There is something beautifully unpredictable about independent filmmaking. A movie can arrive with enormous expectations and disappear within months, while another film made with almost no money, questionable equipment, and a group of inexperienced filmmakers can somehow survive for generations. Few films demonstrate that better than Manos: The Hands of Fate. Jackey Neyman was only six years old when she appeared in the film, giving her a front-row seat to a production that would eventually become one of the most infamous cult movies ever made. Jackey is an actress, artist, and producer who not only witnessed the creation of Manos but decades later returned to its strange cinematic universe to help create Manos Returns.
The original Manos production represents independent filmmaking stripped down to its most basic ingredients: people, whatever equipment they could access, and an almost unreasonable determination to finish a movie. Jackey’s father was involved in community theater when filmmaker Hal Warren approached him about the project. The production needed a little girl, so six-year-old Jackey joined the cast. But her family contributed considerably more than performances. Her father was also responsible for sets, props, and costumes, while the production borrowed their furniture, car, and even their Doberman. There wasn’t an elaborate production infrastructure surrounding the movie. Jackey remembers the cast keeping their bag lunches in an old refrigerator because there was no craft service. Most of the filming happened at night or on weekends. For a young Jackey, however, that environment provided an early education in the difference between what happens in front of the camera and the enormous amount of activity audiences never see.
Then came the premiere—and perhaps the first indication that Manos wasn’t going to become the movie everyone hoped. Warren certainly knew how to manufacture excitement. There were searchlights outside the theater, a red carpet, a limousine, local officials, and even autograph seekers. Jackey and her father found seats roughly five rows from the screen. As the film began, however, the atmosphere changed. The audience started reacting to what they were seeing, first with whispers and then with laughter. Jackey was simply excited to see herself in a movie until her character appeared. Hearing herself on screen horrified her. She remembers her face becoming hot before she burst into tears and sat through the remainder of the premiere miserable.
Yet there is another side to the story that independent filmmakers should appreciate. According to Jackey, Warren understood that he wasn’t making a great movie—but he was still attempting to make the best movie he could. More importantly, Manos wasn’t supposed to be his final achievement. Warren imagined the film as the beginning of something larger. He believed the production might demonstrate that El Paso could support filmmaking and potentially help establish a local film industry. That ambition may have exceeded his resources and experience, but the instinct behind it remains familiar to indie filmmakers everywhere. Sometimes the first movie isn’t supposed to be the masterpiece. Sometimes its purpose is simply to prove that you can finish one.
After Manos disappeared, nearly everyone involved tried to move on. Jackey says nobody wanted to talk about the movie, and for years she believed she would never see it again. Then something happened that no filmmaker involved in the original production could possibly have planned: Mystery Science Theater 3000 aired the movie. Suddenly, Manos had an audience. The film’s technical shortcomings and bizarre creative choices became exactly what made people fascinated by it. What had once been an embarrassment slowly transformed into cult-film history. Fans started discussing it, creating artwork, staging productions, and building an entire culture around a movie that had essentially been forgotten.
Eventually that audience created an opportunity almost nobody could have predicted: making another Manos movie. But Jackey and the team behind Manos Returns faced an unusual creative problem. How do you follow a movie famous largely because of its mistakes? Their answer was not to deliberately make another bad film. Jackey explains that the original couldn’t simply be recreated because its strange qualities came from an earnest attempt by inexperienced filmmakers to make something ambitious. Instead, Manos Returns would acknowledge that history while becoming its own movie. Jackey returned, her father filmed scenes at age 80, and the filmmakers sought ways to reconnect the new production with surviving members and families from the original.
Getting the sequel made also demonstrates how dramatically independent filmmaking has changed. Instead of relying entirely on traditional investors, the filmmakers launched a Kickstarter campaign with a base goal of $24,000. Jackey quickly discovered that running a crowdfunding campaign could become a full-time job. Rachel Jackson managed the Kickstarter and press outreach alongside Jackey and director Tonjia Atomic. Director of photography Joe Sherlock contributed graphics, while editor and screenwriter Steve Foley worked on campaign videos. The team divided responsibilities rather than expecting one filmmaker to somehow manage production, publicity, crowdfunding, editing, graphics, and social media simultaneously. For filmmakers considering crowdfunding, that may be one of the most practical lessons in the conversation: the campaign itself is a production.
The filmmakers also understood exactly what additional funding could accomplish. Their experienced low-budget team believed they could make the movie at the base level, but additional money could improve costumes, expand the production, bring in more collaborators, and ultimately put greater production value on the screen. That’s the reality of indie filmmaking. A larger budget doesn’t automatically create a better movie, but additional resources in the hands of experienced filmmakers can buy time, flexibility, talent, and options. Jackey’s philosophy remained straightforward: whatever amount they raised, they were going to make the best film possible with it.
Perhaps that’s why the story of Jackey Neyman and Manos: The Hands of Fate remains so fascinating for filmmakers. The original movie failed by almost every conventional measurement, disappeared for decades, and then somehow returned to become more culturally recognizable than countless technically superior films from the same era. Its second life created books, artwork, stage productions, fan communities, and eventually another feature film. Filmmakers spend enormous amounts of energy trying to predict what audiences will want, but Manos is a reminder that once a movie enters the world, its journey can become completely unpredictable. You can’t guarantee that your film will succeed. You can’t guarantee critics will understand it. You can’t even guarantee that audiences will find it when you release it. The one thing you can control is whether you actually finish the damn movie and give it a chance to find an audience.
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Alex Ferrari 1:32
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Dave Bullis 1:55
Joining me today is J Jackey is an actress and producer known for Manos: The Hands of Fate, Manos, the Rise of Torgo, the upcoming Manos Returns, which is currently on Kickstarter, and also the upcoming book, Growing Up with Manos, the Hands of Fate. Jackey, how are you?
Jackey Neyman 2:11
I'm great, Dave. Nice to be here.
Dave Bullis 2:13
Oh, you know, thank you so much for coming by. You know, normally the first question I ask anybody is, "How did you get into the film business, but for you, Jackie, I actually already know the answer to that. But for those of you who aren't listening, Jackie was in Manos, the hands of fate. But I, you know what, Jackie, if you could, could you just please take us through, you know, how you got into Manos, and you know, and sort of how you how your career progressed from there.
Jackey Neyman 2:40
Sure. Well, I was a child. I was I was six years old, turning seven when Manos was filmed, and my dad got was in community theater. And Hal Warren, who who created Manos, approached my dad, and and they needed a little girl, and so it's quite convenient for the main actor, the star, the guy who was also doing all the sets, props, and costumes for Manos to also provide the child, and oh, and the Doberman and the car, and a lot of our furniture too. But I got into it because my dad came home one day and he said, "Honey, I'm doing a movie and they need a little girl. Would you, would you like to be that little girl? And you know, I was very young and shy, and and I was kind of terrified at that thought. But then the next thing he said was, "Well, it's okay, honey. If you if you don't, we'll just get another little girl. Well, that's not going to fly. So of course, I I had to do it.
Dave Bullis 3:48
So you know, when you were filming Manos, obviously you were a child. Did you have any fun fun experiences while filming that, or anything that was just so out of the ordinary? Or because I mean, I imagine you know you you this was your first, you know, acting role, right? At the at that point, so I mean, you know, I'm sure this was an entirely new world for you, even at that young age.
Jackey Neyman 4:08
Well, it was, and it wasn't because my dad had been in theater, community theater, since you know, since I was a baby, and so I was very used to him playing different characters, and and I was already very familiar with the theater and backstage, and and I just I loved it all. And this was a very different experience, but it was particularly you know a focus for me that I was the only child on the set, and so, for instance, when the Manic Manor women there, the wives were there. They're all like 18 to 20 years old. So to them, I was kind of fun, you know, a little girl. It's like a living doll to have around. So they kind of fussed over me, and. And then I I remember being well aware that things that were being filmed were the only things being seen by the audience, and so I felt very privileged to be to know what was going on behind the scenes. You know that I knew that we kept all the all the costumes in the closet in the bedroom, and that there was a little 1940s or 50s round refrigerator in the kitchen where we kept all our bag lunches because you know we didn't have craft services, and you know things like that. It was very cool for me to be able to be there all night, and because most of the filming was at night or on weekends, and so what was all on at night on in on weekends, so you know it's just really really great to be just there. I was a kid that could entertain myself quite well, and so the downtimes I just I wasn't wasn't in the way. I just really enjoyed being there and observing. I just soaked it all up. It was very very special to me because I adored my dad, and I had this opportunity to be part of something that he was doing. It was remarkable to me.
Dave Bullis 6:21
Now, when you look back on that mystery science theater, really took Manos and they, you know, showed it on on their on their show and everything. And from what I gather, you know, that's where it started to really get, you know, sort of re-released back into the zeitgeist because now it became this cult hit again because because of MST 3k. So you know, is your dad in Manos Returns?
Jackey Neyman 6:42
Yes, he just turned 80 years old in November, and you know we had done a started to do a sequel in 2010 or be part of somebody else's sequel that just never happened. But my dad's scenes in that one did get filmed, and and so that's always been bothered me so much that my dad was never going to get to see himself in you know in something better on film because you know when he was in theater in the 60s and 70s none of that was recorded. People didn't have video recorders and cameras and and all that stuff, so so he never got to see himself. So having this opportunity for him was really amazing, and and it had to happen now because of his age, and so when he agreed to to do this, it just all just came together amazingly. the The people, all all the resources we needed. So initially, we did a T-shirt campaign that was kind of a twofold thing: one to get my dad some money for doing this, and to get his scene filmed right away while he was strong and healthy, you know. We didn't want to take any chances, and and just for him to have this opportunity again. So for him to get paid and for us to get this done. So we did a T-shirt campaign and raised in profit over $1,000, and that's what we gave him, and we set it up and we filmed his scenes. So that's done. We're very, very happy about that. That was critical. If we're going to say the master's going to be in it, he better be in it.
Dave Bullis 8:37
I sold your banners on on on Facebook, and I I was like, wow. I said, wait a minute. I said, you know, I think her her her dad's still in this, and I looked it up, and you know, I I just wanted to make sure before I asked, but
Jackey Neyman 8:49
Yeah, that's him.
Dave Bullis 8:50
Yeah, I saw that, and I was like, wow. I said, you know, that's great. Now you have two returning cast members. Originally, you know, with Manos' stands of fate from you know the one from 1966, I heard that Hal Warn was a manure salesman who wrote the script in his downtime. I don't know if that's true or not, Jackie, but maybe you could comment because I know sometimes there's just there's like you know urban legends and stuff that form around movies. But was he really a manure salesman?
Jackey Neyman 9:16
At one point, he when he was still in Houston, he did have a job selling chemical fertilizer, so in a sense, yes, but not really. And in fact, you know, and we'll get to this about my book. But there's a whole chapter on how Warren and and I did a tremendous amount of research. I talked to his family members, and I found out a whole lot about how, and you know, from from how he got into theater and how he got to that place, and and you know, he did a lot of writing. He wrote a musical. He wrote plays. He wrote books. He he has one book that's published about it's about salesmanship because he was the eternal salesman, and so he wrote a book about it, but yeah, he was. There's a lot of urban legends about monos, and that's one of the reasons I wrote the book, and that's one of the reasons I became so visible in the first place. Was that's how it started? Was me just trying to straighten a few things out online with people on chat rooms. That's how it all started for me.
Dave Bullis 10:47
When you were done filming the movie, and and you know the movie was edited, and you had that first showing, you know what did you think at that time when when you saw the movie?
Jackey Neyman 10:56
Wow. Well, at this point, yeah, the premiere. I have a whole chapter on that too. It was worthy of a chapter, but the premiere was Cal had had so much pageantry around this thing. He really knew how to how to do it. So he had lights that he borrowed from a car dealership sweeping the sky in front of the theater. He had a red carpet. He had a limousine, and I'll say a limousine. And all the cast and crew showed up, and and we were on the other side of the block. And the limousine would come around, pick up a few of us, drop us off in front of the theater. And there were so many people there. All the officials from El Paso was there. We had autograph hounds that Hal had hired, which actually were the street kids because we lived on the border of Mexico, and most these kids didn't, most of them didn't speak any English, but they were still getting our autographs as we stepped from the limo. So we go into the theater and you know the community, the theater and creative community in El Paso probably still now today, but at that time was quite tight knit, and so there was a lot of friends and well wishers and so we get in there and and sit down. My dad wanted to make sure we had a a good view, and so we sat about fifth row center, which meant there was no escape. And then the lights go down, and the in the muse, you know, it starts. And there's a couple of shorts before the film, you know, like a nature short, and and then the movie starts, and then there's this long driving scene, and and it just wow, people got it pretty much right away, and there was some snickers and little whisperings at first, and you know, my dad and sinking lower in his seat, and then. But for me, all I cared about was me. You know, I'm a kid. I just want to see myself up there. And so, the car drives up, and my mouth opens, and this whatever comes out of my mouth, and I was absolutely horrified. I was just appalled. I felt my face get hot, and I just burst into tears. And I just sat through the whole thing in misery, just crying.
Dave Bullis 13:33
See, I was gonna ask because I imagine as a kid, I part of me thought that you would just be so excited that you would just you wouldn't see you know you would just see all the positives if you know what I mean like you would just be so enthralled by this entire experience but that that was very interesting that you know I I didn't I honestly Jackie I swear I didn't think you were going to say that I thought you were gonna I thought you were gonna tell me that you were just like you know like later on your dad had a talk with you like about the movie being like a lot of these movies, you know, like some some like The Room. You know, the the reason I like Manos, I like The Room, I like Miami Connection, is you know I understand they're not you know some people say you know best of the worst or whatever you want to call, but what I think is I see a lot of passion in these movies, and I get that. Like I see a lot of, they actually have heart to them, and and I and I know some people are going to look at me kind of you know cockeyed when I say that, but there is you know there's a prime when they're making this film if you feel what I mean, and I and I'm sure Hal when he was making you know Manos, you could see that he he actually was trying to make you know his own version of a horror film.
Jackey Neyman 14:40
He was, and he knew from the start. He let everybody know that he knew he wasn't making a good movie, and that, but he had intended to make the best movie he could, and and he had a Hal had big ideas, and Manos was not hit the end game. Him, Manos was just the beginning, and he had really truly thought that with his connection with Sterling Silliphant and the bet that he had made to get this movie made, and the connections that he had in Hollywood, he thought that he was going to with this film open the film industry to El Paso, and then he would be known for that. And unfortunately, that actually, well, in a in a really weird sense, it kind of did happen. But
Dave Bullis 15:32
You're right. I mean, because you know, right now, you know, I've actually had filmmakers from Texas on here. Granted that you know they live in most of them live in Austin, but there are some from you know I know some from Dallas and some from all over Texas. So and the film industry now has just grown so much that yeah yeah Texas is huge. I mean now it's it's you know it's it seems to be like the South Southwest in America because Georgia, Louisiana, some parts. Well I think South Carolina might still be up there. I can't remember, but you know, just these you know areas now that have exploded in filmmaking.
Jackey Neyman 16:07
Yeah, and he was right about you know the wild desert beauty, the you know sunshine 300 days a year. You know, there's wide open spaces. There's a you know it's it's a beautiful area. It's desert, but it's beautiful, and you know, it would be it is a good place to film.
Dave Bullis 16:07
Yeah, definitely. One one movie that I really noticed that that desert location that I really noticed how how cinematic it can be was in the movie No Country for Old Men.
Jackey Neyman 16:39
Oh yeah, that could not have been filmed anywhere else. It wouldn't have worked the way it worked.
Dave Bullis 16:46
Yeah, especially on that whole Mexican Texas border, that whole firefight, and then when you know Louella Moss just running away. I mean, it just I was like, wow. I was like, you know, I've never, you know, I've seen a ton of westerns too, but I've never actually put it together that much. I've noticed it. You know, usually you you see like you know a mountain formation, but then I notice an old country. I'm like, wow, this is some really beautiful scenery.
Jackey Neyman 17:08
Yeah, and then you get the sense of the culture too.
Dave Bullis 17:12
Yes, definitely,
Jackey Neyman 17:13
And and that's really cool because it is so different than other other places in the in the country.
Dave Bullis 17:20
Yeah, very true, Jack. I want to ask you one question too. Was what you know after Manos came out? You know, were you recognized at all, or or did you did you start you know continuing you know continue acting after that?
Jackey Neyman 17:32
Uh, well, nobody was recognized. I mean, nobody ever wanted to talk about it. You know, as soon as Manos was over, it it literally everybody went their own ways and tried really hard to pretend it never happened. But I definitely was bit by the acting bug, mostly because of my dad being in the theater. And I remember telling my friends at school that I'd been in a movie, but you know they didn't care at that time, when I was young, and then you know, when I got into high school, I I continued. I I went to acting classes, and I actually did do one other play with my dad in 1971. He did he played what's his name Lowther in the Primus Jean Brodie, and in El Paso, and the director of that had somehow got Julie Adams, the actress Julie Adams, to come out as a special celebrity to play Jean Brodie, and I got to be one of the schoolgirls. What's really cool about that is I went to the Living Dead convention in Portland a few months ago because I heard Julie Adams was there, and I still had the program from 1971 from the play with my dad's name in it and her name and my name, and I approached her and I asked her to sign it. Not only did she sign it, but I bought her book, and that play was mentioned in her book. She even talked about it. So I'm like, wow, we're in each other's books, you know. Very cool.
Dave Bullis 19:18
It's a small world, right?
Jackey Neyman 19:19
But then I went on, and I I moved to my dad moved to Southern California when my parents divorced when I was a young teen, and I went with him. So I continued acting through high school, and then I made a decision at that point that as a creative person that I had to live creatively, but that I felt I had more opportunity in art than in acting, and so I just kind of switched. I mean, I always had that love of acting and that love of theater. And but I became an artist, and I had a pretty good career. But then it comes full circle, and this whole monos thing comes up. And honestly, because of monos and my place in it, and history, and and the way that I engage with people has come to this place to give me opportunities to realize pretty much every dream I ever wanted. You know, it's like I get to taste a little bit of everything. So it's it's pretty incredible, really.
Dave Bullis 20:40
And I noticed on your your website you have some of your artwork up on your website, correct?
Jackey Neyman 20:44
Yeah, I believe I do. I need to update that because I'm an artist, and so some of those organizational things, especially lately with all the mono stuff building up, it's sometimes it's hard to find time to to promote my art. I mean, I'm sitting here in my studio looking at walls of it that nobody's seen because I can't seem to get it photographed and posted. You know.
Dave Bullis 21:11
Well, you know, like we were talking about before. You know, the the this episode started. You know, the internet now. You know, has made everything so easy. But you know now, like you know, we were talking about crowdfunding, for instance. You know, you know that whole thing, you know, started, and you know, even before. But you know, as soon as it starts, we people were like, you know, what is crowdfunding? You know what I mean? Yeah. So yeah, and then but now you know, with with art, and and I actually am friends with a, I guess she's kind of like an art dealer. I guess you would call her. What she does now is she she actually takes photos, and she actually just like will put them up on her like her Instagram, or she'll post them on like her Facebook or whatever. And then you know, I mean, they're not you know professionally done photos. Obviously, they're just done with her phone. But you know, it's just it's just you know stuff that you know she finds interesting.
Jackey Neyman 21:56
Yeah. Well, I find when I do post my things regularly, regularly. I, I, I mean, I get people to, you know, I sell art, but if I don't put it out there, obviously, I'm not going to sell anything. So it's, it's, it's hard. I mean, the internet is amazing. I just can't imagine how to do any of this. I don't know how any of us did anything before. I just can hardly remember. But on the other hand, there's so many different things. You think you got something down? I'm just getting Twitter down, and somebody says, "Well, now you need to do Instagram. And have you done LinkedIn? I'm like, "Oh my gosh!
Dave Bullis 22:38
Can't keep up. What I find with social media is, it's like people migrate almost like people migrate from different countries. They, you know, they're you know, first it was it was Facebook was the big one, and then people sort of got tired of that. They went to Twitter, and you know, Twitter is now falling off, and people are going to Instagram and Snapchat, and you know, but I mean, Facebook's still number one. You know, but but now it's it's you know the the the a lot of the teenagers and stuff have fallen off, and you know they they they use Snapchat now, and that's where I draw the line because I absolutely hate Snapchat. I tried it one time, and I was like, I'm just going to stick to Twitter and and Instagram because I hate Facebook too, but but no, I completely understand where you're coming from. It just seems like social media is just ever changing, and you know now Twitter's you know is going through some inner inner turmoil, and they're trying out new features. And I hear now they might get rid of the 140 characters and make it like yeah. So I mean, it's just it's just one of those things, you know. It's just it's always changing, and that's why I'm. I I think it's a good idea to always have your own website. That way, you can drive people back to that. And you know, that's not going to change because unless you change it, it's not going to change.
Jackey Neyman 23:50
Yeah, that's true. That's true, and it is there. But yeah, I need to update it. That's sure. And anyway, while we're at that, it's debbiesmonos.com,
Dave Bullis 24:03
And I'll make sure to link to that in the show notes, everybody. You can, and I'll also make sure to post some some of your art, Jackie.
Jackey Neyman 24:09
Oh, thank you. I'll I'll send some to you too. Yeah, I'm really liking my new stuff.
Dave Bullis 24:16
No, well, thank you. Yeah, I will hang it on on the wall because I actually have just been cleaning up my office here, and I actually have like room now, of because I just I had so much stuff on my walls that I like literally I was like, why is this still up here? It's like a poster of a movie. I I mean I personally did you know years ago, and I was like I you know this never came of anything. I so I just put it in the closet now. Yeah. So all the yeah you know what I mean.
Jackey Neyman 24:39
I do yeah because you get so used to things, you got to switch things up. I did interior faux finish. I worked for high end clients and color consultation, and worked with people in their homes and businesses for like 25 something years, and and so that's that's something that was so important. Amazing to people is we'd do a wall and then I'd rearrange their art and suddenly they'd be they'd see this painting in a whole new way, or we might just move something, get rid of it, and put something else up, and it's like wow the whole environment changes with one little shift, you know sometimes, but yeah,
Dave Bullis 25:20
So true.
Jackey Neyman 25:21
Try to keep things fresh because my philosophy in life is is the little things are are microcosms of how you want the whole big thing to work, and and so I try to live that way. You know, when my when my desk is disorganized, it's just a reflection of my mind.
Dave Bullis 25:39
Yeah, that that that that is a good you know that is a good analogy and you know like for me you know when I I I switch my desk up and now like my room feels like twice as big. I actually I literally used to do the podcast on the opposite side of the room and I I just I bought a new smaller desks and switched that desk over to the other side and now it feels like you know a much bigger office and and it's just a small change. I really, I mean, you know, obviously the office didn't get bigger, but feng shui exactly. People thought they were tuning in to hear about Manos, and they're hearing about feng shui.
Jackey Neyman 26:13
Yeah, well, you know, that's the first time I've discussed that on a podcast.
Dave Bullis 26:19
See, I always try to get something something new from from my guests because sometimes they're they're asked the same questions over and over again.
Jackey Neyman 26:27
You know, I'll tell you, lately it's crazy because of this thing. It's just kind of exploding, and and I've had to be a lot better organized to keep track of who I'm talking to on what day, and and so that I can go back and listen or read, and it's it's wow. This whole organization thing is it's a whole different thing for me.
Dave Bullis 26:54
Yeah. Well, one of the of the the tips that I usually give to people crowdfunding is is there has to be sort of like the crowdfunding czar or crowdfunding whatever you want to call that that person's title, but basically they're in charge of the campaign, but they also like help to organize. Like, okay, I have this actress; she's available for podcasts or whatever. I have you know this person's available, and that person sort of facilitates that as well, and that that is one one duty that you know that person has to be so well organized and you know constantly sending calendar invites and and stuff like that. But if you could get somebody like that, I mean they they're worth their weight in gold.
Jackey Neyman 27:36
Well, luckily we do. We have we're a team here. I this this doing this Kickstarter thing has pretty much been a full time job for me the last week and a half or so. But I absolutely couldn't do this alone. There's no way. But Rachel Jackson, who created Mano's Hands of Felt, is running the Kickstarter. She organized it, and she's been working with Tanya Atomic, our director, and I. The three of us have just been in constant contact, and but boy, Rachel is amazing. She's gotten the press releases out there, and my job here is to keep myself organized, and that's a full time job, you know. But wow, Rachel is amazing, and the three of us. Plus, then we have Joe Sherlock, who is our director of photography for the film, and he's with Skullface astronaut. He's done I don't know how many films on his own, but he's doing all our graphics for the Kickstarter. And then Steve Foley, who is our editor and scriptwriter, is doing all those the videos. He's edited the videos that we're doing, and you know, I just can't believe what an incredible team I have. It's so synergetic. Is that a word? I mean, our synergy is amazing. It's this whole monos thing is amazing. It just draws the right people together. And same thing happened with my book and my co-author. It's I don't I don't know how this happens. I understand how religions are formed because the will of manos is. I say put your hands in the air, you know. Put your monos in the air for Manos.
Dave Bullis 29:42
You know, I do want to touch upon that. You know, you your Kickstarter right now for Manos. It's it's currently crowdfunding. Do you know the exact date that's going to end, Jackey?
Jackey Neyman 29:52
Yeah, yeah, march 2.
Dave Bullis 29:54
Okay, so everyone listening to this, and now back to the show. You know, march 2, 2016 is is the last day to contribute. I've contributed because I saw the project, and I actually almost you know clicked off of it. But I but I started to read, and I saw, oh, the girl who was in Manos, the original, was in this. I said, okay, so there's some, you know, some returning cast members. And then I started reading more about it. I was like, oh, this sounds pretty cool because at first, Jackie, I was wondering. I thought, oh, I hope some, you know, random filmmakers not trying to cash in on Manos. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, they do that all the time to Night Living Dead. I mean, I have seen so many Night of the Living Dead "quote unquote" sequels that that have nothing to do with George Romero or Russ Steiner or John A. Russo, and it's just it's unbelievable. So, like when I saw you were behind Manos, Manos Returns, I I was like, okay, this is something I want to actually contribute, and now that you're actually crowdfunding it, you know what were some of the things that you wanted to you know accomplish with with Manos Returns? You know, because it it actually is the a sequel to Manos, obviously. And you know, so what are some of the things that you wanted to accomplish with you know with this film?
Jackey Neyman 31:17
Well, first of all, I want to say that yeah, it's a sequel, but it's very different. We get a lot of questions like, "Well, how are you going to keep with mono stylistically? Are you going to use the same cameras and different different things like that? And it's not a remake. We're not. It's kind of a continuation, but it's not. It's its own story, and we're going in a whole different direction because monos just can't be recreated. And you said you touched on that earlier about you didn't use the word, but like that earnest intent. You know that that somebody like Hal comes at, and but with without experience, and then you know, by some magical concoction, they come up with this crazy thing that hits with the public somehow. You know, 27 years later, but it's just, you know, we're making a film that is a nod to Manos. We want to. We're bringing in my dad and myself, and we're also hoping to have Diane Marie, who played my mother. She's still just beautiful, amazing. She went on to this amazing career as a top model in Europe. By the way, she's still beautiful. So we're hoping to have her back, and then we're pretty much it for who's still living, and and for the sheriff, we're actually using the son of William Brian Jennings, the original sheriff. His son will be playing her sheriff, and he looks a lot like his dad, so that's pretty exciting. So what we're accomplishing here is we're giving the originals an opportunity to kind of bask in the Manos love, because like you said, there's so many other projects, and Manos has a great number of projects. I, I personally, I celebrate them all. I encourage people. I love to. I love that Manos has inspired so much talent, and I've met the most amazing people through this whole thing. I've got a friend in a Facebook friend in New Orleans that is working on a Manos burlesque show that I hope to be able to go see. So, and then Mano's hands have felt. There's a stage production. So I think it's all really wonderful, but at the same time, the original people who were involved have never benefited from any of these wonderful things, or MST, or anything. The you know other than a little notoriety, so this project gives us a chance to, you know, just to come out and bask a little in that love and and hopefully benefit financially. So one way or the other, we've already given my dad some money for doing his part. We want to pay everybody who's involved in this film because when you do a creative project like this, so many people volunteer so much time and effort, and we'd like to we'd like to reward them somehow a little bit, and we also want to make the best film that we can make. And so, with our base goal of 24,000, we can make a film. And the people that are on this film have so much experience with no budget and low budget, and have won awards and done. Wonderful things with that! I'm so excited to see what we can actually do with a budget, and then as the budget goes up, you know, as we go above our $24,000, which I hope we can do, is then we're just going to make a better movie. We'll have more budget for for costuming. We'll have more budget to bring in more people. Oh, and going back a little, another original is Nikki Mathis who sang "Forgetting You" on the original soundtrack. I found her when I was researching my book, and she still sings. She's amazing. She's a jazz singer, and she's been singing on stage since like 1959. She was on stage with Dave Brubeck seven years before Manos ever happened. So she's going to re-record "Forgetting You" for us. That's one of the perks.
Dave Bullis 36:02
So, so when you were actually when you actually contacted her, did did you know what what did she think about that? Because the reason I I ask that is they just released a sequel to Samurai Cop called it was Samurai Cop Tuna, and the the the filmmakers wanted to get everybody back from the original. And when they called people, they thought it was a joke. Because I don't know if I'm sorry, Jackie. I'm kind of like a movie buff. So if I'm throwing movies,
Jackey Neyman 36:26
I know, I know, yeah.
Dave Bullis 36:28
Okay, good. You know what, Samurai Cop? Okay, so so Samurai Cop to them when they were calling people, they actually were like, "Is this a joke? You know, why would they make a move? You know, a sequel to this all these years later? So you know, so what was the reaction when you when you contacted? I'm sorry. What was her name?
Jackey Neyman 36:42
Nikki. Nikki.
Dave Bullis 36:42
Nikki. So, so what was the reaction when when you contacted Nikki?
Jackey Neyman 36:46
Well, I initially contacted her for my book when I was researching my book, and I just could not believe that. I mean, it was a long, circuitous journey to find her. It was not direct because she was never none of the musicians were ever credited, so I actually found out who all the musicians were, and I talked to her and the guitarist, Kurt Warren. So no relation to Hal, by the way, but but so she was actually she's so gracious and kind, and what a wonderful lady! We had the best phone conversation, and she was very happy to to interview for my book, and so we became friends. And it was actually probably we'd been friends for a year before I asked her if she would be willing to re-record forgetting you, and she did agree, and I'm making it very easy for her. That's the other thing is that she's. I've already contacted a recording studio near her home, and and we have somebody else who's doing our soundtrack or creating the music. So we're putting it all together, and that's the other thing that we can do based on the internet is we can work with people all over the country and pull this together. You know, we don't all have to be in the same place to do a lot of this stuff.
Dave Bullis 38:12
Yeah, very true. And then you sort of like you were just touching upon. You know, you sort of wonder how did we do this before the internet?
Jackey Neyman 38:18
Oh, we could not have done this. I mean, on another subject, you know, back to the book again was the cover of my book. The artwork is amazing, and it was created by an artist friend in Croatia. How would I ever know anybody from Croatia if it weren't for social networking? Well, I can tell you, I wouldn't, because I don't know anybody in Croatia,
Dave Bullis 38:43
I did actually want to talk about the book. You know, growing up with Manos, you know, so you know, what was the impetus to actually, you know, write write this book?
Jackey Neyman 38:51
Well, you know, back when MST 3k first aired Manos, and it came. I mean, my dad and I, it just disappeared. I thought I'd never see it again after 1966, even though I looked and looked, and then there it was on television, and then it had this popularity, and things kept people kept talking about it here and there, and and I chime in, and my my goal was just to kind of straighten out some of the monos mythology out there, and that was my quest, and that's where it started. And then I think it was 2012, or actually since 2010, I started thinking about writing a book. I thought, well, you know, have a lot of memories, I have a lot of stories, and my dad's still here, and I should interview him, and and I just couldn't figure out how to pull it together. And then I think it was 2012. You know, the whole blogging thing got big, and I thought, well, maybe I'll write a blog and start writing some of these things down so I can preserve them on paper, so to speak. And and also to see if anybody's actually interested. Well, as I started writing the blog, I started getting, I started noticing readers all over the world. I mean, for a couple months, most of my readers were actually for two months in a row. I had more readers in Latvia than anywhere else, including the United States. So I I don't get what that's about, but but then I started noticing it. The numbers were building, and I was getting you know about 3000 or so views a month on my blog, and a lot of really great comments. So I kind of put the feelers out there, knowing again I never written a book. I had no idea how to go about it or find a publisher. So I met a woman online on social media again. Laura Mizuka Toops, who has 30 years' experience in editing, and she's written a couple novels, and and she's a monospan, and we just hit it off. So we and she lives in Chicago. So again, we never actually met face to face until, gosh, when was it? I think it was October. I flew out there so we could get our final edit done and get it to the publisher, but because the deadline for the publisher was December, and then so so I'm writing this book, and at first, I thought it was just going to be kind of memoirs and my dad's memories and whatever else I could find, and it just kept growing. And I started realizing that I'm really good at research and I really enjoy research. And I and it was like this game. And then I kept. I uncovered somebody. I actually talked to one of the wives. I found two of them. No, I found three of them, but only one would talk to me. And I even found a relative of John Reynolds who refused to talk, and and I respect that because John Reynolds played Torgo and committed suicide. So, you know, I didn't want to stir up or or bother the family if they didn't want to talk. You know, but in the process, I I found so many people and I learned so much information and background and and and people that were never credited. I got the credits straightened out. You wouldn't believe how screwed up the credits are in mono stands at fate. I mean, people were credited for things they didn't do, and some people weren't mentioned at all. So it just turned into this this epic journey. You know, took me 16 months from from signing my contract with my co-author to getting it to the publisher, but another crazy thing was when we got to the point to go looking for a publisher. She did her research and she came to me with three names of three different publishers that she thought would be best for my book, and so I looked at the three of them and I picked one that I thought would be the best. Bear Manor Media. They do a lot of biographies and film books on film and and such like that. So we wrote them a pitch letter, and within it was the same day. That was crazy. Same day, we get an email back from the publisher saying, with capital letter, "Yes! Exclamation point. I would love to see that. I'm a big Manos fan. I know how how you know. Like whoa. So we sent him, you know, the requisite outline and chapters, and within two days he was back with a contract, and I'm like, "That's insane! Who gets that? You know, in their first book. But he loves it, and and then I got this offer from this incredible artist to to do the art for my cover, and it just came together. So I just got the artist, or I got the proof for the whole book just a few days ago. So it's it's out very very soon. Like I said, one of the perks in the Kickstarter is a pre-publication signed copy of the manuscript, and I'm working to get those. I mean, the moment this Kickstarter's over, those need to go out so that they actually get them before the book. You know, I think the book's going to be out very soon. It'll be out sometime in March, I believe.
Dave Bullis 44:56
I'll have to make sure to pick up a copy because I was actually going to ask you when. Release date is, but you know, as you're telling the story, you know, it just reminded me of what you said earlier, which is, you know, Manos as a religion, the the power of Manos.
Jackey Neyman 45:10
Oh, it's so bizarre. I mean, I've been living it for years, and and I've always approached this thing with not what I can get out of it, because that's just not who I am. I'm I'm a greater good kind of person, and I've talked to other people doing other monos projects from time to time, where they seem kind of like startled, you know, when I approach them and they're worried, and then once they realize that I'm not out to get anything out of them. I just, I just want to know what's going on. You know, I just love it. I, I support and celebrate, and then, you know, and then we're all friends. And in fact, some of these projects are promoting our Kickstarter now, and which is remarkable to me because they've got their own things to do. You know, I think that's just great. We're all one big family, as far as I'm concerned. But then you know, there's also a dark side. One of Hal Warren's sons, you know, like like you said, neither living dead. And I mean, I get his position. He's feeling left out, but man, his approach is so negative, and and he just comes at everybody with threats, and so he harassed me for like three years, nasty letters and cease and desist, and telling me I can't talk about being Debbie, and I'm like, this is ridiculous, you know. So I mean that whole debacle really kind of crushed me for a while, and I just went silent and dark because my whole thing-if it's not fun, it's just not worth doing. This monos thing is all about fun and having and and and the love of it, you know, the creativity and and I just don't see room for that negativity, and you know there's room for everybody here, as far as I'm concerned. So we're just getting, we're just putting our, you know, we're putting our hat in the ring.
Dave Bullis 47:13
One thing I've learned too is, you know, somebody doesn't like what you're doing, or maybe thinks that they have a similar idea or something, and they they put those stop it those the cease and desist orders. You know, I got one before because some guy thought I made a a trailer that we made that I produced. He thought it was too close to his idea, and I actually looked at his idea and I said, "Dude, I said these things are so far apart. I said, "I don't understand, you know, and and I think some people just sort of, like you said, left out, or maybe they feel like threatened in some weird way, and they just lash out like that.
Jackey Neyman 47:48
Well, I he's he. I know that I drive him nuts just by doing what I do, but I'm not trying to. I'm not. It's not about him, you know. It's about me, my life, my dad, and when I was writing my blog stories, you know, I got some comments of him telling me not to talk about this or that or stop telling those stories. You know, tell my story, and I'm like, write your own blog. You know, I I can only tell what I know, and so the book was was like that too, you know. I worked very very hard to get the story right, and if I didn't know it, I didn't write it. And there are things that I learned that I didn't write because I don't want to hurt anybody, you know. But but I'm trying to tell the truth as best as I possibly can, you know.
Dave Bullis 48:45
Honestly, I I think that's great, Jackie. Honestly, I you know I saw again I saw the Manos returns on on on Kickstarter. I read the the the backstory behind it, and I was like, I I'm definitely going to donate to this campaign. And you know again you know with your website, you're sharing your artwork and everything else. You know, Jackie, I say keep on going.
Jackey Neyman 49:04
Well, I can't stop. It's you know, I mean, really, it's I'm, I've I'm creative. I'm an artist. I've I can't tell you how many different businesses I started. Some of them work, some of them don't. And every time I get knocked down, I just kind of shake it off. I'm like, okay, deep breath, do it again. You know, I don't beat my head against a wall, but I always find a way if it's something that I really want. And I am absolutely determined this is going to happen because, as I said before, my dad is 80. We have filmed his scenes, and and that's my motivation here of getting it done. Is my dad needs to see this, and and we have some very definite dates we're keeping to. You know, this is the 50th anniversary of Manos, the Hands of Fate, this year from 1966 when it was made and when it premiered, and we're kind of keeping to that. January 30th, we launched our Kickstarter, which was the day that Mystery Science Theater put Manos on television on Comedy Central for the very first time and brought it to the public. And November 15 is the 50th anniversary from when Monos premiered in El Paso in the theater, and we want to do our first screening on that date. So we've got a lot of work to do, but in preparing for this Kickstarter, you know, we want to make sure we can get this movie done and and have something that the fans are really going to enjoy. I mean, this is going to be a pretty good movie. We're not making a bad movie. We're making the best movie we can for whatever we end up with, you know, financially. And so I'm very excited about it. This is going to be awesome, and it's going to be fun. It is fun.
Dave Bullis 51:18
Yeah, I can't wait to see it. See it, Jackie. I, you know, I think it is going to be very well done because, like I said, you know, it's the passion to do it, and you know that's what really, you know, and a lot of movies you can see if the filmmaker had passion doing it or if they're just going through the motions, if you know what I mean.
Jackey Neyman 51:35
Yeah, yeah, and we're not doing this like you know. You can see movies; they're they're exactly they're made just for the, you know, to to try to appeal to the masses and make money. And we're not out to do that. We want to make a fan film. We want to make something that that we can be really proud of.
Dave Bullis 51:55
Exactly, and you know, I can definitely tell that just by talking to you. You know, Jackie, we you know we've been talking for about you know 50 minutes now, and so I wanted to say you know you know in closing, is there anything sort of that we didn't talk about that you maybe wanted to say or anything you wanted to maybe just add to sort of put a a period at the end of this conversation?
Jackey Neyman 52:14
I just want to say that we are only $38 short of getting to 60% of our base funds on the the Kickstarter, and that's with 163 backers. That's amazing. I mean, we've got backers all through the whole thing. This is an amazing Kickstarter with so many levels of rewards that appeal to people, and so I just really urge you, even if it's only $5, please donate. Get help us get this movie made, and and if you can't donate anything, just share it. Let people know because Manos fans and MST fans are in every walk of life and around every corner. We just you just got to get the word out there.
Dave Bullis 53:02
Yeah, that that is very true. And I heard about Manos through MST 3k, and now you know, obviously, years later when I saw this, I thought, wow, this is amazing. And you know, Jackey, I want to wish you the best of luck. You know, with everything. And oh, and where do people find you out online?
Jackey Neyman 53:17
Oh, Manos returns for the Kickstarter, it's manosreturns.com. and and for me, everything is under Debbie's Manos on Facebook, on my website, on my blog, you know, on Blogger, Debbie's Manos, and that's it. If you Google me. There's, I'm right there,
Dave Bullis 53:44
And I will link to all of jackie's social media accounts in the show notes as well. Jackie, I want to say, you know, I wish want to wish you best of luck, and again, I want to say thank you very much for coming on.
Jackey Neyman 53:55
Thank you so much, Dave. Pleasure talking to you.
Dave Bullis 53:58
Oh, pleasure was all mine. And you know what? I want to have you on again when Madness Returns comes out. I want to, you know, that way we could talk about the premiere and everything else.
Jackey Neyman 54:06
I would love that. I would love that. I've got a note of it right here because organization is key.
Dave Bullis 54:13
All right, Jackie. I want to say thanks again and take care.
Jackey Neyman 54:17
Thank you, Dave. Talk to you soon.
Dave Bullis 54:20
Bye bye.
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LINKS
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- Jackey Neyman – IMDb
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