IFH 852: Why Moving to LA Might Ruin Your Film Career with Will Ball

Alex Ferrari 0:47
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:07
This guy is an agent for some of the biggest talent agencies on the East Coast. He's worked with all of them. He just returned from a one year trek out to LA where he worked with more of the top agencies out there. This guy has been through it all, awesome guy, a lot of knowledge. He's now returned to Philly. He's starting his own agency here called the vibe model and talent agency. We're gonna talk all about that and so much more, also about finding representation, which is a huge question I get asked a lot about, is finding representation. So I imagine this episode, and the one with Whitney Davis, is going to be pretty popular, as Whitney's episode is very popular. So without further ado, with guest Will Ball.

Dave Bullis 1:07
This is from seasons, yeah, free seasons pizza. Who would have funk it, right? So, you know, it's funny, because I was going to order Chinese or pizza, and I was like, no, let me, let me turn some cheesesteaks. Let me just see how. Because, again, you're right. We're in Philadelphia, and if you don't actually have a good cheesesteak, you get beaten savagely out in the parking lot. Yeah, seriously, but you know, you know, it's funny having you on the show will because, again, I had crispy on Two episodes ago. This is episode 152 Yeah, and real

Will Ball 3:08
Quick, yeah. Someone like, I hear correctly because I was listening to the crispy podcast one of your guests, like, murdered somebody.

Dave Bullis 3:17
Oh, it was Dan Mirvish, and the guy he was taught filmmaking by at USC, he murdered his family.

Will Ball 3:25
Okay, okay, so it wasn't an actual because it was at the beginning. And I was, I was kind of doing some of the same time, so I wasn't like, I was like, 80% listing, yeah, and I just heard, I was like, Wait, both his guests, damn.

Dave Bullis 3:38
It's Confessions of a serial killer

Will Ball 3:40
Deliver his manifesto.

Dave Bullis 3:46
The police are just out here beating the crap out of me because, but no, he's teacher. Basically. What happened was a concise story of this was his name was crazy, Aziz, and they called him that because he was kind of, like, always outlandish and deserve, you know. Yeah, what happened was one day they called him in the office, and he they said, there's a camera missing, and we didn't know who took it. And he said, I don't know. He got fired from from that from USC, okay, his wife then announced she was leaving him, and it kind of snapped, and he killed them both, and then drove away and shot himself in the head. But they but they didn't know he was dead yet, because he just vanished. So they had USC on lockdown. They so they basically, yeah, they had to, you know, basically everyone was scared to death because they're like, is he gonna come? Because he apparently had vendettas against certain people. So they were like, oh shit, huh, so, but yeah, no, no. Serial killers left about Yeah!

Will Ball 4:39
Well, I see, let's see what happens after this. Yeah, yeah.

Dave Bullis 4:40
Seriously, crispy. Who knows he could be crazy, because he's not the guys like me, because it's always the guys who are like, he's so nice and sweet.

Will Ball 4:49
If you're on the news, you're like, I would have never thought it was him, that guy.

Dave Bullis 4:54
Yeah, and just be like, crispy did out of nowhere. I. Fair enough. Fair enough. Oh yeah, no, no problem. It's good to talk about that. And that's, that's episode 149, damn average, right before crispy. And so what happened was, you know, we've actually known each other since, what middle school, I'd say. So yeah, about that? Okay, because I don't remember how I met crispy. Do you remember how we met? Because I because crispy thinks that we met at lunch one day. And I said, crispy, that's such a weird way to meet somebody at lunch, like,

Will Ball 5:27
Especially in middle school.

Dave Bullis 5:29
How do you do that?

Will Ball 5:30
Yeah, no, I'm that's confusing, I to be honest with I don't remember. I know you were a great above me. So there's always that kind of like distance that people have. I mean, it's like, yeah, you're in the same school, but like, you're just, like, years apart, because even though it was just one, but, yeah, no, I really don't remember. I just, I think it's just gonna game to be. And then I think in college, we had reconnected, because you had reached out to me about a film or something like that. And then then we just kind of got more involved from there.

Dave Bullis 5:59
Yeah, I do remember that. I remember that because I also remember, yeah, I was trying to think of this stuff too, because I'm like, Damn, it's been so I mean, what do you graduate to high school about 50 years ago? About that? We're about 70 years old now, it feels like it, and now I'm just like, how do I know these guys? Yeah, because, but you never know that. Like I certain friends, I know, I know exactly where I met them at other people. I'm just like,

Will Ball 5:59
I do remember where I met crispy, though, which we crispy tell it about, actually at a party, like a mutual friend's party. And I think we're just playing, we're playing some DOS game on the computer. And, oh yeah, there was no really. I mean, that's it really wasn't that

Dave Bullis 5:59
Prank them or something.

Will Ball 5:59
No, wasn't that that exciting, but, yeah, using then after that, I was like, Hey, will you want to be my films then, which obviously I was happy to do, and still am, but, uh, yeah, like, that's, sorry, nowhere.

Dave Bullis 5:59
Well, well, that's, that's a sign of what's gonna happen with the podcast.

Will Ball 5:59
You got another 15 minutes of stories which go nowhere.

Dave Bullis 5:59
Now everyone's gonna stop right now. Just be like, Oh well, this is the end of this podcast. Oh, man, it's, you know, just crazy, though, because, you know, so when you were making all those films of crispy, why did he? Did he select you because of your look, or because you guys were friends, because you knew something about filmmaking,

Will Ball 6:18
I think we were friends. Okay, yeah, that was first and foremost. And then I think, you know, he was trying to make a more spiritual film. And at the time, I was, you know, more into that. Obviously, I'm not now, but, you know, at the time, but yeah, and I, you know, and it was just happy to do it. I mean, just happy to do it. I mean, this is, like, you know, I really want to be involved in film at any capacity, and I was wanted to explore more acting. So, you know, the fact that there's someone in my backyard who was shooting a film was, you know, it's awesome. Like, I was so super happy to do it. And, yeah, and got to pretend make out with people. So, like, all right, even better,

Dave Bullis 7:57
Really, oh, wow. So, because I know, I know crispy was, like, put a lot of friends that he asked me to be in one okay, and I think it was, it was one of them, and he and he kept, like, canceling on me at the last minute. And I kept, like, it wasn't four times I said, Chris. I said, You're a nice, tough guy. But I said, I can't just put any more time into this. So I just kind of, that's where crispy and I stopped talking for like, a year, not because we're mad at each other, but just because, you know, we were just, yeah, exactly, just doing different things, you know, and then we reconnected, and I ran into one day at the gym, and yeah, at the gym, yeah, we were in the shower room together. No, at the gym, I actually used to be in shape. And I'm dead serious about that. I actually used to be in shape. And then crispy, I think was getting back into shape at that time. This is when we were in our 60s, like you're the gym.

Will Ball 8:49
I was just surprised. Never, I've never crispy at the gym. Not crispy. No offense to say, I just didn't, wouldn't picture him as a gym rat.

Dave Bullis 8:57
Do you know who Crispy's? Old gym Buddy was no, no. Kevin Coleman,

Will Ball 9:03
Oh, gee, Coleman. And I mean, I actually just saw Coleman the other day, and I know it's just not interesting to any it was like it was Coleman. He's actually living with my old roommate right now. Samarra, no, no, with, with Matt can cannon, with, with it, with Matty mooch, oh, I live in the media. He's in media with them and and Matt is just, he's like, he's died. The stories he tells about Coleman, like he cracks himself up, and it cracks everyone else stuff like, it's Coleman. I guess there's like two coma there's like silver Coleman and drunk Coleman. And it's a very two different people, and very, so very, very nice people. I had nothing bad to say about Coleman. He's a great guy. Just very, very funny.

Dave Bullis 9:45
Did I just say about the time I had to almost choke Coleman out in the middle of a bar on Christmas Eve? True story. Hey, Coleman. We were which bar Dexter's that used to be up here on the five in lovely Aston, Pennsylvania. So what happened was Coleman was drunk one Christmas Eve in a bar, and he won Christmas Eve. It was a snow who knows? Actually Christmas Eve, and he actually started picking a fight with a friend of mine because he thought my friend was kept egging him on. My friend didn't even say anything, and Coleman just went ballistic. So I just went in between them. I was like, Coleman just calmed down, and he just went ballistic. And I was like, and he started trying to grab me, and I'm like, oh shit, I pushed him. I mean, I'm a lot bigger than Coleman is, so I just, like, chucked it with the woman against the wall, and we and I hit another person on the way back. So three of us in the wall, and then I just kind of like, put my elbow, or my forearm into his into his neck, and I got my hand on the back of his head. And I was kind of like, doing this, yeah. And I was like, Coleman, Calm the fuck down. And he just was getting angry and angry. I'm like, now I have to put more and more pressure on him. So finally he starts like, he can't breathe, so I'm starting to like, he's starting to go down, and we get him out the door. I the door. I didn't choke him out or anything, but I said,

Will Ball 11:04
Like, forcefully, like, hey, we need to get out here.

Dave Bullis 11:07
Yeah, I was a calm so I'm not gonna let him go if he's not gonna be calm. And we got him outside, and he's just like, Oh, I'm sucking ass. I'm like, Jesus, how much has this kid had to Drake, Sweet Lord God. And, I mean, oh my God, but yeah, but finally, he ended up giving the credit card to somebody else. They came in and paid for all his stuff. The owner of the bar wanted to call the cops. And I'm like, and I'm like, I'm like, Well, I he knew me. So he goes, so what happened? And somebody out here fighting? Well, I said, Yeah. I said he was just calling that kid. He goes, All right. Well, I say he's out of here. I said, you know, we're sorry about everything. So he goes, All right. Well, you know, I won't do any coma cops or anything.

Will Ball 11:47
So, can I speak of a bar fights. Can I tell a crazy la story? Go for it, man. Many so. So when I was in LA, it was like the week I had moved to LA, a friend of mine was like, hey, well, let's go to this Armenian bar in north, north Hollywood. So I'm like, All right, yeah, why not? Let's go. So pretty sure. It started off at like, the bar elsewhere, and then it was like, Hey, this is Armenian bar down the street. Let's, you know, stumble in, what have you. So we're there and, and there's this too. This is short Armenian dude, and it's really tall Armenian chick, and they're talking to each other, and they like, just, like, ran into each other, and they're kind of ribbing each other, like, joking around. And they're starting to like, hey, like, you're so tall, you're so short, you're, you know, making comedy act. I'm just sitting here drinking, just looking at what's going on, and you can see it like, it's starting to just, like, get meaner. Like, the like, the it crossed the line from like, being just friendly and joking to just like it, like really kind of insulting, and they start to, like, get really, like, mean jabs at each other. Like, crispy and Matt Kelly, exactly. Yeah. So, so clearly. So then the smaller Armenian guy, he says something that, like, crosses a line, and she talks to lugi and spits on him, and we're like, Oh, damn.

Dave Bullis 13:09
Like, and she had to spit down,

Will Ball 13:11
Yeah, yeah, I had to spit down, right? Like, walks away, right? And like, oh shit. Like, whatever. So, like, everyone's drinking, and it's coming around, like, two o'clock in the morning, so the bar is about to close. Well, he just got this look on his face. He goes back up to that Armenian chick and spits in her face all of a sudden, like, there's like, Armenian, like, bar fight. It's breaking out. And the bounce is just like, What the fuck? And my friend, she was very much like, oh, you dare Don't spit in like, a woman's face. And the bouncer was like, about to, like, beat the shit out of this guy. And I'm like, Yo, dude, listen, I want to tell you something. Like, I I don't believe that you should spit in anyone's face, you know, man or male or female, but like, she's spitting his face first. And I'm not saying, like, what he should have spit back, but I'm just saying it wasn't just, like, out of the blue, like, like, he just talked to Luke in some chicks face, like, and he was like, okay, cool, cool. I'll just let it kind of like, let's just kick him out of the bar, and that'll be it. I won't beat anyone's ass. So I'm like, well, anyone's ass. So I'm like, Oh damn. And that was like,

Dave Bullis 14:05
No, welcome to LA. Jesus, man, we'll ball stop and bar fights.

Will Ball 14:09
Oh no, I just stopped popcorn.

Dave Bullis 14:13
So I want to talk about you going to LA, but I just want to go back. No, no. It's probably because I want to actually ask. You know, right out of high school, you went to college, how did you end up getting into this whole agency field, man? Because I, you know, I just it seems like harder to me to get into that, because it's very niche. So I want to ask you, how did you find yourself actually, as an agent for all these, you know, actresses and models and stuff like that.

Will Ball 14:38
So when I was in college, I went to school for a film, and in my first few years of film, I just, I don't know, or years of college, I just knew that I didn't really want to be there, or I wasn't quite sure why I was there. And I had heard someone else talk about having similar feelings, and they suggested take a semester off, just do what you want to do, like if you want to do something else. And at the time, I really wanted to be an actor, and I really. Really wanted to explore the acting industry, like, just, just, just take it off. Still this to this day, I will give the same advice to anyone who's, like, in college and not liking it, or just not feeling it, just walk away and come back. Like I was able to. I took a semester off. I pursued acting. I was able I got, like, in a commercial, I got, like, some small print ads, things like that. And it's great. I, like, learned a lot, and then at that six months, and then afterwards, I thought, you know, Okay, it's time for me to go back to school. I was ready to go back to school, but I went instead of for broadcasting and communications, and it's a little more viable. I mean, the thing about film school is you really don't have to go to film school in order to make film. Like, honestly, I would recommend, instead of take that tuition money and invest in just equipment and books and your own film and, like, save yourself any you want to have loans that way. Seriously, man, it doesn't make sense to go to film school for film. And I kind of saw that as in the class. Like, wait, I'm in the class with just, like, 30 people, and this is just one class. Like, we're not all going to be successful. Like, and there's only so few jobs here. Like, best I can hope is to be a PA. So, like, I gotta find a way to, you know, be realistic. Yeah, I'm not saying don't pursue your genes, but like, You got to be realistic, yeah, degree. So, so then I went back to college and an internship. And I took an internship at an agency here in Philadelphia, and and it was called expressions, and the wonderful rear Lang, she's an agent. She's older now, but she's been an agent in Philly for, God, decades, and learned everything. I learned a lot from her, and she's really good. And then she generates most people that just loves being an agent and just it is what she does. Like she's this older woman. She gets on the train every day and rides the subway to work, like, you know, she's so dedicated and loves what she does so really, kind of fell in love there and just got really, really like being behind the camera as much as I did in front of the camera. Because it's very much like the best part of my job is sharing in my talent success. You know, I love calling up talent and being like, Hey, listen, like you just booked this job, and they're just ecstatic, and they're just beyond, you know, happy. And it's just for me. I don't know, I really like that feeling, and I really it's just, it's what drives me to do this job. It's the best part of my job, for sure. And so then after that, then I got picked up by another agency who was opening up in Philadelphia, and worked there for five years, got to know, really, the client base here and in Philly, even more. And then after that, that's when I went out to LA

Dave Bullis 17:19
And so just sort of to go take a couple steps back. Sure, I always have to talk about college. I always talk about, you know, film school and this and that that's something to that I just as I keep talking to more and more people from this podcast, that's one thing is to not everyone's going to succeed, whether it be screenwriting or directing or whatever. The other thing is, do you really need to go to make a film? I say no. I mean, I'm a big advocate, you know, people always ask me about film and going to college whenever. I'm actually the guy that talks you out of going into the film industry, and I'm also the guy tells you to quit college and never go there to begin with. So because, like, because, to me, colleges, it's a the more I experience people with degrees, you know, I talked to them. And more experience talking to people with who have these degrees, and they have a degree in, like, business, like me, or something like, you know, chemical engineering. And it's like, we don't even do in the go do anything in that field. And it was like, what was the point of that? I think that if we did more of, like a mentorship here, sure where it's like, you know, you gotta, even if you're in high school and you take a gap year, go, go work in the film industry, because you can find 10 kajillion independent films going on every day in this country and, you know, or even over the world, find out, this is what you want to do. Yeah, a lot of actresses, I mean, and I want to ask you this question. In my opinion, a lot of actresses, and I hate to pick on the females, but, but a lot of actresses don't actually like acting. I think they like them. They like the idea of being famous in this just speaking strictly in my experience in the New York Philly areas.

Will Ball 18:59
So, I mean, I do think that's, that's I think both genders definitely feel that way. That's a lot of people. And I'll take a step back real quick, just because I'm missing. You shouldn't go to college. You should never assuming. You should never stop learning. That's, that's essentially what it is. So like, even if you don't have to go to school to pick up a book, you know, like you, and you should pick up books and learn the basics of filmmaking, and then, because you need to know the rules in order to break the rules in order to break the rules. That's I totally believe that. But you don't need to go to cops like you can just pick up those books on your own. Having said about, like, about the talent, you know, yeah, a lot of people get into this industry for a variety of reasons. And it's funny, when I was actually starting off as an actor myself, I read in a book that was like, if you're getting into this for the money, you shouldn't be doing this. If you're doing this for fame, you shouldn't be doing this. And if you want fame, like, that's something you've got to kind of work on yourself for because, like, you know, like, that's not a reason to get into acting. And those are the people too, that once they start getting into acting, they get so discouraged so quickly. Once they hear no, you know, 10 times because they're not in it for the right reason, You know, like they start to doubt themselves, and whereas if you just genuinely love what you're doing, then you know, it doesn't matter if you're at the end of the day, you got you gained a new connection, you made a new had a new experience, like you learned something. But yeah, people are getting for those reasons. They definitely fall way harder and way quicker.

Dave Bullis 20:26
Yes, I mean, I've seen it too. Even just doing like productions around here, some people just, it's almost they like the idea of people telling them how great they are, this and that. And I think because this industry, even the modeling, the print the actress, where you know the filmmaking, whatever you know all of it is it ties in together, because it's under the entertainment field. You know what I mean. And I think a lot of times people use that for validation. I think they maybe get in there because they they feel that if they could succeed in this business, it's almost like a personal stamp on themselves. You know what I mean?

Will Ball 20:59
Definitely, no, I mean, and that's the thing, especially when you know, coming out to LA, oh my god, the egos out there are just insane. Like, I went, I walked into one party, one time in LA, and the guy who was hosting a party was watching his Snapchat stories on the big screen TV with all of his friends. And they're all just like, Latin like, What the hell am I looking at like? This is like, why are you like, you're watching your own Snapchat story on the TV, like your guests don't want to see it, but they were loving it. And just like, it's very like a, you know, everyone wants to, there is a part of that rat race. They just, they're trying to, like, I don't know, they're feeding into it for each other and like and for themselves in a weird way. And I don't know, like, if I had that same party, the guy was playing a record, and instead of just playing the record, he actually had a stand where he could showcase what record we were all listening to. And I'm like that right there. That's LA, right, you know, like that. Like, it's not just like, you can't just be cool. You have to be like, in your face too. Like, like, let me show you how cool I am. Like, and that not everyone in LA is like that. I'm not saying that, but I'm seeing a lot of people who are in the acting industry out there. They they're doing that because they have to be. They have to give so many other models and actors out there. They have to constantly be pushing themselves. So to some degree, they just don't know. They don't even know what they're doing. Until you're an outsider, you know, looking in, you're like, oh my god, what the hell like this is so egotistical and self serving and and dangerous. But like I said, those people, they crash hard. And I can, I don't, I don't have any of them at all.

Dave Bullis 22:26
Yeah, it's, I think some of them too, they, they still stay in because I think, I still think that they feel, maybe that they haven't given a fair shake, or maybe because some of them, I know, do burn out. And honestly, it's like that. That's what you need, honestly, because it's good for everybody, because it's good for them, because it shows them that they're going to waste their life, waste their time, waste their money, on something that, at the end of the day is going to make them happy.

Will Ball 22:51
I mean, more people need to be told, No, an hour of No. I very say that, yeah. But the thing is, like, just like, you know, which one of us wouldn't want to be, you know, a rock star or a famous actually, like that. Everybody wants that, you know, but like, very few are capable, let alone, or at the right time. I mean, I tell people this all the time, like, like, so there are people out in LA who are more talented than Johnny Depp Tom Cruise or whoever. You know, some of the these a list actors, and they will never make it because they weren't at the right place, at the right time, you know, like and, you know, so you can be as talent as can be, and if you're just not at that right moment, then you're not, you're not going to be discovered. You know, that's unfortunate.

Dave Bullis 23:23
But so do you think that's because they don't have good networking skills, or it's because maybe they just don't have, they're missing some kind of key ingredient, which maybe, you know, maybe that networking? Maybe that is it. Maybe do they just not have the ability to to build a network, or get somebody like you to just say, hey, this guy's talented as shit. Why isn't he working more?

Will Ball 23:49
You know, I don't think that is, I would say, I just, I think it's part of this industry. And then being successful comes down to luck. And I hate to say that, like, not and I hate luck. I hate like, I think, you know, you are the, you know, the maker of your own destiny, but at the same time, you know, there's only so much you can always so much, even I can do, you know, when I send out my talent to the clients, you know, I don't, I can't force my client's hand in picking someone, you know, I can't say, All right, I can try to coerce them and say, Hey, listen, this versus really great, and that person's really great, you know, you should, you, should you, this is the person you want. But the end of the day, it's really not even up to my clients. Sometimes it's up to my clients, clients. So it's really, you know, down, down the line, per se, or up the hierarchy. So yeah, I mean, networking definitely helps, and can increase your chances, but I think there are some people do everything right and just they still aren't successful. And that's that's unfortunate, but that's just how this industry is.

Dave Bullis 24:36
And well, I guess, you know, luck does play sometimes a bigger part than what we think. Yeah, and it kind of goes into the lottery. Some people who won the lottery, they've, I mean, that's all luck. I mean, you know, I don't think you can actually, you know, I don't think you compare to prepare to win the lottery, but we're trained to win the lottery. But some people have won the lottery. They've asked them later on, and some people said, Yeah, I deserve this. You know, and it's like, it's like the monopoly experiment, the monopoly experiment, which is, we play Monopoly against each other. And I started off with 90% owning everything, and then you had the potential to buy the other five, and I just dominated you. Yeah, they never this same. People never actually said, well, it was because I started off with a hell of a lot more than he did. They actually go, Well, I had better tactics, and I had a better strategy and this and that. Well, it's with Jesus, if you win the boy, if you're going into 95% of the board and you didn't win, either the other person was incredible, a genius, or, you know, just the odds were against you. But, but, you know, as we talk about this, why you moved out to LA? Did you move out to LA? Because you were sort of burned out from being in this area, which is the Philly area I'm talking about.

Will Ball 25:43
Not necessarily. I've a few reasons I moved out to LA. Number one, because, I mean, I've always lived here, and I've always wanted to live in LA, at least, just try, you know, if nothing else, just live in a different city, you know. And also, I had, contractually speaking, I had a non compete with my other employment. So I couldn't start my own agency, because I was doing by by these 18 months. So I was happy to do and and did and, you know. And so I figured, well, I might as well make the most of these 18 months. So let's work in the entertainment capital of the world, knowing that, you know, one day I would want to move back, start my own agency, and then to have that LA credential would just, I mean, dominate, you know, and just having those connections, let alone the experience, would make me so much more appealing to talent, to open up the names you like, said right here in Philadelphia.

Dave Bullis 26:30
So what was the impetus to actually move out? Like, what was it in your life where you finally said, You know what, I better just move out and then and setting that date? Was there anything that happened or you finally just said, you know, I better just do it.

Will Ball 26:41
So after I left my other place of employment, I took a vacation. Because I was, like, I have not had a vacation for three, four years. So I went out to Portland and in LA, and the people who I ended up working with in LA, they had a sister office in Portland, and I had met with them, had a beer with the, you know, the one of the guys who runs it, and he was, I mean, super great guy was just gelled so well, and I really respected the company, and they really dug me, and then, so that's essentially what happened, is, and when an opportunity opened up, I did tell it was, I would love to work in your LA office one day, when an opportunity actually opened up, he I was one of the first ones. He called and then interviewed through there. And that's so, yeah. So it kind of just so moved out. So up. So I moved out there without having a place to live, but I still had a secure job. And honestly, I think that would be my advice to anyone who's thinking about moving into LA is, do not move to LA unless you were invited. Like, there are enough people there. You, especially as a modeler actor like you, think it's glamorous to, like, be rough in it, but, like, you have no idea what roughing it means. You know it is. So everyone has these terrible, horrible stories about when they first got to LA, like, my one buddy, my fellow agent, he like, live with, like, in the house with, like, it was like a two bedroom house with like six people, and there was like a meth addict who lived in the in the garage, diamond laundry, he'd be harassed by her, like, it's not like in that. I mean, this is sort of saying, like, it's a model or action, like, like, God, like, no, no. Like, you don't realize the, you know, how hard. And it also just move out somewhere new and not know anybody. That's so frustrating. I mean, I was lucky enough to me and my girlfriend were out there, so we were able to kind of use each other and help each other out. But, like, even that was like, I mean, let's, you're here in, you know, in your where, you know, in Philly, and, like, your car breaks down, you can call someone, and they'll be there in LA your car breaks down, and you're just like, Well, fuck, I got number. Like, I have to figure this out. Like, I take a lift, or I've got it, you know. So there's a lot of like, it's very isolating out there. Oddly enough, even there are so many people out there, there's like, it's rough, like, it's really rough. And they said, and I don't envy talent, but honestly, like, that's why I tell now that I've been out there even, not even just talent, like, from writers, the you know, producer directors, is to stay home, like, stay in your in your home base, and like, and honestly, like, succeed there. Succeed there. And then, then move out there. Like, don't go to LA looking for success. Because you, I can guarantee you won't find it. You just will not find it. The market out there is so overly saturated. There are so many models, so many actors I'd walk into, like a Burger King, and it's just like a casting there's like, casting call for models. There's like, so many gorgeous people around. Like, what the hell around. Like, what the hell, where did I walk into it's just a Burger King. Like, it's just like everyone out there is trying to get the same trying to, you know, achieve the same dream. And, and it's just too many people, too many people, too many actors, too many models. I represent some talent out there who are, I mean, drop dead gorgeous. If they, if I represented them here, I'd be able to get them a ton of work, but out there, like, they sometimes they would only get, like, two, three callbacks a month, and they'd be like, Well, what happened? And like, I don't know, and be honest, what I think it is, it just, it's just too many people like, you have so many of like, yeah, you might be the top of you know, you might be the best looking person here in Philadelphia, but you go out to LA and they're the, you know, you're the best, you're with the best looking people of everyone in their city. So, you know, it's really and that kind of fucks with the talent said too, is just because, like, oh shit, like I was at the top, and now, like, I'm, you know, now there's people here, they're even prettier than I am, or more talented than I am, so that that's very frustrating, because there's just so many people, so many, so many models, so many actors, so many, so much talent. And that's why you see a lot of people leaving. And I think that's what needs to happen. Like, so like, to find success in your home. You know, if you're a director, right, or whatever, do it at home first. Like, because if you can't do it here, then you certainly can't do it out there. You know, absolutely not, you know, like, it's so much more easier to be known here in a smaller market than it is, you know, out there.

Dave Bullis 30:50
Yeah, I've told other people too, you know, if you live in if, let's just say you and I live in the middle of America, in a very small, small town, it would actually, it's actually a pro to live there, because if I make my movie, I know Tom at the at the, you know, the auto body mechanic shop. I know this guy, and there's actually a more of a willing to help you out, because, oh, that's cool. He's actually going out there and doing something. Because you go to LA and you're like, Hey, I'm gonna make a movie out here. Everyone goes, well, where's our paycheck? Yeah, I knew a guy who came out there, and every day he had breakfast in the same place, and he finally said, hey, I want to shoot a thing here. And they go, Okay, you could have to shoot up, you know, early in the morning. He was like, Okay. And they started telling him the rates. And he was like, Are you out of your freaking mind? I mean, he's like, it is astronomical. And he goes, I'm just gonna shoot here for like, three hours. Like, well, still, you know this and that, because not disrupting business, you know, you could still go out, you know what I mean. And it's just that's that whole thing is a big talent pool out there, and you have to be able to, you know, succeed wherever you are. And you know, I mean, you succeeded here, you know, I bombed out and started a palm kit podcast, but, but, you know, slowly building myself back up, and I think you basically now you're ready to go to the next level in your, in your in your professional life, right?

Will Ball 32:11
So that's why you start. You know, when I was in LA, like, I loved LA, I really did I love LA. I didn't really want to leave. I still miss it. I hope to one day open an office there. Like, I would definitely want to go back that being said, financially speaking, it is a bitch out there. And like to and people, you go out there and you think you can rise above it, you think that you know you can, you know you can overcome it, but you can't. Like for me and my girlfriend to see a movie, any movie on, like, a Tuesday afternoon, $60 for two tickets. Jeez, yeah, to 60 bucks. No luck everyday movie, you know, like, so it's like, if you're like, the cost of living out there, it's crazy. And that's, once again, if you go out there as an a model or actor, you better have a big nest egg, a really, and that's gonna go quick, even, even still, you know. So it is just, the cost is just crazy out there. I mean, it's a good Dairy Queen. A blizzard was like, eight bucks. I could live like a king. Here we came back. We're like, Oh my God. Like her money goes so much farther.

Dave Bullis 33:04
Like, what was in New York, I was saying I bought a Red Bull up there too, because I had to take it in there. There were $5 a can for the smallest can possible. I mean, the dinky little eight ounce ones. It was like 525, each. I'm like, Huh? I bought four of them. It was like, it was $21 No, no. It was 22 something. Because tax everything. I'm like, Jesus, God, yeah, yeah. And it's it just it was, but I was like, You know what? You win this Rambo day. I needed those Red Bulls.

Will Ball 33:33
And when we were leaving, I talked to a friend. He's like, Yeah, well, like, in order to make it out on La in order just even to get by, we're not even living comfortably. We're just saying, just saying, just to make it, you have to make at least 80 grand a year, at least. And honestly, and the wage gap out there is so apparent. Like, you see people, I mean, in Lamborghinis and Maserati, like all I drove, you drive through the hills every day, and you just see, like, the money out there, and there is a ton of money out there, but like, all these people brought it in, or from outside, or, you know, like, like, the gap between, like, the rich and the poor out there, it's just so evident and just so drastic. And so they everyone, like, you know, I hate to say, but there's, like, so many homeless people. There's so many home and there, there shouldn't be the amount of taxes you're paying out in LA, like, you should, they should take care of the homeless problem. There's so many homeless people there, and there are people on the streets asking for money, for rent, and it's like, damn, like, you know, like, that's how, like shit. I mean, I It's like, we're all struggling to get by with rent, you know. And there's also like, the gentrification is really apparent out there. I mean, that's how, you know, we lived in North Hollywood, which was also in the midst of being gentrified. And gentrification such a double edged sword, where that eventually happens is that you get priced out, like you live there until you cannot, you know, until you're told that to get moving. So, yeah, so, like, I definitely like the way there's some of that. There's one homeless guy out there. I just see him every day driving home from work. He had a sign. It was like, follow me on Twitter at that. La homeless guy.

Dave Bullis 34:56
Really that? La homeless guy.

Will Ball 34:58
I think, I think something like that. It was. Wasn't that specifically. It was like, Jesus, like, if we're in, LA, I actually have to follow him after, yeah, look him up. La, homeless guy, I'm sure he takes like, online payments.

Dave Bullis 35:11
Yeah, right. Oh, that's even better. I can, like, send him, like, Air Tip.

Will Ball 35:14
Well, that's honestly, like, most of the homeless people out there, I tell them, like, Listen, I don't carry cash on me. Like, if you had a card reader, give you a buck. But like, I literally, I have no cash on people.

Dave Bullis 35:25
I don't carry cash. When the Uber does, I actually, I pay for these cheeses with a credit card online. I was like, See, I order go online, order through seasons website, yeah, and they had to deliver it because I got, you know, I don't carry cash, yeah? Who carries cash?

Will Ball 35:36
And no, no one does. Yeah. That's why every time I go to restaurant, even here, it's like, oh, cash only. I was like, Ah, shit. Was that ATM, you know, but, yeah, so like, moving back, essentially, was, for me, was it was a step up, because I knew that like that, even as an agents perspective, you know, like, you know, you're making money for someone else. I want to make money for me. And you know, from a fairly purely financial aspect, it's like, well, then what is an agency really doing for me? That if I just didn't take six months off, I couldn't do for myself, you know, like, So, and that's what, essentially, I've been doing for the past six months, is just learning how to open up a business. Because just because I'm a good agent doesn't mean I'm a good businessman. So, and learning, you know, QuickBooks, learning how, you know, hiring a lawyer, doing all this stuff and branding and all that fun stuff. And I love it because it's something completely new. But in my mind, you know, I You want a job where you have people working to make you money. You're not the other way around. Yeah? Like you gotta, I don't know you want. You want to be upstream, for sure. So that's yeah,

Dave Bullis 36:34
Episode 99 I had on Morgan J Freeman, who set the record for Sundance. He actually became the first director ever to win like the Triple Crown. Very good story about him, about what you know, what happened to him? Sure, he's very open and honest about it, but he had, he had a saying that I still sticks with me. Now it's green light yourself. Green light yourself. He goes, Do not wait for anybody else. You have to green light yourself. And you have to put those opportunities. Those opportunities to create your own opportunities, yeah, because it's not going to come to your door.

Will Ball 37:08
You know, I think it's also true for our generation as well. Because, I mean, going back to the college thing, so like we have people right now our generation, when we were in college, we were told, my professors told me, all the time, you're fought like there are no jobs out when you once you leave college. And so we all left college, and we had a ton of student loans now, and which many of our generation is still paying off. That's why they can't afford to move out, because that rent money is essentially going to the student loans so. But so we graduated college, there were no jobs for us. There was a recession which hit, and then the job market start coming back. Well, then this is this gap, if you look at people which our generation, and there are people older than us who have experience, and people younger than us who have a better, more current college education. And then there's just us. So it's just like, we got no experience, we don't have a current education. So now what? And honestly, and part of my thinking is like, Well, honestly, it comes to starting your own business, you're gonna have to, like, you're gonna have to, like, I said, green light yourself, and you're gonna have to, if you want any chance of being successful, you've got to just do it on your take that leap, take that jump, you know, and just, if nothing else, just try.

Dave Bullis 38:09
Yeah, no, absolutely. That's why I started this podcast. You know. I wanted a chance this to I know no one will probably hire me as their podcast host. Started this podcast now I get people actually try me and ask me how to set their own podcast. Like other opportunities have come in where I've had to been, like, no, no, no, maybe yes to this, and just different stuff, and I have nothing that's yours.

Will Ball 38:31
That's what I love about my own business. It's my business, yeah? Like, like, you fail or succeed, it's all based on you. And, yeah, that's a lot of pressure, yeah. But the same time, like, use no one else to blame. You know, there's no you don't have anyone over your over your over your shoulders, telling you do this, do that. You just have, although we do answer to somebody. But you know, when you have your own business, it's like you, you are the one and only. And that's, I really love that feeling. I love that feeling, and I it motivates me, and I think it's, I'm sure it does for you as well. And just like, it's just great to know that, like it's your baby,

Dave Bullis 39:00
Yes, yeah. Because, you know, you get a chance to do everything here with starting this podcast, I kind of, you know, Mark Maron has his own setup. This was like four or five people. I kind of modeled this after the Nerdist with Chris Hardwick, Mark maron's WTF and a couple others. And you know, the one guy that I've kind of modeled this after, he's got, he does everything just like I do, where, basically he edits it, he helped promotes it. It's like a one man band. I'm trying to go beyond that right now and just sort of get, get out there a little more. But we know, going back to, you know, you starting your agency, you know, you I think it launched last month, right?

Will Ball 39:37
Oh, no, we didn't launch yet. Oh, you haven't launched yet. So I moved back here in October, still been learning, and still been, you know, taking the appropriate steps on how to form an LLC and, you know, get my EIN and all that fun stuff. And so we are not quite open yet. We're actually going to be opening up. I was hoping for April 1, but now I'm thinking may 1, just because I it's funny when you open your own business, when it comes down to just you, you can get a lot done very quickly. As soon as you start relying on someone else, your business slows down to a crawl, you know, and nothing you know. It's not you know because the other people being lazy. It's just because you have to rely on other people and they're swamped with other things. So when you have to start relying on other people, that's when, when things just really slow down. But you know, so right now we have our website is about to be built. It's the same people who do all the big guys up in New York City, Wilhelmina, affordably, same people who build their website, they're building our website, we're gonna get the top of the line booking software, which is gonna be awesome. So no one else here in Philadelphia has the booking software that we will have. So really, really proud about that. And so yeah, so right now we're doing that as well as, you know, doing some stuff with the state of New Jersey. I still have to get my licensing, but in order to get a license, you need to have an office. And then in order to get my sag, you know, become a member of sag, which we will be sag franchise, you need to have your licensing and then also have an office. So I didn't want to sit on an office for too long and not actually be using it. So we're actually going to start the lease probably next week, with the office, the actual office space.

Dave Bullis 41:16
How did you actually find the office space?

Will Ball 41:18
I mean, just in the when we looked at our startup funds, you know, I wanted a good portion of the store funds to go to the website, the website, because that is what I mean, makes or breaks a company these days, especially in this industry. I mean, it's all about the website and how professional it looks. So we want the best website, not only Philadelphia, but also one that we can heat up in New York City, because we're really focusing on on Philadelphia, DC and New York City. I'm trying to kind of bridge those three cities, which is why we open up in Jersey, or we're opening up in Jersey. But I'm sorry, what was the question again?

Dave Bullis 41:49
Opening your office.

Will Ball 41:50
Yeah, okay, the office, yeah. So the office, we just went with one of those. There's Regis, like, we workspaces, you know, it's not, no one's gonna be in my office. The office just for me. I'll say I'm probably not even gonna be my office most days, you know, like, I'm always on the go, always on the Rhine and working for my laptop and and so is everyone else in this industry. So so long as you answer the phone like, you know, like, then that's all that matters, no matter where you're working. My clients are in their pajamas, not the time I talk to them, so they don't care.

Dave Bullis 42:18
So I don't know how much you could talk about this. Yeah, but you mentioned startup funds, and I think that's pretty cool, because, by the way, you mentioned EIN number, which, by the way, everyone listening, that's the the dreaded tax number that you have to use to pay your tax. Oh, but I've been down that road many a times I see that I'm like, Oh, the tax fans are coming. You could piss off the mafia. You could piss off a lot of people don't piss the IRS. Well, they got Al Capone. Okay, you are not gonna get by them. So, so where, if you can talk, how did you raise your own startup?

Will Ball 42:52
Well, you know, it's funny. Like, one thing I thought, going into this business and or being on my own business, like, oh, I can find a loan, or I can find like, or the banks will hand it out. Fun fact, banks do not give out the small business loans. That doesn't happen. You know this, there's really not, you can't even use your reversal funds, really as leverage or your credit. It doesn't really work like that. A lot of a lot of companies are actually funded by on their credit card Yeah, which is crazy, because, you know, the credit card companies can jack up their prices, you know, or their interest rates, or what have you. So a lot of I just, I never knew that. I felt like the banks would be willing and happy to give me a loan. But, no, it's not management. I have a really good credit score, and it like not to brag, but I'm just saying, like, that's, I was like, oh shit.

Dave Bullis 43:34
Like, yeah, they want collateral, or they want some, like a co signer, or, you know, because I got to break your legs

Will Ball 43:41
So so a lot of, like I said, a lot of small businesses just done through bootstrapping. And for us, we were able to secure a private investor who was willing to front the whole startup cost with that is awesome. It was great. It was really, really lucky to have that. And really, I mean, that we wouldn't be able to run if it wasn't for that load, or rather, would have taken a lot longer. So really, really appreciative and grateful for that. But yeah, so that's essentially how we started.

Dave Bullis 44:12
That's awesome, though. Thank you. By way, I just took a bite of cheese stick. But Well, as you sort of go now, where did you come up with the name of VI.

Will Ball 44:17
So what I want to do is I want to make sure that, like when we open up our agency, we're not on the defense, we're very much on the offense. We want to compete, we want to attack. We want to make ourselves known. So by just definitely kind of fit more in tune with that, as well as even our I mean, our logo, or the VI lettering, is like a crimson red for a reason, because we want it to be, you know, known as, as you know, aggressive. So if I definitely was fit in real nicely, I just like to having a three letter name sounded good. It just seemed to fit well with, like, you know, forward, elite VI. Well, I mean, you know, just kind of fit nicely in there as well. I just having, you know, additional implications. And. Like, kind of going in with the brand, but then also the URL was a big thing. So we had vi agency, calm was available. No one else. I mean, and I had gone through, there was a good 10 other names which I also would like, but, you know, they weren't available because the URL was, like, $1,000 or, you know, so that's a, I mean, with the website, it's something you really have to consider when you're naming your business, is it? Businesses, is it available? And it's someone else? Does someone else have it? And, you know, and I think there is another, there might be another vi agency in, like, Germany, or something like that. But like, it's, like, it's so like, that's, you know, that's not a big deal, but, yeah,

Dave Bullis 45:36
Was one of the other names, like a play on, off of your name, like, on the ball on the ball agency here,

Will Ball 45:41
People ask they do, like, like, of course, like, you get like that the balls models, because the Zoolander thing, and like zulais is like, the bane of my existence. I hear fucking Zoolander jokes every day of my life, and it's so,

Dave Bullis 45:53
What do you think of Zoolander, 2?

Will Ball 45:55
I didn't see it. Oh, there's garbage. So I'm like, did you see it?

Dave Bullis 46:00
I see, I see, I see a lot of movies. Will I see a lot?

Will Ball 46:03
I mean, I do too, but I just that one. I was like,

Dave Bullis 46:08
There was one funny part and the rest of it. I was like, What the hell happened? It's like, it's almost like all of the the the funny and the scenes and the the the craftsmanship of the first film was all lost, really. And it was, like, it was just almost, like, like, we weird. It was almost, it felt like that early 90s comedy theme, yeah.

Will Ball 46:29
Well, that's the thing. Like, like, those kind of companies don't work anymore. Like, like, I think the first one's kind of like lightning in a bottle, in a way. And that's,

Dave Bullis 46:36
There was one foot. There was one funny part, though, in Zuleika. And I'll just tell you what it is, because you're probably never gonna say, I'm not. So what is it? Move Festo Mufasa, Mufasa, yeah, he's in jail, and His Will Ferrell, and he actually has a way to break out, right? So he gets Derek zulander come into the jail, and he's like, here's my plan to how I'm gonna escape. And he has fashioned a Derek zulander mask that is so shitty looking. And he's actually flashed in another Miss looks like him to put on Derek. So now Derek is chained up with the Mufasa mask on. Well, Mufasa walks out this Derek zuleira mask on. It's so blatantly obvious that was like, oh goodbye, Derek. He's like, it's act that was actually funny. Everything else. I was like,

Will Ball 47:18
I just watched the Dumb and Dumber. Or I just, I, honestly, I turned it off, and I never turned off movies, but like, it was like, I got, like, 25 minutes, and I'm like, I can't,

Dave Bullis 47:29
You know what that part is, it doesn't get any better. I very rarely ever turn off movies either. That's why I've always said the first one was so good. I was actually just talking about yesterday, and then, I saw that one, I was like, What the hell happened?

Will Ball 47:43
I feel like comedy is in a bad state right now. Like, you know, the funniest movie last year was pop star never stopped, never stop. Okay? I mean, that was, it was great. It was awesome, and no one saw it. But as far as, like, comedies are concerned, like, it just, they're so piss poor and just half ass. And it's sad. Yeah, comedy needs to come back. And now, like, the Judaizers are over. Like, those comedies don't work anymore. Even those guys are, like, I mean, I had really high hopes for Sausage Party, and that was just, you know, it wasn't bad. I definitely like the story of it, and, like, some of the plot points and the villain was awesome, but like, there's a jokes on a smaller level, just did not keep that movie going, you know,

Dave Bullis 48:19
You know, I think the big problem is, and I'll call King aside him. No, talking about comedy is gotta get that. I was saying, okay, aside but was that is the fact that it's almost like comedy has come down to two scenarios. First scenario was this, you're the straight man. I'm gonna be like, the you know guy. You're like, Oh, I got a problem, Dave, and this and that. And I go, Oh, yeah, why don't you give her the old motorboat, and you're like, motorboat. What's that? Oh, come on, it's that, that scenario.

Will Ball 48:45
Or second Dave Need Wedding Dates.

Dave Bullis 48:47
Or the other one is, the other side of this is, you know, we harp on something. Like you, you come in and do something, and I just harp and harp and harp on it. Oh, that was dude. Did somebody say boner or something like that? You know what I mean? Like, you come in and you and you like, do something like, oh, it's awful this. And we just keep harping on that. And I see every comedy they if you think, if you look out, you're not gonna be able not to see it. Now that I mentioned seriously, they're gonna follow one or two of those templates. They're gonna follow model one or model two. But every scene, no matter what's going on, that's what it's like, every joke has that's why, when workaholic season three, they had a board of shit that should be stopped.

Will Ball 49:25
Yeah, yeah. I like that a lot. I think that's a really, like, smart way to do that. And I mean, even, like, honestly, I think also this, this improv movement, has gone too far. That's why, like, Ghostbusters doesn't work at all. Because you can tell, like, they were just on set and they're like, all right, be funny and just keep going and just, but that's not funny. Like, that's like, that doesn't make good comedy. And it just doesn't, there's some degree of that movie just didn't make the jokes just didn't make sense. Like, it just it was so nonsensical and just so confusing. And, like I said, but like, you cannot just improv. Like improv. It's kind of like, only a few people can do that, you know, like looking at, like, the days of like, Reno, 911, like. I was so funny. Like, most of that was improv that's crazy. Like they were talented. They knew they were all on board. Even that was, like a niche that now everyone's doing that back then, and you don't need to, you can't make a movie out of it. Just write on your you know, when you're screenwriting. Just be like, make screenwriting, just be like, make jokes, you know, like banter.

Dave Bullis 50:25
You know, the best part of Ghostbusters, the remake was the ongoing joke that Melissa McCarthy in that Chinese place. Yeah, that was the funniest like

Will Ball 50:35
That, because I could relate to that. And like I did, and I know other people kind of sitting on that joke, but I did. I agree. The only thing that was like, Huh? Like, I just, like, gave a half smile, like, okay,

Dave Bullis 50:42
About the Chinese place she goes, it should be up here in 10 minutes. And it's, like, one prime or whatever. I thought that was hilarious. And I was like, that's the stuff they should have been heart focusing on more. And then when Bill Murray came in there, oh, geez.

Will Ball 50:55
Like, you waited, like, you specifically didn't do Ghostbusters just to get this role, like, got the fuck out of here. Like, you suck. Like, like, all, like, all those cameos were just, like, so forced and so, like, it's just painful. Like, and that's, it's not like, it's not, honestly, I blame the it's not the women. It's the man behind the movie who like, and I like feet. I think he has some good like, he directed some of my favorite office episodes. Like, he has the capacity, yeah. But like, lately he's not been bringing it. I don't know what's what this deal is, but whatever comedy. So comedy sucks right now. And like I said, Never see pop star. Never stop. Never stopping. If you have it,

Dave Bullis 51:28
Well, I'll link that in the show notes as well. But so basically, now VI, it's opened up now, and people can submit to be represented.

Will Ball 51:28
Yeah, we're so we're not, we're not open, like we're not, we haven't opened our doors yet, but we are accepting early applications.

Dave Bullis 51:33
Yeah, as I was trying to say, was that you're opening up for applications, like, meaning that you can now submit to you and to be represented. So basically, is there any criteria that for any actors or models or anything listening to this, should they be, you know, like, should, should you looking for certain somebody, or you're looking for a certain size shape, or you just open.

Will Ball 52:02
So, yeah, so obviously, there's different divisions. We have our modeling division and we have our acting division, acting division, we need people of every age, every size, every look, so long as they are experienced and they, you know, are talented by all me, like said, I want to see them. I want to know who they are. That being said, we are not representing any kids right now, just because, honestly, kids are double the work and have to pay, and I just don't, I don't want to deal with parents,

Dave Bullis 52:29
Just like, it being a parent, right?

Will Ball 52:30
Like, and honestly, like, I'm one person right now, so, like, I don't have time to deal with momagers and data jurors and just like that whole lot in a church. Oh, it's all it's also a great excuse for, like, when I go to the bank and people are like, Oh, you run your own business. What do you do? And I'm like, I'm with Allen agent. Like, oh, well, my kid. And I'm just like, Nope, we don't, we don't represent kids. Sorry, have a good day. So, but then, as far as actors, or to me, models are concerned, models definitely have a more a strict criteria. I mean, they should be above, if you're a female, they should be under or over to me, five eight, if you're a man, 511 at the very least. So I couldn't be a model. I'm sorry, I hate to shit on your parade or crush your dreams,

Dave Bullis 53:13
But because I am five foot 10.

Will Ball 53:15
Yeah, you just fell one in short. I mean, technically, two inches. But like, yeah,

Dave Bullis 53:21
Really, I could not be a model.

Will Ball 53:22
The reason being, because people always ask this is, like, so like, let's say a client comes to me and says, Okay, well, like, they have one sample size, and they say, That's and it's easier for them to find a talent who fits that sample size, rather than have 15 different sample sizes to fit that one talent, you know? So it's really not, it's not my decision. It's just like the clients are just, they have their sample sizes. So, so, yeah, but so and kind of like looking at who we're looking for, both models and actors, we want to represent two people, number one, people who have experience and have a headshot resume or have a really diverse portfolio if you're a model. Or number two, it's okay if you're green, but you have to, you know, be really on top of your thing. You know, you have to be professional, reliable, have a personality. So, you know, I we will be representing, you know, new faces, per se, but they have to be right on the ball. They've got to, you know, they've got to bring it so, and I have actually, like, a whole interview process that I go through that can kind of weed that out and figure out who really is. But, yeah, so, like said, if you're interested, by all means, just send me an email. Will at VI, agency, vie, agency, Comm, and I'll be happy to send you an early application form.

Dave Bullis 54:27
Well, see, I'm glad they were talking about this, because I we all know casting calls sometimes, and they charge for certain things. You know what I mean. And you and I have talked about this before where it's like, hey, you know why don't you come to this open casting call? Or you see him in the mall, you know what I mean, you'll see him on like a wall, like hey, we're looking for new faces for this or that. And then so people like me will come in and be like, hey, all right, I could be, you know, I could be an actor, whatever. So I signed, I go and they want to, want a fee. Well, here's the thing. I've seen this in Philly and New York too, in certain acts. Managers have posted on like, Facebook, whatever, hey, we I got an agent. Now I got a manager. And I'm, like, really this guy? Like, because, so it's not because. Forget about talent for a second. I'm gonna talk about personality. Some of these guys are such loose cannons. And I mean, like, I would never, ever cast them, even as a loose cannon. They're a loose cannon. I wouldn't cast as a loose cannon. So much of a loose cannon. So even the point I'm trying to make here is when those types of things happen, like, what's, what are some of the things that people should look for, for, in case something's a scam.

Will Ball 55:33
So like, the big thing that me opening up fine, the reason I actually came back from from from LA, was because I was being told by so many, both clients and talent, saying, Well, you know, there, there's a such a need here for a better agency, someone who, you know, knows what they're doing, who has experience in a bigger market, but also it's completely honest and transparent, and has nothing to hide. And that's really something we're really, really stressing. I mean, we go on our Instagram or our Facebook, like, very, very like, we are completely transparent. We have nothing, nothing to hide. We make our money only, or will make our money only through, through agency fees and commissions. So we only make money when the talent work, when they make money. So we will never charge for any sort of representation fee. No bullshit, website fees, like none of this stuff that, like even some honest agencies, eventually start tacking on, because they get start getting greedy. So, yeah, I would say, if you're looking out, looking for, like, trying to to, to prevent yourself from from getting involved with the scam, definitely the biggest red flag is, is the money, you know, if you have any sort of upfront cost, and because, I mean, if you run an agency like that, then you have a talent pool of people who are just willing to pay that money to get in, not necessarily, are they talented, you know. So it's a that's definitely the biggest red flag. Also, if you look at the contracts, if they're exclusive contracts, that's a big warning sign. You know, we offer non exclusive contracts. I don't want to limit anybody. I don't want to limit our talent. Like, hey, if you, you know, if you are already represented by someone and you want to go up in New York City, great sign with me. We'll see what we can do. But if, you know, you sign with me and there you get an opportunity out in LA to go work with someone. Yeah, I'm not gonna limit you. Go, do it. Go have fun, you know. Like, like, I never want to limit someone's opera, you know, opportunities. I just want the most and the best for our talents. So, yeah, there's a few likes these warning scientists honestly do your research, you know, and ask about that. Like, what jobs did they have they bought? Like, what, you know, who your biggest clients? When you go meet with an agency, you know, who tell us about some of the most successful models and actors that you've had and what they've done, you really got to do your research, no? And that's kind of, I see, too, is like people who sign with scams, you know, they just didn't do their homework, you know, like they or it's because, you know, some of these scans provide all these like services that you could really do for yourself, but because, you know, it's just like an easy, I don't wanna say lazy, but it is almost like a lazy way of getting into the business without really knowing many people or doing it the right way.

Dave Bullis 57:52
Yeah, yeah. And also, I've seen a lot of it as an excuse to sell, like headshots and stuff like that, like services, you know. ,

Will Ball 57:59
And that's like, like, we know that's the thing. Like, we never like, so for us, like, if you're I will say, if you're a model, are actually looking to get into this, like, you got to do a ton of work on your own before you come into an agency, before you go to an agent, you've got to get your headshot, you got to get your resume, you got to get your portfolio. If you're a model, like, you have to do so much work on your own. Like you're getting an agent is a step up, you know. Like, but you gotta pay your dues first. So, you know, you can't just come in with nothing like, because then I can't market you if you have no imagery, then, like, I'm not gonna charge. I will never ask for money to, you know, to get you photography. But instead, I'll tell you, go get some decent photography, like, and here, and I have a list of photographers, so I know and I trust, and I'll give them to you, but they charge. And, I mean, that's not my business. And, you know, but maybe you have a friend who's a really up and coming photographer, or you have a connection, yeah, shoot with them. I just need something to market you with, and I can't market you with nothing, but I'm never going to charge for that.

Dave Bullis 58:52
Yeah. And, you know, I've, a couple weeks ago, I saw a photo online from this from Italian agency, and they were saying something about, you know, we're casting models and this and that. And I looked at some of these models, and I'm like, yep, wait a minute here. I said, Am I missing something? And after this is over, I'm gonna show you the food. Because I don't, I don't know about this,

Will Ball 59:21
We will, yeah, no, I and, I mean, like, that is so sad I see that happen. And sometimes the nicest thing you can say to someone is, no, you know. Like, sometimes you know, and, yeah, like, that's where I think agents get, like, a bad rap, and casting directors get a bad rap. Like, I know as much as I love La La Land. Like, I hate that shit when they're like, sitting on casting directors or like, oh, you know, like, next, you know, like, oh, that woman. It's like, well, yeah, if you were in her position, then you'd be that mean too, because, like, you have to be, you know, like, sorry.

Dave Bullis 59:49
Well, can I say that I have never encountered a casting director like that, ever? Is that just weird? Like, I have never encountered,

Will Ball 59:55
Yeah, it's very, like, stereotypical like, and I have met a few who have been similar, but you know, at the end of the day, I said, even if you were to act that way, hey, you know you can, and you have to, in order to like, get the if you were seeing like, say, if you saw nothing but talent all day. You would be very short with people too, and you would be very like, you know, because you know immediately what you the client wants or doesn't want. So like, you know, like, it's easy to shit on casting, but they have such a hard job, you know. And I mean, it's not morally my job. I just, like, I'm an agent, so I work for the casting directors, but you know, it's just, I do not envy them. Like that is a very thankless and, like, it's easy to judge them and be like, Oh, you're so callous, You're so cruel. But it's like, they have to be, and a lot of people are, but you have to be.

Dave Bullis 1:00:50
So let me ask you this, when you audition for game over, which is my thing was, I was I good at casting? Right?

Will Ball 1:00:56
Yeah, you were great. Like, then you were, I very rarely run into that, that scenario, but, you know, but I still you should go in expecting, expecting it to be that, like, yeah, you know, like, like, so don't get your you know, don't get upset if you know, the casting director does just say, I mean, let's say next, you know, like, that's just part of the industry, you know. And like, just don't take it personally, you know. Like, yeah, you know, going back. Like, so there are a lot of, you know, sometimes you have to tell people No. You have to tell people No, and, you know, and

Dave Bullis 1:01:26
Big noise outside, ladies and gentlemen,

Will Ball 1:01:31
But you know, like, that's, I think, you know, you can tell a scam by just looking at their talent roster. Go to their new face board and see who's on there, and just take a look. And you kind of can, you can you can tell, I know when we open up, we're really going to be focusing on quality over quantity. So if we open up, we have 15 really solid, great looking people who are also reliable, reliable and professional. That's great. I'll just stick with those 15. I don't want to flood my boards. I don't want 40, 5060, people who I don't know are going to show up like I I tell all my talent all the time. I am not your employer. I am your business partner, and I do not go into business with someone who I do not trust 100% so, you know, like, I have to trust you as a person. I got to make sure you show up on time, you know, I gotta make sure that you in addition to being great looking or talented, you know? So there's a lot of aspects to being a talent.

Dave Bullis 1:02:16
Yeah, there really is Will, and you know, I know we're sort of talking about all this stuff. And, you know, I also wanted to ask, I know, not sure, it's just shift gears we start. No, no, it's bad, okay, but we don't. For forgets. Look at my notes, what I wanted to ask you. And for gigs, I know we've sort of kind of talked about, this is the writers group that you and I started, yeah, and, you know, I think that's another avenue of creating opportunities, sure, and what are some of the things that you took away from that writers group that we started? Like, about starting writers groups, because we don't do it anymore. You moved out to LA. I got burned out from everything in my life at that point, and I was kind of like, Get away from me. Everybody. Well, you know why? I mean, right, so, but, but, you know, what are some of the things that you took away from that group? That group?

Will Ball 1:03:02
You know what? Honestly, I think that I didn't really expect their writing group to be so much fun. I was really, I really loved and enjoyed going to our meetings, not even to talk about writing, but just to, like, hang out with, like, a great group of people, and that was really something that I really loved and enjoyed doing, and just to just be around hanging out, even busting each other's balls and sort of like that, like, that's fine, you know, but, you know, I learned a lot from that group. And see, like, it's hard sometimes, even just yourself to stay motivated to write, even if you did start the group like you, just sometimes you just lack the motivation. And then what I've kind of come to learn is like, you know, don't ever say that, like, you don't have time for something. You should instead say that like, that is not a priority right now. You know, like, and because you know it's any scenario, whether it's like, you know someone you're dating, or you know, or writing, you know, it's like, oh, it's not that you don't have time for that person. You don't have time to write. You do. It's just it's not a priority right now. And I think that's okay, that's okay to admit, you know, I don't think you should really force writing. You know, yeah, it's good to be in a habit. I think you got to look at to like, what your end goal is and what you really want to make happen. And especially as a writer, you really gotta, I don't know you gotta. It's easy to write these, like, huge sci fi epics and things like that. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, well, you're really limiting your chance of getting made. And that sucks. It sucks for a writer, especially because you're like, Well, I've really got to compromise now, and that's you have to compromise your artistic integrity. And you know, I know a lot of writers who are like, Oh, well, like, I will never sell out. I will never, you know, I could never. It's like, well, then you're never gonna get your movie made. I'm sorry.

Dave Bullis 1:03:50
Guys like me, who are like, you want me to sell out. Where the fuck do I? Sorry, I will sign right now. You want me to know, but, like, number price, just like, exactly that sums up the whole podcast, right there. I'm selling out. Everybody. I'm selling out. No, I, you know, all kidding itself. Side whenever, you know, I sit down and write a script, I always make sure, if I write something, it's like a big budget, and I know it's going to be, end up being a big budget, $200 million whatever. Always make sure I realize, I say to myself, this is like a calling card script, or a script you enter into a contest that could get you to the producers. And I've had friends who've done that very well because they wrote a script, the budget would have to be at least like one, 150 you have to get one of the top people in the world to do it like, meaning that the people who still can get movies made, which is a, which is a list, by the way, it's getting shorter and shorter. It's really like that budget. It really is getting shorter and shorter. If you don't have like, a certain somebody on there, like an A list actor, and that list is probably, you probably count on two hands. It's not gonna get made. So what they do is even get as a calling card script. And then finally, maybe someday, there's another star that Hollywood can can in a sort of, I don't want to say manufacture, but maybe Foster, line up. Yeah, because you know it. They see Hollywood for all their money and all the marketing, they can't actually choose the stars, because it's what movies get. You know, the public goes to see it, because what that's through mega star, Harrison Ford, when he was in Star Wars, didn't even think it was anything, you know, it wasn't gonna be. And he went to on vacation, I think, to Morocco, and they were playing it, and there was a big poster of him right outside. He goes, Well, he goes, I think this is the beginning of something amazing. And he said after that, like, people were just, you know, and then they became Star Wars. They did Empire Strikes Back, and then, you know. And now, now he crashes planes on a golf course. But seriously,

Will Ball 1:06:31
So like discouraging it, and just like disheartening to know that, like Han Solo is not,

Dave Bullis 1:06:39
Did you ever see the panel he did for Ender's Game at a comic con, and somebody raised their and he goes and listen as the moderator and listen everybody. We're not gonna talk about Star Wars. This is about Ender's Game. Yeah. First question out of the gate was, would Han Solo make a good pilot in Ender's Game? And he goes, Well, no, because he's a rogue. Second question, would Indiana Jones make a good pilot in Ender's Game? And he goes, that's the end of this. He left. He knew he was just gonna get killed. And the third question I would have been with Decker from Blade Runner, make a good pilot, because you could see where it was going.

Will Ball 1:06:54
Like, Bruno was not a very good movie. But the best part of that movie is when he goes up to Harrison Ford. Harrison for just like, Fuck her off an old curmudgeon.

Dave Bullis 1:06:54
Yeah. Chromogen, the Big Interview with Harrison Ford. Oh Christ. But you know, one thing I want that writers group, though, is Will is you start to realize that, and some of the things that I, as I was, you know, taking, doing the writers group I was taking, maybe taking maybe taking a course, or, you know, talking to the people who are out in LA or they're doing their own courses, or what have you. One thing is always that you don't, there's you shouldn't be obsessed with rules. Yeah, I think that's so. I mean, I think we all grew in that group. I think every single person got better.

Will Ball 1:06:54
They also have to listen to each other too, you know, like, yeah, you gotta, definitely have to be receptive to advice. And, and I would say, like, if one person is saying something, like, yeah, okay, it may or may not be true, but if, like, everybody in the group is saying something, then it's probably true, you know, like, and I think that's that's comes, you really, and that's hard, I think that's hard for writers to do, because you don't want to change. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes we've all been there, like, we think the scripts come like, like, really, go over really, well, everyone's gonna love it, and then you come in, everyone's just like, pissing and sitting on it. He was like, ah,

Dave Bullis 1:06:54
Every time for me, no,

Will Ball 1:06:54
It wasn't every time.

Dave Bullis 1:06:54
All right, 90% of the time. I honestly, I'm glad that the one script that I wrote that everyone liked was that crispy script, and I'm glad that nobody knew who wrote it. And everyone was glad Chris be was like, he didn't know who wrote it. Was it, was it you Matt. And Matt was like, No, we know. I will say, like,

Will Ball 1:06:54
I like our writers group, because it was so genuine. Whereas now, you know, after living out in LA, it's like, Jesus, you go to a bar. You're like, what are you doing? Like, Oh, I'm a writer. And just like, okay, like, yeah, one of, like, 1000 I've met today, you know? And I think, like, I said, it's just, it was nice to actually, like, do something and just be proactive and just be a group that was just very sincere. And I think, like, you know, we were all in it for the right reasons, if nothing else, just to create, you know, yeah.

Dave Bullis 1:06:54
And I think, too, that a lot of writers, I think, speaking as we talk about rules, I think the main problem with a lot of the screenwriters, whether it be in LA or New York or Philadelphia, I think everyone now has sort of gotten the quote, unquote rule books, and they're all writing for templates, yeah, and I think Now, because I've tried to write scripts through templates just to see how it would work, you know. I mean, like, you got to try it before, you know, you know. So I tried it, and I was like, this was okay. I wouldn't do this again. Because, I mean, you're really like, what the hell like, you're following, you know, step one, blah, blah, blah. So that step two, and it's just formulaic, you. Yeah, and it's just, I, you know, I look back so my favorite movies, and I don't remember any of them those guys, because I, you know, I'm a no, I tend to really get into what, whatever the project is like, you know what I mean? Like, if I see a movie I really like nowadays, we call it stalking. But I was like, you know, because, like, The Nice Guys, I thought the nice guys were the best movie last year. I thought that was a phenomenal movie.

Will Ball 1:03:04
I liked it. I unfortunately, I was a little I walked away a little disappointed. I didn't think I liked it as much. And there's a lot of people who I really liked, a critics, who I follow, who that was their favorite movie of the year. So I it was a really good movie. I really just, I didn't like it as much as I wanted to. For me, the witch was, was my favorite movie of last year. I just thought that was, like the horror film of of the past decade. Like, just, it was like, so like, damn, like this. It also feels like, generally satanic too, which is pretty badass. But, um, no, I think going back to that, like, I read some advice about screen rain that was like, screenwriting that was, like, don't worry so much about the act structure. Just keep building. So long as things are happening in building and progressing, then you're okay, you know. And I think that, to me is that's how I kind of, you know, took it, and just kind of really took that to heart, because I'm not really good at, like, the three act structure. I so it still kind of confuses me, to be honest, like, like, is any like, you have this structure, then like, people try to like, like, compare, like, the best movies in the past 10 years of this. And like, okay, really. Like, I can see like, that inciting incident, yeah, that page 20. Yeah, I get that. I think that needs to happen. But like, I just don't really. I think sometimes you, like, they try to force that template onto every film, and it doesn't really work.

Dave Bullis 1:03:50
Well, you know, I've realized this, and it's also from just talking to a lot of different people. One thing is, certain, some people who do that, who take a movie and they put it into their whatever template, or whatever, they're brilliant. They're not really screenwriting gurus or teachers or what have you. What they are is they're brilliant story analysts. They can take Star Wars, or they take Jaws, or they take Indiana Jones, and they put it to that template, and they sort of talk about it a little more deeper, and then they go to another deeper level. And hey, great. You know, you're that's great. We've just deconstructed Indiana Jones and jaws. But what does that teach us how to write our own scripts? Yeah, and, I mean, really, it's like a replication of it's like, hey, if I take a car and I totally take it apart. That's going to teach me how to build a car. It'll teach me about building a chassis, maybe, and maybe about what, how a car would actually work, because it'll be an internal combustion engine. We put gasoline. It's on four wheels. It has a chassis. But as far as the design of it goes,

Will Ball 1:03:04
Let someone else dissect your script too. Like it's funny, like I one of my short films was made by a group in Drexel film students and and they actually found me on a website, and they were like, hey, you know, and I'm like, Oh, I'm in the area, and they're like, Oh, would you like to come in and talk to the like, the class, because they would love to have you. I was like, Oh, shit. Like, yeah, it'd be great. Like, I'd be happy with you. So I went in, I talked to this full, big class of students, and there's just, like, picking apart my script looks right, and like, as far as like dissecting, like asking questions. And they're like, Well, what did you mean by this? And what you mean by that? And I was like, I don't know. I was fucking drunk and high when I wrote that. Like, oh, I met it. Like, you just, like, looked in into it, as much as, you know, like you wanted to look into it, you know. And like, and people, it's easy to do. And sometimes, like, you don't even realize it's right that you're doing. That you're doing that. And like best to let someone else, like I said, Yeah, let someone else pick it apart and gain meaning from it. You don't have to do that. Just, just

Dave Bullis 1:13:31
Write drunk and high, huh?

Will Ball 1:13:33
At the time. At the time,

Dave Bullis 1:13:34
What script was I ever read?

Will Ball 1:13:36
I don't think you did. Actually, that was my it was like, reparations or something that was like, it was about, it's like a interracial gay couple during the post Civil War. It was like, Yeah, is really convoluted, not that good, to be honest. And honestly, the film was film, but never saw the light of day. I don't know. I don't know the director failed the glass or what. But like, they had filmed, like it was a significant budget too, for the film too. And like, hey, how much I want to say it was about, like, five grand, really, yeah, like a Kickstarter, and they have people invest in it, and, like, and I never saw any of the footage of it. I was, like, really bummed out about it, too. So

Dave Bullis 1:14:22
I do remember when House of Horrors got picked up by that podcast, and they actually had a live show. Actually had a life that was fucking cool.

Will Ball 1:14:24
I actually had to take that script down, because I'm like, now that I'm opening up my own business like this, out in the world.

Dave Bullis 1:14:31
Did you ask me to take down the podcast too?

Will Ball 1:14:33
Um, you know, I don't know if I did. I should. I should get on that. It's something. No, because I asked him to make some changes to that and like that. I think, as a writer, you progress and they you definitely looking back. Definitely looking back of it like, it's just not like a script that I so I enjoy. But there's some smaller details on like, Nah, wouldn't have written that. Now, you know, like, things, things change. Culture changes. I change, you know, like, evolve.

Dave Bullis 1:14:53
Well, everyone gonna link to in the show notes. So listen to that as quickly as you can. So we'll, we'll, before will get that taken. Down because that's censored.

Will Ball 1:15:03
Listen, listen to the script. I still have a fun time with it. I just, you know, I just don't think, I don't think a lot of people would understand my either it's a few more. Like, what the movies I like to go see?

Dave Bullis 1:15:12
I think, I think it's, it shines through honestly. I mean, you're talking about the guy who wrote a script called slay the gay away, which was a, which was a, another satire script about, you know, a slasher to play the game.

Will Ball 1:15:26
I think there's a lot of times like, and I've done it too, where, like, I want the satire to come through, and I'm not necessarily, necessarily sure if it did, you know. And that's, you know, yeah, you see it a certain way, but how it's interpreted can be different and completely opposite of how you want meant it to be. So, you know, like, I think they have to be very mindful of that.

Dave Bullis 1:15:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very true. Well, very true, which is why, you know, lights competitions, I think, too, they're looking for certain scripts, because, like, certain scripts, I would never send other ones. I made that mistake one time. I actually sent a horror script that I wrote, but it was like a comedy horror in one of those competitions. And actually they teed off on poor bullets, man. They were actually went. I cried for days.

Will Ball 1:16:08
I went to, I submitted a screenplay to one of those Film Festival, horror film festivals as well. Didn't even make it through like the first round. And then I went to a movie when I was in LA I actually went to their like Film Festival and saw like, the top movie that had won for them, and it was garbage. It was like, terrible. It was like, I actually it was like, even, like, on an aesthetical level, it was so loud. And so, like, the noise was so, like, it was just constantly shrieking. I walked away with a migraine afterwards. And like, this is, like, so insulting on several levels, like, so, yeah, you know, the hell with it. You know, like, they want to find what they want. And if you try to be different or crazy or, like, especially my writing, I like to kind of push the envelope a little bit, you know, people don't. That's not gonna bode well.

Dave Bullis 1:16:49
Well, I think, I think that's why I always tell people gotta pick and choose what contest you enter, because that fee, no matter what, is an expense. Yeah, it does. That's what I mean. So that's why, when, whenever I hear somebody say, Well, I got this one script. I'm gonna enter in these 10 competitions. And I'm like, don't, don't, don't think, think smaller, smaller, less is more. And because I know a girl who won like 17 competitions, and it never got her job, yeah, it was just her network, yeah?

Will Ball 1:17:15
But yes, yeah, no, it's very true, very true networking. It's hard. I mean, it's cream links, it's just a whole different barrel jar. But luckily, with the internet, like I said, you don't have to be in LA, yeah, awesome. Like said, you can be here and right in the next award winning screenplay. And that's, that's what's so awesome about the internet, and that's even, that's where the film industry is changing so much, because you don't have to be in LA anymore, which is what I tell everyone, don't you have to be there. Don't have to be there. You moved to Atlanta. You're not gonna go to Atlanta. You know, they're filming tons of shit there. It won't dead, all the Marvel films. And go to Atlanta, you know, like, don't, don't, you don't have to be there.

Dave Bullis 1:17:49
Well, I want to tell you guys a vote of confidence. Well, that I'm gonna write my an award winning screenplay from here in Philadelphia. Yeah, acid on the mat. Well, I remember when we were doing game over and I was we got in the paper, we got in a bunch of different papers and websites, and this that the amount of people I had bugging me for shit was unreal. And I still have people coming to me, you know, from time to time about this podcast, not in a bad way, because all the people who tune in, I love you all, but no like, people who like message me and they're like, saying shit like, Hey, Dave, I can you get this producer to come talk to me? I had Cassian overs on here, who did Dallas Buyers Club. He's an A list producer. And they're like, Hey, we can we pitch him some can I get his contact info? Oh yeah, sure. I've built up all these relationships just to give them to you guy.

Will Ball 1:18:35
Why not? Like, people don't understand, like, how relationships work, and and some relationships, and especially this as an agent, like, are very new and very fresh. And like, you know, like, you don't want to test that like relationship, just yeah, like, you can't, like,

Dave Bullis 1:18:46
Remember that one guy who I won't name, who we always were talking about that he always seemed like a very needy person. Here, I'm gonna mouth his name to you.

Will Ball 1:18:55
Oh, yeah. And let me tell you, man. But also I can, as an agent, you can sense someone being fake from a mile away. I hate it about it, so it's the worst part of my job is when people are just like, you know that they just want something out of you. And, yeah, it reeks like, it just, it's like, the stench of just like, of just neediness and just, like, it's just, it's disingenuous. Like, I tell people all the time, like, like, and I've had people come up to me like, well, like, oh, you know, like, like, Hey, I'm, you know, I'm an actor. And like, let's just sit down and have a beer and let's be friends. I want to get to know, we won't talk about the industry, but let's just chill out and be friends. Like, no, I don't want to be your friend. I got enough friends. Like, if you came to me, it was like, Well, I want to pick your brain about, you know, acting or modeling. Let me buy you a beer and let me kiss your ass for like, an hour. I'd be like, Thanks for saying that absolutely, you know, like I'd be happy.

Dave Bullis 1:19:48
That's how I got you on this podcast. I lured you over cheesesteaks and ass kissing.

Will Ball 1:19:55
It's just so easy I feel like you don't need to pretend to be you. Someone you're not, you know, you don't like just enough people being fake and disingenuous in the world right now, you just be real and honest with people. And it's really refreshing to hear that in any profession you know, like, just cut through the bullshit.

Dave Bullis 1:20:21
Will Ball I think we're about out of time. Oh no.

Will Ball 1:20:21
Thank you so much for having me. This has been a lot of fun.

Dave Bullis 1:20:30
I know I hate to I we keep talking.

Will Ball 1:20:32
We have a lot to edit.

Dave Bullis 1:20:34
Yeah, well, I'm just saying we're just about out of time. Okay, where can we find you out online? Yeah, so I think it was a good spot to end it, by the way. I think just be seriously, yeah.

Will Ball 1:20:44
So you can go to my website via agency.com it is a temporary website up right now. I'm pretty soon that will be replaced by a much more professional looking website. You can just send me an email. [email protected]. You can find us on Snapchat, on Instagram, at vi agency, or you can just send me on Instagram as well. I'm just willy buttz, B, U, T, T Z, my dad used to always call me Willie Butts. So, W, I, L,L, I, E, B, U T, T Z, so yeah, follow me on Instagram. Say hello. I'd be happy to say and give any advice that I can.

Dave Bullis 1:21:15
Yeah, and I'll link to all will of Will's contacts in the show notes I know probably, and I always, as of right now, also link to all your show notes, or, sorry, all your social media channels, because I was obviously promoting this upcoming appearance. Questions did come in. I think we got to a lot of them. That's usually what happens, usually in the course conversation. Notice these questions get answered, unless it's something completely outlandish, like the first question for Cassian was, how can I pitch you? I was like, I told him, I said, and he's like, you know, let's just ask it. I said, all right. And I asked him that. And he goes, if you're really good, he goes, you'll know how to pitch me. Yeah, that was how he answered it. And I thought that was so it's a cool way to answer Yeah, because I was like, Well, I got his contact info now, no, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But, but, yeah, it's just, it's just funny stuff. Yeah, Willie Butts,

Will Ball 1:22:02
Thank you so much.

Dave Bullis 1:22:04
Appreciate it. Yeah, it's been, it's been a year and a half. Too long, too long. You gotta come back on some time when you're, when you're when you're rich and famous, and I really have to, like, kiss your ass me. I'm still gonna be, I'm gonna be living in, like a street, some corner, so I'm gonna be that guy on the street begging for change money,

Will Ball 1:22:26
Just like that. Aston homeless guy,

Dave Bullis 1:22:28
That Aston homeless guy. And that's all put Aston on the map. Willie Butts. Thanks a lot, man. I really appreciate it.