IFH 843: How to Turn a Short Film Into a Film Career with Jennifer & Kevin Sluder

Alex Ferrari 0:00
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 0:00
On this week's show. Speaking of which, we have two great guests. They're a husband and wife team who were, who were both from North Carolina, and now they both live out in Los Angeles. They started their own film production company called sunshine boy productions in 2015 and even before that, the the husband was a was a Nicole fellowship semi finalist, a two time script pipeline top 20 finalist, a tracking board recommend. He's won a ton of other screenwriting competitions. And they, they went out to LA and they started to, you know, produce their own films. And they, they, they finally, now are going to produce their own film, which is called heartless, which we're going to talk about in the show. And we talk about all these different things, about putting together packages, about attracting investors, about how you do all this other stuff. And, you know, their husband and wife team work together. Do they kill each other or they plot in each other's you know, they plot each other's demise like, almost like a movie. We're gonna talk about all that good stuff on this week's episode of the podcast with guests Jennifer and Kevin Sluder, yeah, I'm in Philly. I think it's like 20 degrees outside right now.

Kevin Sluder 0:00
Yeah, because I wore from that Super Bowl Championship. So I'll carry you through the long cold winter man.

Dave Bullis 0:00
Yeah, the fires of the city burning down are kind of out by now.

Kevin Sluder 0:00
Yeah, no doubt

Dave Bullis 0:00
When, when they had gone that when they won the Super Bowl, the people were actually messaging me like, you're not out in that, are you? And I was like, No, I know way better than that. I said that people out in that were just either they knew, didn't know any better, or they were so plaster they didn't know where they were, because it was unbelievable, because, like, I have friends and they were posting videos on their Facebooks, like people were out in the street firing their guns and stuff and like that.

Kevin Sluder 0:46
Yeah, we had that back when the Lakers won the the NBA Finals, and we were out in a bar, and, man, there was this energy, because everybody knew they were going to win, and then they did win. And I just turned to Jim. I was like, we need to go home. Let's the game is cool, but let's go home. Let's go home, because we were on Hollywood boulevards. There's a little bit of a drop. So I was like, All right, let's book it now,

Jennifer Sluder 4:04
And we made it home safely.

Kevin Sluder 4:05
Yeah, we did. But yeah,

Dave Bullis 4:08
That's smart. That's very smart. Yeah, yeah. Seriously, so you gotta be some of these crowds, man. People get so excited. So I Joe, just to get started, you know, I know you both went to the University of North Carolina, North Carolina Chapel Hill, and I just wanted to ask, did, did you guys actually meet while you were both attending the school?

Kevin Sluder 4:31
Yeah, yeah. We met sophomore year, and then we started dating. Junior year finally wore down and she said, Yes, and we went out and yeah, the rest is history. Got married five years after that, and we've been together since then, 20 years of marriage and 25 years of everything else.

Dave Bullis 4:51
Well, the reason I ask is I saw that you both went to the same college, and I figured, well, either they met on set or they met at college. I. Uh, you know, so, so I figured I had a 50-50, shot, yeah,

Jennifer Sluder 5:04
Yeah, makes sense.

Dave Bullis 5:06
So we know, what were some of the things that you actually took away from? I know, you know, going to film school, or going to college in general, something I talk about a lot on this podcast. But you know, while we're on the topic, you know, what were some of the things that you both took away from? It your time in college,

Kevin Sluder 5:21
On the film school side it was interesting because North Carolina didn't have a straight on film degree, kind of like, like USC and schools like that. But I took away a lot of film theory. There weren't a lot of practical applications. They were like editing classes, and I took a directing class, took an acting class, took few screenwriting classes. But it wasn't kind of a hands on make a film, kind of film school that you have at AFI and USC and UCLA out here. I took away like a knowledge about, you know, why films are made, and what they're trying to say, and I think that's kind of stood up over time, as well as the writing experience. But it was a cool experience. It was actually a radio, television, motion pictures degree. So I got a wide range of education,

Jennifer Sluder 6:08
Yeah, and my education there actually wasn't in film. A lot of people who know me in my filmmaking capacity are not aware that actually my day job is pediatrician. So I went to college and medical school at UNC, and met Kevin and undergrad. But I did have a love of film at that time. We both took movie criticism classes together, and there's a funny story, because our first movie date that we took at the Kevin took me to,

Kevin Sluder 6:35
This might be one of those things that we should stay away from, that

Jennifer Sluder 6:41
The first one he took me to at a movie criticism class that we both shared was Clockwork Orange.

Kevin Sluder 6:46
Good job. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it was, it was like a classic, well known film. And I thought, you know, she loves film. I love film. It was Kubrick. You got to see it. It was a Kubrick Scorsese, which was a really cool film theory class when you get to watch Kubrick and Scorsese for a month. But, yeah, that was, that was one I went to and took her eight night. Yeah, good job. Actually, afternoon date. My ta gave me a ton. I mean, yeah, I walked in and the TA was like, oh, so everybody enjoy the film. And Kevin, did your date enjoy the film? I was like, Oh man, it lasted. It lasted.

Dave Bullis 7:27
I was waiting for you to turn to Jennifer and keep going. Well, that was something, all right,

Jennifer Sluder 7:35
Yeah, that kind of happened, but we're over it now.

Dave Bullis 7:39
So Jennifer, were you saying to him, like, so what was going on in that film? Like, why would you take me to see that

Jennifer Sluder 7:46
Clearly, clearly, it's such a romantic story.

Kevin Sluder 7:49
Yeah, yeah, hopefully we've gone to some some more couple friendly films over our 25 years. Yeah, I try to start on a low point, like, and just work my way up from there.

Jennifer Sluder 8:03
I guess it was fate, though, because here we are in Los Angeles, producing varkum. So that kind of kind of makes sense, actually now I think about it, yeah.

Dave Bullis 8:11
And after that, you're like, well, there's, oh, we can go up from here, right? So it's kind of like this ultraviolet film. And you know, it reminds me this whole funny story I had a friend of mine, and he was going on a date with with this girl that he had known for a while, and he didn't know what to he wanted to take her to the movies, and he didn't know what to take her to see. So he, you know, he's looking at what's playing. And the movie Bruno was playing, you know, Bruno?

Kevin Sluder 8:37
Oh yeah. Oh no, yeah, that movie,

Dave Bullis 8:40
And he didn't quite know what it was, so he takes this girl in there and to see it. And right around when they had, like, the the whole where he was showing the people, like his show, man, they had a test audience in that in the film, and they were like, This is awful. What is this crap? Well, the girl was, you know, more on the religious side. And she goes, I can't watch any more of this and the whole get and so he takes her out, out of the theater, right? And he forgot where he parked his car. So he's trying to walk around Philadelphia trying to figure out where he parked his car.

Kevin Sluder 9:14
Oh my god. What about done?

Dave Bullis 9:18
It was just hilarious, because now she's upset already, and now he can't find the car. And he's like, I think I parked it down here, or was it? Oh, am I forgetting? Finally, like, about an hour later, they found the car, and he goes, she never called me again.

Jennifer Sluder 9:34
Oh, my goodness, a long ride home.

Kevin Sluder 9:37
I feel better now, thanks to the steward Dave.

Dave Bullis 9:40
No problem, no problem at all. Kevin, usually my stories help build people up.

Kevin Sluder 9:45
I am feeling much better about myself.

Dave Bullis 9:49
So after you both, you know, graduate from college, you know, when, when is it that you both decide, you know, to take the trip out to Los Angeles.

Kevin Sluder 10:08
It was after her residency in Michigan. She worked in Kalamazoo, Michigan through Michigan State. And we were, we were kind of, we had left North Carolina to go there. And it was, I don't know, I guess that was step one.

Jennifer Sluder 10:23
And, yeah, yeah. Basically he, he went to Michigan with me for we knew no one, and to for me to pursue my dream of Pediatrics. And then when I was on with that, I was like, well, there are kids you can take care of worldwide. Where are we going for you next? And he's like, Los Angeles. I'm like, well, let's do it. So that's kind of how that happened,

Kevin Sluder 10:43
Yeah, so then we hopped in a truck and head out to Beverly.

Dave Bullis 10:47
So you actually drove the whole way there. So what was that like? Because I've had a couple other people I know who have just taken that that trek, and they've driven across the country, you know. So what was that like for the both of you?

Kevin Sluder 11:02
It was cool because we met with family and stuff.

Jennifer Sluder 11:05
Yeah, we met with family in Colorado.

Kevin Sluder 11:08
Yeah, hung out in Denver. Then our brother was living in Vegas at the time. So it was, it was kind of cool because it was going to take the truck, like, four days to get there something. So we had a little time, and we took my car, and, yeah, we, I mean, we rode through the Rockies. And, I mean, I grew up in, you know, North Carolina, with mountains around, but not like the Rockies. So that was amazing. So it was a beautiful drive. It was beautiful drive. And it was cool. And, you know, a little bit of excitement, you know, going out to a new state.

Jennifer Sluder 11:37
Yeah, I was back in the day when you had CD. So he was popping a CD and hit the road. And that was, it was fun. It was a lot of fun.

Dave Bullis 11:44
So that was, that's actually pretty cool. So how long did it take you, like, total, to get out there? Did you actually, like, so, so it sounds like you spaced it out for a while rather than do like, you know, like, a marathon just drive to get there.

Kevin Sluder 11:55
Yeah, we weren't the kind of people that were, like, we got to get a certain number of miles done in a day. We it was, you know, you just riding along, listening to music, and I guess what? 3,3, 4, or five days. We spent a day, maybe day and a half in Denver, and then then day, day and a half in Vegas. And, yeah, but yeah, no, yeah. Might have been a week. I have no idea it was. It was a while back, but we did take our time, and we got to see see parts of the country I'd never seen before. So that was kind of cool.

Dave Bullis 12:23
Yep, that's awesome. So so when you finally get out to LA, did you already have a place to stay, or did you sort of get out there and and have, like somebody to stay with at that point?

Kevin Sluder 12:34
We actually went to Huntington Beach. That's where Jen got her first job. So I do remember having never been to California when we first got there, and we lived only, like, a mile or so from the beach. So we hopped in the car. We didn't have anything in the apartment because the truck wasn't there yet. So as I well, you know nothing here, let's go see the town. And like, Oh, my God, let's go to the beach. And this is in July, yeah. And so we're like, oh, it's, you know, it's all sunny during the day or whatever. And we went down to the beach, and it was probably, like, 58 that we froze our can, I say, asses off. It's always like, All right, cool, cool. We saw the beach. Let's get back in the car. Let's go right.

Jennifer Sluder 13:18
We just moved from sun, from snowy Michigan, and you're like, Oh my gosh. What did we do? But it just gets cold here at night. That's all well, relatively speaking,

Kevin Sluder 13:30
Yeah, it's like, cold, Pacific water, cold.

Dave Bullis 13:32
Yeah, yeah. You leave the nice warm weather, and you're like, Oh my God. What mistake have we made?

Kevin Sluder 13:40
I was used to that East Coast beach water that's, you know, like 90 degrees and being at the North Carolina, South Carolina beaches, so I thought it's gonna be like that. And, oh no, it was not.

Dave Bullis 13:50
It's a two difference between two coasts, right? So when you get out there, and, you know, I know Jennifer, you actually had, you know, one of your first jobs out there. So, Kevin, well, you know, while your wife is, you know, working a full time job, did you start to go into movies, full time and sort of, you know, so you use that as, like a leaping off point.

Kevin Sluder 14:12
It was half on half off. It was temping and riding. But I did, I did quite a bit of writing. We actually, the big decision was made to come out here, because I had a, I had a sci fi spec script, and I thought it was the next greatest thing, and, and here's my ticket and all that sort of stuff. And I think I had that the move to LA with your script, and you'll make it in a couple years, kind of, kind of mindset, not realizing that it takes a bit longer to do that. But yeah, it was, it was, uh, yeah, kind of, kind of half on, half off, and then gradually, over time, it became full time deal for me.

Dave Bullis 14:48
So when you actually came out, you had already written a feature length script, the Sci Fi script you were just talking about. So what you know, did you use, did were you able to use that as like a calling card to get your foot in the door to. It to a couple different places.

Kevin Sluder 15:01
Actually, let me, let me think of which one was it actually, yeah, that one was the one. Now that I think about it, it never, it never moved into production. But it actually did well in Nichols, I think in like, 2006 or 2005 something like that. And, but it never, never picked up, and I'm actually rewriting it now, but so it wasn't necessarily a calling card, but I moved on to other projects from there and kept on writing, writing, writing, writing, and yeah, and different things kind of got picked up at different times and got got interest.

Dave Bullis 15:40
So did you ever were able to sort of use that? And they would say, Hey, Kevin, you know, we like the way you write, you know, could you write something else, you know, maybe for us, something like that.

Kevin Sluder 15:47
It was, it was more the line you get. It was like, wow, I really like the the writing in this, but, you know, it wasn't for us. But you know, would it be okay if we contacted you down the line? And I'm like, Yeah, sure. That'd be great. And then they didn't contact me so, but you know, there's, there's always stories like that with with scripts and writing and yeah, so it's just part of the base, yeah,

Dave Bullis 16:13
Yeah, it definitely is. I thought you were going to tell me, Kev, that they asked you, so what else do you got? And you were like, well, I because I had a friend of mine who had him that happened to him where he got his foot in the door, he had a script, and they actually asked him, What else do you have, or what else you got? And he had nothing else to show him.

Kevin Sluder 16:30
It's like, hey, what's I mean, I did this one. Come on, fun. Yeah, it's generally a plan, when, when, when you're going out with a spec scripts or whatever. You have to answer that question before you go out. That's continually a thing. The one I was saying that I came out here with, and I said, I'm rewriting that one now, you know, that's basically coupled with another sci fi that that actually optioned this week, when I'm pretty happy about that. So that would be the kind of companion there, like, all right, this is cool. What else you got? Well, here you go. So, but it takes time to get you know that enough scripts that you have that option,

Dave Bullis 17:07
Yeah, and also just to put that portfolio together for any writer you know, just to put together, like, even three, you know, solid pieces of work is a challenge in of itself, because you're always wondering you know how to because, I mean, you know whenever, and I'm sure you had this too, because I've it happened to me as well. You know, when you go to start writing screenplays or TV pilots or whatever, you know, you say to yourself, when you're first starting, you're like, Ah, look, I've seen 10,000 TV shows. I've seen 10,000 movies. I know how to write a screenplay. And you kind of start putting this together, and you're like, This is a lot different than I thought it was gonna be. It's a lot different, you know, from, from reverse engineering it, oh, I've seen every episode of, you know, mash, and I'm gonna make a, you know what? I mean, I'm gonna just kind of reverse engineer it, and then actually doing it, you know, from the ground up. So, you know. But so did you ever have what I'm trying to tie in this all together? And did you ever have like, a writing group or anything like that to sort of, you use as, like, a feedback meter, or maybe, or maybe you just give the scripts to like Jennifer. And she was like, Kevin, you, what are you doing here? What is this?

Kevin Sluder 18:08
Why did we come out here? This is horrible. No, actually, I haven't really been a member of a riding group. I did get involved with this online service that actually has a really great screenwriting competition, a script pipeline. And there was a guy there, Dave Klein, he he had a lot to do with with me being too able to elevate ideas and do better, larger budget scripts, and he worked with me on a sci fi script, and he actually worked with me on the one that optioned, and just the tips that he gave me about how to make ideas better and how to make scripts better were really good. So he would kind of be the writing group on the independent front, like the independent horror stuff that I've been doing, and I do have a feature that I'm finishing up with that, you know, I've had people read it. I've had, you know, luckily, I know quite a few talented actors, and they came in and did a script, read and illustrated what needed to what needed to change, what was good, and I rewrote based off of that, but not technically a writing group, but Jen does read my stuff, and she does give notes, but, but, uh, not, not as much as before.

Jennifer Sluder 19:19
Yeah, I'm not sure how helpful it is, because basically, I just put smiley face together. Smiley face.

Kevin Sluder 19:24
That's what I know I really nailed to seeing Dave. It's not get a smiley face. I'm like, yes, yes.

Dave Bullis 19:29
So Jen's not like, busting out like a red pen and being like, crossing out, like,

Kevin Sluder 19:34
Nah, no. It used to be like that. But it's just, it just create attention in the marriage. There's no real need for that. So, yeah, Why don't you love me? Why don't you love my script?

Jennifer Sluder 19:47
I just look for typos and put the stuff I like nowadays. It's pretty nice.

Kevin Sluder 19:51
Yeah, and then smiley faces. It does make you feel good when you get a smiley face at the end.

Dave Bullis 20:06
Yeah, that does sound a lot better than my red pen, my red pen idea, because I used to be that guy who, whenever you would hand me a script to read, I would always bust out the red pen and I would make notes like I wasn't. And then somebody was like, you know how obnoxious you're being by doing this. And I said, I said, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I said, it's just to me, it's easier to read on a, you know, it's a, it's one white piece of paper with black font. And I said, it's just easier to read, you know,

Kevin Sluder 20:31
Yeah, but it hurts our feelings. Man, you got we're sensitive writers. Man, we can't take too much. Yeah.

Dave Bullis 20:39
I mean, like, when I used to hand in my stuff, I, you know, I would get all sorts of feedback. And there was one guy who just hated every single thing that I would write. And he, yeah, he would just be, like, he would write stuff to me, like, I don't know what's going on here, you know, he's like, I, you know, or like, he didn't really say some people, and that was him being nice to me. Because some people, he would write things like, I'm bored. And one and one person he wrote on the front of the paper, or, I mean, front of the script, no, and that was it,

Kevin Sluder 21:10
Oh, man. Oh, that's rough. Yeah. I was like, no, go into another line of work. Isn't for you. Yeah?

Dave Bullis 21:18
I was like, man. I thought I thought I was getting a band. I was like, guy, but he was thinking he, he was, he must have either liked me, or at least I like the stuff at some point, because I didn't get that bad, right? So at this point, Kevin, you moved on. He started working with Jose Rivera, and he started working for him, right? And he started because, by the way, I have your bio open, I don't know, just so, you know,

Kevin Sluder 21:45
Jose, yeah, he's a, he's one of the best writers in America. You know, it was a, I was a director of development with the company, so it was kind of trying to get packaging together with one of the scripts that he had written and working on, basically, my job was to make the project look good to potential investors, and then, you know, just kind of having a couple conversations with him, but, yeah, it was, it was job where, you know, we developed projects from those riders, and Donald Harrington was on there too, and that was Just, you know, my job was to make their projects look enticing to investors.

Dave Bullis 22:25
And so, like, you would, like, you know, maybe you would get the book and sort of like, read it over a weekend, and maybe make notes and say, Hey, this would be a good property. And then maybe put together a pitch packet, stuff like that, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Sluder 22:36
With, with the Harrington book, yeah, I read it, and I was like, Hey, I think we should do this. The producer was like, yeah, yeah, I think we should. And then she, she handled the, the optioning of the material and all that. And then, you know, it was, it was my job to find writers for it. So went out to different agencies, got, got recommendations, and, you know, it was just, it was one of those things where just things didn't come in line. And that book Never got, never got off the ground. But you know, it was a, it was a pretty awesome piece of material. So you never know. I left that company, and they may still have it on their have it on their slate, not really sure. But I mean, it would be a pretty, pretty cool, pretty cool movie,

Dave Bullis 23:20
Yeah, because, you know, that's, that's the big thing. Now, right? Everything is pretty much an existing property, and most of the movies you see in theaters now, you know, they're based off a graphic novel, they're based off an existing property, like all these superhero movies, or in this case, are based off of a book, which you see a lot of more movies coming out, you know, where they're already based on something. So you figure something like this would be, you know, like perfect, a perfect project, so to speak. You know what I mean? Like, then, you know, for to make a movie out of it?

Kevin Sluder 23:48
Yeah, actually, not just with superhero movies. We watched the movie, which is really great. It's a horror film called The ritual, and that was based off of a book I would have. I don't know, I thought that was like an original spec idea. But no, that was, that was based off of a book. So, yeah, it's, it's when you have IP, it just, it really helps out with, with the marketing of the film, because you have a built in audience, and the bigger the built in audience, the bigger the film. So, I mean, I get it from that perspective, yeah, yeah.

Dave Bullis 24:16
It's kind of like the the Hunger Games, you know, when What's that, that that series or, and obviously the Harry Potter series. I mean, that series was a goldmine, even before they made it into movies.

Kevin Sluder 24:27
Yeah, I remember when I was in that DOD job. I remember when Twilight got set up and, and I remember talking to my boss, and I was like, oh my god, we need to get a YA property. People are going to be lined up around the block to see this film and and then it just, yeah. It took off even bigger than than I thought it was going to be. But that was kind of, I think this was 2007 or so that I had this job, 2008 around, in that range, and yeah, and it's just kind of grown from there having books being the kind. On a the source for your larger budget movies, and your and your, like, three, four different movies in a series and all that.

Dave Bullis 25:08
Yeah, and because that's something, you know, that's just some of the things I've noticed more and more is that a lot of these things are based off of books, even, like, you know, I was going through all the Best Picture nominees for this year's Academy Awards, and I'm like, you know, which ones are actually based upon, you know, IPS, and which ones are original ideas. And then you got to take it and say, Well, what movies have actually done? Well, in the box office, you know, versus, versus, you know, what they've done. So, you know, the more the IP that you have to back you up. I mean, you know, right now, as we're recording this Black Panther is number one, Black Panthers, you know, intellectual property. And then, and then Jumanji was a remake, and then that was number one. I mean, we can go on and on, but it's like, that seems to be like the thing, you know,

Kevin Sluder 25:47
Yah, pretty much you can get a lot of advertising dollars behind behind an IP as well, because of that built in audience. And I think that that boosts up your sales as well. It's tougher for a spec script, even if it's even if it's something that would have a larger budget, just because you don't have that brand name knowledge. So, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tip scale, so to speak, in in, in favor of the the books.

Dave Bullis 26:15
So, you know, as we sort of, you know, continue on with your with your journey, going through, going through. La, you know, at this point you started writing screening full time, and I started doing screening full time, and you were in the cold fellowship finalist. You were on the script pipeline, and then I also saw you were on the 2014 young and hungry list. So when you were on these lists, Kevin, like, at what point? I mean, was there at some point, like, were you getting agents and managers that were coming after you saying, like, Hey, Kevin, you know, you know, are you represented, you know, were they trying to set things up for you in a way, like, meaning that, if you come to them, you know, they had a lot more, they had more contacts that could help you get, you know, something funded,

Kevin Sluder 26:59
Yeah, yeah. The the one that landed me on the young and hungry list, interesting story, yeah, all that happened. It was a tracking board. Recommend. Tracking board is a site, an online site that that basically says what's going on in the industry. I was just looking at it today, and it's all like announcements, so everything from jobs in the industry to reviews of films to announcements of attachments in movies. And you know, Michael Fassbender is starring in this, or he just signed on to do this. So it really keeps you up to date on everything that's going on in the town. And they have contests. They have the launch pad competition for screenplays, and they also have the tracking board recommend, and that one, there's not as many awarded, but I got that in 2014 with a script called the memory sphere. And yeah, I had had a manager, and then the manager handled the taking it out to agents and all that. And, you know, unfortunately, I think the interesting thing with that script is the budget on it wasn't big enough to be one of those. Let's go into the studios and get that size of budget. So it's kind of an in between project. It was too big to be an independent feature, and then it was too small to be a big studio feature, so it was kind of in this, this middle range. And so it got passed on by by the people that read it, and then it was kind of just around, and I got the property back and and wasn't with the manager anymore. So then I started marketing my myself, and that's the one that option this week. So there was a producer that came along and he optioned it so, and I think that's because the budget hasn't changed on it. I just think the marketplace has changed, and you have places like Netflix and Amazon Studios that would take a movie of this size, or even a movie that's bigger than that, and produces. So I think that opens up a lot of avenues for riders that ride in that budget range. And that's very exciting, because there really was unsure whether that film was going to get made, or if I could get interest back in it. And so, so we'll see where it goes. You know, an options, one thing, a sales, another thing.

Dave Bullis 29:19
So, yeah, yeah, you know. And you know, Netflix, since you brought that up, you know, they've been doing a lot more stuff, you know, their own original programming, which is great. And then just down the line, guys, we're talking about it anyway, Apple's coming out with their own original content. And then, you know what I heard, the next big thing is, Kevin, by the way, in original content, but it's going to be creating content for people while they're driving in their autonomous cars.

Jennifer Sluder 29:48
Oh, my God, whoa, wow. I want to go there. Yes.

Kevin Sluder 29:54
So you like you, you you watch a you watch a TV show on your way to work, you're being driven to work. Is that what that is?

Dave Bullis 30:11
And basically, they would be specifically where you could only watch it inside your car, so that that would be the hook of it. So like, if you made a partnership with, like, let's just say dodge or BMW or something. They're only on their channel. We can watch inside the car at first. That would be the thing. I'm sure they probably expand it where you could probably watch it with whatever. But that would be the thing where their programming would just be for people who have their car.

Kevin Sluder 30:41
Oh, man, I just, I just thought of a sci fi movie, Dude, you just like, everybody's riding along in these cars, like, 10 years from now, and everybody's just staring at a screen, but they're being fed like, all this information, and they're being mind control, yeah? My paranoia got the best of me there. It's a cool that's a cool outlet for for product, yeah?

Dave Bullis 31:00
And that is, that sounds like the episode of Black Mirror.

Kevin Sluder 31:04
I did. I've been watching too much black mirror because I went, I went too dark on that. Yeah, it's like, if I stole your thunder there.

Dave Bullis 31:10
Nah, nah. It's all good, because it's kind of like, you know, everyone has their own news channel now. So what? What actually happened? What's the actual news? What's fact? What's not true?

Kevin Sluder 31:20
Yeah, I would need one that was just, just like, tell me good stuff about me, you know, just there to screen. You're good enough, you're smart enough, you can do it today on the job.

Dave Bullis 31:31
That's it. That sounds like, Kevin, hey. That sounds great. You know, to be like, usually, if you watch too much bad news. I mean, they actually did a report on this if you watched, you know, and this is obvious, if you, if you watch too much bad news, you start to have a bleak outlook on everything. You know what I mean. And then suddenly you're kind of like, well, you know, everything sucks,

Kevin Sluder 31:51
Yeah, yeah. Just, yeah, the Facebook timelines, the state that I just went through there. Sometimes I just like, I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't look at anything else. Yeah, a horrible place.

Dave Bullis 32:04
Yeah, that also was part of it, too. Was just the whole, you know, social media aspect of it, where it's like, I can share something, and it doesn't necessarily need to be true. It could be some, some person with an opinion, and they kind of make it look like a news channel. You know what I mean? Like, you know it, you know is your spouse. Does he have a microchip in his brain? You're like, what?

Kevin Sluder 32:25
Scary stuff, man, yeah,

Dave Bullis 32:28
Yeah, it, yeah. So, you know, just going back to you, Kevin, sorry, we're going, I'm going off on, like, this black mirror episode now, but just going back to you.

Kevin Sluder 32:40
Let's pitch it. Let's, let's make it, make it happen man,

Dave Bullis 32:43
Yeah, seriously, right. So, so in 2015 you actually started sunshine boy productions, which I think is a really good idea, because, again, just going back to original content, I think, you know, the more control you have, the better you know. And I've talked to different guests about this, and you know, there's always a different opinion and different varying viewpoints of this. But, you know, I always put I really like that you started your own company, because I started my own company too, just to, just to make, you know, it gives you a little more leeway on things. But so you started, so at one point, did you know you started your first short film play violet for me, and you actually had a director and everything on board. So, you know, what point did you know you wanted to produce something? And then, you know, and then just, sort of, you know, what was that impetus for you to finally say, All right, this is the year I'm just going to produce something

Kevin Sluder 33:32
Tying in with this story from before. Is like, you know, the young and hungry list and the getting the award, and then having a ton of people pass in Hollywood, I was kind of like, Man, I just want to get something on screen. Just want to get something on screen. And my friend Matt Mercer is a talented director, and we were at a we were at a friend's birthday party. Actually, I remember that's where I pitched play violet for me. And I knew nothing about how to produce a film. I had no clue. I'd just been a writer up to that point. And I was like, you know, I didn't know how much it was going to cost. And I didn't know, you know, I knew who I, you know, I knew what the idea was going to be sort of, but I pitched it. And he was like, Well, yeah, let's put it together. And he told me how much it would cost. I was like, Oh, wow. Because you can really put a movie together, a quality movie together for not a lot of money. And so I was like, well, that's worth the investment. And once we had actually shot the film and got everything together, that's when I was kind of like, oh, wow, I guess I'm a producer. Now, you know, I learned how to deal with sag, I learned how to do the paperwork. I learned how to, you know, get people on board to star in the film, and, and then I was like, Oh, wow, I guess, I guess that's producing. I don't know. So after that, because I had the executive producer title on the thing, I was like, well, let's have a company and, you know, form that with Jen and, and the rest is history.

Dave Bullis 34:58
So, Jen, what? Know, did Kevin pitch this to you and say, you know, I want to start my own company, and you and you were kind of like, what are you thinking? What do you go crazy?

Jennifer Sluder 35:09
Actually, I think it was the opposite. I mean, Kevin correct me if I'm wrong. But I was like, we should start a company. Let's do this.

Kevin Sluder 35:15
Because now the truth comes out. Now the truth comes out. It was actually her idea day. But, man, I thought I could fake it.

Jennifer Sluder 35:23
No what happened was again, I was like, Kevin, I knew nothing about filmmaking, and we were on set for play bible of Hermia all day. Basically, I was just like, in awe. I was just taking pictures and just just watching it all unfold, and just just watching just these incredible, talented human beings say the lines that my husband wrote, I was hooked. I was hooked. I love being on set. I love that experience. And after we, you know, went through the festival run, I was like, Well, I think, I think this is really great, and I really like to do more of it, and I want to see more of your work on screen. And so just kind of came about like that. And I was like, I've done some other startup things, other projects for my other work for pediatrics, and so I had a little bit of knowledge, and how did we get things going? And we just looked into starting our small business and just incorporated actually this month. So yeah, so here we are.

Dave Bullis 36:19
So as sort of you've gone along with this, Jennifer, and you became the director of marketing. You know, what some of the challenges that you've seen thus far with, just, you know, marketing, you know, different short films, different movies, you know, just with the current, current social media climate and everything, with the way it is,

Jennifer Sluder 36:36
Um, I guess the biggest challenge for me was just learning how to do it, because I obviously didn't have any background, any training in it, so, but I really love learning new things. So it started out first with web design. I wanted to see if I could make a website. And there's all these wonderful platforms out there. I went, end up going with Squarespace, because they just have these beautiful templates and wonderful customer service, because I knew I was gonna need a lot of help building the first one, and then I just, it. Just went from there, I thought, Well, okay, we've got this, this presence online. What's another way of inexpensive advertising? And it's, it's through social media, and it's, it's readily available, it's free. So then I learned how to, how to manage Twitter, and then, then just worked on the Facebook pages, and then Instagram came after that. So as far as the current social media climate, I think we're kind of far removed from, you know, a lot of the negativity that's that's out there in the current climate, because we're a short film producing company working our way up to features and our our movies don't really have any specific sort of political message or or anything like that. They're all about entertainment, horror, sci fi, Neo Noir. So unfortunately, I've been very far removed. I was, I was concerned, honestly, when I first started on Twitter about what I might experience. And you know, you see all these negative comments on the television screen, whatever you're watching, you'll see some really, really nasty people out there, but I've been pretty far moved from it. We try and keep our messages positive and not respond to the negative stuff. So I think that helps. So I've been pretty fortunate not to have to experience much of that yet.

Dave Bullis 38:21
So you as part of the climate, what I was, what I was actually, I'm sorry, I should have clarified what I was actually referring to. Was just the because everything is a little crowded out nowadays. I know there is trolls and things can get negative, but, you know, there is so many people out there on Twitter now, different filmmakers, everyone has a podcast, you know. So I was just wondering, you know, some of the, you know, how do you get your message out there? I mean, so what are some of the things that you've learned with, you know, how to sort of cut through all the noise?

Jennifer Sluder 38:50
Oh, okay, sorry about that. Um,

Dave Bullis 38:51
No, no, it's my fault. I actually should have been much, much more specific.

Jennifer Sluder 38:54
No, no, that's good. Um, I guess I just sort of let things happen organically. Um, I ended up connecting with some filmmakers on Twitter and just promoting their stuff on our site. And they ended up just promoting some of our stuff. And then I ended up getting, actually, we met Lillian through Twitter. Lillian sue our unit publicist who connected us with you. So I think I just, we just we just sort of put a positive message out there, and I like to tweet stuff about behind the scenes and the stills and just just the beautiful pictures that the wonderful cinematographers we've worked with have created. So just sort of putting that out there and seeing what comes back. We've just been pretty lucky to connect with some people, yeah. So I actually haven't had a real targeted goal, except for specific instances, like when we go to a particular festival, or we have a trailer put out. So I do have a targeted approach for that, but in general, I'm just trying to connect with other filmmakers, and that's sort of worked for us.

Dave Bullis 40:12
So what have you had the most success with in terms of social media? Have you? Have you, you know, have the most success with YouTube or Instagram or Twitter.

Jennifer Sluder 40:20
We haven't paradeinto YouTube yet. I have not had the time, honestly, to get that together. Unfortunately, with my other full time work, that's one of my goals. I think probably we've had the biggest success on Twitter simply because Holly by Le for me, our first film is a noir, and it's such a small genre that has rabid fans, but they're a small, small number of them, so I think that's where I was able to connect with people the most is tweeting about noir, reaching out about noir, talking to people about noir and noir sites. So we ended up getting several reviews based on that that we would not have before, because that was our very first film for for a brand new company. So I feel like that's where I had some success. And I guess the biggest claim to fame is that Oscar Isaac actually ended up watching play violet for me. And that was through boom. That was through

Kevin Sluder 41:14
That was that, yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Sluder 41:16
Actually, I was actually, it was a direct message back and forth between myself and another screenwriter who was working on a project in Texas, and we were just chatting about violet, and he liked it, and he complimented the writing. And I was like, that's so rare. Like, no, people don't compliment the writing. They compliment everything else about a film, but most people don't mention the writing. And I said, Thanks, that's awesome. And I pass it on to Kevin. He's gonna be really happy to hear happy to hear that. And he's like, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm a screenwriter, too. So he started talking about his projects back and forth, and then he's like, Oh yeah, by the way, you know, I grew up with Oscar Isaac, and, you know, he sent me some pictures of them when they grew up. He was like, yeah, he watched it and thought it was cool. I was like, oh my god, that's amazing. Yeah. So that's, that's Twitter. I think has been the biggest support for our phone so far in our in our company.

Dave Bullis 42:05
Yeah, it just goes to show you the power of social media, or the power of Twitter. I should say, I always, I'm a big fan of Twitter. I actually meet most people through Twitter. I met Lillian through Twitter. So it's very, very, you know, it social media. It's all just a tool. You just have to know how to wield it. Yeah. So, you know. And last year, Kevin, just to go back to the entire sunshine boy productions, you know, you actually were, you actually directed your first film, which was heartless, so, so, and you're hitting the festival circuit now, right?

Kevin Sluder 42:38
Yes, yeah. We just had our world premiere last weekend in Oxford, Mississippi, awesome festival. It went great and yeah, couldn't be happier. It's rolling along.

Dave Bullis 42:48
So you know, what will you know? What finally decided? What finally made you decide to sort of go behind the camera and direct your first film?

Kevin Sluder 42:57
I had written a horror feature. And a couple of my friends were like, Hey, you should direct this. And at first I was like, Are you crazy? That's, that's, that's crazy. And then the more I thought about it, I was like, Well, okay, maybe so then I talked to a couple director friends of mine, and they, of course, recommended that I do a short, just to, you know, to see and can, like, build my way up. And then I was, I was just kind of like, All right, well, let's, let's see what we can do. I had the idea for the short I was on another friend's set, and had the idea for the Poe adaptation that I turned into heartless. And, yeah, I just, I guess, as far as, like, just getting getting my feet wet or whatever, I had to, you know, talk to some people and get some suggestions, and then, then I just dove into it, and I'd written the script and people, I guess the biggest thing was, nobody told me, No. Nobody was like, Are you crazy, dude? What's what's going on? It's like, there's no way you can't, you can do this. Everybody was so supportive. And they were like, yeah. And everybody I talked to hopped on board, and you know that that really helped out.

Dave Bullis 44:15
It's kind of like, your network is your net worth,

Kevin Sluder 44:18
Yeah, yeah, really. And I've been very fortunate in having the group around me in Los Angeles, all these just just incredible independent filmmakers. And, yeah, I had help everywhere. So that was, that was very good, especially when you're when you're doing your first, your first directorial effort, it's, it's daunting, but, you know, it can be done. And also have a wonderful wife that, like, calmed me down when I was freaking out, like, you know, a week before we went into shooting. But, you know, it was, it was a really, really great experience.

Dave Bullis 44:55
So what was the biggest obstacle then? Because, you know, this was your first directorial movie, you know. So what was like the biggest obstacle that you faced?

Kevin Sluder 44:59
Well, it's. It's an adaptation of The TellTale Heart by by Poe and I, and I didn't want to way I looked at I was like, if you want to do po Go big or go home. So I put quite a bit of blood and gore into it. And this required, you know, shooting, shooting in a way, and we shot for three days, but shooting in a way that you could do seven effect blood effect sequences in that amount of time. And that was a challenge, just logistically. But I had really great blood experts on on set, and they took care of that. I think the biggest thing was just scheduling and getting 11 pages shot with with these kind of intricate sequences in there. But once again, you said, you know, I had, I had people around me that, you know, my DP had directed films, my gaffer directed films, my grip had directed films. Is like at any given time, I had four or five directors on set. So I had a great network of people that I could talk to and help me through that. So I would say, you know, outside of the blood effects, the biggest challenge was, like, scheduling in a day and making sure that you get the shots and but that that worked out

Dave Bullis 46:07
So, like, you didn't have any actors, no show or anything like that.

Kevin Sluder 46:11
No, not it's cool. It's like you're talking about social media. Is like, I cast the thing entirely through Facebook, and there were people that I knew, Stacey is a good friend, and Wade worked with her on a short that we produced before this, called feeding time, and she was like, she was the one that I wanted for that role, reached out to her, got her Joanna. I had met, you know, several years years earlier, but it never, never really talked to but that was a Facebook message I sent to her and sent her the script, and she signed on. Like, I think the entire casting for the film probably took about 45 minutes. It was just just a series of Facebook messages and people that I had met, and then they read the they read the script, 45 minutes, as far as, like, my part, but yeah, it's so this is kind of like when you have a network and you have people which you can go to, it's really helpful. And then Matt, Matt's in it, and that's like, you know, one of my best friends was like, Hey, dude, want to do it? Yeah, cool. He signed on. So, yeah, no cast problems, no, no deals, no, nothing like that. There. They were awesome to work with, which is really cool as a first time director to not have, you know, any of that kind of conflict. But no, they were awesome, and they were great with working with me and having patience with me, and, yeah, and then it worked out,

Dave Bullis 47:29
Yeah, you definitely dodged a bullet there. Because, I mean, we've all heard horror stories. I mean, how it's happened to me, where I've had a film, and, you know, you cast actors and they, they go, Oh, that was today. I'm like, Man, you don't the amount of emails and texts I've been sending you. Man, come on.

Jennifer Sluder 47:45
Yeah, that's bad.

Kevin Sluder 47:46
Oh, wow, yeah. No, no, I feel very fortunate. I will thank all those women when I when I see them next,

Dave Bullis 47:53
Yeah, you'd be like, Hey, I was talking to this guy, Dave, and he was telling me horror stories, and they're gonna make who's Dave? Who the hell?

Kevin Sluder 47:59
Yeah, yeah, I just go up and hug them, thank you for not doing that. They were, they were awesome. They were, it was fun. It was good. They were all energetic about it, and they really, really did a great job. They we just got a review this week, and it was talking about the acting in the film. So they were, they were tremendous,

Dave Bullis 48:20
See, and that's good, man, because, you know, they always say good or bad direct. Good or bad acting is always a result of good or bad directing.

Kevin Sluder 48:28
Well, cool, yes, I think it would go the opposite way to you know that it really is. It does reflect very well on you when you when you get the talent in there, and they do their job and just kill it, and then all of a sudden, Wow, you're a good director. Like, well, had great talent, yeah?

Dave Bullis 48:50
And then that's the key to directing, right? Is good script, good script, good actors, and then good cinematographer, and then you look like a genius,

Kevin Sluder 49:00
Yeah, yeah. I came from a retail management background, and when I was talking to Jen about how I wanted to put the thing together, you know, it always harken back to that. And, you know, it was amazing how much better a manager I was when, when the staff was better. It's like when I wasn't having staffing problems, when, you know, it's just, it's just an interesting thing when you surround yourself with with really, really great workers and great people, then all of a sudden you're so much better at your job.

Dave Bullis 49:28
Yeah, it's so short, it allows you to focus, so you're not constantly, like, on the phone going, Hey, where are you? Or we know what's going, you know. Now I got to go to plan z now, because I've already gone through plans, you know, a through y. So it's kind of like, you know what? I mean, it's just you're kind of, now you can actually focus and again, you look like a good manager.

Kevin Sluder 49:54
Yeah, yeah. It's, I mean, I've said. It on, like the speech to the to the cast and crew on the last day of filming or whatever. But I mean, it's it. They just all from, from, you know, actors to you know, AC to ad to, you know, every single job on that film for us to get it done in the time that we got it done, with all the different things that we need to do with the everything. If one person hadn't pulled their weight, then, you know, we have to go back. But shoot pickups with to do that is like, it's really a credit to just how great that cast and crew were that, you know, I didn't have to do four or five takes on scenes. I didn't have to, you know, adjust, because the camera person wasn't, you know, wasn't doing their job. It's like, that wasn't the that wasn't the worry, which really, I mean, that made it, that made it a much more enjoyable, enjoyable experience, and a much more it just made it go better. And it's a credit to them. They were an incredible cast and crew,

Dave Bullis 51:03
Yeah, and to see that, that's awesome, you know, I'm glad you could take that experience and, you know, and keep, you know, parlaying that. And I know you mentioned you were, you're eventually going to make a feature so and so I know Kevin, I Jen, Jennifer, I know we've been talking for 45 minutes now. You know, is there anything you want to say to sort of put a period at the end of put a period at the end of this whole conversation, or maybe just say something or anything you want to discuss that we haven't had a chance to yet.

Jennifer Sluder 51:28
Yeah, I guess we could just talk about where to find us. So we have websites, as we've already discussed, sunshineboyproductions.com have all of our short films on there. And heartlessmovie.com is the new one coming out. It just, just had its world premiere at Oxford. And we're on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. We love to connect with people, so be really happy to do that.

Kevin Sluder 51:53
And we're setting off on the festival trail. We have three more festivals coming up. We have we're going to be at Nevermore in Durham this weekend or next weekend, this weekend? Oh yeah, yeah. Well, next weekend now, next weekend. Yeah. And then after that, we have our our West Coast premiere at the no host cine fest, which is an amazing festival. It's got a great horror lineup in that block. And then after that, we're going to Chattanooga. And I haven't ever been there, so that's, I'm just super excited about that one.

Dave Bullis 52:25
So when you, when you're at these film festivals, do you actually fly out, or you drive out?

Kevin Sluder 52:31
Fly, Well, I mean, the ones here drive to but, yeah, we fly out.

Dave Bullis 52:36
Okay. I was just wondering, honestly, because I imagined, you know, driving across the country a couple times, you're like, all right, it's cool. But now, now, like we're getting into double digit digits now, and it's kind of like, you know, you know, drive. I had a friend of mine who actually drove. The reason I always asked I asked that question is, I had a friend of mine who actually drove from here in Pennsylvania out to Nevada and and, and he was and, but he he went on, like, this whole tour of different doing different things. And he was driving, I think it was, I want to say it was Iowa or Wyoming, and he said it all started to hit him as he was driving out there. And he goes, it was just like a flat area. It was all, you know, completely flat. And he's, like, I just saw the same things. Like, you know, it was kind of like a prairie and then a farm, and then a little bit, then it was like, you know, just open grassland, like a prairie. So it was like, Prairie farm, Prairie farm. And he goes, it starts to mess with your mind. And, you know,

Kevin Sluder 53:36
We've done that job. Actually. I know the part of the country he's talking to us on the way out from Michigan. We drove through that.

Jennifer Sluder 53:42
I think doing that for for weeks and weeks would be really I don't think our marriage would last that

Kevin Sluder 53:50
You did mention it was that we with the with feeding time, the short film before heartless. I did actually go on a road trip with with Matt, and we drove from here to Provo Utah. Now that was pretty cool, but that's not like, all the way across the country. That was a 10 hour drive, and it was awesome. That was fun. Listen to music, chat with your friend, that that was great.

Dave Bullis 54:10
Oh, that's all, yeah, see, that's awesome. It's awesome when you can't, when you can go with a friend, because even I take a trip out to Pittsburgh, it's like four hours. And it really helps if you know, if everyone's into the trip, you know what? I mean, everyone's you know, you know. And it just, you know, it makes it go a little easier when, when? The last time I went, it was snowing as we were getting into Pittsburgh, and we were more concentrating on not dying, because I was like, I think you're going a little fast. And he's like, they'll tell me how to drive. I'm like, All right, so, yeah, you know, it's just, you know, it's this crazy journey, right? So everyone I will link to everything that Kevin Jennifer and I talked about. Kevin and Jennifer, I want to say thank you so much for coming on.

Kevin Sluder 54:50
Hey, thanks for having us man, this was a blast.