IFH 815: Lessons in Filmmaking, Failure, and Persistence with Greg Travis

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:54
My guest has worked with some of the best directors ever, including David Lynch, Paul Verhoeven and Milos Forman. My latest guest. Latest movie, excuse me, is which, in which he directed, was actually shot in 1984 and it's finally being released now. Think about that. He started filming this when I was born. It just shows you have to be in the long haul. It really does. And that movie, dark seductions, will be out October 11 on VOD and MOD with guest, Greg Travis. Hey, Greg thanks for coming on the show, buddy.

Greg Travis 2:26
My pleasure, Dave, my pleasure. Anytime I can talk to a fellow filmmaker, I'm down.

Dave Bullis 2:33
Well, you know, I appreciate it, Greg, you know I looked at your IMDB watch I knew of you before I looked at your IMDB, because I recognize you from a couple of different roles. And, you know, before I start talking about that, and we were getting all your, you know, your your very lengthy IMDb with some very impressive credits, my I just want to start off by asking about your background, and that is, I just want to ask, how did you get started in the film industry, you know, did you always want to act as when you were a kid, you know? So it's pretty much, I just want to know is, you know, how did you get started?

Greg Travis 3:06
Well, I was in high school, I got a Super Eight camera, started using my dad's home movie camera, and then I got one of the the sound cameras, and so I started making these little short, super eight films my junior year. And then my high school year, I actually made a feature length Super Eight movie called Joe dynamite, and I showed it at the high school theater, and I was able to get the theater for free, and, you know, work things out to where actually made my money back and actually made a little profit on the whole venture. And I thought, wow, this is easy. I can do this. Little did I know what I was in for? You know, then I came out to Hollywood and went to film school. And while I was going to film school, I started auditioning at the comedy clubs, and then kind of got a stand up career going, and got a few TV shows and started working the clubs and and I did that for about 20 years, and then I moved into the acting direction in the mid 90s and got a few big movies, and then that kind of helped launch my acting career. And did about 45 films in the last 15 years or so. And now I'm on my third act and trying to get back to what I originally wanted to do here, which was be a director and a filmmaker. And, you know, I mean, I've written all these years, and I've made a lot of shorts all these years, but in the last eight or nine years, I've really tried to focus in and, you know, make some movies. So I've got three features, night creep, mid life, and now dark seduction, that are finished features and that are getting out there. And dark seduction is being released October 11 on VOD, North America, VOD and pay per view. And so I'm super excited about that, because it took me about 30 years to complete that. Movie, which I'm not bragging about. It's kind of embarrassing to be honest with you, because it should have been finished, you know, at least 20 years ago, but I ran up into ran to a lot of obstacles and a lot of problems with this particular film that, you know, stopped me from finishing it. Every time I would go back to try to finish it, something horrific would happen and just stop me in my tracks, or or sometimes I'd run out of money and I'd have to, you know, regroup, you know. So it seemed to be an ongoing pattern in the process of the whole post production thing. But, you know, it, it's one of those things you just, you know, you try what you can, and then when I got back to it, the final time, I was able to get everything back and and finally finish it up. So I'm really happy about that.

Dave Bullis 5:59
Yeah, you know, Greg, I understand completely where you're coming from, about projects, you know, stalling out and having issues. You know, I've been there before. You know, whether you know it's, it's, you know, different you know, personalities you know, not agreeing on set, or different producers you know, not agreeing. You know, or even you know sometimes, I mean, for instance, Greg, I had, one time I had an editor who, every time I asked to see a kind of the movie, he would say, oh, yeah, you know, it's don't going well, this or that. I'd say, Well, I'm gonna go. I want to come up and see a cut of it. And he would always have an excuse. Finally, he don't, he have to admit. He's like, listen, I I've been working on it at all. I'm he's like, you know, I'm sorry, yeah, so I understand completely what you mean. But, you know, I do want to talk more about dark seduction, but, you know, I would be, you know, I again, you have such an extensive IMDb resume, I just want to sort of take a step back and talk about some of your credits. I mean, you have worked with some of the best directors, you know, not only going today, but some of the directors that have you know ever, ever lived. I mean, you've worked with David Lynch, Paul Verhoeven. You've worked with bobcat, Goldthwait.

Greg Travis 7:09
You did five easy pieces, a lot of Jack Nicholson films. Yeah, that was a thrill to work with him. And the Milo foreman, who did the Andy Kaufman movie, man on the moon. And yeah, I was lucky in the fact that of being a filmmaker and an actor, I had studied films all of my life, and was a huge movie goer when I was a kid. So I had seen just about everything, any all these guys had done, especially when they came out on video. I rented everything. And my friend in New York had a video store so I could watch anything that was available. And so, you know, I've always studied film and always loved it. And so it when I would meet these directors and go in for the final audition, I would start talking to them about their obscure movie, the one movie that no one knew about. That's the one I would talk to them about they love that, you know, they absolutely love that because, like, they don't get a chance to discuss it. So it was, like, you know, kind of the inside scoop on some of their obscure films I would like talk to them about, you know. But David was great. I didn't really have too much to say. He was in the middle of shooting, and the cast director brought me over to him, and, you know, he just said, great, you're right. This is great. You look great, and it'll be perfect. And so that was about it. So, you know, I got lucky on that one, and he was a whole lot of fun to work with. He's really detailed oriented. He put the blood on my face himself, and he, you know, he was, like, really had ideas about every little movement and every little thing, and it was all very well planned out and very well thought out. You know, he knew what he wanted and or, you know, you never know exactly what you want. I mean, you got an idea, a concept of the scene and how it should go, and you try to explain it to the actors, and then you just hope for the best. And that's basically what every director does. And then you tweak it as you go along. He said, Well, maybe you don't, you know, you don't scream that much here, maybe you bring it down a little bit there. Maybe you don't hit him with the gun there, you know, that kind of thing, you know, so but, yeah, I'd always been a dead matter of fact, Eraserhead was kind of the first midnight movie that I saw when I came out here. And it just disturbed, disturbed me to no end. I just didn't quite understand it. And but I felt, I mean, it felt, it, I felt there was something really going on here, but I didn't quite, you know, I didn't understand what was happening. But it, it moved me. I'll put it that way,

Dave Bullis 9:51
You know, it's funny, because I took somebody to see Lost Highway and and he had never seen it before. And when he left the theater, he goes, you know, Dave, he goes that movie. I'm not sure what was happening, but he goes, I'm very interested. And he said, you know, a couple days later on, he texted me, and he goes, You know, I'm still thinking about Lost Highway,

Greg Travis 10:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had some really fun stuff in it, and some really creepy stuff too, you know, I always thought as if it is a revenge dream, you know, by the Bill Pullman character. And, you know, that's sort of, I think what it was, you know, he becomes this young guy in his dream and gets revenge on that the older guys who messed him up with his girlfriend, you know, or his wife. So at least, that's kind of the way I take it. And then he did that same sort of thing in his next movie that was going to be the TV show that got so many awards. What the hell's the name of it? Omaha? Drive, yeah, he did the same kind of thing, only with women. It was the same sort of, like switching characters and, you know, becoming another person kind of a thing, you know.

Dave Bullis 11:21
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's funny because you now, you know when we saw him, I when, when he, you know he was actually there, and he introduced twin or, sorry, he introduced Lost Highway, and he said, and people were asking, are you working on anything else? And he said, No. And at about a couple days later, he announces that he's back with Twin Peaks Season Three on Showtime. So really, yeah, it was just, I was like, wow, if he had only, you know, but, but it was just amazing. You know, I've just a funny little story. Real quick. I actually tried to get him on for 100th episode on this podcast. And I actually missed him by a couple of, I guess maybe a couple days. His is manager actually said that he's off shooting season three at Twin Peaks. And he's like, you know, he's all he's all he's doing right now, so maybe when he comes back, but I was like, you know, I mean, that guy, I mean, he's just, you know, phenomenal. I mean, but you know, so when I wanted to ask Greg, is, you know, when you're working with somebody, you know, like Lynch, or you're working with somebody like Paul van Hoven, you know, what are some of the biggest takeaways that you think you've had is, do you think there's something that there's there's like one constant that you know, sort of, maybe a strength that all these directors share that makes them, you know who they are.

Greg Travis 12:30
Well, they all have a kind of definite look that they're trying to achieve with the film itself, the way they shoot it, the way they you know, are going to cut it. The hardest thing, I think, for any director, is to get a mood, a certain type of tone that can carry through the throughout the film. I think David Lynch, that's one of his strengths. He really knows how to set a tone, a dark, ominous, kind of creepy tone to the thing, and keep that, you know? I mean, it's not constantly throughout the film, but it's still there. And, boy, he's really great at that. And every other director has their strength. Like Verhoeven is a kind of a very strong just in your face, imagery that just really sticks with you and really hit you in the chest, you know, very entertaining, very fun, and just keeps coming at you, you know. And I love that kind of stuff. I love, you know, strong imagery and strong choices. And you know, as an actor, when you work with these kind of guys, you just have to, kind of like go with your confidence and come in with the strongest ideas that you can think of, and just you know, know that that's right, and not worry about exactly what you think they want, but within the script and with what you think it it needs, that's what you give them, and they'll let you know If it's not what they want or if they want to tweak it. But most of the time, they really liked what I did, and they were very happy with it. So I was really lucky to to be able to work with those guys, you know,

Dave Bullis 14:12
Yeah, you know, Greg, that was actually going to be my next question was, you know, as an actor, you know, you know what, what is sort of like, you know what you're you're bringing, you know, obviously, you're bringing, you know, your own unique skills and talents to the role. And you know, they, you know, they're, they're directing you, obviously, in this, in this particular role. And so one of my question was, is, what are some of the biggest takeaways that they when you're working with them, that that you have used in your own projects, you know, I sort of like something that you've learned from, you know, Zack Snyder or Verhoeven. You know that you and Rob Zombie, you know something that you've taken and sort of put in your own films.

Greg Travis 14:52
They all do different things. Like Zack Snyder does various speed takes, where he'll do a shot. You know, 20 times, and he'll do it a little bit differently each time. And I think that's kind of interesting. I haven't been able to use that exactly, but I like the idea of doing a little different each time. Instead of trying to do it the same way each time, he does it a little differently each time. And I think I've heard that Ridley Scott does that same kind of thing. He'll move the camera an inch or two over with each progressive take, so that he gets a little bit different angle and a little bit different look, you know. And I thought that's pretty, pretty cool. You know, the the film, The last film that I, you know, shot and put out there was midlife, which was a very Cassavetes type of a look. I shot at long lens. And then the wide shots were like a 40 millimeter. So it was kind of a wide, and that's what I was going for. Was a very tight, kind of very realistic Cassavetes type of look. And so that's kind of what I was trying to capture. And so I would go back and study all of his films and see what he was doing exactly, and they're all a little different, and they're all shot a little different. There is no one Cassavetes look, but he does do long lens close ups and pretty tight close ups when he does them. And so I use that technique. And you know, you just learn, you just pick up different directorial techniques from working with all these different directors. And then also what you know, working as a director for many, many, many short films and theater and all kinds of different things in my own shows and stand up, because in stand up, you're really directing yourself, you know, I mean, you're really sort of like jumping out of your skin and saying, Well, this look like, and what would that look like? And you kind of have to have a second nature about what would make an audience laugh or what would make an audience cry. And you develop those skills as you go along, and I think that I've been able to do that, and now I'm ready to really apply all that knowledge to making movies, you know, you know,

Dave Bullis 17:13
That's good point, Greg, and you know, that's actually what I wanted to sort of segue into right now was, you know, just looking at your IMDB page. You know you've you've written five pieces, and you know you've directed for and I just want to ask, you know the your first you know IMDb credit you know that you have is night creep. And I want to ask, you know you made this in 2003 it was also written by you. So I wanted to ask Greg, now you've said in the intro that you want to, sort of want to go back to this, because this, this is why you, you got into this. Was you, I wanted to make your own films, right? So was it, was it the right sort of time and place, so to speak, to make night creep? What I mean by it, that is, did you sort of have the, like, a, sort of, like a small window, or maybe an opportunity at that point,

Greg Travis 18:00
I hooked up with this, you know, this guy who was gonna invest in it, he was gonna, you know, put the money. And so I wrote a pretty I wrote a script. It was what I thought was pretty commercial, and actually wasn't very commercial at all, but I kind of wrote a psychological horror film in a very kind of Lynchian David Lynch in kind of way to where we don't really know what's going on half the movie, and we're waiting to find out. But at least in my movie, I do let the cat out of the bag at the end of the film, and I do explain somewhat what was happening, even though there's a few things left in the air, I suppose, to David Lynch, who doesn't ever explain anything, and you're just like, left walking out of the theater on what the fuck was that all about? But you know, you have to study his films, and then, you know, kind of come to some conclusions on your own. But that's what makes them fun, you know, but, yeah, I just had, I had a window of opportunity, and then, of course, that investor pulled out at the last minute, and then I had to scurry around with some of my own money. And so a few other people that I knew put a little money into it, and then we were able to kind of pull it together and do it. But, you know, I had made dark seduction back in their mid 80s. And I actually felt really, really confident at that time, because I'd been doing a lot of shorts leading up to that, and I had a very specific look. And the partner that I was working with shot it, and he understood what we were going for. And so the look of dark seduction, I was pretty much satisfied with. I mean, there's a lot you could go back and say, well, I could have done this, I could have done that, but I, for the most part, I got what I was trying to get, you know, and there's always things you could have done better. And some of the shots we did were out of focus and didn't come out, which was a shame. But you just, you know, you work with what you got and and so then all that time, I would go, you know, be thinking that I was going to come back and finish dark seduction. And then after that, that would lead to another film. So when I made night creep, I just gotten to the place where I just had do something else. And I couldn't depend on, you know, finishing dark seduction. For that one, I just had to, you know, start from scratch and do something new. And so it has some of the similar themes running through it. There's some lesbianism, and there's some, you know, kind of like creepiness that similar to Dark seduction, in a way, but it's not about vampires or anything. It's about a creepy landlord that comes into this girl's room at night while she's sleeping, and we don't know if it's a dream or if it's reality or exactly what's going on, because she takes a drug, and so we think the night creep drug might be causing her to have these hallucinations. And so that's part of the plot, but it came out pretty good. It's a lot of fun, you know, and but dark seduction is the one that really everybody seems to be responding to the premiere. Was a huge success, and the audience loved it, and everybody's really, really excited about it, and, you know, they really, really like it. So it's kind of a weird hybrid of a 1940s detective film and an 80s lesbian vampire film, and we're not sure if the vampires are really vampires or if they're just badass chicks that think they're vampires and go around doing these things. And so there's that mystery, and there's that angle of it, and you know, it's just really odd, kind of weird, little cool cult movie that, you know, took me forever to finish, but I'm glad I did, because the technology has gotten so much better now it made it so much it's now it's much slicker, and the sound and The music and everything about it is much better now having finished it this past year than it would have been if I would have finished it 20 years ago or 30 years ago, you know,

Dave Bullis 22:30
Yeah, you know, Greg, that was, actually, was going to ask you also was, you know, since you started making that in the 80s, you know, like you said, you started that in the 80s, you know, the camera technology has, you know, Just, you know, gone through so many evolutions, you know. You know, now you can, you can go out now, and you know, our phone is a camera now. Also, you know, there's cameras out that cost as much as a house, you know. And it's amazing this, this amount of technology. So wanted to ask, you know, did you, you know, use any of the of the new cameras sections to sort of put, maybe shoot some new scenes, or

Greg Travis 23:02
No, I shot everything, everything we shot. I did an 8485 on 16 millimeter black and white, and when I did a 2k transfer from the negative, it really, really, I mean, it's a little grainy. I mean, it's, you know, it's grainy in certain areas, but it really looks fantastic. The 2k transfer just brought out all the imagery and brought out all the little details. And I couldn't have asked for a better quality, you know, print of it, it's much better than if I'd have made a film print, because we have more control with the digital transfer, you know. And it is sharper than a film print. I mean, it is a little bit sharper. So I got everything, you know. And unfortunately, the the negative had been sitting around for a long time. So there, even though they cleaned it a couple of times and we had it sonically cleaned, there's still a little dust here and there that was embedded in the negative so, you know, it gives it kind of an old, you know, TCM, you know, little bit of an old quality that, you know, kind of makes it even cooler, you know. I mean, nobody's complained about the little specs that are on a few of the scenes or, you know, that pop up from time to time. But it kind of gives it an old feel to it, which is kind of neat too, you know,

Dave Bullis 24:26
Yeah, you know Greg, when I think I either I saw still, I believe, watch the trailer also, it kind of reminds me of Dark City, in a way, because you said it was like a 1940s you know, detectives, with the 1980s it reminds me, I don't have you ever seen the film Dark City, but in a way, It reminds me a little bit of that film

Greg Travis 24:42
Was that a color film, though, was dark city of color, like the Canadian film.

Dave Bullis 24:48
Yeah, it was, I think Val Kilmer or no, probably was about, come on, but I'm, I forget, actually, who was in it,

Greg Travis 24:56
And it was at a lot of strip joint scenes. He was like a bouncer. And. Strip joint or something. Was that the one you're talking about Dark City?

Dave Bullis 25:04
Yeah, it was by it was directed by Alex yes, I think it's

Greg Travis 25:11
There might be one I'm confusing it with, but yeah, it's definitely a dark noir, you know, and that's kind of what I'm going for with this, you know, that that 40s more that, like, had the tough, you know, square jaw detective that was drinking and smoking all the way through the film. I kind of a Bogart type character, but a little bit more, little bit more tougher and bigger and, you know, able to take a little bit more punishment than even Bogart. So I found this actor, comedian named Tyler horn, who was perfect for the role. And so I just didn't even have a casting session. I just asked him if he wanted to do it, because I knew he'd be great in it. And he really is funny. He's he's quite a perfect kind of Dick Tracy looking character. So it worked out really well.

Dave Bullis 26:06
So Greg, you know, coming from an acting background, do you feel that, you know, that was sort of like, sort of your unfair advantage, because that was your biggest strength, because you, you know, you've worked with all these directors, you also your cell phone is an are an actor, so you're able to sort of, you know, talk to these actors, maybe you understand them in a different way that maybe most directors don't. If you know, if you know what I mean?

Greg Travis 26:28
Well, you know, part of it is the casting of the actor, and then, you know, sometimes you get into a situation where, you know, you've got really good improv actors, and you would be an idiot not to let them improvise. And some directors are not, you know, savvy to that. They want to stick to the script per verbatim, and they don't know when to expand their idea and to take advantage of a talented improvise, of a talented actor who can improvise, and even if you don't use it in the film, sometimes you just go, you just let it happen, and you like play with the ideas. And I think improvisation is a really good technique, because you've got the idea in the script, you know where you're going with it. You know, let them play with the lines a little bit. As long as the information you need to drive the plot is in there, then you can, like, you know, you can go off script a little bit and play with the ideas, and you never know. You might just use one of those lines in the editing, or you might use a couple little of those bits. And a lot of times it's better than what you had in mind in the script, because you can't always imagine it until you get there. And then when you get there and you see what you've got to work with. Go ahead and work with it. Go ahead and expand the idea, you know, and explore it a little bit. I mean, I think that's the key to really good filmmaking, is to explore the ideas once you get there, you know.

Dave Bullis 27:56
Yeah, I concur, Greg, you know, the more I study in the more you know, I apply these things, the more I find, especially in my writing, you know, the more you expand and explore and stay curious about these ideas, yeah, you know, the more they're able to flow,

Greg Travis 28:12
Yeah, and it's, it's, you know, it's tricky, because I did a lot of improv in midlife, and the first Cut of it was, like two and a half hours long. And I thought, you know, that was a pretty good cut, but I was wrong. I ended up taking like, 40 minutes out of it and kept whittling it down until I got it where it was at its basic essence, and it was just what I needed, but not too much. It was just enough to tell the story. And that's what you try to go for, is just the essence of what you need to tell the story. You know, people like, you know, there's a lot of directors who get a little indulgent, and I think the big trick is not to let the line of tension go. You know, that's the most important thing in a film. If you look at all the classics and all the Orson Welles films, he was very adamant about keeping the line of tension in there, you know, which is driving the story and also keeping the audience interested as to what's going to happen at the end of this story, what's going to happen to these characters, you know. But when you lose that, and you veer off and you go into different places for a long period of time that don't have anything to do with the story. It can really derail the train. He can really throw you off, and can throw your audience off. So you really have to keep that in mind. The line of tension, I think, is the most important thing, whether it's a comedy or drama or whatever kind of movie you're making, you really want to keep the audience interested in what's going to happen at the end. You know.

Dave Bullis 30:02
Yeah, I was listening to an interview by Lawrence block, who did a walk along the tombstones. He wrote that, and he was, you know, saying the same thing about, you know, having that tension in there, because you don't want audiences going in, going, Well, hey, I know this guy's not going to die because, you know, you know, so of, because of, you know, X, Y and Z, and I know this thing's going to happen. You know what I mean? And I think that's where, you know. I think a lot of people sort of, you know, because people who usually, you know, go to movies, you know, they've seen other movies before in the same genre, you know what I mean. They've seen, you know, action movies. That's why, when a die hard comes around, it just blows people out of the water, because they're going, Holy crap. You know, this is this guy's this John McClane, he's bleeding. He doesn't know what's going on. He's injured. He doesn't, you know, he's not just walking in the room with a machine gun clearing out the whole room, right? You know, they really, he really had to, you know, dissect what was going on and do this sort of, very, very, you know, cerebral, that's human word, cerebral, but you know, he had to go in there and, you know, sort of deduce, you know, and sort of use a surgeon scalpel, and then, you know, that's why I think, you know, Die Hard is such a, you know, a unique move in its own right.

Greg Travis 31:08
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, when it came out, it was just, he was outnumbered, and the situation, the conflict of the situation, was fresh and new. You know, we hadn't seen anything like that, you know, in a building where you're stuck in the crawl spaces and you've got to maneuver your way and try to find a way to get rid of these guys. And, yeah, it was a great little scripted piece, you know. And it was very well executed on the direction too, because the the other cops didn't know what was going on, and they weren't taking it seriously. You know, these guys were. We knew as an audience member, these guys are super bad, and you better take them seriously. Are you going to get you're in for a big surprise. And so we knew that as an audience, but you know, within the film, they didn't know that. And so that was kind of an interesting angle on it as well. And there's also those kinds of things. As an audience, you tell the audience certain things, but the characters don't know. Like in dark seduction, we know as an audience how we got bit, but he doesn't figure it out until well into the film, you know, because he just can't remember, and it's not clear to him, and he's not sure what's going on and but it's a comedy. I mean, it's a it's more of a comedy parody of a 1940s detective film than it is anything else. But I tried to make it its own unique movie by combining it with an 80s vampire feel. So it's like a time shift, if that makes any sense, there's like two different time periods going on at the same time. So it's kind of weird that way, you know.

Dave Bullis 32:45
Well, you know, great. I know, as we talk about dogs, dark seduction, I you know, I want to ask, you know, your writing style, you know, and your writing process, you know what? So when you're going to sit down and you know whether you use a notebook or whether you, you know, write this on a computer, I want to ask, you know, what is your process? I mean, you sort of already, you know how you I'm sure you already have an idea in mind, but you outline it heavily. Or do you just, you know, sort of let it flow naturally.

Greg Travis 33:09
Yeah, when I'm writing a feature, I do a three act outline, and I try to outline each scene with a number, and I go through the whole thing and try to get an outline. Because when you're when you're scripting it, if you can at least put a few lines of dialog in that paragraph that you've outlined that scene with, it gives you a jumping off place, and you know where you're going next. And then, of course, you change things as you go along. And not all outlines, not all scenes in the outline, are going to make it into the script. And then you come up with new stuff as you go along, too, but at least it gives you sort of a place to start with. And I just wrote a little short film, and I just kind of, you know, did it in a week, and just kind of chipped away at it, like a page, page and a half a day until I got it all done, like, you know, 13, 14, pages, and then I sent it to some few people, got some feedback, did another draft of it, and now I think it's in pretty good shape. And so I think, you know, you think about these things for a while. You kind of like, get a beginning, a middle and an end, and think about, you know, okay, you need this scene, you needed that scene. And I didn't outline that particular short film. I just actually just scripted it from just what I had in mind. So it's a little different with each project, but I think on a full feature, it's really good to do a detailed outline of the whole thing first. And I learned that from working with, I used to write with Rick Overton. We were writing partners back in the 80s. We wrote some scripts for studios and a bunch of screenplays for independence and whatnot. And I learned that technique from James Keach and Brian Grazer, who were the producers we were working with in the early days. And so I. That's one of the things they like to do. And I think it works pretty well, you know,

Dave Bullis 35:07
Yeah, it's worked pretty well for especially Brian Grazer, right?

Greg Travis 35:10
Yeah. Well, it just gives you an overview of the movie. It's like, okay, now I can kind of see what kind of movie were, you know, we're trying to do here. Before you write the script, you kind of have an idea of how it's all going to go down. And a lot of a lot of writers say they just jump right into it, and they just write, write, write, and they don't even worry about the three act structure. But their scripts definitely fall short and kind of fall flat because of that. I've read a ton of scripts, and you know, if you don't have that three act structure in there, it's, it's, really can be quite problematic. You know, not that everything has to have that, or that it should have that. I mean, with mid life, the three act structure was sort of hidden, and it was not exactly the way it should be, but it was still there, you know, was still there. And I think that's a good thing to have consciously when you approach an idea, because if it's not there, you're really on shaky ground. You're on shaky territory. And by that three act structure, I mean, like certain things have to happen to your lead character. You know, certain beats and certain things, obstacles and the conflict test increase, and, you know, all those types of things that are script structure, you know,

Dave Bullis 36:33
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, that's something I've talked to before, especially with Alan watt from Ellie Raiders lab. You know, we talked about, you know, what the three act structure is supposed to be. And, you know, even, even different systems that you see, like save the cat, you know, really, what they're trying to do is it, you know, not only is it trying to guide a transformation, but it's also, you know, trying to just make sure that you're always amping it up, yeah, so that way, you know, you don't, sort of, you know, on page 15, you know, you have some kind of climax, and the rest of the movie, you just, sort of, you know, just meandering. It's sort of, right, you know, just trying to give you know, just trying to give you, like, a blueprint of where to go, right?

Greg Travis 37:01
And he's an expert at that much more than I am. But the the upping, the Andy on the conflict is an important element to keep in there so that the the stakes get higher as you go along. You know, absolutely and that can apply to any kind of story, you know, whether you're doing something about a little kid or, you know, whatever it is, the stakes keep getting higher and the conflict keeps getting more and more intense, you know. So that's what keeps the line of tension in place and keeps the audience wondered what's going to happen next. Oh, my God. You know, it can't get any worse. You know, especially in horror movies, that's a very prevalent technique to use. You know, when the girls trapped in a castle, and she just keeps one bad thing happens after another, and you know, what's, you know, what's the next bad thing that's going to happen? You know, it's like a horrific thing that's going to happen. It just keeps getting worse and worse. But yeah, yeah. So you know, knowing all of this, you know, and learning all of these things throughout the years as both a writer, actor and filmmaker is just gives you more ammunition, gives you more confidence going into a project. And you know, films are tricky propositions. You know, they're just not a guarantee that they're going to work, even if you have a good script, even if you, you know, have just thought about it and you've got it all worked out, and you shoot it perfectly. I mean, when people went to see the shining. They were walking out on it. They didn't like it, you know, one like the book. Everybody was expecting, you know, Stanley to do the book, and he didn't. And it just kind of, you know, it didn't really shock you or scare you that much. It had a few scares in it, but not really that scary. But it took years for that film to sort of find its audience and find its place in the horror world. And now it's considered to be one of the best horror movies ever made. But believe me, when it came out in 1980 nobody knew what to make of it. They were just like, Oh, that was weird, you know, they didn't know how great it was. In other words, what I'm trying to say, and a lot of his movies are like that. They take time to kind of find their audience and to kind of become, you know, as great as they really are. But I don't know how he was able to do that, but somehow he did what he was. Films are weird. I mean, you don't always get it the first viewing, you know. And then there's all different ways. If you view something by yourself on television, it doesn't always hit you, but when you see it with an audience in a theater, oh, my God, it becomes a whole different thing, you know.

Dave Bullis 39:54
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean, like with that, because, you know, I've had that, that. Happened to me with certain movies. You know, it's sort of like the shared, the shared experience in the theater, and then I, you know, you sure you try to watch it at home later on, you like it didn't hit the same way, or even vice versa, you know, it's just, it very, it's very interesting. And even David Lynch had said something about this. He said, You know, don't watch movies on your phone. Yeah, yes. I don't know why people are trying to watch movies on their phone.

Greg Travis 40:31
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's a certain mood, it's a certain excitement that goes along with seeing it on the big screen. You can see everything that the movie has to offer on the big screen, and it's the shared experience that makes it much more elevated and much more of an experience altogether. And yeah, I was real tickled being able to show some of my films to a full packed theater and see the true reactions. And it's amazing. You know, some of the things that I've seen 1000 times, and didn't think were that funny, get big laughs, and you're just going, what was that all about? I didn't think that would get a laugh, but it does. You just never know. You just never know about, you know, certain things in your own movie that you think, you don't even think about them, you know, and then all of a sudden people are reacting to it, and it's just amazing, you know, just constantly surprising,

Dave Bullis 41:27
Yeah, you know, very true. You know, it's, you know, it's so all these things are come become very subjective, you know, they sort of, you know, some things hit, some things don't, later on, and then vice versa.

Greg Travis 41:37
Problem with sending your movie to a distributor online, on a file is like, you know, how is this guy going to watch this thing? Is he going to watch it while he's, you know, on his laptop, on the bus, on the way home? Is he going to watch it on his phone, or is he going to put it on the big screen when he gets home and sit back with some friends and watch it, you know? I mean, they say they you know, then I don't think anybody can really watch a film by themselves on a small device and really have a good response to it. You know, nothing looks as good on a small device by yourself. I don't care who you are, you know, you're not going to respond to it as much as if you said it with a few other people, because you're you're focusing more on the movie, on watching the movie with other people in the room. Then you are by yourself. You get distracted. You put it down, you stop it for a while. That's not the way a movie supposed to be. It's a book. It's a it's a one thing. It's a one time. You got to go from A to Z with it. You know?

Dave Bullis 42:41
Yeah, yeah. I want to ask, you know, since the you know, your movie, dark section, comes out this today, as you know, this podcast is being released. You know, Greg, where can people find dark seduction?

Greg Travis 42:52
It is going to be on Pay Per View, movie on demand. You can order the DVD on Amazon. I think it's going to be on iTunes and all of the Pay Per View cable outlets in North America and and just, you know, look it up online, dark seduction, pay per view or dark seduction, VOD video on demand in your area. So it's going to be on cable outlets and video on demand outlets, and that's about all I can tell you. I mean, it's going to be done so many of them, I don't know all the listings, you know, but it should be available, you know, Amazon, iTunes, and all the cable pay per views. So we will should be able to find it pretty easily.

Dave Bullis 43:45
And for everyone listening, I'm gonna make sure to link to that in the show notes as soon as I can find a, you know, they where I can sort of send you to, like, maybe even Amazon, or even an Xbox, or all of them. So that way I'll, so I'll put a few links in the show notes. Okay, you know Greg, Greg, as we're talking I have some Twitter questions that came in. Would you mind answering one or two? My first question is, what do you recommend for a first time filmmaker in directing actors?

Greg Travis 44:15
That seems to be a tough thing. I think a first time director might do himself a big favor by maybe taking an acting class guys that are coming more from a script or an editing position, and then moving up to directing their own things. Might might consider taking an acting class just to get an idea of watching the teacher direct actors and watching the actors work out a scene and rehearse a scene, and how it's all supposed to go down. Because in actuality, there's a camera rehearsal with the actors rehearsal. Sometimes there's a couple of actors rehearsals before the camera. Comes in so that you can kind of find the choreography and find the way you want to do it. And then the camera guy comes in and starts seeing how he can shoot the scene, along with the actors rehearsing it. And then you break for makeup and touch ups and whatever else you need to do. And then you come back and you're ready to go, and then you shoot it. But, you know, reading books about acting, and it's a little over complicated. I mean, there's this whole methodology that, you know, there's different branches of the method, and all of that is well and good, but that's usually the actors responsibility to take that on and learn that and use that as his own technique and part of his craft to get where he needs to be for imaginary scene, you know. And so directing actors in that, you know, if they need a little time to cry, if they need a little time to get into a certain head space, an intensity or something, you give them that time, as long as it's not too long a time, give them a little, you know, a minute or so to do what they need to do to get there, and You're better served. Sometimes, that's what it is. Sometimes, tell sometimes actors are, you know, in character, and they stay in character, and so there's that to consider. Sometimes they're in a certain mood that will help them create the character and the mood that they're trying to achieve. And so you can't you kind of have to kind of watch out for that sometimes, and, you know, and then some actors, you know, just drop it the minute the UL cut, and they're themselves again, and then they jump back into character, you know, when the cameras roll. So there's all kinds of different ways that actors approach it, and you just have to be aware of all of that as a director. But basically, you know, you've got to know when somebody hits a sour note, and if a line reading is not very good, you you really have to be able to tell that and tell the actor how you want to adjust it, not doing a line reading for the actor, but go, let's try that a little quicker, or try it a little different way. It just seemed kind of falling. It didn't sound real, or, you know, something to that nature where they, you know, they get an idea, but you're not insulting in them at the same time. Because you want to be really nice to your actors. You don't want to be mean to them at all, because then they get upset and they get nervous and they they don't perform as well.

Dave Bullis 47:47
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, just one thing that someone once told me to it really helped me out when I was, you know, making my my student film was, and it's something you touched on Greg, which it reminded me of, was trying things a little bit differently, and it's sort of when he his mistake was, the guy give me advice was, when he made a student film, he would do every take exactly the same way. So every act, every performance, was the exact same way, lighting same way, camera same way. Well, finally he realized, wait a minute, I really, all my takes are pretty much the same. So, you know, take, you know, take one a you know, take one is the same as take 10. So it really at the end of the day, he said, you know, what I should have done was, after each take, I should have just tweaked that performance, make that adjustment, you know, and just sort of try everything a different way, so to speak, to sort of try to find the best sort of way to handle that scene.

Greg Travis 48:35
Well, I mean, you're going for something very specific. I mean, that's the thing. It's like I'm a character, like, I just did this little horror movie called The Born less ones. It's, I think it's coming out later in October or whatever, but I saw it at a festival a couple of weeks ago. And you know, if I'm a creepy guy at a gas station, which I play in this film. There's just so much leeway on each line that I've got to work with. I'm going for a specific kind of insulting, kind of creepy, kind of hardcore feeling with this character. So I don't have a lot of latitude. I'm really trying to pinpoint that feeling in that that character, you know, and I think that's kind of, unless you're a character that's all over the place, that's kind of what you're trying to do is, you know, pinpoint your reactions, pinpoint your your your lines, to define the character that you're playing to be that character, and how that feels that character. And there is a right and wrong and that I do believe, you know, sometimes it feels more like the character, and then you say it slow, or you say it in a different way than it doesn't feel like the character. And so that's what you're doing. You're just trying to get that meter as close to that character as possible.

Dave Bullis 50:18
Yeah. And that's great advice. I think that's great advice, Greg. You know, Greg, Joe, just in closing, you know, we've been talking for about, you know, about 45 minutes now. So in closing, is there anything that maybe we didn't want to discuss, that you want to sort of talk about, or is there any sort of thing you want to sort of, any parting thoughts you have for us to sort of put a period down this whole conversation?

Greg Travis 50:39
Well, I mean, you know, I've done a lot of different aspects of the business, and it's a very difficult business. I don't recommend it to anybody. But I, at the same time, realize that film is a big thing, and I would say, continue to support movies by going to the movies. Maybe not so many, you know, comic book blockbusters, but more independent cinema, because we still want to see movies in the theater, and we still want to support the theater showings of films. And, you know, I would say, Don't pirate movies. Don't download pirated films, because that only hurts the filmmaker, and it makes it makes it much more difficult to put films out there. You know, everybody wants something for free on the internet, but we still, we got to get our money back, and we've got to try to support the films that that are made on a shoestring budget, that are good by paying a little, you know, four or five bucks to see them. You know, I don't think there's anything you know. I think that's an honorable way to go. And I think that's what we as film lovers, you know, should do. That's the right thing to do. And you know, I'm hoping everybody will enjoy dark seduction. And I've got another film mid life that's on iTunes and indie rain and a few other outlets out there and check that out. But dark seduction is the big one. And it's, you know, it's very comic book, it's very cultish, it's very dark and moody, but it's also extremely funny, and I'm super proud of it. And it's kind of different. It's, it's unique. It's got its own little thing going, you know. So I hope people dig it, and

Dave Bullis 52:27
I'll make sure to, again, everyone want to link to that in the show notes as well, especially to, you know, Greg's film

Greg Travis 52:33
Dark Seduction page on Facebook, and there's a dark seduction Twitter on Twitter. So, yeah, the Facebook page is what I'm using now is, and my website is gtfilmproductions.com. Is my production company website.

Dave Bullis 52:51
You read my mind, Greg, and you're on Twitter too, right?

Greg Travis 52:57
Yes, yes, Greg the actor on Twitter. And then there's a dark under slash under slash seductions that's on Twitter as well.

Dave Bullis 53:08
So Greg, Greg Travis, I want to say thank you so much for coming on again. I always learn a lot from my guests. And you know, Greg, you've continued that, that line of of education. And I, you know, this has just been a phenomenal interview, especially because I don't get enough actors on that's that's the case usually, you know, a lot of screenwriters, a lot of directors, a lot of producers. I don't get enough actors on here. Every everybody. It's Dave Bullas calm, where you can find all the show notes, and I will link to everything that Greg and I discussed in the show notes. Greg Travis, I want to say thank you so much for coming on, and I wish you the best with darks. And

Greg Travis 53:44
Thank you, Dave. I really appreciate it. Good luck with everything.

Dave Bullis 53:48
Oh, thank you, sir. And if you ever feel like you want to come back on, I would love to have you on any time. I really look forward to see what you're going to do in the future.

Greg Travis 53:55
Absolutely thanks, Dave. Appreciate it.