Christine Chen

IFH 629: Watch This to Survive on a Film Set with Christine Chen


Christine Chen is an Academy qualified film producer, director and co-author of Get Reelisms. She fell in love with capturing images and telling stories through film the first time she got her hands on an early addition VHS camcorder in 1993. Christine’s love of film turned into a life-long passion for writing and directing.

Christine has a B.A. from Rice University as well as a MBA from the University of Texas McCombs. Christine‘s films have been showcased at festivals such as Hollyshorts, New Orleans Film Festival, and Fantasia Film Festival. Christine’s recent feature, Erzulie had a limited theatrical run in May 2022 and is now available on VOD starting June 14, 2022 through Kamikaze Dogfight Films and Gravitas Ventures.

Enjoy my conversation with Christine Chen.

Christine Chen 0:00
There's just a specific way that you answer respond. And it's very military honestly, I've heard it is. It's, it's, I believe, that's where it really came from. But a lot of it is the way I can describe it is like if you were blind, like how would you know somebody heard your message, understood your message and is working on your message, right? Because, and you're delivering this to, you know, however big your crew is,

Alex Ferrari 0:34
This episode is brought to you by the Best Selling Book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur how to turn your independent film into a money making business. Learn more at filmbizbook.com I'd like to welcome to the show Christine Chen. How you doing Christine?

Christine Chen 0:48
I'm good. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Alex Ferrari 0:52
Thank you so much for coming on the show. Uh, you know, we've I've done 600 Plus episodes right now at this point this as of this recording, and I've never done a kind of onset Survival Guide for not only pas but specifically for pas and interns and unset interns, but also for crew members and new crew members in different departments that just don't understand the, the carny language, there is a film set. So you guys decided to write a book called Get. Which, by the way, it is as simple beautifully. You know, it's not like it's as you can if you guys can see, it's all pretty pictures and everything. So it's real. Like it's to the point and it's, it's a book that I wish I would have had when I started out. I'm sure you feel

Christine Chen 1:42
That's why we created it. Yeah, I'm glad you pointed that out. That's exactly why we created it. I so I got started in the industry in like 2000. Dude, 2000. And Jesus 1514 around then? Sure. And yeah, I remember going on my first set, and somebody asked me for a stinger. And I had no clue what that was no clue. And nobody tells you this, you just get thrown into the wolves. And the film says super high pace. And you're already stressed out that you want to make a good impression because he finally got onto a film set. And it's almost like get a car. I'm like, I don't know what the eff that is. And so the the only option at that point is to hopefully snag the crew member that has the time and patience to explain it to you. But that you that you have the fear of sounding, just showing that you don't know what you're doing. I mean, not that, you know, you going around, say is not enough to show that you don't know what you're doing. But like to just add insult to that to be that obvious that you don't even know how people talk on set is even worse. So yeah,

Alex Ferrari 2:57
Yeah. We will know, if you don't if you're new on set within three to four minutes of just seeing the winning actually, if they're like, Wow, this is cool. They're brand new, they're brand spanking new. They feel sparkles in their eyes, brand spanking new. And then you've got the grizzled grip that just walks by has been doing it for 25 years. And then like, there you go, that's that. He doesn't care about any movie stars. Anything. He's like, I'm here for a job. You want to push the dollar push the dolly. That's as simple as that. But no, when I first got started out, I was thrown into the woods and I was going to technical film school that actually taught you some of these things. So I went to full sail in Orlando. Where is it very technical film school, at least it was when I was there. And I knew what a stinger was. But there's still this corny language of you know, an apple box and, and you know, a honey wagon and crafty and all of these things that you just don't know you and I take it for granted because we've been on set up a ton of times over the years. But when you're first on set, you're you're nervous as hell. And the thing is anyone listening who gets on set for the first time, they just have to understand that most people, most people on the crew, depending on who you get on and what type of day you get. Understand that you know nothing. And if you're a PA, it's expected you know nothing unless you're like, the 45 year old PA. That's another conversation. Yes. So, because I've met those guys, I'm like, Yeah, me too. Have you ever thought of going into a department? No. Solid. I'm like, Alright, brother, you do you? So how did you so let me ask you the first question, why did you want to get into this insanity? This corny world that is the film business.

Christine Chen 4:42
You know, I when I wake up at like 4am to get on set. I asked myself that every time

Alex Ferrari 4:49
Is this? Why am I doing this?

Christine Chen 4:51
Why? Why did we do this to ourselves? Or I'm on the you know, the fifth overnight. I'm like, why am I doing this again? Got it. And then I, you know, you get through it. And then the next day you wake up and let's say you're, you're off, you're like, Wait, why am I not on set? You know? And so I, it's weird, it's very strange thing and I tell new filmmakers this all the time, you'll know if you belong or you don't, you know, you'll go on your complaint you'll get off me maybe not one day, maybe you give me like two or three days and you if you feel the itch, then you just know, I was in documentary filmmaking actually, before I went on set, I had been a one man band for a while. In undergrad, you have to be a well rounded person. So they say, you know, you have to do a credit and an art class. And so I fell into filmmaking. At that point, I chose the intro to documentary filmmaking course, Rice University, and loved it. I loved the editing part of the telling the story part, everything. And that was I mean to the that was all I knew. And I thought, okay, cool. That was fun hobby. You know, it's, and I'll never deal with filmmaking again. And I, but I should have known that things were going to change after that. Because the proportion of time that I spent on that class, the intro to class was probably like, 70% of my time. And then like the rest of my 10 classes was like the last 10% It'd be add, like partying and all the other stuff to it. And so, but my culture, I'm a first generation Taiwanese American, you don't pursue stuff like filmmaking or art of any sort. You're a doctor and engineer something practical, you know, that will give you a steady nine to five job. And it took me doing one of those jobs, I was a IT consultant after I graduated, that I realized I didn't want to do that. And I was searching for myself as to what I was going to do. And for some reason, landed on being a lawyer. And so you have to take the LSAT, it's to be able to qualify. And to do that there's prep courses and stuff. And I'm terrible at taking tests. So I took one of those courses. And you know, the universe has a way of laughing at you, my LSAT, teacher was a filmmaker. And he was it was in Houston at that time. And he I guess, had a group that was doing the 48 Hour Film Festival thing. He was like, Hey, you want to be a PA? No clue what that was? Because there's aren't pas and intro to documentary film at all. You are a one person you do everything yourself. So Mike Yeah, sure. No clue show up. And they get now I know what I was actually doing. I was the second AC, but it was PA, but they gave me a slate and I was the happiest person ever. I was like, Oh my God, I'm such an important job of using a slate writing around this thing that people wanted to take pictures with, you know, and, and I just, it clicked it just I don't know what happened. They say there's divine intervention. Some people go on to have a light bulb moment. And I definitely would say I had a light bulb moment. I just felt like I belonged and that this crazy world was something that I really just loved. And it really just took that one set. I just, I just remember being fascinated with everyone's job, which is not common for me usually, like, you know, my dad's engineering I asked him one sentence, they told me like five sentences and I like to now after two words, you know, but on on this film set, every single job was fascinating to me. You know, I just I'd never seen a follow focus before I just, you know, stared at that for a very long time. And then, you know, grab water for like, grip, and it was like watching them build stuff and never seen that before and looking at the makeup, you know, and just everything was cool. Now I lucked out because the set that I got on, they actually knew what they were doing. I could have been on a shit show, but it was it was not and I forgot. I'm on a lot of customers a camera too late.

Alex Ferrari 9:25
Go ahead. Okay. I mean, we're talking. We're talking about sets here. No one ever curses on a set. So as much cursing as you do on set or hurt here on set, that's as much as you could do here. Okay, that's a very bad okay. Yeah, so So but let me I mean, you know what, when I was on the set for the first time, too, it is very intoxicating. It's an intoxicating environment if you're in a good set, I mean, I've been on both I've been on bad sets. Oh, yeah. Egos going out of crazy and then this thing's just like you said a should show like, they just don't know what they're doing. They can't make their day. You know, it just, they're just a bunch of monkeys running around, you know, with a camera trying to do something. So I've been on those sets. And then, and then when you walk on a professional set working on a studio project or network project, and you just see these grizzled veterans who worked like a well oiled machine, and what's fascinating is that a lot of times you'll go on the first day, and everyone's on there for the first day. And yeah, there might be a few people who know each other. But generally speaking, everyone's new on that on that set to each other. And they still run like a well oiled machine because they all understand their part in the machine. And it only only problems I ever see on set is when people overstep their, their lane, they want to do this or the DP wants to be the director, the director wants to be the lighting guy

Christine Chen 10:53

Alex Ferrari 10:53
Yeah, exactly. Or the or did like it's all about the dress. No, it's not. It's all about the it's all about the curtains in the back. No, it's not, dude. We need five hours for the for the curtains, no, no. hours for the curtains, you got five minutes. So let's move along. So you've been on set so many times, and obviously continues to work on sets. What is the biggest, like newbie mistake, you see that that pas make on day one or or onset interns to this? This kind of goes for both?

Christine Chen 11:27
Sure, I think for me is people go in feeling entitled. And when I say entitled, it means like, I think people have a from the from the out the outside world. You see the red carpets, you see the you know, Entertainment Tonight, and you see the people dressed up. And I think people going in and thinking like, oh, because I'm a director, you know, or an aspiring director, I'm going to be able to jump, you know, jump positions and just start letting my opinion matters, you know, and sure, to a certain extent, but like, I think people forgetting that all the people that are on set started off and work their way up to where they are, and earned the right to be there. And I and I think newbie mistake is thinking that things are below them. Like, oh, I don't need to get water for people or take the trash. It's like, that's labor that's below me. You know, and, and I think no matter how veteran you are on set, there's you will realize, I feel like it's if you are a good crew member, you will always there will never be a job that is below you. At any point in your career, you know, because you understand the value that each position each job entails and how that affects the overall success of the film. And that's the biggest thing I see for new starry eyed pas is that they come in thinking, Oh, I went to college, and I shouldn't need to go run errands and pick up dog poop and all this other, which that happens. And that's the problem. And the thing is that we veterans can smell that and see that instantly. You know? Yeah, I mean, like we you said within today, it's so funny now being on the other side. When you're brand new, you're like, Oh, nobody can tell I'm brand new, I could just like pretend that no, we can tell within like, like you said two to three minutes. Now, we can also tell within two to three minutes if you're good or not. And it's attitude. It doesn't have to do with skill. Because getting water is not a skill. I mean, it's not like a thing that you have to learn. Everybody can do it, but there's like an attitude that comes with it for people who are good and who are not. And you can pick it out like within, you know, you probably say well, within five minutes. I'm like, Alright, I can count on these four pas out of these 20 You know, like it's like, yeah,

Alex Ferrari 14:15
Right, because there's gonna be the four pas who are just hustling left at anytime you turn around, they're there. Waiting, waiting.

Christine Chen 14:24
What can I do? Do you mean anything?

Alex Ferrari 14:27
Yeah. And then the other ones are sitting around, you know, back I found? Yeah, Gabby found her sitting around crafty. Talking about how the director is doing the job wrong. And he they can do better.

Christine Chen 14:37
Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 14:39
I've seen it so often. And it's so that's why I love you know, some of these some of these older grizzy grizzled veterans, the DPS the, you know, the, the key grips, yeah, those departments. You know, I just throw them to the wolves you know if I see that on set I'll be like, Hey, that guy, go talk to that guy, do good. Go do your thing, go do your thing, and then just start and they just start because it's God, it's, it's such a weird thing on set culture because it is, it is a carny world. And I actually made a movie about carne. So I have a really good understanding of the carny world and Carnegie's and what they do and how they treat each other. And it's the secret language that you talk, you know, that we could talk to each other. And they'll put you through the grinder until you prove yourself. Yeah, you belong there. Respect. Yeah. And they're going to beat you up. And in a, in a almost, almost rite of passage kind of way, not in a practical way. Not in a hopefully not in a derogatory way, though, I find I've had that happen to me on set as well, things sets have changed a little bit, hopefully, sure, since my day, but it's because it's so tough. Being on set. I mean, I mean, when I worked on set, as a PA, I figured out really quickly, probably after a year of interning and being on stages, and, you know, I went I was working at Universal Studios, I was working at Disney behind the scenes and productions and things like that. And like you said, when I wake up at three o'clock in the morning, I'm going out there somewhere sitting in the mud, and while it's raining, while I'm trying to wave people into where they're parking, and I'm like, this sucks. Yeah. I don't I you know what, I don't think this is what I want to do. I want to be on set, but this is not what I wanted. So I learned I just jumped from that to post real quick and, oh, no air conditioning, and carpal tunnel. I'll deal with that. And I jumped for that. And then when I started to become a director, and then started, you know, as as a post guy started to go on set, and then started to be directing and doing commercials and things like that. It seemed like okay, this is where I want to be. But things that I learned along the way was that, at a certain point in my career, I felt the ego felt that it was above doing some menial stuff. And the crew picks it up. As the director of the coop, the crew picks it up. So now anytime I'm ever on set, and for the last 10, probably 10 plus years, I'm picking up garbage at the end of the day. I don't care you know, I'll I'll grab stuff. I'll pick stuff up. And then other like some of the older What are you doing, sir? Sir? What do you like it? Okay, guys, let's we all gotta move it along. So that's kind of like, Why are you picking that up? You're the director. I'm like, No, it's okay. If it's in the middle of the day. No, that's I have to do a job short. At the end of the day, we've wrapped. Let me help out. Yeah, let me help out. And I never eat first. I always try to let I always try to let the crew go before me. So they see that I'm like, No, you guys are busting your balls. You know, go I want to help. But these are the little things and no one tells you as a as a filmmaker, or as a crew person. There's these etiquettes these kind of hidden languages. It's almost prison yard like

Christine Chen 18:03
Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, I often say oh, we're like just glorified louvers. And we one thing from one side to the other side, and we do it again. Yeah, no, it's it's there's nothing super sure. After the product is all done and stuff like that. You don't care about the journey. Yeah, sure. It can be it can be it glamorous, but like it really isn't. You know, and

Alex Ferrari 18:25
It is for some men it is for actors. I mean, the act and sometimes it's not even that glamorous for the actors, because it looks glamorous from the outside. But when they're there on a on a on the 14th hour freezing on a green screen hung by cables. Yeah. And they're just like, I gotta be super now. Like, what am I doing here? Like it's, it's, it's, it's worse. There's harder. There's harder work in the world.

Christine Chen 18:48
Yes, there is. We're blessed. We're very blessed.

Alex Ferrari 18:51
There's no question but it is still not what everyone expects it to be. So it's really fascinating that way. Now the one thing I always love and I love what you wrote about in your book was walkie talkie etiquette. Now I I think when I was coming up there, yeah, of course there was walkie talkies. And I knew a little bit of it because I used to work on some some shows for Nickelodeon. So it was never the key pa i was i was always you know, office PA or or on set pa but it wasn't the key pa because again, not where I wanted to go down that road. But can you talk a little bit about that is a completely secret language and even to this day, I understand some of it but as a director, it's not something I understand completely. So can you express and explain to people what walkie talkie etiquette is?

Christine Chen 19:42
Sure. So that's a big thing. When you first go on it, you're not going to see it for a tiny, tiny Ciske small sets won't be able to afford walkie talkie. So we do first scan on set that has walkie talkies, that can be very jarring. I like what is this thing? At first it's cool and And then at the end of the day, you're like, Please throw this in the trash. Because you, you have this purse, you have several people constantly talking in your head. And for people who don't know, the walkie talkies are a way for things to be moving behind the scenes while set things are being shot. And you do it very quietly, because everybody has an earpiece in the ear and they can't hear, you know, it's not over walkie hopefully, and you can't hear things are happening because it's all in your head on over the walkie and so there's just a specific way that you answer respond. And it's very military, honestly, I've heard it is. It's it's I believe that's where it really came from. But a lot of it is the way I can describe it is like if you were blind, like how would you know somebody heard your message, understood your message and is working on your message, right? Because and you're delivering this to, you know, however big your crew is, because everybody is on the walkie, you know, in certain departments on their own channels, and, and whatever most for the most part, people were on channel one for production. And so you just have to get really good at being specific, and to keep the traffic on the walkie talkie as minimal as possible as well. So being specific, concise, and so you just, it's a way of efficient communication. And these shorthand ways of talking, this etiquette allows for this efficiency of talking on the radio. So it's hard, it's a lot harder said than done. Because there will be something that happens, you know, I don't know, the honey wagon is stuck, you know, and in the middle of the set or something and you got a new pa who's like freaking out about it because it's his or her responsibility to get this honey wagon out of the middle of the scene and everybody's yelling at them because it's, you know, taking up precious time from shooting, and they're describing this over the walkie and no but and somebody who is nowhere near that said is like what the eff is going on, you know, and you're just like, take it to, to take it to to, you know, put go go on a different channel. But like, you just don't, until you've gone through the wringer and you've experienced that or you've, you've been on the receiving end. To have perspective, that's when you realize why this etiquette is so important. But it's things like when you have when you're asking for a department for something, you know, wardro Can you insert what you need, Christine for you know, and then the other receiving in having to say, like copy, so they know that I heard the message, you know, type thing. It's just it's like playing telephone, because it can't see anybody. That's the problem. You know, sometimes you were all in different parts of the set. I think that's the that's just to give context, we are all in different parts of the set, that this could be within driving distance far away. This could be deep in the boonies and in because let's say you're doing a Wi Fi and you can't see people on set in the scene. So they're all hiding, like far far away. Or somebody who is in a truck who has no clue is in a fishbowl has no clue what's going on and said you have to communicate to all of these people in an efficient way. Something important or not, you know, so. So there's just a lot of shorthand for that. And it is extremely jarring when you have never had a walkie talkie and you get on set and you just want to like I don't know, just talk on it like a regular person, you know, like a telephone but it's not Yeah. So So yeah, I have specific, you know, lingo that's on there and as long as you can, you know, kind of get used to that you should be able to survive being a walkabout Oh, this is like practice you know?

Alex Ferrari 24:29
Yeah, exactly. And it's a new language and it's a protocols and how you do things and you're learn pretty quick that's the thing oh yeah real quick you the real the real quick if unless you just want to get yelled at constantly you know so you know for like Where's where's the where's actor? Where's actor

Christine Chen 24:46
Yeah, talent trial. Yeah, where is Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 24:48
Walking back to on our way a minute away. minute away.

Christine Chen 24:55
Eta eta of talent. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Alex Ferrari 24:58
Things like that. So it's It's talent will come out of his dressing room to take everybody switches the two. Everyone's like what's going on? Like it's Yeah, yeah. Problem. So now one thing I have been asked this myself and I don't have an answer for maybe you'd have an answer for. There is so many secret names code names for basic things. Lauren said, Stinger is an extension cord baby. A baby. Yeah, baby, Apple, cheese plate, brick. All of these things. Why not just say, I need I need an extension cord. And I know that's too. It's a little longer stingers faster. Yes. That's why these things were and then

Christine Chen 25:52
I don't think so I think it just I think it's just a fast way to decipher something without having to because the thing is, there's like different sizes of certain pieces of equipment. There are different brands of certain pieces of equipment and stuff like that. And sometimes if you just give it like a pet name, that pet name is so different from everything else. It's just easy to identify it. You know, it's it's so like, I heard and it changes all the time by region by location, and that's the same thing. But yeah, like I heard taco cart, you know, that was another thing. Okay, grab the taco cart. But I think that's a Texas thing. You know,

Alex Ferrari 26:37
There is there yeah, there is a look, there's all sorts of new ones I heard the other day. God, I hope they don't bring in spinning wheels of death. For lunch. Have you heard of a spinning wheel up?

Christine Chen 26:49
I haven't heard of spinning spinning wheels.

Alex Ferrari 26:50
It's gonna go with that pizza. Pizza. So spinning. Spinning wheels a day all the peas like God, I hope they don't bring in spinning wheels of death have launched Jesus Christ. I'm like, What's the spinning wheel of death? And they're like, Oh, it's this and and, and there's one. It's a mean one. Because he's now passed. Oh, because this actor passed and they and I just remember I was on set. No, no, it wasn't I wasn't the Gary Coleman. It was a Mickey Rooney. Oh, have you know what? I'm you know what a Mickey Rooney is? Yes. Give me just a little creep. No, it's mean. But these are the things you're just like, Wow, man. Like how, like I hear like, give me a Mickey Rooney there. And then the grip the key grips pushing the dolly. And the DP is like, give me a Mickey Rooney. I'm like, I'm sorry. What's a Mickey Rooney is like a little creepy. I'm like, wow, okay. So it's just this carny prison led to military that is brutal.

Christine Chen 27:52
Extremely brutal are a man maker. I heard that one. Oh, I haven't heard him. Me. Oh, we have to have apple box and someone to stand on it. Oh, yeah. So wrong.

Alex Ferrari 28:06
I've heard that as a Tom Cruise as well. Give me a Tom Cruise. Just give them a little extra height.

Christine Chen 28:12
Height. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 28:15
It's brutal. It's brutal. It's look, it's not for the faint of heart being on set. That's that's

Christine Chen 28:22
It's very not peasy.

Alex Ferrari 28:24
No, it isn't. And that was one thing when I was when I was on set my wife who's out of the business completely. She doesn't know anything about our business. Yeah, she would walk on set while I was directing. She's like, how, how is this? Allowed? How's everyone not being sued left and right. For that what's happening being said, and this is all before me too. Before all that stuff. And I was just I just said like, it's just kind of the culture, it was the culture and it is, look, to be honest, it is sometimes a toxic culture. There's no question on set is a toxic culture. And for for females even worse. question like, I mean, I remember I was on I was on a production, I was directing. And I saw a female grip for the first time ever. And she was wonderful. By the way, she busted her ass and she was great. And I'm like, what does she have to put up with? Oh, from the grip department to hang with the grid? Yeah, nine in 2001. Can you? You I'm saying? Yeah. And that'd be so it's but it's, it's it is, you know, there's a lot of male testosterone running on set generally. So, yes, it has changed a bit and I think it has changed for the better. Yes. But, you know, I've talked to female DPS I hadn't seen I honestly didn't see a female DP until maybe like, eight, nine years ago. Like on Saturday. Yeah, it was just not a thing that you saw very often. But now it's becoming more prevalent and females are becoming you know, and people of color and all this stuff are all All coming on set, which is great. But it can be a toxic environment and you as a as a young PA or young intern coming in have to be aware of that. But understand that there is there's a little you got to get a little bit of a thick skin.

Christine Chen 30:15
Yeah, definitely. Would you agree? Yes, I completely agree. I, especially when you move up the ranks to when you typically get to bigger budgets and stuff, they are run by more older film veterans, and they have, they're just kind of stuck in the past. And so you're dealing with it more and more so than, like, if you're on a student project, everybody's like, woke and stuff, you know, but yeah, so So you're dealing with that a lot. And, and it's, it can be extremely frustrating. But you also have to realize that, in order for change to happen, you have to educate, so it's a lot of taking, it is harder to take the time to teach, it's easier to keep the same, doing the same thing or yell at somebody or, or whatever, but it's harder to stop someone and say, You shouldn't say that, or like I don't like, you know, that's not right to do. So it's it's, it's a slow changing process, but it is it is changing. And it's unfortunately, a lot of this is top down, you know, and and until there's enough time of cycling, to get new people up to the top to trickle down with new ways of thinking and stuff like that. We're going to run into that kind of thinking, you know, it's just it's, it's, it's not, I wouldn't say it's right, it's just a it's a product of the environment and the time period, you know, but yeah, for sure,

Alex Ferrari 31:47
Without question. And there's also another thing that is a culture that happens on set, especially if it's depends on who's running the set as far as either first ad director, DPS as well. But there's, you know, it can be stressful. It's extremely stressful. The SEC can be a little stressful. And every once in a while, you'll get a veteran who's just really comfortable with themselves, who will play practical jokes on set to kind of release the tension and my favorite is my DT a friend, a good friend of mine, DP, old veteran guy, he would always have a broken lens in his kit. And first AC or second AC would come up and he would just throw it at him. It's like a Zeiss, you know, like, Oh my god. Throw it at him. And I can hear put this on the camera and throw it right at him in front of everybody. And oh my god, and you just see this guy's face. He's just white just drained like blood. And, and he falls in the cracks. And then he would play it up. He's like, how could you drop you've cracked my lens. That's a $50,000 lens. What if, and everyone's just trying to hold it in. And before the kid has an absolute heart attack, they let them they let it go. So it's almost like a coming of age kind of almost mafia Aska like I come over here. It's initiation like You're good now kid come on. And he used to also have an old this is when we used to shoot film, of film reel with exposed film.

Christine Chen 33:20
Ohh no

Alex Ferrari 33:21
Throw the reel at the kid and the film would come all over the place and they were just like, oh my god, that was today's dailies. Like oh, that people would just think these little Hartman's sometimes you'll see that in the front of the whole set, but within departments there's like little not say hazing, but just fun, you know things to kind

Christine Chen 33:43
Yeah, I thought you were gonna say t stop. That's a pause. But more they send the second AC to go find T stops yeah, I've had I've seen that happen in the second AC like looking at the entire day for tea stops. I can't find it. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 33:58
I've been looking for tea stops I've called everywhere no one has that I have what I had once I was when I was in school, some old grisly post online editor like, you know, TV guy, and some some producer she came on in like a just a battle ram. And was Boston's everyone's just being a complete ass. And I was there as an intern watching this and, and the editor goes, Ah, God, and she was looking at footage from the day before, like, Oh, God, what happened? She's like, what happened? What happened? She's like, you know, if they would have done double double drop frame, it would have been better. So it would have just really steadied up the image quality. So you need double double drop frame timecode and she's like, okay, so she went on the next day to set and just rip every wire we shooting double double. I want my image to be he was like, everyone was just like the Did you talk to Henry, because everyone knew everyone knew he did it? Because they're all I think she actually got in trouble. But he didn't care. He had job security. But these are the kinds of things that, you know, they're so high strung pas and intern sometimes that you got to kind of loosen them up a little bit, because and also, by the way, when you're that high strung, that's when accidents happen. And that's when mistakes happen. And you got to lose them. loosen them up. Just a bit. Just a little bit. Now, you've been on set for a while now. Yeah, it was the worst day on set for you. And how did you overcome it?

Christine Chen 35:40
Um, I would say, one of the worst days was this happened not too long ago, about two years ago, I think tears. When was snow vid in Austin, Texas. The snow Apocalypse that happened the I've only been hearing so

Alex Ferrari 35:57
I've only okay.

Christine Chen 35:58
I think this was two years ago. And Austin had a freak snowstorm. And this was I mean, I think this was

Alex Ferrari 36:08
Oh, it'd be, it'd be January, February, if

Christine Chen 36:11
Yeah that was what it was. It was January. Yeah, February. And the producers were refusing to shut down the set. Because Because where we were currently, there was no snow storm yet. There was talk of it. And everywhere else in Texas, there were pile ups and I scenario,

Alex Ferrari 36:33
One where they froze, everything froze out. Yeah, the power grid went down.

Christine Chen 36:38
Yeah, power grid went down and stuff like that was a couple years ago. Yeah, yeah. And then it were in the middle of it in a hit. And I just remembered, it was both the worst, but also, there's elements of it, that like, were great, too. At that point, the, I think the crew knew that. Like, it was beyond my control, even though I tried to call it several times, but it you know, ultimately, is the producers called SIL. And every crew member gave me an article of clothing, because we were outside and it was really, really cold. And there was snow and it was blizzarding and everything. And like, we didn't have enough people were moving trucks and it was icy and everything. And luckily, he got called later by the producers, but it was a constant, like just communicating with the crew and being like, Hey, I'm sorry, I want to call it this is the situation like they hopefully will call it you know, soon type thing and just I think it sucked because I just felt powerless in that situation to ensure the safety you know, of my crew and the way I dealt with it was just constantly talking to the crew. Giving them like a play by play of what's going on from top down. I kind of did a little hint hint, like if you want to leave I'm not going to stop you type thing. You know, but I think your your safety is poor I think it's important and you know, please do what you think is the most important type thing. But I am under this is what's happening from top down type thing and and to be put in that situation really sought because it's people safety and when you have no power and you have no power to to ensure I can say I walk you know, but like that also is not good for the crew either, you know, and then they don't have the one person that's vouching for them you know there so it was a lot of like, Hey, this is what's going on. This is the play by play if you were to walk I'm not going to stop you from it and I support it type thing and and hopefully they're gonna call they eventually did call it but it but I think despite that really shitty moment feeling you know, having the crew each food I tell you each department gave me an article clothing so that I wouldn't like freeze to death. But like somebody gave me a hat someone gave me you know, a jacket, a jacket that was happened to be in their car. So one day I looked like this big ass like marshmallow with like 50 layers of clothing because we were outside in the snow was blowing at us. And we were not prepared. We were not none of us. Yeah, not prepared. And then then to have later on the director who doesn't understand you know that we were doing our best to make it happen. Like, essentially blame you for a snowstorm. arm in that everything was a shit show. But to then to have Karoubi like to stand behind you and say, yeah, it is a shit show because nobody that should have been called, you know, was like nice to, to have that support but like that it's just that was a terrible situation to be in when when people's safety isn't being taken into concern and your whole job as an ad is to ensure the livelihood and safety of your crew and you're powerless to do so I think that that is a terrible, terrible place to be at. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 40:38
Yeah, that is that's not a good place, which actually leads me into my next question. Are there signs that interns, young interns and pas and other crew members can actually see when a production is going down quickly? Like this, this thing's, hey, today's not hey, well, what? Well, we're gonna work 18 hours today and not get paid? Like, what are those signs? Yeah, those little things that you just can start? Yeah. I know, you and I could smell it.

Christine Chen 41:11
Yeah. Morale is a big indicator, in my opinion. Sure, there's some people who are crankier than other people and tolerance is lower. But I think when you start to have when departments start to talk amongst each other, and usually, yeah, and you can feel an overall dissatisfaction. That's usually a problem. Or I feel like if the culture keeps changing a lot, that's usually not a good indicator, either. When they're when there's a lot of unnecessary. People just yell, that's also just morale, when people are angry, and just, you know, yell at each other. Yeah, I think those are pretty big indicators as well. Or when you have locations or people who are separate from the production show up randomly, and they're not happy. That's usually not a good indicator, either, because that means something wasn't cleared somehow, and things are about to go. Crazy.

Alex Ferrari 42:34
So let me ask you this. So because the director obviously is, should be the leader of the ship, the leader of the captain of the ship, we're moving things forward. Everybody moves around what the director? Is he or she's ideas of what's going going on?

Christine Chen 42:50
Yes. In theory, in theory theory.

Alex Ferrari 42:53
In theory, that's, that's very loose flair, fluid, very fluid, if you will. But generally speaking, and when you're on a Ridley Scott set, yes. Ridley runs the show, let's just throw that out there. Simple as that. Right. So when you have that situation, what are signs that you don't have a good leader on the set? What are things that you've seen, because I'm, I'm assuming you've seen one or two bad directors in your day, you have not only hurt the production, but taken out, you know, just not understand how the system works that they have to make their day. Yeah, we can't spend five hours on the Scorsese shot. Because we're not Scorsese. And we don't have the budget that we have. So we like how all these kinds of things I'm imagining, you know, as an ad, you've seen directors come up with shot lists, which is, by the way, my favorite thing to do with when I work with an ad for the first time, show up there, 150 shots, 150 shots, and I just hand it to them. And they're just like, No, no, no, that you see, just see why. Because it depends on that also tells me what kind of ad it is. If the ad is going to come up to me and go, so we got to talk about this man. There's just no effing way. We're gonna and I'm like, that's good. Or, you know, we're gonna give it a shot. I'm like, Okay, no, which way which kind of a deed and I want the first one. I want the one that says, there's no effing way. We're gonna do this. But let's figure it out. And let's figure out what what, and I go, don't worry. I always do that. Let's see how fast we can move. I know, I'll probably only end up with 15 or 20 of those shots. Yeah. And then once I say that, they're like, Okay, it's not nuts. But but I'm assuming you've had that shot list or that storyboard. So how do you how do you see what are those things about? What are the signs in a director that you can see that they just not? They're in over their head?

Christine Chen 44:46
Ah, I think when the crew starts to lose respect for the director and how I see it is when it goes from, let's see what the director wants to what do you want and I'm Whoa, wait, I'm not the director, I'm the ad, when they start to look at for new leader, that's a problem. So which happens a lot?

Alex Ferrari 45:09
And that could be the first ad or the DP. Yes. Or the generally the two that they go to.

Christine Chen 45:13
Yeah, exactly. And so once i And Mike, why are the numbers of questions directed at me have increased significantly, as they're like, Ah, okay. Or they start questioning? Why a lot. Instead of being like, okay, that's what they want, let's do this, or like, or the IRA, like, oh, they want this, okay, you know, type thing. That's, yeah, sigh conversations, whatever gets talked on on channel two. When you, you can really quickly pick out when people have stopped, it's, or when people are trying to leave as soon as possible after a set has wrapped or hasn't wrapped, or they're planning on which bar to go to afterwards. And that is the only thing keeping them from walking off the set. That's when you realize that the director has lost the crew. But yeah, it's, I think, it's when concerns that are being bypassed, because I'm the director, and not, you, they considered get bypassed a certain number of times, that's when you really lose the crew as well, you know, like, hey, we can't do this, because, and then like, whatever, like I'm the director, make it happen, you know, type thing, that's if you do this so many times, like, you're going to lose the crew, because that is a quick indicator that you have no understanding of why their job is important, or why their job takes a certain amount of time. And why you're glossing over it, you know, I see this happen a lot with specific positions. positions for is that usually are like makeup is a big one. Art, things like that it doesn't happen as much with camera, or even sound because I think it's that it's when people, especially first time directors, when they go on to strike the there's a very easy understanding of like, hey, if we don't have the right camera set up, you're not going to get your shot, right. But the other positions are harder to understand the importance of unless you have done a few films or or, or you've worked on a set enough to understand the importance of, and I think that's the issue is that new directors who haven't come up the ranks or worked in a position, it's perspective, and when you lack perspective, and don't respect all the positions on set, you will lose your crew, and you will lose your crew, and they will start to look for a new leader. And that leader is usually the DP or the ad. So and so when I start to get Hey, what do you think we should do about this? Or actors? Oh, man, if talent is coming to you? That's a bad thing. Yeah. Yeah. That is very bad, like crew. Okay, because usually the he has interface with the crew so that, you know, there's a certain extent that that's understandable. But I think when the talent, no longer goes to the director, and goes to you the ad, that is a big indicator that things are going downhill fast. Yeah, because the tablet should never really need to talk to the ad, the the whole job of a director is to help you talk to the tablet. So at the top, so I revise, put that first when the talent is talking to the end, or the DIA, or the TP talking to any other crew member about their performance or what they're supposed to do that it's not the director, jump ship. Right.

Alex Ferrari 49:14
Another thing is, too, that I think filmmakers listening don't understand is the importance of feeding the crew and feeding them well. And taking care of them. And having surprise, you know, in between meals, like hey, you know, we didn't we didn't we didn't budget for a full dinner, but we're going to do a walking dinner, you know, or something like that, where you know, they go out and get some burritos or something to kind of hold them over until they can get to the bar is something but that's something that it's almost a second thought to young filmmakers. So like oh yeah, just get a bunch of pizzas and like eat that. Pizzas kill production. It slows everything down. Spinning Wheel it slows it down everyone. It's stuffed on cheese and bread and things like With that I remember an old remember dove Simmons. He ran a course called the two day film school. And he was like this. Just grizzled. Roger Corman? UPM. And he Oh my god, the stories he would say. And he's like, I don't have a lot of sugary stuff on my crafty table, because it will cause sugar rushes. And if it causes sugar rushes if there's tension, fights will break out. These are little things that you just like I was my mind got blown. When I heard these things coming up. I was like, wow, I never thought about he goes, and God forbid, if you bring pizza onto a set God, like, like, yeah, am I wrong?

Christine Chen 50:42
No, you're not. And if you're been on set a while, and you're really good at your job, you can start these are the details you notice you plan for, like I, I can tell like from lunch, I'm like, Okay, we had this, therefore, I need to build an extra hour. Before we're gonna start getting hot. We're gonna start moving like I like, these are the little details or you're like, Oh, we ate that. Okay, well, the bathroom situation is going to be a whole thing. Yeah. So this is like redoes. Yeah. Ah, you start noticing all these little details.

Alex Ferrari 51:17
I had a friend of mine on, on a, he was on the set of 24. He was a production designer and 24. And I went on, just to visit him. And we were working on a project together. And I just went on to visit the set. And when you walk on set I just saw crafty was the most insane crafty I've ever seen in my life. And then I stayed for lunch, and there's lobster tail and steak, and I'm like, What is? What is this? Like? I live in the indie world. And, and it was like, because at that level, you've got to that's just that's just the way businesses run.

Christine Chen 51:58
It's nuts Yeah, I remember the first unions that I got on, it was in Texas 2016. And I've only done indies before that. And I Yeah, you look at the craft services table, and you're like, Wow, this is the entire budget of my film. Right here sitting sitting here as Yes, yeah. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 52:20
Can you imagine a Marvel set? I can only imagine a Marvel set like a quarter million dollar movie. I haven't been on a $200 million movie on either, you know, just you imagine the amount of chest? Ah, you know, it's it's, I can't even I can't even imagine. Now there's one thing that and this is one thing that you can get really in trouble for as a PA and an intern. And it's something that no one talks to you about I line by line if Christian Bale's situation with Shane Holbert taught us anything. And I don't think that conversation was so much about the eyeline, I think it was things going on. And then by the way, if you guys don't know what I'm talking about just Google Christian Bale on set. It's genius. Especially the remixes. But and by the way, Christian Bale had been on set since he was like, seven, five so he'd been it's not like he's new to set. Can you explain to everybody what an eyeline is? And how to avoid getting yelled at by talent, which is the worst thing other than being yelled at by the director or any of the other crew members? Like if you're being yelled at by talent? That's bad. Public, you pretty much you almost gone guarantee. Yeah.

Christine Chen 53:37
So an eyeline is like, whenever an actor is acting, there's a specific area where no matter where you're standing in that spot eyeline it's hard for the actor to not to they will definitely see you. And that's extremely distracting. So we are always trying to crew and are in it. If you don't have enough, you just know to as you know, Stan, and us more than usually where the video villages or something like that are in the shadows. Because if you think about if you're trying to, if you've ever tried to focus on anything, and you're trying to be in a difficult emotional spot, and you can't because a fly is flying around you that's what it feels like when somebody is standing in someone's eyeline. And so it's kind of a it's a frame of vision, where you will see that person if you're in that frame of vision, that's the eyeline and so your mate and you will accidentally sin eyeline and that's when you'll see people look at their look at the ground, be a tree, you know, like, try to not move around so that you're not Being a distraction to the performance and it's very easy to do. And you know, the best way to do it is in general, wherever the camera is, and where the action is being directed if you're kind of in that besides the director and the DP and stuff like that, you try to stay away from that area and and courtesy of asking somebody you know the talent aids or we are this is good spot or whatever. But if you can see the actor and you can make eye contact with that actor, you are in their eyeline move. Yeah, so if there that's the best way if you can watch the scene and you realize, oh, shit, the actor staring directly at me, you are in their eyeline if you can make eye contact with anybody who's acting that is within their eyeline. So

Alex Ferrari 55:59
And then also, the other part kind of tag on to that is being in the shot. Many times, have you seen the first day PA or intern has no clue about anything on a set, and they're just literally sitting in the back in the middle of the shot. When the director yells action, and you could just see them like this, like, I kind of could I kind of could see for this shot. Because you're in it. Like, and you hear the DP or camera or the director or the first ad hoc, get that guy out of the shot like you just like and you just start freaking out. Oh god, I've seen that happen too many times. Even if I see it on my site before we got to just get that guy out of the shop. If I'm in a great mood if I'm not in a bet if I'm if it's a rough day, I'm going to get my shots. Yeah. So please just be aware of your surroundings. Be aware of your surroundings. Yeah. And also, that's a date, that's a safety thing. Because some crazy stuff could be happening, the stunts could be going on, a crane could be coming down, please be aware of your surroundings and what's going on on set. And I know that's the job of a first ad to kind of let everybody in especially if there's a weapon on set, or there's a stunt going on on set. You know, you've got everybody,

Christine Chen 57:20
You bring it up a good point, I think the thing is that a film is a collaborative thing. And it's up to everyone to kind of do their part and be hyper aware. So with like safety, anything with safety, I always tell everyone on set like, Hey, I will be mad at you. If you double check my triple check whatever I'm talking about when it comes to safety, if a crew comes up and is like, hey, could we do the gun safety? Again? Could you shout out again that the street is locked or or that the stream is live or something like that? I'm not going to sure it under stressful situations I've like like a peer stressed about it. But like I would rather somebody triple double check my work when it comes to anything that has to do with safety. And yeah, no, I but I think collectively as a group, that's the only way for everybody to stay safe is if we kind of have like a checks and balance system. You know, there is a hierarchy. But people make mistakes, especially, we throw them under that much stress and limited time and limited resources and stuff like that. I think it's up to the tire team to look out for each other. So so everybody should be as hyper aware as possible. But it is so easy to become myopic, especially with what you're focused on undoing. And so yeah, no, it's I just think any any and this has nothing to do with the hierarchy. I think anybody should be looking out for their fellow man woman. Yes, it, you know,

Alex Ferrari 59:11
No question and has to be brought. Yeah, there's, you know, obviously, there's, you know, some some tragedies have happened in recent years about about onset safety and issues that that are horrible, and it happens, you know, stunts go wrong things happen. I think it's really about safety and trying to, like you say everybody's responsibility to say if see something, say something,

Christine Chen 59:33
Say something. Yeah, say something, say anything. Yeah. It's it can be hard to do in any group setting group think is a thing. So it'd be like, Oh, well, somebody else will bring this up or so you know, but I don't think you should, nobody should ever assume that, you know, type thing. So it's better to like, be annoying and have five people bring it up and like nobody bring up and then something happens. You know, some

Alex Ferrari 1:00:00
Agreed 100% Now I think it's appropriate to start wrapping up our conversation. What is an abbey singer and a martini shots? Oh? Because it's again, Carney language nobody? Anybody any normies out there with like what the abbey singer and Martin. So can we take what an AVI singer is and what a martini shows for everybody.

Christine Chen 1:00:23
So Abby singer is the second to last setup of the day. And people are usually very excited, because it's an indicator that we will almost go home. Sometimes it can be, you know, misnomer because Sure, maybe that second last setup takes forever. And you might do like 10 takes of it. But it is just a nice morale booster knowing that this is the second to last shot. And the reason why it's called Abbey singers, Abbey singer was actually a ad, I believe. And he was famous for saying, all right, that was great. But then you say, but let's do it again, type thing. So and one more, let's do one more. And so they coined the term Abbey singer after him. Because anytime it felt like they're about to finish, another thing was added right before it so it was before B singer and the Martini. Depending on where you are, some people in Texas have tried to make it the margarita or the Texas martini or whatever. But it's the last setup of the day, the martini and it's important in its when you've been on set, you hear it called out. I'm always trying to anticipate the abbey singer and the Martini, because these are indicators of letting departments know they can start to slowly wrap up stuff because, you know, anytime you've been anywhere you kind of like move in and you spread out and you your things get bigger and bigger and bigger spread out in space and, and having some extra time to slowly pack up your stuff and really make the exit of off the set that much faster and more efficient. So I'm always in veteran crew members will get annoyed if you don't call them because call the Abby singer or their Martini because they're like I could have been, you know, wrapping stuff. And now I have to after wrap spent an extra 30 minutes I could have been doing an in between setups, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:02:35
My team, am I having my teeth, but things that are that other setup breaking? Down? Right? Yeah, I suppose everyone's sitting around waiting for it just in case. Now I'm gonna ask you a few questions as all of my guests, what advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today?

Christine Chen 1:02:53
And get advice would be to always think about what value you can give somebody before you ask for value from somebody else. So in any space and time, I think if as long as you can be invaluable to somebody and helping them on their set. When you're first starting off, donating your time, that type of thing that pays off, it may not pay off immediately. But you never know, five years from now, that pa that you were nice to that you helped out could be that could be your ticket to another job. And that's not why you do that, you know, so don't mistake and oh, let's be nice to people so that, you know, five years could be off. Yeah, no, I think that's just a principle in life is just like people will always know, after set is done. And it's crazy. And you've all gone through war together. People always remember how you made them feel. And if you can leave a lasting impression of, hey, when I dealt with this one person, they always made my day better, or help was helpful or something you will do. Great going down line. So that's that's if you want to break in. I, as a veteran, I will hire people who make my life easier or just easier doesn't need necessarily mean a skill set user can just be like, Hey, you made sure I had water the whole day and I you know, you made sure that I didn't I knew where my keys were the whole day that you know if I will hire that person over somebody who's had five or 10 years of experience that you know doesn't who gives me an attitude or whatever. And that's the quickest way to get roped in to get to be in with with people is if you if I can feel like I can you have my back. right no matter what. And so Oh, yes, long story is if you can approach everybody as a make your life easier? How can I just brighten up your day a little bit? I think you'll do just fine. So

Alex Ferrari 1:05:18
What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film business or in life?

Christine Chen 1:05:23
That it's okay to walk away. I think this is an I still struggle with this, I think you will get to a point where you love your career so much, and you love your job so much, you will want to give everything to it 100 To, to a detriment to yourself. And you have to realize that if you aren't taking care of yourself, you're going to be useless to everybody. So that means burning out, that means giving more time and over committing and stuff like that, or doing projects with people who don't respect you as a person, or as for your time, or your safety or your well being. And it is okay, to set boundaries by walking away. And to know that your career is not going to go down the waist, you know, it's not, it's not going to be over. Just because you wouldn't stand for the way you were being treated a certain way on set, and you decide to leave. And this is very, very, very hard to do. Because when you're on set, especially if you're a position like it being an ad or whatever, you're responsible for many people, it's not just yourself. And so when you leave, it feels like you are letting down, not just yourself, but everybody else that depends on you. But in the end much though, we love our job, and hopefully it is your passion, it is a job. And your safety, livelihood and your peace of mind and mental health is not worth sticking out just a bit more, you know, because that could have long lasting effects, you know, for your ability to work later. So that's, I still I still struggle with this, you know, just walking away and being okay to to walk away. Or, It's hard because you in this industry, it will feel like whatever opportunity that you have is the only opportunity you'll always you'll ever get in career, it will feel that way. Right. And, you know, there will be months where you may not work, you know, and stuff and, and in that moment, maybe turning down $100 per day. 18 hour job seems stupid, because that's $100 but but you're also setting an expectation, right? So the hope is by standing up for not doing that you are enabling other people to also have the power to stand up for that. So that it sets a standard that that is not how the film industry should operate. You know, it's kind of like the whole me to thing too. It's like, that's for me, if anybody is disrespectful, in that way to any of my crew members, I will walk no matter what, because I'm standing up for something and and say, setting the precedent that this is not okay. And are set and I think it gets hard, because you'll be on some incredible opportunities and stuff like that. And you have to make that decision of is it worth this opportunity? Or is this going to actually be damaging, you know, in the future or, or dangerous or whatnot, you know, so right, that's the that's the hardest is is walking away. Nobody wants to walk away,

Alex Ferrari 1:09:08
Especially at the beginning, especially at the beginning, you know, and I had to do it so many times. In with my post I like literally just turned away, you know, one of the biggest music video companies in LA and I just like I can't work with you anymore. You just too abusive. And a certain point, you just have to say, I'm just gonna roll the dice and, and generally works out. Yeah, it's not you will work again. I mean, it's not like you will and and if anyone ever says you'll never work in this town again. That's a guarantee that he will work. There's nobody that means they're so full of themselves. Yeah. If it starts off with Do you know who I am? And then goes into you'll I'm the director. I'm the director and I'll make sure you never work in this town again. Don't be scared. That's bullshit. If that doesn't happen, I've never heard of it happening. Ever anyone getting listed? I'm sure it does happen. I've just never seen it or heard about it. And especially if you haven't done anything wrong, people realize that and no one has that much juice. Not in today's world, maybe in the olden days where there was like, you know, 15 Productions going on in the entire country at one time. Sure, but now there's just too much work and yeah, it's Yeah.

Christine Chen 1:10:27
Yeah, don't compromise your integrity and compromise things like that. I think that's the hardest thing is walking away so hard. It's like a bad relationship. No, it's not working. I don't want to break away I want to break up with you. Because it's comfortable tonight.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:44
Oh, that's a whole other conversation which is a whole other podcast. And last question, three of your favorite films of all time?

Christine Chen 1:10:53
Three of my favorite I mean, it's funny this question always makes me laugh because all my stuff is not very sophisticated. I love Love Actually.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:06
Fantastic film. I love second best Christmas movie of all time behind diehard.

Christine Chen 1:11:14
I don't know I would argue because then the beta whether diehard is a Christmas movie,

Alex Ferrari 1:11:17
We had an episode. Someone I had a researcher Come on. It has been proven by the numbers that Die Hard is a Christmas

Christine Chen 1:11:25
Yeah, it is. I love that movie. I love Forrest Gump. So Epic is epic, epic epic film. And then I can watch Shawshank Redemption at any time any point any where if it pops up I will just find myself fixated on it and just watch

Alex Ferrari 1:11:48
Stop talking dirty to me. That's that's my number one Shawshank everybody everyone I know everybody listening just said Shawshank Yeah, no Shawshank is my number one is, you know, I just absolutely adore that film. And it has so many layers. And it's so deep and it just cuts through so much of the BS and yeah, it just it's so it's almost as perfect of a film in my opinion as it is.

Christine Chen 1:12:12
And I'll keep watching and being like why is it so perfect? And then I'll start watching and get lost in it and then forget that I was watching it to try to learn like something from it. I do that a lot with good movies.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:23
And what and another one that was the one that he did that Frank Darabont did right afterwards which is Green Mile is another one of those that just yeah, it just hits just hits right spot. Now where can people pick up your book get

Christine Chen 1:12:39
Sure right now getreelisms.com is a spot we haven't branched out yet to Amazon. That's a business decision. But yeah, get reelisms.com online. I think we also have an Etsy store. So if you use Google get reelisms and make sure the reel is R E E L. You should you'll be able to find it eventually. Maybe in a year or so we'll we'll be on Amazon stuff. But for now it's a boutique. And it'll be fun if you ever go into a rental house and Austin our I think there's a few now in Los Angeles and stuff like that. You see it take a photo. It's always fun. But yeah, but yeah, get Rosen's dot com is the best way to go about getting it.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:26
Christine, thank you so much for coming on the show and for writing this book. And I wish again, I had this when I was coming up and it is invaluable for anybody being on set it is a it's a survival guide on how to survive on set. Just understanding this is like the it's like the Rosetta Stone. Yes. It's a stone of film talk on set and how to understand it and everything. So I appreciate you my dear. Thank you again for all the hard work.

Christine Chen 1:13:53
Thank you so much for having me!



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