IFH 084: How Filmmakers & Artists Should Deal with Haters!

Haters, a problem that artists, filmmakers or anybody who puts themselves out there have to deal with. I know of many filmmakers who are crippled by what other people think or say about them. The fact is that you are going to create anything; a poem, write a novel, make a movie, write a song, cook a meal or build a house, there will be people who have opinions.

Now opinions are fine. As they say, ever has an opinion and the internet has given everyone with an opinion a voice. Now there are constructive, mature opinions and there are straight-up haters. People who want to bring you down for a myriad of reasons.

I decided to shine a bit of light on this topic because it is so important on your filmmaking journey to be free of the good opinions of others, as the late Wayne Dyer used to say. You can not allow other people’s opinions or thoughts to bring you down or stop your forward momentum when making art of any kind.

Take a listen to my experience with haters I’ve dealt with over the years. I hope it inspires you to continue creating regardless of the good opinion of others.

“Don’t let compliments get to your head and don’t let their criticism get to your heart.” – Anoyomous

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:00
So guys today, you know I wanted to do this episode, because I think it's something that every artist and anybody who puts themselves out in the public at all has to deal with. I'm talking about haters. Now. I always like to say that haters you know, drinking you know haterade by the by the by the palette, they're buying the haterade of Costco that's how much they hate sometimes and you know when I first did my first movie back in 2005 and you know I got I'm really put myself out there pretty heavily with with that short film broken. And I got a lot of reviews, a lot of great reviews on the movie and just a lot of love. And the second I got a Roger Ebert quote, I'm not kidding you I had four or five bad reviews back to back the back to back right after that. And the haterade the haters, if you will, came out with such vengeance and just veracity that was it's still out there somewhere online if you want to check them out. They're hilarious, the the reviews and comments and things like that it was actually quite brilliant. And if these guys would just put a little effort into making their own movies, as opposed to all the effort into hating me back then. Maybe things will be a little different. But I wanted to talk about haters and people who don't believe in what you're doing. And a lot of times just trolls or haters that just go after you because of whatever reason they want to go after you for whether it be jealousy, whether it be just who they are. And that's the one thing I want to kind of really stress out about this. You're not going to make everyone happy as an artist. As a filmmaker, you're going to make movies that cannot you can't make everyone happy period. Some people might not like your style. Some I pick my people not like the way you do things, or the way you make your movies. But can you imagine the amount of haters that Robert Rodriguez, uh, Quinn, Tarantino, uh, Kevin Smith, a spike lee, a David Fincher, Chris Nolan, all these guys have had their haters. I know it's hard to believe. But all you got to do is just go on google and type in. Let's say this Shawshank Redemption, arguably one of the greatest movies of all time. I've yet to meet many people, if any at all. Who don't either like it love it. I think it's the greatest movie of all time, or at least it didn't enjoy it. They acknowledge it being a very well told story. I've never heard of, I've never met anyone who disliked it, like just really disliked it. Well, if you just go on to Google and go, Shawshank Redemption, bad review, you will read bad reviews of Shawshank Redemption, and it'll make you feel better if someone's crapping on your stuff. I mean, not that your stuff is, or my stuff for that matter is as good as Shawshank Redemption. But it just shows you that no matter how good something is, there's always going to be someone hate and always going to be haters out there. And I know it affects a lot of people differently. Specifically, you know, I've been around for 20 odd years, and I've gone through this multiple times with my projects, anytime you put your projects out there, especially on the internet, people will hate people will leave comments, people will do whatever they want to do. And that's fine. And that's who they are. And, and you have to understand that you can't, you won't, you have to understand that people are going to be who they are. So if they're nasty people, they're going to be nasty. If a frog is going to be a frog, you can't be angry at them for being the frog. You know, you just can't, you know, if you are hanging out with a snake and the snake bites you, you can't be angry at the snake because that's what snakes do. You know, that's what their nature is. So if people are going to hate that might just be who they are. They might be dealing with other things that they're dealing with, in their own personal lives. And this is the way they get it out. Who knows, maybe they just want to hate just for the sake of hating. And that's fine. It's completely acceptable if you want to, I mean, not acceptable, I don't accept it. I think it's horrible. You know, everyone has an opinion. And I've always tried to be very constructive with my opinions. I try not to be juvenile with my opinions, on on movies on on people because it's very difficult to make a movie, it's very difficult to make art to put yourself out there as an artist, it's very difficult to have a podcast to have a blog, a public blog, where it's you know, 1000s upon 1000s of people read it every day. And you know, people will have their opinions on what you have to say about things and that's okay opinions are everyone has them you know, just like they say opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one you know, I don't mean to be rude crude about it, but it's the truth. You know, so, you know, I have a couple sayings I love to hear anytime I get haters or people dislike something I'm doing. And it says basically, a tiger doesn't lose sleep over the opinion of a sheep. And, you know, and I think that was such a great, great saying, because, look, I've studied so many different filmmakers over the course of my career. You know, the Ridley Scott's the Chris Nolan's The David Fincher is the Tarantino's. And I've noticed that among all these people, especially anybody at the top level, anybody that's made it to the higher echelons of whatever field they're in. One thing they all have in common, is generally speaking, they don't let other people's opinion really matter that much. They just go forward. You know, Ridley Scott has not read a review of his movies, I think since some of the early ones he made prior to Blade Runner. Because I mean, someone like Ridley Scott has been, you know, bashed so many times over the years for the kind of movies because you know what, you know, you're not going to bat 1000 on all your movies, every artist, every filmmaker, you're not going to be making, you know, homeruns Oscar winning things every single time. It doesn't work that way. Art doesn't work that way. So, you know, someone like him, he just kind of just puts his head down. He's like, I don't listen to it. I just do me. And that's my advice to you guys. You're always gonna have people around you who don't believe in you who are hating on you just literally just because they have their own issues and they want to hate on you. There's other people who are going to try to bring you down and of the day guys, is just listen to yourself. And, and, and just do you just do you do the art you want to do, do the movies you want to make. Do you think that someone like Lloyd Kaufman, who runs troma films, who's been a guest on our show, and I'll leave a link in that in the in the in the show notes. Lloyd makes movies like Toxic Avenger, and class of nukem Hi. And you know, by all accounts, a lot of people do not like his movies. They're not for everyone. You know, they're not supposed to be mass consumption. They're not for mass consumption. They are for a niche crowd. There's a lot of people who just don't like him or how he's been doing things. And you know, he's been doing it for like, 30 odd 40 years now. And he doesn't care. You know, as you get older, by the way, comedian Wanda Sykes always says, As you get older, you give less of a fuck. And it's very true. Because what they don't care, they don't care what they look like, they don't care, but they just don't care. They just don't care. And as you get older, you you kind of give less of a shit about what other people think. And some people are crippled by artists, I know a lot of artists, a lot of filmmakers who are crippled by it. And it's something that it bothered me very, when I was early on in my career bothered me a lot. But it doesn't bother me anymore. You know, of course, you you want, you don't want people to talk bad about you about about about your work as an artist or bad about what you're doing. But you know what, at the end of the day, you know, they're not paying your bills, they're not looking at, you're looking at you in the mirror at the end of the day, they're just doing them. So instead of just concentrating on them, concentrate on you concentrate on what you want to do, and don't exert any energy, by reading comments, by looking at what they're doing, or what they're saying. Just do you, you know, can you imagine all of these big music stars like a Justin Bieber or Drake, or Beyonce, or Jay Z, or m&m or any of these guys, I mean, people have just completely tried to tear them down, and they just shake it off, they don't care. You know, they just keep doing it. Because it's not positive for themselves. It's not positive for their own artistic journey, their own personal journey, they just got to keep going. So my advice, guys, is to just do you. Don't worry about what other people are saying about you. People are going to hate, don't try to defend yourself, to try to go after anybody. Because at the end of the day, it's all about you on your journey. As a filmmaker, as an artist, as a human being as a soul, whatever you want to call it, you got to do you, and not worry about what other people are going to do, because other people are going to do what they are going to do. And you have no control over that. All you have control of is how you react to when things happen to you in life. Not you can't control the circumstances. All you can control is how you react to the circumstances. How do you react to the haters? Drinking that haterade by the gallon. It's up to you guys to keep going because I've seen too many artists in my career and my travels, I've seen too many artists who get sidetracked because are really crippled sometimes because of negative comments, people trying to bring them down, all sorts of stuff. And that's just the way things are. So please, do you guys. Don't worry about what other people think about what you're doing. Just do you. Now, with that said, Okay, with that said, as an artist, if you're listening to constructive criticism, yes, listen to constructive criticism, because that helps you grow as a filmmaker, as an artist. If it's something constructive, if you're doing something and there's just a wave of people who just like, Look, this is not if you're trying to achieve reaction a and 80% of the people who watch your movie are not getting reaction a well you should probably understand why they're not getting it and maybe listen to what they're saying. And then maybe adjust accordingly. But if there's just people who are just hate and be like, oh, look what he's doing. Oh, look at that. Oh, they add Ooh, boo, boo boo. That's not constructive. By the way, that was a great impression of a hater. I'm just I'm just But anyway, so guys, don't worry about what other people say about what you're doing and who you are, and any of that kind of crap. It's a lot of times it's just bullies. And the internet is full of these trolls and bullies who who love to sit behind their keyboard, anonymously, just spewing crap just to spew You know, and I really wish not only them but everyone only good things in their lives. I hope that every every hater out there eventually gets to where they want to go, you know and if they do that maybe they'll stop hating on other people and maybe stop criticizing other people and trying to bring other people down. I really wish them nothing but love and support and good things on all their future projects. So from the bottom of my heart everyone listening, just do you and don't let anybody else try to bring you down guys to download the show notes go to indie film hustle comm forward slash zero 84 for all the links and things we talked about in the show. And don't forget to head over to free film book calm that's free film book calm to download your free film audio book from audible. So guys, thank you for listening. Please spread the word on indie film hustle on the podcast and on this as Meg if you can, I really appreciate it. And keep that hustle going keep that dream alive and I'll talk to you soon.

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IFH 083: 11 Golden Rules for Filmmakers on Social Media

With social media taking over the world it is more necessary than ever to use it to get the word out on yourself, your film project or your production company. Most indie filmmakers have no idea of how to build an audience or how to use social media to promote and engage with that audience.

In this podcast, I go into great detail on each of the 11 Golden Rules for Filmmakers on Social Media.

  1. Honor the Platform You are On: Each platform has its unique advantages and disadvantages. 
  2. Create Native Uploads: Uploading a video to Facebook and not just post a Youtube URL is very beneficial. Facebook gives videos uploaded to the platform more reach. The same goes for images. Make sure images sizes work for each platform.
  3. Post Behind the Scenes Action: People still love seeing the filmmaking process. Don’t forget that. 
  4. Create Different Kinds of Content: Shake it up. Jump from video to pictures to character memes to interview videos. Change your content type often. 
  5. Don’t Under Estimate the Power of the Email: Build that email list!!!!!! Emails still convert 3 times more than social media.
  6. Hashtags and Harnessing Internet Trends: Why not jump on a train that already has momentum. More on this in the podcast. 
  7. Communicate with your fans: Don’t just post into the ether 
  8. Pick a Handle and Stick to It: Use the same handle across all social media platforms 
  9. Say it with words: Inspirational and funny quotes are huge on social media. Don’t always just post images. Add some fun text to stand out. 
  10. Don’t Assume People will come to your Website: Your main hub for your entire online eco-system should be your website. All forms of marketing should be to drive traffic to that site. Once there hopefully you can get an email or sell a product. On your website, you control the relationship. Not so much on Facebook. I go into great detail on this rule in the podcast. 
  11. Be Creative! Your Filmmaker for God’s Sake: Nuff said!

Take a listen to the podcast to get a full breakdown of each rule.

Most of all these rules have helped me build up my social media reach on multiple social media platforms.  I hope you find value in it. Keep on hustlin’.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:00
So today's episode is about social media, and how to maximize social media for filmmakers. So today we're doing the top 10 tips to help filmmakers on social media. So the very first one is going to be honor the platform that you're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, Snapchat, each of them are all very different, and have different abilities, strengths and weaknesses. So if you post the same way across all platforms, you're really missing out because there's a lot of little tricks of the trade per social media platform. So definitely check it out. I know that Facebook obviously has more characters than Twitter. So if you if you're using something from Twitter and posting on Facebook, you're limiting yourself on what you can write and how much stuff you can write images created for Twitter might not work well on Pinterest. And same thing might not work well on Instagram as far as formatting is concerned. So just look at each platform and see what the strengths are for each one, and create content that is going to be maximized in that platform. Tip number two is to create native uploads. So what I mean by native uploads, well, if you upload a video to YouTube, and then post that video on Twitter, on Facebook, that YouTube link, that's one way of getting your video out there. But if you post it on YouTube, you post that video on Facebook, you post a video on Twitter, and you post a video on Instagram that are all native to each platform. That's going to give you a lot more reach because in Facebook's algorithm if you're using your uploading videos for Facebook, they give you a little bit more reach you can more people will see your stuff. And just currently By the way, Facebook has overtaken YouTube for more video views than any other place because Facebook is facebook. So don't underestimate the power of video on Facebook. YouTube is still very very close and still a huge huge monstrous thing. But do them natively so if you create something on Twitter, upload a video on Twitter with their limitations I noticed like I think two minutes or something like that. But you can upload natively to them and you'll get more bang for your post if you will. Tip number three make sure you're posting behind the scenes action behind the scenes stuff. Believe it or not there's still a lot of people out there who are not filmmakers and and who love seeing the process love seeing the behind the scenes of how things are being made. So post as many behind the scenes photos with your tag of your name of the movie that you're working on. So people can continue getting that brand associated with these photos, but photos, videos behind the scenes, videos, interviews, anything that you can do to create more of that window pull Looking back the curtain on the filmmaking process, people really, really love that. So definitely keep that in mind. Tip number four, make sure you have a lot of different kinds of content. I mean, a lot of people will just continuously post you know, pictures and pictures and pictures, or videos and videos and videos, or memes, memes, memes or whatever those things are. Just create a variety of different things that you're posting up keep it interesting keep it fresh update a you know a different updates by a different kind of situation. So an iPhone video, memes funny meme sometimes works. Depending on your movie, different types of posts, just always keep it fresh. And don't stick to one kind of content. Keep it always ever changing. So people are excited to see your posts. Tip number five, don't underestimate the power of the email. I've mentioned this many times on the podcast before but email lists, email lists, email lists, you have to be building an email list for your company for yourself for your project as soon as possible and build those that direct link to those potential customers and followers instantly, because it still converts Believe it or not, email still converts about three times as much as social media does. So it is very, very powerful. I know it's old school. And I know like oh, an email list an email list, it is still very, very viable, and something that you should definitely be doing. And there's a ton of courses online tons of articles online, on how to build an email list. So please keep that in mind in your whole social media and marketing plan. Tip number six, the power of hashtagging and being associated with viral things that are going on in today's social media world. So if something goes viral, like the Chewbacca Mom, let's say for example, if you have a project that you can kind of connect to that Chewbacca mom, which you can easily like, oh Chewbacca mom made us laugh like this character in the movie or something along those lines, I'm just coming off the top of my head here. But something that you can connect to something that's going viral and you hashtag it Chewbacca mom, you'll get thrown into the conversation and you will get people that might be interested in what you're trying to do. So it's just another way of getting the message out of what you're doing. So keep that in mind. Tip number seven, communicate with your fans. I mean seriously, as simple as that this is called social media for a reason. So when someone tweets you back or someone messages you or content or comments on something you've posted, comment back interact with them. And that will hopefully start building up a relationship with those people. And also other people will see that you're not just as robot out putting stuff all the time you're actually interacting with people and trying to build relationships with these people. As small as those relationships might be by just tweeting people back. But believe it or not a big deal especially if someone's interested in what you're doing. So definitely communicate with your fans. Tip number eight, pick a handle and stick to it. So whatever your handle is going to be make sure that handle is something you can use on all your platforms. So with our movie, this is Meg we decided to use this as Meg film across all of our platforms because this is Meg was taken by someone named Meg obviously. But this is my film is open so we took this as Meg and put it on all our social media tech so I Facebook at Twitter, all the all the different Matt platforms, we're on social media, we use this as make film. And then the website, we would have used this as mag film, but this is mag comm was available. So we decided to use this as mag on our website, but on your social media, try to use the same handle for everything. Alright, tip number nine, make sure to use words when posting images, you know, quotes and things on on top of images are extremely, extremely powerful in the in the world of social media, especially with inspirational quotes and things like that. So you can kind of tap into that with your movie, whatever that quote might be. So if it's behind the scenes met via an inspirational quote about filmmaking in you, doing something behind the scenes, as well as with your movie character, saying a line from the movie, and putting it out there. So those kind of viral elements would really help you out. So definitely use words when posting out images on your movie, production company or yourself. Tip number 10. Don't assume that everybody is going to come to your website. It is not the case use social media to push out elements from your site. So if you write an article about your dp and what they're doing on your movie, use that as content and push it out through your social media outlet that drives them back hopefully to your website, where they're if you've designed your website properly, you can take advantage of That audience and those eyeballs to do what you want them to do, whether that be sign up to your email list, sell or sell them a copy of your movie, any of that kind of stuff. But once they're in your world in your ecosystem, which is your website, that is key, because the website is basically the hub. For everything else you're doing, as far as you're moving your production company or yourself, that is your hub, that is where everything should be coming back towards. That's what you would want people to come to. Because again, when you're building up all these social media accounts, that's wonderful, and that's great. But at the end of the day, you know, it's in somebody else's playground, that's in someone else's sandbox. So Facebook can change, like they did their algorithm. And all of a sudden, when you had a million followers on Facebook, now 5% of them will get a post of you, unless you pay Facebook, to show them to those followers that you've worked so hard to get. But if you take them back to your website, you get them on an email list, and all of a sudden you control that relationship don't allow other social media outlets to control that relationship. So I'm not saying that the build those things up. But the end goal is to get them back to your website back to the site where you have control of the relationship. So social media is wonderful, and it's a great traffic driver, but you have to have a place for them to drive. If you don't, it's a big waste of time. In my opinion, if you're putting up post and post and post without certain sort of link attached to it. It's kind of a wasted post because if someone likes something you did, you gotta have have them nowhere for them to go, then what's the point? You know, other than maybe they like you, but then they may not see you again, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I definitely, definitely work on that website and use social media to drive traffic to that website. And tip number 11 you're a filmmaker, be creative. For God's sakes. I can't believe how many times I've seen filmmakers be so uncreative with their marketing uncreative with their social media, comments and tags and, and posts and things. It's just remarkable. You're filmmakers, you're supposed to be creative, you're artists, be creative in your posts, have fun with it, you know, do stuff that's funny, do stuff that's controversial, do stuff that intrigues and entices people to look at who you are, because there's a lot of noise out there, guys. So be creative. That's why a movie like punk fury, for God's sakes, which was extremely creative, cut through that noise, like a hot knife through butter, and they've made so much money, crowdfunding their movie and selling it and selling merchandise and blah, blah, blah, I'll leave links to Kung Fury in the show notes to see what they did, as an independent short film from Europe, for God's sakes, not even like, you know, it's not a LA or New York kind of thing. These guys are completely out of the Hollywood system, and they were able to crush it. So definitely be creative. All right. So I hope these tips helped you guys out a little bit on your social media plan. And don't underestimate the power of social media. It is basically the internet now, you know, social media is the internet, we're constantly being social online. And it is so so powerful. And if you can harness even a minute amount of that, for your project for your movie, for yourself, for your production company. It is extremely powerful and empowering for artists to be able to do that. So you guys have the power to get the word out there on yourselves and your film projects. If you want the links to anything we've talked about in this episode, head over to indie film, hustle, calm Ford slash 083 for the show notes. Now if you guys want access to the indie film syndicate, which is our membership site, which we're adding new videos all the time, every month, we'll be adding new videos, new content, it's already starting to grow, people are already starting to sign up. And we are going to limit the amount of people that go in so definitely head over to indie film syndicate comm and check it out. I'm not sure when we're going to limit it and when we're going to stop people coming in. But probably for maybe I don't even know I don't want to say yet. I'm still thinking about when we're going to do it, because I gotta make sure I can handle the amount of people that come in. So head over to indie film syndicate COMM And check out what we're doing. I think you guys will really, really like it. And if you want to be part of our Facebook group, head over to indie film, hustle, calm forward slash Facebook and sign up, it's free. You can over there and talk to all the other tribe members and just learn from each other. And it's a really great little community that we're building up there. We're almost close to 5000 people signing up for for the Facebook group. So hope to see you there. Thanks for listening, guys. So keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive. And I'll talk to you soon.

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IFH 082: How to Work with a Music Composer with Cris Velasco

So I entitled this podcast “How to Work with a Music Composer” because it is a mystery to many filmmakers. As visual storytellers, we focus so much energy and effort to the moving image. For many of us, music is an afterthought.

What would JawsIndiana Jones or Star Wars be without the musical score? With technology, it has become more and more affordable to have a beautiful score added to your indie film. A computer can’t do it alone, you still need a maestro to compose that music for you.

A good score can add a great deal of production value to your little indie film. This is why I invited composer Cris Velasco on the show. Cris and I have worked on many projects together. His music has definitely elevated my projects.

Here’s some info on the man:

Cris Velasco is multiple award-winning composers of epic orchestral, dark experimental and modern hybrid music scores for video games, film, and television. After graduating from UCLA with a degree in Music Composition, Velasco pursued his passion to write music for visual media; his first major release was composing for Sony’s blockbuster God of War. 

A prolific and versatile composer, Velasco has become one of the most sought-after composers in interactive entertainment, scoring many major titles including Company of Heroes 2, Mass Effect 3, Borderlands 2, ZombiU, Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine, God of War 3, Tron: Evolution, Borderlands, God of War 2, Darksiders, Clive Barker’s Jericho, and many more.

I wanted Cris to go into his creative process and how he likes to work with filmmakers and creatives. Plus you get a bonus “Star Wars” themed music score he created on the Warner Brothers backlot. Enjoy!

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 5:41
I'd like to welcome to the show the legendary Chris Velasco.

Cris Velasco 5:45
Hello, nice to be here, Alex.

Alex Ferrari 5:48
Thanks, Chris. So guys, so you know, Chris and I worked together on a few of my on my short films years ago. And unfortunately, we've made we remained friends ever since.

Cris Velasco 6:01
Was definitely one of the big downfalls of working for you.

Alex Ferrari 6:03
Yeah, exactly. So I wanted to I wanted to get into a Chris, I mean, you've worked on some huge, huge video games. And I want to kind of well, first and foremost, how did you Why did you want to become what made you want to become a composer?

Cris Velasco 6:19
Well, it took me a long time to figure it out. And I was just going to a junior college, you know, trying to figure things out and taking, you know, just a lot of different classes trying to figure out what am I interested in. And I had never had any musical training. It did play guitar and a death metal band prior to that,

Alex Ferrari 6:41
That makes so much sense.

Cris Velasco 6:46
And I was I took a music appreciation course. Not even sure why it's just like, Oh, well, that'll give me some units. And it kind of studied all sorts of music from you know, current. You know, whatever it is currently playing on the radio back then, like in the 70s. Got it? Yeah, in the 70s. to jazz to blues to you know, a lot of stuff I just wasn't that interested in and then, and then one day we were studying Mozart. And they played Mozart's 40th Symphony. And I just had this epiphany. It has really moved me and I decided that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to compose Wow. Which was just so weird because I'd never had never had musical training, couldn't read music. I the only classical music I remember listening to up until then was like Peter in the wolf when I was a little kid, right? Of course. And of course, like john Williams. But yeah, I had no idea that I could actually compose, but you know, I started doing it and put together a little portfolio of stuff and then use that to apply to UCLA and got into their composition program. And,

Alex Ferrari 8:16
And it's and that's the way it went down. So how did you get started in this crazy world of composing video games?

Cris Velasco 8:26
Well, I fortunately got into games back when not a lot of people were doing it. And it was really looked looked down on it was sort of the, you know, the redheaded stepchild of of music for any sort of entertainment.

Alex Ferrari 8:43
Is it still is it still kind of looked upon like that? Or is it get our opinions changing?

Cris Velasco 8:48
Oh, no. opinions are changing, at least at least by composers. Everybody wants to do video games now. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, I'm constantly pitching for stuff against some of the the top, you know, film, composers and in Hollywood. So yeah, it's become very competitive.

Alex Ferrari 9:09
So you got into it early on when no, but there wasn't as much competition.

Cris Velasco 9:13
Yeah, and there was still competition back then. Now it's just seems kind of ridiculous. But when I graduated from UCLA, I suddenly realized, oh my god, they didn't teach me at all like, what do you do when you graduate? Like how do you actually go out and, you know, earn a wage as a composer. So I decided to go back to school and get my master's degree just to kind of hide for another year or two. And, and the head of the department there, told me Yeah, no thanks. We're not interested in having you back at the school.

Alex Ferrari 10:01
That's great.

Cris Velasco 10:03
And the reason was, because according to the school back then, what I was interested in writing was they considered low art. Wow, really, they wanted people that would write this, you know, obscure concert music that you know that nobody listens to, nobody wants to listen to. And because I wanted to, you know, write something that was melodic, for a medium that would actually be heard by people that I was already a sellout and didn't want any part of that. Now of course, they send me requests for money every year.

Alex Ferrari 10:41
Of course, you're an alumni. So what's the process of working on I mean, you've worked on some like 100 million plus dollar budgeted video games like how do you work on something that big and what kind of pressure you under I mean it must be obscene

Cris Velasco 10:58
No, I just you know, whether it's like an indie title that you know, got most of their money off Kickstarter or like you said like $100 million franchise I just kind of treat them both the same. And you know, it's just I love what I do I come down in the morning to my studio with some coffee I I turn on what I did the day before I see if it's good if I'm going to delete everything. And I just start working and you know, the I try to take on projects that inspire me so there's never any real creative block.

Alex Ferrari 11:41
So just so everybody knows, I mean, I've I've been in in the cave Chris's cave, man cave, if you will, and it is probably one of the coolest rooms I've ever ever been in my life it for for people in the audience who are our age. It's kind of like a silver spoons thing going on. in there, there's like toys everywhere. He's got an ad at he's got giant statues, which I'm going to talk to you about how he got into the statue obsession afterwards. And, and then the best part of the whole piece is he's got this video game stand up video game system, which has how many video games plugged into it? Uh,

Cris Velasco 12:21
I don't know exactly. 2000.

Alex Ferrari 12:23
There's, like 1000 video games like old school, like every kind of Street Fighter you can imagine from every country in the world. Like, it's obscene. So every time I come over, I'm like, I tell my wife. I'm like, I'm not coming back for at least a few hours. I just have to play and have fun. It's a wonderful creative environment without question. And on a side note, the reason why Chris now has become an obsessive purchaser of statues from from aliens of predators and monsters and things like that is I took him to his first Comic Con down in San Diego years ago, and his eyes just opened up he's like, what is this? And he just started buying stuff left and right and then I would piggyback on him so I would buy stuff right behind him I'm like look my boy spending 1000 bucks Can you hook me up with this? He was a wonderful time before I had children, so I can't I can't spend that kind of money nowadays but

Cris Velasco 13:27
Oh man I miss it. See me walking down the streets of Diego. Oh giant Hulk bigger

Alex Ferrari 13:35
Yes I'm staring at my giant Hulk figure right now it is a it was a heavy as a bitch boy I swear and we were just

Cris Velasco 13:41
All the way because it's too heavy.

Alex Ferrari 13:42
Oh, I was just bitching up a storm because I had like a Hulk a Wolverine. I mean, it was a huge, huge like statues I had and we're just walking we didn't have a dolly or anything so we're carrying this for probably about half a mile to our parking spot. And I was I was pitching I was pitching like crazy but those but those are fun. Those were fun time, sir. So um, can you tell me I know you've gone up to the legendary Skywalker Ranch a few times to record and I've never been invited but I'm not bitter. How is it to work there and and how is it to meet George Lucas.

Cris Velasco 14:24
Okay, well, I've only briefly met Lucas one time. I've recorded probably like seven or eight scores up there.

Alex Ferrari 14:34
But you told me you had dinner with him every time was that was a lie.

Cris Velasco 14:39
Oh, George. Yeah, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 14:44
You met him. You met you met him briefly.

Cris Velasco 14:46
One time. Oh, that was Yeah, it was. I think that was Fourth of July and he, I guess every fourth he would throw a big party at the ranch. And everybody that worked for Lucas would would show up and they had you know huge tents everywhere with barbecue and you know horseback riding and baseball and face painting and just you know it was just a whole big thing and we happen to be up there recording the next day so so you know we got to go to this thing and and so George was sitting there and not too far away and you're kicking out like crazy with some clients from from Paris actually on that one and in one of them was such a huge fan he's like oh I want to I want my picture with him and but he was too scared to go up and talk so so he he just basically photo bomb and he's like just taking the time in the background. You see this like this scared French guy like just kind of peeking up over his shoulder

Alex Ferrari 15:56
That's great.

Cris Velasco 15:58
And then and then my my wife and I were like ah, screw this we're gonna go up and say hi, and apparently nobody had told us this but you're not supposed to approach or speak to George Lucas at these things fair enough. He doesn't like it and so we walked right up and said hey George, how's it going? And he looked completely shocked didn't really know what to do but but Aaron got a nice picture with Oh my God, I invited him to check out this scoring session the next day to which he said no

Alex Ferrari 16:35
Ofcourse so with that said, How was it How is it working in like that I mean that's a legendary place to record isn't it how is it?

Cris Velasco 16:48
Yeah it's amazing it's you know, it's its own self contained. ranch basically it's you know, I forget how many acres it is but it's it's huge. It's, you know, like, almost a mile from the, from the end where you can stay to the recording stage and they've got these beat these Skywalker beach cruisers everywhere. So if you want to ride a bike to the stage in the morning, you can and any ride by and you'll see cows and sheep and deer and chickens and you know they've they do their their own wine there now Yeah, you go past the vineyards. And it's just really beautiful.

Alex Ferrari 17:30
Yeah, I heard that he put I heard he put vineyards in for tax reasons. Up in Monroe County, like if you have a vineyard, you get taxed on a certain amount of tax breaks it. So um, so let me ask you, how does it How does composing the video game different than working on a film for, say, a narrative film?

Cris Velasco 17:51
Um, well, they're nonlinear. So you can't score it like a film where you just watch the picture and be like, Oh, this, you know, this thing is coming up now. And, and it will always happen at the exact same moment, you know, obviously, in a film games, or, you know, the pace is usually determined by whoever's playing it. So yeah, you you really, you're just kind of composing to nothing. And then it's all about the implementation and in the game, when you add to get in there and make it feel like it's interactive with with what's going on screen.

Alex Ferrari 18:31
Now, how much music do you actually make for like a video game like excited, like actual time, the amount of music I'm imagining is a lot more than it would be for a feature.

Cris Velasco 18:41
It just depends. I mean, some games don't require that much and, and I've only, like, I just finished something that only had like, it has maybe 12 minutes of music in it right now and that they felt like more was going to be too intrusive. And I'm working on another one right now to be 100 plus minutes.

Alex Ferrari 19:04
Oh, wow. Okay. And that's when they that's when it starts getting crazy.

Cris Velasco 19:10
Yeah, the deadlines are usually pretty laid back if you if you start with them from the beginning.

Alex Ferrari 19:19
So but I've heard it, I've heard you going crazy during those other kind of deadlines.

Cris Velasco 19:25
Yeah, well, then it's just crunch time, like anything else where you don't really get to sleep, and you're miserable. And I, I really try to avoid that these days and get everything spread out and try to get involved as soon as I can. And

Alex Ferrari 19:43
Well, let me let me ask you, when you approach a composing gig, do you like to break it down per scene? If it's a movie or a narrative? Do you break it down as a whole? How do you like how do you spot How do you like do a spotting session if you will, and it can you explain what a spotting session is

Cris Velasco 20:01
Well on a film or on both for a game that you know, there's not really a spotting session I'll just get a document from the audio director the bigger companies have someone that's kind of in charge of, of all sounds you know, whether it's music, sound effects, vo whatever. And those guys are the audio director and they will usually set up like a document for me that just lays out exactly how much music is required how long each piece is, what it's for, and then we'll have a discussion about the style and and and I'll just kind of go from there.

Alex Ferrari 20:46
Now how about for the net for a feature?

Cris Velasco 20:48
Yeah, so you know that with those usually you'll sit down with the director and watch the film and sort of go scene by scene and decide do you think this needs music? Yes, no? Why not? And

Alex Ferrari 21:10
Then you obviously discuss tone and things like that like what the tone of the movie is the tone of the music is sometimes is a little bit more experimental sometimes it's a little bit more on the nose some stuff like that.

Cris Velasco 21:20
Yeah, and sometimes there will already be attempt score in there it's something that the editor has has used to to you know to help set the tone so a lot of times if if that's been in the film for too long, you know, they get what's called template and then template that's what it's called. stuck to then in some cases, just doing a complete knock off of this music that they have in there.

Alex Ferrari 21:52
Yeah, which is generally Shawshank soundtrack. Isn't that what everyone uses as attempt?

Cris Velasco 21:58
Maybe maybe a while ago now it's all you know, whatever Hans Zimmer has done lately,

Alex Ferrari 22:04
So a lot of bummm so I'll tell you guys the the way that me and Chris met for the first time which is relative to what we're talking about. I come over to Chris's house. We reached out we found each other I won't discuss how we found each other because I don't want to I don't want to share that information. And I don't think it was matched calm All right. Well, you know, it was I didn't want to say it. It was it was a difficult time in my life. Now. We found each other online and I told him I had this short film, it was already done. It was it was red princess blues. And he's like, Yeah, come on over. And then I think once I walked in the door, Chris always told me he's like, Oh my God, this better be a good movie. If not, this is gonna be a really awkward meeting. Because imagine you sit down you put the show over to my house. Before ever seeing a piece of footage ever seeing any of my work or anything. It just like I hope this is okay. Because if it isn't, this is gonna be a really awkward conference. And I just kept thinking to myself, Oh my god, imagine if I would have put down my short and it would have just been you know, a guy naked reading a yellow pages while eating ice cream. And that's the short and I would have just loved to see Chris's face going. How do I get him out of here?

Cris Velasco 23:25
Yeah, like can I realistically pull off a seizure?

Alex Ferrari 23:31
Exactly. So let me ask you something that was always wanted to ask you what is your creative process? Like when you because it's a mystery to me, like music composition is an absolute mystery to me. So like, how do you like find? Like, how do you compose? I know it's a really deep question. Like, can you explain how you compose music? Like know me, but like, What is? What's your inspiration? What is your creative process? Do you listen to other stuff? Do you like it, it just come from you, you just are hitting a key on a keyboard? How does it work for you?

Cris Velasco 24:05
Um, I will rarely listen to other music just because I don't want to be influenced by something else. I mean, I'm already like, you know, you make up your own style over the years, hopefully. But that style has been influenced by everything that you like, right? So in that regards, I am already influenced by what I'm going to write, but I don't want to listen to something too closely. That's going to be similar to the tone of what I'm doing because I just, I don't want to rip it off. You know, accidentally even so I don't listen to too much unless it's a style that I'm not super comfortable with. And in that case, I will I will study that style of music a lot to figure out okay, why does you know whatever. What, why does reggae sound like reggae what makes it that and then

Alex Ferrari 24:57
You start you start deconstructing it.

Cris Velasco 25:00
Yeah so that's when I like to listen to something or a couple years ago I did a game called Company of Heroes and you were playing it was a world war two game and this particular campaign was you were playing the Russians I mean yeah the Russians against the Germans and so the music needed to take on a Russian slant so I listened to just tons of Russian music and

Alex Ferrari 25:30
You were watching Rocky 4 obviously

Cris Velasco 25:33
Exactly.

Alex Ferrari 25:38
A lot of foreigner got it

Cris Velasco 25:41
So you know you figure out why you know, because Russian music has a sound like why why does it sound that way? So I you know, yeah, deconstructed it figured it out and tried to incorporate that into my own writing.

Alex Ferrari 25:54
Now do you write Do you read me You obviously you read music now? Yeah. And you write music as well.

Cris Velasco 26:01
And I write music what do you mean?

Alex Ferrari 26:02
Like you write it like you like you sit down and just draw those funny little things so I can have no idea I'm a complete idiot when it comes to music. Because I know I know that you can write like you can play music on a computer now and in the computer program a lot of times will write the music for you. So a lot of guys that I know of I've known other composers who don't actually know how to write write music, but the program does it for them.

Cris Velasco 26:28
Okay, well,

Alex Ferrari 26:30
I'm just saying

Cris Velasco 26:33
So I don't want to second write music because that's because I feel like composing is writing music but right notating music is sort of the you know putting the amps on the page

Alex Ferrari 26:45
On the page Perfect, perfect analogy

Cris Velasco 26:49
Oh yes, I can I can notate music but I don't really do it that much anymore. I know there's still composers out there that that will sit at a piano with their staff paper and a pencil and write it all out that's not really me. I do like to you know, sit at my computer and and play through the keyboard there and have it recorded notate for me as I play it and that's just the other way it's just too time consuming

Alex Ferrari 27:20
It's all it's it's a little bit more old school I gotcha.

Cris Velasco 27:23
Yeah. And you know, especially with film and even more so TV that the deadlines are just so insane that there's there's no way you could sit there and write everything out by hand.

Alex Ferrari 27:36
Now what are you looking for in a great collaboration with a director? Like how do you like to work with a director when they come in on a feature or on a on a narrative piece?

Cris Velasco 27:48
I really like guys that have a really good idea of what they want. Like I'm not so much of a fan of the Tell me oh just do what you want because that's it never works all say well, okay, well here's how I think it should go down. And usually they may not have an idea of what they want but they have an idea of what they don't want and so we'll go through so many iterations you know, finding all these things they don't want and then when you finally get down to it, they'll be like, you know, like the score to ROM Stoker's Dracula like that's what I like it's like, oh,

Alex Ferrari 28:32
Well I've been using Chitty Chitty Bang Bang as a reference.

Cris Velasco 28:39
So you know, a good idea of of the sound they're going for is something I really appreciate.

Alex Ferrari 28:47
Got it and then and then as far as uh you know how i mean i mean when we work together we did It's been a while since I don't remember the exact details but there was a lot of there wasn't a tremendous amount of revisions was there

Cris Velasco 29:00
No, I don't think so.

Alex Ferrari 29:01
No, I think we kind of we kind of vibed and we caught exactly because I was just always so impressed with whatever Chris showed up with I'm like oh wow, that's really great. Do you like to be challenged by the way do you like Do you like a director or a filmmaker to kind of like push you in like maybe a little bit more here there?

Cris Velasco 29:21
Yeah, I I've just I've done like, like in games I've done so many games I feel start to sound similar. Because there's just a style that a lot of people like and and so I am sort of looking for opportunities to be a little more creative. And I have some projects now where I feel like I can really do something different than what then what I'm used to and that is that's very rewarding. And it's you know, it's the only way you can grow as a composer is to be challenged.

Alex Ferrari 29:57
Yeah. being pushed. Now what would what can you explain to the, to the audience? Or to the tribe, if you will? How do you work with a sound mixer because I know this is a big, big thing a lot of filmmakers don't really understand is that, you know, a composer in the perfect world will go in and sit down during the mix, to kind of help the sound mixer. Work with the effects and how to you know, where the score hits higher or lower stuff like that. Can you explain that process a little bit?

Cris Velasco 30:30
Yeah, well, I don't even bother going to the mixes anymore because it How did the composer's ideas and wishes take a backseat to, to sound effects? And I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've written this, you know, huge music where I was asked, like, Oh, you got to make it huge. It's big, it's big. And then the whole thing is covered up by an explosion. And it's like, what, there's no point in even having music there. So I try to not score the big, the big climax things anymore, just because you can't even hear it. It's pointless,

Alex Ferrari 31:11
Right! Because it's just sound effects everywhere.

Cris Velasco 31:14
Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 31:16
Is that why Hans Zimmer's does that bong

Cris Velasco 31:20
That's through anything?

Alex Ferrari 31:22
Through my soul, that damn thing, because

Cris Velasco 31:26
I mean, like Interstellar, you know, you hear half the dialogue, because the music is so

Alex Ferrari 31:32
I know, right? The whole pesky dialogue and sound effects is just just hurting the movie really should all be just visuals and music. Maybe you could create a new genre of movie. So um, so you don't work. But when you work with me, we did do actually do that we actually had you walk in. And in a perfect world. The composer does have some sort of, I mean, there's a balancing point. I mean, obviously, it's not all about the music. But it has to be part of it. And it has to be depending on the scene, major part of it. So mixing it at a certain time. So you know, sound effects don't overpower music is ideal in a perfect situation, correct?

Cris Velasco 32:14
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's, you know, it really is music and sound effects is, is, is a marriage. And you know, like any marriage, there needs to be compromises. Right? And it can't be music all the time. And it can't be sound effects all the time. And the best movies are the ones where they really get that and spend a lot of time and energy finding that perfect balance.

Alex Ferrari 32:38
So when john Williams, Danny Elfman, or Hans Zimmer is there they're in the mix generally, is what you say.

Cris Velasco 32:44
Yeah, I would imagine that they've they're in the mix. Maybe not the entire time. Sure.

Alex Ferrari 32:49
But but some, but somewhere, yeah. Now, in your opinion, what does a great score do for a scene or film? And can you give us an example of when you thought a score just kind of like took it over the top?

Cris Velasco 33:06
Well, I mean, I think a score is, is great when it's enhancing the scene, like a lot of times people don't even notice that there's music. And that's generally good, because it means it wasn't sticking out in a bad way and detracting from the story. Because, you know, the music is just another voice. It's another character in the film. And, you know, it's like, if you had one annoying actor that was screaming all his lines, right? You know, it's like, oh, my God, the movie was great. But that one guy that was just screaming. So you know, music. I've definitely seen films where the music was that loud screaming guide, like, Oh, this is awful. Like, if there was ever a time for sound effects to take over. It was this one.

Alex Ferrari 33:55
All right. And these are big. I'm assuming these are big, big movies you're talking about?

Cris Velasco 34:00
Yeah, you know, I don't

Alex Ferrari 34:01
No don't name names, of course. But I mean, you want to work again. But But yeah, some big budget movies sometimes.

Cris Velasco 34:09
But, uh, oh, god, what the hell was I going to say? The Oh, so. So that's the, my idea of a good score is when? When it's just, it's just another player and the movie, it doesn't stand out. It really enhances the experience. Like you may not notice it's there. But if it was gone, you would definitely miss it.

Alex Ferrari 34:31
And then there's those wonderful cues that are legendary, like jaws.

Cris Velasco 34:35
Yeah, and then, exactly. And, you know, my favorite living composer is john Williams, like a lot of composers. And I, he's just a brilliant musician. And he's got such a, it's a little old school, maybe the way he he does things, but I absolutely love it.

Alex Ferrari 34:56
He's been nominated what like, like, I think like 50 times. For an Oscar, right? Something like that. Yeah, every year, every year he gets a nomination no matter what he does every year. Yeah,

Cris Velasco 35:07
Every year that he's written something there's been a few years, where he took a little hiatus from film. He wasn't nominated cuz he didn't have anything but

Alex Ferrari 35:16
And sometimes he's nominated twice in person. And then sometimes he's nominated twice in the same year. Like, I've seen that, too. It's, it's obscene. He's won, like, I think five or six times out of all those times, but it's insane.

Cris Velasco 35:29
Yeah, he's the real deal. Yeah, but he's the guy that comes to mind when I think of what makes a great score. And it's not only does it just enhance the scene, but there are those moments where the music comes in, and you just you get goosebumps, because it's just so good. And it just elevates what's on the screen and like one, like jaws perfect example. But the one that I think of is the is the bicycle saying at the end of et. Oh, coming in, it's like, oh,

Alex Ferrari 36:03
No, no, I get I get I get like goosebumps thinking about that. I still remember that. It's like a mate. Yeah, absolutely amazing. I thought one of the like, I mean, he's done we can talk about john for a second. He's done because I know him. Now he's done I mean, so many legendary scores, Star Wars Indiana Jones. What like one of the more recent recent being 15 years ago, when he did the Harry Potter score, because he only scored I think the first movie and then after that he don't think he's scored any of the other ones.

Cris Velasco 36:32
Its incorrect. He scored the first three

Alex Ferrari 36:34
First three. Exactly. Okay, thank you for correcting me, sir. But I know that that theme now will live on forever, because that's the theme of Harry Potter. But I just remember just thinking how beautiful that it just captured Harry Potter so beautifully. Just so so wonderfully. That I mean, but like, like we've talked about before and as and I think it was on the trip that you and I went to Comic Con. You got the jaws poster, right? Yeah, yeah, that when we went to Comic Con, he got a Chris bought a autographed john Williams poster. But he actually drew the notes for jaws theme on it. Yeah, pretty cool. Which is pretty cool. But that I mean, how many notes is that? It's like, three notes. Or two notes. How many notes? Is that for the jostein?

Cris Velasco 37:22
Well, it's a minor second. So if you think just like, well, now you're not gonna know what the hell E to F means. But hey, but, um, so that's obviously two notes. But then it goes, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, right? Right, really three notes. Right.

Alex Ferrari 37:38
So but that's how genius that is. Because that that's one of the most genius cute music cues in in all of movie history. I would

Cris Velasco 37:46
I love to in his interviews, how he always has a reason behind everything. He's not just sitting down like, Oh, that sounds cool. But apparently came over and was like, oh, here let me play the theme for jobs and in play, you know, this little two, three note motif. And instead was like, you know, what?

Alex Ferrari 38:12
I love that. Like, did you were you in the room? That's Buber goes What?

Cris Velasco 38:18
He kind of like looks off to the sides, like, Oh, I made a huge mistake. But, but then he you know, john Williams explains it as like, no, this shark. It's just a, an eating machine. it you know, it's just, it's just constantly on the hunt. It's, it's driven by this internal motor to just just hunt. And so it's this kind of perpetual motion thing. And so the this little bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump Bump, is that that's the shark. I mean, you don't want to get fancy. It's just it's it is what it is. And then so he describes that and then you know that Spielberg was like, Whoa, okay, you're right. And you know, now it's one of the most iconic film score themes ever.

Alex Ferrari 39:09
Oh, yeah. I mean, and but the thing is, he doesn't have one of those. He's got like, dozens.

Cris Velasco 39:14
It's not enough that he can just do one iconic theme. It's he's got it, you know.

Alex Ferrari 39:21
So let me ask you, what would be some advice? You can give a filmmaker when interviewing a composer? What are the things that he he or she should look for?

Cris Velasco 39:32
Yeah, well, I, you know,

Alex Ferrari 39:38
I mean, obviously, besides just calling you, but

Cris Velasco 39:43
Um, well, I would say like, have a passion for what they're doing. You know, it's not like, ah, I wanted to write string quartets, but they're not really taken off. So I thought I thought I'd try my hand at film school. And I hear there's a lot of money in that. Like those those kind of people just sort of make me crazy it's like a lot of people want to do games because all their you know, it's like hands low. They're so hot right now.

Alex Ferrari 40:15
Right? But they don't have a passion for the medium.

Cris Velasco 40:19
No, it's Yeah, it's like oh, so What games do you play? I don't like games, like well, why do you want to work in games? And that seems crazy. And same thing with film. Like, you know, you ask somebody like, oh, what's your favorite movie? And I don't really like going to the movies. Like oh really? For my film like

Alex Ferrari 40:38
So So in other words, look for someone who has passion for what they're doing in the medium that you're trying to have them compose if they've they've done if you if you're looking for a composer for documentary work, and they're really passionate about documentaries that's something you should look into and same thing for features or video games.

Cris Velasco 40:53
Yeah, I think so. Now and then you know, just see if you I like to work with people I kind of over the last few years have develops what I call my my no asshole policy,

Alex Ferrari 41:06
Oh, thank god you only develop that a few years ago, sir, if nobody would have never worked together,

Cris Velasco 41:10
You are grandfathered in. And I just sort of figured, God let life is too short. Like, I really love my job. And I don't want to bog it down working with people that I just don't enjoy. And, you know, no matter how good their project is, it's gonna stress you out, if you're working with somebody that you just don't get along with. And that's just not for me, I you know, I want to, I want to work with somebody who, you know, on the weekend, be like, hey, you want to grab a beer and, and you know, go see whatever new film and you know, if you can't do that, if I have no desire to see somebody, socially, besides just work, then I just kind of figured, you know, this project may not be for me. And if it's if you start to feel that way, then I don't see how you can do your best work.

Alex Ferrari 42:07
That makes perfect sense. And that's a good that's a good piece of advice that almost with any avenue of the business, you know, having being able to sit in a room with somebody is is sometimes more valuable than than talent you know, to a certain extent I'd rather have a like a genius aihole or a really good nice person I'll go with a really good nice person even though the other guy might be a genius, but his other issues

Cris Velasco 42:36
There are some composers that I think are genius angels and and you always wonder you know, I was asking an agent that represents one one time like hey, how come like this guy's so good? Why Why isn't he working? It seems crazy. And his agent was like well, because he's kind of an asshole he's like yeah, he's so amazingly talented and but that's why like people will kind of just fade away you're like, oh man, whatever happened to so and so it's like well, that guy just couldn't pull it together and be like a normal person he had to he had to ruin it.

Alex Ferrari 43:17
There's a few directors and actors I know of like that that have gone down that road.

Cris Velasco 43:24
Yeah. That no one wants to deal with it it's already you know hard enough it's a fun job it's it you know bring some serious stress to the table. And you know on my side like trying to be creative every day of hours a day it drains me and I don't want to I don't want to have to deal with some aihole on top of that,

Alex Ferrari 43:46
Right exactly no no question what you do what composers do is it's not like I said it's a magic trick to me it's it's magic to me because I it's something that's so far beyond anything I could ever do that I've just looked at it like my god it's just you know, like how do you just sit there and come up with something like on the fly it's pretty it's pretty remarkable

Cris Velasco 44:08
Well, you know, each each person has their own thing I feel the same way like I love art earlier you talked about what's you know what gets me going creatively and in art is one thing and I know you haven't been to the studio for a while but is

Alex Ferrari 44:25
No I it was it was obscene when I was there Well last time I was there Yeah, no, I know they buy they buy so much are you and your wife you guys buy so much art that now I think you've you've tacked it onto the ceiling because there's only so much more wall space you can actually use

Cris Velasco 44:42
Well that's next and and I kid you not I've had that discussion with her. And so

Alex Ferrari 44:48
Like, I mean, just a few on the ceiling. I mean, it's it's not a lot, just a few I think it will be. So um, so I wanted to ask you something about working with this legendary storyteller that you worked with. Clive Barker How was it working with someone of his magnitude because he's i mean he's a legendary writer and legendary storyteller and you got to work with him on Jericho the video game How was how was it working with someone like him Did you learn anything from him on a storytelling or a creative level We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show

Cris Velasco 45:32
I did learn from him and I'll try to make this short kind of a long story but like I absolutely adore Clive Barker and I this is a this is really a story of like my persistence and in the lengths I willing to go to work with the people I want to so I started out just being well before I was into music, I was a fan of his books and if I found out he was doing a book signing somewhere you know I would travel there to to go meet him get my book signed shake his hands and just be around you know one of my my creative idols and and then a few years down the road I started getting into music and and put together a little little demo reel on a on a CD which nobody does anymore.

Alex Ferrari 46:37
What is this CD thing you speak of?

Cris Velasco 46:42
All you know except vinyl is back now which only means cassettes are going to come back and then CDs will be back again

Alex Ferrari 46:48
A track maybe I'm holding out for a track

Cris Velasco 46:52
I just can't wait for the cassette boom and everybody learns how to tape boom.

Alex Ferrari 47:02
So you left them a demo?

Cris Velasco 47:04
Yeah, so well i saw i put something together Oh, it was just so awful. I've I shudder to think of what was on that now. Okay. And and plus back then technologies is not where it is today in terms of like producing something that sounds great coming out of your computer. So oh god it must have just been horrible. But I gathered up the courage to make this demo and then give it to him at a book signing and tell him Clive just so you know. We will work together one day

Alex Ferrari 47:40
You stalked him No, you had I you had I heart Clive Barker all over your Trapper Keeper sir okay.

Cris Velasco 47:53
I practice writing our names Yes exactly.

Alex Ferrari 47:58
It's like a twisted Heather's even more so.

Cris Velasco 48:04
And you know then two years later he another book came out and another book signing happens and so I brought him an updated demo and after all these times you know he started to remember me

Alex Ferrari 48:18
Security security there's he's here like the guy the Velasco is here again please security there's a picture of you out front and the book signings Don't let this guy in

Cris Velasco 48:34
Well, it could have easily gone that way but he was instead like so encouraging and and even told me whether this is true or not Oh, I listened to your your last CD I thought it was wonderful like I can't wait to see how you've progressed over the last couple years. I you know I'll listen to this in the car on my way home and that's pretty cool. And and yeah, you know, that's he didn't mean to do that. And Clive is in a position where he doesn't need to lie to some you know, 20 something year old about his stupid demo CD You know, he could just tell me to go to go eff off

Alex Ferrari 49:14
Don't don't don't be so hard on yourself.

Cris Velasco 49:18
But But he didn't is the point he's just a really a genuinely nice person. And so this continued on, you know, for last time, and then one day, I am I'm at my old apartment. So this is probably Oh gosh, like, maybe 13 years ago or so. And I get a call at home and it says private number or blocked call or whatever. And and the only people I knew that had that were my parents because they were scared of telemarketers so they blocked their their number. Okay? I always thought someone was calling in you know going to bother them at home so block number and and I was like oh it's my mom like okay, I better see what she wants and and answer it and it's Clive has a very unmistakable voice

Alex Ferrari 50:22
Yeah I know.

Cris Velasco 50:24
Very raspy and and so you would I wouldn't mistake it for anything and then suddenly there's Clive saying you know Hello Is this Chris This is Clive Barker and I you know my my legs literally buckled. I had to I had to take a seat because I felt like I almost blacked out just like First of all, how did he even get my number and he's Clive Barker and like Clive and Clive is calling me at home like what the hell is going on? And so we talked for a bit and he said well Chris you've been

Alex Ferrari 51:06
Please don't please don't contact me again Chris

Cris Velasco 51:08
Give me me hear your music for all these years. I've really enjoyed seeing you grow as a composer. I have a project coming up and I think it would be amazing to collaborate with you and I think this is the time where you finally get to say like yes we're working together so he said Chris if you're interested I would love to have you on as my composer and wow yeah after so I blacked out again. And no but so this was not Jericho It was a game call I forget what it was supposed to be called but they got cancelled so it was just devastating for me because well in for Clive as well he spent all this time developing this thing and so I got to go to his house and NBN on Creative meetings he wanted me there to like throw out I like musical ideas talking about so this is like a dream job for you like it was absolutely ridiculous like

Alex Ferrari 52:15
You would have paid him for this

Cris Velasco 52:19
Absolutely would have paid but so that got cancelled and it was just a huge bummer. And so I tried to stay in touch with them but nothing really came up and then yeah, maybe whenever Jericho was I was at like seven eight years ago or something or whatever. Yeah, but yeah, same thing I I get a call again. And Clive said hey, I've got this new game called Jericho it's gonna be amazing I want you to compose the music for it and and again it's like oh my god this is gonna be so rad and then a year goes by I told you I was gonna make a story short it's super long just stop me We'll just go Chris okay we get it we get it

Alex Ferrari 53:09
We get it we get a Chris so a year goes by you get you finally work with Clive but what

Cris Velasco 53:16
Yeah, that well the developer actually hired somebody else instead they decided no, we're not gonna hire press we're gonna hire this other guy because he's cheaper

Alex Ferrari 53:24
And then Clive went to bat for you.

Cris Velasco 53:27
And then yeah, a year later the game was almost done. They go to clubs house to to show him the progress in the game and he goes he goes What the hell is this music? That's like this first comment is like wait a minute What the hell is this music? Is this Chris Velasco like he couldn't believe it. He was just completely incredulous that I would I would write something so horrible. And they're like, No, we hired this other guy instead and Clive just blew up in and yeah, he was he was my 800 pound gorilla on this one. Like he told them literally told them if you don't hire Chris, you know, in the next 48 hours to rescore the game. I'm taking my name off the project. Wow. So they got in touch with me and you were in a good negotiating

Alex Ferrari 54:21
Position.

Cris Velasco 54:23
I was I found out later we could have asked for it anything would have happened but I'm glad I didn't take advantage because that's just not cool. All right. But by then so the the game was almost ready to ship. And so I had to score like two hours of music in about 12 days.

Alex Ferrari 54:48
Oh my god that's

Cris Velasco 54:50
And that included going up to Skywalker Ranch to record some choir

Alex Ferrari 54:55
And it's and it's the best thing you've ever done.

Cris Velasco 54:57
It but It was crazy. And that was really when I decided I don't want to do this crunch mode anymore if I don't have to, because it is a huge bummer.

Alex Ferrari 55:08
So what did you so what did Clive teach you give me a couple of like things that you kind of learned from him?

Cris Velasco 55:13
Well, just being around him he is, he's so positive. And he just like rate radiates creativity. And you just you go over there, if you're in any kind of creative slump, you will leave his house with just with like, a million ideas just bursting out of you're like, Oh my god, I have to go, I have to go create. He just, it's just this weird persona that he has. But I, I was at his house, we were talking about how the music for Jericho should sound. And, and I'm dead, he's painting while we're talking. We're down in his big art studio. He's throwing on soundtracks, stuff that he likes. And we're just talking about the game and about the sound of the game. And and then I was I was lamenting the fact that there was only, you know, two weeks to score this, and that we didn't have the budget to record a whole orchestra. And Clive was telling me He's like, you know, this is this is a mismanagement of of energy. Why complain about what we don't have? Because it's not going to change. So why don't you just focus on the positive, and write the best score you can and two weeks, and I've just any time now where I start to feel like I'm going to complain about something I just, you know, I just think about like, wait, why am I doing that? I can't change it. So if I can't do anything about it, why, like, bring all this negativity onto it, like, just move on and do the best with what you've got.

Alex Ferrari 56:54
That's amazing. That's amazing lesson. Most people go through life without learning that lesson.

Cris Velasco 57:00
Yeah, well, you know, I'm still learning it. But

Alex Ferrari 57:03
Yeah, we all are. So let me let me have a few more questions for you. Because I know you're a very busy man. I want you to name three composers that have influenced you the most and why.

Cris Velasco 57:18
All right. Well, I would start off with with Mozart. Because without his music, I don't think I would have ever begun composing in the first place. Okay. And Goggins got to give it up for john Williams. Obviously, I mean, just, I think what I get most out of him are just the just the colors of the orchestra, you know, he that he's able to produce, it doesn't sound like another generic action score, right? It just, and he doesn't really rely on any kind of electronics to, to add different, different sounds that way. I mean, you know, the orchestra is a pretty finite thing. There's only you know, so many different kinds of instruments that fit into a typical symphonic orchestra. But just the way john Williams orchestrates it, just it just sounds magical to me, and then pop that with his just kind of unparalleled ability to write melodies.

Alex Ferrari 58:33
How old is he now? He's like, 150 years old. I mean, that guy gave me when by the time he got to Star Wars, he already done like, 20 years of stuff.

Cris Velasco 58:41
I think he's like, 84 80s, I can't remember it's like, between 82 and 84, I believe,

Alex Ferrari 58:49
And he's still going and he's still like, the most well,

Cris Velasco 58:51
He just finished up, you know, BFG for Spielberg, so we've got another score, or Williams coming out this year,

Alex Ferrari 58:58
Another Oscar nod. And then who's there and who's the third guy?

Cris Velasco 59:03
Okay. Um, and then, you know, I have to say that John Powell has been really influence on me. Do you know John Powell?

Alex Ferrari 59:16
I don't know. John Powell. I thought it was gonna be Danny Elfman, honestly, but

Cris Velasco 59:20
Well, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, of course, there's so many composers that have had an influence on me but but john Powell did just because of the way that he blends traditional orchestra with electronics, okay. I mean, everybody does this now, but, but he was one of the first guys him and Skye Harry Gregson Williams, they just did it so well. And so tastefully, and, and still do to this day, and, and for me, like trying to learn that that hybrid orchestra meets electronic They really like trying to light on that for me

Alex Ferrari 1:00:03
Very cool now these are the last three questions is the one that I asked every every one of my guests so what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn in life or in the film business

Cris Velasco 1:00:18
Well okay I'll there's one that I'm still learning at so I guess that's the longest one and that is to just take some me time. I work a lot and I don't often give myself weekends and I always feel like I'm slipping behind if I don't work on a weekend and I enjoy what I do sometimes I just like to do it but I really I don't want to look back and think why didn't I spend more time you know with my friends and family or or traveling or whatever because there's so much to do and see and I I sometimes get wrapped up in the whole like I just got it I just got to work.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:08
Got it. Now what are the three your three favorite films of all time and that could be today? It doesn't have to be like you know, I'm not no no pressure just three of your favorite films.

Cris Velasco 1:01:19
Okay. favorite film was Empire Strikes Back

Alex Ferrari 1:01:23
Obviously.

Cris Velasco 1:01:26
I think my second favorite film is The Big Lebowski Okay, good choice. And I mean those two movies I've seen more than anything else

Alex Ferrari 1:01:36
And they both really encompass your personality you combine those two films the vibe of both of them and you got Chris Velasco I think

Cris Velasco 1:01:48
I guess I have kind of a you know you're kind of a dude you're on the Yeah, I'm sort of the dude at home

Alex Ferrari 1:01:54
You are the dude but yet but yet you have an AD AD in your on your desk so yeah, that makes sense.

Cris Velasco 1:02:02
And then third film there man there's so many films that I love but if I had to pick a third favorite I'd probably say Raiders of Lost Ark

Alex Ferrari 1:02:13
Very good very good. Now originally we were talking about was weekends and Bernie weekend Bernie's two Sister Sister Act Two and what was the third one?

Cris Velasco 1:02:24
Everybody to Air Bud to

Alex Ferrari 1:02:27
You just only like two's

Cris Velasco 1:02:29
Yeah, so that those really would have come I think Empire Strikes Back as my first like oh the sequel is always better movie and and sure enough it is man you give me Air Bud Sister Act and Weekend at Bernie's too and

Alex Ferrari 1:02:43
It's a party party. So Chris, where can people find you?

Cris Velasco 1:02:51
Well, my website is monarchaudio.com. Okay, um, find me on Twitter which I believe is monarch audio. And or you can just look me up on on Facebook. I have a fan page there that's that's the music of Chris Velasco. I think

Alex Ferrari 1:03:10
I like when you talk about yourself in the third person that's nice

Cris Velasco 1:03:15
George is getting upset. Good reference. Yeah, honestly, though, I I always forget to update it, and I feel bad. And so you need to get people you need to get up on on Facebook that CRS know ah, God. But yeah, if you want to listen to any music, I'm redoing my website right now. It's still it's up and running. But it's missing a little content. But it's all a bunch on there.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:46
And if anyone's looking to hire you, they can find your agents information on on the website, right? There's on the website. Fantastic, Chris, man, thank you so much for taking the time out. I really appreciate it was it was a joy speaking to you again.

Cris Velasco 1:03:59
Yeah, well, thank you, man. And, you know, I thought I'd made a huge mistake. All those years ago when we met. Turns out it was only a slight mistake.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:12
Thanks, brother.

Cris Velasco 1:04:13
All right, talk to you later.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:15
Man. I love working with Chris man. He is awesome. I've worked with him on multiple projects. And I hope you got a little bit of insight of what it's like to work with a composer, especially composer of Chris's statute who's been doing this for quite some time and has worked on some very very big projects. And as we move forward on this is Meg and me working with Chris will definitely keep you updated on what what we're doing and how we're working together and that will hopefully be as well in the indie film syndicate. Micro budget filmmaking masterclass. That is, this is Meg. So don't forget to head over to indiefilmsyndicate.com that's indiefilmsyndicate.com And check out the over 40 hours of online filmmaking courses, ebooks, articles, the entire indie film hustle podcast library at your disposal. And we're going to be adding new courses and new content every month to the new community. So definitely check it out indie film syndicate.com. And of course, if you want to help us out on this is meg, just head over to thisismeg.com. We're going to be going until July 21st 30 days, so anything you guys can do for us, please, please, please help us out, I would really, really, truly appreciate it. And don't wait to the end, please, we have some really cool incentives like autographed pictures of James Cameron for my private collection as well as my autograph book of the fall by Guillermo del Toro, which he actually does a character as well, as well as being a guest on the indie film, hustle podcast, if you have a film that you want to promote, or a company or yourself or you just want to come down and come on the show and just chat about film geek stuff. That's a possibility, all you have to do is look at that incentive and hit us up. So thank you guys so much. I really hope you're learning a whole lot from this process that I'm going through with this as Meg I'll be continuously putting out more and more new stuff as I go through this journey together. And thank you, by the way, thank you for giving me the courage to to go out and do this because honestly, I'm doing this not only for myself to make my first feature film, but I'm also doing it so I can share that experience with you guys. So I'm not sure if I would have gone through with it without having you guys around to share this with so I do truly appreciate that. And of course the Show Notes for this episode are indiefilmhustle.com/082. As promised, I'm going to now close out the show with Chris's Star Wars demo, which is quite remarkable. So keep that hustle going keep that dream alive. And may the force be with you!

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IFH 081: Top 10 Tips to Launch a Film Crowdfunding Campaign

So today is the day. The THIS IS MEG Film Crowdfunding Campaign is LIVE! Click here to check it out: Down the Filmmaking Rabbit Hole.

I’ve been working for months on this campaign and am very proud of what I and the team have done. So below I wanted to share the Top Ten Tips I have learned from the many experts, guests and successful campaigns I’ve reviewed in prepping for my launch.

Before we get into the tips, here is the final trailer for the film This is Meg, the project we crowdfunded and used as a case study.

I’ll go in greater detail on all these topics in the podcast so definitely take a listen: Top 10 Tips to Launch a Crowdfunding Campaign Podcast


Top 10 Tips to Launch a Film Crowdfunding Campaign

Assemble a Team Ahead of Time: You are not an island! You need a group of amazing people who are willing to help you on this journey. Check out our Launch Team for THIS IS MEG – Click here

30-day campaigns work best: Of all the film campaigns that met their goals, 32.71% of them ran their campaigns for 30-39 days, while only 13.87% of successful campaigns ran for 60 days.

Keep your campaign page updated: On average, successful film campaigns post 5 updates. Updates can include anything from press mentions, new incentives, celebrity endorsements, events, – anything that you think your community would be interested in. After all, your contributors are giving their money to help bring your film to the screen, so naturally, they’ll be interested in any updates you provide. Continually updating your campaign page is one of the best ways to keep your community and fans involved in the process.

Estimate Costs Carefully: So many filmmakers just pull a budget out of their butts. Breakdown what you really need for your entire filmmaking journey.

Study Successes and Failures: I studied sooooooo many campaigns before we launched. I took courses (see the free crowdfunding campaign below) and analyzed both successes and failures.

Give Fans An Inside Look: People want to be part of the process. Bring them into your process, your filmmaking craftsmanship.

Add New Perks through the Campaign: One unique aspect of film campaigns is that filmmakers have a huge range of creativity for your incentives. From signed memorabilia to meet-and-greets to set visits, you have lots of ways to incentivize your backers to help you reach your goal.

Include affordable perks: Don’t make the incentives for the private skyboxes, create incentives for the bleachers too. Make the journey accessible to all who want to join the trip.

Include a pitch video: For God’s sake make a good pitch video. I go into a ton of detail on this in the podcast. Check out our pitch video and let us know what you think:

Build an Audience & Networking: I can not stress the importance of building an audience before you launch. Not only that but also know where the audience for your film hangs out online so you can reach them.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:00
I wanted to today's topic, which I think was is very appropriate is the top 10 tips on how to launch a crowdfunding campaign for your film project. And like I said, I've been doing a lot of studying and I've been taking a lot of courses and analyzing a lot of different campaigns. So these are top 10 tips of things that I found to be useful and pretty much agreed upon by all the experts as well. So let's get right to it. So tip number one is assemble a team ahead of time, I've actually been putting together a small launch team to help me launch today to get the word out and they're kind of like the army they're the this is Meg army, the indie film, hustle tribe army going out there and hopefully posting, announcing to all of their fans all of their communities to to get the word out. So it's really helpful to build that team ahead of time now that's part of the launch team, then you have to have a core team of people behind you, whether that be a group of friends, who are taking different areas of the launch, whether like okay, you're going to handle social media, you're going to handle graphics, you're going to handle videos, you're going to handle all this kind of stuff. So you should have team members organize with that and that and that should be hopefully people in your film crew, whether that be your producers, your writer, whoever can do the job properly. But you have to do this with a launch with a team It's very, very difficult to do this by myself by yourself. And trust me, I do a lot of things by myself. But when it came to this campaign, I am bringing in the the big guns, if you will. So definitely assemble a team way before, I would say at least 30 to 60 days before you launch would be helpful. Second tip is that 30 day campaigns work the best they are historically the most successful in campaign a film campaign. So don't go to a 45 or 60 day or 90 day for God's sakes, it's too long to maintain that campaigns too long to keep that that flow going. 30 days is free, it takes forever. So Believe me, I would definitely stick to a 30 day campaign. All the statistics say that that works the best. So definitely do that. Tip number three, keep your campaign page updated. So definitely update your your page as often as you can with what's going on what's happening with your movie, what's happening with the the crowdfund campaign and all that kind of stuff, as well as prepare ahead of time for stretch goals, because a lot of filmmakers underestimate what they think they can get and get that stretch goal ready because let's say you put out I only need $40,000 for to make my movie. And all of a sudden you get 40,000 in a week, well, what are you going to do for the next three weeks, you've got to create stretch goals. And then you have to understand what those stretch goals are going to do. You have to tell your your community what those stretch goals are for. So you can hopefully get more money and make a better movie. God, I hope all of you have this problem that you've made too much money and have no idea what to do with it. So let's all pray and hope that that is the problem. Now Tip number four, estimate your costs very carefully. A lot of times, filmmakers will just throw out a number kind of like pulling it out of there. But like is $40,000. Well, what is that $40,000 for and is that going to be enough to get you through the gambit get you through the journey of making your film, and is it going to be just for pre production, production, post production, marketing expenses, deliverables, distribution, expenses, all that kind of stuff has money attached to it. So if you're only going to do one campaign, which I suggest you don't do just one campaign, that's why you see the spark, because you can actually do it per category. So let's say you start off at pre production, production and post production, deliverables, and so on. But if you are only going to do one campaign to raise all of your money, make sure you estimate your costs very, very, very carefully. Tip number five study successes and failures. So I have been, I'm the kind of guy I think you guys know by now that I go deep down that rabbit hole, and anything I do or attempt to do. So I been watching so many pitch videos, so many analyzing so many different campaigns over the course of the last 30 to 60 days, to see what works, what doesn't work, how they lay their, their, their campaign page out how they put their videos together, what worked for certain genres, what worked for didn't work for certain genres and what failed miserably. And what was great successes. So definitely study people that have done this before, so you can learn from them. One campaign I loved was Kung furious campaign. If you haven't looked it up. If you ever know about Kung Fury, just type in Kung Fury, and you'll see it it's a pretty cool campaign. And what that guy has been able to do with that project, since the campaign is pretty pretty crazy. So definitely check that one out. Tip number six, give your fans an inside look. Now by giving your fans an inside look I mean like shooting behind the scenes videos. With you can Snapchat you can use Facebook Live or periscope to give them a real inside look to your projects. I've taken it to to the extreme by creating an entire membership site that will be giving them the entire educational journey of what we're doing with this is Max, I've taken that concept and really just put it on steroids and just gone full blown with it. But you don't have to go that big. I would say I would suggest that just you know, uploading videos showing people who you are what you're doing, really connect with them on an emotional human level. You're an artist, and you should be connecting with your fans in that way. So showing them how you're crafting a scene what you're doing, how you're doing it is very, very fun for a lot of people. And what might seem boring to you, because you've might have done it a bunch of times is super exciting to someone who's never seen it before. So definitely give them an inside look now seven Tip Number seven, add new perks throughout your campaign. So as we go forward through our campaign, we're going to be adding new perks based on what we kind of feedback we get from our community. from you, the tribe and and also Julie's fans and all the other people that we're going to hopefully gather and get the word out on the on the campaign. So we have a bunch of other perks kind of lined up, but also a lot of other people like, Hey, we really would like to get tickets to the, to the, to the premiere of the movie, or something along those lines. So we'll create those perks as we get forward and also up by updating and putting new perks in it. It keeps things a little fresh, and people get more excited about certain things. And believe me a 30 day campaign is a it's a marathon. So you have to do things to keep things going. After also doing my my research, I found that the most successful campaigns on all platforms added at least between 10 to 15 new perks throughout their campaign, as other perks fill up are gone, they keep adding new things to keep things really exciting and fresh. Now, tip number eight include affordable perks. So you know, a lot of people can't throw down 100 bucks, 200 bucks, 500 bucks or 1000 bucks or higher. But they might be able to throw in 1015 bucks, 15 bucks, 20 bucks, five bucks. And you should make things available up to like between a $5 and $30 range. Another little side tip on incentives or perks is at $25, you've got to give them access to the movie. Like that's kind of shady if you don't. So whether that be a DVD, whether that be a digital download now when it when they get access to it, it's a whole other story because you have to wait for distributions and so on and so forth. But you will, you will have to give them access to your movie at one way shape or form, whether that'd be private links through Vimeo or through your own distribution platform, whatever it might be, have to give them access to your movie at the $25 or above, incentive or perk. And also guys, when you're doing these incentives, make sure you do your math man because a lot of people will you know we'll spend say all we're going to give you a DVD, and I'm going to give you a T shirt at 25 bucks. And I'm like with T shirts costing you 10 bucks to make and your DVDs cost you another five bucks to make five or 10 bucks to make, let's say let's say let's say that you're not doing a big run of DVDs, and you're going to spend six bucks to make seven bucks to make a DVD and 10 bucks to make a T shirt because you're not making 1000 of them. Well that's 17 bucks, don't forget the commission that the the form the platform is going to take which can be anywhere between three to 7% off the top. And then and then on top of that you've got to ship this stuff. So then you have to take care of shipping as well. So all of a sudden that $25 donation turns into either $1 donation or actually you lose money in the donation so please do your math on on your perks and incentives. Because if you don't just gonna just shoot you're gonna shoot yourself in the foot and it's not gonna make a lot of sense. Now, I know this next tip This is Tip Number nine is it's going to seem very, very rudimentary or obvious, but I'm gonna say it anyway, include a pitch video, you got to include a pitch video guys don't, don't launch a campaign without a pitch video and send it consider that you guys are not making that transforming pen that makes your coffee kind of product you're making a film. So that stuff your pitch video better look good, better sound good, because the quality of your pitch video will tell your fans or potential donators or contributors, the quality of the movie. So if you make a really crappy pitch video, they're gonna go well if they made a really crappy video, they're probably gonna make a really good movie. So why am I going to send you know, donate any money or contribute any money to this campaign. So you really got to make it look good sound is super huge, guys. It's not a big deal to get good sound. You could either borrow a good decent mic, you know, on Amazon. I know a lot of filmmakers out there are like a bare budget but the mic you're listening to right now is an audio technica mic that I bought on Amazon for like 79 bucks. And it's amazing. It's a USB or, or XLR mic, and it's 79 bucks. And it sounds just like you're hearing right now it sounds awesome. So you could either put it right above you with a boom pole that cost you another 3040 bucks a really cheap one and have someone hold it or you can you know, you know, rig it somehow. So it's just above you and get it really close to your to your mouth as close as you can while being out of frame. And you've got good audio now you can record that directly into your camera, but I would record it into something like a little Tascam or a little zoom or something like that. That will that will give you good audio and I can give you a whole we're going to talk all about audio inside the syndicate about that but those are just quick tips on a really good audio. And I say that because audio is the one thing that people tend not to forgive, they'll forgive bad picture but they will not forgive bad audio. So and I've seen so many pitch videos that the Audio was just bad. And they might have good images. But the audio was bad. I'm like, Guys, can you get a frickin mic for God's sakes? So sorry, I'm going off on a tangent. Make sure you you make it look as good as possible. Don't make it so polished that you're like, Well, why the hell do we need money. If these guys can do all this crazy stuff, just make it, make it real, make it good, make it fun and interactive. Watch a ton of videos. I'm also going to put a link in the show to show notes, this amazing course that Emily best. And the good folks over at Seton spark put together, it's a free course, on YouTube, I put them all up on indie film, hustle, there's about 11 classes of five minutes each or something like that, that takes you through the entire gambit of how to actually put together a really successful crowdfunding campaign. And I would advise everybody who's going to do a crowdfunding campaign, whether you're going to do with seed and spark, or Indiegogo or Kickstarter, watch that video, watch that course. It's really, really, really, really good. So the last tip, tip number 10. build an audience. I can't tell you how much I have to impress upon you. You need an audience guys. I always say it. But when you're going to try to crowdfund you better have an audience are understand where the audience for your movie is. So if you're making a horror movie, go to all the horror, Facebook groups, go to all the four horror forums, do all of that and just see where they hang out and then ask them during the process. Hey, guys, I'm making a horror movie, what would you guys like to see in it, and start building that community up, start building up that excitement of people like oh, wow, this would be great, I'll do this or do that. And all of a sudden, they're they're invested in your project, before you've ever they've ever even donated a dime. So that's a good way. And this takes time guys just takes, if you're just doing it for a specific movie, it could take, it could take three, four or five months, I would suggest at least six months to a year prior to start building it up. And then as you get closer and closer start doing it, you could do it probably within a six month time period. Anything shorter than that, as far as building it to a big point is going to be harder. But even if you have 30 days to 60 days, at least understand where everybody is. And at least that way you can target them very specifically when you're going after the your your core audience. But ideally, is to build an audience. It's taken me about nine months or so now, to build an amazing audience with almost 10 months now to build an amazing, amazing audience with the tribe with you guys in the film hustle tribe. And you know, I hope that it all works out. And you guys helped me out with this project with all the great stuff that I've given you over the past almost year. But that's the goal is you provide hopefully you can provide valuable content value to your audience in one way, shape, or form. And again, like I've said before, it doesn't have to be tutorials or podcast talking about the making of or something like that. It could be humor, look at Kung Fury, their their campaign was amazing. their social media is amazing. And they're just showing you they're basically providing value in entertainment, and making you laugh and making you smile and making you nostalgic for wonderful 80s cheese, if you will. So that definitely guys build that audience up. So you can hopefully tap that audience to help you make your movie and sustain you through many other projects that come and I did study many filmmakers who have done not one, not two, but five or 10 different crowdfunding campaigns that have crowdfunded multiple projects for them, whether they be TV series, or web series, short films, feature films, Doc's all all just they people continue to follow them because they love what they're doing. So that is a very big, big, big tip. Tip number 10. And then as a bonus one guys, network. I know that sounds weird, but just network network with other sites network with other people who can help you in your genre or what you're trying to do with your crowdfunding campaign. So if you are doing like, I always use a horror because it's easy. But if you're doing a horror movie, it would be beneficial for you to kind of build relationships with horror film, websites, you know, or horror sites, sites that will love what you're doing. And that's what I've been doing with. With indie film hustle. I've actually networked with a ton of different filmmaking websites. I'm going to be launching I think today with at least two if not three, podcast, talking about the indie film syndicate, this is mag the crowdfunding campaign, the whole ball of wax, because I've been able to build up those relationships over the course of the last almost year or so. So it's been, it's something that you should definitely look into. If you're trying to do a crowdfunding campaign. Definitely network with people or websites organizations within the genre, or kind of project you're trying to do. So that's it. Guys, those are the top 10 plus a little bit more tips on how to launch a crowdfunding campaign. And we will be going through, as I said, in the film's indie film syndicate, and also in podcast and other things like that articles over the course of the next 30 days talking about how the crowdfunding campaign is doing what I'm doing to promote it. If you guys really want to see some cool and innovative, I think innovative marketing techniques on how to push a crowdfunding campaign out there. definitely keep a close eye on our social media, and our on our Facebook page, our Twitter page, specifically, but also on our Facebook page, our Pinterest, Instagram, and so on. Because I'm going to be doing some stuff I've never seen before. And I'm really curious to see if it's gonna work. But I'm gonna do some cool stuff and just keep an eye out. And I'll tell after the campaign is over, I will release all of my secrets. I will talk I'll do a podcast about it. And just kind of tell you guys, some of the highlights of what happened with the with the crowdfunding campaign and what marketing techniques worked, and what marketing techniques did not work. But I hope that this episode, and my whole experience going through this, this whole crowdfunding campaign is that it's not this mountain, this massive mountain that you can't climb yourself to create your own projects, guys, I mean, even if you're trying to raise $2,000, for a short film $1,000 for a short film, you can do it, it's not out I mean, you you believe it or not, there you have, you have a community already, it's your friends and family. And then from there, you start building off that as your foundation, and then you start building up a lot farther and farther and farther. And you provide more and more value out there for other people. Again, don't forget that value is so important, provide value provide an outlet for them, I can't tell you how much help I've gotten purely because of having a you know, a very big filmmaking podcast, or having indie film, hustle calm, you know, because I've been able to build up this audience. It is super, super important, guys. So provide that value, and doors will open for you. I guarantee it, trust me, I guarantee it. So this is doable, guys, you can do it, there's no question about it. I'm talking a lot of smack now because I haven't even you know, we don't even know how much money we're gonna make with this in my fall flat on its face. And that's the exciting part about this whole journey for me, man, you know, I am putting myself out there in a big, big way, I can fail miserably, I can make a hike it, I cannot raise the money for the campaign, I can, I can make a horrible, horrible movie, I can, you know, that's not going to do well, I there's a lot of things that I can just fall flat on my face, but you know what, I'm going to do it, and I'm going to be brave, and whatever, I'm going to let the chips fall where they may and I have a confidence in myself, and what I'm able to do to hopefully make a really, really amazing film, and hopefully raise enough money to make that film in the way that I want to make it and we're not asking for a lot of money, it's really a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things a 10 to $15,000 feature film, with the kind of cast that we have is is very, very small. So I'm hoping that that somebody else sees the value of what we're trying to do. So thank you guys so much for for all your support. And again, anything you can do to help with the making of this mag whether that'd be promoting it through your social media, or, or donating even as small as five bucks or as big as I think 20 $500 is our biggest incentive right now. Please do so it really would help a lot and it would mean personally a tremendous amount to me. So thank you, thank you so much. Again, those websites are this is mag comm to go and check out our crowdfunding campaign. See how I lay it all out by the way watch it look at it, because trust me, what I did was studying a lot of different successful campaign so whatever you see there is a combination of all of these elements from all these other really successful campaigns. So definitely take a look at how I laid everything out. Take a look at our pitch video. See how we created that pitch video. I'm going to do in the syndicate, we're actually going to do a whole breakdown on how and why we created the how we edited the video how we shot the video, how we went back and did reshoots for the video, how we did different edits so you can kind of see the progression of from the original take edit one to the final version so you can see what we cut out how we tightened it, how we grew it and so on. So take a look at our pitch video and learn from what we did again in my fall flat on our face. But again, this is based off of a lot, a lot of research. So definitely take a look Got it. This is mag comm if you want the show notes for all those links I was talking about, as well as the link to this amazing mic that I'm talking on. Go to indie film hustle comm Ford slash 081. And of course if you want to check out the indie film syndicate, go to indie film syndicate calm, that's indie film, syndicate s YNDICA t.com. Thank you guys so so, so much. I really, really humbly appreciate everything you guys have done, and hopefully we'll be doing in the next 30 days for for indie film hustle for the tribe. And for for this humble filmmaker just trying to make his first feature film. Keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive, and I'll talk to you soon.

YOUTUBE VIDEO

IFH 080: FREE Crowdfunding Course & Why I Choose Seed & Spark.com

With all the choices out there to crowdfund your film, it can get kinda crazy! Kickstarter and Indiegogo are the two Goliaths in the arena with Seed&Spark.com playing David. If you know the story the two Goliaths don’t fear David but this David has a hella of a punch.

I choose Seed and Spark to crowdfund my new feature film THIS IS MEG, because of a few reasons:

  • They have a 75% Success Rate (2 times any other platform)
  • The average raise is $17K (2.5 times any other platform)
  • Their average fee is only 3% (40% Less than anyone else)
  • They guarantee distribution if you hit a certain benchmark

How is this possible you ask, well it’s because they focus on one thing…FILMMAKERS. They don’t crowdfund for the next transforming coffeemaking pen. Seed and Spark are all about indie filmmakers and creating independence for film artists. Take a listen to this episode and find out how we are putting our crowdfunding campaign together for THIS IS MEG using this awesome platform.

When you’re done listening to the episode take a look at the remarkable FREE Crowdfunding Course created by Seed & Spark to entertain, educate and make you a truly “independent” filmmaker.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:00
Now, I wanted to talk a little bit about this because as filmmakers I want to ns as part of what I do with indie film, hustle, I want to give you guys as much information and as much advice and help as I can in your filmmaking journey so you guys can achieve the goals that you're setting out for yourself. And a lot of times, there's a lot of misinformation out there a lot of mixed messages out there. And I just want to give you my point of view of why I'm using seed and spark as opposed to the other two big boys. Now, before I start this episode, I want to let you guys know, seed and spark has not paid me a dime, and is not giving me anything. For me doing this podcast, I don't even know if they're even aware that I'm doing this podcast right now. I just want to do this from the heart because I love what they're doing, and how they're doing it. And I will show you hopefully a successful campaign at the end of this 30 day journey with this is mag, but a few reasons why I wanted to jump on seed and spark as opposed to the other guys their success rate, they have a 75% success rate, which is two times better than any other platform out there. Because they focus on filmmakers seed and spark is focused on filmmakers not the next fountain pen that transforms into a transformer or a robot that you know boils a cup of coffee for you. They focus specifically on filmmakers, and helping filmmakers get their stories funded. And also distributed which I'll get to in a minute, the average raise on the site is $17,000. So the average average raise of money is 17 grand, which is two and a half times more than any other platform out there. And they average the average fee that they take is 3% which is 40% less than any other platform out there. So those three are huge reasons. One of the three of the big reasons I chose them. But one of the other things I love about what Emily and Sina spark is doing is they are the first platform where a successful crowdfunding campaign means that you'll get distribution. So if you launch your campaign with them, and you get at least 500 followers, on your seed and spark page, you're guaranteed distribution through Netflix, iTunes, Hulu, Google Play Amazon, Instant Video Time Warner, Comcast, Cox, Verizon, FiOS, and VUDU all because you use their platform, Kickstarter and Indiegogo do not offer anything like that, you know, it is insane. They also provide a filmmaker gift box that contains over $8,000 in product services and festival waivers to help you on your filmmaking journey, I mean, and again, you have to get up to 500 followers to get that but it's pretty damn cool that there that's accessible to you where the other guys don't do it. Now, unlike Kickstarter, you don't need to reach your entire goal to get the money, you need to get at least 80% of your goal. And Indiegogo, you don't have to reach your goal, you get whatever you get. But I think the 80% rule is really, really cool. And there's no hard way of getting that and I'll explain to the explain to you in a minute why. The other really cool part of the platform is that unlike the other guys, you get to not only ask for money, but you can ask for wishlist items, kind of like a wedding registry or baby registry, where you ask for items that have a value associated with them. So if you want to, if you need a lens for your camera, well, if you're gonna go rent that lens or buy that lens, let's say it, let's say you're going to buy the lens and it's going to cost you 20 $500, or you're going to rent it, it's going to cost you 250 bucks to rent for the week. But you can ask to borrow that lens for the week from somebody who has it. And when somebody wants to support you, and they'll let you borrow it, that's $250 worth of value there. If you want to ask for someone to help you cook meals for the crew, get an offer. And also wish list crew members like a boom operator or a cinematographer, or a colorist or anything like that. They can offer their services for you if they really liked the project. So these are really quick ways to achieve your final goal. As opposed to just hard earned cash. The wishlist does have a value to it, as well. So I think that is so so cool. And so innovative for for filmmakers, because a lot of times filmmakers might not be able to give you cash, but they might have a house for a location that they'll let you use and that's also extremely valuable. So again, that's one of the other reasons and really fun reason why I wanted to use seed and spark as well as the crowdfunding platform for this is Meg. I have not crowdfunded before I have crowdfunded. Well, let me rephrase that. I did crowdfunding once before, and I used Indiegogo at that time, and this is going back probably about five years. And I put up an ad and I was asking for 2500 bucks to finish one of my short films. That was the animated short film read princess blues Genesis. And a day later, I got an email from somebody Who said, Hey, I'll just pay you everything. I just want to be a project associated with the project. And I was like, wow, okay, great. This is how crowdfunding works. And that was the only experience I ever had with crowdfunding. So ever since then it's there's a lot more information out here about crowdfunding, and it's an art, and there's a lot more noise out there. So I'm hoping that I provide I'm providing enough value for helping, you know, helping us to make this movie. And in turn by you helping us make this movie, you're able to see how we make this movie and learn from our mistakes, and from our victories on how we make this movie, how to make a micro budget movie in today's world, with today's technology, all the way through distribution. So those are a few short reasons why I absolutely love Emily and seed and spark and what they're doing. And they also have a free crowdfunding course that they have on their YouTube page that they just released a few weeks ago. And I told them, I wanted to promote the hell out of it, because it's something that everybody who's ever even thinking about crowdfunding. Regardless if you're going to go on seed and spark or not, I would say you should. But regardless of that, they are remarkable. It's a remarkable course it tells you everything from the very beginning, all the way to the very end. They also provide you a crowdfunding to build your independence Handbook, and education deck, which helps you build independence again, they're really about build you building your own independence as an artist and as a filmmaker and to make a living doing so. And that is a message that rings so true to my core principles and beliefs at indie film, hustle, and I think it was just a synergetic combination working with seed and spark on this is Meg. So if you want to go on the journey with me, and with that this is make family and see how we actually go through this whole crazy process of crowdfunding a micro budget film, head over to this is mag comm which will be live next week on June 21. And and if you want to check out the indie film syndicate, just head over to indie film syndicate Comm. And check that out as well. And you can kind of see what we go through with this whole process. And it is going to be a process without question. So and also on a side note, guys, I might be a little late like I am with this podcast. I know I usually release on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I might be a little late during this, this crowdfunding campaign. I'm running a lot of heads, I'm shooting a little bit of the movie, I'm putting the crowdfunding campaign together, I'm creating marketing elements. I'm also creating content for indie film, hustle, as well as doing podcasts, living a life having a family and so on. So bear with me, if the podcasts are a day or two late, they I'm hoping and I'm still aiming for two a week, at least for the next month. And then when the crowdfunding campaign is over, I might drop down to one a week, purely so I can focus on getting this as make done and also feeding the indie films and syndicate to make sure you guys are getting all the value that I can give you guys as well. But don't worry, I will continue to do two episodes a week. I know a lot of you guys need me on your long commutes to work and back or on your jog. And I really from the bottom of my heart guys thank you for all the outpouring of love and and support for this is Meg and the project and everything you guys are the reason I keep going sometimes, you know, I'm here killing myself trying to get this crowdfunding campaign going but I stopped for an hour so I can do this podcast and get it out for you guys because I know it's something you guys want and need. And I'm here for you guys. So thank you again so much. As always head over to filmmaking podcast calm and leave us an honest review guys, it really helps us out a lot. And moving forward head to this is mag comm for at least the next four to five weeks. And please help us out with the crowdfunding campaign and check out all the insane incentives one incentive that you guys might be interested in? Well, there's a few but then we're going to be doing incentives like an executive producer credit and associate producer credit with IMDb credits, accordingly, a post production workflow consulting phone call so I can kind of help you work through any of your workflow issues or actually help you create a workflow for your Feature or Short Film dinner with myself and Julie in LA. We do not pay for flight or our lodging sir, but we will pay for the meal and and a really cool one is I'm offering a few guest spots on the indie film hustle podcast. So if you want to come on board, and be a guest on the show and talk about yourself, your projects your company, promote your stuff as well as just talk shop talk filmmaking stuff. Questions whatever, you'd be a guest on the show and you'll be broadcast out to everybody. So it'd be a really great way for me to to talk with you guys and have you guys on the show and hopefully help out the campaign as well so it's a win win for everybody so I thought that would be a nice little incentive I kick out to everybody as well. And as you know, we have autographed this and you know, we've got tons of, you know, rare memorabilia from movies that the cast have done and so on and so forth. So really, really, really cool stuff so definitely check it out. This is mag.com and that'll be live again June 21. And you can check out everything I discussed in the show notes at indie film hustle.com forward slash 080 or zero 80 and you can check out the links to see the spark the campaigns and everything else we spoke about and seed and spark AC to spark calm guys, definitely check them out and I will be putting links to all of the videos in the online course because it is in sane really, really definitely check it out. As always guys keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive, and I will talk to you soon.

YOUTUBE VIDEO

LINKS

SPONSORS

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IFH 079: From Micro Budget to Million Dollar Budget Films with Christian Sesma

Many indie filmmakers dream of going from micro-budget to million dollar budget films. Well, my friends in this week’s episode I’ve got a guy who not only did exactly that but also had fun doing it. Christian Sesma is an indie film writer/director based in Palm Spring, CA. I’ve known Christian for probably over 10 years now and I’ve watched him grow from a small $15,000 horror film (On Bloody Sundayto his latest action blood fest Vigilante Diaries starring Paul Sloan, Michael Madsen, Michael Jai White, Jason Mewes and UFC legend Quinton ‘Rampage’ Jackson.

CHRISTIAN SESMA, Vigilante Diaries, On Bloody Sunday, Shoot the Hero, filmmaking,
Vigilante Diaries will hit select theaters and be available on iTunes on June 24, 2016.

Synopsis:
Jason Mewes of CLERKS and JAY AND SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK stars as an in-your-face filmmaker known for his web videos of an urban avenger known only as ‘The Vigilante’ (Paul Sloan). But when The Vigilante terminates a creep with deep connections, it’ll trigger a live-feed bloodbath between the Armenian mob, Mexican cartels, a rogue team of Special Forces commandos, and an international black ops conspiracy that’s about to make things very personal. UFC legend Quinton ‘Rampage’ Jackson, Michael Jai White (BLACK DYNAMITE), Jaqueline Lord (MERCENARY FOR JUSTICE), WWE star Sal ‘Chavo’ Guerrero, Jr., James Russo (DJANGO UNCHAINED) and Michael Madsen (THE HATEFUL EIGHT) co-star in this explosive throwback packed with badass swagger, hardcore firepower and bone-crunching action.

I wanted to pick his brain and share his unique journey with the IFH Tribe. Enjoy this one, it’s a blast!

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 5:36
So this episode is a fun fun episode, man. I wanted to bring Christian on for a while, and I finally got him locked down to do the interview with us and Christian, it goes back with me, God, probably about 10 years. He was a big fan of our of my film broken and a lot of stuff he was doing at the time. So we kind of were kindred spirits in that way. And Christian's gone on to be a very successful director in his own right. He has directed he started off with like, I think it was a $10,000 budget horror movie. And now he's in the millions of dollar action movies that he's doing internationally, shooting all over the world. It's kind of crazy. And the story of how he did it coming out of Palm Springs, California, which if many of you don't know, Palm Springs is probably about a couple hours outside of if not farther out of LA. So it's pretty much not la by any stretch of the imagination. So he kind of did it on his own in a small town, not a not not a film town. And he's worked with some amazing talent, and he's done some crazy, crazy action and horror movies. And it's pretty inspiring to hear his story. So I wanted to bring him on the show so you guys can get an idea of how he did it. So without further ado, here's my interview with Christian Sesma.

I like to welcome to the show Christian Sesma. How you doing brother?

Christian Sesma 6:59
What's up Ferrari?

Alex Ferrari 7:00
How you doing, man?

Christian Sesma 7:01
Good.

Alex Ferrari 7:02
So Christian and I go back

Christian Sesma 7:04
Way way back.

Alex Ferrari 7:05
Yeah, like at least eight years

Christian Sesma 7:09
Mega fan from the from the red princes. booze days.

Alex Ferrari 7:12
Yeah, back then

Christian Sesma 7:13
From the beginning from like the beginning beginning.

Alex Ferrari 7:15
Yeah, back in the day. So it's at least at least five six years ago. And say like 2007 Yeah, around there. Yeah, so that's Yeah, it's a while. That's definitely like, Oh,

Christian Sesma 7:25
I know why I know how I came across your stuff. Like I was looking to do like, Vf like how to do VFX and came across this guy's dope.

Alex Ferrari 7:34
You did the broken. You saw broken stuff. Yeah,

Christian Sesma 7:36
It's like, Yo, this dude's on point.

Alex Ferrari 7:38
I appreciate

Christian Sesma 7:39
Yeah, no, that's what happened. I was doing a tiny tiny little horror thing. And all we needed was just like a few muzzle flashes like friggin VFX one

Alex Ferrari 7:50
Ohh no you type in the word muzzle flash in Google we pop up somewhere I'm sure total even today I think we still do

Christian Sesma 7:56
Yeah, totally so that's how it happened. I was like man this guy's from the same like you're doing it from the same kind of camp that like you know, film school that I'm from which is just go and do it. Right? The Rodriguez camp

Alex Ferrari 8:09
So yeah so so Christian and I known each other for a few years and I've been watching Christians career flourish on a Facebook some always fake it's it's I always see it and I kind of see his movies as he goes through and I'm always you know, we tweet and you know, like each other. It's great man, congrats, all that kind of stuff. So I wanted to bring him on the show because Christian kind of came you know, he's one of those filmmakers that did not get anything handed to him. He kind of like, Oh, you kind of did it from the bootstrapped himself up and I know a little bit about the show. Yeah, I knew a little bit about the story. So I wanted to kind of get into it a little bit, but first and foremost. So what made you want to become a filmmaker? Because originally you were a restaurant tour?

Christian Sesma 8:54
Like, I mean, literally, my story goes like this. I think I've said so many times. It's so crazy. It's like, I mean, I was always always always a film buff, right? I mean, since frickin Day Zero. I mean, I grew up I'm an 80s kid. So I grew up on everything. That was everything like freakin indie Star Wars freaking

Alex Ferrari 9:13
Yeah, of course everything the best decade the best decade of all time.

Christian Sesma 9:17
I mean, that's kind of like I mean, I was just always in the movie theater, TV, all that stuff. And then anyways, like I went off to college, you know, whatever. And it was supposed to, I got my degree in anthropology from San Diego State. And you know, I went into to teach and you know, anthropology is a lot of writing. So I got into writing and creative writing and all that kind of crap. But I was always I put myself through college and the restaurant business because you know, my family had a restaurant or has a restaurant in Palm Springs and all that stuff. And so after college, like I came back home, which is Palm Springs, and we were supposed to franchise this place out and all this stuff like, you know, like a Chipotle type style, you know, and that summer Like I'd only been home like two months dude in my appendix ruptures oh that's yeah true story appendix ruptures and end up in the hospital bed for a month oh it was really bad I was like it's one of those like no joke It was really really close I mean it was like an actual near death experience got it like no kidding but on the hospital bed I read Robert Rodriguez his 10 minute film school

Alex Ferrari 10:25
Oh yeah the the Rebel Without a crew

Christian Sesma 10:28
Well it was Rebel Without a crew but then there was also like DVDs yeah I think it was online they had like transcripts of like the little things that he would do like the behind the scenes stuff like on like you know spy kid stuff and all those yummy

Alex Ferrari 10:40
Oh yeah there's tons of stuff like that

Christian Sesma 10:41
Yeah all those other things like I somehow I came across all that and I was already a fan of the whole you know Tarantino Rodriguez camp of the bait band apart posse and Dude, I don't know it was just one of those things where I was like super inspired. And I was like, man, I set myself a goal I was like a year from now when I get out of this hospital bed I'm gonna make a short film. And you know because I was right I knew how to write you know cuz I did creative writing and things like that. So man, no kidding. Like a gear to the day I picked up like a shitty little Sony Handycam like the tiny like $500 kind of buy I mean nothing It was like nothing I you

Alex Ferrari 11:27
No, the technology was a little different back then too.

Christian Sesma 11:31
I picked up a tiny camera. It was like a tiny like a literally like in desktop editing software and, and I picked up a copy of pulp fiction, American Beauty and some other screenplays just so I could teach myself the structure of screenplay writing and I made this short film man and it like it got into the film festival here at Palm Springs and they have a kind of Big Film Fest do they do so they had a big Short Film Festival here too? And I got into that for I don't know what how that happened some friggin miracle by some miracle I got it and and it just kind of snowballed after that man I just was like man this is what I was meant to do and want to do and discover my passion for this I was like well I think I have a knack for that you know and ever since it's really just been a friggin trial by fire learning as I go process

Alex Ferrari 12:22
So I can describe it so Robert is a big influence on you.

Christian Sesma 12:27
I would say the single most influenced of it was that and then when I saw Kill Bill I was already a huge Pulp Fiction fan right so for me at the time because I guess that just came out and is I just was picking up a camera dude. I mean teaching myself how to do this and I that one was a huge inspiration to was like wait you can do whatever the F you want to do? Like it was like Kill Bill was one of those movies like hey, you can do whatever you want to do

Alex Ferrari 12:53
You know what the you know the movie was for me and I look back and now it's a fun movie. But the concept was like that you can do whatever you want to do was once upon a time in Mexico. Yeah, that was the one I saw him like doing stuff and I had been a big fan. I mean mariachi came out when I was in high school. So I was working at the video store so I was I followed Roberts career since like, I mean, I saw mariachi in the theater like I mean back I go back with Robert so I studied all this stuff but that was the movie that was kind of just finally I said hey, you could do this and that's when I picked up the the mini DV and shot broke and so we kind of come from the same influences only mini DV little cameras yeah the dv x 100 A which was badass back in the day, man that was that was the camera. So you shot a movie called on Bloody Sunday.

Christian Sesma 13:41
Now Yeah, that was I did a movie a feature before that was my first full length feature which was I did I did two short films. And then I did and then I was like, man, I better step up because every everybody was like man, you better make a show you better make a feature you better make a feature. So again, you know i using all the you know, knowing everybody here in Palm Springs and all that stuff. I made a movie called 630 was like, we made it for like 10,000 bucks. It was like borrowing money from like my dad and my aunt the usual story. Sure, sure.

Alex Ferrari 14:11
Credit cards, right? Yeah,

Christian Sesma 14:12
The whole shabang. Did that and that got bought by a little company called Westlake, but doodoo got put out everywhere like blockbuster fries.

Alex Ferrari 14:20
It was a different time. It was a different time. Yeah,

Christian Sesma 14:22
It was before the DVD bubble burst. Yeah, yeah. And, and so right after that. I did a little movie called Bloody Sunday. And then Warner's home put that out.

Alex Ferrari 14:31
But now with the unbloody. Sunday you have the one big thing that a lot of indie filmmakers don't understand is that you had a star in it. And and from the Robert camp, a big Robert star, which is Danny Trejo. Yeah, so how did you get Danny Trejo on such a small budget? What was the budget on on Bloody Sunday? I believe it was 100,000 bucks. Okay, so you boosted that up? So how and how did you get that 100,000 bucks at the army asking like no,

Christian Sesma 14:55
It was like I had kind of made a little splash here in the in again in your own hometown now and there was just you know local money guys that you know wanting to maybe invest in making a movie this that you know one guy was like well you know you know a kind of financier guy was like well you know i want to maybe look into different stuff and I was like hey man for you know we just did this little 630 movie for nothing you know with like 75 G's 100 G's we can make something cool at a time like horror was selling like crazy and we teamed up with another distributor that somehow I gotten in you know whatever with and it was and they had an output deal with Warner Home and it just was like a really you know again this was like the third time ever picked up a camera type shit you know right right it's like I always said that for me man my film school is like on shelves so it's like it's been and like you said me You said it it's like it's been like that process it's never it's been very unapologetic it's been like making mistakes publicly. It's been I which I think is like it's again it's unapologetic, but it's also like it prepares you for like what's to come because if you can't handle like the internet you can't handle

Alex Ferrari 16:14
Oh brother Listen man when when I came out with with broken man I I got I was it was awesome but at the time because I got so much love and then I got a Roger Ebert quote and the haters came out the hate bye bye they were buying haterade by the by the pallet

Christian Sesma 16:34
And that's before the term haterade even happened

Alex Ferrari 16:37
Oh no that was and that was before trolling like troll trolls warning

Christian Sesma 16:42
People do it for fun

Alex Ferrari 16:44
Yeah but back I mean, so it was brutal, brutal and filmmakers in general and film buffs are even more brutal than general we're weird

Christian Sesma 16:52
Douchebags man

Alex Ferrari 16:54
Look at the port Ghostbusters trailer

Christian Sesma 16:56
Dude you know it's funny like the first one I was like okay the new one I'm like it's better like I don't know you just it What is your stand here like your fucking was sacred ground now so you're never gonna

Alex Ferrari 17:08
You know look I just saw it again and I just saw I just watched a show a screen junkie show that talked like they did a 10 minute talk about this and I had it listening in the background I'm like this is ridiculous like this is like this is ridiculous but with that said I did see both trailers and and now we're gonna go off topic guys for a second I did see the trip that we're just gonna geek out for a second. I did see the trailers and my opinion is look they look what it looks like. It'll be like a fun it's not a Ghostbusters movie. No in my eyes It's just another comedy another Paul fake comment but the way they brought this back it shows like there's no respect for the original and with something so hot This is hallowed ground so because it did not like there's so many ways you could have brought like like how for instance like creed world did it right Jurassic World did it right they kept going back exactly what Jurassic Park was right and they kept referring back to it and that one thing like I just saw the new trailer today and they're like oh When did you know it? is are there ghosts? Is it real? I'm like seriously like you're in New York. We went through this 20 years ago. Yeah, totally right. You know like at least that's the kind of way you kind of reboot something like this and as you have to pay respect to the original original material and that's what Marvel's doing so well. That's what Star Wars did insanely well. I mean whether you like the move you're not at least they paid respect to move on

Christian Sesma 18:36
Seven times in the theater.

Alex Ferrari 18:38
I saw your Facebook did I know.

Christian Sesma 18:41
It's also because like my little what she's like she was total Star Wars geek too. She's like, what are we doing today? Oh my gosh, Star Wars. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 18:47
Okay, let's go. It's a constant loop now at the house. I'm assuming it's pretty it's a lot. But anyway, so let's digress out of we digressed through our Ghostbusters geek doc. But can you can you discuss a little bit of how important a bankable star is when you're looking for distribution? I'm because I'm imagining Danny Trejo helped a lot on Bloody Sunday. Yeah,

Christian Sesma 19:13
I mean, at the time at the time, that's what happened. I mean, there was no they needed one somebody recognizable at the time and that and I said and I think at the time that was 2007 when I did that. It was still a different it was even still a different landscape than it is today. Which is even tougher, you know, like now

Alex Ferrari 19:32
Danny, Danny on $100,000 movie might not do the same because because Danny does a lot of movies now.

Christian Sesma 19:38
He does a lot of movies and you know now again, what's funny is Danny in the new movie you have coming out next month. Like I call them up I'm like dude, do you want to just do some for fun? Like I said, we've done a lot now together which is cool. And you know it you still again nowadays unless you have a ginormous star, you need a whole bunch of Name actors you need

Alex Ferrari 20:01
A sound ensemble and he's like a part of an ensemble he's a good ensemble actor Yes, absolutely not gonna carry a movie all

Christian Sesma 20:07
You know nowadays man without a bankable name, you can't even for at least the genre that I'm doing which is action action comedy stuff like that action stuff. You can't even get a movie made without it. You just can't nobody's gonna finance it, you know?

Alex Ferrari 20:21
Right and it's just because there's just too much competition.

Christian Sesma 20:24
Yeah, it's just it's just the games you know, it sucks because I would love to just go in and pick the best actor for the job, which is just not the case anymore. Now it's like who's the most bankable actor for the job?

Alex Ferrari 20:35
Who's gonna sell who's gonna sell Europe? Who's gonna sell it Japan?

Christian Sesma 20:38
Literally what it is I mean literally, I just did I supposed to do something in June and I written this thing and they approve the treatment I wrote it pay for it and all of a sudden they get to like where this is way too ethnic. I was like, why you can't make this the bad guy Japanese guy I'm like yeah, but the heroes Japanese guy. No, no, no, it's not gonna sell in Japan. No, you gotta you gotta like make the thugs like very just generic you can't give him a specific ethnicity I was like, This is dumb.

Alex Ferrari 21:06
Yeah, but I mean and the kind of I mean, you're making genre movies so you love genre? I'm a big fan of genre I mean a lot of basically my entire career so far up to this date has been very genre based as well. Um, but at a certain point you're an artist. Yes, you want to express yourself as an artist and dealing with all this kind of stuff sometimes I imagine has to be a pain in the ass

Christian Sesma 21:30
It's the most it's one of the most frustrating parts of it you know, but it's like you know me and my you know my guys and because I have worked with a pretty tight knit team and we're just always like well what are we going to do? Are we going to play the game? Or are we going to like not play the game you know and so I've always been one it's just like if I'm going to change the game I gotta I gotta try to do it from the inside out. You know I've never been one to really think that the game changes from the outside in you know, I think you kind of have to infiltrate and then change it from the inside kind of like you know, as a natural process I think you know, and

Alex Ferrari 22:01
Kind of like what what well, like Robert did with Desperado he came in like, do you know that before? Desperado there had not been a female co star Latina in like 40 years in Hollywood movie. Before Salma that's crazy, isn't it?

Christian Sesma 22:21
That's crazy.

Alex Ferrari 22:22
Now you think about a like oh, there's Latinas every I mean look at Fast and Furious I mean come on it's it's it's a whole different world now but that's just the way it was and he did it that way he like completely got in the back door and yeah, and did his thing and same thing with Quentin Quentin Did you know whatever he wanted to do? You make money they let you do a lot of stuff.

Christian Sesma 22:41
No Exactly. You got it you show him You can do it you know and again then all of a sudden you're your genius and you did something new right exactly. We're really you're just like I don't know I just did what I wanted to do.

Alex Ferrari 22:51
Exactly exactly. And that's what some of the things I preach all the time is like just just nobody wants another Robert Rodriguez nobody wants another Quinn Tarantino because they're already there. They want another Christian they want another Alex they want another john doe for sure you know what I mean as opposed to trying to you know rip off somebody else's then you can be inspired because we're all inspired by everything Sure.

Christian Sesma 23:13
I mean all those guys are inspired by it Yeah, I mean

Alex Ferrari 23:15
Jesus that mean quitting Hello?

Christian Sesma 23:18
He's the most verbal of the wall

Alex Ferrari 23:19
Exactly. So after after on Sunday on Bloody Sunday, you did a movie called shoot the hero which is kind of where I met you first kind of real movie yeah right with Jason and Danny How was the production of that and then and how to sell and when you sold it How did that go?

Christian Sesma 23:34
Yeah, that was like the first time like ever had any kind of real cash and that the budget on that was like I mean real cash like for an indie you know, like you had hundreds of 1000s right so we had like 400 G's for that and at the time that was you know, it's a lot for me. And you know, that was just one of those things where it just got put together because a casting director I knew that was dealing with kind of brought up Jason and I was obviously a ginormous j fan sure of course and I like wet would be awesome if we made Jay this kind of weird geeky dark guy not you know not like you know nuge nuge who I'm a huge news fan you know but you know just make them kind of play anti what he's usually done and then pit them against you know, the bad guy was Danny tre it was it again it was a very kind of weird action comedy and I was really inspired by movies like the big hit and things like that where it's really like tongue in cheek and fun type of thing and you know, like you know, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and more and more like gross point blank was really like shoot here was my like, gross point blank and the big hit baby you know, kind of this that kind of fun fun thing. But yeah,

Alex Ferrari 24:47
And then selling it and then selling it do you how involved are you in the selling process of this? Are you just basically a gun for hire?

Christian Sesma 24:53
Oh, no, no, these are like, these are things I put together and I'm a producer on Okay, okay. So like yeah, so With these for for most of the projects I'm always write write direct and produce and none of the producing side i mean you know the physical line producers will do their stuff but you know when it comes to kind of getting talent involved in sales and all that stuff or raising financing I'm pretty heavily involved in that now and especially that but shoot to hear it was definitely one of those things and you know, we sold it to shoreline at the time and then they put it out I mean it was it was cool minute you know, it was like the first kind of nice little VOD release and it was on Showtime for like two years

Alex Ferrari 25:31
Now real quick how did you get it to your district like I'm trying to break it down so people can understand the process

Christian Sesma 25:36
Basically we shopped it around with a you know with a sales rep

Alex Ferrari 25:41
Okay pretty sure ive got it

Christian Sesma 25:44
Yeah, and you know, they landed like they landed the distributors for it and they kind of you know, they take it from there and you know without getting into the crazy dynamics of what that is how those splits go and all that stuff and the percentages and things like that I mean, you just hope that you know you can come out break even and you know if you're breaking even on a movie you want the truth I mean on an indie movie I mean we're not talking like you know 10 poles but then the movie if you break even or make a little bit of money You did well

Alex Ferrari 26:16
You're very like you're 98% ahead of everybody else

Christian Sesma 26:19
Right! Yeah, exactly. So you know shoot the hero was kind of was kind of that and you know I'm talking man it's just they did they did okay with it. I think you know, cable cable was pretty cool with it. And then again it and it happened in 2009 different different landscape again, different landscape. Again, Netflix was barely coming out. like Netflix was still transitioning from like, the actual Netflix like delivery DVD to the house. You know, to now like streaming, you know, streaming hadn't hadn't hit yet. You know, and VOD was being like the only VOD was just like Time Warner Cable and rec TV, things like just those, you know, that was pretty kind of new ish. So, you know, again, where they get this landscape just keeps changing.

Alex Ferrari 27:08
Now what you've worked with a bunch of different personalities and actors and all of your movies, some of them I'm imagining, you know, the big macho dudes and stuff like that. How do you handle you know, dealing with egos, personalities, you know, onset, like any tips that you can give you, you know, filmmakers who are going to deal with, you know, seasoned actors, or specifically egos and stuff like that. I'm not saying that any of you guys are egomaniac? I'm just saying,

Christian Sesma 27:35
I believe me. I've worked with Amy like, you know, just like on this last thing. For instance, we had Michael Jai white, Mike Madsen, and Danny Trejo all in the scene and if you went by just kind of the rumors of like oh my god, you know, this is gonna be like a bunch egomaniacs on set that's not I think it really i mean if my advice to like any filmmakers is like look, the tone of the movie comes from you you're the captain you know you're the general You're the one who they're going to look up to and say and these guys these these seasoned veterans who have been on 100 million dollar sets are gonna step on your indie and go Alright, am I here wasting my time? Or does this person actually have a vision Do they know what they want? You know am I wasting my time I am I respected you know that kind of thing so I've never had a problem with that ever, ever ever. I think just because you know I respect I was already I was always a mega fan of these guys already, you know, but I don't fanboy out I just was like dude, this is awesome. They know they know I'm a fan and it's like hey, we're gonna do something for me you know we're gonna do my thing here you know? So I think setting the tone as the as the captain of the ship is crucial

Alex Ferrari 28:49
Right and then it basically if if you don't do something like that or show disrespect or don't act like you don't know what you're doing then that other side of these actors might absolutely run right over they'll destroy you

Christian Sesma 29:02
Right they will destroy you public like right there for everyone. So again, I've not had that I've not had that sure. Oh, but you know I've heard stories you know and I guess it's just not my style you know, it's like we always really have a really really good time

Alex Ferrari 29:17
Right! Yeah cuz I've had I mean I've worked with a lot of you know actors as well and and it's true like I've never had an issue either

Christian Sesma 29:25
Because you're just a regular regular cat like we're just regular dudes that like movies you know, you know you have these other guys that are doing it maybe for not the same reason. Right? That you know, guys that actually love movies do and I think that these seasoned veterans ultimately come when it comes down to it they are actual actors you know, they do it for the love they still maybe they might have forgotten sometimes like may have been have maybe it's been a while since they've been on a set where people who actually love making movies, you know, just the business of it, but when they do, it's really refreshing for them. I found you know,

Alex Ferrari 30:01
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Christian Sesma 30:11
Now the security of it, you know,

Alex Ferrari 30:14
Now this last, the latest move you're doing is vigilante diaries, right? Yeah, vigilante diaries. Yep. Now that's the biggest movie you've ever done.

Christian Sesma 30:21
I don't know between that and night crew.

Alex Ferrari 30:23
Okay. Budget wise.

Christian Sesma 30:25
Yeah, I'd say those are two they're pretty big. I mean, I wouldn't say pretty big. I just

Alex Ferrari 30:29
For you. I mean, if you're still indie, you're still

Christian Sesma 30:32
Totally indie. Yeah, totally. 100%.

Alex Ferrari 30:35
Now vigilante diaries started off as a show, right?

Christian Sesma 30:38
Dude, man, what a crazy journey and it's funny. I just got an email today of the release and all that stuff. So that comes out June 24. In in limited theaters, and VOD and then like blu ray,

Alex Ferrari 30:51
But yeah, but then I see on Facebook like the whole Russian Premier that thing like yeah, so like year ago, right?

Christian Sesma 30:58
Here's what happened long so I'm gonna try to sum it up for the indie film hustle. Yes. between jobs just like I am right like between gigs we were like fuck, man, we gotta work like we got to do something right? Like we gotta we gotta do something. So me and a buddy of mine who is the CO writer and creator Paul Sloane, who is the actual vigilante we go man, let's, let's um, let's do like a web series. Again, a different landscape from time to time on web servers. We're really doing a lot you know, like um, so let's do a web series and we'll well basically that the inspiration was to do a Punisher type web series because we're such punishable you know

Alex Ferrari 31:41
And you'd like to I'm assuming on the side note you do like a new graphic now with it that's that's the he's the best Punisher ever go ahead of all time. Let's move on

Christian Sesma 31:49
Saying the Punisher so we make this crazy like web series and it was ended the time it was financed by my buddies over at they had it was called chill, calm. Chill, calm was like this. They were doing like it was like a startup. And they were doing kind of like the crowdfunding style, right? But they stay actually it wasn't they, they put up the cash for it. So they gave us cash to make two episodes. And we did a whole big old thing like Comic Con, and it was Jason muse. And he was my buddy Paul. And we did this we did 212 minute episodes of this stuff, right? And machinima, put it out as kind of like this little premiere and kind of got it out there saying, hey, and that the style was like, if people liked it, they they buy into it like a crowdfunding style. And we've used that money to make more, right. But you know, they gave us the initial startup cash. But that company, that kind of idea, fizzled out, and whatever happened, and we deal with that debt footage was just floating out in the ether forever. And then a year later, we had just finished in Premiere night crew, which is, do I die for that thing to come out? and producer buddy of mine, and his financier guy was like, Hey, dude, don't you still have 20 minutes of the original vigilante diaries web series floating around? We're like, yeah, like, do you want to turn that into a feature? If you already have 20 minutes, then we only had to find an hour, right?

Alex Ferrari 33:26
You're kidding me.

Christian Sesma 33:28
And we were like, Alright, we're born again. In between projects. And between the two projects, we made the web series. Then we went off to make I made a movie called Night crew, and then a movie called a wall. And then again, in between movies. These guys were like, you want to go make this really quick? We're like, Yeah, I know. We've always been on the thing. Like Don't say no to anything unless it's like jump john. us. Yeah. Like if it's us, like when there was like no money and they're like, we'll give you a couple 100 grand, we're like, Alright, let's go do it. And we did and we made the feature which was the original vigilante diaries. And people loved it and it was funny like people dug it a lot and they were like, we're going to finance a sequel right off the bat because at one time a distributor wanted both. Okay, and so we wrote a sequel we did this and we went off to shoot this in Armenia. Okay, so we went off and shot Armenia, we shot London, we shot Scotland and make this thing really big, like a Mission Impossible style flick. Right? All right, get back to the States, and the rest of the funding drops out. And we're like, oh, shit, what are we gonna do with all this like, amazing footage, right? And it was just dead. It was dead and we're like, holy crap. And then I was like, why don't we just make this into one giant indie film? You know, like, I have not, I have not seen anything like that before, right? So another financier came in and gave us another you know chunk of cash to finish this off and shoot a new beginning shoot a new ending incorporate all this footage that we had shot overseas and stuff and so man we did that and it now has become the definitive vigilante diaries which is this crazy Kill Bill meets Mission Impossible mashup genre flick that's it's crazy it's the crate like I've for me It's nuts dude

Alex Ferrari 35:33
So true so two questions one How was it shooting in Armenia amazing Tell me like tell me how it goes what the process is because I've never shot there

Christian Sesma 35:44
Right so the the Riyadh nobody had we were like the first like big quote unquote big like a real American production never stepped foot there and shoot anything and it was because of the main bad guy in the movie Armando Shani on like he's a really really famous Armenian actor that he American Armenian actor. And his parents are very famous actors there and you know, our financier was Armenian. And they were like, it was just like, yo, let's go back to freakin Palm Springs and shoot they were like, let's go back to the old country. We can take over the capital city and like have the run to the city. And Dude, that's what it was. I mean, we took over the city for two weeks and like, car chases tunnels gunfights I mean, explain we just it was big man really, really big. And we and on a dime, you know, really on a on a real dime. And you know, we did it and you know, we came back with this really cool international feeling indie film, which you know, you as we all know, that don't get that doesn't happen doesn't happen. It does not happen, you know, and so, you know, and so now, Anchor Bay is putting it out and HBO is putting that out in the fall and things like that. So you know, I'm really excited for people see, it's really it's pretty nutty. It's a nutty, nutty film.

Alex Ferrari 37:05
And how was the Russian premiere? That thing looked right?

Christian Sesma 37:09
Yeah, it was it was in Armenia. So again, because we come from that indie School of like, no money. What we did is we wrote this opera scene where the main bad it's very, it was very like Roan. inish, ever the ice skating scene and running. So we basically did that kind of idea where the main bad guy arrives because he's kind of like the main bad guys is huge mobster in Armenia. And he's loved by the, by the public, kind of like a robin hood style. And he arrives and so what we did is we actually premiered the original movie and used it as a backdrop for this for the movie. So that actual stuff that the the arrival and all that stuff, we shot it for the movie of the arrival of the bad guy coming in, right? So we use it, we doubled it. We had massive crowds, and it was and we use the and we kind of just shot different locations. crazy,

Alex Ferrari 38:05
Man. Yeah, it's very indie hustle.

Christian Sesma 38:08
Totally, totally. We're like, we need a whole bunch of crowd and we got to make it look like he's entering this huge Opera House. Cool. We'll double it for the the premiere. What else you're going to get everybody in suits and tuxes? You know,

Alex Ferrari 38:21
Right. Exactly. Exactly. So cool cars. So can you give any Can you give us any tips on how you negotiate with talent agents to secure your actors?

Christian Sesma 38:33
Who has a tough one?

Alex Ferrari 38:35
Without getting yourself in trouble?

Christian Sesma 38:36
No. Luckily, like I think it's really negotiating with talent is I've always found the best way is to be just brutally honest, you know, because they've heard it all. You're not going to bullshit agents. They've heard it all. They you know, they feed off of everybody's fear. You know, Yes, they do. Like it's their sharks, man. They are sharks, they smell blood in the water, they're gonna go for it. So you better be as transparent as possible. Like right off the bat. You know, I found that to be so I've just been like, hey, so and so. You know, I need a favor. You know, believe me when when I call Danny's agent. She goes,

Alex Ferrari 39:10
Ah, it's frickin Christian again,

Christian Sesma 39:14
All the time. But you know, we always work it out. But every single time she goes because Danny's agent is Jason's agent to Oh, is it? I didn't know that. Okay, same person, same. She and she's great. She's adult.

Alex Ferrari 39:25
Yeah. And I've heard she's wonderful. I've heard many people have worked with Danny and so yes,

Christian Sesma 39:29
And the reality is she's she believed in me since I'm Bloody Sunday to be honest with you. She gave me a shot there and let me use Danny, you know, and we've developed this relationship over the years, you know, and, you know, and then I have something in the fall that we'll we'll share with Danny again, you know, hopefully it's not one that's going to go fine. How

Alex Ferrari 39:46
Old is the Danny Danny has to be 155 Is he really think he's like something like that. But I mean, he's, he's timeless. He looks amazing.

Christian Sesma 39:56
Throw it on. Like he's Clint Eastwood style

Alex Ferrari 39:58
I like but I'm like when he was Desperado he looked old so I was like, but like old in a good way you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely it's so so what if you could say one thing that you've learned during your career that they don't teach in film school? What would that be?

Christian Sesma 40:17
There I think the biggest thing that is really man that they teach in film school that is not true is that there's not any rules of this game you know, I think they they teach you that there's this there's this way in this way to skin the cat you know, and you get out to the real world and there is no friggin one way to skin this cat and you know once you kind of pierce the veil of Hollywood nobody kind of knows anything really you know you're everybody is it's it's really the Wild West I found first everybody is trying to do the same thing at every level they're trying to raise financing they're trying to get actors to say yes, they try to make a good movie. And it kind of is as simple as that and you know I think the power struggle comes from everybody believing that it's one way to do it and it's really not it's kind of like you get it done the way you get it done. You know, I found that to be true on my end, you know,

Alex Ferrari 41:09
I would agree I would agree with you and I'm

Christian Sesma 41:11
Saying it's like they'll they'll make you believe that you got to get it done this way. Just so you can play their game but when you play your own game and be like hey dude, I'm gonna get it done the way I get it done. You always end up at the same spot anyways,

Alex Ferrari 41:24
Well that's the thing like we that whole story you just told me about vigilante diaries like if you would have done it the way they've done it they would do have you do it yeah would have cost you $20 million. Totally if not more.

Christian Sesma 41:35
There's no if I would have shopped around that script there it's important nobody would have ever made it right just would seem they're like this is too gigantic. We can't make it for under X amount of dollars. And we just were like I don't know we're just gonna say yes to everything and just go you know, again, just being fearless and like you say like, isn't that the indie hustle vibe it's like you're gonna figure it out? You know?

Alex Ferrari 41:57
Just kind of get out there and also just keep creating Yes, keep creating don't sit around for five years after you make one movie and hope somebody has to sit

Christian Sesma 42:08
Around for a day cuz that's all I've been doing.

Alex Ferrari 42:11
Like you've earned a day sir. Watch your movies do maybe a day but no, like sit around after you make a movie for five years waiting for the phone to ring. Exactly. That's

Christian Sesma 42:19
You can't do that now in this town. Not anywhere in town and like not in this landscape anymore.

Alex Ferrari 42:25
You know? To me there's too much

Christian Sesma 42:28
Competition. It's just dude. Yeah, no, absolutely.

Alex Ferrari 42:32
So what advice would you give a filmmaker just starting out today in today's landscape?

Christian Sesma 42:37
Man Oh, just literally the cheesy friggin Nike advice you know pick up a camera and just start making a movie

Alex Ferrari 42:45
Now you can really

Christian Sesma 42:47
Yeah it's it's if it was easy when I did it it's even easier now you know and it's like it's man editing saw everything is easier.

Alex Ferrari 42:57
I mean you could you could pick up your iPhone like tangerine and shoot right and shoot a feature now in Sundance now again Mind you, you have a good story stories always helpful.

Christian Sesma 43:08
I mean, you know it all starts there but I mean if you're talking about equipment which is always a pain in the ass you know gear and stuff like that

Alex Ferrari 43:15
Here's cheaper than ever

Christian Sesma 43:16
Man. Totally

Alex Ferrari 43:18
High quality 4k like slrs man

Christian Sesma 43:21
Guess you can totally do it's never it's never been easier to shoot a real good looking movie professional quality you know then now

Alex Ferrari 43:31
No, absolutely and it's only going to get easier and easier and easier as I get

Christian Sesma 43:35
And then and that's just to make a movie now mind you, like we're talking about selling and making money and all that stuff that's kind of that's it that's in a whole different bracket but you start off with the basic which is just getting your feet wet and and making a movie

Alex Ferrari 43:48
Just keep making content making films do whatever you can eventually someone's gonna take notice. Yes, absolutely. Because in all honesty, though, there's there might be a lot of people making movies but there's not a lot of people making two and three and four and five movies like there's a lot of one timers and a lot of I almost got out of the gate and oh, I just got one movie distributed to you but the dude that does two or three or four or five and let alone makes a little money within or breaks even with them. That's a rare it is it's very very rare. So I got last three questions. I asked all my all my guests. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn in the business or out?

Christian Sesma 44:34
Oh, good. I think the lesson is I think I think me personally, what I always struggle with is the fear that nothing's going to happen again. Right? Yeah, it's like you do one and then you're you forget, you get fear. That's not going to happen again. You know, it's like I've been here a lot of times now and i think i think there's a you know, with are getting a little hokey or whatever there is something to be said about having some faith in the process and faith in yourself and you know maybe faith and you know

Alex Ferrari 45:08
The power the powers that be

Christian Sesma 45:11
Before the movie Gods you know like and i think i mean dude I struggle with that constantly it's like after every movie you're like man what's next you know, but I think the work will always kind of carry through so I think the lesson that it's been it's been the hardest is to is to have some has a faith that the next one will come if I work for it, you know?

Alex Ferrari 45:32
Very good very good lesson. Now what are your three favorite films of all time? no particular order

Christian Sesma 45:38
Aliens. Good James Cameron aliens so hard won the new

Alex Ferrari 45:46
Ghostbusters obviously the new the new Catwoman Catwoman the new Ghostbusters, Batman vs. Superman.

Christian Sesma 45:58
I actually love that movie.

Alex Ferrari 45:59
Did you like it? I haven't seen it yet. I've seen it a lot.

Christian Sesma 46:02
I am see I'm like watching a lot too. And I love watching. See, watch? For me. I thought it's the same thing. Anyways, uh, Empire Strikes Back. Okay. Um, and Geez, depending on the day, I mean, something new, like, you know, Gladiator or some of the classics, you know, I mean, I love so many movies at the top three. I mean, aliens Empire.

Alex Ferrari 46:30
I felt like I fluctuate between, you know, Blade Runner, fight clubs, Shawshank. You could just keep going, the list keeps going and go

Christian Sesma 46:39
And I'm like, what would be a third? I'm glad that I'm thinking like gladiators

Alex Ferrari 46:42
Up there to love. It's like Braveheart. You know, by far, you know, we're

Christian Sesma 46:47
Just kind of like, game changes, you know, like, God day.

Alex Ferrari 46:50
Yeah. I remember when I saw blade runner for the first time. I was like,

Christian Sesma 46:55
Yeah, dude. It's just like, damn. Yeah, I mean, you talk about it never been done before. Like, everybody's Copy that.

Alex Ferrari 47:02
Oh, God. I mean, I use Siri. I mean, everybody in their mothers copy that movie. And continue to copy it. Only though. I was working with a director years ago, like probably like four or five years ago. He music huge music video director, like a huge, like a big, big big music video director like MTV award winner. I mean, the big thing, right? And I'm sitting there coloring something for him. And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna make this look a little like Blade Runner esque. And he goes, What's that? Whoa. And I'm like, What? I literally stopped. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? You're a music video director and you haven't seen Blade Runner? Like serious? Everybody who's listening to this? Please stop stop the podcasts. Go and watch Blade Runner right now. Right now just stop what you're doing watch Blade Runner. You just trust me

Christian Sesma 47:52
I just saw it again just maybe like a month ago

Alex Ferrari 47:55
It's just so amazing. It's like so every every every angle is a painting. It is every good angle and how he and how he was able to to get it done in the system is fascinating. Yeah, it's anyway I digress. But anyway, so where can people find you man?

Christian Sesma 48:16
Every on social media I mean Facebook, Instagram Twitter I'm at at sesqui on Instagram at sesker is my Twitter and my Instagram for sure.

Alex Ferrari 48:26
Okay, and you have a website too Don't you? Yeah, but that's true

Christian Sesma 48:29
Man I've been I mean as douchebag as it sounds it's so not updated like I haven't had a chance to update with new reels and all that crap so it's like super old it's like three years old

Alex Ferrari 48:40
Yeah, I was going I went there today I was gonna mention something man but

Christian Sesma 48:45
Like when am I gonna do it and then you have some downtime you're like should I start doing it and I update this now i don't know that i have to cut a reel you know when it cuts into my like blade runners Netflix time you know, I know it's a toss up, you know life

Alex Ferrari 49:02
Priorities change.

Christian Sesma 49:05
Now I just send trailers over here. Check out the trailer.

Alex Ferrari 49:08
Oh, yeah, you don't need to cut a real man. I don't I don't cut reels anymore. I just like here. Just go to my website. Here's my there's plenty. Yeah, plenty of stuff that you could say so man, thank you so much for taking out the time man. I appreciate it.

Christian Sesma 49:20
We'll be rocking the indie film hustle with you brother.

Alex Ferrari 49:22
Thanks, man. Man I love having Cristian on the show man. He's He's a trip and it's really inspiring to see how he's been able to do what he's done. So definitely gives us all all US indie film hustlers out there. Great inspiration to move forward and it can be done boys and girls it can be done. So if you want to check out any of any of the things we talked about on the show and want to check out where a Christian is, all his links will be in the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com/079 Oh, and also don't forget to head over to freefilmbook.com that's freefilmbook.com. Download your free indie film book. There's over 16,000 books you can download from Audible, and you can get your copy for free. So free film book calm. And of course, as always, if you're interested in taking your film education, up a notch, head over to indie film hustle.com forward slash film school, and you can check out all the courses for every topic you can imagine from screenwriting production, social media marketing, film distribution, and we have Oscar nominated instructors, as well as like the screenwriter from Fight Club telling you how to do his thing Paul Castro doing his course on the million dollar screenplay. We've got so many amazing courses there for you guys so definitely check it out indiefilmhustle.com/filmschool as always guys, thank you so so much for listening. Thank you for all the amazing a well wishes on this is Meg you guys have been sending me messages and emails like crazy and I really appreciate all the great vibes good good energy you're sending our way and I hope that my journey can help you guys on your journey as being filmmakers because I'm going through it just like you are I'm trying I'm hustling just like you guys are. So hopefully my journey will help you guys get to where you want to be. So thanks again for all the love guys I really appreciate and I know we've got an indie film hustle tribe here the tribe is here to support each other to make their dreams and their films come true. So as always, keep the hustle going. Keep that dream alive. And I'll talk to you soon.

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IFH 078: Follow Your Passion, No Matter What!

This is a special episode of the podcast guys. I recently had a good friend of mine pass, Allan Wertheim. He was a legendary First Assistant Director and Unit Production Manager. Allan and I worked together almost 20 years ago on one of my first directing gigs. 

This is by far the most difficult project I have ever worked on and Allan was kind enough to mentor me and protect me from the situation. He passed a few days ago at the age of 72 and my friend left it all on the field. He worked with legendary directors like Martin Scorsese and David Fincher but more importantly lived a happy life with his family.

I wanted this episode to spotlight the fact that you can’t leave with the music still inside of you. Take a listen to this special episode. I hope it inspires you a bit.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:00
Now today is it's going to be somewhat of a somber podcast as well as a uplifting one. I recently had a good friend of mine pass his name was Alan Wertheim. You might have never heard of Alan, he he was in the business for probably around 40 years or so. And Alan I met about 17 years ago working on an extremely difficult project that was working on as a director was very young. And Alan took me under his wing, and really taught me a lot about the process. Now, Alan was a first assistant director and a unit production manager on many huge, huge movies. But he was kind enough to really just guide me and mentor me through a very difficult time in my life as a filmmaker, and we became good friends and stayed close for many years afterwards. I last time I saw him was a little while ago, but I spoke to him probably a few months ago. And I wanted to have him on the show, but it just never worked out. And it was something that I wish I would have pushed harder because I think he would have been a wealth of information for the tribe. But some of the projects he worked on so you understand the caliber of a professional he was he was the first assistant director to Martin Scorsese in Raging Bull. He worked as a unit production manager on seven with David Fincher. He worked on Saturday Night Fever where he told me the story that they gave him the the soundtrack for Saturday Night Fever back in the day. And when he played it, he's like, Oh, this is crap. This is never gonna go anywhere. And it turned out to be one of the best selling soundtracks of all time. Elon had just stories upon stories upon stories. They used his car, his classic car, in the I mean, the classic blockbuster of 1970 love story, which, which is if you guys haven't heard about that movie, definitely check it out. It was the blockbuster of its time. It was a phenomenon and he worked on that as well. He worked on 80s classics like about last night and 90s classics like Reality Bites with Ben Stiller and his first directorial debut. And he has told me so many stories about all of these people that he worked with over the years for Marty to David, and it was an absolute honor to know him. And I'm gonna leave links to all of all of his information. So you guys can see his IMDb and things so you can kind of see what what he did. Now the reason I bring him up is not only to you know, pay homage to a great artist and a great man for what he did, but I wanted to kind of touch upon the theme of doing what you love. And you know what Alan did. He he worked for 40 odd years. He's a member of the DGA. He did what he loved he raised a wonderful family had a wonderful wife had a great family that he put together and he loved what he did. He absolutely loved what he did. And he did it every day. And he raised a wonderful family who loved him and adored him. And has really, as much as anyone can ask for really, you know, to do what you love every day, have a roof over your head, to be content with life and to be happy. And his, his passing was very sudden, and quick. And it shocked everybody that knew him. And he, I just really wanted to, to bring to everyone's attention about not only what a great person he was, but to show you an example of someone who, you know, played it to the fullest, you know, he retired early, he traveled the world. He, you know, wanted to spend time with his family. And he did, he worked his ass off in the film business and worked with some amazing in legendary people along his journey as a filmmaker, and as a assistant director and as a UPM. And I just wanted everyone to kind of think about that for a bit. And just, you know, don't leave with the music in you. It is something that Allen definitely did not he had played his music, I still think he had a lot more music to play. But he he played, he played it all the way to the end. And that's the advice I give all of you is to Don't let things stop you don't let fears slow you down. You've got to just keep doing it, do it at whatever level you can. But just do it and, and just don't let anything stop you. Because the worst thing you can do is wake up tomorrow morning, and you're going to be 70. And all you're going to be full of is regrets. I wish I did this, or I wish I did that. When you should be waking up tomorrow. And it's the first day. And I know this is a cliche, but it's the first day of the rest of your life. And you have no regrets. You can look yourself in the mirror and say, I did everything I could I left it all out on the on the mat on the field. I gave it my all. And that's all you can do. And don't try to compete with anybody else. The only person you are at the end of the day you're competing with is yourself. Okay, so please go out and do whatever it is you want to do. If you want to write, write, if you want to direct direct, if you want to open up a bakery, open up a bakery. But I'm assuming that you guys are into filmmaking, since you're listening to this podcast. So whatever it is, just go do it guys. Don't let fear or anything else stop you from whatever your dream might be. My friend Alan did not do that. And I hope his story inspires you to go out and just do what you want to do. And don't regret anything. And if you fail, you fail. It's part of the process guys, and you only grow when you fail. You don't grow when you succeed. You grow when you fail. And that's all we can hope to do in life. Hope this episode brought some value to your life. And I hope it inspires you to go out and just do it. So this episode we're going to end with keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive and I will talk to you real soon.

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IFH 077: Acting & the Art of Being Yourself with Adrian Martinez

Being yourself in any situation in life is hard for many people. Actors do make a living playing other people but the art of being comfortable in your own skin is a lesson we can all learn. I invited on the show Adrian Martinez, an actor, writer, producer, and soon-to-be-director, with nearly 100 film and TV credits.

Adrian’s career began as a high school track star on NBC’s “Unsolved Mysteries“. Some in casting have called Adrian, “the sidekick to the stars,” as evidenced by his recent sidekick trifecta– Will Smith’s sidekick in Warner Bros’ “Focus,” Ben Stiller’s sidekick in his Fox remake of “The Secret Life of Walter Mitty,” Will Ferrell’s sidekick in Lionsgate’s “Casa de mi Padre,” to name a few.

Mr. Martinez’s TV work includes over forty guest spots, including a recurring guest star in CBS’ “A Gifted Man,” opposite Patrick Wilson, FX’s “Louie” opposite Louis CK, HBO’s “Flight of the Conchords,” “Sex and the City,” and is recurring on Comedy Central’s “Inside Amy Schumer.

Adrian is currently making his directorial debut with the film “iCreep,” through his production company, Paloma Pictures.

I wanted to have Adrian Martinez on the show to see if he would share some of his secret sauce for maintaining such a long and successful career…and he did. Whether your an actor, director, writer, or artist the knowledge bombs Adrian drops are massive.

BTW, this happens to be one of the funniest episodes I’ve ever done. Adrian is not only generous with his knowledge but he’s FUNNY AS HELL! Enjoy.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 1:01
Now today's guest is Adrian Martinez. Adrian has been in so many movies and television shows that have lost count I mean, he's played against Sandra Bullock and Tom Hanks and Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. He was in the Secret Life of Walter Mitty with Ben Stiller. He was in the amazing Spider Man number two, he was an inside Amy Schumer. And more recently, he co starred with Will Smith and Margot Robbie in the movie focus. So his resume in his IMDB page is sick. I had a chance to work with him at a workshop many years ago, and he and I became friends. We, we went to the bat, we went to battle together on some projects during that workshop. And as as many relationships are, they are forged in the heat of battle. And that is what happened with me and Adrian. So I reached out to Adrian because I wanted him on the show to talk about what it takes not only to be a working actor in Hollywood, but what he's been able to do, being himself not trying to be anybody else but who he is. And that has been his success. It's been his secret sauce, on getting work and continually getting work for better part of two decades. working steadily. And being a working actor in Hollywood today is something that is to be revered because it is very difficult to do so. So I wanted to bring them on and kind of talk about what it's like to just do you and be you and and how much success he's been able to obtain because of that so it is a very eye opening a very just wonderful interview and I had a ball talking to him. He's super funny. And Adrian gives one of the best answers to my Famous final questions I've had anyone give me before so definitely stay around for that last question. I think you guys will enjoy it. So without further ado, here's my interview with Adrian Martinez. Adrian man, thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate you taking the time during the holidays.

Adrian Martinez 5:19
Oh, absolutely. Matt Lauer.It's been great.

Alex Ferrari 5:25
It's Alex Ferrari, sir.

Adrian Martinez 5:27
Okay.

Alex Ferrari 5:33
We met God about what seven years ago

Adrian Martinez 5:36
Its always five years ago,

Alex Ferrari 5:37
It's always just no matter what it is. It's five years ago.

Adrian Martinez 5:39
No matter what it is, is after that point, what's the point? Its about five years ago.

Alex Ferrari 5:46
Alright. So about five years ago, we met at a leaf the this a wonderful kind of like summer camp for filmmakers. And you were there directing a piece called Manny, if I remember correctly?

Adrian Martinez 5:57
Yes, yes. Which you can catch on YouTube?

Alex Ferrari 6:00
Yes, yes, it was actually really I remember I remember I did all that I was helping you with the post production on that. It was a lot of fun watching that. And we had a ball, we had a lot of unique experiences during that summer camp.

Adrian Martinez 6:12
Yeah, we did.

Alex Ferrari 6:14
So let me ask you a question. What made you want to become an actor in the first place?

Adrian Martinez 6:19
Well, it's kind of like, the priesthood, you know, I don't think you actually choose the craft, it chooses you. And for me, it's, it's a very hard way of making a living. And so you need to have more than just a desire to do it, it really has to be a calling, I think, you know, it's like, social work, you know, like, people who do social work, and all they do is deal with problems, you know, problems with the system problems with themselves problems with the clients to do that for 20 years or so. You know, it's a calling, or like anything else. So I, I grew up just loving movies and obsessed with movies. And I would go to movies, and just sort of like, try to see the performances and then I would ask questions, like, Well, why? why did why is out the chivo making this choice? Or why didn't Gary Oldman did that and finally, I just shut up and said, you know, what, just do it yourself and, and, and I got into it, but I really felt an absolute need to do the work, not just a desire, and I think that's what sustains you is that need to do it.

Alex Ferrari 7:34
Right? As opposed to just trying to do trying to be famous or try to be rich for

Adrian Martinez 7:39
Being magazines and you know, all this. You know, if that doesn't sustain you what sustains you is this absolute need to do the work?

Alex Ferrari 7:49
Now, I heard a rumor that you in high school actually started auditioning for unsolved mysteries.

Adrian Martinez 7:56
Yeah, that was my first job. I was actually a sprinter back then. Okay. Yeah. Now I just run towards restaurants. But back then I was actually really, really fast. I was a medalist in the Catholic league. And in all this, I read, I think my best time was 100 yards and 10.6 seconds. Wow. Which was Yeah, I was motoring along. I mean, I was really fast. So I, they had this audition, they had put up signs at my high school for the summer audition. And, and someone told me not they're looking for sprinters. And like that I don't want to really, now you got to do is Ryan, they'll pay you like 600 bucks, which was scale, right? At the day at that time. And I'm like, Okay, and so I went and the audition was just basically like a sprint. And so I just left everyone in the dust. And I got the job as a high school. sprinter alleged rapise slash sprinter.

Alex Ferrari 9:03
That's a great start. It's a great start to the career.

Adrian Martinez 9:08
Yeah. And then pretty much after that, I was just doing all kinds of day playing work. And I was just doing, you know, America's most one I did when I was one of the fugitives. And one of the guys that I portrayed actually got caught. Oh, how cool. So this, you know, one less guy to worry about on the street. And it just became this thing, you know, and you just keep booking work and guest stars and eventually get movies and so forth.

Alex Ferrari 9:41
Now you you start your your New York guy, right? You live in New York now.

Adrian Martinez 9:45
Yeah, I'm based in New York, but I gotta lay around. I'd say 15 times a year. So it's at least once a month. Yeah, I mean for work or for testing or for Or, you know, any number of things.

Alex Ferrari 10:03
Got it. And there's a big difference between working in New York I'm assuming and working in LA as an actor,

Adrian Martinez 10:10
Or I don't know about that. I mean the work is the work of the business is different grade but still have to prove yourself on either coast, you know, right. You know, you'd never make it is what I'm saying is like it's always like, like people thought, Oh, well, you know, he was in Walter Mitty and now he's Ben Stiller sidekick. I'll get to his he said, Now he's not. He still had to go and audition for this other movie. I did call focus, right? with Bill Smith. Right? And so people say, Oh, well, not not Now. Now.

Alex Ferrari 10:48
He's arrived. He's done. He's done right?

Adrian Martinez 10:51
He said,

Alex Ferrari 10:52
So so so how many mansions Do you own now? And how many cars and are there crazy parties with naked women? That's the way it's about it's like entourage right? That's what I really try to preach man on on indie film hustle, man just to kind of break down that kind of, I just want people to like understand the realities of the business, and then try to make it within that reality and not to just constantly be thrown because we're sold this this Hollywood dream. And I always tell people who don't live in LA. I like you know where the Oscars are. I go Yeah, if you go to Hollywood Boulevard, when the Oscars are not running. It's not a really nice place. Yeah, it's it's like a disgusting cesspool. A place except for maybe that one block and even that one block you've got those weirdos coming out, just a spider man. It's, it's it's gonna go that's a perfect analogy of Hollywood. Like it's on TV. It looks insane. And otherworldly. Yeah, yeah, it looks like oh my god, this is you know, the streets are paved with gold and all this stuff. And it's it's not the reality of what the business is like. So, um, so I was gonna ask you a little bit about working because you've worked with some insane people, you know, some insane actors, Some legends, and obviously big movie stars, like Will Smith and stuff. How does it? How do you work? What What can you give advice to an actor who's working with someone of that caliber for the first time, because I can imagine is intimidating, working with, like, with tuuk, like, on an interpreter, you worked with Sean Penn and, and Nicole Kidman like that, you know, on on the in the UN no less. So like, how did you like walk into that first meeting with them? And like what cuz they're Legends? And you know, they're Oscar winners and stuff? How do you work? What What advice would you give to an actor like working with that caliber of of performance,

Adrian Martinez 12:44
I would say you have to approach it completely prepared, like know your lines, so well that you could say them as quickly as you can count to 10. You know, like, no matter how nervous you are, you can still count to 10. Because you got that down, Pat. That's how well you got to know your lights. So you don't even have to worry about that on the day. And then actually, I think it's really important to just be respectful. And say, I'm a great fan of your work. Looking forward to working with you. And usually, like nine times out of 10, the stars are very, very far, you know, generous and cool. They'll they go Yeah, it's gonna be great. or wherever, yeah, have a good time or something like that, right? And then and pay real close attention to, to not being too chatty, you know, like, if the star wants to talk, great, talk all night. But otherwise, just, you know, go over your lines, keep in mind what your objectives are. Stay focused on the job at hand, be professional, be professional, be professional. And I feel that's been that's that's worked for me. If you try to Don't try to say, hey, by the way, like between takes Listen, I wrote a script.

Alex Ferrari 14:13
Think I will? Well, I think you would be awesome in this.

Adrian Martinez 14:18
Yeah, I'm doing a remake of three amigos with Phil Smith and Ben Stiller. While you're walking away, hey, it's just not gonna work. Right? It's just not the time and place there's a protocol is a procedure you know, like, right. And this this happens, you know, no matter where you are in the food chain, you know, like people, people Facebook be with messages about I get this great script and you've been great for it. I don't know who you are. Now, you have to, you have to just kind of work your way into the system and earn the right to, to work with X, Y and Z. And so you definitely don't do that. On a set, unless they say, hey, by the way, I got nothing to do over the next three years. Do you have any script?

Alex Ferrari 15:10
Which has happened say how many? How many times does that happen? It's the equivalent of a good client coming to me and going all I have his time and money.

Adrian Martinez 15:19
Yeah. It's never happened in human history shouldn't happen,Okay,

Alex Ferrari 15:26
Then you can bust out that script you've been carrying around for five years in the back pocket, right? But you might have to cut in line for the grip because the grip also has a script.

Adrian Martinez 15:34
Everybody has a script in LA, it's so funny.

Alex Ferrari 15:37
I was I was talking to Michael Haig, who's a script guru out here in LA and I go, you know, every time I walk into a Starbucks, there's at least three or four laptops with with final draft open. Yeah, any Starbucks anywhere in LA at any time. And if not, someone's talking about it. It's something so unique to this town. It's not like that in New York by any stretch. But here it's crazy like that everyone has a script. So what was your what would you consider your big break in the business? Like after you've got this you're like, Okay, now I can make a living doing this?

Adrian Martinez 16:14
Well, you know, it's hard for me to say because I, you know, I haven't had a regular job in 15 years, but, but I don't know, I can't, I can't, you know, it's I don't know. I mean, I guess my career is different from someone else's like, like Jambo Jaeger. I'd like to break.

Alex Ferrari 16:35
You think you think Yeah, little independent film? He just started out, right? Yeah, like, I don't know how the hell that hat like Daisy, Daisy railly Ridley Ridley, I think your name out Ridley Yeah, like, that's kind of jumpstarts everything a little bit, you know, but look, look, and it could look

Adrian Martinez 16:53
In different kinds of careers. You know, there's the career like that, where you just get incredibly lucky, and you just pop and, and they find you and you're, and you're 20 and you're set for life. That happens 1% of the time. For the most part, I would, I would suggest that careers are more about building blocks, and time and patience. You need to be willing to put in at least the next 10 years of your life, auditioning and working towards building up credits getting established in the casting community. And then maybe one day, you get a chance to do something special. But the system has changed from when I started out and the 90s. So now I think it's more about really self generating work. And I tell this to people all the time that, you know, you can literally like take your script and do it yourself on an iPhone. There's a movie called tangerine that just got a Golden Globe nomination or an Independent Spirit Award nomination and it was completely shattered an iPhone. It got into Sundance

Alex Ferrari 18:05
Won Sundance they won Sunday.

Adrian Martinez 18:07
So you know, it's not like, Oh, you need anyone elses permission to to make it you can totally do it yourself that it has to be a great story. It has to be a unique spin on something. You do have to do the work. But it's possible. Much more than say waiting by the phone. And you know, just wondering, you know, How come nobody gives me a break. Like, forget all that forget that you don't need anyone's permission to work not anymore. Now, now we just can't use it as an excuse. You're always working as an actor, either you're auditioning, you should always be working either you're auditioning or you're in performance, preparing and doing the work itself or yourself generating your own work. And those are the three you know you so if that's what use you set up for yourself, you are always working you know, do you have a website? Do you have a killer reel? Have you shot your short film with your buddies or whatever? Have you written your full length script? In case they liked the short film version of it and they want to give you you know 300,000 to shoot the feature like these are the things you need to do have you started a Kickstarter campaign for the movie that you really feel will resonate with an audience do all that and then say you know you got nothing to do

Alex Ferrari 19:37
One thing I find fascinating about your career because ever since we met five years ago you know you've popped you know, ever since I met you then you started coming up in things I watch all the time I'm like oh there's age you know there's Adrian there's agent Yeah. And and you know, and it just you just started popping up and then I started kind of analyzing because I had I mean I'm I have a lot of actor friends and friends in the business and stuff. So I always Like to analyze people's careers and how they do what they do and how they're getting there it's just something I do because I'm still trying to make it as well doing what I do so what I noticed that you do you do i mean i don't know i torture actors at workshops in Santa Fe

Adrian Martinez 20:19
Movies you like it you know what I'm saying?

Alex Ferrari 20:24
Well sir, I am I am a director and independent filmmaker and director I've been in post production for about 20 years so that's where I kind of make my bones that's where I make my money and then I direct music videos commercials, and then I do my own projects short films and things like that. And then I'm always looking for that feature and I'm this year coming up I'm making I'm gonna be hopefully making my first feature film. Just like you said, bootstrapping it myself doing it myself with you know, more read more resources than most people have at their disposal between connections post knowledge cameras, all this stuff I have there's no excuse anymore.

Adrian Martinez 21:02
I like the role of the chubby Latina you have in that that's the one role that can really

Alex Ferrari 21:11
Do you know someone they know someone I can do if you if you can connect me to Luis Guzman, that'd be awesome

Adrian Martinez 21:21
He's booked for the next five years but I do know someone else.

Alex Ferrari 21:25
What I was saying about your career specifically is a lot of a lot of actors always are like trying to I don't know they're trying to be someone they're not they're trying to be the next this or the next that and what I've noticed from studying you at least from this point of view, is that you've been you you're Adrian Martinez there is no other Adrian Martinez out there and that's what's made you successful

Adrian Martinez 21:48
I think we're all relieved about that

Alex Ferrari 21:54
But the thing is that there is no one else like you out there I've never seen like there's like oh there's another Adrian Martinez type No there isn't there is only one Adrian Martinez. And by and by doing what you've done, and like doubling down and tripling down on who you are, you've been able to make a successful career, doing it and reaching reaching heights that a lot of actors don't do. where a lot of actors I've seen and I've worked with like oh I want to be this next Tom Cruise or I want to be the next this or that? And like look good, that's great. And you know how many like out here how many actors you know, like all the leading men, actors and all this kind of stuff. They all try to go after the big like, Look, just be yourself. You know, and if you happen to be Tom Cruise, great. If you happen to be Will Smith, great. But if you're who you are like I know, we did a great interview with Yancey areas and I think do you know Yancey? Yes. I love Yancey and yes he is he's one of those like you he's one of those workhorses guys that discipline pound in it for years. And yes, he and I've worked on a lot of projects together. He's a good friend of mine. And we and he I'm like I said the same thing. I'm like, Yes, you just do you. Like that's who you are, you're not trying to be anybody else. And I think that's the best advice you can give anybody in this business or in any business in general, but in the film business, as a director or as a writer as this or that. Just do you and I think you said you quoted I think in an interview once you quoted about No one's going to tell a better story. The Truth About You better than you or something along those lines.

Adrian Martinez 23:20
Well yeah, I mean, the most Absolutely. You know, sexy seductive thing is a person, a person that's completely confident in themselves and they're able to trust who they are, you know, to the nth degree, and they bring that into an audition completely trusting who they are. There's nothing more magnetic than that. The second they see you try to be someone else. They smell it yeah, it just pops in the room and you know and it's like someone just farted and it's no no no no, no no no that we've been there and done that. Yeah. It's the person that is completely comfortable with who they are. Like a Will Smith like a bell stellar like a Yancey area. So as terrific actor, yeah, these guys just they just trust who they are. And to to a level that is just, you know, oh, yeah, completely, you know, fantastic. And that's what's so magnetic. That's why we go to the movies and we see these these stars of performance. And I think subconsciously, you know, we want to be them on some level, you know, saving people's lives or getting the girl or getting the guy or getting you know what I mean? Like it's just like, it's all it starts. The Genesis is a complete, embracing of who they are as an individual. That's how it all begins.

Alex Ferrari 24:59
Like someone like the rock, who is the rock, and the rock, man, he's the rock he's, and he is so charismatic because he is who he is. And he tried being somebody else when he first started in the WWF. And it failed miserably. People smelled it, like you said,

Adrian Martinez 25:15
Like, Will Smith, he's intelligent, he's charismatic. He's funny. Offset, and when he works, it's the same skill set and the same essence of person that he is that that translates into these fantastic performances, and you have to see him in concussion.

Alex Ferrari 25:36
Oh, I know. I can't wait to see that. It's amazing

Adrian Martinez 25:40
But yeah, I mean, so that's what it is. It's about an absolute faith and trust in who you are as an individual. And then you add on the idiosyncratic idiosyncratic behavior of the character, right or the or the mannerisms or the whatever it is, like Johnny Depp and Black Mass Johnny Depp was Johnny Depp. You know, he's a he can be a very brooding soulful actor like Donnie Brasco. Right? Um, but then he adds on the mannerisms and the look and the whatever the character and black mass and so that's how you do it, man.

Alex Ferrari 26:23
It's like, well, like, like, um, I think, in today's generation, as far as directors are concerned, I mean, the directors that people really love to go see are people who just know who they are and love. And they have their style, and they don't even try to be anybody else. And I think the best one of the best examples of that is Tarantino, like, he doesn't care. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make, I'm gonna make my movie. I'm gonna say whatever the hell I want to say, and this is who I am. And that's it. But that, yeah, that confidence as a filmmaker is so rare. Like I was watching last year I saw Birdman. And I was like, I love that. And I watched Birdman and I go, Oh, that's what a director does. Again, you lose. You forget after you watch all of these big Hollywood stuff that just keeps popping out. It's just the same old recycled crap from the 80s in the 90s. At this point, you know,

Adrian Martinez 27:14
I have to say, and it too is like the guy I would love to work with. I mean, I I just saw The Revenant and oh, I'm dying to see that is a good once again. Yeah, it's fantastic. And it's it's so brutally honest. Like every say, it's just so brutally honest. And the performance is so great. Tom Hardy Caprio. Yeah. I play the bear in that.

Alex Ferrari 27:45
It was not on your IMDb. You got to get your agent on that.

Adrian Martinez 27:48
Yeah, well, yeah. You know, we went back and forth. We're working on an uncredited situation. But the movies just like even the bear was good. I mean,

Alex Ferrari 28:00
The CG bear was fantastic.

Adrian Martinez 28:04
But yeah, once again, we're talking about a vision that's unique, that he completely trusts and he just does it. And it's just that's it. And nobody tells him how to do this, his movies that he just does,

Alex Ferrari 28:17
Right, and now he's at a point, we could do whatever you want. And now you can do whatever he wants. Yeah. Now you as an actor, you're able to do something that a lot of actors don't do easily is transition between comedy and drama. And you do it with such ease. Sometimes it's remarkable to watch, because I've seen you in some stuff that is just dropped down on the floor, crying that's so funny. And then you've done some amazing, dramatic stuff as well. Can you give any advice to actors about how you're able to do that? Because that's something that's very unique tools, you know, skill set?

Adrian Martinez 28:49
Yeah, I mean, basically, you still have to approach every role the same initially, but for comedy, you have to keep in mind the tone of it, it's sort of at the back of your head. But you don't play the comedy, you play the given circumstances of the same. You play your connection with the other character in the same and you play the truth of the moment. Absolutely. The Comedy just sort of, it's like in the back of your mind, it's layered in. But the different forms of comedy, there's satire, and there's more of that there's a dramedy that we see a lot of. So basically, stick to the truth of the same. be absolutely real and genuine and committed, no matter what it is. And let the tone of the piece, keep it in the back of your mind. But don't play it. Play the truth of the state and the truth of the moment and just let it be like that.

Alex Ferrari 29:48
Now, this question is a it's a large question. So see, let me see if you can answer it in the best you can. What makes a good actor

Adrian Martinez 29:57
You believe him while you believe her I mean, it's absolutely about the suspension of disbelief like, you watch a performance and you don't really fake Oh, that's acting.

Alex Ferrari 30:13
Kind of like when, like when Meryl Streep works.

Adrian Martinez 30:17
Yeah. I mean you just believe this the Marlon Brando in The Godfather. Yeah, I thought to myself, initially Wow, look at Brando, he's you know, it looks funny his jaws look inflated or something. But right around the start of the second I completely forgot it was brand new I was watching someone else right? Like I it was a transformation to me that and I really believed him to be this omnipotent powerful man that could kill people like that. But was also, you know, a human being with that loved his sons, right? I mean, that's that's fine art. There are a lot of that a lot of actors that do that. I think today working today. I mean, I would have to go with Daniel Day Lewis as the one that's able to just completely transform without losing himself. Like I think his soul, his intelligence, his spirit is in every performance that's sort of like the building block of the house. And then he adds on Lincoln, or he adds on gates on New York character. Yeah, I mean, but the essence is still him. But it's the ability to see a performance and and really believe it and and just sort of go with it and forget that it's a performance. That to me is great acting

Alex Ferrari 31:53
Now just just on the Daniel Day Lewis for the kids in the audience. Go Google Daniel Day Lewis, and Google a movie called my left foot. Oh, yeah. And that was the first time I was working in a video store back then. And I saw, I saw Daniel Day Lewis in my left foot, and I had no idea who he was. And nobody knew really, he was still coming up at that point. And I remember watching it and going, Oh, my God, I can't believe they found a guy who has this issue. Yeah, to be able to play this part. That's remarkable. And when I saw him stand up, except the Oscar was on the floor. That's where I was. I was a couple and at that since that day, I was like, wow, that's acting, and I got what acting was at that point in the game. Like, you completely had no idea that that man was not, you know, did not have the issues that that uh, I forgot. I forgot the character's name, but the character had remarkable. Absolutely. No, Meryl Streep. I mean, that's why she gets nominated every year. Because every time she does anything, she kind of does that. It's Yeah. It's and I was listening to. I think

Adrian Martinez 33:02
I like that joke with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler were at the Golden Globes. Which one they said, Tina, they said Omarosa could be here tonight. She has the flu. And she's amazing. That's totally killed.

Alex Ferrari 33:19
That's really no, I had a I did an interview with Robert Forster. A while ago when I had, I've had the pleasure of working with him. And he told me Quinn's best direction to him was, he would stand right right before the scene he goes, just make me believe it. And that was it. That was his direction. And he'd say it often on set. And that's true. That's that's the job of the actor is to make the audience believe it. So now, I know you've you've been in that you've been in the business for a few years now. Five years, it lasts about five, five years. And you've gone through a few auditions in your day. A couple I'm sure. Um, can you please give any advice to actors about how they should handle the brutal sometimes brutal auditioning process?

Adrian Martinez 34:06
Well, I think the main thing is to stay on an even keel about it all, you know, like, whether it's an audition, or just a business in general, you just have to understand that there going to be times you get good news. Don't get too excited. Right? Take pride, but don't get crazy. there gonna be times you'll get bad news. They'll get all depressed, try to stay in an even place because that's where you're going to have to sustain yourself. It's that even place where you're going to live most of the time, the business will come and the business will go you're going to work and you're not going to work. But you have to be able to keep yourself and fill out your life with the people you love and, and go to a museum and really fill out your days. Not obsessing about the work because the work comes and goes As for your audition, I really feel you have to know your lines as best as possible. be absolutely prepared. Don't go in trying to shake hands and, and give out cookies, that's not gonna work. If they offer you a handshake, yeah, of course you shake their head said sit down, or stand up, give yourself a moment to take a sort of deep breath and reconnect with, with yourself as a person. Just give yourself that be. And sometimes they want to just like plow through all that. You have a right say, Sorry, I just need a moment. Right? Even Sorry, excuse me, I just need a moment. And just take that deep breath rechannel your energy go. And that has because sometimes you get caught up into giving them your power, you know, like, Oh, God, we got to start right away. Just do you do this? Yeah, I like to, I like to stand out, I want to set a rule for yourself, you have a right to take your time with the piece and you have a right to, to do it as you feel you need to do it. And then the directors in the room or get likes you Who asked you to do it differently. Right? If he wants to know that, on the day that you'll be able to take direction, because things change on set. So he wants to know if you can go with the flow. So they asked you to do it a different way. That is I mean, they didn't like the first take it means they did like the first take.

Now the direction in case that becomes a necessity. In TV, for example, scripts are written and rewritten while you're actually filming. So

Alex Ferrari 37:03
Yeah, now what? Can you talk a little bit about the difference between film and television? Because you've done so much of both?

Adrian Martinez 37:10
Yeah, well film is is. It depends on what kind of movies to like independent movies, you can improvise a lot of independent movies, you could improvise in feature films, a lot of what I did in the movie focus was improvised. I had two records that really respected me and trusted me and knew how demented I was. So they were like, you are, yeah, if you ever want to say stuff, you know, that you think is funny, go ahead and say it. TV, that's not gonna happen, because TV goes through an advertiser, it goes through standards and practices, it goes through all these different levels of censorship, and you know, copyrights and all this. So what's written is what you're going to say. So you have to be willing to understand that and just make it your own as best as possible. So that's one difference. I think time is different, like time and TV, when you're filming television, it just goes by a lot faster that they're basically making a short film every eight days, if you're on a TV series, so every eight days, they have to cast it, set up the locations, produce it, shoot it, and do the post production for like one episode of the goodwife ad. So given that, you know world, they have to shoot fast, so you're gonna get like one, one or two takes top, you know, and then if you're like the guest star, it's interesting how it works. If you have a view that they are they'll do a master shot and they really like you. They like what they what they're saying. They'll take the time to add in a close up of you. And that's like the highest compliment like that's when they say like let's move in on Adrian for a single, that means they feel they've got the goods and they are going to spend the time and the money and it's a lot of money to ask these professional cameraman to move in on your face and capture you in this way. On a single close up. That's interested not crazy about you, they'll stay with the master and move on. Or they'll do like maybe a three shot just to kind of like but the highest compliment you can get on a TV set because it's so expensive, is when the director says let's get a close up of Adrian let's get a close up of Alex because that means they really feel they got the chops and you got the chops and they want to see it more.

Alex Ferrari 39:54
Definitely let's not get too close up on Alex please. Yeah, please No, no close ups on Alice. I'm I'm a behind the back. Let's pull back Yes, go back to the wide guy split.

Adrian Martinez 40:04
Cleveland.

Alex Ferrari 40:07
So So another thing I'm, you know, I'm a director so I, I've worked with actors a lot and and I ncse this question as well and I wanted to ask you, our acting classes needed for act for an actor to become an actor.

Adrian Martinez 40:25
Um, you know, I feel like it's one of those things where it can be helpful. If you have the right teacher, you should have a basic craft, you know, you should know how to break down a script. And, you know, Buddha Hagen was certainly a wonderful teacher. And her book respect for acting is very helpful. And it's good to go to classes if, if you feel like you just need to be in front of people and just work it. It's important to do that. But don't get too, you know, attached to acting classes. Like, there's a lot of people I have known over the years that like, yeah, I'm an actor. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What are you working on? Oh, I'm doing the signal. Oh, yeah. What are you doing the signal? Oh, HB studio at? Right. Oh, yeah. Are you doing things that Yeah, I'm doing the same. Okay. And then you like two years go by four years go by six years? What are you doing? I'm doing Waiting for Godot? Oh, yeah. What are you doing that? Oh, well, HP studio. Like, alright, I know people that they love the safety net that an acting class provides. And so they just, they're afraid to break out of that. I've met people like that over the years. So do it. But don't get married to it. You know, like, just remember, you know, you want to be a professional at work, you know, and make a living at it. You know, and that's not going to happen in a class. So, but I think if you're starting out, you know, it's good. I think if you haven't worked in a while and just want to get back in shape, it's good. Just don't get too attached, because it can become a blankie. A blankie.

Alex Ferrari 42:24
For lack of a better term. Yeah, I completely understand. Trust me, I understand that completely. Now, one thing I know, an actor's get this more than anything. I think it's it's brutal. And anytime I'm in a directing, I always feel for the actors. How do you handle rejection? Because it's so much and so often? How do you handle it?

Adrian Martinez 42:46
Yeah, well, it goes back to staying on that even keel and understanding that it's not. It's not about you, you have to see yourself as, as like, you know, like a car that they're trying to sell. Right. And so we need we need a Honda. Okay. And you you might be a Ferrari.

Alex Ferrari 43:10
No pun intended.

Adrian Martinez 43:11
Yeah. And so yeah, you know, a Ferrari is great. You know, fries are amazing. But we need a Honda.

Alex Ferrari 43:22
Ferrari is never going to be a Honda.

Adrian Martinez 43:24
No, no, or vice versa. You know, we need a Ferrari, you had your hand you just saw. So you're like, you're not you can be great in the audition. You can be prepared and focused and so wonderful. But you're not going to get it because they just need that forearm. Right? And that's fine. But it's really important, though, to take pride in your work at the audition, like it's really important that the universities that you're prepared and you're doing the work, so that when you leave that audition, you can say you know what, whatever happens, I don't care. I nailed it, and I nailed it. And you can let it go there's a great scene in the movie that Gene Hackman did called Hoosiers no yeah. And what he's talking to the team and it's before the big games like let's you know focus on your fundamentals you know, really nail this and no matter what happens I don't care what the score says your winners in my book, you know, as I said, Before this you know, like, you go in and you nail it, and then you just got to release it. Right? Otherwise it's just gonna drive you crazy.

Alex Ferrari 44:37
Well that's one thing that Yancey actually said that same said something similar in the sense that he you go in no matter what the audition is, you do the best you can because you never know what comes down the line. This might not be the right project for this directory. You but the next one might and they might

Adrian Martinez 44:52
Happen to me too. Yeah, that just happened to me. I i audition for The TV show four series regular I picked out what it was and I didn't get it and and I really was good like I really good everything I had and it smelled really good I thought it was right for it and then I found out that they wanted someone who looked more demonic and more dark skinned and all this which is funny because I'm part Dominican.

Alex Ferrari 45:32
Of course of course can you be Can you be more Dominican We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Adrian Martinez 45:49
But I'm kinda like fair skin so I guess in their mind they just thought we need someone darker skin so that's the perception of the mannequin so um, two months later I got an offer like a straight offer for a pilot and when I did the research it was the same director that I had auditioned for for that TV show and he remembered so he kept my good performance at the audition in mind and then when let something more appropriate came up he just made me the offer to do it. And he talked about it I worked on it we shot it he talked about how you know how cool I was at that audition and and he's glad to finally work with me so you just you got to go in there prepared and kill it no matter what because you never know how things are gonna play out.

Alex Ferrari 46:45
Exactly you know and I've I've known that God I mean look at this I mean I've I've met so many people during that now leap those nine leap workshops I did three or four years ago and those connections and people that relationships you've made they've you know, it's amazing how they they five seven years later you connect with people again you like all because of that and you know, if I was a complete asked to you during that time, I would have not been able to have you on the show, you know so you know in some something as simple as being nice to somebody you never know anything. You never know how that relationship can grow and grow and grow like me and Nancy, you know, he asked, we met we did a little something and then it kind of grew into a really a friendship. It's just the way things is now which is a perfect segue into my next question about networking. How do you network as an actor in Hollywood? And how important is it to you is for you and your career as far as networking with other actors, producers, directors, any advice?

Adrian Martinez 47:43
Well, you know, I have to say, you know, one of the big modern skills is social media, because there are a lot of casting directors on Facebook. So when you go to a movie, and you like the movie, just take note of who the casting director is, and take note of who the casting director associates are, and assistants are, and jot down their names, and friend them on Facebook, and just say, Hey, I thought you did a great job with the movie sisters. Please keep in mind for whatever, they can friend you or they could not friend you but so if they friend you then then you can you know you're in a movie or something, you can send them a link, you can send them your reel. And they'll see it I've gotten word from people that you know, so I mean on Facebook or casting people in Facebook. And they they connected to me that that that that that happened that was not the case 10 years ago.

Alex Ferrari 48:45
So then basically what you should shouldn't do is just the second you you message them just ask them for something right away. Yeah, which is that a lot of people did, like you were saying people just call you up, like, I want you to be in my apartment. Who are you? You have to build a relationship, even socially

Adrian Martinez 49:00
You have to build a relationship. Yeah. And be respectful. Now a lot of times, you know, like, I friend casting people that I know, that I've worked with, like, and I didn't know they were on Facebook, right? Like Jen Euston. She's, she's amazing. She's she cast girls. And she casts Orange is the New Black Grinch. And, and, and she's, you know, I've, I've bought several projects with her office, you know, so at that point, I had a relationship with her. And then I saw her on Facebook and I friended her, and she accepted it because she knows me. And then, you know, I said, oh, by the way, I'm in the movie focus. And I invited her to, to the premiere. So you know, you can do that, you know, they know you. If you don't know the casting person. I think it's fair. Once they put out there on social media, I think it's fair to say Listen, I understand. I don't know your work. I haven't worked with you. I haven't gotten into but I saw your casting. And you know the movie, you know, Spider Man and I just, I thought he did a great job with that. Here's my link, if you ever get the time to check it out, I just leave it like that. And then just leave it like that. I mean, like, really leave it like that. block you because you kept writing and never got a response.

Alex Ferrari 50:23
Right, right. Drop seeds, drop seeds and see if anything flashes feed, see what happens. Float some balloons. So, um, now how do you prepare for part as an actor? I always find this part fascinating.

Adrian Martinez 50:40
I don't know I have an unusual approach.

Alex Ferrari 50:44
Why doesn't that surprise me?

Adrian Martinez 50:48
I yeah, I look at the script. And I really try to bring a unique spin on the character. Like I always try to find the humor. Absolutely. Because I think even the most cruel people can be funny. I remember Forrest Whitaker, he played that dictator.

Alex Ferrari 51:16
No, yeah. Last last minute Scotland. Yeah.

Adrian Martinez 51:19
Yeah, I mean, he was fantastic in that. But when you look at he's a charming guy. You know, he was he was funny. In that movie. He was charming. He was filled with light. But at the same time, there was all this power and destruction going on. So that's that's important is to find that humor, and then I always try, like, I always try to come up with like, a physicality that I think represents the character. I did a movie call. It's kind of a funny story with Zach Galifianakis and Viola Davis. And if you see that movie, like, I'm always like, combing my hair or fiddling with my hair. And it's not something overt. But to me, like that character who was in this adult Group Hall, where people haven't seen it, and he's kind of like, has some mental illness. To me, his his Look, the characters look, and how he was always obsessed with His hair was a way into the character. So if you see the movie, you'll see me always like, tapping my hair or combing my hair, or like just checking on it. And I did a movie called Casa de me, Padre. Yeah. It's so funny. I, I used an avocado for that, like getting like To me, this guy was either always trying to share it avocado, eating an avocado.

Alex Ferrari 52:52
And that was something you brought to the table. It was

Adrian Martinez 52:55
Yeah. And I had to fight for it. Because the writer was like, well, it's not in the script. Like I was like, Yeah, no, it's not in the script. But this is just my way of bringing something into it, that expands on the role. And that's fun. Yeah, I just feel like you have to bring something that's unique to the role. And so when I go through the script, base based on what I read, I try to come up with something that I think expands on the role, and it's just sort of interesting and interesting spin on it. And then if the directors are okay with it, you know, I'll add some dialogue, either at the top of a speech or at the bottom of the speech that I think will make it funnier, or more moving or whatever. But make sure please don't write to me and make me make sure the director is cool with that. Right? And usually in movies they are like they'll say, like, yeah, we'll do a one way scripted. And then we'll just do one way and we'll get to play around, right? When they play around, be prepared and have your ideas you know, at the ready, but make sure they work make sure it feels work.

Alex Ferrari 54:12
And also that they're open to it and they're open to it like what's it like with Robin Williams? That's all they did. They just like okay, they scheduled in his improv.

Adrian Martinez 54:22
Yeah, I guess the line in the movie focus where I say I'm accusing Margot Robbie of being a lesbian, you know, right. Yeah. And I say

Alex Ferrari 54:37
Every time you talk to every time you speak, I always smile is vagina or something like that.

Adrian Martinez 54:41
Yeah. And so, you know, that made the cat because A, the directors were open to it. And be Margot Robbie did not break character. He starts laughing stops to take the next It's not in the movie. But the fact that she stayed in character saved my ass. And that's a tribute to her professionalism that she just went with it.

Alex Ferrari 55:10
That's brutal. You know. And I saw that scene. I remember I saw the movie, it was funny as you did the whole Scarface tongue thing, which was nice.

Adrian Martinez 55:17
Well, yeah, that's my little.

Alex Ferrari 55:22
You know what the women love me. Anyway. So and So you've obviously been an amazing, you know, you've had an amazing acting career so far. Now you're getting into directing and producing as well,correct?

Adrian Martinez 55:34
Yeah, I mean, I feel like you absolutely. Like what I said before about soul generating work. Because I'm definitely a character actor, I've been the sidekick to a lot of stars. That does come a point where you want to also be able to say, what you feel is important, you know, not just be a plot device for someone else's ideas. And so to that end, I've written a few scripts that I'm going to get off the ground next year, and I'm really excited about it, because it's a chance to, to, you know, really lay claim to an idea. And from start to finish.

Alex Ferrari 56:15
And you're working on some, you've done some micro shorts, like improvisational shorts.

Adrian Martinez 56:21
Yeah, I mean, that's another thing that I really hope people do is like, you know, just grab your buddy and just start, start shooting something and put it on YouTube like this a guy I worked with a while too many call alexan fangire. Alex is a good guy. He's like, I don't know, it was like, 25 or something. And he had a bunch of shorts that he did. And Ben stole his company. caught wind of it. And now he's doing big time in Hollywood for Comedy Central. Nice. And he's, you know, the exec producer, and the creator of it, and he's on his way, you know, so it can happen, it can happen. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 57:09
So one thing I've noticed doing indie film, hustle, and this is something I've never had done it, you know, I'm consistently doing work, I'm consistently putting out content, meeting new people. And the and the blog is almost had, it's almost forced me, too, because I have a schedule that I keep every you know, I do a podcast every week, and I do a blog post every week and, and I'm constantly working towards putting out good content. And it's that every day thing like you have to keep showing up, you have to keep, like Woody Allen says half of Was it 80 or 90% of success is just showing up or something along those lines. By doing that consistently, all of a sudden, you'd look back and you're like, Oh, I got 40 episodes, a podcast, oh, look, I've, I've got you know, 40 article posts all of a sudden, and then all of a sudden, you turn around and you look back, and like, Oh, I'm on my 100th episode. And then that's what you start doing. And a lot of these guys who've made made it in YouTube, that's what they do. They just show up every day. And it just post every week or every other day, or whatever their schedule is. And then all of a sudden, they have this breadth of, of product out there. And yeah, people take notice.

Adrian Martinez 58:22
They do. And it's interesting, because we live in an age where like, the smartphone has everything immediately, you know, a restaurant, immediately you'll get it if you want, you know, a store immediately you'll get it. Something on Google, you know, but a career is more requires a great deal of perseverance and patience. And nobody wants to hear that like right now.

Alex Ferrari 58:48
Like you said,

Adrian Martinez 58:50
Just change the channel. They didn't want to hear that.

Alex Ferrari 58:52
But like, like you said, when we first started, before we go on that there's like, Oh, great, we're gonna get the depressed people for the holidays. We're recording this during the holidays, but it'll probably be released later in the year. But yeah, it's true. It's true. It's It's It's, it's sometimes it's a tough pill to swallow.

Adrian Martinez 59:08
And you have to be open to that you have to understand that it really is a marathon. And you have to pace yourself and keep going. You're going to hit walls, there'll be times you don't want to do it anymore. And that's okay. There'll be times when you feel like empowered and you want to take on the world. So it's definitely it's not for everyone. You'll have to put in the time, like I said, at least 10 years. But if you're ready to fight the fight if you feel like you have no other choice, yeah, then I wish you well.

Alex Ferrari 59:45
Now I'm, you've worked with some amazing directors. Adrian, what do you look for in a director.

Adrian Martinez 59:56
I want to feel safe. I don't want to feel like If I make a mistake that I'm going to be yelled at, I don't want to feel I, what I bring to the set doesn't matter. I'm a unique person, and I wanted to wreck it that gets who I am, and is willing to work with me. based on who I am in a safe atmosphere. You're there to fulfill the director's vision. But I still feel it should be a collaboration. I mean, he hired you, right? He hired you. And you're there to fulfill the vision. But obviously, they should be open and receptive to who you are, and to what your talents are, because each actor brings a different set of skills. And I think it's the smart director that's open to that. And then the stance that and says, Yeah, let's see what you got. And if it works, it works.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:57
That's not the first actor that spoken to who said that. That's, I think the number one thing that a lot of Robert forester said the same thing. And he actually said to He's like, and someone else also knows what they want is another big thing he's like, it's just someone who knows when the tape is good. And I don't have to sit there and do it. 40 times.

Adrian Martinez 1:01:18
Yeah, exactly. exactly.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:21
So are there any pitfalls that you can give actors advice on in the business, like any pitfalls in the business that you can give them warnings about

Adrian Martinez 1:01:31
Warning warnings? Um, ah, gee, I don't know. There are people who are not well in the business.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:49
That is the best way I've ever heard anyone. There's people who are not well in the business, that's great.

Adrian Martinez 1:01:56
So when you're on set, be prepared. Sometimes people will be inappropriate, sometimes will be unprofessional. And you have to decide for yourself what you're going to put up with, and what you're not going to put up with and know that going in. Right? If you're a woman, you know, and you're on set and someone tries or even if you're mad, and someone tries to exploit you, or in some way be inappropriate, you have a right to walk away. Right? And you have a right to to go to the first ad and say and say something just make sure that you understand what your power is and your power you have you have a right to defend yourself and protect yourself and not be in an unsafe situation. Under any circumstances. No job is so important that it means you you degrade yourself to get the job done. So keep that in mind keep your dignity no matter what.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:10
That's great advice.

Adrian Martinez 1:03:13
The rules have changed it used to be like in terms of money like they would fly you out to to be a recurring role. Now, there's a lot of local hires. So if you're an LA actor, and you want to work in New York and Orange is the New Black you're probably gonna do it for scale then not gonna fly out and you need to understand that you know, that's how it is and you have to decide well do I still want to do it same thing in reverse. I got offered a recurring on some TV show. It was in LA they wanted to be they wanted me to be an LA local hire. Even though I live in New York and I you know, I did the math I said not not going to do it. They should fly me out and put me up. Right? So they that that one didn't work out. But you take each one differently. Like there was another case where I would be an LA local hire because it was a favorite for a friend and and I thought the role was special enough. So just know that, you know, sometimes you're gonna have to spend to earn.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:30
Amen. A bed. Now, this is one of the I got two more, a couple more questions left engine. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn in film business or in life?

Adrian Martinez 1:04:47
Oh my god. Paging Oprah. Let's see. Well Say that again.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:57
So what is the lesson in life or in the film business that is took you the longest to learn. In other words, you might have beat your head against the wall a couple times, until finally like, Oh, this is why this is happening. Oh, this is what I should do.

Adrian Martinez 1:05:10
Um Great question, Alex, I would have to go with I am enough.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:20
Wow, what a great answer. I am enough.

Adrian Martinez 1:05:26
You know, you can spend so much time like, worried about your weight, your height, your skin tone, you can spend so much time worried about so many things at the end of the day. It really just comes down to trust in accepting who you are, as you are today, in this given moment, and it is a gift that the world receives it, you're doing the world a favor letting that out they're not doing you a favor. I mean, the light that you were born with is the light that they want to see. At auditions and in performances. You were born with that light and you don't need anyone else to filter it or change it. That's it. You were born with it. So just trust it and shine.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:26
There's like five t shirts in that entire answer. That's awesome. That's some words to live by my friend. It's That's wonderful, man. Really, really great answer to that. So these are the last two questions that are the most fun questions, but also arguably one of the I asked this of all of my guests, which is the one most underrated film you've ever seen. And then what are your top three favorite films of all time?

Adrian Martinez 1:06:52
I'll take the second with favorite films. grandfather's, the Godfather one and two. The Shawshank Redemption

Alex Ferrari 1:07:07
Man after my own heart

Adrian Martinez 1:07:10
And the tear runner okay. Of course it's very hard to answer that. Now of course talking sci fi Of course of course and it's of course Blade Runner. Talking fantasy in the woods you know the Wizard of Oz should go crazy. Right? Right. Um movie that's that's underrated is a movie called cheese. People need to see the Elephant Man starring. JOHN hurt as the Elephant Man, David Lynch. It was his first movie. Yep. And it's just really a fantastic movie that you should catch on Netflix over where it is these days. It'll break your heart and to me that's that's one thing I want to make sure that your audience understands is, is you should always really think of the characters pain. Every character has a great pain in his in his life. And that's that's from that's from Georgia South who was an actor. He did five movies all got Oscar nominated. And he was in. He was Fredo in The Godfather. He was in talk they afternoon. Fantastic actor. And he is talking about how Every character has a pain that and from that pain, you can build your performance because when you think about it, you know we're all motivated, motivated by avoiding pain or over in pain. So that's a great a great thing to hold on to. But yeah, I would go with the Alpha Man, you can really feel the emotional power of the performances in that. But there's so many

Alex Ferrari 1:09:09
No of course there's millions or hundreds, hundreds of 1000s of them but yeah, now where can people find you and find find out more about you.

Adrian Martinez 1:09:17
I'll give you all my address. I'm at

Alex Ferrari 1:09:21
My my home address is 1152

Adrian Martinez 1:09:24
My Twitter is taste of Adrian

Alex Ferrari 1:09:28
Brilliant name by the way. I love that and it's great.

Adrian Martinez 1:09:32
Also Instagram as taste of Adrian and then I'm on Facebook. Well, you know, friend me, I'm there. And yeah, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:43
And then did you have a website?

Adrian Martinez 1:09:46
AdrianMartinez.net and do you have a YouTube at all or no? No, but now that you mentioned that I think I'll make one.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:55
I'm glad I could help sir. Adrian man, thank you so much for taking the time man. This has been an eye Opening interview man, it's been wonderful. Hope you enjoyed it.

Adrian Martinez 1:10:02
Thank you, Alex and don't take another around five years to talk to me.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:07
Okay. As I told you, it was a very entertaining and informative interview guys. Adrian really answered that question the best I've ever heard anyone asked what is the longest thing? What's the lesson that took you the longest to learn? And that is your enough. And that is something that I want to say to you guys is your enough. You guys are enough to do whatever you're trying to do be you do you because that is the secret to your success. If you're honest with who you are as an artist, whether you're an actor, director, writer, whoever. Those are the people who make it. Those are the people who make a living, doing what they love to do. So if that's a lesson that we can learn from Adrian, I really it was well worth having him on the show. And just so you guys know that Adrian is making his directorial debut with his new movie, I creep. And you can check out more information about AI creep at his website at Adrian martinez.net. I like to thank again Adrian for taking the time out to be on the show and good luck to you new movie Adrian, all the indie film hustle tribe is rooting for you, man. Thanks again. Now an update on this is Meg. We are going we are working on our crowdfunding video. Right now we're getting everything ready for the campaign. We're looking to launch in mid June either the 14th or the 21st of June to launch and we'll be running for 30 days, I will let you guys know what's going on and give you all the skinny of what I'm learning. Because I'm working really closely with seed and spark calm. And they're giving me all the ins and outs of what makes a good campaign. And when it doesn't, I've never crowdfunded before, really. So this is an experience for me. And I want to share that experience with you guys. So you guys really understand what it takes to get this get a movie like this made this kind of micro budget movie. So I'll keep giving you updates to what's going on with Meg and again, if you want to sign on for any of this stuff I talked about earlier in the episode, you could just go to the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com/077 thanks again for all the support guys. As always, head over to filmmaking podcast.com and leave us an honest review of the show. It helps us out tremendously guys, and if you want to be part of the indie film hustle community, head over to indiefilmhustle.com/facebook to sign up for our private Facebook group where all of us indie film, hustlers talk, post about each other's works, ask questions Connect. It's a really cool community and we're getting close to 5000 members of that group so definitely check that out indiefilmhustle.com/facebook. As always, keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive, and I'll talk to you soon.

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IFH 076: How to Blaze Your Own Path in the Film Industry

Have you been banging your head against the wall trying to figure out what you need to do to break into the film industry? Me too. This episode is dedicated to all the indie filmmakers out there trying to make a living as a filmmaker.

After studying so many success stories of directors, writers, producers, and actors who finally broke through and made it into the exclusive party I found one common denominator among every single one of them.

I discuss that truth and make a major announcement to the Indie Film Hustle Tribe about what I’ll be doing over the next year and how it applies to the topic of “Blazing Your Own Path in the Film Industry.”

THIS IS MEG, Jill Michele-Meleán, Indie Film Hustle, Seed and Spark, Crowdfunding, Micro budget film, director alex Ferrari, alex Ferrari

If your a bit lost or just keep running into walls trying to make it as a filmmaker then this is the podcast you need to listen to. I hope you find some value in it. Good luck!

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:00
Well my indie film hustlers This is a special episode. It's an episode I've been wanting to talk about for quite some time, and I'm going to be brutally honest. In this episode, I've probably more honest than I've ever been, in any of my podcasts, hard to believe I know, because I'm fairly honest with all my podcasts, but I'm a guy who's been in this business for over 20 years now. And my dream has always been to direct a feature film, to direct feature films to make a living, directing feature films. Now I do direct commercials, I do direct music videos. And you know, I do my post production through numb robot and all that good stuff. And I'm always around the business. And obviously, I do a lot with indie film hustle, now to help you guys out. But you know, at the end of the day, what got me up in the morning. And what gets me up in the morning is the dream of shooting a feature film, and, and making expressing myself as an artist, especially expressing myself as a director. And I've been chasing that specific dream for over 20 years. And since ever since I was 18 years old, or actually 17 or 16, something like that. And I looked around my my room and I had over 3000 VHS tapes on it. And I said you know what, I'm going to be a director. And from that moment on, I've been chasing the dream of directing feature films ever since. And the technology has changed over time, attitudes have changed. You know, a lot of different things have changed from the moment that I started that dream to now. And I know that I'm not the only one everybody listening to this podcast, I would imagine have the same dream, they want to direct they want to express themselves as an artist. And it's so hard to find the path to take to get to that dream because it's not like a doctor. It's not like a lawyer that you go you do the court you like hey, if you want if I know right now that if there was a school somewhere that said, Hey, if you pay us X amount of dollars, you're going to be in school for seven years, you're going to learn from the Masters, when you get out, you're guaranteed a job making this kind of movie or this kind of TV show or you're going to do it and you're guaranteed right off the bat like a doctor is you know, you go through residency and so there is nothing like that for our business. And because of that everyone's always lost trying to figure out which path to go. And the biggest trap that I fell into is that you need this certain camera to shoot your movie or this actor. If this thing isn't in place, I can't move my I can't move forward. Or if I don't have this kind of distribution, or if I don't have this kind of budget. I can't make a movie. It's all absolute bullshit. You have the power right now to go and tell your story. Go and make your movie. And you should have no one tell you that there are rules in this game in this filmmaking journey. There are no rules you've got to do it yourself. And that was the biggest false hood I fell into and only within the last year that I start figuring it out doing indie film hustle that it is BS. It is bullshit and I don't want anyone listening to this podcast to fall for this trap? And then you study all of these people who've made it so I've studied everybody I mean, I've really gone after every kind of model I've gone after creating the short film The big visual effects short film to get attention to see if I get a feature made down that path. I went another short film to which had a script ready that had a full business plan ready to make that movie didn't go well. Didn't go didn't go through. And I know I'm not alone. I know all you guys have. I mean, there's 1000 stories in the Naked City, as they say about filmmakers, you know, being attached to projects and so on. And I've been I'm no different than any of you guys in that sense. But, you know, I've studied so many different roads and so many different paths, other filmmakers like you know, at first I was studying Spielberg's path and you know, and Scorsese's path and Coppola's path, and, you know, the you start figuring out that, you know, then came the next generation, which would be the Robert Rodriguez, the Kevin Smith's the Spike Lee's, the, the Rick, Rick, Richard Linklater, all these guys, and you're like, what did they do? How did they get in, and boom, boom, boom, and you just start trying to figure out the game. And unfortunately, for me, I got caught up in that for many years, if not decades, at this point in the game, trying to figure out what the game is, what's the end, what's the secret sauce, to get into open that door to get funding for your movie, or just to be able to get your dream up on the screen for you to be able to do what you want to do in life. And that was the mistake I made, I kept following all these people, you know, very closely studying their techniques, what they did, not as much their filmmaking techniques, but more their path and the business trying to break in. You know, and, and a lot of times I got stuck on you know, that the Robert Rodriguez story, the mythological Robert Rodriguez story, they made a $7,000 action movie, you know, and got, you know, got an agent, and he went on to do studio movies, and now he is who he is. But that story's from 1992. You know, that doesn't exist now. Steven Spielberg story is from the 70s, it doesn't exist now. You know, Tarantino story is from the 90s, it doesn't exist. Now. Same thing with Kevin Smith, like, you know, these guys coming up now would be it'd be different. Technology has changed, attitudes have changed, everything changed, the landscape is changing, changing almost daily, in regards to how people are making an end in the business. So again, my, my dream has always been to DirectX. So I decided to, instead of looking at other people's paths, I finally this year decided to start looking at my own and start creating my own and of course, take little bits of information from other people. But stop waiting for other people to give me permission to make a movie. And I decided to make my own movie, and blaze my own path, the path that is distinct to me and my resources and my story and my abilities. And you know, because I'll never be Francis Ford Coppola, who's going to UCLA film school, when film schools are just starting out, and barely any competition out there, and he shows up, and he starts directing studio movies, because that was the way it was not that he's obviously one of the greatest directors of all time. But that's his story. That's how he got in, you know, James Cameron story and so many other people's stories, you know, they all have their path, they all have their way, you know, I mean, James Cameron made a little short film that a bunch of dentist financed back in the day, I'm gonna put that up later on, on the blog, I have a whole post on that, that short film, but like, That's his path. That's the journey that he went on, and to stop trying to simulate other people's journey and start creating my own. And unfortunately, it's taken me a long time to learn that lesson. If you get one thing from this podcast, it's that you need to blaze your own trail. Be yourself, don't try. And that's where I think so many of us fail. As filmmakers, we keep trying to be other people. We try to be other artists, we try to go down other paths and don't get me wrong, some of those paths are are doable, you can do it and work. But I feel at least in in my soul that if you blaze your own path and do you, you have much more success than if you try to be somebody else, or go down a path that somebody else has already blazed. Because that might just be well worn and there's a gluttony of people on that path. The path that I'm gonna take is go alone, nobody's on that path. Now, that might be a scary thing that might be ignorant and dumb thing for me to do. But at least I feel that that is the right thing for me to do as an artist. And I suggest that all of you do something similar. Just do what you can blaze your path on what you want to do and how you want to do it. Now take from other people's past like a hopefully you guys are going to go on this journey with me. And you're going to see how I do it. And maybe that will inspire you to do something on your own on the way you can do it within the resources and the abilities that you have at the place you are in time right now in your careers in your journey. One of the stories that I heard and I and by the way, I learned this story specifically because I was providing service to you guys, I do a tremendous amount of research, and look for stories, ideas, inspirations for all of you to move forward in your career. And while I was doing this research, I found this amazing film, and story about how he made this film from one of our former guests on the show Michael Polish with his movie for lovers only where he went. And if you haven't heard that episode, it's Episode 69 go to indie film hustle.com for slash zero 69. It's an amazing one of the best interviews I've ever done on the on the podcast, really, really wonderful stuff. But that story of how he was able to just take his DSLR go and shoot a movie with no money and release the movie. And again, he had access to a wonderful actress. He had relationships that he had, he had gear that he brought on, which was his DSLR, he had, you know, he had these really these resources at his disposal to make his movie. And that's all you can do. Now, whether you're Josh Wheaton, who made his little indie film called Much Ado About Nothing based on Shakespeare's play, he took what resources he had, which were, you know, more substantial than many of us, he has relationships with a ton of amazing actors. So he brought all of those actors in, they worked for barely anything, and he shouted out his house, you know, so to a certain extent, he's doing what we would do, but he's using what he has at his disposal, and you can't hate the man or hate anybody for doing what they have, you know, using the resources he has, it's your responsibility. As a director, as a filmmaker, as an artist to use the resources, knowledge and experience, you have to tell your story. And that's what both Michael and and Joss really kind of inspired me to do with the project that I am currently working on now. And the announcement that I wanted to talk about a little bit is the movie I'm going to make I'm gonna make a movie called This is Meg. It is a comedy drama. And it stars Julie Michelle milyon, who is a stand up comic who was on mad TV, Reno, 911, and a million other things that she's been on. And she's a really dear friend of mine and an insane talent, a talent that has not been allowed to shine, Julie not allowed to shine yet, not to her full extent. And that is what I wanted to do with this movie. We are putting together an insane cast of amazing actors. And we're going to make a movie, I'm going to shoot it myself. We're going to shoot it on the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, we're going to go through the entire process of this micro budget. And when I say micro, I'm talking about micro budget film. And you know, after after looking at the technology the way it is today, and what it really takes to make a movie and the resources I have at my disposal. I was like you know what, I can go make a movie. And wouldn't it be awesome if I can make this movie and take the tribe along with me to see the entire process of how I make this movie. warts and all, you know, ups and downs, so on so forth. And I'm like I would kill for that. Like I would kill to watch another filmmaker. Go through the entire process like literally and ask questions, not just look at it in a voyeuristic way. Set up a place where you can ask questions, see how it pertains to your own projects, and see if the path that I create is a path that can help other filmmakers succeed which is again, what I wanted to do with indie film hustle, I wanted to help other filmmakers succeed in what they're trying to do. And I'm sorry I'm getting a little choked up about this because I'm really passionate about what I am doing with not only this project but with helping you guys you know, I really miss I really want to help and I really want other people to get to the place that they want to be. As a filmmaker as an artist, you know, I I could have focused on a million other topics but the topic that I was put on this earth to talk about was film by filmmaking. And that's what I love. And other people are business other people are, you know, marketing other people or a million other things. But for me, my my core, my group of people that I want to help is storytellers are filmmakers are people who want to get their stories out there and succeed and survive and thrive, as I say, in the business and make a living doing this. So I wanted to create a project. And not only one, but multiple, but this is our first and show people that you can go out and make a movie and sell a movie and make money with a movie and crowdfund to get a budget for the movie. And go out there and be an artist and hopefully make money doing it and serve and sustaining yourself as an artist, and going out and doing it and and there's other people who've done this many ways, many different roads to the same path, whether it's being hired by a studio to do you know, the next Marvel movie, or just a working filmmaker who makes a good living making his indie films or her indie films, and, and just going about their daily business of being an artist and a filmmaker. And, you know, look, I know a lot of you have gone down this path of looking at other filmmakers and seeing how they do and oh my gosh, you should, you should learn from everybody else, see what other people are doing and go down that path. You know how many people have probably picked up an iPhone and said, I'm gonna go make a movie on my iPhone, because they saw Shaun Baker do it. And when Sundance with it with tangerine, you know, that's great. But is that going to be your specific path? I don't know. Maybe it's doing something else. Maybe it's doing a web series, that maybe it's doing a you know, a short, or maybe it's doing a feature or whatever that is, but all these paths that you're studying, all these people that you're studying that are ahead of you are not ahead of you, but are at a different place in their journey. That on the filmmaking journey, they inspire you know how many filmmaking careers were inspired by Kurosawa john Ford, Steven Spielberg, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola, Stanley Kubrick, Warner, Hertzog you know, and and all of these amazing directors, you know, Robert Rodriguez, can you my generation, a lot of people, I know directors that are working in the business, I know that Robert Rodriguez, Quentin Tarantino, Kevin Smith, Spike Lee, all those directors, all those guys inspire generations, they might have not gone down the same exact path as those directors, but inspire them to go on their own path, or take a little bit from each of their story and, and blaze their own path. And that's what we're here to do. And that's what you should be doing blazing your own path, not only as a filmmaker on the business side, but as an artist, and in listening to your voice. Because we don't want another Stanley Kubrick, we don't want another Steven Spielberg, we want you, we want you as a filmmaker, to express your point of view, and whatever kind of story that is, whether that be a slasher horror movie, an action thriller, a comic book, film, a documentary, a comedy or drama, whatever. But it has to be your perspective has to be who you are your as they say, your stank. Your, your secret sauce, you have to have your stank all over it. And I mean that in the most positive way possible. Because when you see a Stanley Kubrick movie, you see his stank everywhere what you see is Spielberg or Scorsese movie, you see his think everywhere. And that's your job as an artist, as a Picasso as a da Vinci, you have to put your secret sauce in whatever you do. So with all of this said, guys, I hope that you go on the journey with me, it's going to be going on over the next year. But it's going to come really quickly. We are going to start crowdfunding for this in about three weeks, give or take, we're going to be crowdfunding through seed and spark.com. So you can see the entire process of what I go through with seed and spark how I do it, how they do their thing. A lot of people ask why aren't you using Kickstarter, Indiegogo? I love seed and spark. I love what Emily best and their entire team does for filmmakers. And I want to only support them, but only on a selfish standpoint, they have a 78% success rate, which is almost double what Kickstarter and Indiegogo are. So we're going to be going after raising $15,000 for part of the production of the film. And we're going to see what we can get where you're going to see a full crowdfunding campaign on how I do it, how we do the pitch video how we do the the whole layout of the of the pitch page how we run campaign for the 30 days that we're going to run it, what kind of things are we going to be doing the incentives, the whole ball of wax. I am working right now with seed and spark to create a series, a crowdfunding podcast series to give even more detail and more in depth stuff about the process. Because I think crowdfunding is such a powerful thing. But there's so much noise, like in every aspect of our business right now that you have to be really strategic and really good at what you're doing to even cut through. So I'm hoping that what we do will be successful, and you'll be able to see if we were successful, or if we were not successful. And you'll see what we did right, and you'll see what we did wrong. But that's part of the journey. Now. And also to help us make this movie, I'm creating the full access membership site on indie film hustle, where you will have for a monthly fee, we're going to do a three month fee of six months, a year long fee, which allows you to come in and be part of a very exclusive community inside of indie film hustle. Now this community, you will have access to a ton of tutorial videos, over 10 to 15 hours worth of tutorial videos on filmmaking from our courses from filmmaking hacks, social media courses, like Twitter hacks, all and see different courses from the film festival hacks and other places like that. So you can see a ton of content there all the time. And I'll be adding content to there all the time, I have courses coming up that I'm working on to add more value to the full access site. And in there, you will have access to me as well as to Google Hangout we're going to be trying to do twice a month during the process of making this as Meg. And that whole process, you'll be able to see where we're going ask questions, we kind of all get together, ask questions and talk about the process and how it applies to your movie. So you're basically getting almost consulting on your movie through this process. It's really really, I mean, I would have killed for something like this, I would kill for now just to see how somebody else has gone through this path. And in today's world in like right now 2016 world. But the wonderful thing about full access is that it's going to continue to grow throughout the years. So as I continue to do movies, I'm going to continue to add content and content and content to this where it becomes an amazing resource for people. And any of the money that goes into this will go into helping us make this movie. So we will have those as part of the incentives of our crowdfunding campaign. So you'll get super crazy deals. If you join us with a contribution on our crowdfunding campaign you will have different accesses to and special things to full access as well. So I hope you guys are excited about this. If you want to be part of the full access membership site, you can always go to indie film, hustle comm forward slash full access, and you can sign up to be notified when it goes live, it hopefully will be going live in the next four to six weeks, I'm going to be creating content and getting everything up there which is going to take time, and I want to make sure I launch it properly. Make sure you guys have plenty of good stuff in there. when it launches. It's gonna be super crazy, super valuable, man, I really hope you guys get a lot out of it. Now if you guys want to be part of the launch team for our crowdfunding campaign, and run with us through this entire crowdfunding campaign, you'll learn everything that we do and how we're doing it, you'll have access to us, and be able to talk to us ask questions about the pet campaign. And as part of being a launch team, basically, all you're going to be doing is, you know, when we need you to help tweet something out or talk to your specific audience or groups, get the word out on the campaign, how to do it with tools that we're going to give you all this kind of cool stuff and just really be our ambassadors really help get the word out on the project in a really cool way, and adding value to everybody you talk to. So if you want to be part of that launch team, head over to indie film, hustle, calm, forward slash launch team, that's indie film, hustle calm for slash launch team. And it'll take you to a private Facebook group that we have set up just for this launch team. So thank you so much. I really hope to have you guys on that journey with me. So again, if you want more information about full access indie film, hustle, head over to indie film hustle comm forward slash full access. And if you want to be part of the launch team for my new film, this is mag, head over to indie film hustle.com forward slash launch team. I really hope that this process inspires as many of you as possible to go out and do what you want to do, and follow your dreams. Be that storyteller be that filmmaker, tell us Doors you want to tell and and make a living doing it, which is very, very important as an artist. So I hope this this process inspires you. And to be honest, you know, it would be a scary proposition to be doing this alone, but I know I'm not alone. I've got the indie film hustle tribe here with me on this project and moving forward and I'm there for them and for you guys, at all times as much as I can give you I can give you and anything I find out I'm going to pass along to you guys any secrets I learned along the way. You know me, I always put them out. So, guys, please, as always, keep that hustle going. Keep your dream alive. And I'll talk to you very soon.

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IFH 075: What Does It Really Take to Make in Hollywood with Sebastian Twardosz

Every once in awhile we all need to get a gut check. A “gut check” is when some new situation, or in this case knowledge, that tests your belief on what it takes to achieve your goal.

I invited Sebastian Twardosz to give us that gut check and lay down some major knowledge bombs on the Indie Film Hustle Tribe. Now Sebastian has been playing the Hollywood game for close to two decades and has racked up some major experience. Hollywood and the film business, in general, is a “relationship business“. Here’s what Sebastian said:

“Some of you will be successful and some of you will be less successful—it’s a numbers game, but regardless of the stats, you will likely fail if you don’t help each other.”

Sebastian Twardosz’s first production job was from 1995-1999 for Tom Cruise and Paula Wagner’s Paramount-based company where he started as an assistant and was promoted to an executive, actively participating in the making of Mission Impossible 1-2 and Without Limits.

Like many hopefuls wanting to get into the film biz, Sebastian Twardosz started as an agent’s assistant in the motion picture department at ICM. He graduated from the USC School of Cinematic Arts in 1993. His short film, Silent Rain, received a Student Academy Award from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences as well as the Student Emmy.

Sebastian co-produced the independent feature Small Town Saturday Night starring Chris Pine, and he has been an adjunct professor at both UCLA and USC Film Schools teaching about the art and business of film since 2006.

He also hosted a weekly show called The Insiders which aims to shed light on the “behind-the-scenes world of Hollywood” for aspiring filmmakers. Sebastian is currently a partner in Circus Road Films, which advises and represents emerging filmmakers. Take a listen to this eye-opening interview.

Right-click here to download the MP3

Alex Ferrari 0:30
I like to welcome to the show Sebastian Twardosz. I hope I didn't massacre that last name too much, Sebastian.

Sebastian Twardosz 3:51
It was it was perfect. Actually.

Alex Ferrari 3:54
No problem, man. Thanks for having me having. Thanks for having me on the show. I think I'm glad to have you on the show, man. Thanks for doing the show. I really appreciate it. We, Sebastian I met under interesting circumstances.

Sebastian Twardosz 4:07
Meet all my good friends.

Alex Ferrari 4:09
So I wrote many, many I think at the very almost at the beginning of the film, also I wrote this article about producers reps, and I have my bad experience with one in particular. And and Sebastian is a producer's rep now. He's done many things in the business and we're going to talk all about the stuff he's done in the business but Sebastian actually contacted me and said, Hey, man, you know, we're not all bad. I'm like, I know and then we just started talking I'm like, you know, and I got his perspective on what a real producers rep does a reputable one and what you know what the actual inside of that world is, as opposed to just my horrible experience. But so we're gonna talk a little bit about that and talk a bit about a bunch of the other stuff that Sebastian does. So Sebastian, you did a show on Youtube called the insiders which I have now become addicted to why Because you've got some amazing guests that come on, and you really kind of, you're similar to me in the sense that you kind of you're a straight shooter, you don't Bs, you don't kind of dance around it, you're like, this is what it takes, guys. This is what it really takes and to make it in the business and boom, boom, boom, you ask these kind of questions. So can you talk a little bit about the insiders? tell everybody about it.

Sebastian Twardosz 5:22
Right. Okay. Well, thank you, first of all, for having me on. That's very nice of you to say nice things. So yeah, well, you know, because I do a lot of different things. I mean, I also I teach at USC, I teach another place called National University. I am a producer's rep and you know, I just kind of my you know, I just believe in paying it forward and I try to be helpful to people that's these are really just avenues of being helpful. So the insiders Believe it or not, what's interesting, it goes right back to producer wrapping. If you look us up on IMDB, my co producer on that and director of all the episodes is Kevin hamadani. And we actually represented Kevin's film that's how I met Kevin. He made it true. So this is it all. It's kind of like what you do Alex, you have you do a lot of different things, but they all kind of you know, they're synergistic as they say. Yes, so I met Kevin we represented a film of his it's not the best Title I hate the title, but it's a very good movie. It's called junk. j u n. k.

Alex Ferrari 6:22
It's a rough that's a rough movie to sell.

Sebastian Twardosz 6:24
It's a rough movie just the titles that help us sell this movie but we did we did do a good job in selling them when Kevin was actually very happy hence he did a show with me that goes back to the beginning there are some good rubber good producer reps out there. But anyway so what what his story was if you look up Kevin that movie junk was in a lot of film festivals actually did really well on the festival circuit and he wanted to you know sell it and you know, we we got involved with them and we helped him get his distributor made the deal, etc. And he was very happy with that. And then it was probably about you know, Kevin has gone on to do even additional films and shorts and he's been like in Seattle Film Festival in Austin and Los Angeles from festival etc and other things. He's He's very good you can and watch junk. Oh, I should tell you but the movie is about kind of a burned out filmmaker who goes through the festival circuit.

Alex Ferrari 7:26
I got it. I got actually watched that now.

Sebastian Twardosz 7:28
Yeah, who goes through the whole thing of festivals and also, it's got a fantastic cameo in it. If you if you love movies in the 1980s this as one of the best cameos ever. Great movie, and it's about this filmmakers journey of making his movie, an independent film going through the festival circuit and then getting released. It's literally what we're talking about. Okay, it's a fantastic movie. Really. Okay. Anyway, um, so it's called junk and just just put it everywhere.

Alex Ferrari 7:58
I'll put it I'll put it in the show notes.

Sebastian Twardosz 8:03
Okay. So anyway, so that went that went well. And it was about two years after that. Maybe he he started directing for this YouTube network, YouTube channel called lip TV. And there's some other great shows on there. One of the best shows ever about interview about documentaries. It's called BYOD bring bring your own doc is fantastic. So if you love documentaries, you just go to YouTube and do BYOD anyway, Kevin was directing a lot of these he directed quite a few of the various shows and he asked me if I wanted to do one. Um, and I think he got the idea because I also teach at USC. So here's how this comes full circle because I asked him to be a guest on one of my classes. And we had a great time. Again, no BS, you know, we swear we do all kinds of great stuff in my class, and he had a rockin good time. And so he thought, well, maybe we could put this on the air. Now granted, we can't be quite as loose as we are, you know, setting Sure. He had the idea of doing the show. And I said yes. And the reason I said yes was because of my background, I you know, I know a lot of people like almost everybody on that show. Not everyone, but almost everyone I know, you know, personally or have worked with in some capacity. And I just knew all these people. And a lot of them I was invited to my class. So like, if you go if you Google my name Sebastian toward Oz, and USC, my class pops up and you see all this great list of guest speakers and are saying to myself, you know, this is really cool that I could bring him into class and teach everyone you know, because there's my classes, like two hours of me talking and then two hours of the guest speaker q&a. And so I said, You know, I really wish more people could hear what some what these guys have to say. And so the idea was to just get and I knew a lot of these guests because I've done classes with them. I've had a good rapport with them. So you know, Kevin gave me the opportunity and he said, look, I think I can get you the show on The lip TV and and so I went in to meet with the guys who who run it. This one guy Michael Lustig is the kind of creator, the executive producer of all of it. And they said, Yeah, let's give it a shot. So I did it, we ended up doing 42 episodes, we had to take a break. Because I have a lot going on. There's two reasons we took a break. I also want to do a different version of it, ultimately, but the whole idea of the show was to kind of, you know, really dissect industry. And for people who really want to know, like, how things work, or how people made it. My biggest question for everyone was always like, their origin story, and how did they? Yeah, they make it? Yeah, how did they get in. And then we kind of get into the weeds a little bit with some of them. But but it's not meant to be Entertainment Tonight, the show's really meant for people who want to, you know, make it in Hollywood, kind of, like, you know, like my students at USC, or national universities and other place or, I used to teach at UCLA to actually and, and just to kind of, you know, have other people experience and get to know you know, how it's done. That's it, that was the whole impetus for the show.

Alex Ferrari 11:10
It's a great show and anybody who's interested in getting it, you know, amazing access to some amazing guests and it's awesome. It's really really awesome.

Sebastian Twardosz 11:18
Well, some of the episodes are very good, some are a little slow. So you know, I didn't we didn't really have that much time was a little bit thrown together. I wish when we do a 2.0 version of it, which I hope to do. There I have a lot of ideas for making it better, but but it's it's it's pretty good. I'm pretty I'm happy with it.

Alex Ferrari 11:33
So can you talk a little bit from your perspective, what does a producer rep do?

Sebastian Twardosz 11:38
Okay, well, there are different kinds of producer reps. Ultimately, their job is to help you get distribution to like find you a distribution deal. And then to negotiate the basic terms of that, that that's the ultimate job and that's what most producer reps do. We we do more than that, but that's the basics and you say we who is we? Well, my partner Glenn Reynolds and I and then we have a couple of people that work with us we're also partners Alex nollie and Josh Holman you know we have varied backgrounds you know like Glenn produced conversations with other women he stopped you know he started like a really successful foreign sales company you know with the law school University of Texas produced other movies also and has you know just been working in business for a while Alex No, he used to be with film independent and has been with various you know, programmer various festivals Also producer I mean if you just look at the background for us, we are we are doing well Josh Holman by the way is really cool. I think it was two summers ago he won the Austin Film Festival for writing comedy spec oh nice he wrote you know, so we're all in the business to various ways and really what we're doing is you know, you make various relationships as you kind of go through and it just turned out that we knew a lot of people who could help in terms of distribution but like I said we do more like we do a lot of festival consulting which is a big aspect of it and then we actually do the the the deals to actual contracts

Alex Ferrari 13:16
Now you say we again but your name you haven't mentioned the name of your company wants to just want to make sure you get it out

Sebastian Twardosz 13:22
Sorry I'm sorry. Circus Road Films.

Alex Ferrari 13:26
Okay. No worries now Now you know the situation that I was in and the reason why we spoke heavily about that and the negative connotation is that the person has that has since been ousted from the business are there still in your experience producer reps out there who are doing that kind of negative you know, you know we talked a little bit about upfront payments and things of that we'll talk about what what producers reps generally get charged you know charge and things like that but you know the abuse that this person's and if you want to say her name I have no problem

Sebastian Twardosz 14:00
I'm gonna say that I think that's appropriate but I mean when you know when I read the article that you posted I knew exactly who you're talking about like instantly and anybody who in this part of the business because it's a very small part of the business this particular niche of it you know, anyone would know right away you somehow found your way to the worst very bad actor they say like like really probably the worst which is unfortunate and although you did get a deal at the end, which is you know, better than not getting any deal at all

Alex Ferrari 14:35
Some somewhere I still lost money but it was it was a little surreal. Yeah,

Sebastian Twardosz 14:38
Well, um so you know, that it's just unfortunate but are there other people like that there's no one that I'm aware of that it's at that level. Honestly, it's just, you know, because that particular person had various filings against them in the Better Business Bureau, all kinds of stuff. I have never seen that with anyone else. I you just happen to fall into the worst There are some other people who I'm sort of concerned with, because I know the appropriate, appropriate way to do this in the not appropriate way. Let me just say this, um, you know, because upfront fees in this part of the business are actually normal. But here's the thing, you know, it's hard, it might be hard to tell from the filmmakers side of it, I suppose. But, you know, like, we don't represent movies, if one we don't like them, or two, we don't think we can get them a deal, we just will pass, because there is the internet and there is, you know, our reputations. And like, for us, like, I've represented other students at USC, or I've represented, you know, some of my other professors, they're actually my boss, you know, and, you know, so much that that must be very interesting. Was it was what wasn't my direct boss, but she's definitely my superior. there at the school, because she's the head of the producing track. But you know, and we did the fee and everything, but you know, we come through for our clients. And you know, it, I suppose the differences, you know, do you just take money just to take the money? Or do you take it because you really want to be helpful, and you think you can be helpful? And that's kind of it for me, I'll, you know, if I think I can be helpful, then yeah, I'll do it. But if I, you know, cuz some movies are, you know, you just can't, there's just nothing we can do. So, you know, you just have to walk away, right? Also, there's some filmmakers, it's just, you know, my life might be too short. Walk away. I know the feeling again, but with you want, it was very unfortunate, you just happen to fall into the wrong hands. And, you know, I don't know what to say, I don't think most people are like that. There are some people I'm a little bit concerned with. It's true. Because you know, anybody can be a producer's Rep. So really, it's about just doing a lot of research. And I know, in your case, you said you even had a recommendation or referral. Oh, yeah. Which is even makes it even tougher.

Alex Ferrari 17:07
It was it was it was from a very major organization that I was a part of, and she and that producers rep came and spoke and was represented, you know, recommended by the head of the organization, everything. So that was a lot of due diligence right there. Because I trusted, the organization has nothing to do with the organizations that happen to be a bad situation. But

Sebastian Twardosz 17:25
I just don't know what to say to that. Because, you know, I just don't know what to say, because you do have to do the due diligence. You know,

Alex Ferrari 17:34
It was really it's okay. I mean, it's really early on in my career, I was I was literally in diapers almost, in the sense of the business. And she saw me coming from a mile away. And that was what happened and life goes on. But so with that said, What do producers reps generally charge as a general statement for, you know, representing a representation of an indie film?

Sebastian Twardosz 17:55
Well, what they charge depends on what they do, okay. And they charge at different points. So we'll start from various places, you can get a producer rep for just 10%. But you know, there's, there's two kinds of reps that will work in that, that zone. One is, you know, the major agencies. And, you know, they're really working with movies that you know, are pure Sundance movies that have, you know, very recognizable names. And then if not stars, just kind of moonlighting in indie films, you know, it's very hard for, for what I call a true independent to get that kind of representation. It's possible, but it's, it's very hard. And then there, there are the other reps who just do it a 10%. But what happens is, if they can't, you know, sell your movie in a month, or you know, if you don't get into a major festival, like Sundance Tribeca, Toronto, or South by Southwest, they'll just drop you and they might do it amicably. But really, it's for most, nine out of 10 independent movies, the 10% reps are really truly not interested or disinterested. You know, I even have a story of one film that we represent that we did a good job on. They had signed with a just a pure 10 percenter. And as soon as they signed, that person never called or emailed them back again. It was just purely the art of closing the deal. And they had to let that contract run Now fortunately, because I was also trying to sign that film. It's a very good film, small film but very good as Australia saying, but they said, Well, we just don't want to pay any upfront fee. I said, Okay, well, but the things change, let me know. And I said to him, I said, Look, at the very least, just sign three months. I said no more. I said because look, if they can't get it done in three months, they're not. They're not ever going to do it. And that's a good thing. They were able to get their claws down to three months so that three months later they contact me You said Look, I walked away because they live They told me you guys never call us back and so we took on the film and in less than two months we had a deal and they were really happy and on and on. So okay so that's the temper centers and mind you that's really good if you have the right kind of film the right kind of film basically means you have to be in the Big Four festivals or it's got to have like some extremely marketable element to it. But but this is the smallest minority of indie films it truly is. Then they're the ones that charge fees tip like us which we do typically the the reps that charge fees will also do your contracts and we do that so um, some will charge you upfront and I'll talk about how much in a second and some will charge you when they sign a deal. Like as soon as you sign a deal and it could vary I've basically the magic number seems to fall between five and 10,000 it really does vary also depending on you know, there's there's so many factors that go into it so but that number seems to fall between five and 10 which is where we are and then you know for us we do another thing though, so that's most reps most reps it's really just about making the deal finding a distribution and like which I said is the main thing but with us we do more like one of the main things that I do is festival consulting and I do a lot of festival consultant that you can just hire a film festival consultant separately and that could run you 500 to 1000 a month right? It really can't and so what we do is we do festival consulting we do the distribution submissions and then we do the contracts all three wrapped into our fee and I think we are well worth it yeah I kind of use like my class as an example like to get me in my class at USC you could just look this up my class there cost $6,500 which is a lot of money but mind you this class is a really good class so if you watch any of the insiders episodes, it is way better than even that because you're just getting a small taste of it not getting the real the kind of stuff you can say off screen you know all the stuff before that that you can that we talked about so you know you have to put it in the context for what you're getting what the person's actually doing, and what they can charge for because look we don't have to help you get into a festival The reason we do it we I'll tell you why we do we do it for a couple reasons one, it can help to sell your film if you get into the right festival 2 it's good for you and your career it will help you advance your career and really if you look at me specifically I mean I'm teaching Believe me I'm not teaching for the money you know I make more money doing you know circus road or doing other things that I do that I do teaching I do teaching because I really am trying to pay for night I love this business and I want to make it easier for people than it was for me basically that's kind of the same here what that's basically what it did my whole thing is like remembering like what it was like for me when I was 18 and I got out here I mean even the class the class that I teach at USC is actually the class I wish I had and then I eat it when I when I was at USC but I didn't have or they didn't have it there so there's really the impetus for all of it so yeah so anyway so so that's kind of how the fee stuff works it just depends what you get if they're doing your contracts are always going to charge the reason is because you're going to have to hire a lawyer no matter what you shoot you're gonna have to hire one I suppose you could do want to do it on your own but it wouldn't be I wouldn't advisable to do it yeah, so you're gonna pay one way or another and what we're doing is we have all that in house as opposed to just be being a you know, a pure rep without doing the contracts because the temper centers typically will have to match you up pair you up with with a lawyer and by the way when you're paying that lawyer if they're referring a lawyer they're probably getting kind of a fee kickback You don't even know about course course that's the way the system is getting paid. You just don't know about it. So with us we just happened to be very upfront about it. Well here's what it is these are the actual costs of doing this. And you know then if you get into good festival and say the Austin was obviously the Big Four like you know, talked about, let's say you get into a smaller but great festival like Austin or tell you writers cinequest will tell you for sure, but but you know, we go off into those festivals we don't charge anymore to do to do any of that, you know, but we go and you know, our advices is rock solid on all sorts of things because we've kind of been there before. But you know, these things cost.

Alex Ferrari 24:49
Yeah, there's a cost involved with it. So well thank you for explaining that a little bit more and getting your perspective on what a real producer's rep does and let everybody understand what That situation is now in your in your past you have worked with a lot of people. But specifically you had the opportunity to work with a mega movie star as a producer, Mr. Tom Cruise. What was it like working with Tom Cruise on on the level that you were working with him on?

Sebastian Twardosz 25:19
Well, that was really kind of one of the best times of my life was so amazing. I'm a I'm actually a working class kid. You know, my parents were definitely I'm an immigrant. First of all, I was born in Poland. And my dad was a machinist. My mom was a hairstylist. You know, I went to USC, on scholarship, USC, film, school, those all scholarship and stuff, thank God. But you know, but but I come from a very working class kind of area of Detroit and, you know, working for Tom Cruise. credible, I'm sure, flying around in private jets, you know, dealing with CIA, and, you know, the chairman of CIA, you know, because agent was the CO chairman of CIA. Yeah, you know, his, his publicist was the number one publicist in the business. Pat, Kingsley, Mk. And, you know, we were, you know, it was at the height of his career, he was, when I was there, it was a mission, one mission to Jerry Maguire and Eyes Wide Shut the movie he produced, which was without limits, which is, I was on set for that. So, I mean, it was eye opening. You know, in hindsight, hindsight is always a good thing, I suppose, you know, but these companies, they're small, first of all, you know, so when you have a, you know, it's the same today as it was, then, when you have a movie star, you know, you're only talking about a company of, like, 10 or so people at as many as 15, if it's big, or as little, I suppose, is like six, but it's a round number of around 10 that work at these companies and, and it is very high pressure. Because, you know, at that time, he was for sure, the biggest movie star in the world. And there's a lot of demands, and you know, there's a lot of money to be made and the choices that you make are important, you know, because everybody wants you in their movie, and a lot of people will profit from whatever choices you make. So it was I would, I would describe it as extremely a very high pressure place for sure.

Alex Ferrari 27:23
Yeah, that sounds that sounds like you've made obviously a lot of contacts along the way being in that in those kind of situations.

Sebastian Twardosz 27:29
Yeah, because everyone's calling you know, so you know, studio heads. I mean, literally chairman of studios or chairwoman of studios you know, all the heads of all the major everybody wants you because your time and what was interesting to me is you know, I would read variety or nowadays you're reading deadline Hollywood, but you know, you read like so and so was cast in the eye like Matt Damon gets this film or, or Kevin Reynolds Kevin Costner? I'm sorry, Kevin Costner gets this film or what have you Tom Hanks gets this film. And the truth of the matter is that we had seen that script and it had been offered to Tom Cruise probably six months or more before it ever got offered to anybody else and it appeared in the traits he was he would see everything like so all these announcements with all these other you know very big movie stars. Will Smith What have you we you know, these are scripts we have seen six months nine months before it was ever announced that somebody else was in it

Alex Ferrari 28:29
So you were where you were working at the top of the mountain

Sebastian Twardosz 28:32
It what's funny is it didn't feel that way when you were there because there's always you know working at these companies there's always consent you know this concentric circles and you know obviously my boss who was Tom's partner, Paula Wagner she's in the center of it and we're you know, there's rings outside of that we were close to the center but you know but yes I mean we were you know we were a Paramount's I suppose we were at the top of the mountain but I guess literally Yeah, but it doesn't it really doesn't feel that way it's just a lot of work a lot of script reading a lot of production just a lot of You're so you're working so much that you just you lose sight of the outside world innocence you actually you actually lose sight of where you are in a way because you know you still have to do the actual work and you're not you know, I'm not that I wasn't his producing partner or anything you know, I'm not the head of the studio. You know, I'm working at this company and I guess I was one of the 10 or so people core people there for a long time but you can't you do you lose you lose sight just because you're you're buried in so much work.

Alex Ferrari 29:44
Now, what they did with Eyes Wide Shut, were you involved with Eyes Wide Shut at all.

Sebastian Twardosz 29:50
No, with Stanley Kubrick is always an exception. I think. We were We were we you know, we we were not in involved with that movie. No, that was all Stanley. It was Yeah, it was all set it was going on at the same time as, you know, mission one mission to Jerry Maguire. And without limits Those were all happening around the same time. But you know, Tom, you know, actors are busy, they can do more than one thing at Tom is also a producer, they could do more, you know, they do numerous movies every year. So that was while everything else was going on.

Alex Ferrari 30:24
But I heard that. But I also heard that Stanley basically locked up Tom for what, 18 months?

Sebastian Twardosz 30:31
Um, well, that's true. But Tom was still he is a producer, you know. So although Tom may have been, you know, acting in that movie, he's still reading scripts for his next movie, you're still reading scripts of writers he wants to hire to, you know, right Mission Impossible to Yeah, he's working. Well, we were in development a mission to while so it's not like, it's not like he was only doing that there. We were an active development on mission to while he was there, he was reading and meeting with, you know, writers and directors for mission too. So that was the that was obviously the big impetus because we didn't want to just come out. And also he was producing movie, he wasn't even in without limits. And believe me, believe me every single day. He was on the phone with Paul, we were on the south Paulo. I was on the phone with him every day, every single day back then. We faxed pages to him. Even small changes every page of a script that was changed in any way was sent to him. He was overnighted back then. Video while back I was videotapes we could do now was we're talking about 1995 Sure, sure. Sure. Internet was just a baby. Yeah, we were overnighting you know, all the dailies to them. I mean, this is and we're not talking like FedEx. We're talking like private couriers to get it right to Tom, you know, on a set where he was, you know, England, Eyes Wide Shut. Everything was overnighted to him. He was incredibly involved. So basically, maybe producing sorry, producing without limits may have kept him saying maybe while he was working with um, maybe that's what it was. I mean, I don't know. You know, exactly, but, but I'm sure that that probably was a good a good thing for him to be doing while Stanley was, you know, doing 200 takes because the shooting ratio is so high 200 takes of a scene.

Alex Ferrari 32:31
Oh, we could talk about Stanley for hours. I'm a huge Kubrick fan. And that's one of my favorite Kubrick movies. Believe it or not, I love Eyes Wide Shut.

Sebastian Twardosz 32:38
Oh, I have some stories. I could tell you that because I would hear stuff. Like mind blowing. But uh, but yeah, so I'm sure the production company side the development side of all the other things Tom was doing probably kept him sane while he was doing Eyes Wide Shut. Like I said we had nothing to do with that. Sure. Sure, sure. So you know, Stanley could do his thing. Tom was in it. And I think he was very happy to be in it. But Tom has, you know, a life outside of that. And that was all the other movies we were working on.

Alex Ferrari 33:04
Now. In another interview, I heard you discuss the two paths an indie filmmaker can take when making a film The making money path and the jumpstart your career path? Can you tell us a little bit more about both of those paths?

Sebastian Twardosz 33:17
Okay, yes, it's it's, you know, this isn't like set in stone. This isn't like lanes of the highway. But yes, there seem to be two paths that I've seen for indie films. So if all you want to do is just make money. There are certain kinds of films you make in there certain kinds of things you put into those movies, and they tend to be more genre movies, or action movies or horror movies or what have you. Or you can make a pure for instance, most people don't know this, but making a pure family film is probably the best thing you could do. Like, you know, you don't know, the franchise that no one ever talks about. The most probably one of the most successful franchises out there.

Alex Ferrari 34:00
Beethoven.

Sebastian Twardosz 34:02
No. But Close, air buds.

Alex Ferrari 34:06
Oh, God, I could imagine those air buds. Yes, they just keep going and go we can go

Sebastian Twardosz 34:11
Look who produced it originally. But if you look, it's Bob and Harvey Weinstein.

Alex Ferrari 34:16
Right! I suppose it was that was that? That was an amerimax thing that was

Sebastian Twardosz 34:21
Yes, it was a pretty or dimension or something. Yeah. Often Harvey Weinstein or the executive producers, because you know the secret in this industry. It's true. If you make like a dog movie or pure kids movie, it will make a lot of money. And so now there but movies are all owned by Disney, but that's because Disney bought Miramax Sure, sure they got it out from Miramax. But there's so many of those airborne movies anyway, if you make movies like that, it won't necessarily propel your career as a director. Because you're going to be looked at in a certain way, but you'll make a lot of money. The riskier bet is to try and propel your career as a director. And for that you pretty much have to make basically A major festival film Sundance Film south by Toronto, Tribeca. And those movies tend to be more dramas, they do have a midnight section. So you could get away with it. But they're kind of elevated movies in that sense. And they're much riskier, because making a drama. If you don't get one of the big four festivals will probably diamond financial disaster. So it's very tricky as to how to go about, about doing it. But those are the two paths. The other thing is, you know, what do people really look for in, in director clients, you know, so for writers, they're looking for your voice. And for a director, they're looking for your point of view. So they want to see, you know, how, how you direct, you know, scenes and actors and stuff. And that's the kind of stuff that goes to Sundance. So that's why you have you know, all these let me look at the Russo brothers, you know, that their first movie was actually at slam dance. Then they had a movie in Sundance, and then their careers took off. Same thing with Colin trevorrow. Sundance movie, and then, you know, Jurassic, right from a Sundance movie safety net County, which is a great little movie, by the way, it's just a little movie a character piece, not very proud. If it didn't go into Sundance, it probably wouldn't have been profitable at all.

Alex Ferrari 36:18
It didn't have any major stars, Mark duplass is the only I think, yeah.

Sebastian Twardosz 36:21
And then and then and, you know, and then he goes to Jurassic World, and this is normal. There are other examples of this. I mean, it goes way back, even, you know, Bryan Singer directed x men, you know, he did a movie called public access, which is a drama, really, it's kind of a mystery drama that went to Sundance and, and, and it was Sundance that gave him his break. So you know, you want to go for that, but it's very difficult. It's not very few movies get to go to Sundance. Um, so that's why it's a risky path. So that's why I say to people, you have to know what you want. When you start making a movie, or even Ryan Johnson, by the way, who did brick, this his first movie went to Sundance, and now he's directing Star Wars episode eight. And you know, I know kind of his whole story, his was kind of took longer to get to Star Wars, but Sundance makes a difference. So you have to know what you're doing from the onset. And what I tell people is, actually, and this goes kind of goes, goes back to producer reps again, by the way, you should not be making a feature film to make money.

Alex Ferrari 37:22
No, it's a worst worse idea.

Sebastian Twardosz 37:25
Right? And that's why this world of really good producer reps or consultants, or what have you, we all know this, and that's why we can we can charge a little bit also because we can give you the right advice. It's not about making, you know, a return on investment. It really isn't. It's about propelling your career. And that's why again, we focus on festivals a lot and that's why we focus you know, I'm getting you know, good distribution. And good distribution doesn't always make a lot of money either. But you know, but the festival thing really does matter. Because if you get into right festivals, it can really help you. And so we focus a lot on that. Um, so yeah, those two paths are interesting, but if all you want to do is make money, then yes, make a movie like air but or if you make a horror film, because you know, everybody thinks Oh, I'll just make a horror film. I'll make a lot of money. But that's not true. Because because there's a glut of horror films, but there's not a glut of air button movies. Yeah. Yeah, you have to make an either elevated horror film, or you have to give us something we just haven't seen before.

Alex Ferrari 38:29
Can you give us an example of an elevated horror film for the audience?

Sebastian Twardosz 38:32
Well I mean people will say you know saw the original saw was a Sundance movie by the way it was in Sundance

Alex Ferrari 38:40
Midnight Yeah, yeah. Blair Witch Right,

Sebastian Twardosz 38:43
Right. Blair Witch as well right? I don't know that I would call Blair Witch elevated Blair Witch was just new at the time because of the way

Alex Ferrari 38:53
It was an anomaly basically created a genre created genre.

Sebastian Twardosz 38:57
Yeah, because look, here's why you know, it's an anomaly because look at what the guys who made it have gone on to do which there hasn't been anything really major whereas the song guys Oh, yeah, careers have taken off so they were not an anomaly. They know. They've it's legal now and James one they've they've both like, done it more than once now. I mean, look at their credits. So that's how you know they're not one hit wonders, they, they know what they're doing. Yeah, but that I guess you can call an elevated just means that let me just put, this is how I phrase it. If you're going to make a horror film, just make sure this is the film. If you're only going to make one film and your entire life. You get one shot. Put as much effort, you know, into that horror film, and pretend it's the only film you'll ever ever make because actually chances are might be actually the only film you ever make. But as much effort and time into that as you would like if you were writing. I don't know Dead Poets Society or Amadeus or, or you know, Shakespeare in Love or it Any you know The Revenant? What at what? What whatever movie you think is an awesome movie that won an Oscar, you know the Birdman or what have you put as much effort into your horror movie as you would into that. And that will probably make it better. And that includes with the script, by the way, because it all does start with the script. So yeah, that's my long winded answer to like the the two paths to take

Alex Ferrari 40:24
Now with with that, which is something I kind of talked about a little bit as well is, you know, finding your voice and finding your point of view, like you pointed out, can you go a little bit more into dealing like the voice of a screenwriter and too many ways of voice or perspective of a director? Because obviously the strong the people who've all made it in this business, they all have very strong points of view, or very strong voices. I mean, Tarantino's voice is, it's like a bullhorn. You know? And you know, Scorsese, and even Spielberg and Fincher, they all have such a strong, distinct point of view, voice style. Can you talk a little bit about that? Cuz I think a lot of filmmakers that make movies today that just slap stuff together and try to copy somebody else, or have no real point of view that just kind of putting it out there just to say, Hey, I made a movie.

Sebastian Twardosz 41:16
Well, let me give you an example of voice. I'm actually because I'm, I start my one class at USC tonight, so I happen to have my syllabus, everything from I'm gonna give you an example. I will attribute this to a friend, a good friend of mine, his name is Alex liftback. And he's a screenwriter. You can look him up, he's made some rent some good movies. He's also an executive at 20th Century Fox. He's a great guy, but he said this was one of my classes. I wrote it down because I liked it so much. So here's an exact example of it. And then now we can talk about it. It'd be short. So here's here's a very good well written piece of screenplay which I'll read to you in a second. There's nothing wrong with it's well written, but it doesn't have voice and now read to you the version that that's so here we go. Ready? interior Jack's apartment night. jack is asleep on this couch. There's a knock on his front door. He stirs awake as Jane enters. Perfectly competent, well written. Sure. Fine. But it lacks voice. So here's voice ready. Interior Jack's apartment night. What a shithole. That's actually a compliment. Jack's asleep on his couch. There's a knock in his front door, he stirs awake, Jane enters, she can stop traffic, air traffic.

Alex Ferrari 42:36
Ohh Jesus.

Sebastian Twardosz 42:38
The difference ultimately, the differences, yes, it has taught first there's tone, there's attitude and the writing. But if you if you if you're listening to it, it's visual. You know, like he says, what a shithole instantly in your mind, you're thinking okay, he's got you know, it's apartments a show, you can picture. You know, Jane and her, they don't describe Jane, they just say she can stop traffic, air traffic. And in your mind, you whatever you, the reader, or listener thinks is the hottest woman that could walk in the room will come up in your mind. It's visual. So voice is as a couple things, as a writer, and then as a director is slightly different. But because obviously you can do your your visuals, but as a writer, it's, it's about it's about tone, and feeling you and the ability to make somebody picture something in their mind. But it's also the ability to make somebody feel ultimately your voices can you this is this entire business ultimately is can you make either the real reader feel something, or the viewer in a movie theater feel something, it's all about feelings? Really, that's all it is. And people who have a voice are a master of getting the reader to feel something. But one way of doing that is obviously getting them the picture. So you know, that that has a lot to do with voice. The other thing is don't self censor, that ultimately are no rules. Yes, you have to know how to write a good screenplay. So read a lot and I mean a lot of screenplays, but really there are no rules. So you don't have to necessarily be grammatically correct. You can say anything, never self censored. I always say in class, I mean, I mean, look at bridesmaids, you've got a you've got you know, you know you've got a fat chick taking a dump in a sink. In the I mean, okay, there's nothing, anyone, nothing you can write, the people in Hollywood will get offended by or whatever. It's like, if it's if you want to be funny than be funny. If you want to be serious, to be serious, but never self censor. And, you know, take risks, and just, you kind of want to be yourself. Be yourself in your writing. Then that's, that's what you want to be

Alex Ferrari 45:00
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. And it's I think, is a general thing as an artist, any artist anywhere in any any form is about being yourself. And also the confidence that the confidence is so good when you when like that second piece that you wrote, it took a lot more balls to write that kind of way than it did the first time. And you can call it voice, but it's also confidence because you know what a shithole? A lot of people like I'm not going to curse in a script, what am I going to, but that's not the proper way. I haven't read it like that. But you see, you already said that little voice craps into your head, but there's that then you got that guy who's just really confident just like boom, what a shithole what, or this or that. And that's that. And that's what people I think, in a lot of ways really are attracted to,

Sebastian Twardosz 45:54
I actually talk about confidence in class. So you totally nailed it. There's another word for it too, though. Confidence is the right word. But it's also it's called being in control of your story. The, it's like when you're giving a pitch to somebody, or when you're talking to somebody about what you want to make, they have to have a sense that you are in control of your story. And being in control of it means you are confident. And yes, because it's like dating, I mean, there's always analogies to dating. Yes. If you can be confident that's not cocky per se, but confident that that shows strength, and it shows that you really know your characters, you really you control the scene. And that's also what I mean by don't don't self censor, don't.

Alex Ferrari 46:40
Yeah, I know, a lot of a lot of young writers and a lot of filmmakers will censor themselves before they ever come out the gate. And I'm like, Look, other people are going to try to censor you. Why are you going to try to censor yourself before you come out the gate?

Sebastian Twardosz 46:50
Let other people do that. Because that's what happens, you know, good scripts, watered down. You know, by the way, one of the best scripts I ever read a long time ago. And anybody in the business back then will tell you this was in the mid 90s, again, was a script called East Grand Rapids. Hi, do you know what that will have never know which one was at East Grand Rapids high was I still have a draft of that, by the way.

Alex Ferrari 47:10
Oh, it's American Pie.

Sebastian Twardosz 47:11
It's American Pie.

Alex Ferrari 47:12
It's American Pie. I thought so. Yeah.

Sebastian Twardosz 47:14
Well, we read that because I was a creative executive at the time. People in the business was passing that script around. Like it was like it was butter, like it was chocolate got sold for a record amount. I remember cuz, see, everyone sees that movie, in the sense of having seen the movie, right? And it seemed the sequence which obviously aren't as good, but when you read that fresh, and there was no movies or nothing to look at, it was incredibly well written. well written and not censored, believe me at all. And it was hilarious. And you know, it just it kept hitting a nerve. I'm like, Oh, yeah, I did that. Or Yeah, that's funny. That happened to me, or somebody I knew bla bla bla, and it was not sent self censored. So I'm just, you know, go for it.

Alex Ferrari 48:02
Right. I mean, there was that movie, which I heard the script was made. I read the script. It was amazing. And it was much different than the movie was last Boy Scout. Shane Black script. Yeah. Original I was it sold for like 3.5 million back in the day or something like that. Yeah. And it was remarkable. And they changed the you know, they changed the daymond Wayne character from a wisecracking black guy to from a surfer dude, if I remember correctly in the original script, or something like that. It's stuff like that happens all the time, but at least shamed and watered down his version. He just Yeah,

Sebastian Twardosz 48:36
I don't know. I don't think Yeah, he's another one of these guys. Like if you read his scripts, it's it's awesome. By the way, there's a really good article, I think in Hollywood Reporter right now, about Shane Black, and his hay days. And he's, you know, he's coming back and he has a new movie coming out.

Alex Ferrari 48:50
I can't wait to see it, too. It looks amazing.

Sebastian Twardosz 48:52
Yeah. These guys know how to write Oh, yeah, I think there was no holds barred.

Alex Ferrari 48:56
Yeah, no question. So to go back to film festivals real quick, would you suggest that if a film if a filmmaker gets into a let's say Sundance, and they are not on track to get a let's say a distribution deal, like cuz there's I know a lot of Sundance, you know, you know, winners, that never got a deal because of the kind of tone to the movie or something along those lines, would you suggest that they they like maybe do a quick one week self distribution, you know, digital, digital streaming version of him like, Hey, you know, it's only after Sundance special only a week later. You can watch it here because all the attention is going to be on them, they'll probably never get as much attention on the film ever again. So would you leverage that?

Sebastian Twardosz 49:39
I don't know that it works. I'll tell you. Slam dance is doing that now like slam dance, will actually can actually distribute your movie for you because they're trying to make that work. Sundance hasn't quite done that yet. Tribeca is doing it, you know, because Tribeca films also distributes a little bit. It's interesting, it The real problem is that there are It's an ocean of movies now. It's all about marketing really it's about getting people's attention so I don't know that doing it on your own works I have to tell you I have never seen it I've only seen it work in very specific forms I'll tell you what they are because I have my in it's it's just it doesn't seem to work with narrative films at all it kind of works with in the non narrative space. Like there was there was a movie about like the education system that's making a fortune. Right now that's all self distributed.

Alex Ferrari 50:38
Yeah, Doc Doc's do very well with that model. I've seen many Doc's do extremely well,

Sebastian Twardosz 50:42
yeah, yeah, they seem to do better, but narratives. Not so much. I'm actually trying to find the name of the slipping my mind,

Alex Ferrari 50:50
What I mean. And from my experience, there have been films, the independent films that have done well, it's self distributed, but again, their budget levels have to be extremely low, the the audience,

Sebastian Twardosz 51:02
Remember any of them cuz I

Alex Ferrari 51:04
Camp Dakota, I remember was one that they did. That was a bunch of YouTube stars put together but they had a huge audience. So they saw they had the marketing because of the YouTubes. But that's my point. Like, there is a way to do it, but it takes a lot of work. And you've got to build up an audience and you've got to be able to leverage people's audiences to be able to sell them and so on. So if again, it depends on the budget. And if you if you make that movie for 5 million bucks, it's not gonna make money. But if you made that movie for, let's say, 100 grand, and they have 5 million followers, or the group of them have 15 million followers, you know, chances are you're going to be able to make your money back between that and

Sebastian Twardosz 51:42
By the way, I believe that's true. Although I also know the opposite. I do know some other YouTubers who have tried it, they have their very highly ranked channel in the comedy space. And they made their first feature and they got no traction. They even told me it's different. It's so interesting, because I asked him the same time like you guys have you know, 5 million people right? A lot of followers right and a lot of hits and they have some very successful YouTube series literally if I set it right now some of your mailing address right would know it i'm sure and I asked them well why they said to me Look, we even tried to fight you know, they we tried to crowdfund the movie that was one of their things but they had so many followers and it failed they didn't get that much money and they said look the peep the audience wants you know a certain thing they want their the the YouTube series you know that they've been producing they'll watch that but when it comes to because that's all free mind you but when it comes to pay putting extra money down into a crowdfunding campaign it the turnover from like fans to like oh contributors was shockingly low

Alex Ferrari 53:01
Well no the the I

Sebastian Twardosz 53:03
And the same with getting district it took them I would say a year and a half to finally get distributed and honestly I don't know that that the movie was profitable

Alex Ferrari 53:14
Well what's what's interesting is I actually had a I was talking to the head of seed and spark which is a crowdfunding website Emily and she was telling me I'm like what's the most successful when you guys have had and they said well it was this web series and they were able to generate like 100 $150,000 crowdfunding So it all depends a case by case basis it all depends on the audience yeah because if you're into like slapstick haha videos and you might have 5 million people who just like enjoy that but they're not really into that you know they're not going to put out but if you have a put out cash on a crowdfunding thing or or support your feature but there's just all depends on the personality it depends on the channel depends on the the celebrity the YouTube celebrity to you know what kind of content that is so it can be done but it is very strategic thing to do and it takes time to build up even once you have it.

Sebastian Twardosz 54:04
Right and I don't know well here's the thing The bottom line is I don't know that there is a path that if you do ABC Yeah, all the way to z that you will get the result I think it's more about that there is luck as part of it right place right time right movie, right? You know, you cannot believe me if anyone has tried to control their career in this business, you know, their path, it was me, believe me, you know, and I couldn't do it. And I know lots of people you know, it's just certain opportunities come up. Same thing with films so um, I don't think you can ever mirror anyone else's success. It's it is tough. You do have to there is like there's a direction like, you know, you have to go west. Okay. West. There's lots of different paths to go west. And yes, some people go, you know, through more, you know, Warren path, but that doesn't, you know, but there's also You know, a lot of people, it's a worn path. So predators and bad guys know people are going down that path, you might get hit on that path, you know, as a bad analogy.

Alex Ferrari 55:08
No, no, it's a good analogy. Actually, I completely understand what you're saying. Yeah, absolutely.

Sebastian Twardosz 55:12
So So it's, it's, it's, you know, you can only do what you can do, and you have to hope that you're meeting the right people along the way. And it's never the same right people every single time, but you can, you can, you know, educate yourself to the best that you can embark on it, know what you're getting into, be realistic, you know, and, and if you succeed at the end, great, try and help other people. If you don't succeed, well, you know, it's kind of like when you get knocked down, get, get back up and do it again.

Alex Ferrari 55:47
I didn't mean the, I think the best advice I've ever heard was just do the best work you can at all times. And you really won't know what because you'll plan some things out. But like anything in life, plans go out the window, and you'll meet this one person and this one person knows this other person and, and then all of a sudden, they're like, oh, I've met you at a Starbucks and oh, well, let's, you know, go let's go have the drinks. And all of a sudden, oh, hey, I love your movie. Let me give it over to my friend and who's my friend, I just happen to know, Will Smith I went to school with Well, you know what I mean? And then all of a sudden, things like that happen. It happens all the time. Yes. But you just have to put yourself in a position to be at the right place at the right time with the right project, movie idea, things like that. And I always tell people, you know, the very famous legendary mythical story of Robert Rodriguez. With a mariachi, it's, he was at the right place at the right time with the right movie. And if he shows up today, I'm not sure if he gets the action.

Sebastian Twardosz 56:46
It's right, you just have to you have to have your at bats, you just have to get out there and produce whatever it is you're producing. Like, I'm a big believer, and I think about this all the time. Because, you know, because I do all kinds of things in the business. And I haven't done all the things I've wanted to do. And I'm still very hungry for doing some of those things. But you just, you know, it's, it's about ultimately, to me, what I value the most is creators. Mm hmm. You know, so whatever it is, but you are creating something, whether it's a book, a YouTube series, a feature, or whatever you've created, it is a big deal. Yes, eventually, you could go on and make, you know, Civil War, which we were suppose are doing, but they've already announced their next film. And it's an original film that they want to do. Because they're that that's always for two filmmakers. That's always going to be there. Yes, you'll go and make the big movies because it's fun. And part of this has to be fun. But ultimately, you want to create something new that you know, because really civil, it's Stan Lee, right? It all just goes back to Stan Lee, he's the Creator. So you know, you you just, that's what I value is the people who can just create something from nothing, and put something out there for other people to enjoy. And that again, that goes back to distribution for indie films, ultimately, because you there is no one that can guarantee you will profit because look different people make a movie a different way. Like Alex, you know, you're embarking on a movie. Yes. And you know, I might embark let's say in exactly the same movie, I bet you can make that movie cheaper and better than I could the same movie because you know, all the technical stuff a lot better than I do. You know, and I think you know, the ins and outs of that better so you're going to make we can make exactly the same movie. I bet you could bring it in, let's say you know, whatever, you know, you can bring it in for a million dollars, I bring in exactly the same movie for $2 million. Right? So obviously you're gonna have a profit before I will with the exact same movie. But that happens all the time with indie films so so you know, it's not about profitability. It's about making the best movie you can make getting it into the best festivals getting people to see it to propel your career that's really what it is. If you want to just make money okay, well then go make air but you know make a lots of air buds Yeah, yeah, make everybody go go make which is completely fine movie. I actually can't you know, I have kids, I wouldn't mind making one really, really good Air Bud movie for them to enjoy. But, but you know, you're just going to be making those kinds of movies or if you just want to make b b thrillers, you can make money with B thrillers, you know, you can do that, um, but that won't necessarily elevate your career or get you an Oscar or get you, you know, you know, like the Russo brothers, you know, into the stratosphere of a career.

Alex Ferrari 59:33
Right! Exactly, exactly. Now, with that said, What do you think in your opinion has changed the most in the film distribution landscape and what stays the same? Because a lot of things have changed over the overall

Sebastian Twardosz 59:45
What's the biggest change was fine because a lot of things have actually changed the same to really the biggest changes this there's just more and more and more movies. There. You know, it's like there used to be, you know, 10s of 1000s of screenplays every year to two You know, to get through now there's 10s of 1000s of movies just right. There's so many movies. So that's, that's what's changed. What hasn't changed is I think actually distribution hasn't really changed that much. It's all the pipes are still, you know, yes, we now have the internet and all that stuff. But as you I'm sure well know Alex, you know those pipes the internet pipes are controlled by the major media companies they just are. You know what, people now instead of like, you know, when I was young we only had three channels. Okay, well, we have more channels now but really everyone's still want only watching like Netflix or HBO or whatever, still basically watching a smallish number of channels because there's only so many hours in the day, right? So you know, and that those pipes are there. I don't know what the right word is. I'm searching for the right word. But those pipes are monetized and controlled by corporations. And then DIY to my knowledge has not worked because I can't think of one that has. The only exception being that one Judd Apatow one that he produced.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:12
On a Louie ck Lucy Kay put out his stand up. concert ck is famous already. Right? That's my point, like but but for someone like him who has that audience, he's able to monetize it fairly easily. And there's been a lot of guys who've done that on the comedic on the comedy side, because they were like, Well, wait a minute, why do I have to go through Comedy Central, I could just put it out on myself. And I control everything.

Sebastian Twardosz 1:01:35
But you have to get to that level, like most of us, not at that level

Alex Ferrari 1:01:38
Right! Right?

Sebastian Twardosz 1:01:39
So that's the thing. I'm, you know, we're really dependent on festivals, to indie filmmakers, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:01:47
It's very again, and the festival or the festival to my pitch from in my opinion is only there not only to propel and to showcase filmmakers, but in the right festival, all the eyes of the industry are on that festival. So that's why the festivals matter is because

Sebastian Twardosz 1:02:01
Yeah, it's discovering new talent.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:02
Right! Right!

Sebastian Twardosz 1:02:03
Oh, point. That's why I put so much emphasis into helping people get into, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:02:07
One of the things for us, right, exactly. And that's, that's always the key with with, it's just getting eyeballs on your movie. And festivals are still a very, very big part of that. And if you can find other ways of getting eyes on movies, whether that be putting it on, like you know a lot of guys, right, you know, do direct a short, that's a killer short, and they put up online and it goes viral. And all of a sudden, some executives are seeing it like, Hey, you come over here and direct who's the guy?

Sebastian Twardosz 1:02:31
Yeah, you don't even have to make a feature. And I that's one of the things I'm gonna be talking about in class. A couple weeks, you know, I don't really know why make a feature, if you can make an incredibly good short, and do achieve the same results as a feature.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:47
Depends, again, it all depends on it's all case by case.

Sebastian Twardosz 1:02:50
Yes, it is case by case, I completely agree. But I'm just saying that if if what people are thinking I have to make a feature to prove that I can make a feature, that's just not true. I'll give an example right now. Wes ball who directed Maze Runner, you know, here's a special effects guy, he made a short film called ruin. That's what got him the directing job. And I can think of other people, you know, I did a whole interview with Luke Greenfield who directs comedies on the insiders. And he, he made one of the best shorts ever, no visual effects. just freaking great. I think you can find it on YouTube, I have the link to it. But just look it up. It's called the right hook. And just Google that, and maybe Luke's named Luke Greenfield, and hopefully it come up. And that's the movie is a short film that got him his first feature. And so you know, and that movies really good. You'll see, like, holy cow, is this great movie. And it's like, you know, sometimes I look at, like, when you make a feature, you're just giving yourself more time, more time to stumble and fail. Really good short film for 10 minutes. It's kind of controlled and contained environment, as opposed to 110 minutes. You know,

Alex Ferrari 1:04:01
There's I mean, there's a lot of different opinions of that. I mean, I know a lot of guys, I've you know, I've done some I've done some shorts that have done obscene amounts of business and a lot of attention and all that kind of stuff years ago. And then then I kept getting Well, you know, can you do it each? Can you direct a feature, we have to see you do a feature? And then vice versa? You know, like, I don't know, there's just so many different,

Sebastian Twardosz 1:04:23
Right! And that's where agents and managers come in. Yes, absolutely. Her team. That's like I said, you know, we're all going west high. There's a lot of different ways to get there. And we all want to get to Hollywood, right? Right. We know the endpoint. There's a lot of ways to get to Hollywood.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:41
No, there's no no question about it. Now I'll ask you one last question before I ask you my standard three last questions.

Sebastian Twardosz 1:04:48
Okay, good cuz I because I my pain medications wearing off. Okay. I was in a very bad accident this weekend. Oh, er, so I'm actually on pain medication. Okay, I feel wearing off.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:58
Alright, so I'll hurry then. What would you say to someone who loves movies and just wants to get into the business and make a living in the business? Like someone just fresh green right off the boat?

Sebastian Twardosz 1:05:10
Well, I strongly believe you have to come to Los Angeles, I believe that you have to make a lot of friends. And I believe you should help your friends. I'll just leave it at that. I mean, I could tell you the actual steps and things you should do. But it comes down to that.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:30
Those are the core those are the core things you need to do. Yeah. And when Yeah, because those friends are the ones are going to help you get your projects may get you connected to other people and you help you they help jobs, everything, everything, the whole ball of wax, and that gets you started. Alright, so what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn whether in the film business or in life?

Sebastian Twardosz 1:05:49
Grass is always greener, or seems to be, um, you look at other people and their careers or their success or whatever in life or whatever it is. Don't worry about what other people are doing. Just worry about what you're doing.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:05
Great advice. What are your three favorite films of all time? no particular order?

Sebastian Twardosz 1:06:11
Well, my favorite film of all time is at Okay, I really have one that then i would say i don't i don't put them in any order. I only have one favorite film. That's that and now I would say you know, you know it's my generation. So you know, I love Star Wars. Sure. I love you know Dead Poets Society. Toy Story, Forrest Gump. You know Raiders of Lost Ark. You know, some movies that people don't talk about much by love, like Amadeus. Love Like, this is also really phenomenal.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:45
Those are all good ones. Those are all good ones.

Sebastian Twardosz 1:06:47
Yeah. And Spielberg Lucas Spielberg generations Meccas? You know, Ready Player One?

Alex Ferrari 1:06:52
Yes. Now what? Where can people find you?

Sebastian Twardosz 1:06:57
Oh, well, I'm easy to find. Well, you can Google my name, which is hard. Sebastian Twardosz. Good luck. But you could just I guess the easiest way is just google Circus Road Films. Okay, because that takes you to our website for our company and my emails right there. Okay. Or, you know, my email is just [email protected] for you Just email Sebastian. I actually have a website Yeah, just www.SebastianTwardosz.com.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:26
I'll put that in the show. I'll put that in the show notes. And nobody needs to figure out how to spell your last name.

Sebastian Twardosz 1:07:30
Yeah. But the websites good because it has some links to all my shows. on there. Links to my classes link to my Facebook. I have a really good Facebook page. Actually, this would be great. I think it's good anyway, it's just called the insiders on Facebook. And it's got kind of like a, like a godfather like icon. The hands with the with the cross. Anyway, yeah, I'm pretty easily fundable.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:56
I'll put I'll put all those links in the show notes. Guys. Sebastian, I know you're in pain, man. So thank you so much for doing this interview. Man. I really appreciate it.

Sebastian Twardosz 1:08:04
Thank you. I really enjoyed it a lot. And by the way, your site, and all the things that you do, I think I've been nominal. Thank you, man. I mean, really good. I have to get to know you a little bit better. And I'm gonna invite you to my class that I want you to speak. Oh, thank you so much. Now I know for sure. I just want to kind of wrap my head around, like the right. Right, right place to bring you in at what you're doing is really great. So congrats.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:30
Thanks again, my friend. I appreciate it and feel better.

Sebastian Twardosz 1:08:33
Thank you. Bye!

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