fbpx

IFH 098: How to Build a Pimp’d Out BlackMagic Cinema Camera Rig on the CHEAP!

When I began my filmmaking journey with my first feature film, This is Meg, I had no idea what camera I’d be shooting with. I had access to both RED Cinema and Arri Alexa Cameras for free if I wanted them but I choose against using them on this film for the following reasons:

  1. The infrastructure need to make those camera work was complicated and expensive (even if you are getting the camera bodies for free)
  2. I wouldn’t have the freedom to shoot whenever I had the cast available. (we shot over 6 weeks)
  3. The “footprint” of those cameras do not lend themselves to run and gun guerrilla filmmaking.
  4. The Post Production workflow would be costly and high-end RAID drives are expensive.
  5. Production Insurance would be needed and that’s expensive.

So I looked around and choose the remarkable BlackMagic Cinema Camera.

“But Alex you are nutz! You could’ve shot on a RED or ALEXA and you choose a BlackMagic Cinema Camera?”

20160729_170607

Yes, I did. For a few reasons:

  1. I could own the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, play with it, test and experiment.
  2. No production insurance.
  3. Small footprint for those “guerrilla filmmaking” moment out in the streets.
  4. Amazing post-production workflow (I edited and finished This is Meg on the DaVinci Resolve, more on that in the podcast)
  5. I could affordably pimp out the rig and customize it for my shooting needs.
  6. This is Meg is a small character-driven indie film, shooting with RED or ALEXA would’ve been overkill.

IMG_0022

Shooting with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera

Now I’ve been a colorist for over 10 years and the image quality of RED or ALEXA are superior to the Blackmagic Cinema Camera but you need to choose the right tool for the project.

The Blackmagic Cinema Camera gave me the freedom that the others couldn’t and the Blackmagic Cinema Camera is BY FAR the best bang for your buck. Speaking as a colorist and the director of photography of the film, the image quality is stellar. You just need to understand the camera’s strengths and weaknesses.

Here are some tips when shooting with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5k.

  1. The Blackmagic Cinema Camera needs a ton of light.
  2. Make sure you shoot at 400 ISO unless you are shooting nights. Try to always shot 400 ISO.
  3. Record with a minimum of 240gig Card (about 46 min of RAW).
  4. SHOOT RAW, not ProRes 422 HQ!

I also decided to shoot with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera because of the amazing RAW Cinema DNG file it produces. I shot with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5K, not the 4k version. The 4k would’ve been nice but the cost in media and hard drives out weighted the extra pixel. I also knew I’d be mastering in 1080p and blowing up to 2k for the DCP deliverable.

You can shoot ProRes 422 HQ but I’d suggest shooting RAW because if you don’t light the scene perfectly having that RAW Cinema DNG file can really get you out of a pickle…trust me!

I go into great detail on how I put this rig together in this week’s podcast. I share tips, tricks and real-world stories of what worked and what didn’t. I also talk about the post-production workflow I went through editing in DaVinci Resolve.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 2:30
So let's just go back let's take it back before we get into it. Let's take it back a little bit to so many months ago when I decided to make this movie. I decided to make this movie in April. We are now in September. So in April I decided like I'm gonna go make a movie and I had I owned a Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5k which I use for some you know, internet stuff and some minor little things. So that's why I never got a 4k camera at the time because it was a little bit just didn't make sense for like YouTube and stuff like that at the moment. So I had this camera I was like well, let me know. Let me let me see. Let me start testing it. So I started testing it. I have a set of rokinon lenses, which I'm going to actually go into a whole other podcast about the lenses and about where to get them and all that stuff in another podcast. But I had some broken on lenses I had a sigma 18 to 30 zoom lens, and I start playing with it and since I'm a colorist, I started throwing it up on the da Vinci and seeing what I could do so I started pushing the camera and seeing what I could do with it. And I was really shocked at how beautiful the images came out. You know, and you know I've I've worked with Alexa I've worked with reds. I've worked with phantoms. I've worked with a ton of different high end cameras, but this little camera was really impressive. And for what it was, you know like for the it's by far is the best bang for your buck on the market. There's no question. I'll argue anybody that for the money. This is the best image you can get for the money and have the ability to have a raw file. color grading. It's amazing. It really really is remarkable and I'll talk a little bit about the post workflow about the camera and a little bit towards the end of the episode. So anyway I decided to put together I said, you know what I'm going to shoot with this camera. So I've got a lens package that I've had, and a couple tips I wanted to give you guys on when you're shooting with a Blackmagic Cinema Camera. And by the way, first of all, people asked me why didn't you shoot with the 4k version? or Why didn't you 2.5 simple answer was I owned a 2.5 I didn't want to spend extra money on getting a 4k and then also the amount of hard drive space and media that I wouldn't need to purchase to have to get just to be able to work with all the workflow considering I was the DI t i was assistant editor I was everything I needed to simplify the workflow for myself. So what I decided to do is just shoot it a 2.5 so let's just put this put it into perspective, if you get a card, let's say a 240 gig card, an SS SD card is what they what the Blackmagic shoots on it that gives you at raw 2.5 gives you about 45 minutes now if I would have shot 4k that 45 minutes would turn into 27 minutes and then I would have had to purchase more of them or purchase larger ones so like my 48 I have a 480 gig card as well that gave me about an hour and a half of raw which is pretty amazing. But they're expensive man they're like 100 and some dollars each now mind you not as expensive as a red or an Alexa such situation. But you know for a very low budget kind of movie I want her to kind of make it as bare bones as possible. And also I wanted to kind of create this experiment to see if I could create a full blown feature film that looks looks good at such a low budget with a you know a camera that's not known for making cinematic images not my Don't get me wrong they are but like you know nothing compared to an Alexa or a red so I wanted to see what I could do with it. So I said screw it I'm gonna do 2.5 it just made more sense for me workflow wise. So right now just so you guys know I shot apart six terabytes of footage for this little little movie shooting red I mean shooting RAW and so if I would have shot 4k, it would have been 12 terabytes now 12 terabytes you know, like oh, I would just get a couple of you know, eight eight terabyte drives and you're good to go. Yeah, but you know, if you want redundancy, if you want to have at least two copies of everything, which is what I have, plus have an array drive. So if things crash, you have protection, things like that it starts getting pretty pricey. So a six terabyte to 10 terabyte situation becomes a lot a big, big big difference especially at this price point. So a couple tips. This camera loves light lots and lots and lots of light. So make sure you always give it plenty of light it holds the highlights very well. And it also digs into the darks very well I was surprised at how much how much it kept the latitude on this is you know on the paperwork it says 13 stops. So you know and I wouldn't push it that far. But if you put if you shoot it down the middle and you have probably you know three or four stops real clean latitude. It's pretty remarkable and you also want to shoot it at a 400 ISO I know they say it's rated at an 800 so but both Austin my my second camera and gaffer and myself both figured out that 400 was the way to go and and we could tell the difference so we definitely shooting 400 ISO now, by the way, anyone who's listening to this and if I'm talking gibberish to you guys, because you don't understand everything I'm talking about. That's fine. I'm just gonna go and go over a little bit of this. I'm not expecting you guys to know everything I'm talking about. But I wanted to at least put the information out there and there's a little bit a lot more detailed information on the post at the NFL muscle.com forward slash zero 98 so the other big thing is do not and I repeat Do not shoot a feature film in pro res four to two HQ. You will be tempted to shoot in progress because that 480 gig media card that I had would carry I think it's like five hours of progress on that one card. So you're like Oh man, I could just shoot all day on one card. Yeah, that's all great and dandy. But the problem is that you have to shoot that movie perfectly. So your lighting has to be on point you cannot mess up. The beautiful thing about shooting RAW is that if you do make mistakes on on the set with lighting, not enough lighting, not enough time, which I guarantee on a low budget movie you will make mistakes, it happens I made mistakes. But because of the raw file the raw file allows you to fix those mistakes. If you would have shot pro res if I want to shop pro res in this movie, there's a lot of shots that I probably wouldn't have been able To work with purely because of time light, not having a full grip truck, and many other things that I had did not have on the shoot. But shooting RAW saved me. So I would definitely suggest shooting RAW and that is one of the big, big selling points of the Blackmagic cameras is you can shoot RAW even the pocket camera which I'll talk about in another episode, which I don't own, but I've heard is great and you're able to shoot RAW in any time you can shoot RAW, that is what you want to deal with. And then I'll talk about the workflow Honestly, I'm going to do an entire podcast about the post workflow, how I worked in DaVinci, how I've colored this intervention, how I edited the entire movie in da Vinci, I'm going to do an entire workflow of a podcast about how I did that. But this one's about building this camera rig. So first things first, obviously, you want to get a Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5 you can get a four. And that's no problem. But understand that there are just going to be those little workflows like on the next movie I do, I'll probably go for purely because I now have the infrastructure of purchased the hard drives that I need, things like that, that I can handle a bigger workflow. Since I was doing this all from the beginning, I just had to kind of play it safe and didn't want to get caught up even myself and pose even though I own a post situation, I didn't want to get myself caught up and wanted to make things as simple and easy as I could buy it while still maintaining the best image quality possible. So get yourself a black magic, again, links for all of these things are on on that on the URL, the media that I used Kingston digital, I got a 480 gig SSD card, and I got a 240 gig, most of my cards were 240 gigs, I had like four or five of those and had one 480 gig, which I used for the big long night. And they run anywhere from 80 bucks for $81 right now on Amazon for the 240 to 145. And they kind of go on sale every once in a while. But those are those are the prices. I mean, that's really, really cheap considering if you try to price out what read media costs, or what Alexa media costs. It's pretty remarkable. And also, just so you said you guys know I had access to full red dragons. And full Alexa that would have been given to me for free to shoot this movie because I have friends and I have a lot of people that wanted to help me with this movie. But I decided against it. Now I know everybody listening like Alex, are you crazy, you could have shot with a red, you could have shot with an Alexa, it would have been so much better. I'm like, Yes, the image might have been better, arguably, it definitely would be better. But for the kind of movie that I was trying to make, which was a low budget, indie drama, it, it was overkill. And I'm going to give you some examples of why I decided to go with a smaller camera that still gave me amazing image quality. One, I can own the camera, I can play with it, I can test it. And I could do all an experiment and do all sorts of different things where if I would have been given this camera I would have had to have shot. First of all, our schedule was a six week schedule, meaning that I only shot eight days within those six weeks because we work in around actor's schedules. So because of that we needed to do many different shooting experiments, things like that no one was going to give me that cam those cameras for six weeks just sitting around in my house so I can play with that's not going to happen. So that was one of the reasons I wanted to do it because I was the DP on this movie. And I wanted to kind of play with it, test it, see really what I could do kind of beat the camera up. And I wouldn't have been able to do that. If I didn't have this camera. Another big point no production insurance. I didn't need any rental production insurance. So anytime you go to these big houses that are going to give you $100,000 package, guess what guys, you need insurance, and I did not have the money nor did I want to go out and get production insurance. Again, I was trying to make this as simple of a process as possible. And that was a big selling point. Another thing is it's a small footprint. Even that big rig that you guys saw is a smaller footprint that then a read package or an Alexa package on those guerilla filmmaking moments that you're out on the streets, possibly stealing shots, possibly going into places that you are not allowed to shoot to get shots, having a big rig is going to be a problem. That's why the DSLRs have been some popular because a lot of people go out and no one even knows you're shooting a movie. So this camera I you know when I had to go into more heavily populated areas where I didn't have particularly a permission to shoot you having a smaller rig helped dramatically could not have done that with an Alexa. The other big selling point is amazing post production workflow that I was able to just bring it into DaVinci Resolve which is owned by black magic. So the workflow is super seamless. I can edit raw, I can color grade and finish my movie right in there. And also the affordability of the pimping out of the rig as I like to say and customizing it to fit in My shooting needs was so much more affordable. Even if I would have gotten a red Camera Raw by itself. To try to get a rig, you would have to rent a full blown rig. But if you're going to try to purchase those kind of ancillary products to kind of help or actually make the damn thing work, you need all these kinds of things to make it work. It's super expensive. So shooting with a black magic, I was able to create an entire rig, professional wonderful rig that worked probably on it, I think I don't know what the final total was, but was under 2500 bucks, not including the camera. But just a rake was under 2500 bucks. In probably less than that. Without and probably about two grand. If you include the media and things like that, then it'll probably be around 2500. But that's it's insane in the camera world. That's insane. And I want to go over all of those little nifty tricks and vendors that I found that helped me get to this high quality rig at a very low cost. So we've gone over the medium. The next thing is the camera cage, the camera cage is something that actually wraps your camera and protects your camera from other from, you know, dings and lumbung bangs and stuff. But it also allows it to give it a little bit more weight. And it gives you ability to start building your camera rig, you can start attaching things to the rig itself because it has the the hole that you can kind of screw things in on and kind of build this kind of Frankenstein monster of a camera rig, which completely is unique to us. So when cameras when you see camera guys and camera rigs out in the world, those were built by the camera guys themselves are very, they're not stuck. They're all very specific to the needs of that camera person that cinematographer that production because that's the way it works. So that's what I wanted that freedom at a price at a definitely a price point. So I use cam tree hunt pro cage, which is for the Blackmagic Cinema Camera. Cam tree by the way, you're going to hear their name a lot. Now I did not get paid a full disclosure did not get paid a dime. I've never even been in contact with these people. They've never contacted me. I love cam tree products, they are the most again, I use this term a lot best bang for your buck on the market period. And they have dollies they have just everything a filmmaker would need at a very affordable price and built pretty solidly is it as solid. Alright, so let me just let's just put it this way. This this, this rig is $237 a standard camera rig, even on the cheap end is about eight and $900. And then if you start going into the more professional world, the higher end world you're talking three grand two grand, sometimes up to even five grand for these kind of rigs. This rig was made of metal it has has rods, you're able to put two, two sets of rods in one at the bottom and at the top. You've got two wooden handles a remote switch, which by the way saved my ass. I loved having my little remotes which basically just grabbed the handle and I hit the little red button I didn't have to like fumble to hit the record button on the camera. It actually had a remote cable which was great. You've got a handle with a top where you could actually mount a mic if you wanted to get like some real you know, quick ambient sounds. And it's just brilliant. And you can just slap it right onto your tripod. And you're good to go. It's so amazing. It really really is. So it works this this rig works for both the 2.5 Cinema Camera and the five and the 4k as well. The next is the preview monitor now, preview monitors as you know are obscenely expensive. And there's ever I mean you could spend five, seven grand on a preview monitor I mean, the red preview monitor alone is like three grand I think or something along those lines. It's pretty nuts. So I use the free world. Va f w 7597 inch Ultra HD now again don't have Don't worry about writing all this stuff down guys just go to the URL, indie film hustle calm for slash zero 98 and they have I have everything there. So I'm just kind of going over everything. This little monitors 149 bucks, and it works perfectly. Is it a 1920 by 1080 image. No, it's a 1280 by 800 resolution image, but it's vivid, it's clear and it's it's nice. It works perfectly fine. I'm not calibrating off this monitor I just needed something else to see comes with a hood. This little package comes with an arm comes with an HDMI cable comes with a little mount on it so you can just mount it directly onto your camera. It's really great. It's awesome. It needs a battery, which I'll talk about in a minute, but it was awesome. It's great for steady cams is great for low little rigs. It works wonderfully. It really really worked wonderfully for 150 bucks, you can splurge and go to 250. They have different versions. But this is the one that I use. I was able to mask out my 235 aspect ratio, which is what I shot Megan, which is in a 235 aspect ratio. It's pretty good. You'll see you'll see pictures of this rig, you'll see the pictures of the monitor throughout throughout the post. It's pretty cool. Now the one big thing you need is though this monitor and that's this is where this is where people get stupid. The the Blackmagic camera has a BNC cable out it does not have an HDMI output. So you need to get an SDI or not BNC excuse me an SDI out to an HDMI converter. Now usually these converters are extremely expensive, especially if you use the Blackmagic one specifically because it's louder. I don't know how much it is, but it's it's pretty expensive. I found one for 2999. It's wonderful. I attach it to the back of the monitor, ran the cables, and it works perfectly. works perfectly 30 bucks. It's the port of peche SDI, just check the link on the on the post. It's really really great, wonderful. The other thing I also needed was obviously a BNC cable BNC SDI, it's kind of the same thing, but the cable itself 899 890 these are all Amazon everything I got I got it on Amazon. Then I got a power power source for the converter, that actually cost 20 bucks, which is one of these portable chargers where you can quick charge your iPhone, and quick charge, like your iPad, I got it for 20 bucks, you slap it on that thing will last all day. It's wonderful. And I also use that to run my my audio setup my Tascam. But we'll talk about that another day. Great little trick. It's just it just works. It works great. The other thing I bought was the portable protective travel case for the monitor. This is not a luxury guide, you absolutely need to have this, it's 20 bucks, it's 20 bucks, it protects it you can put your batteries in there, you can put all your everything regarding the monitor you can put in there, it's great for 20 bucks. The next thing is the batteries. Now you do need batteries, and especially these kind of standard Sony batteries, which are the lie lie on DC batteries. They're like 20 bucks for the small 121 98 for the small ones. And then the bigger ones, which lasts a little longer than little fatter. They're 43 bucks. And they come in a package of two, with with a charger and a car charger as well if you get caught out there in the world, but it's really great, you slap it on the back and that I think I changed it with that once I had the big one on I think maybe on the longest day, we had to swap it out. But usually generally the last all day, it was just great. So there you go. Now the next thing I built out was a follow focus, you definitely need a follow focus. Now follow focuses can get stupidly expensive. And if you know what to follow focuses guys follow focus is basically what you attach to these rods that you build in your package. Again, I have pictures and videos of all this on the post. But you you attach it on. And then you can connect it to the gears of your lenses. And then based on that you can follow your focus. And I pulled all my own focus on this movie. So I'm actually quite shocked when you guys watch the movie, you'll see certain things that are ranking focus and stuff like that I did that all on the fly. And don't think I'm an expert or anything like that I just chose the best moments while I was editing. It's also a benefit of being an editor, you can hide all your mistakes, but I chose the up photogra dP 503, quick release, follow focus, which means that you normally when you put on, you know start building up rigs, if you can do anything that's a quick release, meaning that you can just snap it on and snap it off as opposed to just running it through the bars. And then and then if you like let's say you stack in two or three things, which you will on the on the rods, then it let's say you want to pull out the quick the follow focus because it's not working with your lens set for that lens that you have. You're like shoot so you have to pull everything out. But if you do a quick release, all you have to do is just open it up and pops right out. Quick release. I did a couple quick releases in this in this package, but that was great. It's 199 bucks guys works great. Is it the best thing in the world? No. Is there? Are there better ones out there? Yes. Does it do the job Absolutely. Never, never failed me once on my entire shoot. So that's the thing I'm trying to tell you guys. Don't always look for the shiny Oh, this is the best. This is the best I need the best. Just find what works. And it might work for one or two projects and then you move on to another piece. But you can't you know if you if you're going to start building up a rig that's going to last you for the next 10 or 15 years. Then you're going to talk about 10s of 1000s of dollars. But if you buy smart and check your reviews and listen to things like I'm talking about someone who's actually shot with everything, I'm talking About it's gonna be very helpful to you with any productions or films or anything that you do in regards to gear in the future. Now the next thing is the matte box the matte box is one of easily one of the most expensive parts of a rig I mean and I it took me a while to find this man it really did but the Find a solid, there's a lot of cheap there's a lot of cheap matte boxes out there that are all made of plastic and things like that. You want to find something that's made of metal that's a little bit sturdy, and that can do what you needed to get done. And there's so many aftermarket matte boxes that are built out for DSLRs that could be used for the black magic and you just have to find the right one. What I chose was cam trees swing away wide angle carbon fiber matte box. This was this is a great little a great little matte box that comes in its own little like carrying case you know it's plastic carrying case has all everything you would want it's a two stage matte box now as far as stages are concerned, two stages means that you could put one filter on or two and they actually both rotate so you can put a polarizing filter in there for for your your outside shots if you want to use a polarizer so having a two stage always get at least two stages guys if you get one stage you know I always got to get two stages but it was great. It worked wonderfully. And I loved it. It worked like it just worked like a charm for me and it's 245 bucks. I mean seriously it 245 bucks. It's remarkable. It really really worked really well for me and I loved it so that's my matte box suggestion. Again will it last me five or six movies I don't know. But it lasted me this movie and it'll probably last me the next movie. And it's it's pretty robust for what it is. You know I the closest thing I've been found to it was like like 15 $100 that was you know or 800 $900 that was even remotely close to what this gave me. And for the again best bang for your buck. So the cam tree swing away Oh and by the way, the swing away aspect of things is really important because if on set, you put it all on you mounted all into the rods and it's all set up. If you got to change the lens. If you don't have a swing away you got to pull the whole matte box off it slows you down. But with a swing away You literally just hit a little little lever and boop it swings out, change the lens pop it right back in and you're good to go. Well well worth it. Alright guys so the cam tree swing away carbon fiber matte box. Now this This is by far the most important piece of equipment I purchased on my camera rig. I call it the back saver. This is the camera the cam tree shoulder rig and it is plus support rod and this is so important because I was I was gonna do this entire movie handheld. And you know having this kind of rig on your body, he kills your back it'll kill your back if I if I you know the few times that I actually shot without the bar. Without the support rig. I was lying. within five minutes I was like oh my god. What this does is it basically gives you a weight belt that you strap on to your to your waist. A pole like kind of movable like it's kind of like a little mini tripod that you mount onto the camera rig. And you can kind of if you need to go up high, you can go up high, you can go down low, you can go low, it's pretty crazy and the stuff that I was able to get because of it it was almost like a dolly move sometimes because I was able to just really pivot as is really strong rubber core that allows you to kind of pivot anywhere you want and it saved I mean I literally could sit there all day which I did with the damn thing on and it just did not bother me as much Don't get me wrong I was still in you know I was still sore and in pain, shooting with it. But without it I don't think we would have been able to shoot it. It just it was so wonderful and the price best, the best 126 bucks I've ever spent. And trust me, if you're gonna do any handheld work at all, you need to have this and it works with anything it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be a chemistry rig or anything like that. You could use that any place that you have some rods, it'll plug right in and you can use it really really amazing rig guys so definitely use that. Now I keep talking about camera rods, camera rods, basically these big metal tubes that you can kind of slide into rigs to mount stuff on to. So I use the 18 inch rods because I wanted to have a big long handheld rig. And again, you're building this rig for what your production needs. So I knew I was gonna shoot a handheld movie. This was never once on In the entire movie was never on a pair on set a tripod or anything on a dolly it was always going to be handheld it was the style that I was going for for this movie so I had to build a rig that was that was appropriate for what my needs were for the film. So having 18 inch rods which are huge By the way, the 24 bucks I used the small rig, black aluminum alloy and you can get into carbon fiber you can get into aluminum and all that you can get into all the details dude guys this worked fine. You know you can get the more expensive ones if you want but these work perfectly fine. And it allowed me to put on a pad in the back for my shoulder which I'll get to in a minute and allowed me to stack on the the matte box the follow focus the rig for the for the shoulder rig weight thing, the support of the sport rod, as well as the rear the arm for the the preview monitor which I'll show you how I did that in a little bit as well. So it was it's invaluable. You definitely need to have them but again, you don't need to make it 18 inches you can use five inch, six inch, I think six six inch, eight inch 12 inch 1214 I think they have a 16 and an 18. So it just depends I chose the 80s because it made sense for me and it worked really really great. The next thing I chose that I needed for my rig was camera handles now I know you're gonna say well, you already had handles that came these beautiful wooden handles that came with the the camera cage but I decided I wanted to get a little bit I wanted to get lower so I can go because up holding it up high the the bodyweight wasn't proper for me. So I wanted to have something a little bit lower base so it kind of balanced everything out a little bit better. So I got the cam tree hunt, quick Mount 15 millimeter Rosetta handle set. It's 110 bucks. It's great and again you'll see pictures of it in the post. It's a quick release again so you could just slap it on boop boop boop slap it off and it was great. And you can adjust it to whatever you want. So I had one a little farther than the other one. And I was able to handle it so the way I set the the rig up is I had one of the wooden handles the other hook wouldn't handle on my on my right eye kept that one because that was the one that had the remote button. The other one I took off never used it and then I had the two handles at the bottom. So I basically held the top wooden handle and then held the bottom left handle so left handle bottom right handle wooden top and I know it's all sounding crazy in a podcast, just go and look at the video, look at the videos and look at the the the pictures and they'll be a lot more clear this way. But anyway, those two things really worked well for me and I was able to maneuver and move the camera really really well. 110 bucks it works. It's solid, it worked really really well. Now another really expensive part of camera rigs are the batteries to run it not everybody knows that the at least everyone should know that the battery that comes internal with the Blackmagic isn't that great it'll last you maybe an hour hour and a half maybe a running time. So it's just kind of sitting there and you can't pull it out or exchange it that's just the way the cameras built. One of the things that they decided to do so they said look you're just gonna have to get an external battery source now looking into battery sources, you're going to get the V mount batteries which are industry standard. And they you know the the mounts themselves are expensive, you're talking about 300 400 bucks for the mount. This is just something to plug into the camera. So then you could purchase a battery, the battery mount that up now it is robust, it is great having these v mounts. They're wonderful, but they're expensive and if you're doing something on a really low budget like I was, and again I wanted to see how low budget I can get and still have it work as an experiment. And I found this amazing little company called juice box juice box batteries. And these guys are amazing for 100 bucks by the way those batteries those v mount batteries one to $300 sometimes more per these little juice boxes because my camera was small and not a red or an Alexa. It worked beautifully. And I'll show you and I'll talk to you about how I was able to mount them it actually comes with a mount on it's like a little screw you can actually screw it into the side of the camera rig and you're good to go and it works perfectly. But I wanted to be a little bit more clever a little bit more cool. And I wanted to have my own mounting system like a kind of like a V mount. But on the cheap. So by the way, these batteries run 109 bucks and they're built for the Blackmagic Pocket cameras as well as the production cameras. They will last my the camera around three to four hours each. So I probably most of the time never even on the day. My biggest day I never ran more than two batteries. So they basically just cover you for the most of the data and when the when the cameras not being worked on or braking or something I turn the camera off. Don't let the camera just keep running and running and running. So it's great and the wonderful thing about it is it actually juices up the battery side the camera. So when you run out of batteries on that battery dies, the battery inside the camera picks up so you never get a loss or a drop or like oh my god, which you would have on a red or an Alexa because they don't have internal batteries. This has an internal battery. So if you're on Iran and you stuff like that you still got let's say that you run out of battery, you still have about an hour, hour and change of the internal battery left to keep shooting and I pushed it a lot of times so I could just keep shooting. So it's a wonderful system. I really loved it. I got three batteries, those three batteries lasted me the entire shoot because I just figured I'm like I'm never gonna shoot more than 12 hours. And I'm never gonna have the camera running more than 12 hours in a row in one day. And by the way, once you pull one off, you could just start charging and it takes about a couple two to three hours to charge it up. So it's fine. It worked great. I love that juicebox 109 bucks for the price of one battery. Do you have three and that that covers it so basically it for 300 bucks basically which will cost a normal v mount battery. You can get three of these guys and they're a little bit lighter and they just work really really nicely now what I like to call is the guerrilla battery mount how I was able to mount it to my camera and have kind of like a quick you know kind of like a quick release mount. What I decided to do is I bought a quick release clamp adapter fork as basically like a camera plate, a tripod plate, but it was really small and you can screw it right into the back of I screwed it right into the back of my shoulder pad which I want to talk about in a second. And I then I screwed the other end into the back of the bed the juice box which by the way comes with screw holes built into the battery, they know what they're doing. So you can just you can just attach it to anything. And then you just easily just go pop pop pop in pop out and it was great. It was just wonderful. I have a video showing the entire process in the link in the in the post. And again guys I keep referring back to the post. This is one of those podcasts that is basically helping or giving you a little bit deeper dive into the post because you need to visually see a lot of this stuff to be able to understand it. So this is just kind of like an ancillary piece to kind of help support peace for the post. But I want and I'm going into a lot more detail in the podcast and I did in the post purely because I'm talking and as opposed to writing. So the the in that by the way that cost $7.40 so I bought five of them. I had a couple extra just in case anything went down and you were good to go. The next thing I bought was the shoulder rig it's a cam tree hunt flexible shoulder rig mount which I originally was going to use as a shoulder mount. But like a full blown shoulder mount before I found the the shoulder rig with the support rod. So what I did is you could just I just unscrewed the the actual shoulder pad which was great by the way The Price Is 125 bucks. The you could pull out the pad which was great. It has all sorts of mounting capability on and that's where I mounted the battery and then the arm aspect of it I use to mount my monitor. It was great so I just put it into the rods and then it was a very flexible arm so I could kind of move it wherever I wanted and it just I just screwed it in. And we're out the door It was great. The cam tree flexible shoulder Mount 125 bucks Can't go wrong. So guys, that's basically it. Now you'll see an extra handle that I had I had an extra old wouldn't wouldn't camera handle was like 125 bucks that's rubber and stuff I had it when I owned my red camera and I just had it lying around so I used it and it was really nice having two handles to kind of jump the camera pull the camera on and off but it's not needed. But other than that everything that's on that rig I've just talked to you about. And that's the breakdown of how I was able to build a pimped out camera rig and the final price for this entire rig I'm going to tell you is that unadulterated era dump 20 150 bucks approximately for everything I told you in here including the batteries. So that's including all the batteries including all the media so you can drop the media depending on what your needs are. But that alone right there was like three 400 extra bucks so for say 20 $150 I pimped out an entire Blackmagic rig and then the Blackmagic itself is retails for about 2000 bucks but this is what I did. When I bought it originally I bought the I bought it with by the way it comes with an official copy of DaVinci Resolve. So that DaVinci Resolve retails for about six 700 bucks 800 bucks or I think it retails for like 1000 bucks for the for the retail version so it has the dongle so what I decided to do was I took because I already owned a Vinci but you if you already have you can get a free version of the Vinci and it will handle pretty much almost everything that you would need to done. So you really don't need it unless you absolutely want it but what I did was I took that the Vinci that the Vinci Copy and I sold it on Amazon. Because that's the way I hustled I sold it for I think was 650 bucks. So for that 650 bucks, chop the price down of that camera to 13 150 bucks as opposed to 2000. So there you go just saved you 650 bucks by doing that. And there's not a lot of competition for that, by the way on Amazon, so or you can sell it on eBay as well. But you'll get at least five or 600 bucks for that Da Vinci dongle. And there you go. And if you don't need it, unless you absolutely do the research of what your needs are. For Da Vinci, if you're going to use DaVinci as a finishing or editing program, then do it. But there you go. So honestly, all in for under 3500 bucks, or under 3500 bucks. If you use my Da Vinci technique to sell, you've got an entire Camera Rig package, no lenses, yet lenses are another story. But entire camera package you've got for under 30 $500 that's going to shoot you cinema quality images, that and you're shooting RAW. It's pretty remarkable, guys. I mean, the world that we live in is pretty amazing. So I again, I went out to make this as mag, not only to prove that I can make a good movie that I enjoy and enjoy watching. But that I couldn't do it on the cheap. And do it myself. That's one of the reasons why I mean, I have a ton of cinematographer friends who wanted to dp this for me for free. And I said no, I'm gonna do it. Because I want to prove that it can be done. It was an experiment. And that's what Meg is a lot of Meg was an experiment to see what we can get done on the lowest budget that we could get everything done on. And we did and I can't wait for you guys to see the quality of the images, the quality of the story, which I really love and the performances of the actors and Gil and everybody. But on a technical standpoint, I wanted to see what can be done. I wanted to do something that really it's not done as much anymore, or at all. You know how many movies have you heard that's been shot on the da Vinci, the Blackmagic DaVinci 2.5, edited on the Vinci and colored in a da Vinci and finished in DaVinci. It's it's not something you see every day. So I wanted to prove that it can be done with tools that you guys all have access to. So that is that was my one of my goals in making. This is Meg, I wanted to prove to you guys that it can be done. And hopefully, I've shined a little bit of light, a little beacon that says Holy crap, if Alex can go to this, I can go do this too. I can I can scrounge up to three grand, and get myself this camera package. And by the way, you can also probably get the 4k version. You know, there's a lot of us versions of us things out there on eBay and on Amazon and things like that, that you can buy a little bit cheaper. Now everything I bought, by the way, all this rig stuff was all brand new. So you could try to buy it use if you want to go even cheaper, but I wanted stuff to at least you know, because it was so cheap. Anyway, I was like Screw it, let me just get the new stuff. But I hope this inspires you guys to say shoot, man, I can go shoot this, I can go make a movie. And that's what I really hope this is Meg does for all of you guys, for the tribe. And for anyone who hears the story that it can be done that we can go do it. And there's no excuses anymore. Because I know a lot of you guys out there like oh, I don't have the money to go rent a read or I don't know what I'm doing, I need to hire a dp and I need to do all this and all that, well, you know what you do. And that's fine if you want to, or you can go my route. and educate yourself enough, you know, because if you buy this camera, take six months and go shoot a bunch of shorts, take six months and just start playing. If you if you're starting from scratch, and start playing and seeing what you can do with the camera, push the camera, push yourself, you know, shoot tests come back. That is the wonderful thing about owning your own rig where you can go off and play and do experiments and see what works and what doesn't work. So when you go into battle, when you go on to a feature film, you're ready to go, you're ready to rock and roll. You know, and I did a lot of testing before but I learned a lot every day I shot on mag I learned something new about the lighting about the camera about the lenses about what I can do. And that's even mentioned let's talk about the story and working with the actors and things like that you always learn every time you shoot. But on a technical standpoint, since I was holding so many hats or wearing so many hats on this project, I learned so so much from doing it. So guys, there's no frickin excuse, man. There's just no excuse. All right, I don't want to hear anybody. I just I just talked to a guy who made a movie with the Blackmagic Pocket camera. The pocket camera for God's sakes. Not even the Cinema Camera, the pocket camera, which brand new is 1000 bucks us you could probably get it for five or 600 and there's rigs for all of that too. That cam tree makes as well that you can go shoot an entire movie with the pocket camera. Like that's crazy to me like I'm like shoot man, that's even nuttier. But you know what he got a movie made and he's and he rocked the rock and rolled with it and this guy's off and it looks great. electric cars even with the pocket camera, you can shoot RAW. And that's the key guys shoot RAW, shoot RAW shoot RAW. But I hope again, I hope this inspires you to not sit on your ass, you can go out and make something. And don't wait for like the best and the brightest and I need this or I need that. And one other thing, guys, a lot of people that don't want you to succeed, or a jealous or are just little trolls let's call them that don't want you to succeed or jealous or any of this stuff are going to tell you Oh God, you shoot the black magic, what a piece of crap camera that is. I actually had someone say that to me on this project. And I heard it from a second source. And I said to myself, you know what, man? You could keep talking all your crap, but you know what? I've got a movie made. What have you done? Huh? There you go. That's the best kind of revenge. Just go You know what, it's fine. You can say whatever you want. But I've got a feature made. And I'm going to have two more next year. And I'm going to just keep going. I'm not going to let anybody tell me Oh, it's not the best or what a crap camera or it doesn't have this or there's a crop ratio with your lenses and all this stuff. Look guys, it is what it is. And you do what you can now, one big huge tip guys, I'm sorry, I'm going off on a little tangent here. One huge, huge, huge, huge tip. And I'm going to put this on the on the post is if I was going to buy a brand new camera today, this is what I would do, because I bought a camera that had an EF mount. And the F mount is basically a Canon lens mount. So you can only use Canon lenses on it. So what I would do is I would buy a micro four thirds mount. And you're going Alex but I don't want to use Micro Four Thirds lenses. I'm not suggesting you do. But what you do do is you buy something called the meta bones adapter, the meta bones adapter, this is this magical piece of gear. It's about six 700 bucks, it is quite pricey in our world. But for what it does, it is amazing and I would have bought it if I could have done it but they don't have a Canon Canon mount. So when I buy my next Blackmagic I'll buy a micro four thirds and then just have this adapter live on it. What this adapter does, it gives you another stop of light. So if you have a one eight lens, you end up shooting at a point eight. This is like Stanley Kubrick style lenses lens like light sensitivity, like what he shot with Barry Lyndon think Barry Lyndon was at a point eight or point seven to shoot that sensitivity. That's what it does. It allows it basically takes all of the light available coming into the lens and just focuses at all. Also, there's this little thing called a crop factor. Because we are shooting with the Blackmagic cinema it's not a full full sensor, super 35 millimeter full sensor size. So in other words, when you put an 18 millimeter on the lens, you're not getting really an 18 you're getting more like a 24 millimeter so you get a crop factor so you're not getting everything that the lens can give you. This meta bones helps with that. It helps eliminate much of the crop factors you get bigger images, you get more of what the lens has to offer. It is magical man, I can't wait to start using it. I saw testing with it. It's great the meta bones adapter I'm going to put at the very end as a bonus on the on the post. And if I haven't said it enough, the post for this the show notes for this is indie film, hustle, calm Ford slash zero 98. So guys, I hope this shines light on my camera rig. I hope you get some inspiration out of it that you guys can go out and do this yourself. I mean seriously, go out and do this yourself. Don't let anything stop you guys. There's no excuses, is not 1997 anymore. It doesn't cost millions of dollars to go make a movie. You can go make your movie tell your story. And as I always say you have a responsibility to get your art out into the world because you have no idea how your art will affect another human being. So now we're done with the inspirational talk. I'm off my soapbox now. Episode 100 is coming up guys. And I have I have some things cooking. I think you guys are gonna be really excited to hear what is going to be on that episode. I have I think I have a little surprise for you. I'm not sure yet. But it's Episode 100 It's a monumental episode for me, because I can't believe that I've done 100 episodes and a little bit over a year. Because I'm crazy. And I have I have a life but I don't know how I am able to do everything I do but I do it. Anyway so keep an eye out in the next next week. It will come out so keep an eye out and definitely listen to that episode is going to be a lot a lot of fun. So guys, as always, keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive. And I'll talk to you soon.

YOUTUBE VIDEO

LINKS

SPONSORS

  1. Bulletproof Script Coverage – Get Your Screenplay Read by Hollywood Professionals
  2. AudibleGet a Free Filmmaking or Screenwriting Audiobook
  3. Rev.com – $1.25 Closed Captions for Indie Filmmakers – Rev ($10 Off Your First Order)

IFH 073: Film Gear in Cinematography Today with Ernesto Lomeli

Oh, the dilemma! What film gear should I use for my film? Which camera will give me the look I want for my project? What gear can I afford? Well as I’ve said before:

“Film gear does not make a movie, the story does. No one ever won Sundance or an Oscar® because they used the latest and greatest film gear. They won because of, you guessed it, story.”

With that said choosing the right film gear for your project is important. You need to have the right paintbrush and not necessarily the most expensive or newest paintbrush to create your opus.

super 16mm film, Kodak, 16mm film, 16 mm film, 35mm film, 35 mm film, filmmaking, film school, filmmaker, indie film, ARRI SR2 ARRI SR3, Bolex, Eclair film camera, film camera

I thought it would be interesting to have cinematographer Ernesto Lomeli on the show. He’s one of the most technical film geeks I know. Ernesto shares a bunch of knowledge bombs with us in this interview and discusses what film gear to get and what you really need to make your project sing!

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 2:20
Now today's special guest is Ernesto Lomeli. He is a cinematographer and has an amazing story of how he's become a cinematographer who he's working with who his business partners are. The kind of gear he works with. He is easily one of the more gear heavy, extensive gear freaks that I know of. But yet he understand that it's just gear, but he loves his new gear. And he knows and plays with all of it. So he gets to play with all the toys. I've shot with Ernesto on multiple projects over the years. And I just love his energy. He's one of the most mellow guys you've ever met in your life. He is super awesome and extremely talented cinematographer. He does a lot of work, a lot of commercial work short form work music videos, and he travels the frickin world. I mean, every time I see him on Facebook somewhere, he's somewhere else in the world like and you know, seeing a passport or seeing out a window of an airplane. He's always traveling and he's a very worldly, cinematographer has done a lot, a lot of good work. So I thought he'd be a really nice guest to have on the show and really explain to you guys a little bit about gear a little bit about the process of cinematography and working with low budgets, which he does do often. And he's just a wealth of knowledge. So I wanted to bring him on the show for you guys. So sit back and enjoy my conversation with Ernesto Lomeli. I would like to welcome to the show Ernesto a good friend of mine and the most knowledgeable, gearhead, I know in regards to film gear and all things cinematography. Welcome to the show, sir.

Ernesto Lomeli 3:55
Hello.

Alex Ferrari 3:57
He's very quiet. Hopefully he will live in up as the interview goes on. Now I'm joking. So our guests and I go way back we've shot a bunch of projects together a couple music video, one music video and a few a bunch of commercials and stuff like that. So I know how to I love working with Ernesto. He's awesome. And every time that we have always worked together, we always brings out a lot of his toys. And then he tells me about all his other toys back at home. So I wanted to bring him on the show to kind of talk about his his perspective on being a cinematographer and all that kind of good stuff and gear, gear gear gear. I wanted to talk about gear cuz there's nobody, honestly that I know better, especially the dog in the background. know more about gear than Ernesto. So are you ready, sir?

Ernesto Lomeli 4:39
Oh, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 4:41
All right. So what what made you become a cinematographer in the first place,Ernesto?

Ernesto Lomeli 4:45
Um, Um, well, I kind of decided to do this freshman year of college. I was a big computer geek and at the same time, I was a big, still photographer. So I spent a lot of time in the darkroom and They used to geek out on cameras and lenses and, and at the same time, you know, build my little Pentium computer and geek out on that and log on to BBs systems, and all kinds of stuff like that. So I think they kind of just went hand in hand. And when I actually decided to go to, I graduated high school year early, and then I kind of spent that year kind of traveling and working and making money. And then eventually, when I had enough money for, for art school, I ended up going thinking I do photography, but it's just kind of boring, because you kind of just work by yourself, I remember the first assignments were like, go do this and go do that, and didn't really have anybody to work with and didn't really think that was fun. And I took some indie film, intro to filmmaking classes, and they were really cool because it was our group stuff. And it was super techie and really relied on your knowledge of the technology and filmmaking at the same time. So it was kind of cool, it was creative and technical. And you get to collaborate with people. And that's kind of I'm kind of a people person, too. So it kind of just kind of fit.

Nice and you went to asi right.

Went to asi, but first went to. I actually went to the Academy of Art in San Francisco, which at the time, was one of the better film schools back 15 years ago. They had a really good inventory of 35 millimeter cameras, and there just wasn't that many schools shooting 35 it was kind of the new big deal. school. It was before New York Film Academy. I mean, at that time, it was a sci fi which but that was a graduate school only. There was Chapman. Or no, I live it was before Chapman really had a film program. It was Brooks. There was the film school in Cuba, there was NYU. And then there was the watch Film Academy.

Alex Ferrari 6:57
Now the film school in Cuba, I've heard is insane.

Ernesto Lomeli 6:59
Yeah, it is. And but for some reason I was attracted to San Francisco. At the time I was I did High School in San Diego. And my older brother had graduated from San Francisco State. I had friends that lived up there. So it just seemed like a, like a good transition to move up there as a you know, 18 year old by yourself, and not be too far from anything. So

Alex Ferrari 7:26
You're kind of like a vagabond and in a lot of ways.

Ernesto Lomeli 7:29
Yeah. So it's pretty cool.

What was your experience at ASI? Because that's obviously such a prestigious school.

You know, it was funny, the whole time I was at the Academy of Art, all I was looking forward to was finishing so that I could have a portfolio prepared enough to be able to apply to ami. But at the time, in hindsight, I didn't realize how hard our little year of people at the Academy of Art Believe it or not in my because you know, especially in art school, and like art center and things like that. Your your freshman classes 400 deep, but you know, I remember in our film program, actually walking at graduation, there was only 30 of us, 35 of us. So it was a very close knit incestuous very competitive class that ended up graduating and I'll be honest with you, a lot of the people I graduated are very good working cinematographers right now. Nice. I think maybe I lucked out. But the year I went there, I feel like we were we were one of those classes that just one of those outlier classes it just kind of kicked butt and it was great because every single week, all we would do is try to up each other's projects and we would just jump from each other's jobs back and forth and everybody everybody would just work on everybody's projects non stop. And we were always trying to one up each other with how cool and how crazy in the lighting and you know how many favors we were able to pool and you know, how far we were able to bullshit our permit and this and that and, and by the time I finally got admitted to a phi i realized that most of the people I had already gone to school with and all these things that I had worked so hard for for the last few years. If I kind of felt like I had already done that, myself so hard, right, right. So so so hard by the time I made it to a fi It was kind of redundant. Don't get me wrong, there were still some amazing things like Steven Knight Hill was an amazing chair. Bill Dale is the man even to this day, I will always place an eyeline because I'm scared of Bill Daley yelling at me.

Alex Ferrari 9:55
I know I noticed that when we work together that you actually put an eye light on everything.

Ernesto Lomeli 10:00
Yeah, I mean, it's it's just one of those things, you know, you get yelled at it about it so hard. But um, you know, I lines, I lights, things like that were things I learned that if I but the reality is, after my first year I just, I didn't really see the need to continue and my teachers themselves even told me they're like, Hey, you know, you're good you're getting if you're getting offers for work, you should go work, don't spend another year and another, you know 60 something $1,000 here, they're like, go do it. It's like, all right, you're right. And so that's what I did. I never went back for my thesis. I basically finished everything except my thesis.

Alex Ferrari 10:43
So the the one fascinating thing he told me a story that you told me is that you actually partnered up with the academy award winning Gizmo Nevado as a partner, and I'd love for you to tell everybody that story because it's a fascinating story.

Ernesto Lomeli 10:58
Um, yeah, it's actually quite funny. I was working as a camera assistant, here in LA for a few years. And a producer I was working with we were doing a we're shooting a Bushmills commercial, and producer was Cuban. And believe it or not, I mean, there's just although you see a lot of, you know, Mexican cinematographers winning Academy Awards. There's not really that many, you know, Hispanic, Latino, or Mexicans that are actually working in the film industry. Trust me, I know, in proper positions, right, that security crappy. The truth is, I mean, when people say that, you know, when you say you're in camera department, or you know, you're the DP people are like, Oh, really, like, Oh, that's interesting. So at the time, so it, people really do kind of want to help each other out. It's like a whole, it's like a immigrant, kind of just mentality of everybody, you know, a rising, rising tide lifts all ships kind of thing. So, producer I did that job with he was doing a job up in San Francisco with Guillermo, and Guillermo just had a hernia operation, he needed an operator. And he's like, hey, if you want to come up and do this job, he's like, the money sucks. But, you know, you might get to work with somebody really cool. And he told me who it was. And I was like, Yeah, dude, you don't even have to pay me. I'll be there. You know? Of course, of course, always, you know, he won the Academy Award for Pan's Labyrinth, but I'll be honest with you one of the most amazingly shot movies I've ever seen as the devil's backbone. And just those sequences with those kids in that orphanage, mom in the courtyard is just

Alex Ferrari 12:47
Gorgeous. It's gorgeous, gorgeous stuff.

Ernesto Lomeli 12:49
It really is. It really really is so

Alex Ferrari 12:53
And for, for those people who don't know who we're talking about, again, Guillermo Navarro has worked a lot with Guillermo Del Torro he's done most of his movies, right?

Ernesto Lomeli 13:00
Yes. Yeah. So he shot his first film.

Alex Ferrari 13:04
Exactly. So that's who we're talking about when we say get one of our for those who are not in the know. So continue sir.

Ernesto Lomeli 13:11
Um, so anyways, we ended up going up to San Francisco at the time, I had already been working in LA working as an assistant working as a low budget indie cinematographer. And at that time, I had already had always liked to own equipment because I'm kind of a techie geek

Alex Ferrari 13:32
Do you the ultimate sir I've been I've been in I've been in your place sir. I just drool every time

Ernesto Lomeli 13:41
And you know through film school besides working on set, I had worked at a rental house there for years so it was just one of those things that everything just went hand in hand was just you know, you want to learn how to get the shot you know, you asked to borrow that lens through that adapter. So gear for me was just you know, it's like I always looked at it, at least in my head and maybe this is how I justified it. But I always thought of it as you know, being a carpenter and knowing your tools. It's having pause different every chisels different you know, everything is everything has its purpose and I never understood people that would just always go out and read something different all the time. It's like you have to use it 5678 times before you like really get a feel for it. Like you really really get a feel with how that lens is gonna flare. How does it really look on the face How does it contrast You know, when does it lose contrast? You know, and and every lens on every camera on every sensor on every film sight, black, completely different and, and it's just this it's like being a chef and you know, being asked to cook with a spice rack, you know, set a spices for the first time and you're expecting to be fantastic at it. It's like no, you have to know how to use everything.

Alex Ferrari 14:57
You have to know how to use those spices because a little bit too much of this. Little not enough of that won't make it work

Ernesto Lomeli 15:02
That and you know it, the dynamic of the film industry is changing. Everybody wants a deal. So you know, you being able to come out as a package with equipment and you know, as a starving cinematographer, obviously, you know, they never have money for your labor and they barely have any money for gear. So when you combine those two, you kind of always work, we got a living. Now you're not really making a profit, but at least you know, you're just working. And somebody's literally paying you to practice your craft. Right? Right. And I found that invaluable. So that was my approach. I worked through camera department, but at the same time in parallel, I was doing the indie film hustle. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 15:48
Exactly. Nice plug, sir, I appreciate that. So you and get more partners in a company and you guys work together. And I like to have a ton of cameras that you work with together, correct?

Ernesto Lomeli 15:58
Yes, so. So gamma, and a lot of film cameras, I owned a couple of digital cameras, and we decided to team up, right, as kind of digital revolution was really happening. The Reds, the reds, you know, we were about to transition into the epics, the Alexa was just about to come out. And so we started working together in news. Now he has a world of knowledge, storytelling, wise and visually, and I got lucky enough to be kind of the guy who knows, you know, my breadth of knowledge visually is good, but obviously nowhere near as good as a master like him. But I did have a pretty good bridge towards that. And, you know, technically what is coming out and, and I think we made really good partners. And over the last few years, we've, you know, we've been kicking butt nice, him doing his movies and, and me working my way through a commercial roster. And once again, you know, he had that same mentality of like, why am I going to make other people money? I could, I could get a loan or hustling hard or do this, and then it's like, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have my own tools. You know, we both came from that. From that same world, maybe it's like a pull yourself up from your bootstraps kind of immigrant mentality, or some

Alex Ferrari 17:28
You know what I'll tell you, I think, you know, being being the guy who's hustled all his life, you know, and coming from market like Miami, which is I'm sure you've shot in Miami, so it's not LA, as far as a market is concerned. So in order to be able to make a living, you've got to do things that you're not, you know, you're not, you're not normal, it's not taught that way. So like with you with your gear, mine with my gear, my gear was post. So I would, I would have all the gear for posts and then sell myself out or sell the suite out, and they wouldn't pay my time, but they'd pay for the suite and so on and so forth. Because that was kind of the way everything was going. But it's it's a special mentality. So hustle, no question.

Ernesto Lomeli 18:08
So but at the same time, it's like you never really trying to make money you're trying to make enough to pay for everything, but you really want to do is just get the next cool project.

Alex Ferrari 18:20
Right, exactly. And sometimes that knowledge in that gear will help you get to that point, which which leads me right to my next question. You got to shoot some second unit on Pacific Rim. Is that correct?

Ernesto Lomeli 18:30
I actually did the epilogue and the title sequence.

Alex Ferrari 18:36
Right. And that was that must have been amazing to work on such a huge budget.

Ernesto Lomeli 18:41
Yeah, it was pretty cool. Um, as they were finishing up the film. They needed a way to explain this world. Yeah. And my friend, Matthew Collin. partners with Guillermo del Toro is a production company called Murata they tasked Marotta and Matt to direct this this is prologue as to how we got to this world Pacific Rim in two or three minutes and explain the kaiju and explain how it How did it happen and what worked and what didn't work and you know why we are where we are now and trying to do it in a graphic beautiful, intense way that's not just text in two to three minutes It wasn't easy. The film was being market tested and as they were screening it and asking them you know, the studio was asking for changes and this and that because certain story aspects when making sense all of a sudden we would be sent out you know, fly around the world and shoot you know, recreation of a riot sequence somewhere in Thailand or you know, Shoot slums in the Philippines so that later we could comp in giant robots in you know things like that and recreating basically recreating a backstory and at the same time we we got to have a really cool adventure basically

Alex Ferrari 20:18
Now is you've obviously worked on a lot of commercials, a lot of music videos and and worked on. You've never you haven't shot a feature yet, but you do. You're mostly doing commercials and music music videos at this point, correct?

Ernesto Lomeli 20:29
Yeah, it's mostly. You know, I'm 33 years old, which is still pretty young

Alex Ferrari 20:35
God, you are you and I didn't know you were that young. He pissed me off, sir. Sorry, go ahead.

Ernesto Lomeli 20:42
You know, I feel like I'm you know, as much as I would love to be somewhere else and be doing, you know, movies. And I feel like I got very lucky with circle of people that trust me very well that they themselves have come up over the years, like I am where I am. Because now as an assistant to production managers, and a coordinator, you know, we were all hustling together. And as the years went by, they moved up and I moved up, and then all of a sudden, it's like, Hey, I have a job. Do you want to do it? Yeah. Yeah. Because there's a sense of trust. And then after a few other jobs, you know, somebody else trusts you, and you're just your circles to start growing through awesome. reputation. And of course, your body of work, but it's pretty rare for somebody to hire me just from something they saw on that website. You know, that's always they heard of me, right through word of mouth. Yeah, through word of mouth, or they were a client's on a job, or they were the, you know, they were helping producer job, or they were doing something on a job. And when they got their job, they're like, Hey, are you interested? And now slowly, but surely, your Rolodex just started growing and growing and growing and growing, and it's the snowball effect, man, as long as you keep doing good work and have a good attitude. It's just gonna keep drunks, but I I'm in commercial lenders, that's my roster, right? People You know, that's my my click. What like commercials?

Alex Ferrari 22:14
Well, what I find fascinating about you is you probably the most mellow man I know. And onset no matter how crazy it is, you are the most mellow so it's, it's fascinating to to work with you. And that's because a lot of people aren't like that on film sets, as I'm sure you know.

Ernesto Lomeli 22:36
It's funny because I, I've worked for other DPS that were kind of crazy. And after one job, I just kind of even not consciously you just kind of go I don't know if I want to do that job again with you. Yeah, right now they call you for a job and you know, like, anything that I could you know, especially before you know, I was in the union has always been like, well, how much money is there? And what is it? I don't really want to do this with you. I am all right. I think I'd rather not be sad all day. kill myself after you know, you feel dirty after doing a job as somebody mistreats you right breast out that's mistreating other people. It's just like, why am I even here? And it's like, you know, it goes back to that same, you know, same mentality is like, why are you doing this is because you love it because you want to have fun. And, you know, when you when you want to achieve a certain position and a certain job title, like you're responsible, like you want to be a cinematographer, but you're pulling focus, or you're loading magazines, or you're downloading cards. You, you can't help but feel, especially when you're working with somebody don't respect you're like, man, I could do their job. And I could hit so much better. No more frustrating thought that could enter your mind to ruin your day. Yep, then that. And I was very careful not to put myself in those positions, because I saw myself my own mental state being poisoned, and I didn't like that. So I got lucky enough to work with really cool people. Even in low positions, I didn't really fucking care. Because in the end, I was working with some of the people that I really respected. And the bigger and the bigger and the bigger the DPS and the directors I got to work under the more and more I realized they're really cool. And they're confident because this is like the 500th commercial they shot. Yeah, and they have a sweet commercial 20 times, you know, last 40 years or 30 years and like, it's just it's just another day in the office. You know, it's like an athlete going out to play a game you know, it's just the big game. They're like, yeah, it is but It's what I do you know it's and it's it really changes people's attitude on set it's like oh wow we're really behind and we're waiting on our department and the truck hasn't landed and the lights in the wrong place because we're three hours behind and originally This is going to be backlit but now it's frontlit and you know and and the mentality from all these people that I would work with who is just like whoa, figure it out It's not my fault so I'm just gonna figure out the best way to just do it and and not lose sleep over it you know and it's and it's a great mentality and you know, attitude if you've ever been on a bad film shoot if you've ever been on yeah attitude is all you have you know, it really carries along the entire job and it trickles from the top you know, it doesn't good attitude doesn't trickle a trickle up it trickles down to

Alex Ferrari 25:58
The PA with a good attitude is not gonna it's not gonna make James Cameron not do what he does

Ernesto Lomeli 26:03
Not gonna change the shoot but a director or a dp with a shitty attitude will definitely poison a department or a whole crew and make a lot of people really angry or frustrated or not even want to be there

Alex Ferrari 26:17
Because it's a tough it's a tough business in general just to do the job sometimes being on set for 12 hours 14 hours and having to do it's a high stress high pressure situation sometimes and having you know toxic

Ernesto Lomeli 26:30
Because eventually it just kind of turns into a routine it's just another day

Alex Ferrari 26:33
But when you have the right people when you don't have the right people

Ernesto Lomeli 26:37
Yeah it's it's all about perspective correct projecting an attitude and sometimes you just got to let stuff not get to you and and if you are lucky enough to realize that you're actually making a living doing this and people are hiring you you realize you're kind of in a really good position so it's like so what if the sun really isn't where you want it to be? You know what we'll just figure it out maybe I could talk to the director into shooting it on tight lenses or no maybe we can just wait a little bit longer and get that nice beautiful light and sunset or they pack it ask them to turn it around the other way right right right.

Alex Ferrari 27:16
You just figure it out, just figure it out

Ernesto Lomeli 27:17
You always got yeah i mean that's that's just the thing you got to just figure it out.

Alex Ferrari 27:22
Now what is your favorite camera if Do you have a favorite camera and to shoot and why

Ernesto Lomeli 27:29
You know what I get asked this a lot I'm sure there is this inherent bias

Alex Ferrari 27:36
Yes yes I'm waiting for it go for it

Ernesto Lomeli 27:41
People are camera racist

Alex Ferrari 27:45
That's the best terminology have ever heard camera racism I

Ernesto Lomeli 27:51
Oh my god well especially agency camera department assistant directors before camera racist and it's because reason to believe other people's propaganda and bought it right right.

Alex Ferrari 28:09
It's like computer races like computer Mac versus PC or it's or editing racism.

Ernesto Lomeli 28:15
Like, like Chevy Ford. Yeah, I know. stuff kind of mentalities. It's like they do the same thing it gets you

Alex Ferrari 28:25
From different they have different flavors but are different flavors

Ernesto Lomeli 28:29
You know so I mean I'm obviously in a very unique position in that we own everything so but you know most people they rent everything so it doesn't matter there's there's just this thing that happens where people saw the end it all started I think with the behind the scenes featurettes on DVDs You know, it wasn't just American cinematographer and things like that it was it became mainstream when you would see the behind the scenes movies that being shot and you know you'd get the commentary but more and more people were watching it because it was you know, is part of these beautiful DVD feature at the bonus features and be like oh we're shooting on this with these lenses and we're shooting on this with with this film stock or these lenses and all of a sudden you guys asking you like well I want to shoot on this

Alex Ferrari 29:26
Right oh no and let's not even get into the genius marketing that is red camera

Ernesto Lomeli 29:31
I'll be honest with you they're all the same and I know the red noise pretty well No no, I'm

Alex Ferrari 29:36
Not talking about the cameras. I'm talking about the genius marketing. Like what red did they kind of ambush the film industry?

Ernesto Lomeli 29:44
Yeah, yeah, cuz they really were doing something but we'll get into that. Okay. I you know, there's many times where I get asked from a client to shoot a project on something that is completely the wrong because that's

Alex Ferrari 29:59
Yeah, yeah. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show

Ernesto Lomeli 30:11
Oh yeah like oh you know we need to run in gun a lot we're going to be jumping through different countries we're going to be kind of just landing and scouting maybe we could shoot some sunset plates while we're there and then we're going to need to do this and that like okay, I can I want to shoot it on anamorphic on Alexa asked for an 80 pound camera everything and you know just as the batteries to power that for the day because we're not going to have access to power we're going to be hauling around 200 pounds with a batteries if it's not the right tool for that job

Alex Ferrari 30:49
It's like tell and I always tell people it's like telling your plumber what plunger to use like it's his job to know what tools to do the job with

Ernesto Lomeli 30:59
Tell me what you want it to look like right and it's like I'm gonna be the asshole who's gonna have to have it on my shoulder for 12 hours right there's a whole there's there's that you know and it's it's so silly

Alex Ferrari 31:13
It is and I look I get it I get it on my into like before like a Final Cut versus avid versus premiere. Now the Vinci versus baseline I'm like guys just please you know let me What do you want to do want to look Do you want pretty pictures? I'll make them pretty just you know

Ernesto Lomeli 31:32
Obviously you know sometimes there are certain requirements

Alex Ferrari 31:35
Ofcourse get you either workflow issues or things like that. That's understand emotion right

Ernesto Lomeli 31:41
Right. frame rate size and yeah, there's always something but I feel a lot of people are like hardcore read users hardcore Alexa users, they would not even dare you know, yeah, use the other one it's like it's here's something that people don't realize that beautiful set of lenses that you know they used to shoot x movie on x camera is gonna look completely different if you use those same lenses on a different sensor Of course, you know and and the way you

Alex Ferrari 32:18
Like it, or in a film plane for that matter

Ernesto Lomeli 32:21
Every single lens sees CCD combo gives completely different images. A set of cooks are gonna flare one way Lexa another way on the Phantom another way on film and then another way on red it's just the way it is. certain characteristics will be there right but just different

Alex Ferrari 32:45
It's just a tip just it's completely different you know I've been I've been a red guy for a while but I know and I jump on I jump on a live shot on election I've worked with Alexa project worked on black magic you know there's so many different cameras DSLRs all sorts of different things you just kind of have to if you hire a good dp just let them choose the proper tool as long as it works for the workflow and that you're able to handle that workflow and that conversation is had because I'm coming from the post then you know if you're if you're working on a laptop and they give you 8k probably not a good idea.

Ernesto Lomeli 33:21
Yeah, and I mean I've done jobs where I've been really lucky to sometimes work on these like video installation wall pieces like we did we did the centennial with AI for IBM this beautiful installation piece at Lincoln Center a few years ago. Last year we shot the film that's the headquarters of visa so we shot this beautiful around the world peace but like the visa job I think the deliver the final deliverable one that was 12k and you see to one aspect ratio Oh Jesus you know at the time we want to shoot as xcite it's like

Alex Ferrari 34:05
No not happening not today

Ernesto Lomeli 34:09
The wrong tool for the job because you have such a such a specific post requirement. So we ended up shooting 6k Dragon with a custom resolution ratio to use every single pixel we did in a three to one ratio knowing that it was going to be tile stacked and and even then they were going to have to duplicate pixels and stuff but

Alex Ferrari 34:32
Yeah, now you're getting into a whole other conversation.

Ernesto Lomeli 34:34
Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm pretty techie with sure of course of course. But those you know, that's one of those things. It's like the right tool for the top.

Alex Ferrari 34:45
Now do you have a favorite lens package that you use? There's like it do is a preferred lens package you use

Ernesto Lomeli 34:51
Right now I think for the last two years I've kind of really been in love with my set of uncoated cooks.

Alex Ferrari 34:57
Oh uncoded cooks. Okay, nice. Can you explain Can you play Everybody want a coated a coated cookies and I'm not code because I remember when you were, I was in your place when we were talking about it, or he used to just gotten them one of the two. And they're gorgeous

Ernesto Lomeli 35:12
Cooks are obviously these beautiful handmade lenses with this long lineage. There are a set of optics that have been around since they were telescopes in England as well as a Tyler Tyler cook, Heather cook. You know, it's if you ever hear old, old movies, the old Pancras people, you know, they would call it the one inch the two inch. That's how we used to do focal lengths based on the length of the actual lens, because there was only one set of lenses in Hollywood, you know, right. So bring out the one inch lens bring out the right, you know, 25 5075, that kind of thing. So they have this very classic, classic look. But they tend to be quite warm. And on digital sensors, I find them to be overly warm. So cook did this brilliant thing with a set of their mini as far as where they sold the front element with the coatings on the front elements before they apply the anti reflective coating on it. So if you shoot with a set of slices, or if you shoot with a set of cannons or whatever, especially on devices, you know, I remember when we were coming up like the super speeds were were still kind of the lenses, they would have the T coatings on right now. And that was a really big, big deal because you know, they would flare a certain way you could shoot, you know, into the sun, you could shoot headlights, you could do things like that, and the image would fall apart. And it was these these amazing coatings that sys had designed that hold contrast really well in high contrast situations. Or would it hold a flare and keep contrast? The problem that happens is you know, as light overwhelms lens, you tend to lose contrast, which you know, makes the image look soft, or you lose any detail in the image, they just, the light just bounces back and forth in between all the all the different elements of glass, and it just creates pollution basically. So they coat these lenses with these special coatings. So the light kind of only travels in one direction when it wants to bounce back, it gets absorbed or deflected. And it doesn't really pollute the image very much. So that's where you get these beautiful sharp flares. But cook decided to try doing an Amash to an older look. When they first marketed these lenses they marketed as the rebirth of the Pancras, which was their first generation of cinema lenses. So they decided to sell a version with the front elements without coatings to kind of give it that softer kind of more, Larry, classic look. And I really liked them because it's new lenses with kind of a middle ground old look. And I don't know, I just, I've really fallen in love with them. But at the same time I shoot with everything. Right? Alright, but those are kind of the ones I they're just always on the truck. Always with me, you know, well, that's one of the beauty of owning gear too. It's like, you know, sometimes you know, you're going to need a big long, you know, the way the day is going to go, you're going to be on a dolly on a long zoom, and you're just going to spray down every scene because you have you know, celebrity talent, you're going to do the lines three times, whatever and you just need to shoot the wide, medium and tight with, you know, your schedule is so tight. You can't afford to, you know, five minutes to flip a lens and recalibrate everything. You just gotta go go, go, go go. Now what, when you you'll have a big zoom. But I always keep a case of primes in the back, you know, just in case.

Alex Ferrari 38:56
Now what's a good zoom? Like if you were going to rent or zoom or something like that, in your opinion.

Ernesto Lomeli 39:02
I know there's so many once again, your flavor your flavor, sir. I'm an optimal guy. Okay, so this I think everybody in the industry, I think 90% of everything you see on television is shot on a set of outcomes.

Alex Ferrari 39:15
Got it. And that's a pretty expensive lens if I'm not mistaken.

Ernesto Lomeli 39:19
Oh, well, they make a quite a big variety. But yes, they are very expensive because they're very complicated, very precise, and they're workhorses.

Alex Ferrari 39:29
They just last,

Ernesto Lomeli 39:30
They just freakin it's a precision piece of equipment that gets thrown in a case tossed in the back of a van. slammed onto a camera, handheld, run around, push the places you're in the forest, you're in the jungle, you're dead, it's hot, it's cold. Yeah, it's hot, it's cold. Some idiot doesn't know how to use it. Some other guy really knows how to use it. Like it's just one of the things that it's just they're just so well made, but I'll be honest with you Almost all lenses are pretty darn durable.

Alex Ferrari 40:03
The pandemic obviously depends on if you're looking at the higher end stuff like I mean, I have a set of a broken ons, which is just a, you know, a little little set that I bought for my, my little shooting that I do here and there nothing that I would do for a client. But and those I always look at they're kind of they're metal, but they're not, I wouldn't rent them out, let's just put it that way they're not gonna last.

Ernesto Lomeli 40:26
I mean, you it's the thing with filming equipment is you just have to understand, you get what you pay for. Yep. And this is no six unit not being screwed. You know, people aren't charging you five times as much as the Chinese version just because they're trying to make a profit. Believe it or not, a lot of equipment is still you know, even though it's CMC, it's all batches. And it took somebody a long time to figure out how to make it and it's a company with very few employees, things like that. And no matter how expensive you think it is, it's barely making them any money. They're doing it out of passion like Zeiss. Their cinema division is less than 1% of the company.

Alex Ferrari 41:16
Yeah, cuz they do so many other kinds of optics.

Ernesto Lomeli 41:20
If you if you just if you just take into account microscopes that they make for the medical industry. Yeah, I mean, just there alone, just optics for telescopes, optics for military use. I mean, it's so much bigger yet, they still keep their cinema division, because I love it. Obviously division. It's kind of like a race car.

Alex Ferrari 41:41
Right, right. It's not a profitable thing. But it's a prestige thing.

Ernesto Lomeli 41:45
A prestige thing. Yeah. And the truth is, they really do develop some really interesting technologies with coatings and mechanics and things like that, through their cinema division that later gets incorporated into other things. But it's, it's their race team. So what it is,

Alex Ferrari 42:02
So I always wanted to talk to I always like talking to cinematographers about this question. Because it's it's kind of a touchy subject with because you're a professional you work with, obviously, professional, high end cameras. What do you think of the DSLR movement and DSLRs? in general? I'll tell you my multicam my point of view after you tell me yours?

Ernesto Lomeli 42:23
Well, when we started working on the five D first came out Sure. And and once again, it goes back to the whole other people telling you what to do what you should do your job on, we would get agency saying we want to shoot on a pipe. She's, like, the most amazing thing.

Alex Ferrari 42:47
Just analyze, just analyze that comment again. Like we saw the most amazing thing shot on the five D on YouTube, I'm like, Really?

Ernesto Lomeli 42:54
Yes. And they go oh, and it's cheap. And it's this and that it's like, yes, but you want me to be able to shoot super show that the field running gun, you want to be able to see it, you want to be able to have the director see it, you want to have a wireless feed to 500 feet away at all times. You want to be able to feed audio into it, you want to be able to and all of a sudden, that $2,000 camera that's renting for $150 a day. That's 40 grand with the things attached to it, you know, in a $50,000 lens just to make it work, just to make it work at the temple that you need to on a professional set where time is money. Oh god, that's such a great point of view. So it was just so ridiculous. And we all knew it was ridiculous, except the client. And they were loving it. And they would eat their own. Like they would believe their own height. Right? It's like oh, yeah, that that Yeah, we want to clear for it. Yeah, we only shot that and it's just ego right package for that five D was costing you two grand a day.

Alex Ferrari 44:05
So you could have had a right you could have had a full read package or even a new package to

Ernesto Lomeli 44:09
Shoot this out around. Well, it's because they wanted to be able to say they shot it, it's like, well, we have all these motion blur issues. We have to like redesign all these shots because there's no global shutter and refresh rate on the center. Or like, you know, it's it's just all these little things, and there's

Alex Ferrari 44:29
A whole movement, you know, I know Shawn, or Shane Herbert, the guy, the dpu got yelled at by Christian Bale. He loves the DSLRs but I'm not sure how much of that is real or hype or he's just trying to sell stuff. But I think

Ernesto Lomeli 44:46
I mean, in all honesty, he's definitely trying to make money. He's just don't get me wrong. He is a sponsor.

Alex Ferrari 44:56
He's a real dp. I mean, he's he's just he's he's really

Ernesto Lomeli 44:59
He's very talented. Yeah. But it's his hustle. He's how he

Alex Ferrari 45:05
He's also our

Ernesto Lomeli 45:06
The reason he, you know, as much as he says he shoots with these cannons, he doesn't he, he does do a fair amount of things with them. But they're rarely his ache. Right? You know, he'll do some jobs with like 2020, c 300, things like that, because that's the kind of job for it. But you know,

Alex Ferrari 45:27
He's not shooting Terminator with that. No, he's not, he's not shooting a real movie

Ernesto Lomeli 45:32
It's part of the marketing thing you got to remember, like, for some odd reason, because of this DSLR thing, everything became the the market, the film market went from being a very obscure, tiny, very specialized, very expensive set of people to this just ballooned exponential number, because of things like YouTube and the internet being fast enough for you to be able to stream video, and there's just a market for a lot of video, like, it just, it's just exists. So the quality went down, because the quantity went up. And it's just is what it is. And so, I mean, everybody I know, that makes things for the film industry, they want to be able to say they made stuff with the red and for the Alexa and for the, you know, for whatever, but the truth is, they're really making their money selling the DSLR base plates, because they're going to sell 1000 of them, you know, as opposed to 90, you know, little Alexa cheese plates, you know, they're gonna sell 1000, you know, XLR adapters to, you know, mini trs is, that's, that's really,

Alex Ferrari 46:48
It's money, it's money. It's just money, it's all about money. So basically, obviously, my point of view from DSLRs is every every DSLR project has walked through my doors, and I've done probably four or five features shot on the DSLR which frustrates the hell out of me. Because DSLRs Yes, if you have a good dp, you have a ton of gear attached to it, you have great lighting, that you can get some good images out of it. Sure. But, and then you could do something within an imposed, but everything I've ever done has always been, you know, you know, under under hat with God, like under $200,000 $100,000 features that are, you know, just jamming it through and then they're like, Well, why can't I call her this? I'm like, because there's no latitude, and you've you've Yeah, shot at night.

Ernesto Lomeli 47:34
For some odd reason. People think that they could save money. No, they don't they hurt themselves on the year. And it's just like, just do it. Right. Do it. Right. Well, I mean, I understand there are certain projects where DSLRs are great. Yeah, I was doing, you know, around the world kind of docu job. Yep, no, I would always have a DSLR or something. Steel shot. So you could do this and that. So you could have a second unit that you can just send off and do stuff,

Alex Ferrari 48:02
You can shoot beautiful bottom lines, you can shoot some really beautiful images with a DSLR if you know what you're doing, and there's no question about that, but

Ernesto Lomeli 48:10
It's good, it's the right tool for the job, correct. You know, if you are if you want to work with, you know, see quality equipment, but one in a quality product, it's a tool for the job, and you're gonna end up paying for it, whether it's with us having to wait for for your crew onset, because they have to put, you know, a focus ring on these little SLR lenses, or the depth of field is so shallow that they just can't get this, they can't get the shot in focus. You know, the director can't really see or, you know, all these things, you're gonna pay for it later, whether it's with time or whether it's having to correct a bunch of things and post you know, it's just things cost what they cost and you're not going to you're not there's no magic doesn't exist. Yeah, exactly. could save a little here knowing you're gonna have to pay for it later. And that's fine. If you want to pass the buck home. Maybe you know, you only have so much money for your live action part of your project. You get a rough cut together, you know, you raise more funds and then you know, you'll have more money for post and that's great. You know, but I don't think most people think about it like that.

Alex Ferrari 49:22
Well, I think I also like the movie tangerine that was shot on the iPhone. Everyone's like, well, now we call make movies on the iPhone, you know, the new iPhone, and it shoots 4k and all this stuff. And I'm like, Guys, the guy who shot tangerine, he didn't he wasn't a kid that just grabbed his iPhone and shot a movie. He's a professional, who knew what he was doing. And he used it as an IT WAS a tool that he wanted to use to tell that story. the aesthetics of how to

Ernesto Lomeli 49:48
Do you remember do you remember the whole dogma kind of revolution, if you will. I remember

Alex Ferrari 49:54
I remember the Canon when God what was that one, the mini DV cameras came out the DSD VX LAN yeah the SL one those those cameras I remembered there was like a feature shot with it with Katie Holmes and like that was like oh, what was that 28 days Danny Boyle shot a whole thing on 24p on it

Ernesto Lomeli 50:15
People don't realize that they use those tools because they had a specific look right? And then you try to apply that fabric mask you know, it's just everybody wants to do everybody wants to do something for less and sometimes it's a race to the bottom I feel like the whole DSLR thing is kind of gone away I haven't been asked to shoot anything.

Alex Ferrari 50:39
No because because the bigger cameras have become so affordable like I mean you can get a read so affordably now the technology has gotten so better and I think people finally figured it out that DSLRs are not

Ernesto Lomeli 50:52
You're not always the right tool for the job but sometimes they are you know absolutely absolutely some crazy body mount stuff or the things with the drones like the GH foreigner drone is beautiful and you know we've been doing a bunch of body rigged stuff and we always you know the ACE seven S is fantastic for things like that

Alex Ferrari 51:12
It's just using the right tool at the right time for the right job

Ernesto Lomeli 51:15
That's all it is. And but for some reason people are camera races this is what he This is what we should shoot on it's like no but it doesn't mean I can't love everybody I can't love all of them right I have their place

Alex Ferrari 51:30
Now this is another big question how many K's Do we really need because it's getting out of hand

Ernesto Lomeli 51:39
I mean it kind of comes down to I remember when we were still shooting film and right when he started coming around Pete we would go to a color correction the house would ask you like hey, do you want to color correct and standard def it's going to be this much right? Or do you want to color correct in HD will give you two masters you know a beta SP SD that's letterbox and we'll give you you know an HD Cam 1080 for the future just in case right and you know it's $1,000 more $2,000 more for color correct in HD because it has to scan it sure sure sure if it scanner a different this different that people would be like no no no we don't need that. And sometimes they didn't you know sometimes the project didn't really do that. You know, just like YouTube and things like that. It's like a lot of content we make notes just for the web. Right? But Vimeo and YouTube they have 4k players which are on TVs, which are on TVs no I just bought a 4k TV

Alex Ferrari 52:54
Of course you did why would why wouldn't you own a 4k TV I'm sorry I'm surprised you don't own a 6k TV sir.

Ernesto Lomeli 52:59
Well I actually didn't have a TV for like the last six years

Alex Ferrari 53:03
no I know you don't have a TV app but I just know when you said you have a 4k TV it just makes sense.

Ernesto Lomeli 53:09
For a long time that market TV is I wanted to see what some of these Netflix shows

Alex Ferrari 53:16
and how they look

Ernesto Lomeli 53:18
they look really nice even streaming Yeah, I mean obviously it's it's not DCI spec you know sure shape but it's you Hd 2160 P and it's you know it's it's more resolution it looks really nice.

Alex Ferrari 53:34
But let me ask you a question like again with the whole case I did a whole article about 4k which is one of the most controversial articles I've written and podcast I've did was about why indie filmmakers shoot and shoot 4k and the reason I said that was I wanted people to understand that there's a work there's workflow issues and if a lot of people will get themselves in trouble

Ernesto Lomeli 53:55
there is workflow issues and I mean five years ago and red first came

Alex Ferrari 53:59
out oh god that was nothing for it was very painful it was that's how I made the truth

Ernesto Lomeli 54:06
is now I mean drives are so cheap and everything is so fast. I mean my iMac just blow through footage with an integrated you know CUDA card it's fine um,

Alex Ferrari 54:19
but again for like it depends on you. You have that information you have that knowledge I have that gear that can push that kind of stuff. But sometimes filmmakers get themselves caught into like and if it's not 4k, it's 5k or 6k or 8k or whatever it is. Just understand the work most

Ernesto Lomeli 54:33
people I mean most people don't realize it but I would say two thirds of all TV are still shot 10 ADP. Oh yeah. Quick times on an Alexa on a five six year old Alexa. Yeah, and it's more than enough. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 54:52
So at a certain point, like now the 8k just came out. We're gonna be shooting.

Ernesto Lomeli 54:55
Yeah, we actually have two of those. Really excited Of course. Do one of those heavy jobs like

Alex Ferrari 55:06
yeah and also that's another thing visual effects guys do not like 4k that I know and they definitely

Ernesto Lomeli 55:11
love it well well but it's when you need it

Alex Ferrari 55:15
it's when you need it it's when you need it but also depends on like the VFX guys I work with that you know are doing Spectre and you know all the big you know, Star Wars and all these big movies, they are dealing in 4k but they're just like you know, even they're like when you're doing those frame by frame it just it's a hog and sometimes all

Ernesto Lomeli 55:35
depends on whether you have to do I think in the end, it always comes down to whether you have to do CGI 4k. Yeah, that's the thing. When you have to start actually rendering things. That's what I'm talking about 3d and 4k, and comping beast, it's ridiculous and then comping it and then we shot last year we shot the the you HD content for the new Samsung 4k. So all if you went to a best buy new sauce, Samsung TV, more than likely the little video that was playing I shot and arguments that we would get into it the client department, the engineering department had talked the marketing department into they had this thing and it made sense, but it wasn't the right tool for the job. They wanted to shoot 8k on the Sony f 65. Right which can interpolate. interpolate right and aka image based on the raw sure sensor. Sure, sure. There is an extra pixel for luminance and the ROB processor on on that computer will interpolate an 8k image out of it. And they wanted us to shoot everything aka so that they could down resit, back to 2160 GPU, you Hd 4k. So that would be the sharpest image possible, right? And guess what happened?

Alex Ferrari 57:09
What happened?

Ernesto Lomeli 57:10
There was one sequence where we had to shoot 1000 frames a second, we did these things with these football players on the stage. Okay, beautiful, you know, guy catching a football with streaming stadium lights behind the gorgeous stuff. It's just gorgeous, you know, and it was to show off the ability to hold contrast between a very dark situation and holding skin tones and things like colorful and vibrant. This is day two of a four day shoot. We brought out that camera we shot that sequence. And they were just so blown away with how pretty that sensor was. And I was like, Yeah, but it's not the 8k wanted. You know, it's it's DCI spec 4k. But it's not,

Alex Ferrari 57:59
which is more than it was just more than

Ernesto Lomeli 58:00
it's slightly bigger than 2160 p you know, it's 4096 by 2308. You know, it's just slightly bigger. But you know, we did five conference calls and you specifically wanted AK. And they're like, this looks so pretty great. So we set the 65 home which nobody wanted for workflow reasons. And, of course, files are so big. Yeah, they're

Alex Ferrari 58:31
not. That's the one thing that red has above I think about a lot is their, their compression for their. Their files have been awesome all the way through all the time.

Ernesto Lomeli 58:40
We were shooting 4k on the Phantom flex, yep. And we ended up finishing the project on it. And just the way it looked was just really pretty the client fell in love with it. And they just, you know, they're like, you know what, this is still more than enough resolution and it doesn't matter because they look beautiful, and they just move forward with it. And, and it's like, Okay, cool. And you just keep moving forward with it. And in the end, it's just whatever look the previous you know, from an engineering standpoint, if you are a numbers guy, you have 65 revolutionarily, accurate, phenomenal engineered piece of equipment. From an aesthetic standpoint, it's okay.

Alex Ferrari 59:21
It's about pixels versus emotion a lot of time. Yeah,

Ernesto Lomeli 59:25
it's it's cool. But, you know, sometimes things don't have to look right to look pretty and sometimes pretty is more important. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Working marketing. I mean, we we're not in an engineering department. I mean, there's engineering involved, but our job is to make sure that pretty, you know, absolutely we're, we're artists.

Alex Ferrari 59:51
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. Now you shoot a lot with the Phantom Can you talk a little bit about that camera because it's a camera that I know a lot of people haven't had an opportunity to shoot with and I know you love that camera even to shoot it straight even to shoot straight with it right not even it well first of all tell people what the Phantom does and what it's famous for as far as I rate frame rates and all that so

Ernesto Lomeli 1:00:18
the latest version is the 4k flex it really is a revolutionary Phantom it's the first Phantom I mean for a long time and they still are very expensive and they're very technical and the files are massive they're basically like image sequences in their own skinny wrapper. But they're pretty much only shoots uncompressed files just because there's no there's no bandwidth or processor heavy enough that could I could you know re encode these files on the fly at you know at 1000 frames a second so it's basically just pulling real raw images frame by frame off the sensor and spitting into into a solid state but whatever it is they did in order for their for their sensor is just so pretty this next gen this latest generation of sensor that they use is that they developed it's just he just has a very beautiful pretty look that doesn't look like any other camera really you can make it look like any other camera but the look it has itself is just so unique you know and for longtime people because it's so expensive and it requires a technician with a massive rig to download these huge files you know it's cost prohibitive me being really geeky and I really like it you know I trained myself on the camera so that I can just use it on normal jobs and you know we designed a little download station on a laptop so that we don't need you know full blown rig and we can make it more cost effective to clients. But there's some jobs who I just really liked the way the skin tones it's just really pretty and thankfully at the end of last year last quarter they released a firmware update that lets the camera shoot straight to progress.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:18
Oh wow.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:02:19
At 42 Hq which is enough for a lot of projects Sure. For most projects I'll

Alex Ferrari 1:02:25
shuffle yeah I bashed her all my movies we mastered for 242 Hq and that's perfect at 4k at 2k whatever Yeah,

Ernesto Lomeli 1:02:34
yeah so it's it's a really beautiful camera and unfortunately it's you know, it's really really expensive. So the day right Right, right, right, but it's so pretty.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:47
Now could you can you we're gonna I'm gonna go back to lenses real quick. Can you talk to explain to people what bolcom is in the bokeh? Mobile lens.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:02:55
The focus, you know, it's funny because I didn't really hear the term bokeh until I was actually out of film school. Okay, we never really studied it. Well, bokeh, I think is a Japanese term that means something but it's been adapted its meaning has been I think adapted into something it's been taken out of context. So what is what is it that somebody has a word for that out of focus background playing when you're shooting in a really shallow depth of field

Alex Ferrari 1:03:29
that's basically what that is and then but I've heard so many times like the lens has this beautiful bolcom to it

Ernesto Lomeli 1:03:34
Yeah, I mean the truth is what they're saying is they really like the IRS design the out of focus elements, okay, okay. People don't realize this but the book is really has a lot to do with how many blades the IRS has and the shape that it actually makes so that's why sometimes you see out of focus lights in the background like headlights in a night scene, they'll be perfectly round although have a little hexagonal holes or if you're looking at really old film, like with the Zeiss and B Speed system like that they have little triangles. People love anamorphic because the layers or oval because of the sheer optical compression and, you know that's a bokeh but it all kind of really came about with the depth of field adapters and like the length the 35 millimeter lens adapters back in the day of mini DB and like the Red Rock micro Oh god, yes, the Red Rock then like all that stuff, because they wanted that filmic look and the way to shoot a filmic look for a long time was a shallow depth of field because the non filmic look was mini DV with a with a smaller sample size. That means more things were in focus. So everybody saw well if I want it to look like a big movie, I have to have shallow shallower depth of field shallower focus.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:02
I hated that Red Rocket, Red Rock of a sudden

Ernesto Lomeli 1:05:05
everybody, you know, everybody's, for whatever reason. It's kind of like putting spinners on a shitty car. Big rims on it, you know, pick the phone. And it's enough. And sometimes it's more than enough. You know, there's nothing wrong with a fake Gucci bag. You know, it sells look, nobody's gonna ask you to open it and look at the stitching in it, you know? Right.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:31
Right. Right. And they will.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:05:33
But it just that's where the that's where the whole bocce word was. That's kind of like the, the timeframe in our industry when that whole Cunningham came along, because they needed a way to describe that out of focus, shallow depth of field. feature in in these these 35 millimeter lens adapters, back in the day for mini DV kits.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:59
That's a very, very good explanation of what welcome was now I know a lot more than I did before. Thank you, sir. Now, this is a this is a selfish question, what do you look for in a director when you're working with

Ernesto Lomeli 1:06:11
them? Some of you that knows what they want somebody that that isn't just like a no person that, even if they don't act like somebody that knows what they want, even if they don't know how to get it, it doesn't really matter. That's my job, I'll figure out how to get it. I have a crew of really talented keys, that if I don't know how to get it, I'll ask them, because they've probably done it before. Or they're pretty smart guys, they'll help me figure out how to do it too. You know, that's part of the collaboration process. But if you get a director that goes, I want this to feel different, I want it to possible to rig a camera to hear so when they fall, they feel it gives us this vertigo effect. And you're just like, you know, I don't know, why do you want to do that. They're like, Oh, I want them to feel isolated from the background in the world. Like, I want to create this idea of separation visually in the story, because it goes with the story. And you're like, yeah, that sounds amazing. I don't know how to do that. But we can figure it out. But now I know why you want to do that. And right, like that is quite amazing.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:20
Got it. Now, do you have any advice on how how we're working cinema to like to be a working cinematographer in the business?

Ernesto Lomeli 1:07:29
Oh, geez, I'm still figuring out as I go.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:33
Anything you've picked up along the way as also advice for being a freelancer, which could kind of go hand in hand.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:07:40
Yeah, I mean, never burn a bridge, because you never know that pa might hire you for a job four years down the line. That's very true. Very true. And it has happened oh, it has. But that's just a rule of thumb in general in life. I mean, treat others as you would like to be treated. Be honest with your word. You know, always do your best. Because simple rules like no matter what the job is, if you agree to do the job, even if it's a quarter of your rate doesn't matter you agreed to do the job. Now other industries took this kind of way of thinking because it really pisses me off and other people don't but if I agreed to do a job whether it was for no money some money or all my all the money I usually charge, I'm gonna do the exact same quality of work.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:32
Yep, that's true because

Ernesto Lomeli 1:08:34
I committed to it and that's just it. And one of the secrets for me that I learned a long time ago is the moment I said yes, it's a job I never think of the money ever again. Because if you try to quantify like, how much you're making per hour and this gear and this and that forget my god, you're gonna you're just gonna, you're gonna you're going to start to devalue yourself. And it's just like, you know what? Cool and you just always do your best and that's it. Just always do your best if you could, if you know you could do something better do it the better way that's it.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:11
Yeah, regardless of what you're being paid, because it always I was when I interviewed Robert Forster he said something was so profound but so true, which is similar is do the best work you can no matter what you're doing, because nothing bad comes from doing the best work you can do. Yeah, because you never know someone might be watching. Someone might be looking so when I see

Ernesto Lomeli 1:09:35
I mean even just in life in general, it's just like, do your best you want so much out of life and it's like, Don't expect great things to happen when you don't put on percent into it. Amen, brother, if you always do your best and you're never gonna feel guilty for not trying hard, it easy.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:52
Aim, preach, answer preach on. So uh, so these last few questions I have for you, I ask of all of my guests. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film industry or in life? perspective? Interesting.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:10:10
Always learning to project always trying to figure out the positive things and everything you do. That's when you learn this a lot, especially in music videos.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:26
Yeah, yeah.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:10:30
This director is an idiot. Oh.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:38
The artist is drunk.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:10:41
Three more scenes to shoot. I don't promise my wife I was gonna be home for dinner and I totally not gonna make it right. Just like why am I here? Yeah, and then all of a sudden,

Alex Ferrari 1:10:54
I think we both I think we both worked with that director. Who will remain nameless

Ernesto Lomeli 1:11:02
put down this horrible rabbit Yeah, you know what? I'm here I committed I gotta do it. Let's just get it done. Let's have fun All right, you want the weird ducks angle shot of the girls but with the flare, no problem I will give you the best doctor angle but flare whatever, but shot freaking rad and all of a sudden the day is done and you're just like, oh, that wasn't so bad. No, it's it's that's that's one of the most in perspective I ever learned his perspective. His perspective is just like it's the most powerful thing that you can ever learn is projecting you know finding the good things you know, there's there's no such thing as one single truth. You know, there's it doesn't exist it's all about you the angle you're looking at it from you like

Alex Ferrari 1:11:55
you like a jet. For cinematographers. It's fascinating. But

Ernesto Lomeli 1:12:01
you know, there's always something positive and try to look at that way or else you're going to be a very miserable person.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:07
Now, you we were talking about music videos, I wanted to ask you a quick question. Do you change your perspective on how you approach a music video as opposed to how you approach a commercial

Ernesto Lomeli 1:12:17
you know, what? I learned a long time ago working with under some of these big guys, they, for them, the movies they were working on was like the real job. The commercial for them was like their, their time to just cash in fun, experiment play around they didn't really care because even if they I mean, they would still try hard, of course, but they there was no pressure. No, when you when you weren't on vacation, right? And I think a lot of times you music videos are kind of the same way for a lot of us is that. It's like, well, cool. Like, there's no agency, there's no client. I mean, there's a label, but I mean, the budgets unless you're working on a very on a decently sized music video. You know, that's one of the music videos I do are kind of, there'll be a few big ones, but then, you know, I'll do music videos most of the time for friends because it's like a favor. Yep, friends are in a band director that kind of, you know, their their best friend is in a band and they want to do a music video because they haven't done one in five years. And they just kind of want to do something arty with no stress. Right? Right. Right. And that's kind of what we do now. And it's just like, Yeah, let's go have fun. Like Yeah, cares. Like, we'll make it in the end. We're going to I'm going to make sure the girl looks really pretty regardless, the band looks awesome and hot and whatever and I'm gonna make sure you we give amazing we get at least one amazing performance pass. And then the rest of the time we're gonna have fun, but but

Alex Ferrari 1:13:46
don't forget the bud Fleur.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:13:49
It's rare. You'd be surprised.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:55
Alright, right. So what are your top three favorite films of all time?

Ernesto Lomeli 1:13:59
top three favorite films of all time,

Alex Ferrari 1:14:01
and that could be a wow, you choose Sir, your dealer's choice.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:14:10
Visually

Alex Ferrari 1:14:13
there's just so many just pick three that come to your mind that you really like.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:14:18
The Devil's backbone. Yeah, great film.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:21
Oh, yeah, it's it's beautifully shot. Oh, my direction. Oh,

Ernesto Lomeli 1:14:25
are we gorgeous? in our direction? That's what it's wardrobe just like

Alex Ferrari 1:14:31
Yeah, it's pretty top notch. No question about it. Just amazing.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:14:35
Um, and, and I'm a really big fan of magical realism and for some reason, it doesn't really exist very much in our genre anymore. I mean, it is this dude with like Chris Cunningham music videos.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:50
Oh, yeah. No, I love Chris stuff. Chris Michelle Gondry

Ernesto Lomeli 1:14:52
music videos. As far as movie goes, Pan's Labyrinth was kind of like that. Yeah, yeah, very true. I mean, pants Labyrinth is one of the is is is an amazing film. That was backbone kind of you know, it's the beginning of that trilogy. But for some odd reason a movie I've always really liked was the adventures of Baron Munchausen. Oh

Alex Ferrari 1:15:15
I love a very I love that movie. Yeah, Robin Williams things in it. Yeah,

Ernesto Lomeli 1:15:19
in and out of all of these different worlds and perspectives and it was all in the same scenario and for some reason I really gravitated towards it. I don't know why. But visually, a movie that has like haunted me forever. was done by chivo also was Lemony Snicket. Oh,

Alex Ferrari 1:15:40
that is gorgeous movie. Oh,

Ernesto Lomeli 1:15:42
I learned to light I learned to light a room and then that people interact with the room. Yeah, instead of lighting for the marks for the talent. Like, those sets are just gorgeous. And she was, you know, lit it all with these 15k saw sons 100k saw sons coming through the window, and just letting the light just play.

Alex Ferrari 1:16:07
And she was good

Ernesto Lomeli 1:16:08
while you're talking about no chivo lubezki

Alex Ferrari 1:16:11
Oh, okay, okay, David Laski. Gotcha, gotcha. Now, what is the most underrated film you've ever seen? underrated Yes. Oh, that's it. That's one of those films that no one else knows about you like why don't people love this?

Ernesto Lomeli 1:16:33
Great question. Um, there was actually a movie I saw recently. Is cafe the floor. Never heard of it. This is underrated. It's French Canadian.

Alex Ferrari 1:16:48
Okay.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:16:52
The director has gone on to do much, much more amazing big Hollywood movies. But that film was just so beautiful as this whole thing about soulmates and moving back and forth and different lives. There's kind of like Atlas cloud, or cloud out, let's

Alex Ferrari 1:17:11
call that, let's call it. That was great. I love that I actually love cloud.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:17:15
I thought that movie was fantastic.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:17
I love that I got a really bad rap. I loved it. I don't care what anyone says. I

Ernesto Lomeli 1:17:22
know I feel like Like, there's not that many movies that have to do with with these elements in life about this, like just this natural beacon like search that human beings have for one and one another. And I feel you know, we pass the buck on to these ROM coms. The truth is that, you know, all my favorite novellas and amazing novels that I've read there, you know, and it's always, you know, somebody in search of something on an amazing journey. And I feel like those films, there's not that many of them represented in film because they're very hard to, to balance between a story and all this inner dialogue that people really have.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:07
Yeah, it's absolutely right. You're absolutely right. So and So where can people find you?

Ernesto Lomeli 1:18:14
My website, Ernestolomeli.com. You'll see a bunch of commercials. I feel like I mean, I've been very lucky I work a lot, but I do the most random jobs and it's amazing. Everything from full video installation walls to VR projects to the super techie, highly visual effects commercials to you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:18:42
Music videos

Ernesto Lomeli 1:18:44
Cute little simple short films. No it's it's all it's all there

Alex Ferrari 1:18:49
And when you when you're shooting your next when you're going to shoot that feature man.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:18:53
I don't know when it when it comes to something soon that would be cool.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:57
When something comes along the way that tickles your fancy.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:19:01
I mean, as much as I would love that because everybody in the commercial land wants to do features and everybody in Patreon Of course says the grass is always greener on the other side of course i don't know i have a face something cool.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:14
All right, man. Dude, thank you so much for for sharing your knowledge and your wisdom and your experience with the the tribe here man, I really appreciate it.

Ernesto Lomeli 1:19:23
Yeah, of course anytime.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:26
Man I really love working with Ernesto. It's you know, the the projects that we've worked together on he has been an absolute pleasure. He keeps his head so mellow and so straight on the set that it can be hectic at times, if not at all times. But he's always been very, very cool. And I again, I wanted to bring a bunch of that information knowledge that I kind of pick his brain more on set, always asking them questions about the gear he's bringing out and why he's bringing it out and things like that. And I just really wanted to have him on the show. So I hope you guys got some value out of that because I I learned some stuff just listening to this interview. as well so remember guys that gear is not everything is just a paintbrush. It's all it is. It's nice, it's nice to have a really nice paintbrush. At the end of the day. It's always about story. Don't ever forget story story story. No one ever won an Oscar or won Sundance, because they shot on the nicest, coolest camera and use the best lenses. They won because there was a good story there. And if you want links to everything we talked about in this episode, head over to indiefilmhustle.com/073 to download the show notes. Now as always, head over to filmmakingpodcast.com that's filmmaking podcast calm and leave us an honest review of the show. It really helps us out a lot. Now we've also just relaunched our YouTube page, I plan to be uploading videos every week there. We're going to be doing segments, free segments of our courses, different different kinds of film, school courses, classes, tips, things like that, as well as all of our podcasts will be available on YouTube as well. It's free to subscribe, so just head over to indiefilmhustle.com/YouTube. And if you want to be part of the indie film hustle tribe, don't forget to go and sign up for our free Facebook group where you can connect with other filmmakers from around the world. Ask questions have direct contact with me, and get first dibs at all of our new great content that we're creating at indie film hustle. So just head over to indiefilmhustle.com/Facebook and sign up. I hope to see you there. So as always keep that hustle going keep that dream alive. And I'll talk to you soon.

YOUTUBE VIDEO

LINKS

SPONSORS

  1. Bulletproof Script Coverage – Get Your Screenplay Read by Hollywood Professionals
  2. AudibleGet a Free Filmmaking or Screenwriting Audiobook
  3. Rev.com – $1.25 Closed Captions for Indie Filmmakers – Rev ($10 Off Your First Order)

IFH 064: No One Gives a $#*% What You Shoot Your Film On!

OK, so before I get bombarded with hate email please hear me out. I was speaking to my filmmaker inner circle the other day and the topic of format and camera came up. I’m a huge tech-head. I love gear as much as the next filmmaker.

Hell, you can’t make movies without gear. Advances in filmmaking technology have liberated a generation of storytellers, filmmakers, and content creators. Now does the audience give a CRAP about what camera you used to make your movie…NO!

If you want to know what it really takes to be a successful filmmaker in today’s world take a listen to this short podcast.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:00
So guys Today's episode is a one that might cause a little bit of controversy but you know what something I was talking to a few of my buddies about the other day and I was like you know what I got to talk about this because you know I fell into this trap as well early on in my career. You know, a lot of people get so caught up in what they shoot their movie on like I shot this on the red epic I shot this on the weapon I shot this on the Alexa I shot this, you know, you go all the way up to the top level of the highest end cameras and then you go all the way to the bottom. So like I shot this on my iPhone, I shot this on VHS, I shot this on whatever. And that might have worked 10 to 12 years ago, 15 years ago, like when I did my film broken, I shot it on mini DV at the time mini DV tape. At the time, there wasn't a lot of movies being shot on mini DV but I remember there was another movie with Katie Holmes called pieces of April that was shot on the Canon XL as well as 28 days Danny Boyle shot it on the Canon x Oh again mini the mini DV tape. And that was kind of a marketing thing back then. You know now currently with tangerine that was shot on the iPhone. That's a little bit of a marketing campaign, a little bit of a marketing thing too. But at the end of the day, guys, no one gives a crap the reason why people care about tangerine is because it's a good movie that people care about it. It's a good story. People don't care about what you shot on. It's not it's not impressive anymore. You know before it was like I shot this on 35 millimeter and that was a big deal. But nowadays no one cares if you shoot this on the weapon or the epic of the shot 7k or 5k or any of that crap it's all fluff it's all bs it's about story guys. It's all about story. So please stop. You know marketing your film by using like, I shot this on the red epic I shot this 5k I shot this on the Alexa or I shot this on an iPhone or I shot this on a VHS tape or anything like that. You know what, at the end of the day, that's all nice and dandy, but has to be a good movie. No one really cared about, you know, it's like the olden days. Like when Robert Rodriguez came out with El Mariachi, a $7,000 feature film, he was the first guy to do that he was the first guy to come out and said he made a movie for $7,000 By the way, I'm gonna want to talk a second about that $7,000 the movie you and I saw on DVD or in the theater or Blu Ray, that movie does not cost $7,000 that movie cost probably about 1.5 to $2 million when they had to redo everything. So that's something else. It's called marketing for a reason they'd like Oh, it was made for $7,000 Yeah, he made it for $7,000. But the version we saw was not the $7,000 version. It was a 1.1 million or 1.5 million or however much they spent but I know they spent over a million dollars on it because they had to redo the audio tracks completely that to remaster everything because he shot it all on on 16 millimeter film had to transfer to three quarter inch tape. For any of you guys who don't know what three quarter inch tape is Google it. It is an old technology, very old technology. And he edited tape to tape back in the day. There's no way in hell that that master tape that he made for $7,000 was transferred onto a film onto a film stock and then projected in theaters. Transfer DVDs and all the other formats that they eventually transferred on. So back in the day you could say like I made this movie for $7,000 and I did it with broken I marketed as a movie that I made for $8,000 and it was very impressive back then you know with 100 100, visual effects shots and so on and so forth. today's world is not that world anymore guys it's not something that anyone cares about. No one cares that you made this movie for five bucks because there aren't being their movies being made for five bucks every day 10 bucks every day you know so you're either going to be the cheapest movie ever made which now everyone can make the cheapest movie ever made because anyone could just grab an iPhone and go make a movie. Or your the most expensive movie ever made you know 100 million $200 million $300 million. So guys, no one cares what format you shot on. No one cares what your budget is. No one cares how much struggle you went through or that you jumped off a window to get this shot or not. No one cares. No one cares about the struggles it took you to get to where you are in making your movie that only goes so far. If the movie sucks no one cares you know they only start caring if the movies really really good. And then it just adds to the the the flavor if you will of the movie and the whole story behind it. Like the Reverend the Reverend story. You know, it was such a huge moment that I mean a lot of people say that the making of the movie is more interesting than the movie itself. I would argue to say yes, I agree with that. But the only reason people even cared about all this craziness is because the movie was good. Same thing with Apocalypse Now took three years to frickin make that he almost and Francis Robocop almost shot himself. People only care about that because it's good. You know, what was also a horrible experience to make a movie Heaven's Gate. If you guys ever have ever seen a movie called Heaven's gates, one of the worst bombs of all time, no one cares how hard is that that movie was to make because it wasn't it didn't do well no one cared, it's not that great of a film. That's why people don't care about it. You know what they care about? They want a good story they want to see if you can tell a good story they want to see if you have not only can you tell a good story, which I think is the most important thing production quality can go away you know audio try to keep audios as best you can guys but visual quality can go away as long as you've got a good story if you got a good story that is compelling and people can you can see the people on the screen and you can hear them clearly. And it's not like super polished or super anything that's what people want man that's what people really are attracted to. They want good stories we have such a lack of good storytellers out there now all we have is people just you know so obsessed with the pixels and the cameras and all these other things that they try to throw so many smoke and mirrors up and believe me I know about smoke and mirrors because I've done it with a lot of my projects you know you create smoke and mirrors but at the end of the day it has to be story has to touch somebody in one way shape or form. And that's what's the most important thing guys, so you know, I have nothing against gear I have nothing against, you know, analyzing your tools and seeing which tool works best for you. But don't obsess about it. Just worry about story. You know, I just discovered and I just did an article about this director who has blown my mind and his name is Joe Swanberg. Swanberg, Joe Swanberg has made over 20 feature films in 10 years and one year he made six feature films, all very low budget. He comes from the mumble core movement. If you don't know what the mumble core movement is, of independent film, definitely just Google and you'll understand what it is. You know, they started basically him and Mark duplass and all those guys, they started making movies back in the early 2000s. With no money literally like 50 bucks. 100 bucks. They just grabbed the camera, whichever camera they had, and they went shot a movie with their friends. Audio sucked visual sucked, but they took it they told good stories. You know, Mark duplessis movie the puffy chair was a big huge mumble core fan Lena Dunham from girls HBO girl started out this way. They just want to grab the camera and start telling stories. And Joe Swanberg I just started getting into his work and I've been blown away by how he's been able to do what he does. And if you guys have not checked out the article I wrote I'm going to put a link of it in the show notes at indie film hustle.com forward slash zero 64 I'll put a link up Joe, the the keynote dress that Joe did at this year's South by Southwest and he breaks down everything about his how much money he makes, both the financials are about his movies, how he makes those movies for five grand or 10 grand or 20 grand or so on, you know, and he just finished making a movie his biggest movie ever which was half a million and then he went straight back down after half a million he did another movie for like 50 grand with Anna Kendrick, Olivia while jack London and Ron Livingston called drinking buddies. And you know I've just been blown away has how prolific he has been. And he's basically the the embodiment What this whole podcast is about, go out and tell a story that's important to you, that you feel like you really can do something with, okay? Don't allow technology to get in your way. Don't allow other people to give you permission to go make a movie, you can do this on your own, you can grab a camera, you can grab your iPhone, just make sure you work on that story, you make sure that you work on something that is important to you. And that you can tell well, and that's going to be more important than any camera you use. because trust me, I've worked on a lot of projects in my life, and through my post production company, and I've had things shot 5k 6k 4k on the biggest, you know, biggest budgets ever. And a lot of times they suck, I'm sorry to tell you and some of the most humble movies I've worked on because of budget shot on the DSLR shot on a seven D shot on a small camera, even an iPhone have blown me away because of the passion, the love the the energy behind the story that they're trying to tell the belief of what they're trying to do. So that's where you guys have to be alright, don't get caught up with the gear gear is great. We love gear. Without gear, we can't make our movies. And obviously the bigger the camera the more fun you can gather with it, the better the images great, but just learn how to tell a story. And I'm going to just end this podcast with a great quote by the amazing john Cassavetes film is to me, just unimportant. People are very important. So don't forget that guys, when you're making your movies, it's not about the gear. It's not about the format. It's not about how much you spent it's not about the struggle you go through. We all go through struggles to make our projects we all go through struggles to make our art to make our films no one cares about that. They only care about one thing can you tell a story. Now guys i hope i wasn't too rough with you on on this episode. But I really care about what you guys are doing out there. And if I can inspire you to tell better stories in one way shape or form that's why I'm here that's what we're trying to do at any film hustle to help you guys out so good luck with all your projects keep going for and right. Again if you want to get those links to Joe Swanberg keynote, which is a must listen to as well as the mark do plus keynote about how to make a movie for 1000 bucks. I'm gonna put both links in the show description in the show notes at indie film, hustle calm for slash zero 64. And as always, guys, please head over to filmmaking podcast calm and leave us a great review for the podcast. It really helps us out a lot. And I really want to get the word out on indie film hustle, and what we're trying to do help as many filmmakers out as possible so and share guys share everything we post as much as you can. If you like what we're doing, please share it and on your social media. Email, however, get the word out on what we're trying to do guys, because we're really trying to help as many people, as many filmmakers as we can. So thanks again. As always, keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive and I'll talk to you soon.

YOUTUBE VIDEO

LINKS

SPONSORS

  1. Bulletproof Script Coverage – Get Your Screenplay Read by Hollywood Professionals
  2. AudibleGet a Free Filmmaking or Screenwriting Audiobook
  3. Rev.com – $1.25 Closed Captions for Indie Filmmakers – Rev ($10 Off Your First Order)

IFH 028: How Quentin Tarantino is Keeping Film Alive with The Hateful Eight

Ah, the good ol’ digital vs film debate. Well, you won’t get any of that in the article or podcast. With Quentin Tarantino’s The Hateful Eight coming out Dec 25, 2015, and it is shot on “Glorious 70mm,” there has been a lot of chatter about film again.

With filmmakers like Christopher Nolan shooting 35mm and IMAX on his latest film and JJ Abrams shooting Star Wars: The Force Awakens in 35 mm, film seems to still be an art form that many filmmakers are not ready to let go of just yet.

What Quentin Tarantino has done with The Hateful Eight is unique. He has brought back to life the Ultra Panavision 70 technique along with anamorphic 65mm lenses that haven’t been seen since the ’60s.

Here are some specs:

  • Camera: Panavision 65 HR Camera and Panavision Panaflex System 65 Studio
  • Lenses: Panavision APO Panatar
  • Film Stock 65mm: Kodak Vision3 200T 5213, Vision3 500T 5219
  • Aspect Ratio: 2.75:1

Quentin Tarantino has some very strong opinions about shooting digital.

“Part of the reason I’m feeling [like retiring] is, I can’t stand all this digital stuff. This is not what I signed up for,” he said.

“Even the fact that digital presentation is the way it is right now – I mean, it’s television in public, it’s just television in public. That’s how I feel about it. I came into this for film.”

He continued:

“I hate that stuff. I shoot film. But to me, even digital projection is – it’s over, as far as I’m concerned. It’s over.”

“If I’m gonna do TV in public, I’d rather just write one of my big scripts and do it as a miniseries for HBO, and then I don’t have the time pressure that I’m always under, and I get to actually use all the script,” he explained.

“I always write these huge scripts that I have to kind of – my scripts aren’t like blueprints. They’re not novels, but they’re novels written with script format. And so I’m adapting the script into a movie every day.”

This is what he said he’d do if he would write another huge epic.

“The one movie that I was actually able to use everything – where you actually have the entire breadth of what I spent a year writing – was the two Kill Bill movies because it’s two movies. So if I’m gonna do another big epic thing again, it’ll probably be like a 6-hour miniseries or something.”

The Hateful Eight will be getting a nation-wide release in Ultra Panavision 70, which means it’ll be the first fiction feature film screened in anamorphic 70mm with a single-projector Cinerama system since Khartoum in 1966.

Watch Quentin Tarantino, director of photography Bob Richardson and Panavision explain how they brought Ultra Panavision 70, back to life in The Hateful Eight.

A Christmas Eve Conversation With Quentin Tarantino & Paul Thomas Anderson on 70mm Film

Quentin: I didn’t realize how much of a lost cause [35mm] was. At the same time I didn’t realize to the same extent 70mm would be a drawing point. Not just to me and other film geeks. There is no intelligent argument to be had that puts digital in front of [70mm]. It actually might be film’s saving grace. Film’s last stand. Film’s last night in the arena — and actually conquer.

Check out this amazing documentary SIDE BY SIDE, produced by Keanu Reeves, takes an in-depth look at this revolution.

Through interviews with directors, cinematographers, film students, producers, technologists, editors, and exhibitors, SIDE BY SIDE examines all aspects of filmmaking — from capture to edit, visual effects to color correction, distribution to archive.

At this moment when digital and photochemical filmmaking coexist, SIDE BY SIDE explores what has been gained, what is lost, and what the future might bring.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:52
So today, guys, with The Hateful Eight coming out in a few weeks. And all in quitting, like being quitting Tarantino being so adamant about shooting film and shooting film shooting film, and he actually is brought back an amazing format, basically 70 millimeter, ultra panavision hasn't been used since the 60s. And he's been able to bring back this, this beautiful format for Hateful Eight. And he's doing a roadshow around the country. So for people who want to see it in film in this massive format, they can see it in that format. So I wanted to talk a little bit about the differences between film and digital. And this has been debated to death. So I'm not going to do that. But for a lot of people who are not familiar with actually shooting film and the differences. I just wanted to kind of to kind of shed a little light on this. But before we do, I want you to hear what Quentin Tarantino himself has to say about the process.

Interviewer 1:53
And you're you're not too sure about the digital era Are you in terms of as opposed to the old day of going to the cinema? And yet no, I'm widescreen as on the digital era.

Quentin Tarantino 2:05
At least it does nothing for me. It does nothing for me. I mean, I actually think I'm getting gypped when I go to a movie and I realize it's either been shot on digital or being projected in digital. Um, I mean some people feel differently about this but I think it's the death kill I think it's the death rattle and you know, it's Yeah, I do. And I also have even another whole aspect about it, you know, I've always believed in the magic of movies. Yeah, and to me, the magic movies is connected to 35 millimeter because everyone thinks you can't help but think that when you're filming something on film, that you're recording movement, you're not recording movement, you're just taking a series of still pictures, there's no movement in movies at all they are still pictures but when shown at 24 frames a second through a light bulb it creates the illusion of movement so thus as opposed to recording device when you're watching a movie or film print you are watching an illusion and to me that illusion is connected to the magic of movies.

Alex Ferrari 3:09
Now that was a that was quitting from a press conference he did a few years back when he was asked about that about digital versus film now I'm a guy who shot a lot of film in my day my demo reel was shot on 35 millimeter I've shot eight millimeter 16 millimeter in film school I've learned 16 millimeter and N 35 millimeter so you know I I changed the bag change the film in the bag I you know did I did the whole the whole gambit on film. And I you know I love film I think film is a wonderful medium and I don't think film should die I think film should always be an option for filmmakers because it does have something very unique something very specific about it. Now with that said though when you're shooting I've done I've now come over to the other side and I've now shot a ton more digital than I've ever shot film and it has opened up my ability to tell stories and be able to shoot more and be able to do more post production because of the new digital technology you know when shooting film it's it's you know you've got that whole mystery of like oh maybe I'll maybe I'll maybe I got it in the shot or not. I don't know maybe we'll see when we get back from dailies and all this kind of stuff. That's great and I but I was used to frustrate me videos. This was the only thing I had at the time and even then you really don't know what did the film actually actually look like until you get into the into the into the lab. And just so you know when I shot my my demo reel, I actually sent up all my footage to a lab up in New York. I'll do art and do art, their machine broke while I was developing my film, and I lost my entire production. I lost all of it. That was 1000s of dollars that I lost and they were very nice. They gave me free development and free film and but I didn't really pay for the production. But I did what you know, it was all it is but those are things that happen just like you would you know lose a hard drive nowadays, but to get back to what Quentin Tarantino was doing now with The Hateful Eight, the video that's attached to the show notes of this of this episode, he does this entire like they will basically a 10 minute explanation of what they're doing with how they went back to find the camera and the lenses that were sitting in a corner somewhere and they had to go do tests and stuff but the magic that he's going to be able to capture with that and we'll all see on Christmas day when it comes out how it's going to look and what it's going to be like but you know, I think there needs to be champions like guarantee No, and by the way, Tarantino is not the only director doing this. Christopher Nolan JJ Abrams shot the new Star Wars all on 35 millimeter. Wes Anderson, Paul Thomas Anderson, Darren Aronofsky shot the wrestler on 16 millimeter. There's a lot of directors holding on to film because it is a viable it's a viable shooting format, especially at the at the studio level where they can afford the costs to create, you know, the workflow for that maybe at the independent level is much more difficult. But with that said in a few weeks, I'm going to have probably in a month or two, I'm going to have a guest on I just did the pot I just did the interview last week with her name is Kansas bowling. She's 19 now but she was 17 when she made her first feature film and she shot a completely on 16 millimeter. And all she does is shoot film she won't shoot digitally. She doesn't like the way it looks. She wants to shoot film and wants to keep that format alive because she's a when you hear her she's kind of like a female mini Quentin Tarantino she knows so much about this her genre film from the olden days that it's she could just tell that she has a love for film just like Tarantino does. It's something that I hope stays around for a long time I think we're losing more and more of the artists and the technicians who understand film who know film because they're not teaching in schools anymore it's becoming kind of like a lost art in a lot of ways is you know old all the older dogs like myself and guys a head of me who've been working with film all there's light like my my friend Suki who was on episode nine, we were talking that he The reason one of the reasons he got on to American Horror Story was because he shoots film, he knows how to shoot film, he shot a lots of film, and he is actually you know, that film, the whole show is shot on film. And the things that they're able to do with that because they shoot film and to be able to do in camera tricks and things in development, things that you can't do digitally and not able to do digitally. Now a lot of people say the warmth and the different vibe and the just the psychological they all this is great. You know it's the same conversation I was in school this digital analog debate was going on for music, like oh, vinyl or digital. But now everything you know now, vinyls coming back up, because everyone's like, Wow, it sounds so much better. I'm not sure if that's going to be the way it is with digital in the future. I really don't i don't see that happening anytime. I think like just like vinyl and and mp3 they live together. The digital world is much larger than the vinyl world but the vinyl world starting to come up and there are people who are interested in seeing that and watching that. So I think film is going to become that kind of niche within the film industry. So for those of you who have never shot film, I wanted to kind of take you through the process really quickly. So you shoot 35 millimeter you go out and get your stock of film, that stock of film will be dependent on the amount of light you want to expose in the film. So a lower aasa like a 50 or 100 would be for outside stuff that there's a lot of light so it's you can it absorbs it absorb it needs a lot of light to be able to get a good exposure, but it's very fine. So if you have a lot of light outside and you shoot with that kind of format, you're going to be a nice clean grainless image kind of you know getting closer to the digital side of it. Now, if you go higher like to the eight hundreds or I think even to 1000 I forgot where they actually ended up stopping doing that, then you could shoot in low light. Now the legendary Stanley Kubrick shot Barry Lyndon some scenes in Barry Lyndon with a some lenses that he got from NASA on a very as advanced of a film stock as they had at the time nowadays. Or nowadays they have film stock that was very, very fast and can absorb a lot of light, but back then they didn't. So that's kind of what you're dealing with with film stock is because there's so now you get the film, you get a camera let's say you're going to shoot it on air, your pan of vision, you load the camera up huge and you only have 10 minute rolls. That's it. You only got 10 minutes per roll to shoot what you got to do. That's why the long takes of yesteryear only lasted around 10 minutes. That's why Alfred Hitchcock's rope was basically nine long takes edited together very Very interestingly and very cleverly, to hide the edits. But there until digital came along, there was no ability to make long take film, or long take shots past 10 minutes. So once you shoot at 10 minutes, you sync it up with audio later on, because you can record audio directly into the camera, but you can sync it up. So once you have it, and by the way, when you're on set, you have to have a guy on set with a bag to be able to change the mag, the mag can't see any light film can't see any light because if it sees light, it ruins it. So you have to put it in a black bag or into a tent, go in there, change the film out blind, because you can't do it unless you're in a dark room which onset you generally aren't. You've got to do it blindly. So you have to learn how to do this blindly. As I'm telling you this, it sounds crazy. But I remember doing this in school. So you go in there you have to feel things around, you got to change the mag, make sure it's all tight, get it out, tape it up. All this stuff has to be done just to be able to get the image. So let's say we've shot the whole film now we've done everything perfectly. Now you send it off to the lab, the lab will develop it then after the lab develops it you would take it over to a telephony suite now the olden days you would be able to edit on film, take take the negative and edit it and make a print of it and then edit it and then someone will go back and edit off of edge codes. Each film. All the film stocks have different edge codes inside of it. So they literally would go by I edge it out. Funny is when I went to film school, they actually taught us backwards they taught us nonlinear editing, than online editing, then Film Editing and when I literally went to film and I was cutting I'm like I looked at the teacher. I'm like you want me to cut this with a razor blade? And then tape it together with with tape. What are we the Flintstones this is this is crazy. This is barbaric? Because I didn't understand and it is even for someone who's never understood never seen anything like that it does it did look barbaric, even for me back then. So can you imagine what you know someone who's never even seen a film camera or shot film or edited film would look at it going You got to be kidding me. So it was a very slow process doing that. And by the way, the reason why in all your editing systems, it's called the bin is because they actually hung films in film takes in bins, like literally hang them physically. And they would be called film bin. So that's when avid and everybody else came out. They all call it bins because they're all still trying to go back to that use that old terminology. So let's say we're not going to edit and film. Let's say we're going to do it a digital a digital way that the current way. So you would shoot it, you would bring it back to a telephony, they would scan it all in digitally. At that point, you have it all digital and it's going to stay digital and then now you can do all your working workflow visual effects, everything you want to do all digitally no problem at all. When you're all done, you've color graded digitally. You get it all done, you're out the door, bam, bam, boom, you're good. When I did my demo reel, I actually took the negative I had to actually color grade all the raw footage, then transfer all that raw footage, color graded onto a tape beta SP or Digi beta tape and then go off and digitize that into an avid and then edit it together to get my final piece. So there's a few different workflows but as you can see, film is much more convoluted and currently much more expensive because a lot of the infrastructure that was in place is now no longer there. So when there was 1015 Labs in LA, I think there's one or two now in LA that can do this this kind of work anymore so I hope this kind of gives you a little bit of an understanding of what the workflow is I'm no expert by any stretch I'm definitely not you know the old pro that's been shooting film for years and decades or anything like that this is my experience with it. And I kind of glossed over it there's a lot more detail involved with it, but it is a lot more convoluted and it is a lot more time consuming to do to do this once you by the way once you shoot the film, you won't know what to do you would send the dailies out to the lab the lab would develop it and then send it back to you and then you would at lunch on the film set at lunch go and watch your dailies with the producer and see what you had for the day before so now you have an instantly now you can literally just watch it on the monitor rewind it right then and there and you'll know what you've got or you didn't get instantly so with that digital is obviously one of the many things is wonderful about digital filmmaking. But that gives you kind of a quick overview of what it was like shooting film I know for the for the younger guys in the audience. It sounds like we were crazy. But you know what? They've been doing films like that for over 100 years doing it like that. So it's only within the last two I mean, honestly it's basically Episode Two of Star Wars Episode of Star Wars Episode Two was I think one of the first films shot completely digitally. So you know it's it hasn't been that long that we've been doing digital but it's been growing so fast, and now it's completely dominates the market. So just wanted to guys give you a little bit of an idea for anybody in the audience who doesn't had never experienced shooting film before. What Quinn's doing is remarkable, I'm very I applaud him for fighting so hard to get the to get film in the spotlight again, I think because he's doing this with, with The Hateful Eight that it started the conversation over again, if you guys get a chance, you have to watch a documentary called side by side, who was directed by Keanu Reeves. And he goes around and interviews the top directors in the world talking about this specific reason like film or digital film, or digital film or digital and he it's a fantastic documentary, I'll leave, I'll leave a link for it in the show notes. It really, really is worth your time to watch it. If you are interested in this. If you guys ever do get a chance to shoot film, and you have that opportunity, whether it's like shooting eight millimeter, super eight millimeter, just to have that experience is so much fun. And it's so enlightening as a filmmaker to be able to shoot on film, because you guys call yourself filmmakers, you should actually one day shoot film, it's it's always a wonderful thing. And if you want to shoot super eight separate, if you go to Super eight sound, I think it's super eight sound calm, I'll live I'll put it in the show notes. They have an entire ecosystem of cameras, you can rent or buy the film packages already done. And they'll actually you can also do post production with them as far as transferring it through telephony. Now in my day, I've been in a lot of telephony sessions where you actually sit down you put the put the roll of film up and you run it in you put it in digitally and scan it in and that the times I did a day, we didn't even scan it in there was no scanning in at the time, it was more just transferring it to a beta SP or Digi beta. And now they would transfer it to an hdslr or something like that. But now they would actually scan it in digitally. You don't even have to go to tape, of course. So bottom line is guys, I think film. If you haven't had a chance to experience film experience it it is a magical thing. If I had a chance to shoot film again, I probably would. But it really would depend on the film and the project, I really have gotten used to the digital workflow. I love the images that come out of digital cameras, the red, the airy, the black magic, they're just absolutely stunning images and the freedom that you get to do with playing with it. That's why, you know, amazing directors like David Fincher have adopted Steven Soderbergh adopted it so quickly. And they just love the freedom that you have and the instantaneous, instantaneous ability to just see what you've got rewind it, look at it and go, okay, rewind it, listen to me and see what you've got, and be able to adjust on time onset, right at the moment. It's wonderful. So digital has its place, there's no question about it. And there's no question that digital will be the future. You know, there it is, the future it is now it is what it is. It's it's going to be here for a long, long time. But we should not abandon film. And that is my main point here. And I think that's the main point of Christopher Nolan, JJ Abrams, Tarantino and so forth, about why it is so important to keep that heritage and keep that ability to do things on film alive. So by the way, right now, as of this date in 2015 film is still the only way to archive motion pictures over the course of 50 years, 100 years, there are no hard drives that can do it yet. Solid State hard drives are still up in the air, they don't know how long they're gonna last because they're still fairly new technology. So film celluloid is the only way to archive film unknown way the archive film properly. Now you can in 100 years, 150 years, you can still bust it out, put it on, throw some light through a projector and be able to get an image. And that's something digital has not caught up with yet. So before you start ragging too heavily on film, all your favorite movies are still being archived on film celluloid, because it is the only option out there. But I hope you guys if you guys ever do get a chance to shoot film, please do so it is a magical magical experience. So please don't forget to head over to filmmaking podcast, calm filmmaking podcast.com and leave us an honest review on iTunes. It helps us out a lot and helps the show out a lot too. And if you're interested in any of the things I've talked about in the show, head over to get the show notes at indie film hustle calm forward slash zero 28 there's links video clips, all of that stuff is in the show notes so thank you guys again for listening. And guys do me a favor if you actually see Hateful Eight in 70 millimeter or on film or film prints of it. Let me know what you guys think I'm dying to hear what you guys really feel and what emotions you felt when you watched it was it crappy was like oh my god, the Image flickering all this kind of stuff. Leave it in the comments in the show notes, leaving in the comments or drop me a line on Facebook or on our own indie film hustle. And let me know what you think. So keep that dream alive. Keep that hustle going, and I'll talk to you guys soon.

YOUTUBE VIDEO

LINKS

SPONSORS

  1. Bulletproof Script Coverage – Get Your Screenplay Read by Hollywood Professionals
  2. AudibleGet a Free Filmmaking or Screenwriting Audiobook
  3. Rev.com – $1.25 Closed Captions for Indie Filmmakers – Rev ($10 Off Your First Order)

IFH 020: Why Indie Filmmakers Should NOT Shoot with a 4K Camera!

(Unless you can handle the workflow)

Now I’m not talking about the compress 4k files you get from a DSLR or GoPro. I’m speaking about the big, chunky files you get when shooting 4k ProRes or RAW on a RED Camera, Blackmagic URSA Mini or Arri ALEXA.

An issue I see come up again, and again is indie filmmakers shooting a format that they can’t handle in production, post-production or in delivery (like 4k, 5k, 6k or 8k). Currently, the big buzzword is UHD (Ultra High Definition).

 Digital_video_resolutions_(VCD_to_4K).svg

Technically, “Ultra High Definition” is actually a derivation of the 4K digital cinema standard. However while your local multiplex shows images in native 4096 x 2160 4K resolution, the new Ultra HD consumer format has a slightly lower resolution of 3840 X 2160.

Now while having a larger image to play with is better it does bring a ton of baggage along with it. RED Cameras started popularizing 4K cameras with its first camera the RED ONE. It was so far beyond anything else on the market at the time that it ignited the imagination of indie filmmakers everywhere.

Now shooting 4K in today’s world is a bit different. It cost much more than you’d expect once you factor in all the things you’ll be dealing with down the pipeline.

More Hard Drives

Your budget will be stretched since you’ll need more hard drive space to house and back up the larger files. Also, transfer times will take longer because of the larger 4K file sizes. Your onset DIT (Digital Imagining Technician) will need to have large and fast hard drives to push the extra gigs of info.

On those films with really small budgets, every minute you have on set is precious. If you only have two solid-state capture cards and two back up hard drives to transfer them too, then you might be waiting to shoot. You might shoot through a card faster than a DIT can download, check it and transfer it to your back up drive.

I’ve seen this situation play out a ton of times on set and trust me it’s not fun to be that poor DIT when the entire set is waiting for him.

4K Post Production

I did a podcast a few weeks ago on Post Production Workflow (Post Production Workflow: Understand it or Die!). The episode breaks down the craziness of not understand the entire workflow from camera to deliverables.

Distribution is not there…yet

As of now, 4K is not a mandatory deliverable for distributors. Netflix, Hulu Plus, or Amazon Prime are not ready to stream 4K. The internet pipe is just not there…yet. Yes, Netflix has a 4K option but the need for 4k as the standard is not there yet.

I just sold my film, This is Meg,  to Hulu who only asked for 1080p. I handled all the deliverables for a $10 million+ Hulu series and they only wanted 1080p.

Mastering in 4K is really expensive and time-consuming. If you are doing visual effects than you VFX guys are going to hate you and it will cost you more money. Dealing with 4K plates is what $150 million films deal with and they have the budget to do so. A smaller budget indie film doesn’t have the resources to deal with any issues that might come up working at 4K instead of HD or 2K.

Also, when you color grade 4K footage it will cost you more money. Again processing, pushing and rendering that larger format kills your budget. Would you rather have more time to color your film at 2k or rush it to master in 4K?

But I need 4K for my theatrical DCP

Again another myth. Mostly ALL theatrical releases are in 2K DCP. Why you may ask because movie theater chains do not want to upgrade to pricey 4K projectors when the 2K looks fine.

I mastered my film on at 1080p, then did a small blow up on to 2K for my DCP. When I saw it projected I was blown away how good it looked. Check out the trailer for This is Meg below.

On the Corner of Ego and Desire

I shot my second film On the Corner of Ego and Desire on the BMPCC 1080p. I screened it at the Chinese Theater in Hollywood and it looked amazing. It world premiered at the Raindance Film Festival in the UK. Watch the film here: On the Corner of Ego and Desire on IFHTV

 I love 4K…really!

Listen I’m not a 4K hater by any means. Hell, I’d shot all my films in 20K if that was possible. I’ve always shoot 4K on my projects. You can recompose shots in post-production, more color space, etc. It’s great but I also have the budgets and hardware to deal with that workflow. This is sound advice for all aspects of the filmmaking process, do what you can within your means and do it well.

Don’t try to make Avatar right out of the gate. James Cameron started on Piranha 2: The Spawning and built his way up over time. He made the best movies he could with what he had access to at the time.

The new RED Weapon camera has been a problem to deal with for many indie filmmakers. The RED Weapon shoots 4K, 5K, and 6K and has extremely large files to deal with. If you don’t have a RED Rocket X card (cost: $6750 + Warranty $395) that helps you process the footage, you are out of luck in post-production.

It will take you weeks, depending on your system, to attempt to transcode all that footage. Editing in RED RAW will be out of the question.

I’m just saying shoot a format that is within your capabilities. Don’t make your filmmaking process more difficult than it has to be. In this episode, I go over a ton of info on why you shouldn’t shoot 4K if you’re an indie filmmaker.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:00
Now guys, this episode is something I've been wanting to bring to you guys for a while, the whole concept of the camera porn as they call it, people being so caught up with like, I'm shooting 4k, I'm shooting 6k I'm shooting, I'm shooting with the area Lexa this conveyed this range and this aspect ratio and this size of file and it's kind of like you know, I'm going to shoot with the red weapon and because I shoot with the red weapon or shoot 6k it's gonna make my movie better, you know? And No, it doesn't. It's about story. And it's always about story. So I wanted to kind of go over a few things. What are some reasons why you shouldn't if you're an indie filmmaker, you have to understand there's a lot of things like whenever I shoot anything, I always shoot at a high resolution as high as I can get that I can handle. So, but I also have a post house. So there's a big difference, it is within my capabilities to shoot 4k or shoot 6k I have the hard drives, I have the horsepower to push that kind of stuff. where people get caught up, or filmmakers get kind of in trouble is when they they get that they get that they get that red epic or red weapon or God knows whatever the camera has 15k or whatever that is at the moment. And then they have no understanding of how to work through it. And I did this episode a little bit ago on post production workflow, which is, is B actually the most popular episode of the entire series of indie film hustle. So that told me a lot that people are really, really interested in understanding this kind of stuff that I guess nobody's really talking about. So I wanted to bring to you guys the reasons why you should not shoot 4k. If you're an indie filmmaker. First and foremost, nobody can really tell the difference. Even if you shoot 4k, no one's going to be able to see the 4k, unless you're at a very specific distance that you can actually appreciate 4k. But most people are not, you're not going to see the difference. Honestly, and I deal with this kind of stuff all the time. And my post production company, and a lot of things are being eventually going to end up on an iPhone or an iPad or a computer screen. So really, it's almost a waste shooting at 4k. Now, with that said, there is advantages of shooting at a higher resolution or higher aspect ratio like a 4k or 6k, your ability to be able to zoom in recompose shots, things like that, again, all wonderful things as long as you have the capabilities of handling it. Now it will second thing it will stretch your budget and take a ton more time to deal with these bigger files, these raw files these 4k or 6k files. It's like shooting on the Blackmagic and your shooting progress. Are you going to shoot RAW? Well, raw is a beast to deal with, especially the Blackmagic raw codec is not that great read is actually the best codec I've ever seen. Meaning that the size of the frame, let's say the size of the image. And the size of file is like it's very manageable in that in that ratio, but still shooting at 4k shooting at 6k or higher, it's going to stretch your budget because you're going to need more hard drives, you're going to have to copy it and you know back it up more and more. So it's going to need it's going to also take a lot more time to transfer these larger files. And again, for what that's the question you have to ask yourself, what is this doing for my film? Is it just ego? Am I just wanting to to say hey, I shot this at 4k, you know, 2k is a phenomenal format for an independent filmmaker. It's wonderful like that is what was being you know all the movies from five years ago and back probably were all being mastered at 2k most movies are still being mastered a to k. But if you're going to transfer to film or do a DCP every instrument to K is perfectly fine. It is wonderful and affordable. And you can do something with it. You know, I've actually had a theatrical movie that I worked on that we shot that was measured in 1080 P and then we went and blew it up to 2k for 400 screen release by a major studio. And it looked great. And we shot and we and we did it on DCP and we upload and we put it onto film and believe it or not I was editing I was coloring this going back a little bit I was coloring in apples color. So it wasn't even like the highest end coloring system at the time. Believe it or not Something something collared a shot on a red and they shot it a 4k, we were able to handle the workflow. But we edited and mastered everything at 1080 p because they could not afford the mastering process to go to 4k, there was just no, there was so many zoom ins and things like that, that it just didn't make any sense to do it. So they mastered a 2k. And then we colored in color, and then I'll put it to film, and to DCP digital cinema package for people who don't understand that is the digital package that movie theaters want or need in order to project digitally, at any standard movie theater or throughout the country. So all of that was being all of that was done with a 2k master. Don't underestimate the power of 2k. Please and it's just it's something I see so many filmmakers like I just got a film guy shot a little while ago, we had a film coming through the doors that was shot on the the weapon, reds weapon that was shot 6k. And they could barely even do anything with it. Like they could barely move it they were able to like the editor who was editing it was like, What do we do? This is too much and and again, it goes back to workflow. And they were like we were thinking of mastering at six can like are you absolutely mad, you can't master at 6k. Now you can't even master at 4k. Now the other reason why you wouldn't want to master at 4k and mastering at 4k is in my opinion, at this point in 2015 is ludicrous. It's you don't need to, you can great, fantastic. But you don't need to. And I know a lot of people are going to talk about future proofing. Oh, you know, 4k monitors and 6k monitors coming out in the future. Great. That's wonderful. Do you know how much how much material movies media that is in the marketplace right now from the past 100 years, that is not at 2k or 4k levels. You know, seriously, there is tons and tons of stuff. So the whole excuse of future proofing again, if you can't afford it. And if you have the horsepower to do it, by all means knock yourself out. But most independent filmmakers are not made of money. And most independent filmmakers don't have the resources to be able to push 4k in a mastering format or even in an editing, editing up editing process. So the other reason that you shouldn't be mastering at 4k is that distributions not ready for 4k yet. You know right now streaming companies like Netflix, Hulu or Amazon can only deliver between 60 and 60 megabytes per second, while 4k delivery is 6000 megabytes per second, just so you understand. So would you rather Would you rather master at 2k or 1080 P and it'd be really tight and look good and not be super super compressed? To be able to make it work within Netflix or Hulu or your VOD format or would you rather master at 4k where they're going to jam so much compression on the movie is going to look like crap when you do get it finally out into a Netflix environment or Hulu or Amazon or so forth. So think about it think about 4k right now is not a requirement for for movie distribution deals. But the good news is believe it or not the 35 millimeter is becoming a discussion now. Now I come from a world where I used to work in 35 millimeter all the time. Now people like oh film is dead film is dead film is it might be dead is a shooting format I don't think it will be I hope it's always around I hope it's an option for filmmakers. It's a wonderful option. But right now film is still the only sure way to ensure that your film will survive. The new type of film will ensure that your movie will survive at least 150 years in a salt ball vault somewhere as opposed to hard drives which is five years old five years tops for hard drive so you're constantly have to change your hard drive. You're also going to as new Codex come out new compressions come out new everything comes out you're going to be constantly re compressing it real putting it read this read that all all of it. But if you master it on a film or you archive it on film, and you put it in a salt mine somewhere in in Utah, where all the studios have there, they're all they're all the backlog of studios like Warner Brothers Disney all that they all have their stuff on film, and they put it in the salt vaults and they sit there for hundreds you know for decades and it protects them you know that's how they were able to go back and you know they dug up Star Wars you know they dug up the original prints from Star Wars when they were doing the re releases of it and jaws and all these other movies. That's how they did it. They didn't put it on hard drives. So right now there is a discussion going on with a lot of distributors that they want 35 millimeter prints, Master prints so they can archive I have it now this is obviously much bigger studios much bigger distributors. But it is a discussion as things are, people are starting to, to talk about again, because it is what works. You know, digital is wonderful. But film is what works as far as a archiving format. So if you don't believe me that you won't see the difference between 2k and 4k, go do a test. Go to the lab, if you have a lab and master, you know, have them output, you know, for, you know, like, five, four minutes, three minutes of some scenes. And, and don't tell them tell them not to tell you what's what, have them do a 1080 have them do a 2k and haven't do a 4k, you know, and just and see how it works. And see what what it looks like see what progress looks like, see what uncompressed looks like so let's take a look at it on the screen, or wherever your final outputs going to be. And that's the other question guys, you got to figure out what you're going to out. Where's your endgame on this, you know if it's theatrical, which is great. And that's a wonderful thing. You focus on theatrical, but remember theatrical is a very small window of how people are going to consume your media or consume your movie, it's a very small window, it's mostly going to be consumed on on streaming formats, specifically now more and more than ever on the streaming formats. And on a lesser, lesser note, DVD and blu ray for as long as they'll they'll be around with us. But it's going to be a digital streaming format. So that means it's going to be either on TV, on your monitors on your iPhone, on your iPads, or on your computer monitor. And more and more people are watching movies on their iPhones, iPads and computer monitors, and then also on their TVs as well. But the mobile devices are coming up so you work all this hard. And I do this, I do this, I'm going to do a little quick side note, I have a buddy of mine who's a master he does a mastering of audio audio mastering and he actually has a full blown Atmos you know rig so you can do the utmost like the the most amazing surround sound, state of the art surround sound that you can get. And he has all that at for a feature for feature release the IEEE and for five one mix for your you know, for your home stereo system or for your home entertainment system. And then I was there listening to the mix. And then I saw these two little crappy speakers on the top of the on the top of the council and he's like, well, What's that for? He goes, Oh, that's for what I mix this for, for VOD, or for digital, or for an iPad or for YouTube or online. I'm like really, because Yeah, because I could do all this work on this five, one mix. But if you've crunched down that five, one mix or the Atmos mix, down to a stereo that's going to be playing outside of an iPod or iPad, or iPhone, it's gonna sound like shyt. So So what he says he's like, I have to remix it for the worst case scenario. So he had to go back and remix it for the worst case scenario. So even audios are already dealing with this, with the whole new technology, how fast is changing. So do that test guys, and let me know what you know, figure it out, if you can actually see a huge difference between the 4k and the 2k. You know, apples to apples, then my god go to 4k. But again, it's all about your money. It's how much money you have, how many resources you have, and what kind of horsepower you have to push it, you know, so my advice for indie filmmakers on a budget, you know, that have small budgets anywhere from and I'm not going to say what budget it is because I've worked on million dollar movies, I didn't have the horsepower after everything was said and done, because they didn't have enough money in their post budget. So it's all relative to what how much money you have, if I were you, like I've always said bring in a post production supervisor during pre production, or at least consult with a post production supervisor before you start production. It's so valuable, you have no idea if you really want to go to 4k and you really want to shoot 4k and master to 4k, or shoot 6k and mash it up whatever you want to master to 4k, 2k whatever, at least you really should have an understanding of what it's actually going to take financially between hard drives and backup hard drives and di T's on set and how fast it's gonna go and all this kind of stuff. And at the end of the day, guys, it's really not about about what the camera is or how what kind of case you have on your mini case, different case you have on your format that you're shooting on. It's always about story. You know, we don't have a lack of cameras with four 6k or high resolution cameras in the world. We have a lack of good storytellers. We have a lack of good filmmakers out there, because they're so concentrated on getting the latest gear and they're not learning their craft of storytelling. So my advice is always look at the story first, and then look at the gear that's going to help you tell that story. And the resources are going to help you tell that story and the best way. So I hope you guys got a lot out of this episode. It's something that's been dear to my heart for a while I really wanted people to kind of understand There's a lot of confusion between all the damn K's all over the place in the world and how far how big the files and all that stuff is concerned but I hope this is some practical advice to hopefully get you guys movie movies off the ground and actually get made in finished. So of course if anyone has any questions I do offer consulting post production supervision, and post production consulting on indie films. Just head over to indie film hustle comm forward slash consulting and let me know. Also don't forget to head over to film festival tips.com that's Film Festival tips calm, so you can download my free ebook on how to get into film festivals for cheap or free. As always, keep that hustle going. Keep following those dreams. Keep making it happen. Talk to you soon.

YOUTUBE VIDEO

LINKS

SPONSORS

  1. Bulletproof Script Coverage – Get Your Screenplay Read by Hollywood Professionals
  2. AudibleGet a Free Filmmaking or Screenwriting Audiobook
  3. Rev.com – $1.25 Closed Captions for Indie Filmmakers – Rev ($10 Off Your First Order)

IFH 009: Suki Medencevic ASC & the Art of Cinematography

I have found over the years that cinematography is one of the biggest technical issues in independent film. Someone borrows a friend’s RED Camera or Arri Alexa and thinks that’s all you need. Cinematography is not only a mystical art but imperative in today’s gluttony of indie films in the marketplace.

Just because you own or have access to a RED Camera or Arri Alexa does not make you a cinematographer. Many first time directors get fooled by this time and time again.

Good cinematography can really make your independent film project rise out of the gluttony of poorly produced indie films. Today on the show I interviewed Suki Medencevic ASC (American Society of Cinematographers).

super 16mm film, Kodak, 16mm film, 16 mm film, 35mm film, 35 mm film, filmmaking, film school, filmmaker, indie film, ARRI SR2 ARRI SR3, Bolex, Eclair film camera, film camera

Cinematography over Espresso

I’ve known Suki Medencevic for many years and I loved talking shop with him over an espresso at Starbucks on the Westside of Los Angeles. I wanted to bring that experience to the Indie Film Hustle Tribe.

He’s a wealth of knowledge when it comes to cinematography, lights, cameras, lenses, and so on. He also is shooting on film, yes 35mm film on the hit FX Show America Horror Story: Hotel.

He works alongside the show’s lead cinematographer Michael Goi, ASC, a legend in the business. He also has a new Walt Disney film “Invisible Sister” coming out Oct 9th, 2015. He’s a busy guy! Prepare to be enlightened in the art of cinematography.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:02
Guys so this this week, we have an amazing guest. He's a longtime friend of mine, Suki. Now please forgive me Suki Suki Medencevic. Suki is an ASC cinematographer. If you don't know what an ASE cinematographer is, you will learn after the show what an AC villain photographer is. He's been a cinematographer for decades now. Not to make them feel old or anything but I've known him for over a decade as well. Suki is a really good friend of mine and I he teaches over at USC at New York Film Academy and a few other places as well. And I thought he'd be an amazing guest to talk about cinematography, the artists in photography, and also working on his new show American Horror Story. Now one thing he did not discuss, or we didn't get a chance to discuss, or I forgot to ask for him to tell this amazing story that he had with Steve Jobs. I always call Suki, the most interesting man in the world. He is a very worldly, he shot all over the world. His stories are legendary, to say the least. And he has this one story with Steve Jobs. He was shooting a documentary for Pixar and Steve Jobs. He was going to shoot an interview with Steve Jobs. The late great Steve Jobs and Steve Jobs came in and started being Steve Jobs. You know, he's like, Hey, you know, I want to move this here. I want to move this there that and Suki coming from Bosnia. I guess the more European vibe of of who is Suki. He just didn't care who Steve Jobs was. And he just like, no, this is how we're going to shoot it. And this is why this is we're going to move this here. We're going to put the lights here and we're going to put the camera here and Steve, Steve from what Suki Tommy Steve basically just looked at him and he goes explained to me why are you doing it? And Suki explained to him the purposes of why he was doing and he goes Okay, no problem. But when Suki said no to Steve Jobs, the entire crew, the director, everyone you could feel a pin drop. And he the director came up afterwards like what did you do? What did you say? And he goes Look, Mr. Jobs might know how to make iPhones but he doesn't know how to light a scene I do. He has no idea about lenses or cameras or anything like that. I do. That's my specialty. I'm not going to go into his place and tell them how to make an iPhone. So that is who you're dealing with here with Suki. And that's why I love him so much. He is very honest, very straightforward. And extremely funny guy. And he's just an amazing amazing not only a talent as a cinematographer, but a great person. So without further ado, here is the world famous Suki. Suki thank you so much for joining us on the on the indie film hustle podcast where we are grateful for you coming on to the show.

Suki Medencevic ASC 3:29
Well, I'm very happy to be part of the show.

Alex Ferrari 3:32
So for you guys who don't know Suki and I are good friends, we go way back. We met over oh god over. It's getting close to almost 1314 years ago now. Something like that. And we've been friends ever since even from my days in Florida. We always stayed in touch. And he always told me to move out to LA as soon as possible. And what was the thing you told me about moving out to LA?

Suki Medencevic ASC 3:55
Well, there's regret the regret of Well, no, the main thing was, I guess if you want to make it in Hollywood, you have to be in Hollywood, California, not in Hollywood, Florida. So that's the

And that the only thing I would regret not moving to LA is I didn't do it sooner. Right? And in many ways you were correct, sir, but I'm out here and I've been out here for a while now. So thank you for that. So let's get into it. Um, so Suki. One thing I you know, when we work together, I you told me about your film school experience, which was very unique film school experience as opposed to film school experiences here in America. Can you tell us a little bit about your school where you went to school and how is it different from American film school?

Well, the school I went I actually went to film schools. My very first film school was in Yugoslavia in Belgrade, which was a capital of Yugoslavia. And it's a school of Dramatic Arts that pretty much covers theater, film, television, and acting tool. So cinematography is one of the one of the just departments there. Unlike schools, United States or most schools in other states, that particular school basically has a program master program for every department that you actually major in right away. And you're studying for four years, your field and you're basically whatever you choose editing, cinematography, directing, that's what you get massively beautiful thing about the school is that's free. And like most of the schools in Europe, but the biggest challenge is to get in the school because the school is very limited, they take only five students a year per cow, per department. Yes, so that's kind of competition is huge. And it's like,

It's like fame.

It is, you know, because it's so you know, the, it's very expensive school, so therefore, they cannot have like 2030 students of cinematography and also the program is scheduled. And structured, the whole curriculum is structured in a way that graduates from the School can immediately get a job in industry or in production. So they will be not like unemployed cinematographers or directors, basically, there is a certain guarantee that you will be employed right after school. But one thing I did was kind of a little bit unusual. As I was already in a third year, in school in Belgrade, I went to Prague to visit a friend who at the time was at a very famous one of the most famous film schools in the world, pharmo, which was a National Film School in Czechoslovakia back then. And I came to visit my friend over at Prague film school. And I instantly fell in love in school with a city with all white with all energy, and basically decided to drop out from the Belgrade school, even though I had only one more year left to get my degree, go to Prague, start from the beginning, and basically repeat my school for another four years, four and a half years. And it was kind of crazy at the time, nobody believed that there was any logic in it. And to me, it was just kind of a gamble because I felt if I go to if I ever get accepted in that school, that school will get me far better preparation. And and really, you know, make me ready for for my career as a cinematographer, which proved to be true.

Now cannot Can you tell me that story? You told me this years ago? I don't know if you remember it or not? How they prepare you for? Like the kind of questions they asked on a test about the girl with a bra in the by the lake, like, how long do you have between the time she takes off the bra to shoot a scene? Yeah, yeah, explain that. Because I found that fascinating. When you told it to me years ago,

One of the questions that you will have in the written test if you're filming the girl, by the lake and in the morning, and how, how much earlier, she has to be ready for the scene to be shot properly. And of course, you have to think about all these details on the light composition. But also detail about the wardrobe because if she's very tight outfit, and if she's very bright, if she takes it off too soon, there will be there will be marks like Rama is of course, yeah, Brian marks and then of course it takes about please well in an hour for Brad marks to kind of fade out so you have a nice smooth skin that you can photograph. And these are kind of important things you have to, as a cinematographer, think about so it's not always about lighting and composition and movement, and it's much more much more kind of like comprehensive approach to cinematography.

Now, I know a lot of you're you're an ASC member. And I know a lot of people, especially in the indie film hustle community might not know what ASC stands for or what it is or how even you get in into this kind of exclusive club. Can you explain a little bit about that?

Well, ASC stands for American cinematographer society. And it's the organization founded in 1919 by a group at a time, Hollywood, cinematographers with a goal to preserve the artistry and integrity of cinematographers profession. So it's also support club that creates the community of highly respected professionals. Were in very friendly and relaxed environment. We can exchange all our ideas get advices complain about to get a drink, you know, things like that to be it's a fraternity almost it's kind of fraternity. It's kind of like place where you have like safe haven and and it's been also place which really nurtures nurtures artists of cinematography and keeps the level of our craft and our art to the highest standards. And based on American cinematographer society's structure, many other countries have formed the same organizations basically modeled of the American civil society. And, and I think it's a great way to keep keep cinematographers especially nowadays, when everything so global, keep us all together and keep exchange of ideas and information to the maximum. So how do you become there? Well, who become a member of American Cemetery for society, it's the organization that is by invitation only. So, you cannot apply for it that there is no application form, you have to be invited by at least three members, three active members of the ASC they have to invite you and then they have to write a letter of recommendation to the membership board, American cinematographer, society is very active in many aspects. They have education, board, science and technology board, which is one of the very, very important groups also has educational, reach out international dinners, you know, we have our dinners when we have movies and discussions and so there's a lot of a lot of sub committees within the American Astronomical Society. So one of the subcommittee's for the members, the group which is open and any member of American cinematography belongs to that group basically, everybody has a right to interview and ask questions any prospective candidate and find out if the candidate meets standards and requirements of the ASC not only based on on their work, but you know, you have to share certain certain values which are common among amongst cinematographers and and if the committee finds your suitable candidate The board has to approve but then it goes to all the members of the FCC to finally give agreement. If there is one. If there is one, basically you have to be alone unanimously accepted. If there is one objection, you will not be able to Wow, really? Yes. And that has to do with if you if you treat it down the line in your career at some point if you treated your crew members or somebody unfairly, unprofessionally, you never know when this can come back to you and haunt you, and maybe a very high price. So professional integrity is one of the highest values that Americans have our society holds. Very cool.

So I was always I always fascinated how you got in and what the process was. So thank you for sharing that. Now, when you're working with a director, what do you look for in in a director, indie filmmaker, or indie director or just regular director?

Well, either we'd really like it varies like I I'm looking always, with every director, I'm looking for a partner or somebody who can speak the same language, I do visually, cinematically, somebody who is passionate about what they do somebody who is who is able to challenge me and I will say probably the most successful collaborations I had came from directors who who would challenge me in like, in a way that as a cinematographer, I will have to come up with a with a with a solution to the ideas that director might have. And my job as a cinematographer is to facilitate this idea into facility division. And, but also I like to challenge director also if if I see the director sometime is going very safe, safe path in process of filmmaking. You know, playing it safe, it's never a good option never gets you anywhere. So you have to be able to find, find your own identity, find your own language, find your own way to to express yourself, but be slightly different. And that's when you look at all these great directors, why they are who they are, is because they have a recognizable style and that ever played it safe.

Very cool. Now when you're when you're choosing a camera for your project, what how do you choose a camera for your project? Is it budget is it look what's what are the factors?

Well, it's really interesting how things have changed. When it comes down to the position of cinematographer an older practice it used to be not long time ago that cinematographer is the one who decides what camera will be used. What this what of him stock, water lab, water processing, water finishing, basically cinematographers will completely in control of all visual and technology aspect of the filmmaking with arrival of digital technology and an arrival of the new category called owner operator basically, market gets flooded with people who were able to afford and purchase equipment, equipment cameras, they became much more affordable and much more accessible. So the choice of the tools for your for your work became something that sometimes would be already decided before cinematographer gets hired. And especially during the read craze, about 10 years ago when everybody was really trying to jump on a bandwagon and buy the most amazing digital camera that can provide you with 4k whatever resolution for is

25k now 25k

There is going to be no more k the better picture

Of course you don't even need a cinematographer revenue for

The character we have this new cameras which doesn't even need a light so

I've seen those cameras to actually quite incredible

Like today's cinematographer, you just press the button and make sure you have fresh battery but going back to the ask for how you chose your equipment I still decide I still on I was fortunate to most of my project to to insist that we use particular camera or particular lens or particular approach or process or post production workflow because it is part of what I do as a cinematographer so how the image is captured in many ways defines how the final look after the post production and color manipulation color correction we will how the image is going to look like so yes I always try to brings my expertise and my knowledge of course within the budget and and very often people specially production they think if you are asking for some higher end piece of equipment that's out of price range which is not true You will be surprised that sometimes much easier you will be able to afford something that is really high and it's something that everybody wants so the only advice I could give to any filmmaker is to think about the story think about what you really need and then take it from there I remember somebody recently some of my colleagues from from the SEC talk about shooting a film on Super 16 very very good budget this budget but decided to go super 16 for aesthetic reasons wow and and it made perfect sense to go super 16 because they want to get this kind of like old grainy kind of like the wrestler yeah like the wrestler for instance. This one is particularly talking it's called the paper boy

Yeah, I've heard of it. Oh yeah,

Yeah, yeah shot by Roberto shaper. So I mean, it should be your aesthetic, aesthetic creative choice and like currently I'm working on American Horror Story as additional tandem units cinematographer with amazing Michael going a see cinematographer who was Emmy nominated and also used to be president of the ANC So Michael goy created actually style for the film for this particular TV show is by shooting on film on 35 millimeter and and we are actually shooting on 35 millimeter film is already the the the TV series is already in its fifth season being shot on polyhedral cameras 35 millimeter quarter film, and

It was one of the few shows that is being shot on film right?

Yes, one of the few not wanting to shoot on 35 millimeter Kodak they shoot on black and white 35 they shoot on color reversal. 16 separate you name it. It's been all used on the Trump

Nice very nice. Yep. Now can you explain the difference between prime and zoom lenses for our audience?

Oh, well. The basic basic difference between prime and zoom lenses is that with a zoom lens you can change the viewing angle without taking lens of from from the camera buddy and zoom lenses well without going too much into history. zoom lens is really our tool of the television from the 50s and 60s when Israel's like Yeah, so the news reels when you need it to be able to get from same vantage point tight shots as well as wide wide shots and that's when really a lot of zooms for 16 millimeter cameras were developed. And then obviously technology unable to, to do the same thing for the motion picture. And as we all know back from 60s and 70s, every movie you see has to start from the zooming in or zooming out, like every piece of equipment that gets overused and becomes kind of like a cliche. So the zoom basically is just more flexible tool to get precise composition, precise framing. And prime lenses, as the name said, they're actually lenses which have set for collect. So if you actually do on 18 or 21 or 2527 32 by 40, or any focal length, you know that you shop will have specific perspective and specific viewing angle and therefore, you have to as a filmmaker, you have to understand right away in your mind before you even put a lens on a camera, what it means to put 21 millimeter or to put 14 millimeter or put the 10 millimeter lens what is the look what is the what's going to happen with the image. If you choose layers or another what's going to happen with the closer if you shoot it on 27 or if you shoot it on an 85 or maybe who showed it on 100 millimeter, what will be relation between your foreground elements and background elements. there's a there's a whole like aesthetic to each of these lenses and that's subject to whole different podcasts about aesthetics of wide or long lenses sure, but it's a known fact that many directors they have their own favorite lenses or something like for instance Roman Polanski did a movie called Rosemary's Baby pretty much with two lenses with 18 and I think 14 millimeter lens and everything's just that way in between

Now the there is some downfalls to using zoom lenses obviously you need more light depending on the scenario because you got more glass that light has to go through. So there is a kind of give and take and obviously primes give you just very different look but there is a little bit of a downside to zoom lens can you explain the data without negatives are

Basically you know basically a zoom lenses just by by its nature they have in order to accommodate a wide range of different viewing angles. The construction and design of an optical elements is much more complex than design of the prime lenses so therefore there is a certain inherent light loss that if there is something you can do about it because light travels through 20 something pieces of glass and only when it leaves the lens and goes to your sensor it might lose half or more of its initial amount of elimination so you just have to that's that's kind of trade off and also because of the large amount of glass that everyone minds has it's very easy to introduce certain mistakes that no matter what lens will do something they don't want the storage room certain level of flaring or loss of contrast or the breathing you know there's a lot of elements elements that can affect affect the quality of of sudden and so, only the highest as most expensive zoom lenses the call can go easily up to $100,000 apiece are very much free of many of these typical mistakes you will have with his own so if I can suggest anything to to filmmakers, especially aspiring filmmakers I suggest to stick with prime lenses and and develop understanding what is basically aesthetic of 18 millimeter and what is that equal 50 millimeter lens and you will figure it out very soon that you do not need 50 lenses in your package that you can actually make very interesting projects with very few lenses as long as you understand how to properly use them

And there are options nowadays before to get a prime set of lenses used the cost you know 3040 50,000 or more to have a full prime set where now there are other options like the rokinon sets which are very affordable for under $2,000 you can get five prime lenses mind you they're not going to be the same quality as as ICER as a slicer or Canon or what the other one the other one besides size which is the other big guy I

Chose the other one oh Sumi Crohns summicron lights like like like Chrome yeah

Those guys so but but this is another affordable way for at least a learning tool and you can get some pretty images out of them and they're not they're not bad horrible lenses but I mean I want to set myself in the second I put it up against some Zeiss. I'm like, oh, or cooks cooks I was the other one or set of cooks. I'm like, oh well there's a difference. But it's a great learning tool. And for someone starting out it's I think a good way to experiment with with products. do great

Oh yes, yes, absolutely I agree and one one thing that you will have to always ask yourself okay, when you're doing a project are you doing it for the big screen of course you always have a vision when whenever you're shooting something well, you want to, you want to end on a big screen. So you have to set your standard as high as possible. Because if you're doing something small and you're just not caring too much about what's going to be the final outcome and you're doing something interesting something for the to be viewed on iPad or or iPhone or some other portable device. Well shooting with the full genomes or some high end, Leica whatever. Hey way overkill and you really don't need it. But if your project ends up being picked up and released, and somebody can see it on the big screen, everything looks great on iPad, and the moment you started the moment you started going past 26 inch mark all of a sudden, all the all the mistakes of the lenses are starting to be more and more obvious. So yes, you can get the decent image from rockin arms or some co wires or some other one interesting thing that happened lately is that a lot of cinematographers are discovering old lenses like oh, all the Bausch and Long's and some other old old lenses some bell towers. Now the bell towers Yeah, yes, but there's always was made like 50 years ago and the reason why these lenses are now kind of popular, you know, as well as the old panavision lenses which they just get to reintroduce is that through the history of technology that was basically trying to get as sharp as possible as contrast the as color accurate image, because of the analog nature of the film, lasers have to be really sharp really light contrast and get to get the performance to the absorb the highest specs. Because dealing with the film, which is analog medium, when the light hits. film grain, no matter how sharp your lens is there certain diffusion, certain loss of sharpness and contrast and quality that that is, you know, inevitable just by the nature of the film. But with the with the sensors with the digital sensors, you don't have that you have very specific precise photosite on your audio chip that is always going to be in the same place and always capture the photons which are coming through the lens. So all the sudden you have all these lenses, when you put them on the digital sensors, they become super sharp. But they're basically over compensated for what Sanders needs. So what we do now well, we have to put some filters, some you know, softening all types of subsidy filters to kind of take away this digital to digital electronic lock or, or you just

Fix it in post.

Order you know or just par by yourself if you're lucky on eBay, you can still find some you know old ball towels and have somebody who can who can actually retrofit it for you then you will be lucky and you will get you will get a true nice set of old lenses. That will work really well. So I mean, yes, I agree that you can get very decent results. But you know, obviously, with a cheaper lenses, you have less forgiveness, which might be actually a good way to train yourself because when you go with cheaper lenses, the moment you start going with a higher contrast we do get flaring in the lens, well you have to take care of it. There is no like high quality coating the globe eliminate any kind of flare that you might get by having highlighted picture so it's really I think it's always good way to start. Okay.

Very cool. Now, I know you get asked you t chat, which will do t chat right now.

USC Yeah, Medical School of Cinematic Arts.

Okay. And I know a lot of you have a lot of cinematography students as well. I know one of the questions they ask you all the time is how do you get started in cinema? Like how do you start a cinematography career? So what would be your advice?

Well, that was kind of question I asked. I asked myself when I came to the United States, back in early 90s. There are basically two ways how you how you break in business and how you start your career. The old Hollywood traditional way would be that you would somehow get a job in a camera department or in any department for that matter and somehow make your way to camera department as camera intern and maybe loader and then second assistant and first assistant maybe operator and then by the age you're about to retire you might get transferred to shoot the movie as a dp or not. It's kind of that's kind of how it is that's kind of how it was and nothing wrong with that. You know, by the time by the time you are actually dp. I mean, if you're really good, you can actually make this transition much quicker. But you had trends at least to observe other DPS or other professionals do their job and learn well and learn properly.

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Alex Ferrari 30:24
But still doesn't mean doesn't mean that you might make the transition, you may end up being discouraged operator and never make transition. Another way of becoming cinematographer in Hollywood is very interesting is starting with the light working as a gaffer or in electric department. And basically just being the technician who deals with the lights and creates lights and works closely with the DP, you sharpen your skills, you learn your craft, and eventually you get the break. To make transition from being referred and becoming the DP. There are many great DPS in Hollywood actually took that route and became very successful, successful cinematographers. And the third way, which is more and more and more popular, especially in last decade, is basically going to the school. And depending on the school, that you go, you might get really good education, or you might get really well prepared. And and then basically coming out of the school, you decide, okay, well, if you're a cinematographer, is that what you do, and you start by small projects and gradually create your resume and portfolio and eventually start shooting bigger projects. But my, my, my path was, when I came to LA was basically I had to make these choices. And I simply decided not to do any of that previous of the dimension of being taking traditional gradual way because I felt coming from the school, I was already well prepared to start as a cinematographer, but the problem is, nobody can trust you. When you come from the school, nobody will trust you with their money that you can actually deliver a motion picture or whatever budget it is. And you just have to be persistent. And and basically, just keep going until your opportunity arises. And then eventually you get to feature film, after your first feature film, then things go much, much easier. Because from this point on, you're not anymore. First time cinematographer.

And it's also it's also a long game. It's not a short game, this is not something that's going to happen in a year or two. This is something that could happen over a decade or more.

Suki Medencevic ASC 32:39
No, it does have to be over a decade. But you know, to get chance to get your first feature film, it took me three years, which I think it's normal. It's normal for somebody who comes into town and just start from pretty much

Alex Ferrari 32:48
Which, which if I may, if I may interject, it is your your cinematography debut here in America is one of my favorite films growing up. For obvious reasons. You remember that movie, I'm assuming, but of course, it is called embrace of the vampire, starring the lovely and very naked, Alyssa Milano. So yeah, as a growing up teenage boy, I thank you.

Suki Medencevic ASC 33:15
Yes, I'm happy to provide beautiful images that can stay in our minds for a long, long time. Yes. And also Jennifer Tilly was part of this project as well as Martin camp. But that was kind of this situation, when you get a chance to do your first feature film, you don't ask what it is, you're right, this is your chance. You have 12 days, you have to make it and you did that in 12 days in 12 days. Yes. And that

Alex Ferrari 33:39
Was back in the night. Those eight eight.

Suki Medencevic ASC 33:41
That was 9393 93 or 94. I think it's about it was something

Alex Ferrari 33:45
Like that. And that back then was that's an obscene pace nowadays. That's what indie filmmakers do all the time. They got a movie in five or 12 days. But

Suki Medencevic ASC 33:55
Yeah, that was shot on 35 with two cameras up to full production packages. And that was one beauty. beautiful thing about being in Well, in this town and in this business that no matter how big budget you are, you can still get the top notch equipment, the best things best cameras, best lenses as you're in town. Yeah, I mean, you get to Boulder. We shot this in Minnesota, but still.

Alex Ferrari 34:18
And then and then you followed up with one of my other favorites. Poison Ivy? Yes.

Suki Medencevic ASC 34:23
So the actually the secret to original Poison Ivy and that was also with Alyssa Milano. Yes, it was. Yes. And that was Yeah, that was interesting, interesting project. But what happened after this, I did another couple couple films. of this. I would say medium, medium, over budget, or under 5 million. And then I did a film in in LA. I'm very proud of not many people have seen it, but we've had amazing cast, including Burt Reynolds Keith Carradine, Pat kingo

Alex Ferrari 35:00
Yeah I forgot to

Suki Medencevic ASC 35:01
Call the the hunters mon

Alex Ferrari 35:04
Oh yeah sir that was beautiful. I remember seeing that on your reel back in the day

Suki Medencevic ASC 35:09
Was gorgeous that was a nice nice film that we shot all around LA and I was very very proud of this film Unfortunately, it didn't get wide release but it was definitely one of the films that I was very very very proud of. And then industry changed obviously later on with with the rise of tentpole movies and yeah, this appearance of medium budget films are so as we all now pretty much we all have either a lower budget under three four or 5 million and then 50 million and up in that is very rare you'll find any project that is in the range between five and 15 million so because of the market and the way the formula works

Alex Ferrari 35:52
Now as since you started out you know doing low budget films What can you can you give advice to filmmakers on a low budget to make their films look high budget, what can they do? Are there any tricks in the cinematography and possibly in posts with color grading? What can they do any tips that they can like take their film up a notch look wise

Suki Medencevic ASC 36:16
So how to make your film not is not up how you can do this there really there's only one way you have to put yourself 110% there's really no you cannot cheat one thing about cinematography you cannot cheat you cannot. You cannot really I mean you either know, or if you don't, I mean it's obvious it will show on the screen immediately. And you just have to trust yourself trust your gut. And the key thing I think it will be to be able to develop trust between you and director you have to make sure that director trust you and that you trust director so that you have full support and full backup that you are free to do whatever creatively you want to do and not to be afraid to try to do things and because this is how you This is how you make your mark if you if you try to play it safe Well it might not get you where you want to be so you have to be able but again it all comes from constantly working on your skill if you're just waiting from film to film to sharpen up your skill and and and raise the level of your professional experience it's going to be very slow process. I always suggest to my students and my friends though as a cinematographer your your 24 hours a day except when you sleep you're a cinematographer, you have to observe things you have to look at the things you have to have a camera all the time take pictures of something that is that is intriguing or interesting to you that's the key thing so you have to have your eyes constantly working remember images remember images and when you when you show up on the site you can say oh I remember when I saw that looked really cool let's try this or let's try that let me do this. But again, you have to have a trust how to make something look bigger than it is doesn't depend only on you depends on many other people I think your cooperation with other departments the production designer and the costume designers is a crucial that you can get support if you don't have a set that can support your your idea of having a bigger one yes, then you will not be able to if you have a director who doesn't understand that staging scene just in the corner will make film look very claustrophobic in very small versus taking it away from the wall and making opening up and giving the depth Give me the space you know that's all part of the process so you can just do your part and then hope the rest will follow.

Alex Ferrari 38:54
Now another question I know your students ask you is how do you prepare and conduct yourself in a job interview as a cinematographer?

Suki Medencevic ASC 39:03
Um, people think that Hollywood or I don't like to was born Hollywood but let's say industry is very careful. He Yes, it is casual on one way but also it is very judgmental in many, many ways. My experience for most of the time going for the interviews was when you go for interview quite often depends again, who are you talking to? And depends what they're expecting from you. Quite often you will be actually more asked and you will be interviewed for the reasons not to hire you then reasons to hire you. And they will just talk to you and find out the reason why you are not the right person for the movie. So it's a system of elimination basically. So you cannot or try not to give the record producer, whoever else is interviewing you not to give them trends to eliminate you, you have to be prepared to show that you have integrity that you have artistic vision, that you also have managerial and leadership skill. Because in deposition, you are a leader of the group. So you have to be able to communicate, you can have great idea, but if you cannot communicate, that's not going to help anybody, right? Everything, everything is important. I've done interviews where I was prepared to the maximum, bringing all kinds of elements, visual reference, total analysis of the script, total analysis, breakdown of the visual, creating more books, doing all kinds of stuff, because some directors really expect that you do your homework. And that can leave very, very strong impression and I've been in a situation that you know, I would get the job just because they were impressed by my preparedness and my willingness and my enthusiasm to put to work and really show that I care and I'm really enthusiastic about the project. And I think enthusiasm is I think the key element that you have to show you don't have to necessarily hit all the points when you are presenting the visual concept for the film there might be sometimes even completely different than what the director had in mind. But if they're smart enough he or she might realize well, at least I'm dealing somebody who understands or who has a visual culture so maybe we can do something we can come up with something interesting. I've been also to interviews where I'm simply to sitting and listening to what the director or producer have to tell me how they want this film to be photographed and what they expected for me to deliver got it there is no wrong or right but you have to be as a cinematographer when you offer interview you have to pay attention to everything you have to present yourself because your this is your as you know there is no second transfer first impression you have to leave as best impression as you can and even if you don't get the job if you do well on your interview believe me they will remember you and and they might call you for some other project some other time or at least if you've already gained for the interview they will remember you and so you can keep your standards up

Alex Ferrari 42:22
Yeah and I think a lot of that advice works as well for directors going for a directing assignment or directing jobs as well. Even if it's a small indie project that they're going into direct drive to get a job for or larger ones that's a I think a lot of that stuff transfers over pretty pretty easily and seamlessly

Suki Medencevic ASC 42:40
Yeah, we'll have stuff it's you know a lot of stuff it's very much common sense and you can you know like how conduct the interview I mean you can even read a tips there are a bunch of books written on this on the subject how to conduct yourself how to prepare yourself for the interview, any corporate job or any other office job that you go for interview well of course if you're going for an interview you don't want to show up in flip flops and T shirt Alice This is your style and this is what you're going for which is nothing wrong with that right but you might be a little bit more on you know torn down now until you get a chance to show your your your eccentricity and but at the end it's really all about your work. But think about it when you go to the interview that means people get in people are intrigued by you by your work that's how they get your resume and they'll look at your resume and say oh yeah I want to meet with this person and now it's all that you have to do the what's what's necessary to get the job

Alex Ferrari 43:41
Got it. So let me ask you a question. Well how do you feel about and I know this is a question that will we can go on for a whole podcasts about but how do you feel about digital taking over film?

Suki Medencevic ASC 43:53
Well, you know, obviously this is a subject that is being discussed. ad nauseum like in the last whatever few

Alex Ferrari 44:00
Years and a few minutes a few minutes a few minute like kind of wrap up of what your your feeling is because I know we can go on for hours on this topic alone.

Suki Medencevic ASC 44:07
Well, my feeling is my feeling is the same way that television didn't kill radio and cinema is still around even though everybody has home theater. I'm seeing the digital as a just a great tool that expedites the process of filmmaking makes it far more efficient, which is true but doesn't mean necessarily just saves you money or saves you time. There are pros and cons in one or another. What field has that digital labor network never has it never will have a feel has a level of excitement. film has a level of mystery and magic. That if you really care, that's the only way I really you can have it. The quality that film has is something that generations So filmmakers are raised on and they using film as a benchmark as the as the point of reference for everything else. Even digital camera makers manufacturers are using film and performance of the film to design their chip so the chip can make look of the film are not by servers. So I believe, I believe and thanks to efforts of many important directors, including Tarantino and JJ Abrams, Chris Nolan, that as long as there are people of that caliber in Hollywood who can actually who have power to say and make decisions Phil will be around and and valuable valuable tool for just yet another tool for cinematographers the show I'm working on which I mentioned earlier it's been shot on film and I'm sure it will be short film as the film does exist because it is such a part of identity on the show and switching to digital would take the whole the feeling and the flavor and the magic that that has and it's been it's never five years ago

Alex Ferrari 46:15
Very interesting so there is still a place for film and filmmaking

Suki Medencevic ASC 46:19
I truly I truly believe the only unfortunate thing is that because of the very sharp decrease in the demand that we are all witnessing you don't have any more you know lab around the recorder that's pretty much like in one lab now maybe two labs one in East Coast one here and that's it so I think if you're shooting something you better make sure that you have plays that you feel can be processed and prepared for for scanning and so it is it is it is adding additional logistical challenge which you know earlier we never had to think about

Alex Ferrari 46:59
Now what is your favorite camera to shoot with and why

Suki Medencevic ASC 47:04
You know, I like different cameras for different reasons. I like depending again on type of the project if I'm shooting punch shooting on film my favorite camera would be every every cam because it just it just amazing camera and it's pretty much what comes out to the design of the film camera this is like as best as it can be and I simply could not see what else could be improved to make any camera better than ericom unfortunately nobody's making any film cameras anymore panavision always had amazing cameras which are known for its reliability and beautiful design and precision and to me I think more than camera it's really lenses because lens is what creates your images lens is what what makes the picture and then cameras adjust in digital in a digital world cameras adjust computer that has actually some image capturing device which is your sensor and everything else is just the like electronics how you process the information created by your sensor and what you make out of it it's your your algorithm and your workflow and I mean yes I could I could say as far as the digital cameras My favorite is array aerial XL or, or any of the Eri digital cameras why because they made it right, they made it from the very beginning they made the camera that is very much made for cinematographers that the image that creates is very much even digital but very much in its feeling and texture very close to the sensibility of people who are used to working with the film and and you know when you're dealing with cameras which are made by a camera manufacturer that's been doing this for decades, then you can rest assure that they know how to get it right first time.

Alex Ferrari 49:04
The very cool now what do you have any fun stories of working abroad? Because I know you do a lot of filming overseas.

Suki Medencevic ASC 49:14
Oh my god, I could write a book about about as you should my experiences different countries different places. Well, you know, I think I think that the the key element I think the key element for anybody working in different places if that's also applicable even to working in United States and I've shot all over United States. Don't assume that if you go to different places that everything will be as it is in LA No, it's not. There is a lot of things that people do differently and if you try to change it and and force them to do it your way. Yeah, well, you're gonna have a problem there. Because are you talking about?

Alex Ferrari 49:58
Are you talking about crew or just Have you ever

Suki Medencevic ASC 50:01
Thought about the Chrome and how you're gonna handle the CRO how you're going to handle the equipment how you're going to deal with production? There is a lot of a lot of, I would say cultural differences between places between countries. I could maybe just mentioned one, one story that kind of comes to my mind. And it's earlier on, I was working on my second feature film in Taiwan. And that, that film particularly was interesting, because I went to do the movie, literally, from the set of bow of my embrace of the vampire. As we are filming last last night, and the night we're finishing early in the morning, and I got to get in the car, went to the airport and flew to Taiwan, to do my other movie. That particular experience was very, very unique, because here we are on 12. They super fast pace completely on adrenaline, no sleep, no nothing, you go to a place where you have a film, leisurely scheduled to be shot over like 50 days, we still managed to finish it on, I think 37 shooting days, we still had so much time that we didn't need all this time. But the challenge was working with a crew that I learned that nobody speaks English. And nobody speaks English, except I had one assistant who spoke English, and he was my only liaison who can help me to kind of, you know, let me know what's going on. I was given just the storyline what the film is about. And I will be picked up every morning in a hotel without knowing where I'm going, what I'm doing. And then when I show up on the set, they will tell me Oh, this is where we do the dinner scene. And then we will do the dinner scene, I had no idea what is about who's doing what, who's talking what, but somehow I will use the sign language somehow figured out how to how to light it. And one moment, which I remember was we were supposed to do the scene where one of the characters sets several cars on fire. And, you know, we did it on a backlog of the studio in Taipei. And we are just about to roll. We're just about to turn on the camera. I asked about the cars. How did they? How did they get discouraged? They're just casual question like, how did you? How did you get cars here? This is all we draw them in and park them. And I okay, and did you drain the fuel? And they asked me why. And I just looked and I told him Well, you're telling me that now. All the tanks are full of the fuel. Mike said yes. And I said on that note, thank you guys very much. I'm going out to my hotel would night. It was first of all the time I walked away from the set. Because basically I said you know there is no no film that is worth anybody dying or being injured, just because of the no somebodies negligence basically, and I told them that you know, I will be back when the fuel is drain and they have studied by fire truck, with fire extinguisher and everything so we can actually properly because, you know, I'm very safety conscious. And of course next day, everything was there, they told me Okay, now we can go we can assure that the fuel is drained. And wow. And they I asked Okay, so where is the fire truck, they told me you know, we don't need it. We have hand extinguishers. And I said well, I'll see you later. I said let's try to but I have seen on this monitor on the camera and walk away because because I don't want to be even nearby because I know how the cars burn. And of course set cars on fire. And of course, shortly after cars are all full of blaze we cut but you could not actually extinguish the fires because they had just couple of hand extinguishers which could do nothing. And at some point somebody I think from the neighborhood or whatever actually call 911 and they send the real fire trucks and and eventually real fire trucks came but I think what happened is production really didn't want to spend money on real fire trucks. So they realize it's they want to come anyway. So let us go. So yes, we didn't get the shots. Nobody fortunately got injured. But that was the lesson I learned and it was something that I remember.

Alex Ferrari 54:45
So I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit with the last two questions. Who is the best photographer of all time and why?

Suki Medencevic ASC 54:54
Well, that's very tough question. I know it's really tough question because every cinema Before you ask, will tell you different, different story and the reason why. Ah, yeah, I mean depends how far you want to go if you want to go in the days of old Hollywood Yeah, Greg talan comes to mind like, like legendary cinematographer, from his collaboration with Orson Welles and some other directors. You know, obviously, there's some amazing cinematographers from the time of, you know, golden era of Hollywood from you know, golden Technicolor,

Alex Ferrari 55:28
Let's say, let's the current era,

Suki Medencevic ASC 55:30
Well, I would say probably, maybe not the greatest, but probably the most influential would be probably Vittorio storaro, who actually had a chance to meet recently, although I've known his work since I was kid. And probably Vittorio storaro, because being the being European cinematographer who worked all over the world, he maintained his vitality or vitality from days, early days, a freebie from his first films to his latest film that he just finished in Iran, which I was able to literally see at the special screening last week. When you look at his work, he's always innovative, he's always pushing blame it, he's never the same, he always does things differently. And, but not only that, he does things differently. He sets the bar very high to everybody else. He He has incredible visual culture, he has incredible visual aesthetics that he he knows how to apply and incorporate in every film that he does. And everything from performance last time or in Paris, one from the heart. Apocalypse Now. Bulworth? I mean even tissue is doing that he did about 10 years ago, and some small films in Europe that nobody has ever seen, and including this film from Iran about Prophet Mohammed, which was just big epic film that he did, just, of course, amazing, masterful job. So to me, this is somebody that's what cinematographer should be always fresh, always innovative. always pushing the limit. So yeah, I would say single handedly probably storaro would be my choice of the most not the greatest, but probably the most influential photographers

Alex Ferrari 57:24
Now this is a question I asked all of my guests and it's always a tough question so just do the best you can What are your top three films of all time? Not in any order?

Suki Medencevic ASC 57:35
Oh, top three films probably would be a blade runner Yep. Lawrence of Arabia okay. And the third film would be abyss the Abyss

Alex Ferrari 57:50
Really the fish you put that on your top three

Suki Medencevic ASC 57:54
That's my top three and I have personal reasons for this because Tommy oh well. Lawrence of Arabia is a film that I saw as a child and also have a fourth film also Enter the Dragon

Alex Ferrari 58:06
Wow wow you really wow

Suki Medencevic ASC 58:06
These are the films which made important important important impact on me in different phases of my life Enter the Dragon was probably the film that going this way was a film that I don't think any other film made such a such impact on me that made me really believe that I'm I'm invincible like Bruce Lee I watched the movie he can do it I can do it I completely identify myself but has nothing to do with cinematography or anything but it just the the power of cinema the way as a kid I experienced Enter the Dragon. To me that was unbelievable. So yes, I'm not ashamed to say it was important in my childhood. Absolutely. Second important film was Lawrence of Arabia. I've seen it also as a kid. And no other film that I've seen so far had such a strong ability to transform and really transform me and my whole experience and made me really believe that I'd right there in the desert. With with Lauren cinema, Sharif and all these other characters and just experiencing it in of course, later on, I realized Well, it's because of the just amazing cinematic work of everybody. Of course, it was pretty young as a cinematographer. The third film was the blade runner and blue Thunder came came at a time in my life when I was deciding, okay, what should I do? What's my path? I was in my teenage, teenage phase and very much interested in photography. And then when I saw this film, I realize that just how photography in this particular film was so powerful and left and played such an important role. In a storytelling and overall feeling of the movie I felt that's something that I would like to do I would be able to I wish I could be able to do to create images that are so so powerful in storytelling that you can watch more without even listening to dialogue and then fourth film production for film so this list is the best came in my in my life when I was finishing my school or I was about to finish my film school and I know it was very controversial but maybe there was a point but I was just in special particular mode to watch something like this to get this underwater adventure Space Odyssey underwater and just whole experience of what's happening under the water and the world underwater and the end and you know, just all this drama that was happening. It was to me just amazing. And but what what really hit me was the fact that there was probably a moment of realization that I will never be able to make movies like this that I just wasted four years of my life and and I'm really now in trouble because I have no choice now you have to stick to it because there's no way back.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:15
So basically had the opposite effect that entered the dragon.

Suki Medencevic ASC 1:01:19
Yes, very. Like it was. As much as I loved the movie is also like wake up call for me realizing that I'm on the wrong path.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:29
Interesting how film works with people. My Blade Runner story is I actually I'm shameful to say that I finally sat down and watched Blade Runner for the first time about eight years ago. And before that, I always seen clips of it here and there and when I was working in a video store, when I was in high school it's just one of those I just never got around to it was always one of those I got to watch I got to watch it. But when I saw it, it was it is mesmerizing, in a way that I never it like jumped to the top three of the top five list of all time for me instantly just the cinematography the story, the world that Ridley Scott put together it was just every frame was a painting. It was gorgeous grid I'd never seen a film so gorgeous. It's just stunning. Like it was just amazing how that how Ridley was able to do that. And the cinematographer remind me who the cinematographer was Jordan

Suki Medencevic ASC 1:02:23
Cornett

Alex Ferrari 1:02:24
Yes, I remember I think it was you that told me that you saw his reel once and his reel was just the titles of the movies he did

Suki Medencevic ASC 1:02:34
Well you know when you reach a certain point in your career you do not need a reel however you know you might get in a situation that sometimes especially with some young cinematographer, young young directors they would write simply asked for reel of our w or you know like

Alex Ferrari 1:02:52
Yeah like and it's funny to say but the but the he his response to that was oh, I did Blade Runner. here's the here's the titles for you guys. Just found it funny.

Suki Medencevic ASC 1:03:02
I have interesting interesting with it. I think it has to do with our daddy but basically I think the anecdote is about very experienced cinematographer who is not like other 50 something films and he was working with some very young gun first time were very enthusiastic director. So they came to the set he came to the set, he put his cane and just stood there resting on his cane and director was going all over the place with his viewfinder checking on the strength and going here and there and at some point came to him where he was standing at he said oh actually I think the camera will be here and I'm disappointed yes that's why I put my cane here.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:44
There is something to say about experience

Suki Medencevic ASC 1:03:46
Yesterday and for all the young filmmakers if you ever have opportunity to work with people that are more experienced use it to your advantage because there's always something we can learn and and I have people to contribute Don't be afraid I remember one of the directors I worked with on several occasions told me interesting data from his career he told me that when he started as as Director He always needed to leave impression that he knows what he's talking about and you know then security authority that nobody is questioning him which is fine. And then it reached the point when he was on his fifth film that he realized that actually it's perfectly okay to show up and say that you know I don't know what we want to do here but let's come up with something and nobody will take it personally.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:39
Right it's it's insecurity it when you're first starting out.

Suki Medencevic ASC 1:04:42
Yeah, it's this eagerness to show that you are absolutely in control. You are absolutely dominating and.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:48
But that's but that's for any young person.

Suki Medencevic ASC 1:04:52
Yeah, no. So it comes it comes with when it comes with the territory. I think you know, as the director and the level of pressure and responsibility. You need to don't convince yourself that you know what you're doing even though quite often you're clueless. But you know, but if you're smart as some famous director said once like the key, the key to success of, of directory surround to surround himself with talented people and let them do their job.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:22
Correct. Absolutely correct. Suki I won't take up any more of your time. Thank you so, so much for being on the show. You were a lot of great gems and nuggets of information in this in this episode. I think a lot of people get a lot of use out of it. So is there anything else you want to say?

Suki Medencevic ASC 1:05:38
Just go ahead and shoot something.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:41
Never better said my friend. We'll talk soon my friend. Thanks again for being on the show. Thank you. I hope you guys got a lot out of that episode. I know I did. I know cinematography is almost kind of like a black art to a lot of filmmakers. They don't understand what it takes to actually make a good image. And that's one of the problems with a lot of independent films is they just grab a camera and they go shoot something sometimes. And they don't take the time to hire a good dp or understand what good lighting is. And I hope this episode kind of shined a light no pun intended on the importance of cinematography, the art of cinematography and what what it really takes to create amazing, amazing images. So don't forget to head over to filmfestivaltips.com that's FilmFestivaltips.com to get my six secrets on how to get into film festivals for cheap or free. These six secrets help me get into over 500 international film festivals for cheap or free. And please head over to iTunes and give the podcast a honest review. It helps us out dramatically in getting more exposure for the show. And we really appreciate you guys doing that for us. It does help us out dramatically with the rankings on iTunes and help us get more listeners and get the word out on the indie film hustle movement. So thanks again guys. We will be bringing you a great new show next week. Stay tuned, we got some amazing guests coming up. And some couple other things I might be doing in the future with our podcast that you guys might be excited about. So stay tuned and remember keep that hustle going never stopped following your dreams. Talk to you soon.

YOUTUBE VIDEO

LINKS

SPONSORS

  1. Bulletproof Script Coverage – Get Your Screenplay Read by Hollywood Professionals
  2. AudibleGet a Free Filmmaking or Screenwriting Audiobook
  3. Rev.com – $1.25 Closed Captions for Indie Filmmakers – Rev ($10 Off Your First Order)