IFH 816: From Extras to Director’s Chair: The Filmmaking Journey of Rocky Costanzo

Alex Ferrari 0:00
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Alex Ferrari 1:11
Nothing's by design, man, things you just you just got to have the love. You got to have the passion. Gotta just want to make movies. And then sometimes there's a lot of there's a lot of roadblocks, man, you know, but every once in a while, there's something kind of cool that comes along.

Dave Bullis 2:11
Hey, Rocky, thanks a lot for coming on the show. Hey man, thanks a lot. So Rocky, you know, just to get started, it's a question I ask everybody, and that question is Rocky. How did you get started in the film industry?

Rocky Costanzo 2:11
Oh, wow, let's see. Well, this goes back. I've been a part of it. I've been on the outside, first of all, for a long time, forever. But I started when I was a kid, trying to get into acting and stuff. So I started doing some extra work, and got on some some TV shows and stuff. And it was pretty much on those shows that I found the love for making movies. So I started making, like pretty much every other filmmaker you make your home movies and stuff starring your family members and friends and and then it was around 2000 that I the year. 2000 when I made my attempted to make my first feature.

Dave Bullis 2:11
So, you know, your experience of going on those film sets, you know, you know, what were some of the, you know, the moments that you started to realize, like, this is really connecting with you,

Rocky Costanzo 2:11
Right! Well, it was, I can narrow it down to one show I worked as an full time extra on the on the Wonder Years, which was a pretty popular show back in the day. I don't know how many kids know about it now, but it was, it was that show that I actually was hired by the production company and work full time. So there's anyone that knows, anyone that's worked as an extra, knows that you you're on set, and then they, they kind of kick you off and go back to your holding area or school when they're setting up shots. And I would always find a way to sneak back on set, because I was just so fascinated by watching them setting up the lights and the camera. And what was interesting is that it actually ended up, I actually ended up getting a stand in gig because I was just hanging around, so I got to be a stand in for one of the stars on the show. So that was it really and then I got, I got to meet Daniel, Daniel Stern, who was directing, he, I think he directed a few of the episodes, and he was also the narrator for the lead character on the show. And got to meet him. And it was a really awesome thing to meet him, because, of course, I know him from the Home Alone series, so it just again, leaving that show, I had a whole new found love of being behind a camera instead of in front of it.

Dave Bullis 5:27
No, it's funny about the stand in story, because I was, it was almost like, if you were standing around someone's like, gonna be a stand in

Rocky Costanzo 5:27
Exactly. That's literally what it was.

Dave Bullis 5:27
Yeah, you know, I remember The Wonder Years. You know, it's funny because Kevin, who was a star who I and whose real name escapes me at the moment, but Fred Savage, that's right. Why did I not remember that he actually, I ended up bumping into him one day at a on the set of it's always something in Philadelphia. And I was like, Oh, my God. I was like, you know, you know, it's Fred Savage. And he was like, yeah, yeah, hi. It's very nice to meet you. And he was a director now, and that's why, you know, that's what he's been doing now these days,

Rocky Costanzo 5:27
I've heard that, I think he's doing some TV stuff. And, you know, yeah, that kid was, I mean, during that time, it was mega it was, you know, being on set, we would film in a lot of high schools and stuff, and that kid was like a Beatle. I mean, just hugely famous. It was, it was fun to be around.

Dave Bullis 5:27
Well, I mean, that that's amazing. I can only imagine, you know, it would be like to be a kid actor like that age, and just be so popular like that,

Rocky Costanzo 5:27
Exactly. And that's what I grew up watching. You know, if you grew up in the 80s like I did, it was, it was all about sitcoms and stuff, and I that's what I always wanted to do. I always wanted to be that, that, you know, teen star, kid and everything. But I'm actually happy now that I didn't,

Dave Bullis 10:33
Sort of like the two quarries, Corey Feldman and Corey Haynes, exactly. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I mean, those, you know, those guys were just, although all the horror stories they have, yeah, Corey Haim Sally passed away. But we know you worked on another show that was popular in the 90s, you know, as an actor, and that was Beverly Hills, not a tour now.

Rocky Costanzo 10:52
I did, yeah, and again, very, this is all very like, extra stuff, and that pretty much any show that had to do with teens at the time. I did, you know, there was the 90210, and then a party of five. And again, I still remember these life goes on, any anything that had to do with teens I was a part of. But again, I credit the Wonder Years, because that was the one that I was actually employed full time. I was, I was, I worked on that show for about three years, so it was, that's where I got the experience. And once I started doing some of these other like the 902 and o's and stuff, those were just little little gigs here and there. And that's actually when I started to tune out and not really want to do that anymore.

Dave Bullis 11:42
So, you know, you made your, your first film in 1999 godsend, correct?

Rocky Costanzo 11:48
That was still a short film. My, my feature debut was shortly after that, with return to innocence,

Dave Bullis 11:57
I see, so, you know. So when you were making, you know, The Wonder Years everybody goes out to an O you were doing, you know, the extra work you So, did you try? You know, start making some attempts to me, you know, making films like meaning, did you start making what you know would be, quote, unquote, your student films?

Rocky Costanzo 12:14
Yeah, because I didn't go to film school again. I barely went to high school because I was on set a lot, but so I would credit what really happened was I got involved in public access TV, which I don't know if it's even exists anymore, but that's kind of that was an avenue, back in the day before the internet and YouTube, where you can actually go and borrow equipment from the from the cable studio, and then go out and make your movies. And it was funny, because usually people would make their cooking shows or political shows or interview kind of things. And I was out making, like horror films and stuff. And when it it was, it was fun to see it kind of air on, on TV and everything. So really, I would credit that is almost being my, my quote, unquote, film school. And then, of course, just learning, learning along the way. You never stop learning.

Dave Bullis 13:13
Very true, very true, Rocky. You always got to keep learning, yeah. So you know, when you, when you were, you know, started making your own films, you know, what were some of the things I mean, that that, you know, really shocked and surprised you when you were making your films? Meaning, Were there certain things that, like, like, problems that you didn't anticipate coming out of nowhere? And by the way, that's kind of a loaded question, rocky Yes, because it happens to us all right?

Rocky Costanzo 13:38
It does, yeah, and, you know, and it goes back to what I said, you're always learning that I take something from every film, nice that my very first film, the thing that I learned was, was lighting. I knew nothing about lighting. And we had a really good DP where the film was, well with shot in color, but we wanted, we wanted a black and white film noir style kind of film. So this guy knew how to light for black and white, and so I was watching him, and I kind of picked that up, and then sound has always been a problem. And so I think sound issues, I kind of picked that up on the second film, and wanted to learn more about that. And I think the storytelling and working with actors has always kind of been natural for me, because, again, I kind of come from that background as an actor and writing scripts and stuff so that, you know, dealing with actors has never really been an issue for me, although I've heard other filmmakers say differently,

Dave Bullis 14:45
You know, you know that's, that's a question was going to ask you. Was about, you know, because you come from an acting background, do you think you're more comfortable directing actors?

Rocky Costanzo 14:53
Yeah, I, you know, it's, it's strange. The more I'm i think i At first I was come. Completely I was so clueless on the technical side of filmmaking, and I'm still not that much better, but I would really spend a lot of time with the actors, and lately it seems like I want to let the actors kind of play themselves. I don't want to really be the puppeteer, and they're just, you know, again, the puppets on my strings, or whatever. I like to see them play, because I think it brings out a natural thing, natural performance. And you know, when you're in the audition room and you've had callback after call back, you see these people, and you've decided that you want this actor or actress for the role. That means you want them. That means you're happy with them. You're not going to get anything better than what they're giving you, maybe a little better, but not, not much. So you guys, you're happy with what you got. And so I like to let them play. So my focus is actually become a little bit more into the shots and the style and the camera movements and stuff,

Dave Bullis 16:09
Yeah, you know, I understand completely what you mean. Because sometimes I think that, you know, you hire certain actors, you hire certain crew because for there's a reason for it, you know. And I think you know, if you do, if you have those people hired, you should, you know, let them do the work that they were hired to do. If you know what I mean Exactly. Because, like, look, they say Rocky, half of of directing is casting the right roles, or Eric casting the right people in the right roles.

Rocky Costanzo 16:37
Absolutely, it's so true.

Dave Bullis 16:40
So, you know, Rocky, no, as we talk about, you know, your directing career, you know, I You did God send you did return to innocence, and in 2005 you followed up with hallowed, yeah. So, you know, I wanted to ask, you know, as we talk about your your directing style as well, but your writing style, you know, because I believe you've written all your of your own movies. Correct?

Rocky Costanzo 17:02
It not, not correct. I did write a few of them, and hallowed is one that I wrote and and also hallowed is the the feature length version of godsend, which was the short I did in 99 so and it was that, was that was that film was actually kind of shot out of frustration, because I grew up on horror films. Again, in you're in the 80s, you were, you were, you were attacked by horror films. They were everywhere. So I grew up on those. And we were trying to get another film done at the time, and it fell apart. And so I was like, you know, I have a camera. I got a couple lights. I learned a little bit of what to do on my on return to innocence. So let's just make a crazy slasher movie. And so I wrote, directed that one. And, and, yeah,

Dave Bullis 17:56
So, you know, I want to ask about your writing style Rocky and, you know. And basically that question is, you know when you're when you're writing, do you subscribe to any sort of method or anything like that, or like, you know what I mean, like the USC sequencing method, or, say, the cat or anything, or do you just sort of start with a heavy treatment? I wanted to, I'm just asking, you know, how you know you go about writing, or your own screenplays?

Rocky Costanzo 18:17
Sure, sure. Well, again, writing, especially as I'm getting older, writing is not coming easy to me anymore, meaning the at the actual act of sitting down at a desktop and starting to type, I am the writers that can just sit down and just away they go, Okay, I don't think I've ever been able to do that. I'm still what I do. As a matter of fact, I just got back from Santa Barbara because I'm softly writing a new a new prod, a new script, and I still have a pad and a pen, and I just, I come up with actual, not even, not even a story. I just come up with ideas like this will be cool. This will be a, like a cool moment in a movie. I don't know what the movie is, but this will be a cool moment. And then I start thinking of characters. And really, I have everything laid out on paper before I even sit down at a desk and start actually constructing the script.

Dave Bullis 19:35
So, you know, you still use a pen and a paper. Then do you do to write out everything? Like in the treatment, the outline, everything,

Rocky Costanzo 19:41
No, it's really just notes. It's just filled with a bunch of different notes. And then in my head, the idea starts to come around. And then I don't really do the treatment first, I just start getting into the script. And I also write straight through. And if I'm if I'm thinking ahead, meaning I start at page one, and I literally just go, go all the way through. If I come up with an idea, something strikes me. Then, then I go back to the notes, and I make some notes, like, I might know the ending of the film before I even know anything else. Like, I know I know how I want to end this thing, but I have no idea how we're going to get there, so I will write down the ending, make notes of the ending, and then when I get there, just just, you pretty much just put it in,

Dave Bullis 20:45
Yeah, you know, I had al watt, who runs the LA Raiders lab. And you know, he actually talked about that where he said, you know, if you know where you're going to begin or where you're going to be end, he said, we have to let our subconscious sort of fill in the gaps, right? And, you know, he and he would say, you know, just imagine your hero transformed. Imagine you're here, you know what I mean. So that way you can sort of let your subconscious sort of piece all those things together

Rocky Costanzo 21:07
Exactly. And again, like I said, I'm not a natural writer, so, you know, my way is my way. I started writing mainly because I needed a film to make. So I'm the director first. And so no one, I couldn't find a writer. No one else was, you know, doing any writing for me. So it's like I was kind of forced to, well, if I want to make a movie, I got to write the darn thing.

Dave Bullis 21:32
Yeah. And, you know, Rocky, I think that is sort of what I've been noticing, is more and more, is that, you know, there's, there's two camps, either the people who sort of say, well, you know, I'm gonna audition for this, I'm gonna write this screenplay, or I'm gonna try to direct this movie, or this or that. And then there's the other camp, where it says, You know what, if I'm gonna do movies, I'm gonna have to write this for myself,

Rocky Costanzo 21:55
Right! And you're also seeing, which is, it is a way in but I think a lot of actors that that that try, that they realize how, how much, how hard it is, you know, it's not, you know, just I'm an actor and I can't get a gig, so I'm just going to write a movie for myself. They don't realize that. Okay, well, now you got to get the thing option, and you got to sit around and hope that it goes to production and and then you got to fight to make sure that you get the lead in that, in that project, or whatever. But to go with more what you're saying, I'm you're starting to see that a lot. It's almost like everybody is doing everything nowadays. So actors are not just actors. They are actors, producers, directors, you know, they're, they're everything. And I've always kind of just been one, one thing, like a director, and, of course, writing, if I'm, if I'm gonna, if I don't have a writer, I'll write it, and then, and then direct. But I'm seeing, like, it just seems like everybody's doing everything these days.

Dave Bullis 22:59
Yeah, very true. Because I, you know, I have all my guests on to prove it. But no, you know, but no, I know exactly what you mean. Because, you know, now it's a lot easier to make a film. You know, I have an upcoming guest. And, you know, he was saying that he made his film in the moment, making films in the late 80s, early 90s. And what happened was, he said, you needed a whole army to make a film. He goes nowadays, you know, with digital, he goes some EOC, small gorilla crews, and they're pulling off stuff that he used to need, like, you know, 50-100 people to do

Rocky Costanzo 23:30
Exactly, you know, and it's kind of an interesting thing here is that I feel like, almost like a pioneer to this digital phase, because I was, I was shooting on video when it wasn't cool to shoot on video. You know, it was a time where everybody, if you don't shoot on film, then you're, you're an amateur, you're not professional. And so it's, yeah, I've, I'm used to working like that with a very small crew. The current film that we just did ditch party, that's probably the biggest, probably the biggest crew we had. But I'm used to just my early stuff. I was ever the everything, the camera guy, the, you know, the sound guy, the producer, director, editor. In some cases, I even lay down some some music. So I'm kind of, I'm kind of used to that, that mold,

Dave Bullis 24:26
Yeah, I, you know, there's a, there's a book I always talk about. It's by Stu mark of it's called Rebel rebels TV Guide. And it's sort of based off of Robert Rodriguez. Is Rebel Without a crew. And I think he, know he was, again, was one of the pioneers to where he just, you know, got a crew. Well, sorry, he had no crew. He got a camera, a minimal cast, and went down to Mexico and made a film. And, you know, that book has been, you know, I think every filmmaker nowadays has that book in their library, yeah, because it is just so influential, you know, and it just, it's always about, you know, having that can do attitude and sort of pushing it. Ed, and, you know, that's why, you know, that's why I think a lot of this came from we, you know, now the this sort of paradigm has shifted, and we don't need, you know, as many people as we needed to, as we needed before, you know. And certain things have changed. Certain things have gotten less expensive. Certain things maybe have gotten more expensive. You know, it just, I think, you know, it just depends upon, you know, your network, and what kind of movie you're making

Rocky Costanzo 25:24
Exactly, and you know, the film should come first to the thing that's changing now. And first of all, let's go back. You're going to mention Robert Rodriguez. You know, a director that I think really started that was Rick Winkler, and he was the influence of a lot of those Rodriguez and Kevin Smith and with his film slacker, but, and then yet, you're right, that had the anyone can do this attitude. And that was a great time. I missed that boat, that 90s wave, which is definitely not there anymore, of course, but nowadays it seems like what, what I this is my perspective here is that it seems like it's easier to make a movie, but it's harder to get the thing released. And there's so much content now, and there's the festivals are getting so many submissions, so it's hard to get into festivals. It's hard to get distribution for your films. And so you're the you have options now, of course, you can kind of self distribute, and I think that's kind of where we're going. It's really things have changed so much, and in such a little short amount of time, too.

Dave Bullis 26:39
Yeah, you know, I have had a couple guests come on who, well, actually, more than a couple guests who've actually said that, you know, they, they said, you know, it used to be there was a certain amount of script submission, certain amount of movie submissions to like Sundance, because obviously, you know, Rocky, everyone wants to get into Sundance. You know, that's sort of like a dream and, you know, and now he said, That's the new key. He goes, it's almost like movies. It was, actually, I was Paul pedito, who runs script gods must die. And he actually, he actually said something to the effect of, you know, it's almost like, you know, movies get, you're easier to make, but now getting people to see them as a hard part and gain distribution. And you know, he was actually asking, because I've had a couple distribution people on here, you know, what is the key? You know, what does it take to get on the front page of iTunes? What does it take to get on the front page of Netflix, you know? And, and is it even worth it? You know what I mean. And by the way, my the answer to that is a very long winded answer, but, but, you know, you know, for everyone listening, Jason Brubaker runs an awesome site at filmmaking stuff, calm and he can help you out. He runs, he's actually head of distribution at the stripper, which actually is an aggregator, and they're big into distribution stuff.

Rocky Costanzo 27:51
Yeah, sorry to interrupt you, but yeah, I don't know. I talked with him, as a matter of fact, and we almost did, we almost did something with him, and still might, so I'm familiar with him, yeah.

Dave Bullis 28:05
Oh, cool, yeah. Jason's a great guy. And you know that that's, that's part of the thing, you know. And honestly, you know, you last on, a couple weeks ago, on an episode of the podcast, and one of the bumpers, Rocky. I even said, you know, if, if I had no connections. If I had, you know, I mean, if I had nothing, and I was gonna make a movie, right, I would make a movie for, you know, try to give one location cinema. Try to, you know, make it obviously, as cheap as possible. Get my asset list, my actors list, my my location list, make the best film I can with the story first, you know, obviously the story has to be so compelling, so interesting, and from there. I know it sounds crazy Rocky, but I would almost really if it cost me almost nothing to make this thing, or maybe even, you know, maybe 500 bucks, I would put it on YouTube for free to build an audience. As crazy as that sounds. I know it might seem crazy to release a movie for free, but in a way, if I if that was going to be like maybe a student film, or one of my first films, or, you know, I would just me release it for free, and just to see if I can get an audience and try to get attention that way. Because Fede Alvarez, who directed the Evil Dead remake, was able to do that because he put up panic attack, which was a short film, and then he was able to, and he got so much attention through that, that they gave him the, I think universal, gave him the go ahead to direct Evil Dead,

Rocky Costanzo 29:25
Right! And you're right. There's no wrong way to do it. And, and then that's the thing is, is unique. And, and you said, the key thing there is, is cheap, you know, you we have the capability these days. There's, there's cameras, cheap cameras out there that you can use, and like you said, story first, everything you're saying is absolutely correct, and you make, you make something real cheap. You don't have to spend a lot of money, you know? You go back to the film hallowed my second film there that was literally almost no budget. I literally just Home Depot shot. Stop lights and stuff and some gels. And it was basically me at some points. I was like, even on roller blades to get, like, Dolly kind of shots and stuff that that was my that was the one experience I ever got where the film was completely bought outright from a distributor, released on DVD, and so that movie cost nothing, you know, and if you see the film, I mean, I can say this, I can criticize my own work here, but it's not that great, you know. And it again, it costs nothing, but here I get a nice check. So the point is, you never know, you know. And so try anything, if you can make a film and put it out there on YouTube and someone discovers it, and you might be able to get a gig off that, you know.

Dave Bullis 31:02
Yeah, that's, you know. And you know, it's like you said, we always keep learning, and that's why, you know, even when I say release a film for free, I have friends of mine who got noticed in the early days of YouTube. Like I'm talking 2004 they got noticed on YouTube by Lionsgate. Lionsgate actually contacted them and said, Hey, what's this zombie movie you're doing? And they thought it was a joke, and they ignored it, and then they kept they emailed him back through YouTube and said, No, we want to talk to you about buying your film. And you know, that's a whole nother story, but, you know, it's amazing what can happen. You know, especially with social media. You know, the more people I talk to, the more people are adamant that you know if you're going to be any, if you're going to be in the entertainment business, now you have to have some kind of social media presence. Now, you know what I mean, and you have to have a website, because if you don't, they kind of look at you like, Well, why don't you have a Why don't you on Twitter? You know why? If you're a filmmaker, why don't you have a YouTube? You know what I mean?

Rocky Costanzo 31:58
Right! It's, it's true and, and there's guys like me that struggle with that. I'm not real big on the social stuff, but you're right. You need to, you got to get on board.

Dave Bullis 32:08
Well, you know, I actually want to talk more about, you know, you're directing projects, you know, Rocky. I There's a film one to ask about. I'm actually interested in knowing myself, but it's, it's 11.11, yeah, yeah. I actually, you know, I was actually interested in asking about that project. So for, actually, for me and for everyone listening, can you tell us a little bit about 11.11?

Rocky Costanzo 32:33
It's the film that, yeah, it's kind of a sore subject, not, I'm glad you brought it up. It's just great. But it's the one film I did that, that we never finished, and it had so much hype behind it. And so anyway, it was, well, what do you want to know about it?

Dave Bullis 32:53
Well, actually, I just want to know, like, you know what? What the whole synopsis of the project was, all that stuff. Because the reason I asked was because I saw the on IMDb. A lot of people were asking about it, so I figured, you know, I might as well, I better ask about it too.

Rocky Costanzo 33:05
Yeah. Well, again, it goes back to this film. Started in oh four, and we, that was the film that fell apart, and we started doing hallowed. Remember, I said that we did hallowed out of frustration because that film fell apart. It was just a mess all the way, all the way through. But the main, the main thing was that it started with just like a coming of age type of thing, which we've gotten, some people said it reminded of, like, stand by me and that kind of thing. And I think maybe that might have been what would what the interest was. And we had, again, had some issues. So that script actually was changed to where we brought the kids back years later. And so I wanted to make something to where we could play off that angle of their kids, and then we can pick up the script and pick up the story. I mean, of them later, and it's actually a long story. It gets really complicated, the storyline of that film.

Dave Bullis 34:12
You know, I didn't mean to bring up a sword spot Rocky. I just, the reason I asked was because so many people were asked about IMDb. I thought, you know, that'd be, you know, I better ask about it too. But,

Rocky Costanzo 34:22
Yeah, no, no problem at all. Man,

Dave Bullis 34:24
Oh, cool. So is, I know you said it wasn't completed, but is there anywhere? Is it it? Is it released ever or?

Rocky Costanzo 34:32
What we did was, there is a documentary that we that we released on it, which is the rise and fall of 11.11, well, shelved is the name of it. Because we had a, we had a camera crew on on set getting behind the scenes footage, and so that, that ultimately turned out, turned into the documentary. So you can, you can find that, and that actually will answer all your questions. I'm sure I'm. The film. It, it's a very lengthy documentary, and it's kind of cool, because it really shows what, what it's like to be on the set of a small independent film with, you know, with very little money. And it kind of walks through, it's like a day by day kind of journal, if you will, of the film,

Dave Bullis 35:23
Yeah, and I'll definitely link that in the show notes for everyone listening. You know, I, you know, I'm always fascinated, you know, because, obviously, I've been on a ton of film sets as well. And, you know, I'm always, you know, I always like documentaries, because I love Heart of Darkness, which was, you know, the documentary shadowing Apocalypse Now, because I always find stuff like that fascinating.

Rocky Costanzo 35:43
Oh yeah, they're great. I love them too,

Dave Bullis 35:47
You know. And just, you know, obviously, next movie after 11.11, was midnight cabbie, so, you know, for everyone listening, you know, can you just give us a short synopsis of the film?

Rocky Costanzo 35:56
Yeah, well, I think I always wanted to do a comedy. It's weird. We this was like, maybe our fifth or fifth film in, sixth film in and I realized I haven't even attempted comedy. And the kind of filmmaker that am is I love the challenge of doing something new, a different genre, doing something different. I'd done the horror film thing. I've done a couple of dramas at that point, and so I have an attempted comedy. So the comedy that I grew up on was, again, the early 80s stuff like airplane and where, you know, political correctness was out the window, you know. So we wanted to make something like that and just a fun, goofy popcorn movie. And it was, it was actually a lot of fun to make, and I'm pretty proud of that one.

Dave Bullis 36:56
And so I believe that's the one where the cab driver has one night to raise enough money to get his brother out of, out of sort of harm's way, I think is his brother's being held captive in a warehouse. Am I

Rocky Costanzo 37:07
correct? Yeah, it's over a gambling debt, and the main character, Doug, has to bail him out. And every place that he tries to get get some cash, he can't do it. So it pretty much, again, it's a zany comedy, so he the only way to make the money is he gets put in this situation where he has to drive a cab all night, and he's constantly just picking up one weirdo after another, you know, to meet his goals. So again, yeah, it's a race against the clock kind of thing. Again, comedies that I used to watch as a kid, it's pretty much what it's what it is.

Dave Bullis 37:46
Yeah, very cool. I actually get I was looking around your IMDB, and I saw that, and I actually that one actually caught my eye, because it actually is I saw race against the clock, comedy about a guy who has to have a taxi all night collecting fares to bail his brother who's being held hostage. And that's one I wanted to ask about, just because I thought, you know, that was a pretty interesting log line.

Rocky Costanzo 38:06
Yeah, it was. And it was fun, too. It was a fun film.

Dave Bullis 38:11
So, you know, I want you know, now you have a new movie coming out called ditch party. And I wanted to ask, you know, obviously, you know, since so we were talking about your earlier works, and we talked about, know, now you have ditch party coming out. So basically, has your writing and changed as well as your as your directing style? Have has it changed and evolved over time? Or do you sort of have the same sort of method you used every project?

Rocky Costanzo 38:35
Okay. Well, yeah, ditch party is different in almost every way. And I'll start by saying that I did not write ditch party. This was a, nor was this my like, quote, unquote, like my film. This was a film that, like you can say that all the other films was, was my creation. I was behind the producing of it and directing and in some cases writing, I did collaborate with the writer on this, on bitch party, like I do. I love to work with writers. I love to collaborate. But I was not the writer, nor was I the producer on this one. So this was the first film that I was actually approached by the by Noel G, the producer of the film, and his partner, David ramick, who head up entangled entertainment. It was, it was over a phone call. I was not expected to do anything with them. I was focused on another film that I was trying, still trying, to get off the ground, and they this was almost like thrown in my lap. So it was a first experience to actually direct something that wasn't completely mine.

Dave Bullis 40:03
So I know you, the writer was Richard, me, so, you know, and I can see you've worked with him before. So do you have, like, this working relationship where, you know, he sort of, you know, you guys sort of collaborate a lot of projects?

Rocky Costanzo 40:15
Yeah, it's starting to turn that way. He we met. He's actually an actor. He's like one of the lead actors in my first film, going back to return to innocence, and he's just kind of been, been hanging around, and, you know, we brought up the fact that he writes, and so night cabbie was, yeah, was probably the first collaboration, and then bitch party. So, yeah, it, you know, it's kind of become a thing.

Dave Bullis 40:45
And, you know, that goes back to something else that, you know we were talking about is, you know, some, some directors have a certain cast and crew they always work with. Because the reason is, you know what you're going to get. You know what I mean. That's why I always wonder why Tim Burton always worked with Johnny Depp and and always work the same people and John Carpenter as well. Now I get it, you know, years later, if I've done projects, Now I get why that those same people always work together for one project to another.

Rocky Costanzo 41:09
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Dave Bullis 41:12
And you know, so that way, you know, you know, you know each other's weaknesses and strengths. You know each other's you know everything, and it just Yeah, and you know, this too rocky. You know, making a movie is like seriously being in a relationship, you know, and you're gonna be asking yourself, it's like Jenna Edwards, I had her on, she said she there's, there's two ways that she ever she to criteria she uses to evaluate people for coming onto a project. Can you do your job and could I live with you for a month in a corner?

Rocky Costanzo 41:39
Yep, that's that's about, that sums it up right there. Because it's not, it's not just the them as the actors. Can you, can you tolerate that person you know? So very true.

Dave Bullis 41:52
Yeah. And for everyone listening, though, can you just give us a short log line about ditch party?

Rocky Costanzo 41:58
Yeah. Okay, so you know the plot isn't anything when you look at the when you look at the marketing stuff, the trailer and everything to play, it's really not anything that we haven't seen before. You know, kid shows up to school with a gun and starts, you know, firing away. What I wanted to do again with the with your initial phone call is we were going to basically do one room set up, kind of what you were talking about before. But what's the reason, you know, you have films like The Breakfast Club, where these kids are in the same room, the reason they're there is because they have Saturday detention. So what's the reason? And there's been a lot of documentaries on this subject. There's, I mean, heck, it's on TV every other night, you know, another another, saying this problem is still happening. And I wanted something. I haven't seen this. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. But I personally haven't seen a film where the perspective is the kids in the room. So the focus is not on the shooter or glorifying what the shooter is doing. It's about the kids that are trapped in a room and what they go through, the drama that they go through, and you can't. And I wanted, the rule was, I want the camera in the room with them. The camera is going to be basically another character. And the we started realizing that if you're going to do a feature film and it's set in one room the entire time, that's a challenge, and it's tough to keep, especially today's audience compelled, you know, to watch sit through an hour and a half of them in one room. So we started kind of bending the rules, and said, Okay, if, if one of the characters leaves the room, and we have the green light that the camera can leave the room. So, but anyway, in a nutshell, that it's, it's really the focus, it's the perspective of this film is that it's in the room with the victims,

Dave Bullis 44:09
You know, in a way, have you seen Green Room? By the way, green room is kind of like that, you know, Green Room takes place in one location, literally, you know, and it's, it's in the green room, obviously. So it's about a punk band. They go to this sort of Nazi punk bar, and as they're leaving, they witness a murder, and they, they, they're hiding out in the green room, and they're trying to get out of there. And now this nut, you know, and, and it's, you know, it's great, it's fascinating. But this is what you know, and we were talking about earlier, is, you know, how do you create compelling one location cinema, I think, you know, green room does a great job of that. And it's just what we were talking about with, with ditch party, you know, I like that idea to where, if a character leaves a room, obviously, you know, the camera can, I'm sorry, yeah, if character leaves room, a camera can follow, right, you know? And, but. This is what I think Rocky is, I sort of think this is the new sort of Hallmark, or definition of this era is, you know, making films in one location. And honestly, I think it's, it's it's good because it makes you a better storyteller, because you have to, sort of, you know, always push yourself to tell a better story. And I think it was maybe Kevin Smith who said, you know, if the audience, you know, when he was writing red state, if he knew what was going to happen next, he would completely get rid of it, because he figured that's what the audience would assume as

Rocky Costanzo 45:32
Well. Absolutely, yeah, and you're right, and it doesn't allow a lot of freedom for your effects or camera team to get all crazy. You know, you're, they're stuck in one room so they can't go wild. And I'm, because I'm with you, I'm story is, and it's been said from generation to generation, it's story, story, story. And you know, all the young filmmakers out there, that's, that's the thing that I feel like that's not the focus. Everyone keeps saying the greats from the 70s, those great filmmakers. They keep saying story, story, story. And yet, with the new technology, everyone's all into these tricky shots and drones and and everything. So it's, you know, again, if you want, if you want a good movie? It starts with the story.

Dave Bullis 46:22
Yeah, I actually had a friend of mine who shot a film, and I, when I asked him what it was about his first his first words were, oh man. We had a 4k drone flying over this thing. I go, Yeah, I sure that looks freaking amazing, man. But I said, What's it about? And he's like, oh, you know, you know. And we had all this other stuff like, Oh my god. So yeah, the story has to be key, because, you know, audiences are savvy. Honestly, they will notice if there's no substance there, you know what I mean. So that's why, when you and I are talking about stories, first, they're always going to be, you know, hooking on that story. And I wanted to ask real quick about ditch party, you know, I, you know, five students trapped themselves in the basement of their high school doing an all out assault on students and faculty. I wanted to ask, you know, did you actually film in a real high school?

Rocky Costanzo 47:10
We did, yeah, and that was, that was really fun. And also, again, a different challenge. We filmed some of it at a high school. And then we were on set for the the actual room. Now we were planning on shooting this thing in the in the summer, before kids got back to into school, but it didn't work that way, that we were waiting on funding to, you know, happen and everything. So we actually shot during school when school was in session. Now we were on the weekends, but the challenge wasn't so much the filming. The challenge was getting every because we kind of destroyed that school. And in the sense of, like, you know, we had, we brought in all these props, and we set dressed everything, and we had kids that were, you know, dead on the floor. We had fake blood and stuff, and so we would rip out light fixtures in the classrooms and stuff. And if they're listening right now, they're, you know, I'm sorry, but we did all these things, and then we had to put everything back at the end of the night and make it and clean up and everything. So it was a, it sounded like a good thing, and it really was, but at the same time, it was a lot of work.

Dave Bullis 48:29
Yeah, you know, that's amazing at the shooting real high school, because I couldn't even imagine the obstacles that you would have to go through.

Rocky Costanzo 48:36
I was sorry, interrupted. I was shocked myself, and that that the credit goes to Noel G because he he made that happen. I remember, we were in the school district. We didn't even go to the school. We had to go to the district. And I was with him in that room, and I was thinking, how are we going to, you know, how are we going to sell this thing? And the well, went right into it. It was it was hilarious. He said, This is what we're going to do. And there's this kid who's going to be walking down the hall and he's shooting kids, and we're going to have these squibs with blood splattering. And I'm looking at this guy across the way, and I'm like, well, we might as well just leave man, because there's no way we're getting this. And the guy just said, yeah, go ahead. So I was, I was shocked.

Dave Bullis 49:28
Yeah, that's, that's, you know, you know, amazing you could get that because, yeah, you know, that's the other thing too. When I was on my location list earlier, you know, some people have access to amazing locations, or able, you know, or like, no, G you know, like you're, you know, he's just good at selling the idea, you know, selling himself, selling the script, selling the project, you know. And some people are just, you know. Some people, some producers, have that gift of charisma and likeability, and they're just like, oh, everyone's like, Oh, you know what? You know that. Well, we're going work this guy, because they like him.

Rocky Costanzo 50:11
Yeah, and it goes back. You go back to, I've been pretty lucky on that side, to myself. I mean, my first you go back to return to innocence. We filmed in a real courthouse, because the second half of the movie is a court trial, and that's really the film. And we were in a real courtroom in Orange County here, where I'm from, and we, I think we lied on that one, and then we said we were film students or whatever, and that's the other thing. You got to do whatever you can to get your location. But we've been in hospitals, real hospitals, not sets. We've been pretty fortunate when it comes to locations. And I don't know if it's fortunate or lucky, but we've had, we've had some luck there.

Dave Bullis 51:02
I'm gonna say you're probably fortunate. You know, if it happens one time, you know you're you're lucky. If it happens like twice, it's because you have a good team. You know what? I mean, it's, that's what, that's what I've noticed. And, you know, just as you know, producing my own stuff, I've noticed that you have to go in there and sell yourself. I actually got a an amazing sound stage one time, just because I was at the right time, at a right place, at the bar, and I got to meet the right people. And I was like, Oh, here we go. So, you know, and everything sort of worked out well. And, you know, it's, it's amazing how those things sort of come together.

Rocky Costanzo 51:37
Yeah, it really is. Man, there's no nothing by design. Man, things you just, you just got to have the love, you got to have the passion. Gotta just want to make movies. And then sometimes there's a lot of, there's a lot of roadblocks. Man, you know, but every once in a while, there's something kind of cool that comes along.

Dave Bullis 51:59
Yeah, very true, very true, Rocky. You know, Rocky. You know, we were talking for about 45 minutes. Now, I don't want to eat up. I know you have to run. But you know, in closing, is there anything we didn't talk about that maybe you wanted to discuss, or anything you wanted to say, just to put a period at the end of this whole conversation?

Rocky Costanzo 52:19
Absolutely, again, with you know, the current film is ditch party, and we do have a screening coming up in New York on October 12. So I don't know you got listeners out there in the New York area, but love to have you guys come out and hang out with us. It's gonna be a fun night. It's at the Anthology Film Archives.

Dave Bullis 52:41
Is there a Facebook event page for it?

Rocky Costanzo 52:43
I believe it's we don't have one, but you can find us on ditch party and, you know Twitter, it's at pitch party movie, and I think we're on Instagram and everything. So all the information will be leaked out on there,

Dave Bullis 53:00
Cool and everyone, everyone listening. I will link to all that stuff in the show notes so you can follow ditch party and the again, you know. And I'll make sure to put some information about the premiere Rocky. Rocky Costanzo, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Rocky Costanzo 53:17
Thank you so much, man. It was a lot of fun,

Dave Bullis 53:21
My pleasure and Rocky, we're gonna find you out online. You're you know your personal you know your personal website or Twitter.

Rocky Costanzo 53:26
My production company is hourglass pictures, which is a films at hourglass. I don't know if it.com's or.net I think it's .net, actually. Or you can find me on Twitter at Rocky Costanzo, and Facebook and all that kind of stuff.

Dave Bullis 53:43
Yeah, Rocky, we just became Facebook friends.

Rocky Costanzo 53:45
We did, man, and I'm actually kind of jealous of you, man, because you're from Philly, which means that you are within striking distance of paths and Genos,

Dave Bullis 53:55
Well, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna come clean. Most Philadelphians don't eat a patch of hair.

Rocky Costanzo 54:03
I have that feeling, I was going to bring it up earlier, and I had that feeling it's kind of like us out here in California with the In and Out Burger we have our you know, that's like the big everyone has to come out here. And I've had actors that have flown in from like, New York or whatever, isn't it? When they just have to eat there? So what is the best spot then? So I know,

Dave Bullis 54:28
Well, there's actually a couple, and it depends what part of Phil you come from. There's ishka bibbles. There's my personal favorite, John's roast pork. There's also gyms on South Street. And then, like the other ones are kind of sort of up in the air depends, you know, but, but those are the main three that all Philadelphians sort of eat at any any one of those, you know, we will be good. And they're all different styles, by the way, of cheese steak. Those three

Rocky Costanzo 54:53
Very cool, man, very cool. Yeah, I told you, you learn something every dime every day.

Dave Bullis 54:58
That I'm not gonna start new podcast about cheesesteak, because I can educate everybody about the what Philadelphians actually eat. But no, but Yeah, honestly, I completely understand my in and out thing. I actually was asking a friend of mine who moved to LA about that, and he was like, God, he goes, Dave, I ate there, like twice. I eat at local places now,

Rocky Costanzo 55:19
Yeah, absolutely, there's, you know, there's, there's a lot better out there for you, but, but, yeah, I get it, you know, I get the appeal.