IFH 790: From Short to Feature: The Filmmaker’s Journey with Michael G. Kehoe

Alex Ferrari 0:24
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:24
You know me and my guest today, we go over all of this stuff, whether it be networking and professionalism, and we also go over one of my favorite topics, creativity. My this guest is also going to be at Geek fest Film Fest four. It's funny because Bill Ostrov, who was on the podcast only a few episodes ago, actually runs Geekfest Film Fest four. That's very hard to say, by the way. I keep saying it. I keep thinking I'm gonna mess it up. But no but all kidding aside, Bill actually runs that that this competition, and he runs the Film Fest as well. And Bill obviously for first glance films. He was on the podcast only a few episodes ago, and we talked all about everything. And it's funny because Mike, this guest this week, actually won the first glance Film Festival with his short Hush, and now he's gonna be on this film panel. So when you hear this podcast, which is going up on February 12, 2017, next week, next Saturday, he'll actually be at this panel. He'll be discussing indie film financing. He'll be discussing how you have to use creativity to make your film. And he is just a wealth of information, as you're about to hear. He also was able to turn a short film hush into a feature length film, which is going to be called the hatred, or Alice the hatred, as the poster says right now. And he even got the producers of the Halloween franchise on board with it, which is unbelievable. So we're gonna talk about all of his journey. We're gonna talk about all of these wonderful, wonderful things, about hustling, about all these things with guest Michael G. Kehoe so, you know, Mike, you grew up, you know, in Ithaca, and then you, you know, obviously, you now live in Los Angeles. So what was the journey that took you from Ithaca, out out to Los Angeles?

Michael G. Kehoe 3:45
Well, I was actually born and raised in in Brooklyn, New York. And my mother was a, was a theater director in the local theater there. And I always, I watched her work, and as she was, you know, involved, deeply involved in the theater there for the community. I went as a little kid, eight years old, watched her at the theater and directing actors and setting the plays up and the sets. And then when we moved up to Ithaca, I knew that this is what I wanted to do. So I started pursuing that I gotten. I played sports, so I wasn't one of these guys that was ostracized because he was either a nerd or a jock or a freak. I also played guitar, so I was in a band, and I got in the drama program. And while I was in the drama program, I knew that there was, there was a path, some way, to get into the film industry. I didn't know what a producer was. I didn't know, you know, I only knew that I had to go out and at some point, go to California, go to Los Angeles and and make movies. And what inspired, what really lit the fire was I directed and played McMurphy in a stage production. Of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest that myself and a couple of friends presented to the sports Booster Club to raise money for them. And not knowing what a producer does, I built the set, and then I got all of the the football players to play, the crazies in the in the play, and that brought in so many people to see their sons, you know, coming, coming in, this football star playing in this play. And it was a sold out weekend for three weekends, you know, the first time that that's ever happened in this small town of Trumansburg, New York. And that lit the fire. And I went on to go to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York, and then came home and decided this was it. I had to take the shot and go to California.

Dave Bullis 5:49
So now, before you moved out to California and LA, specifically, when you, before you moved out there, did you actually, you know, have, like, a place to stay and have a job already lined up?

Michael G. Kehoe 6:01
No, I had nothing. In fact, I came out with three other guys from school. We had made a plan to to, you know, to get out here, and I had already been bartending, so I knew that I could probably get a job once I got out here and in New York at the time, you know, you could, you could start bar thing at 18 in California, was 21 and I had been I was 21 at the time. So when I applied for a job, they said, how many years experience? And I told them, I since 18. They say, well, that's not I said, Well, that's what it is in New York. So I landed a job, and it was at this little place in Studio City called steep Geez. And ironically, before I let when I while I was there, there was a friend of mine that I went to school with. His name was Jimmy Hayden, and Jimmy Hayden was an actor, and I had another friend named Michael Kuchel. And we were, we were very good friends, and I was bartending in Manhattan at a place called eileens, and one night, when we had closed up, the three of us made a pact and said, We're gonna, you know, when one of us gets in there, we're gonna pull the other two in. So I had, you know, left closed up shop, so to speak with my life in New York and moved to California, and then I spoke to Jimmy on the phone about a year or so later, and Jimmy had told me that Michael Kuchel had died, and it was, he was depressed, and it was, you know, it was a long story for that. And then Jimmy had said to me, Listen, I'm, you know, things are going well for me. I did a movie with Robert De Niro called Once upon a time in America, and I'm going to be on Broadway with Al Pacino in a play called American Buffalo. And I said, I got to see he says, Well, we're going to be in certain in San Francisco, so you got to come. We'll go out to dinner. I said, Great. Well, about two months later, Jimmy was dead of a heroin overdose because the character Bobby in the play was an addict. And I'm not quite sure exactly how all of this had happened or how it went down. But Jimmy was not really a drug addict, you know, and he was an incredible actor at the time. In fact, Mickey Rourke dedicated his performance in Pope Greenwich Village to Jimmy Aiden. So that relationship between myself and those two young actors really set an idea up for me that I had had about, you know, creating film. And I made my first short film called second dance, and it was, it was basically about myself and and my relationship with two guys. And I was depressed when I came out here, not working, not knowing what was going on. And I ended up writing that short film that was about a guy who was at the end of his rope, and two of his friends come back as angels to visit him, and he's about to commit suicide, and they convince him it's not the thing to do. Well, that went on to I take its journey, and ended up at Sundance.

Dave Bullis 9:00
You know, that's absolutely incredible. You know, just to, you know, take a step back for a second. You know, when you said you have that pact with friends, you know, if one person makes it, you know, the other, the other, the person makes, is gonna help the other ones up. You know, that's, that's actually something that, you know, I've heard of before, too, where, you know, friends, or even if they went to the same college or grew up in the same neighborhood, and, you know, they sort of say, Listen, if you know, one of us makes it, we're going to do our best to help the others, whether that be through contacts or introductions or, you know, what have you. And we're also going to tell you what is actually on the front line of things. And you know, like, I had a friend of mine who was a screenwriter, and he, you know, he made it, and he always was telling his friends, you know, this is how your scripts got to look. This is what it's got to be. Because you got to get one shot with this through an introduction, and you have to make it as good as possible.

Michael G. Kehoe 9:50
Yeah, you know the to me, what, what? What has to happen in your life is whatever relationships that you. Have, and whatever bond you have, you know it's very important to continue that especially if it's going to be in a certain business, whether you're in whether you're in a travel business, whether you're in the restaurant business or anything like that. Your friends can actually help you. They can actually hurt you as well, depending on you know, how your friends are with you and how that bond is. And I think that having that support, sometimes of a creative friend that's along with you can elevate your career as well as their own. And I truly believe that giving back, you know, is also part of it. And I, you know, I cherish the relationship that I had, as though, you know, but it was short lived, because it was only a couple of years in New York, and then when we came out, you know, I didn't get to see them, and when I heard about it, what had happened. It was it kind of, it was devastating, you know, knowing that we had this plan to go out and do it, but you can't, you know, you can't give up, and they wouldn't want you to give up. So I just, you know, I continued the journey.

Dave Bullis 11:15
So, I mean, and again, you know, when you were talking about how both of your friends had passed, you know, and the one had died from from a heroin overdose. I mean, that that is just unbelievable out of left field, because, like you just said, you know, he, you know, he wasn't, you know, into that, or never had, had no, been a known drug addict or anything like that. And, you know, it's just that's, you know, that's just one of those things at a left field. And, you know, remind, you know, it just reminds me of a few things that that have happened to other guests as well. You know, where they were, something, you know, a friend of theirs has just missed, you know, just died, and she's been clear out of the blue, like you see him one day, and, you know, it's almost like they're gone the next,

Michael G. Kehoe 11:56
Yeah, you know, look at the I guess. You know, the 70s and 80s were really a time when people were exploring and testing things out in their lives. And since this character, I can't speculate. I can all you know, I can only try to try to put things together in a sense where possibly this happened. But I don't want to, you know, say for sure. But you know, when you play a character that's a heroin addict. You know, most actors won't do the heroin. Some people may just, you know, may test it out and and it becomes their demise. And Jimmy was a great guy, you know, he, he was a very talented actor. And I don't, you know, I don't know how it went down, or who he was with, or the crowd. You know, there's, articles about it, and people wrote things about who he was with and how it was influenced. But I think what you have to celebrate is their lives and the work that they did, which was far more important than that. You know, that downward spiral that caused it, and Jimmy's work speaks for itself. You know, it's, it was a remarkable career, you know, short lived, much like James Dean, you know. And in fact, in fact, they compared him to James Dean during that time. So, you know, it because of that relationship, it inspired me to do that film that really opened the door for me and go and move on. So I believe that they were, you know, they were part of it,

Dave Bullis 13:22
Yeah. And you use this as inspiration to, you know, to write and direct. And you were actually able to produce second dance, you know, which was a short film of yours. And, you know, you also got one of my favorite character actors, by the way, in the film, Carmine Felipe, or Philippe. Yeah, Carmine was every move, every move that Carmine is in, he is just, you're you're just drawn to him. He's like a magnet. He it could because his performance I and every move I've ever seen of him, no matter whether it's in Wayne's World or Beetlejuice. He's era, you know, or even in, you know, in your film secondhand, he's just always you're just drawn to his performances.

Michael G. Kehoe 14:03
Well, you know, the funny story about about him was, I was working on another movie in production, and I, while I was on set on location, who's walking down the street in Hollywood is Carmen and and I knew that I wanted to have someone in this short film. Usually, what people try to do is they try to get one name, a big name, or something like that, to do a cameo, to do in your film. And I didn't want, I didn't want it to be, you know, to get Al Pacino, you know, in in the in the short film. I would have loved to have done that, but I didn't see, you know, a spot for that, to put it in there and take your attention away. So when I talked to Carmen, Carmen is completely different, or was, you know, he passed away, but he was completely different from the characters that he played on on film. And we had a great discussion about acting, about life in Hollywood, and his journey as well. And I. Told him the story that I just told you about the, you know, the process in which second dance was made. And he, he, he was drawn to the story, and he wanted to be a part of it. In fact, after he read the script, he had said to me, I love it. I want to do this no matter what, I'll be there. Would you mind if I, kind of, like, you know, went off the script for a little bit, and I said, look, as long as you stay on the path of where we're heading to, you know, your dialog will be golden for me. Just make sure that we stay within those confines of the story. And you know, when you do a short film, especially when you're shooting on film, because I shot that on 35 millimeter, you don't have a lot of luxury to do multiple takes. And I think we did maybe, maybe two or three takes at the most of him. And I let him go, and I just said, go, go with it. And, you know, he lit up the screen. He looks great on film. He's engaged with the characters, and he communicates extremely well. And it's just he was a pleasure to work with,

Dave Bullis 16:08
You know. And we talked to about that, you know, on the podcast too, is, you know, the difference between 35 millimeter and digital, you know, because, you know, the filmmakers who who've shot on both, they've, you know, that's the one thing they like about digital is that they can do, you know, they can't afford that luxury of multiple takes, because obviously, you know, you know, it doesn't cost anything to, you know, put another file on an SD card or what have you. But again, when you're working for 35 millimeter, there's there, you know, every take, literally, literally does cost you money,

Michael G. Kehoe 16:39
Without a doubt. In fact, you know, I cut the movie on a movie Ola. And, you know, people don't realize, you know, the film thinkers of today what even what a movie Ola is, unless they Googled it. And you know, you have this tiny little screen that's like a three by five screen, and you put the film and the sound through it, and that's what you're watching to get your final product out there. And it's a big risk, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, it's just a chance that you're taking, you know? And we didn't have, we also didn't have video playback. So I stood by camera and watched the performances there, hoping that my, my DP, my cinematographer, would capture the essence of what was in the script and and he did, you know, we, we literally, I love films that are dark in the sense of their lighting, and doesn't, doesn't look flat, and just does it, just exposes, just enough To bring you into that world. And Chris Mosley, who's my DP, we had long discussions prior to that about the this process and knowing that we had to capture things, I didn't care. I wanted to give it like a film noir look with color and and go through that process. But by by doing it on 35 millimeter, I was limited to the number of takes the time. And, you know, poverty breeds creativity, so we did what we could to get the best performances on screen, and everybody, from the background to, you know, the main actor, they all pulled it off. And the proof is in the pudding for the film itself.

Dave Bullis 18:21
Yeah, and you mentioned something to that is thought provoking, to that I've mentioned other guests, and we've talked about is the, the relationship between the director and the DP, you know, like today, you know, people usually get monitors, you know, and they watch, they can see the exact framing, you know. But, but it used to be you had to trust your director cinematography, with with everything, because, you know, you didn't get it. You didn't see what they were actually getting. If you know what I mean, they were, they were actually, you had to trust them, that they were getting this correct shot, that everything looked good. And you and directors would stand, you know, watch the actual, actual character performance, the actual, the actual actor performances, right then and there, but, and not on a monitor and, you know, and now nowadays, so that's, that's what most directors do, is that they have the actual monitor now to see the performances as they're happening.

Michael G. Kehoe 19:09
Well, you know, you're absolutely right. And what I, what I try to do, and what I've done on my films, is communicate with my DP and allow him to paint the picture. I give him a map of what we want to do. I try to frame certain things, and he lights and takes it from there, when I did hush the short film, my DP, John Connor and I, we worked for four and a half months beforehand and had everything mapped out. I did the storyboards. We looked at camera angles. I had purchased something on my iPhone, which was called Filmic Pro, to take video and snapshots of the set and the actors in position. So we had some sort of framing for that. But I did discuss with John, which we were, we were pulling our hair out, and I said, Look, I don't want, I don't want any lights in this movie. It's at night. It's in indoors and interior shots. I said, I don't want any lights at all. I just want a flashlight. And John, you know, said, How are we going to do this? We shot with the Alexa, but we came up with a plan and an idea that was sparked in the preparation. And you use these little tricks to create the scene, and it worked perfectly. And if it wasn't for that prep time and the discussions and the relationship between myself and the DP, I don't think we would have had what we had. And most filmmakers today, they just want to make a movie, to get out there and make a movie. But if you don't have, if you don't have a good dp and great sound, then you're traveling down a road where you're just like everybody else, and you're just going to shoot on an iPhone or something, and it looks flat and there's no style to it. But when you create something and you have a great relationship with your DP, who shows a style, it elevates you as a filmmaker. And I think that's one of the things that's very, very important to a lot of filmmakers, or for a lot of film filmmakers. And you see it in a lot of the in the horror genre, where the lighting and and the composition is just done so well in most of those films. And I think a lot of the successful film, like filmmakers today started out in in horror.

Dave Bullis 21:46
Yeah, that is very true. And you know, that's something that I've even talked about at the beginning of the podcast when I had on David huel from a horror movie school. You know, a lot of successful filmmakers actually did start in horror. And you know, like, like Sam Raimi always is the first one that comes to mind, you know, because Sam Raimi made Evil Dead, and then Evil Dead too. And then, you know, he sure, years later, he went on to make spider man. And, you know, now, you know, he gets those big Bucha, big blockbuster movies,

Michael G. Kehoe 22:15
Right! Well, I mean, James Cameron made Piranha the Spawning, yeah, you know, there's just, I mean, you look at the people who who started their career out, especially with Roger Corman, and you know, it was Francis Coppola, there was Martin Scorsese. And all of these great filmmakers of today actually gave got their start through that. You know, that path that Corman set out to create. So, you know, I got to give a lot of credit to to filmmakers and producers like Roger Corman, because he opened the door for people they didn't have a lot of money to make those movies. But I think that goes back to saying that poverty breeds creativity. And when you're a filmmaker, your creative side, and your those creative juices have to flow, and they have to flow with your VP as well as your actors. And when it all comes together, you know, this is, this is what filmmaking is.

Dave Bullis 23:12
Yeah, I love that saying, by the way, poverty breeds creativity. I like that, Mike. I might have to steal that, by the way, it's yours, yeah. So, So, Mike, after you made second dance, you know, you made some other films, obviously, between second dance and hush, you know, hush I want to get to, but I want to talk, you know, obviously, about those films in between. You know, after you film second dance, did you, did you take, did you take it to any film festivals, and where was that? How, you know, did you parlay that into your next film, which was dominion?

Michael G. Kehoe 23:46
Well, what I did was I submitted the I submitted second dance to Sundance, and I didn't make it because it was, it was too late. So I talked to a friend of mine who's a producer, and he said, Look, let's get a screening. We'll get a screening. We'll get a room over at Tristar, over where Sony is now, and we'll screen that, and then that, you know, you'll bring some people in. Look, there may be only 30 people that show up, and we'll see what happens. So I said, Okay, and now, you know, you you have a 35 millimeter can that you walking around with. This is your child. So I brought that to Sony, and I put word out. You know, I had been in the movie business, in working in production which my brother got me. I got my brother into it, and then he got me on the in, on that side, and we got a 99 seat theater, and I waited outside, and 500 people showed up, including Keanu Reeves, and because I had worked with him on speed. And so now you know, what do I do? And I had to show the film five times because there's only 99 seats. And when it was over, the projectionist came to me and she said, and it was a woman, and for the life of me, I can't remember what her name was, but. I'm actually searching now to find out, because we're about to screen the next movie at Sony. And she said to me, Michael, Have you submitted this to Sundance? And I said, Yeah, but it was too late. I didn't make it. She said, Well, why don't you leave it here, you know, for this weekend, because I the gentleman that is part of the shorts program. He's in charge of the shorts program. He would be here, and I should show this to him. This deserves to be in there. So I thought, Oh, my God, I'm leaving my child here, you know, at Sony, you know, over the week for the week, and I trusted her, and came home, you know, and about four or five days later, I get a truck comes up with the can film can, drops it off for me to sign, and I figure it's over. I don't hear anything. Well, about two and a half weeks later, I get a letter in the mail says Sundance. And I thought right away, this is a rejection letter, just thanks for sending it in, but no thanks, and I'm sitting on the front porch with my dog, and I open the letter, and sure enough, it says, on behalf of Robert Redford and the Sundance Film Festival, you have made it to the festival. So I jumped for joy for that, and went to went to the festival. It was, I think it was at the same time that Hoop Dreams was playing at that time, and Matthew Modine was in a short film, and Winona Ryder, and so we were all interviewed by Entertainment Tonight for that. And I got a, I got approached by another company. I had written a an action, a thriller, that I just wanted to sell. I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to, I didn't want to direct it. And they approached me and they said, you know, this would be great if you will do this, if you want to direct it. And the producer who helped me with the short ended up producing that, and we went on to do that feature. The funny story was, I had been working in production, you know, at a craft service company, and I was doing a movie called Airheads with Adam Sandler and, you know, Steve Buscemi, and Ernie Hudson was in it. And Ernie Hudson would get a couple of scripts, you know, during the course of the week. And what I did was I took my script and I got the PA who was bringing it to his his trailer, and I sneaked it in there. And about two days later, Ernie called me to his trailer and said, Did you write this? I said, Yeah. He says, I want to do it. And I said, Oh my God, it's great. So I prism at prism entertainment at the time, we made a deal together. It was a $1.3 million movie, and Ernie was in and we did a promo shots with Ernie space on the poster, and got everything together. And then a couple of months, about a month or so before shooting, Ernie came to me and said, Mike, I feel bad, but Kathleen Kennedy called me and I'm going to do this movie called Congo. And he says, I won't be able to do that movie. And I, you know, of course, I was disappointed, but you never want to say, Screw you. You're supposed to do my movie that you don't survive in this industry by being that way. And I was so supportive of it. And I said, Look, go do that. You're gonna, you're gonna do a lot better than doing this movie for this little movie for me. But we ended up getting Brad Johnson and and also, I don't know if you, if you've seen the movie Brian James, who was in Blade Runner, and 48 hours, and a number of other actors, and in Richard, really, who plays a character role in that. And then that went on was, I think it was on. It was on cable for a while, and then I went off to do a couple of other shorts that won some awards, and then I did another feature called The Art of a bullet with Lafe Garret. And, you know, I people were laughing at me of casting lace Garrett in this in the lead role, but I have to tell you, Lafe did such an amazing job in this role. It was a dark, kind of a film noir, detective thriller about a home invasion. And he was, he was spot on. And then, of course, after the film, he got in a little bit of trouble, and things kind of went sour for a while for him. But it really worked, you know, it worked out for the film itself. And, you know, we got a small distribution deal overseas for that, and then I went on and started writing again, and that's when I came up with this idea of finally doing a horror movie.

Dave Bullis 29:35
So, and just to stop and ask a question right here, don't you think it's important for for pretty much everybody, whether you're an actor or director, to be writing your own scripts, just just to even if, whether you're going to shoot yourself, or even just to hand it to somebody else and maybe say, Hey, would you want to make this?

Michael G. Kehoe 30:06
You know? I think, I don't think any, you know, it's, it's a great question, because there's some incredible writers out there, independent writers that haven't made it yet, and they have some remarkable scripts, and they don't want to be a director, they don't even want to be a producer, they just want to write. And so yes, I found it that in the beginning stages of my career, when I first moved out here, I bought myself a computer, and I, you know, not even knowing how to use it, the only thing I wanted to learn was a screenwriting program, and I had the first, you know, version of Final Draft when it came out and started writing that, because a writer writes, and that's what I was trying to do, as well as make my film. But I think you know, if you as a filmmaker starting out, it might be, it might be wise to either write something, if you're able to write something that is is readable and enjoyable for the for the reader and the audience, but you may find a writer that's out there that has written something that that you may not be able to pull off in your own writing skills. I mean, I'm reading some scripts now that I would never be able to do, and I love and I, you know, I'm working on trying to to acquire them, but you know that it's a great question to ask. It's, I just think it's the individual of who wants to create something and, and maybe sit with a writer and create something or, or do it yourself, like you said. I don't think there's any specific answer for that.

Dave Bullis 31:43
Okay, you know. And it's always something when I always ask everybody, because, you know, some people are always, some people got very frustrated about, you know, not having options. Some people wanted their make their own opportunities. There's, there's always a couple of key words, just one single word that I always find on the podcast, Mike, one of them is creativity. Another one is opportunities. And I always sort of let you know we can draw so much from them, because we're all just sort, you know, we're always boiling things down to sort of that, that one word that we can sort of use. And you know, again, I like what your definition of creativity? You know poverty. You know poverty. Poverty creates creativity and and just, you know, self, that's why I wanted to ask that question. But, you know, so as we continue on with, you know, with, with your whole journey, you know, again, you wanted to write a horror movie. So where did sort of the impetus to of the of the idea, this sort of seed idea, where did that come from for the concept of the horror movie?

Michael G. Kehoe 32:44
Well, yeah, early on, I was inspired by thrillers, Hitchcock things like that. I'm not very much into slasher films, blood and guts, torture, or anything like that. And looking at the the horror genre. The horror genre, to me, is like 31 flavors. You know, you have people that like vampire movies, you have people that like zombie movies. You have like people like paranormal movies or slasher movies. But when you make, when you make a horror thriller, you get the attention of all those across the board. And that's what I wanted. I didn't want to make a specific film for one specific audience, so I started thinking about things. And I have twin boys, and when they were very, very young, they used to say, before they went to bed, they used to say, Daddy, check under the bed. Daddy, check the closet, Daddy, you know. And I said, there's nothing there, there's nothing there. And that inspired me to create this story of Hush. And so when I got into it, I wanted to, I started writing the feature, which originally was called the hatred, and I took a scene out of that, which is the scene, you know, the hush, which we shot, and I decided that I was going to go out and try to try to shoot this as a short film. Because years ago, in the 80s and 90s, a lot of the stunt men that I knew were creating sizzle reels, or, you know, a reel that would expose it, would actually promote the film itself. So kind of like a teaser and, and I thought, you know, I'm going to do this one scene, if there's attention for this, it may give me a shot at at the feature. And I wanted to make more of a of an anticipation of death, rather than death itself. Because, you know, the anticipation of death is worse than death itself. And if you're watching something and it's what's behind the door, it's the journey from the moment you hear the sound till you get to the door. That journey in between is the journey that raises the hair on the back of your neck, and that's what I wanted. So I have a very close friend of mine that we were. We were started out our careers very early. His name is Tommy Harper, or is Tommy Harper, and we decided that we were going to, you know, try to develop this. Now, Tommy Harper started out as an ad and then worked his way up in producing. And at the time, Tommy had said to me, you know, do this, but you really need a DP that understands horror. So I told him about John Connor. John Connor and I had been friends for many, many years. We worked on a couple of films with Tony Scott, and then we started talking. This was 18 years ago. We talked about making a movie together, and Tommy Harper said, no, no, no, you know he's that. He doesn't know horror. You look at these guys. So Tommy went off told me that he was not going to be available because he was leaving town to go work, to go produce a movie. And that movie, that little movie, was Star Wars, The Force Awakens in London. So I said, Okay, well, I don't want to stop you from working on this little movie, to go work on that little movie. So Tommy went off to do that, and while the cats away, the mice will play. And I got John Connor to shoot Hush. And when in the in the process of writing it and doing it, as I said to you, before we created this, this formula that we wanted to make for this movie. And when we finished it, I had my editors, a guy named Michael Trent, who's an incredible editor, worked with Steven Spielberg for many years, and we have our kids went to school together, so we had a relationship there, and I didn't expect him to want to be a part of it. He read the script and he said, I'll do it. I'll do it. And it was only five minutes. But the the footage that I gave him, I got to give him credit for the for the entire cut, because the only thing we did was extend one little piece of the section of the movie. Other than that, what you see is Michael Trent's cut. And then, you know, we started the journey with the short film on the festival route. And I spent, you know, filming. Filmmakers have to understand, you have to spend money to make money, and you've got to get it out there, and you got to get it out to the right festivals. You know, you want, want to go to festivals that have screenings. You want to go to festivals that are probably a few years in the making, because there are, you know, there's some people that are sitting home that are, you know, typing out little certificates and emailing them to you saying you won this festival, when it really doesn't mean anything. So you want the, you want the acknowledgement from the audience as well as a respected Film Festival,

Dave Bullis 37:39
Yeah, you know, that's also something that I've talked about too with other people in this podcast has been, you know what festivals are? Can actually do something for you as well as you, you know you're giving a submission to them. Are these festivals valid? You know, if you because I went way back when I had a script running consultant on who, uh, who actually said he had a client and she and she ended up winning like, 15 different screenwriting competitions. But the downside was Mike, none of them were, like the big name festival competitions. They were, you know, the smaller competitions. And he said, literally, the only way she got more work after winning all these competitions was that she had a deep network, and that one person got her into somewhere else to do it, to do a writing gig. But, you know, and it just goes back to, we were talking about networking, and, you know, things like that. But, you know, just to talk about, you know, again, with, with Hush, you know, making sure, you know, the audience responded to it, as well as, as the as the festival circuit, you know, when, when were you? When did you, sort of, you know, know that you had, you know, I guess the term would be hit, you know, when did you know that you had something here that, you know, you sort of got Lightning in a Bottle with this?

Michael G. Kehoe 38:56
Well, another great question, you know, I'm extremely hard on myself. It's hard for me to sit in the theater to watch the movie that I made, because, you know, I want to please the audience and I want to go out, and sometimes you never know. You know what's going to happen, and their reaction, if it's positive or negative. So when we finished it, I showed it to a few people, and the reaction from them jumping out of their seat, I knew that there was something there. I didn't know if they were being honest with me, but as I started testing it with people, I got the same feeling. So I said, Okay, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna put it out into this festival. And the very first festival, we won eight awards. And I thought, Okay, well, maybe this is maybe this is it. And we started applying. I spent a lot of money, you know, putting it out to to film festivals. We got on Film Freeway, and we started hitting it. And I you know, could, we couldn't get into some of the bigger festivals at the time because of the timing of it, but as it started going out, and like you had said, which I think is so important, you have to build a network, a following that you get in there. And since we now have social network, you can actually go out and let people know what you're doing, and in doing that, people will start to gain a little interest and see what you're doing. And as you're starting to hit that market and festival after Festival, and you're announcing it, because you have to be your own publicist, people will be interested in say, Well, I want to see this film now, because it's won 10, 1214, awards, and not until we were selected at the Catalina Film Festival, and my good friend Ivana cadaver said to me, I couldn't make it to the festival because I was actually going to be working on this other movie. And I said, I'm not going to be able to make it. She said, I'll go in place. And then she called me and said to me, do you know that Wes Craven actually chose your film? It was before he died. It was one of the films that he said, This deserves to be in the festival. Deserves to be a feature. So I think F Gary Gray made the announcement, or whatever at the at the festival itself, and Robert England was there, and we won an award there, the Wes Craven Award, which was, you know, a great feather in my cap for the movie. And as that went out, and I built this following on social network. It was Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. You know, people started seeing what was happening, and I put it out and gave it to a producer by the name of Malika cot. And Malik is responsible for the Halloween franchise. And, you know, I was, I had sent it over to Blumhouse. I sent it over to a couple of other places, Sony and and some other places. And Malik called me and said, not been sent a lot of scripts. I really like this. I want to sit down with you with this, and Malik's kind of a hands on producer, and we sat and we developed the story and and continued with the events that occur within the script and the characters and taking some things out, putting other things in. And we got financed, and we were set to go into production. It took a while from the time that the I think the film was the short film went out in the latter part of 2014 and we shot the film in 2000 it was 2016 when we shot, I think was 2016 I can't remember what happened yesterday, but, you know, we Yeah, it was, it was a, it was a spring of 2016 and that what happened there once again, this, this comes into mind about poverty, breeding, breeding, creativity. You know, we had a limited time to shoot. I think we had, like, a an 18 or 19 day schedule, but we were just under a million dollars, and wasn't a lot of money, you know, for what we wanted to do, because we have big expectations of trying to put the best up on screen, and we are hit by the union, so we had to go union. So we lost a number of days for that, and it's a good amount of money from the budget. So I didn't want you know losing two days is a lot. And we were like, we were shooting, I think, 35 setups a day, which is, you know, remarkable for a feature. And I got to give credit to my crew and my cast, because they were with me. And I remember working with Tony Scott, and Tony Scott getting up there and lifting up, you know, boxes and moving and getting the team to move, go, go, go. And that's what they did. And so we went, we were prepared in one seat in one part of this house. We shot in and made people aware of what was going on so we would be able to go from there to the next spot. And Malik did a great job of, you know, guiding it through and creating a world for us to, you know, to have an opportunity. We had a great line producer by the name of Sean gory and, of course, my, my DP, John Connor, who is so is so incredibly talented. In fact, John went on to shoot meet the blacks and a couple of other movies. Taylor walk in the movie that I I can't remember the name of it right now, but John got signed by an agency right away after that. And we, you know, it was a, let me just say this, it was a battle for me, because you, you have one idea and one path that you think that this film is going to go on, and then, of course, it takes a different path, because. Because of the roadblocks that you have. And I look at the film now, and is it the movie they originally wanted to go out and make? Probably not, but however, now it's, it's, it's a movie that I'm very proud of. It's kind of a, it's an homage to the 70s and 80s with no blood, no guts, no sex, no stupid women, and we have 95% female cast. So I think we, I think we ended up hitting the mark on what we did.

Dave Bullis 45:33
But by the way, I wanted to mention Mike. We actually have a mutual friend who actually worked on Alice the hatred and who did the makeup effects? The makeup effects sculptor, and that was Hiroshi kitagi. And Hiroshi has actually been on this podcast as well.

Michael G. Kehoe 45:49
Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, right, yeah, exactly. I mean, this is, this is a great story as well. I was working in on a movie called Last Samurai. I was in New Zealand, a Tom Cruise movie, and we had gone to Japan, and we would sick, I think, five months in into New Zealand. And the the transportation coordinator, whose name is Vic Kucha, his daughter was his name. Her name is Austin Kucha. I think she was like, 10 or 11 years old at the time, and I was, you know, we were prepping, so I was driving out on one of those Honda you know, I don't forget what they call them. They're like the four wheel go karts, so to speak, but they're motorized, you know. And I'm driving her out, and she's sitting with me, and I just said to her, I said, What do you want to do when you get older. She said, I want to do special effects makeup. And I said, really? And she said, yeah. I said, Well, if I ever make a movie, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring you on there. Now, never thinking anything would happen years later. I'm doing Hush. And Austin has created blood drugs. I don't know if you know what that is, but when you watch CSI, and you see an actor dead laying on the floor in a pool of blood, they have this rug that they peel up and they lay down, so you don't ruin the floor in a location. And they could put splatters on the wall, which is which peels off and goes back on, so you never have to worry about, you know, continuity. You know somebody stepping into it, because it doesn't change. And Austin did the makeup on Hush, and ended up coming on the feature as well. So this is another thing of how small this little world of Hollywood is, you know, and it's, to me, it's a great little world. And you know, when I hear people say, Oh, that's so Hollywood. That person so Hollywood. To me, there's there's Broadway, there's off Broadway, and there's Off, off Broadway. In Hollywood, there's Hollywood, there's off Hollywood, or Hollywood, independent Hollywood, and then desperate Hollywood. And desperate Hollywood are those people that talk about doing it, never do it, and say they have money, but never, no, never do that. I, believe me, I've been dealing with that, in fact, right now on an independent movie, people who are saying, yeah, they have money and they know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody, and to me, that's desperate. So, you know, give credit to the people that are actually doing things and making it happen. There's so many wonderful filmmakers out here that I always try to support at festivals and try to see what they they're doing. And always, you know, have whatever advice that I could give from my my journey and my adventure. I always try to help others with it.

Dave Bullis 48:35
Yeah, I like that term desperate Hollywood Mike, because, you know, I've encountered that myself. And whenever I'm reading a, you know, like someone's autobiography, they've had that as well. Particularly the first person that comes to mind is Quentin Tarantino, when he was trying to get money for Natural Born Killers, which was actually one of his first screenplays, he actually met these two bodybuilders who were trying to is, they said, Well, we have all this money and this and that. And they, they didn't have anything when he, when he wrote Reservoir Dogs, somebody else tried it said, oh, you know, I can get you the money, but you got to make my girlfriend has to be Mr. Blonde, the Mr. Blonde character, yes, put it in, put it as a woman and, and, you know, he, you know, all these people were just blowing smoke, you know, they didn't have any money at all.

Michael G. Kehoe 49:19
Yeah, that's, you know, that's what filmmakers run into. There's always somebody that says, I gotta have my girlfriend in there, and we can't tell my wife, you know, or I've got to do this, and I've got to do that, and you've got to do this for me. But, you know, I think every filmmaker needs to stay on track, you know, for for what they want, because ultimately, it's, their ass that's on the line, and no one else's. And if you end up when the term's selling out, it's selling out to say, well, I'm going to do this just to get money. You know, don't go out to make a movie, just to make a movie. I mean, you wouldn't go out and have a child, just have a child. You know, you want to make sure that you can support that child and nurture it and grow just like you would with a cell. And so I think that that's the attitude that a lot of successful filmmakers have, is to create a world and and try to get it not only, you know, from the page to the camera to the audience, and you know, it's, it's remarkable. Sometimes I I hear these people that are just going out, and I see some of the films that they shoot, it looks flat. The acting is not that great, and and where they put it out, it goes nowhere. And they say, Well, I'm gonna have a life on YouTube. Well, that's great. But if you really, if you want to be a filmmaker, you know, put your heart and soul into it and surround yourself. To me, this is the most important thing, surround yourself with people who are smarter than you, because you don't. It's good to know a little bit about everything, but get somebody that can actually do the job of you know, your sound guy, for instance, Tom Curley, who won the Academy Award for whiplash, was my my sound mixer on the movie that we did the hatred. And Tom is from upstate New York, so we had that in common. I had worked with Jeff Wexler, whose dad is Haskell Wexler, when I did a little short film that won it at Comic Con years ago. And to me, you really have to have great sound for a film. People will say, Well, you know, we'll do it in post. I hate that line that we're going to fix it in post. If you don't fix it on the set, you're gonna have problems later on, you know. So you put your heart and soul in it, and you you get people that are are smarter than you, because that's going to pave the road to success for people who dedicate their their heart and mind to it.

Dave Bullis 51:48
Yeah, I also don't like that whole attitude of, you know, let's just fix it in post. You know, I think you know when you're almost like when, if you've were to interview a lot of student filmmakers, I think a lot of them have that attitude, and unfortunately, some people, so some people don't lose that attitude. And I've been on film sets too, where, I mean, hell, I'll admit it, Mike, I've been guilty of that too. And you know, that was a few years ago, obviously. But you know when I now, you know when I'm whenever I'm, you know, it's been a while since I've been on set. I shouldn't have mentioned that, but, but it's been a while I've been on set, you know, as I run a film podcast, but, uh, basically, you know, I realize now you have to do it right, you know, right when you're right, then and there. And, you know, sometimes you need a little more time, but it always sort of comes down to that production management triangle, right? You can have it good, you could have it you could, you know, there's, there's the quality, the speed and the time. So you can have it fast and slow, but it'll be good, you know, all that stuff, and you got to sort of all, sort of manage that, where you're on set,

Michael G. Kehoe 52:51
Well, you know? And that's why, that's why preparing is the, you know, is 90% of the job, because then everything runs smoothly after that. And have in mind that you are going to, you are going to come into, you know, some changes. You know, filmmakers don't some filmmakers, early on don't realize that. You know, when you're recording sound on set, you also have to have room tone that you're going to record so you can use later on, in case there's, you know, there's a change in dialog, or you have to shoot something later on, getting that rune tone puts you back into that that that set and and if you watch a movie that has crappy sound, it takes you out of it. If you watch a movie that has an okay picture and great sound, you know, you're you're you're still engaged, you're still involved. But sound is so important and so engaging for the film that most people don't they don't consider it to be that important, and it's something that they say they'll always fix later. And I disagree with it wholeheartedly.

Dave Bullis 53:54
Yeah. Same here. Same here, Mike, and it is very important, something I learned from Kelly Baker. Kelly's been on the show as well, and he's the sound mixer for Gus Van Zant. And yeah, he and he's always mentioned, you know, about the importance of sound and everything, and he really is the person that really sort of drove that home for me. And you know, even when I watch movies now, I'm always watching, I know, I'm always listening now for how the sound compliments the the video part, the actual, you know, what will be, what we can see,

Michael G. Kehoe 54:24
Yeah, without, without a doubt. I mean, it's almost a character in in the film itself. You know, I wrote, and Tommy Harper is responsible for making this deal. I wrote a sci fi film. It's kind of like, in the same vein as alien and the thing, and I wanted to set it in in in Iceland, on this air force base that my father was actually stationed at in the 50s. And I, you know, presented to them, and they picked it up, and they flew me out there for a. Scouting and which we're going to shoot this thing in this this fall, late fall, in Iceland. And one of the things when I went up, one of the experiences that I had when I was on the location, we went inside the old base that's been shut down since 2000 and I believe 2008 it was an American base. And they had, you know, in Iceland, their power is 220 and ours is 110 so there was 110 but they had pulled everything out. And so this, this particular facility, had these walls that were like, oh, probably a foot thick. And when I went in there, it hadn't been touched since 2000 I think 11, and there was no dust on the on the walls or anything, but the sound in there. I started. I started smiling, because every little thing, if you dropped a coin, it had this incredible sound, because everything was completely silent because of the thickness of the walls. And I just knew that this was going to be something that came, you know, along with the film, that was going to elevate the film. So having a great sound man and having a great location for that sound is just equally as important, you know, for the success in the film. You don't want to shoot near an airport and have a, you know, have a dramatic scene that's an emotional scene with two people talking. So you just have to, you know, you have to really pull it off in such a way and do that research. So I look forward to, you know, to creating that movie as well. It's titled kebabic with a company called True North that is, is in Iceland, Kristen Thornton, who's the producer for that? They actually started out as a production facility company, and they they did Walter meetings, they did Star Wars, they did some of the, some of the Star Treks. And there's a great story of how that came about with that meeting, because Tommy Harper introduced me to Kristen Adam, had a meeting, and Tally had asked me if I had any I, you know, scripts that were kind of sci fi. And I said I had an idea, but I didn't have a script. And when we got to the meeting, Tommy said, Mike's got a great script. So sci fi tell him. And I just sat there, you know, stuttering, and then pitched the story. He said, You got to give this to me so I can read it on the way home. And I said, Well, I just have to finish the last 25 pages. And then went home and wrote the thing in a month and sent it out to him. And that's how that, that whole deal, started. So it's been a good journey so far.

Dave Bullis 57:36
Yeah, man, that's really cool. Mike, I was actually going to ask you, you know, I know the hatred it has, you know, completed has been released yet. But I was going to ask you, you know, what's your, what's the next project coming up and, but so you read my mind on that one Mike?

Michael G. Kehoe 57:50
Well, that's, that's actually not my next, that's not my next one. I mean, I wrote, I just finished writing, you know, as soon as, as soon as, as soon as I finished the hatred, you know, we went into post. I was, you know, running out of money, and I got a phone call from a good friend of mine who said, Hey, I need you. I know you worked on Mission Impossible in Dubai, and you oversaw some things. I'd like you to come on this movie and do it. And I said, I said, what? You know, where is it? Where are you? And he said, Budapest. And I said, Yeah, I'm there. And I went out there to work on this little movie called Blade Runner 2049, and had a great experience there. I met some incredible filmmakers from all parts of Europe and Germany and Budapest. And Budapest is an incredible place to shoot films, and it can double for like England and France and Russia and Romania all these other places. So while I was there, I got inspired again for another horror movie and a horror thriller, and I started writing. And as soon as I got back home, I got into it, and on the weekends, while I was working there, I just kept writing and writing and writing. And so I came back completed the script, and I'm pushing that now to be done, to shoot it this summer before, Kevin, I just think that, you know, this is something that I want to do and try to get out. We're going to try to approach a couple of companies that I built relationships with, you know that are out there, so hopefully that'll be the next thing. It's called among the damned.

Dave Bullis 59:32
Then again, it's good thing. I asked that because i thought i i, because I wanted to make sure we I knew exactly what you were doing next. Because, again, I think the story of hush and the hatred is fantastic, Mike, and I think, you know, if there's one thing that people can take away just from this interview, it's just that, you know, you've been out there hustling, You know, you didn't wait for an opportunity. You were always out there. You know, number one, you know knowing your craft, like you were saying, you know, knowing you know how to do your job to the best of your abilities, and knowing you know, knowing it inside and out, and also always being, you know, being a being professional like you said. You didn't say to that person, hey, you know you're supposed to do my movie blah, blah, you know, being professional and being flexible at all times, you know, to how things change in the movie business, because they do. They do change all the time. And you know, and obviously always making sure you have opportunities, you know, again, just by hustling.

Michael G. Kehoe 1:00:41
Well, you know, a lot of my friends you know are pretty amazed, because I never give up, you know, and that's the one thing that I think that was instilled upon me from my parents. But I got to give credit to the people like yourself because of your support for this. And I think what's important for people to follow you and do that is this whole journey that the you know, filmmakers like myself go on, you know, you give this opportunity for other people to hear it, to inspire them, and it's because of people like you who really have a force in this industry to help people get along. Because this is what lights a fire in someone when they're sitting in their in their little apartment, they're listening to this, and they find out, hey, this is something I want to do. I can relate to that it's not just because of the filmmaker saying that. It's that person who's putting it out there, and your love for films and your love for this industry, and what you can do to connect that and you being a filmmaker yourself, to go out there. I just think that this is, this is something that's important and also needs to be addressed for people to follow you and and see the different layers that it takes to make a movie. And so I thank you for for your job and what you do, because without know about some of us,

Dave Bullis 1:02:03
Well, you know, and I thank you very much for saying that, Mike, you know, the whole impetus for me creating this was, you know, there's a couple reasons why. The main reason was, you know, I, you know, for people who listen this podcast since episode one, you know, almost three years ago. Now, I almost I started this podcast. Oh, my God, it's been three years, but, but people who've listened to this since, since episode one, they know I started this podcast for one, the number one reason was I got passed over for a promotion that was rightfully mine and my former day job. And two, I, you know, I've always liked the concept of podcasting, and I always liked the idea of doing something like this, and it was just hard to get, you know, people to get together. When I used to the podcast podcast, because I did it with a group of people. But now I just do it myself in my office, and I get to interview really cool people like yourself Mike.

Michael G. Kehoe 1:02:59
Well, listen, like I said, you give us an opportunity. I'm really excited about getting the hatred out there, because the cast, when you see the women in this cast, you know, have done an amazing job, the acting is spot on. I am so fortunate to have actresses that are just so talented. And some of them, you some of them, you know, I mean, in particular, Amanda Wiss, who is in a nightmare on street in Silverado, to some of the other actresses that haven't been out there that much, but they've, they've done some incredible work. And I don't want to you know if I, if I mentioned and I mentioned Amanda, but if I start mentioning one and I don't mention the others, I'll feel kind of guilty. But when the when you go and see this movie, just I want people to to watch the performances of these actresses, because it's, it's their movie as well, and they pull it off so well that it makes the film. It really makes the film. And that's, that's one of the great things of having, you know, an opportunity to work with great actors and actresses, I will say that, you know. And this is kind of, kind of, you know, showing off. But David Naughton is in our film, who played the lead in American Royal from London. And the wonderful thing about having David and Amanda is they only worked one day, and I became friends with them, friends with Amanda prior to that, but creating a relationship with actors and as friends, and knowing that you can put them in their movies and they can pull it off, is the same thing that Scorsese does with De Niro. And I'm not saying I'm not putting myself in the same category as Scorsese, by any means, but I think that having a relationship with incredibly talented actors is so important that you can rely on them just a phone call and say, I need you and they're going to be there to play in your sandbox.

Dave Bullis 1:04:56
Yeah, I couldn't agree more, you know, and that is something to ever. Relationship with certain actresses and actors and and being able to develop, you know, that that's something to make. When I used to watch movies, I used to sometimes wonder why certain directors would always work with the same actors and the same and sometimes they're the same crew. And now I get it. I believe me having, you know, made it, made movies, made short films. You know, I get it now because you get used to working in a certain style, and, you know, if I hire the same person, it's a certain style, if it's my style. And that's why we work, you know, and then we are the combination, the sort of synergy of what we do together helps us both out. You know, that's why, you know, Tim Burton always works with Johnny Depp. That's why, you know, like you said, Scorsese works, always works with Robert De Niro. And you go down the list, you know, Quentin Tarantino always works with Samuel Jackson and now Christoph Voss, it's just they bring out the best in each other.

Michael G. Kehoe 1:05:49
Well, you know, when I did second dance at the last minute, I cast a friend of mine who's a bartender. That's a great actor. His name is Brad Wilson, and he gave such a such an incredible performance, and was so dedicated, he didn't have the script until that morning, and he gave 100% to this, to the script. I put him in two other films after that, and you know, he's just a chameleon. He's He's a great actor, and I think that I'm fortunate to have somebody like that in my back pocket, where I could pick up the phone and call him up and say, Hey, Brad, I need you to do this. I have the same relationship with Jack McGee. If you know Jack McGee is Jack McGee was the father in the fighter. He was in a TV series called God the fire. The Fire TV series, it's gonna kill me that I can remember not rescue me, it was rescue me. I think it was,

Dave Bullis 1:06:44
I was actually gonna say that,

Michael G. Kehoe 1:06:46
Yeah, and Jack has been a friend. He's been in a few few films of mine. And I just, you know, I we're friends. I just call him up, and he always says to me, Kia, what are you doing? What's going on? Am I going to work with you? And having a talented actor that likes that's like, that, that supports you is worth its weight in gold, and so I really want to express to other actors create relationships. Don't you know? It's great to know about camera and there was a, there was a, there's a great statement that was made, I believe it was Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon at the Academy Awards, and when they were giving an award out to directors, they said, there are directors that know everything about the human element and nothing about camera. There are directors that know everything about camera and nothing about the human element. And I think that it's important to know about both. So when you get on on the set and you're talking to an actor, you need to speak their language in order to get the performance that you want. When you talk to your DP, you need to speak their language to get to capture those moments. And I'll never forget, I was working with a stunt man who was a director years ago, and there's a lot of very talented stunt directors that are now becoming great filmmakers, but this guy in particular, I'll never forget what he said. He says, let's hurry up with this dialog so we can go flip the car. And I think when you have that attitude, you miss the essence of what filmmaking is all about, and how to bring out a great story. So create a relationship with actors and and learn their language. You know, if you have to sit through acting classes or whatever and watch them create, that's important?

Dave Bullis 1:08:32
Yeah, it's when someone says something like that, you know, like, Let's race through these lines so we can flip the car. You know, it's they don't realize that you have to sort of earn those things. And what I mean by earning the car crash or earning the, you know, the kill in a slasher movie, because you have to build up these characters, so we actually care about what happens to them. So if they do are in a car accident, or do flip their car, or what have you, we as the audience are actually invested in their in their journey. And these aren't just sort of moments that are happening for the sake of them happening, but they're actually happening for a reason in the site inside this story,

Michael G. Kehoe 1:09:05
Yeah. I mean, look exactly and story, it's all about the story. There's some incredible stunt men. And the stunt men of today, you know, that are extremely talented, are like scientists, because they measure out things, they want to make sure it's there. And they're also great actors. I have some some friends of mine that are great stuntmen, that are incredible actors, and they pay attention to story. So I think a lot of has changed over the years, and and the business is evolving. And so we learn every day. I mean, I don't I don't know it all. I'm learning every day. I learn something new about the business. And you know how it changed from film to digital, and how all this process that you go through in this journey teaches you something about about, you know, how the process is, how the business is, but one thing that remains the same is telling a story, and that's what's most important.

Dave Bullis 1:10:07
Yeah, the story is always, always the most important element in all this, because, you know, the cinematography, we tell a story and everything you know, like you know, we've been talking for, you know, for about an, you know, about an hour five, I guess you know. So just in closing, is there anything we didn't talk about that maybe you wanted to or is there anything or maybe it was something you just wanted to say to sort of put a period at the end of this whole conversation.

Michael G. Kehoe 1:10:31
Well, I mean, listen, listen, I would love to to stay in touch with you and and do another one of these anytime you want. I am speaking at the geek Fest in Long Beach on the 18th with Ivana cadaver Amanda Wiss and Jessica Cameron. So, you know, I think I just, you know, I just, I want to make sure that that filmmakers, you know, take the right path and and we can all help each other. You know, in this business, I think that's one of the great things about how we, you know, if someone does a poor job, you don't want to tear them apart and knock them down. You just want to support them and help them get to the next, the next level. So I'm, you know, I want to, I want to continue my relationship with you and get the word out and share the things that I do with with the audience.

Dave Bullis 1:11:20
And I will link to, you know, Michael's appearance at Geekfest. I'm going to link to anything in the show notes where people can check that out, because I know, like you were, we were saying you are doing a panel, you know, with Jesse Cameron, and you're and I want to make sure that. And again, you know, as we talk about Geekfest, we were both friends with Bill Ostrov as well. We have a lot of mutual friends. Mike, yeah, and I want to stay in contact with you as well. And for everyone who's interested in checking out all of Michael's work and also checking out you know him, him at this panel convention, I'm gonna put that in the show notes. And Michael, do you have any websites that you want to give out to anyone?

Michael G. Kehoe 1:11:59
Well, you know, I mean, you can follow me on Instagram, which is M, I, K, E, H O E, dot, LL11, one, and, or, I'm sorry, it's M, I, K, E, H, O, E, 1, 1, on Instagram and Twitter is at Mikey Kehoe. And, you know, we have a Facebook page which is called Alice the hatred, which is slowly getting attention, and would people go out? You know, we've had a number of titles for that, so it's now called the hatred, I believe, unless there's some changes. So those sites, yeah, follow me on it, because I'll be posting some information and and obviously the journeys and things that I'm doing. So hopefully I can give a boost up to someone else.

Dave Bullis 1:12:45
And that is, that is fantastic, Mike, and I always like that attitude about, you know, helping each other out. I think that's what it's really about, is helping each other out. It too many, you meet too many filmmakers who become, you know, either they're closed, guarded or jaded from from even from the onset sometimes, and they're just like, No, no. It's all about, you know. And it's just, you know, they don't want to, and I've seen them burn out as well. And I could do a whole podcast about that, you know. But it's always great to meet people like you, Mike, in this in this industry, who are really talented, but they also are so willing to help out others. It's just, you know, it's just phenomenal.

Michael G. Kehoe 1:13:23
Well, you know, I think, I think, you know, there are great, great companies out there that are giving filmmakers an opportunity. One that comes to mind right away is Blumhouse. And Blumhouse has, you know, a number of divisions, Blumhouse, tilt, blumhouse.com and the films that they make, especially in the horror genre, they allow their filmmakers to make their movie. And I am, I am so drawn to that company that that's the attitude that I have about wanting to help people and wanting to go out, that if you're ever, if you're if you're a writer or, you know, a filmmaker that's creating, you know, something in that genre, and mind you, they're do also doing, they did Benji, which is the old dog movie, you know, from from the 80s, and they did whiplash in a number of films. That, to me, is, is what it's all about. That company really puts themselves out there to to give a shot to people. So hopefully we'll all, we'll all be doing that.

Dave Bullis 1:14:20
Yeah, Blumhouse is fantastic. You know, I'm always interested to see what they're up to, and it they're just great. And, yeah, you know, yeah, there's not enough I could say about them and what they're what they're up to. And, you know, Mike, I want to say, you know, thank you for coming on everyone. You could always find me. Dave bulls.com Again, everything Michael and I talked about on the show when I put in the show notes at Dave bulls.com Twitter, it's at Dave underscore Bullis, Michael, I want to say thank you so much for coming on,

Michael G. Kehoe 1:14:50
Dave. Keep the dream alive.

Dave Bullis 1:14:52
I'm going to do my best buddy, and I wish you the best of luck with everything. And you know what, anytime you want to come back on, you let me know, and we're gonna make it work. And I'm gonna, I want to, definitely want to have you back on

Michael G. Kehoe 1:15:05
Great my friend. Take care!

Dave Bullis 1:15:07
Take care. My friend, Bye, bye.