Script Reader

Alex Ferrari 0:01
I'd like to welcome you to a very special episode of The Bulletproof screenplay podcast today because today we have an unknown script write a script reader by the name of Deep Throat, I wanted to bring in Deep Throat to give him complete an unlimited, to say whatever he is that I say that we're talking about, something like that, something like that. So English, my second language. So I wanted to have someone to come on and be free to talk about everything that goes on behind the scenes in regards to script coverage, script, reading, working with the studios development, all that kind of stuff. And deep throat is definitely that guy. So welcome to the show Deepthroat.

Deepthroat 4:10
Thank you. It's awesome to be here. The freedom that I have right now is dangerous and exciting. I love it. Yes, it is. I I am very excited to give you all the dirt on anything that you'd like.

Alex Ferrari 4:25
Oh, thank you, sir. I appreciate that. So are first of all, how did you and again all these questions yet we'll have to watch ourselves. But how did you get started in the business? As much as you can say so people can find out a little bit about your background.

Deepthroat 4:39
Okay, cool. So I back in the day, once upon a time,

Alex Ferrari 4:45
the 90s

Deepthroat 4:47
Right. I went to college for creative writing loved it. While I was there. I wrote a script that ended up winning. Actually, I wrote two scripts that place first and second and a writing competition I ended up selling those two scripts to a no name, producer, husband, wife, couple in Florida didn't have a manager didn't have an agent didn't understand what weta minimum basics were at all. So they basically wrote me a check and say goodbye and said, thank you very much. Instead of going to law school, I packed my car full of my crap, but my dog in the front seat and drove to Los Angeles, where I used that money to get an apartment and eat for like four months, because it wasn't a whole lot of money. And LA is expensive. And I managed then to intern at as many places as I could using my free time. talent agencies, production companies, you name it, that was before they you had to like claim school credits, like people were looking for free work wherever they could take it. So I got my foot in the door at a lot of these places, mostly mom and pop shops, but also like big agencies as well. So I was on the front lines of like, and they all knew that I was creative writing now. Like, I'd read a script, and I give them feedback on it, whether it was for an actor or for a producer or for Director, whatever, whatever. I was able to give them notes. And they were like, this kid actually knows what he's talking about. So let's give him more work. And eventually, that led to me going into development. And eventually that led to me producing, getting my own work out there in some capacity. And then, you know, reading for production companies and studios, giving them notes on their scripts, doing rewrites, etc. So that's kind of where we're at now. And I also got involved with a couple covered services. Can I say those names?

Alex Ferrari 6:38
I would say no, let's hold those off. Let's keep the names off. But you are working with other coverage you working with? You worked with covered services.

Deepthroat 6:44
Yes. And the goal there is to discover talent, you know what I mean? Like I have some pretty solid relationships in town now. And when I see these writers coming in, who don't who you know, living, for example, from Anchorage, Alaska, and they've got no idea what the film business is like, but they've got some writing talent, we hone that a little bit. You know, I've got one client I've worked with for a year and a half. And she's, you know, last year, she was a semifinalist in the Nichols competition, you know, what I made, and she didn't have any writing experience, her first draft looked like a transcript of a, of a show, you know, what I mean? Our training, you know, how you can download those training. Like, that's what she was going off of, and that's what she thought it was supposed to look like. And then, you know, a year and a half later, she's now you know, in the process of being wrapped, and she's, she's talking to producers about her script. And it's, it's wonderful to see. So and you also work the

Alex Ferrari 7:39
development of it? Yes, yes, I did. What's that process? Like?

Deepthroat 7:45
So I worked in? So that's a great question. So I worked at several different levels, right? Intern, Assistant, Development Coordinator, etc. And I actually, at one point, started my own production company with a couple buddies, and we were I was active CEO of that company, so and we acquired a couple scripts, and it was good. And then we all had creative differences, as as you know, can be expected in

Alex Ferrari 8:09
no way. It's very difficult to hear that everyone works. So well together here in Hollywood.

Deepthroat 8:14
Everybody does. Everybody wants to be so friendly. And just we just want to get stuff made, you know, nothing to do with ego, nothing. Yeah, and, and money has nothing to do with anything.

Alex Ferrari 8:22
Exactly. So,

Deepthroat 8:25
yeah, so the so the process was when I was an intern, it was like, here's some scripts from writers that we already represent, or movies that we've already purchased, like, here's, let me give you, why don't you write up some coverage on me in this latest draft? And we'll see where that goes. So that would be basically what it was, right? So I'd write coverages for scripts that they had already acquired, that they were currently developing, meaning like, they were taking it, they they wanted to make this movie, they had either a pitch that went well, or they had an internal idea that they then went and hired a writer for and this writer is now writing the script, and it's like, their various stages, you know, you get x amount of drafts, and then the ideal thing is you make the movie, right. Alright, so. So from an intern standpoint, it was like, Okay, I don't know what the purpose of this is. But sure, I'll read it. I'll give me notes. And then eventually, I found out the purpose was like, they were testing me, right, like, do your notes match up with my notes? Do we think alike? You know, do you have an understanding of what structure and character development and pacing and dialogue? Do you understand the concepts of what actual screenwriting is and what actual development work entails? And finally, when I had written enough coverages, they hired me as a development assistant, in which case, I was paired with a specific producer who found my notes especially useful and then that went from here's a project that we've already acquired two projects that we potentially could acquire, or here's a book that we're thinking of, but that's going to be released in two months. Like, read the book. Is there a movie there? If so, what kind of movie what do you think you pitch it so that then we can pitch it to a writer as an open assignment? Right? So that happened a couple times, and then when We, when I started working as a development coordinator, it's like, Okay, now we have a list of, of projects in development. And it's like this one's for this along. So now we're acquiring talent, or we're looking for a director, the scripts out for investment opportunity, blah, blah, blah. So there's, when you get to the coordinator, it's sort of more of like project management status, right? You're, you're giving notes on projects, sure. But it's more of like, let's keep things on track for where they're supposed to be at X amount of time, right? Because as we know, time is money. And every time we do a draft, that cost money, we got to take time to wrap the project, etc. So then when you get to the sea level, it's now it's about what do we want to be as a company? Do we want to specialize in sub 1.2? million? Do we want to go the low budget route? Do we want to go medium budget route where we co produce, you know, which would look you know, two to 12 million, depending on who he CO produced it with? And then past that, it's like, do we want to be somebody who gets a first look, deal with the studio or making studio quality movies, whether that be in the or, you know, the Suicide Squads of the world? You know,

Alex Ferrari 11:04
yes, good. Good example.

Deepthroat 11:07
So that's, that's sort of the spectrum of the development ladder. And I'm sure that there are people out there with different experiences I've did that's just speaking from my own. And if there's one thing that I want to tell other people who are aspiring to be developers, or readers or whatever, they're, it's done several different ways at several different companies. That's why there are different companies, you know what I mean? That's why there are different companies that make better movies than others, or there's why some people specialize in making B hot horror movies, as opposed to the Black Panthers of the world. You know, I mean, that's two different styles of readers. That's two different styles of writing. And that's two different styles of development. So each one, I will say to that, though, that I've sat down at multiple companies as an intern, like I said, when I first got out there, I did everything I possibly could, right. There were a number of of, and I'm not promoting this book by any means. But there are a number of companies that basically slapped down the book, save the cat, and they were like, go read this, and then we can talk and it's like, okay. Don't need to read it again. But like, that's why I feel like a lot of these movies nowadays are so formulaic, right, but it's paint by numbers, almost, you know, that doesn't mean that it's easy, and that people do it well, but there is, I mean, you can watch pretty much any movie and the inciting incidents gonna have between 10 and 15 minutes, and the first actor is going to happen between 25 and 30 minutes of the movie, it's just, that's how movies are made. Audiences have been conditioned to do like that. So you kind of have to write and develop a movie that speaks to that, you know,

Alex Ferrari 12:37
at that, but at those huge studio levels, absolutely. Course. Yes. Even when you're in the indie world, even though it's even some of the most successful indies follow it in one way shape, or form

Deepthroat 12:47
into like, the indie market, like, that's where the art is made. I mean, like, let's not kid ourselves, like, like, yes, we see a lot of these huge budget budget movies that are that are really well done and really great movies and they gross a lot of money. But a lot of it has to do with spectacle and a lot of it in a you know, story off in an art often become secondary to revenue and profit. And, and, you know, other things that, you know, that tentpole movies are sort of built on, you know what I mean?

Alex Ferrari 13:19
So when you so when you were doing the, when you were in development, can you tell me a story that you were just like, I can't believe I'm witnessing this. As as much as you can give away without actually giving everything away, you can make a little bit

Deepthroat 13:36
brought about a really good cautionary tale, because I'm still sore about it. And I could tell I could hear it in your voice. So this is this is gonna be funny. And I have another one too. So go for it. So I'll start with the one that's not about me. How about that? So I read this book, right? I read this book, I was a development assistant. I was like, I was in the office every day like 730, my Boston show until 1030. And I was sitting there reading when he got there. Even calling it he didn't like reveal me. Sure. Anyway, so I read this book. And he always told me he was like, if you see something that we could acquire, like, make sure you tell me about it. Like make sure you bring it to my attention. I'm like, Okay, sweet, like for sure. So I'm about 30 pages into this 900 page book. I want I run into his office and I'm like, Dude, we've there's, there's so much here.

Alex Ferrari 14:26
It's Harry Potter, isn't it? Just tell me. Tara Potter's Harry Potter.

Deepthroat 14:29
I just covered Harry Potter. So we, we he was like, Oh, great. Like I finish it and write up the coverage. I'm like, now you should probably start reading this now. He's like, Oh, yeah, cool. And I was like, Dude, you told me if there's something online not to wait. And he was like, okay, you know, all right. Well, I'll see what you got. So I spent hours and hours I read this book. I didn't sleep for three days getting through this book. I wrote up 11 pages of coverage, which obviously young, obnoxious, too long did not read type of shit, right? So, uh huh. So I said handed to him and I'm like, boom. It was like two days later, three days later, maybe. And I'm like, Alright, I sent it to you like, and he's like, okay, good. Cool. I'll read it over the weekend. So a week goes by, I don't hear a damn thing. Another week goes by what happens that fall? Going Friday, the book was optioned for $1.7 million by Warner Brothers. And it will currently be be adapted by a writer who had just come off and asked her when, and I'm like, I told you, I was like, I told him all the dude wrote me back was good instincts, period. That's it. That's all the acknowledgement I got. Oh, good. And I was like, You got to be kidding me, like, so all these guy, all these production companies are out there looking for like the next great piece of material. But it's also worth understanding to from a writer standpoint, like, they're just inundated. You know, I mean, like, he had scripts that were towering, you know, seven, eight stacks that were taller than I was that he had yet to read, you know, and it's just like, good projects slip through the cracks. Taste is often an issue. Art is subjective. So, like, if you get 1500 knows, all you need is one yes. You know what I mean? Like, you could be that diamond in the rough. It's just a matter of somebody seeing, you know what I mean? It was just disappointing that that could have been like, Hey, this guy found this great project. And, you know, we're gonna make a whole bunch of money off of it. And good for him. Now, let's promote him. Now. Let's give him producer credit, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. that ever happened. I'm curious to know what my past would have been like, had he been like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna read that tomorrow reads it and is like, Oh, dang. Like, this kid? He's right. You know what I mean? Like, let's go buy this, let's go. And they didn't have a $1.7 million. But hey, if they've gotten and presumably had, you know, it's not like that deal happened overnight. You know what I mean? In hindsight, it's like, that deal was probably being negotiated Well, before I was even given the book. So you have to take that into account too. But it's just a matter of like, things. It's like, sit around and wait, and then sprint, and then sit around a wait, and then sprint. And that's kind of like the business, you know, I mean, and it's very much a hurry up and wait, kind of kind of deal. So, you know, I would say a lot of these young writers, like, be patient, you know what I mean? Because when it happens, it's gonna happen really freakin fast.

Alex Ferrari 17:15
You know? And what's the second story?

Deepthroat 17:16
So the second story is different company, different company, bigger company. It was a manager slash production company, right? So I was they wrapped writers, they wrapped actors, they did a lot of packaging house, they got a lot of movies made, and they wrecked some pretty awesome people. So I felt blessed to work there, right. And they had this really cool thing where they would bring us all in and we get to talk to the executives for lunch. And like, they really made it so that like we met people, you know what I mean? So we got to know the people that we were working with and working for, which is really cool. One of them happened to be a manager that I really liked. And we bonded over fantasy football. I actually, obviously. And my script that I wrote, it was a it was a pilot. It was I was like, hey, this it's a sports related drama. He likes sports. So I was like, Hey, let me would you be interested in reading this? And he was like, hell yeah, I'll read it, blah, blah, blah. And he actually did, which was awesome. You know what I mean? After he read it, he came back the next week. And he was like, Hey, man, I'm gonna need you to sign the submission, like our submission agreement, because it's technically unsolicited material and you know, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, alright, yeah, cool. What's the worst they can do? I mean, I work here, right, blah, whatever. So then I sign it, and I don't think anything of it. And then I can see where this is going. Yeah, it's a heartbreaker dude. And let's just say my script ended up being the companies that they then shifted, so that there wasn't any legal issues to a different sport and a different, it was a one hour drama, and they put it into not a one hour drama. And let's just say it's, it's a it's it made it.

Alex Ferrari 18:56
Oh, and it was your story. It was my story. So So okay, so there's that there's a lot of look, there's a lot of people out there that always are concerned, especially young writers about they're going to steal my idea. They're going to steal my story. And then I've always heard that, like, look, professionals don't worry about these kinds of things, because you'll get sued. But you that's a perfect example of them, taking it, twisting it a bit. And all of a sudden, they've got it. So showing your opinion is thievery a major issue.

Deepthroat 19:26
And no, I think it was one guy who I trusted when I maybe shouldn't have I'll say this too. He no longer works there. Shocker. I'm sure that's not the first sleazy thing that he's done. So it's a person by person basis, right. Are you a good judge of tat? Are you a good judge of character? Those are the two things that really come up in this business. You know what I mean? So, because there's a lot of sleazy people out there, yes. But I would say that it's a one in 1000 chance that someone's gonna steal your project. So I would say in the big scheme of things, register it. If you want to spend the extra money Get the copyright from the Library of Congress. bucks. Yeah. But but you know what? Don't worry about it as much as, like, I'm the exception, not the rule. You know what I mean? So while I do have some horror stories, right, it also gave me the fact that like, it was a learning it was, you know, it was, my script wouldn't have gotten made, you know what I mean? Like, I'll say that right now, they turned it into what it needed to be, I just wish they would have done it with me, as opposed, which is, which is, again, if I had written the script, largely on company computers with company resources, it was theirs. You know what I mean? Because of those laws. And it's just like, having an understanding of what intellectual property law is, is different than writing a spec script in your basement and sending it out to people. Like, it's completely different. You know, what I mean? Like, don't worry about submitting your script to contest that somebody's going to rip you off. It's not going to happen. You know what I mean? And if so, you have, you have your receipt, you have the person, probably who read it, if it becomes that, at least the company does. I would just say that it's, it's again, I'm the exception, not the rule. And while that is a terrible story, it's it's rare, if ever happens, you know, and it's just my luck that happened to me. So. And that's where I would end it, you know what I mean?

Alex Ferrari 21:14
But I also heard the mythical story of how when Tim Burton was working at Disney, he drew Jack's skeleton and a bunch of the characters from Nightmare Before Christmas, and threw them away in the trash can, someone picked it up and said, these are great. And these are great. And he put them away. And from that point on, it was owned by Disney, because he signed the contract that said, anything they creates, while they're on company, time is theirs.

Deepthroat 21:39
And the same thing works. So where I work now, it's the same situation, right? So it I don't know, should I even say what I do now? Yeah, okay, that's fine. So. So the, it's the same way, right? So if I develop something on, like, I'm even scared because of that process, to like, bring my personal computer in and use the Wi Fi. You know what I mean? Because they could, even though I'm doing it on my computer, I may not even be working at that time. But I'm still using technically their resources, because they're the ones paying for the life, you know what I mean? So it's like, I don't even it gets crazy. You know what I mean? So it's like, if you're going to be working at a company, like a production company, and you're going to be one of these low level employees with thoughts of like, I'm going to get my work out there. Just be cautious. Just understand the game. You know what I mean? Don't do it on your company computer, which, at this point, sounds like common sense, right? It didn't five, seven years ago, you know, right. So I wasn't even thinking that that would be a thing. But it was a learning process. And I've since sold other things. And I'm not, you know, it's not like I'm my dreams were shattered. My, my swan song that I was getting out there. It's like,

Alex Ferrari 22:50
well, one thing I find fascinating about your story in general, is that your your script, you also do, obviously script writing or script reading and script coverage, which we're going to get into but you're also a, a successful screenwriter, you actually sold material you've developed material, you're not just a script, a script reader, or a script, or script, someone who does script coverage, which I think is an assumption that a lot of people, especially screenwriters, young screenwriters think that the script coverage guys are all, you know, 18. Yeah. You know, and there is some truth to that there is there is.

Deepthroat 23:26
So, again, I'm the exception to the rule. All right. So I've actually, I've actually been in talks with, you know, actually, we'll talk about that, when we'll talk about that when you and I sure. But you know, so there are sites out there, you know what I mean, that do have working writers. But to be perfectly honest with you, you don't want to get the coverage notes that you're going to get from a working writer necessarily all the time, because those aren't the people that are going to be reading your material at the production companies. You know what I mean? The first line of defense at any production company is the internet is the development assistance. So if you're writing for the people who are actual writers, you're going to get a vastly different perspective on what the material should be, versus what the 18 to 24 year old fresh out of college doesn't have a effing clue about what good writing is. And it's just hoping to maybe become a producer or a low level employee at this company that they're working for. Those are the people that are reading scripts.

Alex Ferrari 24:26
So let's go so let's go real quick. Let's back up for a second let's go through the process of getting coverage like can you explain to the audience what the process is completely from soup to nuts, so they can get a better idea?

Deepthroat 24:38
Yeah, so are we talking from like a coverage site? Or are we talking coverage from a development company

Alex Ferrari 24:45
I'm gonna go development company because I mean, when you go to a coverage site, like like, you know, my coverage site, or something like that, you're you're working with readers, and they're just you're getting notes from your you know, and trying to help the writer move forward with their process in one way, shape or form? Is that accurate? Yeah. Okay. But now when you're sending it to a development company production company, I would rather get that workflow involved because I think that's a little bit more behind the curtains.

Deepthroat 25:14
Yeah, yeah, it's Yeah, I agree with you. So the big hurdle that you have to get over it, right is getting it there in the first place, you know, because a lot of these companies, it's not like, you can call them up and be like, Hey, I have this script. Do you want to read it? Because they're not even gonna answer your call, you know, get get past the gatekeeper. If you send them to like the info at production company.com email address, it's gonna go straight to the trash, you're gonna get a note that says, hey, we don't accept unsolicited material. By the way, please sign this, your script is not going to be read your blah, blah, blah, you ended up in the trash. So get it. So how do you the question should be first, how do you get there? Right? And you get there by having a friend who possibly works there. You know what I mean? Which means, you know, there's a lot of runners out there, like, oh, I don't have to live in LA. If you're an aspiring writer, chances are you do have to go out there at some point, you don't I mean, you have to you have to do your time. You have to Yeah, everybody has to, you know what I mean? Go Live, go get coffee, go grind it out. That's why I interned you know what I mean, because I got to know these people, who could then get my script into places without me needing representation. Now, the other side of that is if you have a manager, or you have an agent that can say, pick up the phone and be like, hey, Steven Spielberg, do you want to read the script? Oh, yeah. Thanks, John ROM, and then, right. So there's that side of the coin, too. For people who are looking to get, you know, to break into the industry? That one's more rare than the other side of the coin. Right. So my was to pull the curtain back a little bit. You have to understand the level of fear that these developments teachers and assistants have?

Alex Ferrari 26:46
Well, generally, the business in general is

Deepthroat 26:48
fearful. Yeah. Oh, and yes, absolutely. And I think the higher you get up, the higher the stakes are, but those people are already making, presumably a decent amount of money. You know what I mean? It's the people who are making $450 a week who are there from seven o'clock till 10 o'clock at night reading scripts, who are wanting to put their neck out there because they want to get noticed and appreciated and, and promoted, etc. They want to get to that next level. But it's like you get just to like, you get one chance to submit your script and impress a producer. It's the same with being an intern or an assistant. If you bring them garbage, they're going to think of you as a person who enjoys garbage, you know what I mean? So the level of fear at these places and this is why you get 1500 nose is because you have to have you have to find the person who's got the stones, or you know, the the guts.

Alex Ferrari 27:39
Oh, nice Kahunas right to to be like,

Deepthroat 27:43
Hey, boss person, I think I found a really good script. And I think you should read it, you know what I mean? Like,

Alex Ferrari 27:50
okay, because they got one shot. So as much as the writer has the one shot, the script reader has the one shot

Deepthroat 27:55
exactly. And as I think as writers, we forget that, you know what I mean, especially aspiring writers, because it's not just your career that's in jeopardy here. It's it, you start at the entry level, you your entry level script, goes to the entry level person. Now, do you think Jonathan Nolan scripts go to the entry level person, you got to be out your damn mind? All he has to do is pick up the phone and say, hey, it's Jonathan Nolan. You want to read my script? And it's like, oh, we'll buy it. You know, like the page one title. Okay, great. It's got a title page, this is probably going to die. You know, I mean, right. And let's like, so that's a completely different scenario. But the people who aren't on the people who aren't Jonathan, the ones of the world, and the people who maybe are like, second and third tier, Jonathan Nolan's even, they go straight to the development assistance first, you know, and I think that that is something to understand his level of fear and hesitation there. So they're always looking to find what's wrong with your script. They're looking, I worked for a boss once who told me to read a script till it's third mistake, and then throw it in the trash. So that that could have been grammar that could have been spelling, they could have been formatting, which is a big one. Because if you don't know how to format a script, you don't know you don't understand what a script is, you know what I mean? So it was like, we read the script to the third mistake. And if it's in the first 10 pages, throw it away, you know what I mean? If you get past 30, and then you get it, and it's like, you already invested in the story. At that point, you might as well just finish it, you know. But if they make three mistakes in the first three pages of the first 10 pages, like people always say like, it's your first 10 pages that sell you know what I mean? If nobody's gonna watch if you're not hooked in the first 10 pages of a book, or have a have a play, or have a film or have a script, like it's dying, you know what I mean? The same goes for us aspiring screenwriters. So it's like, you have to be sure that that at least the your first 30 pages are absolutely flawless. You know what I mean? And I'm not just talking story, I'm talking formatting spelling.

Alex Ferrari 29:49
Yeah, talk a little bit about that, because that is something that is unknown to me, because I've read so many scripts that I'm like to spell check man, right? Like just for me, it's final draft. You format, this is not difficult anymore, guys. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Deepthroat 30:15
You know what it is? Honestly, it's a pride in one's work. And if, if you're asking somebody to take an hour to three hours out of their day to read your script, you better give them something that's looks like you put a lot of effort into it. You know what I mean? Because if you're trying to get somebody to buy your stuff, but you have, you can't spell the name of your main character, right? Four or five times? Why should we? You obviously didn't care? Why should we? You know what I mean? And I think that's another thing that goes missed on people. So it's like, as as when you pull back the curtain, those are the things that first stand out, right? The first thing that anybody's gonna do when they read your script, as a development assistant is flip to the back page and see how long it is. Yep. They're gonna say, this is going to take me. So if you're submitting 130 page script, they're going to put that on the bottom of the pile and go to the 90 page script, because the in their eyes, it's like, oh, I can go tell my boss that I read four scripts today. So I'm going to do the short ones first and save the long one for the weekend. You know what I mean? So again, something to acknowledge right

Alex Ferrari 31:14
now. But also, I also heard that sometimes you can lie and change the the number count inside. So if you're like at 101, you could put you could just omit numbers in the middle of the script to make it look like it's a 90 pig script when it's actually really, I've never heard of that. You've never heard I've seen that.

Deepthroat 31:34
That's hilarious. I've probably read scripts where I was just flying through it so fast that I didn't realize that there was that for page four.

Alex Ferrari 31:43
They just skip a page and you just forget about it. And but that's it. I'm not suggesting anyone does that. But I've heard of it. So I didn't know if you've ever apparently worked because you've never seen one.

Deepthroat 31:54
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Which is, which is an interesting thing. But also it's like I it's pretty easy to tell when you've got a 90 page script sitting next to 130 page script. Well, then if there's

Alex Ferrari 32:03
yeah, there's only a handful of pages you could cut off with that technique. Yeah. Yeah. Five, six pages, Shane, like

Deepthroat 32:10
101 to 1909 is gonna break. If you're really hiding pages at that point, like, yeah, like, I think you've got bigger problems.

Alex Ferrari 32:18
You know, you're absolutely right, if you're exactly if you can't shave eight pages off, or 10 pages off, you're going to close,

Deepthroat 32:25
you know, and that's, so my manager, and my agents are very good about allowing me, especially my early drafts, to write what I want to write. But then, you know, when we're about to go to market, they're very good about being like, listen, you're at 117 right now, which is fine. But like, go through the script, again, take a couple days off, get drunk, you know, maybe smoke a joint, like, do do whatever it is that you need to do to get out of the writer mind frame and get into the reader mind frame. And think to yourself like, this is your final draft short, but what absolutely doesn't have to be there. And undoubtedly, I end up cutting four or five scenes, which brings it from a 117 to a 108 or a 104. You know what I mean? Because it's so it ends up being like, no, yes, I love this sandwich. It was Ernest Hemingway that says, like, go back through, delete all your good lines. See if the story still works, or something like that. Yeah, something like that. It's like, it's so true. You know what I mean? Because we as writers, we like get attached to certain things that as writers we love, but it's like readers, it's like, okay, this is just more for them to get through to get to the next point. You know what I mean? And I hate to say that, because that's where a lot of the art comes in. You know what I mean?

Alex Ferrari 33:42
Well, no, it was Hemingway or Mamet that said, writing is easy. All you have to do is sit at the typewriter and bleed.

Deepthroat 33:48
That's a Yeah, that was a Hemingway. Yeah, yeah, that's Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's so true. You know what I mean? And it's even believed even more, because he's also saying writing and after all, is rewriting, you know, I mean, so he's, he's a big proponent of like, Sure, bleed, but then go back and cut yourself open a few more times. And when you don't die, that's, that's the script of the story.

Alex Ferrari 34:11
It is, it is it's quite brutal sometimes.

Deepthroat 34:15
To be really diligent, because those are the types of things that is development assistance. If you go through and they, they see that you've got like, eight scenes that don't necessarily, like if you've got a savvy reader, you know, you're lucky, but you're also in a spot where it's like, you better be on out. Yeah, you your script better be on because this guy is gonna be or this girl is gonna be, you know what I mean? So it's like, she's got a great perspective of what a good script is. So you're better you better fit the mold, you know what I mean? And realize too, that like when you pull back the curtain i, this is I think I speak for every development or reader person, regardless of you're in, you know, a major studio or a small production company, you're looking for reasons to say no, you know what I mean? Like from, from the title page, the end of the script, you're looking for reasons to say no. And protect your little area of comfortability that you've built it your internship or your development assistant jobs. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like, you're looking for reasons to say no, because no doesn't put you risk, you know? Uh, yes. Is immediately when you like, roll the dice at the craps table, you know what I mean? So, I think from and, Dude, I gotta tell you, I read some fantastic scripts, as well, that like, didn't fit in line with what our production companies mandate was at that time. You know what I mean? So even though we had, we've maybe had won an Oscar for a drama movie, we were focusing on low budget comedy. So while I've got this great script that I would love to recommend, because yeah, when you look at our, our, our IMDB page of scripts that we've done, it's like, yeah, that would definitely fit into the mold, but not our current mandate. You know what I mean? So like, understanding what a production company's current mandate is, and understanding that that's fluid and changing. Whereas like, you know, most production companies, if your horror, your horror, you know what I mean? Like your blue house, your blue house, you could sort of have a mandate. It's like, we're looking for female led horrors, or we're looking for, you know, paranormal type of stuff or, you know, purge just did really great. Can we find our own purge? You know, what I mean, it's like, they think like that, you know, what I mean? Like, trend followers, writers like to think of themselves as trendsetters, where do you find the balance of fitting into what these production companies are trying to do moving forward in the future? And the truth is, is that a lot of them don't have a clue what they want? What

Alex Ferrari 36:37
do you agree right now, how many production companies around town are looking for the next Crazy Rich agent agents?

Deepthroat 36:44
Oh, I think I think every everyone, right,

Alex Ferrari 36:47
everyone right now is looking for that script.

Deepthroat 36:50
But three years ago, whenever when that was going out to market, nobody would have Crickets. Crickets, you know, I mean, it's the same way the Stranger Things I don't know. And our story, you're wrong. I I've only heard it secondhand, but they got like, reject everybody, every network. Every right. Yep. Look, they're like, We don't understand the tone. We don't understand the tone. Like why are these kids like swearing and stuff like that, like, we just don't is as an adult adult show his kid show it's fantasy. It's

Alex Ferrari 37:16
reality could not deal with it. They just couldn't deal with it. They couldn't wrap

Deepthroat 37:20
their heads around it. And now guess what they're doing? Everybody wants their own Stranger Things? You know, of course. So like, if you think if these companies like if you live in LA, and you meet a producer at a bar, and you're getting drunk next to the pool or something like that, he's like, oh, yeah, you know, we're looking for female led crime thrillers that are four quadrant. And you're like, yes. Okay, I've got one of those. You know what I mean? Like, say, Yes, obviously, you know what I mean, right? Even if it doesn't fit all those bills, because they're not, they don't know what they want, they know what they think they want. And you have to convince them that what they think they want is actually what you have, you know what I mean? But isn't it just, there's just so many hurdles that you have to get through, you know,

Alex Ferrari 38:06
but there are those few those are those few producers and companies who are ahead of the curve. And I think 99% of the rest of the town is chasing the

Deepthroat 38:16
chasing. Yeah, I agree. I agree. 100%? Because those

Alex Ferrari 38:20
because the ones the first ones through the wall are always bloodied.

Deepthroat 38:23
Yeah, exactly. And and, and I think to that, like, it's a great observation to make, because those are also the companies who may not be around in five years, you know what I mean? Correct? Because, because they were willing to take chances. And I think it goes back to what we were talking about before, which is like, why do we, why are we risking our comfortable ball here to potentially be out of business in five years, because we went and bought three scripts that we're not going to be able to get cast or financed or packaged, or in front of screen, you know, in front of viewers, you know what I mean? So it's like, I, everybody wants to call themselves a producer. You know what I

Alex Ferrari 39:01
mean? Oh, everyone's a producer. And everyone. Yeah, and

Deepthroat 39:05
it's just like I, you know, it comes back to what my first story, which is, are you a good judge of character? Are you good judge of talent, pair yourself up with the people that you trust that you work with that, you know, and before you start slinging your script around to like, everybody in their mother trying to get in front of as many people, it's not about getting it. It's not about a numbers game. It's about the right people. Because if you get in front of the right people, like I've got a buddy that works. He's a very successful agent, and he works in a very successful company. He he came out a couple years after I did, I knew him through a friend we've since become great friends. Even though he read some of my he actually read that that script that I was talking about, he was one of the guys that read it and he was like, Dude, this is a fucking great script. Like, I want you to change this, that and the other and then all that shit went down and it was like dude, don't worry about it. Work on Next one. And he was very good about like keeping, he wasn't even my agent. And he was really good about like keeping me more like, focused, you know? He says, And he was like, Dude, it's not going to be the only good thing you ever write. You know, it's just the first thing, first good thing you ever wrote. So, keep writing and just know that this door's always open. And even if I say no, even if it's not for me, I'm not closing the door on you. And that's the type of people that slider should look for. You know what I mean? Because you build the bond first, I didn't meet this guy, knowing that he was going to become this great agent, I met this guy, because, again, ironically, we bonded over football, he went to a big football school, I went to a big football school, my buddy, who I knew from high school, went to that school, we were rivals, we were at a we were at shit with Barney's Beanery, watching college football, I get I get introduced this guy who's a low level intern at the point at that point, and I'm like, Dude, I like you. Let's hang out, let's get beers. And we became friends. And as he climbed the ladder, so did I. And even to this day, if I wanted to fire my current agent, I'd know that I had an open door at his because I know that I could send him stuff. And that's the type of people that you need to be looking for. It's not the it's not the numbers, it's the quality is quality, not quantity. So make the relationships with people. Keep those relationships up. I think if you come out here, looking for money, and looking to network and meet as many people as you possibly can to help you, you're going in with the wrong mentality, you go in knowing that like, you want to make this place a home, you want to make this business a home, you want to make these people, your friends. And that's so rare to find in LA. And that's why so many people turn tail and run after five, six years, because they can't afford it. And they know that their yoga job isn't gonna make them enough money to survive and raise kids, you know,

Alex Ferrari 41:45
who do Uber job, every time I get into an Uber, I always go, how's the script gone? I've actually done that a few times. And they go, how do you know, you know? Are you a producer? I'm like, No, I'm

Deepthroat 41:57
not. Sorry, but I guarantee you, they said, if you said that you were they'd be like, Oh, well, do you mind if I get your email address? It's like, that's not a relationship built on trust and integrity is really built on wants and needs and unrealistic expectations.

Alex Ferrari 42:11
That's a great, great, that's a great way to put it. It really is. Because I always tell people like if you if you met someone at a party, you wouldn't just jam your script in their face. Yeah, you would meet them, you introduce yourself, if you're if you're a human, if you introduce yourself and go, Hey, how are you? And I always tell people, you always ask them what you can, what can I do for you? How can I be of service to you, then that's a great way to start a relationship and start building

Deepthroat 42:39
truly is and you know, and even like so, even outside of that, you know what I mean? Where it's like, it's like, Hey, you we have something on common ground to bond over? You know what I mean? Maybe they're excited about going to see Crazy Rich Asians. And so are you. It's like, dude, let's go together. Right? You know what I mean? Let's go together. Let's go talk. You know what I mean? Like, build a relationship up from the ground, just like you would if you were moving to, you know, Podunk Ville, wherever. Yeah. And I mean, it's like, how are you going to meet people, you know, what I mean, you're going to get involved in the community, you're going to do things that the community likes to do, you're gonna find common ground. And maybe I have a different perspective, because I moved around a lot as a kid. So whenever I go, it's like, when I was going to a new place, it was like sports, it was clubs. It was it was, you know, community, you know, meetings, whether it be churches or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, that's how our family integrated in the community and you have to go out with the mentality of like, I'm going to integrate into the community first. And you're going to find that like, if you go out there with genuine intentions to like, meet people, instead of meet people that are going to help you. The perspective is it may not seem like it, but the perspective is drastically different. And so are the results.

Alex Ferrari 43:55
Amen, preach, sir, preach

Unknown Speaker 43:59
my candles.

Alex Ferrari 44:02
Now, as going back to being a script reader, what is the biggest mistake you see screenwriters make?

Deepthroat 44:09
So every I've met a woman, changed my life, changed my perspective, really, on what it meant to be a writer. And granted at this point, I'd already sold two scripts, blah, blah, blah. You know, got my, my creative writing degree. I got my MFA in screenwriting, I got all this stuff, right. And I went to the WNBA. And this woman, I'm not gonna say her name. She was giving a talk. They're super successful. And she was like, you know, everybody around town has kind of come up with that next great idea when they should be coming up with the next great character. And that really spoke volumes.

Alex Ferrari 44:47
Let's see. That's deep, but yet simple.

Deepthroat 44:50
It's so simple, right? And it's like, I'm sitting there in the audience and all of a sudden, it's like, light bulb going off and like I'm getting tingling feelings in my feet and my toes. wasn't I'm like, oh my god like she's so right i mean you think about it like like madmen great great great show but is a great character Breaking Bad Breaking Bad sopranos Walter White sopranos like all of these great shows all the even movies like like looking at Little Miss Sunshine all it is a great character you know I mean that's filled with great characters William Wallace in Braveheart Braveheart wouldn't be Braveheart without that character. You know, I

Alex Ferrari 45:31
mean, and I think yeah, Jones, of course, Indiana Jones,

Deepthroat 45:34
Indiana Jones like it, it complete. And that's the, that's the biggest thing that I feel like writers don't understand is that they're trying to write for the spectacle and not for the character, you know what I mean? And he can, he can, I mean, I was about to say structure, because they don't understand structure. And, and, and I think that's one of the most important things to learn, right. But really, when you come down to it, when you approach the premise, or the idea that your structure comes later, right, from simply from an idea standpoint, like, if I don't care about your character, or I don't know what they want, or what they're after, you could have the most structured story in the world, it's not gonna make sense, because I need to know exactly who this character is motivations, right? what their goals are, why they're working towards it, and subconsciously, why do I give a shit? You know what I mean? And that, that, I think, is a lot of what, you know, a lot of these scripts that I cover, don't seem to understand, because I've given the note. I mean, I could probably give this note on every single script that I see coming in from a first time writer, which is decent story, it functions, but like, why do I care? You know, and I'm gonna care when I care about the character when you when you've created a good enough well rounded character. And I mean, that character could exist in a tentpole movie, it can exist in a micro budget $100,000 film, I don't care. That note applies to every single budget and genre that there is if you don't care about the characters if they're not making. So I call it the Cha Cha Cha has of storytelling, right? It's it's a character that is approached with challenges. And then in the end, they change, you know what I mean? It's like those three simple things, the Cha Cha Cha, character challenges changes, if their script isn't built on those three simple things. It's, it's just not I'm not gonna care, you know. And I think crafting a really solid character with clear motivations and a clear flaw that we can both sympathize with and root for that that's when magic starts to happen. structure it any way you want at that point, because at this point, I care about the character, I'll spend 20 pages in their normal world because I'm interested. You know what I mean?

Alex Ferrari 47:47
I mean, look, I mean, I watched I watched the last Indiana Jones film purely because of Indiana Jones. Right? The script was

Deepthroat 47:54
right, and you make these good characters, and it does it creates its own franchise. I mean, like it they call it, what is it the Spielbergian way of crafting a character or introducing a character like he does it so wonderfully? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And Paul Thomas Anderson, what am I mean? I want to clarify, it's not that you have to like the main character, no, no, activated by the main character. So like, There will be blood as a great example of that first seven minutes of that movie. Both I mean, the script is a little less, right. And if you look at the final draft of the script, like it's a little it's different than what you see in the movie, but the premise of it is the same, right? This this guy, who is relentless, and unbelievably motivated to get rich, you know what I mean, to the point where he drags himself, leg broken, and all to go turn in the little chunk of silver that he has to start his takeover

Alex Ferrari 48:46
of the world? Basically, yeah.

Deepthroat 48:49
And I didn't like I knew from like, the instant that this guy was on screen, I was like, This guy is a maniac. But I can't take my eyes off of him. You know what I mean? And David Lewis did a great job. But even on the screen, when you are even in the script, when you read it on the page, it's like, this is a such a well crafted character. You know what I mean? And know the summation. I don't want to spoil it or anything to know what that person goes through. You have the script. It's like, you don't have to like him to care about the movie. You know what I mean, and to care about what happens.

Alex Ferrari 49:17
So right, Joe Pesci in Goodfellas. I mean, he's a psychopath. But whether you're like, you cannot take your eyes off of him, or Jack Nicholson and the departed, you just can't take your eyes off.

Deepthroat 49:31
Yep. I mean, and that, and that, to me is like when I enter into a script, like, I get really excited when I read a shitty script with a fantastic character because like, they're miles and miles ahead of somebody who's got a a good script with a bad character. You know what I mean? Yes, yes. Like that. I mean, you can sell, you can sell a bad script with a great character. You can't sell a decent script, a functional script with a bad character. It's just not gonna happen.

Alex Ferrari 49:59
Right now. I just actually just started watching the Americans for the fun if you guys seen that show, have you seen the show?

Deepthroat 50:04
Graham Yost is probably my favorite writer ever him and I really love Taylor shared I'm really into Taylor Sheridan right now but like,

Alex Ferrari 50:11
but this I mean, I just we're literally in season one my wife and I, this is the summer we you know, our shows haven't started yet. And I'm like, This is so well, the characters are are so well crafted you hate you love. They go back and they go for them. Like we're six, seven episodes in. I'm like, There's six seasons of this. I can't wait. Yeah, it's so well done when you put it but it begins with character. It always began with character, at least with this show. And with most of the shows that are great. It's always character. And you're right, you can you if you have a good character with a bad script, you could turn a bad script into a good script with some other work with it. I can work but to create a good character is much, much more difficult.

Deepthroat 50:55
Like, so we just watched justified. Yeah, my wife and I, I'd seen it before she had again, great character, right. Like it's, it's say what you want about the show? I mean, I think it's a great show. But like, if you read Elmore Leonard's short story that it's based off of that is all about character. You know what I mean? That that translated well into the actual show, and obviously, character is more. What do you say? Like it's put on a higher pedestal when you're watching a TV show? Because it's built on characters, right? Like the stories, whatever. It's not supposed to end his stories and television are all about keeping it going. Right? Whereas a film, like let's end it properly, right, right, right. So the reason we keep coming back, especially to like procedural shows, like NCIS, for example, it's like, we keep coming back because we love these Knossos, these Eva's these, you know, like be that we just love these people. And it's like, it's, it's, it's pretty outstanding. And

Alex Ferrari 51:51
yeah, I get you. And no, no, absolutely. Without me character and structure. I think both of those two, those are the two things characteristic first, and then you got to get that structure. You have to you have to have a good, good clothes to put on the character, if you will.

Deepthroat 52:07
Yeah, yeah. And I actually made a mistake earlier, the Americans is not by Graham Yost. But

Alex Ferrari 52:12
no, it is. It is enough for guys to Judge Joe Wiseman. Yes, yes,

Deepthroat 52:15
yes. But but they're very similar. You know what I mean, especially in the way that they currently portray their characters. And I I feel bad that I messed that up.

Alex Ferrari 52:23
But it's, it's all good. It's no one knows who you are. So it's fine.

Deepthroat 52:29
Sorry, Graham. Sorry. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 52:32
So in general, well, first of all, can you give us any tips? On what get that? What would catch the attention of a script reader? For that low level? I think we kind of touched on it. But is there any specific thing besides having a great character?

Deepthroat 52:47
So I feel like a lot of is just to make the readers job? Easy. You know what I mean? So it's like in in when you're reading a novel, like, you can spend six pages describing the color of the lamp? Yeah, yes, in a script, you just say the lamp is yellow. And if that doesn't matter to the scene that the lamp is yellow, then get it the eff out of there. I mean, it's like, so one of the first things that I'll see on page one, which is like, if it doesn't have to be there, it shouldn't be. And I can tell right away, whether or not the reader or the writer is going to be showing us is going to be showing us the thing, the information rather than telling us you know, and leaving enough room, and acknowledging the fact that this is a collaborative endeavor, you know, what I mean? Like you shouldn't direct the scene you shouldn't have, you know, close up here. Really good scripts, describe those moments in a way that they don't have to sit there and tell you that you're reading a script, a dolly shot in, yeah, like, take that out, you know what I mean? Like, if you can tell right away, so that would be one thing that I would say is like, don't direct the script, don't director writers understand formatting, grammar, spelling, take pride in your work, and then do a good job of making us care about your character in the first three pages, you know what I mean, or at least make it interesting enough, or fascinating enough to where we can't take our eyes off the script. And there's a trick that my manager actually taught me, which is, uh, you know, it's not just about hooking them into the first couple pages, right, if you can hook them to the point where you leave something at the bottom of page nine, that makes them turn to the page, top of page 10, and then leaving something at paid the bottom of page 10, that forces them to turn the page. It's super hard, right? But once you start getting into the final drafts of your script, like it should flow like that, you know what I mean to where it's like, they can't stop turning the page, you know? But it's super, it's, it's very, very difficult to get on that microscopic level. But if you're submitting a script to a production company, you should have thought about those microscopic things. It's very easy to tell when a writer has or hasn't simply, you know, grammar, spelling, formatting, you know what I mean? So make sure that those are the those are the things But right off the bat and if you've got 130 page script like, I hope it comes with a two page treatment or something like that, because they're gonna get too long did not read. Well,

Alex Ferrari 55:10
let's Tarantino's names on it. Sorry, well, unless Tarantino's name is on it.

Deepthroat 55:15
Yeah, exactly. I mean, Jonathan, Nolan's Dark Knight was like, what, like 152 pages or something like that.

Alex Ferrari 55:21
But it's Jonathan Nolan and Chris Allen. And it's okay. And I

Deepthroat 55:25
get that a lot with new writers. And they're like, oh, but so and so did it this way. It's like, Yeah, but so and so made a shitload of money in the last. And so it's like, you're not, you're not so and so

Alex Ferrari 55:37
you're given? Is it fair to say that you're given a lot of leeway in this business? Once you start making a lot of money?

Deepthroat 55:43
Well, 100%, you could do. And that's why I tell I'll tell young writers too. It's like go read scripts, right? And it's like, but I'm going to tell you right now, don't describe characters like they do. Don't format like they do. Don't do that kind of stuff. Because they've earned the right to misspell their character's name. They've earned the right to have formatting errors. You know what I mean? They've earned that right? So you haven't. So you have to play by those rules before you either a are too lazy to break them or to care, or you are established enough to where you can break them and break them. Well, you know, so. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's another thing. It's like. Don't compare yourself to successful writers just yet. Oh, God, I know, I get that all the time. Like, I don't like okay, good lord. I also hate when people use the word we in scripts. I know a lot of people do it, especially professional writers, and especially writer, director types. It's just like, it just reminds you that you're reading a script, you don't say we see this or we see that? Yeah. And at the very basic level, what you're trying to do is you're trying to absorb the reader, especially a reader who doesn't really have a clue about screenwriting, or storytelling. Like you're supposed to absorb them into the story as much as possible. So your imprint on the script should be as minuscule and invisible as possible. And when you start bringing in we, we know you're a real person, we know this is written by somebody. It's not just a story that we're, you know, swimming around. And it's, it's a, it's a script, and I think if you can make like, Brian Delfield does a really good job of making you forget that you're reading a script. Have you have you read any of his

Alex Ferrari 57:18
I have not read any script? Can you tell the audience who he is and what he's done? Yeah,

Deepthroat 57:22
he just had a movie coming out called the babysitter.

Alex Ferrari 57:25
Oh, oh, yeah. The one by MC G. Yeah,

Deepthroat 57:29
yeah, he has a so Brian Duffield. I think somebody told me this. I don't quote me on it. Don't. Don't tell me if it's right or wrong. I don't even really want to know. But I like telling the story that he sold more spec scripts or had more time. He's one of the more successful spec writers over the last like five or 10 years.

Alex Ferrari 57:47
I think so. I think Astra house has that.

Deepthroat 57:50
Yeah. But it's like it's like a you read their script. It's a I you can find it online. Good. I'm in fact, I'm going to do it right now. The babysitter, it's like it's, it's okay, there it is. It's 93 pages. The first line is interior nurse's office day call is 12 years old and losing his mind. That's the first line.

Alex Ferrari 58:15
That's a good symbol.

Deepthroat 58:17
You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like, you don't have to overthink it. You don't have to over describe it. And I love Brian Duffield writing because he lets the he lets you make the picture in your own head just as if, like, you're I had a I had a writer once told me that what you're writing is actor bait. You know what I mean? And it's so true, right. But it's also director bait. You know what I mean? So if you're over describing your scenes that just takes away from the creative side that a director, the creative imprint that a director can put on to the, to the script, right? So it's like, the less you can tell the more leeway you can give to those other creative elements that are brought on to make to bring your script to life. Like do it. You know what I mean? So like, I think less is always, always, always, always more and it's so difficult to like, get that to come across people because they're like, what does that mean? And it's like, if it doesn't absolutely have to be there. Don't let it be there. And Duffield is so good at it. And he's, he's always properly formatting stuff. And even though he's an established writer, you can tell like, he doesn't shortchange the other like, two pages down. There's another wonderful description. Cole is waiting for the school bus besides Melanie, another 12 year old also his neighbor also definitely not a potential love interest for coal. So whoever told you that is an idiot and a liar and loser and it interrupts the conversation with her dialogue. So it's like, it's like you've seen it happen. You know what I mean? You has a voice? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, like, I go read Brian Duffield scripts that he's a fantastic writer as well. The guy deserves a lot more credit.

Alex Ferrari 59:51
Now than we asked you also, can we please just put out there in the universe to people stop using 75 cent words in script in screenplays. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. Is that Is that a big is that a big? No, no, they want to prove to you that they have to have a complete grasp of the English language and want to prove to you how smart they are by using words that no one has ever used in conversation.

Deepthroat 1:00:26
You again, it comes back. Yes, short answer your question? Absolutely. It again comes down to knowing who's reading your script, right? If you have to send a 19 year old out to go get a dictionary. You know what I mean? So it's like, Have you ever read the alien script? Yeah, well, I

Alex Ferrari 1:00:44
love that script. Walter. Walter helps amazing interior engine

Deepthroat 1:00:47
room, empty, cavernous. That's it. Like straight up. That's, that's it, like jammed with instruments, all of them idle console chairs for to empty. It's like, Yes, that's what you need to be doing. Like, paint the picture, build it up, there's a

Alex Ferrari 1:01:02
patina of the walls can be smelled and like, you know, do know that that's a book. That's a book.

Deepthroat 1:01:10
Exactly. That's no your medium. You know what I mean? And then like, a lot of writers I see too, especially young writers. And I see a lot of this with writers who, and this always gets me where it right where it's like on the title page, it'll say written by, you know, John Stevens, based on a book by John Stevens. Like, oh, God, this is gonna be rough, because it's Jon, snow literary background, you know, what I mean, a prose writing background? How is that going to translate? And sometimes I've been surprised there have been a couple writers who have surprised me. But for the vast majority, it's like, yikes, you know what I mean? Like, you're basically copying and pasting certain elements of description from your book into the script format. And dialogue editor, like there was one writer who I could tell was copying pasting dialogue directly from like his Microsoft Word document into the final draft document, because a lot of the dialogue like he forgot to delete the quotation marks like parts. So I was like, Oh, this is great. Or it would be like said eagerly.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:10
At the end of the dialogue,

Deepthroat 1:02:12
oh, man alive. Okay. So note that I'll say about that is like, if you can't see it on the screen, it shouldn't be in the script. And there are exceptions to that, especially when like, describing a character for instance, like, I feel like you can do a little bit of editorializing in those moments, to give a bigger shape to like who that person is, you know, or like Shane Black had a really good one where it was like, he's always really good at describing things, right. But he also has a voice and at this point, he was Shane Black. So he wrote something. I can't remember what it was. It was like, it was like, a huge penthouse, the type I'm gonna own with this fucking movie. So

Alex Ferrari 1:02:47
yeah, yes, that is so shameful. Introduce yourself.

Deepthroat 1:02:51
Like if you can, if you can inject yourself into the script in that way. That's different than what we were talking about earlier, which is like, Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I

Alex Ferrari 1:03:00
mean, yeah, there's I have heard of God. I've heard of screenwriters, I've read screenplays that have that kind of stuff. Like they'll put a little note like, and this is for the script reader, and blah, blah, blah, like those. But they're at an established point. They're an established point, and they can play with a medium a little bit, but Shane Black is a perfect example. You read lethal weapon you we kiss me? I was gone. Kiss me. Long Kiss. Goodnight. Yeah. Any of those? I'm dying to see predator, the predator. I can't wait to see that. But he's amazing in the way he writes. You're like, okay, I get it. But he is that kind of writer. You're absolutely right. It's like, the penthouse. Like after I saw the script.

Deepthroat 1:03:40
Yeah, he's got a voice. You know what I mean? He's got a voice that doesn't interfere with the story. In fact, it does the opposite, where it's like, I want to see what else this guy's got to say shit. You know what I mean?

Alex Ferrari 1:03:50
Because if you have the balls, if you have the balls to do that, and again, I wouldn't suggest have no

Deepthroat 1:03:54
time to go out right like Shane, battle black for sure.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:58
It's been done. It's been tried many times before and it's fail. It's like when people try to look after Pulp Fiction came out. Forget everybody was trying to write chapters. Everybody's writing chapters. Everybody was writing chapters. Everybody was trying to be Yeah, that was that was that movie that came out of how to die in Denver. What to do in Denver when you're dead. And there was like a bunch of rip off pulp fiction movies. Right afterwards, Pulp Fiction course.

Deepthroat 1:04:20
There's gonna be a whole bunch of crazy rich Asian movies that are but you can't

Alex Ferrari 1:04:23
write like Tarantino, I always tell people like you can't direct like Fincher, you can direct like Nolan or Kubrick, you could be inspired. Absolutely. But at the end of the day, they're going to do them much better than you could ever do it.

Deepthroat 1:04:37
One of my one of my best friends is a very, very talented writer. And he doesn't write he does write scripts, but he mostly writes prose. published the works, you know what I mean? And he was like, when I first started out writing, he was like, I was trying to I would read a book by somebody that would really impress me. And then I would go and try to write like them and he was like, it took me years to get something published because I was Isn't writing for who I am, or what I want to say I was writing what I thought people wanted to read. And I think that that you know what I mean? It goes back to like, don't don't think that you are submitting, writing that somebody else absolutely wants to read. Like, don't go, don't approach it like that approach. If you're starting from that place, you're already making mistakes, you know what I mean? It's gonna take you a long, long time to figure out that you're making mistakes. And hopefully, like, you have a really stable job at Starbucks, because you're going to need it, you know?

Alex Ferrari 1:05:31
No, and that advice goes exactly for directors as well. Because I mean, I've made those mistakes. I have my Robert Rodriguez Quentin Tarantino film, that I tried to make that look just like theirs and tried to show everybody Oh, hey, look how cool I am. And it didn't work out. Because I wasn't using my own voice. And well, I didn't find I didn't. I didn't know who I was. Yes, yet. And I know that sounds pretentious as fuck. But it's true.

Deepthroat 1:05:55
It doesn't though. It doesn't because it makes so much sense. For those for those of us out there who actually did that, you know, who who tried to write like the people that inspired us only to find out like, like, okay, maybe certain elements of them work for me, but I'm not going to be successful until I find my own. And it Hey, writers out there. It's gonna take you years to figure that out. Do it is to keep writing. And for you directors, the only way to do it is to keep directing the garbage so that you can figure out what you like to do you know what I mean? You can figure out your inner Spielberg, without having Spielberg attached to it. You know what I mean?

Alex Ferrari 1:06:32
I mean, JJ, JJ Abrams, who is is probably close to Spielberg as your path today, but JJ movie is a JJ movie. Yep. No question. I mean, you could smell that you can, even when he did Super Eight,

Deepthroat 1:06:46
was gonna say Super Eight was like, Oh my gosh, it was literally

Alex Ferrari 1:06:50
like if Spielberg was reincarnated. Yeah, but it still had his flavor. Absolutely. It was not a rip off. It was not a rip off at all. So that's why those movies are successful. Now before before we finish because I mean, we could talk for hours, I can say I don't know. Right. And I appreciate your time. I appreciate your time, Deep Throat. Um

Deepthroat 1:07:13
give me some nuggets. You know, you've

Alex Ferrari 1:07:15
dropped a lot of stuff. Honestly, this this podcast, I'm going to recommend anytime I made a screenwriter, I'm like, you're going to need to listen to dethrone screenwriting about the bottom. Yes. No, no, no, it's because you're showing you have given. I mean, a lot of the stuff I knew from being in the business, but you don't talk about it. But I definitely don't have your perspective. Because you're you've walked, you walked in places I haven't walked. So it's fascinating to see the inside story about other things that I didn't have access, I didn't know about. And it's the truth and you are completely liberated to say whatever the hell you want to

Deepthroat 1:07:48
say. I know when you when you told me, we're just gonna do it anonymous, I was like, that completely changes my brochure, I was just so sweet. Because it's like, now I get to actually talk about the stuff that matters. You know what I mean? Like, I get to tell these young writers or even established writers who are kind of hitting like a LOL, you know what I mean? Cuz that happens to happens to me. I think it's super important to just understand and be reminded of what you're up against, you know what I mean? And, and, and knowing that it's a fluid process, you know, what I mean? Like the end. Another thing to keep in mind, too, is like, the turnover at these places is insane. God is insane. So like, you could submit a draft to an assistant who doesn't put it up, but then that assistant could go on to work at another company who then it does work, or the newest system was hired and you can resubmit to that person inside knowledge of like, okay, the turnovers happening, like or, or, you know, what was it like? Legendary, legendary, like, revamp their entire executives, you know what I mean, I had a script in there that they had passed on. And I didn't even get an acknowledgement of the first around. They had the turnover my agents, resubmitted it, and they were like, oh, let's get a meeting. You know what I mean? Like, like, the new regime is willing to meet me but the old regime things on garbage.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:08
It's a lot. It's a lot of so much politicking. And it is and it's just it's a it's a game of, of humor. It's a human game of personalities and psychological psychology. It's, it's so more complex than what people think it is like, Oh, you submitted to a company and oh, it doesn't get in. You don't get in? No, this is a game. It's chess,

Deepthroat 1:09:30
basically. Yep. Yep. And I think there are certain ways and we talked about this already, there are certain ways to go about it that make you seem more genuine. And I think that if you can find if you're more genuine, you're gonna be you're gonna find people that are more genuine, and then you don't have to worry about anything else. You know what I mean? Those doors are gonna be open for you. You can write a script that isn't that great, but like, the genuine nature of that relationship is going to leave that door open. You know what I mean? And that's what I feel like a lot of writers are gonna be surprised I think to hear because Because I think even when I was coming up, I was told by people that it's like you have one shot with these people. And while there's a lot of truth to that, there's also the truth. It's like, yes, with the people that you don't know, you know what I mean. But a lot of what you need to do when you come out here, and you should come out here is, like, just go out and meet people and be genuine. Like, be yourself. Don't be Oh, I'm the aspiring writer and, like, tell myself that, like, I'm the writer, that's gonna be the next big thing. It's like, No, dude, go talk to somebody about your fantasy football team. That's what's gonna get you in the door.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:32
You know what the funny thing is, though, when you say that, you have to remember that it is so difficult to be yourself at every stage of growth in your life. That's true. And only because you know, both you and I are in similar vintages. As far as age is concerned. We take it for granted now because I don't I am who I am. And if you don't like it, go off yourself. I just don't care. Yeah. But it took 20 years to get to this place in my life.

Deepthroat 1:11:04
And a lot of it was the last What 1015.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:09
I want to say the last go through all

Deepthroat 1:11:10
of that to figure out that, okay, this is how it's done, you know, and then business I am.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:15
And then the second I decided to finally just be myself. All the doors swung open. Yep, everything's clicking, everything starts clicking the second you are yourself, and you're comfortable within your own skin, which is has less to do with the craft of screenwriting, and more about your own personal development, but it is part of the equation.

Deepthroat 1:11:33
Yep. Yeah. And it's funny that you say that because one of my best friends successful writer, really, I mean, dude, this kid got talent out the ass, right? Like he's such a talented writer has, has like a stack of scripts that I think anybody would love to buy. Right? But he can't sell them for the life of him because he is not personable. Oh, yeah. Like, he's great at making these characters personal. But you put him into a pitch room and done, the guy just shuts down. Like, he's like, the most dry person to like, I mean, if you could, if you could, like, split a bottle of whiskey over a pitch meeting, like he would be good to go, you know what I mean? But like, I feel so bad for him. Because like, honestly, he's brought me into his pitch meetings being like, Dude, I will put your name on the script, if you helped me pitch it. I mean, it's just like, a lot of it has to do with like, putting yourself out there and confidence level. And like, those are all things that like are ancillary. You know what I mean? Writing, it's all you're all safe and sound when you're in your dark room, and you're typing in the glow of your computer and everything. Like that's all great, right? But the true reality is, is that this is a human business. It's and you have to make human connections with people and and you can't be a robot trying to sell your script. And and realize, too, that when you go out and meet these people at the bars, they're used to people being like, oh, this person only wants to talk to me, because they know I can help them get something. Right, right. Now,

Alex Ferrari 1:13:08
we could talk for hours about this for hours.

Deepthroat 1:13:11
No. Question.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:15
No, I do have I have one more question because we were talking about this before we started recording. And I said, don't stop, stop. I want I want to put this in. You have done rewrites on some major studio tentpole things that and I want you just to give a little bit of a glimpse behind the scenes of those studio movies, those writers that first draft that final draft conversation?

Deepthroat 1:13:39
Sure, sure. So a lot. And you'll see this a lot when you work in development, right? Where it's like, we'll have acquired the script. It's from a talented writer, you get the first draft of it. It's absolute trash. You know what I mean? And I think

Alex Ferrari 1:13:54
they buy it, but why do they buy it? Is it because of the concept? Yeah, they,

Deepthroat 1:13:57
I mean, sometimes it's open assignment, right? So it's like the production company itself will be like, we want a movie that is about a guy that finds a girl in the trunk of his rental car. And that's the premise of the movie. That's all we've got come and pitch us on your take on that, right? And then it'll bring in like four or five writers and one of them will be hired to write the script because they came in and they did a good pitch, you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's one way. And then they go out and they rush through the draft because they have a deadline of like three weeks. And I guarantee you they didn't start it until four days before because that's what we do, you know? And then it's like, then the then who reads the first draft? It's like, first, it's the development assistant. Let's get your take on it. How's the story function? We've trained you to do this, we understand that you have good notes like you read a first while I read it. And if you have a really cool boss, like we'll compare, you know what I mean? The other the other side of the coin is like, Okay, we've hired this writer or we bought the script, hoping that this guy would like or this girl will be able to rewrite it. You know, we paid them for a rewrite, you know, but realize that the WJ They standards have certain fees for rewriting and in a contract, you're guaranteed certain aspects. And the reality is if like, if you don't deliver in that amount of time, they own the property so they can go out and they are they have an option to the property so they can go out hire their own writers to rewrite your stuff for the WJ standard, if that writer then changes more than 50% of the script or something like that. And I don't know the rules, I'm sure there's probably somebody out there. That's like, that's not entirely true,

Alex Ferrari 1:15:26
yes. But the concept was

Deepthroat 1:15:29
significant changes to the actual piece of property that was optioned or acquired, then your name gets put on is like, uh, you know, whatever. And most of my rewrites have been about like, you know, restructuring story or punching up jokes, or something like that, right? Where it's like, I'll do a past that purely Comedy Based where it's like, okay, we've got the story now. But we're struggling to find the areas of comedy, like, we need to bring in somebody who's not as close to us to see where those opportunities lie, you know, so that's when they bring in sort of an outside resource, like myself, or like many, many other people out there who make a living off of rewriting as opposed to selling their own stuff, sometimes in the lols. Right. So it's like you go in, and you'll punch up like a good bit of the jokes, or maybe like, change the perspective of one character's voice, and it ends up working out. And then it goes to script and you get to know your girlfriend or your wife and be like, hey, that one was mine. Look, everybody's laughing at it. And you know, and it's super fun. And you get to, you know, you get to buy, you get to, you know, make your car payments for a little while and buy a nice steak dinner. And that's about it. I mean, it's like, if you're Aaron Sorkin, you're brought on to do a dialogue punch up and you make half a million dollars. I'm not Aaron Sorkin, so I don't get that kind of, right. But at the same time, it's like, you see a wide variety of quality, a wide quality of scripts, right. So like, if you're brought in to rewrite a second draft, that the writer, you know, was hired to write their idea didn't pan out, they've got two cracks at it. And now this is this is you're bringing on somebody else? You know, I mean, like, sometimes those scripts are, are painful to read. A lot of it, I think, is because and I and I think I speak for a lot of writers that get to the level of where they're being called into these meetings, it's like, or pitching for open assignments. It's like, a lot of writers actually hate the physical act of writing. You know what I mean? Like, oh, it's a burden to tell stories, they love to craft characters, but like to sit down and actually do the work is like excruciating. Sometimes, you know what I mean? Especially when it's somebody else's idea and not your own, you have to sometimes find the passion. And it happens a lot on TV shows a lot on TV shows, because you're all hired drag, something that somebody else created. And especially if it's an early season, it's like you're trying to figure out what the show is, in, people bring in stuff that, you know, they're given a week, right? Like, you go off the script, and you come back, and it's like, one week later, and it's like, now we have to spend the next month punching the script up as a group, you know what I mean? Like, that's kind of how it works. And to the level of quality that you see from like, these professional writers with big names, submit these drafts. And when you're brought in as a rewriter, do it, the quality is variable, sometimes it's a really great script. And you're like, God, I can't believe that they weren't, that they weren't on board with this, like this is a great take. But again, you got to think about their mandate, where they're going, where they want to go, what they expect to see who maybe they have somebody attached, who doesn't like it, you know what I mean? There are a lot of auxilary issues that could be there. Whereas if you're just brought on to the scripting phase, with no attachments, and this is just an open assignment that they wanted, and you come in, and it's like, you can tell that this writer put together a pitch like 48 hours before they got the meaning. And it's like, okay, this, you can tell that in the script, because they didn't really have, they may have had the hour long pitch thought out, but they didn't have the, the actual story fleshed out and given like, you know, two or three months, or six months, or 40 days, whatever it was, to write the script, you can tell that it's suffered, you know what I mean? Because it's even hard for us professional writers to go in and be like, Okay, I completely understand what this is, like, it's a process for us to, you know, and I think that, again, a lot of these young writers probably don't understand that that's the case. They're like, Oh, I'm gonna sell my script to this production company, and it's gonna go straight to principal photography, and it's gonna go straight to theaters, it's gonna have my name on it, it's gonna be exactly how I did it. And you have to be out of your mind, if you think that's going to be exactly how it works. Like you're going to sell the script you make, if you're lucky, get a crack at the rewrite. If not, they're gonna bring in somebody who isn't Aaron Sorkin or is an XYZ, you know, that they can afford and that fits with the genre or whatever. They're gonna do the punch ups. If they rewrite more than you, they're gonna be the ones that get the credit, you may be lucky enough to get a producer credit or a story by if it's in your contract. If you had a good manager, agent, whatever, right? And then at the end of the day, you may go to the theater to watch the movie that you set out to write and it'd be completely different than Your pitch that actually got you the job in the first place. That's how it works. It's like, it's like when you make a product for it's like Apple updates, like you get a new Apple update every three days. You know what I mean? Like their Apple updating scripts every three days, you know what I mean? Right. And I think that as rewriters, as writers in general, like, understanding that that's the name of the game is critical. I've seen, I've seen some

I've seen, let's say that I've seen some scripts that will never ever see the light of day because they were good. And I've seen really bad scripts get made because of those auxilary factors. You know,

Alex Ferrari 1:20:38
a man actually gets actual wants to do it. That's yeah,

Deepthroat 1:20:40
yep. Yep. Whether or not the original writer who pitched it is good. You know, and a lot of it's done in house, if you get hired by a management slash production company. They have a team of writers and a team of directors and a team of actors, like they have all of that stuff in house, so they can go in and package it and then sell it. You know what I mean? Right, as a package, which is a lot of how movies get sold these days, you know, at the big

Alex Ferrari 1:21:02
book studio stuff. Yeah, without question. Yeah. And

Deepthroat 1:21:05
it's like, if you if you have a shitty draft, that Matt Damon is like, Yeah, I'll do that movie. That sounds like a cool movie. I'll do it. Like when we read the script, and you get like an attachment letter. And there's a big PR release. And like, it's a variety and all this stuff. Matt Damon signs on to blah, blah, blah. That movie could never get made. Sure. But it's going to end up in the trades because they want to generate buzz and they want to keep the momentum flowing. But honestly, it all it all comes back to is the script going to function? Is the script going to be good? Is this going to be ready? You can have all the elements attached in the world. And even then, Guillermo del Toro will tell you, it's not doesn't mean it's going to hurt Terry Gilliam, I mean, is going to be like, Okay, I've had what does it Donquixote now, in terms for 25 years, you know what I mean? Yeah. And, you know, it just,

Alex Ferrari 1:21:53
it's exactly what happens. Alright, man, you've been so frickin amazing. Deep Throat. That is deep throat that you've dropped some major bombs on knowledge bombs on on the on the Dr. Mensa. Thank you so much. I have a few questions. I asked all of my guests. So that's kind of rapid fire. What advice would you give a screenwriter wanting to break into the business today? Cross your fingers. It's very uplifting. Extremely uplifting, sir. Thank you. Um, can you tell me what book had the biggest impact on your life or career? Harry Potter. Okay. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film industry or in life?

Deepthroat 1:22:44
Mmm, that's a great question. I would say being genuine and and owning who I am as opposed to what I think other people want me to be.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:56
That's a great lesson to learn.

Deepthroat 1:22:58
It's applies to both business and life, man.

Alex Ferrari 1:23:01
Absolutely. Now, what are three of your favorite films of all time?

Deepthroat 1:23:05
Three of my favorite films of all time. Okay, off the top of my head, I would say Braveheart. Okay, excellent film. A movie network.

Alex Ferrari 1:23:16
Another amazing both very well written. Uh huh. You know,

Deepthroat 1:23:19
and, and a Lord of War. I love Lord of War. Really? You like what do I know if I wanted to throw you a curveball? Something that like maybe wasn't, you know, really, Lord. But I love that movie. I mean, say what you want about the story and the writing and my wife hates the ending. Like, I love that movie so much. I love how it starts. I love how finishes I love the character I like can't take my eyes off of him. I love the midpoint reversal and best

Alex Ferrari 1:23:47
part of that movie. That stuff. For me the best part of that movie was the opening title sequence.

Deepthroat 1:23:52
I mean, that's an opening title sequence. It's so good. And it's like, I for those I'm not gonna ruin anything for those who haven't seen the spoiler alerts here, right? Because go out and watch it I think is awesome. And say what you want about the writing and say what you want about the characters like that movie kept me entertained. I cared about whether or not and I love like movies where it's like there's an antihero. You know what I mean? Like I grew I'm rooting for the guy who's the bad guy. You know what I mean? I love that. And that was like one of the first times where and I could have set the matrix I could have set Jurassic Park and I mean the last in my real life in my in my life. first movie I ever saw was Land Before Time. Genius film. My mom took me it was the first movie I ever saw in the theater. And I was like, blown away. I was like, oh my god, movies are great. I've been obsessed ever since. And yeah, Harry Potter was what convinced me that I wanted to write matrix changed my entire perspective of the world and of filmmaking and but my favorite movies are Braveheart network and board of war because I wanted to put something in that you probably haven't heard before.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:54
That's never been on the show on any of my pockets. Ever been on the show. So you,

Deepthroat 1:24:59
like at this point? They're probably like, I wasted an hour and a half listen to this dude and his favorite movies Lord of War.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:05
This guy knows nothing. But then again, because we don't know who you are, it doesn't matter. So you can be free. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you did you don't know.

Deepthroat 1:25:16
But I definitely, it was Andrew nickel, I think

Alex Ferrari 1:25:18
yes, it was it was now the, the this is the part of the show where I generally ask where we can find you. But you will now go back into the into the darkness of the parking, the parking,

Deepthroat 1:25:30
maybe, maybe in a future episode, you can drop my name as being like, Oh, if you guys are looking for somebody who can help you develop your script, you know, check this guy out, and we just never know who it was.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:41
Maybe we could do something like that if you like. But now you're gonna go back into the shadows of the parking garage, sir.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:48
Thank you. Thank you.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:49
Thank you, man so much for being so candid. And and really, I think I think we helped hopefully helped a lot of people listening because there was some great, great practical industry advice in this without question. And you didn't expose yourself too much, sir.

Deepthroat 1:26:04
No, I mean, we only had to, we had to edit out one part. So just one

Alex Ferrari 1:26:07
part. That's it. Thanks again, man. Little seed

Deepthroat 1:26:11
there for the people listening to be like, Oh, I wonder what that was.

Alex Ferrari 1:26:15
Exactly. Thank you. Thank you for your time.

Deepthroat 1:26:18
I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.