IFH 866: The Brutal Truth About Making Horror Movies with Harrison Smith

Alex Ferrari 1:32
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:55
Joining me today is Harrison Smith. Harrison is actually the second person from Philly that I've actually had on my podcast, the other being David Greenberg. There's not a lot of filmmakers in Philly who've been on the podcast yet, but but Harrison's the second one. Harrison is the writer producer for The Fields and Six Degrees of Hell, starring Corey Feldman. Harrison made his directorial debut with the feature Camp Dread, which then Harrison followed up with Zombie Killers Elephant Graveyard. His upcoming film Death House is being called the Expendables for the horror genre. Harrison, thank you very much for coming on the show.

Harrison Smith 2:32
Thanks very much, Dave. It's really nice to be here, and thanks for taking the time to want to talk to me.

Dave Bullis 2:37
Oh yeah, my my pleasure, Harrison. You know, Harrison. You know, just to get started, you know, with everything, you know, I wanted to ask, you know, growing up, did you always, you know, have an affinity for film, or did you know from a young age that you wanted to go into the film industry?

Harrison Smith 2:50
Yeah, absolutely. The Fields. If anybody is is watched my film, The Fields, it shows a lot that I spent a lot of time with my grandparents growing up. My grandmother loved movies, especially horror films, so I spent a lot of time on Saturday afternoons with Creature Feature and Doctor Shock from Philadelphia and Creature Double Feature, all those things. And so by the time I was like eight years old, I knew the names of Vincent Price, Peter Lorre, Boris Karloff, Bela Lugosi, all of them. And so when my mom took me to see Jaws at the age of eight, I was in 1975. I saw it in theaters. I knew when I walked out of that theater, it's like this is what I want to do. Jaws is the movie that made me want to make movies.

Dave Bullis 3:33
You know that that's very cool. You know, I it's it's always interesting to hear everyone's background because some people really take to horror at a young age, like I remember myself, Harrison. You know, watching horror movies at a very young age, and you just be like, "Wow, this is just absolutely amazing. You know, and you know, it's just it's really just really cool how we can just sort of take that and you know make a career out of it. So you know, just taking all that, Harrison. Did you decide to go to film school, or did you go another route to get to actually do it for a living. Yeah, no,

Harrison Smith 4:02
I wanted to make movies. Like I said, I I was making movies as a boy growing up. I did it all through school, middle school, high school, the whole thing. I had a local cable TV show, a comedy show with my brother in it, and I decided. Well, you know, I guess when you're in high school, the the thing you want to do is one of them. I wanted to do was backpack through Europe, and my mom was like, "Absolutely not! Like you're going to, you don't go, you'll never go, that kind of thing. And so I ended up going to Penn State, where I didn't even last a semester and a half. I mean, I just partied my way right out of Penn State. So you know, I went to LA. I ended up getting a job at Universal Studios at Los Angeles, where I worked out there, made a lot of connections, a lot of you know, got a lot of knowledge. I think I learned more working on the set of Universal than I did you know going to school, but I really didn't give it the old college try either. However, I don't. I'm I'm still on the fence about film school. I'm not one to ever discount education. I mean, I have you know my master's degrees and all of that stuff. However, to go to school for film, not quite so sure about that. I mean, I know it can teach you certain things, especially in the way of you know, like let's say even computer design, you know, animation, you have to learn those things, and I get it. I'm still not sure about where I stand on where if you can teach talent. You either have that creative ability and most of all that gumption to get up and do it. I mean, the the number one thing that any good film production class should teach is you go out and you do it. That's it. You you can't teach how to produce. You you only know by doing it. John Carpenter will say that. I mean, you you grab a camera and you go out and you shoot. Dean Cundy will back me up on that. You know, to to sit in a class in front of a textbook and watch movies or whatever. You can learn things. Yes, I'm I'm never discounting that. But what I am saying is, is that you got to get out there and do it. It's as simple as that. If you want to make movies, go make movies. That's the best advice that I have.

Dave Bullis 6:08
And you know, that's actually similar advice to Harrison from from some of the other guests. Because I'm always interested to know, you know, if the guests went to film school or not. And it's always, you know, interesting to see, you know, what if they did, did they feel they gain anything from it? And if they didn't, did they do they kind of wish they did? And it's just interesting because you know, and you mentioned it yourself. You know, you didn't want to you know discount education, but it's just interesting to see everyone's sort of path to in this industry.

Harrison Smith 6:33
Yeah, I mean, we're in a society now, Dave, where most filmmakers will tell you that we're we're in a spectator society. We're in a society where everybody can get online and be a critic. But my answer always back is very simple, and that is, and and what film did you make? Oh, you've made nothing, but you snark on the internet and put anonymous comments on, and we've now confused the line between true criticism, which is great, and reviews, which are not reviews, they're they're not. They're they're just they're they're just posts. They're comments on on IMDb or Amazon or YouTube. You know, like like for example, look, I don't know where I stand on on the new Ghostbusters movie coming. Quite frankly, I just really don't care if it's good, great, and if it isn't, oh well. But you know the amount of piss and vinegar that came out for that trailer, mostly from people that have never made a film. They don't know what goes into it. They they have no idea what what it happened. Most of them are judging something based on a 32nd trailer or 62nd trailer. So I mean, I look you and I both know we've seen trailers where something looks awesome, and then you get there and you found out you saw the best parts in the trailer, and the movie is nothing like that. So we're in a we're in a very spectator society, I guess is my point, where we're losing the ability. Not all of us, but people lose the ability to understand what really goes into something. Like film is not a product, and the moment that film becomes product, it loses its its intent and its magic. Film is a laborious process. Any independent filmmaker listening to me now knows that. Whether your budget is 5000 bucks or 5 million bucks, the same amount of effort goes into it. It's all relative, and for the critics, they just go, oh, it didn't have those great special effects. Oh, it doesn't have this. It doesn't have a star in it. Well, yeah, that's because you're sitting somewhere on a laptop, a computer, your cell phone, and you don't do it. You're not out there doing it. You're not out there dealing with how do you feed a crew, how do you where do you lodge people, dealing with permits from cities or or any of that. So we've become a very A very comment-based society, and and that's that's tough for anybody listening to me that's out there, and they're putting their neck on the line, and they're they're you know taking someone's money that has been vested into them and trusted into them to to make the best possible product for a return on investment.

Dave Bullis 8:57
You know, there's an account on on Twitter called Amazon movie reviews, and it actually it harvests all of the most weird, craziest movie reviews. And some of the time, you'll see like a one star review. Wolf of Wall Street has as one of the most memorable ones. It was one star review. There were no wolves in this movie.

Harrison Smith 9:17
Yeah, yeah, that's what you're up against, right? This is this is definitely what we're up against. There's one guy on YouTube, and I have a post. I publish a series of film articles called Cynema, C Y N E M A, and it's on Horrorfuel.com. It's hosted over there, and you know I talk about cynicism in filmmaking and how dangerous it is, and I did a swipe at these supposed online movie bloggers and reviewers. Look, I have no problem with somebody qualified watching one of my films and going, "Well, I didn't care for it, and here's the empirical data as to why. That's fine. What I don't like is, you know, I've had people, for example, here's one in a review where they absolutely loved Camp Dread. I mean, they did nothing but praise this movie, Dave. And then, then at the end, they go, "It's it's probably the best sequel to Sleepaway Camp that they've made. Well, you just blew the entire review. My Camp Dread is not a sequel, and it is not affiliated with Sleepaway Camp in any way other than that Phyllissa Rose stars in the film, but she is not Angela Baker, and it has nothing to do with that original storyline. So all the praise that they heaped on my film tells me nothing because you didn't watch it properly. You did not even look at it, and then you have others that claim they're reviewers. And one guy in Camp Dread said, "Well, you know, Smith thinks it's creative to kill somebody at the end with a watermelon shot at their head. It's pretty damn clear that that's not a watermelon that's in that sling. So, and then when I contacted the guy and I said, "Look, I understand you. You may not have liked all of Camp Dreader that the ending put you off, but your information is incorrect. There there is no watermelon at the end, and anybody who's seen the film and listening to me right now knows that is not the case at all. And then the guy said, "Oh, yeah, I guess you know I I didn't write this review until a couple weeks after it, I guess I didn't look at my notes. You don't need notes for that. That's like saying at the end of Jaws, you know, it's a shame that the they launched the shark into space. No, they blew it up with a tank in its mouth. Oh well, I didn't have my notes. How do you forget something like that? So that's that's the issue I think that's that's out there now. The films are being looked upon as just product, and and they're not being looked upon as as you know something special or that people are working very hard on. And not all films people are working very hard on. I mean, there's there's truly some bad films out there that people have that American Idol attitude that they think theirs is the greatest. But I don't think we have a very well educated audience out there, I really don't. So with Har, like you said, there were no wolves in this film. Now, if that's a legitimate post and somebody was really expecting a wolf or a werewolf or whatever it may be, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Like I said, there's a guy on YouTube that does his whole review under a sheet, like as I guess he's like the unknown reviewer, and and it's just a shtick. There's there's no film analysis there. There's no criticism. There's there's nothing there other than that this guy thinks it's just really funny to have a stupid gimmick like being under a sheet and making fun of movies. I guess yeah maybe there's an audience for that, but then you have somebody as brilliant as Red Letter Media with you know mr. Plinkett's reviews, where I think his Star Wars critique should be studied in film school. I think he's brilliant.

Dave Bullis 12:49
Yeah, Red Letter Media. I I've actually seen all all of their videos, and yeah, I concur that their their Star Wars analysis is absolutely phenomenal. I actually had a a professor when I was in college, actually bring that up, and he said he actually showed a few minutes of it, and he goes, "Guys, when you go home, make sure you check this out. It is absolutely well, so well done because it's funny, but it's also insightful at the same time.

Harrison Smith 13:10
Oh, it's brilliant! I mean, you know, and he and he assesses so much more than just film criticism. He's he's looking at the the entire scope of the picture that allowed these movies to be made, and what I loved is, is they have a recent post now where he's he's like instead of the Force Awakens, Plinken awakens like he's been asleep for so long, and you know this this retro view now that oh maybe the the prequels weren't as bad as we said, and oh the internet drove poor George Lucas away from the Star Wars franchise, and now there's this ridiculous thing that you know we want him back to direct Episode Nine. No, no, and Planckit adamantly supports why this this should not be, and and all of the like I said the overall general big picture stuff that that contributed to a series of films that were not very good at all, and and really flew in the face of of what drove the original and and its subsequent sequels, and and that's that's what I'm talking about. We there's too much information out there now, Dave, and and a lot of people just you know they think well my opinion is the only one that should be heard. So we have now this my technology trumps experience, kind of thing. That's how I feel.

Dave Bullis 14:24
You know, there was a a documentary about episode one, and when they were actually watching the the the cut of of the Phantom Menace, and George said something like, "See, Jar Jar is the key to all this. If we can get him working, it makes everything else work, or something along those lines. And it was just very interesting to see how that all sort of came together because I think in that process I I think you know obviously there was a reliance on CGI and special effects and you know putting all the actors in a complete green screen a green screen room you know it's just very interesting to see you know how those movies movies were shot and the only real. Defense I've ever seen of those movies for like you know people who like the old Star Wars episodes you know four five and six they they always say about episodes one two and three they were mainly for kids and I don't really know if that's true or not if you know what I mean yeah

Harrison Smith 15:11
I agree I I don't know what look I'm not George Lucas and and I could only wish to rack up his type of failures. Okay, so it's hard to say on that. I mean, I wrote a two-part essay on it when George was out there belly aching about how unfairly he was treated or alienated from the process this time around of of making the new Star Wars film, The Force Awakens, and my answer, quite frankly, is is Disney. I'm not a big Disney champion nor fan, and yet I felt Disney did the absolute right thing, and that is they gave him a check for $4 billion and told him be happy to be on his way. And I think that was the smartest thing that Disney could have done. They made it very clear we're not interested in your ideas, we're not interested in your outlines, thanks for all you've done and contributed to this genre and and this film series, and we wish you well. And I think that was a very smart business move, and obviously the box office performance and overall reception to the Force Awakens I think reflects that. I think the Force Awakens was the the proper way to do things to kind of like reset the franchise. Yes, it relied incredibly on nostalgia. Yeah, you could argue that it's a remake of of a new hope. I get all of that, but there was really almost no other way that it could be done because of the damage that had been inflicted by those those three prequels. And so saying that the excuses while they were aiming for children, my question is: Well, who the hell asked you to do that? Since when did Star Wars become predominantly just for children, and why would you alienate an entire generation that grew up on those films and shut them out of the picture to make movies for that generation's kids? No one asked you to do that. There was no demand for any of that, it's almost arrogance. If if that's if that was Lucas's intent, my my question is: is who the hell asks you to do that?

Dave Bullis 17:07
Yeah, and also the reason I don't believe that either is because you know the storyline in episode one, for instance, is very very convoluted, and also the you know at the end you know Darth Maul gets chopped into two, and and Qui Gon Jinn dies, and I was like that that wouldn't be a kids movie,

Harrison Smith 17:25
And that's what I mean. It is you're right. It is it's a very poor excuse. What what it comes down to is, in my opinion, and it's nothing I wouldn't say to George Lucas to his face because apparently people have said I know Frank Darabont has pretty much said worse to him, and Lucas just stares back at you like I'm George Lucas, so I don't think he really cares. I think the issue really comes down to is you have the Elvis principle, and that is you know he became so big, no one's going to tell him no. So you have an emperor's new clothes kind of situation. Once that first draft of the Phantom Menace was done. It really needed to go through a team and have people go, George. No, that the dialog is horrendous. And by the way, George is the first one to admit in many of his interviews he hates the writing process, and he knows his dialog is wooden and stilted and not good. He's very much aware of that, and he even admits so much to say that he really doesn't care for directing all that much, so why is he allowed to do this? That was the question. Well, the answer is simple. He financed all those prequels out of his own pocket. So when you do that, you can do whatever the hell you want. I mean, there's there's a video I saw somewhere of of one of the the assistant producers sitting with him in a room, going, "Oh, okay, George. So I assume on set you'll be the one to yell action and cut. Could we suck up to this guy anymore? Yeah. Guess who yells action and cut? The director. Unless you want to be the first AD and do it because they do that as well too. What kind of a stupid conversation is that anyway, you know. Somebody needed to tell him this is not a good script. When when the opening crawl, that title crawl, comes out and it says the Phantom Menace, and at about one paragraph into it, three sentences or so, five sentences or so into this thing, we're talking about you know blockades, planetary blockades, and trade federations and and tariffs and all. I'm like, oh my god! Can my eyes glaze over? I mean, I knew within the first 30 seconds of that crawl, we're in trouble, and we were. You know that, and and you you just kind of approach those films as if you know. Well, I'll go see Attack of the Clones because it really couldn't be any worse than The Phantom Menace. Well, guess what it was, and then even with Revenge of the Sith. Well, I mean, everybody's saying this is the darkest one. Oh, this is it. No, that really that Darth Vader ending. That no, that was something you'd see on The Simpsons. You know, and when people are sitting in that theater laughing, and it's unintentional laughter. I mean, it was it was bad. It was just bad, you know. And and it's one of those again. It's the Emperor's New Clothes. Nobody wants to say it's bad because it's Star Wars. Well, guess what? They were bad from a production sense. No, they're beautifully made. They're richly textured. You know, you have top of the line stars in them. Look, there's a reason why. There's a reason why this guy isn't out there being proud and talking about his contribution to the Star Wars franchise. You know, the story is is that he signed on without a script. He wanted to be in Star Wars. Well, you got it, and he wasn't the only one who got taken. We all got taken, you know. I mean, we waited 20 years for that to to explain Minicorian, you know, to explain the Force as almost a genetic kind of of situation. Why do we need that? Nobody asked for that. We didn't ask for any of this. It's like now with this whole remake thing. Oh, we're gonna go back and give Jason Voorhees a backstory. Do do we really need that? Do we really need a backstory to Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees? Oh, so in Rob Zombie's Halloween, Michael Myers is the way that he is because his mom was a stripper and his dad was, you know, a wife beater, and oh, that's why he's. Why do we need that? Do we need to explain a tornado? Sometimes bad shit just happens. Sometimes bad things happen to good people, and there there is no explanation. Michael Myers, I always compare to in the original 70 film, is a tornado. He touches down in Haddonfield. This is before the subplot of Janie Lee Curtis's sister and all that soap opera garbage, but he touched down in a town. He's evil. He was born evil. Doctor Loomis said it best: like this, this kid is just evil. That's it. We we don't need any other explanation. We don't need that. You know, he tortured animals and he was picked on and he loved his mom, but his mom was beaten. And why do we need any of that? I mean, it's just fluff to make people feel like they're getting something more, in my opinion.

Dave Bullis 22:08
I wasn't a big fan of the remake of The Halloweens, nor did I like the remake of Friday the 13th, because that one. I, you know, I remember watching that, and and I thought to myself, wow, I don't know what I just saw there, because I I remember like two things from that movie right now. Because usually most movies I can remember pretty well. That one not so much. I remember something about a bus and Jason popping out of it.

Harrison Smith 22:33
Yeah, you know that's what I mean. Like that's cynicism in filmmaking, and and that's what I write about a lot, and that is: was this trip even necessary? Why not go back then? If you're going to remake stuff, remake the bad movies. Why are we remaking the good ones? There's no need to remake John Carpenter's Halloween. There, there's no needs. There's no need. There's no reason whatsoever to do this. None. And and you know people can say, well, it's to update it. What's there to update? Do we need to update Gone with the Wind? Do we need to take it out of the Civil War and update it to I don't know Iraq? Do do we need to do this? I I don't see the need for any of this. Everybody falls on that. Well, we're updating the movie. A good story is a good story. Do we do we need to update, you know, anything, you know, like the Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Do we need to rewrite that? Should we be rewriting Stephen King's Carry in the future? And people go, well, that's ridiculous. Well, why is it any different with remaking a movie? Does Jaws really need to be updated? What? Because some of the cars look old because they don't have cell phones in them? That this is stupid. It's just dumb.

Dave Bullis 23:41
Yeah, I concur. You know, whenever I hear about somebody's movies being remade, I mean, we you mentioned Ghostbusters earlier when they when they were gonna, you know, I know there's a female version of Ghostbusters, and I heard then there's gonna be a male version of Ghostbusters. I don't know if they're if they're necessarily a remake or a sequel prequel type deal, but I'm always wondering. You know, is is you know what's the intent behind this?

Harrison Smith 24:06
I don't know. I you know I I I it would be like like I don't care that it's an all female Ghostbusters. Like it's almost like that's a deliberate distraction to get people talking. You're like you're almost doing it deliberately to stir things up. Why is that an even an issue? I don't care. I mean, what what if they were all black? What if they were all Asian? Is is it an all Asian Ghostbusters? Is it an all black Ghostbusters? Who cares if the movie's funny? Go see the go see the movie. Who cares? Who cares if it's all women? Who cares if it's all animated? I don't care. Just make a good movie. But we create these things now to to generate the buzz on the internet to get people talking and fighting and bickering back and forth because in the end it's the old theory that you know there is no such thing as bad publicity so I'm sure that Apato and everybody were really upset that you know there was such hatred for the Ghostbusters trailer that. Out because they're sitting back going, but you're talking about it. Yeah. Now it's trending. It's everybody's the pre-awareness on the project is amazing. And let's just say it is a terrible film. It's not going to matter because people. A lot of people will go just to see if it is that terrible.

Dave Bullis 25:15
Yeah, and that that is very true. And you know, and you know, as we were talking earlier about you know everyone sort of has a blog you know reminded me of this you know of a couple different filmmaking blogs that I would stumble upon you know maybe you know a year or so ago and it would be people you know who went to film school who never really made a film just like you know like you were saying Harrison and they were they it seems like they wanted to but it was it was just a a rather a an easier way just to sort of watch movies and then just make these like real snarky comments about them.

Harrison Smith 25:47
Yeah, it's different when you go to a football game and some big fat load is sitting behind you talking about how the the coach made a bad move here and that player can't run. Really fat ass, get down on the field and go run. You know that that's how I feel. Yeah, and it's it's no different than a musician. Anybody out there who's working, it's like teachers. You know, you get everybody. Oh, teachers get you know three months off and they're overpaid. Really, go in and do their job. Okay, go in and do it. Look, I was a teacher, and I can tell you, the people that complain, I'll give you five days. You won't make it three, but I'll give you five, and and it's no different than construction. It's no different than anything that you're out there and you're working your butt off, and there's always somebody to comment. So it it doesn't just apply to filmmaking. You know, yeah, maybe I'm not in George Lucas's shoes. It's very easy for me to sit back and and critique because you know I'm not making $150 million motion picture, but when you see look all good films start in one place and that is with a script, you don't need a giant staff and you don't need a mega empire to write a good story, and the issue with all of the prequels comes down to one thing: it's on that page, that's it. You know, you you can once you if you don't have you're not improving on a bad script. That's all. And believe it or not, the computers still can't take that writing job over. They still can't write a good movie yet. So it still comes down to telling a good story. And those three films did not have good stories, and it's that simple.

Dave Bullis 27:23
You know, Harrison, it's funny you mentioned that because I was actually talking to a past guest about that just recently because she posted an article about a new screenwriting algorithm software, and they and she said to me, you know, one day she was like, "Are they just you know are studio execs just going to literally try to bang out a script by hitting a button saying like, "Okay, I want a a superhero movie with this and this and this. Enter and you know and you know it'll go through a million computations and all of a sudden you know out comes 100 120 page screenplay and they go, "Well, this is our next blockbuster.

Harrison Smith 28:02
And in some ways, didn't we have that with Jurassic World? Jurassic World is not a screenplay. I love when they say "written by. It's it's a to do list. That's all it is. I mean, they they basically remade all the best scenes out of Jurassic Park, and they stitched it together with some threadbare stories. So it's an algorithm. That's all it is, right? Introduce the kids, get the kids in trouble, rescue the kids, and in between intersperse it with some dinosaur action, and give us a Godzilla ending because that's basically what we got. The Tyrannosaurus walks off, you know, as the embattled hero, like Godzilla walked off into the sunset in the 2014 film, and then ends up on some type of helicopter helipad and roars off into the sunset, just like Godzilla does before he drops down into the water. I mean, that's an algorithm, is it not?

Dave Bullis 28:49
Yeah, and because that ending, I was kind of like, oh, okay. Everyone sort of teamed up. It reminded me of a of another movie I saw, which I actually think, actually, I think that was one of the sequels, the Jurassic Park, where some of the dinosaurs all teamed up at the end, and I was like, I think it was like, wow, I think I was like, it did seem, you know, you're right, it does seem like a to-do list.

Harrison Smith 29:10
It's all it was. I mean, you can see what they did. They they probably brought brought a Colin Trevorrow on as director and said, you're you're really not a director, you're a manager. Just get us from here to here, start us here, get that in. Make sure you get that. End it. Like that's all there is to it, right? I mean, I was I told this story to another interview. I was standing in line to see Jurassic World and the 3D version. I did not want to see. I'm sorry, the 3D version I was going to see, and it sold out. And all that was left was a 2d version, but it had already started. Like the first, I think the previews were on or something like that. So these guys, these college guys, were in front of me, and they were fretting, like, "Oh man, we're gonna miss the first 10 minutes. And so I stopped them and I said, "Gentlemen, let's really look at this pretty clearly here. What do you think we're gonna miss? I said I'll bet you it'll start with some kids, and they go to the island, and we hear John Williams's Jurassic Park score with lots of aerial sweeping shots of the island, and then we'll go down onto the island and see lots of dinosaurs, and everybody standing in wide-eyed wonder with their mouths open and agape. That's what we're going to have. And son of a bitch, if that wasn't the first 10 minutes of Jurassic World. And when I walked out, those guys said, "Dude, did you see that already? Yeah, technically we all did. We all did see this already. We we saw this before in three other motion pictures, especially the first one. Yeah, we did see it already. There, there. This is not a movie. This is an algorithm. So your previous guest is not off the mark whatsoever. You know, now will it be any good? I don't know how Jurassic World made the money that it did, but it did. And I think it's just because people. I wanted to stand up at one point in the theater and just turn around to the audience and say, "Don't you people see this is the same damn thing all over again? I mean, you can do a split screen, and I think some people on YouTube have done it. You can do a split screen and see scenes from Jurassic World, and they they show you right where they copied them from Jurassic Park. They're side by side; they're identical, and that's all it is. Terminator Genesis did the same thing. Went back, took the best scenes out of Terminator One and Two. Notice they don't do three, and they took the best scenes out of Terminator One and Two, and they remade them, and they stitched them into some threadbare story. And really, all it is is moving on. We start here, get us to the middle, get us to the end. That's not directing. That's managing. It's it's not directing a movie. There's no feeling there. There's no emotion. There's there's nothing original. And all we're doing is sitting there being reminded for another $10 of how much better the previous movies were.

Dave Bullis 31:53
Yeah, you're right. They didn't take from the the third one. And and you know I hear by the way I just read yesterday that that there's another one coming up, another a new Terminator.

Harrison Smith 32:03
Well, I you know I have no doubt about it. You know, I have no doubt about it. They said there wasn't, but that look, it's a franchise that I think Annapurna still owns the rights to. They need to make some money. Now, as far as I know, Genesis made money, you know, thanks to the the foreign market. I think the Chinese market that the film at least broke even and has generated probably some some type of profit. They wouldn't be talk about, I guess, if it didn't. But I don't know. I mean, there's all kinds of rumors about that. Is it going? Isn't it going? I I don't know. I mean, quite frankly, at this point, I I don't even know if Terminator is even relevant anymore? That's the whole issue. Do we are are these were these things that were pretty much '80s and early '90s escapist entertainment, and do they really apply to this world now? I mean, I saw where Genesis was trying to go with you know the eye in the sky kind of thing. You know, everybody being watched, everybody becoming a piece of information. I guess, but I don't know.

Dave Bullis 33:03
You know, I would have. I hate to be this guy Harrison, but I would have a pitch to how they could actually make the next one work. But you know, I don't want to be one of those kind of like quote unquote fanboys. There's there's there's a lot of different avenues they could take by because I mean the technology that you know I see almost daily now. You know, I it's almost like we're almost at the point where Terminator is supposed to take over anyway, right? I mean, you have security drones now out out in San Fran. You have fast foods going to be taken over by automation. You know, you have robot bartenders on cruises now. So it's it's almost like this film's almost writing itself.

Harrison Smith 33:41
Yeah, well, that's that's what I'm saying. Like, you know, does art imitate life? And we go through that whole thing. The real issue that that comes down to is you're you're saying it right there. You think you have a good story, right? That's all it is. It just comes down to I think I have a good story. So if there's a good, I mean, Terminator Genesis wasn't a story; it was a laundry list. That's all it was. It was a to-do list. There, there was no story, and the same with Jurassic World. Well, yeah, there was. People went to oh, well, where have we seen that before? I mean, what, what more can we do? I mean, we bring back dinosaurs. Dinosaurs eat people. That's what Jeff Goldblum said, right? That there it is. So you know, I mean, at least I don't know where they being at least upfront and honest. You got me. I mean, I paid money; they got my $10 to see it. But I do believe that you know studios will look for that algorithm. I think they already are. They're they're trying to cover their their bases now by making sure their their demographics are all properly covered. Do they do they have something for foreign appeal? Do they have something for this? And and in the meantime, we're also worried about offending people. We got to make sure that things are sanitized. And you know the people talk about now the the uniqueness of of a summertime R rated comedy that. That might be a little quote unquote raunchy. We're in a world now where everybody drops the word inappropriate and awkward, like they're they're part of our lexicon now, and I don't even know what they mean. Everything's inappropriate. Everything is awkward. You hear kids say it all the time. Awkward. What what does that mean? You know, was would Caddyshack if it was released today, be awkward. I mean, is Blazing Saddles inappropriate? And if there's anybody listening to me right now saying yes, they are, then you don't know movies and go get a sense of humor because you're a jackass.

Dave Bullis 35:33
You know, I've I've actually joked around with friends that I could like if they were to remake Caddyshack, I said I I could see exactly how they would do it and who the hell they would cast. You know, I imagine they would put Paris Hilton in the in the role of of that one. I forget the guy. For the girl's name, but she was the the girl who came in. Ted back Ted Knight's character. Yeah, yeah. She would have. You know, she'd be played by like Paris Hilton. You know, and I and and I would. I just kind of went down a cast list, but I said, you know, and and that's sort of, and you touched on that, where they would probably say, you know, should they even be at a golf course? Does anybody play golf anymore? You know what I mean? Should we make it at sort of a drone racing seminar? I don't know, but it's just, it's just, you know, with all the remakes nowadays, I'm, I'm, anytime they're going to remake a movie. I'm not really that shocked anymore because it just seems like that's like the latest sort of you know hey you know this original movie bombed so let's just go remake Ben Hur. You know what I mean?

Harrison Smith 36:30
I mean they they kind of forget like what made Caddyshack funny, and most people don't realize unless they've watched like those A and E biographies on it, is that the movie never came out the way that they intended, that the film was scripted to be about the caddies, and instead, basically, Rodney Dangerfield and Bill Murray and the boys they all hijacked it. And yeah, Harold Ramis said it best. We we went to Florida to shoot it because at that time there really was no film industry in Florida, and we went out there to get the hell away from the executives, and we had really one big drug and alcohol party is what they did, and it shows on screen. Like you can see when Rodney Dangerfield farts at that table and does his round around the dining room hall. I mean, you can tell the director was just probably go ahead, Rodney, go do your thing, and that's what made the movie funny. Bill Murray was on set what a week, and he ad libbed everything. Pretty much, his whole Carl character is-you know-Carl Spackler is is ad-libbed. That's what made the movie funny. Now we have-you know-everything's got to be properly scripted, and everybody's worried. Like, why are we worried about an R-rated comedy anymore in in the summertime? How many growing up? I mean, I don't know how old you are, Dave, but growing up, that's pretty much all there fricking was, you know. In the '80s, it was all our rated Kaporkis and all that stuff. Now everything's inappropriate and offensive, and we've got to be careful. And you know, now colleges have safe rooms for kids to go to if they feel unsafe. This is nuts. This is absolutely crazy. This is beyond Brave New world, we we have become so sanitized that even now we're afraid of our own culture. This is stupid, you know. Everybody goes well. Blazing saddles is offensive. It's supposed to be you, dumbass. It's supposed to show the stupidity of racism. That's the point of it. Yes, it's supposed to be offensive. Yes,

Dave Bullis 38:19
I know exactly what you're where you're coming from, Harrison? I mean, I'm 30, but I've seen all those movies. You know, Porky's. You know, I mean, we can go on and on. But you know, I've seen all those movies, and I agree. You know, the movies, and even you know, and it's something I always talk about too. Is the slashers from the '80s? You know, even the worst ones had some heart that a lot, you know, when I see like news slashers, a lot of them I don't know if they they've ever seen the old ones or if they just sort of maybe don't have the experience yet behind you know to to behind the camera or if

Harrison Smith 38:51
It's even that I think a lot of them are just trying to be so slick now like even low budget I mean look low budget filmmakers now have access to equipment that you know let's face it. 30 years ago, you didn't have. Did the digital revolution has changed things? So even bad movies can look great. And now you see that horror has become like this overlit, overproduced kind of look to it that has no heart, as you just said. And you know what you didn't have in technology or what you didn't have in shortcuts 30 years ago, well, you you made up for in heart. So you're right. Not not all of them, but many of them that were bad, they did have an element of heart to them. Where people are, damn it, they're trying. Now it's like all these horror films. They all have that blue or green filter on them, and they they all look you know they're over lit. They're very bright. Everybody's trying to look slick. Everybody's trying to look not low budget, and I think that's a problem. John Carpenter embraced that with Halloween in a lot of his films. I mean, yeah, they used Panavision on Halloween, and that was important. But yet, Halloween doesn't have an overproduced look to it. It does look like it was a low budget film, but they used it smartly. John was a brilliant director. And and he used it correctly, and he made it work to his advantage. He was telling a good story, and he didn't try to slick it up. That's where I mean, Halloween H 2o is not a scary film. I don't even really think it counts as as even a good sequel. It gets love from the fan base simply because Jamie Lee Curtis returned, and there's some legitimacy there, I guess. But I mean, it's it looks good. I mean, it's beautifully shot. It's beautifully lit. I just it doesn't have any heart. There's nothing to it. I mean, it's a very forgettable entry into the pretty much all of them are forgettable entries except for one that I always champion and that's Halloween three. I think Halloween three, if it had not been called Halloween three, would have done far better. And I think it's a great comment on the commercialism of of the holiday and is a fun horror film with some heart.

Dave Bullis 40:58
Yeah, I actually just showed Halloween three to some friends of mine last Halloween, and I said to them before I showed it to them, I said, "Listen, this is just Halloween in name. I said, "Michael Myers is not a part of this, even in the slightest sense. And one of my friends he watched, and he said, "You know, I think I actually enjoy that one sort of more than than than any other because he's like it was just so different. He's like it's actually different than a lot of other Harley movies I ever seen. Oh yeah, I mean,

Harrison Smith 41:22
Dave, you're right. Your friend is correct. I mean, look at Halloween Two. All Emmy picks up the same night. That is a dreadfully mediocre bad film. I mean, Halloween Two was just a contractual agreement to make some more money. It had nothing. I mean, the first Halloween movie was made by a bunch of artists who tried to make the best damn horror film that they could. The second one was just a complete knockoff. Is all it was, and and they could have made Halloween Two about the phone book, and people would have come to see it just because it was the sequel to Halloween. So you know, then you've got Halloween Four. I mean, Danielle Harris is great in it, and Danielle is a friend of mine. But let's face it: was Halloween Four a classic? It's the same damn story all over again. And then Halloween Five, Halloween Six, and then we've got Halloween H 2o, and then we've got Resurrection, and then we. What's different about any of these things? Nothing, you know. At least Halloween Three, which it should have never been called, like you said. It's only Halloween, a name only. Tried to branch out and do something cool, and you have to admit, man, Cochran is a wonderful villain in Halloween Three. He's terrific.

Dave Bullis 42:31
Yeah, you know, it was just such an interesting idea too, because you know, I mean, and and they all like the idea too. You know, the whole masks, the the song, and that song in that movie, by the way, does get in your head? You know, you know, you know. As we talk about horror movies, you know, I actually did want to actually talk about you know your films. You know, you actually have some impressive films that you've actually you know wrote, directed, and produced. Thank you. You know, so if you don't mind, I really would like to sort of talk in depth about so much about your process.

Harrison Smith 43:00
Okay.

Dave Bullis 43:01
Um. Really, you know, I guess we might as well start at the beginning, right? So, if we could talk about the fields, you know, you wrote and you produced the fields. So, I wanted to ask, you know, was the fields one of the first things that you've you've written? And you know, if so, you know, what was your process? Well, actually, even if it wasn't, you know, what was your process about on on actually writing the fields.

Harrison Smith 43:21
Well, the fields is based on the true story of what happened to me as a boy growing up on my grandparents' farm. So it was written totally from memory, is really what it was. I mean, Cloris Leachman plays my grandmother in the film, and I always say this almost in every interview: she didn't play my grandmother; she channeled my grandmother. Chloris became my grandmother, and seeing her on set and watching her in that movie-that's the closest I'm ever going to get to seeing my grandmother again. So it was written based on memory, and it was not hard to write because it was a true story. And you know, you get people going, "Oh yeah, they always say that. No, this-I-it happened to me. Like I know, it was based on true events because I lived them. So the little boy in the film is based on me. Tara Reet played my mother, and the Fields was not the first script I've written, but it was the first one to get produced, and it was a very grueling process. I mean, as I said, you want to learn about producing, get on a film set and just go produce. You'll find out real fast, you know how to do this. You'll you'll either sink or swim. The Fields was a baptism by fire. It really was. I will have to say, of all my filmmaking experiences, the Fields was the most unpleasant. It was extremely rough. It was one of those that by the end I was asking myself, "Is this what I really want to do? And I felt kind of cheated because all my life I've I've wanted to make movies, and then you finally get to make your movie, and it was not the sunshine and puppy dogs that you hoped it would be.

Dave Bullis 44:54
Was it a lot to do with like location issues, or because I mean, I mean, I I know how you know hard produced. A film can be. I've produced things myself, and you know how you know. And Harris, you know, and you've experienced this too, where you look at it on paper, and it looks like okay, you know, this should be a gimme. This is a gimme, and then all of a sudden, everything just sort of turns on its head, and what you thought was going to be easy became hard. Where you thought was hard became easy, and it's just sort of, you're just like, wow! What the hell did I get myself into?

Harrison Smith 45:23
I think it's like you know, if you produce something, then you know. I think a lot of it had to do with that. You're you're kind of thrown naked out on the stage is really what it is, and you know there there were a lot of things from SAG paperwork, and I don't care who's listening, SAG is a nightmare to work with. It it is just, and I think most independent filmmakers out there will agree and are probably nodding their heads. And if they're listening to this driving, they're going, "Oh yeah, you're you're thrown into all of this and dealing with you know pension and health and taxes and and how your taxes are broken down and then agent fees and you know the salary plus 10 and then line item budget issues, and then feeding people, and making sure that your caterers all work out. Because, look, I know someone who worked on a House of Cards, and I think they had close to a $4 million budget for catering. And he told me, he said people still complained. You know, they had chocolate fountains on set, and people are still like, "Oh, this food sucks. So you know, you you quickly realize you're never going to please everyone on the set of a film, and then you go into like you said, location issues, weather, all of the stuff that goes into it, and most of all, watching your screenplay in the hands of other people, two directors that sometimes put their own spin on things where you're kind of feeling oh you're you're kind of diverting from the source material. I wasn't I've been very vocal about this before. Nothing I haven't said to them. I wasn't always 100% supportive of the changes that they made to the screenplay, but it was their choice because they're directors. In the end, I feel I was pretty fairly treated as a first time writer, but as a producer, I walked away pretty bruised from it, and not to be over dramatic, but just it was tough. And as going into any type of career like that is, you know, any anyone can say that. Well, you know, I started out in this, and this is how you learn. So I I made my bones. I guess is the best way to to sum up the fields.

Dave Bullis 47:20
You know that's an excellent way to put it, Harrison. I made my bones. I actually, you know, I've had other people come on who've also written, you know, screenplays, or you know, it was a first movie that you know actually got produced, and they said, you know, for the for the better or for the worst or however it turned out, they were like, I'm just happy it happens, and you know, you know, sometimes you know, like you said, things go beyond your control, and you just sort of have to make peace with that because you can't control it. You know,

Harrison Smith 47:46
Yep, make peace is a good word for you. Just make peace with it.

Dave Bullis 47:50
So your your your next film was Six Degrees of Hell, and they actually had you know Corey Feldman in in it, and you know it was actually funny. I actually got invited to the screening of this. I I forget who invited me, but I actually couldn't make it. We actually would have met each other if I had attended this screening because it was in Philly. So you were you wrote and produced Six Degrees of Hell. So you know how did you go about writing this about writing this film, Six Degrees of Hell?

Harrison Smith 48:14
Well, it came from I went through a haunted establishment at Halloween time with my ex-wife, and we went through, and she hated those things. And we went through this one room, and there was a guy tied to a table. And I'll never forget as I walked by him, he reached out and he grabbed me and he said, "You don't get it. They're really killing people in here. Like they're going to kill me. Please, when you get out of here, call the police. And as I walked out of the room, I said to my ex-wife, "I said, well, you know, how do we really know that he's not telling the truth? Like, what if they really are going to kill this dude? Like, we won't know. You know, I mean, this is all part of the the game, right? This is all part of the illusion. And so I thought I would build on that for a film, and then I added a supernatural element to it, and we we got what we had with six degrees.

Dave Bullis 49:07
So what if what if that guy really doesn't bubble felt?

Harrison Smith 49:13
I don't know. I hope he's alive.

Dave Bullis 49:17
That's I thought you were going to say is like you know later on you're like wow

Harrison Smith 49:20
I never found out what happened to him. I'm kind of assuming he was okay.

Dave Bullis 49:24
So you know, when you went about writing this film, you know, actually, you know, your process of writing, I wanted to ask, you know, do you subscribe to any method? I always ask this to screenwriters, you know, meaning like you know, there's Save the Cat and there's a Sid Field method. So do you write like a heavy outline or treatment though before you begin?

Harrison Smith 49:38
I mean, sometimes you you I outline it. My business partner Mark is always like, outline it, outline it. Look, sometimes the best advice for any writer is write. That's it. Nobody can teach you the best way. Everybody's got their way. So you want to write, write. So sometimes something hits me, and I'm like, oh my god! And I'll I'll plow into the first act. I'll I'll get through the first act and the second act. Yeah, an outline. You know, Sid Field way. Sometimes you need to make sure your beats all hit. Yeah, I get all of that, and sometimes I do a beat sheet, but it depends on the project, and sometimes it depends on the mood I'm in. If I'm really passionate and I've been taken over by the moment, I just write, and then I go back and I constantly correct. I mean, writing is writing, and then it's pretty much 80% rewriting, is really what it is. I mean, you got to be smart enough to know to go back and rewrite, and I don't know who gets the credit with this phrase, but I think it was Stephen King who said, "You go back and you kill your babies. What you think may be brilliant on that page, you might have to get rid of, and that's something George Lucas could have learned.

Dave Bullis 50:54
Yeah, you know, I've also learned too in just writing myself. You'll drive yourself crazy if you sort of try to do like the the outline that so the the quote unquote script writing gurus always talk about like it has to be this by page 17 we have to see this and and what about this and I think that sort of I know at least my my own experience it's been very it almost makes a difficult task damn near impossible oh yeah because you're

Harrison Smith 51:19
You're not writing I mean, it's that balance. You can't write just for you, and you have to keep an audience in mind. But if you start trying to to write to the algorithm, as your former guests had talked about, you're defeating yourself. It's a self-defeating process, and then it becomes unpleasant, and you no longer want to write. You should write at first, almost like a mental vomit, in my opinion, and that is get it all out. There's plenty of time to go back and organize and make sure it hits the proper beats. And by like you said, page 25, all the major characters should be introduced. And by the end of Act One, something really important should have happened to close Act One. And I get all of that because in the end, we are making movies that I've seen movies which go on way too long, and you're like, ah, man, they should have just ended it here. They should have done this here, and they didn't do that. So, but I think in the end, the final analysis is just right. That's it.

Dave Bullis 52:12
Yeah, I concur. You know, something. I mean, even even now, when I when I'm you know in line somewhere, I sometimes pull out my phone and I'll pull out like Evernote and I'm like, oh, that's a good piece of dialog, or you know what I mean, like that's a good idea because I, you know, I don't really have a pen on me anymore, so it's like now with my phone, I can at least you know write on Evernote, you know, till I, so I at least have it. Yeah. Did you do you do that too? Do you do you ever

Harrison Smith 52:33
Tell people I'll hear a great line of dialog and say I'm going to steal that? Just you know, that's going to make it into a film someday What somebody said-

Dave Bullis 52:41
That's something I think a lot of writers do. I had like G. Michael Hoff on, who he he does-he's not a screenwriter, but he-but he's trying to get into it, or he's getting into it, and that's something he always was saying. Like he'll be in line for a Starbucks, he'd be like, "Oh my God! He'll be just listening to people talk behind him, and he's like, "Oh, that's a that's pretty good. I gotta get I gotta write that down. Yeah,

Harrison Smith 52:58
Oh, that's that's the best stuff. I mean, Mark Twain said it best: "Write what you know.

Dave Bullis 53:03
Yeah, very true. You know, Stephen King's on writing. By the way, I think that is the best book on a radio.

Harrison Smith 53:09
I own it. Yep, absolutely. And and I I follow it. You know, especially about um you know adverbs and things like that. Get rid of them. So I mean, I I've I've listened, and and it does improve your writing. It really does.

Dave Bullis 53:23
And I don't think you know. It's just to you know what he he usually writes novels, but I think you know anything screenwriting, you know whatever you're writing. I mean it's just everything he was talking about hit home. And I mean obviously he's a man who walks the walk because I mean how many number one bestsellers has has he had?

Harrison Smith 53:38
Well, and and that's the point because King does what is best. He just tells good stories.

Dave Bullis 53:44
Yeah,

Harrison Smith 53:45
You know. And people go, "Well, wait a minute. You know, the movies. No, no, no. You don't go buy the movies. You just go buy his books. And I mean, he's he's just there. Won't be another Stephen King for for generations to come. I mean, these these kind of people emerge every so often, and you know you don't want to be the next Stephen King. What you want is to be your own next thing instead of trying to ape or mimic Stephen King. Stephen King is successful because Stephen King came forward as Stephen King, and you you read his writing and listening to or reading, I should say, King's books and his prose, yeah, you you just kind of just settle back, and it's a very comfortable world because he's such a master storyteller.

Dave Bullis 54:27
Yeah, yeah, he he really is. To everyone listening, if you haven't checked out on writing, it is you know obviously I just said the best book on writing that I've ever come across by far and away.

Harrison Smith 54:37
It's terrific.

Dave Bullis 54:38
So you know, Harrison, you followed up Six Degrees of Hell with your directorial debut, which was Camp Dread. How did that come about? You know, did you write the screenplay, and then did you did you pitch it to anybody in particular? And you know, how did you get about you know actually getting the the director's job?

Harrison Smith 54:53
Well, I had a an investor who said I want to make this kind of slasher movie, and. I want you to do it, and he said, "I only want you to direct it. So I was like, "I guess I'm going to direct it. And he said, "Basically, I want Tit's Blood and Ass. Make sure it has that. I said, "Well, can I also write a good story? And he goes, "You can do whatever you want, but make sure it has those three things. So that's what I did, and I love Camp Dread. I think Camp Dread is a lot of fun, and we got a great cast in that. We have Daniel Harris, we have Eric Roberts, we have Phyllissa Rose, and that's how it all kind of started with Phyllissa Rose because I did not know her at the time, but in making this, I wanted her in the film to be a camp counselor, to be the big camp counselor in the film, and a guy was interviewing me for Fangoria, and he said, "You want Felicia Rose? And I said, "Yeah. He goes, "Well, I know Felicia Rose. And I said, "You do? He goes, "Yeah, you want her cell phone number? I'm like, "No, but you you could send her an email because I don't want her to think I'm some crazy stalker who's just calling her up. And he did an email introduction. Felicia Rose and I talked, and we became friends, and now we're business partners, and we've been ever since. She lives in L.A. I live on the East Coast. She's been wonderful, and she's great in Camp Dread, and most of I want a Camp Dread to be fun. It's got a great message, I think, at the end when you find out who the real villains really are in this movie, and I just I just had we had a great time making it. It was a lot of fun, and I'm very I'm very pleased with all the performances. And I think Eric Roberts. I don't know if you've seen the film, but Eric Roberts just makes such a great Hollywood scumbag.

Dave Bullis 56:40
You know, actually, Harrison, that is the only movie of yours I haven't seen.

Harrison Smith 56:43
We'll see it. Okay, it's a lot of fun. It really is, and it's just one of those you put it on at night, especially like a summer night, and you you just sit down and and let it seep into you. That's what I wanted. I we did not want just a lot of naked girls being killed, and I'm an equal opportunity offender. There's plenty of of male skin as well as female skin in the movie because chicks love a good horror film, and you know whether you're heterosexual or homosexual, it doesn't matter. Just enjoy what we put on the screen for eye candy, and we knew we were playing to a wide horror audience, and we gave them what they required, you know. And and most of all, we gave a good story, and it makes a big comment on on the search for fame and the extents that people will go to to be on TV or or win a little bit of money, and what they will do to sell out.

Dave Bullis 57:40
Yeah, I will check that out. Actually, as soon as I'm off this podcast episode with you, I'm actually going to check it out. Probably going to order it off Amazon or or wherever because I I actually have yeah, like I was saying, and you know what's funny? I actually Brian Gallagher is in the movie Camp Dread, and he's I'm actually a friend of his, and he he's a terrific guy. I'm not sure what role he plays in Camp Dread, but I remember he he actually shared a photo on set, and it was of Eric Roberts with a butterfly.

Harrison Smith 58:09
Yes,

Dave Bullis 58:10
And I was like Brian, what do you what movie is this? And he's like, I don't want to talk too much about it, but he's like, this is just you know Eric Roberts you know with this butterfly. I said, okay.

Harrison Smith 58:19
Brian plays John Hill in the film, who is a former slasher star, who's now on the convention circuit kind of thing, and he's been called back by his former director, where they were always at loggerheads while they were shooting this franchise in the 1980s. So Brian is now older and wiser, and comes back and kind of sees through what what this guy wants to do. Like Brian is not very supportive of what's of what's going on at at this camp, and it's pretty cool. I don't want to give away too many of the secrets because the ending is is a really good ending.

Dave Bullis 58:55
Very cool. So I I won't won't press you on that one because I want to see it myself.

Harrison Smith 59:00
So if you like it, please let me know what you think, and please be honest.

Dave Bullis 59:03
Oh, I will. We'll do. We'll do, Harrison. You know, and you know, you followed that up with Zombie Killer's Elephant Graveyard.

Harrison Smith 59:09
Yeah.

Dave Bullis 59:10
So you know, again, I you know, when you were writing this, you know, did you want to do something completely different, or you know, because I mean, you know, this is probably, I mean, again, I haven't seen Camp Tread yet, but I mean, it it seems different than everything else you've done to that.

Harrison Smith 59:24
It is, yeah, it's it's pretty def different. It's look to to be really you know quite frank. When I was brought the project, I tried to talk the investor for an hour out of doing it. He came to me and he said, "I want to make a horror film. I'm like, okay. He goes, I think you're the guy to do it. That's what I'm told. I'm like, okay, and we'll make you a good one. What is it? And he said, well, want to make a zombie movie? I'm like, no, you don't. He's like, yes, I do. And I said, no, you do not. I said, you wanted to make a zombie film about five years ago. Not want to do it now. The market is saturated. He's like, well, Harrison, you know, I want you to do it. If you don't want to do it, I'm going to find somebody to do it. So, look, we all have bills to pay and lights to keep on. So, I did it. I wrote a script for him that had to incorporate the sport of paintball. Now, how you do that without being laughed off the screen? Zombies and paintball. I think we managed that. We used it very organically as a training mechanism for these young orphans that were left behind, and we gave a film that had a very new and and fresh origin story for why these zombies are returning, and so good that Z Nation copied us because my zombies are generated from the results and the side effects of fracking from the natural gas and shale industry, and Z Nation stole that right from us, and I know they did because we had this way before, and the copyright proves it. And not only that, but I was in a pitch session with some people that went on to make Z Nation, and that's what they used.

Dave Bullis 1:01:12
So they basically just said, "Hey, you know, we have a similar idea, or did they say, "Hey, did you ever see?

Harrison Smith 1:01:17
They said anything. I said, "I never said anything, and all of a sudden, somebody sends me an episode of Z Nation where they said, "Look, the the fracking industry is causing zombies. I'm like, "Yeah, I wonder where the hell they got that.

Dave Bullis 1:01:28
You know, did you ever bump into somebody from Z Nation? Say, "Hey,

Harrison Smith 1:01:32
No, not yet. But I'll I'll be bumping into them. I'm sure you know in L.A. probably after April. Yeah, and I'll be like, "Yeah, you fairly stole it. You know what I mean? Like that's fine. You know, I mean, we-it's not like we copyrighted the issue that they can't use it. You know, but it just shows that we were on the right track because they took it, and we were the first.

Dave Bullis 1:01:53
So when when you said you found the producer, you know, he approached you with this project. Was that because of all your past, you know, past success, or was that because your people from your network were the ones recommending you?

Harrison Smith 1:02:04
He had done his research on me as a filmmaker, and he also knew that I wasn't going to rob him blind. You know, a lot of these guys that want to get these movies made, they take them to people that have like two or three producers, and instantly the producers pad the budget with their producer fees. So we made zombie killers for just around a million bucks to make this movie the legitimate LA way would have been three to 5 million. No, I don't know. I mean, I think the best thing is is that you you just have your reputation, and that is you're making movies. Like that's it. You you can go onto IMDb, and a lot of these people, you know, I call them IMDb whores because they they have like you know five pages of IMDb stuff, and a lot of it is just bogus, you know, filler that they post on there. If you go on my IMDb, it's very simple. What I've produced is there. You don't see 20 things in pre production or in development, what I've done is there, and what I have in pre-production is actively being worked on in pre-production. So I think when people see that and they go, "Okay, you're not trying to blow smoke up our ass, that helps. So you know, we we get movies made. That's that's the difference. You you come to me with a million bucks or under a million, we will get the movie made, and we will make a good movie. It will look good. It will get great distribution. All my films have solid distribution with great titles: Anchor Bay, RGL Entertainment. You know, Image. We've done well, and and that's really what it comes down to. Well done is better than well said, and that's the way you have to operate in this business. Anybody can talk, and I've I've taught people that don't go to an investor and tell them, oh, this is going to make $500 million and it's going to be the next this. Don't tell them that. Just tell them the straight up, and that is filmmaking is a very volatile business, and it's probably the worst investment that anybody with expendable cash can put into, you have a better chance of making your money back by going to Atlantic City and putting your money on the roulette wheel and getting something back than you do making a profit on a film. And although many people say, "Well, I would never tell them that, that is the honest answer. The real answer, or the the fluffed up answer that people give, is, "Oh, it's going to do this, and we're going to make this. You don't know. You have no idea what a film is going to do. You know, look look at what happened when that guy shot up the theater with The Dark Knight Rises. That cost that that picture money. Now a lesser film wouldn't have survived something like that. But because you know it's The Dark Knight Rises, yeah, took a hit, but it's going to still make its money. You don't know what's going to happen, or or how the political or economic climate of the country is going to change by the time your film is ready for release. Anything can happen. You never guarantee an investor their money back. You tell them it's a risk. Then that's why it's called an investment. Otherwise, it would be a guarantee. It's not a guarantee. Nothing is guaranteed in this industry. You could have your star die halfway through the film. How do you know what's going to happen? A tornado could wreck your set. You don't know, so if you're honest with them, they respect that. I mean, my first investor, he told me, said, "Kid, you're you're talking yourself right out of the film. I said, "No, I'm just being upfront with you. You should know that I'm I'm telling you the truth that you can trust me on this, you know. And and that's that's the best way I operate. I mean, I I never tell them this is going to make 500 million, 200 million, 20 million. How the hell do I know that? I don't know anything about that.

Dave Bullis 1:05:30
Yeah, and that is true, Arison. You know, you know Jason Brewbaker, who works with Distributor. You know, he he often says that. He says, you know, you can't guarantee this is going to get into Sundance. You can't guarantee it's going to go into slam dance. No. So you know

Harrison Smith 1:05:44
You could have the greatest star in the world. I mean, I could get Brad Pitt to. I mean, I can't. But if I did get Brad Pitt to even do something for free for me, how do I know that movie's going to make money? You know, how do I know that you know people aren't tired of Brad Pitt? I mean, look, zombie killers. You know, I tried to tell my my investor, you're going to deal with zombie fatigue. The Redbox, all of them, they're they're going to be tired of this by the time this film is out. Now we've done well with zombie killers, but if this were made five six years ago, I think we would have done even better. But you have to try to know your market. I mean, zombie movies. I've written a piece on it. Why I made a zombie film, and that is, I wanted to try to do something legitimate and different, and most of all, good, which we did do. We made a good film, but the real problem with the zombie film is, is I still stand by it today. It's lazy filmmaking. Everybody makes a damn zombie movie because they think it's easy, you know. And really, the plot doesn't change. I mean, it's always about people surviving. That's all it is, you know. And and people like that. It's a comfortable routine. I mean, no matter how good The Walking Dead is, which I believe it is, I think it's well made and it's well produced. And I've said this a number of times in interviews. It's still the same damn thing every week. People argue and zombies attack. That's it. That's all it is, and that's fine if that's what you want from your horror.

Dave Bullis 1:07:04
You know, you mentioned zombie fatigue. I actually remember what I was going to say to you. Now, a friend of mine, she's actually been on the show as well. She actually had a zombie film. It was just a screenplay a couple years ago, and she went out to one of these pitch fest out in L.A. And before she was about to pitch. They, the the one person, put up their hand. You know, us stopped and just said, "Now before you begin, we don't want to hear any zombie pitches. And she said, "She goes, that's that that's what I'm about to pitch you. And she said, and the person said, "Well, we're gonna, you know, we're very sorry, but we're we're she's like we're we're not gonna hear any more zombie pitches because you know we're we're hearing them left, right, and center.

Harrison Smith 1:07:44
Sure, and there's reasons for that because everybody thinks you know look get a get a red camera and get 25 of your friends to spit goop out of their mouth and run around and rip shirts and you got a zombie movie. That's not how it works, and it it it gives off the illusion that they're just really easy to make, and they're not. But you know, and and I got flack because I wrote in one piece. I said that the zombie movie is kind of like the NASCAR of horror, and you know somebody's like, oh, so he thinks anybody who goes to NASCAR is stupid. No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is though, it goes around in a circle. You know where it begins. You know where it ends, and you you face it. You hope for a couple interesting crashes in between. That's it. You know what? What more can we do with zombies, Dave? What what more can we do other than stick them in space? What more can we do? How many spinoffs of The Walking Dead do we need? I mean, when you see these people on Twitter, oh my God, Sunday's coming. I wonder what's going to happen. I don't know. What do you think's going to happen? You think some zombies are going to bite some people? You you think somebody might die? I mean, the only thing that that show really does is who's going to be the next big cast member to die? Like that's it, right? That's all it is. Who's will will you know Daryl be killed off? Will Norman Reedus make it till next season. I mean, that's all it is. You know, it's it's kind of like a constant who shot Jr. kind of thing. That it just keeps you going to the next one. You know, so I don't know. I mean, if that's what people like, then what's wrong with that? They like it. Great. I mean, the movie's making far more money than Zombie Killers is. So I mean, the show is. So good luck to them, you know. I mean, if that's what people want, good for them.

Dave Bullis 1:09:24
Well, my my next idea, Harrison, is zombies in space. So they put they they put Jason in space. They put Jason in space. I'm gonna put I'm gonna have zombies in space, right? No, you know, a friend of mine who I used to a podcast with said he thinks zombies will have jumped the shark when they can fall in love, and then out came. Yeah, that's right. Warm bodies.

Harrison Smith 1:09:45
Yeah,

Dave Bullis 1:09:46
And and he was like, "There you go. We are officially done.

Harrison Smith 1:09:50
It is. It jumped the shark a long time ago. But I don't know if you know. Again, other than *Night of the Living Dead* and those films, what more can you do? It's you know. I mean, everybody says, "Oh, I love The Walking Dead because it's a soap opera. Well, why does horror have to be a soap? I don't know if I want my horror to be a soap opera. But if that's what you like, good for you, man. It's making money and it makes people happy. So if if they love it, good for them.

Dave Bullis 1:10:25
I still don't think that anybody, any you know, zombie films or even zombie TV shows. I mean, I I still love the original Dawn of the Dead. is my absolute favorite zombie film that I've ever seen by far and away. And it's just it's just because it just it feels like it just hit every important you know issue at the time, and also it's just entertaining as hell.

Harrison Smith 1:10:48
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. You know, it's it's just great.

Dave Bullis 1:10:52
And you know, I'm I'm a huge Romero fan anyway. But I don't I'm sorry I don't want to get sidetracked about talking about whatever Romero. But but you know I actually do want to talk to you. You know your upcoming film, Death House. Now I I know you probably can't talk too much about it because you know it's it's it's obviously it's still in the whole pre production process. But you know I saw the IMDb, and so far you have casted you know Danny Trejo, Robert England, Michael Berryman, Kane Hodder, Bill Moseley. You know I just imagine from a producing standpoint that it must be damn near impossible to get that accomplished because those guys are always working. You know what I mean? And just getting them all in the same time, it must be like one of those things where like all the stars have to align and the planets are coming into into you know.

Harrison Smith 1:11:38
Yeah, I'll I'll be able to give you. I have to go in about like five minutes.

Dave Bullis 1:11:42
Oh, okay.

Harrison Smith 1:11:42
Sorry about that. We've been on like an hour.

Dave Bullis 1:11:47
Yeah, we've actually been talking for an hour and 15 minutes.

Harrison Smith 1:11:49
I love it. I but I do have a commitment that I have to get to in a second. However, yeah, I mean, you you said it best about the stars aligning. You got to be getting these people at the right time, and the hardest part, Dave, with all of that is is ensemble casting. You know, it's it's it's one of those where Gunnar Hanson really wanted to get as many of these names in as he could, and a lot of people in in this industry knew Gunner, so it's it's hard, you know, to to get them all to the table and you know, make sure that everybody is feeling treated fairly, if that makes any sense. That that they all feel that they're being approached for the right reasons and not just for stunt casting or or things like that. And and believe me, none none of that was the case at all. We want to include as many of these luminaries as we can because I look at it as more than just that the media dubbed it the the expendables of horror. I look at it as more of it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world where you're you're taking some of these really great names who are not going to be around forever. I love Death House like 30 years from now to have people you know come back and look at it again and go, wow, these were you know some of the crown jewels of the genre at the time, and so you know we're trying to make it out of respect to the names. But I can tell you this: we have a damn good script, and the reason why I know that is I sent the script out to a number of film critics, respected and established horror trade magazines, that I told them, I said, listen. If you hate it, all I ask is you wait until the film is out, and then you can trash it all you want. But I'm giving you a scoop. Not a single one of them came back and said, "Oh my God, this is not good. They said, "If you make this script the way that you've written it, you got a winner, and that's how we're going to make it. So that's how confident I was in the script. And one of them was a prominent horror critic as well too, and I said, "I want you to be honest with me. If it's not good, or you feel that this has problems, I need to know. And that's how confident I was.

Dave Bullis 1:13:52
That's amazing that you're able to, you know, you know, not have any feedback. I guess you know what I mean. Like it's so good. You okay? If it's bad, tell me, and you hear nothing, right? So that I guess you know that has to, you know, that has to fill you with such confidence going forward that you're like, you know, I I know it's a damn good script, and now I have somebody else, you know, other people tell me it's a damn good script, so now it's like all engines forward.

Harrison Smith 1:14:17
Yes, and and you know, it's it's not even just confidence. It's just simply we're doing the right thing here. We're not making a gimmick movie. We're not making like some people think. If you can make this clear on your podcast, this isn't Michael Myers fighting Jason or Freddy Krueger. That's not what this is. These those are copyrighted characters. These are the actors who happen to play these people, but they're all in different roles, so it's not like you know Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein, where we're going to mash up all the monsters. That's not what we're doing here. So that's that's something I want clear. And then on on the second end of it, we're treating this as you know a really good commentary, you know on. This story, okay, and and and most of all, the genre. We're treating the genre with respect, and that's important because it's not just about throwing in a bunch of horror names and killing them off one by one. And Gunnar never wanted that. Gunner wanted something that was substantial and that it was a definite tip of the hat and a tip of a respectful tip of the hat to the genre to the horror genre.

Dave Bullis 1:15:22
Yeah, I'm I'm glad you said it, Harrison, because I remember reading when when when news of this broke on some of the sites. Remember some of the comments were like, "Oh my God, it's going to be Leatherface fighting Jason and and I and I I mean I knew because you know like you just said they're all different copyrighted characters and and getting getting all of the trademarks for those names and likenesses and all that that would be a a legal nightmare.

Harrison Smith 1:15:43
Couldn't do it. So you couldn't do it.

Dave Bullis 1:15:43
So I know you have to go. Somebody actually walked into your room there. I could see. It's but it's like a horror movie itself. Like oh my god, there's somebody behind you.

Harrison Smith 1:15:53
Like unfriended or something like that. Yeah.

Dave Bullis 1:15:55
Yeah. Yeah. They had unfriended, and there was also a scream on one of the screams too. They had the people were behind them. They couldn't see,

Harrison Smith 1:16:01
Right! And and Halloween Resurrection, they did that too, or something. But

Dave Bullis 1:16:05
Yeah, remember it was with when oh Busta Rhymes and Tyra Banks, right?

Harrison Smith 1:16:13
The Jaws, the Revenge of Slasher Films.

Dave Bullis 1:16:18
Harrison, I know you have to go, but before you go, where people find you out online?

Harrison Smith 1:16:22
Oh, you can find me online at my my company site, which is www.class85.com, and you can find me on Twitter, HarrisonSmith85, on on Twitter. I think that's my handle. I'm pretty sure I should look.

Dave Bullis 1:16:36
Yeah, yeah, I think that is. It is okay. Yeah,

Harrison Smith 1:16:40
I'm not really good with self promotion in that way, and yeah, I mean you can find all my films. They're everywhere. They're on Amazon. They're on iTunes, Hulu, pretty much everywhere. You can find them, and I've had plenty of people tell me that they're torrented like crazy. So, oh,

Dave Bullis 1:16:55
I actually have a Hulu account, so I'll check out I'll check out Camp Dread on Hulu.

Harrison Smith 1:16:59
I think Camp Dread's on Hulu. I know the fields and six degrees are definitely on Hulu as well, but yeah, and if not, I know that you can stream Camp Dread right off of Amazon.

Dave Bullis 1:17:09
All right, cool, awesome. I usually prefer the physical copy. I actually started going back and forth between digital media and physical media. Now, big

Harrison Smith 1:17:16
Physical media person, I like it on DVD.

Dave Bullis 1:17:19
Yeah, that that that's what I've I've come back to now. I'm like I'm making sure I get everything criterion like Blu-ray if I can, or you know now because I'm you know I'm always a little leery now about digital media, but that's a whole nother story, right?

Harrison Smith 1:17:34
Yes, it is. I I share your wariness,

Dave Bullis 1:17:35
Harrison Smith. I want to say thank you very much for coming on, and I wish you the best with with Death House.

Harrison Smith 1:17:40
Thank you, and we'll we'll give you some updates as we get moving on that. We start shooting april 4.

Dave Bullis 1:17:44
Oh, wow! So you're like you're you're like feeling the pressure right now.

Harrison Smith 1:17:49
Yeah,

Dave Bullis 1:17:50
Harrison. Again, I want to wish you the best of luck, and I look forward to hearing how how well it turns out.

Harrison Smith 1:17:56
Thank you, and thanks for having me on the show.

Dave Bullis 1:17:58
Oh, my pleasure, Harrison. Take care, buddy.

Harrison Smith 1:18:00
Have a good weekend.

Dave Bullis 1:18:01
You too. Bye bye.