can really until it's like a plumber, if you're gonna need some plumbing work done, are you gonna just have your buddy say, Oh yeah, I know somebody down the street. Has he done anything before? No, he works as a, you know, an accountant, but you know he likes to do plumbing on the side. Are you gonna bring that person in to work on the pipes? Are you gonna call somebody, and that your friend said, Oh, no, I did an amazing job. You know, he's been doing it for years. You know, if you don't trust somebody with your pipe, you don't trust somebody, you know, with your screenplay, you know, who's gonna give you your, you know, $800,000 right off the bat. You know, why would they decide to do that? Why would they take that risk? So you got to look at it from that way, it's very much starting realizing you have to start somewhere, and writing something that's very marketable, that you still feel great about telling that's within a budget, is a great avenue.

Dave Bullis 1:13:36
Yeah, it sort of goes back to what we're talking about too, with the whole, you know, trying to make a time travel movie for like, you know, 50 bucks, or whatever the hell was, or, you know, let's make a period piece movie for 5000

Curt Wiser 1:13:48
A sci fi. But, I mean, you look at it would be like primer. That's the thing, a brilliant movie like primer, for instance, a super low budget at sci fi like that is, it was so unique and high concept, and it was started from the ground up in a way that would work, you know, for a budget, you know. And that's why it got the attention. That's why it was a hit at Sundance, you know,

Dave Bullis 1:14:10
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it was, it was very internal, very psychological. And it was, you know, for those of you who haven't seen primer, it was a time travel movie that was made for like, 7000 bucks. And basically it's about a guy who, in his garage makes a time machine, and he keeps going, like, back and forth. And the movie too, where it's like, you know, you really have to pay attention. And I hate using that phrase, you really have to pay attention to this movie, Kurt like, you know, like you should be on your phone or, you know what I mean, but, but the fact is, you know, it goes it jumps back and forth, a lot back, jumps forward, jumps backwards. And you kind of have to sort of piece this together. It's really, really cool. And yeah, exactly, you know, it depends upon what you do with it. It's kind of, there's an article I actually just tweeted out not to about, maybe yesterday, where I it was the difference between an amateur using pro gear and a pro. Role using amateur gear. And, you know, they these, the sort of concise is the camera doesn't make the photographer, the photographer makes the camera. The camera just helps you get that vision.

Curt Wiser 1:15:15
Yes,

Dave Bullis 1:15:17
So, you know, and that's sort of what we're sort of, you know, going with, you know, don't really focus on gear a lot. Yeah, honestly and because honestly Kurt, I mean, I'm sure when you were filming cam girl, you know, you probably you could have just simply went into a computer, typed in gear for rent, and you would have had probably 10 million hits, because there's everybody you know has these camera packages, you know, don't use a DSLR. Use a red, no, don't use a red. Use an area of flight, you know. I mean, it just, you know, you can just keep going down this wormhole of gear and stuff like that, but you really have to, you know, I say, you know, find out what your project is and really play to that, and which is what primer did, and, you know, and really just sort of go from there. And I think, you know, you don't have to worry about finding the latest gear and shooting in 4k or I max or whatever, because, you know, most people are never going to see your movie in 4k or I max. Because, you know, most of the monitors that we have nowadays, you know, like 99% of them on the planet aren't, aren't 4k you know what I mean. So this obsession with just this high res and everything else. It's just sort of detracting from actually making the movie. You know what? I mean, they're always chasing the next big thing in the in the in the gear market. But, but, you know, I want, and then, you know, I actually want to ask you to Curt, you know, you have a few projects, you know, again, I was looking at your indub Things that are announced. So, you know, I wanted to ask her, you know, with came girl out now, it's on Amazon Prime, and I wanted to ask you, what are some of the your other projects that you have out there that you're working on right now?

Curt Wiser 1:16:50
Well, yeah, it's very much. What is the next thing? Like I was saying, just from the writing standpoint, it's keep moving on. And the same thing with things you're trying to get in production. So I've got a 30 night stand, which is a rom com, and that, that was what I wrote, kind of after camera was kind of my answer to that, and I kind of wanted to do something different with that. I've heard it called, you know, it's like a rom com with an edge, basically, log on is tensions rise and sparks fly when a woman is cutting enough to turn a one night stand into an opportunity to live with a man rent free. So it kind of like it's very much deals with the kind of generation I'm in now, you know, people in their 30s and everything. It's, there's this big thing about, you know, you need to have a house, you know. And you know, what kind of house do you have and, oh, you're renting, okay, you know, or who's living with you? Oh, you've got roommates, and you're 35 whatever, you know. It's like, some people might have a problem with that. It's other people, like, No, I think it's the best thing you know going for me right now. It's like, you don't understand, you know. So, I mean, it's very much. And there's all this kind of, what really kind of triggered the idea was this talk about, what's it the term, I guess, is like, kind of like forced ownership, in a way, where that there's kind of like this strange stuff where people can kind of claim owner ownership, if they've been there for seven years or whatever, and it's been dormant, there's Kind of weird legal stuff. And it's also like a bit, it takes a different direction that would 30 night stand. It's not that. But, I mean, there's all this kind of weird stuff as far as as vacancies and squatters and, you know, living arrangements. And I kind of just tried to make a funny situational rom com out of that. You know, of course, it's the conflict ensues because they're stuck there for 30 days. You know, he gives her a notice to vacate, and now they hate each other. You know, it starts off as this great, you know, love affair for one night, but they woke up, so then it's like, what happens after that? And, you know, it kind of ebbs and flows and goes from there. So that's that, and I'm very happy I've got Annika marks attached to that so far. And she was in the sessions with Helen Hunt. Also have Serena Vincent to play alongside her, and she's known from like a cab Cabin Fever, of course, the original and other genre movies like tales from Halloween and stuff like that. So that's that one. And then another one I'd like to talk about is anxiety. And that was actually originally I wrote as a play script. So now I have a two act play scripts, you know, trying to try my hand at that, because I am, like I said, My strength is kind of character driven stuff, you know, dialog centric, and anxiety is a based, loosely based on a true event that happened, basically a manic cluster claustrophobic woman gets locked inside an office building bathroom after hours, along with a male janitor.

So it's just based on this true events, not the story itself. It's it departs from it very much, where this woman was trapped in this this office building on a Friday night in Washington, and she is so claustrophobic that when it's kind of it did, the news articles didn't explain why she got locked in there, but she got locked in this bathroom, and it took her eight hours. She eventually pried. She broke the wooden chair inside there, pried at the used the wooden chair to pry at the metal handle on the inside of the front door the bathroom, the thing snapped off. So now she doesn't have, you know, even a handle so, but she takes that handle that snapped off from the inside and use it as a chisel. And she first tried to chisel through the side wall. Why, I don't know, but she tried to do that, and she couldn't, because it became solid after she got through the drywall and all. So then she tried, eventually she burrowed the same kind of hole, but right beside the door, reached on the other side, stuck her arm through the wall and unlocked it from the other side, and eventually escaped that way. So it just, it took that concept and really kind of went a different direction with it, because there's somebody else stuck in there with her, and of course, they start blaming each other, and, you know, after are forced to deal with each other, and how are we going to get out of this mess? And it's, it's just, again, deals very much with gender and and even a possible, you know, love interest, you know, going on. It's just a very fun so that was actually adapted to a screenplay as well. So, you know, I have that as a two act play script and a feature that I hope to get going, and that's very much contained. And I think it also helps that it's, it's inspired by true events, because they like having that, you know, distributors like being able to put that on a poster DVD box, which I get,

Dave Bullis 1:22:00
Yeah, you know, I remember talking to friends about stuff like that, like, when you ever, whenever you're at, you know, remember video stores, but, but when you ever go to a video store and you would see that stuff, and by the way, yes, everyone I know, video stories still exist. I'm just making a joke. I actually, that actually came up, by the way, Kurt, I had a guest on, and I also had people email me, like, Dave, you know, video stories still exist, right? I'm like, Yes, I just, I was making a little levity guys, you know, come on,

Curt Wiser 1:22:23
Yeah, there's, like, what, 102 blockbusters left. But yeah, they exist. Yeah, they're actually worked at one. I worked at a Hollywood video so I could try to claim, oh, I me and Tarantino, yeah, we have the same, not so much. But yes, I did a stint at a video store, and it was awesome. It's about the perk of having movies. You know, I was able to check out movies before they were on the shelves. That was like, the coolest executive privilege in the world, like, I was able to take home a movie, like, a week before it's available to the public. It was like,

Dave Bullis 1:22:53
Yes, that is, that is so cool. You know, it's funny. I actually had a friend of mine who worked at a Hollywood Video and we got to go in there and rent some movies. And we actually rented a movie called bloody murder, which is produced by, it was like the first movie produced by Mark bien stock, who ended up, I ended up being his ta when he taught here at Drexel, here in Philly, when he was shooting, when he was producing M Night, Shyamalan split, and he and I, he ended up, he ended up coming on the podcast too, and Mark and I were talking about it, and I was like, imagine how small the world that is that that was the movie we grabbed. And then, yeah, end up, you know what, 15 years, 20 years later, we end up, you know, working together. I mean, my God, but, but, yeah, you know, I'm sorry not to, not to get too off track. Sorry, but, but, yeah, no, it's just, it's just, it's just, you know, cool that you got to work at that Hollywood Video and, and, yeah, you know, some, there are some blockbusters around, but, but, you know, just to go back with, though you're talking about, you know, yeah, I know exactly what you mean, where they can put on that inspired by two events, you know, right on the poster. And, you know, they, that sort of goes back to the unique selling position, right? You always have to have, you always have to find a way to stand out

Curt Wiser 1:24:03
Absolutely. I mean, that's what they did for Fargo, and it wasn't even true. I believe, exactly like some people, like, I heard some tragic story, like somebody actually, you know, I think, you know, passed away because they were searching for this money out in the middle of nowhere or something like that. I mean, it's just like, oh geez. Oh yeah, by the way, it was not true. Sorry,

Dave Bullis 1:24:22
That was actually, that's actually a true story that somebody there was actually made a movie about it. It's called Rico, the treasure hunter, or her Rico. It's a Japanese woman legitimately came to America looking for that, that money, that that Steve buscemis character, actually buried in Fargo, buried in that long wooden fence in the middle of nowhere with no markers whatsoever, which is kind of funny that he takes the ice scraper and puts it on there, except that was the only marker he could get, you know, because it's just it's a vast wasteland. And she actually legitimately came to this country looking for that, and ended up dying looking for it. So just.

Curt Wiser 1:25:00
I just need to find this, this isolated house with this wood chipper in the back, and then I've got a frame of reference. That's all I need.

Dave Bullis 1:25:08
Yeah, and honestly, the movie was actually pretty good. But, I mean, obviously, far goes, a masterpiece, but, but also the the other movie, I forget the actual name, but it's called the something, the treasure hunter, and it was actually pretty good, because it was about, you know, this isolated woman living this terrible life, and she figures, you know what, why not just go to America and look for this treasure? And I don't know if her life, in real life, was that bad, but I do know that she did go to this country looking for treasure and didn't find it, obviously, because it doesn't exist. But, but you know what Kurt, you know? I honestly think you know this is, you know, this has been such a great chance to speak with you. I know we met online, and it's so great being able to, you know, to meet people like you. And, I mean, we've been talking for about an hour and 20 minutes now, and I just want to, just to sort of wrap this, this whole conversation up. Is there any sort of parting thoughts that you have for everybody or anything you want to discuss and get a chance to

Curt Wiser 1:26:03
Yeah, thanks, super quick, because you talk about the net worth, net worth and everything is what you're worth. I mean, I recently have to just give a shout out to a novelist that I became friends with, EA stripling. She's got a novel series, internal conflict is the first one I just really have been inspired by how she kind of just took me in and after just contacting each other and talking back and forth, and I really like what she does online and promote her stuff, and we just are probably going to continue to collaborate. So it's all just about making those connections and taking opportunities to bring them up. You know, when you when you get a chance, because she sings my praises and like, it's like, oh, wow, you said that. So nice. Thank you. But So final thoughts, I honestly did have a question for you, if we have time right after this, but really, it just, it just all comes down to, I really just have to reiterate that you have to really have a your heart in it. Because I know you've heard other people say the advice like they say, is there anything else you'd like to do besides filmmaking, you know, law, whatever, a doctor, okay, pursue that because it would be infinitely easier than than working in that. I don't want to be so hard nosed about it, but I just do want people to understand where that comes from. It comes from the fact that it is such a grind. It is so hard you're going to be just wrought with with doors being shut in your face and and obstacles along the way, just like great stories that you want to be telling. You know, it's just one obstacle after another, and it's all about being that protagonist that has that goal that is just so solid that you're going to see it through to the end, if it takes eight years, it's not that project, even if you have to. In the meantime, while you're trying to get that one project going, you're writing the next one and the next one. Because you can see an IMDb Pro, if you subscribe, you can see professionals. They have eight things in development, and they probably have two or three things that aren't even listed, that are in development. And the reason is because, yeah, it might take even a year or two for one of those that pan out. You just don't know if it's the stars have to align, and it's just, it's just going back to that. It's just remembering that it's really something you have to just have a passion for. If not, then it's, it's maybe try a different, different avenue, or a different part of the industry. You know, some people can be consultants. Some people become agents. You know, maybe that's kind of, you're close to the right track, but it's just a little slight deviation from it.

Dave Bullis 1:28:35
And, you know, that's so true Curt, and honestly, I want to say thank you so much for coming on, but you know. And just sort of, you know again. You know when you're meeting all these people, I always say, you know, no matter who they meet, no matter where they are, I always say, Stay humble for as long as you can, because you know. You know what I mean. Because you never know who you're going to meet again. So if you're, if you do meet somebody who's a PA one day, they could be your producer the next day, or a consultant, like you were just saying, or running an agency, or who knows what, and then all of a sudden, you're, you're trying to pitch to them, and they're like, hey, remember, remember me, we were on that set, and you were a jerk to me and and you just, you don't want to be that situation. We're like, sorry about that. But you know what I mean?

Curt Wiser 1:29:21
People remember, I think, unfortunately, I think they remember the jerks more than they remember the nice people. They definitely remember both. But they kind of make a point to remember the jerks they don't want to work with again.

Dave Bullis 1:29:31
Yeah, yeah. I seriously. So So Curt, just in closing, did you have a question for me?

Curt Wiser 1:29:38
I did okay, like said earlier, I am a listener, and I don't think ever any heard this kind of address. And I'm really curious, just for myself, I really love the, I guess, industry term for its bumpers, you know, the great intros and outros. You have this outro. I honestly have to know what is the story behind this. This, this outro, the voice of this. You know, I. That it's about to play.