IFH 221: Finding an Audience for Indie Films in 2018 with Shaked Berenson

Alex Ferrari 0:03
So today on the show, we have returning champion Shaked Berenson. From epic pictures, I had a chance to sit down with him at Sundance, and discuss the ever changing landscape of marketing and finding an audience for your indie film. Through epic pictures. They are an independent film production company. And they put out indie films constantly. And they're always looking for new ways to find that audience and engage with that audience. And we talk a lot about what he's doing over with Epic pictures, with their new acquisition, dread central calm, and how to find that audience and connect with them to hopefully give them the product that they are looking for. Now this episode is the last of the Sundance special episodes next week, we start back on our normally regularly scheduled program, I still will only be doing one new one a week for the next week or two, because my top secret project is almost done. And I cannot wait. I cannot wait to share it with you guys. I am so so so excited. I really think it's going to be transformative for the entire indie film hustle tribe, on on what this project is. So I know I've been building it up a lot over the course of the last few weeks. But hopefully it will it will hold up to the scrutiny when I when I finally mentioned and released the information about it. And you want to win once you understand once you hear it. You understand why February and parts of March are so difficult for me to get anything out. But I'm still getting these podcasts out for you guys because I know how important they are to you. So without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Shaked Berenson.

Welcome, guys, I'd like to bring back to the show. Shaked Berenson. Thank you so much for being here, man.

Shaked Berenson 3:43
Thank you for inviting me.

Alex Ferrari 3:45
We are doing our Sundance yearly tour.

Shaked Berenson 3:49
Very exciting.

Alex Ferrari 3:50
Yes. How has it been so far?

Shaked Berenson 3:52
It's been a lot of drinking, slow drinking. And I think the difference between Sundance and a lot of the other festivals that there are a lot a lot of work. And then heavy drinking in the end of the day was some that is kind of waking up and slow drinking throughout the day,

Alex Ferrari 4:06
And less alcohol because of the altitude.

Shaked Berenson 4:09
It's less alcohol. Yeah, because it's more about the, you know, the long term versus the long tail.

Alex Ferrari 4:15
It's a long it's a long term, not short term game. So can you tell us a little bit about you know, well, first of all, your last podcast episode was extremely popular, a lot of people downloaded it and really loved the information you gave. So that's why I wanted to bring you back because I know you've been doing a lot of exciting things with epic. So what is new with agriculture since last time, you were on the show?

Shaked Berenson 4:33
So last time, we spoke about turbo kit, which premiered here years ago, two years ago, three years ago. And we spoke about how at epic we build the system that we do everything from the development, the financing, the physical production, we do foreign sales, obviously, which is attached to the financing and then also us distribution. Since then, we We were in the process and we finished acquiring a piece of dread central media, which is a an owner publisher, obviously, you know, the guys, the co founders, you know, Steve Barton and john Condit, yes, yes. And what's interesting that it kind of gave us the last mile in that marathon, because it allowed us to really touch the audience. So, um, which for me, it's, you know, it's it's very interesting and exciting.

Alex Ferrari 5:24
So you perch to basically, you know, you talk about marketing and audience audience building you that purchased an audience. Yeah, access to that audience. So you can start building and using it as long as he doesn't.

Shaked Berenson 5:33
Yeah, it's it's several thing. It's, it's, well, first of all, as you know, a company that releases a lot of horror movies and movies. dread Central's been always great to us and writing about our movies, and we've actually been buying that space. What's that? I thought we were all in love one big microwave. And then slowly. And then we're waiting for like, some giant to like, open up and like, touch us like, oh, you're still soft, put back in and, you know, alright,

Alex Ferrari 6:06
So pick it up from where you were,

Shaked Berenson 6:08
I don't even remember we were talking about

Alex Ferrari 6:10
We we were. I don't know. Central, building an audience.

Shaked Berenson 6:17
Oh, so um, so as you know, no dread Central, you know, it's like, one of the top hops for orphans for any horsemen. You know, it's games and music and tattoos and an epic and epic, you know, releases a lot of horror and epic is epic releases a lot of films, we make a lot of films, and we really kind of became known in the horror genre and the family in general. And I'm sorry, my head I'm like, I'm thinking it's actually Sunday. So So yeah, no, it has nothing to because actually, actually, actually, it's all started two years before that. Okay. Should you go back? Go for it. So it's really started when I was workshopping. Um, so I'm literally like, as we talk, I'm like thinking about it that actually the seeds for all of this were many years ago. Okay. So two years ago, I was workshopping at UCLA, two things. One was a business plan that they put together to kind of disrupt a little bit, the theatrical business, the way it's done. I mean, we all know, you know, this movie pass and, you know, all sorts of things that, you know, try to change the theatrical business, and try to figure out how to bring more people to the cinemas, and how to monetize better. The other thing that we did was because our company makes movies of all sorts. So the year that we are to book it here, we actually had a movie called entertainment, which is an experimental art house drama, dark drama, comedy kind of thing. But people really know us for the biggest spiders the tales of Halloween, right? The turbo k do really nice genre, or the feminist late, you know, we have successful femicide. So a part of what I was were workshopping at UCLA was our branding. And a part of what came out from that research was that we probably should start a horror label and put all the horror stuff under that label. Because the imagery, the marketing, it's very dominant very much. So if you go on somebody's website, and they have to horror poster to family, to thrillers, and to documentaries, the horror stuff, just gonna take over it, which is nothing wrong with it. And we love the horror audience, because they're very loyal, and very vocal. And obviously, it's a big part of who we are and what we do. And the recommendation was to start putting things into boxes as we grow under epic family epic, or some sword or makeup, some name. And then, in the end of 2016, when the opportunity came up to buy dread Central, it makes total sense because dread central was a site that we went to, you know, it's like our go to place for everything whore. And it's a brand, it's already known in the horror. Right? Right. And they were kind of in in a trouble in a bad spot, toward the end of the year. And it was a good opponent who come help them because they've been great to us. And then also use dread central to start what we launched earlier this year, which called dread, dread central presents, which is basically going to take off our library of everything here. And we're going to release more horror movies using the epic disk distribution channels, but curated by the dread central reviewers. Interesting. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 9:43
So then, by using dread central presents as a brand you've you basically purchased not only an audience, but the brand name that is so recognizable within the audience that you're going after.

Shaked Berenson 9:53
Yeah. And so instead of like starting at midnight, or whatever, we come up with some Like that, and then start from scratch. But for us, it's more than that, because we make four to six movies a year. And not all of them. Many of them are genre, but not all of them. So having the dread center presents label gave us the space that we can also pick up other people movies, because we almost very rarely would buy movies, we would go to Sundance or South by Southwest, we watched the movies very rarely who actually go in and purchase one for distribution. But now that we kind of have that room that you can say, yes, you know, what epic is, you know, a dread is there is some crossover, but dread can buy pickup door movies with their own film, it gave us that room. And because we built the US distribution side. And you know, just to release four to six movies a year kind of leaves a lot of that unused. So it gave them a lot more work to do that is so and so juicy. The exercise is using our resources and networking and the things that we built to add more value to that audience as well.

Alex Ferrari 11:07
And how many now? Are you going to be able to open it? Because obviously, you'll be able to

Shaked Berenson 11:11
Yes, so the idea is, and this is where my my other plan came in, we're releasing 12 movies a year in theaters, okay, and the way we work it, it's almost like a book club. So instead of trying to sell every movie, on its own, we creating this communities in different cities that was screening it every month, it's a one night or two nights screening. And like a book club, like you come to all of them, and you can, you know, purchase the tickets, follow them, and do curated by dirt Central and do hosted by joint central writers. So our writers are spread all over the states. And they have their own little, you know, local communities. And the idea is to build this committees around a specific theater. And our first release is actually next week.

Alex Ferrari 11:58
So that's very interesting, though. So because theatrical is very difficult to Yes, we make money with in general, especially in today's world, because you need a lot of pee and a lot of marketing to get assets and Jesus Yeah, so this is very interesting model that you're using. So it's gonna be one night only and you're gonna do like series of it like so if it's one movie, you only can watch one night, kind of like a phantom events, kind of

Shaked Berenson 12:19
Yeah, so you know, I've seen me night also have Can I, you know, it's not, you know, we're not like inventing something. Sure. But the difference i think is what we're trying to do is that we realize that first of all, you know, tickets to the same are expensive. And it's really hard to get somebody to, you know, pay 12 or $13 per ticket depends on the city, it's a lot easier to get people to buy two beers for that price. So if you make it into an event, and we have our screenings are hosted by a horse expert, and then everybody goes downstairs to the bar or the bar next door, and can discuss it and have a horror trivia. We're planning to do a lot of talent connect via Skype, we have a lot of giveaways. I believe that in in all three first screenings, everybody's getting many posters when it coming in. And some of them also signed by the filmmakers. So it's a lot more kind of making it as an event. And as a label, it is all horror but it's it's the idea is to be very diverse. So the first movie that we're releasing is called zombie ology and jurists of tonight, which is a Cantonese speaking crazy, you know, film from Hong Kong. And we're releasing it as a double feature restricted, which is celebrating two years for its first release. Then in February releasing the lodgers having previous screening on February 15, a week before it's actually coming out in theaters. So we letting you know our community to kind of have the first you know, tip seeing the lodgers. And then in March, we taking a complete 90 degree turn and have a very, very gory slasher culture fire.

Alex Ferrari 14:05
So So it seems like before, I mean, just to be an independent, you know, company like yourself, to make any money in the theaters is very difficult. So the model that you're using it before you should get used to just be able to use the movie. Yeah, now you've got to make a shell, yes, to get them to get those assets and seats. And I think that's what you're doing. And obviously, it's working financially for you as a model to you know, to do that. And now, do you use those screenings as a launching pad for digital releases as well?

Shaked Berenson 14:33
Yeah, exactly. So for us, it's not really about making revenue from those screenings, like a loss leader. I wouldn't say it's a loss leader, okay. You know, the plan is to at least break even, but any money that generated from those screenings actually goes back into that community. So if you're talking about creating creating events locally or prizes, or basically, you know, having beer being part of the ticket, or just reducing the price of the ticket. The idea is that those community kind of going to be like their own little clubs or clubs in every in every city. So again, what you're doing is just really massaging your audience and building that audience and being very loyal to that audience. So you can kind of funnel through content, yeah, to the eyes that the audience is waiting for. Yeah. And the idea is to get them what they like, you know, and hopefully, they will be talking about it with, you know, their friends, and you know, their social media.

Alex Ferrari 15:37
Now, how you bring up social media? How are you using social media marketing, with your company, and with the new dread Central, other than content marketing that you obviously can do in Madrid Central's main website? But are you using social media? I'm assuming you're not putting billboards up? I'm assuming you're not buying full page ads?

Shaked Berenson 15:52
They shouldn't.

Alex Ferrari 15:53
I'm just saying, you know, I'm sure you're not, you know, putting in the Yellow Pages, your number for your company. So what are you doing as far as marketing in that?

Shaked Berenson 16:02
So a lot of what we're doing is actually stemming from a model that is first written in this book called Crossing the Chasm. And I've ever spoken about that. It's, it's a book that, you know, I'm going to try to summarize in a nutshell, but it talks about how integrating technology into the market. So it's really, it's somebody that I forgot the name of the author. But he's talking about, like, how to get, you know, the Toyota Prius into the market or, you know, a new iPhone, it's not really about something like content, which, unfortunately, for us kind of a commodity. But a lot of what he talks about, is how the product goes through this journey, from early adopters, to from innovators to early adopters, to the early majority, late majority and laggards right. Now, most of the independent films do not go beyond the innovators and the early adopters, you know, this, for example, just to know what they are, like we talking about, like the people that was like, stay overnight, outside the Apple store to get the first phone, you know, or the ones early adopters, you know, but when I tried to look at those models, and try to learn like, Okay, so what does it mean, for me as a, as a film producer, as a distributor? Um, from what I'm seeing, you know, the people that go and read, dread Central, or blood disgusting, or any one of our competitors, let's, you know, we love all of them, too. They are really the early adopters and the innovators in comparison to the people that, you know, read, you know, I don't know why a magazine show, you know, I forget what's the name of the apple one on iOS magazine? Yeah, maybe you can put it. And then the way to get into the the early majority, is really to capture some sort of niche market that can help you break into that. Sure. So really come out that's taking that model and try to apply it to what we do.

Alex Ferrari 18:07
You're not you're definitely not going after a broad audience, like a studio like that one of the big studios. Absolutely. You're niching down, I'm teaching them and you're and you're putting your bet on those niches because as I say, riches are in the niches. Yeah, in many ways, and you're focusing on we do this, well, this is what we're known for. And we're gonna keep going down these roads, as opposed to trying to go out and do action hour, or, you know, dramas are big.

Shaked Berenson 18:28
Well, we do that on the other side of epic. But in the past, I want to, say a year, if not even 13 months, I've been focusing on the retina acquisition, turning around some of the businesses that like with red Central, you know, the the podcast network, and the box of dread, which is a monthly subscription box that has horror memorabilia, and yes, it has beautiful. So I've been really working on that. And then on the dread central presents label, what it is, you know, hiring the right people manage it, acquiring the first few movies to do that, and how do you acquire movies? What's the process of applying? So that's the beauty of it. It started where we basically set up a system that if the reviewers have Dredd central if two or more like the film, and nobody is like really hating the film, then it will pass to the epic side to reach out and, you know, attempt to acquire the film distribution. So I've been managing this with like a big grid with like, all these people that you know, putting thumbs up and thumbs down and somebody said, like, Okay, well, I need to bring somebody to do that. And the opportunity came that I brought Rob golazo from he was in blumhouse. Okay, calm before the infant Korea. He knows. I'll admit it knows about horror movies 1000 times more than me, which means that he can speak that language, vision, all of those Reviewers better can streamline all that.

Alex Ferrari 20:04
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Shaked Berenson 20:15
And he came from the publishing world, completely new thing for him. So the beginning, there was a lot of being in the same, you know, phone calls and catching you up as all that was all of this, which he did an incredible job and caught up very, very quickly. And, you know, even before I landed in, you know, my own timeline, he was like, you know, being on the phone was the theater, the thing and closing those things himself. And you know, it was really great for me so I can put my attention. Other places. So so the process is email Rob, don't email me.

Alex Ferrari 20:54
So you have

Shaked Berenson 20:57
Our time is out, please.

Alex Ferrari 20:58
Our time's up, everyone.

Shaked Berenson 20:59
So this is people calling Rob. So that threw me off. Hold on second. We're talking about the origin of the universe.

Alex Ferrari 21:11
A gotcha. The meaning of life.

Shaked Berenson 21:13
42 dancers. 42.

Alex Ferrari 21:16
Acquisitions. Alright, so. So you're using basically reviewers as the gateway

Shaked Berenson 21:23
Who knows better about films?

Alex Ferrari 21:25
The horror movies?

Shaked Berenson 21:26
Of course, yeah, those guys.

Alex Ferrari 21:27
And then once they get past that they you get to the next level.

Shaked Berenson 21:30
Yeah. And the beautiful thing is that nobody knows better the audience will get Central, then the people to try to wonder it's Central.

Alex Ferrari 21:37
It's pretty is a very interesting model that you have going on. I haven't heard of many other companies that I at least in my

Shaked Berenson 21:44
Well, after this interview,

Alex Ferrari 21:45
Everyone's gonna be everyone's gonna be buying all of these and competing with you. That's fine. Um, you know, they'll be buying Fangoria and then all the other competitors.

Shaked Berenson 21:53
Um, well, actually, from Korea did have a label that they were launching. And, again, for me, and yes, I producing movies and everything, but I really come from, you know, for me, it's all I think we spoke about last time that for me, it's all about creating jobs. And for me, it's all about creating value creating, you know, things that people can enjoy, you know, and, you know, when you when you do that, you know, then you can take a slice for yourself, you know, I'm in opposed to, you know, kind of coming in the middle or, you know, something like that. And I think the business model that some of the other label had, they're missing some of the pieces, you know, the fact is that I could fairly easily take drizzles Dredd Central, and say, Hey, you receive movies to review, you know, which one you like, just better to epic, which already knows how to buy movies have the legal have, you know, the, the the vendor relationship and can put it on in demand and iTunes and BigQuery, and at&t, and I don't know, you know, all of all of those accounts, it was a very, relatively very smooth transition and marriage between between two, I think that a lot of those companies, if they need to start on their own and learn how to do distribution, or learn how to be a publisher, or learn how to do this, or go to somebody else and pay them 25% in the middle, then the whole things fall apart,

Alex Ferrari 23:18
Right! Of course. Now, with social media, do you use social media marketing, like Facebook ads or anything

Shaked Berenson 23:24
We do social media, we actually just hired into Social Media Manager, we used to, in the past, both do our own and also hire companies, outside companies to handle social media. I personally don't believe too much with outsourcing social media, because, for me, it's something that needs to be in house, because social media is about the voice of the organization. And unless you are a part of that fabric, how can you do that? You know, and diverse of organization? Is everybody that work in the organization, its defense, it's the vendors, it's the clients, you know, so it's not what, you know, I say, or Patrick, he was my business partner, you know, it's not like, Okay, well, this is our voice. It's not, it's our past employees, it's our current employees. It's all we together and like a big part, that's really the voice of our company, or any company, I believe, sure. If you want to do authentic, you know, of course, you can come in and say, We are a different company, or we are the company or we are and I think that it's create conflicts both internally. And also it's very obvious to the outside.

Alex Ferrari 24:40
So with, can you please explain to to filmmakers, how important audience building is because you're doing an obviously in a much grander scale than an independent film by himself or an even filmmaker by himself? Yeah. Can you explain this whole pot process?

Shaked Berenson 24:55
It's not, it's not you really just make a movie, put it out there and it just magically it just just magically everybody? Well, I think and again, what's for me was one of the things that was exciting about this partnership is readcentral is being for example, at, you know, with the booth, right? I mean, they have a booth now, it's we have a booth in Comic Con. Right. And in US Charolais and in midsummer scream, and, you know, and, and I, you know, I mean, you know, me for a couple of years, you know, it's like, I, you know, put a dress on the T shirt, I go down to the ground, and I stand there in the booth for 10 hours, and, you know, shake the hands and, you know, kiss the babies and, and it's really excited to, you know, to actually meet the fence, the fence, and, and the fence, really, I mean, it's been incredible how much love when they give you in one hand, and also feedback, you know, I mean, they will tell you, they will tell you, they will tell you, and that's great, because if we don't do what we do for them, then what is the point? Anything think that I know that, you know, like making money, you know, it's it's somehow have like, a bad word, like sales, you know, like, all those things had bad words, it's like, more sales agents equals if a distributor, you know, because sales is just gonna sound cheap, you know, but there's nothing wrong with it. You know, if if your movies making money, it means that people saw value and wanted to, you know, show it back to you and were willing to, you know, spend their time, you know, if it's, you know, Netflix or something that or spend their money if it's in theaters or transactional beauty. So there is nothing wrong with it. And I don't think I answered your question. To build an audience, the audience really find you and you kind of build it from that, you know, it's you have a mailing list, people need to sign up for the mailing list, you know, probably have to provide some sort of content that they're going to be interested in. Exactly. And, and you can by email list, you know, but then after two emails you send to those emails, they're all gonna unsubscribe. So what do you do there? And actually, you made it bad for everybody else, because we all know, the more spam we all get, the more that looks like, you know, us that we actually have the right message, which is actually a really good lesson to filmmakers as well. You know, it's like, don't just spam people with your script, you know, we could talk for hours about how to properly Yeah, yourself. So the same way that I feel confident, you know, using, you know, sending an email to our, you know, 10s of 1000s of people on our email list, because I know that everybody there is somebody who came to dread Central, or came to, you know, the website of turbo Cade, or biggest spider or something like that, and wanted to put their email there, and wants to hear about those things. And then when you selling to the right person, direct product, what he expected what he wants for the price and the channel they want, then you keep them happy, and then they will keep you happy back.

Alex Ferrari 27:51
It's a win win situation without question. So since last we talked, I'm going to ask you a few of the same questions once if they choke a little bit. The best advice you can still single

Shaked Berenson 28:05
I told you I'm not interesting, I see you as a friend, you know?

Alex Ferrari 28:10
What? What advice would you give a filmmaker just starting out in the business? In today's world?

Shaked Berenson 28:17
Starting, High school, looking at film schools or finish a sci fi or something.

Alex Ferrari 28:24
I mean, either I've never gone to film school, and I'm going to jump into the business somehow. Or I just finished film school. And I'm going to jump into the business. And I want to be director, writer, director, as a director,

Shaked Berenson 28:36
I would say my answer for this probably haven't changed in years, it's first go out and get some life experience. Because if you're a writer, an actor, a director, you have to create from something and unless you you know, your heart has been broken, you've been in a shoe job, or you know, you've been in amazing experience. Where would you bring those things into the page into you know, the screen. And what you find a lot when you're on our side, that you get a lot of scripts or a lot of the things, it's basically, you know, I'm sure you had the same experience, you're going to be described as like, Oh, so Okay, so this is the scene from Terminator, the same, you know, Die Hard three scenes from this is because, you know, a few 18 or 20, or whatever, and, you know, all you seen is going to high school, going to university and seeing other people movies, reading other people books, seeing TV, what is all you have to draw from right, it is valuable to have all that but you definitely have to build that. Well, you have to build and when you look at it, most of the more successful films, the old book adaptations, the old comic book doesn't all come from, you know, people that probably spend more time working on that base, you know, subs property, you know, because nobody goes you know, in like thing to do going to write the novel or maybe they are, but you know, I didn't want to believe you know, that novel by the time it's published. It takes years you know, it's an And people work on this thing. So like three or four years, you know, and not, you know, sitting in Starbucks, you know, half an hour a day and, and reading it, and you can tell, you know, when you get the script and you read, and you can tell that he didn't have the 10s of 1000s of hours that would have got into, you know, something that would make something really, really special. Now, we're in sometimes it was a fluke, that's fine, too, you know, there are the lottery ticket. Yeah, there is some geniuses that, you know, 14, whatever, they write something, and it's genius. And, you know, but for us, it's so much harder to even find it because we get hundreds of scripts. So you know, even one of them, there is some savant, you know, that he's like, you know, just like knocked his head against the wall, and somehow, you know, the scripts coming to him. or her Yeah, it's how even going to recognize it, you know, between these stacks of scripts. Now, what are three of your favorite horror films of all time, all time top three. And they cannot be, I assume, oh, no. No epic allowed no epic club? Well, I'm one of them. And not because it's because I wasn't friends at a time was the filmmaker, but my baseball partner, Patrick, he will the myself, we saw paranormal activity, right here in slamdance. When it was, yeah. felt like it was you know, probably 10 years ago, or 11 years ago, at a time must have been 10 years ago. a tech company was very, very small. I believe it was just us. Two people, and I believe it was the biggest offer remade for film at a time. And we knew that it was completely no budget. And you made a bit you made an offer on paranormal? Oh, yeah. And we're so out of the competition. But to really like, really, like, we know, when we're reading to bet the farm in the house, you know, one on the everything. And we would have won he would have. But the reason we did it is because we're watching it, it's at slamdance. And, you know, they have like this, like, you know, very intimate kind of room and you know, people see like on the floor, and you know, maybe Yeah, and, you know, when that clock was ticking, it's like, everybody's just like leaning forward and just quiet. If you hear anything, you just like the scratches of the fingernails, and then nothing happens, right? But that movie really stayed with us. For I believe it was two or three days after the screening. And then we contacted the lawyer that was wrapping it. And he was kind enough now I know because now I'm, I'm friend. I'm friends with the Creator. So now I know more behind the story. But so knowing what I know now, I guess the lawyer was nice enough to entertain us. Just talk to you. Yeah, to talk to pick up the call. Yeah. Because we were very far from the races. But, so that's one the other one. I believe also from here was the babadook. Okay, you know, if I want to look at like, recent ones, and then I'm gonna go with See, the thing is that I grew up in Israel and Israel didn't have independent horror movies. It could be a big independent, you know, so for us horror movies was jaws. Sure. It was alien, you know, and it was A Nightmare on Elm Street. Okay, you know, which I believe it was just called Freddy Krueger. Or something like that. Right. Um, so you know, obviously huge fan. Huge jaws fan. I'm always been a fan of the vampire movies. Okay, you know,

Alex Ferrari 33:45
Who's your favorite vampire?

Shaked Berenson 33:47
Dracula? Which one? forester for Google. Yes. I love that. Please just Dracula in red this. I actually own that one on LaserDisc. I still own it all. And and I do remember getting up and flipping the question on criteria. I would not think he got a little bit.

Alex Ferrari 34:09
Shaked. It's always a pleasure talking to you.

Shaked Berenson 34:11
That's a that's all the questions.

Alex Ferrari 34:12
That's it.

Shaked Berenson 34:12
Okay. Can I ask you questions now?

Alex Ferrari 34:14
Yes, go ahead.

Shaked Berenson 34:14
So I think you told me that you want to, you know, have it off the record. So

Alex Ferrari 34:19
Thanks again, my friend. Shaked is in the trenches every day, trying to get his movies made, scene purchased, enjoyed, and all doing it independently. So thank you so much for putting up the good fight Shaked and for coming on the show and dropping some major knowledge bombs for the indie film hustle tribe. I hope you guys got something out of that interview. If you want links to anything we talked about in this episode, just head over to indiefilmhustle.com/221 where you can get Shaked's information, their links to the website and contact info. Thanks for listening guys. And as always, keep that also going keep that dream alive and I'll talk to you soon.