IFH 823: The Secret to Getting Noticed as a Screenwriter with James Moorer

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:54
On this week's episode of the podcast, I have a screenwriter and actor study journalism at The Ohio State University, and he studied a prominent screenwriting gurus Robert McKee and Hal Crowsman at screenwriting U in 2014 he was named one of screenwriting U's most recognized screenwriters and most recommended as well. Two of his pilots, Michael sermon and size seven red were both optioned by a Toronto based production company, and in 2017 he was signed by purple skull management. Ladies and gentlemen, this is James Moore. I know what. I know you went to Ohio State, and it's usually

James Moorer 2:33
Later Ohio State University.

Speaker 1 2:34
Yep. Yeah, you guys, you could tell that James is an alum, because any anytime you say Ohio State. It's always corrected as the Ohio State. So was this right around the time, though, that you got bit by the by the writing bug, so to speak, and I started, sort of, you know, taking shape from there.

James Moorer 2:55
Swear to God, it actually happened way earlier than that, like back in elementary school, I wrote a play that we that we put on for the entire school when I was in the fifth grade, and that was the first time I was just like, huh, this writing seems kind of cool. And initially I just wanted to be an author, but somewhere in the like early 90s, I got hooked up with with a with a young man who was working, he was a trainer working with fitness competitor. And I used to write music for fitness competitors and bodybuilders. And we just got to talking about movies and TV and comic books and everything and and after about three hours, yes, he said, Hey, you ever thought about shooting a movie? I'm like, shooting a movie. I'm like, what does that look like, you know? And the next thing I knew, I was I was hitting my first script. Had no idea what I was doing. And a couple of weeks later, we shot, we shot a short, and it was like, Yeah, that's it. Okay, this is what I want to do.

Speaker 1 4:02
So when you were penning this script for this short film, James, did you, did you sort of grab all the scripts to see how the format should be, or were you just, were just sort of creating your own thing.

James Moorer 4:13
You know what? I was just kind of going off the cuff of of of what I a few things that I'd seen, but I'd actually had, at that point, had not even read a professionally written script, so it was just like, I mean, I was just straight winging it completely. But we got we got it, you know, we got to put together. We got a shot at, you know, it wasn't the greatest thing in the world, but, you know, I'm proud that we actually managed to get it from from conception to, it's actually something to put down on top.

Speaker 1 4:35
So, whatever happened to the short film? Did you take it around and show what's it like? The very like film festivals and such,

James Moorer 4:45
You know, like much like most short films at that time, absolutely not. It was horrible. It was, I have to admit, it's the best thing that I got out of it. Was realizing what I didn't know. And I think by the time that, you know, we finally had a finished cut, and I'm looking back and I'm going, that was okay, that was okay, that was absolutely awful. But I needed to know what it took to actually become a screenwriter. And I think, like, a year later, is the first time that I actually picked up a book, which was Robert McKee story. And then, like, a year following that actually flew out to LA for the story seminar.

Speaker 1 5:31
So at that point in time, so you, again, you were still living in Cleveland, so the Columbus, sorry, the Cleveland area. And then you, sort of, you took this out to LA, and you took a plane out to LA to study under McKee. So at that point in time, was like, were you always hearing things like, McKee is like, the guy to go to to learn screenwriting.

James Moorer 5:51
He was, he was, at the time, like the the main guy. He was the guys like, Look, if you're going to figure out if this is actually for you or not for you, then that's what you need to do. And it I have to say that at the time it lived up to its name, it was straight fire and brimstone. I don't know. I don't know if you've ever listened to him speak, but this man pulls absolutely no punches. I mean whatsoever. And I've taken and this is how, this is how bad it was. I taken the class twice. I took you the seminar twice, so I went back for additional punishment. But, I mean, but there was so, there was so much stuff that I didn't even have a clue about, that he opened my eyes to. Plus, I had an opportunity to actually meet other screenwriters who were actually working at the time, and other people who were looking to become screenwriters. And it was, it was just an amazing experience.

Speaker 1 6:48
You know, actually, last year, in April, April, 2016 I actually went to the McKee seminar in New York City. Didn't go out to LA unfortunately, but no, I went to New York City, which is, you know, I'm in Philadelphia, it's about what two hours give or take. And I went up there, I actually won the McKee, this writing contest, open writing contest thing he had. And I actually won. And first place was I got to go up to take his his story seminar for free up in New York. So, and I went up there, and it was actually great, because I actually quit a pretty crappy job the day before. It was my last day, put in my two weeks. It was April the 19th, and then on April the 20th, I was traveling up to New York to go to go to this McKee seminar. And it was like, it made it like, 10 times better, because I was like, Man, I don't got this crappy job anymore. I got the, you know, now I'm talking now I'm hanging around with other screenwriters. It was fantastic. And you're right, you know, he really doesn't pull any punches. And he just, yeah, he just tells you, You know what, exactly you know is going on. And the reason I always bring it up, too, is because, you know, there is, I mean, McKee. Obviously, he still goes around, he still does these seminars, but as you and I both know, James, there's a lot of other options out there now for screenwriters to learn from. Correct, you know, there's, there's so many things that I mean, and that's one of the questions I want to ask you, too, is, you know, there's so many different options out there. If you and I typed in screenwriting classes, or even online screenwriting classes into Google. I mean, we're gonna get 1000s of hits, you know. We're gonna get 1000s of so, you know. So what are the things that you James recommend, since you know you're actually out there doing it, you have a ton of, like, credentials, you have a ton of awards, you know. So what are some of the things that you would recommend that people look for if they were interested in taking, like, an on writing, an online screenwriting class.

James Moorer 8:44
So the biggest thing for me, I will look for because I've taken an, I mean, just like a plethora of classes, the majority of them actually didn't live up to the hype. And that's that's pretty sad to say, because it's like, the problem, the problem with most screenwriting classes not, I mean, and there's a ton of good ones out there, let me say that there's a ton of good ones out there, but, but what most of them don't teach you is how to be a professional screenwriter. And by and by by that, I mean this, there's more to there's more to this than just the creative side. So, yeah, absolutely. You know, everything that you can do to learn how to be better when you're sitting alone. You know, first thing in the morning in your underwear, in front of your computer, cold cup of coffee in your hand, trying to trying to beat out a script. You know, everything that that you can get on that site, get it and get it well. But there's a whole, a completely other side to this that has to do with the business of being a screenwriter, and what it takes to not only have great work, but But what it takes to work with other great people who are going to help you move your career to the next level. And that was a crucial element that I found that was missing early on in a lot of the other screenwriting courses that I took, and it wasn't until within the last I want to say maybe 4, years ago now that I finally, you know, figured out exactly, you know, what I needed, who I was going to get it from, and and they have a track record of being able to to get people to the next level. So that's the thing that I would most look for. Does, does the screenwriting course that you're looking to take move the needle on their careers? So if I took, if I took a class, and a year later, after taking this class, I'm absolutely no further in my my screenwriting career than when I was a year ago, then it was a worse. It was a waste of time. It was an absolute waste of time. But even even if it moves you to the point where you can get, like, the interest of an agent or a manager, or get a or get a production company or, you know, or studio to read, just to read something, even if they pass on it, you've moved the needle on your career, and that's worth its weight and goal.

Speaker 1 11:11
Yeah, very true. And, you know, getting people to actually, you know, read your material and sit down and talk to, you know, so is so critical. It's sort of like the next sort of level and screenwriting, because, you know, you have to actually write a screenplay first. You screenplay first, you know. And so that's why, you know, I wanted to talk about, you know, we talked about my seminars here a lot on the podcast, because different, you know, writers and directors I've had on have tape, maybe, you know, they haven't really gone to a seminar, but they've read, maybe save the cat, or mature stories McKee, or story about McKee. And, you know, other times, I mean, I think you and I are very similar, James, in that we've taken a ton of courses, right, a ton of books, and you have to sort of read a ton of books and take a ton of courses before you realize you don't need a ton of books and a ton, of course, absolutely, because, yeah, you know what? I mean, it's one of those things where you're like, Man, I, you know, this is this kind of like a hunch I had when I first started this whole career, you know, this whole thing, you know, that I could do it this way. And, you know, then you, then you get told, No, no, you can't do it that way. You got to follow this. And then by the end, you're like, you know, it's, it's, there is really no form. There is no really right or wrong way to tell a story, per se. Because you know, when you when you see these people talk about these rules of screenwriting and rules of story, they they're they're not, they're really not telling you, like, a sort that's what the one thing I do like about McKees story is he talks about principles of story, right? And he talks about, you know, this has happened and this happens, but he doesn't tell you, like, oh, well, has to happen in this order, you know, stuff like that, right? And I think that, and I think that's what a lot of problems, that problem is what I have with a lot of these screenwriting gurus, so to speak, that I see always pitching their classes online. And I'm just thinking to myself, well, have they ever actually written a screenplay?

James Moorer 12:56
And, you know, and you know, it's, it's a really, you're asking, you're asking, you're absolutely on the right track with that, because it's a really fine line of of, it's like, Hey, have you been out there? Have you done this? What if you know you know it? Because a lot of times you just like me, you know, initially, you just ran out there and saw who was offering what. And it's like, okay, that sounds good. I'll take it. Didn't, didn't bother to spend a moment. It's like, let me research this person. Let me look on IMDb to see what their credits are. And let me, you know, check out what you know, what the you know, what there's other people in the industry say about them, what other writers are even saying about them. You know, didn't do any of that. So had I done that early on, that would have saved me so much money. I mean, I could have, I could I could have a nice vacation. I could have paid for it twice with the amount of money that I've spent over the years.

Speaker 1 13:51
You know, it's funny, too, James, I look to my left and there's a, I know you can't see it because it's a podcast, but I have a, just a a bookcase from top to bottom of books next to me. And this is just screenwriting and filmmaking, and it is, it is packed to the brim. It is overflowing. At any second, it looks like it's gonna collapse on top of me and just bury me. And it just like, and I'm sitting here going, how many times have I opened even a percentage, maybe even 5% of these books, because half the time it's, it's sort of like it's, it's almost like a lot of these books are written by frustrated screenwriter, right, who go, You know what? It's a lot more, it's a lot more money, or maybe a lot more sort of of cache, so to speak. If I write a book about how to write a screenplay than actually writing that screen,

James Moorer 14:38
I will, I will be honest with you, and I have, I have two of those bookshelves that you have. I one year in LA and I've got one back at all. I've got two of them. But I can, I can honestly tell you, out of all of those books, there have only been three that I've read cover to cover. McKee, obviously, I read his book cover to cover. There's a book that Warner Brothers says i. Um, that's been written by two of the ladies who run their screenwriting workshop that I've read cover to cover, and the other, the only other book on screenwriting that I've read cover to cover is by Steven Pressfield, The War of Art. That's it. Those. Those are my, if you want to call them, my Bibles. Those are my three Bibles, in terms of, not only, not only just what it takes to to be a good screenwriter, but the discipline behind it, the the the taking care of yourself as a person, as well as the business side of and there's and there's so much, there's so much more on the business side of it, that I think a lot of people either just, you know, you just you know, you just don't hear about it. Or, you know, because when you hear all the stories about, oh, so and so, just sold a script for, for, you know, for six figures, some and, you know, and they're, they're just the complete unknown. It's like, no, that doesn't, that's not how, the way, it really works. You know, that person probably spent 10 years struggling, beating, beating, script after script hitting the pavement, being told no and rejected hundreds of times before that actually happened. So you know, it just does not happen overnight. And so many people, unfortunately, still hold on to that belief that, yeah, I didn't fly out the LA, it was my script that you know, and nobody knows me, and I'm going to make a million dollars. Yeah, that's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 16:26
The I don't know if you've ever seen overnight, the documentary about Troy Duffy, the director and writer of The Boondock Saints. And he just, it's a story about a guy who has given everything, James and just completely pisses it away? And I actually had a friend of mine who actually knew Troy years before he actually, you know, got it, was featured in this documentary, and then later on, made the actual Boondock Saints. And he said for years he was working at, I think it was in Boston. He was at, he was a bartender, but he had a ton of contacts, and he eventually, some friend of his became a junior agent at, I think, the Weinstein Company. And that's how he was getting his foot in the door for these years, was that he had all these friends, and then finally they they liked The Boondock Saints script. Well, that's how it all happened. But he said, you know, if you listen to Troy tell the story, one night he got drunk, he came home for a night of drinking, started writing this script, finished it in a week, and then the next week, they were pitching it to Harvey Weinstein, and then all of a sudden, you know, he's just an overnight success,

James Moorer 17:32
Wow. And I'm not saying that if it can happen, because, I mean, I was every now and then there's a but, but actually banking on that happening is just like, No, that is, that is, that is the fastest way to the bottom of a bottle of Jack or whatever. And, you know, and just like you know, I'm going back home to live with my parents in Cleveland. No, no, no, no, we can't have I would, I would, I would tell people this, it's, it's, and this, this was the hardest lesson for me to learn and and when I tell people this is like, you know, I I say it very passionately, because I was exactly that person before I figured it out. You have to, you have to understand that this is first, last and always a business. And like any business, people who are in it, who are on the other side where we're trying to get are about making money. So if you are able to present yourself as couple, as someone that is like, hey, I really would not mind spending the next two to three years working with this guy. He seems like a lot of fun and knowledgeable, not only about your craft, but have at least a baseline understanding of what the other side does. You can be successful because if you don't have that, doors slam in in 3.5 seconds every single time and and no matter what any any other trainer, guru or whatnot, tells you, if you don't have that, that basic information in brain ingrained into you, where it's where it has become a part of you, where you can kind of step outside of yourself, take some honest criticism of your work, and cannot look at it as someone's beating it down, but they're actually giving you the tools to help go make it better, so you can come back and be Stronger. If you do that, you can be extraordinary. But the problem is, 90% of screenwriters out there don't want to take that note.

Dave Bullis 19:31
Yeah, you know, James, that's very true. I and I've seen the two in screenwriting groups where, you know, people try to help each other out. And sometimes, you know, it's, it's a little bit of tough love. Other times it's more of, Okay, let's try it this way. You know, it's a little more of a positive feel to it. And some people just, they can't sort of hear anything, right? They're just so focused on this one idea or this one sort of brilliant stroke. It's almost as if, you know, it's almost like they're transfixed on this and it's and nobody can tell them anything. So even, even if they did get into a room with executives, you know, it would be, it would be almost pointless. I actually knew a screenwriter, James, I'll tell you a little funny story. I knew a screenwriting, a screenwriter who actually, one time told a producer, after he had written the script, the producer was looking at it, and the screenwriter told him, he goes, If you fuck up my story, he goes, I'm gonna come after you. Where the producer? The producer goes, Well, I'm certainly not going to work with you. And the guy was actually shocked. He goes, why not? He goes, he goes, the scripts brilliant. He goes, the script is very solid. He goes, but you said, you know, I just, I don't want to work with you that and and that screenwriter, James, I know you're going to be shocked, but he does not work in the business anymore. Oh, I'm so shocked. I know it's a shocker of of shockers, but he does not work in the business.

James Moorer 21:05
And here's the thing that every screenwriter, who's everybody who's trying to become a great screenwriter, needs to understand half of the work. Only half is when you're sitting there by yourself, creating screen, creating story, creating solid, great, incredible story that people will, that people will want to see, eventually buy and create. The other half is being a people person. And I can't tell you how many other screener screenwriters I've met over the years who are just like, Well, no, I don't network. I don't, I don't do any of that stuff. I don't, you know, I don't need to be around people. I'm like, what serious? And I'm like, and again, I laugh now, because at a certain particular point in time, early, early on in my career, I was kind of like one of those people and and it took, it took it took me sitting back and going, what am I doing wrong with my screenwriting career? Because I felt like this was back in maybe 2000 between 2009 and 2012 I felt like I was on a wheel, like on a hamster wheel was getting absolutely nowhere, that I was doing exactly the same things over and over again, expecting different results. So it was like I was watching the Titanic, expecting jack to make it, not hide me, and what, what did it for me, and I she, she will, she will kill me for this. But I credit and Kimbrough, who's a great friend, and under the screenwriter and author, who I'd met, hood, who I actually was, I was working with, with the production company, listening to pitches after one of the ink tip functions, and had had seen her, heard her pitch shoot. She had a great pitch. And fast forward a couple years later, and she's writing, she's got stuff going on, and I'm like, what was the difference that made it for you? And she told me about the one, the one screenwriting, course, that made all the difference for me, and that was screenwriting you, and that that really changed the game for me. That completely changed the game because, because of screenwriting you, I understand now the business of screenwriting Not, not just simply the the hours that you will stand writing, rewriting, you as you and I both know you know that that first script is, is just a vomit script. That's all it is. You know, it's just, you just have to get it out. You give birth to that thing. You lay it aside for a couple of days. You go have some pancakes. Yes, we'll talk about that later. And you know, you're still out. You do what you got to do, and then you come back and you work, and you turn that thing into the great script that's going to help start your career, but, but that was, that was the defining moment for me, because I'm looking at her career, and I'm looking at the changes that she's made, and I looked at the changes all the other people who had, who had gone through it hadn't made them I'm like, this is the real deal. And I got, I got to do this. And it was, it reminded me a lot of McKee. It was a little bit of that fire and brimstone. But it also came with a vast amount of business intelligence that I think most screenwriters will not, will not find in any screenwriting book that's out there.

Speaker 1 24:19
Yeah, I, I've, I'm a member of the Pro Series as well, James, and I know you took the Pro Series as well, and you know, it's just, it's funny, because, you know, when I took the, when I took the course through screenwriting, you I was a little bit hesitant. And to be honest, I guess again, I'm like, oh, not another course. I was like, man, not another course. And then I realized, well, there's so many good things that are coming out of it, like, there's so many people that I know of who are like, who just who said something similar to what you just said, who said, you know, look, it's not the same type, of course, and it actually focuses on other things, and it focuses on the business, and you have assignments there that are due every day, every other day. I. And then also the, the big one for me, too, was the was the group, because you actually get that, that secret Facebook group where it's like a ton of, you know, like minded people. So I, you know, we took, I took the course, and I was like, Okay, now it's like, the nitty gritty of this, you know. Now it's like, okay, look, if a producer asks you for X, Y and Z, they're gonna expect you to deliver X, Y and Z exactly, and, you know what? And I think a lot of other amateur screenwriters that before, you know, before they went in, would say things like, oh, you know, well, if a producer, producer doesn't like the script, maybe I'm not the screenwriter for them. Well, you know? I mean, maybe, maybe that's the case sometimes, you know, because obviously, as you know, James, this is like a relationship when you're when you're a screenwriter, you know, going to a producer, and vice versa. I mean, you have to make sure that it's going to fit and everyone can get along. Because, you know, you don't want to have any sort of anything bad happen. You won't have any infighting, but so, but you know, maybe you know, but they will say things like, Oh, well, the producer wants me to change this or that, and I just can't do that, because everything is, you know, whatever, but,

James Moorer 26:04
Oh, my goodness, I can't, I can't name any names, but I picked up an assignment because the screenwriter who was on it initially refused To make changes and and they wrote, and the people approached me, or was just like, hey, we hear you're, you know, you're pretty good. And, you know, yada yada yada. Would you be interested in taking a shot at this? It's like, okay, well, what do you guys want? And, you know, we sat down and, you know, they gave me, you know, basically their notes of what they wanted to do. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's simple. I can probably knock that out in two, three weeks. I said, Give me, I think, give me four weeks. Just you to be sure, because I want to, you know, run it through my own process and make sure that I've got it to where you need it. But obviously, if there's any questions or any additional changes I need to make, I'm I'm good to do it, they were static. I and it wasn't until later that I found out that I actually knew who that other writer was. Not only did, did I get that assignment, they gave me another assignment on top of that. So it's, it's, it's, it's, really, it's almost the ultimate screenwriters fatal flaw is when someone gives you a note that they want to make a change, to say, I'm not going to do that, or I can't do that, that is literally putting the stake through the heart of your screenwriting career. Because at that moment, and this is, and I've gone through both the Pro Series and the Master series, the master screenwriting class, when when you get to the level where people are are comfortable enough to ask you for those changes, and you say, No, you invalidate their belief in you, you invalidate the credibility that they believe you already have. And that is what can kill your career.

Dave Bullis 27:55
Yeah, because, you know that's so true. Because you know, as we're just saying, you know, it's, it's like a relationship, you know, and you have to be able to trust one another, and you have to be able to know I can count on this person, because, and you've been there before, too, James, where you've been on a production, in one role or another, and you've, you know, you've seen people who can't be counted on. They, you know, maybe it's, it's like the student short film where we've had, you know, I know you've probably seen this too, where people have not shown up. Hey, I want to, I want to, I want to be an actor. They'll tell you, they'll tell you to they're blue in the face, James, I want to be an actor. I want to be this. Okay, here's your chance. And a day comes and they know show or they call you the night before, yeah. And it just, it boggles my mind, like, and then, you know, I and just another little quick story, James, I had somebody who once no showed one of my short films years ago, and she actually said to me, will make, you, know, always keep me in mind for future roles. And I sat there and I stared at this email and I and I go, huh? So I actually emailed her back, and I said to her, why on earth would I keep you in mind for future roles when you didn't even show up for this role? Like, why would I do that?

James Moorer 29:00
Exactly, exactly! And it's, it's, you know, I get it when, and it's kind of a, you know, especially if you're working on a project or something, and you're doing a short, it's not a lot of month involved or whatever, or it's a passion project or something, and people are just like, you know, I'm not getting paid, you know, whatever, but, but, but, but, if you think of it, if you think of it in this way, that person that that you're that you're working with that day, if you, if you, if you show up, if you just show up and commit to whatever it is that you and do what you promise to do, wherever they go at some point down the road in their career, they will remember you, they will. They will either a like, like you just said, you know, why would you ever hire this person? Or, you know, for any future projects? Because they've demonstrated to you that they can't be trusted with the with the smallest of stuff, so that by the time the Dave Bullis blows up to be doing the big stuff, No, you can't call Dave. That's it, you know, but, but it's, it's, it's, it's a reality that that a lot of people in the industry don't seem to fully grasp a lot, because what, for whatever reason, is just like, do it? You know, it's just like and, you know, and especially here in LA people, it's notorious that people will flee from. It's just, I mean, it's almost a given. And, and even even with screenwriting, when you go to to pitch or to talk to somebody, and, you know, you shake your hand, and they kind of give you this kind of glazed over look. Isn't because they don't, you don't take that person. It's not because they don't like you, or they don't care about you, or they think that your story is crap. It's like they've had so many people that they've had to listen to or put up with that just could not deliver, or, you know, or just what, for whatever reason, weren't, weren't there, weren't ready. So you begin to have an understanding of what, what this actually means for me is that if I'm on Dave's step, and I know that this other person is going to flake, I'm thinking in my mind, this was my opportunity to show Dave that I'm committed, that I'm then I'm dependable that no matter what he does, whether we're just shooting in the basement somewhere off side of the river in Pennsylvania, or we're down in Times Square, you know, with a million dollar budget, I'm 100% no matter if it's $1 a million dollars, because that's what Dave is going to remember at the end of the day. Who are the people that I can count on to help me deliver what I need to deliver.

Speaker 1 31:47
And that's so well put James, you know, because I There's a saying that I have to and it's basically things are only as professional as you make it out to be. And, you know, that's why, whenever I have people on the on the podcast and and they were discussed, you know, hey, listen, we're not on the either coast. We're in the middle of America, and we're making a film, and in this town that probably has a population of maybe 1000 or whatever. And you know, if they're taking it seriously, though, I said you that's all you need. I said, because if you're taking it seriously, you're meticulously planning things out. You've got people that, you know can, you can depend on. I said that that's making them a true movie, right there, not this stuff where, you know you're gonna sort of get your friends together, make a movie. I said that I've never heard of that working. I know a lot of people who tried that and never has worked, but, but, you know, and you mentioned to that you're because you're, you're in the LA area, and I and, you know, you mentioned people would flake out on you, or flake out on a production. And I've heard other people say that as well, and it always puzzles me, because to me, if you, if you've taken that long stride, that gamble, to move out to LA, you're out in LA right now. I don't know why, every single day you wouldn't have your game face on. And if James Moore came to me and said, Hey, I need you for a production for X, Y and Z, even if it was to stack water at catering, they would say, You know what, I'm going to be the best water stacker that James has ever seen, or I'm going to be the best, whatever. Because, again, like you just said, You got to, if you don't, you don't know who's gonna, you know, net be, you know, having a multi million dollar production now. I mean, honestly, James, I always see you. You're always moving forward. And that's why I'm glad I had you on the podcast, by the way, because I'm like, Man, this guy is just always has, has an iron, a new Iron, in the fire. He's always in, you know, an inspiration. And I, and that's such a great point you just made, though, is, you know, when these people flake out, they don't show up or whatever, and then they try to ask if they could work with you again, you're like, Well, why would we even bother?

James Moorer 33:49
And you know, for me personally, it's a it's all about, you know, realizing and recognizing that for everything that I'm doing and everything that I've done, that I didn't do it, and one, I didn't do it by myself, and there was always someone there along the way to at least be able to recognize and then open the door for me. So I'm very grateful and very appreciative of a lot of the stuff that I've been able to do. Quick story, the very first indie film that I worked on when I got here I worked on as a PA, and I remember I got the call at like, one o'clock in the AM, and one of the producers called me up, and he says, Hey, we definitely want to go ahead and use you. Can you be on set tomorrow? And yada yada, and this is what you're going to do. Granted, outside of the short film that I shot in Ohio, I'd never worked on a full blown set. So I show up. I'm there they, you know, they get me my headset, my microphone, you know, my walkie, you know. And they give me, they give me one instruction. Every time the director yells cut, make sure he has a bottle of water. Just make sure he's good to go. Other than that, you know. Make sure, you know, I'm covering the edges. Make sure. Everything squad on set, whatever it takes. And I would always, I always made sure right before he called cut I had not one, but two bottles of water in my hand. So not only did I have a bottle of water for the director, I had a bottle of water for the ad. The first night after I finished the first day of working on set, to call me again. We didn't wrap until like, 3am in the morning. The producer, who initially called me called you back in. He says, Hey, we want you for the next eight days for the rest of the shoot. And we also like to bunker pay, which I'm like, oh my god, okay, but, but, but it's that, it's that little bit of effort showing this like, look, even the smallest job you gave me to do. I want to make sure I'm doing it 110% it was just getting water for this, for this, direct, that was it, you know, I didn't. I didn't like, Oh, can I get your autograph? You know, I wasn't that, you know, I didn't. I didn't go star crazy, you know, I did my job. I showed up and and when I think it was about the fourth or fifth day, when we, you know, we, we we built for lunch. One day, he actually pulled me this side and said, Hey. So, you know, you know, what are you doing? What are you working on? What are you into? And now he's, now, he's reaching out to me without me having to go, Oh, would you please read my script? Which is another mistake that a lot of people make. So it's, it's about being, being, being present in the moment too. So if you can, if you can do that, and I encourage every single screenwriter I know that's still struggling to get to get out there work on a set, whether it's in Pennsylvania, it's in Columbus, Cleveland, LA, get on a set and work you learn so much that that supports and helps your craft by seeing what, what the other parts of it look like, what it feels like, and that, in turn, affects your work. It brings, it brings a certain depth and and richness to it that you would not have had otherwise.

Speaker 1 37:01
Yeah, yeah. And that is a great example to James deal again. See, you, you actually worked hard, you know, you kept a great, positive attitude. You didn't, you know, obviously, you know, you knew you were professional. And, see, that's, you know, that's one of the other things that we were talking about, too, is, you know, some of these screenwriters, they don't like, they don't network, maybe they just be feel that, you know, they they shouldn't have to network. And you know, to James, the number one question that we that a lot of screenwriters who've actually made it get is, How do I get an agent or a manager? And I think I forget who once told me this, but their response was, you don't want an agent or a manager to read your stuff yet. And also getting an agent and manager is not the golden ticket that that you assume that it is absolutely, you know, because, because, yeah, because, because, there's a lot of hard work. There's other things that are that are involved in this. And it's not just as simple as, oh, well, I have a manager now. I, you know, it's funny, too, James. I mean, this is just going back to the acting side of things. But here in Philadelphia, probably about three or four, maybe five years ago, there was this agent who came here. He he had left LA, and he was going to set up a home base here in Philadelphia, and he started so he was going to start a new agency, and he was going to sign a bunch of these actors to under him. And every single, like, tons of people that I knew were gonna sign under this guy, and I'm sitting there going the red flags are just going crazy about this guy. Well, somebody showed me one of his contracts, and basically it was like one of these evil, nefarious contracts that you hear so much about, where it says, like, you know, if you want to work on a student film. It has to have my permission, and you can't blah, blah, blah, and it's like, very, very controlling. So basically, I think the end goal of what this guy was trying to do was, was he was going to get all these actors and and basically, if one pay because they weren't, they weren't, basically they weren't paying him anything. But he would could, you know, at that time, the Philadelphia area was little hotter for film and TV production. And I think he thought, hey, listen, if they go out and they work on this lottery commercial, they go work at M Night, Sham long project, you know, hey, that that's, you know, five actors here, an actor here, an actor over there. You know, he could start actually earning some some money as as their agent, by getting that, that 10% commission, or what have you. But I after, like, some people kind of confronted him about this, he just blew out of town all over again, and no idea where he ever landed. But it reminds me of, you know, and people were online, you're on Facebook, going, oh my god, I can't believe I almost signed with that guy. I can't believe I almost blah blah. And, you know, I'm sitting there going, see this is what I mean, you know, just because you have an agent as an agent as an actor or as a screenwriter, you know, it doesn't mean that's that silver bullet, a golden ticket, you know, that's going to get your career to that next level.

James Moorer 39:51
You're absolutely correct. I I had my first agent a couple of years ago. It was, it was, it was a nightmare. I mean, there's, there's no other way around it. It was an absolute nightmare. My writing partner at the time and I, we were, we were gung ho. I mean, we were, we were kicking out material left and right, ready to go. And it was, it landed us absolutely nowhere. And in the lesson learned at that point was just like, if, if they, if they're really serious about you, they will, they will. They will come at you or or as as in the case with my I have a manager now. I'm with Agent purple skull management, and she's great. She's amazing. But I got her through a referral from another screenwriter who's already got a couple of films made. In fact, you had her on to get Nicole Jones, Dion and and Nicole is awesome. I consider her not only just a friend, but a mentor as well. But had it not been for the referral, I wouldn't have my manager. So a lot of times it isn't simply just the work that's going to get get you out there. I mean, look, you could send, you could send 1000 query letters out to every major agency, every mid level, even some of the smaller guys that are out there right now, and not give but one response back. And the the reason is, is it's a little well, it's really simple. Actually, I take that back. The guys at the top aren't going to talk to you unless you have something that's going to make them money, because they have probably 20 to 30 other clients that are doing stuff with Spielberg or Ridley Scott or on network television, or they just got staffed with Shonda Rhimes, and that's their bread and butter. So they're going to take care of their bread and butter before they reach your query or they request your script. And you have to understand this is, this is what was great about screenwriting you and learning the business side of it, going in with the knowledge that if you aren't properly prepared, their automatic response to you is no but if you know how to go in properly prepared. You can circumvent that note, even if that no doesn't come until some point down the line, we read your script. It's just not for us. You at least got them to read. You at least got them to open a door. And that open door itself could lead to a relationship, and that relationship could lead to an assignment. It could lead to a sale, but it will move the needle forward on your career. I The biggest. And it goes back to, you know, to to screenwriters working on on a on a film, on a short, or whatever, get out there and get the experience. Because not only do you get the experience, you also you also get the credibility. And so if you're able to to get that more so than the money, because a lot of times guys just come out and they focus on the money. I need to get paid. I want to make this. How do you know, as a first time screenwriter, you're going to be able to make 30, 50, $100,000 on your first sale, the first assignment job I ever did in my entire life, I made 600 bucks on 600 bucks for a full fledge feature script. Not a lot. I'm not, I'm not a member of the writer guild or anything. So it's just like, why would I? Why would I do that? It's like, why would you, why would you take only $600 for your first script? Because if this script gets made, guess what? It's a movie. I have a credit. But even if it doesn't, guess what, I have a script that I've sold or I've optioned. So you have to understand, a lot of times, it's not about the money on the day. It's about it's about the credibility that you can gain, that when people come and look and see, what have you done? What have you you know? What have you been able to accomplish thus far with your career that puts you on the map? So get the credibility before you try and get the cash. And I know a lot of people are gonna like, James is crazy, but James would not be where he is today if he did not come to terms and accept that fact.

Dave Bullis 44:18
Yeah. And, you know, I love that term, moving in the needle of your career, because you know that that's what you know we're all trying to do to James, you know, we're all trying to move that. And I think, you know, there's so much of what you just said, because it gets lost. You know, they, they, you know you, you're clearly a professional screenwriter. You know what the talk you're talking about you've been in those meetings, you know, you've worn all different types of hats. And, you know, I just saw something on your on your Facebook post of yours, where you got representation now with purple skull management, yeah, purple skull management. And I said, man. I said, again, here's James. Again, he's always moving forward with something else. And I. And I'm sitting here going, Man, this guy is always moving forward. So, so, James, how did you end up getting, you know, with purpose, purple skull, entertainment, management, you know, how did you end up getting signed with them?

James Moorer 45:11
I want to say a couple things happen with them. One, first and foremost, you know, I wouldn't have gotten there, I don't think, without the referral that I had from Nicole Jones. So, thank you, Nicole. But to you know, outside of the referral, the work had to be there. I had to be able to show them I'm a great screenwriter. I can deliver solid, marketable material. And there's, there's the number of steps that I've learned through through screenlining You, of what producers, even managers and agents, are looking for in a script that will make them let them know that this is a highly marketable project. This is something that I can take out to whoever and and I've got a great chance of making a sale with, because at the end of the day, these people are also, again, back to the business. Are trying to make money, but they, but they also want the relationship. So the script that I sent in, which my most recent thriller that I've written, which has been requested now by about, I want to say about 40, 50, different production companies I sent over, and you love it. We We then followed up with a couple of emails, and then actually had a meeting to kind of discuss where, where my career direction was, in terms of where I saw myself within, within a year, five years, and really kind of felt each other on us to like, are we the kind of people who would be very comfortable and excited working together, and if that was the case, then let's definitely move forward, because it can be exciting for us both. And I She threw me the curve that I knew was was going to count. She asked me something about my screenplay, and it was to make a change. And she sent me an email, and she said, Listen, I love, love your work, you know, very strong writing, yada yada yada. But I thought that this didn't work. What if you changed and did this, this, and then this, and I got the email, and I responded, and I thanked her for everything, and I said, regarding your note, and I thought that was absolutely amazing. I'm very eager to discuss your thoughts on expanding what you suggested even further. The first line in her email response back to that email was simply this, I am so extremely excited that you are welcome to these changes that to me, I think it's what made the difference, in terms of her mind that, okay, I'm dealing with someone that I know that's going to be a professional because, because, again, a lot of times so many screenwriters kill their own careers, and not just, not just wound or engine, I say kill for a specific reason, just like that young lady that you described that flaked on you on your project. It doesn't matter if it's a year from now, 10 years from now, or whatever that's she's done, it done and so and so. To these production companies, even the small ones, when they're looking for material, when they're looking for people that that they can work with, it's like if you could have great material but be a problem to work with. They don't want to put up with that. Why? Why would they? Why would they go through the torture of working with someone who's got a great script, but allow the attitude when they can take someone with a okay script, not quite there. Just needs a few things. But that person is really great. Every time I talk to them, and every time that we get together to have a meeting, I leave that meeting feeling like, not only are they going to take my suggestions, they're excited about doing it absolutely, because it's about cultiva, it's about cultivating relationships, and that producer that you work with today could be bloom house tomorrow.

Dave Bullis 49:08
Yeah, and, you know, it's good. Just go back to what we were talking about where, you know, we were talking about, you know, we're looking at things on both sides of the law of the coin, so to speak. You know, working as, you know, maybe a producer working on set as a screenwriter. When you're if you were a screenwriter, like, let's just say there's a screen reader out there right now listening to this, and they don't have a very large network, and one of the easiest ways is to actually just, you to read, go out and reach people, is to just go out and say, Hey, listen, I'm just trying to, you know, get my foot in the door of the film industry. Can I come on and work as a PA, can I? Can I just come on and help in some small way, and then, you know, that'll get your foot in the door, and you can see things from the other side of the coin. Because, you know, when I worked on people said, James, I would see things going, Oh, this is going to be a problem. I see this. Is why. I see now why this is a problem. You know, I see now why? You know that what you just said about having a good attitude, you can have all the talent and talent in the world, and if you have a shitty attitude, people don't want to work with you. They do not because they just get, they get burned out from dealing with you. Because, like, you know, let's just say James that you're, you know, an exec. You're at the an exec of maybe Warner Brothers or Fox or Fox Searchlight. And you come, you see on your list, like, Oh, I got another script by Dave. He's a talented guy, but my God, every time he comes in here, I just want to strangle him, you know, I mean, right? You know what? I mean, it just, it just burns people out having to deal with that type of of attitude, you know? And I think that's why, when you, if you do go into a set and you see things from both sides of that coin, I think some people have an epiphany. We're like, Oh, I see now I can't actually, I should be more willing to work with people, and, you know, be more willing to sort of roll up my sleeves get this job done, and leave my ego at the door

James Moorer 51:05
Big time, because at the end of the day, I mean, and again, let's just look at it from the business aspect, someone is willing to pay you a six figure salary to write the screenplay that they're going to turn into a movie. Do you think they want to give you that money just blindly, because they they want to take a chance, or are they doing it because you've proven number one, your credibility is is, is intact in such a way that it it almost demands that you're the person for this. Two, you're a likable enough person that working with you and making the changes, whatever things that need to be made along the way, because there could be 1000 changes that you'll make to the script before it actually goes into production, you're going to be okay with that, and not only be okay with that, be helpful in making them happen. I think a lot of times screenwriters starting out, starting out think that they're making my movie. No, no, they're not making your movie. You're helping them make their movie. They're paying for it. Get it again. It's a business you you are a vendor, bringing you, providing a product that someone it's a business. So you don't go to McDonald's and order french fries. And the guy behind this like, well, I don't want, I don't feel like serving fries. I'm just going, I'm, I, you know, I'm the onion ring guy. So, I mean, you should try my onion ring. Well, I don't want onion rings. I'm looking for French fries. That's what the producers are saying to you. Look, you know, this is good, but this is what we're looking for. Can you can you get, can you give me this? If you can, great, and if you can do it with a great attitude, even better, because at some point along the way, if there's another project, if there's if there's something else that they need, and they go, You know what? This, you know, the my boss was supposed to use this the other guy over here, but, you know, he's kind of a pain to work with. But hey, you know what? I'm going to slip your name into the mix, and I want to see if we can get you in. Because, you know, great attitude, you know, let my boss know you're easy to work with. And we had a lot of fun. And you you deliver quality work. Be that person more often than the other guy. I mean, don't, don't. Do not. Do not ever go in believing that because you wrote the script that this is your project, the moment that you take it to market, you were saying, I'm offering my child for sale. So stop looking at your stop looking at your scripts as your children. They're your work. They're the they are the tools that help you, elevate you to where you want to be in your career. Now I get it. I mean, ultimately I want to be the next Dick Wolf or Shonda Rhimes. I want to be able to write what I mean, I want to. I love Shonda Rhimes because of her long monologs that her characters get. I would love to be able to get away with that, but I can get away with that now. There is, there is no producer when they're going to look at that and go, Whoa. That's a whole lot of get Look how long that dialog. No, absolutely not. But if, if I build the credibility day, if I, if I do the right things in terms of recognizing this is a business. These people are spending hundreds of 1000s of dollars that I don't have in order to make this project. So what if they want to make changes? So what if they want to turn this character into this kind of character? Okay, at the end of the day, I might be sitting back going in my in my head, but, but when they're looking at me in the face and what we're putting on the page, what changes do you need? It is, it isn't a fight. It is, it is a way to move the needle forward. And at the end of the day, anything that that contradicts that is killing your career. You're not harming it. It's killing your career. And and, oh man, if there's any, any screenwriter who's who's really serious about trying to move to the next level, grasp and embrace that fact, they're going to change your work. It's, it's, it's a given. It is an absolute given, except that the work is going to get made. You're going to get paid hopefully and and that it's going to it's going to raise your credibility. And the more often that happens, the more often you'll you'll get a chance to get a say. But starting out, understand that that's the way, and that's the way that it simply works. It's, it's just, it's just part of the process. But don't let that be a negative. Let that be the thing that that helps you move forward, because that, that alone will separate you from 75% of the other screenwriters that are out there shaking their heads doing there's absolutely no, I am going to change

Speaker 1 56:00
It's almost like they're a character in their own movie, James, like they won't change, like there's no there's no character,

James Moorer 56:10
There's a protagonist. It's like you haven't gotten to the point in your life. Oh, it's but. But the good thing, the good news, is this, um, it follow. The other thing I would tell aspiring screenwriters is it, follow other screenwriters on on on social media, on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, see what they're saying, see what they're talking about. Because here's the difference that that I've come to, come to ascertain from the guys that want to be screenwriters, and the guys who are the guys who are want to be screenwriters, when you look at their Facebook page and whatnot, they're talking about everything other than screenwriting. You know, they might be talking about politics. They might be talking about the weather they might be talking about, you know, throwing out some funny which is, which is all good. I mean, you know, that's your personality. God bless you, and rock on. But how much are they actually saying about the craft? How much do they actually, you know, you know, I had, I had a young lady who who hit me up one day, and she was like, I really need your advice about screenwriting. And I was kind of taking it back at first, because I'm like, hey, you know, I'm just out here struggling like everybody else. You know, you know, who am I to be giving you advice? She says, No, I've been following your page. I see all the stuff that you're posting. I see what you're commenting about, about the industry. You're very knowledgeable about what's going on? And I think you can help me and and I was just like, whoa. So people are paying attention to you in no other in no other medium, do you have the opportunity and ability to control the narrative about you? Think of the power that that gives you. How do I present myself as a credible screenwriter if I'm just starting out? Well, maybe I'm following Dave Bullas contest. When I'll see something that really strikes a chord with me, I post it on my wall. Maybe I'm following uh inkta or or screenwriting you, or any of the other different places or different people. I might fling a couple of screenwriters and repost some of their stuff and and on and on and on, because people are little and they say, go, Wow, what's this? What's this guy all about? Well, he posts a lot of stuff about screenwriting, about about television, about film. He must know something about the business. He must be some kind of a expert, if you will. But it establishes who you are. It establishes who you are. If you go out and ask anybody today who's who's seen or know me on Facebook, what are the two things you and you can answer this day, what are the two things that people know me for,

Dave Bullis 59:03
Screenwriting and pancake.

James Moorer 59:08
That's it. But they, but they which. But anyone who asked you, it's like, Hey, Dave, if I were to ask you, who would, who would you recommend that I talked to about, about the the best pancakes in town?

Speaker 1 59:23
Oh, I already know who I said. You got to talk to my buddy, James Moore, and he's gonna know. He's gonna know who makes the best pancakes in town, because it's him that's Who makes the best pancakes in town.

James Moorer 59:32
Exactly. So why would I also not want to be that same person when it comes to screenwriting? Hmm, I establish my own credibility by by directing and controlling the narrative. And again, I'm not telling people, Look, if you're passionate about kittens or puppies or an injustice or what has to happen, absolutely, raise your voice. I've heard it myself. But overall, what it, what is it that you're saying about, about, about yourself in the industry, especially in this industry, just like people say, hey, you know, jump up Dave bow. So Dave bullets, a screenwriter. He's an actor. He does this great, amazing podcast. You can check him out. I can. It's almost like I'm giving you, giving a log line on you. This is, this is who he is. This is what he does. This is why he's great. And man. And now, go. Now, go and find him. So you are your you're your own story.

Speaker 1 1:00:42
And I think that is so it's poetic, James, it really is, because you know when people do go out to find you know whoever you know, we might be talking about like we talked we both know Nicole Jones, Dion, if they go out to find her, you know, she's all over social media, all over, all over social media. And you know, and same with me. And you know, when, when I do follow other screenwriters on, like Twitter, for instance, because Twitter is my thing, you know, I follow the screenwriters, and sometimes all they do is they post stuff about nonsensical stuff. And I'm sitting here going, you know, I thought, you know, I thought they'd be posting more stuff about maybe the craft, or more stuff about writing. Hey, listen, everybody, here's my friend's movie. Why don't we go check this out. He's a, you know, he or she's a great person. They're a great filmmaker. Let's do this thing. But it's like, almost like, it's almost that they just use social media as, almost like an afterthought. And at that point, I'm figuring, why even bother anyway? You don't even need it, you know, I don't just take that down and just, you know, do nothing, and just sort of go back to where you're just a screenwriter, sort of writing screenplays, and always saying, you know, how do I get my name out there? Well, he had the opportunity with social media. You didn't need an agent or a manager to do that, because anybody can start a Twitter account or a YouTube channel or a Facebook page or what have you. Absolutely, you can get known that way.

James Moorer 1:01:55
Absolutely, I mean, I've even had I can't, I can't, I won't say his name. A known actor, well known television actor, who is also a Facebook friend of mine, commented on a post that he made. He saw, he saw my comment. Liked it. Saw that I was a screenwriter, emailed me and wrote me. It's like, Hey, what are you working on? I'd love to read it. He now has my script. Didn't need a manager, didn't need an agent. All I needed to do was present myself that James Moore, screenwriter and pancake lover, because we always set up this pancake.

Speaker 1 1:02:37
You know, James, one day I want to meet you in person, and if we don't have pancakes, this will be the biggest lit

James Moorer 1:02:43
It will be a crime. It will be a crime. And let me, let me tell you honest to God's truth, I have seriously researched god awful so many pancakes in the LA area. I know the spots. I don't, don't listen to anyone else. When you come to town, I take you out for pancakes. I will take you to some of the greatest pancake places in the world, in my opinion. And we will just throw down, just make sure there's a couch somewhere afterwards, and we will be napping after the fact.

Dave Bullis 1:03:12
You post so many awesome pictures these pancakes online. And I'm like, Mike. I'm like, my god, they look perfect. It looks like James literally got a food stylist and a pro level cinematographer, like, he's got Roger Deakins with them, and they're just, like, photographing these pancakes. But I'm just like, they just look so perfect on the plate. The lighting is perfect. And I'm like, Man, James really knows his his stuff about pancakes. I mean, he is, like, the pancake master.

James Moorer 1:03:39
It is a finely, well, home crafted art that I have definitely spent years and years developing. Well, probably only about six or seven, but still,

Dave Bullis 1:03:55
I do want to meet you in person someday, James, I know we've been friends on Facebook for a long, long time. And I met you through screenwriting, you and again, I would do want to definitely get Brad pancakes and, you know, James, I know we've been talking for about, you know, an hour now. So, you know, just in closing, I just want to ask one final question, and that is, is there anything that we didn't get to talk about that you wanted to discuss, or is there anything you want to say that, to sort of put a period at the end of this whole conversation,

James Moorer 1:04:23
Two things and first, first and foremost, thank you for having me on it to get you. You and your podcasts are absolutely amazing. Every screenwriter that's trying to get to the next level should be listening in and checking in to hearing what other people are doing, because it's, it's not a competition, guys, it's the community. And if you, if you realize that you're going to go, oh, oh, so far with this. Couple of people I wanted to send a shout out to, because as I'm moving forward, I also I never want to forget to take a moment to. Thank some of the people who've been exceptional in helping me stay on, on track and stay positive about a lot of the stuff that I'm doing. I already mentioned Nicole and Kimbrough, Heather Hale, who is also one of my managers, from mentors from early, early on, doing dearly love this woman, she's she's just been really, really an extraordinary human being who's who's offered me so many different opportunities that she didn't have to do, and she did them out of the kindness of her hearts, and did not charge me a dime. And I'm eternally grateful for that. My my, my home crew, James Lee, Nathan Jordan Margolis, Raymond Krogstad, kenita, kenita Russell, Tanya Harris, I know I'm forgetting somebody Oh Chris, Christopher Lee Lopez, and all of all of my, my sandbox family, you guys know who you are. I'm exceptionally thankful for, for just knowing you as human beings, and for the effect and impact that you had on my career thus far. And I know that there's, there's so much more. And of course, my screenwriting. You family, everyone from from Dave to Tom to how and Cheryl Crossman. Everybody in TSA 49 everybody in MSC five. We rock house. You guys are, you guys are just absolutely incredible. But to all of the, all of the aspiring screenwriters out there who are looking to to to get to where I am and beyond, where to where Dave is and beyond, there are three simple things that I would what would impress upon you to earnestly do. The first one is this, read as many screenplays as you can. There are, there are hundreds of resources right now. I mean, you guys have an advantage that I didn't have a decade ago in terms of getting your hands on on good quality scripts that you can read and learn from. Number two, write every single day, even if it's not a script, if you write a note to yourself, if you write something that's just meaningful that no one else in the world will see, but you rights and this the last thing is most important, because it will truly affect your career. Networking isn't something it isn't what it sounds like. It isn't just going out doing a whole lot of meet and greet and exchanging business cards. It's actually your first step in learning how to build relationships, because relationships in this business are what's key. And if you can develop relationships with people who, who are at your level, above your level, and some, some even who you know, who maybe you know, not even as advanced as where you are right now, if you can make the relationships. Those relationships are like planting seeds in a garden, and if you nurture them properly, they will pay off for you stop chasing agents, managers and money, chase the opportunity to develop and cultivate great relationships and create great content, and you will have the screenwriting career of your dreams. I swear to God, you will.

Speaker 1 1:08:27
And that is a fantastic way to put a period at the end of this conversation, James, I knew you were going to have something so poetic and prolific, and he didn't disappoint. And it's this has been a phenomenal, phenomenal conversation with you. James, again, you're somebody I wanted to have on here. To have on here for a very long time. I always see you're moving forward. Always see you're doing all these amazing things. Always have an iron in that fire. And you know, we talked a lot about social media too. So James, where can people find you at on social media.

James Moorer 1:08:56
So you can find me on Facebook. James Moore, on Facebook. You can also find me on Twitter, on LinkedIn, saying same James, or very soon, you'll be able to find me probably in about another month or two, at jamesmoore.com I do have a self help book that's going to be coming out that's going to be available on Amazon, called the epic so those are you who've been following my go be epic posts. We got a workbook for you do to kind of help you take it to the next level. And of course, my, my, my thriller novel to the pain the lady getting industry is also available on Amazon.

Dave Bullis 1:09:30
Thank you so much for coming on, sir.

James Moorer 1:09:32
My pleasure, sir. I'm glad to be on board and continuous success to you Dave.

Dave Bullis 1:09:36
Same to you, James, I know I don't even have to say it, because I know that you're always gonna have success, James, but I'm still gonna wish it for today anyway, because, I mean, again, you're always doing something really cool and and James, again, thank you so much, my friend. And let's talk very soon.

James Moorer 1:09:52
We shall, sir, and then the rest you guys go be epic.