IFH 847: The Indie Filmmaker’s Survival Guide (No Hollywood Required) with Ethan Marten

Alex Ferrari 0:00
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 0:00
We have an actor, producer, director. We talk growing up as the son of an entertainment attorney for people such as Desi Arnaz, Mickey Rooney and MO The Three Stooges. We talk about that a little bit. We talk about old TV a lot. So if you know who the Bowery boys are, maybe who the Marx Brothers are, we touch upon that. But we also talk about a lot about his career. And we also talk about his new film, eyes of the Roshi, which actually stars Eric Roberts. And he actually made it in his own hometown, far, far away from Hollywood, and we're going to talk about how he did that, and also about upcoming projects like white buffalo movie with guest, Ethan Marten. Hey Ethan, thanks a lot for coming on the show.

Ethan Marten 0:46
Dave, thank you for having me. Hey everybody.

Dave Bullis 1:10
My pleasure having you on, Ethan. And you know, something that we were talking about in the pre show interview is, you know your whole your career, and obviously your career, you know you're out of Virginia Beach, Virginia, yeah. And again, you're the first person I've ever interviewed from Virginia. Completely I believe, unless I'm completely mistaken, which is possible, but, but you're

Ethan Marten 1:55
Not gonna ask me like some world war two question, like, who's the most famous baseball player to come out of Virginia are you?

Dave Bullis 1:55
Oh, that's a good question. That was actually, I wasn't going to ask that, but now I think I should,

Ethan Marten 1:55
Well, I would say Yogi Berra is probably one of the most famous guys to have come through here when the Mets had their farm system here, and even before that, when the Yankees played a lot of games back here. Yogi Berra came through. So there you have it. So I am an American now you know that for sure. Okay, glad we got that out of the way.

Dave Bullis 1:55
You passed the test. Yes. Well, so either I'll ask you then, a non World War Two baseball question. Thank you. I'll ask you a question just about, you know, your whole career. And I wanted to ask, you know what brought you,

Ethan Marten 0:46
Am I about to get a Lifetime Achievement Award? Am I already done? Is this it?

Dave Bullis 1:33
Yeah, this is the easy way to sort of break the ice. This is the sort of, this is the road to the Lifetime Achievement Award. But, yeah, but basically, I'm gonna break the ice. That's all over.

Ethan Marten 3:57
Okay, there we go. It's a pleasure to receive my lifetime achievement award from you. Dave, thank you. It's an honor. It's an honor.

Dave Bullis 4:06
It's my pleasure, my friend, I you know I got, I, I was given this task of giving you this award. And, yeah, task.

Ethan Marten 4:16
Man, rug out from under me. Wow, that hurt. It's all right. I forgive you, man. I love you. It's all good. I'd like to thank my mother, my father, all the little people, those are the bunch skins. They're right over here. Anyway, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Stream of consciousness Dave.

Dave Bullis 4:35
All right, here we go. So yes, so when you were growing up, did you always have this love affair of movies, or did you just sort of find yourself in this one day, almost by a form of accident, if you will,

Ethan Marten 4:47
Little of both. My dad was very well known. He was one of the foremost theatrical entertainment lawyers going he. Produced more than 150 motion pictures, Broadway plays, and so we just kind of me, my three older brothers grew up with this atmosphere, even though he tried to protect us from it all. And his clients ranged everywhere, from Desi Arnaz to Fernando Lamas to Errol Flynn. He once tore up a $50,000 check for his hero, oh my goodness, Judy Garland's counterpart, Mickey Rooney. He loved Mickey Rooney growing up, and he wanted to give Mickey some work. I think this was somewhere in the 60s, and he flew out to Hollywood to give Mickey a check and a job. I think it was like $50,000 huge money back then, and he was sitting with Mickey's agent, and an hour ticked by no Mickey, and, you know, pops looking at the agent, going, Where's Mickey? Stuck in traffic. He's stuck in track. Two hours goes by. Three hours. My dad looks up, says, Come on, what's going on? He goes, sit the track. My dad tears up the check, hands it to the agent, says, you know, tell Mickey to straighten out. It broke my dad's heart, because he was he loved Mickey Rooney growing up, years later, when we built the movie studio in Suffolk, Virginia, Mickey Rooney was touring with Sugar Babies, and the article broke while he was in town about The Movie Studio, Atlantic film studios that we'd built here, Mickey picks up the phone, ends up getting my brother Jonathan on the phone and says, You tell your old man he saved my life because he straightened up after that check got torn up because he said, nobody ever said no to him. And that's when he set the bottle aside and got his life back in order. So when mo Howard of the Three Stooges called the house looking for our old man, that's when we knew he was big time. And so I grew up in that.

Dave Bullis 7:16
Wow, that is an amazing story, by the way. Both actually, you know Mickey Rooney, you know, I've, you know, obviously I knew him growing up again, a huge movie buff, but even just to have him call and just say something like that about your father, I mean, that's amazing, yeah, being able to straighten him out like that.

Ethan Marten 7:34
You know, tough love, I guess, tough love. And, I mean, my dad literally was broken hearted. Walking away from that, I think he ended up casting Maurice Chevalier. It was for a film called panic button. And I was actually, I was in my mom's tummy at the time. He was on the set somewhere in Italy where they were shooting. My mom was going to one of the famous star, female stars, who was also the druggist on the set, and she thought she had the flu, and she went up my mom did, and she nearly passed out in front of the actress's hotel room. And she said, I think I've got the flu. And she said, Jackie, you don't have the flu. You're proud. So my my first taste of Hollywood came while I was still in mom's tummy. I was on Italian soil. I was preparing for my first motion picture in mom's belly.

Dave Bullis 8:42
So again, you were just born into this. And

Ethan Marten 8:44
I was, I was born into it. And the funny thing was, pop wanted to protect all of us from the motion picture business, which he thought was, you know, a little rough and tumble. And he was offered, he was offered the position to head one of the studios out in Hollywood, and he turned it down because he was a New York guy, you know, he was born in Hell's Kitchen, and he pulled himself up by his own bootstraps. He did not want the kids growing up in LA he thought that the palm trees and the smell of eucalyptus would somehow, you know, make us less than New Yorkers? He wanted us to have New York in our blood.

Dave Bullis 9:28
Yeah, and do you feel you have New York in your blood right now?

Ethan Marten 9:31
Absolutely, absolutely. I love Virginia. Virginia is a beautiful place. I raised my daughter here, and I'll always be a New Yorker. It's just a different energy.

Dave Bullis 9:44
Oh, yeah, completely different energy. You know, even when I'm from Philly and even when I go up to New York, you can feel that, you can feel the different energy between the two cities.

Ethan Marten 10:04
Yeah, I was in college in California for two years, and they used to say to me, slow down. What are you on speed? I mean, you're just manic. You're crazy. And when I went back home to New York after being out in California for two years, all my friends said, What the heck is the matter with you. You want Quaaludes or something? Come on, pick it up. So 30 years in Virginia, now I'm, you know, I've learned to kind of settle down and just go at a nice, medium pace. It's nice.

Dave Bullis 10:34
Yeah, I know the fast pace what you're talking about. Because even you know, I tend to talk fast. I tend to move fast. And when my friends from down south come up to visit me, they're like, Wow, everyone up here moves. I had this woman I was used to work for who was from Georgia, and she used to say, you, she goes, You northerners talk way too fast, and you do way too much,

Ethan Marten 10:56
Right! And you're thinking the complete opposite when you're down south,

Dave Bullis 11:00
Yeah. And, you know, it's just, it's a cultural difference, you know, they always say that America is really five different countries put together.

Ethan Marten 11:10
Interesting. What five are they?

Dave Bullis 11:12
There's, like, the Deep South, there's the there's, like, I guess you could call it the Mid Atlantic, which would be like, you know, all of New England and New York and Pennsylvania, there's the Midwest, there is the West Coast, and then there is the other states, kind of like Montana. And I forget what they actually call those, but those are the five states

Ethan Marten 11:32
I would imagine. Alaska and Hawaii are their own state of beings.

Dave Bullis 11:37
Yeah, they're pretty much, were pushed out. They were pretty much, like, you know, not a part of the continental United States.

Ethan Marten 11:42
And, of course, there's Guam but, you know, yeah, and then Puerto Rico

Dave Bullis 11:47
Read my mind.

Ethan Marten 11:50
You know, being an actor, it's one of the interesting things I tend to pick up on, the personalities, the mannerisms, the patterns of wherever I am. I think it's almost like growing up in the military, you adapt, and it's not because you're trying to put one over on anybody. I think actors adapt. And it just, when you're in Rome, you try and connect with people on their level. And it just, it's something that subconsciously just happens. So it's, it's interesting. That's why, whenever I go somewhere, it's like a quick, a quick adjustment.

Dave Bullis 12:25
So, you know, as we talk about that adjustment, Ethan, I want to actually take a, sort of, take a step back and actually ask you a question, when you actually started, you know, getting into this business. I mean, and your dad said that you he wanted to, sort of, you know, protect you from this business when you when you started to get into it, you know what was his initial reaction?

Ethan Marten 12:50
The initial reaction was, you know what you want to do. That's fantastic. You want, you know what you want to do in life. Okay, I'm taking you out to your favorite dinner. So he takes me to myakos, Japan in New York, which was our favorite Japanese restaurant. Miyakos was the first Japanese restaurant that opened in New York. It was so popular, it was like going to a speakeasy, because it was open during World War Two, and only the hipsters knew how to get in, because you basically would go up some steps, down some steps, through a garden to like a back door, and it was literally like getting into a speakeasy. It was so incredible that even Eleanor Roosevelt used to go to this restaurant during World War Two. So that was like, we grew up Japanese food was our favorite food. So, you know, we were always kind of frugal, because pop grew up in the Depression, so you ate what was on your plate. There was no waste, and rarely did you order anything you wanted off the menu. But on this night, it was like, Passover. Why is this night different from all other nights? You can order whatever you want off the menu. And I went crazy. I was like, Oh, yum. Food, everything. Oh, the clear soup, the Sui mono, the sun, a mono, everything was fantastic. And pop says, Well, you like the meal? I said, Oh, pop, this is incredible. Said, Have you had enough. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, Are you sure? Yeah, yeah. He says, and you really want to be an actor, yeah, pop more than anything. Says, okay, and you've had enough to eat. So yeah? Why? He said, because that's the last full meal you're ever gonna have. He was like, You're never and so be sure this is what you want. And you know, he was half joking and a half not. He was really concerned that I was never going to eat again, so he's going to make sure, at least he sent me off with a good meal. That was his response. He supported me all the way. He. You know, when he came out to all the shows, all the openings, all the theater, but he was always worried for me.

Dave Bullis 15:08
So at this point, Ethan went, when you, you finally had that, that your quote, unquote last meal, or as you, as you, as you went on to become an actor. When at that point, what was your sort of, your first gig from there on this road of what you decide to go on to be an actor. Interesting.

Ethan Marten 15:27
I think when I finally decided that I could come out of the acting closet and really admit acting is what I wanted to do, I think the first in that paid professionally was Mother's Day. I think it was originally titled vindicated, a mother's revenge. And it was with Theo Huxtable, Malcolm, Jamal Warner, and Jose Ferrari was in that one. And it was great. I remember the first call that, you know, came that said, Yeah, after three auditions, I thought, Oh, maybe I got another call back. You know, this is exciting. They said, You got the part. And I audibly, I screamed. I was like, yeah. I mean, you would have thought I got to see Reggie Jackson hit his fourth home run in the World Series. It was incredible. I just remember jumping up and down and being so excited. And as it turned out, my brother Jonathan and my brother Seth were also cast in this television movie. So the director who ended up winning, I think, an Emmy Award for this TV movie, grabbed my brother Richard because he was hanging around the set to watch his brothers. And she said, Well, I might as well put the fourth Martin brother in here. So that was the first time all four of us were on camera in a film together. So that was exciting. And all Jose Ferrari wanted to do was golf. So in between takes you lean out, Hey kid, Yeah, where's the closest golf course and don't screw up your lines. So I can, you know, get 18 rounds in. So I was, that was my pressure. I had to get my lines right on the first take so that Jose Ferrari could get out on the links. And I'm proud to say, Yeah, I got him out there. I got him out on time.

Dave Bullis 17:26
That was actually my next question. I was gonna say, Did did Jose Ferrari get in those 18 holes of golf?

Ethan Marten 17:31
Yes, he did. Yes, he did. He said, Good job, kid. I'm out of here. I got a pat on the back from Jose Ferrari because he got to golf.

Dave Bullis 17:42
So it's funny, too, that you fantastic. Well, that the they mentioned the fourth Martin brother, I was actually going to say it's almost like, sort of like the Marx Brothers when they had the four of them together. And all in all the

Ethan Marten 17:54
Look at you, you've been reading. Yes, we, growing up in our house, was like one long, episodic Marx Brothers movie. Mom played the role of Margaret Dumont. We tormented her. She loved it, but man, we tortured her, and she was our Margaret Dumont. Pop was like the ringleader, so there were really five boys that she had to deal with.

Dave Bullis 18:22
No, I've seen duck soup, and I've seen a lot of the Marx Brothers, good man coconuts. Yeah, exactly, yeah. And I'm just a huge movie head. So I've seen a lot of different stuff. You know, I know this is a little bit of a segue, but you know, you know what I was watching the other day, when? And I don't know if you've ever heard of these guys. Have you ever heard of the Bowery boys?

Ethan Marten 18:42
Are you kidding the Bowery Butch, let's see mugs. As a matter of fact, one of mom's nicknames was mugs. So there you go. As a matter of fact, for my birthday, not too long ago, my brother Seth actually sent me a picture of hunts Hall, who played Satch. Yep, Satch. So I remember him when they were the dead end kids, before they became the Bowery boys and the East Side kids, but they were the dead end kids, yeah.

Dave Bullis 19:13
And I remember there were those movies were a little more dramatic, you know, because people were getting shot at. And then when they became the Bowery boys, it became a not for the first couple eventually became a little a lot more light hearted. You know what I mean, instead of, like, the serious sort of incidences like happening, like, there was, there was one where one of their friends died in a boxing ring, and they had to sort of find his brother, and the brother went on a revenge kick, and

Ethan Marten 19:38
Mouse is in the milk. The mouse is in the milk. That's the episode, as a matter of fact, dead end kids. You know, that was with Jimmy Cagney and Humphrey Bogart. And you're right. Those were really serious movies. And yeah, they is, they went. Remember the mark of the Squealer? When somebody's a rat, they get the mark of the Squealer. They had him pinned in the hideout. We were gonna slit his face from the mouth to the ear. Yeah, yeah. They got a lot more light hearted after that. I guess they didn't think that would be good for weekly cereals. Yeah.

Dave Bullis 20:28
That's when they became more more, much more slapstick. And I, you know, again, I think that probably worked out for them, because they sort of, you know, it was either them or the Stooges. At that point, we really started to stand out

Ethan Marten 20:40
Exactly, you know, it's funny. My first agent, Marty and Charlie, her husband, was one of the original Dead End kids. Wow, right off the Broadway stage. So he's actually and he so he acted with all these guys on stage as the original Dead End kids. And he's actually still up and running. I'll hook you guys up. He's got some stories.

Dave Bullis 21:09
Oh, what? Please do you know? Because I actually was telling somebody the other day. I we there was one of the later Bowery boys entitled hold that uranium. And there was a sequel to it called, I think, breaking Las Vegas, or something with Las Vegas. And that was actually the last movie for Leo gorsey, because his dad, Bernard gorsey, had actually died before the movie actually started filming. And he actually died in auto accident and and that was actually a lot of controversy about that, because Leo showed up to set completely inebriated. And you could, I mean, his performance was, was, you could tell something was wrong. And, I mean, when they, when you start watching it, and, you know, it's afterwards, apparently, you know, there's a lot more problems behind the set. But, I mean, it's just interesting to hear all of these, you know, all these things, because this is all the, you know, the Hollywood Golden Era, you know, this is all that, you know, interesting, interesting stuff. And everyone from that era is either, you know, in their late 80s, early 90s,

Ethan Marten 22:11
If they're still around, yeah, yeah,

Dave Bullis 22:13
So, but yeah. So, you know, as we sort of segued off to off of the whole,

Ethan Marten 22:19
I can't believe you asked me about that. That's great. Nobody's ever asked me about the dead end kids before. That's That was my childhood dead end kids, anything having to do with Broadway and, you know, motion pictures and Lenny, Bruce, so yeah, and the producers the original JIRA mostell, Gene Wilder, oh, to give you an idea of my childhood, you know, I grew up being able to sing Springtime for Hitler by the time I was in kindergarten, which made me kind of a different kind of kid. I could, I could perform Lenny Bruce routines by the time I was in first grade. I never actually thought about that before, but yeah, which made me really popular with the principal.

Dave Bullis 23:05
They're probably Ethan. Now we can't be singing Springtime for Hitler, even though, even though Dick Sean is was very good in the film boomerang baby no power. Well, I'm glad I could ask you a question you have.

Ethan Marten 23:21
Yeah, go for it. Keep going. I love where this is going.

Dave Bullis 23:26
So I actually was gonna, you know, bring, sort of bring this back to you, talking about your acting career,

Ethan Marten 23:33
My lifetime achievement award. How could I forget?

Dave Bullis 23:36
Exactly! Yeah, just going, sort of going back and, you know, talking about the young Indiana Jones Chronicles. Oh, my goodness. So I just wanted to ask, you know, obviously, how were you able to, sort of, you know, we went from this Mother's Day with Malcolm John Warner, you know, when you went from there, did you finally say, Okay, now, you know, obviously, you probably talked to your dad and said, you know, now I'm starting to get work. I'm starting to become, you know, the an actor who has to, you know, Goldies.

Ethan Marten 24:00
She's a Jewish father. He never stopped worrying, are you eating? You're not eating enough? Keep eating. I mean, he was happy. They were they were ecstatic when I got work and, you know, but it was like, when's the next job coming? Are you are you eating enough? That was it. If I was eating, he was happy. I had a roof over my head, and I was eating. Then he was happy, easy, you know, that that was the thing. So I'm auditioning for this TV movie, you know, and it's really cool. And my agent at the time, kept sending me down for policemen. For some reason, she was bound and determined to get me cast as a policeman in something I was the young cop. Didn't matter if it was a black police officer, if it was a 65 year old. Old, retired police officer. It could be an Indonesian police officer. She sent me for every police officer. I remember one time going down to audition for the Finn cannons. And Craig and his brother Mark were kind of mentors to me, and they gave me some of my first work behind the camera. And they're like, Ethan, what are you doing here? And I'm like, What do you mean? What am I? I'm here to audition for my latest police officer role. He says, Ethan, the guy's 65 years old. He's retired, and he's black. And I looked at him, and in those days, it was like a seven to eight hour drive one way to these auditions in Wilmington, and I looked at him, and I just shook my head, and we left. We had a little laugh together. I said, well, as long as I'm here, do you mind if I audition just so I can make it worth my while? He says, Yeah, go ahead. So I do my thing, and I do my little 32nd prep, and I give it to him, and he says, Wow, that was great. It really was. He said, If you were any one of these things, I could manipulate it for you, but what a shame you were really that was great. See you next time, you know, and I had to turn around and take a nice eight hour trip right back to Virginia Beach. I used to go to these things. And this is, this might be something for your young acting audience. And I used to like to go present myself as myself to, you know, the casting people, and then get into character and do my thing. And there was this one guy, J Michael Hunter, who at this point had a resume that was as long as my arm. Now, I'm short. I'm like five, six on a good day. Five, five and three quarters. Dark hair, swarthy. He was an all American six foot two, blonde hair, blue eyes, you know, just a scrapping young American my life, where it would come down to a choice between this guy and me, and I, you know, two, three callbacks, and I had one or two things on my resume that were legitimate, and he had about 30 or 40, and I think one day he took mercy on me, and he said, hey, when you go in there, do you go in and character? Or do you go in and then present yourself, then get into character? I said, Oh, the latter says, Don't do that. So why not? He says, they don't care if you can act or not. They're casting directors. What do you mean? They don't care if I can act or not? No, they got jobs to maintain. They don't want to know that you can turn it on and turn it off, because you may not be the same guy who shows up on set that showed up in the audition. No, when you go in there, you go in in character, and then you get the hell out and you leave in character. I'm like, Well, okay, I got nothing else to lose. It's not like I get everything that I auditioned for. I'll give it a shot. So in Indiana Jones, I went in and I knew that the fin cannons knew me. You know, this is my 20th audition with them, and they had yet to cast me in anything, and they loved me, but they just hadn't cast me yet, and I went in in character. As a matter of fact, my agent sent me for another police officer. And it was 1920s Tin Pan Alley, a bunch of Jews running around. Now, my dad's first words were mammy, it was Al Jolson. I grew up with Al Gilson playing and Eddie Cantor and all these things this. I was home and I was being sent to audition for another police officer. And I looked at Craig and I said, buddy, this. These are my people, you must have something that's more appropriate for me than police officer. And he said, Yeah, I think I got something. So he gave me Irving Berlin. And I go in, and I just decide I'm going in in character. And I mean, I didn't prison. Ethan Martin disappeared. Irving Berlin walked in, and Irving Berlin walked out, and lo and behold, I landed it. I mean, on the way out, they said, we don't even have to, you know, we don't even have to call you, you're in. That was perfect. And I just walked and I didn't answer ms Ethan, I just gave him the finger to the nose the salute. I was Irving Berlin and I walked out, and that's how I got the Indiana Jones part on set. The director Sid McCartney was so fantastic this. And I had a real theatrical background, lots of improv and comedy as well. And so I would always improv, not wildly, but the character would always take over. So I have a great respect for writers. Mom wrote 20 books, so my respect for the written word is tremendous. But man, when the character would take over, stuff would just come out of my mouth, because it was a character speaking through me. And there's an old Jewish way of expressing yourself, you know, where you call a youngster a boy chick. And I remember, I threw in, I called, is it Sean Patrick Flannery, who was playing the young indie I said, Well, boy chick, it's simple. You can't stop thinking about her because and then we all break into song, and they let it play out cut. What's this boy chick? I said, Oh, that's, that's the real deal. That's authentic. Said, Are you sure? I said, Sid, I swear to God, I swear on a stack of holy Bibles that'll make you look like a genius, like you grew up in Tin Pan Alley. He left it in, and, lo and behold, that's stuck. So I was allowed, I was allowed some free range. And I don't think there's a role where I haven't slipped some improvisation into it ever since.

Dave Bullis 31:36
You know, that is a very good tip, by the way, for the all the actors out there. And, you know, honestly, even, I also think helps that you showed up, you know, prepare for the role. And I think, you know, when you just sort of hit it out of the ballpark like that. You know, when you're just, of just sort of my perspective and my experience. I remember one time, and I remember we were in a cat I was with a friend of mine who was casting a movie, his casting his own movie. And this guy came in, and I remember he just basically he, do you remember the comedian, Sam Kinison,

Ethan Marten 32:11
Sure, I promise. Since you've got headsets on, I won't imitate him for you.

Dave Bullis 32:17
I there was a guy who came and he was, basically, he kind of portrayed the character of Sam Kinison. And I just, but the thing is, I still remember it. I remember everything he said. I remember him coming in the room. I remember how he left the room. And I, you know, I think the guy, he didn't end up getting the part. But I mean, my God, I mean, he blew the roof off the place with that, with that audition, and it just reminds as you were telling me the story of the audition for young Indiana Jones, it just reminded me of that so much, where he actually came in as a character, left as the character, and he just, it just was so on point.

Ethan Marten 32:53
You know, it's funny. I'll tell you another it'll seem like I'm taking a tangent, but I'll bring it right back to your point, when I was youngster, and really just kind of starting out before I was getting cast in things, my heroes, my parents, my mom, my dad, my three older brothers, two of my brothers, Jonathan and Seth, were actors, and they took a special interest in me when I decided I really wanted to do this, and Jonathan trained me Seth, one day, he said, You know what here? And he flipped, he flipped the script at me, you know little French's. And I opened it up, and it's Sam Shepard, True West, and he said, start reading. So I got to do the opening scene with my big brother. This was the first time he was going to actually do a scene with me. We were in his apartment in the city, and his friends, because he was going to NYU, and his pals from the class were there. And so to me, this was a huge big deal. My big brother is doing a scene with me, with his NYU acting buddies all around him. Holy shit. All right, this is cool. So we finished the scene, and this guy in the corner leans in says, Well, we know the kid can act and that was his friend, Kevin Spacey. We fast forward years later, and spacey is hanging out with Seth at mom and dad's apartment. They moved out of Larchmont. They were in the city before they moved down to Virginia, and their mutual friend who was also in the apartment that day, Dave silver, and they all knew each other, but silver calls the apartment looking for Seth and spacey picks up the phone, and it's mom and dad's place. So he picks up the phone as Johnny Carson, and he starts doing Carson, and silver didn't believe. Believe that my old man knew Carson, but he knew about my dad's history, so he knew all the people. So he's like, Well, you know, if you're Johnny Carson, then where's Ed McMahon? And without skipping a beat, spacey puts his hand over, you know, the mouthpiece, and he turns to Seth in character as Carson. Well, why is it that everybody thinks we're joined at the hip? He wasn't portraying, he wasn't doing an imitation. He became the character. And this is what I tell people, don't portray, don't imitate. You become the character. Years later, Seth told silver that it was actually spacey doing Carson. And he couldn't believe it, because he so bought it hook, line and sinker, that that was Carson. When Seth told spacey, yeah, you know, I told silver, he's like, now, these guys were all friends, but he said, No, you blew it, you killed the illusion. And it was just so interesting to see the way his acting mind worked. You don't portray. You become you are it, and so much so that you keep the illusion going, because that's the art, that's what makes it fantastic. So we come back to your original point. It's not that you portray these people. When you go in as an actor, you become and you leave them with that because you're making the casting director's job easy. They want to keep working too. Your job is to make them so secure that when they recommend you, it reflects well on them. They want it. I mean, that's the first thing you learn when you audition. You go in and, man, they're rooting for you. They really are. You don't have to be nervous about these people on the other side of the table. They are as nervous as you are. They need you to be that good because it makes their job easier. You do it right. Man. They can move on to the next one. Boom. You save them time, effort and energy. So don't give them anything to think about. Don't ask extraneous questions. Do the audition be the person then get the hell out. Don't say another word. Don't give them a reason to second guess you.

Dave Bullis 37:25
You know, that's very good point, by the way. Ethan, don't make them second guess you, or don't allow them to second guess you. I one time, I remember there was this actress one time who, as she was leaving the audition, do you want to know what she said to the casting director?

Ethan Marten 37:37
She I'll feel empathy pains, but go ahead.

Dave Bullis 37:42
She said, I really hope I get this part. But every time I have, ah, no, no, no. She says, every time, but, but every time I get a big part, something bad happens to me. Oh, Jesus and the casting directors and the casting

Ethan Marten 38:00
Somebody dies on the set. I don't know what happens every time I get cast. Somebody gets poisoned, somebody dies.

Dave Bullis 38:08
So the casting director follows up and says, Well, what do you mean? And she says, Well, the last film I had, I was a I had a principal role, but I broke my ankle two days before filming, and I had to show up on crutches, and they had to recast, you know, that day, and and he goes, Oh, okay, then, and, you know, and she leaves, and he goes, Well, I can never hire her. She has put that image in his head now that if he casts her, she's gonna, you know, end up hurting herself or doing something horrible.

Ethan Marten 38:39
So let that be a lesson to all you actors out there. Be very quiet,

Dave Bullis 38:49
you know. And either I wanted to ask you a question about because you touched on this briefly about directors, you know. And it's something I always look for from a different perspective, because as actors view directors. I wanted to always, I always want to get your take on this. I always ask different actors this question about working with different directors, of all these different styles, in your opinion, Ethan, with all your experience and all the projects that you have worked on, what are some of the key things that that you feel

Ethan Marten 39:17
Communication,

Dave Bullis 39:18
You know, what I was going,

Ethan Marten 39:20
I mean, it's when, and I've been on both sides and it, I think it helps for actors and for crew to have, you know, had each other's experience. What you want more than anything is trust as an actor, you want to be able to trust and fully trust your and the director needs to believe in the performer and the performers ability. Once you have a way of communicating with each other, You know, because a director wants to manipulate the actor, the director has to get something out of the actor. It's kind of like being an actor. You know, you have an objective, you have specifics, you have your methodology of how you're going to achieve those goals. When you know, if you're a director, some people like specific directions. Go to the corner, turn right at Fifth Street and then left unto Lexington. Boom, you're there. Some people like now you're going to go to the corner and you're going to see a Shell station, and it's got this great, big, beautiful right after you see the shell turn right at the Shell station, and then you go down about two three more blocks, and you're going to see a dinosaur. That's where. So you have to learn right off the bat. How is it with the other so that you get what you want works for the actor too. Actor kind of has to direct the director into directing them the way they need to be directed, and you want to do it in a way that builds trust in that relationship. So it's, it's very funny, the magic as if is a great thing, you know, for the actor and for the director. Hey, it's, it's as if you're tasting wine for the first time, and you know, you give them the sensations that they can feel in their mouth. Some people need that sensory direction. Some people just, you know, no, just tell me to drink it. Make a you know, it's sour. Okay, great, I got it. I know what to do.

Dave Bullis 41:50
You know, as we've had different directors on as well, they always try. They always said to me, Dave, avoid the whole result directing. And that is the whole like, Okay, you're angry, and this and that. And some of the directors that I've had on here, they've worked with people like, you know, Ron Perlman and other, you know, other actors, and they said, sometimes they'll actually just say, Look, just if you want me to speak slower, just tell me that. Just tell me to speak faster. You know what? I mean. It just sort of, it's sort of quick short and to the point

Ethan Marten 42:18
I think very few actors that pride themselves on being actors want a line reading. And I think the most annoying thing that a director can do is say, Here, just do it like this, and then they perform it for you. And you know, it's kind of like when you're a little kid, because actors are we're insecure little kids. No matter how secure we seem, we're acting. We're insecure. We want approval. We want the love and adulation. We want an attaboy or an atta girl, don't it's kind of like when you're that little kid, and mom says, go over and kiss your grandma goodbye. You don't want to be told now you're only kissing her goodbye because you've been told, and it doesn't feel like it's a sincere goodbye kiss because somebody had to tell you to do it. And you're stubborn that way. And you know that's an actor. Don't give me a line reading. Just communicate with me. Take the time to build that method of communication where it becomes like psychic communication. I can anticipate exactly what you want because you, Mr. MS, Director, you have taken the time to get to know me. You know how best to reach me, to pull the best stuff out of me, and I trust you. The flip side of that is when you so blow trust with your actor or your director, that neither one of you trusts the other one. So it's like when you hear something, you're thinking, Well, I know that's the wrong thing. That's the totally wrong thing, and that's a horrible place to be as a director or an actor. So building trust and communication, those are the best things you can give each other on a set.

Dave Bullis 44:16
Yeah, that is a great point. Ethan is trust and communication, particularly communication, I, you know, I've experienced sometimes where it there hasn't been a lot of communication, sometimes on sets and I think, yeah, I mean,

Ethan Marten 44:31
Where the communication is basically like a Meisner exercise, which in New York means you're, have you ever done any of the Meisner repetition exercises? No, I haven't. Okay, I'll give you an example. Everybody in your audience knows Meisner without even knowing that they know Meisner, because when De Niro is looking in the mirror, are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? He's actually doing a simple. Meisner exercise. It's that repetition exercise. They're just repeating each other until something organic comes in. But in New York, the repetition, you know, breaks down into Fuck you. Fuck you right away. So that's where that comes in. So if that's the communication that's happening on set when it's broken down into Fuck you, and that's the second or third thing that's bad communication. Just in case you didn't know that. Thank you. Thank you. I'll be here all week. Remember to tip your waiters and waitresses.

Dave Bullis 45:33
I'm learning all the time. Ethan I'm learning all the time. There you go. So, you know, this is something too. That's where we sort of progress. You know, obviously, through your career, you know, in 2005 you know, you have your, you know, producing credit,

Ethan Marten 45:47
Okay, what did I purchase it? What did I'm curious.

Dave Bullis 45:51
Well, the reason I brought it was called Play players, joy, but no, the reason I bring it up is because it ties in with my next question, and that is, you know, as actors, you know they sort of talk about different projects. One thing that you know sometimes I recommend to actors is, is, if you really want to play a certain role, write a script with yourself in mind to play that role and and one of the other things I recommend is also always and always try to make yourself a producer, because you can actually protect that role so that, and that's just something I usually tell actors to do is, again, the first part is more important than anything else, but again, writing that script and putting that part in there. But I want to ask, you know, when you know this point you decided to actually start producing, was there, was there any sort of reason why you actually went behind the camera and then started producing? I mean, did you always have an interest in producing?

Ethan Marten 46:47
No, none whatsoever. It came from one of the fincannons. Was Craig van cannon again, who, as he was mentoring me, said, Ethan, you know, listen, you're a really good actor. He said, you'll be stuck in under fives and day player roles for the rest of your life, because you're choosing to live here in this area and on the East Coast, and you should be doing more. He said, start producing your own stuff so that you can actually build into and expand into greater roles. That way people see your work, and then you'll start getting cast in more significant stuff. Because basically, it's like that casting director, you go in and you give them some assurity that that same person is going to show up on the set well, you know, they want to see that you've already been entrusted with something larger, that you could handle it, that you could hit a home run for them. So he said, start producing your own stuff. So my brother John was directing this play. It was players of joy, and it was a very Spalding, gray esque show about baseball, something you know me and Seth and John all grew up around was baseball. Our lives were baseball. So we understood this and is, you know, an allegorical story for life. It just really resonated. So I thought, okay, for a few $1,000 I can actually bring this to life, get it filmed, and I'll get my first taste of actually producing from the ground up, a motion picture full length. So that's exactly why I did that. I wanted to get my feet wet, and I thought that this was something that would be incredibly worthwhile. And manageable. And the guy who starred in it and wrote it, Ralph Elias, he did an incredible job, very Spalding, gray esque. I wish someday when I actually win my real lifetime achievement award, I'm going to make sure that this guy, you know, gets his due and it gets seen by a much wider audience, because it's a powerful performance.

Dave Bullis 49:09
And I hope one day, Ethan you do, get that real lifetime achievement award,

Ethan Marten 49:14
Not that the Dave Bullis Lifetime Achievement Award isn't something special, because it is. It is, thank you. Thank you very well. You're very welcome.

Dave Bullis 49:25
I've carved out a little niche here in the internet, and so, you know, that's just, you know, an amazing story. Because I always wondered that too, about, you know, whenever somebody goes who's in front of the camera goes behind, and whoever's behind goes in front, you know, because I've seen certain people have been able to sort of transcend this and actually do both with like you have and you've been able to sort of, you know, you've been in front of the camera and done well. You've been behind the camera and done well. So what is sort of the one thing that you've noticed behind the camera that's sort of that one trademark to do? Because some some people would say, well, it's management skills, and other people say, well, it's communication. And other people will say, Well, maybe it's just finding the right passion.

Ethan Marten 50:17
Passion, passion. It's here every indie filmmaker is a salesman. Every actor is a salesman. You have to sell, and most of us, we hate to sell, and we don't want to be sales people. So here's my trick, if you believe in it. It's not sales. It's like when you're a little kid, it's as if you have to get the car keys for that once in a lifetime date. And you don't think to yourself, well, if I punctuate this word, mom and dad will really believe me. It'll be very believable. No, you you have to have those keys, you have to have that car. You've got to be on this date, because this is the love of your life. You're 17, you know you're going to get married and have the most beautiful children, and life is going to be incredible. When you're doing a motion picture. You hopefully so passionate about the story. If you're an actor, you're passionate about the character you're playing. You believe in it. If you don't believe in it, then it's sales, and then it's very difficult, because you can't sell something you don't believe in nobody, nobody will buy it, and if they do, you feel horrible about it and guilty, and you have to totally throw yourself into the story. You have to totally throw yourself into the character. And it works. If you're if you're a sound person, and you you hate what you're doing, your sound is going to be awful, but if you love it, man, you're looking at all the details you're you're going to get all the wild sounds you you're going to get the footsteps leading up, you're going to get the snap of the fingers, you're going to get the the slapping of the waves, the water hitting up against the sea wall. It's just you have to have that passion and that love and that belief in what you're doing, and that works for in front of the camera. It works for behind the camera.

Dave Bullis 52:29
You know, there's a saying I once learned in sales, Ethan, and that was, everything in this world is sales, and all sales is problem solving. And that's just something that sort of stuck with me. And I know, and I know exactly what you mean by if you don't believe in the product, you feel bad about it. You know what I mean? You don't feel like there's anything. There's nothing special about it.

Ethan Marten 52:50
You got a lot more problems to solve if you don't believe in it, and it becomes drudgery if you don't believe in it, and then that's a job, as opposed to a passion and something you love doing. And I wake up every day and I just, I'm excited, I'm happy because, you know, I get to do what I love to do. I mean, first and foremost, I'm a father, and I think I love being a father more than anything else in the universe. Hi, Hannah. But when it comes to my vocation, when it comes to what you know, how I make my living, I wouldn't want to do it any other way. I love telling stories. I love creating characters. I can do that all day, and it'll seem like no time has passed. Now that's that's lucky. If you're lucky enough to do that

Dave Bullis 53:49
Exactly, Ethan you have created a life that you never need a vacation from.

Ethan Marten 53:54
Yes, it's just every once in a while it'd be nice to do that part. Bali, that'd be great. That'd be great.

Dave Bullis 54:02
And as we talk sort of about the about passion and everything, I want to talk about your new film eyes with the Roshi. Oh, absolutely. And you know, I actually was able to get a chance to watch it, by the way, your performance was fantastic. And I'm not just saying that because you're on the podcast, by the way, I actually really do mean that your performance was fantastic.

Ethan Marten 54:21
So you're saying I could actually be receiving the Dave Bullis Lifetime Achievement Award for the performance in eyes of the Roshi.

Dave Bullis 54:28
You have, exactly right? I have, I'm pulling see, it's kind of like that. There's that old screenwriting method. I give it to you, I take it away. I give it to you, I take it away.

Ethan Marten 54:39
You gave it to me, and I took it and that's great, or maybe I forced it down your throat and took it anyway. Well, I'm curious. For me, there were so many great performances in that movie. What is it about the interactions and the performances? Why did they stand out for you?

Dave Bullis 54:58
So I'm going to bring. To get down to three scenes that I Okay? I think really, there's always one scene, in my opinion, of every movie, no matter what movie you pick up, there's always one scene that defines the movie. And I

Ethan Marten 55:11
Everybody has their favorite, so I can't wait to hear yours.

Dave Bullis 55:15
Well, my scene, well, the three I was gonna say, were the one with you and Eric Roberts in the hotel room.

Ethan Marten 55:21
Okay, there's the what the first scene or the last

Dave Bullis 55:25
The first scene, okay, where you're sort of, yeah, you're at, like, the desk, and Eric Roberts sort of walks in. There's that scene. The the second scene is, is with Eric Roberts. And I'm sorry, I don't know the other actor's name, they sort of come in in the ski masks, and there's

Ethan Marten 55:42
Well, that that would be Eric Roberts and my brother Seth as itchy.

Dave Bullis 55:47
And I mean that scene too, and I'm sorry I didn't know his name.

Ethan Marten 55:50
I apologize. No, that's all right. That's right. I told you there'd be an there'd be a Martin brothers quiz at the end of this,

Dave Bullis 55:57
And I failed the pop quiz. No, that's all right.

Ethan Marten 56:00
That's right. So take the right scene. Go ahead

Dave Bullis 56:02
And that, that scene right there. And I don't want to spoil anything for anybody. I know. I know

Ethan Marten 56:07
It's hard. I want to talk and break these scenes down, because, again, those were my acting teachers, my brothers. And you know, I love watching them work. And that scene, I don't think it's giving anything away to say that was hysterical.

Dave Bullis 56:22
Oh yes, yes, it was, especially the part about the, well, this isn't giving anything away, the part about the door. That's why I actually laughed out loud. And I was like, that is, that is, you know, freaking hysterical. And then that was my and then that scene, and then the third scene was with, with you at the end. And again, I don't want to give too much away, but it was you, with you with you at the end. And that that, to me, that third scene was the, basically, the antithesis of the whole movie.

Ethan Marten 56:49
You know, it's amazing. There were so many good performances, and I appreciate those kind words. You know, I look at Stacy Whittle, who plays Eric Roberts love interest in the film. And it's it's a tough role to break out in, and I thought she did an extraordinary job, and it's not one of the flashier parts to play, and she did it so well, and she had to portray so many different emotions. Amanda Dunn as Blanche, the the ingenue of the film, again, so versatile. Can go from comedy to drama in the drop of a hat and be so good at all of them. Chris Van Cleve, that one scene where he breaks out into song. I mean, for me, that was, that's one of the scenes that I love in this film, because it seems that our our status is a cult phenomenon is sealed in that one moment during the film. But Jonathan is Marty, that scene in the taxi cab near the end of the film. I mean, you can literally cut that tension with a knife. And the way the music makes you think you're about to watch a comic scene, and we play that little sleight of hand. And then, you know, an audience of 400 people jump out of their seats because we took you did a little sleight of hand on them. They're just so many cool behind the scenes elements that you wouldn't realize are part of a film. Unless you're behind the scenes, you go, ah, you know, this wasn't a mistake. This happened on purpose, and that's kind of a cool thing too. But anyway, thank you. Thank you.

Dave Bullis 58:40
Oh, you're very welcome. And again, John, I'm not just saying that because, you know, obviously, on the podcast with me, you know, I thought, you know, this was a, you know, a really, really interesting movie. And again, I think your performance was phenomenal. And I want to sort of ask,

Ethan Marten 58:54
Was that a surprise? I mean, you see a lot of indie films, and I know you talk to a lot of indie people, what is it when you're watching all these films? Because I know you want to be listen when you're a podcaster supporting indie films, and I don't think it's fair to compare an indie film with the resources that it has. Shouldn't Be direct. You know, you're trying to achieve something, and you're trying to achieve it on micro budgets, usually, and it's not fair to just put them head to head with the resources of a major studio. So you're wanting to be pleasantly surprised you.

Dave Bullis 59:40
Well, the I would

Ethan Marten 59:42
Did know I was gonna turn the tables on you, did you

Dave Bullis 59:44
Well, no, I What happens is I get to see a ton of movies, a ton of movies that that's, you know, you know, obviously someone just sent to me. Hey, Dave, watch this. Do you want us on the podcast? And I sometimes I watch them and I say to myself, I understand, you know, where they're coming from with this. Other times I watch them and I say, Wow. You know, for the budget they had, they did a lot more. It doesn't look like a 50,000 or 100,000 or what have you film. It looks like a multi million dollar film. And I'm able to sort of, you know, see different ways of how things are done. And that's sometimes when, you know, you just see different things, and you just sort of blown away by different things. And I just think your performance, and this was very well done. I think it was, you know, it was, well, I wasn't gonna say this either, but I'll say it now, I think you stole the show. Okay, I don't know. I usually I know, because, again, you're on the podcast, and sometimes, you know, I don't want to seem like I'm just sort of talking up my guest. But no, I really think he did. And, you know, that's just, you know, I always try.

Ethan Marten 1:01:06
I'm proud to be part of this ensemble. I, you know, I just think there were so many fine performances in this I'm very happy to just be amongst what I think was a fine troupe, a fine ensemble, and I'm just really happy to be part of this, this rep company, so that's what I'll say. And thank you again for your kind words. I just want to be able to keep making more of these type of films and bring more of these types of characters to light so. So thank you.

Dave Bullis 1:01:44
Oh, my pleasure. And I want to just sort of follow that up with one question. You were a producer of eyes of Roshi as well. So I wanted to ask, when you're wearing your producer's hat, you know, was this screenplay sort of presented to you? Did you sort of you know? Did you know The you know, you know what I mean? Or did you sort of find it one way or the other? You know, I wanted to ask you, how did you know? Because, obviously, the road to production is very long. Obviously the road is very long. So I wanted to ask you, Ethan, you know, how did you go about getting all these pieces together?

Ethan Marten 1:02:18
Originally, when I was speaking to Grandmaster, Adam, and he had his own ideas of what he wanted to produce, and somebody who became our, one of our associate producers, Mary Mann. She'd been following him around for a year, and she wrote a book based on some of his stories, some of his travels, some of the things that actually happened in his life, and then a bunch of fiction, and they gave me some of it to read one day. And Mary had written something that was, you know, pretty extraordinary in a book form, and Adam had kind of re edited some of her stuff, and it was like ideas that were in his head but didn't translate well on paper. And they said, Here, read this. And it was about four or five pages, single spaced, and you know, the pica width was, you know, barely fitting on on the page. And there was like six or seven characters, and I basically read them straight through, and I was editing and rewriting as I was reading and playing these seven characters. So, you know, it was like a split personality come to life. And I remember Mary going through her copy of what I was reading. She had a hard copy, and she was looking for where I was getting, what I was performing from. And she looked at me when I was done, she said, Oh, that was pretty good. I can't find any of what you just did on my paper that I wrote, but that was really good. So I looked at him, and I said, Look what you have. Here is book form, not a screenplay. We're going to have to write a screenplay, and we set about writing a screenplay, and when that screenplay was finally written by a very talented writer out of Spain, it would have cost about $30 million to produce. It was just beyond the present capability. So the director, and at the time the ad John Mark Dale and Joseph Baum took about writing a new screenplay, and they inserted a heck of a lot more testosterone in it, and it kind of took a different direction, because Adam wanted a lot more spirituality and and Buddhism. And, you know, he I think he wanted it more in the direction of karate kid than the Godfather, even though he loves the godfather. So it was a constant state of negotiating between the writers and Adam to get enough of his teachings in while making something that we thought could be commercially. Be viable. And basically what you see was the product of about a year, year and a half's work and negotiation so guided. And I would say, you know, I helped write additional material, and so did Mary, but it was with a heavy guiding hand, ushering this present screenplay into being.

Dave Bullis 1:05:27
And so that's interesting. You were able to take it and in a development, you know what I mean? And actually, you don't sort of shepherd that along, because, you know that that is, you know, obviously. So when you were finally got that script and you were, you said, this is, this is that. This is the script that we could go with, you know, what was there? What was the next step? Was it, you know, sort of finding the money was, were you always planning to shoot in that, that Virginia Beach area, you know? So, what was sort of the next step?

Ethan Marten 1:05:53
I have a firm commitment with the state of Virginia. I've told these guys, listen, I raised my daughter here. I live here. This is home. Whenever I can. I will be shooting in this area, and they've been very good and very cooperative. And I know all the key locations, and I know the crew. You know these crew members have worked with everybody from Nicholson to Spielberg, you know, to Tom Cruise, the locations. You know, so many of them have never been on film before. I can with the turn of the camera. I can be in the tropics or the desert. So it just lends itself in so many ways. So yes, I knew I was going to be here. The money raising is actually not the most difficult part for me, which might be funny to other people. The roughest part, I think, is just once you have the film, ushering it in and through post production to make sure that what you've captured, you know, comes to life in an even better way. All along the process, you want to keep making it better than what you were hoping for or thought it could be. And you know, the toughest, toughest part is distribution. It's, it's the distribution all young filmmakers have an idea of where you're going to bring this film before you make it, unless you just don't care. And you know, if the story is just you have to tell it because it'll kill you not to tell your story, which is great, then go for it. But you know, it's show business, so have an idea of where you're bringing it, who you're bringing it to. That's why we were so fortunate to have Eric Roberts, who brings such a great performance, gives us some name credibility. And, you know, without Eric Roberts in it, a lot of people wouldn't have even looked at the film, you know. And this is why we've developed such a fun cult following, because people came along to see Eric Roberts, and then they discovered all this incredible talent that came along with them. And I got to say, thank you 100 times over to to to Eric, because, you know, he came in, he was a he was a prince. He was very giving, both as an actor and, you know, just to everybody, cast crew. He understood, he's been more than 400 films, and he just had such patience for everybody. And he, you know, I thanked him at one point for being such a good teacher. He said, Oh, no, no, I'm not anybody standing said, yeah, yeah, you did, because you were generous with crew. You were generous with other cast. He's an actor's actor, he's a director's actor. He's just, he was great. I don't think there was anybody on that set that didn't have a great experience with him.

Dave Bullis 1:09:01
Yeah, I've, I've heard nothing but good things about Eric Roberts as well. I've had some friends, both as actors and filmmakers, who got to work with Eric and again, nothing but good things to say about him.

Ethan Marten 1:09:12
Yeah, I have nothing but the utmost respect, both for what he did on camera and what he did behind the scenes,

Dave Bullis 1:09:20
So now, and also, Ethan, just you sort of mentioned this, and I wanted to ask you about this. I'm glad you brought it up. Was, yeah, sure, distribution, you know, that's sort of like the new key word because of all this, because, you know, there it's a lot easier, quote, unquote, easier, to make it any film now, but it's a lot harder to get people to see it, because, you know, it's a war of eyeballs and ears, right?

Ethan Marten 1:09:40
Well, you know, it's the democratization of film. Once film went digital, and it's only been little over 10 years, where it really went from experimental, you know, the AG, HVX, Panasonic, it was the first camera to, you know, use the p2 cards and my film company at the time, Star circle pictures. It's my company now is light age films. I gave star circle to my brother Richard, and so he has carried on Star circle to this day and waveform studios. But we were the first in the world to produce a complete film with that Panasonic, AG, HVX, 200 so that was the first time p2 cards that digital technology could be used. So we did a pre vis of the film, the storyboards we shot and edited right there on set, and in two days, we had a 20 plus minute film fully edited rough when we wrapped. And I remember speaking to the guy from Fast Company Magazine. I think he ended up winning Pulitzer Prize. And I can't think of his name right now, but, you know, I said to him, within 10 years, digital will be how the majority of films are made. And he was like, Well, I think that's a bit ambitious. I said, you watch, you know, it's rather than ship 1000 film prints all over the country with a push of a button, they'll be able to, you know, send the film to theaters. It's on shipping. You're going to save on processing, you're going to save it. And here we are. So film has been democratized. The great thing about that is anybody with a passion to tell a story can tell the story. The bad thing about it is anybody who's got the passion to tell a story can tell a story. So some of these are great and should be made and wouldn't have been made, and some of them are horrible and never should have seen the light of day. But anybody wants to make a film can make a film. So how do you get your film seen? Well, you know, if you're trying to make money at it, there's a lot of luck and there's a lot of business that goes into it. I'm very fortunate. For me, it's kind of full circle. When I was a kid, one of my dad's business associates was independent international pitchers Corporation President Samuel Sherman, and Sam wanted to see the film. He was going to give me some pointers. And he's one of the most knowledgeable guys in the business, and he still has huge connections, and he's got a vast library of films, some of the classics, some of his own, and it screens about an hour and 47 minutes. Roshi, does I send it to him hour and 57 minutes later, he's on the phone. Of me, I love this film. He says, You have a very salable motion picture. I'm going to represent it. For you. We're going to get this sold. Be patient. It's rough out there right now, but I'm going to get you a distribution deal. So for me, I'm really lucky. I'm in the hands of, you know, an old time Mensch of motion pictures, Sam Sherman, not everybody has that. So for me, all I got to do is provide Sam with, you know, materials as he shops it for us, for other guys, you know, again, that's another reason why you have to believe in what you're working on, because it's your passion. It's your never give up, never say die attitude. It's networking and being seen and seeing people. And you know, finding the people who you can trap and show your film to. This is, this is how when you're starting out, you got to do it. You got to know people. You've got to break down doors. You have to get past the gatekeepers. That's how you do it, yeah.

Dave Bullis 1:14:06
And, you know, again, you mentioned a little bit of luck as well. And also you mentioned about, you know, knowing what you're gonna do with your film. Honestly, I've had friends who've had different, you know, variations of experiences, of luck, of, you know, of highs and lows doing all sorts of different ways to release their films. And, you know, some have just released it on YouTube and said, Here it is. It's free. You know, we're just hoping to get some other, you know, other funding from this, because look what we did for nothing. Imagine what we could do for something. And then also, some have just gone through different distribution methods. I've had people on here who've gotten it on every single thing you can think of, Xbox, PlayStation, Comcast, etc. And then, you know, obviously, you know, everyone has different experiences with all that. And I think you know, knowing where it's going to go, and knowing what your plan is before you start to do this, and knowing what the audience is going to be and where they are, it's all that is so critical nowadays.

Ethan Marten 1:14:58
Yeah, it also helps to. So do you have to make money? Have you spent every last dime? Are you totally broke as a result? Or, you know, do you have a bottomless, bottomless pockets? You know, if your bottom line is, I got a story to tell, and I want to tell it, and now I just want people to see it, you're going to measure success differently than somebody who's got to make their money back or else. And so know why you're making this motion picture, this movie, before you make it. Don't do it for the fame guys. Don't do it because you want to be famous. Do it because you have to tell this story, or you don't know what you're going to do with yourself. You know, become an actor, because it's in your for anything else. If you're doing it for the fame, you know you're lost. You're lost. One out of a million of you are going to make it. So do it because you love it. Make your movie because you love this story, and you just have to tell that motion picture, then the rest is gravy.

Dave Bullis 1:16:13
I could not agree more Ethan I've experienced too many people who like the idea of becoming an actor or like the idea of becoming a filmmaker, but they don't actually like the process of it, because that process is a lot of hard work for whether you're an actor, writer, director, producer, it's all hard work, a lot of patience, a lot of timing, creating a network, creating a portfolio, and it just a lot of people just want that whole to be seen mentality. And I've talked about that too on the podcast with some of my past guests as well, where they're the heart's not in it, but the but the what the brain is, if you know what I mean, like they know they want this, but you know they don't want to actually have to pay for it.

Ethan Marten 1:16:52
Look, some of those people are going to, quote, unquote, make it, but they're the exception. And I don't know, you know, that just doesn't sound satisfying to me if you're not enjoying it. I mean, you know, if that's what you want to do, okay, but it's kind of like being stuck in a nine to five job. I mean, most actors I know, including myself, we're horrible at nine to five. It's a box that we just can't wait to break out of. So what would be extraordinary to me is somebody who doesn't like that creative field, and that feels like a box. I mean, you know, if you enjoy the nine to five world, and you just want that security, and you want a paycheck, be be happy there. And if you want a taste of film, then go finance some indie actor or producer to help them make their passion happen.

Dave Bullis 1:17:49
Yeah. And, you know, I know exactly where you're coming from too. Ethan, about, there's some people will make it and, you know, and you know, just, it's just sort of interesting to hear all these perspectives. You know what? I mean? That's at the end of the day. That's why I wanted one of the reasons why I started this podcast, also you mentioned nine to five, and I was, you know, people who know the history of this podcast. I started this podcast because I was passed over for a promotion at my nine to five job. That was right, those bastards. They passed me over. Let's get them. And you know, well, you know what they said to me, can you train their legs for you. Oh, believe me, the last, the last, I know people don't tempt me. Ethan, I there's one guy, I don't hold vendettas, but this one guy, oh man, he and I, he's he,

Ethan Marten 1:18:36
He, he's listening, and I hope he's got a good hideout.

Dave Bullis 1:18:39
Oh, well, I actually, if he ever is listening, I would love him to get in contact with me. Because honestly, me and this guy, the last meeting we ever had with each other, we actually just told each other what we really think of one another. And yeah, it was like, I've never in all of my life, of all 30 years that I've been on this planet, Ethan, I have never thought that a boss and myself were going to get into a fist fight me and this guy. I really thought I was going to lay this guy out. I honestly lot of hatred for this guy, a lot,

Ethan Marten 1:19:16
and those were the good feelings.

Dave Bullis 1:19:19
You're not kidding, man. You're one.

Ethan Marten 1:19:20
But you know what he did you the greatest favor, he set you free. He set you on your course.

Dave Bullis 1:19:26
So basically, what happened was, you know, two years ago, actually, three years ago now, 2014 I got passed over for a promotion that was rightfully mine, and he gave it to somebody else. And then that guy left, and then they wouldn't give me the job anyway, and then finally he and I just started having it out. And I have the crazy stories I have from that place nobody would ever believe it. And you know, it's just that's what was killing me. And I wanted to do more film stuff. And it was like every time I was trying to get out that door, I couldn't get you know, I have friends who do indie films like Dave, we could use you. Okay, great. But you know, what do you want me to do? Oh, you want me to make another project that's never going to get seen. Because what happens Ethan is, I make a lot. I used to be very, very active in this Philadelphia area scene. A lot of these projects would get halfway done or get all the way done, and then nobody would ever see it. It would sit on some guy's hard drive, or would sit in mini DV tapes in some guy's shelf. And it became very, very frustrating, you know what I mean? So yes, it was sort of like this ebb and flow. And now, you know, now with this podcast, I made this my outlet, and I also wanted to make a free film school at the same time, because I didn't go to school for film I, I was an idiot. Went to school for business and so, so yeah, you know, it's kind of like a free film school, not only for me, but for everybody else as well, if you know what I mean,

Ethan Marten 1:20:56
Yes, I do. And the best film school there is, is making motion pictures and getting on other people's sets.

Dave Bullis 1:21:03
Yes, yes, it is so Ethan, I know we've been talking for about, you know, an hour 15 ish, roughly,

Ethan Marten 1:21:09
It only felt like an hour 10, maybe an hour six, even, it was great. Oh, thank you. You're very welcome. So has it really been an hour of 15?

Dave Bullis 1:21:21
Yeah, it really has. Sorry, listeners, I just wanted to ask you in closing, Ethan we talked about so much.

Ethan Marten 1:21:27
Oh, you're getting rid of me, huh? Okay, fine. See if I care. Go ahead. Where's this guy? I want to talk to him now. Now I see why he almost took you down. Okay, here I tell you what. I'll tell you one of my story is about nine to five, and then you can ask your final question, get rid of me. I had an employer, let's say who it was, radio station. And they originally hired me because I thought I was an out of the box kind of thinker. And, you know, I was a little different, little quirky, and you know, it was creative, great, and they spent the entire time trying to stick me in the box. They loved the creativity, but they didn't want me to be creative, which I found very stifling. And the my boss was a bit of a yeller. Call her Old Yeller. So one day I'm in her office, and she's keening at me, screaming about something. And it started as just loud talk, and then it got into screaming, and without saying a word, because I'm just sitting there, you know, going, This can't be happening, but it was so I'm looking around the room while she's yelling at me, and I noticed she's got that Dale Carnegie diploma on her wall. Now you remember Dale Carnegie had Win Friends and Influence People? Oh, yeah, right. So she was a grad Carnegie course. So I just stood up, walked around her desk, while she's yelling at me, and she's screaming at me, wondering what the hell I'm doing, and I just lift the diploma off her wall, and I gently lay it in front of her, and I say, I think you need a refresher course. And I walked out of the office while the screams got louder and louder. That was that pretty much summed up my nine to five experience. It's us against them. Yeah, I obviously did not belong in that nine to five world, what's your last question? Well, my last question, Ethan, I was, time's up. I think it's an hour and 16 minutes now you blew it, Dave, you could have all right, no, no, no, go ahead.

Dave Bullis 1:23:35
No. I was gonna say was Ethan. I think that sums up my my final question was, yeah, is, you know, is there, is there anything that we didn't get a chance to talk about they may wanted to talk about, or is there anything that you wanted to say to sort of put a period in this whole conversation. But I think that nine to five story kind of put a, put a very nice sum up of the whole conversation. But unless you, unless you wanted to throw something else out there?

Ethan Marten 1:23:58
Well, there is just one other project that I'm currently working on the I want to bring to people's attention, in addition to eyes of the Roshi, which you know, is everything from dark comedy to a bit of a splatter fest, on the other end of the spectrum, I have a documentary about Native American wisdom called White Buffalo an American and that has been an incredible passion project that my brothers and I have been working on since 1994 and that'll be finished by the end of this year. So again, I say to all the filmmakers who are participating in this podcast. Do it because you love it, because you may be married to your project for more years than you can imagine. So make it a happy marriage.

Dave Bullis 1:24:52
And that sounds like not an amazing project, Ethan, but that is a an amazing way to sort of sum up this whole conversation. Is you have to love it

Ethan Marten 1:25:01
Beautiful. I love this

Dave Bullis 1:25:04
And Ethan I wanted to ask, Where can we all find you out online?

Ethan Marten 1:25:08
Let's see various places. I have a website, Ethan martin.com, and I spell my name a little strangely. It's Ethan E T, H, A N, Marten, M, A, R T, E N.com, and from there, you can hit the Facebooks for eyes of the Roshi, for actor, producer, activist. That's me for White Buffalo and American prophecy. And then, of course, the Twitter and the Instagram and the trailers are online, and I think I inundated you with links, so if you want to share any of those, you go right ahead and on my website, your readers may be interested in a backstory that I tell about my father and his getting The distribution for plan Nine from Outer Space, the worst movie of all time.

Dave Bullis 1:26:06
You know, I was just talking about plan nine from last night, by the way, you were with who? Friends of mine. Here's an interesting little tidbit about plan nine. Okay, I actually became friends with, Oh God, I'm blanking on his name right now, he was one of the officers in the movie, okay, I forget what his name is. I can't believe I'm blanking on this. But anyways, he ended we he and I ended up talking for a while over the phone. This is before I made the podcast. And now he's actually the last surviving member of plan nine. Oh, really, yeah, he's at the because everybody else now has passed away, but he is the last person I can't remember. I'm sorry. I'm dropped blank on his name, but, but, no, it's just interesting, because I was talking to people about that, and I have his autograph. I'm actually rearranging my office right now, and I have a lot of stuff, but I was just talking about that because people brought it up, and I was just saying, you know, hey, you know, by the way, I, I know this is the little story about that guy, so video he it's just, it's always, all this stuff is interesting to me, all of it, it's just, you know, who knows who, who started what? It's just, it's very interesting to see all these different perspectives Exactly. And I will also link to all of your your social media stuff in the show notes. By the way, Ethan, by the way, your social media is on point. You know that one retweet. I just got a ton of people retweeting that same thing and favoring it. So we also have a mutual friend. By the way, I forgot to mention Kevin Tan,

Ethan Marten 1:27:29
Oh sure, he was one of the actors in Roshi, yep. And he actually, we have two really good friends, because I think that's the reason why you discovered eyes of the Roshi Carolyn, sames, yes, yes, we do. God bless her. She's our our Twitter, our Twitter queen,

Dave Bullis 1:27:48
Yeah, she actually recommended I talk to you.

Ethan Marten 1:27:51
Well, God, God bless her for that, because she has been quite a friend to a lot of indie films. Yeah, it's her and Francis Motley. Just these. These are people who just, you know, they just love indie film, and they have been, they have been angels to a lot of the indie filmmakers out there. I don't think I would have achieved the cult status that Roshi is starting to achieve without their efforts. So thank you to them as well. But how do you know Kevin?

Dave Bullis 1:28:22
Kevin and I met years ago, and I forget where we met at but we became friends on became we reconnected on Facebook, and then we started talking again and again, here and there, but that's how we know each other. Because I remember he was always on in Philadelphia again, bringing all back full circle, and he gets punched in the gut by MAC when he's choking on, I forget a piece of food as they're in Chinatown.

Ethan Marten 1:28:46
Perfect. Was there a Johnny Alonso connection with Kevin by any chance?

Dave Bullis 1:28:50
There was not okay? But it's, again, it's all about networking, right? You never know who knows who That's right? Ethan Marten, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the show, sir.

Ethan Marten 1:29:01
Well, if you want to, you can go ahead say good night, Gracie. You're welcome, and thank you, Dave, it was a lot of fun.

Dave Bullis 1:29:12
Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure at all. I was actually gonna say, I was actually gonna mention the what was it? Who used to say that good night, Mrs.

Ethan Marten 1:29:20
Wherever. Calabash, wherever you are. Yes, they that would be Jimmy Durante, for some reason. Are you young folks?

Dave Bullis 1:29:35
I keep thinking of Red Skelton, and I was like, that's not it. That's not right.

Ethan Marten 1:29:35
But there you go. So there's a lot of you know, listen, you can edit this and you can say it's just like, Jimmy Durante, good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are,

Dave Bullis 1:29:42
Yeah, and then there will be no one will be the wiser. That's right. Ethan, I want to say, best of luck. And again, thanks for coming on, and I will talk to you very, very soon.

Ethan Marten 1:29:52
I'm looking forward to it. Take care, Dave.