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IFH 021: Wakaliwood: Uganda’s Quentin Tarantino

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Imagine you were back in the early 1900s when the film industry was a newborn. People were learning and experimenting with the new technology of moving pictures.

Craftsmen were excited about discovering new ways of creating art with this powerful and amazing new technology. You would think that could never be recreated in today’s high tech world but you would be mistaken.

May I introduce you to Wakaliwood. A remarkable filmmaker by the name of Isaac Nabwana from Ramon Film Productions has created the Ugandan film industry, almost single handily without having any of the filmmaking knowledge or updated filmmaking technology.

As we get to study the giants that came before us like Orson WellesStanley KubrickMartin ScorseseDavid Fincher, and Akira Kurosawa, Isaac only had his imagination and his undeniable passion for telling stories.

Isaac is easily one of the most passionate filmmakers I’ve ever met. With all the opportunities and technology we in the United States take for granted, he created an entire film industry with basically string and tape.

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May I introduce you to Wakaliwood

I saw this amazing documentary on VICE about Isaac and Wakaliwood and was blown away. I had to have him on the Indie Film Hustle podcast. Take a look below.

Isaac and his team have created over 40 feature films in the past 8 years, with their most popular and successful film being “Who Killed Captain Alex.” Their passion oozes out of their films in a way you couldn’t manufacture even if you tried.

Speaking to Isaac I discovered that some of his favorite films he had never even seen. How’s that possible you ask? Well his brothers would go to the movie screening room in the village, they then would rush back home and weave the tale of what they just saw for their little brother.

His favorite film is the 80’s classic action film “Commando” starring the legendary Arnold Schwarzenegger. When you watch Isaac’s films you see a strong influence of 80’s action films, Chuck Norris and Chinese kung fu films.

The Ugandan Quentin Tarantino

Isaac Nabwana is an extremely brave filmmaker. He decided to become an artist in an environment that doesn’t exactly make it easy for an artist to make a living. He supports his family with his art and understood early on that this was a business. Something Indie Film Hustle preaches daily. His stories of marketing his films on the streets and bazaars of Uganda are hilarious and the definition of an indie film hustler.

He coined the term “Wakaliwood” in hopes of generating attention from the world filmmaking community, and it’s working.

He recently held a Kickstarter campaign asking for $160, the entire budget of one of his feature films, and ended up with over exceeded its target by more than 8,000%, bringing in more than $13,000.

Ramon Films Productions focuses on the action genre and bases the storylines of the films about life in Uganda, with an entertaining twist. This is what has made Isaac’s films so popular in Uganda and has made him a local celebrity.


An Ugandan Movie Theater

Ugandan cinemas, or video halls, typically have two television screens: one for a football game (with the sound turned off) and the other for the feature presentation. In lieu of subtitles, the VJ (Video Joker) provides the necessary exposition so the audience can better understand the movie. The joke was that VJ’s didn’t know the story either and just made it up – and a comedy act was born.

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A “Video Joker” is a live narrator that can best be described as a cross between an enthusiastic cheerleader, stand-up comedian, and slum tour guide. Uniquely Ugandan, the first VJs appeared in Kampala in the early 80s.


How to make Ugandan film gear

Uganda is an emerging film industry. Professional film equipment is extremely hard to come by, but in the Ugandan villages, anything is possible.

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Wakaliwood’s replica of Rambo’s M60. Bullets are carved from wood!

 

Bisaso Dauda is Wakaliwood’s prop master (and one of their leading actors). A mechanic, Dauda uses scrap metal to build their heavy weapons and camera gear including dollies, cranes, and even our 16′ jib that works amazingly well for being built from spare car parts.

Watch these two videos on the behind the scenes on how they make their props and film gear.

 


Ugandan Post Production and Visual Effects

Isaac builds his computers from whatever used and scrap parts he can conjure up. His computer systems last two or three months at best, eventually falling victim to heat, dust, and power surges.

He taught himself Adobe Premiere 1.5 and Adobe After Effects by reading the help files. There was no internet in his village when he started on his filmmaking journey, so no youtube tutorials for him.

Isaac’s special effects have earned him the reputation in Uganda of being a powerful witch doctor – even by the local Police, who still do not understand how he can make a bullet come flying out of a wooden gun.

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Isaac’s editing system (left) and his family getting DVDs ready for market (right)

Making things even tougher, there’s no film distributors in Uganda. Wakaliwood must sell and market their films themselves, selling door-to-door in around the slums of Kampala, with the occasional road trip to larger towns when money is available.

When a film is ready for distribution Isaac and his family burn, label, and package the DVDs at home when electricity is available. Copies are sold for 2500 UGX (about 90 cents US). Half goes to the actors who do the selling (yes the actors are the sales force), the remaining goes back to Wakaliwood.

Expenses are as follows:

  • Blank DVD  500 UGX
  • Electricity    100 UGX
  • Label            100 UGX
  • Artwork         80 UGX
  • Packaging     40 UGX

This leaves approximately 400 UGX (14 cents US) for Isaac, his family, and Wakaliwood. The number is even lower when costs for transport and spoilage are factored in (DVDs that won’t play, or are damaged due to power fluctuations when burning).

Wakaliwood actors face many challenges when attempting to sell their films. First, most Ugandans don’t even know Uganda even makes movies. The first hurdle is to convince a potential buyer to take a chance on something they don’t think is possible.

The second hurdle is the cost. A pirated copy of US action movies – Furious 7 or Jurassic World, for example – can cost as little as 500 UGX. So why would someone pay 2500 UGX for a Ugandan action film?

Because of the rampant piracy in Uganda, Wakaliwood has roughly 6 days to make money on each new release, as by that time the film has been copied and selling in Kampala for much less than Wakaliwood can afford.

Isaac receives phone calls every week from fans of Who Killed Captain Alex from all over the world. He has no idea how they were able to watch the film.

Alan Ssali Hofmanis: The Supa Fan

Now if that was not enough of a story I’ve got a twist for you. Half a world away, in a bar in New York City, Alan Ssali Hofmanis is watching the trailer for “Who Killed Captain Alex” on a friend’s iPhone.

He’s in awe of what Isaac and his team are doing in Wakaliwood. Without having any contacts in Uganda or even knowing how to contact Isaac he purchases a one-way plane ticket to Kampala, Uganda’s capital, for $1,450.

Alan had saved $16,000 for a wedding and honeymoon, had almost twice that in available credit card limits, and had stockpiled a ton of frequent-flier miles and vacation time from his film festival programming job.

He did find Isaac and soon became a fixture at the studio. Since then he became a Ugandan action movie star. I can’t make this stuff up.

Adopted by the Nkima (monkey) clan and given the name Ssali, Alan sold everything he had and moved into Wakaliwood. He is now a partner in Ramon Film Productions and is helping to bring their films to the international market place.

 


The Inspiring Podcast

_82938790_624ximg_8249-copywebOn this podcast we get a true understanding of what the definition of “passion” is. Alan Hofmanis and Isaac Nabwana open up on how they make a Wakaliwood action film, how Isaac taught himself every aspect of the filmmaking process and what he would like to see Ramon Films Production and Wakaliwood become on the world stage.

I always hear excuses why indie filmmakers don’t pull the trigger on making their independent film. Like not enough money, I don’t know any screenwriters, don’t have the camera I want, can’t get name actors, don’t understand post production, can’t find people to help and the list goes on and on. I hope this podcast lights a fire under the asses of every indie filmmaker that listens to it.

Isaac Nabwana understands his audience and how to market to them. He figured out his niche and exploited it. He has built a sustainable business as an artist in a world that has no RED Cameras, accessible hard drives, computer gear, VOD, IMAX, Netflix, iTunes or RedBox.

He isn’t caught up on what the latest camera is, should I shoot 4K or what version of AVID am I editing this on. Isaac just wants to tell stories that mean something to him and his fans. Is there really anything purer an artist can do?

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He sells home-made DVDs of his films on the streets of Uganda. If Isaac can create an entire film industry with MiniDV cameras, editing on Adobe Premiere 1.5 and building all his grip equipment, dollies, tripods and jib arms from used car parts and lawnmowers imagine what you can do.

Be prepared to be inspired.

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Alex Ferrari 0:00
So guys, I I wanted to bring this episode to you guys. I wanted to bring these guys onto the show because when I heard their story, I was so blown away by what they were doing. It was is just on. I am speechless. Literally, I'm speechless. If I'm going to introduce you guys to what kollywood what kollywood is, was created by a man named Isaac Nabwana in Uganda, Africa. And he basically has created a film industry single handedly almost down in Uganda. And imagine a time where there was no filmmaking technology, you really had no information, you were just kind of discovering the the art kind of like they did in the early 1900s. The Silent Movie days. Well, that's kind of what's happening right now over ntaganda. With, with Isaac and his, his production company Raman films productions, he created a movie called who Well, he's actually created over 40 movies in the last eight years. But his biggest hit is who killed Captain Alex, I have no affiliation. And he that's got over 2 million downloads on on YouTube. And he's sold a bunch of them and the passion that this man creates with his movies is amazing. He taught himself Adobe Premiere 1.5 by using the help files, because there was no internet in the village. He did the same thing with Adobe After Effects. So his films have a very unique look and feel to them based on the technology they have accessible to but the one thing that he has, is a passion that literally oozes out of every frame of the movie. And I was so inspired about what these guys were doing and how they were doing it I wanted to bring it bring this story to you guys. And then Allen story and how he actually left New York City as a film Film Festival programmer and move to Uganda to without knowing Isaac without knowing anybody there just showed up and said I want to be a part of this craziness. And Alan has partnered with Isaac and now they are making movies and more movies and trying to get the word out on what Hollywood and so many other things are happening with with Hollywood so I want you guys to sit back relax and truly be ready to be inspired. Oh and also this intro to the the interviews a little bit unorthodox because I wanted you guys to kind of understand what they were going through to just even do this Skype interview with us so we I'm basically bringing it in right as Alan is crossing the the sewage that overflowed that evening to go to Isaac's house to sit down and do the the interview so it's it's an amazing story guys so enjoy

Alan Hofmanis 3:41
I'll walk you through this so you know it's a slum so that's raw sewage in the front and there was a heavy rains so it floods that means sewage comes into where I live, and I cannot find my shoes because it's dark so I'm walking around and the kind of the sewage kind of thing in my bare feet. Man I'm coming up to Isaac. It's surreal. Oh man.

Alex Ferrari 4:01
It's real deal.

Alan Hofmanis 4:08
Okay, here we go. Okay with Isaac,

Alex Ferrari 4:12
Isaac, how are you my friend?

Isaac Nabwana 4:15
I'm okay. How are you?

Alex Ferrari 4:16
Oh, thank you so much for doing the interview. I really appreciate it

Isaac Nabwana 4:20
Okay Thanks!

Alex Ferrari 4:22
so um, Alright, so let's get started guys I saw your I saw your that little doc that they did over advice. And that kind of introduced me to your world. And then I've gone deep down the rabbit hole of Walk walk Hollywood. So I've I've been obsessing about you guys ever since I saw that. So I reached out to Alan, and I'm so grateful that you guys decided to jump on the interview. I think you you're an inspirational story. And I hope my crowd will never ever complain about making films in Los Angeles after they hear your story. So, um, so first off, Allen, how did you tell me the story of how you ended up in Uganda?

Alan Hofmanis 5:05
Yeah, it's, you know, to me, it's very simple and easy, but I don't think people think I'm crazy. So I was living in New York, my background is in film and film production. Then also as the festival program director for a number of years. And so a friend just showed me a trailer just 90 seconds. from YouTube. It was the trailer who killed Captain Alex and he showed it to me on his iPhone in a bar. And everyone's laughing this and, and I wasn't laughing. I mean, I was meaning crazy, and it's fun insurance. But but it looked, I didn't understand it, meaning it. It looked it looked like something. There's a story here. Not like a documentary sense. Although Yes, but in like, I wanted to know more. I wanted I wanted to know more. Okay, and, and that's it. So two weeks later, I just, I just came to Uganda. And I didn't call it an email.

Alex Ferrari 6:04
Or you just literally showed up.

Alan Hofmanis 6:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's it. And I knew I would find them because it seemed like the personality behind that was very strong was like very big. So I knew I knew people would know him. You know, right. If it was a quiet film, two people having a conversation you know, that's a little different. But this I knew it. I knew I find them so. And that was it. And it's actually my first full day there. I found him. So it's Yeah, this is definitely not

Alex Ferrari 6:31
dinner with Andre. So you definitely Yeah, I got I can. So that's extremely exciting and brave of you. Like it's something that I know a lot of people would not just like, hey, let's just get on the boat and go to go to a garden and see if I can find this filmmaker. So that alone is

Alan Hofmanis 6:50
You know what's funny about that, though? It's like, because I you know, I, I thought about all this Yeah, actually, what I did was I bought the ticket. And then I returned it the next day, because this is crazy. But then the next day, I bought it again. I have to pay the fees. Of course, it's because but I thought Actually, I thought it would be crazy or not to come really I thought if I did not come I would always wonder or always want to know, you know, so, you know, Yeah, I guess so. But it was it was I thought it out.

Alex Ferrari 7:19
So Isaac, let me ask you a question. What triggered your passion to become a director? and open up a studio in Uganda?

Isaac Nabwana 7:27
Yeah, I would say just add, because when I was young, we liked you know, we did martial arts. And then it was it was we wanted to do a movie movies by that, but we didn't know what to do. But what do we do is we do martial arts, like Chinese Kung Fu, it would be it would be very simple. And personally, I was an artist, like in as in drawing, and from childhood, I used to draw comics in a book, I would draw, you know, football match the whole pages of the book, 22 pages, and I draw a goalkeeper getting the ball, you know, doing it. So I knew how to use the drawings. Make it you know, like, it's moving something. There's a story in it. So from childhood, I knew that. And I think that is when it when I wanted that to make my pictures, you know, move. And when I started, you know, doing martial arts, I knew that I was one that will make a movie. But my brother was not believing me. And he was always saying that you need a lot of money to make a movie, right? Yeah, I think also, we notice passion. If you love something, and then you follow it. And so that's what I did. I had it follow my dream.

Alex Ferrari 8:41
Good. That That alone is an inspirational story, just that alone without the rest of the story. Because a lot of people don't follow their dreams, especially over here. They get caught up in the day of living, and not actually following their dreams and figuring out how to get that dream to be a business, which is what you guys have done. You've been doing this for eight years, right, Isaac? About eight years? And how many films and how many films have you made so far?

Isaac Nabwana 9:07
The truth is, I cannot say these movies because, in fact, I've worked on several projects, but around 40 movies around about 40 movies,

Alex Ferrari 9:17
so you've made more. So you've made more movies and Steven Spielberg very impressive.

Alan Hofmanis 9:26
Spielberg James Cameron, have you gone? Oh,

Alex Ferrari 9:30
Absolutely. Throw some David Fincher and Michael Bay in there while you're at it.

Alan Hofmanis 9:35
Right, Bruce Lee?

Alex Ferrari 9:37
Exactly. So um, So Isaac, what films inspired you growing up?

Isaac Nabwana 9:44
Yeah, there's so many movies as I as I was growing up, I never went to cinema halls. Because I was obedient. My parents. My brothers used to, to to to go out and you know, escape and go to cinema halls. They come back. They tell you stories. And really those stories are still in my head and I've never seen even some of the movies they used to tell me like the Barbie Spencer's movies because they are there is no way to get them here in Uganda but I you I you know by dispenser by by by this toy that my brother's use Tell me but now I've never watched him I don't know even how it looks like bye bye say there are so many movies like The presence man of Chuck Norris was good while the geese I think by James Bond one is movies and Bruce Lee's movies. Jackie I know the commander of Schwarzenegger, gentlemen but there are so many movies which were in fact we were told by my brothers my by I never watched I saw them by I mean when they released the way they were raised in Uganda. I never saw the movies, but I got the stories from my brothers.

Alex Ferrari 10:50
Wow. So you literally watched movies through secondhand stories. I tell you, those guys who have a good storyteller. That's, that's amazing.

Alan Hofmanis 11:01
So so when you saw movies, they were boring to you.

Alex Ferrari 11:09
Like this is horrible. What is this Chuck Norris guy doing us? This is horrible as my brother is much better stories. Isaac, where do you get the ideas for your films because they are very, they're very unique to your to your to Uganda into your into your culture.

Isaac Nabwana 11:28
Yeah, there are some things which I think making them unique. Maybe it's the way I write them. But I normally wanted the life we go through plus some fiction anyway. That's how I make the movies. But the most important thing is that we are family here. We sit together sometimes after writing a script, we sit together and discuss the script, which I've written, you know, the old people have good ideas to contribute. And another thing is that I try to say that in our script I write everyone is is in his in that is in, in the script has to act. So I read for everyone who is here, who is around me. So that really makes it you know, different from movies from waste. Being that you see like, hey, let me give an example of Commando. It was written for swastika. Sure. And you can see, yeah, but for me, I don't read one pass, when I read for everyone who is here, and I look at them, I see a character in him or her. And then I try to put her in that movie to fix in that movie. So I think that really makes it unique. And being that title is a combination of film styles. I think it has to be unique all over the world.

Alex Ferrari 12:40
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So basically from what I'm from what I've gathered, what I've watched online, and I'm talking to you, it's basically what Kali was like, it's an infant it's it, it's in its infancy, almost, it's almost like a way was in the in the turn of the century. And LA and Hollywood and wherever, when they were making the silent movies. They were figuring things out, they didn't have any access to a lot of information, so that we're just trying to figure stuff out. And then you guys have been kind of doing that with what Hollywood is that correct?

Isaac Nabwana 13:11
Yeah, we always figure out something and then we do it. It's like, we are always improvising.

Alex Ferrari 13:18
You're doing it. And that's where great art is made is like when you don't know like, there's a lot of filmmakers. I'm not sure if you know who Robert Rodriguez is. No, Allen probably does. But he was a filmmaker who kind of just did stuff on his own. And he was very similar like, oh, what do I have access to? I'm going to just go Oh, I have access to a turtle, a dog and a town and a couple guns. Let's go make a movie. And that's kind of what I'm hearing from you, but at a much more communal sense. Much more, you know, based around the entire family. Now, you know, how did you teach yourself editing and visual effects eyes? Because this is a complicated process. I was fascinated to see some of the behind the scenes.

Isaac Nabwana 14:01
Yeah, I tell it that fast. I remember when I was trying to do the special effects and visuals. I there's a movie called solo.

Alex Ferrari 14:11
Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Isaac Nabwana 14:12
I think you know that.

Alex Ferrari 14:13
Yes. The one is that the one with Kurt Russell. Yeah, I Oh, no, no, I was another one. Yeah, I can't know what you're talking about. Yeah.

Isaac Nabwana 14:22
I used to cut fire from that movie. To see that I paste on something and then see if it burns something like that. Then later on, I thought of something and then I said, Yes, green screen. Because I was reading Adobe Premiere, which was 1.5 which I started teaching myself. I read the I use the help button of Adobe Premiere 1.5. It's like a book you read and understand. It was not very easy to understand. But because of the art and creativity reach i think is in me I don't I don't think I got it from anywhere. It is a God given. So I I started using that. They ideas and then I see the fire I figure I find how do they do it when I land in that Premiere Pro? I mean Premiere Pro one from five that there is chroma key. I started using green screen in fact, I have a wall here which I painted green. Okay.

Alan Hofmanis 15:15
His house painted the walls in his house. Painted chroma key.

Isaac Nabwana 15:21
Yeah, I noticed I started shooting blind.

Alex Ferrari 15:24
I noticed that in one of your interviews I actually saw the back was like is that chroma key green back? That's awesome.

Isaac Nabwana 15:31
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's, yeah, that's Chroma when the screen so I started putting fire in front of it. And then I, I go into Chrome and I keep then I use it. So I literally studied difficult software, it was called the compassion because when I had compassion because in the past, when I was in school, I used to lie I used to I was a very good student of physics. So I knew I wanted to conversion from there. So I noticed it has to be fire in it. If it is commercial. Commercial, studying commercial was not an easy thing of all software's have meant. Commercial is very, very difficult. It's helped me with much in making smoke in hokitika analysis. In fact, that's what I used to make smoke and, and also some fire your muscles, something like that. So I I combined Adobe, by that by that time, I didn't know after I fix when I was doing after mini cookied. Captain Alex, I knew Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5. But I didn't know after effects. I learned after effects later.

Alex Ferrari 16:37
Right. Right. But you were using combustion to do the visual effects on that one. Yeah. And

Alan Hofmanis 16:43
he's learning without, at that time. This is before we had internet here. Yeah. So it's not like he has like YouTube tutorials or anything. Yeah, that was trying or if there's even someone who knows that that can teach him, right, there isn't any?

Alex Ferrari 16:58
No, of course, there's no one in probably within 1000 miles that could teach them premiere at that point in the game. That's combustion. And combustion. No, actually, I've actually opened up combustion back in the day, and it was complicated. That's why I don't use it. It was a really, it was a really complicated program for the day, especially if you have no background in visual effects or software or anything like that. So that's amazing. That really is remarkable, Isaac, that. The thing I love about your story so much is that there is so much passion behind what you guys are doing, doing the maganda and with Walker, what Hollywood is that there's so much passion and it's raw passion. It's not jaded passion. It's not, oh, how am I going to make this or it's just, you just love what you're doing. And that's what drew me to you guys. And I think I think as the word gets out about what you guys are doing, that's what I think your fans are gonna start drawing more and more because that passion is something you can't manufacture. You can't make that like you can't put go into a marketing strategic marketing campaign and go, how can we create passion, you know, fake passion, it doesn't work, people know the difference. And that passion of what you guys are doing is so real and so raw that it's it's infectious Actually, it's actually infectious. Kind of like your Ebola movie. But so, um, have you know, Alan, have you guys been submitting to film festivals?

Alan Hofmanis 18:27
We were rejected by everything for Alex, you know, domestically, but also like, Japan, I thought might have a chance No. Even like there was a festival it wasn't a first choices but there were festivals that are just dedicated to poverty, even sugar, you know, like ultra low budget any and all they wanted, and they rejected outright from everything. Some of them I think, thought that we were fake that this isn't real. Like they would ask me instead of saying no, they would ask me how much does Isaac charge for interviews? And I didn't understand what they meant but I think it's because they thought this is just a joke that this is a scam. Wow. So we were rejected outright. I understand my background is you know, as a program director for festivals, everything rejected

Alex Ferrari 19:14
and you went and you went after all the big big and small festivals here in the States as well as genre

Alan Hofmanis 19:20
Yeah, yeah. Because that's I want to present it is what it is, is genre it's action are comedy and are Yeah. And so but at the same time, you know, he's got all these millions and millions of views, you know, and I knew that there were all these fan clubs as a fan. There's a paintball team. This is before we went public with Alex, but they were like, there's like a paintball team in Berlin is a fan club in like Indonesia. And these are all spontaneous. Like these are just fans who see the clips and organize, right? So we just kind of made the decision that let's just release it straight to the fans. Make it free. Bring it to the fans, right. And then and then That's what happened. And once it got out, and then people started seeing it, you know, they just fell in love. And that's what's been happening these past six months. Is it just building and building? But I can tell you in the beginning people would tell me like, the film's violent. And I'm like, Well, I mean, I don't know how to answer that, you know, to me that like Road Warrior cartoons. Yeah, Roadrunner cartoons. You know, it's it's their comedy is his laughter but they would say like, this is a promoting violence in Africa, or, you know, all all of these kinds of things without seeing the movie. Right? You know, right. I don't know. So at the end, you know, we had all these millions of views. So just we just released it to the fans. And then I think the rest is rest of maybe history.

Alex Ferrari 20:40
Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's the smartest way I think you guys could have gone about it is actually just like, hey, let's show it up. And then, yeah, create that fan base, and then you can figure out how to monetize later, which is what you guys are doing.

Alan Hofmanis 20:55
Because also, and then we have because there's also the new movies. I mean, and again, this is a studio meaning we have about 12 I think we're on 12 films and an action horror cycle. You know, they have to be subtitled they have that you know, and things but we have them, you know, and so the next step is Yeah, with maybe potentially then for the next movies to release them with a conjunction with a film festival, with the Britain being this to get Isaac and maybe some of the actors to the west, right. which I think has never actually been theater.

Alex Ferrari 21:29
Oh, wow. I mean, he's never been to Isaac, you never meant to like a movie theater before.

Isaac Nabwana 21:37
No, no, no, I've never been there. Apart from this in cinema halls, which are here now the local one, and I go there for for VGA. Sure, it's right. I've never Yeah,

Alan Hofmanis 21:48
it's a TV set, like a you know, 19 inch TV set.

Alex Ferrari 21:51
Yeah, I was gonna ask you guys about can you walk me through that screening process at the local screening? Because I saw a little bit of about that in the behind the scenes documentary and I want people to understand what it's like, and how different it is the experience with the commentary with the vj? Yeah, the vj. Yeah. How can you explain to the audience What's that? What's that process?

Isaac Nabwana 22:11
Yeah, VGA, after making a movie. I take it to the VG he has a cinema hall. That is a small cinema hall laquan. And he has a mixer. He has a DVD I mean, at the TV, and he has a banner which can which bands the DVDs so what he does he has a microphone a mix is the is that's playing the movie that the what the film on our screen, and keep our own. He has audience of course, sometimes it has not an audience, if it's, if it's just recording for maybe selling for TV or something like that. But he is on a microphone. He he pulls back then in first off the sound of the movie, and then he talks and then it brings it back. And it's like that you hear him sing or movies. And then it comes in handy like that. And then seven and it talks something like this is always joking, you know, I always joke and add some you know, jokes. And he is also on point sometimes and he goes off and then he takes it's like is annihilating but also in a joking type in a joking way.

Alex Ferrari 23:19
Right? Right. And that makes it a much more enjoyable experience for the audience.

Isaac Nabwana 23:24
Of course, everyone goes mad when he when he starts he because he's always live, you know, he brings in your data, you know, that happiness in him after because he watches the movie. First time he watches the movie before you watch it. What does what if he gets it? He has to watch it understand the movie. So after understanding everything, he knows where to put a joke, he knows where to improve to to, you know, to Why do something that Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 23:51
so you guys should actually do a special release of your movies with him talking through the commentary.

Alan Hofmanis 24:00
I mean, like you mean, a vj version of the film?

Alex Ferrari 24:04
Yeah, you should you should do that. That would be Yeah, that would be that would be an awesome experience. For people to to kind of feel to be in that room would be awesome. Yeah.

Alan Hofmanis 24:15
Well, we have the first one that's the we trans we tried to translate it into English, which was tough, because we did not speak English or vj, right? So we did so Captain Alex is like the first as I guess the first film in the world with a Ugandan vj.

Alex Ferrari 24:31
Oh, Alex is also the full movie has the vj already on it? Yeah. Oh yeah.

Alan Hofmanis 24:37
It's free. It's on YouTube. It's what? hollywood.com it's free. You can download it there. But no, Alex has, I think the world's first English language. BJ. That's brilliant. That's brilliant.

Alex Ferrari 24:51
So Alan. Yeah, go ahead.

Alan Hofmanis 24:56
I was gonna say like, is a follow up with Isaac was saying is that I've seen You know the video Hall it could be like it's a dirt floor but some wooden benches and usually two television screens one is the movie and one is playing a soccer game with the volume down so if you don't like the movie you can just watch sports. But I have seen like I don't know like 130 people standing on the bench instead of not sitting there standing on the benches jumping up and down in the pouring rain on these steel Corrugated Roof with a diesel generator running all the power just screaming loud at Isaac's films with the loud vj just just complete madness and so now he fought very hard like how do we kind of translate this experience into the West at least partially right? And it's not you know, so I think we succeeded on on a basic level, it's tough because also i mean that the vj invents his own language you know, it's all kind of slang so it's not exactly easy to translate it but I think we got something

Alex Ferrari 25:57
if something came through something came through Oh yeah, so Alan How does it feel to be an action star in Uganda

Alan Hofmanis 26:07
well right now I'm more Jesus for real hair My hair is grown out and I have this beard before I was the commando in black and things which are coming out in the West but now my hair is grown out so I'm more Jesus that's my name here for real I ended up playing Jesus in a music video as a favor and it turned out to be like the number one song here in Uganda so so yeah, it's and then the you know I have to I have to start dressing better because you know we used to have some some some level

Alex Ferrari 26:41
well it's easy you know it's not hard it's not easy to find Jesus let alone in Uganda walking around so I guess you you should be able to get a lot of work yeah

Alan Hofmanis 26:48
well it's been yeah 2000 years coming you know and I'm very happy to be here

Alex Ferrari 26:54
it's why and you came to you came to walk while he would so that's awesome.

Alan Hofmanis 26:59
action you know and that's awesome. But nothing else and obviously this

Alex Ferrari 27:06
is where he's changed since the olden days

Alan Hofmanis 27:10
boring after a while man i mean you know there's only so much they're cool and all

Alex Ferrari 27:17
so um, now you guys did a Kickstarter campaign recently and you were asking for 160 bucks How much did you finally get at the end of that

Alan Hofmanis 27:26
we got we got just over 13,000 oh that's amazing. Yeah, and it was and now this is the very beginning this is before I guess it kind of went viral. I guess it went viral. I don't know we're here or here but yeah and and you know 160 is what's the budgets more or less are for the films and so ultimately that's what we kind of needed for the next one. But yeah, we raised over 13 grand

Alex Ferrari 27:54
wow wow. And then as each movie that goes along, you keep building up more of equipment and Arsenal's and things like that that you can keep using for other movies so it just kind of like compounds itself correct? Yeah,

Alan Hofmanis 28:07
of course and also like when we're working on an Alex before there were no backups like this that we now have our first backup hard drives

Alex Ferrari 28:16
Oh thank God it is you just back it up you've

Alan Hofmanis 28:19
seen yeah and I don't know if you've seen pictures but you know we're building a damn helicopter.

Alex Ferrari 28:25
Yeah, I saw Yeah, you sent me a picture that that is

Alan Hofmanis 28:28
that that's your Kickstarter dollars at work.

Alex Ferrari 28:31
Now what were the first things that you guys bought with that money?

Alan Hofmanis 28:36
Oh, it was it was it was technical as soon as as soon as the first person that I knew was in the area from the west It was hard drives oh and like video cards and sound cards because you just burn through those though really ups like the power regulators for electricity all stuff like that. Turn first trying to second thing was Yep. You're trying to build the right after that. Yeah, yeah. Well, was the upgrade to try to upgrade it from SD to HD you know, is this this is not just the computers, it's the drives, you know? Right and the cameras and things. So was that and then also spent a got a lot maybe I will say like 1300 at least on explosions.

Alex Ferrari 29:19
Guys,

Alan Hofmanis 29:20
it's not just that, like they like the HD high resolution you know, effects and things for the for the new stuff.

Alex Ferrari 29:28
That's That's awesome. And how you guys still working on Adobe Premiere? 1.5 Have you upgraded.

Isaac Nabwana 29:35
It's alright, now I'm using 5.5.

Alex Ferrari 29:38
Okay, okay, good. So you've come across, you've come up, come along a little bit more. So that's awesome. And you're using After Effects now for your visual effects? Yeah, of course. Yes. Fantastic. Now, this is a an indie film. Also, we talked a lot about marketing and how to get your movie out there. Can you talk to us about how you are actually selling and marketing your films locally. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show

Isaac Nabwana 30:11
Yeah In fact it wasn't also an easy way of doing it because when we first released the movie be out it was not easy for us to sell it because of the you know people were used to western movies and nigerian movies here and also they knew as an actor here in Uganda was supposed to be a drama actor on stage in theaters and they knew of Abu civi and Miriam and again we are famous here as drama it as a mistake right? So when we lose the movie went to we had to go first to the distributors and they were always asking you oh do you have in your movies always famous route What do you think will sell this something without a famous person and then they are saying that let us try to promote you you give us that movie for free something like that I never said no. We at least we would and we knew they are going to be you know put them in their shops and they sit them down they just sit with them there. So we wanted to do promote ourselves here so what we did I came back with my marketing team because I met now the actors and actresses the marketing team after convincing them that if we were to to be you know to be known, we have to show our movies to the people you have to take it the people they are the one who are going to become our audience so we made that what the way we went we went made his few copies I went to the big markets in muckety muck in the markets in a year new compiler that is a winner market and she said come market we reached there with a few copies we had like 100 and we started selling but people were always asking me the same question as distributors were asking what do you have within them and we had no one to do to information anyway so people refuse to buy then we came back and then I thought that I got an idea that next day Let us make 300 copies and we'll give them for free meaning that you give you find someone on as maybe as tall selling something you made sure is the owner of that store you give her or him a copy for free and tell her or him that tomorrow I will come for my copy and we need that then the next the following day we did that and then they took their copies 300 copies away and we came back the following day with with with more than 300 copies because we knew we were going to sell as you approach that that's total of that person who bought who took their copy yesterday yeah he was already screaming at you you you were good man you're very good you know actors and actresses Why did you tell me this is a movie and it caught attention to the people around them they asked what what am I talking about and then we started you know this reading their movies and people were buying I they thought they created our own because they started becoming you know our own you know market yes they started doing you take this movement It's good you take this move you believe me? So that is how we set it with the marina market and Jessica market and people who started you know, in fact, they started calling after the movie they used to call and they in fact after now with a call Do you have a new movie? Do you have a new movie? It's like that that's how we started but we did not stop on with markets with these two markets. We started distributing all over the country, door to door man to man, a district to district region to region that's how we sell our movies now that we have taught at a conference

Alex Ferrari 33:38
so the funny thing is is that no matter where you are in the world distributors are still distributors who's in the movie. I mean, we do the exact same quit like who's in the movie, there's no movie I'll get look Give it to me for free. I'll promote you. This is the exact same story so I'm fascinated that this has happened in Uganda as well as it's happening in LA.

Alan Hofmanis 33:58
But that's also that's like my story here meaning it's it's all this it's it's it's just it's a different shade of things that that you say you and I know. Sure. You know, even like, like you were talking earlier about, like early Hollywood is like very much because we have to get the big, you know, build everything the building, right? Positive, like a like a little toy, if you want to destroy it, you can't just buy it, they don't exist. Everything has to it has to be built. But it's like, it's it's, it's like that it's like what's funny to me is how we're not different at all, you know, right audiences or audiences and you know, filmmakers or film artists or artists, you know,

Alex Ferrari 34:35
yeah, no matter what, no matter where you are in, you know, Americans want to see Americans doing stuff on screen, whatever that might be. You know, Ugandans want to see a guy who's doing stuff on screen, either talking to them about their own cultural experience, or things like that, and, and they just want good stories at the end of the day. And if they've never seen themselves on screen even more, so that's why a lot of independent movement has grown as much as it has Because a lot of people are starting to see themselves on screen and people want to see that I'm Latino so I'm Cuban. So you know so there's a lot of you know are a lot of Latinos in America that want to see Latinos on screen that's why movie like fast and furious and that whole that does so well yeah. Because there's Latinos and there's you know, African Americans and there's all sorts of different cultures mixed into them. That's why they're also so cool and they're also doing very cool stuff.

Alan Hofmanis 35:29
saying like, you have all that and then you add some explosions.

Alex Ferrari 35:34
Yes, yes, you have some explosion some blood? Will Vin, Vin Diesel just sign for three more. So if I don't know if you knew that or not, so there'll be three more of those coming. So um, so since you have all these movies already in in the Rome film studios library, when are you going to release them all?

Alan Hofmanis 35:53
Yeah, well, we're starting I mean, it'll be probably early next year. It's the question really is is a film festivals. You know, and what we'd like to do is what I want to do is bring Isaac to the west. And I think that you say what a dream I have. Is that Isaac's first movie he sees in the theater is one of his own Oh no, it wouldn't be amazing right? With with a full audience that already knows him and loves new Alex and loves what he's doing you know? That's a dream so that that's the question is is but then there's questions about visas the cost and things but that's that's that's what we're working on. We want to see I hear another

Alex Ferrari 36:31
Kickstarter campaign coming.

Alan Hofmanis 36:35
Maybe we can get them out of Uganda.

Alex Ferrari 36:41
Save Isaac No, I'm joking. Get him out? No. Um, so where? What future plans do you guys have to get the word out about Alcala Hollywood and making more getting more attention to what you guys are doing?

Alan Hofmanis 36:56
Well, the big the big next thing I think is the idea of of crowdsourcing, an action movie. Which means like so many people you know people that may be visiting Uganda or see someone like yourself like like, I can hear it like you want to you know, you you would if you were here you'd love to die. Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure. Absolutely. I mean, there's something about that and so the next film The plan is to kind of crowdsource Ugandan action moving What that means is the story will take place around the world and if you want to be in it, you can do it you just you know, with just your your camera phone, you just take out your iPhone, you shoot yourself dying, or running in the streets or you know, unexplored whatever being commandos and you send us the footage, we put it in the film. And what that means is that you can be you know, from from your home in Norway, or Santa Monica, or Arkansas Spain, you can shoot yourself send us the footage and you can become a Ugandan action movie star without ever leaving your home.

Alex Ferrari 38:00
If that's not an easy that's not an inset a Kickstarter incentive, I don't know what is exactly.

Alan Hofmanis 38:05
And we're testing it. We've already started a bit on some on YouTube, some Ebola clips, we're just fans from Indonesia, and Vietnam and Northern Ireland, I saw some are just sending us clips of themselves dying. And it works and we make a little story put them in, and it's the best.

Alex Ferrari 38:23
That's That's awesome. Um, now um, where do you guys see what Hollywood in five years

Isaac Nabwana 38:37
is I want to be the biggest action studio in Uganda and all over the world. What we hope is that everyone is if everyone is part of what Hollywood it has to be the best action studio in the world. Right?

Alex Ferrari 38:52
So So you're just gonna you're gonna just try to make as many movies as you can and just keep getting that word out and make it the best you can.

Isaac Nabwana 38:59
Yeah, we we are still fighting to see that we make so many movies you know, I know we want to make entertaining movies interesting movies, that people not only movies, just movies, but we want what people we want to target what people really want. Because this is entertainment.

Alex Ferrari 39:17
Right? Yeah. You're escapism you just want to try to watch something to escape and you know watching some of some of the clips and stuff from your films you definitely escape without

Alan Hofmanis 39:28
anyone yeah and also perfect for other filmmakers as well you know i mean like what we can offer is something completely unique just completely and you know this filmmakers out there man and you know, we can you know, we can make films together. Now usually support

Alex Ferrari 39:46
now, you guys, Isaac, are you are you trying to bring in other directors as well and bringing in the younger generation behind you so this can continue.

Isaac Nabwana 39:57
Yeah, very much. I have trained so many editors here okay the lectures because in fact everyone who is here can the next movie now because I always teach everything okay I teach them I give them a dead chance of doing everything writing directing makeup No, because I think they are filmmakers My idea is that the guys I started with are all filmmakers that's what I really take as a prelude for them they're it's they're filmmakers they're not film stars that filmmakers make being mean that even in the future they can make movies they can direct and do everything but apart from that I'm also bringing the children they were cast as I call them, they were casters and we are training them you know martial arts. We are training them you know music we are training them you know how to do things like you know, I obviously I hope to also make them you know, good editors because I know we need like 3d you know things because that is the generation of today they have gone 3d I think this student will be good if I teach them 3d which I have which I know I have idea of I'm not very good in 3d but I have it I can take I think I can teach them the way I taught myself if I teach them a little and some of them are my children I know they will know they will this they will very quickly understand and we will also continue with teaching themselves so I'm always encouraging young generation to come in even not only workload but all over the country if I get a chance to speak to Phil young filmmakers our is you know give them courage that they should not I think that they should not wait for government to give them money they should not wait for you know for an ad no no no they can start today because everything has got as good as a beginning we don't need to wait let the money Find us on our way and that money we can get it from you know our works, what we do what we pay our products we don't need to do not to pay too much. If you have products if I have a movie and people can buy it and enjoy it and contribute to that next level of project that's what I always encourage them instead of you know making a movie and then keep it under your bed you put it on the on the market try it yourself because we have already created a little market here in Uganda they can also do it they can also go to the market and talk to the market people that they can they're ready to buy so it's like that I'm encouraging other filmmakers I think Uganda has good creative you know directors and you know editors and cameraman, we can make it

Alex Ferrari 42:38
that that's awesome. That's very very awesome. Now one one side question and then I have a last couple How are we doing on battery power?

Alan Hofmanis 42:47
I think we have 10 minutes

Alex Ferrari 42:49
Okay, so great. Um, real quick Isaac, what is the camera you using right now?

Isaac Nabwana 42:55
It is Panasonic I don't know what the specifications but I just bought a Panasonic

Alan Hofmanis 43:00
It's a solid state.

Alex Ferrari 43:01
Oh, it's a solid state so it's like the HV x 200 or something.

Isaac Nabwana 43:05
Yeah, it's it's the next generation of I think it is next to VHS

Alex Ferrari 43:10
To the mini DV Got it? Got it. So this is a question I asked all of my guests. So this is for both of you. What are your top three favorite films of all time? And Isaac, Isaac you can either tell me those storied version that you've never seen the movie that you really liked or the actual movie you've seen right?

Alan Hofmanis 43:32
That's funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your favorite film you have never seen?

Alex Ferrari 43:37
Yes. What is your favorite film? You've never did the story version you can either do the storied version or real movies that you've actually seen in person up to you

Isaac Nabwana 43:46
What I've never seen I don't know

Alex Ferrari 43:49
Have you seen commando? You actually seen commando right?

Isaac Nabwana 43:51
Oh yeah that's that's one of my best if I was going to tell you that commando was is what is one of my best and the Presidents man is one of the three Okay, so and this how they call it this guy when they destroyed the White House. There are two versions but they're all good for me. White house down and Olympus Has Fallen movies

Alex Ferrari 44:20
The same movies

Isaac Nabwana 44:22
So there is the jungle and I like the jungle because the guy used to shoot at the you know the the dead body was also you can see the blood coming out of the dead border pocket. That's amazing.

Alex Ferrari 44:34
I love your sound effects these are wonderful. How about you Alan? What are your three favorites

Alan Hofmanis 44:42
Umm you know I tell you what's funny with me with this is that you know I'm you know I grew up on his suburbs Long Island so yeah, you know, I love action and all this but but I wasn't like crazy about it. No, I mean, I like it. I've seen everything a predator turned me off for sure. But I wasn't like crazy about it, but I Isaac makes you love that, you know, like Isaac really makes you love all that stuff like complete, like even much, much more and you start seeing things you know, but if you were to ask my favorite films like what, like the film that that I watch even here I had to download it. And I watch every so often is his local hero, which is the Scottish film. Very small phone. Yeah. It's really yeah, it's it's, it's really great. And it's just you know, it's about this guy who's from Texas and he works at the oil company, and he has to go to Northern Scotland to by the, by the village for an oil refinery. Of course, he doesn't want to do it, he falls in love with the village. But meanwhile, the village wants to sell because they want the money. But it's just this very charming story about this guy who comes from a completely different part of the world, and falls in love with everyone. And becomes part of their life. And, and then as that was always my favorite film, and then when I look at myself and what's happening here, you know, right, it's spooky frightening.

Alex Ferrari 45:59
You're living in your own local hero.

Alan Hofmanis 46:00
How, like, the same thing has happened. Yeah, I think so. Well, they're all there. You know, everyone here I think is is like, they say that, like they're, they're like real life action heroes.

Alex Ferrari 46:10
So, you know, in the virk around in the verb, just go ahead.

Alan Hofmanis 46:18
Yeah, no, I'm just saying like, like, when I see any talk about here, like like all the the actors and Isaac and everyone here. It's like they're all real life action heroes. They're seen that way by the children in the village. But like, like this whole story of what's happening here with what color with these guys who, you know, really basically nothing but are building these heavily helicopters and jibs and making these movies that are being enjoyed around the world when they were never meant to. They're just meant for the for here. They're like, it's the true story of what's happening behind this is an action movie, you know, and, and it's just beginning. You know, this is like, this is like the first act, you know, of, of what may be coming?

Alex Ferrari 47:00
Yeah. No, put no question about it. No question about what you guys are doing. That's awesome. That's a great answer. It's probably one of the best answers I've ever heard this. This is my favorite movie. The one we're doing right now.

Alan Hofmanis 47:13
Is don't die.

Alex Ferrari 47:18
So, Isaac, Isaac, last question. Is when this movie of Hollywood gets made, because there's gonna be a Hollywood adaptation one day of this movie of like the making of walk Hollywood. Who's gonna play you? And who's gonna play Alan?

Alan Hofmanis 47:35
You Isaac. You're gonna make a movie about Hollywood.

Alex Ferrari 47:39
Is it Denzel Washington? Is it who's What? Who's playing you? Yeah, I don't know. Will Smith. John Claude Van Damme who's doing it?

Isaac Nabwana 47:48
But Chuck Norris is the best for me.

Alex Ferrari 47:51
Obviously Chuck Norris is the best Everyone knows that even here everyone know everywhere everyone knows understands how bad as Chuck Norris is there's no question

Alan Hofmanis 48:01
And Alan should play you just drinks for no questions. Nobody was here. I just ended it. No questions asked. It's just chuck norris being Isaac.

Alex Ferrari 48:12
That would just be pretty. Yeah, exactly. Just have them roll right into the part. There's not even an explanation of why Chuck Norris is in Uganda or his family. Nothing. It's just play.

Alan Hofmanis 48:22
Like we have to make action movies. Everyone thinks he's crazy. But he's like, No, we can do it. Great. Would that be?

Alex Ferrari 48:31
That would be amazing. I'm gonna I'm gonna send out the word to chuck now and see if we can make this happen. He should come. Oh, man, could you imagine I mean, a jacket Chuck would literally be Jesus Christ if you walked

Alan Hofmanis 48:45
Bro. Honestly, there's a one of the movies that we're working on. It's called eaten alive in Uganda. Okay, and they think I'm Chuck Norris. Because I have longer hair and so they have to fight me and eat me because it's Chuck Norris and Chuck Norris. You know? I even fight Bruce you in it. Who's Uganda's? Bruce Lee? Of course. Yes. You can't. Can't make this up just like I like like in the final scene from Enter the Dragon. You know?

Alex Ferrari 49:12
Oh, yes. Do you have a hairy chest though? If you don't have a hairy chest you can't play out. You can't play Chuck Norris.

Alan Hofmanis 49:19
Well, actually, I have. I have like a five foot I'm six one. I have like a five foot two African kung fu stunt double. In white face. And if you don't know, me, or you just look at my pork by profile photo on Facebook. That is

Alex Ferrari 49:35
brilliant. You can't write this stuff. Seriously. You cannot write notes on that

Alan Hofmanis 49:41
though. You're saying like, like if there was a movie and like if my character is in it, it's got to be the guys from Shaun of the Dead Man. Oh, boy. I want Yes. Nick Frost. Early James Franco, you know. Exactly.

Alex Ferrari 49:55
Well, oddly enough, James Franco would probably do it. He does everything. He's in every movie now. So um last question guys where can people find you and support what you guys are doing

Alan Hofmanis 50:09
yeah it's just it's well kollywood calm and we're gonna we have we have a Patreon account for what kollywood and it just a very simple minute you just be like $2 a month kind of thing so you get you'll get behind the scenes action but that also goes to support helps keep us going. And then very soon as we for the holidays we'll start having the T shirts and posters available in the West and also the the first batch these will be the first DVDs we have Captain Alex available in the West signed and numbered first 500 and printed by Isaac and his family here in Islam will be available internationally oh that's for a fan so that's coming

Alex Ferrari 50:53
That's awesome That's awesome. Well guys thank you again so so so much for doing this interview. I'm going to be one of your biggest supporters and getting the word out about what Hollywood I love what you guys are doing so you're absolutely

Alan Hofmanis 51:06
killing you man. Yes, the killer.

Alex Ferrari 51:08
I don't know how to take that. I don't know how to take that it's gonna kill you in a bad way

Alan Hofmanis 51:14
to die with us. I with us? If you have to do it, it's better to do it with the professionals,

Alex Ferrari 51:21
Obviously, obviously, obviously. Oh, by the way if you're going to be a sequel, or has there been a sequel to Alex, Captain Alex.

Isaac Nabwana 51:28
Yeah, we'll help so but in the future No, no, not now.

Alex Ferrari 51:31
The fans, the fans demanded Isaac, you must do a sequel. It should be a trilogy should be a captain Alex trilogy. Yeah.

Alan Hofmanis 51:41
Yeah, I want to see I want to see that Tiger mafia and the commandos as children. That's what I want to see the flashbacks. And they're eight years old. With revenge flying helicopters and blowing up. I got it all started.

Alex Ferrari 51:54
Guys thanks again. Man. I really appreciate you being on the show.

Alan Hofmanis 51:58
Oh, thank you Alex.

Alex Ferrari 52:00
Well, guys, if if that didn't get you guys inspired to go make a movie. I don't know what the heck is man seriously, these guys are remarkable. And how they've overcome the obstacles that they have over there to make the movies that they're making and make a living doing it in their own market is is truly truly remarkable. So I hope it does inspire you guys to understand that there is no limits, or no obstacles that cannot be over. Overcome. And when making a feature film or making your film, whether it's short film, documentary, or whatever it is. You just have to have that passion and the the willingness to put in a tremendous amount of hard work, and imagination. Don't forget to head over to film festival tips.com that's Film Festival tips.com. So you can download my free ebook on how I got into over 500 international film festivals for free or cheap. So thanks again for listening guys, and keep those comments coming. Please leave a good comment or review on our iTunes page. It's really helpful the the podcast is getting very popular. And that's all due to you guys. So thank you again for listening. Please spread the word if you like it, tell your friends share it on your social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, wherever you'd like to go. And there'll be a lot more cool stuff coming from indie film hustle. So thanks again. Be inspired. Keep that hustle going guys and make your dreams come true. Talk to you soon.

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