Kinoptik 5.7mm F1.8 (The Kubrick) – Vintage Lens Review

I always marveled at how Stanley Kubrick chose his lenses considering he created some of the most visually stunning images ever exposed to film. After visiting his exhibit at the LACMA, multiple times, I saw this very odd looking lens in the display case. The lens in question was the Kinoptik 9.8 F2.3.

Kubrick filmed much of A Clockwork Orange using this lens and the maze scene in The Shining. So after doing some research, I discovered that the Kinoptik 9.8 F2.3 had a Super 16mm little brother, the beautifully odd Kinoptik 5.7mm F1.8. I went on a hunt for one and found a stunning copy in almost mint shape. Now the fun can begin.

REAL WORLD EXAMPLES

You can some real-world examples of what this baby can do in the trailer for my new film On the Corner of Ego and Desire.” I shot a ton of this feature film on the Kinoptek, in freezing cold temputures and it performed better than I ever dream. It was shot on the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera on a Micro 4/3 mount. Check it out.

The Kinoptik 5.7mm F1.8 is a crazy little lens. You would think a 5.7mm lens would fisheye but it doesn’t. The wide angle perspective it produces can’t be ignored. Getting that wide of an angle without a fisheye is just plain nuts. In a world where lens makers are looking for the perfect image, the Kinoptik 5.7mm is a breath of fresh air. It creates one of a kind, imperfect image bursting with character.

It’s perfect for the Digital Bolex or the Blackmagic Pocket Camera (my weapon of choice with this lens) as well as a number of digital Super 16mm cameras coming out. Let’s get down to the nuts and bolts of this baby.

EXPOSURE

Shooting the Kinoptik 5.7mm wide open is not advisable unless you want a really “Dreamy” look. My lens says F1.8 but it stops at F2 and doesn’t let me go any wider. Once I stopped down to f2.8-4 the image sharpens up nicely. If you are shooting outside in sunlight you’ll get a pin sharp image at F11-16. Excellent for capturing extreme sports and dreamlike surfing footage.

CHARACTER

This lens has character dripping from the aperture ring. There’s no other lens around that can give you such a unique image. For the correct project, it’s remarkable. Editing the Kinoptik with other lenses could be a challenge but if you want to see how that’s done just watch Kubrick use the lens in The Shining and A Clockwork Orange.

MOUNT

The Kinoptik 5.7mm F1.8 originally came out in the C and Arri-S mounts but there are a few PL versions flying around. I purchased an Arri-S to Micro 4/3 mount adapter and it works great. The adapter was pricey ($80) but it’s well built and works great.

FILTER

The lens doesn’t have a filter thread but some models come with a “filter tray” installed in the lens. It has a little trap door to pop it open and close. My advice, keep it closed at ALL times so no dust or other dirt gets into the lens. One big piece of advice when shooting with this lens, keep the lens clean! A little dirt or dust on the front element becomes a monster on your footage.

FOCUS

The lens doesn’t come with a focus ring. Depending on the combo of lens and camera, finding critical focus could be a challenge. In my case, I found I could focus about 3 inches from my subject. I’ve read others find critical focus at 5 feet. You should test the lens and adapter to see where your back focus is.

PROS:

  • By far the widest non-fisheye lens Super 16mm lens out there
  • Oozing character
  • Can make any shot stand out
  • Cost effective for a Kinoptik Cinema Lens

CONS:

  • Can’t shoot it wide open
  • No focus ring
  • A challenge to cut together with other lenses
  • No filter thread

Final Thoughts

I love this lens. It’s not perfect but I wasn’t looking for a perfect lens. I wanted character and definitely got it with this baby. It’s not for everyone or every project but if used correctly, like Master Kubrick did, it can make your project stand out from the crowd.    


Friends of the show Matthew Duclos and Ryan Avery started an amazing new website called LensFinder. Lensfinder.com is an online marketplace for photographers and cinematographers to buy, sell and learn about used, vintage and boutique lenses. We want buying and selling quality glass to be easy and affordable. Great glass helps inspire great images and we look forward to serving this incredible community of creators by offering a place to get the tools for your next great project.

To find more vintage lenses go to Lensfinder.com


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IFH 164: Vintage Lenses for Indie Filmmakers MasterClass w/ Alan Besedin

Right-click here to download the MP3

One of the main goals of Indie Film Hustle is to give real-world knowledge and resources to indie filmmakers so they can make a living doing what they love. Film gear is a big part of that equation. I always am on the lookout for the best bang for the buck when it comes to film gear.

I recently began to dip my toes into the world of vintage lenses. Vintage lenses are exactly that, vintage. You may be asking

“Alex, why would I buy a 50-year-old lens that has color redition issues or is soft on the corners when the lenses of today are perfect, clean and more advanced?”

The main reason I’ve fallen in love with vintage lenses is exactly for that reason, they are not perfect. Years ago lenses were made by hand. Each lens had its own personality. Many of them have beautiful mistakes that made them stand out.

Case in point Stanley Kubrick. If you watch A Clockwork Orange you’ll notice a wide shot as the doorbell rings about 20min into the film. The crazy wide shot was filmed with a Kinoptik 9.8 F2.3. The lens is far from perfect but it has character. Kubrick was more focused on achieving an interesting shot rather than a perfect one. This coming from a legendary perfectionist.

Kubrick lenses collection was made up of most vintage lenses. He would buy 10 copies of the same lenses, test them all and pick the best of the bunch and return the rest.

Using vintage lenses can also take the “digital bite” off of modern-day camera sensors. The best thing about getting into vintage glass is the cost. You can get a beautiful “nifty 50mm” for between $20-$80. They’re literally thousands of lenses you can choose from, each one special in its own way.  Vintage lenses can truly give your film a unique look and make you stand out from the crowd.

Today’s guest Alan Besedin has been running in the filmmaking trenches for years and runs my go-to resource for vintages lenses VintageLensesforVideo.com. I’ve watched every video and read every article on the site. It’s a wealth of info.

Also please support Alan’s amazing work by donating, even a dollar, to his Patreon. (www.patreon.com/VintageLensesForVideo)

So enjoy my conversation with Alan Besedin from VintageLensesforVideo.com.

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Now today's guest runs one of the best sites I've seen for vintage lenses for video, it's actually called vintagelensesforvideo.com. And the man who runs it is Alan Besedin and he's been doing this for probably three, four or five years now, I think. And he's been going deep into vintage lenses, I've scoured his site, and I've watched every video he's put out, read every article, and it's a great place to get your feet wet. If you're interested in looking for vintage lenses, at a good price, you can see what they look like you can see what they look like on a on a Panasonic jif gh four on a Sony Blackmagic he does multiple tests with multiple different cameras, and what the good things are, or the bad things are is very honest about it. And you know, the kind of adapters you need to get and so on. So it's really a great resource. And I want to basically have him on the show and just pick his brain about all the experience he has with vintage lenses and what what he does, he is a professional videographer and photographer and he's he's taking these guys out in the field and really put them through the basis. So this interview lasts almost two hours. I geeked out a bit in this interview. So if you are into lenses and getting the best bang for your buck, this is honestly a masterclass in vintage lenses and what you need to get you can get into I mean, seriously, I've got some lenses I pay 4050 bucks for when I throw them onto the Ursa mini on the Blackmagic on my mouth drops on the floor. I'm like, Are you kidding me? They look great, but we're gonna get into the pluses and minuses of some of these lenses in the interview. So without any further ado, here is my interview with Alan Besedin from vintagelensesforfilm.com. I'd like to welcome to the show Alan besetting How you doing, brother?

Alan Besedin 6:50
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on your show.

Alex Ferrari 6:52
Oh, man, thank you so much for being on the show. I am a huge fan of what you're doing over vintage lenses for video. And it is your fault that I am now addicted to vintage lenses. And I'm like, Well, why don't I just buy this one? And let's try it on this camera on this. Will it work on an Ursa mini? Why not? Let's give it a shot. It started it starts getting it starts getting out of control. And it has been I've now my addiction has gone to plus 30 in less than a month.

Alan Besedin 7:25
Yeah. That's exactly what happened to me. And you are not the first person who got into this kind of addiction. Like you said, it's so easy, because one of the reasons innocence for gate is the affordability. And it's so easy to get addicted just because you can afford them,

Alex Ferrari 7:46
Right! It's like oh, it's just 50 bucks. Oh, it's just 30 bucks. Oh, you know, and then when you're getting and when you're getting really Froggy. It's like oh 100 150 bucks.

Alan Besedin 7:57
And then you see you see like a lens kit, like a camera kit. Someone said on eBay. They're all camera Keith and they have like five lenses in there. Oh, that's not 100

Alex Ferrari 8:10
Well, the reason I wanted to have you on the show is not only because of, you know your knowledge of vintage lenses and stuff, but I really wanted to kind of show filmmakers that you don't need to buy super expensive gear to to get a good image especially lenses and lenses are more expensive mo a lot of the time than the cameras most of the times are more expensive, even to get a decent prime set is sometimes much more expensive than the actual camera you're going to be using it on. So I know that that kind of scares off a lot of filmmakers but when this kind of opened up my eyes I was like wow, you can you can get good image you can get a really good clean image and also you can get some very unique images as well depending on what you're going for so so before we get started, how did you get how did you start vintage lenses for video comm

Alan Besedin 9:02
Okay, so I think back in 2009 when canon five D Mark two came out. That was my first transition into video from photography. Up to that point, I was never really inspired by what I was able to film with affordable cameras. So as soon as I got into the video side I kind of started exploring the options just because like I say, while modern lenses even like Canon EF glass can be really expensive. And and I was mostly using you know the the standard zoom that everyone did like the Canon EF 24 to 105 for most of my work, and it was okay. It's still a good lens, but it's not particularly inspired wire in. Right so good word to use. And I felt, you know that the focus ring wasn't really pleasant to use, they do. And same with other Canon EF lenses that the autofocus in is great, and they just didn't care about making the manual focusing features on those lenses, just because no one will really use them. And just by chance, I got hold of two very cheap vintage lenses. And as soon as I try them for the first time I was hooked, the boxing rings were smooth, long, focused rows, you know, like manual aperture adjustment, which on, some of them is already clicked or easily to clickable. Build quality. For example, I once broke a Canon EF 51.4 from just the light knock, the very light knock at just just snapped the connection of where motor connects to the focusing or whatever. Just probably just a small plastic bar just broke and that's it.

Alex Ferrari 11:18
And how much is it? How much how much is that lens? New?

Alan Besedin 11:22
The Canon the F 51.4. Yeah, about three $350 maybe a bit more. Okay. And Canon FD so the old version of Canon lenses 51.4 is about $50. So you see how what difference you're looking at in price

Alex Ferrari 11:42
And the quality and the quality is is

Alan Besedin 11:45
And the build quality is just completely different. So again, I just I was looking at those lenses that paid 10 $20 for and they were fully metal amazing focus rings interested in image and actually pretty good optical quality as well. Obviously, with vintage lenses, most of the time optical quality is not not the main factor why you choose them, especially with the cheap ones because obviously modern lenses are perfect. They are computer designed and everything super precise. But if you spend a little bit more, there are still vintage lenses out there that can outperform modern lens in terms of optical quality and also have addition of that character. You know the kind of look that a lot of people desire.

Alex Ferrari 12:44
What is it so can you can you give me an example of a lens that, that you that you you bought a vintage lens that optically competed or surpassed a modern version of itself?

Alan Besedin 12:57
Well, the easiest example is back when I still had access to the Canon EF 51.4. fairly popular Canon lens for photographers and video people who use Canon cameras. I tested that against a much cheaper nicor 51.4 The Nico Yeah, yeah. olympos 51.4 there was a test that you can find on my website.

Alex Ferrari 13:25
Sure, man. Minolta two is also another good one.

Alan Besedin 13:28
Oh, amazing. Yeah. And, and Canon AV as well. But at the time, I still had my Canon five D Mark two camera, so I wasn't able to get into as many lenses as I can. Now. And even then nicor outperformed the more than canon in terms of sharpness, wide open right away. And it was very easy example. Obviously, as years went, and I kept discovering more and more lenses. And lately, looking into Zeiss contact lenses. I discovered all this other amazing lenses that can outperform more than equivalent, or at least more than lenses that cost as much. So for example, you can either buy a cheap, modern prime, or for that money, you can buy a fairly high end car call size contacts, Brian, that back in the day would have cost $2,000 or something like that. And now you can buy for 200.

Alex Ferrari 14:41
Right. So as opposed to buying a row as opposed to buying a rokinon for 300 bucks. Cinema lens you can buy it

Alan Besedin 14:49
And you look at the forums and there were a few places where I've seen that be the question being asked not just on my groups, but in like filmmaker forums and Stuff like that. And people just ask everyone else. Should I buy a rokinon? Or like a Zeiss contacts? vintage lens? And each person just, you know just says size? Because it's they're well known good size? Amazingly, yeah. All right. Well, I have nothing against working on I had one of them when they first when the first one came out the 35 millimeter Yeah, loved it. For the money back then it had all these amazing things like, you know, this again, smooth focusing ring and Apogee Jasmine is great performance. I have absolutely nothing against modern lenses, especially the ones that are kinda designed for video side.

Alex Ferrari 15:49
The cinema like the cinema series, I have a full set of rokinon Cinema series. And they're fine. They're great. But when you compare them to add more

Alan Besedin 15:57
Money, I would have that full set 100% is just that. I can't afford every single lens I want.

Alex Ferrari 16:06
Ohh my friend, you and me both.

Alan Besedin 16:10
Yeah, so it obviously it's the right lens for the right job. If you have access to many lenses to choose from, you will not always choose the vintage lens. There are things there are jobs, that project where modern lens will be better. They give ultra clean footage. They are ultra sharp. So something like be effects, you know, yes. stuff, we need super high contrast, super clean image because you will be adding all of that impulse,

Alex Ferrari 16:43
A sci fi show like I just did a sci fi show. And I was I shot it with the sigma, the Sigma zooms the new sigma cinemas. Yes. They're gorgeous. And but they're perfect. And I would have never in a million years attempted to shoot a show like this with with vintage glass.

Alan Besedin 17:00
It just didn't make sense. It didn't make sense. Yeah, try add in any additional elements today footage already has massive flats on it, it's impossible. You have to get a clean image and then add all of that and post. But if project is something where it's narrative, and unnatural music video or some creative film, where you know you will not be adding any extra elements in post, but you wanted to have character you want to have. So then, for me, you can't beat a good vintage lens because nothing beats in camera flares in camera characteristics like little artifact, little imperfections that give it that little bit of magic, which takes you away from the reality.

Alex Ferrari 17:51
Absolutely. Now let me ask you what, you mentioned a few of the benefits of buying a vintage glass. But can you go over another long, long throw is really good D clicked aperture a lot of times the look what else other in price? I mean, we have so much for one of the other lists. What do you think

Alan Besedin 18:11
So to recap, the main reasons I think, affordability character, build quality and usability. And to break that down a little bit. Vintage lenses again, are super cheap. Not all of them but there are plenty there's lots to choose from that are very cheap, you can buy a mini set for $100 like let's say maybe 28 millimeter 50 millimeter, maybe 145 millimeter something to start with. And you can start shooting getting great images. Obviously as you discover your lenses or you have bit more budget you can spend 1000s if you want or if you get into being the senior lenses then you know the the prices are just absolutely crazy because they how popular they are nowadays. But the point is that you can start at the very low end and get great cinematic images because you always want to choose primes if you can for you know like cinema. Cinema purposes will generally outperform zooms unless they are more than zooms obviously like you mentioned sigma zooms they're amazing. Engineer engineer. Oh, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 19:28
Even even the vintage engineers are pretty insane.

Alan Besedin 19:31
Yeah, that one thing they have is character. And it's amazing. You know, the especially those super 16 ones.

Alex Ferrari 19:40
Yeah, I just got one it's on it's on its way. I just got well it's on its way.

Alan Besedin 19:44
Yeah. It's like It's like being back in a day. You know when shooting them?

Alex Ferrari 19:49
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, there's so much character and I mean, even if you want to start spending, you know, it all depends on pricing. I mean, like you say you could buy I bought the cheapest one I bought is 50 bucks, and I pop it on and I'm like, You got to be kidding me. Like, this looks perfectly fine. It looks great. And then the most I've spent is 500. On the canoptek 5.70. Yeah. Which I just love that Lance. Absolutely love it. So

Alan Besedin 20:20
So, you know, um, I think what today in my review, I think, I don't remember now, but I think it was used on some, you know, fairly interesting projects that were the five points didn't break use it for some stuff. Well, yeah, so

Alex Ferrari 20:36
The stuccos, I actually did a, I'm doing a review online as well, because the reason I got is because of Kubrick, because Kubrick shot, the shining, and parts of the shining lots of the parts of the shining like the the famous Hall scenes and the the maze scene and stuff like that with the canoptek 9.8, which is a 35 millimeter version of it. And he also shot a tremendous amount of Clockwork Orange with it. Shockingly, because I remember like the scene right before the, the singing in the rain sequence, as we call it. In Clockwork Orange, I saw it, and he just like kind of did a little dolly across. But you can see the softness on the edges. And I'm like, you could actually see the softness on the edges. But for someone like Kubrick, who, who was, you know, obviously a master one of the great masters and giants of, of the film industry. And he was so perfectionist. I mean, he's such a perfectionist of what he was trying to do. To let that go said something, you know, he wasn't interested completely in a, at a perfect image. He was interested in an interesting image that helped tell the story. And that's what vintage glass gets you Do you agree?

Alan Besedin 21:55
Absolutely. And that lens is a perfect sample of something very special and very unique that again, you can kind of mimic and post but now you know, you can't be the real thing.

Alex Ferrari 22:08
It's hard to I mean, just so everyone who's listening, the the Synoptic 5.7. mil is a extremely wide lens, but it does not fisheye, which is a very unique thing. And it's something that cannot really can't be ignored too much. But I'm dying to shoot like a chase sequence and like imagine why imagine watching the Point Break chase sequence, the foot Chase, shot shot, and that by I'm kind of sad, I didn't use mine enough. Did you get rid of yours?

Alan Besedin 22:44
I had to just because with what I do, I have to rotate the lenses, I can't keep all of them. So to be able to afford something else to review to try to explore. To get my knowledge up. I have to sell some of my lenses in order to get something new. So unfortunately there are a lot of lenses had to let go. Otherwise, you know, I wouldn't be where I am with my current exploration like buying Zeiss lenses. Right? Yeah, cuz you buys

Alex Ferrari 23:18
It because I see some of these on your site. And I was like, Wow, those those aren't cheap.

Alan Besedin 23:24
Yeah, at the moment, I don't have any relationships with any rental companies or any lens brands, or anything that that could, you know, you know, I could borrow a lens from and, you know, review it tried, you know, at the moment, pretty much, you know, 99% of lenses that you see on our side are the ones I actually bought myself, you know, and had to had to pay the full price. usually only me.

Alex Ferrari 23:50
Right, exactly. And a lot of a lot of the lenses if not all the most of the lenses I think that you you reviewed or are looked at are not for rental generally speaking like, you know, if the kind of like the go find a rental of a 5.7 synoptic. It exists. I'm in LA so it's here. But it's rare, and it's hard, but like the Helios is in which we'll get into in depth or are or these older, like, you know, where are you going to go get a Minolta rental.

Alan Besedin 24:25
My goal is mostly to bring the lenses that most people will be able to afford. That's that's kind of how I hope to do this thing. But eventually over all resale. We'll get into high end ceiling glass that you probably can only rent but still it I'm sure it will be useful to people you know trying to choose to get inspired as to you know maybe what they want to choose for the next project. Absolutely Well, yeah, I'm definitely hoping that I will establish a relationship with a rental company eventually, where, you know, I will be able to, you know, to grab some sets like Zeiss superspeed, or COVID, bang girls or some other classic SR lenses. And, you know, try them, compare them, and give my own take on, you know what they are, like,

Alex Ferrari 25:27
Where and where you look where you look at it, by the way,

Alan Besedin 25:29
I'm, I'm in London, just kind of on the edge of it. But there are plenty of places here, where I would do it is just at the moment, I'm busy enough with my own glass, I still feel hungry, I still feel inspired by, you know what I have here in my hand. So I don't feel like I really need to get into external, you know, kind of rentals. Yeah, to try and keep this going. There's still so many lenses that I want to discover and share that I can kind of afford. So that's where it's going.

Alex Ferrari 26:08
So. So let's talk about the healios 4458 millimeter. You are a healios junkie. So I self diagnose Helios junkie. And I actually purchased the healios I got a 44 M and I've got 344 K's coming, I think or twos I think no 40 twos coming. is the is the most common one. Yeah, and I got three, there was a set of three MIT ones, and I bought them for 45 bucks. So it's

Alan Besedin 26:43
never too many. So I got a friend, right? That's what I was gonna do. They just they just amazed and I just I'm, like you said the self proclaimed ambassador for those lenses? Yes. Unfortunately, no one is paying me but I just want to share the love for that lens because I think everyone should discover that lens. So

Alex Ferrari 27:05
Talk to me a little bit of why it's such a magical lens, not only because it's a completely affordable and it's easily the most produced lens in the history of LEDs.

Alan Besedin 27:17
Probably they just the supply doesn't end it. It really one of the obviously really important reasons why so many people have them.

Alex Ferrari 27:26
Do you know that you want to hear a quick story I was talking to, you know, Matt duclos? Matthew dewclaws. Yeah, from from duclos lens. I was talking to him the other day. And he's like, Hey, we were offered, because I tell him about the Helios is and he's like, yeah, we were offered like probably like 1000 or 2000 healios a package of you know, that they could do whatever they want rehouse them, and you know, all this stuff. And he kind of ignored it. He's like, no, it's not what we do. And you know, he kind of passed on it. Then all of a sudden, dog dogshit lenses or optics came along. And and he's like, Oh, so that's where they went? Maybe? No, that's exactly what it is. It's exactly where they would they went. They started off with that 1000 or 2000 of those vintage aliases to start making people buy them. The dogs, the dogs? I don't Yeah, I know. They're expensive. They're too expensive. I'm

Alan Besedin 28:15
Happy enough with with as it is, I think it's already a incredible lens as it is obviously dogshit optics adds a lot of little additions to those lenses. Yeah, sure, sure. But the price is ridiculous. It's I mean, I mean, for professional production, if you want to use this lens on an Alexa or something like that, we needed to have a robust built, quality, nice focusing ring, all those sorts of things. Yes, makes sense. But for an average user, why an occasional use, I think the the helius 4040, as it is, is fine. He has the clicked aperture, although a strange one, because it kind of goes the other way around. It's something that's called preset aperture, someone that they used back in the day for photography purposes, purposes where you would set your aperture, then rotate the ring, to open it up completely to help you with focusing and quickly step it down to your preferred stop for actual taking of the picture. So it's something that was never intended to be clicked aperture. But to ask filmmakers it became you know that the click capture that we really wanted. And you can you can add a obviously a focus gear to that lens and even a PL mount can be added to that. So you know, for occasional use even on head camera, you can totally use that lens as it is.

Alex Ferrari 29:52
Right! I mean if you if you're on a $200 million movie, not so much but if you're on an indie movie, you can create a nice set of these kind of lens Yeah, to make it work. So what makes it so magical in Europe? I know the answer. But I want the audience to understand why. What's so magical about it as far as the image quality and what it gives you the character. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Alan Besedin 30:24
Okay, so being a Russian made lens, the word is that the optical performance as far as sharpness is a bit inconsistent, because back in, you know, USSR days, they, you know, the quality control wasn't that great. So, although my one or at least one of my copies is incredibly sharp, wide open. That's not necessarily its strongest point. its strongest point, though, is its character, which extends into so many directions, from just the most incredible trees and flowers that, you know, just take you absolutely elsewhere. It's not, you're looking somewhere with your eyes, and then you point that lens at the same thing, especially if have some low sun or something like that in the scene. And it just, it just takes you to this dream world where, you know, complete transforms the image, and then obviously, you probably know already has the most amazing swirly bouquets.

Alex Ferrari 31:31
Mm, the bulk, the bulk, I guess, that's it. It hasn't how many blades? It has luck with eight blades.

Alan Besedin 31:39
There. Yes, it has eight blades. There is a version with 13 blades that I don't have at the moment. It's a bit more expensive. What

Alex Ferrari 31:48
Is the version of this that I want that one? What's the name? Just like the early silver foil, which is the silver healios icecaps. Okay, seeing those as a silver one. Hmm,

Alan Besedin 31:58
I have I have a few silver, Helios 40 fours, but none of them is a 13. Blade version. It's really difficult to find one without seller actually knowing that he's selling that 13 blade one, right? Yeah, the people who actually know that there Helios is a 13 blade one a they charge, you know, at least 100 bucks for one, which is, which is you know, two three times more than an average on eBay. Is

Alex Ferrari 32:28
Is it worth it? Is it worth it?

Alan Besedin 32:30
Not really. It's more of, you know, like, I want this special one thing, you know, and there are plenty of people who will want this special Haley's thing. As far as, as far as mocha goes, I don't think there is much difference at all, because even the a blade helius 44. has great bokeh even stop down. There is no unpleasant shape to it at all. I think it stays fairly around in the middle. And everyone knows what swirl is maybe not in terms of bokeh. Maybe not everyone saw that. But if you google helius 44 inches, yeah, you both you really quickly understand what it is. And it's another thing that it's impossible to see with the eyes. And a lens gives you that playing which is which is so amazing, which is what it's all about, you know, when choosing lenses, it's try It's that thing that you can see with your eyes.

Alex Ferrari 33:38
Now that the the other rumor on the street was that during after World War Two, the Russians that occupied East Germany they actually went in and to this ice, this ice factory and stole the formula for

Alan Besedin 33:56
That is absolutely true. Actually, you know, there are many ways toward it. Some people are more gentle about it. Some people you know, can be you know, quite aggressive about what happened. But it more or less that that is the thing that happened. A lot of rationed lenses including the Helios 44 were based on Zeiss formulas from the day

Alex Ferrari 34:23
And that's why they look amazing

Alan Besedin 34:25
Yet yes, so actually yeah, that's that's the whole background of why this lens is so amazing.

Alex Ferrari 34:31
Is the Jupiter is a Jupiter have that similar situation?

Alan Besedin 34:35
Yes, Jupiter is also based on as Icelands as is the tire 11 145 millimeter and, and even the mirror one, which is like a 20 millimeter. I have

Alex Ferrari 34:52
That one. It's amazing.

Alan Besedin 34:53
Yeah, all of them actually. Well, most of them. I'm not going to claim that every single one of them is based on size by Most of these lenses from that age are at least in some way based on design in alternatives some of them will have slightly different speed or maybe slightly different focal length. But, you know, in overall, they are concise copies. And that, I guess, is another really important reason why they look so amazing.

Alex Ferrari 35:34
Yeah, that that Mere 120 mil I got, I paid 150 for it. So it was probably one of the more expensive ones I got. But it's it's solid, it feels like a city prime in my hand, it's super solid, the images gives you is amazing. And you're looking at literally a 20 mil for 150 bucks, that that gets

Alan Besedin 35:57
A full frame 20 mil as well. People forget, because I lately have reviewed like my last review was a Canon FD 17 millimeter 3.5. So 17 millimeter 3.5 in modern world sounds a bit underwhelming because you look at all this. cameras that come with good lenses, you know, on the low end. And the good lenses like 17 to 50 or something like that, right? And people like so Why the hell would I buy a 17 millimeter 3.5 Prime when I want to have my kids lens? A lot of people ignore the fact that vintage lenses, especially the ones from the photo world are mostly full frame. So try getting a 20 millimeter frame prime for 200 bucks

Alex Ferrari 36:47
Or two eight I think it's too late. If not faster.

Alan Besedin 36:52
Yeah, there is there is a version that is two eight. I don't know which one you have. But there is a version that is two eight and if you pay 853 I did lucky man

Alex Ferrari 37:03
I did. I did know it is a two and no, it's not a three because I barely get anything that's over three. I always get at least two at that one.

Alan Besedin 37:11
That one is should be at least double the price. Wow. This is you know some of them I get get kinda you know in. In lenses are posted on eBay. Sometimes some will describe it in slightly wrong way or doesn't understand what is selling? Oh yeah, there's a few of those as part of the package. And there are some real gems that can slip through the system. And that's the way I've picked up so many of my lenses. Yes, some time but I think generally pays off.

Alex Ferrari 37:49
So because we can geek out about lenses for another two hours. So I want to get to some questions about specific things. So hopefully the audience could get some help with if you were gonna choose three lenses that you had to have in your set vintage, why would which ones would they be and why?

Alan Besedin 38:08
Primaries primes, okay, okay, there is a video of my three go to lenses that I've made a year ago just learns that I pick up the most they're not necessarily the ones that I would have in a set about just quickly run through them and maybe give you another option. So the lens that I had in my video my go to lens that I pick up the most to actually use, where the Canon ft 50 millimeter 1.4 with a focal reducer, like, like the meta bone speed booster but like a cheaper version. So in theory I had when I use it on Super 35 millimeter camera in theory, I had a 36 millimeter f 1.0 Prime out of out of that combination. So basically for $200 or so complete package with a focal reducer there I had this incredibly fast prime that I could use for low light for all sorts of you know, beautiful shoulder to fill shots. And I've used that lens combination for years for work just whenever I needed you know, a nice looking image or any like a low light monster. So that was that was one that I use for you know, almost every job until recently now that I kind of went back to full frame and I still use the lens but I kind of dropped the fork or reduce a part of it because no longer needed. The second lens was si ce Jenna 45 millimeter f 2.4. So that's Zeiss, Jen is like the lower range The Zeiss lenses a lot of people call them they say are not real size because they were made in the I believe the occupied part of Germany where so basically the size kind of split into two sections. One side had this Zeiss Jenner range and another part had Zeiss Contax which was the like the high end stuff. But even even the size Jenner lenses are still made by Zeiss engineers, you know, they were still based on Zeiss formulas. So

Alex Ferrari 40:38
And they're and they're pretty good. I mean, I was gonna ask you I had a Carl Zeiss agenda question for you because I kept seeing the so many different Carl Zeiss, quote unquote lenses. And then we see the real like super expensive 2000 $3,000 Carl Zeiss and I wanted to know what your if you knew what the difference was between the Jenna and the and the other ones and are Jenna good? Are Is that a good set to have?

Alan Besedin 41:02
I actually I'm currently working on a one an article which is based on a called Zeiss, Jenna said, so the goal was to kind of create a mini series set out of Alsace channel lenses. So to click in them, add in Canon EF mounts to them you know, adding like a universal France to them. So all of them have same same France size, focus ring. So basically like a mini seanie set that is based on Carl Zeiss genestealer lenses. So and and the goal was to kind of do it all under $1,000, which I think for a meaning of I said, Yeah, this is great for for something that is, you know, just ready to go then and insured.

Alex Ferrari 41:58
And would you argue that they're better quality than a broken onset, and I don't keep meaning to beat up broken up. But

Alan Besedin 42:03
I wouldn't say that they're better than rokinon they definitely have more character. images that are definitely a bit more interesting. They are slower, which is the downside rokinon also probably are sharper. But I think the build quality is a bit better. Because even though they're not as nice contacts, they still all metal, they still have like nice, nice long, long foxin throw and, you know, generally smooth focusing rings, you know, I don't think you can buy a rokinon set for 1000 at least not to

Alex Ferrari 42:41
1800 to 2000 for like a four to five

Alan Besedin 42:45
So with with Zeiss Jenna, you will get 2035 5080 millimeter and a 135 for under 1000 including the cost of your gears, your deck leaking, your Eve AF noun. So this is the whole thing. So, you know, that's kind of just to answer your question about design gentlemen's that I think they are good enough for they will be good enough for a lot of people. And that's what I decided to kind of concentrate on them in particular to create this guide that I'm working on, hopefully will be out soon to, you know, to help people see what they can do you know, for just $1,000

Alex Ferrari 43:30
I am I'm definitely eagerly awaiting that article and video.

Alan Besedin 43:36
And so the third lens is with a nice talk about much because the front lens in my go to three Oh, is the Helios 44 two already spoke about it, you know, this is the lens that I will probably always be, you know, you know, people often say you know what, what is the one thing you will take in to deserted island? Is that kind of thing. You know, if it's, there's one lens that you would take, it would always be the Helios 4040 for me. Nice, you

Alex Ferrari 44:07
Now, and what's the difference between the 44 to 44 and 44k? Is there a big difference?

Alan Besedin 44:13
So it started with a 44. That's the original. He, they also had quite a few versions in that like, there was this silver one and then they had some zebra stripes on it. And the black one and obviously the 14 aperture one, you know, there's still lots of little variations in the 44 but that was the original one and then 44 two was like like Mark to kind of thing, okay. And then they added the, as they were upgrading, they dropped the number instead the went with a 44 M. So will M and then like a You know, to M four, and so on. So m would stand for the M 42, mount, the screw mount. And then they have like 44k, like I said that they made it for the Pentax K mount, you know, so probably for export reasons, you know, to just allow more people to use such lenses from different cameras. And again, then you have all sorts of variations when it when to, you know, 44 to 44, m four and so on. Again, there were upgrades little, you know, things that they must have improved. The word is that the sharpness was improving, as you know, there were upgraded to next version.

Alex Ferrari 45:53
So if I were good, so if you were going to get a Helios right now, which which model would you go after?

Alan Besedin 45:59
For me? It still the Helios 44? Two just because for me, it's perfect combination of performance and imperfections, I would say. Because the later versions, they still had really bulky. Well, maybe not all of them. But I think, you know, because I haven't tried all of them. But the thing is that we're trying to improve them. So and with Helios how they wanted to be improved anymore than what it was with the Helios 4040 version. For example, the Helios 40 4am. When when you get it, I don't know if you go in already. Yeah, yeah, you will notice that they change the body design. So the the clickless aperture has gone, because they change how they do the metering on the cameras. So they will no longer needed that preset aperture Jasmine. So now that if you want the Helios to be D clicked, you will have to do it manually, where with 44. Two, it was already there, you know when you bought the lens, got it. So it's just kind of perfect. Another thing, a PL mount. With 44. Two, you could add PL Mount 44 m had a different body design. So PL mount is no longer possible. All sorts of things like that, you know, just little things that that make 44 two, just a perfect combination. Maybe even the focus throw 44 two has this incredible, like 300 degree focus or or something like that? It does, you know, like simulans level? Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 47:39
It's exactly like a Cindy lens almost.

Alan Besedin 47:41
Yeah. Again, I'm not going to claim it, but they might have reduced a little bit in the 44 M or later versions, right. So you know, things that might have been improvements to some, I think two video guys, or someone looking for that specific character lens, not necessarily the things that you want.

Alex Ferrari 48:03
You know, so and then if you had to choose one or two zooms, that vintage zooms that you can under 500, under under three to five, between three and 500 bucks or under 300 bucks, that you think that just makes

Alan Besedin 48:17
A tough question. To be honest, I get asked so much because people are so spoiled with more than zooms in here. And the honest answer is that vintage showrooms generally aren't particularly good. So, I've been looking to find something that I would want to use for a long time, and it has been a struggle, but I'll give you a few options that I think are great. So the first one is the Minolta 35 to 73.5. So by the sound of it, super underwhelming their range, you know what, you know, like, we just get a 50 millimeter, right? much faster. You know, this sounds like you know, it's not it's not quite wide enough. It's not quite tight enough. Like, why would you use it but it's slow. Again, like I said, you don't want to use anything over three, f three. But the lens just has such a beautiful image coming out of it. You know, my

Alex Ferrari 49:28
Metadata is really surprised the hell out of me. I've gotten two monitors so far. And I'm building a little mini set of monitors because it is sharp. It was staggeringly sharp. And, and the image you get is remarkable. And

Alan Besedin 49:46
It's super smooth, beautiful imagery, beautiful flowers really small and cheap. I mean $20 I mean insanely cheap. One of the reasons is unfortunately Really bad compatibility with Canon EF mount cameras, just because like all the flange distance with the Canon EF cameras,

Alex Ferrari 50:12
But it worked great with micro four thirds.

Alan Besedin 50:15
Yeah microphones, Sony emailed one of the best choices. Unfortunately, if it's canon mount that you're after then Minolta and Canon FD lenses are the ones you truly want to avoid. Because converting them to EF properly is a bit costly. And just buying a cheap adapter with correctional element will absolutely ruin the quality of that length. They become slower, I think, or I haven't even tried it so bad. But I think the image gets kind of zoomed in a little bit. It has like a bit of a teleconverter affected. It might lose some Spain as well. But the most important thing the images just become soft.

Alex Ferrari 51:07
So I mean, I just put the I put them in Malta, I think it's the 50 or the 35. I don't remember which one it was. But I threw the EF adapter on it. And I threw the F on to the meta bones. speed. Okay, on a Blackmagic Pocket. Wow, gorgeous. was still still good enough. Stunning. Stunning. That's what I was talking about. I haven't seen it yet on a like on just Micro Four Thirds only have the EF mount.

Alan Besedin 51:35
Yeah, I mean, if you take out the AF mount out of equation, yeah. Because no one probably has this optical element inside it.

Alex Ferrari 51:42
Yes, it does.

Alan Besedin 51:44
Yeah, if you get rid of that, you it will be like taking off blurry glasses. From you know, from your eyes. It's just you will pick up so much chocolates, then

Alex Ferrari 51:55
So actually, I could just actually just go to an F Minolta the monitor to micro four thirds, it'll be better.

Alan Besedin 52:03
Yeah, will obviously be better. I'm sure. Meta bones helps booster if you have he has people such as

Alex Ferrari 52:10
People. So yeah,

Alan Besedin 52:11
Yeah, so. So I think speed booster might be kind of taking out some of that negative effect, you will get in with the with a cheap EF mount thing. But yeah, just get rid of get rid of the F mount. And just go straight into the monitor first. And just be so much sharper, clearer, less ghosting. And, you know, all sorts of artifacts that genuine not particularly pleasant. So, so come back to that Minolta lens. And the reason why I recommend it, it's not, it's not just because I like it. Leica actually liked that lens. So much they used it for the own 4570 zoom back in the day when they were making like our zooms, result, you know, if you need a proof, that distance is great. This is the proof for you, you know if like I thought that was good enough for them good enough optical formula to use on their own lenses, that you know, that's good enough for me. So you know, there are those little gems and that lens is like 50 bucks in the Minolta finish really in like our it's probably 10 times more. And it's it probably will not have that much difference because it's the same optical kind of formula, maybe slight different coating but but you know, there are those little gems that you can still pick up for $50 and less and maybe some little bit more. But they they they are just this amazing things that you can discover if you look into interferences.

Alex Ferrari 53:55
Now, let's talk about bounce real quick because I know that is a big thing. A lot of filmmakers trying to get into vintage lenses have issues with and I've had my challenges with different mounts. Can you talk a little bit about the most popular mounts and the easiest to adapt mounts and then which mounts you should kind of stay away from.

Alan Besedin 54:17
So like I said, if you are a Canon EF mount user B Academy of camera or maybe something like an Ursa mini f mount or anything like that. Then three mounts that you generally want to avoid in vintage world Minolta MD, Canon FD and konica ir are the most kind of popular mounts that you should avoid just because you have massive problems getting the most out of those lenses, you can still buy those adapters that you are using. And you might think oh this is fine. But you are not getting the most out of those lenses. If you are using them on Canon EF mount or, or via a Canon EF adapter. Got it? So these are the ones that you want to avoid. They are great. They are fine for mirrorless

Alex Ferrari 55:13
Yeah, for like micro for micro four thirds and things. Yeah.

Alan Besedin 55:15
And in fact they are, I recommend them for mirrorless because of how underrated they are. Just because Canon EF such a massive mount in the cinema world, you know, like you can buy one for red epic, you know, oh,

Alex Ferrari 55:33
No Alexa

Alan Besedin 55:35
Blackmagic cameras shown with it, you know, such a massive mount. And obviously, people look into the lenses that are compatible with that mount this way. The this like can can live de Minolta, once they kind of say slide in the shadow. So you can pick them up cheaper. But for my preferred or Sony amount, but if you want to build a set of lenses that you can use on anything, then m 42 screw mount is one of the best options, because you can put almost any adapter on top of that you can put f you can put any mirrorless mount and that up to some very cheap and straightforward because it's a screw mount. Some are the mounts have quite complicated mechanisms like the Canon FD. So the mounted, the adapters themselves either cost more, or they are poorly made. And there's a wobble and stuff like that. With input to screw mount, it's simple screw on mechanism. So there, it's very easy to make the adapter. And even cheap adapters work great. Mostly, you know, I've tried a bunch of different input to adapters for different mounts, and then ever had one that I felt was terrible. Where with other mounts, I would often find that the doctor was quite poor and I had to buy again and again until I could find one that worked well.

Alex Ferrari 57:25
So generally speaking with mounts, you don't want any mount that has glass on it, just speaking. Yeah, because it's a speed insert or something.

Alan Besedin 57:33
Yeah, obviously Yeah, because this glass elements, they are mostly made by companies that have nothing to do with proper lens making. So I don't know where they source them, but not much thought is put into those optical elements with spin boosters, and other some other focal reducers they're much more focused on the quality of that object. So it's usually a good thing to add. But avoid the cheap eBay you know can low and China

Alex Ferrari 58:09
Chinese

Alan Besedin 58:10
on cardboard, you know, if you see an optical if you see an adapter that has glass in it and costs you know 20 bucks, don't expect anything good from it, you know, it's probably will ruin the quality of your lens.

Alex Ferrari 58:25
And you know, they'd like the Minolta one that I got.

Alan Besedin 58:28
Yeah, well you know, you're not the first person to say that they were amazed by the images they got out of the combo. You know, don't get me wrong, you probably are still getting great images for what you paid. You know, but it could be

Alex Ferrari 58:45
but it could be but it could be 20 bucks. Right?

Alan Besedin 58:49
Yeah. But there is you know, I'm fairly sure there is more to your lens than then you think you know, you might think oh this is nice, dreamy character you know this lens has this really interesting look to it. And it might turn out that it's really sharp lens, which maybe not no with what you want. But you know, this is this is not this might not be what this is actually capable.

Alex Ferrari 59:20
Now with the 40 twos is that generally full frame or does it does it matter is it it is almost a full frame all the time.

Alan Besedin 59:27
Yeah. So with with vintage lenses, unless we are looking at 16 millimeter Super 16 or SR lenses. almost exclusively all the other lenses are full frame. So if you are using them on anything smaller than full frame, you can add a speed booster. And this way make it lens faster and wider. And if you have a full frame camera, then again you don't need to worry about lens not covering majority of industrials are full frame. But like I said, you know, that's another great reason. You know what, why you want to spend maybe even 200 bucks on on a 17 millimeter 3.5 even though it doesn't sound like like a cool lens in the first instance.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:22
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. But it's a full frame and trying to get a full frame but the modern version, right, right, and

Alan Besedin 1:00:37
let's say you have a super 35 millimeter camera, because that lens is full frame, you can actually becomes much wider than your kid lens. You know, your kid lens, the 17 millimeter the wide end. And you think all you know why? Why would I pay? You know, that $100 for for a 17 millimeter lens. But once you add the speed booster to it, it actually becomes like a 12 millimeter lens.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:06
Mm hmm. Okay, real quick. And we've been talking about speed boosters and meta bones and focal reducers. Can you just explain really quickly to the audience what a speed booster vocal reducer does? So for everybody who doesn't know?

Alan Besedin 1:01:19
Yeah, a lot of people don't understand what it is.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:23
It's quite magical.

Alan Besedin 1:01:24
Yeah, exactly the word I would use. I think it's, it's just one of those things that completely changed it. For me, it just before it came out, I thought I would never think that was possible. Basically, the data were there.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:41
It doesn't make sense.

Alan Besedin 1:01:42
Yeah, so the easiest way to explain it, they are opposite of teleconverters, teleconverter zoom thin into your image. In in that process to get better rich with your lens, usually a telephoto lens, you lose at least one stop of light, or, you know, usually even more, and January your lens becomes softer. With speed boosters, it works the other way around, it pushes the image out, makes it wider. And the special bonus is that it adds one stop of life. How does the word Don't ask me It's magic.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:27
So basically, if you shot with a engineer, point nine, five. Yeah, put a speed booster on it, it becomes zero. No, it's not. You could shoot you could shoot and then you throw that on a Sony A seven as to you literally could see in the dark your bat at that point. Exactly. So, so yeah, so because I

Alan Besedin 1:02:52
put cheap way, it's just a very cheap and great way to make your set of lenses faster and wider. So if you're using microphones in particular, or even like a Blackmagic Pocket camera, where you're really struggling with vintage wide angle lenses is a great way to grab like a 17 millimeter or even a 28 millimeter and just kind of make it that that much wider. So it generally pushes the image out by 0.7 I think around that, you know some of them do more, some of them do less. But basically, instead of having like I said a 50 millimeter, it becomes a 36 millimeter and so on, you know, it's in your water instead of 17 millimeter becomes a 12 millimeter. So you know, this kind of great benefits for crop sensor cameras.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:46
Yeah, I mean I have my pocket camera and I put my Sigma 18 to 35 on it with a speed booster. And that turns into an 11 I think 11 to 22 or something or 23

Alan Besedin 1:03:56
Yeah, if your speed boost is the special one I was worried for the pocket camera thing it hasn't been pushed. So yeah, it becomes a fully usable zoom on on the pocket camera. It's insane. It's it's pretty and if you if you try to get anything like that four pocket camera from the vintage world, I did a review as ice 11 to 100 sR lens and you know it it becomes very expensive. So if you actually use in any crop sensor camera, I highly highly recommend looking into lenses that you can combine with some sort of focal reducer or speed booster because it you know, it will save you a lot of money in the long run.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:47
Real quick one other popular mount that I wanted to kind of talk about was a sea mount. That is an it's basically if I'm not mistaken and I've learned this the hard way going through my my journeys in the vintage world. The sea mount is is essentially a 16 or super 16 millimeter mount correct? Generally, yes, generally, and then a covers like, because I have my pocket camera, which is great. So you when you get when you buy a 17, you get a 17, when you buy a 35, you get a 35 on the pocket camera, because it's it's a smaller lens, it would only work on a smaller sensor, but the quality, the the lens quality you can get at that smaller range is higher than a lot of times you would get the equivalent of a 35 or a full frame. Is that correct? Yeah,

Alan Besedin 1:05:34
just just before we would go into the more. So if the focal length as as the number always stays the same, but obviously, the crop effect correct, how much more zoomed in, you're into that focal range. So I think the way I would go about it is that, let's say, a 17 millimeter that is designed for the super, super well sort of 16 it the way they designed it, it was designed to look great on that kind of, you know, sensor or size of film, you know, it will have its follow for whatever it will have its sharpness and everything optimized for that particular size, where if you're taking a 17 millimeter that was designed for full frame, you are basically cropping in into the very middle of the lens. So you are losing a lot of maybe that character and other things that that lens has, because you are only using this central portion of the lens. So this is this is one of the reasons why I would recommend looking to CMR lenses if you're using a pocket camera or digital books. Because one when you use those lenses on those cameras, you know you get the full you are using the full lens. Can you use them?

Alex Ferrari 1:07:03
Can you use a C mount on a like a gh four or gh five.

Alan Besedin 1:07:07
You can use C mount on these cameras very easily. But not many will be close to covering the sensor. There are some exceptions, I think that might cover the sensor, or at least in a slide crop mode like a let's say gh for 4k mode. No way cops in a bit more. Generally, we see Mount lenses, you want to go into that. What is it called electronic conversion mode from

Alex Ferrari 1:07:40
a PC mode or something like that. Yeah,

Alan Besedin 1:07:43
yeah, something like that way it really pushes into the image. So you can kind of use it and you can even use similar lenses on some of the Sony cameras nowadays. Because they have let's say a 6500 it's already a super 35 size sensor, but it also have the clear zoom ability because the 4k camera you can kind of push in into that image and still get decent quality by using a lens that was designed for much smaller sensor right there. lenses and you know, I think as as the time goes, there are more and more cameras that you can explore them with. It doesn't have to be digital Bullock's or Blackmagic Pocket camera anymore. anymore cameras they can explore them with

Alex Ferrari 1:08:35
Yeah, I got the can Pollard's Swiss the Swiss star lenses. Obviously the kev sixteens those those work the F 16 set work on a on Super 35

Alan Besedin 1:08:51
they will not cover it will be massive in yet but again with some cameras you can crop in Shinto the image and like the 20 millimeter and the 50 millimeter from that key offset will cover I think they cover like gh for something like that, or at least like a slide crop mode.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:10
Well I mean, like I just got I just got the engine new 12 to 120 c mount and it's a it's a stunning lens. I haven't gotten it yet, but I'm hoping and praying it's a stunning lens. But generally speaking it's not a kobrick lens, isn't it? I don't know if it was that specific? Well no he did. The Barry Lyndon one is the think a ridiculous like 15 to 250. Like it's insane. But I think it was an engineer. And but oh wait,

Alan Besedin 1:09:39
I think I think he actually used my 12 to 12 to 14. I had engineer 12 to 1214 I think that's the one he used.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:51
Well, whatever he uses is fine with me. I'm trying to I'm trying to build my same set that he thing.

Alan Besedin 1:09:56
I think you're safe to go with most of this engineered lenses and expect to, you know, get pretty interesting images out of them.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:06
Right? So I was the reason I was saying is like I got it specifically for my my black, the pocket camera knowing that that lens was built for that sensor size, but the cost to buy that lens today is trying to get that kind of and your new quality from from that kind of focal length zoom. today to get that same on a 35 you're talking about 10s of 1000s of dollars, yes,

Alan Besedin 1:10:37
probably 30,000 obviously, it will be different, much, much more superior optically, of course, and you know, all other things that come with it, you know, build quality. And, of course, the price obviously is so different is beyond,

Alex Ferrari 1:10:56
it's under 500 I mean, you can get a really brilliantly nice mid shape one for

Alan Besedin 1:11:02
under 500 bystolic, my 12 to 120. The same one that you got, I sold it for $100 to someone because it had some imperfections. I just kind of passed it on someone else. And I was kind of beating myself up afterwards, you should have been beat up.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:19
Yes, that's my friend that you That was a gift.

Alan Besedin 1:11:23
Yeah, but at the same time, I kind of don't mind because I, you know, it kind of sounds

Alex Ferrari 1:11:29
you spreading the word?

Alan Besedin 1:11:31
Yeah, I know, it kind of sounds like, like, No, I don't know, I'm talking myself, but I do like the idea of, of kind of passing it on. And, you know, spreading the word and, and kind of, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:11:49
an evangelist

Alan Besedin 1:11:50
sheep's brain, you know, connections with people and I know, they will come back to me one day, you know, the same person might want to buy some other lands that I sell off the wards where, you know, it might be better price for me, you know, just kind of thing sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but I think if, if it's something that some another person will enjoy, it's likely that you know, you have created a loyal relationship and they you know, and, and, and you actually help someone explore, you know, lenses that you're passionate about.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:22
I mean, I tell you just from the short I've been probing into the vintage lenses, like seriously for a couple months now doing insane amounts of research much of it on your website. And and I've already started building relationships with lens manufacturers and and you know, had marked Matthew do close on this on the on the on the podcast as well. And we were building a relationship and working together on stuff and it's all because of glass. It's It's It's pretty, it's a pretty magical thing. And I always tell people, it's it's kind of like a paintbrush, like you're buying different paint brushes, too.

Alan Besedin 1:13:00
I think it's a paintbrush. More than anything else, at least in the camera side of things. You know, lighting obviously is, of course, amazing tool that a lot of newbies ignore. I know how long I ignored it for taking it for granted. Thinking lean, I kind of just need to light things up. And that's it. And then realizing that there's an art. Yeah, looking at various Hollywood films and thinking, Oh, wait, everything is sharp. And the same is there is no shoulder to feel and yet there's so much depth. How do they do this? You know, all this? Oh, it's lighting. All the ladies later this part with with the lighting. Five days, when everyone was just shooting at one point for only one I was charged, and that I was already out of focus. And I'm guilty of that, as well. Right, right, fall into that trend. And we all kind of so many people thought this is the thing, you know, that's that's what that's the thing, cinematic image? And it's not, you know, so that obviously, you can't just rely on lenses, right? Well, or just on lighting. Now, why is the camera side goes? I think lenses give you so much to your final image. You know more than camera 100% like so many people say who really know their stuff, including Matt Lucas probably will say the same thing. You know, buy in owning maybe building on knowing a set of lenses, you know, especially if you're going to buy one, it's much more important to buy a set of lenses that you really connect with and that you're passionate about then you know buying a camera because While cameras always upgrade, I think, you know, if you're trying to establish yourself as a person with a certain look, certain thing, lenses definitely give much more than then a camera, you know? Is it our Alexa? Or is it red epic? You know, with a good grade. A lot of people will not be able to tell. But a lens, you know how much it adds to the to either of those cameras? It's like I said before, it's not something that you can genuinely mimicking post.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:40
No, no, absolutely. And I think it's one of the best investments in gear you can make is lenses, because they don't generally lose value, generally speaking over the, I mean, we're still we're still selling and buying lenses from 60 years ago.

Alan Besedin 1:15:58
Yeah. And they were and whenever someone tells me, how is the build quality of that lens? And I'm like, well, it lasted for 3040 years before me. So I'm, it's quite safe to say that the build quality is good.

Alex Ferrari 1:16:13
Right? You know, I'm not sure a lot of these plastic lenses that are being made today are going to be around 50 years from now. Yeah, you know, but there is that that magic to it. It was Matthew was telling me the story of subbies, the amazing cinematographer, legendary cinematographer who told him hey, I want you to rehouse these bald stars for me. And he's like, what and and Matthew actually said, why would you want me to do this? These glasses? This glass is old. It's like 60 year old glass and it's not like it's garbage. Why would you want that? Because I just like to look at them. And so he did. And the second he, he made his he shot I forgot what movie it was with it. But it was a big Hollywood movie shot with the ball stars and it gave it a look that you just could not replicate without them. Like there's nothing you could do moderately to to to do what those lenses did. He told me that set of Duke of ball tires did not stay in. He was rented every day for three years. Like it did not stop. Even now it's just it's in the gear and I saw airy came out with their vintage lens. Vintage lens line for 70 mil or 8k. Yeah, it's like the medium format like but there was it's vintage. So they take vintage glass. Yeah,

Alan Besedin 1:17:35
yeah, I thought a few years when there was when Arri Alexa 65. The big the big, bigger sensor one came out. I saw that again. Also at the show in UK, they were just starting with the idea. On their stand on the Irish stand. I saw a Zeiss Jenna medium format lens. Or just with the SPL mount. Yeah. But still not rehoused. But they were already kind of playing with ODI going back to Oh, you know, maybe we should start recording some of those older lenses. And I guess what you saw a good one, well be in some of the lenses that just a few years ago, were, you know, maybe $100 lens to handle and because no one was using them anymore.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:31
Right. And now their $1,000 lens.

Alan Besedin 1:18:34
And and yeah, I did not invest into that particular set of lessons because I didn't see any need for medium format lenses in my collection. And I think the prices on medium format lenses are now becoming higher and higher, just because we're now again, seeing the trend for biggest sensor cameras. Like the cameras, you know, we can only have so many case in cameras and latitude on this, that and they're looking at, you know, what, what's the next thing that we can do? Because they have to sell cameras? You know, right. Something more, so I'm sure we are moving towards bigger and bigger sensors.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:16
10 12k like, why

Alan Besedin 1:19:19
bigger case and bigger size of the sensor? Yeah, I think that's the next thing. You know, when we were seeing still cameras with bigger with like medium sensors coming out becoming a bit more affordable, more and more companies kind of going back to that size. And, again, we're seeing red, going towards, you know, this division fullframe obviously, Ari have their own offering, and I'm sure we will start seeing this big and bigger sensors from other companies so well. You never know. Blackmagic might jump on That shape and come out with a full frame camera and again, that will give them so much popularity and you know, reach. No, there's never there's never a bad time to invest in TV interference, I would say that friends move in, they the price will only go off. So like you said, it's a great investment.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:22
And one of the few things you can actually invest in, in the film industry that actually will pay you back. cameras. Exactly, definitely that cameras. So, a couple more questions before, before we go. What is the best bang for the buck when it comes to vintage glass in your opinion, like if you were going to, like man for the money, this it's not my man, that'd be the best piece of glass obviously. But for the money you can't go wrong.

Alan Besedin 1:20:54
Generally, I I go with Canon FD lenses. And I have like a buyer's guide on the website where I'm looking at various because Canon FD range is so massive, there's like there are a few versions of each lens like there's 28 millimeter you can buy it in the F two and F 2.8 and F 3.5. There's a 50 millimeter there's many many steps of that lens and and so on every focal range has lots of choices. There are so many focal choices there are some zooms so and they're in a massively affordable and available pretty much everywhere in the world because kind of brand you know, always was a big brand. Right?

Alex Ferrari 1:21:46
But that's the one you stay away from EF mounts right?

Alan Besedin 1:21:49
Yes, unfortunately Yes. Again, if you own EF mount camera this is probably not the choice but for everyone else. I always say you know check out Canon lenses because they have been sort of underrated and the image quality combined with a bit of nice character it's just a great combination that you can use for most work not just for your projects that need you know that vintage character they are nice enough optically for you to take it on a corporate job or something like that. You know they don't usually say all use hideous wood for two for everything because you can't use it for everything. You take it on a corporate job and it will be like you know what the hell for this year you know, right

Alex Ferrari 1:22:37
right right right yeah, you shooting an infomercial with it's gonna be a very

Alan Besedin 1:22:42
interesting I have a claim that you know, the vintage lenses or like Helios is the lens for everything you know, there is the right lens for the right job and what I recommend something as a general usually, Canon FD is the set of lenses that I recommend that you can use for more things. If you are on EF camera, then I will generate recommend Zeiss Gen lenses because they are m 42 mount and you can use them on pretty much everything and this as affordable escandon empty and they have nice sharpness, they have nice,

Alex Ferrari 1:23:23
their full frame

Alan Besedin 1:23:24
contrast their full frame, they have vibrant colors, and still enough character. And then if you someone on slightly higher level and you want to use again have a set that you can use for pretty much anything. The next step is the Carl Zeiss contacts These are some of the highest end stills lenses that are becoming more and more popular with the senior world just because of how incredible they are optically.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:02
What is it like what is it what is a 20 mil or a 35 or 50 mil run generally speaking so people understand

Alan Besedin 1:24:10
well again, there is a good why contacts size is a good option is because again you have a nice range of lenses that you can choose from so f 35 2.8 is fairly affordable it's I think around 250 I know it's not I don't it's not super cheap for vintage lens. But for Zeiss lens it's a really good price. Oh

Alex Ferrari 1:24:36
my god try to get a try to get a Zeiss CP two you're talking about a $2,000 excuse me, no. What am I talking about three to $5,000 the pack,

Alan Besedin 1:24:49
but even even even size, you know, like just like slightly upgraded Zeiss lenses like I think Effie Steel syringe even they apparently they are mostly based on size contacts, lenses, while some of them anyway and they run you know at much higher price. So if you have a little bit more cash spend, you know, you're serious about you know earning money from from your filming and you want to set that, you know, you can take on pretty much any job, then sighs contacts is definitely one of my highest recommendations. The only other brand that I haven't explored at all yet is the Leica R. It's the only other option that is even slightly more high end than last contact. They're expensive, but they're expensive, just on their rate in terms of popularity and respect. Yeah, but it's much more affordable. And there are more options to choose from. You know, there are a lot there's like a 20, a 2.8. There's a 35 2.8 there's an incredible 51.7, which might not sound special, but it's incredible optically. There's an 85 2.8 and a 135 2.8. So they might not sound super fast, but again, combine them with a speed booster. And you've got yourself a super nice set for probably not that much more than $1,000. That's ridiculous. A bit more than than Zeiss Jenner, but not that much more.

Alex Ferrari 1:26:33
And what is the sharpest vintage lens you've ever tested?

Alan Besedin 1:26:38
mildly? funnily enough, one of the sharpest inserts that I've used is AB Rita, and VSI. On Brian is that

Alex Ferrari 1:26:47
I love avatars. I have mine. I got 135 it is gorgeous.

Alan Besedin 1:26:52
Yeah, they are so underrated. I actually forgot to talk about them. Because even I forget about them.

Alex Ferrari 1:26:58
They're Japanese, they're Japanese lens company.

Alan Besedin 1:27:02
Lenses. This is the brand, one of the main brands that never actually design their own lenses. They used, I think, almost 20 different manufacturers to make lenses for them. So the problem will be the time there is a massive inconsistency because only certain brands produced incredible gems. And some other brands produced very general soft tissue lenses. So unless you really research review the tires. You know you can buy one and be disappointed and kind of forget about the brand because you didn't know that. You know it's not it's not as much as about the brand as about who made the lens for that brand. So there is a Vivitar 90 millimeter 2.5 micron. And that was made by tokina. Akina then made that lens under their own brand as well. But I think they started by just making it for Vivitar. And that that is a cult classic lens. So if you look it on, look it up on Google, there are some forms where, you know, people just go crazy about it, because it's so incredibly sharp microlens in general, are sharper than other lenses. So they generally are grateful portrayed for anything we need, like really nice, crisp image. But that lens has not only has great sharpness wide open, but it also has super smooth bokeh, not warily, but rather a super creamy, pleasant bokeh that can be exactly what's needed for, you know, I started to think that you should do

Alex Ferrari 1:28:56
And that was the Vivitar. 92 point

Alan Besedin 1:28:58
92.5 made by tokina. Macro, and it's all even has a nickname book malkina. Because you know, it's known for its amazing, bulky, and the way to recognize which visitor lens you want, is by the serial number. So each lens starts with a serial number. First, the digits will tell you what manufacturer made the lens, it's very easy to just kind of type in Vivitar serial numbers on Google, and there is a list. So you generally want to look out for those known brands like tequila made, made some. There's some others like he can have precision, which are the least known, but again, I have some reviews on my website, where I look at various rebuttal lenses and that's how you can kind of pick up the The brands that the better ones and some other brands that maybe you want to avoid. So, yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:30:08
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

And which out of all the lunch you've tested has the most character or film like property? You know, you know which one I want to say. If you want to say it, it's okay to say it. Film like why did you? Cuz I mean, some of these like the the Swiss star, the Ken, the Ken, bollard,

Alan Besedin 1:30:48
Swiss are thinking about the engineer's 1768.

Alex Ferrari 1:30:52
That is gorgeous. The engineers are gorgeous. talea.

Alan Besedin 1:30:54
Yeah, I was actually thinking about that lens, how, how much I enjoyed, you know, the image that was coming out of it, but I then know that it's a very specific kind of lens, you know, you can't use the full frame you can use on SuperFerry five. So, you know, generally, I would say, you know, try the Helios 44. Two and, you know, discover it's magic. It's not the lens for everything. But, you know, you will easily find a project where you might just want to shoot whole thing with that lens, you know, like a music video a little like, commercial or some fly by somebody with RT, maybe not without any real story, but some of where you just wanted to look beautiful. And you know, this is definitely less.

Alex Ferrari 1:31:39
And real quick, I just wanted to ask your opinion on because if people are still listening, that means they're into what we're talking about. So, because this is God log, and I think we've geeked out pretty heavily on on lenses. We could keep going on. And we could talk for another two or three hours. I

Alan Besedin 1:31:56
mean, I have what we'll need to do with some get some more questions, maybe on some feedback that you might

Alex Ferrari 1:32:03
exactly know the the Super takamura Is that the way you pronounce it?

Alan Besedin 1:32:08
A super sack Kumar, I think it's how, yeah, but a but I wouldn't say that you're wrong, because I've never actually heard anyone pronounce it now.

Alex Ferrari 1:32:21
I call it supertech amaura.

Alan Besedin 1:32:23
I know, and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say this wrong, because I'm not saying I'm wrong. The idea is that this is the thing with some of those instances, you kind of don't even know how to pronounce some of the names because no one no one anymore kind of talks about them. So right. Like why Yeah, exactly. The names are open to interpretation,

Alex Ferrari 1:32:44
the, the Super takumar Ah, I got the 50. And,

Alan Besedin 1:32:48
okay, the 51.4. Yes,

Alex Ferrari 1:32:50
it is super sharp. I was blown away how beautiful it looked.

Alan Besedin 1:32:56
It's it's another one of those called classics, that has a massive following. There is a group on Facebook called indulgence video. Which is the group that I started a long time ago.

Alex Ferrari 1:33:14
On Facebook. Yeah, absolutely.

Alan Besedin 1:33:16
Yes. And I decided to create a poll of people commenting and, you know, adding their lenses as to, you know, what is their favorite lens. So, you know, people were able to add their lens, and then other people could check, you know, the box and get more votes, you know, for the length. And, obviously Helios 44 two was by a massive margin, the most popular lens, you know, probably going over 100 volts, but the next second popular lens was actually the, the superior tacuma 50 millimeter 1.4. Because I think everyone who tries that lens, absolutely falls in love with that lens. It's, it's also good.

Alex Ferrari 1:34:04
It's so good. I took it out, just start taking some stills with my daughters. And I was, I was like, What the heck is that? I was, I was just

Alan Besedin 1:34:14
recently, but I also took it out on a day out and the smoothness that you know how pleasant the image is, out of that level. It's gorgeous. It's and I paid like 40 bucks. Yeah, 50 bucks for it. It was i'm not i'm not going to claim that, you know, you're not going to get that smallness out of some modern lenses.

Alex Ferrari 1:34:39
You know, whenever 40 or 50 bucks

Alan Besedin 1:34:41
40 bucks for the lens. Exactly. If that's, you know, you don't need to there's no, there's no massive risk in it. And chances are you'll probably sell it for at least 50 maybe 100 you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:34:54
depending on how Yeah, exactly.

Alan Besedin 1:34:55
And depending on the condition depending how long we have it and you know, sort stances but you will never lose anything on on on that lens and most editions, you know, so it's such a low risk investment. You know, you can you can keep exploring and just seeing what whatever works for you.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:14
And, and that's the thing, again of why I wanted to have you on the show is I really wanted filmmakers to understand that buying glass is not out of Route out of your reach anymore. Because a lot of filmmakers like man, I can't afford to buy my own lenses. Well, this is a great way to kind of experiment, go hunting, go searching for that gem that no one's really heard of, and shoot something with it. And then you can go deep down this rabbit hole as, as Alan and I need to

Alan Besedin 1:35:47
say to a lot of people who got into a situation. You know, this is great. Careful, because no, you know, on my last count, I had 245 lenses.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:59
Wow, wow, it was 100. Before last time you said it was

Alan Besedin 1:36:03
there was a count that I decided I need to reduce my collection. And I went through all my lenses and kind of tried to count them. So you know, more or less that that number. And I've been kind of trying to, you know, to bring it down, even though this is the thing for me, you know, this is this is what I'm about? I'm you know, I'm so passionate. I'm I'm like self proclaimed ambassador for Windows lenses. Yeah, sure. But, you know, it's not, it's not impossible to get to where I am, I know some people who have as many. And, you know, there is no need for so many lenses. I know. Like my one, my only excuse is that I review them, I compare them. Now I write about them. A few of them, you know, to put them together so that but even I know that, you know, I don't need to have that many. So I've been trying to kind of come down to numbers, and to anyone who is getting into the, to the habit of just buying up every lens they don't have yet. Because they're so cheap, I would say you know, try to concentrate on sets. You know, if you like super documents, or if you like my course, just, you know, try to just build on that. And you know, go with the same set. You know, yes, when the sounds are great, but they have all of them have such different look and subject and character, that if you take out a bunch of different witnesses on one job, chances are, you're gonna end up with some mess, because your mid shot will have lots of flair and low contrast. And then your wide shot will have much cold image and maybe high contrast. And try great in that post. So that's why you want to ideally you want to concentrate on sticking with one brand. And building on that and then only having you know those few extra special lenses like the Helios 44. Two, if you decided you don't want to go with a Russian set, just get the Helios 44 to for those special occasions, or maybe the special sequence the dream sequence the Yeah, or maybe have a micro that's a different brand. Because you will only use it for the micro shot.

Alex Ferrari 1:38:19
Or like an optic like the Synoptic. Yeah, that's

Alan Besedin 1:38:21
an optic very special lens. That's I think what I said in my review, it's like the dream sequence lens, because it's so far from perfect, but it's so special that you know, there is there is a sequence somewhere where it will be absolutely perfect.

Alex Ferrari 1:38:36
Yeah, it's called Clockwork Orange. Exactly. You know, yeah, it's it depends on it depends on the filmmaker and what you can use. It's a, it's a paintbrush, you give a paintbrush to Picasso, you give a paintbrush to me, it's gonna be two different pictures. Two different paintings

Alan Besedin 1:38:50
this way, it's just No, it's just don't, because that's what happened. That's what happened to me. Don't just buy every bargain that you see, because there will be a lot in the entertainment world. So God like it to start with buy some, but then kind of try to figure out what you like most. And you know, concentrate in that direction.

Alex Ferrari 1:39:14
I'm using your excuse, I'm going to start reviewing them and talking about them and nothing wrong with it. There's my excuse.

Alan Besedin 1:39:22
That'll be my eventually you will get your money back and probably will even make some money. Like most likely you'll make some money on the lenses that you bought like a year ago. Yeah. But while they are in your possession, it can feel a bit daunting that you have spent so much money you know, and you're not using them every day.

Alex Ferrari 1:39:43
Right right

Alan Besedin 1:39:45
on the shelf. And you'll be like, you know, this is cool, but I also feel so guilty.

Alex Ferrari 1:39:51
Yeah, well, I with my canoptek the 5.7 I don't think I'm gonna ever sell it because I'm a Cooper fanatic and just to know That I have something that even is remotely capable of getting an image that even remotely look like anything that Kubrick ever shot. And not, not not even that I could even serve him T. But as a filmmaker, I could even serve him T. But just to know that that lens is so special, is when I probably will hold on to for a long, long time. And I got and I was lucky enough to get a mint, like as men literally off the factory floor.

Alan Besedin 1:40:27
Oh, that's awesome, because with them, it's tough. You know, the massive front element. People who look into that lens, they will they will see how interesting that lenses their fun element is massive and completely flat. Yes. And it's not really protected by much. Nope, so easy to have that crotch then obviously being a vintage lens.

Alex Ferrari 1:40:48
How old is it? How old? How old is that lens? By the way? Do you know,

Alan Besedin 1:40:51
man, it's like 50s, probably around 50 or 50 years easily is you know, it's like that old vintage lens. She's.

Alex Ferrari 1:41:00
And then the other thing I wanted to talk real quick about guys listening, when you go down this rabbit hole of vintage lenses and it can get stupid as it's gotten with me and Alan, when you start getting into like 100 year old lenses, and building custom rigs to be able to focus 100 year old lenses. And this is the little voice in your head. I'm sure you have the same guy in your head. Like, what if I got that? I wonder what that would look like, if I can make that work? Maybe I could shoot something that no one has ever seen before?

Alan Besedin 1:41:33
Yes. There are people on the Winterfell twitter facebook group that do that kind of thing. Yeah, I have folks in helicoil that, you know, they they put like this lens that called Magic lanterns basically. No, even the name This takes you back. Right? Like some of the first lenses that ever existed. Right? And obviously, the image is very unique. But yeah, it's, uh, thankfully, there were few occasions where I wanted to buy one. You know, I'm just so glad you know, because, yes, yes, you will create something special. But I think you probably are fine, just kind of sticking with the 50 year old lenses. Now you're going deep in then you start getting I mean that they are they have been to China, you know? Yeah, I know. It's, I guess no limit as far as how you know how you can go. But then you like to go first lens there exist and kind of make them work on modern cameras. But is it worth in terms of practicality and really use? You know, 50 5030 year old vintage lenses are still totally usable. They have, they still have nice folks and rings, or maybe you know, some of them need to be serviced. But mostly, they're still very capable wear lenses that go, you know, let's say over 50 years old, and now older. You know, this is something where you just can't do more for fun. Because they will genuinely be impractical. You will have to modify that. Oh, no, it's insane. And

Alex Ferrari 1:43:08
imagine and then then you start getting into the other lenses, like the projection lenses and oh,

Alan Besedin 1:43:13
oh, don't talk to me Our projectors, because we'll be here for another two hours. You know, I don't get into projection lenses. But when we haven't touched the anamorphic lens world, yeah. Oh, once you kind of have to get into projection lenses. Even if you're a guy like me, who doesn't really going to try twice to kind of stick with ready vintage lenses. Yeah, yeah. What?

Alex Ferrari 1:43:44
Yeah, we haven't even talked about anamorphic. And that, yeah, I started. It's the massive subject. I started to dip my toe into it. And then I was like, yeah, I'm out. I can't do this right now.

Alan Besedin 1:43:57
It's sort of like the low end of it. It's sort of like, like using those 100 year old lenses. Yeah, that's how you're wired get to get clubs, and you need to, like fuck, with your taking lens and your projection lens. It gets crazy. And people do it. And I've done it just because they lost after that. You know, on a morphic game, each of those flares, they, they really want to experience them. And they either can't afford to rent because you basically can't afford to buy them like unless you look super high end. But a lot of people can't even afford to rent anamorphic lenses, you know, so the only way to try them is to grab those projection lenses, you know, put them into this crazy rig. And you can get really cool results but so impractical. It's very much.

Alex Ferrari 1:44:50
So let me give you the last three questions and I'll let you go man, because you've given us a tremendous amount of your time. So I truly appreciate it. Alan, what advice would you give a filmmaker just jumping into the Business besides buy vintage lenses.

Alan Besedin 1:45:03
Okay? Okay. I think as you start start out, you have to make little sacrifices, yet some sacrifices, financial sacrifices, you have to shoot a lot for free, just to build connections. Fortunately, in filmmaking world, most of the people you will meet on a set are your friends, they are not your competition, like you will meet a sound guy, you will meet a producer, you will meet this, you know, like so many other people who will, if you have made a good impression and have done a good job, you are not a douchebag, you know, you're a nice person, most likely, when someone comes along, they might either refer you or call you, because you are not their competition they might need you know, so, you know, when I was first starting out, I had to do a lot of, you know, short films, and, you know, all of your projects where there was no money in it, but it gave me a great way to practice and also to meet so many people who, you know, at much later stage, maybe two years down the line, they were like, Oh, you know, that there's, there's this job that someone is, you know, someone needs the camera guy for, you know, do you want to do it, and I never knew, but back on that project, which was completely free. And, you know, I was giving my time I was making money. I didn't know I'm, I'm gonna make any money down the line. But, you know, believe in, in the concept of building relationships, and, you know, creating solid connections, you know, will most likely, you know, take you much further down the line. And I think staying humble as you grow and remembering, you know, the people you worked with, when you start is very important, because you never know where people are going. Oh, yeah. You know, someone who is just starting out,

Alex Ferrari 1:47:11
will give you a job in a few years. Yeah,

Alan Besedin 1:47:13
they might become a great director, some something like that in five years time. And if you are again, because they're still not there, like, you already go to the next level, and, you know, like out, you know, I'm not I'm not I'm not into this stuff anymore. You know, you can be nice about it at the very least, you know, exactly. Because he never, he never know, you know, overstay always they kind of humble and, and nice to people, especially the ones that you started with, because they most likely helped you build up your relationship in in the community and build up your show reel. More importantly,

Alex Ferrari 1:47:48
now, what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film business or in life?

Alan Besedin 1:47:56
That is probably a matter for different podcasts? Anyway, but in business, I wouldn't, I wouldn't. Like it kind of takes me back to do want to take about the business part or the creative part.

Alex Ferrari 1:48:17
I think business because we always talk a lot about the creative, but I really would love to talk about business. Because if you have a lesson that you've learned in business, and the business side of the film business, that would be probably helpful.

Alan Besedin 1:48:29
Okay, I should have read your questions beforehand. Question. Think it's it, you know, not to take, you know, anything for granted. Like, it's always gonna be there. And goes, goes with life as well. It's just, you know, you always have to be on your toes, networking and looking out for opportunity to stay in touch with people. Because if you become too comfortable, the tongue might come when work dries up, and you suddenly don't have anywhere to turn to and you have to start from the start. I've had such experience with with my work where I became very comfortable working for one company was providing no more than 50% of my income and then oh, yeah, suddenly, you know, they're gone. And that that kind of went into different direction. And, and suddenly I find myself thinking, you know, you know, what do I do next, you know, so always, you know, spread out, spread out your work and your connections so that you're not relying on one thing. Because, in business, any business is really important to you. have, you know your options? Open in case that one source of income dries up. And if you don't have anything else, then you know you're screwed. diverse. Just have to work and go and work in a restaurant or coffee shop. And you're no longer doing what you love and film business. Just because you know, you didn't.

Alex Ferrari 1:50:24
Didn't diversify, diversify. Yeah, multiple revenue streams, multiple revenue streams from multiple different sources. So if something drops,

Alan Besedin 1:50:33
I think that I think that's what I'm still learning I'm still trying to do because most of us in filmmaking world are self employed, you know, like freelance. So we, there is never a consistency. So you always have to keep hustlin like, You're both your website is cold.

Alex Ferrari 1:51:00
Always hustle baby always know. Yeah, that's the thing. Now, what are three and three of your favorite films of all time?

Alan Besedin 1:51:10
Oh, man, actually, strangely enough. Whenever I think of clockworks orange, I'm always like, you know, this is something else. And I'm not. And and, and I'm not a person that is into violent film. So you'd like that?

Alex Ferrari 1:51:27
genuinely? oddly enough. But oddly enough, if we want to talk about Clockwork Orange, it's oddly not that violent. Yeah, compared to television today.

Alan Besedin 1:51:39
All the decisions today, don't get me started. I know. You know, and whatever. You know, I'm not judging anyone, but I'm not particularly into violence. I, you know, doesn't bring out anything in me was default, I don't think it generally brings me brings out anything in people other than taking maybe some frustration out of certain individuals where, you know, they might feel frustrated and television kinda, you know, maybe lets them get it out somehow in the system. I don't know. Yeah, I don't, I don't change in law. firms that concentrate on violence like that, but that's just a masterpiece, you know, just so much wanted, I love films that have the, you know, have a bit more to the story. You know, things that you sometimes need to read every time you watch film, you find something new little details, you know. And I think Clockwork Orange is one of those films that every time I'll watch it. Because I don't want I don't see that often. But every time I would see it, it will be like almost like watching for the first time. Yep,

Alex Ferrari 1:52:51
exactly. That's one of those movies is just like, in the what he does in the first 20 minutes alone is more than filmmakers doing their career.

Alan Besedin 1:53:01
Yeah, it's insane. Yeah, I know. And actually, one other film that I really love is oblivion. And I know that I enjoyed the film, people don't like it at all, some people, you know, love it. For me. I do love the story of it. But for me, I really loved the cinematography of that film.

Alex Ferrari 1:53:29
He's the director, and that dp did a really great job with the cinematography and oblivion was beautiful.

Alan Besedin 1:53:35
Yeah, I just, you know, it kind of really, you know, made me made me research, you know, you know, that feeling to be, you know, how did they show it? You know, what lenses do they use and stuff like that? I think they mostly use more than classmate cardi Miranda relief His name is he he's one of those cinematographers who actually likes to use the interest lens once in a while, which was nice to, to hear, you know, especially on like, you know, shooting female skin tones. Yes. Explain how it flattens the, you know, the look of you know, how Female Actor actors almost, if they know about it stuff, they sometimes, you know, request certain lenses like that is used for that because of how nice it is. So, yeah, it whenever filmic does that to me where I want to research more, you know, go deeper into it, and again, inspires me that's, so it's a good sign,

Alex Ferrari 1:54:43
and where can people find you?

Alan Besedin 1:54:46
Okay, so, the main hub is the vintage lenses for video.com. That's the website. But I'm also on pretty much every social network. There is Maybe apart from Snapchat, I tried it and didn't work for my format. But but on Instagram, it's another great place to check winter census video out because I tried to post something every single day, where with the website? I usually do like one two reviews per month.

Alex Ferrari 1:55:23
Yes, I'm very upset about that, by the way.

Alan Besedin 1:55:26
That's, you know, I can only blame business for that. Yes, I

Alex Ferrari 1:55:30
know, I don't feel it, brother. Trust me, I don't

Alan Besedin 1:55:32
make money online. And I have to spend my time trying to make a living, which is, again, another place where can be found this Patreon. If you guys want me to produce more content, you want to see more vintage lens reviews and stuff like that, then check out an innocence for your Patreon page, because this is one of the only ways how I can try and spend more time to bring out exciting content. And it's completely it's completely the thing that you just kind of do it if you want, you know, I I never tried to sell anything to people, if they want to help. They help if they want to just enjoy it for free. That's fine. I will still try to keep doing it as much as I can.

Alex Ferrari 1:56:16
I element Thank you so much. I'll put all those links in the show description. But man, I really this, this interview has gone out of control. We went we went it's we're getting close to two hours already. which inspired by oddly enough, not the longest interview I've ever done. But we definitely went deep down the rabbit hole of vintage glass. And I really appreciate you taking the time out man

Alan Besedin 1:56:40
To be on your show. It's the first experience doing something like that. And definitely very enjoyable, because I will never pass on an opportunity to geek out.

Alex Ferrari 1:56:50
Appreciate it, brother. Thanks, Alan.

Alan Besedin 1:56:52
Thank you.

Alex Ferrari 1:56:53
Well, if you want to know about vintage lenses, you definitely know more now than you did when you first started listening to this podcast. It Again, it's kind of changed my perspective on how I I shoot things, how I do things. I've really dug deep into lenses. And because they're essentially your paintbrush, they are your paintbrush. When you're making a film, as a cinematographer, as a director, as a hybrid of the two, they can impart a signature look on a film or on your style as a cinematographer or as a director. And they don't have to cost 10s of 1000s of dollars to do so. Especially when you're starting out also, especially when you are trying to create you're trying to set yourself apart from the pack. If everyone else is shooting with the same old glass that everybody else is shooting, and you pick up something that's 50 years old, put it on the certain camera color grade in a certain way, and you've got a very unique look. Well, hell, man that's gonna make you stand apart from everybody else. At the end of the day, though, it's always about story. It's always about how these paint brushes, tell your story. I'm not telling you that if you go out and buy these lenses, you're gonna have a better movie, you're gonna have a better looking movie, maybe a more unique looking movie. But at the end of the day, it's always about story. And also don't forget that just because you someone could give me a $2,000 paintbrush, that is the most amazing paintbrush ever created in existence and gave me a canvas and some paint. And I guarantee you it's I'm not going to be able to paint anything even remotely close to what Van Gogh or Dolly or any of the Masters did. Okay, so it's not about the tools. But if you're good at what you do, those tools can bring a unique perspective to your work as an artist and as a filmmaker. And again, guys, please don't forget to head over to iTunes and preorder This is mag comm at this is mag comm forward slash iTunes, it's really going to help out the cause a lot. And I really am excited to let sit to get it out there for you guys. And and for you guys to see it and let me know what you think. And I can't wait to start talking about the next projects I've got going on and what's in store for indie film hustle and how I'm going to be changing a bunch of stuff and adding a bunch of cool stuff to it in the future as well as what I'm going to be doing with the indie film syndicate and how we're going to be making that better as well as a membership community that we have. So stay tuned guys, there's a lot of stuff coming. And guys, if you haven't checked out my YouTube page, definitely hit that head over there. Go to indie film hustle.com forward slash YouTube and you'll be able to subscribe and check out all the videos I'm going to be putting out on YouTube. These these vintage lens test I'm going to be doing as well as some other cool things that I have in store for you guys. So definitely go on YouTube, subscribe, and so you can stay up to date with all things indie film, hustle. And as always keep that hustle going keep that dream alive and I'll talk to you soon.

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