IFH 738: Inside Warner Bros Writing Program with Rebecca Windsor



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Today on the show is Rebecca Windsor, the Vice-President of the Warner Bros. Television Workshop, the premier writing and directing program for professionals looking to start and/or further their careers in television.

As an extension of her role developing new talent, Rebecca was recruited to help launch Warner Bros. new digital content brand Stage13, overseeing the critically acclaimed short-form digital series Snatchers, which premiered at the 2017 Sundance Film Festival and is available on Verizon’s go90 platform.

Previously, she was the Creative Producing Initiative Manager of Sundance Institute’s Feature Film Program, playing a key role in coordinating the Creative Producing Lab and Summit, Screenwriters and Directors Labs, and Episodic Story Lab.

Prior to Sundance, Windsor was Manager of Development at Samuel L. Jackson’s television company, UppiTV, and at Mandeville Films. She started her career as an assistant at the Broder Webb Chervin Silbermann Agency and ICM. A San Diego native, she attended Northwestern University, where she received a BS in Theatre.

Enjoy my conversation with Rebecca Windsor.

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Alex Ferrari 0:00
I like to welcome to the show Rebecca Windsor. How you doing, Rebecca?

Rebecca Windsor 0:14
I'm good. How are you?

Alex Ferrari 0:15
I am doing fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the show. We we have a, a history together because our kids used to go to school together. And that's how we met originally. And I think one day, I realized, like you said it in passing, like I work at Warner Brothers like, wait, what do you do? And I think one day like we I was walking my girls to school and you like, Stop being like you're famous. You're in the LA Times. So we discovered that

Rebecca Windsor 0:41
You were some guy that like, I don't know, maybe worked in sound design, or I don't know, like, I knew you were tangentially related but like, I didn't know what you did. And then I saw you on the front cover of LA Times. And I was like, Oh my god.

Alex Ferrari 0:51
Exactly. And my girls like why did what why did why did? Why does it stop you what's going on? And it was so funny. Like, are you famous Daddy? I'm like, no, no, I'm, I've got less than five minutes.

Rebecca Windsor 1:07
For the day you were famous

Alex Ferrari 1:08
For the day, I was famous. I did get a lot of emails that day. Um, but yeah, but we and we just recently ran into each other at the Austin Film Festival, which was also a pleasant surprise. I'm just walking around. Like Rebecca said, it was

Rebecca Windsor 1:21
Out of context. I'm like, have it I was like, What is your face doing in this like barbecue mixer? And then it was like I put two and two together Oh, yeah. You moved to Austin last year Of course, he would be here.

Alex Ferrari 1:32
Exactly. So um, but so after after talking a bit, we're like, You got to come on the show. Because I don't think anybody really knows the inside workings of what you do over at Warner Brothers, and the workshops and things that you that you are in charge of. But before we get there, how did we get started in this insane business?

Rebecca Windsor 1:55
I will try and tell the CliffsNotes version or I don't know what the kids are calling it the new CliffsNotes it's something else,right?

Alex Ferrari 2:02
The YouTube video version Yes.

Rebecca Windsor 2:05
So um, so I grew up in San Diego. From the time I was, I mean, for as long as I can remember, I wanted to be an actor. I actually auditioned and got a callback for Punky Brewster that did not get the rule. But it was all I ever wanted to do. So I went to Northwestern and study theater. And then from there, I moved to New York, I think, you know, New York was always the dream of, you know, go be a struggling actress. And, you know, theater is much more important, and prestigious than, you know, coming to LA and I think also the back of my head, being from California, it just made the most sense that I you know, wanted to go to New York. So went to New York, I spent most of my time working in restaurants and bars, and you know, taking acting classes and you know, doing like really, really terrible student films and off off off off off Broadway, black box theater, but really, you know, was not making a living from it. And, and that was fine, because I, you know, I was young and I thought, you know, I was living the life. And it felt like what I always told myself was, you just have to persevere, you know, people stop pursuing acting all the time. And if I'm, if I stick it out, and I get the one job, then it'll just be a domino effect, you know, work begets work, and then you know, I'll have a career. So that was the plan. And then, you know, after a few years, as I saw, it wasn't happening as fast for me. And also, you can't tell from zoom. I'm six feet tall. So I'm not the most easily castable actor out there. I'm never going to be an ingenue. Um, I, I think it was that and looking at my friends who are also actors who I felt like were even more ambitious and more dedicated than I was, I mean, I was dedicated, but I also wanted to have a life, you know, and then when I met my now husband, I think that was the real thing where, you know, it's one thing when you're, you know, 2223, and you think about buying a home and getting married and having kids, those are hypothetical things that will happen at some point in your life. But when I met my now husband, I made this things a little bit more tangible as something that could happen soon. And so I think it was, it was hard for me to sort of say out loud, that I don't want to pursue acting anymore. And so I kind of, you know, I just kind of kept going through the motions, even though I don't think I'd ever stopped wanting to act. You know, the passion is still there, but it's just the life of an actor. And it's not the easiest. And I'm to, I don't know, tie day to, you know, kind of career oriented to I think that business part of it in the fact that so much is out of your control as an actor, that you have to wait for someone else to give you a job as opposed to your filmmaker you find a way to make your films or you're a writer you can write no one has to give you the opportunity but as an actor He has to give you the opportunity. And it just felt I had, like I had no control over it. So anyways, all of that, you know, combined with, I think, New York running its course for me, I love living there, but it's pretty, you know, tough place to live. And I always felt the pull to come back to California. So we got married, moved back to California, then it felt like okay, now I have to start acting again in a brand new city, find new management, all of that it just felt like, insurmountable, you know, rock being pushed up the hill. And so my sister in law who does not work in the industry, but is very smart lady said to me, Listen, you can go back to acting in six months, or you can go back in 20 years. But if there's anything else you want to do, you should probably start thinking about it now, because you're getting older. And you're going to have to start out at the bottom and work your way up. And it's going to get harder the older you get. So I thought those were wise words, very nice. I started reading I don't even know if they still have it. But there used to be the UTA job list that would come out every week that listed you know, assistant jobs and internships and things like that. So I got an internship back when you could still get unpaid internships, not for college credit, because I already graduated college. So I got an internship at a feature production company and learned about development. And the light bulb in my head went off, where I was still able to use that creative muscle that I you know, was using as an actor. But, you know, working with that we're working with writers and you know, making making scripts better. So it still fulfilled that, that drive in that you know, desire and that passion, but hopefully with more of a career path. So I had the internship everyone there said go work at an agency and if you don't want to be an agent, so I went I got a job at a literary agency called rotor Webb turbine Silverman, which was a boutique agency that was small but represented on the TV side. People like Shonda Rhimes, and Chuck Lorre and Don Bellisario created NCIS. So like, they were a powerhouse in TV. And I went in thinking, No, I want to learn features, like that's the sexy job. But the only desk that was open was a TV agent. So that, okay, fine, I'll just take it for a couple of months, and then move on to a feature desk when it opens. But so I get on the TV desk. And this was like the first renaissance of TV like, first year, there was the Friday Night Lights pilot, and you had you know, obviously, it was Cronos. And, and Lawson, like, you know, start studying to be this like, really like this wealth of really amazing content. So I think it was that like, seeing that the quality was there. And then also, as they learn how the business is worked, I realized that I really like the television business. And I like the cyclical nature of it again, that like, type a sort of structured brain that I have.

Alex Ferrari 7:49
Well, I mean, I mean, this is the one thing that so many people coming up don't understand is like film, film feature films are sexy. That's what that's gives all the splash. But where people really make money is in television. Yeah. And people don't think about that. And now Thank God, you know, there is such an amazing renaissance in the creative of television. And I mean, pretty much started with the Sopranos. It kind of, you know, David pretty much opened the crash the door open, and then everything. Everybody just started doing this amazing work from Breaking Bad madman, and they just so on and so forth. But people still because the sizzle, the Oscars are a lot sexier than the Emmys. And it's just the whip but smart people in the business television and like television directors do very well. Whereas feature directors are struggling to put I just talked to a feature director the other day who will remain nameless, who's like I've been nominated for Oscars, and I I have to do commercials to make ends meet. Because it's between job after job and he doesn't do like giant jobs that are paying him obscene amount. But he's very well known. And he's Philbert were well respected. I was like, that's the world we live in. That is, you know, that is the world we live in. It's not the 80s anymore.

Rebecca Windsor 9:08
100% and, you know, and I can talk about this a little bit, you know, later but you know, I have found just in the last several years as I talked to, you know, indie film directors and sort of trying to like sell them on the directors workshop and all of that and when I was first having those conversations like six years ago, I get a lot of Sure I'll think about it and you could tell there why would I ever do TV got to now people are like oh my god there's this you know, episodic directing, like yes I you know, I really want to do that you know, both for hitting you know, sustainability like you said just like making a living but I think again, TVs a little bit sexier than it was before so much was my my minds are open to it. So

Alex Ferrari 9:48
You know what's sexy though, that check.

Rebecca Windsor 9:52
The check is very sexy. You know, not not living hand to mouth you know, like in a tiny little studio apartment is

Alex Ferrari 10:01
Exactly, exactly now, you early in your career you got to work with or assist. Mr. Todd Lieberman, who is a very well known producer who's done a few movies, not many. But he's done. He's done quite a few films. What was the biggest lesson you took away from working with Todd?

Rebecca Windsor 10:23
Well, I think you know, but the lesson, I don't know if it's specifically with Todd, but it's with that company, which is Mandeville films that he runs with David overband. And they, you know, made like, a lot of really big movies. And, you know, very successful feature producers. The lesson well, if basically, the lesson that confirmed for me is I don't want to work in features. And I took that, I took that job, you know, after having worked at the agency, and started at the agency, I was like, Okay, I want to be a TV executive. And then I interviewed with Todd, and, you know, always take the meeting. And so I'm like, Okay, I'm meeting the President of this big feature company, I'm never gonna get it. And then he hired me. And I thought, okay, and he told me an interview, they were having a TV executive. So I thought, okay, if I'm working with the president, I will have my hands and everything. And so yes, right now, it's mostly features, but the TV, you know, their TV side is growing, too. So that's sort of why I took that job. And, you know, and I'll get to your question in a second. But while I was there, you know, it, it just, you know, it's even for a successful feature company, it took them several years to get their TV business off the ground, which is now very successful, but at the time, you know, it was still like, 90% of what I was doing was features. But, so yeah, I mean, it can, again, having the two and some odd years that I was there, we made five movies, which is, you know, pretty unheard of, or, you know, production companies these days. And even still, it's just that it's and it was, you know, the, the pace, you know, we had movies that weren't, you know, had opened offices in pre production, and we're, like, four weeks out of production, and then just, like, fell apart, you know, and, and things that were in development for years, and years and years, and then things that would fall apart. And then we'd come back five, and I was just like, I can't deal with that, like, I want to know that I'm working on something. And then, and it's either moving forward, or it's dead. I don't want to spend five to 10 years hope, you know, hoping that this project.

Alex Ferrari 12:15
Right, yeah, that's, that's not the way television works. Generally. They don't, they don't.

Rebecca Windsor 12:19
No no. And I think and I think for him, you know, Todd is, I mean, he's so smart. I mean, it was, it was a, it was really like a masterclass in, in, like, being with the studio producer, you know, being able to listen in on his calls and hear how he navigated tricky situations and how, when, you know, like, when he would get in the middle of, you know, I don't know, like an argument or like, having to deal with a situation, being able to, like, be that mediator and make each person think that he was on their side, and, you know, like, you know, fully supported them while he had to sort of navigate all those politics. I mean, it was really, it was pretty impressive. So I think that and, you know, and also just his tastes and his just his the amount of work that he did, I mean, he's a workaholic. And that's what made him so successful. So Young. Right. It's pretty intensive times. But But yeah, I mean, he just has a drive like no other.

Alex Ferrari 13:18
Now, you also got a chance to work at a little startup film festival called Sundance.

Rebecca Windsor 13:27
I keep all the credit for it success,

Alex Ferrari 13:28
Obviously. Obviously, it was you and Bob, you and Bob all the way that you worked over at the the institute, correct?

Rebecca Windsor 13:35

Alex Ferrari 13:35
What did you do for Sundance?

Rebecca Windsor 13:37
So So there's, you know, the Sundance Film Festival, and then there's the Sundance Institute, which runs the festival. So the festival is obviously the public facing, part of it that everybody knows about. The Institute is a nonprofit, and it is dedicated to supporting independent film artists in various mediums through through a lot of different programs. So I was in the feature film program, which was like the narrative side, there is a documentary side that is very successful. They have new frontier, which is like VR and AR and transmedia, you know, sleeve, a lot of different things like that. So, within within the feature film program, they run labs. So there is episodic Lab, I'm sorry, the episodic lab we started while I was there, but the ones that have sort of been around forever were the screenwriters lab in the director's lab. And again, like the people who came through that are people like Quentin Tarantino and you know and Ryan Coogler and Damien Chazelle and Chloe Zhao and like, you know, it's just like it goes kind of on and on and, and I always love like one of the stories that I heard from way back when was one of the first projects that they had in like the very early 80s was a was a screenplay called 3000. That was

Alex Ferrari 14:51
The pretty woman. Isn't it the pretty woman? Yeah,

Rebecca Windsor 14:53
Pretty woman. Yeah. But like when it went through the lab, it was like a dark drama about you know, like, not happy ending Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, a pretty woman, but you know, again, you know, like Tyco, ytt. And like all these people who just, you know, like, the history and the legacy of what they've done is pretty amazing. So, um, the labs are their talent pipeline programs, people apply to them. And, and the goal is how to, you know, trying to find filmmakers? Who, on the, I think on the director side of it, they have to be first time director, first time feature director, so they have to make sure it's I mean, or they have to, you know, done some work. And on the screenwriters, I think they, I think you're allowed to have had one feature credit on my, around the desert writers. But, you know, how do you take these independent artists who have, and it's project specific. So it's not just, you know, we're letting you in, it's, we're letting you in, and we're supporting you to try and get this film made. And they are very intense labs that take place at the Sundance Resort, which is a little bit outside Park City, there were like four to five day labs, and it's sort of like boot camp, in the best, like, in the best, and the most intense sense, like a creative boot camp where they bring in advisors again, you know, like, the top writers and directors in, in Hollywood, and a lot of alumni who come back to act as advisors in your assigned advisor to have read your script. And then you do these, like, two hour notes, sessions, you know, with, you know, again, these like, you know, ridiculously talented professionals who are trying to just give you ideas and help you make the best version of your film. And then you take all of that and go away. And, you know, then the next version is like the kitchen sink version, which is pretty terrible, usually, and then you just sort of like, let it marinate and see, what are the things that I you know, what were the common themes among all of the feedback that I got that are worth incorporating? So there's that that sort of creative process. And then post lab Sundance is really involved in just helping you try to get your movie made, even though as a nonprofit, they don't produce it, you don't finance it. It's, it's a lot of, you know, networking, how do we make connections? So if you need to find a producer, or an executive producer, right now, there's a lot of those people in their in their, Sundance family, extended family. So trying to find you those people like what can what can Sundance do to help you make your movie, if it's, you know, introductions to find in series is if it's introductions to casting directors, editors, whatnot. And then also kind of, you know, again, continuing helping to develop the scripts. And then, you know, ideally, hopefully, you got to make your movie and comes out and all that.

Alex Ferrari 17:44
So that's pretty, that's a pretty cool, yeah, I've heard of the legends of those labs. I've talked to a few people who've gone through them, and it's, it sounds like summer camp. But for filmmaking, it's like, the bad you've got, like, insane as actors who just show up, and they're like, working with like, workshopping your idea and stuff like that. Yeah. It sounds it sounds to me, like I sounds amazing. I think everything

Rebecca Windsor 18:06
But I mean, if anybody can get in, it is like the best experience and you know, they have anything to say about Sundance is that I know, probably from the outside, it sometimes can feel like, very elitist or insular or whatever. And it's, it's the opposite of that. The people I send into, that I work with are the most dedicated to the mission of supporting, you know, independent artists who are just trying to get their $500,000 movie made. So it's, it's, there's a lot of sacrifices that are made, you know, because because the people who work there believe so strongly. So really is a family of sorts, you know, in the best sense.

Alex Ferrari 18:44
No, I have to ask you, because I found out during my research that you worked with a an actor that worked at his production company, and Mr. Samuel L. Jackson, the legendary icon, that Samuel Jackson, I got to ask, What's it like working with Sam?

Rebecca Windsor 19:02
Um, I mean, it was, it was awesome. I mean, he's amazing. I was, like, the first time he ever came into the office, and this was the job I had before Sundance. The first time, you know, obviously, he's very busy. So it's not like he's coming to the office everyday because he's off making movies and stuff, but still very involved. But I remember the first time he came into the office, and at the time, I was still an assistant. And he was meeting with my boss in like, one door over but like, the door was open, and I'm like, you know, sitting there typing and doing my work and stuff, but I can hear him and it's just like, you're hearing Sam Jackson's voice and you're just like, This is so weird, because it's like, the voice is so iconic, you know. But then I also remember like another time he came into the office um, you know, it's like a year later and in our offices was on the CBS Radford buttons to your city, and right next to the lot is a subway, you know, sandwich. Yeah. And he like, he like walks in, carrying like a His Subway sandwich bag like to eat and I just I just like kept thinking like, what did the sandwich maker like it was working that way for like making minimum minimum wage. And like Samuel Jackson comes in ask for a sandwich. And he's like making it like, I'm

Alex Ferrari 20:13
He's probably like, make me my mother effin said no.

Rebecca Windsor 20:18
But no, I mean, what I will say about Sam is so nice and down to earth, you know, obviously very cool, and all of that, but really, really smart. Also, you know, the great thing about that job is, you know, sometimes with these, like, talent production companies, you know, actor driven pods, it's a vanity deal. It's like, someone, you know, is just like, oh, yeah, I want to make TV or whatever, and it's good. And it was never about that. For Sam, I think that came from the fact that he just was a voracious viewer of television, and was really passionate about producing it and creating and being responsible for putting great TV out there. And it was the best version of that kind of company where he, he trusted my boss and I and our extensive TV experience to sort of advise him on like, why this might work and why this might not, you know, but also used to, you know, being Sam Jackson, to our advantage, if that helps. So, you know, would go to like the network pitches, so we could try and sell the project in the room. And he would, he would give notes on material and again, like his, his notes and his feedback, were always so spot on, because he has worked with the best filmmakers out there. So he knows story. He knows character. But you know, if you have a note and you said, you know, that's not gonna work because X, Y or Z, he was like, Great moving on, like, I get it. So it was. It was really wonderful experience. And it was just, you know, I think like, the biggest disappointment was that we just never got anything on the air, which happens with production.

Alex Ferrari 21:55
It takes it takes a minute. Now, as a side piece of trivia, since you brought up the CBS slot. I don't know if you knew this or not. But my wife and I actually owned an olive oil and vinegar gourmet shop for three years and we were on Ventura Boulevard in Studio City right by Laurel Canyon. And our back door opened up into CBS. So it was your shop. It was it was called originally Ferrari olive oil is right out there and we don't get me it was it was a dark time in our lives. We're talking about like, nine years ago, eight years ago, so I'm like seven years ago. Something like that. And it was right there at CVS. I used to I used to actually get I was it. Oh, God, Brooklyn nine, nine, always had to shoot in the backlot right in our street. So the so location guys, like, Hey, we're gonna be shooting here. I'm like, well, you're gonna have to pay me cuz you're gonna disrupt my business. They're like, I know. So they would just pay off everybody. Just even if it was like two blocks away. We're like, hey, yeah, you just drop in business.

Rebecca Windsor 23:03
I think we mustn't just because I left. I stopped working at CVS in May of 2012. So we must have

Alex Ferrari 23:15
Just missed like, over we overlap like six months, maybe. So yeah,

Rebecca Windsor 23:20
I would have gone there. I love

Alex Ferrari 23:22
We had some we had some good. We had a lot of celebrities that would come in and buy for the holidays and buy for their offices and things like that. But that was a different life. It was a lifetime ago. But I just thought, because everyone listening knows. They're always asking me when they meet me. Did you really have an olive oil store? I'm like, yes, it's a large, long, dark story of, of times where I was, I was burnt out by the business. happened to the bathroom. It happens to the best of us now. But so now currently, you're working for Warner Brothers in the development? Well, in the workshop, what exactly do you do with Warner Brothers now?

Rebecca Windsor 24:00
Oh, so I run the Writers Workshop and the directors workshop. So two talent pipeline programs kind of similar to what Sundance does with their labs, but focused on on television. So one is for aspiring TV writers and one is for aspiring TV directors.

Alex Ferrari 24:17
Do they just end in they just submit? Like it's just an application?

Rebecca Windsor 24:22
Yeah, the both of them are application based. So I guess just it's easier to talk about them one at a time. So with the writers workshop, the application is open the month of May, we asked for a stack of a show that's on the air, which I know specs are a little bit out of fashion. But we do it for a couple of reasons. One, that is the job of a scarf writer is you have to write your show runners voice so for us if you if we're reading a spec of you know Mrs. Mays all are Stranger Things or whatnot, and it doesn't feel like the show you've failed the assignment. And you wouldn't get you know, you would be fired if you're working on a show and can't capture it. So and I also, you know, original pilots are very tough. And it's sometimes hard, you know, to do like an apples to apples comparing material. But if we have sort of a bar of where we know a show is meant, like to be done, we can also because we have such a high volume of applicants, we get, like 2500 submissions. So to get through that material quickly, and again, you know, we're using like Mrs. nasals as an example, like, okay, which are the ones that, you know, do not feel like the show, okay, those are easy passes, and then you know, go back and say, okay, which are the ones that really stand out. So we get through that. And then if you advance to the next round, then we would ask for an original pilot, or it can be it can be a screenplay, it can be a play, just, you know, some original material, because it is important to us to see what you know, your voice is as a writer. And then from there, we interview a smaller group of candidates, which is very important because TV writing is a communal experience. So it is very important that we know that you are an okay, cool, chill person that can sit around for 10 hours with a bunch of people.

Alex Ferrari 26:05
So the best advice, the best advice I've ever gotten, and the best. And this is the advice. I always tell people, what advice do you have, for me working in the business I go, the biggest piece of advice is, just don't be a dick. And if you that is so valuable. And if you could just sit in a room with someone for eight hours not want to kill them, that sometimes Trump's talent because you might have two people who are equally talented, maybe the other one's a little bit more talented, but if he's up he or she is rough to work with, though I always go with the person I can.

Rebecca Windsor 26:37
Yeah, it's like the showrunners putting together a dinner party, like who are they gonna want to be with? And yes, like, don't be a dick is like obvious, that it's still worth saying. But you know, beyond that, it's it's, I mean, we will look for more than that. I mean, there are people who are not dicks, but like, don't, you know, maybe you're a little socially awkward, you know, like, they're nice people, but you're just like, or they're just so introverted, that they just, you know, and again, everyone has nerves when they come in. So there's a lot of that. And there's also just, you know, we're looking for that like, that spark, you know, the Genesee quad of a person that's, you know, memorable. Whether it's in talking about why they write what they write, you know, what drew them to writing, you know, we want to feel passionate about championing these people, because I then have to put my name on the line when I try and get them staffed, and I'm sending them to show runners. So it is a reflection on me, so I really need to stand by them. So it is it is there's no exact science to any of it. But it's you know, you know what, when you when you meet that person, and you go like, Oh, yeah, they are ready, you know, it's a little bit of that. So, um, so for the 2500 people, we pick eight, Jesus.

Alex Ferrari 27:56
That's, that's almost as bad as Sunday. No, Sunday's is much worse. That's like 30.

Rebecca Windsor 28:00
Yeah, it's a little similar. Yeah. And then, and then the program. And I say like, you need to be in LA for this. We are actually back in person this year, which is really great. We're using the same protocols that the studio is doing for writers rooms, everyone is vaccinated, masked and tested and stuff like that. But so it's very exciting to be in person, but you need to be in LA, we meet one night a week, so that people can have their day jobs, if they're writers, assistants or whatnot. We need from October through March. And a lot of the workshop is focused on everything else that you need to know to be successful beyond the writing, maybe we'll work on their writing. But again, it's so competitive. So if you've gotten in we acknowledge you're talented writer. But there are so many other factors that you know, things you need to learn that are like the soft skills of being a writer.

Alex Ferrari 28:48
So what are a couple? What are a couple of those soft skills?

Rebecca Windsor 28:51
Yeah, so we bring in, you know, showrunners, and executives, we do everything from a class, it's just an overview, like a macro level overview of how the business works. And then we do a lot of other classes. So like, we will do a class on interviewing skills, you know, how do you prepare for a general meeting with an executive versus you're meeting a showrunner to get a job on your show? We do a class on going to set you know, oftentimes the writer of the episode will be sent to set to produce the episode and they act as the proxy for the showrunner. So, your first time staff writer and you go to set you know, and how do you how do you interact with the episodes director if they're maybe not getting the things that you know your showrunner wants? What do you do when the actors don't want to say the lines? And sometimes, you know, you can call your showrunner you know, sometimes they're not available so really trying to see you know, what's expected in that situation? We do an improv class to get writers to think on their feet and not censor themselves. So often in a writers room with with you know, younger writers or newer writers. There's so much pressure put on themselves to pitch something perfect that's going to save the episode and it may not land and then you just let it sit there beating yourself up going like idiot I shouldn't have said you know, then you get in your head, and then you don't keep pitching. So we want to take that pressure off, know that no one's judging you, they're judging their own bad pitches that didn't land and just keep going. Um, we do, we do like a group writing exercise, because oftentimes, a lot of shows, especially when they're under the gun and behind schedule will kind of Frankenstein a script together, they'll just say you two writers are doing x one, u two writers are doing act two, and so on and so forth. And then you have to put it all together and make it cohesive. So we do a lot of those kinds of exercises. We talk about difficult rooms, you know, we have sort of a cone of silence class where we hear from some people about some of the challenges they faced in in challenging rooms, and how do you manage? How do you get through it? How do you find ally ship? When is it time to you know, leave? Do you speak up, do you not? So those are those kinds of classes. And then we also do a simulated writers room, which is where we get into like actual writing work. And everyone is assigned a spec of a show to write, and then they have to hit the deadlines that are expected in a real world circumstance. So they come in and they pitch their story area for their episode, okay, in a story, this is happening in the D and the C. And they have to, you know, write that and then the next week, they turn in their vicita. The next week, they turn in their outline, they write their script over Christmas break, and then they have one week to revise. So we're looking to see if those writers can write strong material quickly under pressure. But also, we have everyone in the class read each other's material, before they come into class, so that we can act like a writers room, because it's one thing to say, you know, Do this, don't do that. And it's another to put it into practice, and see if someone is talking too much, and not giving anyone else any space, or someone had a good idea, and then got really long winded and she was stopped talking three minutes ago, or I can tell someone has something to say, but they don't want to say it until it's perfectly articulated. We've probably moved on. So you know, it's just learning how to how to give feedback in a collaborative, collaborative, positive way and take feedback in a non defensive way and then be able to incorporate it into your material.

Alex Ferrari 32:12
So then, how does so that's that's the that's the writers workshop, which all sounds fantastic. If you want to be a television writer. Yeah. I mean, if you can get a lot of successes, yeah, if you could be one of the eight. I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty awesome. Now the directing said, How's that work.

Rebecca Windsor 32:27
Um, so it's similar in philosophy of taking, you know, directors who have not directed episodic before, so they come from indie film, or commercials or music videos, or whatnot. Um, it's different in a few important ways. I think the biggest distinction and the reason for the distinction is that breaking into episodic directing is maybe the hardest thing to do in the industry, even if you've made features, because compare it you know, if you're a writer, and you've got your first job as a staff writer, you are one of many writers on a staff and you're low man on the totem pole. So you're not expected to do the heavy lifting and save the episode, you're just there to pitch ideas and keep the conversation going. But as the director of the episode, you are the captain of the ship. So there is reluctance from a lot of showrunners to give their $5 million episode over to someone who hasn't done TV before. So. So that's where we step in, is to kind of mitigate that risk, if you will, so. So it's also application based and the application will be open. I think it's January 7 to February 6, coming up to apply, you just need to upload up to three pieces of material, and then you know, personal statement and whatnot. And the other difference is in the selection process. So we will review everyone's material, decide we're really excited about meet the finalists. But at the same time, we also start talking to our shows and identifying which shows are open to a first time director, we have several that are really supportive. They've had success with previous directors of the program. So they're likely to say yes, and then we also have many shows that are not supportive, because, you know, for one reason or another, I mean, we do a lot of big like superhero shows and genre things with action and stunts and green screen that not every emerging director has in their portfolio. But anyways, once we've identified the shows that will support it, we would then match make and send each showrunner three directors material and have them watch the material have the showrunner meet them. And if there's one out of that group that they want to support, they let us know and that gets them into the workshop. But by doing so, the showrunner is also guaranteeing them an episode on the upcoming season. And the reason we do that it means that obviously not as many people get in because we've sent them three directors, they're only picking one. But it's really important to us to not just be a shadowing program. There are several directing talent, you know, pipeline programs around and they all have value but some of them only offer shadowing, which is a great learning experience, but really really wanted our workshop to lead to work and be a path right? And so less people get in, but those that get in No, they have a job.

Alex Ferrari 35:08
So how many so how many submissions do you get? How many actual directors get work?

Rebecca Windsor 35:13
Um, it's so we get less submissions than the writers workshop because as you imagine, not It costs money to direct things. So not 2500 People may not have lots of materials. So I would say it's usually around like the 500. Mark, depending on the year, and in terms of how many people get in, it changes year to year, because it depends on how many people we get episodes for. I would say the average is between six and 10. But again, it's it it changes year to year again, like COVID, like threw us into a tizzy. We didn't do it last year, it was you know, so it'll be interesting to see what happens in the coming year. And then the workshop itself is a nine week masterclass that we do, like end of May the beginning or end of May the end of June. It's taught by two directors, Bethany Rooney, Mary Lee Belli who have over 300 episodes between them. And they've written a book on episodic directing, which is on our website, what's the name of the book? It's called directors tell the story.

Alex Ferrari 36:14
Gotta get them on the show. Or get them on the show

Rebecca Windsor 36:17
If you should, it's a really great book. Listen, I didn't go to film school. So I don't know, you know, I don't know, lenses. I don't know any of that stuff. And so it's a very approachable book. It's not a dry technical book. There's a lot of anecdotes. And what the book does is take you from prep through posts, like what is the process of episodic directing. So we use that book as our curriculum. And again, the class is not directing one on one because everyone that's gotten in, we've watched the material, we know they're talented, it's really about how's the medium of TV different? And what do you need to know to be successful?

Alex Ferrari 36:47
And you have to be and you have to be in LA for this as well.

Rebecca Windsor 36:50
And you what you have to be in LA for this year? Yeah. But it's a shorter span of time. So we have had people who just like get an Airbnb for a month or two, you know. And so part of the clock, like the first few classes are lecture basic. And using the book, I'm just kind of talking about the nuts and bolts, you show up on day one of crap, what to expect, you go into a concept meeting, who's running it? What do you expected to know? What do you need to start thinking about the questions that are going to be asked of you, when you go into tech Scout, these are the people who are going with you in the tone meeting, you know, with the showrunner, you know, that's your last opportunity to have certain conversation. So kind of breaking down that whole process, we'll also have a script that we're working off of for the duration, it's usually, you know, some TV show that one of them is directed in the past. So everyone will have homework of blocking and shortlisting and doing all the creative prep you'd normally do with, you know, character, intentions and obstacles and themes and motifs. And then we spent the last several classes, putting scenes from that script on their feet. So we work on one of our sound stages and bring actors in for the day. And then every director gets a chunk of time to work the scene and get it to where they want it, you know, in blocking and in performance, and then then they will get feedback from Bethany Mary Lou, on on a technical level, you know, how was your blocking to feel organic? Do people get like boxed into a corner was really weird? Is it you know, it was more movement? And then how was your coverage? Did you? Did you get all the shots you needed to? Did you miss anything? Did you cross the line? Is there possibly a more efficient way to get what you want? By combining these two shots? It's gonna save you time in your day. And then they also get feedback on it on a creative level, how are you collaborating with your actors? You know, the trick in TV is that episodic directors are freelance, you're a guest director. And so you kind of go from show to show so you go to a show that may have, they may have been working together for years. So it's not your cast. It's not your crew, they know their roles better than you. So how do you find the balance between being the captain of the ship and the leader and knowing what you want making your days having a plan, having a vision, but at the same time, being flexible? You know, and in the case of the actors, you may have, you know, figured out the blocking in such a way that's going to fit your shortlist. But if your actors instincts, tell them to do something different, that still works for the scene. Um, but means you have to change your shot list, are you able to be flexible on the fly, you know, you don't want to move them around like chess pieces, and have them feel like you're just as a dictator. So we work on all of those kinds of things. And then at the end of the workshop, we would arrange a time for those directors to go shadow on the show. They're going to be directing, so they get to know passing through ahead of time, and then a director episode and then they're off to the races.

Alex Ferrari 39:37
That's that sounds again, amazing. If you're a director out there listening I would definitely suggest you submit to both of these programs. Now you obviously have over the years have read a few scripts from young writers what is the biggest mistake you see young writers make?

Rebecca Windsor 39:55
Oh my god. Okay, so really like simple one is Proof Reading, you know,

Alex Ferrari 40:01

Rebecca Windsor 40:02
Those are the worst. It's I mean, it's like, if you're bad if you have tunnel vision, like just give it to someone give it to a friend like just, you know, it's it just shows sort of, like lack of, you know, professionalism and effort, lack of proper Thank you professionalism. But I think, you know, sort of creatively, I think, um, I think I see a lot of us, but on the one hour side, you know, with, say, like genre shows, or any sort of like role building show two things. One is that you want to set up your world really quickly and really cleanly. So I know the rules, and I understand it, and then it's just the window dressing, and then you get into your characters, because it doesn't matter if we're talking Game of Thrones, or we're talking, you know, any other sort of big show. We're not watching it for like dragons, right? Maybe some people are, but we're watching it for character. Emotions, the relationships, right? And so a lot of times you're either the world is not set up, clearly enough. And I'm going wait, I don't understand. Like, there's two universes and you know, like that kind of a thing. I don't want to have to ask questions, or all it is, is world building. And all it is is like, set pieces and action, genre,

Alex Ferrari 41:16
There's the plot or character, right. There's the plot character. Right, right, right. Yeah. Cuz I mean, look, we've all seen dragons. We don't show up, you know,

Rebecca Windsor 41:24
Weve all seen vampire shows. But like, the reason they keep making them is if you have a specific point of view, and a different way of doing a vampire show that's really captivating. It can be successful, or not like he cares.

Alex Ferrari 41:35
Yeah, we've all seen we've seen vampires. And we've seen vampires done very, very well. So we don't Yeah, it's not just about the, it's not the what I guess when the vampires really start kicking back up. I mean, 90s 80s

Rebecca Windsor 41:49
Well, there was Interview with the Vampire, which was, I think, like, 99.

Alex Ferrari 41:52
Yeah, and Lost Boys in near dark, and that kind of stuff back in the 80s. But you know, it was it was it was kind of like with specifically with something like vampires. It was novel. Back then. Yeah. And like, oh, a vampire script. Now it's like a really another word. You've got to you've got to really take it to another place. Now, the same question goes for directors, have you seen a lot of directors samples and things like that? Yeah. Is there something that you see constantly from young directors who submit that you're like, they just don't understand this part, or they did this wrong, you know, things like that. Or even just even even after the even after they get into the program, even maybe they're extremely talented as directors, but they don't know how to work this crew. They don't know how to work the set. They don't know how to work the politics of it all.

Rebecca Windsor 42:36
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, I think I have a three fold answer. Okay, what is again, a little similar, like, it's a little similar to the writer things, you know, that style over substance, you know, like something that's like, looks really cool, and it's got visuals and all that stuff, but has no soul to it. Again, I still, I want it to look good. But, but I again, I'm watching it for the characters. Um, I think in terms of applying, and this is not a mistake that directors are make, but it's, it's more just a challenge by virtue of what you know, what we do at Warner Brothers, that there are sometimes really talented filmmakers whose films just feel too tiny, you know, to indie, and I can see the value in but not every producer, can, you know, they can be a little myopic if it's just like, you know, like quiet little dysfunctional family drama set in like 1920s, Kansas in one house, and whatever. And it's like, great performance, but there's no scope to it. I think, again, it's not a mistake, it's just sort of knowing, okay, if you're playing to Warner Brothers, and look at the shows that we're doing, right off, there's often going you know, and it's not just that you need to have like action sequences in your material. But I think thinking about some, you know, cinematic quality, visual style, all of that can go a long way.

Alex Ferrari 43:56
But you got to play to your audience, like, who is my customer here, when I'm submitting stuff, if Warner Brothers is my customer, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give him the little indie shot in one room. Unless it's extreme. I mean, it has to be at a level that is so good that you just like, Holy Jesus. But if you could show off a little bit of scope, like, we could put them on the flash, we could put them on on one of those shows

Rebecca Windsor 44:19
That's why we asked her, that's what he asked for three samples. So if you have one sample that is super tiny, but like, your performances are just like, amazing. And then you have another sample that shows you know, maybe you're a commercial directory, the brand new continent, it's really like slick and stuff like that. That's great. So we know that you can do that and you can do that. Um, and then I guess the third piece of advice, which I think is more for, you know, writer directors, in particular, who you know, come from film and are used to you know, that autour driven. I am the sole creative voice on this show. That doesn't work well in TV because in TV, it's a writer's medium. The showrunner is king. So while yes, you are, like I said the capital into the ship of this episode, you're servicing another master. And so I think, you know, when I hear about, you know, a particular director on their first episode, or maybe not their first episode, but he just like, did not work well with the crew and was sort of, you know, was not collaborative. It's, that's something that I always tell people, it's like, if you're going to get into this, know that, it you are not that guess you bring ideas, but ultimately, it's not your decision. But having said that, I think there are a lot of benefits to indie directors, working in television sustainability, of course, and like making a living like you go, like, if you get like three to five episodes in a year, that takes up like, three to five months, and then you've made enough money to live and you can go spend the other part of your year working on your passion projects. But I think equally important, is that what you got to do as an episodic director is go from show to show and not a, that means you're directing a lot, you know, a lot of feature directors get to direct what once every couple of years, if they're lucky, you know, for film, or you get to you get it, you're honing your craft, and you get to continue doing it. And you get to work in different genres, with different casting crew with different toys, you know, so everything you're doing on episodic, on the episodic side, is going to make you better director on your own project.

Alex Ferrari 46:18
Now, you also, you travel to a bunch of different festivals and, you know, markets and things like that. And I have to believe that you have been because I've been approached this way. So I can only imagine what you once they find out who you are. They're like, Oh my god, do they? Can you talk for everyone listening, how not to approach someone in the business? If you're just like that, with that desperation? That I call it a kind of a cologne that we can smell kind of like Jakar in the 80s. Yeah. It's just smell it. And it's so off putting, and it's so unprofessional and the way you do it, it's like I just met you, Hey, can you make my dreams come true? I just met you. You don't know me? What do I need to do for you to make my dreams come true? And that's generally not the way do you purchase so can you explain maybe a horror story that you have? And how you should approach someone like yourself At least?

Rebecca Windsor 47:14
Yeah, well, actually, there was like one of the most awkward interactions I've ever experience happened in Austin Film Festival, although this wasn't exactly that, but we were at a different mixer. And he was, I was standing with two of my friends. One's a writer, one's an executive. And we were we were talking about a mutual friend. And this girl just kind of came into our circle. I was like, Uh huh. Uh, huh. Like laughing along with us? Like, she was, like, part of the conversation. She's like, wait, wait, who are we talking about now? And it was like, and she didn't introduce herself. And she just sort of like, inserted herself in a very, very awkward way. And didn't have an ask of us, which I will, you know, like I was happy about, but we were just sort of like, we didn't know what energy who and she was like, oh, yeah, I thought you were talking about this movie, though. We're like, no, no, we're just talking about a friend of ours. Okay. Okay. But like, didn't, didn't pick up on like, it's like reading the room. Right. Um, so that was very weird. But yeah, like, there are people who just, I mean, I think in general, most people that I have experienced, or at least when I meet them at a festival, are respectful, you know, especially like, if I'm, like, if I'm leaving a panel on the table, I don't want to take too much of your time. I just had like, a quick question. Happy to do that. Sure. Of course. Um, so I think it's really just a we're like at the Driscoll bar, which is like the hotel that everyone hangs out with, at the end of AWS, it's like from 4pm Till, you know, the wee hours. Everyone's just sort of, like hanging out, which is great. And, again, happy to have those conversations, but it's like, recognizing, if, if you see someone that you know, you want to talk to, and they are like, in a deep conversation with someone, maybe not at that time, like find, find your moment, right. And then again, if we're sort of in a more social relaxed atmosphere, just be mindful that we also just, like, we're happy to have conversations, but we also want to, like take a break from, you know, from time to time. So I think it's just, you know, being really respectful of people's time. I mean, most people I know, including myself, and my friends are happy to give advice and ask, you know, but, you know, and then there are times where someone will say like, because I don't work in development. So someone will say like, Oh, can I send you my pilot to see if Warner Brothers wants to make it and I'm like, I don't I don't do that, you know, I'm, oh, what? Can you send it to someone? And again, like, then that requires like me reading it and putting my my reputation on the line. And, you know, and there have been times that I will send a person or a piece of material but I think having that ask him in that way, like puts me in a weird position.

Alex Ferrari 49:53
Right and also that asked him somebody you don't know. Like, if you've built a relationship with them, you might know the work or you Like, all that kind of stuff, it would be a little bit different than, than someone just walking up to him like, Hey, here's my script. Can you go hand it to Samuel L. Jackson? Like, like, it's, and that's where a lot of people, you know, hopefully people not listening to the show. Everyone listening to the show would not know not to do this, but, but a lot of times I've seen Look, people send me material. Like, can you help me produce my movie? I'm like, No. Do you not know who I am? i That's not me. It's not what I do at events or festivals. Some people are like, Hey, can you I know that you interviewed? You know, Edgar, right? Can you get this script to I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm like, Dude, no, like, even if I could call Edgar up on the phone, which I can't, I wouldn't do that. Because it's the exact same thing you'd like, I've got to read it. I've got to, like it makes Come on.

Rebecca Windsor 50:52
Yeah. And you know, listen, I have a lot of sympathy for, of course, you know, for aspiring writers and directors, and especially when they are not in New York and LA, because I think it doesn't. I mean, even in New York and LA, it can feel insurmountable. But you generally make out some connections here or there. But you know, again, when you go to festivals, you get people from all over the country and world who just are like, how do I do this? I don't know how to figure it out. So I do have a lot of sympathy and want to be helpful. But I think, you know, to your point, it's, it's yes, like, if you are trying to break in as a writer or director, like, do your research and figure out strategies and not just like, cast a wide net to every person that you have ever come into contact with?

Alex Ferrari 51:33
Yeah, that's the shotgun approach doesn't really work. You got to be more, you know, you got to be more more surgical. With Yes. And do and do your research. Do your homework. Don't pitch somebody who does comedy, a horror script, like that's, this is what a one, but it's a lot of people that like, so desperate, they're like, Well, you're in the business. I want to get into the business. i You're my opening. You're my way in. Yeah, it's just weird. But I wanted to put that out there for people listening, because I think it's a service that we need for young people coming up. Because look, I look, I don't know about you. But when you were starting, I was starting out. I had I bought, I literally bought cases of that desperation. Jakar and I doused myself with it. And anytime I would go to an industry party, you could literally just smell the desperation on me. So I know what it feels like to be on the other side of that. And that's why I'm so like, that's why I put 21 of the reasons I did the show to educate people about Yeah, don't don't do that. It doesn't work.

Rebecca Windsor 52:34
You're doing God's work.

Alex Ferrari 52:35
I'm Trump doing the best I can. Now where can people go to submit to both the television Writers Workshop and the directors workshop.

Rebecca Windsor 52:44
So, um, we have a website with all like, so much of what I talked about, and more. And, you know, as I mentioned, for the writers workshop, we have, you have to write a spec to get in, we have a list of accepted shows, because it's not every single show on air, because it'd be impossible, but it's a really comprehensive list and we update it, we'll update it by the first week of January based on what's been cancelled and what we need to add. So that's on there. On the directors workshop side, we also have a list for for shorts filmmaker. So like if you if you've made a feature, no problem. But if you've made a short we have sort of like the top, you know, 100 short, like Academy, qualifying shorts, festivals, we just want to make sure people are not submitting, you know, films that they made on their phone. Because they're unless they're Shaun Baker, but you know, so so that is on our website, which of course it to

Alex Ferrari 53:39
Go ahead, I'm gonna put it in the show notes anyway, but

Rebecca Windsor 53:41
It's a it's TelevisionWorkshop.Warnerbros.com.

Alex Ferrari 53:46
Fair enough.

Rebecca Windsor 53:47
And also, there's like a Contact Us button. So if you just have like a general question that you know that I have an answer, you know, it goes, you know, someone will say that.

Alex Ferrari 53:58
And I and I'm going to ask you a few questions that I asked all of my guests. Okay, what advice would you give a filmmaker or screenwriter trying to break into the business today?

Rebecca Windsor 54:08
I think if it is the only thing that you want to do, and I say this again is like recovering, like, currently after recovering, recovering, struggling. So you know, if there's anything, we're just like, I don't need to be like a parent. Like, if there's anything else you want to do do it. But if you know that this is your goal, you have to find a way to do it. So if you're a writer, it's even easier, like you just keep writing you have to you know, and if you you know if you can find like a writer's group, you know, just a couple of friends or colleagues that can keep you discipline. So, you know, you know, I know writers need deadlines. So it's, you know, you're meeting once a month and you have to have a new draft and you have to have a revision, you have to have a pitch, you know, you just have to keep doing it. Even if you have a script that has been very successful and gotten you lots of meetings. That's only going to work for a couple of years and you know, years later, people are gonna want new material for you. So I think you have to keep writing and then directing Yes, you still have to keep directing, it's so much harder. I know, because it costs money, it costs a lot of money to direct stuff. But if that's what you want to do, you have to find ways to do it. And whether it's through, you know, branded content, or whether it's, you know, commercials or, you know, I don't even know how you know how else you find ways to direct but again, if that's your goal, you have to keep working at it. It's the only way to again, hone your skills. And people are, again, going to want to see new material, like I don't want someone applying to the directors workshop with something they made 10 years ago. You know, I want to see that you aid not have something that's super dated, but also have the drive this is this is what this is your passion. And this is the only thing you want to do in your life, you found a way to make it work.

Alex Ferrari 55:52
Fair enough. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film industry or in life?

Rebecca Windsor 56:00
Um, yeah, don't compare yourself to other people's paths? Yes. And I still struggle with that from time to time, you know, even you know, as I, you know, made the switch from acting to, you know, go into executive path. My path was very zigzaggy. You know, I had friends that I started out at my first agency job with who got a job working for, you know, X producer, or whatever. And that person became their mentor, and they just, like, champion them, and they skyrocketed. And now they're like, running, you know, departments and stuff like that. And for me, I never had that, you know, I, like I said, I ended up in Mandeville films, even though I knew I wanted to work in TV, but I was like, No, I'm gonna work at this feature company and worked with the President and then worked at it at a tea pot, and we just didn't get anything made and then went to Sundance, which like, none of it sort of makes sense, if you will. And if like one other job had come along, or I didn't accept something with it, maybe my path would have been quicker, you know, because some, you know, several of my friends had much faster rises than me. And it was always so frustrating. Like, why is it taking me so long? To get ahead? You know, why can't I work for the boss who's going to promote me? But having said that, when I got this job at Warner Brothers, it, it was the culmination and it was like, all of my different experiences. Having worked at Sundance, running a talent pipeline program, having worked in TV before, made me the perfect person for that job, and made the job perfect for me. So Hindsight is 2020. You know, and don't compare yourself to other people. And especially if you're a writer, director, it's even you know, there is no one right way to go about doing it. So just trust that you're, you know, on the right path and keep working and it'll happen.

Alex Ferrari 57:50
Know what, three pilots that every television writer should read.

Rebecca Windsor 57:58
Oh, God.

Alex Ferrari 58:00
I know there's different genres but just generally.

Rebecca Windsor 58:05
I mean, the Friday Night Lights pilot, I think was just so perfect. Um, I mean, I hate to say like breaking down a madman. That's what everybody says. But it's but it's but it's true. They're there. They're great pilots.

Alex Ferrari 58:20
The Wire. Sopranos.

Rebecca Windsor 58:23
Yeah. Dexter was a great pilot.

Alex Ferrari 58:28
Lost was a good pilot too

Rebecca Windsor 58:29
Lost was a good pilot. I'm trying to think if there's anything more recently. Um, I think the great is a great pilot. Oh, no, there's so many.

Alex Ferrari 58:49
Okay, that was good. We listed a bunch of them off. And lastly, three of your favorite films of all time.

Rebecca Windsor 58:56
Oh my god. It's like choosing among my children. Um, let's see. Princess Bride. Genius. Heather's

Alex Ferrari 59:08
Oh, so good. Heather's that's our generation though. That is so our generation.

Rebecca Windsor 59:15
Oh, man, what's the third? Ah Oh, my God.

Alex Ferrari 59:27
I mean, it's not gonna be on your gravestone, so you could just kind of

Rebecca Windsor 59:31
No, I know, I know. I'm like, do I go with like one of those movies you could just like, watch over and over and over. Or something that's like important.

Alex Ferrari 59:39
Just what No, yeah, cuz yeah. Like, yeah, Citizen Kane and seven, seven.

Rebecca Windsor 59:45
Schindler's List, right. One of the best movies of all time that I never want to see again.

Alex Ferrari 59:53
That's so true. There's some movies that you watch. Once you're like, I'm good. It was fantastic. I never want to go down that road again.

Rebecca Windsor 1:00:00
I think the one like that's that fits that bill the most is Requiem for a Dream. Oh, that movie and I was like, I don't know what I just thought it was brilliant and I can't get those images out of my head ever. But, uh,

Alex Ferrari 1:00:15
I remember pi. When I saw when I saw pi two. I was like, I don't need I loved it. I don't need sci pi again. Like, it's just like, yeah, it's there's just a thin density there but

Rebecca Windsor 1:00:26
Yeah, but I'm feeling you I'm feeling you know ah Clue

Alex Ferrari 1:00:42
I love Oh my god clue. Please, everyone listen to go watch clue. The the Great. Tim Curry

Rebecca Windsor 1:00:51
And not on call.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:52
Oh my god, Madeline Kahn. And I wish a studio would have the cornice to do what they did with clue and release three different river endings in the theater at the same time. So people were like, well, this is how the movie had a no it didn't it ended this way. And then we'll go back. Oh my God, it was such a brilliant marketing move. Why hasn't anyone done that again?

Rebecca Windsor 1:01:18
I don't know. Sorry. Can I amend it? i Can I say one more which again? That I think is like one of again, I don't they don't make movies like this anymore. Goonies. Oh, it's just a perfect adventure film with children that you know what I mean? Like, there hasn't been a movie. Like, obviously, we have kids the same age. And it's like, I wish that there was a movie like that for them. I just like, I don't think that there is like something smart and fun and not like,

Alex Ferrari 1:01:49
Yeah, it's tough. It's tough to find stuff like that anymore. I mean, and now we were sound like the two old farts in the room. Yeah, back when we were kids went back when we were kids.

Rebecca Windsor 1:01:59
Recently. I really liked the favorite.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:02
Yeah, that's good. That's good. But Rebecca, thank you so much for being on the show. I truly appreciate you. You the work that you're doing God's work. You're bringing new artists into the world and hopefully giving them ways to make a living in this insanity that we call the film industry. So I do appreciate everything you do. And thank you again for being on the show.

Rebecca Windsor 1:02:24
Thank you so much for having me



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