IFH 781: From Pre-Med to Marquee Lights: Jenny Paul’s Journey of Creative Bravery and Storytelling

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:53
My guest is an actress and producer who's known for Jessica Jones. That reminds me and the upcoming Hulu series A Looming Tower. We're gonna be talking about all that stuff, besides fun stories, about the fun one bus, which is, which is a some pretty cool stories, and also about producing, going auditions, all that good stuff with guests Jenny Paul.

Jenny Paul 2:16
Yeah, no, it's, it's funny, because I had sort of a general Instagram for a while, and then, and then my agent, slash manager, she said that I needed to go figure out how to kind of do Instagram. And so, like, the last couple of months has been me, you know, kind of slowly but surely figuring out how to how to do Instagram as, like a concept. So you were actually one of the first people I met. And I was like, Oh, well, this is perfect. Now I should always do Instagram. So like figuring out how I interact with people, and like what it means to have followers versus people you're following and all the sort of weird ins and outs of it.

Dave Bullis 2:56
So did your agent? Like, have you noticed that with a lot of actors, do agents usually promote actors and actresses. Do they say, like, hey, you need to be on social media more?

Jenny Paul 3:06
Yep, so I'm, I'm a Facebook fanatic, and I always have been. I think, I think, you know, this is dating me a little, but I Facebook came out when I was a freshman in college. So that was sort of my, that was sort of my, you know, entree to social media, and I'm really good at Facebook, and that's kind of the only thing I've ever learned. And then Instagram and Twitter came out. I went, Okay, sure, but now, especially, Instagram is becoming one of the major things that they look for in terms of, you know, having having presence on on the internet. They're not so much Facebook oriented as they used to be, and now Instagram is sort of the thing. So, yeah, there are, there are a lot of, a lot of people that kind of look at Instagram stats in terms of hiring and things like that, and influence, influence as it were.

Dave Bullis 3:53
You know, Facebook came out the same time, because you and I are about the same age, so, you know, we I was, I think a freshman in high in college too, when it came out, I remember when it was just for campuses. Like, remember when certain schools only were getting Facebook and and they would be like, a big thing when it actually came to your campus?

Jenny Paul 4:10
Yep, ours got it pretty early, and that made us feel very smart and special. We went, you know, we were like, maybe the 10th or so school, and we were like, Haha. And then, of course, it became very big, very fast. And the the ivy leagues were the ones that really got it first, which is kind of crazy. I guess it's not crazy at all. Seeing is, you know, it's a it's, it came from the Harvard grad, but, um, but it was really, it was kind of even, even then it was such a huge deal. And it just got bigger and bigger and bigger.

Dave Bullis 4:42
Yeah, so where did you go to college?

Jenny Paul 4:44
I went to Brandeis in Boston. It's a tiny school outside of Boston that is known for good academics, and it's very large Jewish population, and that makes people know about Brandeis. So. If anybody knows what it is, they go, oh, yeah, this is that school Jewish. Say, sort of ish, yeah, it's pretty Jewish.

Dave Bullis 5:09
You know, it's, it's funny, because the school I went to was very, very small, too, and, and basically, like, when they got it, I was like, why on earth would Facebook want to come to this school? And I don't remember what year it was exactly, but I remember we got it, and I was like, What the hell. Like, you know what I mean, like, it was just, it just didn't seem like it would fit any purpose. But then I look back on it, now that's when the school, even though it was small, was actually doing well. And now, you know, I mean, like, with that, I guess you know that that's, that's why,

Jenny Paul 5:36
What was your school in the Northeast? Yeah? That might have had something to do with it, too. I think, I think, like, Boston area got, got it first, and that kind of thing. So it could easily be, who knows, I don't know, but I thought it was, I was like, one of the first people to jump on board, thinking it was so great, and then realizing that, like most people in the country weren't on it. So it was just like, Oh, okay.

Dave Bullis 6:03
Yeah, right. It's like, well, there's only one yet that I actually know. It's just people that I go to college with. But so did you study acting in college?

Jenny Paul 6:12
I did. I was acting in high school for fun, and I actually went to college for pre med. So brand new has a really strong pre med program. And basically, when you apply there, you know that if you go there and you finish their pre med, that 85% or more of the graduates of that program go to medical school. So that was why I went to Brandeis. And it just so happened they had a really great theater program. And as I'm doing reasonably well in pre med. My parents are doctors, and I sort of hit the point in my second year during organic chemistry, which I think is like the ultimately worst class in terms of people weeding out of pre med. And I called my dad and I said, you know, I just like, I don't know how you got through 12 years of this. I just, you know, this is just really awful. And he said, Well, Jenny, I liked it. And I was like, Oh, well, there's that so, so I kind of reassessed, and I had been taking um theater classes to blow off steam effectively, because pre med was very stressful in order to keep your, you know, your A's, you really had to work really, really hard. So I had already sort of mounted half of a theater major by the time I decided that being a doctor maybe wasn't my path. So that's how I ended up sort of doing theater is that's kind of what I was doing for fun on the side of pre med.

Dave Bullis 7:40
Yeah. So, you know, it's funny, because I actually was thinking about going into pre med. It's funny. Our stories are kind of very similar. But, no, no, I'm serious. It was, it was odd. I mean, but, but, you know, when you're in college, you kind of want to do a little bit of everything, right? You kind of go, I want to go do this and do that, and then you end up going, I don't know why I'm doing any of this stuff. You know. I'm like, it's almost like you're in too deep to quit at some point.

Jenny Paul 8:09
Yep, you Well, I kind of, I kind of would have been maybe given another semester. I would have just done it, to do it. But at that point, I was like, Well, I've got two and a half years left of this, plus another eight. I wasn't anywhere close, you know, between medical school and residency and internship and all the things that were coming down the pipe. And I was like, this is just not happening. And but, you know, the baseline of it, and I don't know if your story is similar, I wanted to work with people. I really love people. I've always really loved people. And getting, you know, getting to know people and help people in some regard, has always been sort of my path. And my dad, like I said, was a doctor in in Dallas, and he's a, he's kind of everybody, you know, he's one of those guys that, you know, everybody loves Dr Paul kind of thing. And he just, he loved it so much. And he all the people in his community loved him so much. I just thought, well, you know, Dad does really well with this. Maybe this was, this is for me, and I realized that I could do the same helping of people as it were, and sort of, you know, being part of those communities without actually doing it in a way that, like, wasn't a full interest to me. I like science, but I never really loved it. And, like he said, he really loved it, and you really have to love it to go through that for 12 years to just get to the point where you're working you really do.

Dave Bullis 9:26
Yeah, it's very true. So, you know, you know you found out you didn't want to do it. So at what point did you decide to go to with acting full time?

Jenny Paul 9:34
It actually took me a few years to get that to that point, I was kind of, I had it in my head that acting was like a dumb idea, and that was always how it was. It was, I loved it in high school, but that's what you do in high school, you know. And I loved in, you know, and in college, but, you know, you do stuff in college, you know. And I sort of kind of was going along that way, thinking maybe I'll produce, or maybe I'll direct, or maybe I'll be in business administration and arts capacity, or, you know, figure something out in the realm of theater and and art that wasn't, as, you know, quote, unquote ridiculous as acting would be. So it actually took me almost the full three years of college to decide that I was meant to do it. I actually had a a mentor who was on a show in the 70s that just happened to work at Brandeis tiny school. Again, she was, she was on the show called Knots Landing, which was a deal, and she had a regular role, and she and I sort of just fell, fell in together, you know, out of randomly, she didn't even work for the theater department at all, and she was sort of my mentor through call and through the senior of college when I was sort of, she said, you know, she came and saw me plays and things She was like, so are you moving to New York? Then I was like, Well, you know, maybe I'm not. I don't really know. And she was like, why not? And that was kind of my year of somebody just sort of looking at me and saying, you know, what the heck, why don't you do it? You're good. Do you clearly have a passion for it, and, you know, why don't you try? And I kind of went, Well, okay, and it, you know, took me an existential crisis or two to get to that point. So then I started on weekends, my senior year of school, and I was auditioning, you know, I'd take the song while bus, for anybody who knows that bus, scariest bus ever, that for $10 from Chinatown to Chinatown, and I would audition for whatever, you know, whatever show I could get in to be seen for. And I go back to school, and I booked, I booked Funny Girl before I even graduated. So I moved out to New York to do Funny Girl pretty right away. And so, yeah, that's how I ended up here. And I just, you know, kept looking for the next job, and they kept coming, and that was, you know, and then to realize how crazy the business is of just having to keep pounding the pavement forever and ever and ever, and, you know, carve out your own space in the universe here. But that's how I ended up here. Is basically one foot in front of the other, and kind of trusting that maybe this was the right path, Even though it seemed completely ridiculous, and still sometimes,

Dave Bullis 12:25
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you mentioned the Chinatown bus before we I we start talking more about your career and everything you mentioned the Chinatown bus. I've taken the Chinatown bus as well. I mean, I know what you mean. Sometimes that you're kind of, like, is this bus gonna fall apart, as we're doing, like, 1000 miles an hour down the highway.

Jenny Paul 12:46
Have you ever been on it where it hasn't, like, stopped or broken down? Like I've never, I don't think I've had a successful run on that bus. It's so scary. And I remember we're driving one time. We're driving down the I think it's a 95 that makes sense. Down from Boston to New York. And halfway through, we passed a phone while bus, like, on the side of the road that, like, actually was on fire. And I was like, oh my god, I can't, I can't even I can't, I can't. And then I just sort of, like, took a deep breath and, like, pretended like I didn't see it, and just kept going. And I was like, You know what? They can't get off the bus now it's too late. And then, of course, you know, five or six years later, it's 85,000 options, thank God. But then not so much. That was the, that was the $10 I'm gonna, you know, save money and be a college student and hope I don't die bus.

Dave Bullis 13:40
Yeah. I The craziest story that I ever heard about that a friend of mine was taking that bus, and the driver was just going, you know, she, I don't maybe 100 some odd miles an hour or whatever, just flying, speeding down the down on 95 because this was Philly to New York. So, and what, and what he did was, he said they ended up being getting, like, pulled over, and there were so many violations with the bus. They were like, we can't actually let you keep going with this.

Jenny Paul 14:11
That's hilarious. Yeah, exactly right.

Dave Bullis 14:14
Yeah. He was like, what? Well, he goes. I made this decision to take this So now whenever I go to go to New York. I always take the bolt bus. It's, it's kind of the same price, but at least it's, you know, I don't feel like, you know, we're gonna burst into flames, like your story.

Jenny Paul 14:29
Oh yeah, absolutely not. And it just did. The bolt bus wasn't around then. I mean, you know, it wasn't like a ton, it wasn't a million years ago, but that was the only one. Then I think Mega Bus and bolt came around, and now there's, like, a whole bunch of, there's a whole bunch of different ones that go but then that was, there weren't that many options, I think, was like, Greyhound and the fun law,

Dave Bullis 14:51
Yeah, yeah, the bar was so low that they could just come in and take all the business.

Jenny Paul 14:57
Yeah, well, and Greyhound is, you know, I'm sorry. Sorry, Greyhound, but it's a really not great company either, but at least they don't blow their busses up like that's just, they're just, you know, you if you go to port authority here, even now, and you're on a Greyhound bus, and you get there half an hour early, there's no guarantee you're on the bus with your ticket, because they like, they'll let the people that miss the 6am bus on and then the ones that miss the 5am bus ahead of them, and so if you're you're on that bus and you're not there, you know, an hour ahead. Good luck. So make a bus and bolt bus. Yeah, two thumbs up, yes. Definitely take those no no experiences that I've heard of, nor had on either one of those busses that weren't just like riding a bus and getting there.

Dave Bullis 15:45
So once you finally made it to New York, you know, without, you know, just bursting into flames, the car falling or the bus falling apart. You know, you actually got, you got your first role. So, you know, take us into that, you know, how did you know? Again, I know you touched on it just briefly a couple minutes ago. But you know, what was he what was, what was the audition process like, and when you finally got to New York, you know what? What was that the whole experience like?

Jenny Paul 16:10
Well, I didn't, I didn't book the first thing off the bus. Not at all. I was doing it every weekend as many auditions as I could. You know, get in to be seen. So the first big event that happened was I was in for the producers national tour, and and I, and I, I still sing, but I sung a lot more than I was, more musicals than than plays and other things. So then I was mostly hung up for musicals, because that's sort of the world that I knew pretty well. So I had been in for the producers national tour. And if you know the producers at all, they they have a whole chorus of little old ladies, as it were, that dance in the middle, there's an act break called, along came Bialy. And so in the musical, there are three little old ladies that are cast, and they're usually not actual little old ladies. They're like people, you know, in their 30s or 40s that dress up like little old ladies because they have to dance a lot. So my first big thing here was, actually, I was in callbacks for the national tour, and I sort of kind of threw caution to the wind a little bit, and sang a song, kind of from from the show spam a lot, that was popular right around then. But I changed all the lyrics to match the the producers, sort of little old lady mentality, which I was very scared to do, because, you know, they always tell you, like, don't do anything too crazy in the room. Otherwise they're gonna look at you go, like, you have five like, you have five heads. But sometimes you know it's the right thing, and you do it, and you just hope that they that they play along with you. So I sang a song from spam a lot, called, where are you? And I basically chewed the scene, or Ferrari. And for anybody who doesn't know that term, like, basically, like, was a complete goofball in the room, and I got called back for the national tour, and I didn't end up booking it, but that was my first big okay, I'm in New York. I got taken seriously by somebody, you know, maybe I have a shot at actually doing some of this stuff. And then a few weeks later, I came in to audition for Funny Girl, and I had done funny girl in high school, so I had a particularly good relationship with that show because it was I played the fanny Fanny Bryce's mother in the high school production. And it was one of the first shows that I had like a major role in. And then I really knew that I really dug into and really got behind the character and really sort of found my own, you know, artistic voice in rather than just being in the play, I could really make interesting decisions and and kind of get behind the character in a real way. So what happened with funny girl here is I assume that I would be auditioning for, like, a chorus part, or for even maybe an understudy for Fanny, because I'm I, you know, was the right age. Fanny is usually between, I would say, 20 and 40. So she she gets older during the show, so really, anybody in that age range can play it. And, you know, I thought I was just kind of taking a shot in the dark for a chorus part, and they saw that on my resume that I had played the mother, and they asked me if I could sing the mother song. And I said, Sure, you know, I kind of went, Okay, sure. You know, I'm not going to get cast as a 60 year old woman. It's not happening. So I sang this song called who taught her everything she knows, which is the the mothers, like, you know, big moment in the show. And then I was changing out of my clothes to go get back on the bus, as I had been every weekend for the last like couple of months. And they actually caught me in the hall. They pulled me aside, and they said, Actually, can you come back? And I said, Sure. Her. So I had already changed, which was kind of awkward. And they were like, wow, you're quick. And I was like, you know, theater,

So, um, so I came back in in my jeans, instead of the dress that I actually showed up in, and ended up singing a few songs through for them. And what it turned out they were doing is it wasn't a it was a fully staged production, but it was more of a concert version of funny girl. And because of that, they didn't really have any problem casting a weird anything. And they were, they were scrambling for a mother, and they asked me to play the mother. And so that was my first New York experience. Was playing the mother of somebody that won a Tony the year I was born. So that's the that's the line I like to say. So basically, the woman who played Fanny won a Tony for a show called Jerome Robbins, Broadway, Debbie grab it was her name the year I was born. So that was my first big New York experience. And I thought to myself, I was like, Well, this is weird, and then, but, you know, jobs a job, and I love the role, and I love the show, and I had no problem with it, and I thought it was awesome. And then, after the fact, they actually switched directors mid run, the director that took over for the original director actually brought me in for the mother again, like for for a Broadway house, or for Westchester Broadway, he called me in to play the mother. And I was like, Huh, interesting.

Dave Bullis 21:46
You're being typecast already.

Jenny Paul 21:48
Typecast is the 65 you know, 60 to seven year old mother of Fanny brave. I did not get it that time, and I was not expecting to, but I thought, I thought that was crazy. But, you know, I guess, you know, with makeup and theater, you can kind of do anything to some degree. I mean, I hope that people weren't like, what is this girl doing? Doing this? But, you know, they had me in plenty of makeup, in a wig and whatever. So what the hell. So, yeah, that's how I made it to New York. Is I just kept auditioning for everything, anything I could get my hands on anybody that would see me my senior year of college, and I basically just carved out every single weekend to do it. And so I moved here to start rehearsals for Funny Girl. And I booked a show the day I moved here, different show down at the 13th street Repertory Theater, which is, which the woman is now, I think 102 then she was in was 90. The woman that cast me was 90. I last I checked she's still alive. I went to visit her a few weeks ago, and her son was there. Since her name was Edith O'Hara, and her son's name Jack O'Hara. And I saw I ran into her son, and they were moving her from her house to a home of some sort, so I wasn't able to see her, but I'm pretty sure she's still alive. Last time I saw her, she was pretty with it, and we took a selfie together, and she was 99 and apparently that was her first selfie.

Dave Bullis 23:17
What do you think the secret one is to for her, you know that longevity, you know, still being able to do what you love. You know at that, you know, the age of 90.

Jenny Paul 23:27
Oh, man. She was so brilliantly stubborn that woman, like in the best possible way. So her daughters are, are a couple of them are pretty famous. I think her daughter Jenny O'Hara is, was the mom on the King of Queens and and her daughter, Jill O'Hara was original cast of Promises, promises, and she sang that song, what do you get when you fall in love that one? And she sang it originally, Burt bacharat song. So her kids did really well, too. And I think her son, Jack is a musician, a pretty, pretty good one, if I recall. So I don't know. I think she just lived, you know, she was here, and she was really passionate about everything. So she was, you know, she was fixing blocking. She was like, moving herself to go fix blocking on stage for a play that I was in with her. That was the one that I did just after funny girl, and she, if she didn't like something, she just moved. She got up and she said, No, no, not this way. I want it this way. And she had, if I remember correctly, she had macular degeneration, and she still, every day would, you know, get up and go to rehearsal and, you know, and make, make sure the show looked like she wanted it to look so, yeah, I don't know. I think, I mean, she was a pistol, so maybe that's the key to life, is just having, you know, passion and energy for everything. I don't know. I'll find out. I'll let you know. And another 60. Four years.

Dave Bullis 25:02
Please, do please, please share if I, if I'm even if I, if I make it to 35 it'll be a miracle, right?

Jenny Paul 25:09
That's kind of how I feel like, you know, I'm going through. I mean, life is good, but you know, you feel yourself getting older, you're like, Okay, this, this hurts. The distance used to hurt, you know, this kind of thing, and you're okay, well, I hope, I hope it, I hope it holds out a while, that'll be good.

Dave Bullis 25:27
You know, I always say that to people I'm kind of like the guy you shouldn't, shouldn't ask about. You know, you're only as old as you feel, because I perpetually feel like I'm 99 years old. So that's why, I mean so with Edith, I was hoping to get some tips, because I mentally and physically, I'm 99 years old.

Jenny Paul 25:44
I don't know if I'm 99 but I think I think, like, solid 80s. That's where I think I I just, you know, like, I just like, you know, I wake up and I go, Okay, today's happening cool. Let's move on.

Dave Bullis 26:01
But you're in your 80s, at least, you know what a selfie is. Though that's the best important

Jenny Paul 26:04
Thing selfie is. I very much know what selfie is, although I very much disapprove of the duck face. Yeah, I will say, yeah, the duck face just ridiculous on everybody. I'm sorry, guys, yeah,

Dave Bullis 26:16
Yeah, it's, it's passe. I once got into an argument with somebody at their wedding because they accused me of making the duck face. And I said, I never would make that face. What are you talking about? And you know, it was like a photograph of me in front of a car. And everyone was like, Oh, I think, you know, I think you are did make the duck face? Was like, No, I didn't come on. Why would I make a duck face?

Jenny Paul 26:36
So maybe you caught me in a duck like scenario, possibly the only, the only duck face you'll ever catch me making is with the two Pringles that, that duck face. I approval,

Dave Bullis 26:47
Yeah, yeah. I remember that. I learned those commercials

Jenny Paul 26:51
Where you put the Pringles on top of each other, and you get a beak. That's a duck face.

Dave Bullis 26:54
Yeah, yeah. I remember those commercials. So, uh Oh yeah, for everyone listening, you know, I we were like, Why the hell they talk about Pringles now? But, you know, it's, it's all good. It's, I just want to get back, Jenny, to talk about your career, you know, because I actually looked at your IMDB, and I was like, wow, you know, she's had a, you know, pretty interesting career, because you not only have one foot in acting and one foot in in producing, but when did you because you were on in theater, you're on the stage, you know, when did you start to make that transition to film?

Jenny Paul 27:28
Oh, um, great question. I um, I think around, I mean, I was always sort of predisposed to it, my, my, my acting style was always a little bit on the more natural side, even in theater, and I always had to sort of push to make it energetic enough to fill a stage. And that was always something that I that I naturally if I got to choose for myself, I wouldn't have done. But I also knew that that's what the medium required. So I guess maybe four or five years ago, I started doing film stuff, and it again, felt more natural to me that I love theater and it's a totally different beast, and I do it all the time still, but but just kind of being able to kind of talk and do things at a level that made sense to me in my life, and you know, and I always think of good storytelling as revealing truths, and, you know, allowing an audience member to sort of feel what you're feeling to some degree, and not to feel alone in their feelings. And so to me, film and television at its best, really, is that same nuanced thing as being a humanist. So if you can look at something and recognize it as real, then inevitably you're going to be able to relate to it more. And that, that's the thing about. And again, it's all about it has to be good. It's not, you know, it has to be good. Writing, it has to be good. Production value has to be everything else. But it's the closest thing I think we have as a society, as an actor anyway, and maybe even in storytelling, it's, it's arguable, but that that that mimics life the most closely, and I think that's what's really attracted to me. So maybe the answer is four, five years ago, I started doing a lot of small films and and web series, things like that, and then, and then in the last few years, that sort of has more from, you know, little things and bigger things. And that's sort of how my trajectory was in theater as well as, you know, everything was regional houses and things like that when I first started. And then, and then, you know, I would be playing leads in in in the regional houses, and that's around the time I started transitioning into, into film TV, also the pressure, you know, it's different. I would say it's a little less in film and television, because you can always get another take.

That being said, you know, it's an interesting third, there's a lot of differences, but I think that's the answer to your question, and, and, and I really, you know, I really love both of them for different reasons.

Dave Bullis 30:20
Yeah, you know. And just working with different actors, you know, even some of whom were, like, I actually was working with them in their first film project, you know, they noticed that it was a little bit different, because you can do multiple takes. You know, there really isn't an audience except for maybe the director, and if you want to count the crew and anybody else you know, like maybe some other cast watching the scene. But you know what I mean, you do get multiple takes, you know what I mean, and you do get the ability to change, you know, change, making a change, you know, like an acting, you say, making a change or, you know, and actually it does take off a lot of that, that pressure, sometimes,

Jenny Paul 31:00
Yeah, no. I mean, it really does in certain ways. And like I said, they're just kind of different one of them, you know, I think any, any really good actor, will tell you that the rehearsal process is where a lot of the major creativity happens on stage and on film. It's always a rehearsal process. They're just taping the rehearsal so you're learning, you know, you You're, you're learning and discovering as they're taping it versus doing, you know, nine, I would say, 90% of your learning and discovery and rehearsal, bringing it to the show at 90% and then finding the nuance as you run the show. So it's, you know, it's just, it's a different playground, as it were, but, but I really, I really do enjoy it, and I am, you know, not having the pressure on does make a big difference in some regards, because especially when you're coming up in the business, you want to make sure that you know that you give your absolute best. And a lot of times, your absolute best doesn't necessarily need to come with an entire, you know, truckload of adrenaline, as it were, yeah? And that's kind of, you know, that's kind of what happens when you're when you're newer to things, and, you know, when you're trying to sort of figure it all out,

Dave Bullis 32:14
Yeah. And that's what we all do, too. Sometimes, you know, you just kind of gotta, sometimes you jump into things and, you know, sometimes you end up taking things too seriously. You know what I mean? And what I mean by that is, you know, you want to be serious about it, because obviously, this is your craft, this is your passion. But sometimes, if you know, and this has happened, you know, to other people, found the podcast as well where, you know, they kind of lose sight of that, you know, this was supposed to be fun, or what was the original idea behind this? Because they end up, you just sort of get lost in a cycle, you know what I mean, of like, you know, and then you, then you get the you and I know you've probably met people like this too, where you get people where they're not, they're not able to sort of function unless, like, everything's collapsing around them, you know what I mean?

Jenny Paul 32:58
Yeah, I know those people. I might have been one of those people in college. You know, it's the idea of, like you can't do the essay until the last possible second, and then you put out a brilliant essay, and you realize that if you just had another day to edit it, that it would have been that much better.

Dave Bullis 33:14
Yeah, yeah. It's like everything's always last minute, like everything's a disaster. Oh, my God. What are we gonna do

Jenny Paul 33:20
Exactly! You know. I mean, there's a lot of that mixed into this business as it is. The more that you you know as a as an artist, the more that you can do without that you know, then you have the energy reserves for the times where you really need it.

Dave Bullis 33:35
Yeah, yeah. So, so, you know. So just going, going along with your career. Jenny, you you got to appear on Jessica Jones, and that's something I saw on your IMDB as well. So when you appear on that shows, you know, how did you just go to the did you go to an audition? Did you get, you know, somebody reach out to you for the for the part?

Jenny Paul 33:56
Oh, no. So, so most things, for the most part, most television and film, unless you're Meryl Streep or somebody really important in the industry, is auditions. Everything is and a lot of times they'll audition you, even if they already want you, because they want to make sure you're the right fit for that role. So No, actually, that was the second time I was in that casting office, the first time, I believe I was in for the defenders. Although they audition you for things, they actually use code names for everything. I think they want to make sure that you're not leaking information all over the place. So I'm pretty sure it was the defenders and I went in and auditioned for something thing and and didn't hear back. And then I called back in a few weeks later for this one, and I actually the role was for fan girl. So that's not quite the role that I ended up in. And I actually think they rewrote it between time that I auditioned and the time that I shot it, but the role was for fan girl, so I came in in my. I have one, one Marvel sweatshirt that I got from running the half marathon in LA, the Disney half marathon, the one marathon that I ever ran for any reason. Won't do it again. Probably it was just epic. But so I have the jacket that says the Avengers on the back. So I wore that, and I wore some, like, kind of my goofier, like, earrings and stuff, and I came in as full fan girl to the audition. So, yeah, that's what I remember about that audition, is I just had a lot of fun with it. I came in and I was, like, completely sycophantic, and I was, you know, played with the full on fan girl for that, for that piece. And then I got a call, I think, the next day to put me on hold for that, and then I found out a week later that I got the role, actually. So it was really fun. The casting offices, they're really nice, and they're really a generous bunch of people, and so it was absolutely a pleasure. And it was very easy and quick. And, you know, I went in and I did my thing, and I got a call, you know, and I do, I'd go in and do my thing all the time for lots of people, but it was, there was nothing, you know, overwhelming about it in any way. It was just like, oh, you know, she asked me, Would you like to be on a Netflix show, you know, on the Netflix Marvel show. And I said, Absolutely yes. And I didn't actually find out until I got to set that it was Jessica Jones. I had no clue. So that was kind of fun finding out that it was Jessica Jones, because I knew from just watching the shows and from from the that that that was one of the more popular ones. So it was cool that it was that one, because I really had no idea, as far as I knew, that we're gonna create five more shows, and this was one of them,

Dave Bullis 36:45
Yeah, you know, in Marvel, you know, and all the other comic book you know, properties, you know, Marvel DC, making all their, you know, all these TV shows and movies. You know, it's, I've had other people in the podcast just talking about, you know, all the content being made by, you know, existing properties right now. You know what I mean? It's just, you know, the one movie right now, as we're as we're recording, this is Black Panther, you know? And just a, I'm sorry

Jenny Paul 37:11
I said, Yep, I was gonna say I've heard amazing things about the movie,

Dave Bullis 37:14
You know. I'm gonna admit I'm actually superhero moving out. I had friends want to take me see Thor Ragnarok. And I'm like, I just, I can't, I just can't do it.

Jenny Paul 37:26
It's fair. It's really fair. There's so many, and that's really, it's really dominating the movie scene to some degree. So it's like, you know, which superhero movie you can see today? Yeah,

Dave Bullis 37:37
But, but no. And some of them are, you know, are actually, you know, I think going into Netflix and making something episodic, something episodic is actually more beneficial, because I think you can, you can you tell it a different way? And I think sometimes with the movies, I always feel like, I always say to people, they're just a setup to the next movie which I understand what they're doing. And believe me, I'm not one of these cynical people. What I'm just saying it's just like, almost like, they have a great idea for a story, but somebody goes, no, no, that'll be the sequel. This is going to be that, you know what? I mean, like, I just think that type of,

Jenny Paul 38:12
I totally get it too. And, you know, it's the concept of like, you know, as a viewer, to some degree, that you're being marketed to, but also, like you, the stories usually are pretty freaking good, so you want to enjoy what they do have, yeah, I totally get that.

Dave Bullis 38:28
So, you know. And just to go back to my question about, you know, just about, you know, how you got cast, and Jessica Jones, I just, I was just, you know, basically asking, you know, I know, I, you know, actors have to go to auditions and stuff like that. I meant to say was just about your network. I thought maybe, you know, just meeting different people, like, you know, Jenny, somebody may have said, Hey, I know this girl. She does, you know, she's good at, great at this, and you got a phone call to come down for the auditions. What I meant was what I was trying to say, because, like, sometimes you know that that's happened, you know, where people have called in, or people have called people and just said, Hey, look, you know, I know that there's a, hey, you're looking for a specific looking person who's a huge fan girl. I know a person. Her name is Jenny Paul.

Jenny Paul 39:09
Not this one, I don't think, but it's happened before. I would say that the big network ones, they're usually auditions, and it's usually kind of the same story where you go in and you got a script a day or two before, maybe three days before, and you, you know, you kind of get to know it, and you do your audition and you go home. But for the smaller stuff, for the, you know, first, for for for web series that are more kind of indie and streaming films and indie films and anything that's sort of on the middle scale of money, budget. That happens all the time. I get calls all the time to do things. I'm doing, what I'm doing a pilot. I'm reading a puppet pilot next week that I'm really excited about. And the person that invited me to do it, there's a writing team. One of the writers worked with me on a show.

A year ago, a version of a Christmas carol that we did in Brooklyn for a couple of nights, and the other one directed one of the web series that I was in a few years ago. And they thought of me. They both knew me, and they both knew the work. So a lot of especially on the development level and on the sort of mid budget level, a lot of it is, you know, you get a call. So, yeah, absolutely knowing people. And New York is a big, small town, as it were, in terms of this business. So knowing people is is essential for all of the sort of miscellaneous jobs. And even with the big jobs I my manager has, you know, my manager, my agent, have to know me in order to put me up for a thing. So there's, there's a barrier to entry to some degree to even get in the room to be seen for a coastal Jessica Jones or a regular on the Looming Tower, you somebody has to know your work to eating to the point where you're able to audition for those things.

Dave Bullis 41:09
Yeah. Yeah. Very true. And you mentioned the Looming Tower. But I just wanted to, before we get into the Looming Tower and just discussing that project I know you, you actually have produced too. So I wanted to ask, you know, how did you get into into producing? Because I think it's a great idea for actors, by the way, especially actors, meaning, because I think, you know, once they they become more basically, you know, if you wanted to make something, you put, you know, not only just put yourself into it, but also you have a pool of actor friends, obviously, right? So you know what I mean, like, if you if you were gonna make something, you already say, like, again, like we were just talking about, hey, I have actors. I know actors, and I think that's why I always say, like, you know, producing is a very good skill for anyone to have, but particularly actors. So, you know what you know, got you into actual, you know, deciding to go behind the camera to produce,

Jenny Paul 41:59
Right Well, harkening back to feeling like I'm making a dumb decision in college, I was always sort of producing things, whether it was, you know, shows in college, or I founded this thing at my school called the 24 hour musical that's now become like their tradition, and I certainly had no intention of doing that, nor did I know that it was going to be such a big hit. But it was all about creating my own opportunities. And back in high school, I was in, I was in the robotics club because one of my best friends was there, and I was the only girl in the club, except for my friend and and I ended up basically doing all the fundraising, and effectively, what what I would do, you know, national robot competition. So this is stuff that's like been, you know, I've been doing forever, and I realized that, you know, it's just a combination of sort of creative event planning, as it were. So really, all producing takes is, you know, I may say all, but it's a lot of hard work, but it's also just being resourceful and kind of creative. And I think most actors, as you say, most actors, have that in spades, at least really good ones they have, you know, most of these people are super resourceful, and they're people, they're people, people, and that's a huge part of it, is that you don't really go into acting if you don't like people, because you spend your days, you know, kind of learning this, like college people. That's what acting is, that it's cool. So most people that fall into that, unless they really, really like attention, tend to be people that you know, collaborating with others to get something done in a cool or creative way. So I think you have the right it's a great place for actors, especially actors with a business head, because there's just, you know, there there's tons of there's tons of opportunities in producing, and they create tons more opportunities for artists across the board, not just active, but no, I fell into it, because acting is not a full time job, even when you have a full time job acting, I this year, I I made a full salary as an actor. And I probably worked, I don't know, maybe 30 days this year, maybe. So there's just a lot of debt downtime, you know, I'm in auditions maybe once or twice a week, if you know, more, if it's pilot season, less, if it's, you know, a slower season. And and you just have a lot of time on your hands. So why not create, you know, I'm kind of chomping at the bit to do that. So why not do it, you know, do it in a way that that, you know, I'm creating my own projects while I'm waiting for the next, the next big acting product to come along.

Dave Bullis 44:57
So, so, you know, as you got into produce. You know, what were some of the biggest challenges, like, what was the biggest challenge that you've ever faced as a producer?

Jenny Paul 45:07
The biggest challenges are always money, always finding money, you know, funding the things, budgeting the things. But aside from that, I would say the biggest actual day to day challenge for me, if you're not, if I'm not, you know, looking for money for a show is, is when, when somebody doesn't want to be a team player, it's really hard to to do the work as best as possible. So I, you know, now, with a lot of experience, I try to hire the right people from the get go, people that I know that'll work together, and that'll, that'll, you know, team up to make the best possible art that they can make as a team. But inevitably, there's always a couple of people that are in cruise or casts that don't that, that, you know, kind of sabotage efforts on the inside. And that's kind of that probably is my biggest, you know, challenge as a producer is, is spotting that really fast and making sure, one that the morale of the project is really solid and strong, and that everybody's going in with a good attitude as much as possible, but also just making sure that you know the that the priorities of one Don't, don't take away from the creative process of the many. And that's a little vague, but that is actually kind of the hardest thing that I deal with on a day to day, is, is, is people that don't have the best interests of the project in mind, trying to make trouble drama, as it were,

Dave Bullis 46:48
Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, I, you know, I, I've encountered them myself, and, you know, we, I've heard some horror stories in this podcast. You know, you when you, when you have somebody who shows up to set, and just basically, for one reason or another, doesn't want to sort of, you know, play the game, so to speak. They don't want to, you know, they just want to sort of cause trouble. And I have a friend of mine, Jenny, and not to distract from your story, but I have a friend of mine, I'm trying to get on this podcast, and he had one of the craziest stories about somebody like that. And I'll tell you what I'll give you, I'll give you just a sample of the story. Basically, this person was an actor on The Sopranos, and basically was angry at him for not being able to destroy the project. And that's all I'm gonna say. So that's my

Jenny Paul 47:44
Wow, wow, wow. That's a lot.

Dave Bullis 47:48
Yeah, it's, it's

Jenny Paul 47:50
It happens all the time, and, you know, it's this interesting thing. And you know, this is kind of my theory. And you know, it's, maybe it's good theory. Maybe it's not a good theory, but I would say 80 to 90% of the people that come into this business are the most collaborative, empathetic, wonderful people that you'll ever meet in your life. And they're attracted to the arts because they had some sort of life trauma, or they really they needed to be there. It was. It was a compulsion in some way, and they realized that that telling stories is the way to get other people to not feel alone in the world. And, you know, in it, they something resonated with them, and it became really important for them to do this as a, you know, as a career or as a choice in their life. And the other handful of people are super, for lack of a better word, narcissistic and, and they go into it because they're seeking attention and and inevitably in something well like acting or even in production, but more acting, I would say inevitably, you're going to have a handful of those people, because acting is such a sure fire way to get that attention if you can succeed at it. So we find a lot of people scattered around that that that do this stuff, and it's not because maybe they're even intending to do it. It's because, you know, that's how they are. So they, you know, and I really, truly believe that that producing, but also acting and just art in general, is very much a collaborative sport as it were, and it's really hard to get the best possible art made when somebody's not working toward the better good of the art, when they're working toward the better good of them, as it were, or whatever other priorities they have on the table. So yeah, I I'm not super surprised to hear your mini vague story about the sopranos, but I've, I've heard things like that. And you know what? Things do get killed that way. I had a project that I worked on with somebody and and I found out. Six months later that they had fully developed it without talking to me about it.

And and I, yeah, I called the production company that bought the the rights to that project and said, Hey, what gives? And I didn't, you know, we didn't even get that far and, and it scared him enough to kill the project. And, you know, and I didn't even intended that was tension at all. I just called to say, like, Hey, I was the CO conceiver on this project, like, and you kind of knew that. So, so why'd you buy this product from somebody who didn't own it, you know? And then I kind of just said, like, and, you know, immediately he was like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. And then the next thing I know, they just, instead of dealing with me or whatever I could have theoretically brought to the table, they just decided to hell with it, and they dumped the project. So it does happen, you know, stuff happens. It's nuts. It's a nutsy business, and people get crazy and desperate and all sorts of stuff.

Dave Bullis 51:09
Yeah, yeah. And the reason, you know, I told that story, I didn't want to give away all the details. I want my friend to tell it because I because he had, because, like, you know, you know what it was, Jenny. He was telling me the story One day we had gotten lunch, and he does a lot of work. He's a lot of, there's a lot of cinematography. He's actually a cinematographer, right? So what happens is, you know, he's, you know, we're just going back and forth, you know, we were at one of those, you know, the 8000 pizza places in Philadelphia, and, you know, we're just sitting there. He said to me, he was just telling me the story out of nowhere. And I'm like, what that happened? And then then this guy doing the project, and that happened, and then then you got this location, then that happened. And then by the end, he was like, it all came out of I mean, this story, I really got to get him on here. I don't want to tell it because I want him to tell because it's his story. But by the end, I was like, I was like, did anybody get arrested for this, or did anybody get in trouble? And and he goes, he goes, Well, you know, I'm gonna let him tell that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave it on a cliffhanger, a lot like, a lot like a Marvel movie I'm setting up for the secret. But, but, no, no, I, had my own story too. Jenny was somebody who was just more or less they came on the project, was interested, and then all of a sudden, as soon as that M word money got thrown around, even though it's not a lot, it's like, Oh my God. Now it's my project, and you're gonna screw it up, so now I gotta take over. Like, whoa. Pump the brakes. Let's just pump the brakes here.

Jenny Paul 52:41
Yeah. Also, I think people have a miss, miss, misunderstanding about money in this business, it's hard to make money in this business, like a lot of people do these things on, on spec or on, you know, low so even, even if a project gets a lot of play, you know, on a mid level, it's still probably not making money. And, you know, I remember my very first short film that I made and I put it on, it got a distribution platform, and everything else that I put it on, I got my first royalty check, and it was for a grand total of 47 cents.

Dave Bullis 53:17
Nice work Jenny.

Jenny Paul 53:20
Hey, 47 cents. And you know what I couldn't put couldn't have been happy about it, because, frankly, that film wasn't gonna make money. It never was, you know. So it's sort of like, that's, you know, a lot of people, you know, that's another thing about the business, is that there's just no money in the business unless you hit a certain level of work, you know, unless you're working for a network, or unless you, you know, you have a sponsor, you have an advertiser, or you you know something, really, they don't, you know, a lot of the work that people are making nowadays just doesn't make money. And I heard your your podcast last week, and you're talking about, you know, a lot of this, everybody can make a movie now, so that, you know, you were talking about that with, with Lloyd, and, you know, everybody can make, everybody can make a movie. So, because everybody can make a movie, there's, there's tons of stuff out there that just doesn't have anything, you know, any profitability. It has, it's good creatively, but it's not necessarily making money. So there's, it's not like, you know, everybody's champ at the back to, like, the part of my 47

Dave Bullis 54:28
Yeah, right. It's the more I mean, because if you're gonna make a movie, and I've, you know, gone over this before, too, with with different guests, I always say there's no harm, honestly, and just making a short film, or what have you, or a trailer, and then just putting it on YouTube and just, you know, making sure you SEO the hell out of it, and then just saying, what? However the chips lie. That's how they lie. Because I think that's healthier and better for a lot of people than getting this obsession about, oh, we got to go to Sundance with this thing. And or like, yo, hey, this thing's gonna be sold to Marvel for $8 million you know what I mean? I think that that, that that mindset really starts to hinder people after a while, after, well, after a while, after short time too, right?

Jenny Paul 55:14
And it doesn't, I mean, you know, at best, some like the, you know, we're seeing feature films make less and less and less, though, these huge, as we're talking about it, these huge superhero movies. You know, the the movie that we, you know, we used to go see in the theaters, like the Sister Act or whatever in the 90s, doesn't. It doesn't exist anymore. If it does, it's on the it's on the indie scale. It's not we're going to pay, you know, $15 in the movie theater to see. So these, these films that used to actually make some money because they were what was available, don't necessarily make money. They have, they have, you know, bit of distribution internationally, and maybe they have some domestic distribution, but it's not like a big money maybe. And people think, Oh, I'm gonna, you know, do a film and I'm gonna make a million bucks, and it just doesn't work that way, unless there's a certain, you know, combination of people behind that movie, yeah. So, you know, do it for the money. If you did it for the money, you would not do this for a living. It's just not the money isn't good enough for, you know, 99% of the people in the business. Yeah.

Dave Bullis 56:20
Very, very true Jenny. Very true Jenny. I know we're starting to run, running out of time, but before we get, before we run out of time, I just want to talk about the Looming Tower, the new, your new series on Hulu. So could you just, you know, tell me, tell us, you know a little bit more about the series.

Jenny Paul 56:38
Sure, it's, it's an, it's a really interesting take based on the Pulitzer Prize winning book that came out after 911 of basically, the book sort of talks about how the United States missed 911 and this is a dramatized version of a non fiction book. But, you know, there are a lot of fictional elements. They've written a lot of fictional characters to make it more heightened and dramatic about how the FBI and the CIA Misty each other, and some ways enough of the information that they were getting pre 911 to actually prevent 911 from happening. And so inevitably, the show is about, you know, flawed humans on both sides of the coin, not fully communicating. And you know, interestingly, as we were talking about fully being on the same to protect the United States from the attacks. And so I've only seen the pilot. I've read the series. It's really, as far as I can tell, it's really going to be something fantastic. It's, it sort of feels like a really intense version of homeland, and I think the intensity comes from the fact that it's true or based on true things. So it's a little more. It's, you know, it's a lot, because it's 911 and, you know, I was around then, I was a junior in high school, so I remember all that, but at the same token, it, it does a lot of, you know, exploring the humanity of the people that were surrounding that time, and what was going on in the rise of al Qaeda, and you know where the US was in terms of dealing with it, and you know how it all sort of came to be. So for anybody who's a history buff, it'll be something really very cool, because it feels like a fiction, but it's actually largely based in reality, or at least in reality is told by Lawrence Wright, who who wrote the book. So, so, yeah, it's really cool. I play a CIA sister. There's a like I said, there's the FBI and the CIA. And for all intents and purposes, the CIA is, is the antagonist in this in this store, the guy that runs the CIA, the character's name is Martin Schmidt, and he's kind of implied that he's purposefully withholding information because he feels like it. And I play a CIA agent that works for his department, and I sort of am a lemming, as it were, so they make jokes about he, it's just him and a bunch of young women that are running this department, and they're all following him like lemmings. And I'm one of the lemmings. So it was, it was a really, really cool project to work on and and, you know, it's not often you to work on something that feels like it might actually be really impactful. You know, most of the time you get what you get, and you do what you do, and that's what it is. And that this one was, was really special. The team was absolutely fantastic, collaborative. The cast was, you know, amazing to work with, the ones that were in it, a little bit more than me, the people that I worked with. Most were Peter Sarsguard and Ren Schmidt..

And they were lovely to work with. And the other three women that played the lemmings with me and says, Katie clay hive, Sharon Washington and Erica Cho and, you know, it was just, it was as much fun as you have working on something that's as serious as it is. And you know, our characters are comic relief as well. So that was kind of nice that we had a lot of these kind of jokey scenes, which is cool, but, um, but, yeah, I I'm really, I'm really thrilled to be working on something that seems like it's going to be something really wonderful. And, you know, with Hulu, the hand The Handmaid's Tale just came out and did well. So I think they're really poised to get some, some, some real dealership on the show.

Dave Bullis 1:01:02
Yeah, you know. And it's funny too, because, you know, Hulu, you know, they're getting into the original content game, and which, which is, you know, good. Because I think eventually, you know, well, I think Netflix all the writing on the wall too, that eventually, you know, with all the movies that they have, they're gonna have to have some original content, because otherwise I'll just gonna be keep licensing the same stuff and then, you know, and now everyone's getting their own channels. Like criterion is getting their own channel. You know, NBC is gonna start holding their own content back now and then, if you want to see what I mean now, I think that's this. Are the future. But basically, Jenny, you and I, in a couple years, gonna be telling people like, hey, remember the days when you could just watch HBO, and you can see everyone's movies on there.

Jenny Paul 1:01:45
It's true. I mean, you know, I have, I had Hulu before I booked this show because, um, because, you know, it was one of, you know, we had Netflix first, I think everybody did. And then Hulu was sort of the next big up in terms of original content. And then Amazon is the other one. So those are the three that we have. And then, you know, we ended up buying, you know, we ended up doing HBO GO because of Game of Thrones. And so basically, these, these channels, effectively, are attracting viewership, literally, so people can watch one great show. And now I really like Hulu because it has all the network stuff, and I don't even have to turn on cable. I can just watch it on Hulu. So I watch the the new nine. Oh, it's called 911 the Fox series. I watched that on Hulu. I watched Will and Grace on Hulu. I watch what else did I see this week, even on there. Oh, Nashville I saw at some point, and I watched that on Hulu. So, I mean, I don't even have to go to TV, which is kind of nuts that they're making it so that, you know, the cable doesn't even have to be a thing if you don't want it to be, yeah. So I think that's crazy, you know, like, I can't imagine a world with which cable is, you know, obsolete, but who knows could be?

Dave Bullis 1:03:00
I concur. I think it's coming very, very rapidly, with everyone cutting the cord and, you know, it's just, and then with so much original content out there, whether it be on YouTube or Hulu or what have you, it's just, it's just, you know, there's a lot more options and a lot more accessible options. We don't have to have a Comcast box anymore or whatever, you know to view these things, but, but, you know, and that's something to that, you know, I found just talking with, with people like yourself, Jenny, just, you know, what everyone is experiencing, and what everyone is seeing out there when they're doing these projects and and what they're being told by different people who you know, who you know are, sort of have their who are sort of in the know, if you if you will, but, but, Jenny, when does Looming Tower? When is that premiering on Hulu?

Jenny Paul 1:03:44
I believe it's premiering on Wednesday, the 28th of February, and I can't remember if it's actually, I don't know if it's three episodes or four episodes that they're dropping that night. So they'll do I think the Hulu model is that they, they, they draw three or four, and then they do once a week, think that what's happening, my guess, my educated guess, would be, they're gonna have the first three episodes, and then for the next seven weeks after that, it'll be every Wednesday night, they'll put a new one out. And it's 1010, episodes total. So, so that's what I think. I think that's what they're doing, and, and, and I, I'm in the first one, but I don't really show up till the third so stick with it.

Dave Bullis 1:04:32
Well, that's good if Hulu drops the first four, then that people can watch the first one, and then, you know, the watch the second, but the third one, then, you know, they're already since it's already dropped, I think it's a little more easier,

Jenny Paul 1:04:44
Right! Well, hopefully we'll see I, like I said, I am in the first one. I went to the premiere last week at the Paris Theater in New York, and I was I took my manager as my date. My fiance was at his bachelor party, which was exciting. Um, so I took her and she saw me in the episode, and she was like, Oh, look, it's you. And I was like, yep, that's all you can see of me until I'm so three. But the pilot was really, really good, so I'm, you know, like I said, I'm thrilled. I think it's going to be really fantastic. And if you can, if you can stomach watching a show about 911 in a real way. I think, I think it'll be something really, really awesome.

Dave Bullis 1:05:26
Yeah, yeah, it's and I'm gonna make sure to link to all this in the show notes everybody, because, you know, I read up about the show, and I think it's gonna be pretty interesting too, because it's always about information, right? And I think that's what technology is, is I? One thing I've come to Jenny to understand is that technology, let me take a step back, even before technology, it's all about telling stories and communication, right? And I think that's what stories are, is communication. Everything's communication. Whether I'm communicating to you, you're communicating to me, we're communicating to the world. And technology has sort of put that on steroids now. So now, you know, now, with all the you know, everyone has their own content channels, you know, cell phones, podcast, everything now can be told, the communication happens a lot faster. So it's a show essentially about communication and what, you know, withholding facts and stuff like that. So it's, you know, and not only that, but it's also about, you know, a very tragic day that happened, you know, 17 years ago now, my God, Jenny, 17 years ago. I just, I just, I went, what? It just hit me like a sack of bricks. Oh, my God.

Jenny Paul 1:06:35
But yeah, well, at least they won't say it's too soon to do this. That'll be one thing.

Dave Bullis 1:06:40
Yeah, yeah. My I just, I just, I mean, my God, I did. It just hit me, like, literally, so, but it's all about communication, so I wanted it so. So that's why I think this shows me interesting about that you know about September 11, and it's a new vantage point to explore the events, and new, new idea by the show too, that I think is it's unique feel to it. But that's why, you know, and again, that's why I wanted to have you on the show, just to talk about that and and also about, you know, your career and everything else I'm always in down to talk to interesting people. Jenny, so you're, you're a very interesting person, and I, and you know, this has been a fun conversation. So just in closing, Jenny, you know where people find you? At online.

Jenny Paul 1:07:19
Well, IMDb is always a great place. They they keep good records there. My, my website is actually jennypaul.info and not.com because, because, I think about 10 years before I tried to get my domain name, a really nice couple named Jenny and Paul decided to come together and get married and have that, have that domain name, but it is Jenny Paul dot info. So, so, yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. I'm on Instagram and Facebook and all of the things. So you can, anybody can find me in any of the things I'm I'm easy to, easy enough to find. But, yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. And you know, the Looming Tower, and Jessica Jones is coming out March 8. So if you're, if you're a Marvel fan or Jessica Jones fan, that's, that's the magic day.

Dave Bullis 1:08:14
And I will link to all of everything that Jenny and I talked about in the show notes. And I'll make sure to link to the right website too. Not, not jennypaul.com

Jenny Paul 1:08:20
And, yeah, that's like, I couldn't. I was like, Oh, they must have been married for they must have like, seven children by now. And I still couldn't figure out how to get the domain name. So if you're out there, Jenny and Paul, let's talk. But So jennypaul.info will have to do for now.

Dave Bullis 1:08:40
It's kind of like that, uh, remember those old talk shows in the 90s and stuff where they'd have a surprise guest, like, well, Jenny, you're in luck. Behind this door is Jenny and Paul. Uh, like, remember, remember those talk shows they'd be like, well, you have an enemy, huh? Well, guess who's joining us? And they like what

Jenny Paul 1:08:57
I feel like. I feel like they still exist. I feel like that's like Maury and those those shows where they're like, so you had this, you know, long lost lover that you haven't talked to in 15 years. Guess what? We brought him on the show. Hey, thanks for that. Thanks for that. Exactly what I needed today, of all days, is to, you know, confront my love for 15 years,

Dave Bullis 1:09:22
Yeah, confront that old crush who got away. Thanks a lot for rubbing the salt in those wounds, right?

Jenny Paul 1:09:27
Thanks. You know, I spent enough time dodging them on the subway.

Dave Bullis 1:09:32
Now they're here after me. But Jenny, it's been great having you on.