IFH 826: How to Turn a Script Into a Movie Without Hollywood’s Help with Chris Jay

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:54
On this week's episode, our guest is the front man and founder of The Rock Band army of freshmen. He's an actor and screenwriter his comedy film The bet releases this coming Tuesday, July the 26th 2016 and it'll be available on everywhere we available on, you know, Hulu. It'll be available on Google Play Store, iTunes Store, Xbox, PlayStation, all that good stuff. With guest, Chris Jay. Chris, how are you Sir?

Chris Jay 2:23
Hey, thank you so much for having me, Dave. I'm very, very happy to be here, and I'm going to correct you right out of the gate. I definitely don't star in this. I don't think anybody would want or need that, but I did throw myself in there because I figured if I never make another movie again, I'll probably kick myself in 20 years if I can't show my kid like there's your old man, you know?

Dave Bullis 2:42
Yeah, well, I usually just say star. I mean, usually it's, I don't know what else, because usually saying that I don't know

Chris Jay 2:49
Real loose term, even when I find myself writing press releases for the film, it's like, Wait, who's starring, who's featuring, who's cameo. I mean, that shit is kind of out the window these days. I just think like you said, everybody just says, starring in, you know, it could be, could be the groundskeeper in the background. And like, Yo, he stars in the new Guardians of the Galaxy. You know, it's crazy.

Dave Bullis 3:09
Yeah, you always because, like, for me, I've always sporadically appeared in shows, so I never know what to say. I mean, do you say featured extra? Do you say, You know what? I mean, it's like,

Chris Jay 3:19
How weird is featured extra say, You know what I mean? That just sounds weird, like it's, I don't know, it's so funny all the terms, but you get all those head shots, man, um, I'll tell you, when we were cast in the movie, you'll get a kick out of this. It was a really interesting experience. But you look on the back of these resumes, Dave and some of these people, you don't know who the person is. You've never heard of them, but they've been on the coolest stuff in the world, like, Oh my God, you are on friends, and you're on Seinfeld and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then at the bottom, there's, like, a little note that just says featured extra, you know? It's like, wait a minute, you're like, an extra just showing up for lunch, which is badass, you know what? I mean. But it's crazy that you put this on your resume, you know?

Dave Bullis 3:57
Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, every, every acting thing I've ever done, I have been a featured extra and, like, always sunny, you know, I was in a and again, a pre interview. We're talking about NFL films. I was, I was in an NFL films commercial with some sites. So it's just weird, you know what I mean?

Chris Jay 4:14
So you're like me, like you're a jack of all trades, not really successful at any of them, but god damn it, you're out there doing something, you know,

Dave Bullis 4:20
Exactly you got it. Love it. I love it. So, So, Chris, just to get started, you know, I wanted to ask, you know about your background. I mean, obviously, you know, you're a founder of The Rock Band army freshman. But I wanted to ask, you know, how did you actually transition into, you know, the idea, you know, of getting into of the film industry?

Chris Jay 4:39
On, great question. Dave, so basically, super quick background, I am in the band, army of freshmen, and ever since you've been doing this movie, we've been on a bit of a hiatus. But dude, we've been around for like, over 15 years. I was born and raised in New Jersey, close to you, up in Media, Pennsylvania, where you're at and when I was 17, I left home and I moved by myself to. California to do the rock and roll thing. I mean, there was two things I love in my life. I mean, I always loved music and I always loved movies. Quite frankly, nothing else really interests me, period. I like wrestling, too, and boxing, but that's getting off off topic. But with that said, so I did the music thing. Man and army of freshmen was one of those bands that didn't blow up. We were always opening up for bigger bands, but we'd be like, the first band on the bill, like we'd come and play the Trocadero in Philly or the TLA, right? But we wouldn't be the band on the marquee. We would be the band that you didn't know that played first, right? And it was, it was awesome, man. We got to travel around the world. And, I mean, I put my blood, sweat, tears, heart. I spent my whole 20s and practically early 30s, doing army of freshmen. And right around the time that we were close to finally signing a major label deal in the late 2000s which in the old music industry, was like, you know, that was the goal, right? That was the goal. And dude downloading came, and it came like a violent, terrible, evil wave, and it literally destroyed bands of my size. We were the middle class bands, if that makes sense, you know, like we weren't the big boys, but we weren't the garage bands. We were just those hard working bands criss crossing the United States and Europe in minivans. You know, it was really honorable and noble, and you could make enough to maybe pay the rent and eat, right? But when downloading came and then the end, what the financial collapse in 2008 Dude, it just all went to hell. And you quick, you know, it was really, really ugly for the music business. And with that said, we were very close to signing to a major label, and the ANR guy that was ready to do the deal, literally, the financial collapse hit. They froze all signings for the year, right? So I'm like, Oh, my God, oh my God. What's going on? Literally, 30 days later, I called a check in to see how things are working and see if we could do the deal in January, something I had been working for basically my whole life, right? Dave, and the receptionist says he was fired, and there's nobody else to talk to. He was the only ANR guy that wanted us. So I kind of went through, I don't want to say, a depression, but I really had to take a hard look at my life. And I had always bounced around the idea of writing a screenplay, because I'm a writer like I would pay the bills, kind of doing freelance journalism for local newspapers and stuff, right? So I always wanted to write a film, just because I'm in, I'm in Southern California, right? Dave, like everybody, every waiter has got an idea for a movie, right? And I said it'd be fun to do, not even necessarily to make so I got with my partner in the band, Aaron Goldberg, who co wrote the screenplay with me, and I got in touch with a producer friend by the name of Reza riazi, who had produced one of our videos. And this is kind of like the key link here to the story. Reza kind of guided us along, so we were first time screenwriters, right? But he helped us. He kind of gave us just the, you know, just kind of the focus of what we're trying to do and trying to get across. And he kind of guided the screenplay, and we worked on it off and on for a while. We didn't sit down for like two weeks, Sylvester Stallone style, and Cram Out Rocky, you know, it was a work in progress here and there. We got to the point where we thought it was pretty good, and Reza thought the same thing, and we made the decision that I spent my whole life doing music, going in front of a Andr guys, you know, begging to get signed or get this or kiss butt, and giving demo tapes that I said, You know what? If we're going to do this movie, let's just do it right, like, no matter how much money we get, if we get $10,000 and we've got to turn it into a short film and shoot it in my garage on an iPhone, let's do it. Let's just not have anybody tell us we can't do this. I didn't want to be begging for people to read a screenplay, because think of that Dave, who the hell is going to read a raunchy comedy screenplay first time screenwriters. Oh, and they were in a rock band. I mean, that just sounds awful, like I wouldn't want to read that if that was the background and you gave it to me. So I kind of knew going in that we were going to have to do it on our own. And we set out at that point to let's make this movie. You know, Reza agreed to produce it, and he had produced some indie films before. So the good news is we had somebody helping us, and that's the key thing. I don't want you to think that we were just two guys from a band that just did all this. We had somebody guiding us, but there was no money. He just hopped on because I think at that point he had given us so much advice, he had taken a little sabbatical, because he had a film that really got taken from him and turned upside down, and he kind of moved into stand up. And I think this was an opportunity to like, Hey, maybe I can get back in the game a little bit, and let's find a young, hungry director. And that's basically the Genesis. I know that's a lot of backstory, but I think it's important to know, because we didn't come from movies at all. The closest we had to that was, I mean, I was an extra in one or two movies, a featured extra, right? And then also making our music videos. But that was it, man. I mean, we as screenwriters, went into this blind we just had that determination from the indie music world that we weren't gonna we were gonna do it, you know what? I mean, we came from a very DIY music background, and I think we sort of took the. His ethics, and put it into the film. So that's how we got to the point of, yes, we're making a movie, and there's a long backstory, and I'm sorry for that Dave.

Dave Bullis 10:20
Chris, everyone always likes to talk, and they talk a little more on my podcast what I'm trying to say. So please, you said you might ramble. Sometimes it's encouraged on this podcast.

Chris Jay 10:32
Well, you cut me off at any time. It's skinny, especially if you and I start talking cheese steaks. I mean, it's done. You know what I mean?

Dave Bullis 10:39
I completely understand, by the way. Speaking of cheesesteaks, what is your favorite cheesesteak place?

Chris Jay 10:44
I know this is sacrilege. Keep in mind, I didn't come from Philly. I came from Jersey, so I had to drive into the city. But pound for pound, I always like gyms on South Street.

Dave Bullis 10:52
Oh, Jim's is great. It's my second favorite place. What's your favorite my favorite place is John's roast pork.

Chris Jay 10:59
Oh, I've heard of that place. I've heard of that place. Is it that sensational?

Dave Bullis 11:04
Yeah, cuz it's different than all the other cheesesteak places. Once you have it, you really you understand what a cheesesteak is supposed to be.

Chris Jay 11:10
Next time I'm out there, you and I are going there. That's good. Just put it on the calendar.

Dave Bullis 11:15
Let's do it, man. It's right by the ECW arena, too. So you talk right there on a ship, Swanson and Redner. Right by Swanson. Oh, so you talk wrestling too, Dave. I'm impressed. Yeah, I could talk all day about professional wrestling before I got into film, I used to be a huge pro wrestling buff. Quick little mini, mini background. I don't want to talk too much about myself, but many, many background. Out of high school, I went right into, into pro wrestling school. I ended up working with King Kong Bundy and his promotion, and that was a whole, that was a whole adventure I could talk about hours about.

Chris Jay 11:45
So now, okay, we're getting we're veering far off track, but really quickly we'll circle this all around, because obviously there's wrestlers in my movie, so that's like, kind of like a connection. But um, did you ever get to have an indie match? Did you ever get to actually have a pro wrestling match?

Dave Bullis 12:00
I had one actual match, and that was really, where was it that it was in, I think was either Springfield or Exton Springfield or Drexel Hill. I meant it was a 20 man battle royal. It was all of the rookies of the school we were at. And that was my one and only professional wrestling match, because after that, I just wanted to get out of it, because I had to go to college, and my love affair wrestling was really, like, really burning out. And then basically, I still, if that's right around the time I ended up helping King Kong Bundy. So I had that match, sort of like, and I still had tons of contacts, and they were like, Oh, I hope you're not gonna leave. And I said, Yeah. I said, you know, I'm not six foot four, I'm five foot nine. You know what? I mean, I I'm a ginger who's gonna cheer a five foot nine ginger? Come on,

Chris Jay 12:50
Dude, that is too cool. But you got to say you had a professional wrestling match. I mean, like, that's a bucket list thing. I think for a lot of people myself included, that is awesome. Dude, that is so cool.

Dave Bullis 13:01
Well, thank you. I'll you know, if you ever want to talk about that, anytime,

Chris Jay 13:05
Kinetic energy here. We're both from the Philly South Jersey area. We both like Cheese Station. Both like wrestling. We both like movies. I mean this, this could get really awkward. Dude, by the end of this podcast, people are going to be like, disgusted, like these two guys love affairs. Ridiculous, man.

Dave Bullis 13:20
Well, most people tune me out anyway, so they're probably me too cool, man, cool. So, you know, just, you know, getting back to the back, you know. So I wanted to ask, you know, Chris, you know, where was the impetus of this idea to actually, for the screenplay? Like, did it? Did it come from, like a friend of yours? Or to come from an idea or a joke?

Chris Jay 13:40
It was an original idea that I had, and honestly, I think it was kind of inspired by the fact that being on tour in a band, right Dave, I got the opportunity to meet a lot of girls that I had gone to school with over the years, like, maybe, you know, you come to town and they live there, and they see that you're in town, and they come to a show, or you invite them, or we would go play in my hometown, in Cape May, a lot, where A lot, where a lot of people you went to school with still lived. And I was always fascinated to see where these girls that I had crushes on, where they ended up. And I don't mean that in a negative way, but just like man in the sixth grade, this girl was, you know, the hottest girl in school, or the girl that I just had a crush on, or wherever it may be. And you know what would happen if you met your crush 20 years later? Like, where are they? Who are they? And that kind of just kind of bounced around in my head, and at one point I don't have a eureka moment, or I remember it. I just always remember when I thought of movie ideas that that was at the top of my list, a guy gets in a bet where he's got to go back and meet every girl that he had a crush on in high school, because it's essentially just a fantasy that I assume I'd like to have. But the reality is, it's not going to be all good. Just because that girl was the cutest girl in sixth grade, she could be like, you know, a white trash drug addict. And I thought what would be funny about that premise is if the guy had to hook up with the. Girl, right? No matter what scenario she's in, he's got to bite the bullet and do so. And it just kind of sounded like it would be a good, fun, raunchy, wacky movie. And I just that was, that was the genesis. So I think it was kind of influenced by having met some of the girls I went to school with and being, hmm, geez, man, that was my crush. Glad that didn't work out, right? But at the same time. I think it lent itself to a good premise, and it, you know, just kind of once Aaron came in and we started writing it together. You know, that's the fun part about script writing. As much as you set it up, you go down different avenues with the script. The new characters get introduced, and things change. And I find that such a fun and fascinating process, how different the project is like. Because when you think about it, at first, because you're a writer, Dave, you know, you're a writer, Dave, you know, you see it just like this, word for word, and it's got to be like this. And these are the characters, and this is a story, but when you start writing that baby, these characters kind of take a life of their own and and even in a silly, raunchy movie like ours, directions, they start moving in different places, and, you know, motivations and scenes, and that's a fun process. I think it's really when you know, when you're just cooking with gas, and you really like where something's going with the script, that's a cool moment, man, that energy, if you can capture it. And I like writing with a partner, because I think you can really feed off people. I think it would be very difficult if I wrote a screenplay by myself, because you don't have that quality control the other person?

Dave Bullis 16:22
Yeah, you know, very true. And, you know, I, as I found, when writing, you know, sometimes I take it way too seriously, and it ends up I try to end up forcing things, you know what I mean, it's like. And then you realize you were supposed you got into writing because it's fun, right? Or you have something to say, or you want to explore something. You know what I mean. And you know that's why, you know, when you were discussing the idea creation and all these characters, you know that's what you need. You need to always, you know, be excited to come back to it when you because you got to write, you know, nobody sits down just writes out the whole thing in one, one fell swoop. You know, you come back and you write it in pieces. You know, you write three pages, five pages, and you got when you come back. You always have to have that excitement. And you know what I mean, you have to have that excitement of, okay, I see where it's going, what's going to happen now, I'm going to be just as surprised as the audience. You know what I mean. So when you were writing this, Chris, I want to ask you, did you buy any of those screenwriting books, like you McKees story or save the cap I play center? Did you buy any of those books?

Chris Jay 17:20
Umm, you know, I didn't, you're talking about the actual screenwriting books. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't, um, it was very, I mean, and again, I think I'm a little spoiled because of the fact that I am a writer, you know. So not that I'm a good writer, but I just had experience writing, you know, even in writing a 500 world article about a band, you still have a beginning and a middle and an end. So I think I understood the process to the point that I didn't. I didn't it just seemed weird to read a book, to tell me how to write a book, if that makes sense, you know. But I definitely grabbed, you know, once we're getting ready to make the movie, I ordered a book online that was like the real truth about indie filmmaking, a complete guide from top to bottom right, that kind of deal, you know. And you'll love this. But, um, you know the book now, I keep it by the bathroom. It's like the bathroom read, dude, the thing was made, like, five years ago, okay? And as I'm reading it, getting ready to make the movie, just looking for pointers. You know, half the information was defunct, and the book was only five years old. Like they were talking about, like, well, this new Netflix saying, nobody's really figured it out yet. And, you know, they're talking about lonely girl 15 was an internet phenomenon. But how can you I mean, and I'm like, my god, this is garbage. I mean, things are moving so fast in the world of technology and film that a book, and a definitive book on the subject in 2012 is now literally archaic, and that's that's wild to me. So it's almost like, What the hell do you read? Unless you read the most recent stuff on the internet? I don't know if anything could really help you know,

Dave Bullis 18:54
Yeah, absolutely. I have tons of I know there's a podcast you can't see, but to my left is tons and tons and tons of how to filmmaking books. I mean, virtually, I have every indie filmmaking book, screenwriting book, producing book you can get. And some of them are just like that. They're just completely Hey, you know, go grab your friends, grab a mini DV cam, you know, shoot some stuff in your backyard, and you know, you can send it to festivals. Well, now I don't have to do any of that. I could use my could use my phone. I don't need a DV tape. I could, you know, and edit an iMovie, or edit in Windows Movie Maker or Premiere or whatever. When I want to, I can just put it right to YouTube.

Chris Jay 19:31
Wild, huh? I mean, the same thing happened with music in terms of how quick you can go like you and I. Right now, can make the decision to start our duo, right? We could write a song, not in person, dude, we could write a song over freaking FaceTime together, right? We could record the conceivably, record the song and release it and have a website up, you know, with a social media account with before, before the sun goes down and, I mean, I'm allowed to curse, right? That's fucked up, dude, that's process isn't supposed to be like that, like, where's the growth, where's the learning. And I think the same thing has happened to film, where it's certainly much more complicated process than writing a song, of course, no doubt, right? But everything that you just said, you can still kind of do, and that's awesome, but it's also that double edged sword of it's really flooding the market and putting a lot of crap out there too. You know, people are, they just release everything, instead of, like, you know, where's the days of kind of just making movies in your backyard and nobody sees them but your parents, and then you slowly grow and get better at it. Now, kids are making their very first thing and throwing it up on YouTube, hoping they get like a viral thing. I don't know. It's just, it just seems it's like it's a hard time for the cream to you know, was it the cream rise to the top or whatever the saying is, I just, it's just really muddy, man. Technology has made things so awesome. We could never make the movie that we made without it. But at the same time, I am also aware that there's a lot of films. Maybe some people would think our film that are being made, and it's almost, you know, blocking the path for other movies. It's a weird time, man, I feel like we're just living in a very strange age, you know?

Dave Bullis 21:10
Oh yeah, absolutely we are. And, you know, it's funny, because there's a short film called panic attack, and it actually, I forget the guy who made it, but Hollywood found it, and they actually gave him the job of directing the remake of Evil Dead, okay, just because of that. Wow. So it's almost like, now, you know this whole avenue of YouTube and podcasting and self publishing, it's like they're bypassing not just one gatekeeper, but like 25 because now you're almost like your own Agent Manager. Because now you can say, oh, no, I don't want to sell this, these book rights, or I don't want to sell your rights. I want to sell this, I mean, but you're right, there is, there are a lot more players out there now. But you know, I think that as long as you have something that is that can stand above anybody else. I had Paul pedito on here, and he when he and I were talking about that exact same thing, because he was always saying, you know, he tells his film students, you know, you have to make something. And they're saying, well, there's like, 10 cochillian things on on YouTube right now. And he says, you have, you know, how do you stand out? How do you get on the front page of iTunes? How do you get on the front page of Netflix? You know what I mean? And it's just all, and it just, it really depends upon what's hot, your concept, how polished it is. I mean, you have a lot of different factors. Now, maybe it's the same factors always have been there, but they're always but, you know, they're always have to sort of work out like in your favor, like we were talking earlier, but in the pre interview, maybe, you know, some guy, some some days, some guy wakes up, has a great morning, and all of a sudden your TV pilot gets made. You know what I mean?

Chris Jay 22:41
Yeah, and that's Wow, man. It's a depressing thought, but it's just, I mean, yeah, I certainly don't want to go down the negative Road, for lack of a better word, but I think it's a terrifying prospect. I mean, I used to, and I keep falling back on music, but that's just who I am. And I think what's happening to the film world happened to the indie to the music world about 10 years ago, right? But yes, I used to tell kids, dude, just get in the van. Man, just do it. Dude, just go for it. Just do it. You know, good, bad, learn, go do it, dedicate some time. And now I don't say that, and it really freaks me out that if a kid comes to me and says, we just started a band, what do we do? I don't tell them to hop in a van. Where they gonna go, where they gonna play, who's gonna give a shit, you know? And I wonder, in some ways, if it's that similar to the film world, you know, like if a kid right out of the gate wants to do it. I mean, it's probably not, you know, I don't want to say going for the big time the brass ring, but it's probably much more honing your craft on web series and smaller things instead of jumping right into it, you know, guns blazing, you know, I just it's strange man, you know, and I come from such a different perspective, because I didn't have that educated film background that somebody like yourself does. So I think some of the reason we got this made was sheer tenacity and dumb luck and a lack of education. Because I think if we knew what we were getting into and how much time it would be and how expensive it would be, we probably wouldn't have done it, you know, and that's kind of that sometimes being naive can lead to good things if you're willing to put the work in. You know, a lot of people, I think, took mercy on us, Dave, they were just like, you're doing what? Like? You can't do that. Oh, god, okay, well, let me help you. Good luck. Good luck falling on your face on this one. Good luck making a feature film. Come on, you know. And somehow we pulled it off, but we surrounded ourselves with good people to help pull it off. But, I mean, man, people heard our budget, and people hear where we wanted to shoot it in Ventura, not Los Angeles. They were looking at us like we were lunatics, dude. I mean, like, you know, what the cool thing is, we proved a lot of people wrong. We got it done, but it was a painful, long process. It was not smooth sailing, you know,

Dave Bullis 24:47
Yeah, yeah, definitely, it definitely. I understand completely where you're coming from. And, you know, just to sort of, as we're talking about writing the BEX, I do want to talk about actually making a move, but yeah, as we're talking about when you're writing the bet, did you guys actually. Did you use final draft or fade in to write the movie? Do you use any software?

Chris Jay 25:03
Check this out. We were so naive. Aaron did the typing. I did the talking. We didn't really know about Final Draft. We had heard of it. We were kind of aware what it was. And I'm sure your listeners will be like, Are you kidding me? We were literally indenting every time a new character talked, like, the first draft or two drafts that we did, we turned it into, you know, Reza, who was kind of helping us and giving us some guidance, who ended up producing the film. And he was like, man. He was like, There's something wrong with your final draft. And we're like, What do you mean? He was like, Don't tell me you typed this. And we're like, yeah, he was like, Oh my God, you know what? I mean, he was like, Dude, he was like, That's remarkable. He was like, how long did this take? And we're like, What would take hours, you know, we'd write it and then spend another couple hours, like, indenting, indenting, indenting, centering, you know, bracketing. I mean, it was trial by fire, man, if you can believe that we did get final draft, and it was like a whole new world, you know, like, it just changed. Everything. But you like, literally, that's how backwards where it was, like, Mick Foley writing his biography on on pen and paper, you know, it's like, there's something kind of cool about that, but I can't believe we did it. I'd love to get those hours of my life back, you know?

Dave Bullis 26:17
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. You know, I know, like James Patterson and Quentin Tarantino, they still use, like, pad and pen. Wow. I still do it too sometimes. But now, you know what my the biggest con of that is, Chris is the fact that now you're ending up with like, notepads and, like, seriously, I have like, stacks of notebooks that I've been writing in, and I'm always sitting there going, you know, someday I'm gonna have to scan these things, yeah, yeah. And just, and just do away with it, because Evernote has changed my life, because I that's where I just, if I have an idea, I pull up my phone, go, okay, hold on. Let me just write this down real quick. Okay, so you know what I mean? I just type like that, and then I'll come back later on and put, you know, pull it all up, and then go, Okay, now I'll get into final draft or fade in, whatever I'm using.

Chris Jay 26:57
But do you wonder sometimes, I mean, not to get on a bigger, sort of like a deeper meaning. But, you know, do programs like that, have they have, they cheapen things a little bit. I mean, like, all the greats back in the day, they didn't have final draft, right? I mean, like, you know, when a guy like Mankiewicz was banging out Citizen Kane, he didn't have somebody indenting things for him. I mean, these guys are on typewriters, man, and then they bang scripts out. I mean, you just kind of wonder as much as it's made things easier, like, has it affected worth work ethic in a lot of ways, you know?

Dave Bullis 27:28
Yeah, you know, that's a good question. I want to say that. I hope it has just made it so they can concentrate, like guys like us, can just concentrate on the craft more without having to worry about stuff. Like, you know what? I mean, like, getting, you know, getting, you know, bogged down with that. I mean, technology, in of itself, is supposed to make things easier, like in the pre interview, we're talking about, if, when technology works, it's phenomenal. But that is good question. I mean, personally, I could never go back down to using anything else besides fine, yeah, so, I mean, like, it's if I ever had to go back, I would, I would probably, I don't know, take a header off the roof.

Chris Jay 28:04
Gotcha Understood? Understood you wouldn't be alone. Just be screenwriters. You probably live because you'd land on their corpses or something, you know,

Dave Bullis 28:12
Yeah, that's right with live because, like, somebody lived. James Patterson, when he does is he writes all longhand. He gives it all to a secretary. She put, like, types it all up, and then gives it back to him. And he has a problem. He has a process, and it's triple spaced, and that he can,

Chris Jay 28:26
If you have a secretary, you know, oh, yeah, aren't lucky enough to afford these type of things, yeah?

Dave Bullis 28:32
Well, yeah, that's what, that's what I was Gus was saying was, you know, he does have a secretary. I mean, that's why I think he can get away with it. And Tarantino, I don't know what he does. Maybe he has a secretary at some point.

Chris Jay 28:43
I imagine he's got a few at this point.

Dave Bullis 28:48
So, all right, so you know, we know you have written the bet. So I just want to take us through this process of, you know, you had the idea, you wrote the bet, you've actually got final drafts. You're able to actually correctly format it. So what was the point where you started pitching to people you know? Did and did you? Did you pitch to investors? Did you try to crowdfund this?

Chris Jay 29:08
Yeah, so, I mean, it's an important part of the story, and I think that's what people everybody's interested in that right? Where the hell you find the money? So when we decided to do it, okay, what we did, I'm giving you the step by step, we came up with three budgets. We didn't do one of these things where it has to be this amount of money, right? We came up with our bare bones, super backyard indie budget, right? We came up with, you know, our ideal budget. And we came up with something in the middle. And when I say ideal, we weren't asking for sick money, you know what I mean? We were saying, like, ideal for a micro budget movie. Okay? So we had these three different budgets. And basically we said, Let's initially go to some friends and family, like, you know. And again, we're not talking about all our, you know, broke music buddies, you know, we went to mom and dad, you know, aunts and uncles, um, Aaron and I, you know, literally pitched them personally. Couple people came in with just a little bit of money. We found a couple $1,000 to be completely blunt. And what we did, Dave, is we used that as seed money to try and find bigger money. And what I mean is, if you're trying to, let's say, take meetings, or you need to fly somewhere, or whatever it is, you need a little bit of money to do that. You know, a guy like me that works a part time job and is normally always dead broke, I don't have a budget to go if I get a meeting in New York, hop on a plane and fly out there. And then, let's face it, if you're meeting someone, you probably want to pay for the dinner, right? Want to pay for the dinner, right? If you're actually trying to get them to invest in your freaking film. So what we use that couple $1,000 for was seed money. And I mean that what we did is we printed pitch packs. We, you know, put a little budget for travel, we put a little budget for food, and we sort of use that for our money to try and find more money, if that does that make sense? So we didn't take the first five grand and like, Hey, here's our first five grand for the movie. We took it as almost our money, and I had to give ourselves a couple bucks, not to lie to you, so we could take a little time off work and actively take two months, right? And look for money. So that's what we did. And I think maybe that's a little different than most people, you know, because I think you know, because I think some people put the money away in the budget for the film, but then how do they, you know, how do they fly out to get that meeting? How do they do this or that? And I think talking to somebody in person is infinitely, always better when you're talking about finances, you know, you can look them in the eye. They can see your passion. It's, it's, real. It's tangible. You're dealing with the human being, you know. And this is what happened. This is how we got our executive producers. First off, luck is a huge part of it. But obviously, being an army of freshmen, right? We had, you know, a lot of connections in the music world. We were, I was friends with and very kind of casual friends, obviously now grown to be very close friends, but casual friends with two, if you can believe this, theater producers in the United Kingdom, theater. When I say theater, I mean theater, you know, like musicals, like shows, right? And I know that they have been friends with some other bands that I that I was friends with, and I knew that they were visiting the United States. And, you know, they kind of told me once, hey, if you ever have some projects going on, just keep us posted. You know, that kind of thing. But basically, I knew these were people that were open to the arts, if that makes sense, because they came from a theatrical background. So I reached out to them, because I knew they're going to be in the United States. I said, Hey, I'd have this project I love. This product I'd love to tell you about. They said, Hey, come on out. And this is completely true. And this is where I talk about the seed money. They were going to be in Disneyland, and I live in California, so they were going to be in the, you know, Disney, the Disney in Florida, right? So we took Dave, we took the last money in the pot, right? Bought a plane ticket, bought a cheap motel, six, got the cheapest rental possible, okay? And I flew out by myself because we couldn't afford to bring Reza or Aaron with me. That's the CO writer and the producer, and I met them at Disneyland, and I sat down over lunch at Disney right? And I told him what we were doing, and I told them what we were trying to do. And I told them we were looking for, you know, executive producers and investor for the project. And I gave them, you know, two budgets, you know, I gave them the, not the ghetto backyard budget, but I gave them our moderate and I gave them our ideal. And again, when I say ideal, it wasn't like, hey, millions more. I'm talking like, hey, another $20,000 or something, right? And they said, Okay, well, think about it. Thanks for talking to us. Blah, blah, blah. And then about two weeks later, I got an email saying that they're in. They were down to be the lead investor, you know, as long as we could find a couple other smaller investors to, you know, do it. And that was that we were off and running. And literally, that is the story of how we got our executive producers for the project. And I have to say this, because you just you got to plug the people to help you right. Their names are Craig beach and Theresa Beach, theatrical producers over in the United Kingdom and Dave. They were so awesome. Literally, I tell other people about our executive producers, and they're like, they start crying because they can't believe it, because usually the executive producers are hell, when's it getting released? When are we getting our money? What's going on? How come it's taken so long? Dave, we were doing a lot of first time stuff, and, you know, we're new to it. Like, I mean, a regular investor probably would have, I mean, probably would have taken legal action against us because things were taken so long, but we had such a limited budget, we had to go really slow to make things were right, and we were a small team, so we were very lucky that way. But I what I would have to say about that, if somebody is looking for advice, and man, how do I get my project filmed? Find a couple dollars and almost use that as, as I say, seed money. Use it as the money that you're going to use to try and find the investors, if that makes sense at all, almost like find a little bit of money just to be able to give yourself a month or two months to send emails all day and make phone calls all day and connect dots, like these are dots I wasn't in film, where I just called up a film producer, and they said, I want to back your movie, right? I was in music, and I knew somebody in music that had been involved in some musicals in the UK, so I knew they were involved in theatrical projects, right, as a bit of a relationship with them. So it was outside the box. And I think in this day and age, that's the only way to find money for film, unless you're one of the big daddies, and I may be wrong, but unless you're a big daddy, or unless your parents are filthy rich, which mine certainly are not, you have to think outside the box. You have to look in different places. So this small, tiny, micro budget, raunchy indie comedy essentially, was made and executive produced by two theatrical producers in another country. So I know that's a bit of a long story, but I just want to stress that if someone's looking for money, you've got to look in places where maybe people haven't looked before. Theater People help make a movie, as opposed to movie people that are bitter, right? And they've gone down that road, they know how difficult it is for indie film theater, people actually found it more fascinating than actual film producers who we met with that just rolled their eyes and said, Good luck.

Dave Bullis 36:31
You know, that's an interesting strategy, Chris, you know, and you know, I always am fascinated with how, you know, people have gotten their movie made. And you know, that is an excellent point, because you're right, you want to. I mean, checking out theater people. And you know what I mean, like, they're not this is, this is new to them too. You know what I mean? This is, this is still cool to them. And if you do get some film people, there's a lot of bitter, burned out people in the film industry, and they just sort of go, oh, another film. Blah, blah, blah. And that's why I try to be the difference to that. You know, I'm always trying. I always trying. I always try to stay upbeat and positive and, you know, and it's the same thing too, you know, for you know, everyone listening, if you're going to make a production staff or whatever crew you have, make sure that they all believe in the project and that no one is negative or bitter, because that that attitude spreads like a virus.

Chris Jay 37:19
It's death, it's death. It's absolute death on set. It's death in pre production, just because somebody's coup and just because somebody has great gear, just because somebody has good hookups or a good resume, I'm telling you, man, don't fucking work with them if you are indie. Find people that are hungry and young and they want to kill for it like you. It's just not worth it. I mean, I'd rather shoot on a lesser camera and have a DP that's thrilled to be there. You know, I'd rather have somebody that maybe is not on a TV show, and I found them in a theater program, but they're believing in that character. They're becoming that character. Because, dude, that jadedness is terrifying. And the great thing that we did one of the key things to get this thing done, because I'm telling you, we didn't have enough money to do it, Dave, and we didn't have enough Dave, we didn't have enough time to do it. We didn't have enough people to do it. But we got people that were stoked. We got our director, our producer, knew a guy that was doing a web series, right? Didn't go to film school, Director by the name of Ryan ederer, right, had never done a feature, had never done a TV show. We literally had just done web series, right? And our producer when he was looking for the director, for the director for this, went to see him work on a web series. They had mutual friends, and he said the director was holding the boom mic and shouting instructions, right, and also running to get coffee for everybody. And he said that's when he knew this could be our guy, right? Because he was so passionate right over a little web series that most likely, no one's going to see. How passionate would he be if he got to do a very, very small feature? So we met with him at a Denny's, right? You know, he actually reminds me of you, to be quite frank. You know, just because he's positive like that, and he just said, guys, if you let me direct this movie, all I want to do is direct a feature. He said, I will quit my job. I'm a waiter in LA I will quit my job for pre production and for the filming and for at least a solid month after done, I will live on nothing. You know? I mean, we gave him peanuts day, peanut everybody worked for so cheap on this, but I think it was we found the good people. But I also think they believed in my passion and Aaron's passion and Reza passion. I mean, when I hunted down some of the cast, which are some really super crazy, cool stories, but, dude, I was coming to them with nothing, but I was coming to them with passion. You know what I mean? Like, please, you know, you know, just like, let's get behind this, if that makes sense, and it appeals to a certain type of person. Not everybody. Dude, some people blew me right off, right? But you'd be surprised some of the cool little people you can pull because they're just good people. At the end of the day, it's getting to them, it's getting to them. It's all connections, and it's all How do you get to that person? You know,

Dave Bullis 40:07
Yeah, very, very true. And when you said you're he reminded me. He reminded me of he reminded you of me. I was gonna say, What is he a five foot nine ginger like,

Chris Jay 40:18
But he's a five foot nine from five foot nine kid from Chicago.

Dave Bullis 40:22
Aha, okay, yeah. I always like to, always want to ask, but no, but all kidding aside, though, you know, I agree completely. Man, you know, just going back to that, you know, having that passionate people, man, on set and avoiding all that negativity, because it is it now. It not only is a virus, it drains everyone's energy, and it also causes a lot more conflict with each other. And, you know, because I've been on those sets, Chris, you know, where all of a sudden, you know, someone comes in like, this is okay, I guess I want to be here. And then over then you have people who are just flat out like, oh, I don't, I don't want to be here anyway. This thing's gonna suck. Let me tell you about my let me I had a real quick story. I was on a film set one time, and this is years ago, when I was just was just goofing around making a student film, and I had this guy come on, and all he did, all this, he was, he's my director of cinematography, and he came recommended by this other guy I know. And all he did was tell everybody about his latest project. He could, you could not stop him from talking about it between takes. All he did, he was like, You know what? This reminds me of my movie, blah, blah, blah, Jesus Christ, Yo, I got it, dude, you're making a zombie film. Congrats. Congratulations. You know, there's 25 trillion of them. You know, you can add you were still on other projects.

Chris Jay 41:33
And instead of working on that project, all they do is talk about their project. We had somebody like that show up, and I won't get into any details beyond that, but it was just like, Dude, you know, it's kind of like he was kind of driving the director nuts because he kept talking about the project that he was working on. It's like, Hey, man, you know, like, that's awesome. Dude, stoked to help you. But we're fucking, you know, we got a day left of filming here we, you know, we are making the tiniest movie of all time. Like, we don't have time for this. Like, we'll just stay on board here, man, call next week and we'll talk about the zombie movie, you know,

Dave Bullis 42:01
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know. And it's like, if they had played their cards, right, they could have had an ally, instead of just, you know, boring everyone to death, just going, Hey, man, by the way, my own movie, like, we got it, yeah, you know, we got every you know, you know what I mean. So

Chris Jay 42:14
When you're on set, you know, do the job that you do, try and make connections, but, but, but work hard on the job you do, because that's what will really come through, especially in the indie setting. And I'm telling you, Dave, there's so many good things aligned up with this cast and the people involved. But, you know, we didn't get a lot of strangers. Reza was like, hey, I want to work with this DP, I know, you know, I got one or two stand ups that would be great for these roles. Let's try them first. I got an actor buddy that was in this other indie I did try him, and lo and behold, I look at the cast, there's a handful of people that we got from open casting. And we had huge open casting, we brought tons of people in, but I'd say 75% of that cast is a direct connection in one way or another. It's probably only a handful of people that we walked in and didn't know, and they just kicked so much, but we put them in, and I think a lot of people like to work with who they know, but there's a reality to that, so it's good to make a lot of friendships and connections, because you got a better chance of getting thrown into a film as an actor, if you're a waiter with the director who just got this small indie than just going to an open casting call. I almost wonder if it's even possible to do that anymore, to even get in a movie, just as a dude who walked in a room, hi, you don't know me. I'm here to show you how awesome I am, because in the back of the head they're sitting there, and they got their buddy or their nephew or their uncle or their neighbor or, you know, it's very incestuous, and our movie was no exception to that. But you trust those people. They didn't screw us. You know, we had strange we had one lady take us to sag, because we canceled her, because we had to cut the roll, because we couldn't film the scene. Dave, it was $150 roll, and she contacted sag and said, I need to be paid because they canceled on the day of she hadn't even left her house yet, dude, you know what I mean. So will we ever work with her again? Hell no. If we ever hear about her again, we'll be like, dude, that fill in the blank literally cost us $150 when we had nothing in the bank because a roll got cut. She wasn't in the car, she wasn't on set. Literally, she was just waking up and I said, I'm so so so sorry. But that just gives you an example of that type of attitude can be deadly, you know. So I'm glad she wasn't in it, because if somebody would do that, would do that to a small, tiny, little movie to get your 150 bucks, like, how would you have been on set? You know? I just, I just don't think you can be positive enough, even if you're not a positive person, learn to be because I don't think this is the business for you, if you're not ready to really just be nothing but good energy.

Dave Bullis 44:39
Yeah, I concur, you know. And the funny thing is, when last time I casted for a film I was shooting in, we did it the right way. We had, we had it at a studio. We had, you know, we had, we had two rooms. We had everything so, and we had a great audition room. It was on an elevated stage. And I had a rule, no. Know we, I am going to cast everybody that I don't know, people, people got, you know, that I knew, got to go up there, and I gave everyone a shot who I think even had a remote shot. And we whole day, and I actually ended up casting everybody who I didn't know completely. I had no friends, no family, nothing. Everybody was somebody I didn't know I was meeting for the first time, though, all those people proved out to be right. They were all great, great people, except for actually, let me. Let me amend what I just said. There's one person I hired based upon a producer who wanted him. And I said, Okay. I said, I will. I will. I will take a chance this person, that person, ended up being the problem. Okay, yeah, and that was because I knew, and I said, this is why I wanted all fresh faces. But by the way, it's funny, you mentioned about sag, because this person kept, you know, as I didn't even, I announced casting, and then I didn't even bother, like, you know what I mean, like my producers were on Facebook all the time, and I and, you know, at that point I, you know, I have a on and off relationship with Facebook. But anyways, dude, who doesn't, oh my god, the drama on Facebook. Like, who needs this shit? Honestly, the

Chris Jay 46:11
Whole promoted post shit, like, isn't the whole premise of Facebook is, if somebody likes you and they click like that, they get to know about what you're doing, and now you have to pay them to let them know what you're doing. It's like, ridiculous, dude. It's like you have like, 10,000 followers, and your posts reached five people. Like, Well, what about the 9599 five people that want to know what I'm doing, and now I have to pay you to do it. I almost feel like they invented that, they made it awesome, and then once they had the whole world on it, they decided to start getting fucking paid and screw you. The whole purpose of this is out the window. So, I mean, Facebook, to me is, I want it to go the way in my space, let it burn. You know,

Dave Bullis 46:49
It's like the mafia, man. Anything you want done on Facebook you got to pay for

Chris Jay 46:53
Absolutely totally Facebook, the mafia of social media.

Dave Bullis 46:58
But I was just gonna, just to finish that thought, This guy said, you know, hey, I would like to, like to try out, and I like to, you know, for a role. And already I've been warned about this guy, real creepy dude, real sleaze bag. Well, one of my producers says, Listen, you know, we'll be casting soon enough, or we're crowdfunding right now. He took us to sag and said that we were trying to make him pay to audition. Oh my god. And sag thankfully sided with us, and they said, No, they did not say that. Blah blah. I told my producer. I said, Don't even talk to him. I said, I told you about this guy, and then I mean, that caused a problem between us. And I mean, all because of this, this really wormy guy,

Chris Jay 47:41
Almost bizarre. It's like those people, just like I always fear. There's a lot of people in this world that I would like to fucking tell the fuck off, right? But I don't, because I just feel that you burn bridges. You never know what's going to occur, especially in a business like this. Why would you ever even somebody's a dick? Okay, they're a jerk. You're my homeboy, Dave. I call you on the slide and say, Dave, do not work with Chuck schmucatello. He's terrible, right? But why tell chuck that he's a terrible person? I even in life, I don't do that. When I meet somebody I don't like, it's like, what's the point, dude? Like, why throw that negative energy out there? I mean, it's just, but I just think people that do that in this business, what are they fools? They don't think people talk. I mean, it's just insanity, you know?

Dave Bullis 48:24
Oh, dude, I was one time on Facebook that, you know, the Philly film scene. As we were talking the pre interview, this guy gets on his Facebook, tags a local producer, and says the and says, Oh, this guy's a piece of shit. Fuck him. Blah, blah. And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, this has to be a joke. I said, because there's no way this guy is serious. They start going back and forth all over Facebook, and the one and the guy chimes back with, well, it's not a good idea to make enemies with a producer. And they're going back and this guy, because the other guy was an actor, they're going back and forth. Other people are getting brought in. And I go, all these people have just entered my blacklist because, I mean, I would never want anything like this to happen.

Chris Jay 49:05
And the crazy deal like, Why, it's just, there's a lot of weird stuff out there. So obviously, you and I are jumping all over the place. But the whole point of that, to go back to the bet, the movie that that we made is, man, we eliminated that, Dave. I mean, it was awesome. If you were to go on this set, you literally would be treated with so much kindness and respect and check this out. When we were doing auditions, I would ask people that I was interested at the end, when they got up. I literally, I even the girl who plays our lead actress, who's going on to do some really cool stuff, I said, Because I loved her, I thought she was great. And I was just like, um, I have one last question. Like, are you a nice person? And she was stunned, and she was just like, uh, what do you mean? Like, I don't know. Just like, we're new to this, and, you know, we're scared of, like, the whole actress Hollywood reputation, like, we just want nice, normal people. Like, are you friendly, like, in real life? And she started laughing, and she's like, Yeah, yeah, I'm friendly in real life. But she was so stunned to hear that question. But it came from a very honest place, you know, like, Are you being real right now, or are you being nice because you want to get cast in this? Like, if we're having lunch, can we talk to each other? Are you going to be I don't want to be here. I just did it. Get everything on my reel. I got something better. Now I need to go be a hot chick on the set of, you know, 30 rock. I'd be bad example. But you know what I mean? Like, it was, I was so obsessed with making sure that people were nice. I wanted them talented too. There's a couple people we passed on. I think that could have maybe even helped the movie, because they had a bit of a name, because I met him, and I was like, I got a bad feeling, man. I got a bad feeling like they're not going to take this seriously. They want to be in bigger shit. I'd like those people that are kind of bubbling, that are really hungry and want to do good work. Because there was a lot of like with the dads. We cast two professional wrestlers. We cast Diamond Dallas Page and Jake the Snake Roberts, which is a wild story, but we had a couple leads on some dads, or more like character actors, and I won't say any names, but dudes that you and I know, but there were these B movie dudes, Dave, these dudes that like, Yo, you give them five grand a day, right? And they'll come and they'll barely know the lines. But you can say you've got the dude from this TV show in it, or the guy that was in this movie, you know. And they just make a living popping around these bean movies, I even hear one guy wore an earpiece. And I'm like, what? That guy's not even that big, but they're like, he wears an earpiece, and you feed him his lines, but hey, you can give him five grand, and then you can say so and so's the dad in your little, tiny movie. And I just thought that was so horrifying and kind of sad too. But it's a reality, you know?

Dave Bullis 51:42
Yeah, yeah, you know. I just, I was just thinking right now, a guy on set with an earpiece and someone, some, some pa feeding him live,

Chris Jay 51:49
And what does he say? Like, you know, okay, Mr. So and So, say this one sad, you know, I miss you son, you know. And he's just like, I miss you. I mean, imagine editing around that. I mean, imagine making sure the dude's hair covers the ear piece. And that's a reality that a filmmaker would do, because, hey, at least he's got some type of name. So on the stupid cover we can put featuring the dude from, I'm trying to think of a TV show, you know what I mean. But featuring the dude from, you know, you see them, Dave, you know, I don't have to do names. You see those guys that just, they're like, why are they in so many B movies where they just take the five grand a day and that's that, and then people cram their scenes in one day because they can't afford them for two days. You know, it's crazy, man.

Dave Bullis 52:32
You know, my favorite dad, who's actually starting B movies was, is Michael Gross from family ties, where he's he's in tremors. And I actually know somebody who's worked with him, and he says, No, Michael is not like that at all. Michael actually shows up. He still works hard. He's the nicest guy. And I said,

Chris Jay 52:49
I hasn't done more. I actually thought he was a really good actor. Like, is he still around?

Dave Bullis 52:55
Oh yeah, he's still around. He just released tremors five with him and Jamie Kennedy,

Chris Jay 52:58
Wow, wow. Dude, great name, great. That's a hell of a pull, right there. Dude, that's, that's somebody that's, just seems like a good actor. I bet he's a good dude. You know, that's what? Yeah, that's an interesting one. You forget about people like that. There's so many of them floating around out there. It's, it's got to be brutal, dude. I mean, to be an actor has just got to be tough.

Dave Bullis 53:16
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, I have friends who are actors, and we're always going back and forth about, you know, auditioning, casting and stuff like this. And, you know, because, you know, you know how it is Chris, because some people know, hey, Dave, you know what's this director like I'm going to work with? And I say, you know, he's, you know, he's pretty, no nonsense. And, you know, blah, blah, blah. And this one's, you know, real, you know, fast and loose. Just wants to have fun. So, you know what I mean, it just stuff like that, you know. And it's most and I would never recommend anybody like we were just talking about. I would never recommend anybody who I wasn't 100% confident in, you know what I mean? And I mean that that really is critical, you know. And I would, by the way, I would love to work with Michael Gross someday. I I've not only heard good things about him, but I heard, you know, I still, I love everything he's in, all the tremors movies. He makes those tremors movies.

Chris Jay 54:03
And plus, if he ever writes an autobiography, he already has the greatest title ever, just a gross life, and it's just hidden on the front looking sad, you know,

Dave Bullis 54:12
Just covered in blood of a tremor of a gravel. So, you know, Chris, as we you know, as we're talking about the bet I wanted to ask, and I always ask this to any filmmakers, what was the biggest challenge, whether it was a day, whether it was a specific incident, you know, what was the, you know, the biggest obstacle you had to overcome while you were making this,

Chris Jay 54:32
During during filming, or during the whole process, during filming, okay, um, during filming, okay? Because we filmed over 13 days, you know, we shot it in 13 days, all in the city of Ventura. The most difficult thing was during filming. The most difficult thing was the wearing of the different hats, because we were so small that Aaron and I were the set dressers. Right? Aaron and I were the the. Wardrobe dudes. Aaron and I were the prop guys. Aaron and I were the Go get the catering guys. And Aaron and I were also the, oh, geez, we were, I mean, we were, we were so much, we were so much, and it was too many hats. The lesson that I learned hopefully when we make our next one, oh, actually, I should talk positive when we make our next one, next year, right? The key thing, I think would be, is you just can't have enough of those assistants, not people to beat up or bully or make you go get coffee, you know what I mean, but just somebody there with you. Like, hey. Like, this is kind of my guy, you know what I mean. Like, you know, hey, I'm just gonna make this up. But Steve, Steve, you're with me, Ryan, you're with Aaron, yo. We'll treat you great. Nothing but love. But we just need a sec, a set of hands that you're always with me, almost like, give me two extra arms, you know. We're going to be doing some fun stuff, you know, but we just bit off more than we could choose, so it was hard to focus on that. And then I was also picking up wrestlers at airports. And we also had other people helping with this. Dave, I don't want you to think it was just four people making this movie, right? But we just thought we could do more. I wanted to be on set more dude, you know, and me sitting there watching it, and, you know, as the writer and CO producer, I wanted to be watching the actual movie get made. And I spent 50% of that movie not on set, but setting up the set, or picking people up, or picking up food because we were so small, you know? So I guess, I guess the most difficult thing was wearing too many hats. You got to find a way to find more people to help with the hats, but you have to trust them. And I really, and don't trust many people. I had a vision of how every room should look. I had a vision of, I knew the relationships with the restaurants that were doing the catering. So how can I send somebody when I need to be the one that goes in there, and it's Chris's face that they know, and that's why they're giving them a bunch of tacos. So it was just that, you know, I think you can wear too many hats, and sometimes that can probably be the death of small movies. But again, we had a lot of good people around us, so that, to me, was the most difficult thing. I should have trimmed a couple things off the list that I was responsible for, but we wanted to take that money, Dave, and put it in other places. And I think that's why our movie, hopefully, when you see it, hopefully you'll like it and find it funny, but I think you'll see man, for the budget. Damn. These guys did a good job of making this stuff look legit, you know. And I think that's because we put money, we saved money in certain places, where other places would get trailers right, or other places would hire a cating company, or other places would pay for food, or other places would hire a set dresser. We did all of that, you know, and that really, I think, made things difficult, but made us to make a movie that's better.

Dave Bullis 57:34
Yeah, you know, that is something I always talk about with filmmakers, is there's a tendency to read something like Robert Rodriguez's film without a filmmaker, without a crew, or even like the the the rebels guide by Stu makovitz. And it's almost like, and I've done this to myself, it's almost as if we try to be a one man crew, and it ends up hurting you more than helping you. And I completely understand Chris when you're talking about putting that money elsewhere. That's what I've always thought of, too. Is, you know, why should I have, you know, I can be the camera operator and the cinematographer and the and the boom mic operator, and I'll edit this thing, and you know what I mean, and I'll be the colorist. Well, I'll do Foley, just because you can, should you that's the question, exactly. Yeah. So that's why, when I make movies from now on, I always just want to be the writer, the director and the producer, and even, that's a lot. Even,

Chris Jay 58:23
Yeah, that's a lot, dude, that's a lot. I think the writer is the easiest one of the bunch, because your work's kind of done. Like, what are you going to do on set? Maybe catch a line that you want done a little different. It's, you know, what I'm saying, like, I think you can handle being like, but it sounds like, Yeah, I'm not certain. I'm not going to tell you how to do it, but you're right. I mean, you just wear so many hats because you can. But then again, at the end, the hardest part, the hardest part the whole movie, forget the filming. Filming was awesome, is post production. We were not prepared. We were not ready. We ran out of money. Tech issue after tech issue after tech issue after tech issue to the point of we the film is out upon release of this podcast right? Came out today, I believe, so the film can be seen blah, blah, blah, but I'm talking to you a couple days before we release it, right? Let's be honest. So our premiere is in Los Angeles in 48 hours, and we just just got the blu ray completed to show it, because the core producer and director spent the past 10 days doing program after program after recording after program to burn a freaking Blue Ray. I mean, like, that's what we're talking about, and it's tech. Tech. Tech, Tech. Tech has been a complete nightmare for something like this, because we haven't had the money to have a real, proper post production team, and it really made things take a long time. And was, really, was brutal, man. So I would say tech is the hardest part of it, which is funny, because it's the first thing you and I said when we got on the phone in the pre interview,

Dave Bullis 59:47
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I'm so glad though, that everything has worked out honestly, man. Because I honestly Chris, because I hear so many, you know, independent films. You know, they have a budget, whatever that budget might be, and they they get to like, 75% done, 80% done, and then all of a sudden they have to stop, for whatever reason. You know what I mean. I there's so many movies in the Philadelphia, especially in the Philadelphia especially in the Philadelphia area, where, you know, I am, where I've, you know, I've been a part of films like that, where I've been an actor for them, or I've helped out in crew or something, and all of a sudden, you know, they're like, oh, yeah, that movie's on some guy's hard drive, and we're probably never going to finish it.

Chris Jay 1:00:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And how sad is that? Is there anything more sad in the world than that, man, I mean, like, you know that heart and soul and blood, sweat and tears and it's just gone? Like, oh man. I mean, I'd be devastated, dude. We were devastated how long post production was taking. And at one point I had, I was never going to give in to the vision, but there was a vision of, is this going to be one of these things, you know what I'm saying? Like, is this going to be one of these things that can't get done because we ran out of money? That was a real tough time. You know? I mean, post production took a long time, and, man, it's depressing. It's kind of scary. Like, oh my god. Like, you know, what are the investors gonna mean, I'm being honest with you, because it's a filmmaking podcast, right? But like, what are the investors gonna do if we, if we can't pull this off, what happens to the footage? What happens to our reputations? I mean, like, so we just stayed in the pocket. But, I mean, the amount of work, my God, Dave, if you could have told me ahead of time, I would have done it, of course, but geez, would I have questioned my sanity? You know? Because, I mean, I've basically remained in poverty just to get this thing done, because I can only work part time, because I need to spend the rest of the time working on the movie, man. I mean, it's God, is it a labor of love. I just have such a deep respect for people that make movies. Now, I will never shit on a movie. I may not like it, but an indie film, I'll shit on the studio ones all day, you know, but I will never shit on an indie film again. And when I say indie, let's talk about real indies, dude. I'm not talking about a million dollar indie with Daniel Radcliffe being a guy who farts as a corpse. I'm talking about like, you know, I'm talking about like, Hey, you made a movie for $100,000 you made a movie for 150 you made a move for 75 basically, you pull off a movie for under $150,000 and you have my respect forever, you know,

Dave Bullis 1:02:14
Yeah, and I agree completely. And by the way, Swiss Army Man, I somebody told me the premise of that movie, and I thought they were joking around, and then, and then I saw a trailer, and I was like, Oh, okay. I said, you know, Chris, I've seen so many weird movies over the years. At this point, I'm like, You know what? I'll take a gamble on this one too.

Chris Jay 1:02:32
Yeah, cool. Good for you, man, good for you. Maybe. I mean, honestly, it'd probably be like a freaking masterpiece, right? Could probably be like the most important film made in years, you know, so good for them. You got to respect somebody doing something different, you know, you have to. But people are telling me, like, it's this new indie, get the fuck out. Ain't nothing indie about a movie with those two guys in it. Come on. You know, the CGI alone, when he rides them through the ocean, probably costs like, $100,000 you know, you and I could have made five shorts for that, you know?

Dave Bullis 1:03:01
Yeah, seriously, I mean, and I believe I understand completely what you're saying, Chris and I and, you know, because, I mean, I've made movies for literally nothing, just everyone doing it for the love of the game. And then I've made things for like, 2530, $40,000 and you're like, holy crap. It sounds like a lot of money when I started, and now it's like, down to nothing, yeah.

Chris Jay 1:03:20
I mean, it's, man, it's just a, it's, it's a mind blowing business, man, I got a lot of respect for you guys that do this and love it and breathe it because it's so hard to get it done. I mean, what other thing can you name that you just can't do? Right? If I want to be a pro baseball player, probably not going to happen. But damn it, I can play baseball every day of my life, right? I can get in an intramural league. I can play and fill in the blank with anything else music. Okay, maybe I'm not going to be, you know, um, I'll give you Bon Jovi reference, and you're that part of the world. I'm not going to be Bon Jovi, but I can still write a song, I can still find a little coffee house open mic, and I can play it for people, right? But you just can't make a film. Okay? You can grab your iPhone, of course, you I'm not saying you can do that, but do you know what I mean, an actual full length feature film. You just can't do it. There's a million hurdles. There's all these people, I don't know. I just think it's just such a such an undertaking to go down that road that I just support anybody. Man, like, just awesome. Hell, it's great. How can I help you? You know, what do you need? Because you're about to go to war, like you are about to go to war, and it doesn't end in the filming. You know, here I am two two years later, finally releasing the thing and the distribution you're dealing with, and doing the premiere and and doing the press, and you're all do, I mean, dude, I mean, I'm just again. You are talking to me at a time where my head's spinning. So you're probably getting a very emotional version of me. If we talk in three months, we could probably have a very relaxed So, Chris, how did it happen? Whoa, Dave, this happened, you know, but I'm in the midst of, like, ah and, but it's an exciting ah, and I asked for this, and I'm pumped up and, and we're proud of it too, man, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a big life goal and a huge accomplishment, you know,

Dave Bullis 1:04:57
Yeah, oh, absolutely. Chris. And, you know. I mean, I've been there before, too, and I completely understand where you're coming from, dude. And honestly, Chris, you should be proud of the bet movie. And now you're gonna, you're probably at that phase where you know you at the end, you're, you're probably, you know, you're drained, you've given everything you can, and you're like, you know what, I've made one movie. That's it. Goodbye. And then about a month or two letter. You're like, Man, I should maybe make a note.

Chris Jay 1:05:23
It's funny. You say that, Dave, um, while we were waiting for uh, post production to happen, and we're kind of had the post production blues, right? And trying to find some more money, right? What we did is, uh, we wrote another script, Aaron, and I learned so much. We said, let's take this education. Let's write another one man and and, you know, it's so funny. You know, you always you get better. But we had so much on set experience in this whole process, I kind of feel like we went to film school without going to film school, right? And, and I'm sure film school people be like idiot. No, you didn't. No, it's true. I don't know the difference between this brand of camera this brand of camera, right? But, um, we wrote this next script, and we're very excited about it. We actually want to shoot it next year in South Jersey, in your neck of the woods, and it was so cool because we got to write a script, knowing what it's like to make a movie. Now we know what we need. Now we know too. Can't write that scene that's ridiculous. It'll get cut. So it got to be very focused. And that's just the education that comes with time that guys like you have. But it was very exciting to put that into play, and if this movie does well, you know, your hope is that it opens the door for another executive producer, or the same executive producers, or just more connections in the business to back this and get behind another one. But I definitely learned we need more money if we want to take make the type of movie we made, we're not going to be able to do it on that budget again. We're going to need to find a couple more bucks. You got to move up the ladder a little bit, right? You can't, you can't go in the opposite direction.

Dave Bullis 1:06:45
Oh, yeah. It's just like what Dov Simon says, you know, you may. You get to make a $20,000 movie, then you make a $50,000 movie, then you make 100 some odd 1000 and then all of a sudden you're making million dollar movies. You know what I mean? I think, actually, I think he starts off with, in his paradigm, you make, you make a movie for nothing, literally, it's just your friends, whatever. And then you, you have to make a movie for like, 10 grand or five grand, and then you move up, you know, sporadically, but, yeah, but I know exactly where you're coming from, because that's what I mean. That's what I've always said too, is, you know, people ask me about making stuff and why haven't made anything like four or five years? And my answer is, is, because I'm an idiot, and I write things and I go, Holy shit, I would never be able to even using all my methods I talk about in this podcast, even having all the people who've talked to me and saying, like, what do you have access to? What can you make today with it, with all you have access to, I end up writing stuff that that. I'm like, Dude, I look at one effect, and I'm like, this thing would cost 50 grand, or I look at this, this would cause, you know, I mean, I mean, but then again, Chris, you know, I don't know if you, I don't know if you ever listen to this other couple of podcasts, but, I mean, I'm the guy who was able to get a live working tank and also able to get fake police cars to destroy, and we stand, and it wasn't That. Wasn't, you know, we couldn't make it because, not because we couldn't find the tank and the police cars to destroy, but because me and the director couldn't get along. So it was a very odd,

Chris Jay 1:08:11
I love it, so therefore your biography should be, I found the tank once the Dave Bullis story, you know,

Dave Bullis 1:08:17
Yeah, yeah. And I actually, because I have a friend of mine, who's a mechanic. He he has a contract with police. The police department had all the old police parts. We were going to doctor up all these old Junkers to look like police cars from just one side, and then run a tank over them. And we had, and I got everything all squared away. And, I mean, the director connected.

Chris Jay 1:08:37
Wow, that's crazy, do you but, but now he's in tank. No, you found a tank. That's the important thing. You know? Yep, I he's my tank guy. From now on, this guy, I love it. Hey, at least you have a tank guy. A lot of people don't have that.

Dave Bullis 1:08:49
I love it. I got two things going for me. I had a pro wrestling match, and I have a tank guy. So that's it.

Chris Jay 1:08:55
I think for most people, that's enough. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you know, even on your tombstone, like your lies. Dave bolas, he had one pro wrestling match, and one time he found a tank. I mean, everybody's gonna take a picture of that tombstone. That's gonna be plastic.

Dave Bullis 1:09:10
As I'm buried in a What is it, the piano crate. But I just become like Marlon Brando. I just eat myself into like an early grave. Worse. We just took a very dark turn there. But, but, but, Chris, I wanted to ask, Where can people find the bet movie?

Chris Jay 1:09:29
Yeah, absolutely. So the bet as of right now, is officially out. I think it's actually comes out today, on the day of airing from July 26 on, it is on, shouldn't be, should be on all VOD outlets, like time, Warner's movies on demand, Comcast movies on demand. You know, DirecTV movies on demand. And, of course, iTunes, that's kind of the de facto place, and that's probably the first place I would send somebody to look for it on iTunes. But it'll also be available for ran on Xbox this. PlayStation, Fandango, now voodoo. So basically all the digital outlets, the VOD outlets, and then we'll be doing a DVD at the end of August, and then, God willing, fingers crossed conversation for another time we land on Netflix or Hulu Hulu with the streaming deal. So that's the plan. But right now, if you want to see this movie, if you like comedy, if you like silly movies, if you like professional wrestling, if you just want to see what a bunch of psychotic, ambitious dudes made on a small budget, you know, check it out this. This one came from the heart man. It's a silly movie. It's a wild movie. It's a wacky movie. It's certainly not for everybody. It's not high brow, um, Dave. But, you know, in a weird way, it came from all the right places. You know, it came from good people that worked really hard against a lot of odds. And, you know, I think, as any indie filmmaker, regardless of the content, it's the type of movie you want to download, buy it once, and support it because, you know, I think a lot of people can relate to the struggle. Man, you know, it is real, and it's always cool. When somebody cracks through and gets it out there, we'll see what happens. Man, I don't know what's going to happen, but it's exciting. It's exciting to find out, you know,

Dave Bullis 1:11:19
Yeah, and by the way, I meant to mention, this is Roddy Roddy Piper's last movie, right?

Chris Jay 1:11:23
Yes, it's a final appearance of Roddy Roddy Piper. He has a cameo in the film. So it is small, but that was one of the great joys of my life, was having Roddy Piper in my own house hanging out. We got to spend a wonderful day together. We really bonded. We actually became friends from the whole project and kept in touch. So, you know when, we lost him, that was, you know, it kind of affected me a little bit. It was strange to have made friends with a hero like that, and then worked with him on this, and started to talk to him about other projects, and just as quickly as he came in my life, he left. But it's a real honor to me if the only thing that this movie becomes known for, historically, that's a stretch of a word, but is, if it's known, oh, that was that last movie that Roddy popped in for a couple minutes. Fine by me, man, fine by me. I'm honored to be the guy that made Roddy Piper's last movie.

Dave Bullis 1:12:12
Yeah. And honestly, even if I, if I didn't know you, Chris, I honestly, I would have actually bought the movie just to see his last performance. I was, you know, being a wrestling fan. I'm a huge Piper fan as well, and that, I think that is so freaking cool. So it'll be all say, on your, on your, you know, on your eulogy, that can say, Hey, Chris, you know, Chris J he, he was able to hang out with rowdy Piper, and he made the bet move.

Chris Jay 1:12:35
Yeah, there you go. That's it, man, that's, that's all I got going for me. And of course, if anybody's listening. If they want to follow us online, you can go to the bet movie 20 sixteen.com From there, you can connect to our Facebook, our Twitter, our Instagram. We're trying to have fun with the marketing day. We're really trying to get a little cult buzz on this. It's for comedy fans. It's for wrestling fans. We got some talented people in it, man. You know our two lead actors, Amanda Clayton, is going to be in a Martin Scorsese movie at the end of the year. She's on a Tyler Perry show right now, our lead actor has a small role in Guardians of the Galaxy two so you're going to see some faces in here that I truly believe in my heart. In the next year or two, you're going to see a lot more of and I think we just took casting so seriously that, you know, hopefully it's one of those films that gains momentum as it goes to Netflix. As people see it, they're like, Hey, man, I saw this movie, and it's kind of wild, but it's actually funny. I like to think it's kind of, I don't know, you know, I think it's a funny movie. You don't make a comedy to not make people laugh, and that was our goal.

Dave Bullis 1:13:33
You know, I'm glad you actually brought that up. If you have the time. I had some fan questions coming through Twitter. Yeah, sure. Okay, so one of them, it actually is, if there was one thing that you wanted the audience to take away from your film, what would that be?

Chris Jay 1:13:49
Somebody's got to write dick and fart jokes. Why not me?

Dave Bullis 1:13:56
The second question is, what cameras did you shoot on? And did you shoot in 4k?

Chris Jay 1:14:03
We shot on an Alexa, which we were very lucky to get. So it looks awesome. And then we did one or two pickup shots with a red that was attached to a drone, and the guy that let us use it basically ran around and followed it underneath in terror, because he was ready to catch it if it fell.

Dave Bullis 1:14:22
And so you shot, you didn't shoot in 4k?

Chris Jay 1:14:23
You know? I mean, that's how not technical I am. I'm being completely blunt with you, Dave, I'm not sure. I just know that we had the Alexa camera that everybody was super excited, and it looked great, especially when we put that color on. It's like, Man, this looks like a real movie, quote, unquote,

Dave Bullis 1:14:40
You know, it's, uh, by the way, as you, you know, go through this wonderful world of filmmaking, by the way, that's the number one question you will always ask from now, every time you make a film, every other filmmaker is going to ask you this question, what did you shoot it on? What did you shoot it on? Okay, yep, that that will be the de facto question. And, you know, they're a filmmaker, because non. Filmmaking people don't give two flying fucks. What you shoot on they you could shoot it on a cardboard box. No, you're gonna say, Hey, I shot it with my iPhone. Oh, that's cool. What they're every filmmaking person is gonna say, Hey, would you shoot that?

Chris Jay 1:15:11
Okay, okay, I just sent a text to find out so in the future, I won't look like a goob.

Dave Bullis 1:15:16
It's cool, man, believe me, man, I you know, it's all good with me, you know? Because every time that I've every film, if you go to a film festival, a film networking thing, and you show a film, would you shoot that on Okay, would you shoot that? That's everybody. Everyone loves to ask that question, but, but, but I just that's how I can tell if you're a film, if you're in the industry or not, because non industry people won't even mention it,

Dave Bullis 1:15:39
But, but, but, yeah, Chris, I want to say thank you so much for coming on. And I want to ask where people find you out online,

Chris Jay 1:15:50
Yeah, if people want to see what I'm up to and all that fun stuff, the best place is probably on Twitter, and it's just at army of freshmen. That's the name of the band, and that's where I kind of put my all my personal stuff, you know? And I got the text message, so I'm a professional filmmaker now, Dave, you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Ready. Ready, ready. It said we shot on an Alexa camera. And it said that the time Alexa didn't shoot four, we shot on a two, does that? Okay? So 2k? 2k. Okay, that's what I want to say. And Alexa, 2k. Okay, good. Is that a good thing, Gabe, or bad thing?

Dave Bullis 1:16:32
That's fun, honestly, man, you know, that's the most

Chris Jay 1:16:35
Should have hung up on me. That would be a great end of this conversation. What a fuck!

Dave Bullis 1:16:40
That's I end up most conversations. What a fun but, but basically, you know, everyone only has 1080 1080 monitors, TVs, tablets, phones. So, I mean, you know this whole thing about shooting 248, you know, it's, I don't know if it matters at the end of the day, I, you know, I think it's a great thing, honestly, if you shoot, I think we're ways away from shooting everyone shooting in 4k and being able to enjoy in 4k as well, because you have to crush all this stuff anyway. So my answer is, yeah, I think that's great, man.

Chris Jay 1:17:11
Okay, good, good, good, good. I can't wait for you to see it, man. I really mean that out of everybody that I've been talking to, publicity wise, I think you'll have a neat perspective, number one, because you like wrestling in all honesty, and you'll probably understand how it's hard to work with wrestlers and but you'll understand the comedy of it. And number two, you're a film guy, you know. Number three, you're from Philly. And number four, you didn't laugh at me when I didn't know what camera it was shot on. So these, you know, you're the type of guy that needs to see this film.

Dave Bullis 1:17:36
You know, I'm gonna put all my PJs. I'm gonna fire up the old Xbox, I'm gonna check it out.

Chris Jay 1:17:41
Go, go, go. Awesome. David. And thank you so much for your time, dude. And again, I do listen to the podcast, and I always enjoy your conversations. I like how you have a lot of variety of people on the show. You're not like, kind of one of those conceited podcasts that kind of just rip on people and, you know, they just kind of make it sort of, I don't know, it's kind of seems like bitter dudes that don't make movies that want to rip on people that do that's not you. You're always so supportive to your guests, and I always learn something. So I am a fan. Man, it was a real pleasure talking to you.

Dave Bullis 1:18:07
Oh no, I appreciate that, Chris, like I said in the pre interview, man, I you know, I always try to stay positive. You know, I always want to make this a place of positivity and have as many interesting, diverse people on as I can. But having said that, I want to say thank you very much for coming on, Chris, and I really do wish you the best with a bet movie. I am going to be checking it out Tuesday, July the 26th it is released on all of the of the channels that Chris was talking about. But Chris, honestly, man, I want to say thank you so much for coming on, and I'm going to make sure to check out the bet movie.

Chris Jay 1:18:40
Cool. My pleasure, Dave, you take care. And thanks everybody for listening. Really does mean a lot. Please check out the film and say hi. Let us know what you thought. Awesome. Take care. Okay, take care brother!