IFH 828: The Ultimate Life of Action: Martial Arts, Movies, and Wisdom with Leo Fong

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:54
So today we have Leo Fong. This man is 86 years young, and he's still going strong. This man is trained with Bruce Lee. He has traveled the world making movies, and now he runs his own martial arts Dojo down south. Ladies and gentlemen, with Leo Fong. Joining me today is Leo Fong. Leo Fong is a kung fu Grand Master, Methodist, Minister, fitness coach and filmmaker. Leo's film career has spanned over 40 years, and he was also a sparring partner and student of the late great Bruce Lee Grand Master Fong, how are you doing today, sir?

Leo Fong 2:33
not too bad. You know, I'm recovering from shoulder surgery, and it's getting better, yeah, but feeling better

Dave Bullis 2:42
And and you just celebrated your your 30th wedding anniversary, correct?

Leo Fong 2:46
Yeah, 30th wedding anniversary yesterday. Yeah, mad, 30 years.

Dave Bullis 2:52
Oh, congratulations, sir.

Leo Fong 2:53
Thank you. Thank you.

Dave Bullis 2:57
So so. Master Fong, could you tell us a little bit about your background, and you know how you got started in in martial arts and filmmaking?

Leo Fong 3:05
Yes, well, martial arts wise, I was raised up in Arkansas, in a little town called Widener, Arkansas, and I came here when I was five years old with my mom. And in those days, in 1935 1935 most Chinese would migrate to the south, like Mississippi, Arkansas and Louisiana. And the reason was, they started a grocery business in the grocery store business, and of course, in Louisiana, they started you know, restrooms and stuff. And the reason was, cotton was a king in those days like Mississippi, Tennessee and Arkansas, the blacks would pick cotton there, and they would, you know, rather go to the deal with the Chinese grocery stores than the Caucasian the whites, because they were being discriminated and abused. And I saw that happening back in the 30s and 40s, how they treated the black people. And then, of course, when I got seven years old, my mom, my dad and mom didn't send me to school because couldn't speak English, and so at seven, I learned a little bit of English, and they sent me to school. In the first day of school, they were all teasing me, calling me King John tanneman, and I didn't realize what they were doing. I thought they all liked me because they research time. They all gathered around me, and now that I was the only non white in that little school. But then what happened was, next day, my dad asked me, what happened? What happened school? I told him, they all liked me and all that. I told him what it was he got. Got really upset. He said, they don't like you. They been degrading your ethic, your race. And so the next day, I went back, and we're playing softball, and some little kid hit the run, and come to the first base. I fling first base and and he looked up at me and said, chick, and I hit it right in the face, knocking down, and the next thing I knew, a teacher had me up in there, spanking me because I was about probably 89 pounds, or something like that. It picked me up, a spanking the heck out of me, and it made me stand the hall. And everybody sees me as he walked by. So I think that was the beginning of my journey in looking ways to defend myself. And of course, as I grew up, grew up, I and when I got to about 1112, years old, I bought a book, Barney Ross out of box, fundamental boxing. That's where the doctor had that book, and I read it and and it started my boxing career at that around 12 years old, because I remember about 1415, years old, they were putting up little matches in in this old empty school house, or third crew house where I first went to first grade. They moved a school to a little town called Madison, Arkansas, about six miles away, a little bigger town, and so this schoolhouse was abandoned. So every so often, a couple of older guys put on boxing matches. And I remember one time they asked me say, Fong, you want to fight that be out. So I went down there and they matched me up some guy about 40 pounds heavy in me. His name was Dave Hodge. He was a quarterback on the on the high school football team. Well, he hit me. The first time he hit me, he knocked me across the room. My head hit the ball, and I was half out. And so when I got home, I had a terrible headache, and but I, you know, I figured out what happened. I said, what happened was, I just work out this while swinging at it, thinking I'm going to overwhelm them with punches. And I started learning how to, you know, strategy. Well, then they answered again, one time I said, Well, I'll fight, but you guys gotta give me somebody that's my weight, you know, you know, match me up the school, high school, athlete, athlete. And so they match me up with some guy that's about 10 pounds heavier. I knock him out because I was practicing on the, you know, on on the pillow, hanging there, and and doing all kinds of stuff that book, you know, because I read in the book, so that's how I got started.

Dave Bullis 7:48
And, you know, that's absolutely amazing, because, you know, you know, back when then, you know, they didn't have all the martial arts books, which, I know she mentioned, it was a boxing book that you bought. Because, you know, you go today, now, to a bookstore, and there's, you know, hundreds of books, everything from Kung Fu to hop keto to Aikido. But back then, they weren't around as particularly in America.

Leo Fong 8:09
Oh, and first time we heard the word karate, some people in the Styles didn't know what it was, something to eat. The first book I bought in as karate was Nishiyama and brown, you know, that little book. It was made out of the cover like Benny sack, you know. I don't know if you remember that book, but it was karate, you know, and Nishiyama, that was my first karate book, or whatever, with Oyama on it. He was, you know, the cover was, he was killing a bull with his bare hands. And then shortly after that, I, I started taking kung fu lessons in San Francisco, that's back in the 50s. But I came out here see, after I graduated from high school, I felt a call. Before I graduated high school, I felt a call to ministry, and then, and then I wasn't told my pastor what I want to do, and they made arrangement me to go to college and, and so I went to Hendrix College in Conway, Arkansas. Before I I went to college, well, I was learning the box and, and that was it. When I got to college, I had a choice. I had a friend named Jim Jefferies. He was Arkansas state wrestling captain. So he said, Leo, you got join the boxing team. I may join the wrestling team. I tell you what, Jeff I don't want to wrestle. I said, I think I'm, you know, a fit for boxing. And I said he kept bugging me, and I said, Well, why don't we go down to the gym and spark if you can pin me, I'll be doing the rushing team. So I got down there and I stabbed him with jabs and Lulu seven jab. He could never get get touched with me. He couldn't grab me to take me down. I guess you better stay with boxing. And so that whole season, because the team was they had a pretty good team, and we fought all over Arkansas, all different colleges and boys clubs and stuff. And then finally, after first year, they told me, we're going to abandon the boxing program. And so I went to the Ark of the National Guard Armory downtown in Conway, Arkansas, join their team, because they had the boxing team. See in those days, they had boxing teams all over the place, a lot of competition and and until I end up by the time I got through college and then went to seminary in Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas, I had already had 25 fights, and had about 10 pin of those two houseboat fights, and one nine of them, first one, I got knocked out in favoring and in the regular competition, intercollegiate and in au, and I got knocked out twice and lost decision, but I won 22 fights at 2525 and I had score 18 knockouts. And what I learned early that it's not about how many punches you have, but you got to really take one punch and perfect it. The reason was, there was guy named Billy Walker. He was a local professional fighter. He he bought mostly in 10 Rounders, sometimes mostly grounders, and he was always knocking everybody out. One time, I have to be on the card with him. They had an advertary thing, and I was on the card with him. So we were in congressional. I said, Billy, I watched you fight the career. You win all those things to knock out with a left hook. I said, I could. Somebody must know that you're going for a left hook. Yeah, but they don't know when the scrimming, and that's where I learned a lot, picking up from these guys. You know, I saw Joey Maxwell was light heavyweight champion. He became my personal friend after I became an adult after I wooed out here, he was light heavyweight champion. He fought the Archie Moore and all those guys. And he came to Little Rock, and he bought a 10 rounder, and then Tony Zale and I, I happened to meet Tony Zale and his manager back in 1950 I was going to turn pro. And then I tried not to, after I stayed spent afternoon at Midwest gym watching all these firefighters, most of the bus route? No, I don't want part of that. So I said, I will get that out of my system. And here I was a second year student at seminary. I said, I better stay in the church. This fights really is fun. So that was my experience in marketing. And then I then, when I I got into my second year in seminary, I had a job at Rankin chapel in West Dallas, where Bonnie and Clyde used to hang out. And so I got a job there, teaching at the community center, and I started a boxing program there, and I had pretty good, successful program. I first year I entered, first year I entered my students in the southwest Golden Gloves and and out of 10 guys nine and won the championships. You know, either you went to finals or one championship. Yeah, that's incredible, yeah.

Dave Bullis 14:08
So, so Master Fonk. So, you know, you, you're, you know, you were in seminary when you decided not to go boxing. So when did you start, you know, picking up like, you know, other, you know, martial arts styles, you know, because I know you've practiced in a variety of styles. So was it sooner after that that you started to, sort of, you know, practice other styles and meet when you met like other martial artists?

Leo Fong 14:28
Okay, here's what happened. The I came out to West Coast because of racism, the bishop sent me out here. Instead of giving me a church in Arkansas, which was a blessing in the skies. I didn't realize what a blessing was. I was very bitter because they said, well, we don't have no Chinese churches in Arkansas through the Methodist Church. So I said, Well, okay. Then finally, in the method church, if we can come all day, they guarantee your job, you can sue them. But then my colleagues told me to sue. Them, I said, No, I'm not gonna be that. Lifted me up Sacramento, and this where I I learned, first of all, I was driving in 1954 I'd drive down the street, and I saw signs Jiu Jitsu, so I stopped. I went all the way up the stairs and met a guy named Bill Luke, and he was a student of Bruce tegner. I don't know if you ever heard that name, Bruce Tegner. He wrote a lot of books back in in the early 60s, and from Oxnard, California, Ventura, Ventura, California. And he would exaggerate his skills, but he was really a judo guy, but he put in pressure upon knockouts and all these things, little books. And I played with him about a year, and we used to get on man, grapple with him. I ended up smoking the guy, but we were good friends, and he was the instructor, so I got pretty good at that. Then he said he's gonna move to LA, and when he got to move in. LA, I look, I was looking for another place, and the only place I could find was a judo school in a judo school in in, in the YMCA. And so I went there, and his name was Bob Bendix. Used to hang around with Ben camel and another guy who was an Olympic champion, big black guy. And so I went and I got a green belt in in judo. And one of the things to happen one time after I got my green belt, bunch of ladies came to visit. So he visited the judo class, and he wanted to show them what Judo was all about. So he said, Hey, farm, come here. So he said, full punch. And he called, grab my arm and get under to a hip throw. And told me to I threw the Deaf care about this so fast. He missed, and he was real pissed off. He said, Don't you know how to throw a punch. I said, how you want me? Sword, Bob, he's a four tooth play. He want me to let my arm hang out there, you see? Well, I did, and he slammed me to the mat, and I slapped the mat like I supposed to, and that was it. And then so I said, Well, I had enough of this. So, so one day, one of my church members said, Hey, I was being harassed and picked on today by some black kids in class. He was a school teacher, and he said, We need to go go out and learn some Gong Fu. So I said, Okay, so one one day we went out there, and so we asked the guy on the street corner, Chinese guy in Chinatown food school here, yeah, there are two of them. There's one up there by the church and one down here by the park. So I said, which one's best? He said, What's up to you that the guy down here by the park is an old guy and upstairs young guy. And so I said, well, so I said, the guy, Jimmy. I said, I think the old guy might be better. So we're down there. We met the guy named what is his? Met the old guy. I mean, it slipped my mind momentarily, but we turned out he was a little small guy, had a tremendous grip, and he was also the enforcing the katongs. Low bun, low bun. His name is low bun, L, O, W, B, U, N, yeah. And so I trained there for about two or three years, then went up to the other school and checked it out. And you went there about, I guess, 738 o'clock, and there's nobody there, just one guy in the front of the mirror doing some gofu movements with a three pound dumbbell in his hand. So we standing watching, and he turned around and looks. He come over, took the waist down. Came over said, he said, my name is Jimmy Lee. And he said, You guys looking for no food school? I said, Well, we got chicken house waters. Come join us here. So that's Jimmy Lee, turned out. Later introduced me to Bruce Lee. And, and then what reason was he? We were training there, and Jimmy had a falling out with a ty Wong, the instructor, because they had published a book and and Ty won accused Jimmy of short changes in the $10 I mean, it's a minor thing, and in the end. So Jimmy said, the hell with that. You know, I didn't teach you anything. I'm gonna leave. So he said to me, he said, Leo, you want to train? I'm going to start my own class in my my garage. You won't go. You follow me, or you'd stay. I said, No, I go with you, Jimmy. And I didn't know what's going on. So I went and I go out there every person Friday night to see him. And so one day, he said, Hey, you want to attend volley J luau. And I said, What's happening there? He said, Well, there's a young guy whose name is Bruce Lee. He's going to demonstrate. I said, young guy. I said, always. He said, 21 years old. I saw man, what can a guy know at 21 I said, But I come. I'm curious. So I went to luau. And so this young, 21 year old guy jumped on the stage, and he started doing a northern style Kung Fu for him, slapping his hand and throwing that kick up high, pop, pop, pop. And then he said, Now, how in the hell do you think you guys could fight doing this. And he and then he said, you you feel it's a classical mess. It's like getting caught in a fish net trying to fight your way out. And I looked around, I saw those old Goku masters down there that some of them, I knew, they turned red in the face, and they were embarrassed. And then Bruce was brash and cocky. And he said, anybody won't come up here and stop my jab, my finger jab, so nobody. And then finding some big guy, like a football player, jump on the stage and Vim, he touched him on the forehead. He said, Maybe I did it too. Soon. You ready? I do it again. So doctor, Yeah, I'm ready. He touched him again. And then, and then finally, the guy was kind of embarrassed, who bit and he shakes his head and gets off the the stage. And then he asked if anybody else won't come up, another guy comes up. Try it. Same thing. The guy's hand was so fast, and I said that I was interested. And so after the demonstration, Jimmy said, Bruce is gonna stay in my house, and he's gonna go back next week to Seattle, and if you want to come Monday night, we're getting a gathering together. So Monday night, went to Jimmy's house, and there was about four or five people there, and I think Bob Baker was one of them. He was one that was in one of the movies. And so one of the things that Bruce demonstrated that night was the one inch punch and and the trapping and doing it blindfolded, too. And then he said he gonna come down to after he he goes back up to Seattle and map things up. He's gonna come back down to Oakland and stay with Jimmy. And he called Teach, so I was one of the first students that showed up when he moved down from Seattle to Oakland. And we got to be pretty good friends, because they were all in a wing chun pose down in that garage, about seven, eight people that that was in that first class. And I asked Bruce. I said, Bruce, why do you guys all in a softball stands and holding your palm up? So he said, want to join 10 star, and you put your right hand out, because your right hand is a power hand. Said, Are you right handed? I said, Yeah. I said, but you know my knockout punches, the left hook, jab and the left hook, and then my right hand inside rear hand, and I shot a couple of shots out there. Bang, bang, bang. So he said, Well, you do what you want to do and but I never joined the class so much. I just walk in, bench around a little bit, just see what it's feel like in but it end up every time I come into town, I sit in living room and talk to him and Jimmy and that way. And then we begin to discuss different styles of fighting and just everything in general, just kind of buddy buddy. And he respected me for my, my, you know, boxing skills and for what, what so what I did was just kind of got more more out of talking with Bruce and and listening to his his philosophy and his theories, and he was Smart, I'm telling you, so he was,

Dave Bullis 14:28
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Master I was just gonna ask Master Fonk, did you ever actually receive the two the one inch punches? Did he ever do that to you?

Leo Fong 21:24
No, he never did it to me. He would pick up that phone book and give her somebody else hope. Now, looking back, I talked to Linda about a week ago. I had not talked to Linda in about 20 years, and and she said that, you know, deuce had utmost respect for me. That's amazing. You see, I did spot with Deuce one time. We were kind of like a couple of drunk. Guy sitting around bullshitting. He said, Hey, Leo, let's go out in the backyard and spot a little bit. Okay, see, and he realized, see I was not complying, and I didn't want to chase after him, but he was bouncing around. That's after he came to kendo. And so every time he come within range, I was watching it real good. So he tried sidekick on me, and I started stepping up. I hooked his leg, and then, of course, he kept moving around trying to get on me, and I'm moving the thing is, there's boxing. Timing is nothing. You realize a lot of people denigrate boxing because he's they all look too simple, but that's why he is. The whole thing is not so much the outward techniques, but it's what goes on inside of you. Like I stay in front of somebody already. I know have a feeling. I feel what he's gonna do when he make that initial move. I always took that jab in his face, and then, then, then if I jab, jab and fake down low, I see the hand that iron coming down. I hit him with left hook right on the chin. That's what I hard knock those guys out in the ring. It's always the body shot with a left jab and then come over left hook and very simple move. But you know, you do it a Bruce Lee said, do it without telegraphing. Non telegraphing. Move because he studied after the Wong John mon fight, when he realized that when Chen didn't do it, we did a lot of discussion. And I said, Bruce, you know what I would have done me to what if you turn around and try to run from me? I would bear him back a neck and jerk him back, and I would constantly hook him up a Cody, you know, instead you ran, you were running him chasing around the room trying to for forward, blast him with the wind. Tun pops. It don't work. You know, when you running away from guys like I kiss a girl leaning away from me. That was it. And then Jimmy was always there, and he he agreed with me, because he used to box a little bit, you know. So the three of us, you know, they're pretty close, I mean, more so than people real life. And that's why I never had a picture taken with Bruce. I never thought about it. I didn't care. A camera around and say, Hey, Bruce, let's take a picture. We just hung out, you know, just like you were hanging out with your buddies, you don't have picture taken all the time, yeah, but, but Linda will tell you, because you brought that up, because the other day, because I've come Peter robot, one of my friends. He's a martial artist in Pennsylvania. He's writing a book on weekend, though, the way of the integrated fist and waking dough really is my version of Dick kendo. But I don't use the weekend though, because Bruce said, I don't. I don't really want anybody going down using what is mine. They have to discover themselves. And the first thing he said to me, he said, Why are you going to to trade in so many different styles? I could do it. I'm looking for the ultimate. Man, then he put his finger on my chest. He said, the ultimate in there. Man, take that box and you have and learn how to kick and grapple with it, and you got it. Man, don't go looking outside yourself for the secret is all in there that changed my life. I know where I try to come out in the knee and jab in an eye. I have my own way of destroying somebody. You know, if it works, I don't know.

Dave Bullis 28:35
And that is so poetic, too, that you know Bruce would say, you know, something that sounds exactly like Bruce and his philosophy of, you know, it's all inside of you, and you do things your own way. Because I remember reading when, before he passed, he would mention about jeet kune do, and he would say, you know, you know, don't emulate what I do. Just you know, find your own path to express yourself.

Leo Fong 28:57
And I'm about one of the few guys that did that. That's why people never asked me for seminars until recently. Vision I'm piled up saying no to a lot of people because they want they can teach the boost Lee stuff. That's not teach Leo Fong stuff, and it works for me. Bruce Lee stuff don't work for me, but I have the essence of Bruce Lee stuff, the basic principles that he is behind it. And he discovered, you know, thing that I watched him before he got in, that Wong Jungman fight, his kicks wasn't that high. Then later he ran into June read. And June read, you know, Korean style, and you kicking high. And so what happened was, and I learned something about Bruce he'd do the same thing drew Reed does, but he'll look like Drew Reed. He looked like Bruce Lee. So he was able to text him on his techniques and internalize it that comes out Bruce Lee, because I remember he, he wanted me to stay, to go with him to the international championship. And he said to Steve McQueen and Galison summers, gonna be there last no man. I gotta go back to San Francisco. I have a date up there. So, so I met, no, I had, you know, I had gotten a divorce, and after dating this girl, and so she's all waiting on me in San Francisco to go to a play and ride to fly back up there. And but he said he was getting dressed, and he had on his underwear. He said, Leo, let me show you something, man, he popped a spinning back kick out there. I never seen anything like it. And he said he hears something like, yeah, it's gonna pop. I said, But you, I don't know me. Oh no. I said, No, but please, but he got that spinning back kick from Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris didn't look like that, you know, Chuck Lawrence looked this, but when he just been back here, he just looked like telegraphic and in the most time he missed, because I know he fought into my tournaments before and but Bruce, that's spinning back here, he used into all his movies, you know, and he made it pop. And he got that from watching Chuck Myers doing spinning back kick, and then all these other kicks. He watched you and read and but they don't look like either one of those guys doing it, see. So that's where he was able to be a step above everybody else trying to imitate him. He didn't know how to internalize it. What I did was I internalized his concept and then, but when I found out the concept is already what I already knew from boxer. Most of it come from boxer, because he had all the boxing books, you know,

Dave Bullis 31:54
Yeah, I know Bruce Lee was a student of a lot of different martial arts, and I remember reading through he had a lot of, you know, books and libraries. And you have just,

Leo Fong 32:03
You know, you go to this house, he's got three bookshelves, and they all full wall to wall. They had a lot of martial arts books or box and all that. Didn't he a lot of false books, and then a lot of books on how to sell real estate. The one day I asked about the boost, are you into real estate? He said. He said, No, I'm the real estate I said, I see. I said, amazing how he could cross train. And another example was one day he called me up. He was very excited. Hey, Leo, did you you watch Bob Hayes? He just be a sprinter. Remember, next time you get a chance, you watch Bob Hayes, when they say, on your mark, get set. He lift his heels and boom, he's gone. So now, from then on, he was lifting his weird rear leg heel up when he he would close the gap.

Dave Bullis 32:56
So yeah, he would you, that's amazing. How you would you do that? So that way, that way, he sort of got there even faster, and it was almost like he was pushing off to close that gap between you, between you,

Leo Fong 33:07
Exactly, because in Boston, I already knew that the boxer you, you on the toes, and lot of that bounce around. They, when they bounce around, they they were on their toes.

Dave Bullis 33:28
So so Master Fong I, you know, around this time, you know, Bruce started to, you know, gain popularity. I have to ask you, you know, do you have any stories of anybody challenging Bruce? Because I remember Linda mentioned that in a documentary how it got to the point where, you know, Bruce was, you know, some random street brawler would always come up to Bruce or something and try to challenge him. But did you have, did you ever see that?

Leo Fong 33:50
Well, the only one that was long John, but Long John, but didn't challenge. It was a guy named David Chin that instigated the whole thing. He won David Chin to talk about coming over my place and trying to knock me off, but he's really chicken inside, so he came one time and stood there I had about the gym in Sacramento. Was when the one good buddy and my buddy, and who's also my foreign partner, Lucky Ken, was my Spartan partner, and he was wing kind guy, but I was far with him in boxing and shopping. My boxing with him. He tried shopping. He always had an edge on him, and he saw David's gonna come tonight. You know, I knew David pretty well and but not that well either, you know. So he said. I said, What is he gonna do? He won't train with me. No, no, he's gonna challenge you because he thinks he can beat you because he thinks your boxing is crap. I thought, really okay. And so he came and he stood around while I was teaching a couple of students, and then and he saw me spying on my student, and I said, well. I take him long after I get through with these two kids, and then he disappeared. So I said, Hey, Lucky. Where is Where's David? I thought he was going to, you know, I thought he was going to stick around and spoil me. I like Sparling. Said, No, I don't know where he was, you know, he took all Yeah, and, and so that was that. And then next man knew he was instigating. The instigating the, you know, fight between the one got money and Bruce Lee going back and forth and says, This guy said this to you. This guy said that to you. And finally, after all over, after Bruce Lee kind of embarrassed him. He original fighter. He lasted about five seconds. Bruce said to me, said, You know what I should do, go get David and kick his butt. Yeah. And then they would be scared. Man, he didn't. He didn't show his face anywhere. Yeah, so that was the story there, you know.

Dave Bullis 36:09
So was it? Was it Bruce who ended up getting you involved in filmmaking?

Leo Fong 36:16
No, he didn't do that. He did promise me a part in a movie he's gonna do with James Coburn. But then, you know that party didn't get off the ground. They sold the script to and it became David Carradine. The circle of the sign, circle vine was was raised a script that still upon, developed with Bruce Lee, and then somehow, went to India, look for location, and then they came back and didn't, they just couldn't get the financing, I guess, because it was such a big budget. So they sold the thing to Africa embassy, and then they develop, they did the movie with data care team starring it. So, but, but his movie did. They really didn't put a fire on me that I want to be an actor. I never act in my life. But one time, a guy in Philippines called me and want to know if I want to be another Bruce Lee. I said, Well, I don't know what to deal with. So I'm making a movie, and I want you started? I said, Okay, I tried. And so my buddy Ron martini, who is a tournament fighter, Paul Chuck Norris and good and all those guys, so we, he and I went and we made our first movie. And that's how it got in the movie business. I got interested and but, but he did inspire me to continue to sharpen my acts and the martial arts.

Dave Bullis 37:48
Yeah, any, any Bruce continues to inspire just generations of martial artists and and people, even through his writing and through his movies. And, yeah, yeah. So, so Leo shamaster Fong, so that the movie you're talking about was that murder in the Orient, the the one in the Philippines, yeah,

Leo Fong 38:09
Yeah. Manila that my very first movie, Ron Marquis and I did it. And then we did either side do bunch of stuff on his own, and I did, but then I decided shoot it in the United States. My first movie in the US was kill point, and it did very well. It did $7 million box office. Of it $200,000 budget, and it got recognized in the variety and Hollywood Reporter, you know, it was amazing, you know.

Dave Bullis 38:39
And that was the first time you worked with Cameron Mitchell, correct?

Leo Fong 38:44
Yeah, yeah, Cameron Mitchell and his girlfriend, Hope Holiday, Toy Donohue. And so I had a lot of these old timers in my movies. You know, guy named Richard Lynch, who was an ace in USA with Chuck Norris, yeah, and then yeah, a lot of that Richard Norton was in blood Street,

Dave Bullis 39:14
Yeah, yeah. And did so when you were working on kill point, you you work with Cameron Mitchell, and you worked with him again on on low blow. Do you have, which, by the way, low blow is my favorite movie of yours? Well, yeah, I have the low blow poster on my wall. Actually, it's it. I, you know, I think it's phenomenal. But so do you have any, any, you know stories about working with Cameron Mitchell and kill point and low blow.

Leo Fong 39:52
No, I don't have his stories, no, but I tell you he you know the. Can't be good friends. And he had endless stories. When you with him, you you never had him listening stories. He tell you he's been in Hollywood so many at those so long, that he had stories with Clark Gable, Ava Gardner, and all these old icons, you know, and and so. And then the other thing I owe to my last week, yesterday was my my 30th wedding anniversary, and and Cameron Mitchell and his girlfriend, hope holiday was responsible for matching up my wife and I, because I remember my Lee, wife had passed away, and and hope called me up one day and said, Hey, Leo Cameron wants to know if you want to do his mercy. Yeah, what you look like, and that's for the first thing to ask you. And then hopefully I said, beautiful. So anyway, that I happened, anyway,

Dave Bullis 41:22
So Master Fong, you know, with low blow, as you know, as we talk about, you know, where you work with Cameron Mitchell, you know, low blow, you actually wrote the screenplay for that movie, correct? Yeah, I wrote the screenplay, yeah. So was that your first time writing a screenplay?

Leo Fong 41:38
That was the first screenplay. Yeah, that I wrote that.

Dave Bullis 41:44
So, how did you, you know, how did you go about writing it? I mean, did you you? I mean, because at that point, I don't know how many screenwriting books were out, but did you go and research the you how to use screenplay format and and

Leo Fong 41:59
Funny, I always did that thing ass backwards. I said, Well, I look at a movie, and I said, Oh, okay, I that's how it is. And I look at the script that's been written by somebody else, and I said, Now the headline is always interior, exterior and in the place, and what day or night. Then he described the scene. And so let me see, I think that first time I wrote a script was in the low blow. He was a tiger's revenge or enforcement death's role, same movie, but different title and I just come back from the Philippines after made Merlin Orions, I went to the post office and stopped in California, and I ran into one of My my friends. You know, he's an insurance broker. So he said, Hey, Leo, what you been? I am singing around. I said, I've been the Philippines making a movie. And I said, Hey, by the way, you know, I can make movies for about 35 $40,000 in the Philippines. And they look like 200 $500,000 movies. He said. He said, You won't make a little bit money. Time to do it now. So is all these martial arts movies coming out when martial arts in it? So he said, Hey, why don't you come in and meet my partner? Said, named Michael badway. I joined forces when he's my He's an attorney, and so we doing stuff together. I went there, and he introduced me. And so Michael had taken lessons from me, even karate before. And so, you know, both of Michaels, Michael Sullivan, and then Michael badway said this. Michael badway, so he said, Yeah. I said, Mike, telling me, you know, you make movies. I said, Yeah. I said, you know, if you didn't come up with some money, I said, we can go Philippines, make, make a good movie, you know, make a movie that makes money with a lot of karate in it. He said, Devil's hot, right? Then all the drive ins had five fingers of Death and all that stuff and and then, so anyway, I told him he was listening. And he said, Well, let me see what I can do. I got a couple clients. Got money, you know, we can come up with 25, 30,000 you know? I said, Man, Philippines, Bob Max upper pesos, and we've got a movie. And a few days later, Michael badway called me up, and he said, Hey, Leo, I want to do it. I got, I can get $10,000 from this guy. He owns trucking company in Stockton. And if I, and I think I have made 15,000 25 would be enough. When it well, if we get a joint venture, I think it would be enough. And so, so he said. Then later he says, I think that another one's going to put a couple more of. Bucks, you know. And so why don't you and Mike go to Philippines with the 10 grand and see what you can do while we did that. And the second day I was there, a guy knocks on my door, and he was Production Manager for for what you call it, that the movie that he shot over there, kind of title kind of passed me in. But who is the guy that did godfather? Yeah, couple of, couple of, and he did a movie there, war movie in the Philippines, that this guy was a production manager on it, and he said, Hey, Leo, I I got a guy who's got whose father just died, and he inherited some money, and he wants to put his peso into an international production I said, You came the right place, man. I said, I got, I said, I got maybe half million pesos. I didn't tell him. I got $10,000 I just said, half million pesos. He says, he says, let's, let's meet for lunch. I didn't meet for lunch, or he might be the guy you want, you the guy he wants to see. So we went to lunch and we talked. And so he said, let's, let's sign a contract tomorrow. I'm interested. So we did, and so we did enforcement death row with the joint venture. I use all the pixels first, and then we shot from us scenes, and I use my dollars. We didn't have to you raise the money $10,000 did it, and came back, and the movie was shot for less than 50 grand, and it made about $200,000 and I independently distribute the thing with a friend of mine who was in the distribution. So I traveled to Bowie, went to Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida. Yeah, and then, and that's, that was the beginning of the history of my movie making. And then, of course, one thing led another, and then I was shooting a movie every, year.

Dave Bullis 47:21
And, you know, that's the and that's a great way to actually be able to go town to town. Because, you know, even in like, the 30s and the 40s in America, that's the way, you know, they used to exhibit movies. You know, they used to go around like that. And you know, I know a few filmmakers who, such as Kevin Smith, today, they were doing things like that. They were actually just, you know, showing it from town to town to and then so local, local venues then, but now, you know, obviously you promote it online, and then, you know, that's, that's the way they spread the word. But, and, you know, and so when you were writing low blow, you know, what was some of your, your inspirations for the for the movie, you know, sort of like the, you know, the writing in the field of movie

Leo Fong 48:03
The thing is, I thought about this private investigator. He's kind of sloppy. Like, what was that? God, I have problem memory these days. But that, that kind of that, the kind of sloppy Columbo. Columbo, yeah, Trumbo. So what is his name? Slumbo? And I took a page from that. I could Joe Wong. Is this a sloppy guy driving old, beat up car and but he ain't nobody mess with and that's how it got started, and so, so we decide users apply the camp off of Jim Jones disaster in Jonestown. So that that, and then, then Cameron Mitchell played the Jim Jones type of character. He was kind of nutty. And then then we had couswa, who was in Color Purple, with hoopi Goldberg and and she would sing, that was his friend. So he said, Hey, you want to have an Academy Award actress or nominee? I said, yeah. So I didn't know who kuzwa was. Kuzwa boshia, and her father was a diplomat in Africa, and so she was in it, and she played his girlfriend cold hard in in low glow, yeah. And so, so I had a friend of mine had a Rolls Royce, and we decorated up in there. They wore robes, white robes, and stuff. His sheets are on him. And drive Cameron Mitchell up there. And like he was a celebrity. And they had this camp, so I got this push from that. And mainly the character was Columbo, you know, yeah,

Dave Bullis 50:19
You know, you mentioned one of my favorite things about about Joe Wong, your character you play, was that car he drove because it would never start, and he always had to beat the engine and and he always got the parking tickets.

Leo Fong 50:35
Yeah, yeah, back seat full of parking tickets. And I bought that car for 100, 125 bucks off the off the my mechanics place. He had that car sitting there. I said that the idea was red. It resonated in a color and junkie looking. And I said, How's this car? He said, Well, you know, it's got a rebuild motor in it. But, you know, it. But, you know, the body looks kind of shitty, you know, I did well, how much you want for 125, cash. I said, Okay, might be a monitoring file. Cash. And took it. He laughing. I said, they weren't good. They were roaring. And then, but had a good motor in it. And then the problem is, it was too bad. Sauce in the smoke would come through the floorboard when you drive in. You almost took the desk and then, and I finally gave it. I didn't give away. I thought of some guy for 75 bucks.

Dave Bullis 51:38
Yeah, yeah. And one of my other favorite gags, too, was when Joe, when Joe Wong would, would always end up hitting the car into things like the barrier, and he ran over the divider.

Leo Fong 51:53
Yeah, yeah. He was a bad he was he lived up to the cell type of Asian trying to drive us, you know. And I would cuss the thing in Chinese, and and so. But the movie did well. He did not $3 million to box office. And some of these second there second or eight theaters, you know, and they and then, when I was a canned film festival, a guy, and I was trying to push it, Cynthia rothlock movie. I just directed her, and in a fight to win that came to the title, something else I don't know. And then he comes up, and he stood in and watching. He said, So you in that movie? I said, No, I directed it. He said. He said, Well, too bad, you know. I said, let me ask if I was in the movies. What happens? I buy it, see, I, you know, I bought low blow, and I did a lot of good business with it in Japan. And I said, Oh, I see. So he said, Well, anyway, hopefully next time you make a move in that movie, and I'll be there by Okay?

Dave Bullis 53:01
And you did, because you ended up making the sequel to low blow, called Blood Street.

Leo Fong 53:04
Blood Street, that's right, yeah, I had written Orton in it, yeah. And blood speed did good. It didn't. It went limited engagement, theatrical, but they did real good business and video, you know, and overseas, did good in both seas, and that was one of my favorite, too, Blood Street, yeah,

Dave Bullis 53:25
You know, I just bought the a rare VHS copy of that for about 35 bucks.

Leo Fong 53:32
Oh, really,

Dave Bullis 53:35
Yes, I found out there was a library in in Maine that actually had it on sale through Amazon, and I couldn't find anywhere else, and I saw it, and I so I got it, and it has all these, you know, rental stickers on it, because, you know, all those rental houses are, you know, they're out of business now. So, so I ended up getting that. So I actually, I actually have the VHS copy. So I had to bust out the old VCR.

Leo Fong 54:04
Yeah, I, I usually, what I'm doing now is taking these VCRs, dominate this place that transfer and he'll put it into DVDs, yeah, making these things, you know,

Dave Bullis 54:19
Because technology now is, you know, has come so far, because I actually have a the same thing at my office. And I was like, you know, now I want to put blood street on Blu Ray, just not for selling, obviously, just for myself. I'm gonna, I'm a two pack of blood street, a bloodstream low blow.

Leo Fong 54:37
Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. Cuz kill point did real good business, and that's really a big story that, in fact, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna write a book on on on movie making and tell a story for each one and each one story, each movie had a story, and because I raised funds for every. Movie, you know, and and how I raised money for bloodstream was, was shot for $50,000 and there was a guy who wanted to get involved in movie making, and he had a friend that that, you know, did real well. They own a canning company in Stockton, and so he it was a classmate at University of Pacific, and he came over, and I told him about the movie making, and I said, Well, it's high risk, but then, you know, if you want to invest, it's great. I got the story, you know, we're gonna do and they all he wanted was credit for it, and he gave me 50 grand. You shot it and and made some money back, but I wouldn't say that. We got back and I did another movie called last reunion, and that one made some money for me. I may got the first time I went around and made the sales, I made about $60,000 and then about five years later, a guy called me up to Leo. My name is blah blah blah. I you know, friend of Frank Johnson. He and I did the thing. He was a camera guy and and he says, I have money for you. I said, Seymour. He may have Seymour summers. I said, How much money you have for me? I got $35,000 and that was just like out of nowhere. You know, be surprised with money. I said. He said that what I did was I able to collect the money from this company in Utah. They use the last reunion as one of the five movies to raise funds for one of them, distribution companies. And so I went and got the 35 grand. And I said, how much you gonna get summer? He said, 3000 so getting to that 3000 till I had, you know, and split the rest with Frank Johnson. I called Frank Johnson another one day, and I said, Thanks, and you got a spot for you. How would you like to have a few bucks? You know, he was happy. And he became Nile Cameron director, one of the top television TVs back in the 90s, you know, because he had gone nearly move up in the business, yeah,

Dave Bullis 57:32
And I think that is a great idea Master Fong to create a filmmaking book. Because, you know, I have a I know you can't see it right now, obviously, but behind me is just a library of all types of filmmaking books. And, you know, one thing that I've learned over the years is about financing and stuff like that from from plethora sources, but, but, and it's always just interesting to hear, because there's never in the filmmaking business, you know, there's never one way to do anything, there's never one way to raise money. And there's always, you know, I'm always interested in hearing all these, you know, innovative ways, interesting ways, of how somebody funded a film. You know, I've had a for instance, I had one filmmaker on here, and this is, this is, you know, you mentioned filmmaking is high risk. He actually ended up losing his house because of it.

Leo Fong 58:19
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no, you don't put your house. There are certain things you don't do. Yeah, you get other people's money and and he don't mind. Yeah, I raised money for another movie, I think was bamboo chap, Babu chop, no blind rage. And then, and so five blind guys robbing a bank. And so one of the guys in there, one of the black guys in there, he was a minister. He's good friend of mine, and I preached His church a few times. And he had a good friend is in trucking business in Richmond. So he said, Well, let me go check with the with this friend of mine, and so he had me in his office. He said, Well, I you know, I'm going to give you the money because of my friendship with Booker. Let me tell you something. I'm gonna give you five grand and and, and I don't expect to get it back if you do your best, but if you don't do your best, I'm going to be really upset. I said, Okay, we finished the movie and then we had a premiere showing in San Francisco, a special screening. So I invited him there. He looked at the movie and he was really happy. He said, Hey, I'm glad I invested in him. Down the road, you need more money. Let me know. You see, he didn't care about getting the money back. He just want to see that we did it sincere and in good intention, do our best. That's all he wanted. He didn't want to go and squander the money away and end up with a piece of crap.

Dave Bullis 1:00:08
Yeah, that's a great because he was investing in you and that, that's such a great story, yeah?

Leo Fong 1:00:14
And so when you go to raise money, don't try to find people, because you run into somebody who really said, Well, I know this guy's got a dream. I'm gonna help him realize it, see. And so that's why the book would have some depth to it. Because of that kind of type of thing, when you go in to ask for investors, make sure you got the right motive, right, you know, motivation as well as believing in their in their vision. You know,

Dave Bullis 1:00:49
Absolutely and you know, with the advent of crowdfunding now, you know, one thing that you know I always talk about is is, you know, making sure that your project is as good as it can be. Because I think a lot of filmmakers now, you know, race too quickly to try to get a movie made without, you know, realizing the script has to be good. They have to, you know, it's putting a lot of things in place. It's like putting together a puzzle, and, you know, you have to sort of, you know, get every little piece and then you sort of move. Because, you know, filmmaking is, you know, it's like moving an army, because, you know, you're moving, you know, some film, some films have, like, you know, hundreds of people, because, you know, there's from crew and cast and, you know, other films, or there's, there's a smaller bit, but it's still, you know, it's like moving this mass amount of people and getting all coordinated and getting all seen division. And you know, that's why, you know, with crowdfunding, and same as you know, finding equity crowd, you know equity funding, it's, you know, always making sure that, you know, everything is as best as it can be.

Leo Fong 1:01:43
Yeah, yeah. That's right, that's right. You have to. And so I, you know, I learned quite a bit doing it on my own, you know, because at the beginning, when you have too much money, you depend on people, they jerk you around. And I said, Well, you know, like when I went to Phil feed and and I got to fill, you know, I sponsored him over here later, but, but I didn't appreciate the fact that I had him directed thing, and he, he pushed his old car he owned on me, and he wanted to smash it up, I mean, and he wanted to do a scene in Lobo, I mean, Tigers revenge, where he had a clamp, you know, flying helicopter, you clamped a clamp, that thing on the car and drive it into the sea. I said, Well, that's not gonna happen. You know, in real high life, you throw on your brakes, that helicopter will come crashing down. But, but, but he want to get rid of that car, plus, and know how much you want for the car? He said, Oh, no, 25 30,000 pesos. You know, in the Philippines, 25,000 30,000 pesos, like 25 $30,000 and even though it may be much less so, he kept saying he didn't want to do it unless he did that or do the movie, until he had me halfway through the thing, and I had not directed anything before, and he says halfway through it, he said he wasn't going to do it if I didn't go along. To do a scene, but he kind of put a gun to my head, and I said, Okay, go ahead and do it, then I'll pay you for your car. And but I forgave him in a way. I brought him back over here when he his family want to come over here, need to sponsor. I sponsored him, and he's over here with a green card, and so I did another movie with him, but then I wasn't too happy, and now stay away from me, and he was looking for me not too long. And then some of my associates said, Oh, he's not here. He went out somewhere. He didn't come back, but because he pulled that shenanigan on me, his logo, I mean, tigers, Avenger, enforcing this role is my second movie. So I said, I'm gonna learn how to direct. That's what I said. I'm gonna replace it. And so what I did was I kind of act as assistant director to my friend who directed low blow, and I kind of watched him, had him Tell me some stuff and, and then I found out the leaders, that all you got to do is just, you know, be aware of camera angles and, and this act. And I learned from Cameron Mitchell, because he used to and kill point. He used to sit right on the sideline and watch me say my lines, and he would say, hey, Leo, throw it away. I said, What do you mean going away? He said, You know Martin Armando? I said, yeah, he's a good actor. I saw what makes a great actor. He said, he throws his lines away. I said, Yeah, but he mumbles. People don't understand what he says sometimes. And. He said, Who gives a shit I got I learned a lot from he humorous, but I understand what it's all about, because I had a tendency, before I took lesson from him, to raise my voice and go too high. He said, You got to kind of drop it down. You got to feel the lines you see. And then so and then it changes my whole thing. I didn't look when I see myself on the screen. After that, I wasn't as embarrassed as well as was before. Yeah, I was embarrassed. I was like Jim Kelly in his Melinda, his first movie. If you had seen the movie Melinda. He laughed because Jim Kelly was saying, Hey, Boss, come here. He got so high of his voice. He was just too high. It took it and but difference between phase acting and movie acting is opposite state, the act and you will project in in movie acting, you want to communicate feeling and eyes tells a story, yeah?

Dave Bullis 1:06:15
And you always learn more by doing, right? And you know, that was so great. You had to learn from Cameron. And you get to learn, you know, directing while you know, while on set, you know, watching and you know, that is, you know, and that that is irreplaceable, that that type of, you know, learning and that type of training, yeah,

Leo Fong 1:06:32
Yeah, it is. You learn by doing. And that's, that's how I learned, even preaching, I went to seminary for three years after my BA degree, and in the only way I learned it was just making mistakes. And finally I said, Well, lot of people in seminary says you don't ever want to use this manuscript. You want to get up and and really communicate with the audience and and I was forgetting a lot of stuff, so I said, No, I'm gonna run out of preach from a manuscript. Rather than read from manuscript, I'll preach from manuscript. And wow, that changed the whole thing. When I got through the service, people complimented me. So you got a great sermon, because I did not omit anything, and yet I was able to to depend on that manuscript, but I didn't need it. I preached for it and that. So you'll find you know different niches and different tricks and the trade. When you start doing it, when you start reading and trying to get advice from everybody you get, you know, tangled up in all that opinion, that stuff, you know,

Dave Bullis 1:07:51
It's sort of like how Bruce told you, you know, this is my way. You have to find your own way.

Leo Fong 1:07:56
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. And I really like that. But when I do it my way, you know, you kind of, you almost unbeatable killing,

Dave Bullis 1:08:08
You know, Master Fung, you mentioned there's something I meant I forgot to ask you about low blow. There's a scene in there. We you know, your character, Joe Wong, he's fighting through the cult. And one scene really stands out, and that's the scene where I believe you either stomped or punched the one of the henchman's head, and his head sort of collapsed. I just wanted to ask, you know, you know, if you don't mind, I again, I'm big fan of the movie, is a, you know, how did you guys do that and to, you know, you know, was that in the script, or is that something that sort of just came on set as, sort of like a spur of the moment type thing.

Leo Fong 1:08:52
It was for the moment. You see. What happened was some guy had a plastic head on the set. And I said, Oh, that's interesting. And he said, you can have me. You want to do what that? I said, What if I destroy it? I don't care. So I said, I'd be what I got. I got an idea. And I said to the Family Guy, I say, Frank, I want to send somebody down to the meat shop and get some have a meat stuff in his head, if I lay this head down, and what I want to do is throw this guy. And if you throw him, your mind, your vision, is on him getting thrown. And then now you cut to my heat smashing his head. It's already there, and you won't see that it's not connecting this body. Yeah, see? So that's how we do? We pull a trick there. It looked like he got smashed, you know, he hit the floor, and then I stopped and smashed his head, but it was full full of hamburger meat, yeah, that's how we did it. In the script, you know, it just we made up that scene. You smashed my car time.

Dave Bullis 1:10:13
That's right, because you did cut apart his car with that with with the saw,

Leo Fong 1:10:18
Yeah, yeah. With the saw Yeah, that car, that car blonde, his camera guy. He said, I don't want to, you want to destroy I said, Well, let's get a power saw. Saw that thing in half. That would be a pretty good scene. Yeah, yeah. It was fun. It was fun making that movie. Everybody had fun.

Dave Bullis 1:10:37
Yeah, yeah. I could tell because it was enjoyment to watch, too. And I could tell when, when people enjoy themselves making the movie. It shows, it definitely shows on screen.

Leo Fong 1:10:47
Oh yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, you know about happy, you know. And no Eagle involved.

Dave Bullis 1:10:57
So, you know, Master Fong. I know I've been talking your ear off for over an hour now, you know, I thank you so much for coming on the show, so I definitely want to have you back sometime if you ever want to come back on. Oh, excellent. Thank you so much. And you know, I wanted to ask, you know, this is what I always, I always ask this question, anybody to all my guests is, do you have any, you know, closing thoughts, or, you know, anything you want to say just to sort of, you know, put that, you know, period at the end of this interview.

Leo Fong 1:11:29
Yeah, my thought is that you got to keep everything perspective. And, you know, you can't take everything serious. And I believe that humility and integrity are two things that we have to have, and I try to live up to that. And in the whole whole thing in life is not to be serious, but to be funny, to have fun and in our relationship with each other, and understand that we in the martial arts are family, and we don't need to go challenging people. You know, I have people, some of these guys in Wing Chun had wrong struck. They want to come down, touch hands with me and all that stuff. And I tell my students, they gonna be surprised. I don't touch hands like they think I'm gonna cut hands face. I said, But, but I rather make friends than make enemies. And I think we have to keep our martial art in perspective. And you know, it's something that we can do in movies, and then in fitness and all that is a great, great path to travel. And then I think we need to value it like a lack of religion. That's very well, yeah, what I have to say.

Dave Bullis 1:12:59
Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm sorry for optic. I was gonna say, it's very well put Master Fong, that's very true. And wanted to ask you to so where can people find you out online?

Leo Fong 1:13:10
Well go to leotfong.com, leotfong.com is my my email address. And there's a website called [email protected] and, and there's some I have a website, you know, with products are on and stuff. I don't really push trying selling thing. It just it has my biography in there and all that stuff.

Dave Bullis 1:13:43
Yeah, excellent. And again, I'll link to that in the show notes. So for everyone who wants to find Master Fong online, Master Fong, again, I want to say thank you very much for you know graciously giving me some of your time to talk on the show and again, please. Whenever you know you ever want to come back on, please just let me know, and I would be, you know, happy and honored to have you on again. Okay, okay, thank you. Thank you more than welcome and again, and if I that book, I can't wait to read that filmmaking book.

Leo Fong 1:14:19
Okay, all right, good. I'll let you know.

Dave Bullis 1:14:21
All right. Thank you very much.

Leo Fong 1:14:23
All right, you're welcome.

Dave Bullis 1:14:25
All right. Master Fong, have a great night, and I will talk to you very soon.

Leo Fong 1:14:29
Okay, you too. Thank you.