IFH 086: Jenica Bergere – Insanity in Acting & Directing a Micro Budget Feature Film

Alex Ferrari 3:53
So without any further ado, please enjoy my hilarious conversation with the amazing Jenica Bergere. Jenica thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show today. Thank you so so much.

Jenica Bergere 5:23
Does anybody ever say it's not my pleasure?

Alex Ferrari 5:26
But now you're the first so thank you for that. So for people who don't know Janica is a very pregnant as you like to put it.

Jenica Bergere 5:34
I'm very pregnant. I've been pregnant, very pregnant for the last three years essentially.

Alex Ferrari 5:39
Exactly. And is one of the main reasons we cast you

Jenica Bergere 5:43
which was so exciting because nobody's casting me this time round with my pregnancy with my last two pregnancies. I worked a ton Did you really well this pregnancy? I haven't. Other than Mrs. mag, no one's checking for me.

Alex Ferrari 5:57
Well, you know, it's just great production value. And I don't know if you saw it on our Facebook that we actually put up I think the first picture we put up of you I'm like yeah, it cost us $1,000 to get it to look like like, the makeup was amazing. And you had no idea how many people like Wow, that's a really great makeup job.

Jenica Bergere 6:16
That's a really great belly to great belly.

Alex Ferrari 6:18
I mean how did you do that? I'm like,

Jenica Bergere 6:21
I love how you put her double chin and that was amazing. Her double chin

Alex Ferrari 6:27
that's all post that's Photoshop that's all photos. So janica wanted to get it wanted to ask you a bunch of questions because I adore you you know I adore you

Jenica Bergere 6:37
and I you know excited when you guys called and said you want that because I you went away and then you came back with indie film hustle which is so you which is so great. Thank

Alex Ferrari 6:46
you so much. And I you know I absolutely the audit for the audience to know me and janica worked on a project 767 years ago, I think now and it was called it's very funny. It was zombie marriage counseling. Which was funny you were the counselor. And that's where I fell in love with you at that day. We shot I was just I was just oh my god, I have to work with her again. And then of course I don't call you for six

Jenica Bergere 7:12
years. We had like babies to make an olive oil

Alex Ferrari 7:15
to i was i was in I was in my my dark deep black hole and you were you were making babies. So but I'm glad we were able to jump on this one. But we'll get into this as Megan a little bit for first. What was your first job in the business?

Jenica Bergere 7:31
Well, my first job in the business was I was like three years old. My mom was at Ralph's in Van Nuys Boulevard on Van Nuys Boulevard. And somebody said they were a casting director. And then I would be cute in this commercial. And it was a GE commercial. Of course, I don't remember it. And my co star was Drew Barrymore. No Yeah, who is that? And that was before 80 so um, my mom was equally as crazy as Drew Barrymore, his mom and they stayed friends. And they stayed friends. I would imagine if there was texting back then they would have continued to text but because there wasn't they couldn't maintain their crazy relationship. So got it. But so that was like the first thing and that was I guess you could call it a discovery at a very a very young age. But it turns out I was just an extra on that and and Drew Barrymore was the lead on that which would make sense and why she was 30 and then I did like a bunch of commercials when I was a kid, but nothing, nothing significant. They were all sort of non union and then I did one commercial you see the back of my head and I got my sag card. I told my mom I don't ever want to do this again. I hate show business. I hate these. I hate I want to stay at school. I really only wanted to stay at school not to study just for the social aspect. Because I just wanted to see my friends I had a boyfriend he had a Ghostbusters t shirt has a machine super cute. Then my boyfriend Jamal Jemaine Warner, hi. We had a little like dancing club. I hadn't, you know, I couldn't fit showbusiness into my social schedule. My mom paid continue to pay my sag dues. But when I realized I wanted to pursue it I was in high school my senior year and you know when I don't know if you ever had this in your high school, but a person comes and does like an infomercial, basically for memorization. And they set it up in the gym and they explain like these tools for memorization, remember all that? Remember this? Yeah. So the guy came, they set up the microphone, and the guy was late. And we were all just sitting there in the in the auditorium or gym and I, my friend was like, go do some stand up and I was like, all right. So I got up and I did Eddie Murphy's whole act from delirious, delirious. Of course, Ron was okay, delirious was, you know the bomb. And then a big bounce shot came. And then from that point on my actually my theater teacher was like, I think you should pursue this. I was like really? Okay, I have a SAG card and she's like, that's half the battle. So, at that time I was in Palm Springs came to Los Angeles got a job at a coffee house called insomnia, which was popular and a producer came in her name was Lisa and she produced a show for VH one called naked cafe and they wanted people to improvise. And I got my first job.

Alex Ferrari 10:47
And and I read somewhere in your bio that you were worked with Russell Simmons, he was kind of like he kind of discovered you and innocence.

Jenica Bergere 10:55
Exactly. Um, so I kept doing stand up. I was really bad at it. But I was really young and bold. So people were interested, but I really had nothing to say. And Russell was like, You crazy white girl. I like you. I like you. He came to a show. Okay. And he was like, we started this company with to breathe. Life in ruffling gray, and breast and gray is the other half. That's the white side. With the black side. We have Def Jam comics, I think you should be on the black side. So I was the only white female comic on the black side of the Def Jam. Comics, right. And that opened up opportunities for everything. I did an audition for SNL. I was 19 years old. They got me an audition. I went flew to New York I audition in front of Conan O'Brien Dennis Miller. They were in the audience just randomly. didn't get it. Molly Shannon did.

Alex Ferrari 11:55
You're friends with Molly now you've worked with her? Many times? Yes.

Jenica Bergere 11:59
She did us a favor and did my movie many many years later, but but because we shared a limo ride back from our hotel. We both didn't get SNL and we knew by the time we're going to the plane. I was crying in the car. I'm 19 and she's like why are you crying? I was 40 and then she got it.

Alex Ferrari 12:23
So then you've done a lot of stand up obviously in your career. Now how is that prepared you for being an actress? Or has it

Jenica Bergere 12:32
um the only thing that's prepared is the leather the leather skin that I developed just for so many times bombing

Alex Ferrari 12:44
Oh, it's brutal i mean i want you and Julie and all any stand up my it's like it is so hard to go out front of a stage with a mic and make people laugh for you for amount of time like you might get one joke but to do a set of even a five minute sets. It's like an eternity. So these guys like that do an hour hour and a half and it's got people rolling for that long. I mean oh god and you also met Julie doing stand up correct?

Jenica Bergere 13:14
Yeah, well actually, Julie was the only female comic I've ever met that was nice. And I met her at the ice house which I'll call for the sake of the story the nice house she I think that the thing we had in common is that I knew that she was a good actress and so there wasn't a level it's weird it's like almost like somebody who's done theater you know it's you can be a part of an ensemble and stand up is very singular. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 13:48
There's literally a spotlight on you

Jenica Bergere 13:50
is literally a spotlight So, um, so we just remained friends but I realized eventually with stand up for me, is I didn't have I didn't I wasn't the best form for what I had to say as an artist. It wasn't it didn't exercise all of my muscles and my talents and I was trying to just get attention, I think on stage and that's not a good reason to do stand up. I remember opening for Rodney Dangerfield and it was a pivotal moment for me because I realized that he's the guy who didn't get respect and he had to tell you that that's where his funny came from. He really didn't get respect and he's this you know, he was this dopey dopey guy don't be fat guy and it it would ring true what I had to say I probably had not enough life experience at the time and I I found that it's better to translate my material through first a one woman show them a TV show and then a movie.

Alex Ferrari 14:50
Got it. So that's what you that's where you kind of started leaning more on being an actress than then yeah,

Jenica Bergere 14:55
I mean, I feel like I'll go back to stand up. I just It is such a grind.

Alex Ferrari 15:00
Oh, I know, I know, Julie. I mean, I've, I've worked with a bunch of stand ups in my day, you know, as a director, and I've seen it firsthand, you know, I've been on, you know, on, like a little tour where there's, you know, 10,000 people one night, and I've been in the comedy club, you know, when there's, you know, five people. And it's, it's a grind. It's like, you've gotta it's one thing to be the funny guy at the party. It's another thing to make a profession at making people laugh. It's it's very, very difficult. And also also cutthroat.

Jenica Bergere 15:35
It's cutthroat and it but it really is truly a gift. Like, I don't think I am gifted in that way. I think I have. I have, I'm fearless. And that's what made me stand out. But, and I had breasts and that was unusual. Um, but ultimately, it's a it's a you really have to be driven to do it. Just like you really have to be driven to be a politician. You have to really be driven to have that spotlight. That's just you. Right? Right. And I didn't. I didn't. I couldn't hack it once. I once I had my first daughter of my 19 children than I have.

Alex Ferrari 16:17
Yes, I see your Amish. It's nice. Very, very nice. That you obviously Roman Catholic, not joking.

Jenica Bergere 16:27
Half Catholic half Jewish. Both are your coincidentally horny

Alex Ferrari 16:31
sand. Obviously no television in the house at all ever, ever.

Jenica Bergere 16:37
bored, bored, bored as fuck, literally. Um, so. So once I had my first kid, I was like, I can't do this. I can't be like hanging out with the dude that's been working on a joke for two years. At a coffee house trying to get my material, right. It's not gonna happen.

Alex Ferrari 16:55
Got it? Yeah, your priorities changed. And things become clear. This has happened. It happens to all of us. I agree with you. 100%. Now, when you're working with a director, what do you look for? In a good director and a good collaborator?

Jenica Bergere 17:09
Well, first, what is their vision for the project? Like what the best directors I've worked for, have dreamt of their of what they're doing. It's I have worked with so many technical directors who are amazing visually and do not know how to speak to a human being. Yes, I've worked with great directors who were actors who really know how to work with actors, but you know, don't know anything technically. I think one of the best directors I worked with was Colin trevorrow, who directed safety not guaranteed and it's not a shock that he was essentially scouted as a mini me by Steven Spielberg for Jurassic World, because he from the moment I met him, it was so dear to him to tell this story. He knew every single part of the film and how he wanted to tell it and so he had you know, some of the technical side but he also had the heart of the story and he had partially he had worked collaborated with the writer of the story which Derek Connolly who wrote it who was amazing and had a great idea and he also just he wanted it to be special right down to the music. So

Alex Ferrari 18:31
if you guys haven't seen that movie, it is so much fun. And it is such a dear movie like you say it there's a lot of heart and safety not guaranteed.

Jenica Bergere 18:39
Yeah, I'm I'm really grateful to be a part of it. He's Oh, he was one of the best directors I've ever worked with. I've gotten to work with Curtis Hanson, who was amazing, because when I met with him, I'm doing this really dramatic scene playing alcoholic mother who's getting beaten by her husband, and who just who just wants the best for her son, but she doesn't have enough self esteem and has to work at Kmart. I mean, really high stakes and did this great scene and really just talked to my acting coach before I went in and really gave myself permission to go there and dark place. And after I was done, he said, looked at my resume looked up and he said, What was it like to work with Helen Mirren? And I realized, like, for working with him, I mean, he's, he's done amazing movies. Of course, for him. It wasn't about the indulgent performance or anything like that. It was like who was the person? And I said, what was great about Helen, because she directed me in a, in a short film that was actually nominated with a series of short films. For Oscar A lot of people don't know that. What was great about working with her was she was just like me, an insecure actress. She said, You know, I I am Same as in my native land. But here, it's very hard for Americans to adopt me. It's very hard for them to

Alex Ferrari 20:07
what are you talking about? Alan,

Jenica Bergere 20:09
we love you. Right? But she was That's what I'm saying. That's what was so amazing was that she was just an insecure actress like me. And that made Curtis laugh. And then I got another part in the movie.

Alex Ferrari 20:19
Oh, no, yes. It's amazing. You know, what's amazing about this business? It has, yes, talent is important. Experience is important. But it's so like, it's almost like so random. Sometimes a funny story could get you apart, or get your part extended, which can lead to somebody else looking at that part and go, Oh, well let me cast her and then boom, boom, boom, and you're in Jurassic World. Like it's, you know, it, there's a lot of work that has to happen, but I think it's just you got to kind of be in the game for things to happen, I guess. But it but once you're in the game, you

Jenica Bergere 20:54
also have to know your I think that the internet changed things completely for me auditioning, I could really see somebody's material before I went in, I could really know about them read about them know, their personal life, what, what kind of toilet paper they use, and everything before I went in, I could almost be a stalker before the audition. Almost. Um, but like, there's a difference between auditioning for TV shows, which is really frustrating. And the director is out of that process. There'll be in the room, they don't have a say, it's the EP. Know,

Alex Ferrari 21:27
who's the who's the who's the decision maker? Oh, the studio? No, no,

Jenica Bergere 21:30
that's the ultimate decision. The producer, the creator of the show, is who you're auditioning for. The writer, the writer, creator, producer, sometimes a non writing producer, if that producer likes you, you have to go to network to be approved. The director is completely just literally in the same position, you are hired hand hired hand. There is no I've auditioned for directors that I've worked with who love me who I've known for a TV show, and they have no say in it whatsoever. It is about the creator of that TV show and the network's relationship with that creator. And that's really frustrating place to be because there are several times that I've gone in, and two times something was written for me, and I don't get the job.

Alex Ferrari 22:20
Seriously.

Jenica Bergere 22:22
I've even seen in casting breakdowns, a jenica barrage error type, and not gotten an audition.

Alex Ferrari 22:32
That's why how is that happen?

Jenica Bergere 22:36
Because there's 30 people making a decision for television.

Alex Ferrari 22:40
As opposed to film a feature film, it's a lot less. Well, they're studio

Jenica Bergere 22:43
and then there's indie. So indie film could literally quite literally be for people, which would be amazing. It which is the amazing side thing. That's why I wanted to make an independent film because it was a reaction to a television show that I made. When I wrote a one woman show for the purpose of selling a TV show instead of doing stand up. I invited everybody in show business. They came. ABC, CBS, Fox, everybody was interested. I went around with a showrunner we pitched Fox past ABC past CBS past, Nickelodeon bought it for Nick at night. Okay, they said we buy it with one stipulation. jakka doesn't get to start it.

Alex Ferrari 23:25
Are you kidding me? No. So

Jenica Bergere 23:28
we said, okay, we developed it. It was developed to my life. But based on my life, my experience of my husband being a chef who cooks for celebrities, and I want to be one, it's Lucy and Desi in a restaurant. And my best friend who works, who my best friend character is like the NFL. She works for the city as a crisis responders. So she has access to planes, trains, and automobiles, because she knows the fire department, police department everything. So we're always trying to bust into these parties and work where my husband is. And at the end of the day, it was all about raising my daughter true. Because it's the only way I know how is is to act.

Alex Ferrari 24:06
Right? They wonder sounds like a great show,

Jenica Bergere 24:09
right? They love the story. They did not love. It's not that they didn't love me. They they were very clear. We're trying to make something of ourselves for our network, Nick at night. And we want to name and that's how it's gonna go. So we develop the show. And we had a script that they really liked, but it wasn't getting greenlit. So my non writing producer decided to produce a pilot presentation and pay for it. And we did it to prove that I could star in my own show. And Gil played my best friend. Right. And we promptly proved that I couldn't start my own show. Why? Because so much control was taken away from me. It became about even in the indie experience of creating a pilot presentation. There were Three non writing producers. One showrunner one writers assistant who became a writer on the show and became a crater on the show me writing a casting director who was helping us another producer who came on to line produce. There was so many opinion let alone I'm not I can't talk. Why? Oh, see? Yes. What? No, thank you. My husband likes to interrupt me. I see this, like, there she is talking about herself again.

Alex Ferrari 25:45
So I'm on indie film, hustle, please leave me alone.

Jenica Bergere 25:47
Please leave me alone. bigger fish to fry.

Alex Ferrari 25:51
So you can't you didn't. So there's so many people, there's so many chefs in the kitchen. No pun intended

Jenica Bergere 25:56
kitchen. And as a reaction to everybody saying this didn't work. The network's saying it didn't work. My people saying it didn't work. My agent saying nobody should see this if you want to save your idea. Which by the way, nobody's helped me with the idea since and I've gotten the script back. No one should see this as a reaction to that I wrote, come see me. I said, I want to I want to just take two cameras. I want to shoot six days. And this is what I want to do. And I met two producers who would help me do that Keith Carville at unified pictures. And he helped me because he saw the show. And he said, You're right. It isn't good. It isn't what I know of you. Let me help you make what you want to make.

Alex Ferrari 26:42
How cool now this is the this is the micro budget feature. microbead directed,

Jenica Bergere 26:46
that I directed. And I wasn't even planning on. It's not like I set out in the world to direct. I was like, I was encouraged by both him and James Porter Lacey who came along and helped me make a $10,000 budget. And my friend, Mary renew who cast who cast it and produced it. I was encouraged by all of them to direct it because it was my story for a while I wasn't going to direct it, somebody else was and then it was like, No, that's what went wrong with the TV show. I'm trying to tell a story. I need to be able to tell it the way I need, whether it's good or bad. I need to be able to tell it, right. And I co authored it with my friend Dr. joley, who's actually a way better writer than me and helps me structure it in a way that made it a film.

Alex Ferrari 27:35
And what did you shoot on? Do you remember the cameras?

Jenica Bergere 27:38
Canon Canon? HD seven.

Alex Ferrari 27:41
Okay. All right, so you shall

Jenica Bergere 27:44
Yes, and they bet he begged me my dp Peter Mohsen. and begged me not to use those he begged me for the Blackmagic we had in the budget $900 for cameras, we had two free cameras so we use the $900 for pretty lenses.

Alex Ferrari 27:58
And just like I haven't called you, you didn't call me true true. So it's it's a it's fair. I think at this point, I would have been more than happy

Jenica Bergere 28:12
to help you out with God, I don't would have been amazing. I would have been more than happy

Alex Ferrari 28:17
to do the post all that kind of stuff. But But now we're working on this as well. We'll get to that in a second. So tell me and you're now the the come see me that was scripted or a little bit non scripted as well.

Jenica Bergere 28:30
It was both it was it was about 46 pages. But the whole feature.

Alex Ferrari 28:34
She's definitely a little bit of improv there.

Jenica Bergere 28:37
Yeah, definitely Ember have in between, what what what I knew was what that what I wanted, from the scenes, and we would put five beats to the scenes. And there were very specific descriptions of what I needed that were between me and the DP for the script. And Doc, very elegantly doctored it, literally, and made it legible for everybody in the cast to read. Instead of like crazy, and then the moms like fucky. And this is just like, Yeah, he made it a little more appealing. Um, and, and we ended up improvising within those confines of the scenes, but we knew where we were going to shoot, we knew our locations. We had it all mapped out. And all the cast members had a Bible that I had written that was about 20 pages about who this family was, so that they had that to work with. Got it. And in most cases, the best lines in the movie came from people improvising, not something I'd written. And I wanted to have this organic experience with actors, because I had had such a non organic experience of telling my life of when I did the TV show.

Alex Ferrari 29:59
We'll be right back. After a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Jenica Bergere 30:09
I've tried to hit jokes and lines and it not working. And it not being like the real Josh. And this great actor, Joshua funk, who's an improviser, played my husband. And we just knew each other. So it just really worked. We really seem like a couple. And he also had to commit to because I wanted to give birth in the film. Because I was actually

Alex Ferrari 30:36
your method, your method director, and

Jenica Bergere 30:38
director. I was nine months or seven months pregnant when we filmed it. And we knew that we had one day left, and it was the day to give birth. And everybody was on call. And Josh, who played my husband, Josh, the one requirement I when I talked to him, I said, How do you feel about being in the delivery room and pretending to be my husband, with my real husband there and my kids and stuff like that, and he said, I think it would be fun.

Alex Ferrari 31:09
And your husband's just off camera?

Jenica Bergere 31:12
Well, what we did was we ended up delivering the baby and using the footage from the camera. And I talked to my ob gyn and having labor on delivery for 15 minutes. They left the room, my real family left the room. My fake family came in

Alex Ferrari 31:28
and your ob gyn did the scene. He

Jenica Bergere 31:32
we used his stuff from this from the footage we used in in the hospital room very minimal footage, obviously didn't want to show a bloody mess. So we use him delivering and the baby being weighed and the baby coming out and the baby being put on my chest. And it was actually in my was one of my most proud directing moments ever because the whole crew was standing outside the sound, my ad, my dp and my friends who were in the movie, and I said and James Porter Lacey produced, and I gave birth, and they all came in and they were like, okay, how's this gonna go? and Connie kitane was supposed to be in the scene and she was stuck in traffic texting me while I'm giving birth. Can you just wait? And I was like, no. I'm dilated. It's happening. Oh, but I'm almost there. She literally arrived 20 minutes after the baby was born. And we only had labor and delivery for 15 minutes. So Josh came in. And the ad said, okay, we shot a bunch of stuff in the hallway, and we think it goes, you know, scream, scream, scream, and then we come up on your face. And I said, No, no, no, no, that is not how childbirth is. It Josh is here. He's videoing it. The babies just been born. The scene takes place after the baby's just been born. Okay. Set the camera up. And you'll have to see it when you see the scene. It looks like they were actually there.

Alex Ferrari 33:03
Oh my god. That's so that's I mean, well, obviously, this is something I can never do as a director. So

Jenica Bergere 33:11
you will never have that luxury. I'm sorry. I'll never

Alex Ferrari 33:14
I will never know.

Jenica Bergere 33:16
But you could be invited. No, no, no, actually, you could. I'm pregnant. Do you want if you want to use it in Ruby, see we can. I appreciate it. I'm willing. I'm not kind of vagina.

Alex Ferrari 33:28
I understand. I understand. You are fearless. There's no question about it. You are one of the most fearless actresses I've ever worked with. So yes, without question now on on some technical stuff when you were finished with come see me. How did you get it out into the world? How did you get it distributed? How did distributors feel about it? You know, how did how did it go?

Jenica Bergere 33:52
I'm like any indie filmmaker. I made a movie for Sundance.

Alex Ferrari 33:58
Yes, of course we all do. mega has been submitted.

Jenica Bergere 34:01
Of course. When I got the I literally just made it for Sundance. I had no plan outside of that.

Alex Ferrari 34:08
Oh, really. So you were like just a lottery ticket. That was it

Jenica Bergere 34:11
just said this is it. And I thought I'm betting I'm literally betting 10,000. We spent 10,000. we're betting 10,000 and a childbirth on Sundance. And then I'll never forget the 6am email I got that was the standard email you get because my other friend had submitted her film and she she certainly thought hers was going to Sundance too. Right and we're both on the toilet I think at 6am texting each other and we received the same email. That seems personal but isn't personal, right? And I was just floored. I mean, I had no backup plan. There was no backup plan. And luckily James portal AC had a backup plan. He had always thought that we should just go straight Two distributors. And I said, Well, I kind of just made it to tell the story. And he was like, well, I kind of made it so people could see it. So

Alex Ferrari 35:12
you're like, you're like the product for the typical artists. Like I just wanted to tell the story. I could make money doing this.

Jenica Bergere 35:19
I literally was golly, gee willikers. And he had produced my friend, Lance Kinsey's film, that's an improvised movie that I'm in as well. Right before this movie. And Lance said to him, let me be very clear, James. I made this movie to make money. But I made the movie for the story, or the art for the art or the art I did. And then I realized that the one gratifying artistic market place. didn't accept it. I didn't have a backup plan. Luckily, it got into new filmmakers, la Yeah, which was a nice, great festival. They're wonderful. And it had gotten in before Sundance, and they said, Well, let us know if you don't get in.

Alex Ferrari 36:06
And I was like, as they as they, as they chuckled,

Jenica Bergere 36:09
exactly. And I was like, yeah, we're gonna get in, and I immediately called them and said, it's available. And then a great festival called first time fast in New York. loved it, and it was in competition with six films, and the people who looked at the film noir Martin Scorsese, Harvey Weinstein, and then Harvey Weinstein came and spoke to us filmmakers at the festival that was a great festival. And then it continued to go on to like 12 more festivals, Women in Film, it won Best Screenplay three times, which is hilarious because your problem is it's a 46 page script. But I attribute those awards to doc purely for making it making my crazy legible and palpable, and then randomly, we never had a distributor screening and we did not meet distributors at festivals. James emailed a the orchard, which is a big distributor, and they they district, they exclusively distribute duplass films. And she wrote back in a month or so and said, I love the film. And we'd love to release it a worldwide digital distribution. So it went on Amazon's AI, Amazon iTunes on demand. Virgin America airlines, which was exciting. And they're currently in negotiation for some kind of broadcast that we're hoping that we get and it just was released on DVD may 15. How cool

Alex Ferrari 37:48
is that? So yeah, have you hasn't made any money back? Can you tell Can

Jenica Bergere 37:52
you know not $1 $1

Alex Ferrari 37:58
not even a cent.

Jenica Bergere 37:59
Not even a sense. So

Alex Ferrari 38:01
a $10,000 movie has yet to make a profit.

Jenica Bergere 38:05
We keep getting guaranteed that we will make a profit.

Alex Ferrari 38:09
You have to I mean that I got

Jenica Bergere 38:12
what I feel good about is that I know how to make a movie for that little that's what I feel good about what I walked away from is okay, I didn't get into Sundance, I didn't break out as the newest, amazing, innovative director who uses her life story and all her stories.

Alex Ferrari 38:32
Like precious but different. Exactly.

Jenica Bergere 38:34
I'm not that different at this point, but um I once that didn't happen, I realized what we what I did, what I do know how to do is support art support indie filmmaking. And I went on to support my best friend who made her film. And she successfully crowdfunded for 50,000 I didn't want to crowdfund because I was too nervous to ask for money.

Alex Ferrari 39:06
Tell me about that.

Jenica Bergere 39:07
I let her ask for it. And she she's finished that that film is almost finished. Oh, great. And, you know, projects like this is Meg I'm absolutely rooting for because it's, it's born of, I would like to take some control and I have something to say, which is a little bit of the to go back to stand up, which is a little bit of why we started stand up. Like I have something to say I'm here. I'm different. I have something to say. Let me get on stage. Hopefully. We can have some fun tonight. And but at the end of the day, most stand ups No matter how much they have to say. Most stand ups want a TV show and want to be Seinfeld whoo

Alex Ferrari 39:51
Yeah, cuz after he got the first check when I went into into reruns, exactly. was a 300 million

Jenica Bergere 39:57
was something like something Bananas. I just don't get residuals for my episode of Seinfeld. So I'm sure I can imagine

Alex Ferrari 40:05
what he gets exactly what any of the main cast get. Exactly. So since you brought Nick up, let's talk about a little bit about this as mag. So you, you get a call from Julie. And and do you know the whole though? How this whole project came to be?

Jenica Bergere 40:22
I do. It's very similar to me she went through a pilot season that was hell. And you called her and said, I want to do something, let's get your friends together do this. And she was like, I'm tired of being treated like crap, I want to do my own thing.

Alex Ferrari 40:36
Right? I called her up and I said, Jill, I want to make a movie, I want you to be the star of it. And I want to talk about your experiences as an actress and a stand up in LA. Yeah, being a female, and not being 20 years old. Let's let's do something real. And, and like, let's call everybody up, and I end but by the way, jenica the first words out of my mouth, like Angelica has to be in it. She told me that. That was like one of the firt like, and jenica has to be so you even though hadn't called you You were always in the back of my head, I need you out and what we do jenica has to come in. Ah, so

Jenica Bergere 41:10
I was happy that you were involved. She said I'm we're the gang is back together again, is basically what she said. And as I'm in whatever, what you want me to do?

Alex Ferrari 41:19
I haven't. I haven't I know she called like, we cast the movie in three days. That's so rad. She just calls everybody up. And she's like, I'm making a movie. She's like everyone, everyone basically said, Yeah, let's go do it. What do you need? And it was so wonderful to see how fast everything got off the ground. Now, and obviously you jumped on the train because of your relationship with her and wanting to work with me. Can you talk a little bit about Ruby and your experience? Bring her to life?

Jenica Bergere 41:50
Well, it's funny because she wanted me to play this sort of retired actress who's claiming to be retired on purpose, because she's happily married with a bunch of kids. And when she first said that, I was like, Oh, I know how to play this because I'm not retired. But I have a bunch of kids and I know how to be a mom. What was different was that she's she Meg works for her. And she keeps her on as a nanny, which is something very LA and the nanny Meg never meets the children. Right? She's really basically supposed to be a paid friend. Right? And I know that she's the backup. She's the backup nanny. And I know these women, my daughter has gone to preschool with these women. And it was very difficult for me to tap into because the operative word that actually got me centered in playing the character improvising was be a bitch. Yes. And I never really get to be a bit. But everybody has an inner bitch. And now it came out guys have inner

Alex Ferrari 42:59
bitches,

Jenica Bergere 43:00
even guys haven't Oh, that's for sure. I think guys are more in touch with their inner bitch than girls. You know, we don't really want to, we don't really want to rear its ugly head. But once I could. For me working on a character, I always have to get the costume and the makeup right. And not in a vain way. It's like what am I wearing? Like, I kill a texture like five times, like, Can we discuss what I'm wearing? I need to I want to wear a kimono? Yes. I was like, I need to come Oh, no. I'm also pregnant. grotesquely pregnant, I feel hideous. But this is a girl who was an actress. So she's obviously has some sort of vanity. And I'm not that kind of being an actress. So I had to put myself in the shoes of somebody who gets facials and takes takes care of themselves. Yes, of course. That was different. My idea of a facial is splashing water on my face. So um, so that was really fun. But once in the scene, first of all, Jill and I have worked together and a lot. So we're always I've always called upon her to play my best friend in things. And so that was really easy. And I like her so much. It was really hard for me to be a bitch to her. But again, when she gave me the license to do

Alex Ferrari 44:14
that, or you you went

Jenica Bergere 44:17
to went for it. And you're so you're so supportive, and if I don't get you to laugh, then I'm not funny.

Alex Ferrari 44:27
Yes, true. That's very true. You and many, many times I giggled quietly as the scene went

Jenica Bergere 44:34
Yeah, so it was just a really fun experience.

Alex Ferrari 44:38
It was wasn't it

Jenica Bergere 44:38
we haven't realized really I mean not want to do it again.

Alex Ferrari 44:41
Yeah, I'm trying to think of how I'm trying to think of how we can bring you back Ruby's birth. I think the birth I think we're gonna

Jenica Bergere 44:49
I'm gonna just keep I want because how is just think about it from this angle. How is the kid that I filmed the movie of giving birth to and by the way, my oldest daughter wrote the song In the movie that was nominated for an award, she wrote it. She was 10 years old, and she wrote a song and guitar that was nominated. So that was commemorated in the movie. How do you think this baby's going to feel if you don't commemorate her birth on your film?

Alex Ferrari 45:17
We'll have you at the end. At the end, the end credits sequence of bonus.

Jenica Bergere 45:25
Movie calls Megan's like, you need to have this baby for me. You need to pull it out.

Alex Ferrari 45:30
Like wherever you are, please just come, please. Come out. I'll show you. I'll triple your pay. I need you to pull this out. I'm so tired of these babies. We had such a good time and what you know what with this project specifically, you know, I've kind of really wanted to work with people who are very seasoned, like yourself and Carlos and our cast pretty much everybody on the cast is

Jenica Bergere 45:54
is Moe and Moe Collins and Deborah Irwin, Deborah and all the funniest women I've ever seen.

Alex Ferrari 46:03
I can't wait to do our scene together in a few weeks, but I kind of given license to like, okay, like, this is kind of like my experiment in a way too, because I was like, Okay, well janica What's Ruby fine, like, you know, let's talk and like let's just kind of make her up as we go along. So there's, I don't have a very preconceived, perhaps I have an idea of where I want to go with the story, obviously, but like things like I want to wear a kimono. I'm like, That's brilliant. You know, I feel a lot of times, you know, you hire an actor, and they should be responsible for their character. They shouldn't just be a movable prop.

Jenica Bergere 46:37
Well, that to the point of micro budget, micro indie filmmaking is on a large budget with great artists who are being paid. their opinions are all a part of, and you don't have as much collaboration, but on an indie project. As far as being an actor. What was so awesome about uncom see me was Karen Landry, who played the mom just brought it like I was like, she needs to look like she has no teeth. How are we gonna do that? I mean, she contorted her face in such a way we put latex on her face to make her more wrinkled, and we just put this costume together and, and she was down, she was down and in that costume for four days in the car, like and then then there's Tani, who is wild and has an amazing body and, and I needed to access that use it. And she had like the most incredible wardrobe I've ever seen. And to to bring that stuff is different than having a high paid person who's bringing their artist artistic vision, which is not to take away from it because I've worked with some amazing customers. Oh, no, absolutely.

Alex Ferrari 47:47
Like I mean, if you're if you're working on a bigger budget film, but I can tell depending on the kind of story you're trying to tell him the kind of movie you're trying to make. You know, obviously if you want to win if you're gonna have an Oscar winner, Oscar winner, like I worked once with the the wardrobe stylist from Sex in the City. You know, she's amazing. I mean, she was amazing. And I worked with her for a week on a project and my God, I mean, she's a genius. You Patricia right? forgot her name. I Trisha field. Trisha Trisha Trisha fields. Yes, exactly. And she was wonderful. And I learned so much from working with her. And you know, but it was just like, you got you want to work with with the best of the best, like you want to hire an Oscar winning dp, you know, but on this movie, I'm lighting it purely because this is the kind of story I'm trying to tell. And things like that. So it's just really, it's just, it's just, it's, by the way, I don't know if you have this experience. But when you try to explain what you're doing to people, they look at you with a tilted head like you're crazy.

Jenica Bergere 48:45
And they also don't believe the price point. Like I want to say for 15 they're like, yeah, you can't do that. No, you can't.

Alex Ferrari 48:52
It's beyond. It's beyond their comprehension. It's not like Robert Rodriguez didn't make El Mariachi for $7,000. Like they just couldn't grasp that. Like that didn't make any sense. Like, you know, oh, how much did Paranormal Activity cost eight. That's not possible. Like they don't they don't get that. And in today's world more than even back then it's so much more possible to do it now. If you have the right people with the right skill set and the right equipment.

Jenica Bergere 49:16
Exactly. Well, when I would say one tip for micro budget filmmaking is get seasoned actors. Yeah. Seasoned, seasoned people who have worked on film or if not season, then willing. Willing to just show up.

Alex Ferrari 49:32
Well, there's two sides of the spectrum. They're, like really need to work with season if not just anybody who work anybody will just show up and be a body but it

Jenica Bergere 49:43
but it's but it's true. It's like they just have to be willing to want to like make some thing. There are a lot of people who are who are come out of school entitled, I have met so many at least actors who have like open I have a BFA, but I have an MFA and I'm like, boy That has nothing to do with auditioning. That has nothing to do with somebody else's project.

Alex Ferrari 50:06
It's why you know, I call that indie film hustle for a reason, you know, you have to hustle and yeah, and no amount of schooling or degrees means anything. It's all you know. Like I always tell people like, you know, Max Spielberg had he got he might get a meetings, and he might get some projects set up. But if he doesn't deliver the goods, you don't care what the last name is. True, true. You know, at the end of the day that might open the nepotism will open the doors for you, but it won't keep you there. You know? Yeah, that's my experience.

Jenica Bergere 50:39
Well, I've never had nepotism so I don't even know what they experience would be.

Alex Ferrari 50:44
Wouldn't it be nice that you get like a Yeah, I worked with your dad on that Oscar winning movie. Once you come in, let's talk about your project. It would be

Jenica Bergere 50:50
nice, I'm finding it's less and less on every set. I'm finding that with this generation with Kickstarter. And seed and spark and Indiegogo that there are less and less nepotistic artists and actually hungry people who have something they want to say and do. Absolutely. And that makes that's what's really cool. Um, I'm still afraid to put my foot in the ring for fundraising for a project. I'm still trying to do micro budget on a studio level. That's what

Alex Ferrari 51:24
we're trying to do with this this bag. Exactly. A micro budget, but it looks, it looks insane for the budget that that it is.

Jenica Bergere 51:33
Because you know how to shoot? Well, I

Alex Ferrari 51:35
hope, I hope when it's all said and done, everyone will agree with you. So, so I wanted to talk real quick about one of your most famous parts, which is The Drew Carey Show. Can you talk a little bit about that experience, because that must have been so much fun playing that character?

Jenica Bergere 51:52
Well, I have one great story. I mean, great, but one exciting story of my whole career. Um, they, I was I played as girlfriend chair in the handy woman, and they wanted to do an episode at the Cleveland Browns stadium. So we flew to Cleveland for The Drew Carey Show, which was not unusual for the members for the regular members on regular cast members on Drew Carey, because they film all those great dance opening sequences and stuff there. But it was exciting for me. And I had no idea what to expect. In Los Angeles. Oh, you're on The Drew Carey Show. Oh, you work in Warner Bros? Oh, yeah. In the traffic suck from Venice to pass Avenue. I mean, that's about the extent of the conversation and I remember not being able to be seen for a show that I was right for. Because the cast director civil Isn't she on The Drew Carey Show she she's fat, right? And I was, let me tell you, triple tinier than I am now at least 90 pounds less. I'm not in I'm not that's not an exaggeration. Okay. So that was my experience of being on the true Gary show in Los Angeles, step outside of Los Angeles, into Ohio. And it was like, I was Priscilla Presley.

Alex Ferrari 53:11
Oh, really? like Beyonce walked in.

Jenica Bergere 53:14
I had no idea. I had no idea what to expect. And they were saying, What's your alias at the hotel? And I was like, let's let's an alias, I'd like to get it. What's your name gonna be because they were so famous in Ohio. And I you don't experience that in Los Angeles. I'm a working actor. I mean, I was discovered at Ralph's when I was three years old. Yeah, it's just a part of the business where business? Yeah, so we walk up to the Cleveland Browns stadium for rehearsal. This is just a rehearsal day we weren't even shooting. And people are like, which is my characters share, like 1000 35,000 extra showed up? No. Or maybe it was 13,500. Maybe you have the numbers wrong, but it was not a damn people, over 10,000 people, over 10,000 people. And they were like, Sharon, I was like, Oh my god, this is the power of Syndicated Television. And you know what the great thing about drew is he never ever took it in. He never once thought on the shit. He never wants acted that way. To the day of the show ending. He wasn't quite sure if he was good enough to be Drew Carey. And in one way that was sad. In a way it was actually endearing and charming. And what made him special is because he really just did not have an ego. And he's that guy, that sort of lovable guy that you see on the show. So that was a cool experience. And then and then they nominated me for an Emmy for the tool belt dance striptease that I did. But the me the academy did not or what They are Motion Picture Association set. Thank you. They didn't recognize my my genius,

Alex Ferrari 55:05
obviously, obviously, I think you in Ruby have that in common.

Jenica Bergere 55:09
Well, I could draw from that. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 55:12
There's a line you're like I was nominated. But you know, that was rigged. I didn't believe

Jenica Bergere 55:20
what is probably came from that, actually, from that experience.

Alex Ferrari 55:23
I'm sure it did. I'm sure it did. So I know you're I know you're very pregnant. And I know that this is, you know, you've spent way too much time on the on the show already. So I'm going to ask you a few questions left. And, and then I'll let you go and rest. What is the advice you can give any aspiring standup or actor trying to break into the business?

Jenica Bergere 55:46
however you're going to do, what you have to say about your life, in your experience is the important part. So find the medium to do that, and gather a bunch of friends and tell it. If that means stand up, then gather a bunch of friends on the road, and go and tell your story. That means a TV show performance as a one person show, show or get people together to film it yourself. And same with the movie. That's my advice. Waiting for an agent or manager to discover you doesn't happen anymore. There's no discovery. There's no door You are the door essentially.

Alex Ferrari 56:26
Great advice. Very, very great advice. Now, what was the lesson actually,

Jenica Bergere 56:30
and let me go back, my father said if you want to go be an artist, because he was a jazz drummer, who, pretty much when he passed away, died penniless, being a jazz drummer. And he had worked with Charlie Parker and dizzy glassbeam cliver Brown and Dexter Gordon, and he basically died penniless. So he knew what an artist meant. And he said, Jen, if you want to be an artist, then go do it. Go discover all the arts enjoy paintings at museums. Go take dance class, go sing, go, go get on a set, go help. Go lift some lights. He said do it all don't just try to you know, be famous. So I love that he gave me that. That advice because I've had that attitude my whole career. I'm not just gonna I'm not gonna just do stand up and commercials I'm going to do standard commercials, television and film. And if they won't hire me, then I'm gonna make it

Alex Ferrari 57:29
because now you can. Now it's now it's it's much more accessible. Exact 30 years ago, you have to shoot 35 millimeter and it's gonna cost you $100,000 just as a cop on the set.

Jenica Bergere 57:41
Yeah. Now you can't.

Alex Ferrari 57:43
So what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn either in the in the business or in life?

Jenica Bergere 57:50
I think I'm still learning it. I think the lesson I'm still learning is that just that hard work doesn't necessarily pay off. But you could just do a great job and there's you still can't stand with your hat out. Because it doesn't matter. that hard work doesn't necessarily pay off hard work is just hard work. So go do what you love, and focus on your family. I guess that's the lesson I learned was probably why I keep having children because I'm invested in my relationship with my husband who seems to want to breed all the time. And at the end of the day, I know that having a family is most important for me. And, and and with having said that I still am not giving up on my dreams and my ideas of what I have to tell I've just incorporating it.

Alex Ferrari 58:43
Right, because at the end of the day when the spotlight fades, you know, and it fades on everyone. Everyone. The people that you've built around you and your family being the closest people to you is what's important. And that's something I've learned in the in the short time I've been around as well. Yeah, with my family, so it's, it's not always the ones to Oh, thank you so much.

Jenica Bergere 59:05
I think you also probably learned this too. It's better if your kids are cute.

Alex Ferrari 59:10
Well, there's Oh, that's well depends. You know, I they're gonna be there. My girls are a little too cute. and prayed about what's gonna happen when they get older. Well, that's

Jenica Bergere 59:19
a man thing.

Alex Ferrari 59:20
It's a completely man thing.

Jenica Bergere 59:23
As a woman on the on the playground, I'm like, my kids are cuter than yours.

Alex Ferrari 59:29
They are cute.

Jenica Bergere 59:30
I mean, that's the stand up of me. I'm like my fucking kids rock.

Alex Ferrari 59:35
So, um, what are the three? What are your three favorite films of all time, whichever films that kind of come to your mind right now.

Jenica Bergere 59:43
Well, I'm embarrassed but not embarrassed to say safety not guaranteed.

Alex Ferrari 59:47
That's a great movie.

Jenica Bergere 59:48
I just when the moment I read that script, I was like, I have to be in this movie. And I actually was testing for a series that same day and I kind of screwed up the test so that I could be there on time to audition. And even though I It was not lucrative to make that decision. I knew it was a special movie, just the script alone. I wanted to be in it. That's one of my favorite movies. Et. Okay. To this day, I recall waiting online to see it. Yep, yep. And on off of Van Nuys Boulevard at the theater there and then waiting again, to see it. And Breakfast Club. There's a little john Hughes in me. I know I won one. There's something about that. It's not all of his movies are great. But there was something about what he captured about all their relationships that I can't let go of. I mean, I still think back to that movie, at least once a day.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:45
But that movie is also it was made in the 80s. But it's completely relevant today.

Jenica Bergere 1:00:50
completely, totally, because of the relationships because of the characters and the

Alex Ferrari 1:00:54
archetypes. Like the archetypes, we all grew up with all those archetypes.

Jenica Bergere 1:00:58
Absolutely. And there's I mean, that in Ferris Bueller? Those are the, I would say are you know if I could make a movie be that good. If I could write a movie that good then I would feel like I arrived or I did something. It's still is like, you know, there are masterpieces in the world. Like out of Africa.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:20
Sure, you know, Blade Runner? Yeah, I

Jenica Bergere 1:01:23
mean, those are masterpieces. And, but that I as a actor and as an artist, I always refer back to those john Hughes movies.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:34
And they're they're the masterpieces of his genre. Exactly. Without without question. I real quick, I'm gonna ask you, did you get a chance to work with Mark duplass at all? Or Yeah, with with?

Jenica Bergere 1:01:45
I'm not I didn't work with him. No, I didn't actually he, um, he we didn't have any scenes together. Okay, but I got to work with him in the in terms of the press of the movie and going to Sundance and be with him. And he's really super cool. And I've gotten to speak with him and his producer Stephanie Lang Hoff a lot since Yeah, he's, he's, he is. He's somebody to look to. He's just great.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:14
Yeah, for everybody who doesn't? I've mentioned him on the show before but if you guys haven't heard, or haven't seen any of his work, uh, Mark duplass is kind of like an inspiration to all of us to all of us as indie filmmakers, but also like for non scripted and also even though he script he actually writes his movies but he completely throws the script out the window once he's on set is what I heard.

Jenica Bergere 1:02:37
Yeah, I mean he a lot of his movies are improvised. But they have an outline when but safety not guaranteed was not that it was not improvised. It was very it was written

Alex Ferrari 1:02:50
it was written written there was there any input me I'm sure anytime you with him, he has to improvise.

Jenica Bergere 1:02:54
Not in our scenes not in my stuff with Jake Johnson. Okay, improvised and they were very specific about the words they really it wasn't they weren't like saying don't improvise. It was just very clear. It was an improvised movie.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:08
Like say say your lines say the lines exactly as written.

Jenica Bergere 1:03:12
Yeah, I mean, nobody said say your lines exactly as they're written but you didn't come to the set going. This is going to be mumble core. And we're gonna see where this goes. Colin really knew what he wanted and so did Derek and they were working hand in hand to tell they had as you can see in the movie, they were very specific in the vision of what they wanted.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:32
And Mark is actually the one who helped get that movie made.

Jenica Bergere 1:03:35
It wouldn't have been made without mark. He was so they have a mutual agent or manager or something gave it to mark and they said Mark said if I'm the dude who's who puts out the ad the classified ad then I'll give you money. And he brought on big beach. That's Yeah, that's awesome.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:55
He helps a lot of indie filmmakers out he produces a lot Oh yeah,

Jenica Bergere 1:03:58
I mean, he produces so much I you know, I haven't used the Mark duplass card and I haven't even shown him come see me or I don't even know if he knows about it. But

Alex Ferrari 1:04:09
you should probably reach out to mark

Jenica Bergere 1:04:12
you know what so many people are reaching out to him and wanting so much from him. I did reach out to him about togetherness because I have a sister theme in my film that is very relevant to the TV show togetherness and I auditioned for it and he wrote back a very sweet email can't wait to see your tape. Bubba and I didn't get it so that was about the extent of me asking for his help but if there's a project I think he's also an incredible actor. So is his brother so I thought he was amazing and Hump Day I mean he blew my mind and Hump Day I learned that was

Alex Ferrari 1:04:48
your sister Sister. Yeah wonder I love them which

Jenica Bergere 1:04:51
and Lynn Shelton is like I haven't I we were in safety not guaranteed to and I didn't get to meet her cuz she wasn't at Sundance, but I'm a huge fan and for the very reason of it's similar to john Hughes in that there's a relationships that are archetypes that are amazing

Alex Ferrari 1:05:12
question Okay, now let me ask you where where can people find you?

Jenica Bergere 1:05:16
jenica versioner.com jenica share on Facebook jenica per share on Twitter janica per share on Instagram I made it real simple.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:26
Okay, so that's where everyone could find you. So

Jenica Bergere 1:05:28
I have about two followers. I know I'm

Alex Ferrari 1:05:32
followers up for you. We're doing the best we can.

Jenica Bergere 1:05:35
Alex Ferrari and Jill-Michele Meleán those are my followers.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:45
Thank you so much for taking the time I really appreciate it and I cannot wait to show you the scenes of editing your scene and show you the final movie when it's all said and done. Thank you for so much for being a part of it.

Jenica Bergere 1:05:54
Has any guest ever said I love you?

Alex Ferrari 1:05:57
No you'd be the first

Jenica Bergere 1:05:59
I love you.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:00
Thank you so much love you too. As you can tell jenica and I had a lot of fun not only in this interview but you can only imagine the kind of fun we had shooting her scenes in this is mag with Julie it's the pretty hilarious I can't tell you I've been editing them. Recently actually, just yesterday, I was editing that whole scene. Parts of her scenes and I was I was on the floor. It's really really funny and, and really real. And in this movie jenica is fearless. And when I say fearless, you'll have to watch the movie to understand how fearless of a woman and of an actress she really is. So from the bottom of my heart genic I say thank you so much for bringing your amazing energy to this is Meg. And guys don't forget the please check out the indie film syndicate, which is my indie film, kind of hub membership community where you can get access to all of our online courses, as well as exclusive access to how we're making this is mag it's kind of called micro budget film masterclass. So it's pretty amazing. And I I really love you guys take a look at it. It's an indie film syndicate calm. And if you want to donate to the this is Meg, a campaign you can and get discounts on getting into the membership. And we've already started uploading a ton of stuff of what we've been doing. And I'll continue to upload monthly as we go from soup to nuts all the way from how we made how we got the LLC formed all the way to how we how we're distributing the movie, either self distributing it or getting it distributed by a major distributor so that check that out indie film, syndicate calm. And as always head over to filmmaking podcast.com and leave us a great review. Hopefully, for the show. It really helps us out a lot. So guys, thank you so much for listening. I hope you got a lot out of this episode. And keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive. And I'll talk to you soon.