IFH 150: How to Launch Your Indie Film on iTunes with Brad Raider

Alex Ferrari 2:03
So today's guest not only has one of the coolest names ever, but a great story about how he made his movie, and more importantly, how he is distributing it through iTunes in his marketing plan and how he got it up there and what he used and all that good stuff. So today's guest is Writer Director,Brad Raider. He's also an actor, and he made an amazing little film called Ken show at the bedfellow. I know it's a very marketable name. We actually joke about that in the episode, but he's actually doing very well it's done very well at the festival circuit. And now he launched it on iTunes and is also doing pretty well on it. So I wanted to bring this story to you guys. So you guys could see how a movie can be made in the independent world and also brought all the way through to iTunes and how he's marketing it. And he has no major marquee stars in the movie as great actors. But note marquee stars to distributors are going to be jumping all over and we talk a little bit about that as well in the episode. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with Brad Raider. I'd like to welcome to the show, Brad Raider. How you doing, man?

Brad Raider 4:19
Great, Alex, how are you doing?

Alex Ferrari 4:20
I'm doing great, man. I'm doing great. By the way you have an amazing voiceover voice. I'm assuming you do some voiceover work as well.

Brad Raider 4:27
You know, I haven't really gotten into it as much. Although I recently did something. This little series of industrials for Disney. Where, you know I kind of play this mission character that is warning all of the employees of Disney worldwide about Content Protection. And I recently heard they're going to animate the character so I'll finally get to do my my voiceover for that.

Alex Ferrari 4:55
Dude, I'm telling you, it's you know, as well as I do. It's it. That's easy. The easiest money The industry. It's true. It's such easy money. I mean, you just go in you record your voice. I mean, you kind of it's, I don't want to say it's like, super easy in the sense, like anyone could do it. But if you can get the work and you actually have a talent for it, my God, it's great.

Brad Raider 5:15
Yeah, it's good work if you can get and I've got a lot of buddies who really they entered into the industry via the commercial and voiceover arena. And right there, they're doing just fine.

Alex Ferrari 5:29
Just distant. Anyway. Sorry, audience we kind of got off on a tangent there.

Brad Raider 5:34
But I'm sure there will be many more tangents to come. Yes, exactly.

Alex Ferrari 5:37
But so a Brad, Brad is an actor, a director, producer, a million other things. But before we even get started in everything, how did you get into the film business in general?

Brad Raider 5:51
Well, you know, I've had a life long love affair with movies. I mean, my entire life. My my childhood room was just covered in movie posters, diehard and Star Wars, Raiders, the Lost Ark, and all of the films of the 70s and 80s, that most of us kind of, were inspired by and got us into the industry in the first place. And you know, as a kid, I would make little movies with friends. And it's so it's summer camp. In fact, recently, there's a Facebook page for this arts camp that I went to called Long Lake, and someone on Earth. This, this, this film we made based on Raiders of the Lost Ark. And I had Ron deck Jones. You know, I was 18 years old, I had braces. But I wore the fedora and this oversized leather jacket. And it's super fun to kind of see all of that stuff and see the journey, especially in light of my feature, which is just releasing. I've kind of been doing this a long time.

Alex Ferrari 6:59
You know what it's, it's, I mean, you and I are both similar vintages. So we, it's true. When we get to this kind of point in our life, we kind of look back and go, Well, shit I've done. I've done a bunch of stuff. I've been doing this for a while.

Brad Raider 7:14
Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's kind of like, I like to think about it as a really choiceless type of thing when you're an artist. Yeah, kind of like, I've got no other choice. I am compelled and obsessed. doing this kind of work?

Alex Ferrari 7:33
Is it me? I mean, I've said this on the show a bunch of times, I've tried to jump off this ship. Because it's such a hard journey. I mean, it's, it's brutal. It's absolutely, and as an actor, I cannot even imagine what you guys go through. It's even more brutal than for the other side of the camera. So

Brad Raider 7:50
I this time I try to get out they pull me.

Alex Ferrari 7:53
Right, exactly. It's like a certain point. Like, I've tried to jump off and I'm like, I just, what else am I gonna do? Yeah, it's so I'm assuming that's similar for you. Like, have you had those moments of you know, those, you know, Jesus moments, you guess? Like, I gotta get out of this? And then other times? And just like, oh, what the hell am I gonna do go get a real job?

Brad Raider 8:14
Yeah, you know, there's so many ups and downs, not just as an actor, but you know, any artist, I think, really questions, why they're in it, if they want to kind of stick with it for the long haul. And, you know, going off into the wilderness and, and becoming a meditation teacher for a couple years, certainly was an opportunity to explore other areas, and I never really gave it up. I just kind of went on hiatus for a bit. And it's amazing to look back now on how that journey especially catalyzed this film, and how I was kind of trying to make it and get it off the ground for years. It wasn't until I just kind of stepped back and focused on something else. I was been able to return and just hit the ground running.

Alex Ferrari 9:14
You know what, and it's so funny you say that because you went off to the forest to meditate. I opened up a gourmet shop in Studio City. I love it. And that was my meditation for three years, which I had my foot still in the business but exactly exactly what you just said you like you gave me a moment to kind of go back and then when I came back in, I came back with you know, hit the ground running. And I guess, I guess I'm assuming it was pretty similar in timeframe as well. When you were when you were off in the forest, I was selling olive oil. Yeah. Yours is much cooler.

Brad Raider 9:51
It's it's, it's so interesting, and in a way you just kind of sparked an idea which it relates you In the microcosm as well, of the day to day activity of an artist or filmmaker, because meditation especially, or really any practice that someone has to kind of cultivate presence of mind and peace of mind and creativity and adaptation, energy, what is it other than stepping away from your day, you know, for 10 or 15 or 20 minutes, and re energizing yourself, kind of plugging into the wall and re inspiring. Your equanimity. So, I like to look at practices like that, too. Because this, this gig can be so stressful. And as filmmakers, especially we can we have the capacity to just work non stop.

Alex Ferrari 10:58
And this is a passion, it's obsession. That's why Yeah,

Brad Raider 11:01
and it's a it's a really good recipe to get burnt out. So you have to have this mechanism by which you can step away, and then return. You know, it's like, it's this vacillation of working intensely and that resting intensely.

Alex Ferrari 11:22
Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's just because I think we, because we're so obsessed, that people, I think a lot of times take advantage of us, as filmmakers and artists, because we're always obsessed with like, although work for free, or they'll, they'll kill themselves because they just want to be on the project or something like that.

Brad Raider 11:42
Right. You're in the distribution landscape, which I'm

Alex Ferrari 11:45
Oh, well, we will get into that. Oh, we will get into the distribution lines there. Yeah. Oh, don't worry. And you also went to NYU. Tisch School for School for the Arts, right?

Brad Raider 11:54
Yeah, I was at NYU. And it was an amazing experience on so many levels, not least of which, because of the colleagues that I met there. Some of whom, I'm sure you know, I mean, we we've got so many friends in common, it was actually

Alex Ferrari 12:12
kind of crazy when you were when you rattled off a bunch of people and our first few emails together, I was like, Jesus, man, how do we not know each other?

Brad Raider 12:22
I mean, you know, the, one of my closest friends and collaborators from NYU is a kid named James row de, who's another multi hyphenate, actor, director. He started on a show called psych for many years. Yeah. You know, he and I run a theatre company out here. And there's certainly a lot of amazing actors that have stayed in the business I met at school, some of whom are in kensho, in the movie that I just made, but also on the filmmaking side. You know, I was in school with Kyle Newman, and Brad Firman. A whole bunch of guys that are and girls who were working in the industry, and I'm so happy that they stuck with it, because there's just a tremendous amount of top talent that comes out of these schools. But as you know, the industry just kind of beat you up a bit.

Alex Ferrari 13:23
Not a bit, my friend it is it's like walking into a fight with Mayweather and, and you haven't worked out in 20 years, or ever thrown a punch. It is and you know, I hate to use the term, I hate to use that kind of terminology, but it is like you're in the trenches and, and all this kind of stuff is because it's true. It is it is kind of a brutal business. And I think nowadays, even more so because then when you and I were coming up, it was not nearly as competitive as it is now. I mean, now everybody's a filmmaker, and everyone's an actor, and everyone's got a YouTube page, and everyone's got an Instagram with a million followers. And it's a completely different world where we were on the edge. We weren't old. We're not old school. We're not like 70s at filmmakers. We were growing up in that time watching those guys. So you know, we're more 90s and early 2000 kind of filmmakers, where we had one foot in the old school and one foot in the new school, we're that we're generation, that's a hybrid. We didn't grow up with all that technology and all that access, but we understood it. And we also understood what it was like not to have that. So like, when I graduated college, I hadn't even had a habit. They didn't even have an avid in there yet. I was it was nonlinear editing systems. Yes. But an avid wasn't even there yet. So it was just on the cusp. So

Brad Raider 14:46
I mean, when we were making our little videos as kids, we would hook up our two VCRs Oh yeah. There's always that like, three and a half second delay.

Alex Ferrari 15:00
Oh yeah,

Brad Raider 15:01
you had to factor in when you were editing. Yeah, hit record and

Alex Ferrari 15:05
play and but were you but you were you like a high end VHS editor? Did you use a composite or component cable?

Brad Raider 15:11
Oh, well, you know, I graduated from VHS to s VHS, holy cow s VHS. And then, you know, when there was the optical audio input that was all the Holy cow. And then I really splurge, when mini DV came out, I thought stop. Yeah, I found a deck that was and I still have it at my parents house. One side was VHS, and the other side was mini DV. And I was like, Oh my god, I can actually transfer from VHS to mini DV. It's,

Alex Ferrari 15:47
it's I know, everybody listening that was like, wow, these guys are old. But yes, yes, let's we'll go back down memory lane. And at least we're not talking about a track in VEDA at this point, right, though beta is actually better than VHS. But so let me ask you as an actor, because you've worn both hats as an actor, and as a director, what do you look for? When you're acting in a director?

Brad Raider 16:14
That's a great question. You know, you really want a collaborator. And everybody's after the same thing, we're trying to capture the truth. And I think a lot of times, it depends on the project itself. I mean, in some cases, you want a level of trust, so that the director will will let the actor experiment, right, because the director always is going to have an opinion. But when he or she is collaborative enough to kind of let the actor run with it for a bit, and then potentially steer him or her in another direction, that's always helpful, because then you can kind of get more on the table and more ideas flowing. Even if it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily mean improvising. But there's so many different ways a scene can go. And the more that a director can articulate what the vision is, and what the tone is, especially, this is a this is really important point, like understanding what the tone globally of the project is. But also what the tone of each individual scene is, and, and how it fits into the larger context of what the film is trying to do. So those are some kind of broad strokes, and then, you know, onset. It's, it's all about communication. And I think trust, and actors really want to know, that they're being taken care of, and that they're being protected, and they're able to relax and feel free and creative. Because when an actor feels just nervous, or doesn't quite understand, you know, what is trying to be achieved? It just, it just mucks up the creative process.

Alex Ferrari 18:36
Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of times directors don't, I mean, directors and filmmakers don't realize that actors are putting themselves out there in a very raw way if they're doing it right to find that truth and they're exposing themselves and if they feel that there's arrows being tossed at them left and right, they're gonna shut down and put the defenses up. But if that's true, but if they feel the director is creating a safe space for them to be able to do that where nothing is going to happen to them and they can freely play in that sandbox at the directors kind of put the directors the wall from everybody else around you and then then you guys can kind of play I think that's what makes a great collaboration Do you agree?

Brad Raider 19:18
Mm hmm Absolutely. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 19:21
Now what now What did you What did you Why did you want to direct I mean it's crazy

Brad Raider 19:27
it's not it's absolutely not the easiest thing that you decide to do. You know, I I had been working on this project can show it the bed pillow for many years. And there was a big learning curve in terms of writing the project. I'd never written a screenplay before. I had made at that point, four or five films, including Spring Break lawyer, which was my first feature. MTV, you know, where I played a kid who gets kicked out of law school and then goes down to spring break and represents all the kids that that can get

Alex Ferrari 20:07
trouble. Did you direct Did you direct out? Or did you just start?

Brad Raider 20:11
It was my first movie, you know, made for TV show. really silly comedy. But, you know, I was, I had made a few of those a few smaller films, and I really wanted to write something. as a vehicle for myself as an actor, you know that some of the TV work that I had done, had plateaued. That was kind of my bread and butter for a while. TV pilots and canceled shows, and any working class actor out here will will just have, you know, a battlefield full of failed, of course, of course. So I had been working on kensho for a long time, and I didn't think that I would direct it. But I quickly learned that nobody. But as I would, and I had a bunch of friends who had directed they're their own projects, and they really encouraged me to do so. And I said, you know, throw my hat in the ring, and I'm so glad I did. I mean, I, I really got got the bug. And it was an incredible experience, although not without its challenges.

Alex Ferrari 21:34
I would, I would expect so sir.

Brad Raider 21:38
You know, we all did on the project. We shot the thing for, you know, a micro budget of a $200,000 movie. And so many of the kind of tricks of the trade that we incorporated. You know, I took Stoller off class, and

Alex Ferrari 21:57
sure marks are a friend of the show, a friend of the show, no budget film school,

Brad Raider 22:01
Tom Provost, and, you know, all those guys really helped this journey. But in addition to all of their tactics, whether it's shooting in locations, of course that you have, and we went for broke, I mean, we, we just, we shot in 35 locations all over Manhattan. And we can certainly get into kind of how we, we stole

Alex Ferrari 22:27
you stole all of them. Gotcha. Well, yeah. I

Brad Raider 22:29
mean, a lot of them came from the meditation community, which is they talk about, you know, working with your tribe and having your tribe as your audience and know, yeah, becoming a meditator. This was my tribe. And I found that there were a lot of meditators who were part of these amazing organizations and institutions and you know, the guy that created the Highline is a meditator and said, Hey, listen you know we're making this movie can we shoot on the Highline? And same happened with the Rubin museum where we shot for a day

Alex Ferrari 23:09
Yeah, I saw that I saw the trailer I mean it looks really I'm surprised it was so it's such a low budget because you have a lot of production value. And the whoever was your dp did a decent job. I mean, really good job.

Brad Raider 23:20
It looks good. David Rodriguez is fantastic and he's he's a longtime collaborator, also a meditator you know, we were we were all meditating on set my dp and Blake Brewer my first ad who was also my lead producer, and that was another way we got away with all that we did because it wasn't just me wearing multiple hats. You know, having your first ad know, everything that a producer knows is incredibly helpful. I mean, he was just he was my right hand on the set the whole time. And so you know, infusing the thing with a level of consciousness by either taking time out on set to meditate, just having a supremely calm, efficient environment where a lot of the crew members were just super chill and like Energizer bunnies. That's how we were able to shoot 29 days wow, you know, 35 locations in two cities and 40 speaking roles,

Alex Ferrari 24:32
Jesus crime on paper, this is a lunacy

Brad Raider 24:37
and you know, I think Sebastian who also you know,

Alex Ferrari 24:43
yes, friend, friend of the show.

Brad Raider 24:46
Sebastian is also a meditator, of course and a student. He, I think, originally read the script, along with some others and that you know, you're nuts. You need to cut that at least 20 pages that

Alex Ferrari 25:01
sounds exactly what Sebastian would say. Because he's called Yeah, he's called me nuts multiple times.

Brad Raider 25:05
Yeah. Get rid of 20 characters and at least 20 locations. And it may have been naivete on my part. We're just hubris to think that we can pull it off. And it wasn't easy. But

Alex Ferrari 25:25
I think it you know, with that kind of, I mean, look, I get conned, I constantly get told you can't do that. Or you can't do that. And it was similar to what Robert Rodriguez and while I always go back to Roberts, one of my idols, and everyone's like, you can't shoot an action movie, you know, studio action movie for 7 million bucks. Well, he did. And you know, and it made it look like it was a 30 or $40 million movie. And it's until you're able to continuously break that mold till people will just go Oh, it's it's him. He could do that. Or it's her she could do that, because she's done it multiple times prior. Mark duplass for God's sakes. And what they do are Joe Swanberg. You know, you can't direct six feature films in one year. Well, yes, he did. Yeah. You know, so you can do that. It's just it's it's all about breaking that mold. But what that said there is a Would you agree to have a kind of strategic stupidity in doing certain things so like you got to be smart about when you're gonna go jump off that clip, be strategic about it, and make sure you're not just going in there like, I've never been on a Clift I've never jumped before, you know, you me You obviously been around, you've been in movies for a while you've been an actress, you've been on set. So you weren't just literally Fresh Off the Boat when you attempted to do this. So I want to make sure everybody understands that you are a seasoned pro in a lot of other avenues of the business. But this was your first venture into this kind of business, this.

Brad Raider 26:51
I mean, I really wanted to surround myself with the best people that I can find. And when you're working at a price, oftentimes that means interview, interviewing and finding kids who really haven't had as much experience as you have. I mean, my production designer, this was her first feature. But she had apprenticed a very well known production designer, and she was ready, she was hungry. Mm hmm. You know, and so you, you really have to make educated decisions when you're working with such a little money. But you're right, that it's preparation is everything, you know, you've got your preparation, and your execution, you can prepare, including, and it's not just writing out your shot list. And this is why meditation has been so important for me as an artist, because you are prepping your nervous system, and your consciousness band, and your mind and body to dive in with abandon and be able to execute a lot in a short amount of time. And be highly accurate, right, and also stay calm under pressure. There's something called the tripartite performance variable, that

Alex Ferrari 28:29
is a very, very, very, it just rolls off the tongue. It was

Brad Raider 28:33
a study done on meditation. And this is something that went way up in meditators. It's like, if you've got an archer, for example, can she be accurate and hit that Bullseye, right? Eight times out of 10? You add the second variable can she do so? Very, very quickly, shift that bull's eye and do it fast. And then the third variable, can she hit that Bullseye quickly and stay completely cool. This is the tripartite performance variable. So you know, you put that in the context of a filmmaker, right? Where you've got to shoot 910 12 pages in a day, right? And not freak out when something goes awry, which it always will

Alex Ferrari 29:21
every day, of course. It's just it's called nature and human and human nature. Both of those things combined, not a good not a good thing.

Brad Raider 29:30
Yeah. And so you know, preparing becomes everything. There's there's a reason why the most famous book for actors is an actor prepares it's 90% preparation so that when you get to that set, and this is the case for a director as well, who has a plan, you get to that set, and you've prepared so much, that you can just play you know, you're Just in the flow, creating and playing, you've got your plan in the back of your head and the shot list and, and the schedule. But you're able to bob and weave and just kind of play around with the actors and with the technicians and get what you need but also get a ton of stuff that you never expected.

Alex Ferrari 30:20
Yeah, it's always fascinating to me like how, like the duplass brothers and Lynne Shelton and Joe Swanberg. They do their movies, because they, I know from studying them that they they do prepare, and they have a very structured script, but they kind of just show up and just kind of flow with whatever happens. Whether that be in production, whether that be in the actress performance, whether that be in the the improv of it all. And, you know, I kind of went through that with my first feature. This is Meg. And it's interesting, because I showed my movie to some very established directors, and they're like, I could never do that. Like, that's scary as hell to me. Like, I can't not show up and not know what's gonna happen that day. But there is something very freeing about that. Do you agree?

Brad Raider 31:12
I do. I do. I think you want both things, right? Like you want to be prepared. You know, and be as obsessive as you want to be, in knowing what you need to get to tell the story, right? But there's so much magic that happens in the moment. And so many happy accidents, you know, you're gonna get to set and you're gonna lose that location, you've got to

Alex Ferrari 31:44
or it's gonna rain or the power's out, or someone may show up.

Brad Raider 31:49
You gotta be ready to shoot the thing that you were planning on shooting in that, you know, a museum, you got to be ready to shoot it in the in the alley. Right? If you have to. Yep, pretty much. So I think I think holding both things. That Yin Yang, really is, is key preparation, but also the nimbleness and adaptability of the present moment.

Alex Ferrari 32:23
Yeah, that which is kind of, I think half of what Hitchcock used to do. Hitchcock used to be obviously the ones most prepared directors of all time. And and Ben, but he would not flow on set like it had to be by the numbers ABC. But he was also a master what he was constructing. So it's, I guess it's a different style for every kind of filmmaker and artist in general. Yeah, sure. Now, it's pronounced the name of your filming it can show can show at the bedfellow. So obviously, very marketable name.

Brad Raider 32:57
I mean, it's always kind of a song and dance when I'm explained goes something like this kensho is a Zen Buddhist term that means awakening. Can is to see and show means one's truest nature. So it translates as seeing one's truest nature, or to awaken the bedfellow is a fictional Hotel in Tribeca. So we shot in and around the Dwayne street hotel, which is a real Hotel in Tribeca. And we made it into the bed, cielo hotel and you know, built a sign and kind of put it over the signage of the Duane Street and it looks fantastic. My art department did an amazing job. So it's an existential drama, about a guy searching for fulfillment in all the wrong places. That's the logline. And it's been an odyssey for my, my main character, he goes through an odyssey himself, but making the thing

Alex Ferrari 34:11
well, when was the film finished? It's been fun. It was finished a while ago, right?

Brad Raider 34:14
Well, we shot in 2013. Okay. In the fall of 2013, so 25 days in New York, and then we promptly ran out of money.

Alex Ferrari 34:27
How did you finance it? By the way, how did you finance it

Brad Raider 34:30
all in all independent financing? Okay, all individual investors, friends and family got this and

Alex Ferrari 34:40
old school Got it? That's cool. Edward style Edward style. Got it.

Brad Raider 34:44
Right. Enough to shoot. Yes. And we the plan was always to do the crowdfunding campaign, which I certainly have opinions about, and I think there's a level of fatigue at this point. With those types of campaigns, but the idea was to raise our through Indiegogo. And so in the spring, or a few months after we shot in New York, that's when we launched the campaign. So we raised a little bit more money to not only shoot for more day, but some more dough for post production, then we were in post all of 2014.

Alex Ferrari 35:32
Why? Why was it so long? Well,

Brad Raider 35:36
there were a couple of reasons. One was, we have some extensive special effects. Got another kind of thing that they say, you know, don't Don't do that. Don't use special effects. Don't use kids or dogs, or did animal all of which I threw into the mix. Sure, why not? Why not? You know, I also opted for a completely original score. I opted for something like nine needle drops. You know, music Oh, Jesus. I did a 5.1 surround mixture with Odin Benny Dez who is also a student and a meditator and he brought in his whole sound team should we mix that Formosa we next on the stage where they mixed The Godfather Sure, I mean why not? And why I went for broke with this

Alex Ferrari 36:36
no no you swung for the fences It sounds like you're swinging for the fences on this Yeah.

Brad Raider 36:40
So the post production process was very long there was a lot of ADR we had to do because shooting in New York is always tough. And then we hit the festival circuit in 2015. And you know, we played six festivals we want to best feature awards nice and these are all kind of like niche festivals like conscious cinema, which is a term that has been coined in in recent years for for movies that are spiritual in nature or kind of examine human consciousness and are hopeful and inspirational but not necessarily documentary documentaries and not necessarily faith based

Alex Ferrari 37:28
what is the What's that one? Oh god the that really famous one that down No, the download down the down the rabbit hole, but it's not down the rabbit hole is the other one with Mira, merrily, Mark. Gosh, oh,

Brad Raider 37:44
Marlee? Matlin?

Alex Ferrari 37:45
Yes, her Do you know what I'm talking about?

Brad Raider 37:47
Yeah, I can't claim that

Alex Ferrari 37:48
either. But that movie is the that would be the hack. She worked on it to dammit. But anyway, that one is a very, that's a good example of conscious filmmaking, which is it's not spirit. It's spiritual, but not faith based or religion based, but it is examines life a little bit.

Brad Raider 38:06
Right, right, which, you know, one could argue, well, all films do that in a way. But this, this kind of movement, which I'm happy to be a part of, is, is really interesting. I think it's gaining traction. You know, we started at the illuminate film festival with a program they had called the conscious cinema accelerator. Which, you know, takes a bunch of these films in different stages of development, different stages of the process, and just helps them find an audience and there's kind of a mentorship program. So it's a it's a really cool community of filmmakers who were, I think, trying to say something with the attention that they have of an audience. Oh, by the

Alex Ferrari 39:00
way, the movies What the Bleep Do you know?

Brad Raider 39:02
What the Bleep do we know?

Alex Ferrari 39:04
Sorry, I had to do it had to do it.

Brad Raider 39:06
Which Yeah, it's a great example of a film that has similar content that really took off although, you know, they're, they're a doc, and we're a narrative feature, something that Tom shadyac said, that I really gravitated towards, he's like, Listen, you know, if you're going to make us a quote, unquote, spiritual or conscious movie, and, you know, it's a narrative. It's got to be exciting. It's got to be sexy. It's got to be entertaining. And I really ran with that. I wanted this I wanted kensho to be just as exciting and as entertaining, as it was potentially enlightening and inspiring.

Alex Ferrari 39:57
And from what I read you I think you've achieved That. So that's good. So you went through the festival circuit for what two years,

Brad Raider 40:05
went through the festival circuit for we started late summer, early fall of 2015. Through 2016. So our last festival was last fall. And then we had a special screening at the Rubin museum where we shot for a day. And that was kind of our last public screening, although, who knows, you know, we got, of course, but at that point, you know, and I had been kind of looking and trying to navigate the distribution landscape, which was depressing.

Alex Ferrari 40:40
Yes, I saw. That was why I was I was asking this Hold on, that's what I'm leaning towards. I wanted to get, I wanted to see what your experience is selling a spiritual style film, what some excitement and some action with no marquee names in it. And I just love to hear what distributors had to tell you. So everybody listening could understand what I preach about on a constant basis.

Brad Raider 41:09
Yeah, no, you're you've been dead on what you've said, and what other colleagues have said, it basically comes down to, you know, if you don't play those top five or six festivals, and even if you do, no, does it Yes. Still still, I mean, there, there are plenty of films that play Sundance that don't get a sale,

Alex Ferrari 41:35
or, or even get any major distribution or even self distribution. Sometimes it's it's right, yeah. But it helps it helps if you're in those five. Yeah, yeah.

Brad Raider 41:45
And there's certainly an idea that, although this could be debated vigorously, that audiences only want to gravitate towards films with actors that they know or they've seen before, which is not really true,

Alex Ferrari 42:05
not. And I'll agree with you on that. It's not as true as it used to be if you're going down a niche market. If you're trying to do mass appeal, that's probably not the same, you probably do need somebody for a mass appeal movie, but for niche like this is this super niche? I think it wouldn't need it as much. I would agree with you on that.

Brad Raider 42:27
Right? So I got a lot of a lot of very positive feedback. And you know, we got we got close to Tribeca, the head of programming and tried backup, wrote me to tell me as much, which was the greatest rejection letter I've ever gotten. He's like, you guys were really close. Like, I'm great. Really, that's just like, you know, we debated you guys, the half of us wanted you to play the festival. And the other half were like, what is this? But you know, ultimately, distributors don't really care. And a lot of companies really dug the film, but just didn't feel like they could sell it based on the cachet of the festivals, we did play. And based on the actors. Now, that being said, I mean, my cast is full of Oh, yeah. Me and Tony, actors, you know, luminaries of the stage. Saw gaggia, who starred in failla is a Titan. And, you know, this guy puts in a performance that is as good as anything I've ever seen. Kaylee Ronayne, who is my co star, the heroine of the film, I think is going to be a huge star. And so we might get lucky in terms of really finding our audience once one of us gets a big TV show.

Alex Ferrari 44:05
Yeah, it's always Yeah. Yeah. But ultimately,

Brad Raider 44:09
it got to the point where it was frustrating, and I felt like I needed to move on with my life especially. So you know, I met Jason brew Baker.

Alex Ferrari 44:23
and friend of a friend of the show,

Brad Raider 44:26
guys over at the stripper Friends of the show.

Alex Ferrari 44:29
Oh my god, how do we not know everybody? Seriously how we have not on a coffee? Oh, my coffee. Seriously?

Brad Raider 44:35
It's so true.

Alex Ferrari 44:37
Did you reach out to Jason or did you just meet them on the on the, on the road somewhere?

Brad Raider 44:42
I ran into him a couple times I heard him speak about the stripper. And I and a couple of my other friends who who have indie films were kind of circling and I looked into it and it seemed to really make sense

Alex Ferrari 45:01
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Brad Raider 45:12
In terms of, okay, you know, they're going to act as the aggregator between the filmmaker and the platforms. Because let's face it, iTunes, and Netflix, they don't want to talk to filmmakers. They don't want to talk to the neurotic.

Alex Ferrari 45:27
Oh, God, can you imagine?

Brad Raider 45:33
So, you know, the plan became very clear and very intuitive. You know, let's get on to one platform. In our case, we released on iTunes now, two weeks ago. And you know, there was a big preamble, and a pre sale, and a lot of our grassroots marketing and social media efforts to launch the thing.

Alex Ferrari 45:58
So yeah, so let's go back for a second, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves. So what was the strategy launch into iTunes, because I'm literally going to be going down this path with Nick and distributor, as well. So I want everybody in the audience to kind of know what your strategy was with iTunes? And did you only launch on iTunes first, and then you're launching on other platforms? How did you do the pre sales? all that kind of good stuff?

Brad Raider 46:21
Yeah, it's a great question. And a great kind of mystery that we're trying to unravel it. So it's a little bit like the Wild West,

Alex Ferrari 46:33
was very much,

Brad Raider 46:36
what seemed the most intuitive was that, okay? There's one way you could go where you release on all of the platforms at once, and, or at least all of the platforms that don't have any curating system in place. In other words, your iTunes, your Hulu, one of the Amazon platforms, Google Play, all those kinds of Google Play Exactly. The idea being that you want to give people every opportunity to see it based on their particular preference. We opted to release solely on iTunes first, for a couple reasons. One of which, it seemed to have the most cachet, right? Everybody knows iTunes, it also has potentially the highest price point, for people who are really ready to go and buy the movie, the filmmaker stands to walk away with the most profit, you know, the split is 7030. It's great. And, and distributor, you know, takes an upfront fee per platform,

Alex Ferrari 47:53
which is not that which is not that much like 900 bucks, 800 900 bucks per platform, or you could buy a package of 10 for like four or five grams, something like that.

Brad Raider 48:00
That's right, it's a really good deal. And the idea was and is to get as much attention on iTunes and channel all of our focus and all of the eyeballs to just one place. You know, if you want to see this movie, and you didn't already see it on the festival circuit. And you weren't already owed a screener because you donated which, let's face it was a lot of people a lot of my friends out the film for free because they donated 25 bucks or more. So that I and that's another story like in terms of playing festivals and kind of blowing your wad a little bit by showcasing the movie to everybody, you know,

Alex Ferrari 48:51
don't do that. for free. Yeah, because, you

Brad Raider 48:56
know, we played LA and we played in New York, and a lot of my friends came to that, and they don't necessarily want to buy it again on iTunes. But anyway, right? The idea is channel all of that attention towards one platform. And the strategy is then to go after the subscription based services like Netflix and Amazon Prime, which do curate, and there is not a guarantee that indie filmmakers can get on those platforms. Even though for VOD, that seems to be the prize because that's where most of the eyeballs are. I think there are more people that would prefer to watch a movie on Netflix or Amazon Prime subscription services that they're already paying for. Then to go over to iTunes and put down 1299 or 1499 or even 399 to rent it. Right? Right. So all of that being considered deterred, and especially in light of trying to get Netflix's attention, we thought Alright, Let's release on iTunes first. And, you know, see what we can do there?

Alex Ferrari 50:16
And did you do a strategy to kind of do a lot of pre sales to kind of rev up the the placement that you are placed within your sub genre or even God forbid even get it ranked closer to the top 10 or 20 of the main page?

Brad Raider 50:30
Right? Yeah, that that is still the strategy. And I opted to do a month long presale period, which I'm really glad that that I did, hey, because you can kind of offer it at a discount. We offer the movie for 999 in pre sale. And now we're selling for 1499. You know, 1999, you've got one, that's actually an ad and yeah. So the the presale period allowed us to really kind of ramp up. And a lot of movies now whether it's release of billboards with the trailers, they have a good month of trying to get in your face. And so we use that month to really ramp up our social media presence and email newsletters and, you know, rally the troops and the cast and to kind of reach out to their networks, as well. A little hack that people should know is that all of those pre sales in the month before you go live on iTunes, apparently count towards the first day of sales. So that when you go live, it's as if in terms of the the algorithms that iTunes uses to kind of boost the title higher on people's lists. They're going to use those pre sales as kind of those first day sales. If you do like 100 pre sales. It looks as if to the algorithm that on day one, you've got 100 sales.

Alex Ferrari 52:18
So let me ask you a question. Are you could you share a little bit of rough numbers with us? So we kind of get an idea? Is that you feel comfortable with that?

Brad Raider 52:27
Yeah, yeah, sure. So we are we are in the hundreds? And we're trying to and you know, it's it's hard to tell exactly. Because it's it's subjective, or it seems so there isn't necessarily a formula for what iTunes is going to kind of pick up about. And like you need a certain number to kind of get on new and noteworthy or notable Indies, which for your listeners are two places that I think filmmakers can hope to reach or to, to get on that list. Because when users go onto iTunes to look for a film, there is literally an endless see movies in every genre. And on the kind of front Home Page of iTunes movies, there are certain sections, especially for Indies, that we have the opportunity to kind of be featured on. So it's hard to tell exactly what the threshold is that a filmmaker needs to reach by a certain amount of time. I think there are a lot of factors. Not least of which is what what's happening in the world and politically in the Zeitgeist. And I couldn't have planned this, but we we feature in kensho, among many other things, the refugee resettlement crisis. It's kind of like the beast storyline and the International Rescue Committee. Yeah, so then the trailer Yeah, yeah relocates refugees all over the world, including from Sudan, which is one of the six. Yeah, as part of the travel ban. Right, right. And so all of this is kind of happening while we're releasing the film, which was fortuitous. And I couldn't have planned, but something that I'm very passionate about. So we're also hoping that that some of that social relevance is interesting to somebody and might help us in in getting more exposure.

Alex Ferrari 54:57
So the it's on your first day did you get on any of those lists, because I saw an email, I got magically put on your email list. And I and I saw that you were ranked fairly high and you were with a bunch of it, what was the actual list that you were on in iTunes?

Brad Raider 55:15
You know, the, we haven't made it onto one of those premium lists. But there, you know, there was a little meme that I sent around, and certainly in that newsletter that I thought was just kind of cool. It's a film geek that we were listed in the independence section. And that, you know, that's a whole nother conversation, like films that are considered to be independent. Not really, yeah, you and I are independent filmmakers. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 55:45
you got 7 million plus a couple's major stars, and it's not independent anymore.

Brad Raider 55:50
Yeah. Even moonlight, which is an incredible movie, and it won the Academy Award.

Alex Ferrari 55:58
was a 1.5. Was I think it was 1.5. Right?

Brad Raider 56:01
Yeah. Our Oh, the budget.

Alex Ferrari 56:03
Yeah, I think it was about 1.5. If I'm, if that's the one number I've heard, it might be more.

Brad Raider 56:08
It might be more maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Is it really an independent movie? You know? Oh, he put up Brad Pitt. But

Alex Ferrari 56:18
is that Yeah, wasn't 1.5 it wasn't 1.5.

Brad Raider 56:21
Um, anyway, it was just cool. Last week, to kind of be listed next to Steve McQueen and Lars Von trir. And my buddy Todd shots. He's got a great movie called lazy. I was like, Oh, cool. You know, we're kind of in with these other really talented filmmakers that I admire. But yeah, they're there. There are a lot of movies, not only on iTunes, but everywhere. Now, competing with like you said, Instagram videos and videos.

Alex Ferrari 57:00
It's insane. It's insane. You've got to create a such that I think that's why a lot of people and a lot of filmmakers at this point, should be focusing on niches, as they say that the riches are in the niches. And it's, it's very true, because if that's the biggest mistake I think filmmakers make is they, they try to do a broad, broad action movie or broad market movie, and like, dude, you're not gonna make a dent. It's just, but if you focus on I always uses this example. Like, if I'm gonna make the vegan chef movie, like the vegan chef comedy, you know, romantic comedy. That's, that's what I'm making. There's, you can really niche that down and aim it at that demographic. Right? Yeah, exactly. As opposed to 18 through 25. Male like that, you're not gonna hit that. Or met or, or meditators? Like this is a movie about meditation, let's say, I know this, I don't think and kensho is not about that specifically, but but you know, you can easily aim it at that demographic.

Brad Raider 57:58
It's true. Yeah, I mean, we're not about meditation at all, but we are about consciousness and the nature of fulfillment, and life purpose. These are kind of big, some would say esoteric ideas, but they're ideas that people with a yoga practice or a meditation practice or are just interested in self development and kind of the nature of reality or what they're meant to be doing with their lives, you know, millennials. That's our audience. And I was just given some some great advice at the beginning. Like, know who your ideal man who I know you're so

Alex Ferrari 58:51
Jesus Christ, man, seriously, if you don't know

Brad Raider 58:54
Scott, personally, but I've been listening to his stuff, and he's, he's great.

Alex Ferrari 58:58
He's over a film trooper, guys. You got Yeah, he's he's a friend of the show.

Brad Raider 59:03
Desmond devenish. To who? I know you Yes, yes, yes, as well. He and I met Desmond and I met at film independent. And he also went to NYU. And you know, we're both exactly the same age and we kind of met we're like, oh, yeah, just made a movie. Oh, yeah. Me too. Yeah. I also, you know, was in it. Oh, yeah. Me too. And I directed it. Yeah. Well, cool. It's fun kind of having all of those. You know, Ruben stone, Michael Rubenstein, who you interviewed who I grew up in Sundance. Yeah, same boat. I think you also talked to Jason Schumann, right?

Alex Ferrari 59:37
Jason's Yes. I talked to me, Jesus Christ. Schumann and

Brad Raider 59:41
I are buddies. You know, of course through Sebastian and Alex slid back, who's also a student is a great screenwriter. But anyway, the advice I got to kind of know your fan and know your audience, is really good advice. Man, I think will really help narrow the marketing. Because you're right, you know, you can just kind of shotgun it out and hope for the best. But if you can identify where your fans are, who they are, they're into. You've got, I think, a much better shot of reaching some eyeballs.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:22
Yeah, I think it's it, there's just such a, there's a lot of work involved. And I think that's something that filmmakers don't really anticipate. Like, you know, when you're doing a feature film, and you're gonna try to do this grassroots, it's gonna take time to build up that audience unless you have that audience already. But it can be profitable, if you keep the budget low and put in the hours.

Brad Raider 1:00:45
Yeah, it's true. It is a grind, it is a hustle indie film

Alex Ferrari 1:00:50
status. That is why I call this the show and the website indie film, hustle, because man, we're always, we're always hustling we're always getting out there. Now, I wanted to talk to you real quickly about meditation. Because, and I know, we could probably talk for days about this. But for me, I've had meditation in and out of my life for probably the last 15 years. And I always find it very, what I do tap into it. It's very, it's centering and relaxing in a chaotic world. And the more chaotic it becomes, for me with all the millions of things that are going on in my life. Meditation, I always find that settles me. But my biggest issue, and I think it's the biggest issue for a lot of people, who are you trying to get into meditation? Or not? Is your mind your own minds? Like, you don't have time for that? You just gotta keep going. You don't have time for that? Yeah, keep going and settling down, even when you do sit down to meditate, just kind of the quieting of the mind and quieting of, you know, centering yourself. Can you talk a little bit about and I know we're now going off filmmaking guys, but I think this is very helpful to filmmakers, because meditation is movement, honestly, it's going across the world. And the benefits are even being are being proven by science at this point in the game things that the monks have known for millennia. Yeah. So can you can you kind of guide guide us, no pun intended, guide us a little bit in regards to that for anybody who's interested in meditation, what kind of tips you can do, and what kind of meditation you do?

Brad Raider 1:02:29
Of course. So I have been practicing a technique called Vedic meditation for about a decade. And I was lucky enough to travel with an apprentice, my teacher, very famous meditation teacher named Maharishi vs. Ananda, aka Tom Knowles. And I traveled with him for two years, this is kind of my journey in the wilderness. You know, I grew a mustache, I didn't quite grow a full beard, but I did grow mustache. And he trained me to teach. Yeah, we went to India, and then later, my Jedi training was completed in Bali for three months.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:14
So much more exciting than all of them.

Brad Raider 1:03:19
And so I've been teaching this technique now that I love and that has really influenced my life as an artist and as a man. I've been teaching now for five years. Now, there are many, many different techniques of meditation out there, I think, what has contributed to perhaps some of the confusion in terms of Well, I know meditation is good for me, but how do I start? How do I do it? What do I do? A lot of that confusion comes from the different techniques, many of which require focus, concentration effort, like you said, you know, sitting down and trying to clear the mind of all thoughts, which is a bit of a misnomer, right? So telling a meditator to clear his or her mind of all thoughts is a little bit like saying whatever you do right now, don't think of a white polar bear. Right. So now, this is not to say that stepping beyond thinking activity and stepping beyond body sensation, right, is not a real phenomenon. It is. It is a beautiful phenomenon where one can saturate themselves in a state of creativity and fulfillment and awareness of simply being aware. This is tremendously useful. I think for everyone because it's the exciting the nervous system and unwinding a ton of Stress but especially for creative people, because you are suddenly that individual waves settling down on this kind of oceanic state of consciousness and really feeling the true profundity of your creative power. So that experience is real, right stepping beyond thinking activity is real, but it's not the goal of meditation. And it doesn't happen by virtue of the meditator trying to make it happen. So what we what we need, and I think what I've found is most useful, especially for a lot of my students, who are filmmakers are in the film industry is something mechanical, and incredibly easy to do. Something that allows the meditator to sit comfortably in a chair, which is really important, none of this having to sit perfectly with an RX spine in some sort of knows how full lotus position, none of that we want to be absolutely comfortable, back supported. And practicing a very, very simple, nuanced, sophisticated, elegant, but counter intuitive technique. It's not what most people think it is, especially if what they think meditation is involves concentration and clearing the mind of all thoughts. So giving people a very specific learn technique. And when they learn this from a Vedic meditation teacher, like myself or my colleagues, it's done so in four sessions over four days, typically 90 minutes each day, so that you're completely self sufficient. And absolutely trained by the end of those four days to be able to do it on your own. Without an app without having to listen to some, you know, Indian music, or lighting, incense, or drinking kombucha or wearing mala beads or anything like

Alex Ferrari 1:07:16
that. Nothing wrong with Kabuto. I'm just just joking.

Brad Raider 1:07:22
Especially the ginger ale, that's,

Alex Ferrari 1:07:24
you know, it's my funny, she's actually my favorite.

Brad Raider 1:07:30
So, you know, giving, giving people a very specific technique to practice and then making it a part of their routine, just like eating and sleeping and brushing your teeth and showering, and giving them an opportunity to really rest the body deeper than sleep. But what a lot of people don't realize is that these states of meditation that we can mechanize ourselves into our deeper rest, then horizontal slate, yeah. And this is where we see all of the studied benefits, lower blood pressure, cholesterol, lower risk of heart disease, normalizing of sleeping patterns, you know, greater energy productivity, it's by virtue of resting the body very, very deeply, and removing onboard stress from deep within the system. And that's it. And it affects almost every area of our lives. And creativity, our relationships, you know, our responsibilities. It's there's really no aspect that it doesn't touch.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:43
And it does kind of open up the creative channels and allows you to flow a little bit more as a writer or as a filmmaker in general.

Brad Raider 1:08:51
I mean, it's unbelievable, you know, and not only will ideas come to you in meditation, something that David Lynch, a famous, yeah, filmmaking meditator, meditator, has, has coined, and by the way, you know, Stanley Kubrick and George Lucas and Clint Eastwood and Martin Scorsese, and these guys all meditate on and on. They're all meditators. Hey,

Alex Ferrari 1:09:22
I've studied I studied Kubrick for years, I've never once heard meditation come up. That's really interesting.

Brad Raider 1:09:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not only that, ideas come to you while you're practicing. But there is a an integration process that happens with states of consciousness, whereby your waking state, in the eyes open state becomes more creative and intuitive. And that's really where you need it. I mean, when I was writing the movie, I would get so many ideas in yoga class, I would have to have like a pad of paper next to my yoga mat, and my yoga teacher would just kind of roll her eyes every time I got down from a downward facing dog to jot something down. Because I couldn't turn it off, I could not turn off all of the ideas that were just naturally flowing spontaneously, I think from regular practice of these ancient techniques,

Alex Ferrari 1:10:30
that's fascinating. And I know we could talk about meditation, and the filmmaking and the creative process for days, maybe we'll do another podcast about that, or not, or an online course. But so I have, I'll ask you the last three questions, I always ask all of my, all of my guests, what advice would you give a filmmaker or actor just starting out,

Brad Raider 1:10:54
I would say, know, not only what it is you're doing, but why you're doing it, and how you want to do it. So the why and the how become infinitely as interesting as the what. And those those things can change, too. You know, when I was an actor just starting out, I knew that I loved doing it. I knew that I loved being on stage, or in front of a camera, but I didn't necessarily have a bigger picture in mind of why I was doing it, and how I wanted to move through the world and through the creative. Those, those are really important pieces of the process, it's not necessarily enough to know that you are compelled or obsessed by our artwork, which many of us are, as soon as you can kind of filter in, well, what is the bigger goal here? You know, am I trying to help other people, hopefully, I think once we can put our artwork, or any of our work into the context of giving to others, and helping others, you know, alleviate suffering, increase happiness. And I think we're, we're doing something much, much bigger than ourselves.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:36
Now, what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in life or in the film business?

Brad Raider 1:12:44
Oh, that's a good one. I think not taking myself so seriously. And having fun, was a really big lesson. And I still have to remind myself because you know, we can get so serious. This is my work. This is my art. I have to often remind myself, Hey, buddy, get home. Have fun. Don't forget,

Alex Ferrari 1:13:16
we're in the film business. And we forgot. I mean, how lucky are

Brad Raider 1:13:19
we to be able to do this. When you get to that set, like we were talking about before, even though you've prepared for days, and weeks and months, let it all go. Just enjoy, just have fun. That is a really profound lesson to enjoy the ride, because most of it is this process. And where people get into trouble is looking for fulfillment on the other side of that film release, or that achievement, for that big job with a relationship. And fulfillment doesn't lie. On the other side of any of those things. It exists inside of you first. And if you can cultivate that status is filament, right? And then, instead of importing it from the world, export it to the world through your work, and through your relationships and achievements. It is infinitely better for you and for everybody else, and it's much more fun.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:34
Absolutely. It's a great actually great lesson. And can you answer this last question? What are three of your favorite films of all time?

Brad Raider 1:14:42
three favorite films of all time. They would have to be 2001 Space Odyssey,

Alex Ferrari 1:14:51
of course.

Brad Raider 1:14:54
I'm very partial to Richard Donner's Superman. Yeah. I love that. Because it really started the journey for me, you know, I must have been four years old. And there was this character that I loved and admired so much. And I wanted to be Superman. And yet there was a part of my brain that for the first time, I understood that there was this other guy named Christopher Reeve, who was playing the role. And you know, who should I be more thankful to? The character or this guy whose job it was to inspire me? That was a very profound inflection point.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:39
And yeah, I do I love Superman and Superman to the Donner cut.

Brad Raider 1:15:44
Yes, awesome. Very good.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:49
We could do without three and four. But one and two.

Brad Raider 1:15:54
Were the quest for peace. For was

Alex Ferrari 1:15:56
the quest for peace when he wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons on the planet. And he fought some sort of golden dude that did that Lex Luthor created out of a strand of his hair. And right, it was just it was it was done by the Canon film company back in the days. So basically became Warner Brothers sold that off to canon to make another movie, it was insane. I don't even know how that happened. But anyway, very cool. And that was a two or three.

Brad Raider 1:16:26
That was to, you know, number three, it's it's cash. It's so hard, as you know, to narrow it down. I mean, sure, sure. I think the probably Raiders of the Lost Ark. And, you know, not to reference my namesake. But this, I think, for a lot of us at that age was like, the ultimate movie experience. I mean, along with Star Wars, and the rest of the Lucas Spielberg canon. had those were exciting times. And the fact that that those filmmakers are still working and those characters are still alive and viable. Yeah, save for, you know, Han Solo spoiler alert. Yeah, exactly. is the kind of young Han Solo movie also looks like it's gonna be cool.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:24
Yeah, it's good. But the character is still will be with us for quite some time character will

Brad Raider 1:17:29
live forever. And you know, same with Indiana Jones and Superman, and they can reinvent Batman as many times as they want, I will still show up. I know.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:40
I know. Though this though this last incarnation was a little rough. But that's just me, it was such a rough movie.

Brad Raider 1:17:47
It really speaks to our interest and excitement, for archetypes and for story. You know, we are a species that, that gravitate towards story, and what kind of an important, exciting job that we as filmmakers do, to be able to be purveyors of story and of consciousness to to shift perspective, and to make people laugh and cry in those two hours in the dark.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:26
And but where can people find you online.

Brad Raider 1:18:29
So the film's website is kensho film KNSHOFI lm.com. And we're also of course, now on iTunes show at the bedfellow on iTunes. And then my meditation work is m DT eight, that calm is an M as in Mary DS and David T's and Tom eight, short for meditate. Very cool. And those are the those are the two main hubs that people can track down.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:00
Fantastic and I'll put all those links in the show notes for you guys. So definitely check it out. But I mean, thank you so so much. It was an enlightening conversation. No pun intended.

Brad Raider 1:19:09
Great. I really enjoyed it.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:12
Thanks, man. Man, Brad was awesome to talk to you very enlightening conversation, I actually need to get back into meditation. I need I need some more peace in my life. It's a little bit crazy for me and I think finding and centering yourself as an artist and as a filmmaker and as a entrepreneur is very, very important. And I might talk more about that in the coming months and weeks but I wanted to thank Brad for being on the show and hopefully this inspires you guys to show you that it can be done it can be done and I will be doing something similar with this as mag a hopefully in the summer and you guys will know more about that and my journey will be documented extensively on that process moving forward as well and just want to just want to say something real quick before we go Here's 150 episodes of this, this podcast and it's been an amazing run so far, I plan to keep going as long as I can physically. But I really thank you guys so much for all your support. And I get on a daily basis just tons of emails and messages on Facebook and Twitter and, and thanking me for the show and saying that we're an inspiration to a lot of filmmakers out there and at the end of the day, guys, you are an inspiration to me. And we were in this together and I truly appreciate it. And as I my career as my career continues to move forward, and the different adventures that I get into, I will report back from the the the trenches as they say, and and let you know what I discover on my journey as a filmmaker and as an artist. And hopefully some things I learned along the way will help you guys on your journey. So thank you again, so so much for all the love all the support. And don't forget if you want to get anything or look at anything that we talked about in this episode, head over to indiefilmhustle.com/50 for the show notes. And guys, keep that hustle going keep that dream alive. And I'll talk to you soon.