IFH 774: Breaking Barriers in Filmmaking: The Resilient Journey of Sean Buckley

Sean Buckley 1:22
A little clunky, a little bit like moving through quicksand. I mean, technology has taken us to a point where you can get into the game of content creation, like immediately my 11 year old daughter can grab her phone and cut something, and it's fantastic, probably better than some of the stuff I was doing back in the day. But back then, when you're trying to start something, yeah, it's just a little bit more clunky, and you're, you're, you're slower, and there was more heavy lifting to create content, if you will, back in 1994

Dave Bullis 1:55
You know, and you mentioned about content creation because, like, back then, you had to, if you wanted to show somebody something you had, you had to actually put it on a VHS, tape, mail it, or you had to actually print out a whole kit. So, you know, I mean, that's a challenge of itself, because, because, you know, all that costs money,

Sean Buckley 2:12
it does in time, right? So you're not, you're not in a situation where you can be working on, you know, multiple projects at any given moment, because it's just, was just a bit more laboring to get projects done. And as you say, just the physical delivery of it, you're absolutely right. I mean, the editing of it was, you know, it wasn't linear, or, sorry, it was linear. It wasn't digital. So you're not, you know, you're making big, linear analog shifts and changes, but you're just again, a little more time consuming.

Dave Bullis 2:43
So you know, what was the impetus to start your own production company in 94

Sean Buckley 2:48
I just always loved the concept of storytelling and and I love creating. So for me, it was a bit of a leap of faith. I left a job and publishing and advertising. I was a little older to the game. So imagine a 26 year old being a PA on set, sweeping studios, dragging cables. That was, that was me starting, literally starting in the business. But it was, as I say, kind of fueled by blind optimism and fear. I wanted to build a business of my own. I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit, and I wanted, quite frankly, to be doing what I was very, very passionate about. So it was in the world of storytelling.

Dave Bullis 3:32
So when you finally did actually start your own production company and everything you know, how did you go about making your first project? Because I imagine, you know, like, you could just, you know, alluded to Sean. You probably got, you know, when you're when you're first starting out. I mean, at least in my experience as well, when you're first starting out, you kind of get a lot of eyebrows. Because, like, you know, can you, you know, can you do this? You know, can you finance this? Do you know how to do a budget, all that good stuff. So when you first started out, you know, your first project, you know, what were some of the challenges with that?

Sean Buckley 4:03
Well, you know, literally, you know, going through the school of hard knocks, right? Like understanding it, learning it the and, quite frankly, failing and using kind of failure, if you will, is fuel to motivate you to teach you to, you know, make sure that you're continually moving towards, you know, understanding the landscape better, understanding execution better, understanding your craft better. And yeah, first projects were the result of cold calls, you know, hey, do you want to do a corporate video? Click, hey, do you want to do a corporate video, click, you know, rinse and repeat, and then moving into things like music videos and stuff where artists were clinging to you as, quite frankly, as kind of much as you were clinging to the artist in this leap of faith. So, you know, not big budgets and stretching, you know, stretching the investment, or whatever investment you. Could get, be it your own personal one that you were, you know, you'd salvage together to put something on a reel to somebody taking a chance on you, and then you just putting it on the screen and organically building your work, your portfolio, because at the end of the day, that that reduces the eyebrow game, it's like. So what is it that you do? Well, this is what we do, and when they see your work, when you kind of get to that stage, you start to see just some more success and getting more and more projects.

Dave Bullis 5:32
So Sean, you touched on cold calling. That's something I've had to do as well, not only just for this, but like, you know, just for, you know, getting talking to investors or what have you. But also, you know, I had an internship in college where they made me just do cold calling all day. So, you know the and here's the funny part, Sean, the list that they had was a bunch of, like, former clients. It was like an amalgamation list, right? It was like, former clients, current clients, all this stuff, right? So they were like, Why don't you just sit in this room and call these people all day? So I would sit there Sean for like, two hours every day after college, calling these people. And more than half were like, wait. They were like, who are you? And I said, Oh, you know, I'm Dave, you know, calling from, you know, I won't say the company, but then I'm calling from this they're like, why are you calling me? I'm like, Well, you know, they're running this deal, whatever, and most of the time they would just hang up on me. One person freaked out. It was a woman who was no longer a client. And, I mean, like, this woman was, like, freaking out that I even called her. She was like, why would I do business with this company again? What the hell is wrong with this? What the hell's wrong with you? And I go, I'm just some collagen turn, I'm sorry. So yeah, so when you were cold calling, did you have a list of contacts that you already knew would maybe be interested?

Sean Buckley 6:53
You know what it's, for starters is, I love the concept of, you know, a path, a path, a pathway into what it is that you want to achieve or accomplish, is riddled with resistance. And so if you were to just take the word cold calling, I mean you obviously immediately, like you went, Oh my God, because it took you back to a place which was really, really hard to do. And that's interestingly enough. Interesting concept to look at now is in the landscape of content, because there was numerous paths to or barriers to entry, if you will. So it was a, you know, cold calling, reaching out, trying to get people to give you a shot. Yeah, you know, you're picking up the phone high. You own a whatever, a flea market. Do you want a really cheap commercial. No, don't ever call me again. Click next call, but you know, all the way through to working as a PA and, you know, dragging gear and passing coffees. But even there, you're cold calling, it is a different cold calling. It's organic cold calling. It's a networking thing where you're like, hey, you you're an assistant cameraman. Can you borrow a camera on the weekend, and maybe all produce and director thing, and you can be the DOP, and so you're and let's do this, and then we both walk away with something for our real so you're just constantly moving through the barriers to entry into what it is that you want to do now in content. Now, what I actually love is the barriers of entry have been reduced. So that is, and I'm not talking so much the cold calling. I mean, probably most of your audience wouldn't even know what that concept is, but it's it's striving to be given an opportunity, getting an opportunity any way that you possibly can. But once given that opportunity, technology has reduced those barriers to entry so that you can deliver on set opportunity. You can get access to gear. You can shoot digital. You can get a camera next to nothing. You can frame it up, you can cut it. You can add music. You can, you know, you don't need to drag around a big machine like shooting on film editing, you know, cutting on an avid or some of those massive editing suites, which were, you know, the only way to kind of get in the editing game back in the day, film processing, the cost of film like you're not dragging around these big, chunky behemoths to get to get the project done that you have been given the opportunity to do. And so what that does, and I'm and I love it, is it levels the playing field a little bit so that you know what you know you want to go and shoot a small you can take even get you can get access to the gear. It's affordable. You can execute it. But what it doesn't reduce, and the one commonality is your your ability to or your want or your desire, or your resilience to press through to get that opportunity to deliver a piece of work for the client, to. To deliver the, you know, the project that you have been given the opportunity to execute.

Dave Bullis 10:06
Yeah, it's, you know, I like the the idea to the what you have to, you know, kind of resistance, the barriers to entry, until you can finally get to do what you want to do. You know, that's what a lot of then. That's why I'm kind of asking a lot about, you know, the the Early Start Here is, because a lot of this is, is, you know, people tend to whether they went to film school or they didn't go to film school, like myself, you know, you kind of want to go out there. And you've realized the barriers entry now are a little bit lower, so where you don't have to lug around a bunch of stuff, you can make a movie. You know, hell, we had Sean Baker on on here, who made a movie with his iPhone that was tangerine and that

Sean Buckley 10:45
And tangerine, it was fantastic, like, again, and, and nobody in that audience sat there and said, I'm not enjoying this film because he shot on his iPhone the exact opposite, you know, so I that's exactly what I'm talking about. I think that's fantastic.

Dave Bullis 11:00
Yeah, it and that that's just kind of like, you know, that's why I think, you know, with content creation the way it is now, and some, and I'm kind of jumping ahead, but I forgot to ask this question now is, you know, Sean, do you feel that the market is kind of over saturated right now because they have YouTube, you have Hulu, you have Vimeo, you have Netflix, all this other things. Or do you think that the market is it doesn't really matter, because the quality is always going to be there, um, meaning that, okay,

Sean Buckley 11:31
Go ahead.

Dave Bullis 11:31
I was gonna say, because I know sometimes you could hear, you know, people will lament and say, like, Oh, my project would have been this, but it got buried by 10 other things that was released the very second I released it. You know what I mean?

Sean Buckley 11:42
Sure, yeah, I don't listen. There's a lot of content out there. But for the you know, we've gone through a content revolution, and primarily in the way that we've shifted from the audience having content pushed at them. You will watch this show, and you will watch it at eight o'clock, and it will be Thursday night. So go destination viewing, sit on the couch, turn your TV on and watch your show, versus content now, and the audience pulling content to them. So what that's created is a ferocious appetite for content. So is there more, absolutely, but is there more of an appetite for content? And the answer that question is absolutely now and and the ability to digest content, so rather than watching that show once a week and stretching it out, and then the content machines, in a sense, okay, well, we don't have that over Season Two until this time. It's like, Well, how about this? How about we spend seven months and we we exit, create, execute, deliver and distribute to Netflix or one of the other OTTs, an entire series. I'm like, I mean, like 10 one hour episodes, and that's consumed in a 48 hour window. And it's like, we want more. So it's like, wow. Okay, guys, we don't remember that seven. Remember that more three, three to four month window that we all thought we had? Well, that's been reduced to 48 hours. Go. Here comes season number two. Like now. So this there is, and I think that there, there'll be, there'll be a settling like, you know, some of the OTTs will, you know, grow. Some of the OTTs will disappear. Some of the OTTs, like Disney plus, will come into the marketplace, like King Kong. And, you know, instead of it, you know, them kind of hitting a billion dollars worth of subs in the course of a year. They'll do it in 110 hour window. So but then there's also be, like, you know, distribution channels that just kind of start to to disappear, and the content and the opportunity to drop content on those other channels that are, in a sense, disappearing, that will reduce the content that's out there, some of it. But when we are we are in a world now where, again, there is just because of the control is now with the audience as into how, where, what, when they want to watch, how quickly they want to watch and consume the content, because that's in control by the audience. Now it's, it's it's completely flipped paradigm of, you know, creating content for an audience.

Dave Bullis 14:27
So, So Sean, do you ever like, you know, watch YouTube, or any of those other you know, you know, content you know, outlets that you have access, that you know we all have access to. And you really, you know, watch something on there and think, you know, oh, hey, this person you know, you watch YouTube, short for instance, and you say to yourself, wow, this person should you know, with the right you know team behind him, him or her, you know they could, they should be making feature length films. I mean, do you ever, do you ever find like you know, people to work with that way?

Sean Buckley 14:57
Absolutely in fact. Uh, one of the reasons why I love the way that Bucha Productions has grown over the years is it's grown with a very diversified portfolio. And if you look at our portfolio, you'll see a company that's not just, oh, we do this and oh, yeah, yeah, we can do that. Say, No, no, we have. You know, we've made over 25 feature films, and we have created and made over 50 unscripted shows, and we've done 12 documentaries and scripted series. And you know what? We've been pioneering branded content for close to a decade, and then over here, we'll bang out a whole ton of awesome commercials or smaller digital series for consumption on YouTube, and, you know, other outlets, but in it, what the true value of this diversified portfolio is. It's a talent beacon, just as you mentioned. You know, I'm always looking for talent, always because those voices, that talent is now, because of these reduced barriers to entry, they can be seen there. You know, there was a time where you just, you couldn't get your work through the machine, but now you can, and that is, that's a fantastic byproduct of access to technology that can allow you to do what it is that you want to do, show the world your voice. So back to the Bucha model. I've got these divisions, and I'm constantly mining, you know, amazing directors or storytellers that might be over here working on a cool digital series for a feature film, or I might be over here and say, Wow, this documentary team that I just worked with is Like, so cinematic, so such a gorgeously sincere way of storytelling that I want them over here on an unscripted shoe, doing show, doing all the recreates. And now you're seeing voices migrating from different silos of media, and that's where you're starting to see things that are really fresh, and that's what I really love doing so past what we're doing in our own diversified portfolio. Yes, I'm constantly looking at the landscape of creators, and it could be something as simple as whatever, not not a tick tock, but something in YouTube that is just, you know, because you know what's great about it, and what I love is I could go out to a garage sale tomorrow, and I can buy a guitar for 20 bucks, and the guitar is fine, and I will come home and I will play it, and people will want to, you know, take a guitar and smash it over a counter, because it's so horrible. So there I am. I've accessed the concept of being a guitar player, but I can't do it, and I am really, really bad. People are accessing the ability to create content and execute content, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're talented. Where you're finding people's voices pierced through the white noise that is out there is because they are talented, and you're watching something that just moves you, and you're not in a situation where you have to say, well, how much did that cost? How much did it take you to make? Where did you like? You can ask all those questions, but it's really at the end of the day, regardless. You know, is it $120 million superhero movie that moved you, or is it this small, cinematic short film on YouTube that you know moved you, and the audience is now more than ever in kind of control of that,

Dave Bullis 18:34
You know, you mentioned the diverse portfolio. I did notice that, by the way, Sean, because I, you know, I recognize wolf cop. I saw that, and I was like, oh, Wolf cop. I go, you know, and it just, I started looking at everything else that you have done, and that kind of jumped out. Because not only you know, have I seen that a few times, but also it just, it seems so different from everything else, if you know what I mean.

Sean Buckley 18:58
Yeah, Dirty Harry only Harrier had to make that movie. Had to make it. And you know, the team that I made it with was incredible. But interestingly enough, is the wolf cop was the product of something else that we've built. And I built this with partners, and that company is called the coup company. And I don't, I, I, I've been building it with J jolly and Brian weed and my two partners and some other partners. And it's just, it isn't, it isn't a separate thing than Bucha. Bucha an owner in it. But what I saw in the coup company was yet again, pressing the perimeters of innovation. And the coup company is a disruptive model that we basically said, Hey, out there, we want to we want to make an independent film. We want to open up a coup. And a coup is called sin a coup. But. We have a million dollars in financing, and we have a theatrical coast to coast distribution with our partners here in Canada called Cineplex, and we now open cinequo, and we want you to come forward, director, producer and digital social media head. We want you to come forward with your film. So what we did is a very disruptive incubator that lived online, and we, we were out there hunting for exactly what we found, Wolf cop. Now, 90 films came in and they said, Well, where do we send the script? We don't want the script. We want your trailer. So they'll suddenly, you know, great. Now again, no barriers to entry. Guys are out there making trailers like literally hobbling together a team, getting the technology, shooting their trailer. And what if you some more veteran filmmakers would call and say, what you want a trailer? I need 10 or $15,000 it's like, well, then you know, sydne co is not for you. This is a very innovative distribution, disruptive model. Well, team like teams like Lowell Dean, who started out of the gate with Wolf cop, you know, they got it, and they put together a trailer that blew our mind. And over 16 week period, we created, we started with 90 and then moved to, you know, 25 and then down to 10, and then the top five films over a 16 week mission based model, which was going to show us the poster was your marketing plan. We developed, fully developed, numerous properties, and then flew the top five teams to the whistler Film Festival, which is a whole bunch of fun if you ever get a chance to check it out, and through our judging panel and through the fan support. Like, again, the coups are set. A coup is about, you know, fans making movies for fans. Like it's they're the ones that are telling us we want more, we want wolf cop, like they're the ones who were making the movie for and so it's like, hey, rather than sit in a room and say, I think they really want to romantic comedy. It's like, no, let's build a model that tells us what they want. And of the top five teams, it was loud and clear, people wanted us to make Wolf COVID. So that's what we did. And little Dean and his team came from a small town in Saskatchewan, which, you know to this day, I don't think, without something like sin a coup, or coup model, where may or we're finding that talent, the amazing talent, and the idea, which was wolf cop. So it's funny, you touched on that particular film, because that's exactly how we got the opportunity to make it.

Dave Bullis 22:38
Well and, you know, I wanted to ask too, you know, when you make something like Wolf cop? You know? Do you? Do you feel that, you know, as we talk about content creation and everything and standing out, do you feel that you almost have to make something like that in the marketplace right now, where just, you know, not only does the name sell it to you, because it's it's exactly what you think it is, it's a wolf cop, a werewolf that's a cop. But do you think that also just it helps to stand out? I mean, if when the marketplace, whether it be on Netflix or etc, just gets too crowded, and then you can just say, here's something completely different. It's not a big budget, you know, superhero movie, and it's, you know, it's something that you could put on, and it's exactly what it says it is. And you know what I mean. So it stands out on its own just by the sheer premise of it. It's almost like a premise is a character of itself.

Sean Buckley 23:28
Yeah, you know, you have to get through. You have to get through a sniff test really quickly in the current landscape of content like you, you know, you know. And I like to call it a with them test. It's like, immediately when they see it, it's like, well, what's in it? For me, literally, and you have a very short window of time nowadays, because the choices of what it is that they want to do, forget content. I'm gonna go right back and play Fortnite, or I'm gonna do this, or I'm going to do that, or I'm going to listen to an awesome, you know, podcast like yours, or I'm going to do, you know, there are so many things drawing at people, time and content consumption choices, so your with them test. What's in it, for me is like hyper narrow. So you got to come into that world with something that does exactly that, Wolf cop, oh, my goodness, this film looks hilarious I'm in, but also it's not always necessarily loud or or like Wolf cop isn't is a big idea. We loved it because it's an IP it's an intellectual property. Now, in the world of wolf, you know, werewolf cops, that is rip like, like a teenage Ninja Turtles. And you know, we're doing some really exciting stuff like that. Well, we made the sequel another wolf cop, and we're doing other things. But as you move back to that question, you know, there. Still other audiences that they're with them test. What's in it, for me is not, I want loud, crazy, you know, funny. I understand what the concept of the film is right out of the gate by the title. It's something like astronaut, which is a film we just finished, which is, you know, with Richard Dreyfus and Graham green a cold fjord and and we it's a film about a an elderly gentleman who's still got a dream. And the messaging in the film is, you know, dreams don't have expiry dates, so there's an audience for that, and they're with them as well. I actually want to kind of see, there's not a lot of films that are made for an older audience, and I don't want to go to the theater and watch some dude in a cape. That's just not my thing. But I do want to see a story that's grounded in some really great messaging, incredible performances by great actors, and just at the you know, core of it, a really good story.

Dave Bullis 25:57
So being that, you know, you kind of have, you know the movies that fans want to see. Does that help you? You know Sean, when you know, I'm guessing, I want to say about investors. You know, when you're pitching to investors, do you ever, is it easier, or is it harder? Because you're you're a diverse film company, because, you know, some film companies say, hey, look, we only do horror. Some of them say we only do drama. So does it kind of like hurt you, or does it help you being so diverse,

Sean Buckley 26:26
It helps us, and it helps us in the structuring out of a business model. I've always been fascinated with the concept of the if you look at a spectrum, and on one side of the spectrum is creativity, and on the other side of the spectrum is business acumen, or business knowledge. And it's weird, but you know, so much of the world feels that you're either operating in this column, call it left brain, right brain, but you're operating as this creative or you're operating as this kind of, you know, nuts and bolts accounting business guy, but my world, the world that I've always lived in, is one that I think is is going to become more and more relevant, and that is right in the middle. That's where you understand business. Mean, like Bucha Productions is a business. Our product is content. That's what we make. But you know, our product to make it revol you know, needs a tremendous amount of creativity and, you know, and that's the gift of, you know, that's, that's our focus on storytelling, and it's just films, and that's, that's TV shows, and that's digital series, and that's standing on a set doing a commercial, right? It's, I mean, our widget, if you will. I'm not trying to downplay what it is that we do, but our business widget is we, you know, we make content, so by building a company that is diversified, what that allowed me to do is a still focus on, what is that I want to do? Because storytelling for me doesn't stop at 32nd commercial, and it doesn't have to be in a 90 minute feature. It can be in an eight part, six minute each web series about young entrepreneurs that we did for infinity. And you know, the storytelling mayors, I don't want to spend any more time than six minutes with this awesome entrepreneur. But now suddenly, start looking at the business model that is Bucha. And as you know, in the marketplace now, is what it's done, is it's given us. When I say as our team, the opportunity to be selective, in a sense, so as investors come to us, or opportunities come to us, or scenarios are presented, is because we're moving through the ebbs and flows of production like, Oh, we're going to take a little, you know, we're it's going to take us a while to put together that film, but while we're doing that, we're going to make two unscripted shows, some branded content and scripted. We're moving through other production that's the business component of it, and giving us the opportunity to be a little bit more selective in what projects we choose to focus on, what projects we want to get behind, rather than we have to do that project. We gotta, you know, all we do is horror movies. That's it. That's all we make. So every horror movie that comes at us, we gotta do that. That's actually been a very, very it's given you us a position of not a position of strength to play a little bit from. We get to play from the balls of our feet and be wise about a the company's strategic partners, investors and or content that we want to work on.

Dave Bullis 29:35
Yeah, and that makes total sense. You know, it's just, I've seen you a lot of the companies that have come out, like, you know, they only do certain certain movies or certain genres, I should say. And then you kind of get that we just alluded to, where it's like, you almost have to do everything that's thrown at you, because you kind of, you know what I mean, you're kind of down a street, I guess, be and you want to be, you know, very good at that one. We'll have. Else, but at the same time, it kind of, you know, you're kind of at the, at the mercy, so to speak, of whatever the market is for that genre at the time. But granted, I mean, there's always a genre for horror, though there's always, I mean, there's always a market for horror, though,

Sean Buckley 30:14
We just finished a movie called making monsters, which is exactly that. I'm very proud of it. And it's a, it's a, you know, funny is, it's two directors that had worked with me on one of our unscripted series, but their work on the recreated recreate stuff was exceptional, and I just like them, and they're fantastic, and they've done three short films, and had received some tremendous accolades from the short film festivals, and they approached me to say, like, can we, you know, Sean, would you help us make this other short? And I said, You know what, guys, you graduated. You don't need to make another short. You've done that. Open this concept up to a feature. And let's go there. And that's exactly what we did, you know, we put together a script, invaded and wrote a fantastic story, and we made a movie called making monsters, and in it, yeah, I'm looking at the landscape of horror, and it's horror, and we've been out to all the film festivals, and it's done very, very well. But, yeah, no, that's, it's, that's, that's, it's a space that we do play in, for sure. And you're right there, as you say, the world has a, well, again, we're right back to this ferocious appetite, right? It has a ferocious appetite for, for horror.

Dave Bullis 31:24
So, you know, Sean, just to, you know, kind of, as we kind of go along here with, with your whole career, and how to, and how you, you kind of built up your own studio. You know, what advice would you give somebody who was just starting, you know, right now, who wanted to do something similar to what you've done?

Sean Buckley 31:38
I um, work ethic, you know, it's like, I didn't go to, I didn't go to film school and, and I'm not, I'm not saying that film school is not a great idea. I just wasn't, it wasn't an opportunity that I had before me. But I think at the end of the day is, you know, you have to, there's two things you have to be prepared in this particular business, to to really, really work hard and, you know, and you got to love it because anything you know, you because you got to go all In and and building your own business. You know, that's, that's, you have to be smart about it, and you have to kind of build it out, as I'd mentioned, that is a hybrid. It's a business. It's treated as a business, you know, you take the word show out of show business, and and again, just work, work really, really hard. And the then, if that scares you. The other thing I would add to that comment is the concept of the minimum minimization of regrets. So I'm, you know, here's 25 years later, and Bucha Productions is, you know, been an incredible adventure, and I've kind of got to do exactly what I love to do. And I worked with some incredible teams of people, and when I look at our what our legacy is, if you will, as a company, the fact that I'm, you know, meeting you for the first time, and you're talking about one of our films, and you've watched it, you loved it, it's like, that's our legacy. We, you know, we've created a portfolio of work that has touched people and but the minimization of regret has always been something that I think people should really tuck in there, and their decision to do it like to soldier on, because when you're looking back at, you know, it's your life, and you know you're you're saying, Wow, I just always think about mineralization of regret, like, I don't want to look back at my life and say, Wow, I was I was afraid to work too hard to try to build that company from nothing, and now I'm a great life, and I've done this, and I've worked here, and this was my gig, and it was awesome, but at the end of the day, days, I kind of regret that decision. Well, if you're operating under the concept of minimalization of regret, then you know what? You're going to throw yourself into, that situation, that scenario, you're going to throw yourself into that opportunity and work really, really hard to see it through.

Dave Bullis 34:15
So, you know? And also, we touched upon it in with, before we started this, you know. Now with, with there's no barriers to entry, like this podcast, for instance, you know, there's no podcast headquarters, for instance, it's just that, you know what? I mean, it's just a digital recording that is put up onto a pod Bean, and it's in, you know, there is no real barrier to entry. To this, which I talk all the time, especially in podcasting Sean podcasting, the barrier to entry is so low that it's almost like I'm shocked when somebody doesn't have a podcast.

Sean Buckley 34:43
Yeah, no, but I gotta tell you, I keep picturing you sitting in a 2000 square foot state of the art studios, just so you know, David,

Dave Bullis 34:52
You know it's funny. Sean, I started this podcast in a like 200,000 $50,000 studio. So I actually had a friend who actually the studio, was like, Hey, you want to use it? And I said, Sure. And I started all of this in there, and now I'm sitting here in my little office doing this. So I've kind of gone, I've gone the reverse method. Sean, I started out in a really nice studio, and now, now I'm in a thing in my house, but it's actually easier my house, though, I don't have to go anywhere.

Sean Buckley 35:22
You know what? Listen, it's like, it's odd. But, you know, look at the cultural shift in in exactly that, you know that, like access. It's like, okay, well, guess what? You know, you talked about, how did you Well, I started up a company. And then, you know, the people that you know, individuals and clients, need to come to a bricks and mortar kind of a place, because, you know what? Now, Allison, you were real. You were a real company, right? Versus we work, look at the look at the company's concepts, ideas, strategies that are getting birthed from places like we work where, you know, there is no big bricks and mortar play. How about this? How about the idea your podcast, or us, you know, how about JK Rowling writing Harry Potter in a coffee shop? You know, there's no bricks and mortar. There is, you know, it's and that's that I think, gives again, you know, again levels the playing field, but gives creators wings, in a sense, you know, they're not labored down with, well, I gotta have this to be real or be it's like, Hey, you don't, you need less. You need less, and you can create more nowadays, which I love.

Dave Bullis 36:34
Yeah, yeah, that's definitely true. I think it's just something I've been experimenting with too. It's just, you know, when you approach different people, don't approach different companies, or even, you know, trying to go to YouTube, you know, I know some companies do want to see a trailer, kind of like you were alluding to with Wolf cop. Other companies, you know, they do want to see, you know, maybe they do want to read the script first. You know what I mean,

Sean Buckley 36:57
They do listen. Well, the synergy model, the coup model, is something very different. We've worked with we've done numerous coups now. We've done a coup for sitcom that that's a that's an awesome model, all you know, tech based that we're gonna I just as a serial entrepreneur, I saw the model, I wanted to invest in it and build it with the team that was working on it. But listen, there's a very, there is a another model, you know, that, you know, Milton secret film we just did a couple years ago that started in a very traditional model. I'd read Eckhart Tolle. I love the power of now. I love the concept of being present. I wanted his work to be on the big screen. So we, you know, we worked, you know, work. Got the script. We worked script. We worked with Eckhart Tolle, and we took his book, Milton secret, which is, you know, conceptually, the power of now and being present in anti bullying. And, you know, we're making a movie with Donald Sutherland and Michelle Rodriguez and and again, very proud of that work, you know, very proud of the message that it is. I mean, it's extending a powerful message into the big screen and into the content consumption landscape of a film. So people are getting that message and not having to read the power now, or Milton secret and Eckert messages out there. So, but that's a very un you know, that's an un disruptive that's a very traditional start with the script, work the script, get the script right, build the machine, bring in the financing, make the movie.

Dave Bullis 38:31
Yes, yeah, it is. And I think too, like, you know, again, as different the different avenues are kind of, I want to say fleshed out is different avenues are kind of fleshed out. I think you are going to see, you know, more of different, different ways that people can now actually, you know, maybe they don't have to make if they have, they already have a script, or if they have an idea, they don't necessarily have, they don't have to go that model. You know what I mean, like, if they don't have, they don't have to go to a studio they could do, they could do something like with a YouTube channel. I see a lot of, you know, I see a lot of stuff with like YouTube now, especially with, I forget the guy's name. I just mentioned him the other day. But anyways, he did lights out. David stain sign Steinfeld, I forget, but he did lights out, like he did a bunch of trailers on YouTube, and then he got pulled he, you know, made a feature film out of it. So it's kind of, it's kind of what we were talking about before, where you kind of have a proof of concept or a trailer, and then you can actually flush that into a whole movie, if you, if you can go that route,

Sean Buckley 39:35
Absolutely, absolutely and, you know, and it's funny, but if you think about it, is you look at, you know, here's Martin Scorsese, you know, you look at now, again, on a totally different scale, Martin Scorsese can't get the Irishman made. No studios touching it. Nobody, nobody wants to spend the money. Nobody wants, you know, nobody's gonna back that thing. It's De Niro. Joe Pesci, it's Scorsese, arguably one of the greatest filmmakers of all time. It's, it's, it's wheelhouse. It's, you know, it's casino, it's good, fellas, it's based on an unbelievable book. And it takes the Ott, it takes Netflix, right? It takes the disruptive model of, you know, what that is, to come in and say, Hey, here's a here's a thing, here's a filmmaker and a team of actors that are, you know about, as if you were to say, for a certain audience, about as bankable as you can bank. And the studios aren't touching it, yet Netflix does, and in that model, they make the Irishman, which, you know, does a small theatrical run, and there's now boom out on so it takes some it takes a disruptive model. Takes a new, new concept, for an for a more established team of filmmakers. Now you think so, there's the young that are finding themselves on YouTube. They're breaking in. Here's an established filmmaker and established actors. And I mean, as about established as one can be having to go through Netflix to get the movie that they really want to make out there.

Dave Bullis 41:06
Yeah, I actually just saw that too on I have Netflix. Have you seen the Irishman yet?

Sean Buckley 41:12
I have. And, you know, it's long, and it's, but it's, listen, it's, it's a, it's, I thought it was fantastic. It's beautiful. It's like, it's, it's some of the, it's some of the best individuals, you know, in the world of filmmaking, you know, sharing their craft with you. I thought it was fantastic.

Dave Bullis 41:32
Yeah, it's, it's, well, you know, whenever the De Niro and Scorsese and pesha get together, the movie becomes, like, three hours. You know, it's kind of like a rule. I don't know if you know,

Sean Buckley 41:44
I say it is a rule. Yeah, it's love,

Dave Bullis 41:47
Yeah, it's guys casino and good fellows and now and now the Irishman. But, yeah, yeah, you know, you know, just, just hearing about the whole story about that coming out, you know, Netflix is a, you know, is, it's a whole model now for for, you know, filmmakers to go to because I remember when Netflix first started. True story Sean, I remember when Netflix, Netflix first started, I had a couple friends who actually got movies picked up by them, and the reason they had got picked up was because, I don't know if you remember this or not, but Netflix used to let you submit movies to them. They weren't and it wasn't hidden either, like, there was a button on the website that said, submit your movie here. And that's how a couple of my friends got submitted, or, sorry, got got distribution by Netflix, or in the early days, and they still use that to their credit. So like, whenever, you know, 1015, years now, they use that to get their foot in the door. They're like, Oh, by the way, you know, I've had a movie on Netflix and, you know, people like, holy shit, really? Oh my god, right.

Sean Buckley 42:47
No, that's Listen, great. Listen to talk. You know, like, at one point Netflix was a business that would mail DVDs to you. You know, at one point, Netflix was almost acquired by blockbuster. Think about that. Blockbuster is like, you know that archaic model of you have to go to a store, stand in line, take a VHS tape, bring it home, plug it in your system or your DVD and watch it and then make sure that you return it, or are you going to get paid a late charge. Crazy. But you know, again, when Netflix was breaking and being disruptive and breaking through. And, you know, mailing DVDs to homes. This, this, you know, this OTT model comes through. And now look at it, the great red tide, as it is called,

Dave Bullis 43:34
Yeah, it's, it definitely, yeah. The whole everything has changed. You know, I think I have some friends of mine and myself. I think we're the only people left who still may be by still maybe buy blu rays when they come out the physical media.

Sean Buckley 43:46
But hey, that's that's collective, that's collectors. And I will say this, I love seeing stuff like, like, in a sense, life is cyclical. Art is cyclical. The world is cyclical. And you know, you're looking at vinyl sales going through the roof. People want because there's been a massive generation that is that doesn't like when they say own content. It's like there's something about lifting that blu ray up, holding it, touching it, physically touch, putting it in a machine, looking at the additional components, you know, content offerings that it has on it. I mean, you drop that needle on a piece of vinyl, you know, there's, you know, you know, there's an audience that has never touched music. It's just Spotify. It's the apple playlist. It's this, I want to hear this song right now, put it on, you know, versus taking a record out of a sleeve, touching it physically, putting it on something, listening to the music fill the room. That's that's an Analog Experience. That is, I mean, I think is coming back strong. And when you look at things like, I'm not sure about blu ray sales, but when you look at vinyl sales, you know they're just increasing. You know, they're going through the roof.

Dave Bullis 44:58
You know, I have a friend. Mine. I just, you know, he has a lot of, you know, physical media. And I asked him, I said, How many blu rays do you have? And he actually has a catalog of every single brewery that he has, and he just is shy of 10,000 blu rays.

Sean Buckley 45:17
Jeez. Where does he keep it all?

Dave Bullis 45:20
Well, he, it's, I'm glad you asked that Sean, it's, it's his. So he has a house also himself, and it's basically like a Best Buy warehouse in there.

Sean Buckley 45:32
Yeah, for sure, yeah. Some people would call that hoarding, but no, I hear what you mean. As long as it's organized, it's not hoarding.

Dave Bullis 45:40
Well, I told him that. I said, I said, I think you're at the verge now where, like, if, if, like, a pile of these blu rays were to fall on you, I said, I think it would be, like, days before anybody found you. And he started laughing. He's like, Yeah, that's probably true. It's almost like, you know, in like, one of those quarter shows where the guy gets, you know, on, you know, they start unearthing stuff, and they find, like, just like people buried underneath there, under the mountain of blu rays.

Sean Buckley 46:05
Yeah, that'd be a great question. Okay, so if you were to pick the top 100 films to crush you, what would they be in your pile of blu rays? But you know what? Listen, that's, that's content. I mean, that's an individual who, whatever, appreciates content and like, that's, that's no different than your, you know, listen, I own a ton of movies. I just own them now digitally. And, you know, I have a digital suitcase of films, you know, listen, and there's something very cool about going to Apple TV. And I do this all the time, like Wolf copper, or you saw wolf cop on Netflix. But, you go to your you go, you've worked very hard to make a film, and you know, the team that you've put together and that you've worked hard with, you know, there's a real celebration of getting, you know, getting that story, that that piece of content out there. And there's something very cool about, just as a filmmaker, about going to Apple TV and seeing it up there, and, you know, you and I purchase it, purchase my own film, and I drop it and put it into, you know, a purchased portfolio. Because I don't know there's something about, you know, it, it create being out there to find audiences. I mean, that's at the end of the day, why you do it.

Dave Bullis 47:26
Yeah! It's, by the way, just to mention too, that the whole movies to crush you. It's like, Yeah, forget, forget about the movies. Your top 10, top 100 Island lists. It's a movies on desert island. Just get the 100 movies. It'll crush you to death and be it. Go from there. That's it. Yeah, no, just, I was just laughing at that. That was but, but, yeah, you know, you're absolutely right. You know, Sean and, you know, I mean, you know, we've been talking for about, you know, about an hour or so. So I wanted to ask, you know, kind of in closing is, you know, is there anything you wanted to say to put a period at the end of this whole conversation?

Sean Buckley 47:57
Appreciate the time. David, thank you so much. Yeah, I it's the one thing is, is that, like, is the concept of looking back? And, you know, when I look at the portfolio of what Bucha created, and I've got the, I've got the advantage of looking at it from 25 years and the journey is the the one resounding component about all of it is, is that that minimization of regret like these young content makers is Don't, don't be Don't Tread lightly into it. Don't be fearful. If you have a voice and you have a story and you want to tell it, and you're you believe in yourself now more than ever. You know there's an opportunity to do it and outlets to get it on. And is it competitive? Absolutely competitive as one could ever imagine. But whatever it's it's always been competitive because, as we discussed at the beginnings of this conversation, it's all about barriers to entry. And you know, you know, if you did not have a 35 mil camera, you were not making a movie, period full stop, and if you couldn't get it cut on a $250,000 editing suite called an avid you weren't assembling it. So those are all challenging things to navigate, and they they're no longer here. So it's just, it's but, you know, there's more players, it's more competitive, if you will. I would, so I would just say, you know, like, if you look at the portfolio, bug, super proud of it, super proud of the teams that I've had the great fortune of working with and I look back and it's like, you know what I've enjoyed, and still got lots to do, but I've really enjoyed the experience, the adventure, and the opportunity to play in the landscape of storytelling, which is something really that I just always wanted to do.

Dave Bullis 50:02
And that's kind of the prize. You know what I mean, Sean, where you at, you get to do what you love. And you know, especially in this, in this market, in this industry, you know what I mean, it's, it's tough, but if you can do it, more power to you, right? Absolutely. So where do people find you at online

Sean Buckley 50:19
Buckproductions.com, where we're on Instagram. Buck Productions is on Instagram, and we're kind of updating people primarily through Instagram. We're on Facebook productions and, yeah, that's kind of us, and we're, you know, if you want to check out our work, our portfolios of worker at our website, and we're always updating kind of what we're doing out there and and some of the cool stuff that we're working on on social.