IFH 108: How to Create a Cult Classic with Rafael Diaz Wagner

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This week we have Rafael Diaz Wagner, co-writer, and producer of the new Cult Classic “Attack of the Killer Donuts.” Yes, that is really the name of the film and it’s glorious.

“Ever said you’d die for a Krispy Kreme? Here’s the movie to prove that arterial clogging isn’t the only risk of these sweet treats. In fact, it may be an artfully disguised public health broadcast.”

He started making films with a Beta Camera when he was 10 years old. Since then Rafael has written or co-written over 15 screenplays.

I wanted to find out how this film was made, marketed and sold. It’s a wonderful case study. Check out the trailer below and get ready to laugh.

Here a quote from the Hollywood Report review of the :

“If John Waters and George Romero dropped acid together and then spent the night at their local Krispy Kreme, they might have concocted something like the new cult classic in the making, Attack of the Killer Donuts. But the fact that such a film actually exists, and is exactly what it claims to be about, is something that even the best drugs can’t help explain.”

And here is the poster that got me interested in speaking to Rafael. They knew who their market was and marketed directly to them.

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Enjoy my conversation with cult classic writer/producer Rafael Diaz Wagner.

Alex Ferrari 1:47
Now today's guest I you know, well man I I saw this movie poster. I saw this movie poster months ago at Cannes. And last year, actually it can and the movie poster was for a movie called Attack of the killer donuts. And it looked awesome. The poster was so well done. Quality I was just absolutely shocked at how good he kind of looked and it looks so much. It's so much it was like it looked like it was so much fun. And, and I felt that these guys were absolutely knew what they were doing when they put this whole thing out. And I wanted to bring bring on one of the filmmakers. His name is Rafael Diaz Wagner. And he's an accomplished filmmaker who's worked on multiple films over the course of his career and he's a Miami boy. And we walked a lot of the same a lot of same we were as he says, we we've fought in a lot of the same foxholes from back in the day when I was in Miami, so I wanted to have him on the show. I wanted to talk to him about how someone gets first of all gets financing for a movie called Attack of the killer donuts and his whole process of how he made it and how they're marketing and how they're selling it. And how you kind of put together a coke classic, you know, and in it, how is it how that works. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Rafael Diaz Wagner. I'd like to welcome to the show Rafael Diaz Wagner man thanks for coming on the show brother.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 6:06
No problem.

Alex Ferrari 6:07
It's what we we we've we've walked a lot of the same as I called gravel in Miami, haven't we?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 6:14
Yes, we have. We've been in the same foxholes trenches.

Alex Ferrari 6:19
And you told me when we were before we got on air that my you used to run the Miami underground film festival?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 6:26
Yes, I was the founder and I ran the Miami brown Film Festival for four years and one of your films broken won a Golden coconut. Oh, golden coconut used to give out the golden coconut.

Alex Ferrari 6:38
That's right and it's been the decade so forgive me if I forget. Just said no. I remember no I remember no I remember the festival like did that I had to have gone through there. I'm like, I hit every festival in Miami. Especially in Florida as I'm sure but that's so cool. I'm so glad I won the Golden coconut. So man this let's talk a little bit about how you got into this crazy business. Why do you do this and I get a real job.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 7:07
That's what my wife wants to know. You me both brother. Yeah, I went to school here in Miami, Florida International University and they didn't have a film program and I always loved film but you know where son of immigrants Your parents are always pushing you to be like an accountant or something steady? Yes. And I studied English journalism stuff like that dropped out senior year to start my own magazine that lasted like six months then I did odd jobs for about 10 years from working at a think tank in Washington DC to selling us cars here in Miami and then finally I worked at Do you remember Lyon video in Miami? The No I don't live video was the premier DVD store in Miami. It was um it was specialized in foreign films. And I work there and it was like that was my film school. I mean they had stuff on tape back then. That still is not out on DVD today. I mean like foreign we had an entire wall of French films with no subtitles it was just straight up French and that's where that's where I learned you know, I always loved cinema but that was like whoa, another level you know, Fassbender and stuff like that. And then somehow I got back into it and I shot a short and then from there I did a feature film for $20,000 in 2004 called pork chop and a glass of water. Fantastic title by the way. We we went to a few to a few film festivals but nothing really came of it. And then from there just you know struggling here and they pa sometimes and then I then I was a production coordinator on on film for National Lampoon called The Legend of awesomeness Maximus in 2008. And then the economy went down and did some odd jobs again, I mean I've gone in and out of the business like two or three times and then things really started kicking I would say like around again in 2013 and I went two years back to back filming. We started we ended 2012 2013 filming a movie called shark and saw women's prison massacre

Alex Ferrari 9:15
which I wanted to talk a little bit Can you please talk a little bit about shark shark a shark and saw women prison man because I saw the trailers today it's quite genius. Can you please tell it's a great cast? I'd love to just tell us a little bit about that movie

Rafael Diaz Wagner 9:29
that film I I was looking on IMDB and I want I could so i'm i'm good talking to people and I thought I could get a little bit of money to make a movie. But unlike you I didn't study directing I can't edit so I'm limited I'm a writer by heart I get right till the cows come home and producing comes naturally you know it's the the Miami que anime. So I needed someone who was turnkey, someone who had experience and I looked and I found Jim winnaar ski and if you don't know Jim when our ski is he is Roger Corman most prolific director, he's made over 80 films. Wow. And so I called him and he responded, and we talked back and forth and he's like, you know, yeah, I just low budget and like, well, we could do this and blah, blah. So I got, you know, some monies, and we decided to go to Northern Florida west of Tallahassee and our west case. Oh, yes.

Alex Ferrari 10:21
So just for everybody who knows west of Tallahassee. is I think you've left Florida at that point.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 10:27
Well, it was central timezone. I didn't even know that. Yeah, I was gonna say,

Alex Ferrari 10:31
you really left, you've left Florida at that point. A lot of people argue that after Orlando, you've left Florida.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 10:40
So we went there, and then he brought along his crew is turnkey. We brought in Traci Lords. I knew Dominic swains boyfriend from LA. And then you know, I was talking to him. I'm putting together this project AFM. And he's like, Oh, you should call Dominique. And he was like, come on, dude. I gotta do this. I can't afford her. He's like, Yeah, she still loves stuff like this. So we call her boom, and she was on board too. And we went over the to make this this crazy little film, and I thought this is going to be a cakewalk. This guy when our skis made over 80 movies. I mean, there's books on them. There's a documentary on him. And he, you know, we got there in the first day, and it's like, oh, my God, he's a freakin maniac. A nightmare. Really? It was Yes, it was a night. I really thought I was gonna get a heart attack. Well, it was it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had. Day one, I walked off set. And when I come back, it's lunchtime and he's throwing a sandwich and firing to cater. Now obviously in LA you can do that in West you know, Western Tallahassee in the middle of nowhere. You can't fire the caterer because there are none.

Alex Ferrari 11:43
There's the there's not like 15 more caterers you can call? Yeah, he

Rafael Diaz Wagner 11:47
was just you know, I don't I don't want to talk about about people. But I think that sometimes bravado and Maverick and Oh, he's a hustler gets people away with certain behaviors. Like I've heard, you know, horror stories of Michael Bay. I don't know him personally, but, but I don't think there's an excuse for that. I mean, you know, the makeup girl cried twice. I had to, you know, talk people off a ledge where, you know, going over production, it was just, it was a maniac. Why don't like what, how old one?

Alex Ferrari 12:16
How old? Was he when you made that movie?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 12:17
He's in his 70s. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 12:19
Yeah, I've had I've had I've had experiences with, with, and I'm not gonna say older directors, but a directors that have, like, have had, you know, success in their early days. And they're like in their 70s, sometimes even 80s. I've had projects. And it's very interesting.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 12:39
Yeah, it's very interesting. So very, we got past that. And then I'm the producer on that. But then eventually, we had a difference of opinion with the executive producers and ham and stuff again, I just I walked away from the project. And then they went on to post production and they they sold it and distributed by shout factory. So I saw it on in Best Buy and stuff. Nice night. And as a matter of fact, if you go to IMDb, yeah, I'm credited as the sole producer. But if you buy the DVD or rented, my name is not in the credits. So I just leave it at that.

Alex Ferrari 13:18
That's that's, but that's the stuff they don't teach you in film school.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 13:21
Exactly. And then from that experience, which was really a low point where I really did think I was gonna get a heart attack, it was that bad. I felt sick. I didn't want to go to sleep at night, because I didn't want to wake up the next day, right. And then from that, a year later, I went to probably the best experience I've ever had in a film. And that's Attack of the killer doughnuts.

Alex Ferrari 13:40
So let's talk about Attack of the killer doughnuts because that actually is the reason I called and reached out to you. And then once we started talking, we realized that you know, we'd known each other we'd known each other's work, and we're from Miami and all that kind of stuff. But, dude, I was actually telling you, when we were off air that I saw the poster for Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. While it was at the Cannes Film Fest. Yeah. Sorry, I see. Sorry, Florida, Freudian slip back of the killer doughnuts. And I saw this amazing poster. And I'm like, this can't be real. This can't be a real movie. And I looked it up. I'm like, holy crap, someone made this movie. This is awesome. And I actually posted it all over the place and retweeted it and everything and everyone was like, This can't be everyone's let's say like, no, this is a fake because it looks so good. The poster looks so good that it looked like a fake movie. It looked like a real movie. But then I saw the trailer I'm like, this is brilliant. So that's why I reached out to because I wanted to know first of all, what brought you to make a cat Attack of the killer donuts?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 14:43
Well, while filming shark and saw there was people involved there and you know, when you're when you're on set, you're always thinking what's the next gig? And there were people that were floating around this idea of Oh, you know what, we have this idea for this movie and I was like, I love that and then You know killer donuts and then I said well let's call it attack and the killer donuts because I'm going to I'm going to show you my hand here and the reason it says attack is number one visa starts with an A,

Alex Ferrari 15:10
of course. Yeah. Oh, yeah. distributors list. Yeah. Oh, yeah,

Rafael Diaz Wagner 15:13
let's, I mean, what, when do you go, you're in a hotel room on video on demand, and you start at z never you started a. So boom attack and it and it has also attacking the Killer Tomatoes. It's like, it just rolls off the tongue, you know, attack, stuff like that. So we did that. I read the script. And there was a lot of potential there. But the action didn't really start to like page 45 or 50. And you just, you can't do a movie like that. Like for people that you know, we're just listening or not don't know, every page. In a script. Every every page is a minute. So you're talking about nothing happening for 45 minutes. That's just you can't do a movie like that in a movie called Attack of the killer doughnuts. Exactly. Yeah, like I mean, I love slow cinema, but this is not.

Alex Ferrari 15:56
So this is definitely another French New Wave film.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 15:59
Exactly here are like there's an Austria film A few years ago, I remember called revenge, which is like two and a half hours. And it's so slow. And I was like, I love it. But you know, that's not this. But this is more the Roger Corman school where what I like to say is every 10 to 15 minutes, either something's blowing up, or someone's getting blown. But something has to happen. You know, you can't just sit around. So we tried to do a rewrite. And it was still kind of like, and like I said, my strong suit is writing. So I bought the rights, and then I rewrote it. And then that's what we are now which is what you know, we start off and it's in a laboratory and this critter rat attacks the guy so it's like, you know, because story wise, we couldn't get the doughnuts killing early because they have to be made, which was the problem with 45 minutes, so I had to come up with some sort of action to at least hook you. And what we did is it's a uncle Luthor, he's the Mad professor. He's doing the reanimation serum. And then we see him test the rat and the rat comes to life and it attacks him at least it's like okay, there's something here it's you know, it's kitschy and then it gets the thing going and then eventually he he drops into the fryer layer. 3000 and the donuts come to life.

Alex Ferrari 17:09
Right? That's it That's that's genius.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 17:12
and bad things happen. Yeah, and bad.

Alex Ferrari 17:13
When there's killer ooze that radiates donuts, generally bad things happen. And now you also got to work with the legendary see Thomas how, yeah. How was how was he Thomas to work with Matt.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 17:30
That was also you know, one of those things where you think we'll never get somebody like him. But somebody knew somebody that knew him. And he reached out, and he got it. You know, he's like, I know what this is about. It's not Shakespeare, but it's something you know, he's he's been in the business for a long time since et If not, yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and he, we negotiated, we got him down to a to a ridiculous price that I can't say because I mean, he won't admit to it. He's like, that's a lie. So we had him for three to four days. And he agreed, and then, you know, he showed up and it was great. He was just like, what are we doing?

Alex Ferrari 18:06
So, so so that's a really good point. You had him for about three or four days, right? Yeah. So that's the thing. A lot of people that are listening don't understand that when you see some of these bigger names in these kind of lower budget indie movies, they're not there for three or four weeks. They're there for a day, sometimes sometimes two or three. And though and then you just put their face on the the DVD cover on the poster to sell the movie? Is that generally the way it works?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 18:31
Exactly, yes. That's exactly how it works. And then that's a big advantage because I always get asked, you know, I'm based in Miami, even though I film donuts in Los Angeles. Oh, what's the what's the advantage? What's better? Do I move to LA? And there's good and bad and both the advantage to Los Angeles is, you know, it's easy for me to tell see Thomas out, I need you three days. Just drive up to this address or set a limit and get him Yep. As opposed to we're shooting in Miami. I got to fly him. According to sag, he can't act that day, because he's flown. So that's two days now. Then he acts he can't fly out that day. So now it's three that you know, it's just it's a lot harder as opposed to just drive up, boom, boom, and you're done. You know, right.

Alex Ferrari 19:08
Exactly. And that's, that's one of the things I've when I moved from Miami, and started doing projects here being here, everyone's here as far as actors are concerned. So in this low budget kind of world, it's a lot easier Mike Hey, can you come out for like four or five hours today? And yeah, and just like as opposed to when I was in Miami for get it like trying to get someone you know, let's say uh, Danny Trejo to fly out, forget it. Yeah, you know, but if Danny's at home He's like, yeah, I'm not doing anything on Thursday. Here's my rate y'all show up and there you go. And you've got and you've got a Danny Trejo in your movie. Now you were We were talking OFF AIR a little bit about pay of actors and some p overpaying and underpaying Can you talk a little bit about that?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 19:53
Yes, the movie we shot in 2008. National Lampoon's The Legend of awesomeness Maximus. That was a $2.2 million My budget and that had some names in it. I mean we had a will Sasso ions during Rip Torn Christina lowchen I mean there were there were names in there and one of the things that I tell people because I love giving advice you know people ask me well what do you think this and I tell him you know, you're going to have to overpay somebody someone's going to get overpaid but the flip side of that is that you're you're going to get some deals on somebody I mean, I don't want to say you know, screw somebody but you know, it's it's the other side of the coin. And usually the first person to drop is the one you're gonna have to overpay because nobody wants to be first. I don't care you know, unless you're like you know, Woody Allen or something like that if people drove trip over themselves to be in your movie, nobody wants to be first they're gonna ask you who's directing? Who's in it? And nobody wants to be the first guy so you're gonna have to overpay somebody you know? And sometimes you'd be surprised by some of these older stars that have more clout in the European markets are willing to do certain things you know, for prices like I've heard, you know, like a Malcolm McDowell give you a day for 30,000

Alex Ferrari 21:01
Oh, yeah, I've heard that too. Now, as long as the project he's a little bit more picky but yeah,

Rafael Diaz Wagner 21:07
but it's if it's in LA you know, it's Hey, I'll send a limo 30,001 day I don't care how big you are $30,000 in one day, that's you

Alex Ferrari 21:14
got to be at a certain place in your life to turn that down. Yeah, you got to be I mean as a human being you've got to be in a certain place in your life to turn down 30 grand in a day

Rafael Diaz Wagner 21:23
well look at Bruce Willis and that that fiasco with with Expendables three where he turned on a mill not for a day but he turned on a million bucks and him and sly got into kind of like a you know, a hissy fit about it,

Alex Ferrari 21:35
huh? Well, Bruce is legendary now apparently being yeah being an interesting character to work with though he'll always be john McClane to me and that's who I'd like to think of it

Rafael Diaz Wagner 21:44
as yeah well look at Harrison Ford of like I'll take that million dude I'll be in that you know terrorism for it. So it just depends.

Alex Ferrari 21:50
Yeah, exactly. It's just exactly exactly and and but I've I mean, since I've been in LA I've worked on Cut Pro I don't know 40 features and I've seen a lot of these guys and I always asked the producers like how much did you pay for these guys? You know, I'm like, and I'm shocked shocked sometimes Yeah, at how affordable they are in the grand scope of things you know, 10 grand here for a day, five grand for a day three grand for a day you know, work you know 10 grand for a week, you know, things like that and you're like, really some of these people are you know, household names, older, but household names. I was speaking to one actor and I won't say his name, but I was asking him specifically and he's if I said his name everybody would know who he is. But I was asking him I was like working on a set somewhere and I'm like do you know do you Why do you do a lot of these you know kind of lower end movies He's like, Dude there I call those alimony movies you know, I've got I got alimony to pay for I got mortgages the mortgage to pay for I gotta pay my bills. So that's what they're called, you know, he goes I do them you know, that's why I do them. So and then some guys just like to work like Trey, Trey. Danny just works.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 22:57
I want to I want to emphasize that too. We don't want to make it seem like they're just mercenaries or they're Indian. They want to act in these smaller projects are funner for them.

Alex Ferrari 23:08
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You mean I mean, if you're working on Shark, shark net shark and I can never say that word shark and saw shotguns I think shotgun saw women's prison massacre. Yeah, you're generally you you feel that you might have a good time on that movie. You know, or Attack of the killer doughnuts? Probably gonna be a fun set.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 23:26
Hopefully. Oh, yeah. Oh, it was I had 30 year veterans tell me I haven't had this much fun in my life. As a matter of fact. I mean, I don't want to give away any of the movie but there's a there's doughnuts. Technically. Yeah. We had someone who made Don Markel. He made an eight foot by eight foot mock up of the donut shop and we blew it up. And he was actually on the team that won the Oscar for blowing up the White House in the first movie. And why don't you do my movie because he's retired. And he's like, Sure, I'll make a I'll make a few bucks, and I'll have fun and he had a blast. He would get into costume and scare the makeup girls. He would like animate a rad remote controlled. He was just like this older kid guys. He was a kid. loving him. He was loving it. And what people don't realize is California is the desert and we're an act in California, which is like 30 minutes north. And in December at night, it's cold. Very cold. So he would dress up in this handsome like Bigfoot suit. And we're in the woods shooting the attack of the killer doughnuts and he jumps out and even grown men like gribbs like, Don Is that you? You know, stuff like that. So it was great. I mean, there's some scenes where we literally told everybody grab 10 doughnuts and when we say action throw that was you know,

Alex Ferrari 24:42
I mean seriously, that's just fun. That's just good. That's good times. That is

Rafael Diaz Wagner 24:46
really is. That's just like, like I said, I went from the worst experience to the best experience and that was, you know, attacking the Cardinals.

Alex Ferrari 24:52
So let me ask you a question. How did you because what caught my eyes because there's look there's a lot of movies that are made at this budget level. At this kind of genre, kind of stuff, but very few are actually marketed properly. And you actually had an amazing poster that caught my eye because I saw the quality in it and I'm gonna put a link I'm gonna have a copy of the poster in the in the show notes, guys so you guys can take a look at the artwork on this. I'm assuming that you obviously with just the name you were already thinking about marketing way before you ever shot anything.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 25:27
Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, we don't have the funds. Unfortunately, when it's low budget. I mean, you throw everything at the film and then at post production, and we had real doughnuts, puppet doughnuts and CGI doughnuts. So we really put the money's on the screen. And it doesn't leave you much for publicity. And unfortunately, it's part of the equation you know, you have to you have to leave something for that. So I always thought like I said, attack starts with an A we can get out there and then we got our, our foreign distributor and they took it they've been to the brilliant film market Cannes Film market. And it's going to Toronto in next week.

Alex Ferrari 26:02
Nice. Nice. And how has it been received in? Have you guys gone after the festival? circuit? Have you been played in festivals?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 26:09
Well, we're foreign went for the markets. And then we had our world for me or July 1 at the Florida super calm. We won Best Film. So as

Alex Ferrari 26:19
you should, as you should, and I know the guys who run that that's their great that is Terry. So running that.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 26:26
Yes, Yes, he is. And as a matter of fact, I'm now next week we're going to the Rome International Film Festival in Rome, Georgia. Yes, every time I say Rome everyday. But something that I did is I'm very good at at strategy when it comes to the festivals. And everybody worships at the altar of Sundance, and I'll go on a limb and be the crazy guy. I don't care about Sundance, I don't like Sundance, I don't like where they represent. They haven't been indie in over 20 years, and you're wasting your money because there's 1000s and 1000s of applicants and it's it's Hollywood. It's indie Hollywood, it's there. So what I did is I looked at a strategy of When is it going to be done? What what months we want to hit and target you know, local ones, genre ones, like I purposely wanted to Florida supercon to be our first one because it's home cook and it's Miami and it's a it's a comic con, you know, so we were actually delayed for a year we were supposed to go last year and we had trouble in post production and stuff like that. And it's funny because I look at my notepad and I'm old fashioned I'm I write everything down and I had my festival strategy and it's going exactly as I planned. All I had to do was change the dates it's you know, Florida super calm Rome International. We can get in you know, we wanted to get into Fantastic Fest. Sure, sure. But we didn't get in unfortunately. But that would have been a big one. And then you know, now we're going to Melbourne Also in, in Melbourne, Florida.

Alex Ferrari 27:58
Yeah, that's a by the way, anyone who's anyone who's listening to this, the Melbourne International Film Festival in Florida, Terry runs that festival. They are amazing. And they treat their filmmakers like Gods It was so much fun that festival. I can't wait yeah, it's Melbourne independent. Excuse me, man. The Independent independent Yeah, cuz

Rafael Diaz Wagner 28:16
the other ones the one in Melbourne, Australia. Yeah, right. Right.

Alex Ferrari 28:19
So I got confused. Yeah, the independent of their awesome and really great festival,

Rafael Diaz Wagner 28:23
which and also again, it's little tricks and it's like the same way attack starts with an A, when you look at the poster now in a few months, it's gonna say, you know, Florida super calm best film. Rome International, Melbourne. Who knows how many of you know Melbourne, Florida.

Alex Ferrari 28:38
Oh, dude, I was doing that. I was doing those tricks back in the day of broken. Yeah. I got into Rome. I'm like, yeah, row Melbourne. I use the Melbourne it's everyone's like, wow, you got to Australia. I'm like, Yes. Yeah, it's mark. It's marketing. Man. It's marketing. Yeah, you know, you know, back in the day, when I went to when I went to broke into Sundance, I literally just, I didn't get in. But I walked the streets with broken and I when I came back to my website, I said, I put the laurels up and I put Sundance, but then underneath that I put visiting. Yeah, that's good. And people were like, wow, it's done. And I had people write up Yes, straight from Sundance. I'm like, Well, technically, I did come straight from Sundance, you know. So these are the kind of like guerrilla techniques you have to do sometimes in marketing.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 29:22
You have to, I mean, I think a lot of a lot of things. I'm sorry a lot of people that go like, let's say a film school, they teach you the right way, quote, unquote, to do things and if you're gonna do that, and play by Hollywood rules, you're gonna get squashed because you can't you can't compete with Transformers three, man, you just can't

Alex Ferrari 29:38
No, No, you can't. And you can't, you can't compete with their marketing. And you've got to be niche. You have to, as they say, the riches are in the niches. And it's very, very true. And as long as you understand what your movie is about, like you obviously understand your market and demographic for Attack of the killer doughnuts. Like that is a very specific niche genre. It's a niche of a niche. It's a niche of genre movie. So it's kind of that kind of movie and that's what you're selling it to, as opposed to people who make like a movie like a cactus cooler doughnuts and the like why didn't I get into Sundance I'm like, Are you crazy? Like that they don't program that guys like it like South by Southwest and might have a shot and might have a shot at that like the midnight you know, movie at South by Southwest or something like that. But

Rafael Diaz Wagner 30:23
Well speaking of that, we almost got into Tribeca, believe it or no that would have been awesome. I didn't apply though because I knew like I said, but our foreign distributor had someone and they showed it to him and we almost made it to their midnight screening but they're like it's a little too small for us you know, which is like Hey, I'll take it you know, I understand Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 30:42
but hey, that's shoot that you were in the conversations awesome.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 30:45
Yeah. If not getting into Fantastic Fest hurt because it was like man, this is up your alley. How do you not get what this is? You know, so But hey,

Alex Ferrari 30:53
but festivals are like the festivals or festivals man and they all have Look, I'm going to go down that road right now with with my new movie. This is Megan. And you know, I've it's the first time I'm going through it as a director of feature film, not a producer a feature or director of shorts. So you can't take it personally, man. It's just like, Look, it's the right place, right time right project and the right person sees it and says, hey, yeah, let's let's make that happen. I've seen people get into Sundance that had absolutely no idea that would ever it'd be it was a lottery ticket. And then I've had other movies that have like, Oh, that's a shoo in for this festival and they don't get in. So yeah, something like Fantastic Fest. I mean this that's a no brainer. But who knows what was going on that day, the programmer who saw it, you know what I mean? It's it's just rough.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 31:36
I mean, to their credit, I emailed because I'm, I'm kind of Luda, you want to translate that. I'll be hard headed. That man, I guess so I you know, thick skin. Yeah, I emailed them. And I'm like, hey, so what is hurting your feet? Because I want to feedback. You know, you can say no, but it's like, I gotta know what's going on. And they're very nice. And they you know, they wrote back I mean, the letter stung even more, because he's like, our programmers saw it and they just didn't have fun. They didn't get it. It's like out.

Alex Ferrari 32:07
Well, you wanted it. There you go. You wanted it. You know,

Rafael Diaz Wagner 32:10
but but then in Florida, super calm to actually see the movie because you know that as you make a movie, you're watching it for like a year by yourself to actually see it with an audience so much that justify it because it was exactly the right audience. I mean, they're yelling at the screen, they're telling the kids don't get out of the car, and stuff like that. So you know. And there's a lot of 80s references that I right off the top of my head, and yes, I'm taking a line from this movie. It's not like I'm trying to sneak it in there. No, it's an homage. And some people won't get it. But this crowd was like, Oh my god, Ferris Bueller. You did it and stuff like that. So they got all the inside jokes.

Alex Ferrari 32:44
Yeah, this, this is a kind of movie that you know, in its initial release might not get what you want. or hopefully it will but then five years down the line, all of a sudden, you've got to call classic on it, because it has the potential for that without question.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 32:57
Oh, yeah. I mean, I tell my investors, I don't know how much they, this reassures them, but it's like I know, 10 years from now. 20 years from now we'll be making money in this movie. Are we gonna make any money this year? I don't know. But 10 years from now, I know we'll be making money and it's just that's the way it is. You know? Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 33:13
absolutely. Absolutely. Now, how is it I want people to understand what it's like producing movies in Miami.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 33:20
Well, it's good and bad. Like, sometimes and um, I fought myself here. A I don't really like to play with others. So there's people that whenever I go to LA or New York, or even you tell me Hey, do you know this guy? And it's like, I have no idea what that is. Dude, he's been in the industry. It's like, I do my own thing you know? And then I don't you know, Miami isn't really like a film. No culture. Every every it's so hard to get a movie here that it's every man for himself, you know. And then I just put together my crew, I usually go after money myself, and I get people who are not in the industry, because I like that because they're not going to read the script. The one thing I mean, I'm a jolly kind of guy, but I have a bad temper. And the one thing that sets me off is when someone that doesn't know film says Hey, can I read the script? It's like you my producing partner like kicks me under the table? She's like, Oh my God, please don't blow up. And it's like, because it's like, I'm gonna get Frank Gehry to design this building and then I'm gonna ask him to read the blueprints Do you know anything about blueprints now and what the hell are you doing? Have you read a script? No, shut the fuck up then you don't need to read the script you know the bad side is that then they're you know, especially in Miami you know Miami what's the only business here is tourism and construction construction is how much is the building? When is it going up? When do I get my money? and film is it's tough. You don't know what to say, you know, you gotta be and the best thing is Be honest with them. If you tell them hey, yeah, right away, you're gonna get your money back. That's the wrong way to go is not going to happen. Now. So you know, paint a picture and in your contract, be very specific. There's a line in the contract that says, this is an investment, and there's, you know, illegal speak, but you could lose everything. And that's the truth. You know,

Alex Ferrari 35:00
you have to you have to do that. Now let me ask you a question with these kinds of genre movies in your experience how are they being accepted by distributors like I know there was a big run on horror and a big run on sci fi, you know, these kind of genre movies still being accepted and actually still being needed in the in the in the in the marketplace.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 35:19
I think there's fans for them. But the reason I did shotguns on the first place was I saw a sci fi was doing a buy. And I heard the numbers that we're paying. And this is like three years ago, they were paying anywhere from from 253 50 to like half a mil or more and a bit because they would give you incentives on ratings. And that just doesn't exist anymore. I mean, and that right now I'm going through that right now, where my domestic sales guy is telling me, you know, people aren't buying. And what's happening is even Netflix, they're investing in creating original content, which is good. But then we're back to having to pitch and that's what I want to avoid. So really, I'm entering a phase where Attack of the killer doughnuts, I hate to save my, I'd be my last horror comedy. And because I'm really going to go even lower budget in the end, what I really like, like I said is my world is more Noir, more that kind of, you know, Reservoir Dogs that even Pulp Fiction, or or Fassbinder or that sort of, that's where I'm gonna go on. It's very realistic. I like as a director because I'm a writer, that's what I am and then I'm producer by nature and director by necessity and, and I'm going to direct and I'm what I like, how I like to direct is very, like voyeuristic camera. I don't I don't like camera moves. I don't like handheld. I want it to be almost like there's certain Robert Altman movies if you see a chance to see the company. Oh, yeah. See the whole movie, and you don't realize, oh, man, I just saw a movie. I don't like to be taken out of the experience I want you to think you're seeing in real life. So very minimalistic, not too much music. Music is great. And it does it enhances a film. But it's still a film. When you see an indie low budget movie, and there's no music, man, that's really happening. You know? Yeah. So that that's what I'm going to embrace. And that's what I'm looking at that and also documentaries. I'm in post production on a documentary right now and I'm prepping for another one.

Alex Ferrari 37:15
They actually sell all the time, and they sell and they travel very well. From my understanding. Yes, big

Rafael Diaz Wagner 37:21
time. That's what they're cheaper to make. And there's a there's a demand form, you know, and I was lucky to speak to Billy Corbin that he's the one who did Cocaine Cowboys, and he wanted me for the you. And he's a Miami guy. And again, I just heard you talk to Billy Corbin I co called them Yep. And he's you know, he's the kind of guy that he'll answer the phone you know, and his assistant said, you know, he only has half an hour at this day this time. And I was like alright, I'll do it and he ended up talking to me for over an hour and just you know, picking his brain he was I was telling him I want to go into documentaries and what do you recommend on this net? And he was like, yeah, and they're they're selling you know, Netflix wants them everybody wants them so it's the way to go and it's for my type of shooting Like I said, I don't I wasn't trained as a director I don't think oh, let's move the camera here and then you have more documentary and you have already more cinema Verity so I might as well just stick to that so

Alex Ferrari 38:12
yeah, that's that's the thing a lot of a lot of people don't understand that. That documentaries are doing really well and have been doing well for a long time. And you're and I've, I've know, I know guys who've made over a million dollars self distributing their documentaries. Because of that, because of the the whole the cause and finding a cause behind the documentary and then everyone jumps on board.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 38:38
Sorry, look at Adam Carolla. Adam Carolla did a documentary on Paul Newman. And then he's self distributing. Not because nobody wanted a movie, but he's taking the middleman out of it. Oh, he has a million followers on that podcast. Yep, he put he put it up on a thing called VHS. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 38:55
of course I have my stuff on VHS as well there. I

Rafael Diaz Wagner 38:57
love VHS and it's he's selling directly so he has a million followers. If 10% of his people buy it, that's 100,000 times 14 that's $1.4 million in his pocket not to a distributor you know you can't beat that.

Alex Ferrari 39:11
No, absolutely. And then on top of that, then you can go to Amazon Video direct directly and start popping it up on there. You can do Vimeo pro I mean there's so many revenue streams now for but you need that audience is what I preach all the time. You need an audience

Rafael Diaz Wagner 39:25
that's the key and then now the range 15 guys, I don't know if you know about Oh, it's a range. 15 is this movie made by its ex Special Forces guys that they have a clothing line at two separate groups, and they combined and they made a zombie movie. And they have a huge following because it's a loyal fan base. And then they went to Indiegogo and they asked for 350,000 and they ended up getting a million and change. Wow. So yeah, so then and what they did is you know, instead of paying we get to make money, no they threw everything at the screen. So they got William Shatner, Sean asked Then, David Keith, I think Danny Trejo might be in of course, sure.

Alex Ferrari 40:04
I think by law, Danny has to be in every movie.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 40:09
And they put it they put it in theaters they use I don't remember. I'm sorry which one they use, but they use them. So we were taught, you have to, yeah, we had the pre sell certain amount of tickets. And if you make it, they'll put it into theaters. And then now they're self distributing. And they're using a distributor also,

Alex Ferrari 40:27
yeah, distributors. And another awesome I'm actually going to be doing a bunch of stuff with distributor in the future, because they're actually cool. They do. They allow you to kill the middleman. And you can go directly to all the online platforms, and VOD and cable VOD as well.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 40:42
Yeah, it's up to you. I mean, there are there are fees and it's not their fees. It's you know, it's not distributed taking their their cut. They have a very small fee. It's, it's, it's Yeah, so But the thing is, like I said before, you have to as a filmmaker, if you're gonna make a movie, look into distributor beforehand, and see how much money you're gonna need to save for that, and tuck that away. So that when your movie is made, you can do it as opposed to now Hey, I want to be a distributor. I can't afford it. You know, so Right,

Alex Ferrari 41:09
exactly. And then it's also about just, just understanding marketing, understanding a distribution plan, understanding all of that stuff, you make your movie and, and keeping that budget low enough that you can make your money back.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 41:21
Definitely. I mean, I think the budgets are gonna get lower and lower. donatos under 500,000 we shot shark and saw for under 300,000 if you believe that, and I think the budgets are going lower than that. I mean, depending on what you get, you know, you throw money at me, I'll make a movie. It doesn't matter how much money I just it, you can't make the same movie for the same amount of money. You almost have to be like, like food, like deconstructed. It's like, okay, we only have 150,000 Can we make a movie? Yes. there's not gonna be any stars in it. And what do we have? What are our assets? Well, I got three blank guns. A friend has a Ferrari you know so you just start to what do we got then that's what the movies

Alex Ferrari 42:07
you've got you go down the Robert Rodriguez with and mariachi way of doing things, which is like, what do you have? Let's write a script around all your assets. Exactly. And that's the smartest way of going about it. That's what I did with Meg. I literally just looked around like, Alright, I have access to these, this, this, this and this. That's what we're making a movie about. And let's go. Now, let me ask you, from your experience in distribution, what what like as far as foreign sales are concerned, are there? Are there specific countries that like genre movies, more or less you know, what are your What can you tell us any stories from the distribution of worldwide distribution experiences that you've had?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 42:47
Unfortunately, everybody wants names now. So when you if you make a known like, not, not with anybody named any names, movie, even genre, it's, it's hard. Japan, Japan always likes monster movies. Germany loves anything American. They're very kind. And ironically, of course, the two territories we've already sold as Germany and Japan, so but they're both very big markets in the big picture yet, then there's, we're an English speaking movie. So England is always going to be big, but then the other ones. It's kind of tough. It depends how much again, if it was a straight horror slasher movie, I think it would maybe have more legs if you had a nudity. But this is horror comedy. So you know, which is always a tough sell in general, it was very, very people are like, why are you doing that? It's like, well, that's just what we're doing here. So that's where it's a little slow coming. And then it's almost like does domestic, you know, if you make it big and domestic, then does that turn into foreign but believe it or not more and more the domestic market USA and foreign, it's splitting, it's a road and they're not meeting and it's just totally different. Like there's movies that are bombing here, and they're rockin in China. And then it's like, what, what's more important,

Alex Ferrari 43:59
you know, like Warcraft, Warcraft was an absolute bomb here. But, but overseas, it It killed?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 44:06
Yeah, and not only genre movies, but sometimes, you know, the, the more the more dramas, stuff like that, that it's that's a nightmare to sell here. But they're into that informed and something that I like, and it comes back from my live video days is I love foreign movies. So I get the I know these actors, it's like, well, I recognize this guy, I recognize that guy. And if you have an opportunity, again, it all depends on cost. But this one guy, let's say you're doing a movie, and it's the chef, instead of just putting a known name chef. If you can get this guy who's in Germany, but he hasn't made an American movie. Now when you go sell it, hey, Germany might be a little bit more

Alex Ferrari 44:42
interested. And they give you a lot. You know, there's

Rafael Diaz Wagner 44:44
a big German star. Exactly, or this person who's, again, remember everybody wants to play here. Like in Miami. The big thing is, there's telenovela stars left or right, they want to break into the market. You know, again, unfortunately, Latin America is not so big as a Europe In other countries but it's still Hey, it's still my how exactly and I got a I got so and so on this you know and a lot of these telenovela stars are like me either they were born here so they have zero accent

Alex Ferrari 45:11
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. So yeah, I was I was I did a movie with Kate del Castillo and Eva Longoria and they sold it in South America huge because gate gate that let's get la Castillo before the whole choppy thing. Yeah. No one knew or really as much here in the States but she is she's a monster over in South America.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 45:43
Yeah. And even here in some he in the states domestically for some markets. Like there's there's a story of I don't know if you know, Carlos Ponce's

Alex Ferrari 45:51
of I know Carlos. Yeah, actually, I've never worked with him. But I've met him a couple times. He's awesome.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 45:56
nicest guy in the world he was in for people who are out there he was in Couples Retreat is the shredded guy in the speedos accident.

Alex Ferrari 46:03
He was also on that crystella TV show started that as well. Yeah, he's super sweet guy, super sweet guy.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 46:10
And he says a story once that he went with I don't remember what big time actor they were in LA and they're having lunch or whatever. And somehow they went to a restaurant and who works in the back of the restaurant. You know, somebody took a peek into like, oh my god appoints it and the entire kitchen comes out. And they're like, Can we take a picture? And the guy the actor he's with thinks it's with him. And the guy hands him the camera. He's like, you know, with Carlos and then they take a picture and then they go back and they and I forget who the name of the actor is. He's he tells Carlos Hey, dude, how old are you? He's like, Hey, man, I'm big.

Alex Ferrari 46:42
I'm huge just right here but huge big in the kitchen. Yeah, Carlos is his couponado right?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 46:50
He's a Cuban parents born in Puerto Rico. Okay, Cuban parents in Puerto Rico so and he's he's excellent at accents in Spanish or English. Like in Spanish man. How cool from neutral. To Cuban to Mexican to Argentinian to it's like, Papa, He's really good.

Alex Ferrari 47:05
He works all the time. He's one of them. works all the time. And he was born with ridiculously good looks. Like absurd absurdly good looks for a man. It's ridiculous. So let me ask you one. Like, if you had one, if you had a classroom of fresh, I'd wondered, like sparkly eyes. I want to be in Hollywood, kind of film students. What would you say to them before they got launched into a film career.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 47:36
Right now what I would tell them is Shoot, shoot, shoot, always be shooting. If you wait for the script is too good. I can't do it. Now. you blink and 10 years passed by and you haven't done anything. You know, I just this last weekend. Jonas Trevor was in town. When he spoke. He's a director and his father's been under through who won the Oscar for Best Foreign Film for about a book, then he's like in his 20s. And he's making movies now he's made four movies. And this is a man who has a name in Europe. I mean, he he can get people to give him money. And one of the movies he did took him seven months, because he was trying to get funding. And he got tired of that. And he's like you don't want I'm going to get together with a group of people, Mike, my core keys, which is six people. And we're going to shoot for free. And we're going to shoot one day for six hours. And I don't know when we'll shoot again. But this day, we'll shoot for six hours. And he did that for seven months. 22 shooting days, and he got a movie. Now if I tell you let's make a movie and seven months, that's a nightmare.

Alex Ferrari 48:38
Oh my god, can you imagine it just did you just have to do what's the the endurance, you have to just keep that momentum going?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 48:47
Oh, but the flipside is, it's September now. And what have I shot this year? Nothing. If I would have done the same thing starting in January and said, I'm going to one day a week, just one day a week we're going to shoot something for free. What would I have by now, you know, and to students who don't have money who don't have a you know, if you're a student still in school, you have an arsenal of equipment at your disposal. I mean, University of Miami has, you know, some of the movies I've shot. That's, that's how I shot it because my dp worked for us. So I mean, if you're young, and you have that, you know, shoot, always be shooting and don't be afraid to shoot something that's not as good. That's what being in your 20s of being in film school is all about, you know, experiment. Now that's the problem with film, I think, in general that, you know, Picasso didn't wake up. But when he was 12, and said, Hey, Cubism No, he was classically trained. And it took me years to get to that. As filmmakers, we don't get an opportunity to experiment and to grow, because everything has to be a hit, and it's too much money, and that's too bad. I think we need that. And that's

Alex Ferrari 49:50
what and that's the thing that I actually mentioned before is on the show, as well as that I use the analogy of baseball, where everyone, anytime you walk up to the plate, filmmakers think they have to hit a homerun. But they only go up to the plate once every two or three years. But those guys that go up all the time and you know what they might be singles but every single gets you closer to that home run and you just got to get up to the plate and by getting up to the plate you just got to keep shooting got to keep making and don't worry if it doesn't turn out great All right, you've learned and you move on and that's something that it takes years and you know you and I are both from the same vintage so I think that's something you learn with age you know we you know I'm in my 20s I couldn't I couldn't even fathom that but it's something that as you get older you're just like you know what what's the worst that will happen you make a movie that doesn't doesn't do everything you want it to do but it's okay. You made a mistake every one of these every one of these big directors all made mistakes every one of them and they learn

Rafael Diaz Wagner 50:49
and it's getting to you it's getting you to where you want to go it's getting to that point look at Mark Douglas he said that you know he he's the he should be the inspiration for everybody out there. Yeah, that speech he said at South by Southwest Two years ago we said the Calvary is not coming. Those days. If you're going to Sundance we're going to write a check for $3 million are not going to happen and he knew that so what he was is instead of being good, I'm going to be prolific. And he went him and Swanberg yeah just Rosberg, Lynn Shelton that whole crew right that mumblecore group they were cranking out you know three four sometimes Swanberg five movies in one year, one

Alex Ferrari 51:23
year he did seven that was just you know, crazy

Rafael Diaz Wagner 51:27
man. But it's feature films again, you know, I'm sometimes I'm a little harsh on people do shorts. Yeah. But it's because a feature film is something you could sell. It's real. You know, I'm not saying I'm not knocking shorts, if you do a short that's great. You know, you're still shooting. But you do a Swanberg or a Douglas, and you crank that for five years, let's say for movies for five years. Hey, after five years, you get 20 feature films under your belt? Someone's gonna someone's gonna take notice.

Alex Ferrari 51:51
Yeah, no, that's the thing and that's what's winesburg said like it took him about I think probably about four or five features, shooting on VHS like you know, on many DVDs and stuff like that didn't care about sound. I think that whole mumble core movement is kind of the inspiration for what I did with Meg. But at a hopefully at a higher production quality than they did when they first started within the when they first started out. But the technology now you could just go out and shoot man, you just can't just go on. Shoot. It's, it's crazy, man. It really is crazy. But that's great advice.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 52:20
I've gotten I will. And as a matter of fact, there's 10 to 20 film festivals around the world split specifically only for stuff you shoot with an iPhone or with with your phone. So that's, you know, oh, I don't have a camera, no money. You got a phone. They sell lenses a lens, little mini lens package for phones for like 40 bucks. So there's no excuse, you know, no, it's not going to be pretty, but it's something.

Alex Ferrari 52:44
I mean, look at tangerine. And I use tangerina all the time when Shaun Baker did who won Sundance shot on that iPhone. But a lot of people thought that like Oh, now I can go shoot a movie with an iPhone. I'm like, Well, if you want it to look like tangerine, you really got to do your homework and understand what he did. But you can do it. He did it. You can do it. As long as it works for the story that you're trying to tell. If you're trying to make Transformers The iPhone might be right. Yeah, but if you're making a character piece, it's fine. It's great. It's absolutely great. So my friend I asked the same questions of all of my guests. Last two questions. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film business or in life

Rafael Diaz Wagner 53:25
to just do it? Like I said, I've spoken to agents and ca I've spoken to Billy Corbin I spoken to two other people and I just picked up the phone and call called the worst that can happen is no and also just to be persistent. My favorite word is relentless. I won't stop one investor that invested in one of my films. I would email him in the morning and call them at night every day for nine days straight including Sunday and one day he said like we have to meet You're driving me crazy and I'm like good because if you don't say no I'm coming after you

Alex Ferrari 53:59
oh no so if you see if you would have said no you would have stopped

Rafael Diaz Wagner 54:03
if he says no yes I would have stopped unless I feel like maybe they're just a little bit more but yeah, you're gonna see a hard to know

Alex Ferrari 54:11
sometimes no really mates baby.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 54:13
Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 54:16
Now what are three of your favorite films of all time?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 54:20
Oh, this is a difficult question because there's so many good ones.

Alex Ferrari 54:23
But three That tickles your fancy today's

Rafael Diaz Wagner 54:26
there's just something you just have to mention. I mean my all time favorite is Casa Blanca because you see it now and yeah, there's midgets in the background and it's a miniature and yeah, he did so much with so little thing about there's no sex in it. I mean, it took me years to figure out Oh, Rick, did sleep with her. But you know, it's so subtle. I didn't know that. But it's just it's such a great movie and it's I don't know if we have those kind of decisions or that kind of like love and a cause now Is there a cause you would really do that for Hell no. So Casa Blanca, definitely number one. more modern godfather I think that's just such a masterpiece. Yeah. And then God I gotta go I click that cuz I love like, like foreign films and stuff like that. So I think I almost got to go breathless by genre, some crazy film and the thing is it's very it's a flawed film and it's not perfect, and people see it now sometimes younger people are like, I don't get it. I'm like, you know what, go watch another French movie from 1959. Or like pillow talk from 1959, where it's like they're in separate beds, and it's polished turd. We're breathless is so real. And it's like, if you watch that movie, and it doesn't inspire you to go out and shoot something, you're not a filmmaker.

Alex Ferrari 55:45
Now, and I'll tell you to make a point to that. And again, since you and I are both at the same vintage and I wanted to ask you this, this has happened to me, where when you see something when you're in your teens or 20s, and you don't get it, but in your 30s, you might start feeling a little bit, but maybe in your 40s I'm not saying you're in your 40s but, but I'm 42 Okay, Sammy, so you're the exact same vintage as I am. So now you're in your early 40s and you watch a movie like Eyes Wide Shut, where when it came out in 99, you might have gone don't don't get it but don't get it or you watch Clockwork Orange, or you watch just using Stanley Kubrick references but but those kind of movies that you know that age well, and they age like in other words, like great art should change as you grow. So looking at the Mona Lisa, when you're 15 should be a lot different than when you look at it when you're in your 50s different appreciation different kind of kendo kind of sort of have the rip it down like that. Yeah,

Rafael Diaz Wagner 56:53
and also taking like I said things instant in context. Like for example, there's some younger guys now that see Pulp Fiction, they're like, Oh, yeah, it's alright. It's alright, because it's been so redone afterwards.

Alex Ferrari 57:05
My father like the Godfather, yeah,

Rafael Diaz Wagner 57:07
put it in 1994. And you're like, wow, like brother. Plus 1959 you're like, Whoa, you know, I mean, certain things like coming home. How hardly in 19 I don't remember for 6970 around there. I mean, let's let's put this into perspective. There's a scene where I'm counting cow what's Angelina Jolie's dad's name is john boy Oh, boy. Yeah. Jon Voight is eating out Jane Fonda. Let me let me repeat that he's having he's performing oral sex on Jane Fonda. This is an R rated movie in the cinema. Nominated for Best Picture. I think he won Best Actor for that. Now fast forward to 2016 you can't put a freakin boob on TV. I mean on the movies, like I mean, what is it? How is that possible that we've regressed so much? You know, but definitely definitely what you said some movies age better, like back in 94. Again, Pulp Fiction Forrest Gump. I mean, I was in the pulp fiction camp all the way. Now, you asked me which is the best one and you know what? It might be Shawshank Redemption. It might be nobody talks.

Alex Ferrari 58:11
Oh, no, it is starting it. I mean, I mean, don't get me wrong. Let's not talk about if Pulp Fiction is better than full force or better than than Shawshank, but Shawshank is one of those movies that holds and will hold for eternity. While I think Pulp Fiction You're right. It was of that moment. And it was a it was a nuclear bomb that went off. While Shawshank was not that nuclear bomb. He was the tortoise and that tortoise has been slowly to now on IMDB. It's ranked higher than godfather as the best movie of all time. And a lot of people, a lot of people put it up there with the frickin godfather. Because it is just one of those movies. He's just watching. Just go Okay, this is as perfect of a movie as you can get for my opinion. You know, and I think I'm not I'm not I'm not alone on that. But yeah, that definitely, that definitely happens. And like, from our time, you know, I thought Bloodsport was the greatest movie of all time when I saw. Now don't get me wrong, Bloodsport frickin rocks, man. It's still it's

Rafael Diaz Wagner 59:11
like, I don't know Bloodsport. But how many movies are there that you remember as a kid and think this movie's awesome and you see it now and it's heartbreaking like oh my god it's so bad

Alex Ferrari 59:22
I mean, hard to kill. I'm gonna go down to Steven Seagal junk club on campus all of those movies when they came out I was just like does it double impact this is awesome this is great and then you're like oh like I remember when that you watch it like it's on TNT or something as you're you know watching when that you like how much that doesn't hold doesn't hold well

Rafael Diaz Wagner 59:43
to that pop up is Flash Gordon you remember that?

Alex Ferrari 59:46
Oh God Jesus man Flash Gordon. That did not act well at all.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 59:51
And crawl. Oh my god. Oh

Alex Ferrari 59:52
my god, bro. Like I still only remember it being the most awesome movie of all time. When I saw I don't watch it. Never going to To watch it Liam Neeson was in that was he Liam Neeson? A young Liam Neeson was one of the like sub sub characters like he's one of the like this co stars of that movie if you go back but yeah crawl for anyone who that I'm gonna put links of the description to these films in the show notes guys because crawl arguably was the greatest movie of all time when like it was just like absolutely amazing I remember

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:00:26
speaking sorry speaking of Liam Neeson I have the Miami Vice episode he was Oh yeah.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:32
Anyone know if you guys watched Miami Vice anyone listening? Everybody who's a big star walk through Miami Vice doors for those to be like everybody Bruce Willis, Helena Bonham Carter, Liam Neeson and then there's 1000s of names I just don't remember off the top of my head. But all alums Phil obviously Phil Collins. There was a movie I'm and I'm going to geek out for a second Do you remember watching a movie called showdown A Little Tokyo?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:00:55
Oh, that don't wait, don't tell me that is Dolph Lundgren. Yeah, and Bruce Lee's Brandon Lee

Alex Ferrari 1:01:01
the late the late Brandon Lee Yes, yeah. Greatest action movie I'd ever seen at that point. I literally remember watching it stopped it at the end of the VHS rewound it watched it again. It was just like such a great film. And I've seen it lately and you know it just it's camping out now. It's just like all that kind of nostalgic campy, it holds better surprisingly than a lot of 80s action.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:01:22
Well, I mean, if we're gonna geek out I'm gonna go into martial arts route.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:26
Oh, let's go Jim. Jim.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:01:31
No showdown A Little Tokyo. What I'm saying is if you really want to see authentic jeet kune do, which is the form that Bruce Lee developed showdown Little Tokyo is probably I don't know if they've done something after that. But that was the best example of G kundo. Because what Brandon Lee is doing is g kundo. And if you don't know martial arts, it's gonna it's very similar doesn't goes over your head, but it's a lot of like front lead. A lot of like, the name of G kundo means the way of the intercepting fist. So the whole concept was not to do the traditional kung fu masters like whoa and a lot of movies it was just more direct. But if you know if your martial arts enthusiast and you want to see real g condo that's, that's where

Alex Ferrari 1:02:10
did he do it in rapid fire as well.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:02:13
He did. Well, he did anything that has Brandon Lee, that he did that.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:18
He only unfortunately only had a few movies. And the crow Of course, whoever has not seen the crow the original I know they're talking about remaking it, but they shouldn't be

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:02:28
the first one. Why? Why do they make remakes? I mean,

Alex Ferrari 1:02:32
don't get me. Don't get me started. I'm MacGyver the new show. Come on lethal weapon. A show. reel. I

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:02:38
don't get that.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:39
Come on. Come on. Sorry. Sorry, guys. We have gone off the rails. We've just started to geek out.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:02:48
Before we go like another movie, I have to recommend PT Anderson. Mm hmm. Of course love me. I mean, Paul Thomas Anderson. He has a lot of great movies. Go see Hard Eight, his first movie? Oh, yeah, that's my favorite movie of his I own it. And I'll pop it in. I've seen that movie like 12 times. Because it's so subtle. And it's so how to make a good small movie. Yes, Gwyneth Paltrow has done it. And they have some names and ends and Samuel Jackson, whatever, but but look at the filming. Look at the shots. And a lot of times another advice that I give out when I really want to see shots in a movies. I'll watch a movie in mute. Yep. Because then then you know, you're not following the stories just visually, like I saw with my wife. I went to the movies to see what is this movie? Scott? The movie with with Michael Fassbender, that he's an attorney.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:43
Not the not the anatomy crews,

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:03:45
the counselor. Oh, the counselor.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:47
Do you remember the counselor? That there was a Ridley Scott movie,

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:03:50
wasn't it? Yes, Ridley Scott. It was such a mess. My wife leaned into me and said, Do you understand what's going on? And I whispered, and I said no, but look how pretty it is. It was and I was really it's really Yeah, when this comes out on DVD. Yeah, I'm so gonna watch this and mute and really enjoy it because it was just, the script is just a mess. I'm like, What is going on? I don't get it. But there's a scene when he sees the Mexican lawyer. It's a Rembrandt. I mean, what he does with lighting is fantastic.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:18
No, I mean, but Ridley Scott, I mean, he's Yeah, he's a living legend. And I hope he continues to make there's a few directors that I hope that can that are with us like Clint Eastwood. I hope he's with us for a while longer, because every time he does something, it's just you know, for the most part he always does amazing stuff. Ridley is one of those guys Spielberg Of course, though, I heard BFG was a little off.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:04:40
I hit this. We were on such a good note. I don't want to be a hater, but I've never been a real Spielberg fan.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:47
Alright, so that'd be the end of the episode guys. Thank you. So calm jack and Joe

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:04:52
is a great filmmaker. Because what he does good is when he wants you to cry, you're gonna cry when he wants you to jump. You're gonna jump. He is a good filmmaker. I Just don't like his his style that's that's all it is like for example, I would like what I was saying like when I film I don't want you to know him there and move my camera around here. He always has to have a little something where he lets you know hey, I'm here like for example, this is a big pet peeve of mine. Catch Me If You Can great movie Leonardo DiCaprio, the big climactic scene he's packing the money in the second store and they're gonna run out and that money floats away where you know you had to do that with CGI because money doesn't do that it's like why did you do that? Why are you taking me away from the film you know, but in his style but the style no yeah i mean that's that's that's just taste you know? Sure is the fence if you see Munich which is a dark film it's very not like Steven Spielberg it's just shot incredibly that's that's an incredible movie to it. It's really dark.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:48
Yeah, and jaws of course is still Yeah, jaws again.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:05:51
It's the perfect You know, you're not gonna see the monster and you're still gonna be very scared you're gonna jump what I tell you to jump he he's great at that credit where credit is due

Alex Ferrari 1:05:59
and just holds I mean for movies. There's not a lot of movies from the 70s that hold today?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:06:05
Well, depends I mean, there's a lot of like the 70s was the golden age of like, this is you're talking late 70s one week

Alex Ferrari 1:06:11
yeah, yeah. Taxi Driver. Yeah, taxi driver is the writer those things but like, just like the effect, like, like Pulp Fiction was a very specific movie in the 90s that kind of blew up and there's like taxi drive taxi driver still holds very, very well. These are masterpieces. Obviously all of the godfathers in the 70s but jaws as a horror movie. Like how many how many Thriller Horror movies from the 70s hold today? You know, it's a very short

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:06:38
book Yeah, they're not that good

Alex Ferrari 1:06:41
yeah, this Yeah, something that just would still like if I pop that in it'll still scare the hell out of you and it's just done so well. So so so well, but anyway, we have gone completely off the rails. No worries. So where where can people find you online?

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:06:56
Well on Twitter and Instagram it's blackphone Miami ra FAMI ami Rafa Miami and then that's pretty much what I put out there it's I try to keep it either very positive Phil will make I don't get into politics or anything like that or just everyday life like there's a an Instagram I can have will be now that I'm drinking or stuff like that. And then Attack of the killer doughnuts we're gonna conclude our festival run and hopefully be available at by the end of the year, if not December, January around that time, and probably I won't point a VHS because I love VHS. I can't talk enough about it.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:31
No VHS is a great again if you have that. It's it's a great platform if you have an audience and if you can drive traffic if you can drive traffic it's I mean, I would if I can send a million people to VHS I would self distribute everything.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:07:43
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There's not even a million and that's nothing like before we go like a good point to put out there have you got to build your audience and really in this day and age, what you need is 10,000 true fans there's there's a business Trapper that

Alex Ferrari 1:07:57
that's actually 1000 true fans. Oh, there you go. It's the tech the it's based on the the the article from the founder of Wired Magazine. It's 1000 true fans 1000 true fans, I could pay you 10 bucks a month on 100 bucks a year. 100 bucks

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:08:11
100 bucks a year whether it's one one thing for 110 for 10 because then it's 100,000 I say 10,000 because then you start flirting with that, you know 10% failure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so right yeah, you gotta get you got to get them out because I there's there's models that have millions of followers on Instagram, and I used one of them for a project and I'm like, well, temporary. Sen followers, and it's like, that doesn't translate you have to have true fans. No, right? true fans are

Alex Ferrari 1:08:36
exactly just because you're you know, a beautiful girl on Instagram, you have 3 million followers. Like I was talking to somebody the other day about it. Like if you put Kim Kardashian in a movie. That doesn't mean anything. Yeah, it doesn't. She has 77 million followers on Instagram and Twitter and all that stuff doesn't mean a thing. You know, it doesn't it really doesn't mean a thing. So it's all it's about true fans, people who really, really care about what you're doing as an artist, or as a company depending So, my friend I won't take up any more your time, brother. Thank you so much for for being on the hustle, man. Thanks so much.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:09:09
I know thank you and I look forward to seeing you in LA in person. I'll probably be there for you FM in November, so

Alex Ferrari 1:09:14
Alright, sounds good brother well see you soon.

Rafael Diaz Wagner 1:09:16
Bye Bye

Alex Ferrari 1:09:18
Man Attack of the killer doughnuts. That's all I have to say. You guys gotta go check it out. Make sure you check out the show notes at indie film hustle.com Ford slash 108. You have links to all of his movies I think we talked about on the show, and so on. So definitely check it out and check out Raphael's other work as well. But back to the killer donuts, man. Seriously, it's got you just got to love it, man. Gotta love it. And I love doing what I do here at any film hustle. Because you get to meet so many amazing people from different walks of life with different creative visions, and getting their art out there man. However they want to do it. So it's pretty it's pretty crazy. So don't forget to head over to filmmaking podcast calm and leave me A good review for the show guys please, it really does help us out a lot getting the word out on what we do at the indie film, hustle and getting the hustle out to as many filmmakers as humanly possible. It is my goal in life to help you, the filmmaker, you the artists to get your work, get your your art out there, man. And as I've always said, It is your responsibility to get your art out there because you have no idea how it can change someone's life. Keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, and I'll talk to you soon.

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