IFH 824: The Screenwriting Secrets Every Indie Writer Needs to Know with Dan Benamor

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis

Dave Bullis 1:54
On this week's episode of the podcast, my guest's new film initiation, which he cowrote, is being distributed by gravitas ventures. We talk writing, working as a development executive, and so much more with guest, Dan Benamor. Hey, Dan, thanks a lot for coming on the show.

Dan Benamor 2:15
My pleasure.

Dave Bullis 2:15
So Dan, just to get started, you know, since you've listened to the show before, you know what the first question is going to be, and that question Dan is, you know, how did you get your start in the film industry?

Dan Benamor 2:27
Well, I mean, you know, for me, it's, I mean, I guess the real definitive moment was I came out here to LA and I got an internship with a production company, and then I was doing that for about six months, and I pretty much, you know, I ended up getting hired as a assistant, and then I got promoted from there, and eventually I became the head of development. So it was sort of, I mean, really, I guess if you broke it down, it would probably be when I just first got hired from an intern to actually being an assistant, and then it sort of snowballed from there.

Dave Bullis 3:02
Now, does that still work in a similar way? You know? Because, you know, things are always changing, and with with the changing face of distribution everything. Is it still that that that way, where you think interns are used as, sort of like that farm system, where they can be brought up within an agency?

Dan Benamor 3:19
My opinion on it, you know, was that, because I was at a small company where, basically, you know, the the principles of the company were right there, like, you know, you're dealing with them every day. And it wasn't, you know, I think that sometimes, if you go for an internship, you could get an internship with somewhere really cool, like, you know, like, say, for example, I got an internship at Lionsgate or something, right, some really big company like that, I would just be a guy, you know, one guy in this massive machine. I think in a scenario like that, it would be a little bit harder to have the trajectory that I ended up having a small company. Because at a smaller company, you interact directly with the principals. They get to know you and, you know, it's a more, it's a much more personal relationship. And so it's not, I don't think it says when it's a bigger machine, you know, I think you would might have a tougher time having any sort of, you know, upward mobility like that.

Dave Bullis 4:15
Now, so when you went in there, was that, was that your goal to be, to be hired, or did you have, maybe have another aspiration to, you know, to or another goal to maybe work for another company or, or maybe, you know, just go off on your own.

Dan Benamor 4:18
Yeah, I mean, I had no particular aspiration. I mean, I showed up here in LA with my buddy from film school, and we got an apartment in Hollywood. And basically, you know, for the first week, we went to the beach. But then after that, it was like, All right, what are we going to do? So I figured it would be worthwhile to try to learn, just learn as much as I could. And so I actually had a couple, I think I had, like, two or three different internships at the same time. And I just, you know, I had no real particular goal. I mean, I I've always my end game was always to be a writer. But I. You know, when I first got to LA, I just figured, as much as I can learn, it's all positive, so I just kind of showed up and, you know, and things, things took the course they took,

Dave Bullis 5:11
You know, and you know that that's great because, you know, because I've had friends to move to LA, and, you know, the things are the same thing to like they always felt guilty about not being outside, because they're like, look, it's a beautiful day out. The beach. Is down the street. What the hell are we doing inside? You know?

Dan Benamor 5:28
Yeah, yeah, for sure, man. I mean, the longer you're here too, the less you go

Dave Bullis 5:35
Until, until, like, somebody, like a relative or something, comes, right? And then you're like,

Dan Benamor 5:39
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, exactly.

Dave Bullis 5:43
So you know this, and since we're talking about this part of your career, I want to ask, you know, because some of the people that have been on, I didn't get a chance to ask them this, but what are some of the skill sets that did you think that you had at this point that really helped you stand out and really help them? You know, your bosses and your managers that they, you know, they they saw you, and they saw your skill set, and they, they wanted to keep you. So do you any, like, any of the skills off hand that you think that really helped you, you know, get that promotion?

Dan Benamor 6:14
You know, it was funny, because I started as an intern, and at the end I was in charge of the interns. So I would, you know, I would kind of manage the interns. I would, you know, me and other people at the company, of course, but I think primarily that was part of my job. So I would kind of see, you know, you would give some interns, like, you give them a script. And you know, there were times when I was really busy and I genuinely needed to have, like, a really in depth, creative discussion about a script, and I didn't have time to read it, I would give it to an intern to read, and then I'd get up, you know, and say, Hey, give you that script. What do you think? And you really it was very noticeable, and it's actually interesting. So now, a couple years have passed since I was at that job. The guys that were my interns that I could tell had something extra. They've had continued success, like they've transitioned to other jobs where they've they, you know, some of them have become produced filmmakers. Some of them work at other companies now. And you know, you can tell the guys who basically had confidence that had an opinion, that's pretty much what it boils down to. You know, if I got up and I would ask an intern, like, Hey, would you think of that script? And he was just, like, as, all right, you know, like that. That's a that's not really what you're looking for, you know, you're looking for somebody who has confidence as an opinion and also is, like, has a strong opinion, you know, like, so if I like something, and you know, the intern that I'm checking in with him, and he didn't like it, and, and I say, Well, you know, I thought, you know, I thought this worked and that worked, and he kind of backs off his opinion. I think that is also another thing that, like your opinion, is your opinion. And it's important, I, in my opinion, to be strong in your convictions. Because once you waffle, you kind of lose credibility, you know? So it's, it's stuff like that, I think, and then also just the basics, right? Like just being responsible, like you're, if you're given a job to do, do it to the best of your ability. Be on time, be pleasant to deal with. You know? It's that, that type of stuff really important, too.

Dave Bullis 8:18
So would you ever sit down with a lot of these interns and go over things like this is how you read a screenplay. And these are the things to look for, you know, would you do stuff like that?

Dan Benamor 8:27
Yeah. I mean, when you would first bring them in, we usually try to get a coverage sample to show that they knew how to read a script, basically. And, you know, I mean, we, we had our own template and stuff like that, but that, you know, typically, if somebody's coming in to be an intern at a production company, we want them to have some reading experience, because we don't want them starting from absolute scratch. I mean, then then they have no real place to have a strong creative opinion. So usually, we try to find somebody who had some sort of background in reading scripts. Maybe they, you know, whatever that might be. And, and hopefully, you know, start from there.

Dave Bullis 9:07
So was there ever, you know, a time when you, you know, you read a screenplay and maybe you loved it, and you wanted to get a feel for all these interns, and maybe you gave it to them, and there was a point where they said, hey, you know, Hey, boss, we really didn't like this. And then the and then maybe you said, like, hey, yeah, I love that, actually. And, and, was ever there, was there ever a time like that?

Dan Benamor 9:28
Sure, yeah. I mean, always. I mean, that's but that's why, yeah, that's what you need, you know, readers for basically, to kind of check you so you can get a sense, especially if it's something a little bit out there where you're like, you know, I think this is great, but it's pretty, pretty weird. You know, you need a lot of times, you need that extra voice to kind of, you know, get a sense of how it's playing. So often in situations like that, I would actually have more than one person read it. I'd have like, five people read it, and then I'd be able to look at, sort of, the general response and, you know, compare and see what was. Consistent and stuff like that.

Dave Bullis 10:12
Yeah, and that's two very good takeaways, too. Is, you know, one, have confidence, and two, have an opinion. You know, that's very important to mention Dan, because I, you know, just to everyone listening, I, you know, I think that's very important to in the general in the film industry, is that you have to have your confidence, and you have to have that opinion, which, you know, if you're as a director, you need that, or as a writer, as you know, you need that point of view from where to tell your story.

Dan Benamor 10:36
Yeah, and that's, and that, you know, it's, it's a funny thing, because it comes back on you in so many different ways. That if you project confidence, and it's even on the page, you know, if you project confidence on the page, and you project confidence when you then later go into a development meeting or whatever, you can kind of sway people, like people want to buy into that confidence, like, you know, somebody sitting down to read a script, if that first couple of pages is written with a really strong authorial voice, they'll kind of come with you, you know. And if you as the writer have a really strong take on the story and feel really strongly about it and can back it up and all that stuff, people you know kind of want to take that journey with you, and they want to trust your credibility as a writer. So it's so important. I think once you it's not to say that, like, oh, you know, don't be being flexible. It's not about that, but it's just it. You got to be confident what you're doing. Because if you're not, and there's no, no one else will ever be confident in you, you have to be common yourself number one, and then other people can basically trust you. And you know, in our our business, it's so tough already that if you don't project that confidence, I think it's it makes it way tougher.

Dave Bullis 11:47
So what are some of the things that you notice, like, when we were talking about confidence on the page, you know, what are some of the things that usually jump out at you? And you can usually say, like, hey, you know that writer, he believes he or she believes in her own, her own writing?

Dan Benamor 12:02
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, I think it's a lot of different things. I think, I think one thing for sure would be starting out with a storytelling sort of approach, where you're not, you're not waiting for us like you're the story's going and we're either coming with you or we're not, but you're not going to hang around and hold our hand. You know, I think that that is something you'll definitely see in professional scripts, and it's a very noticeable difference from when you're reading a script, maybe by a more beginning writer, you can tell the level of confidence in terms of a shorthand of communicating information. You know where it's it's using, it's asking a lot of us as the audience, like, Hey, you, you got to keep up with me, kind of thing. And I think that you, when you, when you read something like that, it actually sort of galvanizes you as the reader, because you are suddenly empowered to, like, figure out what's going on and and it, it just makes it a more dynamic experience. The worst thing you can do is is, you know, have something where it's just spelling it out to you. You know, in every way, whether that's dialog or just the the slowness of the presentation of information, or presenting old ideas as if they are new ideas, you know. And there's, there's, you know, the audience now is so savage that it's really, you know, there's a lot that can be done in shorthand. And if you're not using that shorthand, I think that's where you can kind of get into a scenario where it doesn't come across with the same level of confidence on the page.

Dave Bullis 13:43
Yeah, I agree. The audience is very savvy now. I mean, you know, sometimes I'm watching movies and I see, you know, cliches and and I'm always thinking to myself, you know, if they I wonder if they're if the writer, director, whoever it was, I'm always wondering, you know, why didn't they try something else? You know what I mean? Because you know, you know. Now, Dan, what I do is, with movies, I'm always dissecting them in my head, not even, not even just, you know, like a piece of paper, but in my head, I'm always thinking to myself, you know, is this a setup? Is this is where you know, what would the payoff be? You know, you know. I wonder what the inciting incidents gonna be, and when it finally comes there, you know, you don't. I mean, I mean, do you do the same thing? Do you sit, you sit, you know, when you watch movies now, are you just dissecting them and sort of almost trying to getting ahead of the story to see if you could, you know, predict what the writer was thinking?

Dan Benamor 14:27
Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty much ruined as an audience member at this point. I mean, I remember, I remember I used to when I was, when I was in college. I would go my buddy, and we would sneak, you know, we would go see one movie and then sneak around the theater, and we would do that for like, 12 hours, and we would see every movie that was in theater. And I could actually sit and watch literally, I watched literally anything. But now, you know, I'm such a such an awful audience member, I'll find something, you know, like, you'll click something new on Netflix two minutes if there's something there. I just, I'm watching and I'm just like, Ah man, you know, I'll turn it off. Like I'm I've become such a terrible Audience Member exactly because of what you're talking about, because we were in it so much that it's like, you stop consuming it. Kind of, is like a regular consumer. You become a lot more sort of, I guess, hypocritical when you're when you're watching stuff, because you're always thinking about the design of it and things like that.

Dave Bullis 15:27
Yeah, I know what you mean. Because sometimes, like, you know, I watch movies, or even take a trailer now, and I'll say, Let me guess what happens in this movie. And sometimes I, you know, I'll say it out in front of my friends, and they're like, how the hell do you would you get that from seeing this? And I'm just like, because I just, you know what I mean, you see that stuff. You see those points. You only mean, like, those, you know. Okay, well, this is obviously last part of the movie. I know this sounds a little bit redundant, but the first time I ever had the not the first time, but the most time that sticks out my mind was when Paul Blart Mall Cop came out, and I saw the trailer, and a friend of mine went to do a screening of it, and I told him exactly what I think happens in the base based on the trailer. And he goes, Wow, you're really good at this. And I now, I Now granted, obviously we don't go see Paul Bart Malkoff for the writing, but, but, you know, that's, I was just bringing that up as a point of reference,

Dan Benamor 16:19
Yeah. I mean, in general, you know that goes back to the authorial conference. Thing, right? Is like, assume, when you're starting the story, the audience is ahead of you in the same way what you're talking about, like, if you set it up and there they are going to be predicting a certain storyline. So you the creator, you got to kind of know that, and you sort of knowing that you have to give them something that's at least a little bit different, because otherwise it's going to be exactly like what you're talking about. If, if the if the audience is able to predict it, like beat by beat, then you're screwed. I mean, that's really, you know, that's a really tough it's a tough place to get away from if you're in that scenario. So you got to figure some sort of wrinkle that makes it a little bit different.

Dave Bullis 17:04
Yeah, very true. And, you know, I actually, you know, just as we talk about all this writing and everything else, I want to, you know, get, get into your writing, you know, so did you always, you know, have the inclination that you wanted to be a writer director?

Dan Benamor 17:18
Well, no, so I, I have, I've directed one movie and some shorts. And then, you know, for me, the experience of directing my movie, which is called betrayed, pretty much told me that I would prefer to just be the writer, which, you know, I enjoyed it, but it's just so all consuming. So I give a lot of credit to my cousin Oren, who directed our movie initiation. It's, it's really an immersive thing that you kind of just it. You give up. You got to put a lot of yourself into it. So for me, I prefer being the writer. I mean, the experience that we had making this film, it's kind of like exactly what I love about being a writer is that I was able to come in and contribute to the story, and then they went off and made the movie. And I watched the movie. I mean, that's, you know, that's like, so that's, that's when it's cool being a writer, because it's literally, like, you wrote something on a piece of paper, and then you get to see that it exists. And, you know, it's pretty, pretty neat.

Dave Bullis 18:18
Yeah, very true, you know, cuz I, you know, I looked dry. MTB, I did see you have the short, then you, you did direct portrayed. And, you know, I wanted to, you know, just ask, you know, what was the biggest difference that you found when you when you had to direct? I mean, was there any, like, you know, challenges that you weren't anticipating, or, you know, did, did you just say, you know, what I prefer to be a writer?

Dan Benamor 18:40
I mean, I think that when you're gonna direct, I mean, I very much. I love working with actors. I think working with actors is so fun. And you know, if I ever end up directing again, it will be because of that, the part that I felt, you know, you kind of have to be all in or not in at all. For me, with the was the visual esthetic. I had a really great cinematographer on my film betrayed, and, you know, he was really good about, like, basically checking me and being like, Hey, that's not gonna look good. Let's do it like this. You know, when you're, when you're familiar writer, you don't necessarily think in that visual, in the way that that a director can to draw the same tools. You know, if you're, if you're someone who's constantly directing stuff and your aspiration is absolutely to direct, then you're going to be doing the same study that you and I do for writing, right where we we know it's so in and out, and we know all the tools and tricks and things like that. I think that you know, and obviously you you want you lean on your cinematographer as a director, of course. But I just felt like, for me, I enjoy, sort of trying to master this one facet of it, as opposed to, like trying to, I felt like it would be kind of a jack of all trades situation if I tried to the directing thing as much as I like it. I don't, I don't have the same, you know, energy with it as I do with the writing.

Dave Bullis 20:16
Yeah, I, you know, when I, I haven't directed anything for like, five years. But you know, I find that it's not because I don't want to, it's just because I've learned, Dan, that the writing has to be not good, but great. You know what I mean? Before you're going to do any project, I've learned that it has to be you have to like you yourself, whoever you know, for everyone listening to this, if you're writing something you yourself have to get so excited about it. You're like, how the hell is this not a movie made already, even if you know what I mean, and you have to be so and that's something that I've learned. So what I've been doing is I took one step forward to take two. I'm sorry I took one step back to take two steps forward. And basically, what I mean by that is I just wanted to make sure that I got better at things. And during this whole five year period, I mean, I've actually produced stuff. I've actually had a graphic novel get made, you know, stuff like that. And, but, but it's really, it all comes back to, you know, making sure that writing is phenomenal. And you know, when you when you talk about writing, I can, you know, I can hear you get excited about it in your voice. And that's good, exactly you need that, right? So I wanted to ask you dent when, whenever you're writing, you know what I mean? Like, is there any things that you keep in mind to, you know, make sure that you're always sort of going forward, if you know what I mean?

Dan Benamor 21:36
Yeah, there's a million things. I mean, that's the part that kind of, it kind of sucks about the more you learn about it, right? Because, I mean, when, when, when I started, you know, you would, it was a little bit more free because you were just like, yeah, man, you know, it's once you learn so much about it, then there's so many different things that you got to be thinking about. And so it actually makes, you know, once you actually get on the page, I'm good, but the planning, the planning stage, you know, there's a lot that you have to be thinking about, and it helps to just do it a million times. You know, I'm very grateful for the time that I was a development executive, because I basically, you know, developed, I mean, dozens of scripts, and we made a bunch of those movies too. So I really got to see the whole process many times, and so that that helps, because you sort of get almost like a muscle memory for it. But, yeah, you got so much stuff you have to think about. You got, you know, theme and character and dialog and arc and structure and mood, and it's, yeah, there's a lot to kind of manage.

Dave Bullis 22:44
You know, one thing I've learned, and you know, like you said, you know, the more you you learn, the more you know, the more you the more you do, the more you learn, and the more you learn, you know it you realize how complex this gets. And you know, I've read every screenwriting book on the market. I literally, you know, you can't see it because it's podcast, but I have every screenwriting book out there, and I've read it from cover to cover. You know, I've done what everybody else does. You start with Screenplay by Syd field, then you work up to save the cat, then you get story by McKee, you know, any sort of and then you sort of branch off from there, if you read those three works, because, you know, everyone sort of talks about it. But one thing I've learned over the years is that everything comes back to character. You know what I mean? Like everything, you know, when we talk about scenes, when we talk about favorite parts of a movie, when we talk about this or that, it always stems from a character.

Dan Benamor 23:36
I mean, it's very true. Yeah. I mean, I would always say, when we were, you know, when I was a development executive and we tried to put a movie together. There was pretty in every movie we made that actually ended up getting made. There was always a moment where we would attack somebody that was meaningful, whether that was an actor or director or whatever, and that person, when they would come in, it wasn't like they said, you know why I'm doing this movie? Because I love the, you know, the midpoint, like no, nobody ever said that. It's, it was always about whatever the emotion was of it, or whatever the character thing was that we were doing. That was what they would key in on and say, Man, I, you know, I really that meant something to me, and I got company out of that. So, yeah, nobody, it's, it's all, you know, the plot is informed by the character, and then they have to, they have to code, not only coexist, but actually sort of be intrinsic to each other. Like the the best movies are movies where the plot has to happen because of the character. Like those two, they can't exist outside of each other.

Dave Bullis 24:41
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's very true. And I think the mistake a lot of writers make, and I've made this mistake, you know, more times than I can count, is, you know, developing a plot and trying to plunk characters in said plot, if you know what I mean, yeah. And I think when, when you know, when you try to reverse that, when you try to reverse engineer, or something like that. I. Think that's where you sort of get stuck,

Dan Benamor 25:02
Yeah!

Dave Bullis 25:04
So, you know, when I, you know, your new movie initiation, it's being, you know, distributed by gravitas ventures. Congratulations, by the way, that's freaking huge.

Dan Benamor 25:14
Yeah, no, we're very excited, you know. And we're very proud of the film, yeah.

Dave Bullis 25:20
I mean, that is, you know, absolutely phenomenal. And I wanted to ask, you know, where, so, where did your idea come from for the film? You know, did? Was this an idea that came to you, or was this just something that you know, that you've been sort of working on for years?

Dan Benamor 25:35
So this, this is actually something that, you know, my cousin Oren, he had the initial idea. He had a script. And he basically, you know, we being cousins, we both live in LA, I would always come hang with him. And, you know, he mentioned he was working on this. And at one point he, you know, he and I talked about working on it together. And so basically, I came in and I co wrote it. I, I, you know, we, we ended up writing, revising that script and working on it together through to the end and and he directed the film and edited it and produced it. And so I this was a situation where, basically I came in, where there was already a product that existed, and I just gave my sort of creative energy to it. And I think that we both kind of complemented each other in that process. And you know that that was, that was the process played out on this one.

Dave Bullis 26:27
So for those, for those listening who aren't familiar with the film, could you give us a brief explanation about about the film Dan?

Dan Benamor 26:35
Yeah, so it's basically a group of strangers are kidnapped and they're taken to this kind of mysterious house, and they basically come to realize that they've been kidnapped to take place in an initiation ritual for a cult. And to be initiated into this cult, you have to fight somebody to the death. And so these people that are complete strangers to each other, they're just random people, and they're thrown into this insane situation, and they have to try to figure out a way to survive. And that's what the movie's about,

Dave Bullis 27:07
Very cool. And it's actually cool that's coming out right around this time, you know, this fall, Halloween time. You know what? I mean, it sounds like the movie, it's ripped out allied way, yeah.

Dan Benamor 27:17
I mean, you know, it's, it's, what's, what's been cool about it is that it sort of, it toes the line between action and horror. So, you know, we've been, we've been really happy to see that a lot of horror websites have reviewed the film and given us nice notices. Because I think that it's, it's something that's a fun movie for people that like horror movies, but it's also a fun movie for, you know, an action fan, thriller, that type of thing.

Dave Bullis 27:41
Yeah, that is very cool. And, you know, because, I mean, whenever you could see the horror, you know, horror sites, whenever they can get so excited about something, you know, it's always awesome. Because, like we were talking about with all the films, you know, that we've seen an internet and, you know, being able to sort of, you know, Spot the story, you know, they've seen ton of horror films. So, you know, when you can get them on board of something, you know what? I mean, it's like, okay, great. Now you got something, you know, it could have, if they like it. I mean, what? What's the general public gonna think, you

Dan Benamor 28:09
know what? I mean, right? Yeah, no. And we've been, I mean, we've, you know, we have shown the film to a lot of people at this point, and you know, enough people where it's a funny thing your relationship with your own work, right? I mean, anytime you show something to somebody that knows you, you're kind of like, well, you know, they might, they might just tell me to be nice so they thought like, but we, we've shown it to so many people, and then obviously, I think we have, you know, on IMDb, there's some, some reviews linked and and, you know, bloody discussing gave us nice review. And we, you know, these are people that have no reason to tell us one way or the other, right? So when, when somebody that has no relationship to you tells you they got something out of your work, then that that's, that's, that's big, because then you figure, okay, well maybe, you know, maybe it doesn't work, you know. And this is a sort of more objective proof of that.

Dave Bullis 29:01
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, you know, I see that on the IMDB page. It's up on amazon video right now. Is there? Is there any other places that that people could find the movie?

Dan Benamor 29:13
Yeah, it's all over. It's on, it's on iTunes, on Amazon, it's on PlayStation, it's on, it's on a lot of cable, on demand providers. I was in, I was home in Baltimore, and I saw it on my parents, you know, cable at their house. It's on voodoo, it's, it's on the majority of video on demand providers.

Dave Bullis 29:36
And I will link to that everyone in the show notes. I will make sure to link to all those places that you can check out, the initiation, you know, I wanted to ask, you know, also about the initiation, you know, Dan, what's, what's one thing you want to be able to take away from the film? I mean, I mean, you know, did you want to leave, have people leave going, you know, Damn, that was intense. Or it was there any other sort of theme that you wanted people to walk away from? Walk away the moment from

Dan Benamor 30:03
A friend of mine just watched it, and that was pretty much what emailed me. He said that was intense. The the you know, what was cool about it for me was that I think we succeeded at something that I'm always trying to do, which is take with the genre movie and basically invest it with a real meaning, meaning that it's not just kind of a empty genre exercise, but actually it has a has a message and a point to it that is emotional, that is, you know, I mean, this movie is basically about the idea that no matter what situation you're kind of put into, if you have this sort of inner strength to defeat it, then no one there's nothing anyone can do to you. And you know, we sort of explore that in a lot of different ways in the film. But it was something that, you know meant something to me, and I think that it gives the film a weight that, you know, if we sort of just relied on all the genre stuff, it wouldn't have that same weight to it. So that's that was the thing to me, that I was most satisfied with,

Dave Bullis 31:12
You know, just as a side note, you know, screenwriting professor once told me a great piece of screenwriting advice, and that was when you're sitting down to, you know, brainstorm a concept or whatever, for for your movie. He said, This is a question you ask yourself, what do you want audiences to leave? What do you want audiences when they leave, to take away from this movie? Do you want them to say, oh, my god, that was hilarious, we know. And he said that helps guide you throughout the process when you're making the movie,

Dan Benamor 31:42
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, you gotta, you gotta do it for a reason. There's just too much, there's too much stuff out there. This, all this, it tastes too long. It's too much of a pain in the ass, if you're not doing it out of some strong impulse of and it doesn't necessarily always have to be heavy, you know. I mean, we're like, right now, we, my cousin, I, are talking about doing another film together, and and we're, we're talking about doing one that's a little bit more sort of light, at least in the tone. And you know that that can be fine too, but it's just whatever that impulse is that you have that makes it interesting and exciting for you. You know, you got to really feel strongly about that and kind of and key on that throughout the whole thing, you know, because that's what you want the person who watches it to have that same feeling.

Dave Bullis 32:29
Yeah, that's exactly right. And, you know, I think, you know, when we can finally convey that, you know, I mean, like, I think you're like, for instance, Quentin Tarantino, whenever he writes, I'm thinking, that's the same thing that people pull away from. Is the same mood he's in, you know what I mean, particularly, like, hey, for late I have a, you know, that's sort of like a, it was the same, but it was different for him. And I sort of think that, you know, you could sort of pull away what he what, you know, what he puts into the script, if you know what I mean. And, and, you know, I wanted to ask, you know, Dan, as we know, we were talking about your future projects, I wanted just to ask, you know, what is a typical writing day for you look like?

Dan Benamor 33:09
Man, it's just, if I can just get some time, it's really, time is the most important thing. I mean, I I'm not for me. It's not like, I'll write anywhere. I'll write it anytime. I don't need to, like, you know, consult the muse or anything like, I can just sit down and bang some stuff out. But I think that I have a tough time. I'm sort of an impatient person, which I think is probably a pretty important part of anything except that I have had a will have is down, you know, I'm just, I'm not, I'm not patient to, like, just let things come as they may. Like, I want to get stuff done. And, you know, kind of, that's always my ethos. So when I the planning part of it, that's the part that takes forever. Like, I'll do research, you know, on initiation, I did research into military stuff on other projects I've written, you know, I'll read like, three books about it. But once it's time to write, and I actually have figured out the story, I'm so I have such a burning desire to just get it out of me and get it onto the page, it's almost to the point where, like, I feel like I'm gonna lose it if I don't that, it comes very fast, you know. And I almost, I almost will consciously try to set aside, you know, just a couple of days or whatever, where I know it's going to just be kind of flowing out of me and and just be able to kind of bang pages out because, you know, that's, I don't, I don't, yeah, I mean, it's just a difference in process, right? For me, the the real cracking of the story comes in the planning, the actual writing is just putting the planning on a piece of paper. So the writing itself is the fun part. The The hard part is the is coming up with the actual story.

Dave Bullis 34:49
Yes, I could not agree more, that's something that I found, too, is that, you know, because once, once I have an outline or a treatment or anything, you don't mean, like any even if it's a piece of paper with. Some ideas, you know, scribbled down on it that looks like the journal from seven, you know, just something. I know where I'm going, you know what I mean. And you know, the biggest part that was always, you know where the plot is going. But then I've realized always comes back to where the characters start, you know I mean, so we know when the when the when the script starts, is where the movie starts. So then, where do we find our characters when the script starts? You know, you know what I mean. Or do they have something? Do they not have something? You know, what's their desire? You know, what's what's their intention, what's their obstacle?

Dan Benamor 35:32
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Dave Bullis 35:37
So, Daniel, I mean, look, on average, how often, how many hours a day do you write? I mean, is it like, sometimes, like a 30 minutes, then sometimes, maybe it's like two hours.

Dan Benamor 35:46
I think that on a on a day when I actually can really, you know, when I have nothing going and I can really just sit and focus on writing, I'll usually, I think after like three or four hours, you got to stop. And I've done it, I've I've had times where I'll fit and I'll write for like, you know, I'll write the whole day. But I think as a general rule, unless it's something where I've gone insane and I have to, you know, I think that three or four hours of focused writing after that, it starts to become diminishing returns. Just your brain, kind of, it takes a certain sort of brain muscle, I think, to come up with this stuff. And after a while you start like, you don't have that same because, you know, I mean, it's sort of what we were talking about before. Like, each scene that you write, you really got to sit and think about it and think about like, okay, you know, here's the regular version of this scene. Why is this scene going to be somewhat cooler than the regular version. Like, how can I make it different? How can I make it different, not just in what happens, but in how the characters interact with each other? What's the visual thing that I'm doing in this scene with the reversal in this scene? So there's so much like mental effort that goes into it, that I think after three or four hours, I got to stop. So for me, a good three or four hours of writing and then maybe some research, you know, in the afternoon, or a lot of prep for the next day, you know, like, okay, and tomorrow I know I gotta write these themes just kind of what I'm thinking, and at least have a little bit of a roadmap of the actual precise execution, and then you can kind of flow into the next day.

Dave Bullis 37:19
Yeah, that's kind of like, which I think Stephen King maybe said that. He said, basically he, he ends on a high note that way, in the next day comes in, he knows exactly where he's gonna go, and he keeps that flow going on every day.

Dan Benamor 37:31
Yeah, I tend to do that as well.

Dave Bullis 37:36
Great minds think a like, you know, and that's great advice, by the way. So, you know, Dan, in closing, you know, is there maybe anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to or any sort of parting thoughts you want to, want to add to this conversation?

Dan Benamor 37:51
No, I mean, you know, I think the thing that's cool to me about this project specifically, and I think is relevant. So what we're talking about, and probably to a lot of people listening your podcast, you know, this is something that any of us could do. You could you you could have made this movie. You know, anybody listening to this could have made this movie. It's a movie that we made for a low budget but, you know, one of the reasons that it's been so cool getting some nice reviews from some heart Psych is that they basically said, yeah, it's a low budget movie, but the sort of ingenuity and the effort that went into it and that that made it. It didn't, it doesn't feel low budget, you know, like it's not, it's the point being that there's nothing stopping any of us from just going and making a movie. And not just a movie that we sort of is a naval gaming for our own edification, but a movie that anybody can sit down and watch and enjoy at a real movie, you know, even if you have to do it for a low budget, you know. And I think that this is sort of, to me, a good case study of that, that we actually went, made this movie, got it distributed by a very legitimate distributor. It's out everywhere, you know. And you know, we we've gotten a lot of nice responses to the movie. So we do think that the movie works. And, you know, we we just look forward to hopefully having people discover it, you know. And and maybe we can go make another

Dave Bullis 39:11
You know. And that's, that's phenomenal. And, you know, honestly, Dan, I'm gonna make sure to check out the the initiation. I will everyone. I will link that in the show notes, Dan, we're gonna find you out online.

Dan Benamor 39:24
I mean, you know, just, just stuff with the movie, I'm not, I'm, like, the worst person ever for all this. I don't have a Twitter. I'm not a social media, dude, but the initiation movie, we have a website, we have a Facebook page, and obviously it's on iTunes, it's on Amazon and all these other platforms.

Dave Bullis 39:43
Dan, I want to say thank you very much for coming on.

Dan Benamor 39:45
My pleasure. A good conversation.

Dave Bullis 39:49
Oh, my pleasure, sir. Take care.

Dan Benamor 40:17
Take care. Bye, bye.