IFH 323: Creating Emotional Storytelling in the Edit w/ Sven Pape

Alex Ferrari 1:54
Now guys, today on the show, we have Sven Pape. From this guy edits, he has a very, very, very popular YouTube channel. And he is a master editor doing amazing work, not only editing himself and doing netflix documentaries, and Netflix shows and just a list of movies that he's done over the course of his career. But he's also sharing his wisdom and his experience with his community in the community of filmmakers looking to be better editors and I love Love, love his work. It's a very unique YouTube channel and is grown insanely. So I wanted to get him on the show to talk editing the top cutting, and to get these two grizzled, battle hardened editors together and just talk shop. So if you want to learn more about the process of editing, the creative process of editing, as well as the business of being an editor in today's world, this episode is for you. It is one of my favorite episodes. And we did talk a bunch we get into it deep. So without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Sven Pape. I'd like to welcome to the show Sven Pape, how you doing brother?

Sven Pape 3:09
Very well. How are you Alex?

Alex Ferrari 3:10
Good. Good. Good, man. I really appreciate you coming on the show. I am a big fan of what you do on YouTube. And you've turned editing into a cool thing.

Sven Pape 3:22
Trying, I'm trying.

Alex Ferrari 3:23
You know from an old editor

Sven Pape 3:24
It's a struggle

Alex Ferrari 3:25
Went from one old editor, a salty dog to another one man. It's just like, it's not easy making editing cool. And you've done it with your YouTube channel with is which is this guy edits, which we'll talk about a little bit but we're gonna get into and so I'm warning everybody listening right now. You've got to salty dog editors who've been in the business for quite some time been editing for many, many years. We are going to get into it. We might we might we might venture off into the weeds. But stay with us. We'll come back. There might be some tech talk along the way. But we will try to keep it in there. We'll drop some knowledge bombs on you guys as we move forward. So first and foremost, how did you get into the business?

Sven Pape 4:06
I started falling in love with film, so little kid going to the theaters. And just just wanting to be a filmmaker. It really happened when I actually I'm originally from Germany. But I moved to South Africa when I was in my teenage years like 15 and so I was the new kid in school didn't have any friends. So I went to the movies. And that's where then realize okay, this is a calling I need to I need to what I'm feeling right now in the theater. I want to be part of creating something like this and then actually specifically the movie Dead Poets Society, sort of the one so that made me like, Okay, I gotta I gotta go on this journey. So that's how it started. I did a couple of internships in South Africa work for an ad agency immediately went to the film department in Cape Town. Worked assistant for producer for While there and then I knew I was gonna do filming, I ended up studying at the University of arts in Berlin. They didn't really have a film program, there was commercials. And I actually once I graduated, I build an agency with two or the partners. And within a year, I knew this isn't for me. And they they bought me out. I went to America, I ended up studying at the American Film Institute.

Alex Ferrari 5:26
Not a bad Not a bad school, sir.

Sven Pape 5:28
Yeah, I got lucky got in that. I didn't study editing. I studied producing. Then like that either. graduated, I bought myself a Mac, and the first Final Cut that came out final cut one

Alex Ferrari 5:42
You were a final cut one I didn't jump on until like two point something is when I first saw it.

Sven Pape 5:48
Yeah, no, I was. I was right there. did a project in indie project where I helped a friend I did like a live webcast of the behind the scenes as he was making the film in Pennsylvania. And then the second gig that I got was basically a paid gig, where I worked for James Cameron's company to do a webcast of his next film project, and doing all that important. Okay.

Alex Ferrari 6:14
So let's let's, let's pause for a second. Yeah. Did you say Jimmy Cameron?

Sven Pape 6:18
Yes.

Alex Ferrari 6:19
Okay, so James, what did so what movie was it? And what did you do and what you want, like you were on the set with James Cameron while he was shooting stuff.

Sven Pape 6:27
I was on the Russian research vessel going out to the Titanic, and did a like live webcast as he was going down to the ship and taking like 3d imagery inside of the ship. That was the 3d documentary called ghosts of the abyss. Yeah, I. So I went through that journey, I thought he was going to throw me off the boat, because I was the guy sticking a camera into his face while he's trying to figure out what his movies about, survive them on the phone, and then eventually became an editor as well. And the other three editors on ghosts are the best. And that was my first credit as an editor.

Alex Ferrari 7:11
That's not a bad first credit, my friend.

Sven Pape 7:14
Yeah, it was cool. And let's get started can only go down from there. Right? I did enjoy that journey was three and a half years.

Alex Ferrari 7:21
Oh my gosh. And did you what was the one what's the biggest lesson you learned from Mr. Cameron?

Sven Pape 7:29
To have confidence, I would say so I really admired that. He takes your word for what it is and not for what you've done in the past, or what your reputation is. So I was able to really show some stuff and immediately get sort of that feeling. Oh, he's he's responding to it. Like we're having a creative conversation about something he doesn't matter that I'm just a guy out of film school. I don't know anything. And so that really gave me competence just for the rest of my career.

Alex Ferrari 8:03
Well, yeah, I mean, if you if you ever to survive James Cameron for three and a half years at the beginning of your career, I think you're pretty good for the first three weeks were really rough like I I might have would have broken there and then would have been it but you held on you hold on. No. I've had a few people on the show who worked with Cameron, like Russell carpenter and and and a couple of the directors who that worked with him and I anytime I hear James him like, I need to hear the stories like what is it like you were in a very unique time in his in his career because he was still doing the Jacques Cousteau thing? He was still going out there doing that stuff. This is before Titanic, right? Or is it that? No, this is after Titanic before avatar. So there was that this period of like, eight years where he was just basically, Jacques Cousteau. Yeah, going out. And

Sven Pape 8:52
I met Michel Cousteau. And they were working on various projects that they were trying to set up for TV stations, and I kept some of those sizzles during that time.

Alex Ferrari 9:02
That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Like, that's, that's a great story. And we just got started. Now talk to me about this guy edits, because, you know, I, my, my fingers are in, you know, on the pulse. Hopefully, I tried to be on the pulse of everything going on in the film world, on YouTube and on Instagram, and social media and all that kind of stuff. And you came across my path. I was like, well, this is interesting. I just haven't This is This is nice. I love the branding. I love what you were doing. I loved your voice because it was a unique kind of not like like literally your voice but like your your voice of what you were trying to do. I was like, wow, this is actually good. And he knows what he's talking about, which is always a lovely thing to see. You turn on a YouTube channel. So how did they even come to be?

Sven Pape 9:48
Well, there's various factors. I mean, I already had this affinity towards new media anyway, because I did a broadcast before YouTube existed. I wish I would have Like getting back to YouTube much faster than I did. But it really, it really started with my daughter, who at the time was in elementary, and she had a YouTube channel, doing my little pony. And it took off. She was like one of the top 10 MLP YouTubers,

Alex Ferrari 10:17
What's the number? What's an MLP? MLP is my little pony Sorry, sorry, like loop so we're not we're not down. We're not down with the lingo, the little pony lingo Sorry, I know that's a whole, like my daughter's love Little Pony too, but that I heard that My Little Pony world it's it's kind of like Lego or Star Wars. It's like its own language,

Sven Pape 10:36
Its a subculture completely, like MLP movies out there that are just going gangbusters and you never hear about them. But then theaters and people show up. So that's when I realized, Oh, this is like this, now I understand what the potential of new media is. And so then I started experimenting, I did a YouTube channel just about my gardening of chickens, that kind of stuff, a couple of videos that like, immediately had like 100,000 views. So I'm like, Oh, I can make money with it. And this is the chicken videos, chicken video. That's awesome. So then I'm like, Okay, I gotta take this more seriously. And at the time, I was doing a feature. That's the third collaboration with director Michael Weber. Our first one was a Sundance Film called the end of love. And this was the third time working together. And I just pitched this idea to him and say, let's take this editing process online, and have people like, growing audience already on this journey of finding this film. And then by the time the film comes out, we'll probably already have some form of following who knows what's going to happen is I already do that catalog a couple of episodes, don't release them yet. Just show me what's happening. I did that he was shooting in Philadelphia. I showed him three episodes. And he's like, this is amazing. I'm learning something here. You have carte blanche, a couple of scenes we shouldn't be showing, but just do whatever you want. And go crazy. That's how the channel started by doing just like watch me edit sessions. And it's, it had sort of a niche audience at a time. Yeah. It's like, we weren't a couple of blogs, like no film, school. And so and it kind of was like 20,000 views was like a really good video. Yeah. And then the film finish, we release it. And then Okay, what am I going to? What am I going to do with the channel now? And I noticed this trend of the video essay. So I'm like, Okay, let's make it more about, like, what are some of these lessons, the bigger lessons about creative storytelling, there was like I, I noticed there was a lack of creative storytelling, it was all about software, and what's the best key keystroke to get somewhere. And I'm actually not really technical at all. Like, if you were going to get technical, I'm going to just pretty fast. I really use the tool just to tell the story. And I drove it pretty hard. But I never spent the time to like really dig in and understand what's the most efficient way to cut, I just I learned by just telling the story. So that was my angle on it. It's just to focus on characters, emotions, and story. And in a way that sort of then took it to the next level. I did videos like, what's the one thing that can immediately improve your editing and it's basically always tell a story and just showing how very like some, there are a lot of editors out there, but they're very few that really understand the concept of storytelling that like six things that are pointed out. In a video like that, I think it has like 300,000 views. And once I understood, okay, this is where I can, like make editing more accessible to just filmmakers, not just editors, to maybe even people that just love watching movies. That's when, when the channel took off, I did a video on Dunkirk that has 500,000 views. Yeah. And it's all just about editing. I'm like, I'm just looking at the scenes and I'm like taking the scenes apart.

Alex Ferrari 14:17
People and people want to watch that. Of course,

Sven Pape 14:19
People want to watch it.

Alex Ferrari 14:20
It's insane how you got over 200,000 followers on your YouTube channel and growing daily and growing pretty exponentially too. I remember when I first saw you You were under 100,000. So it's been growing fairly quickly as well.

Sven Pape 14:35
Yeah, it's definitely that's that's YouTube. It's like it's growing exponentially. Once you have a couple of milestone evergreen videos that work. The YouTube algorithm just keeps sharing them. And there's value there that just lets the value exists even if you don't see the video for a year. Once it's released, it's it's still there still something entertaining. Something to be gleaned from it. Yeah. Without without question.

Alex Ferrari 15:03
And do you find that and I always love asking you that there's this, you know, you came in at a time, where I mean, if you don't mind me asking how old are you? Oh, I'm 47. Right. So you're actually a little older than I am. So you you would, you would have seen this going going in, were, when I was coming up. And when you were coming up, we, you know, it was avid, like you had to get, you had to jump on an avid and, and jumping on an avid was extremely expensive, you had to go to a big post house, you had to, you couldn't practice, like practicing, you had to jump in early morning or after work or, you know, work out some sort of deal where you could get time in the suite. Now, I mean, literally, you can edit on your iPhone. But back then it took a long time to do. And in the the budgets for for editors, excuse me, the salaries for editors used to be a lot harder because it was just less of us doing this work. But then Final Cut showed up this rough Ian, that was called the final cut. And I kept hearing Final Cut, come up and come up with my market where I was editing. And I'm like, but I'm an avid or they're like, Oh, we just got a Final Cut system. And I'm like, wait, just check this out. And when I checked it out, I was like, holy crap, this is amazing. And how much is it and I can build my own system. It was because of Final Cut that was able to open up my first post house. Because I and it was so funny. I had my neighbor had bought a $70,000 avid and I had spent, I think eight to 10,000 just to build out my whole suite. Yeah. And I was paid off within a couple months before. And he was like paying payments, like I was out a mortgage payment. And he's like, I actually took on Final Cut. I'm like, yeah, you should have because no one cares, it's business. But my question is, I'm going off the rails here. My question is, the wonderful thing about Final Cut is that it opened the door to everybody to become an editor. The horrible thing about Final Cut is that it opened the door for everyone to become an editor. So then all of a sudden, what was once a market where you can get paid a salary that you can live off of. Now you're hustling against kids who have no idea what to do, and they might know how to operate the system, but they might not know how to tell a story. And trying to explain that to a producer is very difficult. What's your take on that?

Sven Pape 17:16
Well, first of all, I mean, Final Cut is the gateway drug that get me my jobs. I mean, I made most of my money on avid, right? But I couldn't I didn't, I didn't study editing, I had to learn avid on the job, I was already an editor on goals of the best not knowing the avid all that well, and taking a course at movie Ola. Yeah, that's what I did. But I wouldn't have had this career without Final Cut. So I'm saying I don't care if it's if the masses have access, I think it's a good thing. Oh, it is and, and it will self regulate immediately. Yes, you will have a producer who might be inexperienced say oh, I have this editor is going to charge me 20 bucks an hour. Now if this editor is going to charge me 50 bucks an hour, I'm gonna go with a guy who charges 20 bucks an hour, and then go through that experience. And most of the time, the guy that values his time, 20 bucks an hour. It's not worth his time, or her time. And so you just gotta you got to go through that process with every producer, the ones that know, understand, okay, I'm not paying you to run a piece of software, I'm paying you to solve my problems, to make sure that the film that I shot that has problems, you're protecting me and you're making sure this is the best that can be and that is so much more valuable. That means I need to spend less time in the editing Bay going through that painful process of making something work. And I can trust that you can make this work. And I think that will never change. So I think it's good, more people can have a go at it. And so that will mean that more great people will come out of this.

Alex Ferrari 19:04
And that's happened in every aspect of our business, whether it be cameras, you know, MP, you know, DPS all of a sudden now because I own a red, I'm a dp. It's kind of like, Oh, just because I own my own editing system. I'm an editor, I own my own DaVinci. Now I'm a colorist, they have no idea how to do it. Just because you could afford the Porsche doesn't mean you know how to drive it.

Sven Pape 19:22
Yeah. And the only way that you will learn is by doing it. So if you have cheap tools, and you can mess up a lot. You'll get there eventually,if you have the drive,

Alex Ferrari 19:33
Absolutely no question. Now, you've obviously worked a lot with editors and seeing new editors work. What are three mistakes that all new editors make? Are you referring to a video that I have no idea what you're talking about, sir.

Sven Pape 19:50
Okay, well in that video, the mistake number one is they don't look at the footage before they start editing. So that would be the first thing like see everything that you have, and start selecting, I think selecting is more important than the actual putting it together. If you have a system where you know, okay, these are the great moments, this is how I felt when I saw it the very first time. And I'm going to make sure I won't forget about this in terms of building select reels or marking it writing it down whatever your system is, you need to make sure you remember how you feel the first time that you see the footage, and see it all before you start editing. So you're not stuck, you're not editing yourself into a corner, you've seen a little bit, you're like have a hunch, you start cutting away, and now you're stuck there. And you're not, you're not telling the best possible story that's out there. So that's number one. Number two is this very specific, the lack of using j and l cuts. So really understanding what a j cat is and how it helps to make that cat invisible and make it flow in a way that it feels natural, like just a head turn so that the jacket is where the audio comes before the video of somebody already starts talking before we cut to them. And you don't have to use that all the time. But when you use it correctly, you can make a scene just blow it smooth, smooth it all out. And the last one is to not have a workflow or not test the workflow. So just going through spending an hour before you start cutting your next short or feature and just going from taking the footage into the system, figuring out how you're going to organize it, figuring out cutting a little test scene outputting that and giving that to whatever the end product is whether you go to DaVinci and a DCP, or whatever it is, just do a test run of the entire workflow chain before you commit to it because it's ever changing. Every time I start a new feature. There's a new cameras a new software upgrade as a new compression. So I cannot keep up with what's happening. Technically, I need to use what's the best technology at the moment that it's available, and I need to learn it right away through this test.

Alex Ferrari 22:10
Yeah, I was I was uh, one of the questions I was gonna ask you, can you please discuss the importance of understanding post production workflow, I've been yelling and screaming from the top of the mountaintop. how ridiculously important it is for filmmakers to understand workflow. And a lot of times editors say, Oh, I can I can do I'm a post supervisor, I can, I can run through this whole workflow for you and but from camera, to edit, to color to final deliverable. And then not to mention audio as well getting those audio files out, bringing it back in and putting it all together, what an online editor is versus a creative editor. And that whole process. It's not complicated. But you've got to go through it. Because if not, you will, you could, I mean, I literally remember a film, I'll never forget this room. It was a wrestling film, when the red Remember, the red showed up. And the workflow was challenging, to say the least. And then there's this poor kid who had shot like a $250,000 feature. Had, it's been in his hard drive for about a year and a half, because he could not find anyone who could understand how to get the workflow, right. And I he came to me because he heard I was one of the red guys that can handle the workflow. And I looked them I'm like, it's gonna cost this much dude. I mean, I can't scan. Like I almost got to recut this from scratch, like the match cut it, you know, by eye because they didn't even have time code on their damn reference file that they I mean, it's just ridiculous that he's, and I finally came up, but it took them two and a half years. Why? Because they didn't test workflow.

Sven Pape 23:43
I have funny stories, I actually turned on a movie because I looked at the red dailies. I'm like, This just looks awful. I didn't understand that originally. And who shot this, this is terrible,

Alex Ferrari 23:57
Terrible. It's all bland.

Sven Pape 24:00
I'm not editing any of this. It took me a while to Oh, maybe this thing like a lot or whatever. It's like I talked about workflow. But once I've done the test, I don't understand any of it. Like I just need to know it's working. The sound mixer at the end is happy. And then I just leave it up to the post supervisor or the assistant but we need to make sure we we try it out before it goes. I just did a documentary on Premiere and was the first time cutting on premiere. And I came in late so the workflow was set we could lower the film at the end. And then they tried to get to Pro Tools and two weeks to figure this stuff out. Because nobody had and Stan was isn't very expensive delivery on that end.

Alex Ferrari 24:51
Oh yes. I've got like I have I'm sure you have horror stories as well as I do. And we could talk for hours about horror. We should do a whole episode of editing. horror stories with Sven and Alex. I mean, we could just talk for days. And the funny thing is, is not just only independent films that I've, I've been on like, multimillion dollar jobs, that they didn't do this simple workflow test, and it costs them just 10s of 1000s of dollars, or if not 100, even one even costs over $100,000, because of the time, because we haven't even talked about VFX, and how to import and prep the effects and get those out to the plates, get the plates out to the VFX. Guys, and have them come back in and how that gets incorporated and all that. It's, it's mind blowing? Now, um, are there any tips that you have to the directors listening it out there in the audience, on how to properly work with an editor? Because there is a, there's a way to do it. And there's not a way to do it, and to how to become a partner with that person. And he's your creative he or she is your creative partner in this because you're essentially as the editor rewriting the movie, whether it's the last draft of the film?

Sven Pape 26:07
Well, I have a preferred way. But I'm not saying this is what the director should do. The director needs to do what works for her. Sometimes it does mean that he or she sits next to me and watches every cat that I make. So it's my preferred way.

Alex Ferrari 26:24
It's a fun. That's fun, isn't it?

Sven Pape 26:26
Yeah. I mean, my preferred way is that, and this might not happen on the first go around, you might need to work on a couple of projects with a director. But my preferred way is that the director goes off gives me the footage, we have a very broad discussion about what the film is about what's, what's the intent, what's the vision, what's the point of view. And I'll keep that in mind. I'll read the script, I throw the script out, and I start cutting the scene. And then when whenever I see problems, when I feel like oh, I need to shape the performance, I need to punch up the script, I need to pull back on maybe some stuff that's very obvious that's overwritten, I need to remove this, I'd like to already in that first pass, give it my best shot, and really tell the story the way that I see it and pitch it back to the director. And then my position shifts, once that first cut is done, where sort of I have my editors cut, then I become the listener. And it's all about figuring out what the director wants, and helping him or her to get there. But having said that, that's really that's a, that's a shortened process, where it's really important for the director to be part of this process of finding the film. So sometimes you actually have to show everything that was shot, put in every line, put everything out there so that the director can see or this might not be working, as I thought it would be to shortchange that process can sometimes delay things, but you have to go back. So I'm cutting a feature right now, first time director, first time we're collaborating on it. Luckily, he was able to have somebody cut the feature exactly the way that was done in script while he was shooting. And then we looked at this cut together. And then we could have a, like, within two days, we could figure out how we're going to restructure the film and how we're going to like change certain things like this is there's a certain setup that just doesn't work in my point of view, and the director agreed, and we need to get around it, we need to set it up differently. And so when I get to cap this now, I can immediately take more liberty. And I mean, I love to immediately go in there and try and fix things in the end. So you you would agree that you should do an assemble cut of like literally what the script says, first, you should do it. If you're working with a director for the first time and you're really finding that relationship. You can, you can cut some corners if you already have goodwill and trust built in. And like with Mark Webber, we've worked on three films together at this point. He doesn't even need to see certain things were made certain choices he made. He just wants to see what would like what if it's working on the screen right now. That's all he needs to know. And then we do go back into detail at certain things where it feels like oh, this, there was something else here or this isn't quite working for me. Let's go back and dig in. But at the beginning, yes, absolutely. Show the process, show the assembly cut with everything in it

Alex Ferrari 29:37
Do you and this is a little old editor trick and I'm curious if you've ever done it, that you actually will purposefully make a bad cut or a bad edit, to leave in that mistake. So then the producer or the director goes, Oh, you need to change that just so they have a feeling that they have now done something As opposed to them going after something that you really feel passionate about. Now, that's more like in commercials and music videos. I've done that a lot too. But sometimes features out like even in color. When I color grade, sometimes I'll just like, Oh, I didn't thank you for it. I didn't even know I did that. Sorry. Just it's a it's a psychological trick. But it gives them a feeling like, I have to say something because I'm the director. I'm the producer, you could denied to say it at all, if you if that will hurt your income stream at all, sir. No, I haven't done it in a while. But you got it. You have done it. I

Sven Pape 30:32
have done it. I've used this strategy. And it backfired several times. What happens suddenly it stays in the film. Oh,

Alex Ferrari 30:41
you got to move. But you have to make it so bad that even the craziest producer will never

Sven Pape 30:46
see. Yeah, nice. You can never predict what people go down. It's it's very hard. But I do. I do show certain things where if you're like, well, this is going to change. Like, this is not going to stay this way. But we need to keep it in right now. We need to get there. Gotcha. Now to do that.

Alex Ferrari 31:08
A safe politically correct answer, sir. I appreciate that. Now, what is? What is it about editing that you love the most?

Sven Pape 31:19
It helps me find the story. So I have a hard time understanding story when I just write it or read it. It's the footage that speaks to me. So it's for me, these are the building blocks that I can use to find a story. And so the most exciting thing for me is that most of the time, the story is quite different from what the original intent is. So I tend to always go for Oh, this is I have this inclination here. Let's go after this. And because some of the most exciting stuff happens, when you're discovering it, it's not because you wrote it that way. I mean, it happens too. But you have to be really, really good as a writer to create moments that are just like fresh, unbelievably insightful and surprising. Oftentimes, as an audio, the audio is pretty smart, I can't figure out what you're trying to do here. So you need to, you need to hide it a little bit more in the editing, or you need to find things that just sort of happened on their own. Like I was just talking to somebody about, I don't know if this is PC, but on the movie whiplash, JK made a mistake line reading where he he flubbed a line. And they ended up using it in the film. And it's about the pig that so he refused to do the line again, he wouldn't want it to be in the film, apparently, I don't know. But the director just loved it. And then they sort of snuck it in from from another take into that one. And so that's the kind of stuff that you can come up with. It just happened. That's, that's exciting. To me. That's what I love about editing.

Alex Ferrari 33:13
Yeah, cuz there is things in the editing process when like that aren't on the paper that earned on the day of the shoot. Like you just kind of find the magic like this one thing happens. And like that perfect example, one line, that was a throwaway, all of a sudden becomes the thing I always love. And this is just me, when you're editing a head turn, or you're editing the arm movement between cuts, so it kind of makes it a little bit of a smoother cut. Yeah, when you nail it, this is just something to so every This is now that we're in the weeds here. This is something that only editors would really understand is when you two completely different takes to two pletely different angles, but it looks seamless. Yeah, there's not there's such a satisfaction with

Sven Pape 33:57
this nice cutting on the action as a nice little tool to make edit seem invisible. But I just recently learned from an interview by Walter merge that he doesn't do that necessarily. He actually completes the action in one take. And then he cuts and he said he does that because he feels like if you're cutting on the action, it actually doesn't complete the thought or the intent of the actor and it felt felt feels better to him many times to to have somebody like sit down and not cutting on the actual slit, but have him land and then cut and I thought that's a really interesting take that he has I have to watch for that more and see if if maybe once in a while. It doesn't make sense for

Alex Ferrari 34:49
it also. Then, yeah, I guess it also depends on the kind of movie it is like if it's an action movie, I think at cutting on action works a lot better than if it's if It's cold. Was it? What did that movie a Cold Mountain? The one he did. But yeah, if it's called mountain that not as much when you're in a cabin somewhere, but if you're doing bad boys three, I think you're gonna probably want to cut if you're doing a Michael Bay film, you're cutting on the action. I don't know when you're cutting into Michael vevo. Have you ever done a video on Michael Bay's editing style?

Sven Pape 35:20
I taught a lesson on chaos cinema in, in college about Michael Bay. So yeah, maybe that's, that should be a good video, but there's not going to be much love for his editing.

Alex Ferrari 35:32
You know what, okay, and we could I want to talk about this for a second because I because i, you and I are both you know, you know, students of cinema, we watched cinema and scene styles and come come and go. And Michael Bay does get a pretty horrible rap. He is known as like, you know, you don't want to be that guy. But with that said, with that said, I personally think he's a genius in the sense that you might disagree with his films, you know, and the way he does it and all that stuff. But if movies change action movies changed from the moment that bad boys in the rock were made. Yeah, those are the two movies that changed all action movies, like Tony Jones, by the way, they're all go bad boys and are the rock is still probably arguably my favorite of his films. I do love Armageddon. But that's just me. This is a split in my space in my heart for Armageddon. I know it's ridiculous, but I still do love it. But after bad boys and the rock, it changed the way action movies were shot, it changed the way and everybody pretty much was trying to chase the dragon with him, they would have kept trying to chase his his style. And you could see that with Peter Berg's movies and, and so many other food, Claus films, and they all kind of he set the standard, kind of like what Tony Scott did with Top Gun. And it kind of you could go all the way back to Tony Scott and Top Gun that kind of changed the game too, because there wasn't anything before Top Gun that even remotely look like that, you know. So, in the editing has a lot to do with that, like how he cuts out why they cut. It's not your standard story, structure editing, he, he's all about the spectacle. He's all about that the motion, the emotion, as opposed to the context is like, if you watch I was watching bad boys too. And that whole sequence in the highway when the cars are falling on top of them. And you have no idea. There's no reference point of where you are in the movie. But it works really confused. But it works for whatever reason. Normally, you would like to have this at the establishing shots that the audience understands what's going on. All of a sudden, you see you see a tire, you see a car, you see a face, you see a gun? It's and I guess we just kind of connected? What's your feeling on that?

Sven Pape 37:48
Well, I mean, I think there's a difference between the rock and like a transformer moving on where I just don't know where I don't know why I'm looking at this person. I don't know if they are looking at each other. Right? Right, what he just said. Anybody can hear just utterly confused. And it's just sort of them that the action just like rolls over me. And I feel like I'm not as engaged as when I watched madmax. Right. Like the eye tracing is just perfect. Oh man from every cut, I know exactly who the villain is where the motion is going from where to where. And it's more efficient that way as well. I think Mad Max has actually cut way faster than any transformer movie. But it still works because somebody has an eye exactly on where where's the the audience looking at each frame. And when we make the cat that we make sure that the eyes are still in that same spot of the frame. And they don't have to reorient themselves. They don't have to figure out like the one ad where we are in in the, in the scene. One of these things that you have to do in Transformers if you want to figure out what's going on.

Alex Ferrari 39:04
But if you study like if you go if you watch Transformers one, and then you watch the last transformers, oh my god, it's like night and day like changing it. He's gotten. I feel he's gotten a little bit more drunk on his power. So he had to go in he just does what because every time you put something out, it just makes a billion dollars and he doesn't care. But I think Have

Sven Pape 39:26
you seen how many editors he has? Oh, he goes through like wife was six editors working on this movie at the same time. They're just throwing stuff on the timeline. And so by the time they're done, they have no like it to me it feels like they don't even there's no nothing that they can like, hold on to in terms of plan. Office. It's just and There's no no ownership in there. Which I mean, just from watching one video where I see him talking to his editors, and they're all on notepads trying to figure out what the hell he's gonna do with a seat now, after he watched it, I think

Alex Ferrari 40:17
I saw that video too. And I was watching it till I was like, Jesus, this is insane. It isn't. It's insane. This is his process, though. But like, but that but I think Mad Max is a perfect example of a movie that is extremely chaotic. And extremely quiz. You got visuals coming at you at a mile a minute. Yeah, but for whatever reason, it's not as exhausting. as, like, I stopped watching the Transformers film, like, I think I stopped at three. I was like, I can't even I can't even watch this. I just can't. Because it's, it's just exhausting. Visually exhausting. Like, I can only imagine trying to watch it in the theater, you would just be like, Oh, if you just be too much. But Mad Max, man. I mean, I mean,

Sven Pape 41:02
the reason is Margaret Sixto who kept the film, right. She I mean, she is the wife of the director, which George Miller I think, and, and they just, he trusts her to do the right thing. And she has a sensitivity towards action. That is the I don't see any other editor that were able, it would have been able to cut this movie this way. Because she really, really, she went through the entire footage, it took her three months to just go through the footage, select everything for a lot of cameras. And just, I mean, they manipulated every shot, there's, there's hardly any shot that's running it through 24 frames a second, I know they've sped up, they speed up speed up, they slow mo, if they feel like it's lacking, they do something to make sure it holds up. And the eye tracking is perfect. The center framing and the entire movement throughout the film, like from the beginning to the end, the way that the action moves at the beginning, from left to right. At some point, they turn around, and they go right to left, and then they go right again, especially basically three movements in this film in terms of the action. And this is all by design. This is a director who has a vision who storyboarded this whole thing through an editor that just completely is on board is a strong collaborator that can just support this vision 100%.

Alex Ferrari 42:31
And as directors, you know, a lot of directors like myself, I edit my own work. I've had I've had the occasion to work with editors on projects, rarely, but it happens. And I always find it being so refreshing to work with someone I can collaborate with. Because it's enemy's exhausting. It's an exhausting process. It's a very time consuming process. It's exhausting. And I it's hard as a director to be, you know, I can I can I'm too invested. So sometimes over the years, I've gotten better at this, but like, but it took me six hours to shoot that shot, I can't I have to leave it in. And the editors like I don't care if it took you six months, it doesn't work out. You know, and that's kind of what you need sometimes. So all for all those, you know, Director editors out there,

Sven Pape 43:16
sometimes it helps if you have to work fast. I mean, I saw your film, I didn't realize that you spend only that little time cutting it and that you also edit it yourself. And it's tight. It works.

Alex Ferrari 43:29
That means a lot coming from your he's anybody where he's talking about on the corner of ego and desire guys, as he got he got a sneak preview. Nice, we're gonna say coming out. And I'm in the middle of signing a deal right now going back and forth with my attorneys. And if I do get it with this distribution deal, I'll go theatrical, so it's gonna be really fun. It's gonna be a small theatrical run, which I'm really super excited about.

Sven Pape 43:51
Well, thank you for showing it to me, but it feels like I mean, it didn't feel like you needed another two, three months of editing and re editing to figure this movie out. And sometimes that you're on a deadline, that's the greatest thing that can happen to you. That's what I love about YouTube is like, I want to make a video within a week. So whatever happens happens, and sometimes they turn out great just because I couldn't really think about it that much. It's all instinct.

Alex Ferrari 44:18
Yeah, it's all it's and I think also because, you know, you and I have been editing for so many years. It is it's it's subconscious at this point. It is something that we have all this experience. And we have all these tools that we put in our toolbox over the years as an editor that you just flow and it's just kind of like, you know, a painter painting or a musician playing the guitar, we just kind of riff and we just kind of see things like okay, this goes here, this goes there that see. And that takes time. That takes a lot of time to develop that. And that's why when I told him like yeah, cut that in about 10 days and you know, had a trailer done like it because I just didn't have and that wasn't a deadline. I just, I was done. I was like okay, you know, it's done, and I It didn't, I didn't just cut it one take that was a rough cut, then I had people come in, then I had some things Chuck cut out. But I had an assemble cut, if you could believe it, I actually had to cut out seven minutes out of the whole movie, because it was just fat. I had to just trim it down to tighten things up, and it worked. But that means a lot coming from you. That definitely means a lot. So I appreciate it. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Sven Pape 45:34
And that goes back to what I was saying before, like, I like to give it my best shot the first time around, because I know this, like what you're saying it's all instinct, like, I don't want to, I don't want to slow down for the instinct and just gonna make it like everything that was shot and the original plan, I want to already take advantage of this instinct and immediately make it work. And so hopefully the director is open to this idea. With the cavea, we can go back and try anything but that first go around, really trust your editor, if you feel like it's a good one, to just go at it and be ruthless.

Alex Ferrari 46:14
I think a lot of times too, as editors, we second guess get second guess ourselves a lot. It's part of that kind of comes with the territory. But so many times in my career, it's always the first the first instinct cut is the one that works. And I would spend an hour recording it. And at the end of that hour, you're like son of a bitch. It was perfect the way it was, and I had

Sven Pape 46:34
to go back. Usually the first cat is pretty good. It's like 85%, right, and then it goes down, like you're trying to fix it to get it up to that 90 95%, which is really hard. So it goes down to 60/75, it's getting worse and worse. And at some point, it's going to come back up and you're going to get there eventually. But it's going to be just a valley of misery for a long time before you get it even back up to where it was originally.

Alex Ferrari 47:02
I think it depending on the kind of story you're trying to tell the kind of film it is, especially when you're editing a lot of it. I love going on instinct now. Because I feel I feel safe and comfortable in my own instincts at this point. And in my own experience. So when I I go, I actually rather not think tremendously heavily about it. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, well, we work it but just to kind of flow off that instinct. Again, it takes time to build. I think it's the it's the best. And with my films that I've done recently, it's exactly how I cut them really quickly, faster than I should have probably but I but they just rolled because I was like the ttttt. And I don't know if you've had the experience I'm sure you have when you're directing something. And then you you know the footage already, you've already got the selects almost in your head, where you could just like okay, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and even move so quickly. It's a very interesting experience directing and editing, especially if you've been an editor for a long time. And you start off as an editor.

Sven Pape 47:59
Yeah. Yeah, it's not easy. I mean, I've done it twice. It certainly took me longer to edit a film that I directed myself. Now it's up for doing it in 10 days.

Alex Ferrari 48:11
Now, I want to ask you something about branding. Yeah. Because you've done a great job of branding yourself as an editor you've built like this whole thing with this guy edits and, and a podcast and everything. So as just on a, I know you have, you're basically an online business right now, your side hustle, if you will, of this guy edits everything, but then you still edit. And that's also a revenue stream, you're still that's your career, that's your income, which kind of feeds the other thing. Yeah. But on a just a point of view like this, if I, as a director, were looking for an editor, and I happen to type in editor and I'm like, look at that, look what he's doing. You have built yourself up as an authority in this space, where you might be the best editor in the world, you might not be that good. But at the end of the day, the assumption or the image of the brand that you've created, says that you know what you're doing. And I also get a feeling about who you are as a as a person as a potential collaborator. That's such an amazing thing. And I have not seen much of it for editors. I've seen it for directors, I've seen it for writers, even a cinematographers, but I don't see it often with editor. So I really want to talk to you about the power of branding, the importance of branding yourself as a post production professional, if that's like all the editors out there who just want to be editors to brand themselves and how important and what any tips you can give.

Sven Pape 49:35
Yeah, so branding, I think is so important, especially now with the competition be what it is. I'm not saying everybody needs to have a YouTube channel. I need to make a business a side hustle a lot of the branding part, but I think it's important for editors to understand that they are not just somebody that is an artist, collaborator, but they actually stand for something, a brand is a promise of an experience. And you need to portray that to your client, your director, what that experience is going to be like. You need to stand for something you will always be listening, you will never refuse to make a note to, to do a note, you will always be open to try something you will be on time, whatever these values are, is what needs to be part of how you talk about your work. So that you can get to those clients that really value that and are willing to pay you rate. And that you that keep coming back so that you have a career where you can make a living and you can leverage up, you can go from one project, and then take these opportunities where you can move up to maybe from cutting television to feature whatever wherever you are, from wedding, to corporate, from corporate to TV, there will always be these opportunities if you make this experience, amazing for the client, like I want the client to go through this cutting a project with me and then turn around and hire me for the next project until every one of their producer friends what an amazing editor I have, if they don't have a job for me that these people start calling me. So that's what branding is all about.

Alex Ferrari 51:26
And in today's world, you've got us thinking you got to you got to rise above all of this other competition and by branding yourself. You definitely can and you've done a fantastic job of it, sir. So my next feature my call you, sir. interested, it's gonna be interesting. What are you gonna do next? Now, and I always like asking editors this, what is the craziest thing that's ever happened in an edit suite that you've been a part of? Because I have my story, which I'll tell you, but I want to I want to hear yours first. Okay, I was cutting an independent, see how quickly he went? Do you see how quickly he went to that audience?

Sven Pape 52:05
It was probably like one or 2am right directly as James Franco. You walk up right there.

Alex Ferrari 52:12
That's all you need to do. Okay.

Sven Pape 52:15
He was out at night. He wasn't drinking or anything. He said pretty pretty straight shooter comes in. Part of his entourage is Lindsey lowen. She walks in and just sits down on the floor next to me like right at the monitor. Everybody's in the back on the couch watching the scene. She just sits right there. And just like gazes on the screen and says nothing. And I'm like, Okay, this is, this is how this is me. This is my life. Go ahead. I'm gonna be covering tonight. And then yeah, we spent like a good two, three hours. And she was just looking at it, just looking at highs. And I don't know if it's the craziest. But that was pretty

Alex Ferrari 52:58
well, that's, that's pretty insane minds is I was actually editing a commercial at in Miami. And I had clients and I had agency and I had the client. So I had both in the room. And in the middle of the cut, like so because and we you know, commercials you take it could take I've seen commercials takes three or four months to be cut back in the day. So it just spends money, money, money, you know, back when the budgets were around. And midway through our edit on the on the commercial, commercial campaign, the agency got fired. Hmm. So, but they still got to finish this thing. So now you can sense the animosity in the room. And as an editor, you're just Switzerland, man, you're just I'm just I'm not getting involved. I don't know anything. So then a cut comes. And now you know, it's not about the Edit. It's about something else in the room. And I was in my late 20s I think your early 30s. And all of a sudden, they're like, Alex, what do you think of that cut? I'm like, I don't know, it could work this way. But what do you think of this idea of like, I don't know, it could it could work that way too. So I'm just completely Switzerland. And then they start going at each other. Like they start yelling at each other behind me and I'm just I'm like this, I'm like, I don't see anything. I'm just on my avid I'm just cutting and all of a sudden fists are thrown and they start fighting behind me. I was like, holy cow like literally got on the floor. They start punching each other. I'm like, I'm pulling one guy off the bed. I'm like, I didn't have that. No, I'm like, Are you kidding me? It was it was an intense day. But no to everybody listening. If you're the editor in a situation like that, do not take sides ever take sides. So I'm I'm imagining to like when you got a director and a producer. That must be difficult, like if you got a big powerful producer and a big powerful director and they both want two different things. What do you do? That's a question. I'm gonna ask you that. What do you do? Have you got James Cameron with a chain cameo we sat with James Cameron, obviously. But if you've got I mean, that's just I mean, there's, there's, you know, he's he's James Cameron. But if you've got like a powerful producer, and you've been spending a lot of time with the director, and you've kind of befriend the director, because you're spending 10 hours a day with them for months at a time. What do you do? What's the choice do you make? It's kind of like Sophie's Choice a lot of times because the producers the when the higher jus more likely, and might be able to get you more work later. Is this your I don't know, what are the politics in that in your opinion?

Sven Pape 55:31
Well, I think there are two, two options. One is I will always side with a director. And I'll make that clear. Or I'll just I'll point out Look, if you want my opinion, I'm going to I'm here to support the director. And so I might go that route. I mean, it's really important that that relationship between the director and editor is not in question, I need the director to trust me that I have his back. So that's priority number one. And that sometimes means the person that is cutting the check, I need to figure out a way how to make sure the producer understands what my role is. That that's one but it does help to sometimes be like Zen about it and try not to take a stand.

Alex Ferrari 56:20
It's rough. It's rough.

Sven Pape 56:21
Yeah. I do have a I do have a James Cameron story. Yeah. And it paid off as many of those as you want, sir, continue to stand up for something because I don't even remember what the exact specifics were. But something was wrong. He's like, somebody screwed up. This is not where who thought about this idealistic idea to do it this way, like, shoot it this way, or whatever. No, it was me. So I was like, nobody's silent room. And I'm like, just in the spur of the moment. I like, I wasn't me, I take full responsibility in like, he was about to explode. And just the fact that I actually came up and came clean, he, it immediately changed. He's like, well, we're gonna change this. And he like, became calm. So it also sort of taught me at the moment, it's okay sometimes to screw up. If you own it, you can actually get some some brownie points for just being courageous to, to actually admit it. My friend courageous is not the word to use

Alex Ferrari 57:19
when you're just coming out of film school and you're standing up to the camera and going I did it. Sorry. That's generally when I promise you that he probably respected you a hell of a lot more after that. Yeah, it felt like okay, he there's a little bit of Okay, what are some backbone here? Yeah, I can work with it. Now. So Okay, any other James Cameron stories? Because I just love hearing James Cameron source? None that you can say publicly? Fair enough. Fair enough? No, I mean, when you're when you're dealing, and I mean, God, it's such a weird. It's such a weird place to be when you're an editor that sometimes you're at the you're at the service of, of working with the director, sometimes as an editor, you feel so passionate about a cut, or you feel so passionate about something you're doing, and you disagree wholeheartedly with the director, where in your mind, you're going, he's gonna ruin it, or she's gonna ruin this. Yeah. And that's a balance. That's hard. And it's not just editors, it's every core member that deals with a director. How do you deal How do you come to grips with that? Because I know you want to, you know, be there of service to the director. And I tell you what I do, I always I always offer to pay the bill twice. That's what I always ask my saying, I'm like, Okay, I'll offer to pay the check twice. I'll go look, I really liked this kind of thing the way she goes, but this is a noble Look, listen to it just is that no, no, I think we're gonna go this way. Okay. And that's because at that point, I just can't, I can't fight anymore. And early in my career, I would style would just be sticking harder. But as you got older, just like, you know what, that's just not my movie. I gotta just be here at the service of the director. So what do you what do you say?

Sven Pape 58:58
Yeah, I think so too. I mean, I'm more passionate about actually showing my idea, as opposed to having my idea be the idea that ends up being in the film, as long as, as I was able to make my case, that's most of the time. That's really all I need to satisfy my ego. But sometimes you do feel like, Oh, this, like this is really crucial. This is a moment that's going to break the film. And what I tried to do is there a lot of little battles that I won't fight, where I'll give the director, whatever they want, just to build up goodwill, build up goodwill, give them everything they want, even if I think this is not going to make the film any better. This is not going to have a big impact films are very, they have a duality. They either work or they don't the scene either works or doesn't. And once once I feel like it's working, just add all that to it, make it whatever their specific reasons that I don't have to understand And then take that goodwill. And every once in a while, go to the bank and say, Okay, now I would like to withdraw some of that and say, Okay, this is the moment. You've seen me work with you all the way. But I think right now here, this is, this is an important point, when you should really think about where whether we're going to go this way addicting, this is what's going to happen, what you're risking, and then see if the director will trust me at that point to say, Okay, I'm just going to, I'm just going to buy into this because you said, so that happens every once in a while, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes they like reconsider, they feel really strongly about it. And that's all I can do at that point. Sometimes you just have to let it go. Because you could be wrong, too.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:47
Yeah, I know. Absolutely. I've remember early, early in my career, where I would literally just, I would pout, I would go out, and I would just be like, throw a little bit of a hissy fit. I'm like, fine, I'll just edit this for you. And I'll watch what and I wouldn't call that angry editing. So just like, just boom, boom, boom, here play, and then you would slam the spacebar to play. And then we just play it and then, but the worst part about that situation is that if it worked, it's so hard to come back from that, like, did that once or twice I was like, You know what? Just keep quiet, do what they want. Because you look like an absolute ass when they look at you like it works, doesn't it? And you're like, damn it, it does work. God. That's a young editors vibe. That's a very young editor who does that? I hope if there's older writers who still do that, that's another issue.

Sven Pape 1:01:34
Well, at least you're on fire. And when you're on fire, you do most of the times I'm pretty good editing.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:39
That's true. I mean, yeah, when you heat it up, you just like, are you just that energy flows through it. Now, I'm gonna ask you a few questions, ask all of my guests. What would you What advice would you give a filmmaker or an editor specifically, advice you would give them that they want to break into the business today.

Sven Pape 1:02:00
Always be editing. So if you if you're looking for jobs, you need to be working on projects, there's always something that you could be doing other than sending out resumes and sending out emails and trying to talk to people, you need to be working on projects, find a friend, find something on Craigslist, that you can keep honing your skill, you're going to grow much, much faster

Alex Ferrari 1:02:22
that way? And do you advise people buying their own systems? Or getting a system that they can at least work on by themselves?

Sven Pape 1:02:30
I won't. I mean, if they have the means, I would definitely say have you? I mean, you should? Why would you not be editing? Why would you not be cutting on your phone? If that's the only thing you can you have? But this editing software's for free, you probably want to have a computer if you if you're working in the business.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:49
As a business. Yeah, you should probably have a computer.

Sven Pape 1:02:52
But if you can afford you can be cutting on an iPhone. There's great software out there. I think it's called Luma. Fusion, and you could be cutting, cutting on that isn't so 20 bucks,

Alex Ferrari 1:03:04
or even DaVinci Resolve is free. Yeah. And I don't know if they have a phone out. They don't have a phone app, but it is a free app on a Mac or PC. It's an excellent system. Now, can you tell me what book had the biggest impact on your life or career?

Sven Pape 1:03:23
I mean, I always say my favorite film book is in the blink of an eye, no watermarks, but a great book. But the book that probably had the biggest impact is one that nobody's read. It's called sky walking.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:36
Ohh yeah. I read I love Skywalker. It was a great book.

Sven Pape 1:03:40
By Dale Pollack, I believe, and he was the one that motivated me to try and go to film school here in America. And he ended up actually being a teacher at ASI for me, so he's, he's been a great mentor.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:54
That's a good book, everybody. Now what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film business or in life?

Sven Pape 1:04:03
Really embrace rejection? Like failing? is the greatest way to grow? I used to just waste so much time failing and then just being paralyzed instead of failing and then say, okay, what's next? That's that probably cost me 10 years.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:22
Oh, my friend cost me many years like that, too. It's no because I always tell people I say preach this from the top of the mountain as well like fail and fail often because it's the best teacher you're gonna have. And you don't learn from winning. You just don't don't learn from winning you learn from failing and you can't let it paralyze you and it paralyzes you that's your ego going like that if you're trying to process it, it's it's like oh, my poor little ego is hurt like Nah, man, you just gotta keep going. And and everyone who's ever made it in this world, in the our business or in general, but like, let's just keep our business. They all failed. You know, the Terminator. Let's stay On camera and the Terminator came out of one of Canada's biggest failures. Parana to the spawning. Yeah, you know, and and and that's you know and Spielberg had failures like look at 1941 for God's sakes and then he did that film thing called Raiders of the Lost Ark, you know, so it all kind of it all works out at the end. Now, the most difficult question of all three of your favorite films of all time?

Sven Pape 1:05:26
Oh, that's an easy one. The big blue look around blue Prince Prince of Tides by Barbra Streisand and real winner by Alfred Hitchcock, a very eclectic group my friend very eclectic. Yeah, one is visual one is drama and one assistance.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:47
Oh man, well, rear window is a masterpiece. I did enjoy Princess Bride Princess Bride with us and also a good movie by the Prince of Tides. But first time in the show's history, big blue is the big blue right? It's the Big Blue Yeah, the big blue I absolutely love what an amazing from those during my video store days. So I remember it very very clearly. And that's when I was kind of introduced. I think to know Luke vasana was introduced by La Femme Nikita but then I went back to look at his other what other work he did subway as well, I think Yeah, yeah, subway and a couple other movies around subway. Yeah, that was called subway. Yeah, I was about the London Underground or something like that. Yeah, yeah. And but everybody listening you've got to go find the Big Blue it has a young genre No. in it who is absolutely brilliant based on a true story. What What I miss Look, I miss Luke's I miss Luke

Sven Pape 1:06:43
What was in the film that he recently did?

Alex Ferrari 1:06:46
Yeah, that's it the battle is something of the stars or whatever that sci fi movie.

Sven Pape 1:06:50
I thought he was back like the first 10 minutes. I'm like, Oh, this is

Alex Ferrari 1:06:53
This fifth element again. We're back with the fifth element. And then it just... Leon and Leon I mean,

Sven Pape 1:07:02
Yeah, can you know the Big Blue you should see on the big screen though. It's

Alex Ferrari 1:07:09
Good luck. But yeah, big blue. If you're gonna watch this on films, alright, I'm gonna just geek out on besar for a second. I'm gonna go big blue the Femme Nikita Leon and Fifth Element I think in that that's a good cross. That's a good cross and what was the one he did the black and white one with about the guardian angel that was beautiful too. I love that movie. It was came out like a few like a while ago No, you're not talking about Joan of Arc No, no, no, it's a blue Joan of Arc black and white movie called I think something Angel and it was a lupus on film is all shot in black and white with this beautiful supermodel is the angel you see now you have to go look for this film. And there's like this little French dude who's like you know he's an ugly little dude and he's got like horrible life and this beautiful supermodel literal angel comes in to guide him through his lap Oh it's so it takes place in Paris Of course and

Sven Pape 1:08:05
Is it like a take on when vendors movie or not?

Alex Ferrari 1:08:08
I'm not sure I'm not sure I might it might be a little bit but it's kind of like it's almost kind of like it's a wonderful life kind of okay but not as Frank Capri it's like if Luke person would make it's a wonderful song a little like wings of desire yes a little bit but not as look as wonderful that they kind of fall in love. This is a little a little bit different, a little bit more, a little bit more violent. Because it's Luke, but it's a great film too as well. Now where can people find you and the amazing work that you're doing Sven?

Sven Pape 1:08:42
On YouTube you can search for thisguyedits.com that will take you to the channel or you can did I say .com? That's the website thisguyedits.com. Yeah, that's there. It's all the same handle Twitter this guy out it's there's a Facebook group which I really enjoy because we actually get into like, discussing some of the topics we deal with. So people can give me feedback we can like crowdsource some of the research that kind of stuff. So Facebook group this guy edits.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:11
And the funny thing is after you came up with the brand this guy edits I've noticed that this audio guy shows up and this other guy shows up and this other thing so I was like oh send started something now all of a sudden like all these other brands are popping up like well I'm this guy audio records and this guy production designs in this like all these things have popped up afterwards. But you were the originator sir. Nice. Nice. Thank you so much for dropping some amazing knowledge bombs on the tribe today brother so I appreciate it man.

Sven Pape 1:09:41
Absolutely Take care.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:44
I want to thanks Sven for coming on the show and dropping those major editing knowledge bombs on the tribe today. So and thank you so much for taking the time. I truly truly appreciate it. If you guys want to check out Stan his work, his YouTube channel have all the links on The show notes at indiefilmhustle.com/323. If you haven't already, please leave a review for the show at filmmakingpodcast.com on iTunes, it really, really helps to show out a lot. I truly appreciate it guys. And guys also want to thank you all for all the tribe members who have purchased my book shooting for the mob. It has now made it a best seller on Amazon. I am so humbled and grateful for it, the reviews keep coming in. If you have not left a review on Amazon, please just go to shootingforthemob.com and leave a review on Amazon that is super, super important to me. And it really helps this book get out to as many filmmakers and everybody else in the world and really, really would help me out a lot. So thank you guys again, for all the support. I truly, truly appreciate it. I am working on some cool stuff for the tribe. Some pretty epic things that can't keep you know, I gotta keep it under the belt right now, but some very, very cool stuff. So keep an eye out and an ear out for that. And that's the end of another episode of the indie film hustle podcast. As always keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive. And I'll talk to you soon.