There is a version of filmmaking that exists in textbooks, classrooms, diagrams, and carefully planned shot lists. Then there is the version where you’re racing against the clock, somebody can’t make the shot work, a hard drive suddenly dies, the location isn’t cooperating, and twelve pages still need to be photographed before the day ends. Jason Kartalian understands that second version very well. A producer, writer, and director known for films including Driller and Seahorses, Jason has spent his career navigating the beautiful chaos of independent filmmaking, where creativity isn’t simply an artistic advantage—it is often the thing that allows the movie to survive.
Jason’s relationship with filmmaking began unusually early. His father, Buck Kartalian, was a working character actor whose credits included the original Planet of the Apes, Cool Hand Luke, and The Outlaw Josey Wales. Jason remembers visiting sets as a kid, watching crews construct worlds and seeing how scenes were assembled piece by piece. His family encouraged that curiosity. He made ridiculous movies for family gatherings, experimented with VHS cameras and Super 8, and eventually discovered that he was more comfortable behind the camera than in front of it. Watching the unpredictable life of a working actor also influenced him. Filmmaking offered the possibility of becoming the person who could initiate the work instead of always waiting for someone else’s permission.
That upbringing also shaped how Jason approaches actors. On his first feature, originally called Pedestrian and later released as One False Step, he even directed his father alongside experienced character actors. The experience taught him humility. Rather than obsessing entirely over cameras, lenses, and technical perfection, Jason believes filmmakers have to remember what all those tools are supposed to accomplish: make the audience feel something. The writing, performance, camera, lighting, and production design are different pieces of the same emotional machine. A technically impressive image means very little if the human truth inside the scene has disappeared.
That philosophy becomes especially important on a low-budget set, where time is often the most precious resource. Jason warns against burning hours capturing endless coverage that may never appear in the finished movie. He remembers watching a production spend an extraordinary amount of time repeatedly filming an actor entering a doorway, only to discover that the entrance wasn’t even used in the final cut. His own philosophy is much more pragmatic: capture the scene. When the clock is working against him, Jason likes getting the entire sequence in a master shot first. “At least we got the scene,” is essentially the logic. Once the story exists on camera, additional coverage can improve it—but the movie can survive if circumstances suddenly change.
The ability to survive those changes may be one of the defining skills of independent filmmaking. Jason recalls making Driller at night on a Malibu ranch while dealing with cold temperatures, difficult conditions, snakes, tarantulas, bees, and actors running around in minimal clothing. His response was to dream about making his next movie almost entirely indoors. But controlled locations simply introduced different problems. That’s filmmaking. Solve one obstacle and another appears. What matters is the team surrounding you. Jason puts it simply: “Filmmaking is about dealing with adversity.” When actors, producers, camera crews, and other collaborators trust one another and remain committed to solving problems together, the production becomes much harder to stop.
Jason also believes indie directors benefit from knowing how the machinery around them works. He doesn’t necessarily want to serve as his own cinematographer, but he knows cameras, lighting, lenses, sound, and basic grip equipment well enough that he’s not helpless when something goes wrong. That knowledge isn’t about controlling everybody else’s department. It’s about understanding what is possible and preventing the entire movie from becoming dependent on one individual. The same philosophy extends beyond production. Jason stresses the importance of putting agreements in writing, collecting footage at the end of every shooting day, and keeping multiple backups throughout post-production. Those aren’t glamorous lessons, but losing your movie because one drive dies is considerably less glamorous.
His experience also left him with a complicated view of film school. Jason attended California State University, Northridge, and valued parts of the experience—particularly writing and connecting with interesting professors—but says much of what he learned about actually making movies came from being on sets. Cameras and shot terminology can be taught. The harder lessons involve diplomacy, leadership, collaboration, creative problem-solving, and developing a unique perspective. He believes filmmakers can increasingly create their own education by listening to experienced people, volunteering on productions, studying the craft, and then putting that knowledge into practice. The objective isn’t merely learning how everyone else makes movies. It’s discovering what makes your perspective different.
That individuality carries directly into Jason’s screenwriting process. He likes outlines and understands traditional structure, but he doesn’t want structure to overpower character. He develops the smaller details—what someone wears, what they drink, their habits and idiosyncrasies—and allows those discoveries to influence the screenplay. With Seahorses, the process became even more collaborative when he rehearsed with actors and incorporated elements of their backgrounds into rewrites. Even the film’s visual language reinforced its central concept: water imagery, lighting choices, production design, performance, and the screenplay all worked together around the metaphor of the seahorse.
Perhaps the purest expression of Jason’s philosophy is Seahorses itself. He largely self-funded the film with money earned from other work because it was deeply personal to him. He says he reached a point where he didn’t even care whether anybody saw it—he needed to make it for himself. The film went on to receive festival recognition and reach audiences internationally. Jason ultimately self-distributed rather than surrendering the film’s rights for a lengthy period, but that experience revealed another uncomfortable truth: putting a movie onto a platform isn’t the finish line. Availability isn’t awareness. The filmmaker still has to generate attention and convince people that the movie deserves their time.
That’s why Jason’s journey is such a useful reminder for independent filmmakers. Learn the tools, but don’t worship them. Protect your footage. Understand the jobs around you. Build a crew you trust. Develop characters before obsessing over plot mechanics. Put resources into what the audience will actually see. And above all, make something you genuinely care about. Nobody watching the finished movie will see the exhaustion, broken equipment, arguments, budget compromises, or sleepless nights that went into creating it. As Jason beautifully observes, “They don’t see the pain and suffering… They see what we show them.” That is both the cruelty and the magic of filmmaking.
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Alex Ferrari 1:16
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Dave Bullis 1:55
Joining me today is Jason Kartalian. Jason is a film producer, director, and writer. He is best known for the films *Driller* and the recent release *Seahorses* Jason, how are you, sir?
Jason Kartalian 2:06
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Dave.
Dave Bullis 2:08
Oh, my pleasure. Now, I just want to make sure I didn't butcher your last name, right?
Jason Kartalian 2:12
No, no, you did a great job. It's it's it's Kartalian. It's like driving a car and Italian mixed together. Even though I'm not Italian,
Dave Bullis 2:22
I'm glad. I was able to get that because you know, like we were talking about before in the in the pre-interview, like like when I butchered Cassian's last name, I thought he was going to hang up on me. But you know, Jason, I want to say thank you for coming on the show. And you know, just to get started, you know, how did you get started in the film industry?
Jason Kartalian 2:40
Yeah, I've always been a showbiz kid. My father, his name is Buck Kartalian. Actually, we're we're Armenian descent, but my father is a well known character actor and pretty pretty distinctive. And in fact, I actually look a lot like him. So a lot of people see pictures of him, and then they'll see a movie, and they're like, "He looks just like you. My father was in the original Planet of the Apes. Actually, I mean, he played an ape, so it doesn't really look like me as an ape. But he was where, but but he was Julius Keeper of the Cages, and and that's his his his most well known role. He was. He beat up Charlton Heston. He sprayed him with a hose. His one of his famous lines was "Human see, human do, and he was a cigar-smoking ape. So he was like, and he was the only ape that had a New York accent. So that was, and my father was also in Cool Ham Luke and Outlaw Josie Wales, and I mean, I remember one of my earliest memories, like when I was like maybe 1011, I mean, on a film set, was like we were on the old Desi Luce set. My dad was doing a TV series called Monster Squad, and I remember watching them shoot and looking at the amazing sets they were building, and looking at the the craft and the way they were shooting, and how they were shooting in little segments, and it was so exciting. And and I really feel that that being on sets and and and and seeing my father's professionalism and seeing you know how he attacked roles and and and being connected with the theater and doing all these different things, sort of just just you know maybe destined to being a part of this crazy business.
Dave Bullis 4:30
That's absolutely amazing. You know, I I don't think I've had anyone yet whose father was an actor. I'd have to check on that, but that's actually a very unique story you have, a very unique avenue of how you actually got got into the film industry. When growing up, though, did your dad ever encourage you to get in, or did maybe he say like, "Hey, you know, Jason, there's other things besides you know the film industry"
Jason Kartalian 4:52
Yeah, he told me to get the hell out. No, no, I I think I think that. You know, I mean, I you know, in retrospect, my family was a little unorthodox, and and they they they encouraged me to follow my dreams. I mean, we we my my dad would have these big parties, like Fourth of July parties, and every Fourth of July party, I would make a movie, and and it would be like totally ridiculous, and and it would be like you know I don't know just just you know George Washington in ridiculous insane you know you know situations and we we you know so in in some ways you know I would work with him and we would create things so so by through through through working he would definitely encourage me I mean I you know and and we would, you know, he would buy me like the latest video camera, you know, and it was like a ridiculous VHS camera at the time. I'm showing my age, by the way, and you know, we would shoot things, and I remember shooting Super 8, and so so I mean, the tools were there. I was always around the gear and equipment, and I think it was a natural step. I mean, I think the life of an actor and the life of a filmmaker are kind of, in some ways, diametrically opposed. I think that, and in some ways, that's probably why I got involved in filmmaking. I saw that my dad, you know, sometimes he, you know, you know, book a lot of roles, and then sometimes he wouldn't get any parts, and and he felt you know in some ways he was sort of at the mercy of producers and other and other people that made decisions and and as a filmmaker I make those decisions so so in some ways I want to have maybe more control over my life per se than per se that actor's life where you sort of have to you know take other people's you know work and then bring it to that next level. Other than you know, you know, I love working with actors. I love meeting actors, but I also would never be in front of the camera. I mean, as an actor, I I think that to me to me, it's I love being behind the camera and and and working and and collaborating with people that are super trained and and and are and are focused in on on that craft.
Dave Bullis 7:10
So Jason, I I have to ask: Was there ever a time where you were able to cast your dad in anything?
Jason Kartalian 7:15
Yes, yes. In fact, he was in my first film, which is called Pedestrian, and and I made that in in the 2000. The the release title is called One False Step, and it was a great experience. We shot on real film. We shot we shot on 16 millimeter, and it turned out really good. I mean, I we we we got you know good reviews. It was well received, and it was it was a excellent first step into the the filmmaking business, and and it's so funny because I used a lot of my dad's contacts to get actors like old time and cool actors to be in the film, and we got I don't know if you know Zachary Avery Shriver's in the film, and this actor Peter Anerati and Louis Gus, these great, incredible character actors, and it's so funny because you know those. I remember the all being in one room together. You know, my dad and all these people, and they're just, just, just, just. I don't know, two centuries, three centuries of of like incredible acting talent, like all in one room, and I'm like, I just like I'm this this young guy. I'm like, I got nothing. You guys just do it. You know, you you know you get humbled when you're you know you're with just just people that are just you know just incredibly talented, and and I think that that's yeah, and and and is so funny too because I remember my dad he just like basically changed all his lines, and I just let him. I mean, like, I mean, it's my dad, you know. You know, what can you do? I mean, it's like he's been he's been he'd been acting at the time. He'd been acting for like 40 years. I'm like, I you know, what am I going to do? I just let him let him go for it, and you know, I mean, I think I think the other thing too is as filmmakers as artists. The one thing I did learn, you know, especially you know making my first film, is I think we're we're we try to make people feel, you know, and I think that that's important. We want to make people feel empathize and feel emotion and and take people on a on an emotional journey, and and and and and it's it's part of everything. It's it's it's the writing. It's the it's the it's the craft. It's the camera. It's the acting. It's all these different levels. It's the production design. It's the way we way we like like the thing. I mean, all these things make people feel, and and I think that that's as as as an artist, I think that's what our goals are.
Dave Bullis 9:46
So, Jason, did your father ever like talk about what like things that directors would do that would just annoy actors?
Jason Kartalian 9:53
I mean, I mean, I think I mean, I I don't know. I I mean, I wouldn't. I don't I don't know if he ever talked about what he. I mean, he was so professional. He never he never complained about anything. He was just happy to work. I mean, he'd work for free. He'd do he'd do like a play. I mean, I mean, I think that most actors probably are are concerned about like you know directors that are are maybe maybe too focused in on the on the the technical side, and and they don't they don't understand maybe the the the you know the the the fact that you know you know actors are you know putting their work in, and and you know, I I do I I think that a lot of times it's very easy to get drowned in the the the you know the cameras and the the you know DIT and the you know and and what lens to use, but I mean I mean honestly you know we're all trying to work with truth and and you know, if you have a master shot with an incredible performance, I don't know. It doesn't matter what kind of lens you use, and you know, you've you've you've created some kind of truth one way or another. So so I think I think you know I feel like it's important to be a part of the tools and understand the tools, but also it's important to understand the human side, and hopefully everything's working together. So that I mean, but so so you know, I think I think you know every actor has a different process. You know, my dad was all into rehearsal. I think that's where I got rehearsal from. I mean, when I was making my my feature seahorses, you know, I worked with my actors for a couple of months before we shot, and it was a great experience, you know, to sort of work it out like a play before we shot, because you know then all the work was done before you know we we had to worry about all the technical side after that, so so you know, and you you build trust with the actors. I think that's important. Yeah, so so so I just think that I think that you know understanding that everyone has a role in making a film. Everyone's everyone's basically serving the script. Everyone's part of the the the tapestry that makes maybe a beautiful experience.
Dave Bullis 12:27
Yeah, very well said. I just I just generally ask that because I know, you know, I don't have many actors on this podcast, but I've always, you know, I just worked. But talking with many directors, you know, a lot of times directors will say that's what I do with rehearsal because I have to see how to direct each actor. Because like for instance, when I had on, I'm gonna forget his name now. But when he was on this one, one I'm thinking of in my head, he directed Ron Perlman, and he was like, you know, and and he was a little taken aback, and then he was like, you know, Ron was just like, look, just tell me if you want me to go faster, slower, whatever. He's like, and I'll handle the rest. And you know, I think that's what you know. A lot of times, directors do is that we have to sort of, you know, find out the actors in the room and figure out, you know, how exactly we're going to direct this. And like you said, you rehearse it a lot, and that way, when you finally get to shooting, you're not wasting a lot of time on set.
Jason Kartalian 13:18
I mean, I really think it depends on what you're doing. Like, like, like when I was making my horror movie, it was a lot about. I mean, we were like working with certain tropes, and we were doing things that were like, you know, you want things pacing wise to move very quickly. With seahorses, it's a sort of kind of art film romantic drama kind of, and we were definitely working with moments, and so it was about sustaining moments, and and and and and and sometimes you can say way more with a look and a and a pause than you can with just you know you know a pacing thing, and you know I mean I I really think it really depends on the the the the you know what you're doing, the the the the you know what your needs are, you know in the in the piece. I mean, I think what probably drives a lot of actors crazy is probably doing a lot of takes. You know, it's so funny. I remember way back when I was helping a friend, and you know, it's funny. I was like, he's like, oh, we need a we need an extra, and I'm like, you know, I'll do it. And I was sitting there, and and it was like a scene where the actor was entering the doorway, and they had the actor enter the doorway like I don't know 25 times, and I was just you know I was like I don't know I was drinking a beer, I was in the background, but I was watching, and when I saw the finished film, you know I'm like wow they did a lot of takes of that that guy entering the doorway. They went up there. I mean, it was it was almost like you know four hours of them getting a shot of this actor entering this location. And when you see the film, the actor's already in the location. They never they never used that that sequence. And so it's kind of a thing where it's like it's like you know you know if you can. Serve the actor the best way. What's the most important thing? Maybe the actor's performance. Maybe the actor, you know, you know these important lines, these things. You know, maybe take the time with the important meeting, meaty stuff, and and transitionals and things like that. I mean, they may be you know out the door, but the most important stuff is the meat of the piece, and so you know maybe not necessarily you know preserving the actor's energy and not making million takes that are exactly the same, and you know and and and and maybe having a a very very you know a tight shooting list so you you don't have to shoot from every single angle known to mankind, you know, sort of preserving the actor and also preserving the crew and being able to to to handle, especially on a low budget set, being able to shoot, you know, I don't know, 8, 10, 12 pages a day.
Dave Bullis 15:54
And I've seen that too, where you know some filmmakers shoot way too much coverage of a particular scene or a particular action, like you know, an actor walking into a to a to a location, and then you you you know you watch the final film or the finished film, and and it's you know none of it ever made it, and you're like, oh well, that was an entire day well spent, but but I've been there myself, and I'm guilty of that as well.
Jason Kartalian 16:18
You know, it's funny. I always the always thing I do, and and this is like an early fave. It's like it's like okay, let's shoot everything in a master shot. So if if the police come, if we get if there's a you know if there's some emergency, if the actor gets sick, at least we could put we can cut the master shot into the movie. We got the scene. So so I mean I mean again I mean, you know, I mean, I'm I'm joking, but I'm sort of serious too because a lot of times, you know, you at least get it, get, you know, get the story down. You know, that's you know, especially when you're fighting the clock, and you know, I mean, I mean, making films, you know, making films at the level that that that I've made films, you know, they're they're like they're small miracles that they get done. You know,
Dave Bullis 17:07
Everyone I have on here, you know, there's always a whole host of things that sort of had to align just so they could make a movie, whether it was a student film or you know, even with they when they have a you know a pretty sizable budget, it's always like you know everything sort of has to align just right because you you know usually you start off you know a pretty good attitude about everything and then gradually you get beaten down Jason you're like I'm done with filmmaking I'm never making a film again and then you know then you know six months later you're like I got to make another film
Jason Kartalian 17:36
Well it's a sickness so way yeah and you know it. So, but it's funny. I remember when I was making Driller. It was so funny because it's like we shot at night. We were shooting in like this ranch in Malibu. There were like tarantulas and snakes and bees, and I mean, literally, literally, it was like every, it was it was like the hardest shoots every single night. I'm like, the next film I do, I'm gonna shoot all inside. It's like, and and and in some ways that was. I mean, in in some ways, Seahorses was that film where we. I mean, I mean, I don't think I think there's one big exterior scene we shot on a rooftop, and then everything else was interior, and we were able to control the lighting, and we didn't have any problems with sound, and we were able to shoot things really well, and we were able to create great style because it's like literally when you're shooting outside, and you got all these company moves, and the the elements it's freezing cold, and and and the actors are running around in their underwear, you know. Well, it's a horror movie, obviously, and you know, it's just you get to a point where you know you you know you you want to you want those creature comforts of being in a studio, you know. So so it is funny when when you know the the you get you get tortured and then you say oh I'll rethink it and then there's just new tortures, you know. You know, once you created another perfect world, there's always a million other problems that you have to find solutions for, and that's you know, and and I really think also too, filmmaking is about dealing with adversity, you know, and that's you know that's simple. And if you have a great team that can deal with adversity and people you trust, be it the actors, be it the the the the the camera department, the the producers, everyone. If you all, if you're in a team where you're all in it together, you know you're unstoppable.
Dave Bullis 19:38
Yeah, and that is something I've also learned too, just by doing, is the importance of actually building a great team around you. Because even one person with a bad attitude can really spread to other people. I've told this story before on the podcast, but I had a direct cinematography that came, you know, well, well recommended, and then he got there, and he never he he acted from the first. When I met him, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. That he didn't want to be there. He just sort of he was standoffish to everybody, and I was like, "Is there something wrong that I did or something? And he just wouldn't say anything. And then finally, the next day, he and I got into it pretty badly. So I was like, and I wanted to fire him, and the producers were like, "Don't fire him yet. You know, we we need his red camera. Well, so but but yeah, but I I completely get what you're saying, Jason.
Jason Kartalian 20:36
Well, the other thing too, it's really funny because I I I mean, again, I had a wonderful job. I went with with with Sears as we worked with this very talented DP named Basil Maroner, and he was great. and And we have a great working relationship, and we're going to collaborate on the next film together. But but I have like this sort of secret weapon. My secret weapon is I can shoot, and generally we're using my own gear. So, so if there's ever a problem, you know, you know, I mean, I think that that's the thing too. It's like literally when they say, "Oh, I can't light this, I'm like, "Yes, you can. You know, we can't do this. Yes, you can. Oh, well, if you can't do it, I can. Do you want? Okay, I'll go ahead and light it. You know, I mean, literally, if you have the knowledge, at least know you know certain basics of how to operate the camera, how to turn it on, how to make sure that you know the you know the lighting's proper. You know, I mean, worst case scenario when all hell breaks loose, you you know, okay, I can run the soundboard, I can you know I can boom the the actors. I mean, maybe it comes from just being being able to do it all in one way or another. And and I think that that's helpful. I think I think it's important as a as a director, especially when you're working with you know in the indie film budgets. It's important to know everybody's role and to to understand how to set up a C stand and you know all sorts of like little like like like little dumb things that that end up being you know not dumb when you need to do them right away. So so so again, I think that that's the other elements. I think I think my understanding of cameras and lighting and lenses, you know, I think help the the the product of of what what you know of what what I'm I'm after. I mean I mean I I generally don't want to be the person being the cinematographer. I feel like that's a separate job. Cinematographer does really set the pace for the shoot, so it's really important that you're hiring and working with somebody that you know, you know you you trust and and and you know how they work because you don't want to be in a situation where you're being held hostage by anyone. You want everyone to be on the same page and everyone to be excited and everyone to understand the story and everyone to understand the theme. You know, and and you know, I think that that's that's that's that's the that's the key to making an interesting film.
Dave Bullis 23:07
Yeah, very true. And you're speaking about being held being held hostage. One of my friends of mine, he was actually held hostage by a director of cinematography because it was the last day of filming, and the director of cinematography had all the footage and everything, and said, "I'm not coming to the shoot today unless you pay me X amount of dollars. Apparent. Now, from what I gather, I've heard I've heard multiple versions of different points of view of the story, and apparently there was something agreed to at some point that the director producer didn't remember. Obviously, it's a he said, I said, you said type of deal. But you know that is one thing where I've been like, you know how you avoid being held hostage, or at least least one thing that helps me avoid held hostage is is having people sign contracts.
Jason Kartalian 23:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was I was actually going to say the same thing. There, there, there, there's two, there's two, two lessons you can learn from that story. Number one, make sure that everything's down in paper. That there's a a crew memo that everyone on the set signs, so that you know there's a a relationship and a and also part of the chain of title of the film. That's all distribution stuff. And then also the other lesson you learn is make sure you get the footage at the end of the day of every shoot.
Dave Bullis 24:27
Yeah, always clone that that hard drive or or whatever you're shooting on.
Jason Kartalian 24:32
Well, also when you're cutting the film, like let's say you're you're take you have the film and you're working with an editor or working with a sound guy or whatever, always have multiple copies of everything of your dailies of of of rough cuts of everything, so that if there's a problem, if there you know people get busy, there's all sorts of things can happen. You know, the you know the drive could die. I mean, all sorts of things. You just need to cover your. Bases, because you don't want all of this work, labor, money to go out the window with, you know, with with with you know, not not not covering your bases.
Dave Bullis 25:12
You know, something like that happened to me. I I actually had an editor. He had all the footage, and I kept asking when I could come up there to see this cut of something, and he would always make excuses. And finally, he sends he he sends me an email one day and says that his hard drive is dying. And I said, okay. I said let's let's just figure this out. And I said, you know, if you need a couple bucks, I will help you out. And instead, he just keeps telling me that it's not a good time. Well, anyways, the hard drive ends up dying, and basically the project is-it's pretty much at that point gone because I our relationship was strained. So everybody on the on the on the cast and the crew of this project was like, "I hope this editor is going to reimburse you financially for this whole project, and I said that's a whole nother story because this this editor you know was always crying the poor mouth, and I was like, if I sue him, there you. I mean, what am I going to get? Okay, well I'm in the right, but I'm never going to be able to collect. Yeah, I'd rather just have the footage. Is what I'm trying to say.
Jason Kartalian 26:14
That's right. That's right. I mean, I mean, you don't want to be in that situation. Well, I mean, a lot of times we learn from those those mistakes, you know, and then we don't ever repeat those those errors, because because I mean I mean honestly that I mean it's it's also an element of trust. You want to make sure you trust people, but you also want to make sure that there's a paper trail so that you know you have an agreement. I mean, even if they're working for free, or or you know, or you know, you definitely want you know they're working for credit or whatever. You know, you want to make sure that everything's down in paper so that there's you know problems do not arise in the future.
Dave Bullis 26:57
Yeah, and that is you know something that I've learned too. I mean, this this all these incidents happen like you know years ago, you know when I was basically starting out to when I was you know beginner, novice, whatever you want to call it, then you know intermediate. But now you know now I make people sign a contract that's like as thick as a fucking you know phone book. But you know, Jason. You know, I wanted to you know talk more about your career because you know you mentioned pedestrian, you mentioned driller, you mentioned seahorses. You went to the film program at the California State University of Northridge, so I wanted to ask. You know, do you feel that film school was was worth it for you?
Jason Kartalian 27:35
I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think that I think the most things I learned about making films were not in film school, and I learned it from being on the set. And and and I mean, it really depends. I mean, I think it's it depends on what what you get out of film school. I mean, I I thought the best things I got from Cal State Northridge was I felt like the writing program was great, and it was really cool connecting with really interesting professors. I felt like when it comes to actually like making a film, there's nothing like actually being on a set and making a film. I think that's when you really learn diplomacy and and working with people. The actual environment of of making films in film school generally aren't like the real world per se, and I mean, and obviously, you know, you know, connecting with people, and you know, in in school, and working with people, and and and making you know making contacts, like I don't know, at USC or you know, you know, or the American. I remember I audited some classes at the American Film Institute, and or and and and I thought that that was a seemed like a great program because it was like, you know, a film film classes taught by like working you know filmmakers. I mean, I think that the world now with like podcasts like your your your your podcast and other podcasts, people can create their own film school by just you know learning from people like ourselves talking about you know the craft and then you know making their own films or or you know volunteering to be on a film and seeing how it's done. You know, I really feel like the actual craft of filmmaking. You know, I don't know, medium shot, close up, things like that. That stuff is easy in mathematics. I think the real difficult part is to make something creative and unique and different and compelling, and and something that that hasn't been done before. And I think that that's that's what you know new filmmakers need to go after, and not necessarily just just the nuts and bolts of you know. Oh, we'll do this in a master shot, and we'll do well. We'll take this as a close up. You know, I mean, everyone can you know, they you know you see that everywhere. It's it's about you know people with unique perspective. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. You know, and and pushing out that unique perspective, and and and you know, hopefully finding something about themselves and and other people, and and also the collaborative experience of working with like uber creative people. I love that. I love the collaborative process of making films. So I don't think that that element is really taught in film school. I think I think I think there's a there's more of a a view of oh we're making a film like a studio. You're the director. You're the cinematographer. In in indie film world, a lot of those lines get blurred.
Dave Bullis 30:49
One of the things I mean, I always ask people who went to film school if it was worth it to them, and there's only been a handful who've actually said yes, it was worth it. Everyone else kind of gives an answer like, "Well, I'm not entirely sure. I study a lot of of how colleges work, and and also about you know where they pull their curriculum from, where they pull their professors from. Because when I was going to to college, that's one of the things I've always wondered. You know, I was like, you know, where do these professors actually come from? You know, so you know, as I see the curriculum being built a lot of the times. Here's the problems that I see, and number one is they hire professors who have a PhD but have no real world experience. So what they do is, you know, they'll graduate with a bachelor's, they go right into the master's program, they go right from the master's program, spending you know four or five years, whatever it is, to get a PhD, and then they go right back into the college system to teach from the beginning all over again. But there's never like, hey, look, I'm going out this weekend. I'm shooting some stuff with some friends. We're gonna enter it in the Palucaville Film Festival. You know, it's just for shits and giggles. But still, we're gonna make something. And and you know, and and this summer, I'm gonna write this this screenplay and I'm going to submit it to the Nicole Fellowship, and you know, even if I don't get anywhere with it, at least I wrote something. I don't see a lot of that from film school professors. It's a lot of like you know, a lot of theory, which I always sort of cringe at.
Jason Kartalian 32:15
Well, you know, my experience there was a lot of tearing down. Like you come up with an idea, and then everybody says that idea sucks. You know, sort of the thing where you know a lack of understanding the creative process, and I feel like I feel like you know maybe maybe that's more like the real world where everyone tears you down. I don't know, but but I just remember you know, especially you know, working on films in in in college, and I just felt like you do something, and then just you just have like 15 people tell you it sucks. So it's like, okay, well, you know, this is not a supportive, you know, nurturing environment. You know, you know, I I think I think I just think that you know in life you get what you know you give and and the best thing to do is to keep your head up and you know if you can be at this great film school get your hands on incredible gear and Alexa and learn about you know the gear and and maybe be able to work with actors that are very talented or be able to use their facility, you know maybe you know film school is great for you. You've you've gotten you know you're able to project and and be bring positivity to it as per theory. You know yeah I mean you know it's important to see some of the great films. It's important to understand, you know. I don't know. See the battleship Potemkin and see things about, you know, film theory. I mean, it's you know things that you can read about, you know, in books as well. You know, so so so I think it. I think that you can get a lot out of it. I I always look at things kind of suspiciously too. Like I mean you know there's sort of a real proliferation here in LA with all these like film schools you know like almost like they have like two year programs and you know and and in fact I remember when I was doing discovery for locations there's this one particular film school that will mainly name nameless that I went I toured their facility because they, if you hire some of their their students, you know, you get their facility for free, and you know. So I was looking around, and I I wasn't happy with what I saw. I sort of sort of kind of looked like a puppy mill for filmmakers, you know. So you know, I mean, not everyone can be a director, you know, you know, and it seems like there's really emphasis on yes, you can be a director. I mean, I, you know, I mean, I understand, you know, and you know, and I think that, you know, people are born to, you know, certain people are born to lead and and tell their stories, and some people, you know, maybe are better. Doing other things or bringing their creative impetus to you know you know contributing, but yeah, there's definitely an emphasis on you know oh yeah you're going to be you know the next Spielberg or this or that, and I don't know if they necessarily give a real world view on the filmmaking process.
Dave Bullis 35:23
You know that's actually a good idea. Where you can actually use their facilities if you hire their film students. I never have heard that before, but that's actually a good idea. I know a lot of colleges now. What they try to do is establish relationships with like radio stations or local TV or what have you, and then they do it that way. And one other thing that colleges do that also makes me cringe is they get people who have experience like a a TV news person and try to have them teach like a filmmaking course. And I've actually seen that, Jason. And needless to say, it ends pretty badly. It it doesn't end well for anybody involved, and well, you know,
Jason Kartalian 36:04
I mean, I mean, I remember as a student when I was going to school, it was very difficult for me to relate to a sort of a career professor. I much rather connected with people that had actually made films, you know, and you know, so we're actually in the business. So, so, and and there are definitely people that you know that don't that that, um, you know, I mean, you know, a lot of professors, you know, they don't put themselves out there for criticism. They don't make their own films. You know, that's that that's you know, I think the essence of being an indie filmmaker is to be fearless, and to put yourself out there, and put yourself out there, and maybe you get criticized, or maybe people tell you, you know, this is bad, or you know, maybe they'll say it's great. You know, I mean, I mean, I think that definitely, you know, you have to be fearless. You have to put yourself out there, and you have to keep on plugging along.
Dave Bullis 37:02
And I like that term, by the way, career professor. And that I, I'm going to have to add that to my lexicon of of words. You know, because you know, a friend of mine who's a great cinematographer, his name is Rick Webb. Rick was telling me when he was in film school, there was a entertainment lawyer who was also like he he was a screenwriter as well, and he actually said he actually said to the class your ideas are worth a dime a dozen, but even if I paid a dime, I should deserve change, and I still overpaid. When you were talking about breaking people down, that's that's one of the things I thought of right away.
Jason Kartalian 37:42
Well, I mean, I mean, if you want to really step back, and I mean, I mean, again, another part of my life has been as a writer. In fact, I'm working on some big project right now as a writer, and the frustration of working on something that you never know whether or not it's going to be made or not. You know, working really hard, you're creating great ideas, you know, just doing great stuff, and and not and realizing maybe it won't see the light of day, or you know, literally producers, you know, thinking that you know, oh well, I'll just hire another writer, I'll just hire another writer. So it's in some ways, you know, maybe maybe that's that is an element of of the film industry where you know writers are interchangeable, creatives are interchangeable. You know, luckily, you know, I mean, you know, and the indie world, you know, we're creating our own reality, and we don't have to, you know, you know, fit into that studio slot. You know, you know, a very wise man who's a friend of mine who is a studio writer. He said something very interesting. He's like, it's like the the writer gets the writer that gets credit on a feature is the one that writes, or or no, the last the last. I'm I'm killing this now, but the last person to write the the script or to get credit for the script is or the oh I know the shooting script is written at four in the morning in a hotel room. You know basically the last writer that gets it is the one that ends up putting it out on the on the screen and it just seems like there definitely is especially with writers, there there's a lack of in in in in the the. I mean, obviously, definitely people that are well respected, but you know, there's a definitely a an element of not respecting writers or being able to plug other people in or you know into a thing. I think it also comes with working with formulaic stuff that doesn't have an interesting perspective, you know, or something that's, you know, you know, if you're if you're working on something that's a big action picture, you know, you have people that you know that write a certain you know terse certain way that you know visually works with that action, and you can basically find someone else that does. Similar type of work. You know when we're when we're working with let's say like I don't know is elevated horror or working with you know art films or films that you know, festival films, or or films that you know have a a certain interesting perspective, then you're working with people that you know you can't replace because they have a singular view and and you know and and it's beautiful and special instead of maybe let's say you know okay this is where you know everything blows up. You know this is where you know I don't know the you know Iron Man you know kicks shit out. You know you know away from everyone. I don't so so you know I I think that there definitely I I've I've I've I've felt the tide of you know being in that world where you know you're working on something, and you feel like, oh well, you know, it could be me, but it could be somebody else, and I'm just going to keep, you know, if I'm getting paid X amount of dollars, I'll just keep on working and presenting my work. If they like it, they'll like it. If not, you know, it'll be rewritten again. You know, I mean, how many times do studio scripts get rewritten over and over again by multiple writers, and most of them don't get credit.
Dave Bullis 41:23
Yeah, very true, very true, my friend. And I wanted to ask you. Speaking of this whole writing process, you know, you you know, you you've written all the movies that you've directed.
Jason Kartalian 41:32
Yes.
Dave Bullis 41:33
And I wanted to ask, you know, what exactly, you know, is your writing process, Jason? You know, do you subscribe? I mean, do you outline a lot? Do you subscribe, you know, to the whole save the cat method or not? You know, so you know, if you could take us through your writing process.
Jason Kartalian 41:48
Well, I like cats. You know, they're nice. Well, again, again, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I remember, I remember being really focused in on on Sid Field, and I just I like the idea of plot points and and the idea that where the action gets swung in different directions and and I remember I did a lot of writing when I was younger you know and just constant like like like really rating like mainstream you know you know three act structure I don't sometimes they say an eight act structure I mean whatever but the three act structure situation, and a lot of times, like when you're working on TV, you know, there's a very, very focused structure you're working with, where you know, you know, you're working, you're writing into to commercial breaks. So you know, definitely everything has a certain structure. That's why everything starts starts to look the same. When when like say when I was focused in on seahorses, I mean obviously I was thinking about an act structure, but I wasn't focused on the act structure. I think it was more important to create moments, and then once once you have a certain beat and a certain element, there there become there comes a time like kind of kind of in a more in a more organic way of swinging the action into a different place, like put it creating a a problem right from the get go, okay, and then and then making the problem you know shift into something else, and and you know, I mean, I think Seahorses is an interesting film because it sort of has a dual protagonist situation. So you know, I'm sort of working with two different plot lines that sort of collide. You know, I'm a big proponent of like sort of writing, creating sort of an outline, so I sort of understand the script. So the outline is sort of a script outline. So the script is actually much shorter, and then I continually add to it, and then rewrite and rewrite until everything sort of filled out. And and and you know, and I usually write to a theme. I mean, a seahorse as a theme was coping with loss, you know, and and and and and the idea that you know you know how you know broken people can can can meet each other and and and sort of you know create hope, and and I think I think you know working in kind of an organic way, and and not necessarily setting everything down in concrete allows the characters sort of to to guide you through the process, you know. So so you know in in some ways, you know the the characters become much stronger than than I don't know. Let's say a godlike screenwriter that says, "Okay, this is where you know the the character cuts their hair and grabs a gun and starts shooting people. You know, instead of doing that, it's like, well, why would they go ahead and do those things? What what would what would lead to those to to for this character to to. To do these things, so so it's a it's a relationship to plot and character at the same time. I don't know if I'm talking in circles, but that's how I write. I write in circles, and then and then I I continually edit so that everything is sort of tight.
Dave Bullis 45:16
So how quickly do you usually just you know get out that first draft?
Jason Kartalian 45:20
I mean, it really depends on what I'm working on. I mean, I have a lot of yeah, I don't irons in the fire, so I'm definitely, you know, you know, working on a lot of different things. But I mean, if I if I was just focused on one screenplay, I mean, I probably could write whatever I don't know whether vomit draft, I guess they call it, in like about a month, and then you know, I like putting it away, and then bringing it back if I have the time. You know, obviously, you know, on deadlines and things like that, you have to just keep on rewriting. And but but I generally like working with a a fresh mind, and then being able to go back to it and you know, edit and change and and and develop you know the the the the characters and and and and and clean up certain you know character points and story points. I I don't know. I mean, I think that you know certain people are natural storytellers. I feel like I do really know how to set up a story, and I know how to tell a story, and I think that's one of the strong points in in in in my in my talents. So, you know, and and I definitely think that the rewriting process for me is very important.
Dave Bullis 46:41
The vomit draft. I've learned how important that actually is. It's important just to get your entire story in script format, and it doesn't. It's not obviously going to be the same because obviously it's going to go through countless revisions and what and what have you. But just to get one particular way of telling this story out, even if it's if it's you know with crappy dialog, bland characters, and you know it just getting that out is the most important thing because the worst thing you can do is revise while you're writing.
Jason Kartalian 47:09
Yeah, I don't. I also think the characters to me is very important. I mean, everybody has a different process, but but to me, character is really important. And before I even start, I figure like, what is my character's name? What are they kind of dressed like? What do they do? What what what do they drink for coffee? I mean, all these little weird, little messed up details to me are very very important. And before I start, I need to know about all the little idiosyncrasycracies that the character has before I go ahead. And and and and and I think that also the interesting thing we did with Seahorses, which was kind of different process wise, was I brought my actors in and I learned about my actors and and then I started to rewrite to the to the to the actors backgrounds and so it was really interesting. Like, in fact, Justine Washburger, my lead actress, she's French, and I had this idea. You know, there was kind of some scenes that she had with her brother. You don't know where's oh well. There's another interesting thing I want to talk about storytelling as well, which I think is interesting with seahorses. But but we decided to actually do scenes in French, and we cast an actor to play her brother to speak in French, and I think it adds an interesting element and texture to the film. But but it was it was kind of the the the tail the tail wagging the dog, but it was also it seemed right, and and working with actors were was sort of workshopping the script was able to actually make a stronger piece. The other interesting thing, you know, that that that I love about writing is it's not what you tell, it's what you don't tell, and I think that that's especially with with with with with the last film I did, I feel like that's part of this storytelling. It's like you you have characters and you certain have certain expectations of how they are, but you don't know about them, and then eventually they do something that surprises you, and in some ways that's more important than revealing character sometimes is part of the plot, and finding out about this character is is sometimes more important than something you know the car crash or something. You find out more interesting things about the character. I mean, I remember like you know the the big you know I don't know Mad Men. You're talking about you know the the pilot episode where you find out that Don Draper is actually married with kid you know with kids and you think that he's this big single guy and and that revelation sort of pushed pushed everyone to a different level because you have a certain idea of how this character is and then it's everything goes a 180 degree turn. It's not necessarily a plot thing, but you you kind of blow people's minds with with revelations about characters that you know everybody knows about you know when you're making it, but but but you reveal it to the audience.
Dave Bullis 50:28
I concur. You know I think character is so important. You know I you know like the Hateful Eight for instance. You know when that came out. You know obviously Tarantino did a lot of interviews for that, and that was the one thing that he was always mentioning was you know character is the most important thing, and you know every every screenwriter that I sort of you know want to emulate that is something they they've also echoed was that you know it all starts with character basically you know who is this character you know what what kind of world are they world are they are they living in and it's sort of like you know like for for instance the Coen Brothers Big Lebowski he's kind of in his little world, and you know, and he has this crazy, his two crazy friends, and it gets that whole, you know, kidnapping plot, and you know, it all starts off because some guy pees on his rug, you know, so it's just some, you know, again, that's all from character because you know his character went after the other Lebowski, and that's how they they sort of connected. And so, but I agree with you, Jason. I think character is very important. And you know, just to go back to what we were talking about before, I think concept is very important as well. You know, just taking different screenwriting courses, I've learned that you know brainstorming that initial concept allows you to sort of pull different scenarios from that as as well.
Jason Kartalian 51:42
Well, you know, it's interesting. You talk about concept. I think also it reflects also sort of a style, technique, different things. The reason why my film is called Seahorses is because you know the main character has a tank of seahorses in their in their room, so you see seahorses, and then also the whole concept that these two main characters are like seahorses-they're adrift, they're floating around, they're they're awkward creatures, and and and also when we shot the film, when we're shooting our actors, Production design. We used water motifs. We shot with lighting with black light, so we lit the actors like they were underwater. So thematically, concept-wise, the way we shot it was sort of you know you know you know everything everything all these different layers led to the fact that this film was called Seahorses. These these the main there's a one major scene where the the you know the the the our main character talks about the seahorses in the in this tank and and you sort of realize how broken and messed up these people are but but again through you know it's it's it's it's not any one thing-it's all these things through production design, through lighting, through camera choices, through performance, through through through script, through all these different levels promote and and and and and and serve the major story theme concept.
Dave Bullis 53:19
That is something too. When you're building a team, making sure you know you have you know a good production designer, you know have a good you know who can make the set actually look alive, make it look you know lived in. You know when I was shooting my TV pilot, we actually I made sure to get a good a good set. You know make sure the set dressing was phenomenal, and you know some of the stuff. I mean you know part of it was him, part of it was me because I went to a blockbuster and a Eckerd's drug that was going out of business and I virtually bought tons of like standees. I bought like registers. I bought the freak. I bought the actual. I bought I bought the actual without you counter the counter of the Eckerd drug. I actually bought that, and we ended up. You and I also bought the one from Blockbuster. But I mean, we we all came together, and I mean, my gut it looked like an actual you know living store.
Jason Kartalian 54:08
That's like that's like you get to a point where you go you get you're examining a a set and like you do anything but you can't paint the walls. Like okay, well you know all right, well I'm not shooting here if I can't paint the walls. Like or you say, well, can I put wallpaper up? We'll fix it. You know, we'll repaint. But I mean, literally, if if if you can't paint the walls and don't shoot there, I mean, I mean, that's that's you know because because you you know you know that that was the thing. I mean, I mean that when you're making a film, you want the film to look like a real film. You want it. You don't want to use. You make it look. Oh well, we borrow. I mean, obviously, I understand. You know, maybe you don't have the resources. Maybe you can't paint the walls. Okay, I understand that. But if you want to go the extra mile, you want your film to look like a real film. You have to make certain efforts. You have to put money into the budget for. Production design, you know, you know, a lot of people like, you know, literally they'll say, "Oh, here's $300, and they give their, you know, do your wonder, and I'm like, "Okay, well, that's why all they did was put some fabric on the wall. You know, literally, they only had $3 to set to dress that set. You know, I mean, I mean, obviously, you need to work with professionals, but you also have to give those professionals the tools so they can sing and so they can realize, you know, your vision. And so I think that's important too to make sure that, you know, you have an understanding that you know stuff costs money, and and you gotta if you want, you know, you want your thing to look great, you know, you well, you can borrow, you can do lots of different resourceful things. I mean, obviously, you know, it was a good thing that all those blockbusters went out of business, so you could you buy you buy all their furnishings.
Dave Bullis 55:50
I bought like tons of backs of of like the of the movies and stuff, and somebody actually went through and doctored a lot of them up. I mean, it was just like everything you could think of. I mean, that blockbuster, I I bought the open and closing sign, you know, and like the neon. I I got that for like $10 a piece, and I looked it up online, and they're like they were going for like 345, 100 bucks. I mean, it was just it was a phenomenal, it was like serendipitous that I was in the right place at the right time with the right need.
Jason Kartalian 56:19
Well, yeah, that's the yeah. The other thing too is you know I I I you know it shows you have the true spirit of a filmmaker who's like look look any means let's go ahead and get this and get that and and and you know being able to you know you know you know it's interesting too it's the one thing I also learned is people don't understand like you could be moving those standees, and you could like break your toe. You could you know break you know smash your finger. You can like go through the wall. You could you know you know you store it somewhere, and they can complain. And nobody sees that when you make the film. They just see the stuff. Nobody sees the pain and suffering though. They just see the art, and that's what's cool. I mean, that's what makes us artists. You know, it's like it's like literally we're, you know, creating our own world, and all the pain and suffering, complaining, people holding us hostage, whatever. All that goes away because people don't see that. They see what we show them.
Dave Bullis 57:16
You're right, though. It's that things like you know when you're moving things or that that sort of thing, where you break a toe, you know. I've had friends who make films, and every time they make one, they always get sick, irregardless of whatever their their crew position is. They will always get sick like before, and maybe they're maybe they get they start feeling a little better while filming, and they're or they get sick at the end, and it's always like the same, and I'm always like, you know, isn't that a little odd that they always get sick right when they're filming something?
Jason Kartalian 57:46
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's just the stress. I mean, it's very, it's it's a high stress thing, and you know, I think I was sick the when we started the last one, and I mean, it's just, it's just the way, you know, drink a lot of fluids and just do it. You know, I mean, the the nice thing about making an indie film is we shoot them in such short number of days. Eventually, it's over. It's over. It's over a lot faster than like you know the big budget films where people are like stuck with each other for six months.
Dave Bullis 58:15
Yeah, yeah. So you know, I I wanted you know, we've talked talked about this briefly, but I wanted to talk about your movie Seahorses. You know, it won best screenplay at the L.A. Indie Film Festival, won best actor at the SoCal Film Festival, best actress and best actor at the L.A. Indie Film Festival, and cinematography at the SoCal International Film Festival. So basically, I wanted to ask, you know, how did you put all this together? You know, you know, we've already talked about, you know, you you wrote the screenplay, but you know, and you also directed this. But you know, I wanted to ask, you know, did you self fund this? Did you find funding through crowdfunding? So you, how did you sort of put this together?
Jason Kartalian 58:52
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and and again, I mean, oh, you know, yeah, great great acting. We we won like all these different facets of awards. In fact, we won Best Picture at at Seattle Transmedia, and Best of Fest at SoCal Film Festival and Toronto Indy. So yeah, we we've done really well. I think that I mean I basically self-funded the film myself. It was a passion film. It was something that I knew that was very very close to to me, so you know you know money that I made you know you know doing you know hustling and working on other projects and you know I basically put into this film, so you know and and and and I I feel like that's why the film is so personal and that's why the film was so well received. I feel like, you know, it's it's a personal statement that you know when when I was making it and writing it, I was like, I don't even care if anyone sees it. I'm just making it for me. You know, and and you know, I've been very fortunate that a lot of people have shared the film and have enjoyed the film. The film's played in like I don't know Toronto, Sydney, Australia. We played at first glance in Philly, where you're from. You know, we we we played a lot in L.A. We played in Seattle twice. You know, it's it's it's great that people have enjoyed the film, and you know, and and I'm also very happy to share the film because now right now we we we just got on we're on iTunes, Google Play, and Amazon Instant, and you know we you can go ahead and check out the film. I think it's a good film for people that are involved in indie film to see to see what you can do for for very little. It's a very small film, but it's amazing. I mean, we played we played a beach in Hawaii. You know, with films with I don't know, 10 times the the budget, you know, because it's just it's a it's a special little film. Everybody made everybody involved worked on it for all the right reasons, and you know it really worked worked worked worked out well. I'm very I'm very pleased with the the end result, and and you know, and I also also say I always tell filmmakers to follow their passion, and and not necessarily look so cynically and oh well, talking dog movies are are big right now. I'm going to make a talking dog movie. Make something you're passionate about. It takes years sometimes to make films, and if you follow your passion, you know you'll you'll be much happier.
Dave Bullis 1:01:47
I concur, Jason. I think you know, as I was saying before, that's something that a couple years ago I knew what my passion was, but there's a jump, there's a leap that you that I was sort of stuck on making. If you know what I mean, like I knew I could see the the landing zone, so to speak, but I could I did want to make that jump because you know it takes a lot of effort to make that jump, and sometimes you know you're you're mentally psych yourself out.
Jason Kartalian 1:02:11
That's right.
Dave Bullis 1:02:12
Yeah, you know you mentioned the first class film festival, Bill Ostrov. I don't know if you got to to to meet him, but I always see Bill on social media. He's always tweeting out a ton of stuff, and I always hear good things about the First Glance Film Festival.
Jason Kartalian 1:02:24
Yeah, Bill's great, and yeah, no, no. In fact, he's based here in L.A. You know, they have First Glance L.A. and First Glance Philly, and you know, it's really interesting when when you get a visit, probably another whole podcast situation or another another subject. But when it comes to film festivals, I mean, you get a lot from different film festivals, and and with first glance, you know, you know, he supports the films, and it's a lot about Twitter, and you're, you know, you're, it's almost a ride, you know, you know, leading up to the film is just as great as the film festival because you're really promote everyone's promoting each other, and there's a real camaraderie with filmmakers and connecting with other people through via via via social media and via Twitter. And I know with this film festival that we premiered at Dance with Films in LA, it was a lot about you know Facebook and and pushing things out with Facebook and so you know it's like each film festival sort of has a a tone it sets for for you know where where the social media you know it works with and and and in some ways you get kind of a I mean for me it was like a each each festival I learned a new facet about you know promoting work and getting people excited about your product and and and I feel like First Glance is a very well programmed festival. I mean and and you know and and you know I I only submitted to festivals that I that that had been around a long time and I felt like would be good showcase for for the film and you know we we did we did great we had great experience eventually film festivals started inviting us to to the you know and paying our expenses to get get to these festivals so so you know things really worked out with this film and and and I'm I'm very pleased to share the film
Dave Bullis 1:04:16
Everyone I will also link to Sea Horses on iTunes as Jason said you know, Jason, I was actually just remarking to another film filmmaker that you know, getting on iTunes, getting your film on iTunes is a huge endeavor. So congratulations on that.
Jason Kartalian 1:04:30
Yeah, yeah, and and and the film. I mean, I basically self distributed. I mean, we had offers for distribution, but I mean, I didn't want to sign the rights of my film away for like 10 years, and I mean, when you say endeavor, I think it has to do with you know just making sure your film's right technically. If you're working with an aggregator, you know you just have to make sure that you know your film's closed captioned properly and that the you know the technical specs are. There and you know it takes it's a it is a process, but you can get your film up there. The real challenge is to get people to see your film, you know, and and you know you can get your film up there, but but the real challenge is to be you know part of the conversation and and and to get people inspired to see the film, and that I think that's the big challenge because a lot of these aggregators are like I don't UPS. They just deliver the film. They're not going to promote your film. That's up to the filmmaker.
Dave Bullis 1:05:31
It's like they say it's now war not to get your film made, but it's now war to get your film seen. So it's just a war of eyeballs and ears. I mean, even in the podcasting world, it's like you know, and now it's a war of ears.
Jason Kartalian 1:05:44
Well, you're winning the war of ears, Dave. On that note, I got to get out of here, but but but I I I have to. I have something at 6:30, so I mean, L.A. time. But
Dave Bullis 1:05:57
See, we're we're just rocking and rolling with this podcast. Like time has just flown by.
Jason Kartalian 1:06:01
It's flown by. It's great. Oh, and also, I got I got a newly minted website. It's jasonkartalian.com. If you want to check that out, I I used advice that I learned on the Dave Bullis podcast that I should definitely put my stake down. And I went ahead and and also check out the blogs because I have I have two interesting blogs. One's about tips to getting your film in festivals, and the other one is questions you need to ask yourself before you put your project together. And and one has to do with you know having a finished film and being a filmmaker, and one has to do with my experience as a distributor, which that's something we didn't really talk about too much. But you know, I've I've worked in international distribution for many many years and selling movies around the world to various territories. So check out it's just spelled like my name, Jason K A R T A L I A N.com, and check it out and again I really appreciate you letting me on your podcast I think you're doing a great job Dave and I really enjoy what you're doing and I think I'm I'm I'm humble to be a part of this
Dave Bullis 1:07:17
Oh Jason thank you so much for all the kind words and I'm glad you know my you you heard my advice of putting the stake down in the ground because I I had a friend of mine who who didn't want to listen to me so I went ahead and I bought his I bought his his website that he could have had and I said you see what it's if if I wasn't your friend I could have just taken this so I ended up I ended up giving to him giving it to him obviously but I was like I was like I was trying to make a point that you know if you don't have it, it's somebody could just come by and snap it up, and that's what you know has has been going on with these patent trolls and these people who are like you know these web website squatters, whatever you want to call it. It's just you know to avoid all of that, even if you do nothing with it, or do you know what I mean, or even redirect it to a Twitter account or something, just so you have it,
Jason Kartalian 1:08:05
Yeah. It's lucky that I'm not famous enough that someone didn't steal my my .com. But
Dave Bullis 1:08:06
I mean, you you you have a Wikipedia, which is actually pretty cool.
Jason Kartalian 1:08:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to kill for that.
Dave Bullis 1:08:13
Yeah, yeah. I was like, wow, Jason's got a Wikipedia. Damn. So I'm gonna link to the Wikipedia also. And Jason, I want to say thank you so much for coming on. Jason, thanks again for coming on, Sir!
Jason Kartalian 1:08:24
Thank you so much, Dave.
Dave Bullis 1:08:53
Take care, buddy. Cool. Bye.
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